Latest / Two Doting Dads with Matty J & Ash / #172 Sassy Scott On His Rollercoaster 6 Year Surrogacy Journey

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#172 Sassy Scott On His Rollercoaster 6 Year Surrogacy Journey · Two Doting Dads with Matty J & Ash

0:00
Speaker 1: Mister Wicks, mister Johnson, you know you're in for a
0:03
Speaker 1: wild ride when you have white Sassie Scott on the podcast.
0:06
Speaker 2: He's a ball of energy. He's also very funny.
0:10
Speaker 1: Do you know what I like most about him? There's
0:12
Speaker 1: people we see online and then you meet them in
0:15
Speaker 1: person and you think, oh, you're really different to how
0:17
Speaker 1: you were online.
0:19
Speaker 3: He is.
0:21
Speaker 1: What you see on social media is exactly what he's
0:24
Speaker 1: like in person.
0:25
Speaker 2: He's loud, hilarious, but he's also very empathetic man.
0:28
Speaker 1: Isn't he. Yes, yeah, he's got a hard out of shell,
0:31
Speaker 1: but once you break that down, he's all gooey inside.
0:35
Speaker 1: Well said. You may have seen him on social media
0:38
Speaker 1: with his brother Luke. They often go very viral, a
0:42
Speaker 1: bit trump asque, annoy the ship out of each other,
0:50
Speaker 1: to put it simply.
0:51
Speaker 2: But we're not here to talk about comical sibling rivalry,
0:54
Speaker 2: are we, Matt.
0:55
Speaker 3: No.
0:55
Speaker 2: Scott has been on a six year journey to become
0:58
Speaker 2: a father with his husband Market. This has quite literally
1:01
Speaker 2: taken them on a roller coaster of emotion.
1:03
Speaker 1: Yes, Scott mark is. They decided to take the surrogacy route,
1:06
Speaker 1: which meant a great deal of time and money in
1:10
Speaker 1: pursuit of one goal to become parents.
1:12
Speaker 2: Thankfully they got their wish, but it was by no
1:15
Speaker 2: means easy.
1:15
Speaker 1: Let's get into it. Welcome back to three doting dads.
1:34
Speaker 1: I am Maddie Jay, I'm Ash and I'm Sassy Scott.
1:36
Speaker 1: And this is a podcast all about parenting. It is
1:39
Speaker 1: the good, it is the bad and the relatable. And
1:41
Speaker 1: if you come for advice.
1:42
Speaker 3: Yes you remember, we don't do it.
1:44
Speaker 1: We don't do it. Do you know what? I got
1:46
Speaker 1: distracted by the house here where Okay, we're not in
1:50
Speaker 1: our normal recording studio and the acoustics a great. We're
1:53
Speaker 1: in the snow in East Genderbne and the house is creaking.
1:57
Speaker 4: I have no idea where we are.
1:58
Speaker 3: I have to look at a map before Google Maps.
2:00
Speaker 4: There's no shame in the world. I have no idea.
2:03
Speaker 1: How did you get from Canberra to here?
2:05
Speaker 4: God? Driven?
2:06
Speaker 3: Hell, you got driven? Last night? I did the first hour.
2:15
Speaker 1: I was like I needed a little story and I
2:17
Speaker 1: was like yeah, cool, And then isn't it weird? Were
2:20
Speaker 1: like I was like, shut the fuck up.
2:23
Speaker 3: I talked to pass the time.
2:24
Speaker 2: I just need to I just need to continue to
2:26
Speaker 2: talk all the time.
2:27
Speaker 3: Or I get bored or destructive? What would you prefer?
2:31
Speaker 1: Sorry, you're right. So this is a fun little situation
2:34
Speaker 1: where we are all on a little trip away thanks
2:37
Speaker 1: to Red Bull. We're at Perisher East Gindy. At the moment,
2:41
Speaker 1: it's is about to say thread both snow, it's all
2:45
Speaker 1: the same. It's all the same.
2:48
Speaker 3: What's that? Thank you?
2:49
Speaker 1: Thank you, thank you? And we actually we've been trying
2:52
Speaker 1: to get you for a little while. Your motherfucker.
2:54
Speaker 5: Yeah again, you have no choice.
2:57
Speaker 3: As soon as Luke was like, hey.
2:58
Speaker 2: Why don't you try to go mon on like, yeah,
3:01
Speaker 2: damning do it.
3:03
Speaker 1: I'm going to watch my clock because we have we
3:05
Speaker 1: have it forty minutes. We have a dinner booking. It's
3:07
Speaker 1: for Italian. The last thing I want to do is
3:09
Speaker 1: hold you back from Italian. What are you ate at Italian?
3:11
Speaker 1: What's your you know what I'm really into. At the moment,
3:14
Speaker 1: people are like, when the are they talking about? Kids? Later?
