Latest / The Front / Ben Roberts-Smith doubts ‘fair trial’ on war-crimes charges

Transcript

Ben Roberts-Smith doubts ‘fair trial’ on war-crimes charges · The Front

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Today's biggest news from The Australian. I'm Kristen Amiott with
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: the front's afternoon headlines. Ben Robert Smith doesn't know if
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: he'll get a fair trial when he faces court on
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: war crimes charges. The former Special Air Services soldier told
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: 2GB radio presenter Ben Fordham in an hours-long interview his
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: legal team considered applying for a permanent stay of the proceedings,
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: but says he's trusting the jury system to deliver a
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: fair verdict when the matter eventually comes to court.
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: I actually don't know how we find a jury that
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: hasn't already to some degree formed an opinion. It doesn't
• 0:39
  Speaker 2: matter which way. So how do you find people that
• 0:43
  Speaker 2: don't already have a position? And just in that sense alone,
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: can there be a fair trial? I just think having
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: a jury of normal people when they have to listen
• 0:55
  Speaker 2: to all of this, that I'm comfortable with. because I
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: know that we will be able to explain to them
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: the things that they don't understand about the military enough
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: that when they hear the actual evidence, they will understand.
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: So I'm trusting again in the system, but just having
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: 12 normal people gives me hope, mate.
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: Robert Smith served six tours of Afghanistan between 2006 and
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: 2012 and received Australia's highest military decoration for gallantry, the
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: Victoria Cross, in 2011. He's consistently denied any wrongdoing and
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: sued the Sydney Morning Herald and The Age, both newspapers
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: owned by Nine, as well as the Canberra Times for
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: defamation in 2023 over their investigation into allegations he committed
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: war crimes in the Middle East. The federal court found
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: allegations he murdered four unarmed Afghan civilians were substantially true.
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: In early 2025, his appeal against the ruling was unanimously
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: dismissed by the full court of the Federal Court, and
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: in September of last year, the High Court rejected his
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: application for special leave to appeal, meaning Robert Smith has
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: no legal avenues left to overturn the decision. He was
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: ordered to pay the nine newspapers multi-million dollar legal costs.
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: Robert Smith was dramatically arrested by Australian Federal Police officers
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: at Sydney Airport in April of this year, and charged
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: with five counts of war crime murder relating to alleged
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: offences between 2009 and 2012. He was granted conditional bail
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: on April 17 after spending nine nights in Sydney's maximum
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: security Silverwater prison. A date hasn't been set for the trial.
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: In a separate interview, Robert Smith told News.com.au he'd formally
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: indicated he'd come forward voluntarily. but believes his arrest, which
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: happened in front of his wife, children and passengers on
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: a Qantas flight, was orchestrated to advantage prosecutors.
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: I served in WA and then I live in Brisbane.
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: I'm arrested in New South Wales on a six-hour day
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: trip for operational reasons, when the reality of that is
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: it actually provides the CDPP with a material advantage in
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: the criminal proceedings because they are now able to utilise
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: committal hearings... to generate or extract further evidence from people
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: that otherwise didn't want to be involved. And in Queensland,
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: that's not the case. When you're in Queensland, the only
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: person that can call for a committal hearing is the defendant.
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: I 100% believe that's why. Because it's a significant advantage
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: to them.
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: Robert Smith claimed the officers apologised to him for the
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: way the arrest unfolded. He also slammed the joint investigation
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: by the AFP and the Office of the Special Investigator,
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: telling news.com.au the five-year probe was a waste of resources.
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: There is no way in any way, shape or form
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: that I was considered a threat by the AFP. And
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: all those resources continued to be used on me right
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: up until the arrest and still today. I think about
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: that in the context of Bondi, because the first statement
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: out of the AFP was that they're under-resourced in counter-terrorism
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: in New South Wales. And I think, well... Instead of
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: all this surveillance on me, you could have just asked
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: me to come in. I would have talked to you anyway.
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: You could have arrested me. All of the things. It
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: doesn't sit well with me because I look at those
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: people that aren't being surveilled who are a threat to Australia.
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: I just think, why waste the money on me? It's
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: never necessary.
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: The AFP has consistently denied its counter-terrorism division is under-resourced
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: or underfunded, since two gunmen allegedly opened fire on a
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: Hanukkah event at Bondi Beach on December 14, killing 15
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: innocent people. Referring in the interview with Fordham to a
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: retroactive change made by then-Attorney General Mark Dreyfuss in 2024,
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: Robert Smith accused the Albanese Labor government of stacking war
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: crimes legislation against him. The change redefined the point at
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: which a prisoner or detainee ceases to be an active combatant,
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: lowering the threshold from three criteria to one. Robert Smith
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: said the update came amid the prosecution of former commando
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: Oliver Schultz for war crimes offences and when the investigation
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: into Robert Smith was already underway. The government said the
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: changes brought Australia's legislation into line with international law.
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: My concern is that the same person that consented to
• 5:23
  Speaker 2: the charges, wants to make it retrospective and didn't fully
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: explain the material change to the parliament. But by making
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: it retrospective, you've now taken the burden of proof or
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: reduced the burden of proof for the prosecution on a
• 5:40
  Speaker 2: guy that you've already charged. But when he was operating,
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: the rules of engagement that he operated under were informed
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: by a different law. I'm like, well, why did you
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: do that after you've already started prosecuting someone? And there
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: was all these other allegations being investigated. Why are you
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: tipping the scales so much in your favour and making
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: it so hard for us to just have a fair fight?
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: Thousands of people watched the 2GB interview, which was live-streamed
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: on YouTube on Thursday morning. A bug affecting almost two-thirds
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: of the world's websites was detected by artificial intelligence tools,
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: prompting a global scramble to fix vulnerabilities before hackers make
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: their move. The creators of software called PHP flagged a
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: critical security issue on Wednesday night, suggesting bad actors could
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: potentially take control of any system running it. Several Australian
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: government websites were offline on Thursday as administrators scrambled to
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: protect sites and systems. Among them was the threat intelligence
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: advisory channel cyber.gov.au, which earlier posted a message urging website
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: owners to apply updates and patches. Check out those stories
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: live right now at theaustralian.com.au and come back to the
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: front first thing in the morning for our look at
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: the political divide that's pushing romantic relationships to breaking point.
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: That's right here, Friday mornings.