3:19
Speaker 1: Spaghetti and berry? Oh?
3:21
Speaker 3: What is that?
3:22
Speaker 1: I'm glad you asked. It's like it's bougie. I know
3:25
Speaker 1: I'm not. I'm a man of the people. Anyway, It's
3:28
Speaker 1: a lobster. It's like a seafood lobs yess like a
3:37
Speaker 1: seafood prawn.
3:37
Speaker 3: Okay, yeah, I'm spaghetti bolin AI's with vanilla ice cream
3:41
Speaker 3: afterwards all the time, no matter where I am in
3:43
Speaker 3: the world.
3:43
Speaker 1: What do you what do you mean? Are you twelve? Yes,
3:46
Speaker 1: that's not what my kids.
3:47
Speaker 4: He likes the sweet trees. But getting away from like family,
3:50
Speaker 4: you guys, WO know this.
3:51
Speaker 3: It's like I used to when I traveled for work,
3:54
Speaker 3: even now for work, and people are like, come out
3:57
Speaker 3: after the gig or whatever. I'm like, I've got something
3:59
Speaker 3: really important get to I go back to the hotel room.
4:02
Speaker 3: I just sit in the bed spaghetti boll and as
4:04
Speaker 3: with vanilla ice cream. How long have you been sober
4:06
Speaker 3: for now?
4:08
Speaker 4: I think I'm five years in Teuary.
4:10
Speaker 3: I think last time I asked you that was two
4:12
Speaker 3: years ago. So three yeah, wow, very we usually start
4:17
Speaker 3: this off.
4:18
Speaker 2: We're finding a little bit about you as a child
4:20
Speaker 2: and god, just a quick question.
4:23
Speaker 1: My only picture of Scott is when you had those
4:26
Speaker 1: blonde tips at the front. I don't know how old
4:29
Speaker 1: you were iconic nineteen then, nah, I.
4:35
Speaker 4: Was in no, I was in high school.
4:37
Speaker 3: I was hanging around a lot of dodgy ass guys,
4:42
Speaker 3: really really funny area this question is going to be perfect.
4:44
Speaker 3: Then what's the most trouble you remember getting in as
4:47
Speaker 3: a child. Listen, there's lots anything spring to mind.
4:52
Speaker 4: Yeah, stealing cars? Nice love that, Yes, don't condone it anymore.
5:00
Speaker 3: Just one time stealing. One funny time was when I
5:03
Speaker 3: stole them and Dad's car and then it was a
5:06
Speaker 3: manual and I had my mates in the back and
5:08
Speaker 3: we had to jump start it because the steering wheel locked.
5:12
Speaker 3: I don't know how to unlock it, and it got
5:15
Speaker 3: caught out in the middle of the road. So anyway,
5:17
Speaker 3: we had to push it all the way back down
5:18
Speaker 3: the road. Cops came and got us out of the car.
5:23
Speaker 3: I talked this absolute like smack and got us out
5:26
Speaker 3: of it. I bet you did. I was able to
5:30
Speaker 3: hustle and lie to these cops that my dad actually
5:35
Speaker 3: parked the car. The lights were on out the front,
5:37
Speaker 3: so I tried to move the car for him, and
5:41
Speaker 3: then the steering wheel locked, so I've gone to get
5:43
Speaker 3: the keys.
5:44
Speaker 4: Anyway, I just talked my way through it my Mum
5:46
Speaker 4: and Daddy.
5:46
Speaker 3: I was lying out my ass when the front bought it, Yeah,
5:50
Speaker 3: they bought it.
5:56
Speaker 1: Did you get in trouble at home?
5:57
Speaker 3: Though, Oh yeah, I I pushed the boundaries and mom
6:02
Speaker 3: and dad said this really like, Dad's this crazy thing.
6:04
Speaker 3: In my eighteenth birthday. There's four boys in our family.
6:06
Speaker 3: But at my birthday he said, Scott, we like Trav.
6:10
Speaker 3: He was so good at sport. Because skip Scott, I'll
6:13
Speaker 3: come back to him birthday party and he goes to Patrick.
6:18
Speaker 3: He was just always so like self driven, and you know,
6:21
Speaker 3: he was a like a coordinator supervisor at Woolworth's at
6:25
Speaker 3: the age of fourteen. Looks so studious. Scott.
6:29
Speaker 4: We just let him go and we just had to
6:32
Speaker 4: trust that he would come back.
6:33
Speaker 3: That's Murphy. I prefer that I look at you. But yeah,
6:40
Speaker 3: I cocked her from mom and Dad. I kind of
6:42
Speaker 3: I pushed back pretty hard.
6:43
Speaker 1: I was a rebel. That's good. I can't say I'm
6:45
Speaker 1: that surprised. I'm not surprised I did that. Yeah, I'm
6:51
Speaker 1: going to jump right ahead now to Marcus. Yes, where
6:54
Speaker 1: did you guys meet Grinder?
6:56
Speaker 3: Get out?
6:57
Speaker 4: No, we're a real true love Grinder.
7:00
Speaker 1: I never reached out. I mean, like, hey, you can
7:02
Speaker 1: be up posted.
7:02
Speaker 3: You know what they should if you're listening, Grinder, be honest.
7:08
Speaker 1: Was it meant for a hookup or was it something more? So?
7:11
Speaker 3: This is this to me is profound. My therapist said
7:16
Speaker 3: to me, the next guy you hook up with on Grinder,
7:19
Speaker 3: how about no sex to the fifth date? And I
7:21
Speaker 3: was like, well, it doesn't make sense right, and she
7:27
Speaker 3: was like, I feel like, you know, when you're hooking
7:29
Speaker 3: up with somebody and you shagging him a one night stand,
7:32
Speaker 3: you've kind of gone to Mecca, like you've gotten everything
7:35
Speaker 3: from the person. How do you come back from that
7:37
Speaker 3: to figure out whether you like them as an actual
7:39
Speaker 3: person after you've had all of them? She said, So
7:42
Speaker 3: why don't you do it? I was like, all right, good,
7:44
Speaker 3: I'll give this thing a shot. Sure enough. Marcus and
7:48
Speaker 3: I like we match right on Grinder and he had
7:51
Speaker 3: this sassin ability to like match my energy. Usually I
7:57
Speaker 3: choose someone up and spin out quick, smart by our arms,
7:59
Speaker 3: go around there and get this.
8:02
Speaker 4: But he had this ability to just keep.
8:07
Speaker 3: Going toe to toe with me, and I was like fascinate.
8:11
Speaker 3: And then so I brought up this idea. I was like,
8:13
Speaker 3: heyd like listen, no sex to the fifth date, Like
8:17
Speaker 3: are you in this? And he was like absolutely, So
8:20
Speaker 3: He's like damn it. Well, under date one, I was like,
8:24
Speaker 3: I'm not into this guy. I'm going to shag him.
8:26
Speaker 3: I'm going to break the rules and I'm going.
8:27
Speaker 1: To say see later.
8:28
Speaker 3: And I went back to his place after date one
8:30
Speaker 3: and tried it on him and he was like, no,
8:32
Speaker 3: I remember the rules. And I was like, oh god, dabrac,
8:35
Speaker 3: I stock out and do four more dates. By the
8:37
Speaker 3: fifth date, I went, he did something for me, and
8:40
Speaker 3: I went, Wow, this is this is a guy I love.
8:42
Speaker 1: Wow.
8:43
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's such a cool story. My assistant met on
8:45
Speaker 3: Tinder her husband and I love that story.
8:48
Speaker 1: And she fucked him on the first date. It still
8:53
Speaker 1: worked out, though, but it has yet. Modern dating has
8:56
Speaker 1: kind of like flipped You're it's very broken.
8:58
Speaker 3: I think, Yeah, I don't know how you really get
9:01
Speaker 3: to read a person anymore. Yeah, yeah, right, Like I'm
9:05
Speaker 3: big on energy and you can suss a motherfucker out
9:08
Speaker 3: really quick.
9:09
Speaker 1: Smart.
9:09
Speaker 3: It's hard to do that just in in a world
9:12
Speaker 3: now that is like, you know, receiving information in the
9:18
Speaker 3: first three seconds, you don't like what you see or hear.
9:20
Speaker 4: In three seconds, you're onto the next you're giving.
9:23
Speaker 1: Someone a turn. We really know.
9:27
Speaker 3: Wife for fifteen years?
9:30
Speaker 1: Really, where was it then? How long until you guys
9:34
Speaker 1: talked about the potential to start a family.
9:37
Speaker 3: I think we were listen. It would have been a
9:41
Speaker 3: couple of years. In so many gay men, it was
9:47
Speaker 3: only it was a dream, but not a tangible dream.
9:51
Speaker 1: It was a fantasy.
9:52
Speaker 3: So you would you would lay there and you would
9:54
Speaker 3: talk about, imagine if you could could have a family,
9:57
Speaker 3: and you know, you have mates that have kids, or
9:59
Speaker 3: you have many members. I have kids, but it never
10:02
Speaker 3: ever ever felt like you would really be able to
10:04
Speaker 3: have it. So you're only fantasized about one day being dad.
10:07
Speaker 1: Did you know at that point when you were fantasizing,
10:09
Speaker 1: did you know of any same sex couples who had
10:12
Speaker 1: children as your benchmark?
10:14
Speaker 3: There was one. There was one gay couple who I
10:19
Speaker 3: had heard of and seen and I reached out to them.
10:22
Speaker 3: This was years later down the track when Marcus and
10:25
Speaker 3: I thought, let's just like try this surrogacy thing, and
10:29
Speaker 3: you know, I said to them, hey, where should we start?
10:30
Speaker 3: Have you got any advice? And they said to me,
10:33
Speaker 3: every journey's different. Good luck, that's it, Like it's a secret.
10:36
Speaker 1: Yeah.
10:38
Speaker 3: It was more just Marcus and I are big believers,
10:42
Speaker 3: and you can't be where you can't see and paying
10:44
Speaker 3: it forward. Yeah, and that was really disheartening to us.
10:48
Speaker 3: And so on the flip side, we've promised ourselves through
10:50
Speaker 3: our journey that we were going to make sure that
10:52
Speaker 3: everyone anyone that asked where to start or a question
10:56
Speaker 3: would always give them the time because of broke us
10:58
Speaker 3: when they worked.
11:00
Speaker 1: Wow, So what when you guys are trying to figure
11:03
Speaker 1: out if the fantasy could be real? Like are you
11:07
Speaker 1: just googling? What are your steps?
11:10
Speaker 4: You heard about it happening in America?
11:13
Speaker 3: Aren't like the Motherland like they were like, which is
11:16
Speaker 3: really fascinating because America is conservative in a lot of ways,
11:20
Speaker 3: but then they're like the founding fathers of surregacy, and
11:24
Speaker 3: you know, you look at places like California, it's like
11:27
Speaker 3: it was a no brainer. Like if you when you
11:30
Speaker 3: spoke to people or saw people on television and it
11:34
Speaker 3: was like the.
11:35
Speaker 1: Bible belt and then you've got yea.
11:37
Speaker 5: Fascinating It's always very fascinating, fascinating because our sons were
11:41
Speaker 5: born in Texas to like halfway through the contract, they
11:46
Speaker 5: brought in the no abortion law.
11:48
Speaker 3: So it was like really really like lots of changes
11:52
Speaker 3: we were going after we fantasize about being dads. We
11:55
Speaker 3: then went, I, hang on, you could possibly look at
11:57
Speaker 3: doing here in Australia. But if you do it, it's
11:59
Speaker 3: ultraary stick, which means there's no contract, there's no nothing
12:04
Speaker 3: that binds it. The surrogate would always be looked at
12:07
Speaker 3: as the biological mother. Can they change their mind along
12:10
Speaker 3: the way? Is that?
12:10
Speaker 1: What is that?
12:11
Speaker 3: There's no binding so they can change their mind?
12:13
Speaker 1: Correct? Fuck? Okay?
12:16
Speaker 3: Right, And that just didn't seem like something Marcus and
12:18
Speaker 3: I wanted. And we and I say this from a
12:20
Speaker 3: place of absolute privilege, we were able to go that's
12:24
Speaker 3: not for us. There's other routes, right, And one of
12:27
Speaker 3: the routes we had heard of was that to go
12:30
Speaker 3: dads could have twin children and one would be biologically
12:34
Speaker 3: one dad's one would be biologically the others, but they
12:37
Speaker 3: would share the same met donor Wow. And when I
12:39
Speaker 3: heard it, I was like, this is black market Chinese shit.
12:42
Speaker 2: Science is fucking crazy, to be honest, Like why I thought.
12:47
Speaker 3: It was like under the table, like this is like
12:50
Speaker 3: you don't say anything and we can make it happen. Yeah,
12:52
Speaker 3: And we go to this surrogacy conference and they're in
12:55
Speaker 3: the States in Australia, but there were Americans and people
13:00
Speaker 3: from Georgia that came out. Ukraine was really big at
13:02
Speaker 3: that stage. It kind of moves around the world like
13:06
Speaker 3: where like surrogacy is like movement less.
13:10
Speaker 4: But then there's some that's shut down.
13:12
Speaker 3: You hear of terrible stories like in Thailand Baby Gammy,
13:15
Speaker 3: which was a very famous case where an Australian couple
13:20
Speaker 3: did surrogacy over there. They had twins. One was born
13:23
Speaker 3: with severe down syndrome. They only took one twin home
13:27
Speaker 3: with them and left one behind. Oh my god, wow,
13:30
Speaker 3: And the surrogate isn't that's not what they signed up
13:32
Speaker 3: or they signed up to cook the buttons and then
13:34
Speaker 3: give you the bread, right, but not keep it. And
13:37
Speaker 3: so this poor you know woman then had to become
13:39
Speaker 3: a mother when she didn't actually want to be to
13:41
Speaker 3: a child that had to be you know, disabilities, oh man.
13:45
Speaker 3: And so then countries and where it wasn't really regulated
13:47
Speaker 3: would step in and go no more of this happening,
13:49
Speaker 3: you know, Western people or like taking advantage of some
13:53
Speaker 3: of our people.
13:54
Speaker 1: And at this point, obviously you're kind of like working through,
13:59
Speaker 1: you know, what was possible and how it's going to happen.
14:01
Speaker 1: Are you you and Markus going we definitely want kids
14:05
Speaker 1: or are you still kind of going wesh, just see
14:07
Speaker 1: if it's possible.
14:07
Speaker 3: First we went to this conference and walked down and went, Okay,
14:10
Speaker 3: we're going.
14:10
Speaker 1: To be dads.
14:12
Speaker 3: It was it was the first time ever we felt
14:16
Speaker 3: seen and heard and there was tangible and it could happen.
14:20
Speaker 3: We realized that it was an industry and a global one,
14:24
Speaker 3: and that also we thought we were going to walk
14:27
Speaker 3: in there and it was just going to be for
14:29
Speaker 3: gay guys, right. Rich gay guys were like, I'm gonna
14:31
Speaker 3: we're going to become dads now. But one beautiful thing
14:34
Speaker 3: we found during our journey was people that really want
14:38
Speaker 3: to be parents that can't be or can't conceive naturally
14:41
Speaker 3: doesn't discriminate. There was you know, girls that had had
14:45
Speaker 3: you know, like cysts on their ovarias once when I
14:47
Speaker 3: was sixteen.
14:48
Speaker 1: They couldn't four preak.
14:49
Speaker 3: So we found ourselves in a room of not people people,
14:54
Speaker 3: but so many different people that all just wanted to
14:56
Speaker 3: become parents. And there were so many different avenues we
14:59
Speaker 3: could all take to become a mama or a dad
15:02
Speaker 3: or a parent. So you come out, you come out
15:03
Speaker 3: of this conference.
15:04
Speaker 2: You've got this feeling of elation that you've decided that
15:07
Speaker 2: we want to be dads, which is a huge decision,
15:09
Speaker 2: and every dada, every parent, when they go through that,
15:12
Speaker 2: it's a tingly weird feeling. What's your next step? There
15:16
Speaker 2: you go, We're going to do this, We're doing it,
15:18
Speaker 2: we want to do it. I can't wait what happens next.
15:22
Speaker 3: We find ourself a fertility clinic in the States, find
15:27
Speaker 3: ourself a fertility clinic here in Australia that can help
15:30
Speaker 3: facilitate getting.
15:31
Speaker 1: Our sperm over to the States.
15:34
Speaker 3: We find an egg donor agency, we find a surrogacy agency,
15:40
Speaker 3: and then a whole lot of lawyers Jesus, a lot.
15:42
Speaker 1: Of moving pieces and a lot of stakeholders. I just
15:45
Speaker 1: had sex with my wife and a couple of times,
15:49
Speaker 1: do you know what, Mark, because that I tried the
15:50
Speaker 1: bottle of red wine and throwing the leg over many as.
15:56
Speaker 3: Stop drinking.
16:00
Speaker 1: Unfair, isn't it?
16:01
Speaker 3: Do you know what? It's not? And I appreciate you
16:05
Speaker 3: saying it, but it's not. It's just our reality, right,
16:09
Speaker 3: And and we never once in it played a victim,
16:12
Speaker 3: and we didn't want to. We actually still even find
16:15
Speaker 3: now and it makes me emotional that we got what
16:18
Speaker 3: we really wanted right, and there's so many people still
16:21
Speaker 3: that haven't take card.
16:23
Speaker 1: You got your fantasy.
16:24
Speaker 3: We we we are privileged because we're able to create
16:26
Speaker 3: a family.
16:27
Speaker 1: Yeah, you still can't.
16:28
Speaker 2: It's so crazy like you meet when you meet people
16:31
Speaker 2: like for me, I was I was really lucky in
16:34
Speaker 2: my situation where it happened quite quickly. Yeah, and it
16:36
Speaker 2: does happen, but then there's always complications in terms of
16:39
Speaker 2: it could take a while. I met a guy the
16:40
Speaker 2: other day and did a podcast with him who he
16:42
Speaker 2: and his wife have been trying for a year and
16:43
Speaker 2: a half.
16:44
Speaker 3: Which in the scheme of things, I would say, oh,
16:47
Speaker 3: that's ages.
16:47
Speaker 2: But there's people trying to be six years, five six years,
16:52
Speaker 2: and it's not Yeah, it's not fair, you know in
16:55
Speaker 2: some in some instances, and.
16:56
Speaker 3: Well you guys would know this as dads. I'm sure
17:00
Speaker 3: I've forgotten the six years. The trauma, like the trauma
17:05
Speaker 3: and the contracts and the amount of four AM calls
17:08
Speaker 3: with people in Texas and the heartbreak and the news
17:11
Speaker 3: and the know news and the meetings like the amount
17:14
Speaker 3: of money that was spent and the wants and the conversations.
17:18
Speaker 4: We had that's all gone.
17:20
Speaker 3: Now it's a blur. I've forgotten it. And during it,
17:24
Speaker 3: you know, we had this process that we never complained
17:27
Speaker 3: into the circle. We could only complain out of the circle,
17:29
Speaker 3: like to friends and family, But they could never complain
17:32
Speaker 3: to us about the process, right, they could complain outside
17:35
Speaker 3: of the circle. And that was to kind of protect us.
17:38
Speaker 3: And then finally when we had a surrygate to protect
17:40
Speaker 3: the surrogate that they didn't hear our frustrations.
17:42
Speaker 1: Of all those steps, was there one that was the hardest,
17:45
Speaker 1: like the most difficult puzzle to put in.
17:48
Speaker 3: So let's say there's twenty steps, right you the ip's
17:52
Speaker 3: intended parents. You are in control of nineteen of them.
17:56
Speaker 3: You make nineteen decisions. Yeah, the first nineteen. The last
17:59
Speaker 3: one is out of your control. The surrogate has to
18:02
Speaker 3: choose you, okay, And it makes.
18:06
Speaker 4: So much sense.
18:06
Speaker 3: They have to, well, they put their body, their life
18:10
Speaker 3: on the line, and their family on hold to create
18:13
Speaker 3: a family for somebody else. They have to want to
18:16
Speaker 3: connect to you, to want to bring your family dreams
18:19
Speaker 3: to life.
18:21
Speaker 4: Which makes a lot of sense when you really learn about.
18:23
Speaker 3: It, because it stops people of privilege being able to
18:28
Speaker 3: buy the right to a woman's body. Right. That's where
18:31
Speaker 3: the regulation really comes in over in America.
18:34
Speaker 1: So the complication for.
18:36
Speaker 3: Us was COVID. We were COVID had here and you
18:41
Speaker 3: had heard of it's common for a pregnant woman to
18:44
Speaker 3: go on bed rest, But during COVID, family weren't allowed
18:48
Speaker 3: to go and visit you if you're in hospital. So
18:50
Speaker 3: if a woman was put on a surroga was put
18:52
Speaker 3: on bed rest for four or five weeks, they were
18:56
Speaker 3: sitting in a hospital by themselves, without their family being
18:58
Speaker 3: able to come and see them. So all of a sudden,
19:00
Speaker 3: surrogate said, hang on, we're not going to be surrogates
19:04
Speaker 3: during COVID.
19:05
Speaker 1: So there was this big.
19:06
Speaker 3: Shortage, and then so in that shortage, we were still
19:10
Speaker 3: hoping someone would pick us.
19:11
Speaker 1: So just it dragged it out.
19:14
Speaker 2: Is there anywhere along that process where you had the
19:17
Speaker 2: feeling of this is not going to happen.
19:20
Speaker 4: One time it was really hard.
19:23
Speaker 3: We were away and we got matched with a surrogate
19:28
Speaker 3: and we were like, oh my god, it's going to happen.
19:31
Speaker 3: And we had the transfer date of when they were
19:34
Speaker 3: going to the fertility clinic and to match with one,
19:37
Speaker 3: you know, meant a lot. You know, somebody emotionally saying
19:41
Speaker 3: I'm going to bring your dreams to life, and you
19:44
Speaker 3: know the reality. We're like four years in I think
19:46
Speaker 3: it was, and then we get a call from the
19:49
Speaker 3: surrogacy agency the day of transfer and we're waiting to
19:52
Speaker 3: hear like, you know, the transfer embryo transfer transfer went
19:57
Speaker 3: really well, and we got told I hang on the
19:59
Speaker 3: surrogate actually really can't actually be your surreygen anymore.
20:02
Speaker 1: And we were like, what the fuck, what do you mean,
20:03
Speaker 1: what's happened?
20:04
Speaker 3: They said, we just found out the doctor whilst doing
20:08
Speaker 3: the transfer, overheard her in conversation say that she was
20:13
Speaker 3: on a medication, which actually she didn't disclose to us,
20:16
Speaker 3: which it goes against you being able to be a surrogate.
20:19
Speaker 3: And we were like, oh my god. They went so
20:21
Speaker 3: back to the drawing board and hung up on.
20:24
Speaker 1: Us and we were like far out God.
20:27
Speaker 3: Yeah, So that that really during the process, that was
20:29
Speaker 3: when we were like, this took forever to get here,
20:32
Speaker 3: and then it just disappeared like that.
20:34
Speaker 2: Can you describe that feeling you felt in that moment?
20:36
Speaker 2: I looked at Marcus. I can remember it were in Bali.
20:39
Speaker 2: I looked at Marcus and he was like, you could
20:42
Speaker 2: tell her. He was like, well, I don't know what
20:43
Speaker 2: to do now, And I knew exactly what I could do,
20:47
Speaker 2: and that was put a fucking email together and tear
20:50
Speaker 2: these motherfuckers to pieces, right, especially because when it's there
20:57
Speaker 2: was a lot of contracts throughout the process, but at
20:59
Speaker 2: the end of the day day I made it clear
21:01
Speaker 2: to them that you're working with people that are really
21:03
Speaker 2: vulnerable and actually you kind of have to do your
21:07
Speaker 2: due diligence and this lies on you like you've taken
21:10
Speaker 2: us so far down a road and then you've just
21:12
Speaker 2: pulled it away from us and you've just said, oh, well,
21:14
Speaker 2: it happens back to the drawing board. And so the
21:17
Speaker 2: sensitivity around it, you know, I'm pretty optimistic.
21:20
Speaker 4: I knew we would.
21:21
Speaker 1: I took it as a bit.
21:22
Speaker 3: Of a sign that, hang on, there was something wrong there,
21:26
Speaker 3: like that maybe it was a positive and a good thing,
21:29
Speaker 3: but I saw my husband kind of go, oh my god,
21:32
Speaker 3: how much longer can we just keep doing this?
21:35
Speaker 1: Yeah? So, how was it when that took place to
21:38
Speaker 1: when you were able to lock in the surrogate that
21:41
Speaker 1: gave you the twins?
21:42
Speaker 4: And became along I would say eight nine months later.
21:47
Speaker 3: Still a long time, and you know, we've got we
21:51
Speaker 3: had something like I think thirty great ambryos sitting waiting.
21:57
Speaker 1: To go right like which was which is a wild number?
22:00
Speaker 3: And we got amber and she sorry, you have your surrogate.
22:07
Speaker 1: She's getting the.
22:08
Speaker 3: Surrogate is not the egg donor. Yeah, we've had an
22:11
Speaker 3: egg donor who we've got.
22:14
Speaker 1: We were able to.
22:15
Speaker 4: Get forty one eggs from wow split down the middle.
22:18
Speaker 3: Of twenty was fertilized with Marcus's sperm, twenty one fertilized
22:21
Speaker 3: with mine, and then they grow them to day five
22:25
Speaker 3: and then in America they tell you if it's a
22:27
Speaker 3: great A, B or C or something, and B or
22:29
Speaker 3: C they do up to three thousand something like a
22:34
Speaker 3: genetic disorder testing, and they destroy any.
22:37
Speaker 1: That are a level C.
22:39
Speaker 3: Grade A is like won't let they say pretty much
22:41
Speaker 3: won't lead to any you know, problems with hues or
22:44
Speaker 3: miscarriages or whatever. And so we ended up I think
22:47
Speaker 3: with like nineteen grade A embryos. Wow, she's like good
22:51
Speaker 3: number of US fucking basketball team, like totally unheard of.
22:54
Speaker 3: So like we got forty one eggs and the standard
22:58
Speaker 3: is five to six eggs.
23:01
Speaker 1: Wow, yeah, you like triple that?
23:03
Speaker 3: Yes, she fucking super human our egg donut and there
23:07
Speaker 3: And I don't know if you guys have spoken to
23:12
Speaker 3: her like a fertility clinic before that spell.
23:14
Speaker 1: I kind of want to quickly take you to my own.
23:18
Speaker 3: If I'm like taking all that, we go to an
23:22
Speaker 3: ivy clinic here to do?
23:24
Speaker 1: I don't know.
23:25
Speaker 3: The cum dump literally literally just like wank into a giants.
23:31
Speaker 4: He's what you've seen in the movies.
23:33
Speaker 1: Right.
23:33
Speaker 4: They even gave a straight porn that I had to
23:35
Speaker 4: walk out. I was like, really.
23:39
Speaker 6: What the.
23:41
Speaker 3: Literally looked at my phone, right. And the fascinating thing
23:47
Speaker 3: is you can't use lube because it can contaminate.
23:50
Speaker 1: I just never do anything.
23:53
Speaker 7: And then this lady, we were like, you know, we
23:56
Speaker 7: were a bit worried, you know what if And she
23:59
Speaker 7: was with something like a character out of a movie,
24:01
Speaker 7: like imagine a like sixty five year old lady sitting
24:04
Speaker 7: behind a counter in a medical like, you know center,
24:06
Speaker 7: with a drry in her mouth.
24:08
Speaker 1: She didn't have one, but it was.
24:09
Speaker 5: Like a classic receptionist and she's thinking, all you guys
24:12
Speaker 5: are the same.
24:13
Speaker 3: Let me tell you this. She said, I've been working
24:16
Speaker 3: in fertility for over twenty years. Eggs women, they are
24:20
Speaker 3: so fragile and perfect. She said, When you put any
24:25
Speaker 3: man's sperm under a microscope and look at it, it's
24:28
Speaker 3: that dumb. It always fucking swims to the side of
24:32
Speaker 3: the glass of the peintree dish. Right, She's like, it's
24:35
Speaker 3: all the same, Trust that you'll be fine there picturing
24:41
Speaker 3: the person remorse.
24:45
Speaker 4: As semens.
24:49
Speaker 3: So, yeah, we're apparently our sperm's perfect, all of us,
24:51
Speaker 3: all of us, guys, we rarely have problems congratulation.
24:55
Speaker 1: Actually, I was like, I bet you he's been naughty before,
24:57
Speaker 1: and I bet it's got great sperm.
24:58
Speaker 6: Yeah, I thought that I was picking up on it.
25:02
Speaker 1: And so then you lock in Amber, who you said before,
25:06
Speaker 1: do you kind of just let her do a thing?
25:08
Speaker 1: She's in the States, do you fly over? Do you
25:11
Speaker 1: have any contact with her while she's pregnant.
25:13
Speaker 3: We started what we call and we've still got the
25:15
Speaker 3: group chat, found the group chat, and it's gone modern
25:17
Speaker 3: family and and you know, she would tell we had
25:23
Speaker 3: to build a relationship because she's the person that's going
25:26
Speaker 3: to feel the first kick and deciber that to.
25:28
Speaker 1: Give you guys a call like, give us a.
25:30
Speaker 3: Call and take us on that journeying experience with her.
25:33
Speaker 1: Do you want those little nuggets along the way? Of course?
25:35
Speaker 1: Right like you're like, we're pregnant, Oh my god.
25:37
Speaker 3: And you wait for the sixth week and then you
25:39
Speaker 3: wait for the you know, the nine week and the
25:41
Speaker 3: twelve week and not all these scans and updation, isn't it?
25:44
Speaker 3: And you know, you go, hang on, but this is
25:45
Speaker 3: somebody else's life that's helping us out. So you've got
25:48
Speaker 3: to respect the boundary and what is the boundaries you
25:50
Speaker 3: need to create? And we were so weirdly lucky that
25:54
Speaker 3: when we matched with Amber at the end of the call,
25:57
Speaker 3: Marcus and I you could tell were kicking each other
25:59
Speaker 3: under the table. We're like, she's so cool, and we
26:01
Speaker 3: got to meet her partner and her kids came in
26:04
Speaker 3: right on this like skyte and then she goes, I
26:06
Speaker 3: just got to see something. She's like, it just hit me.
26:09
Speaker 1: I love your tiktoks so good.
26:13
Speaker 4: You tell me I've made it all the way to.
26:16
Speaker 1: That's amazing.
26:18
Speaker 3: But it was like, we never wanted that to be
26:21
Speaker 3: a part of why someone would want to carry out children,
26:25
Speaker 3: And it just hit her at the end, and she
26:27
Speaker 3: throughout the pregnancy played like Martin Luke's podcast like for
26:31
Speaker 3: the Boys six Yeah. She asked us what our favorite
26:35
Speaker 3: songs were so she could play music like the Yeah.
26:38
Speaker 3: She really did a lot for us.
26:40
Speaker 1: Ash and I were taking this journey from a place
26:43
Speaker 1: of like a bit of naivety. But do you then
26:46
Speaker 1: go over and say, we'll be there in the country
26:48
Speaker 1: when you give birth.
26:49
Speaker 3: So there's court orders, which is phenomenal that, like America
26:54
Speaker 3: is just unbelievable with the court orders and contracts right
26:59
Speaker 3: that from birth, the babies are born with minor Marcus,
27:04
Speaker 3: there's a court order ready to go as soon as
27:05
Speaker 3: they're born that they are born with our names on
27:08
Speaker 3: their birth certificate, not the surrogate at all, because that
27:12
Speaker 3: would and she has no rights at all to the
27:15
Speaker 3: babies that if she did, it would be it would
27:18
Speaker 3: be an ambrolert. Literally, they would be like kidnapping. Marcus
27:26
Speaker 3: and I we had a window. I can't remember what
27:28
Speaker 3: it was, but if we weren't there, they could become
27:30
Speaker 3: awarded to the state.
27:33
Speaker 1: You've got to be there. Yeah, you're the parents.
27:35
Speaker 3: You got to How long that window was I can't
27:38
Speaker 3: remember what it was, but I do remember the surrogacy
27:41
Speaker 3: agency saying we can apply for an exemption to like nless,
27:45
Speaker 3: say they come and you guys can't be here in
27:47
Speaker 3: like in like a period of time, we would take
27:50
Speaker 3: responsibility for them for a period of because, which she did.
27:54
Speaker 3: They were two months early, they were two months premodness
27:58
Speaker 3: how many weeks they were thirty one week when they came,
28:01
Speaker 3: which is not uncommon for twins, but it's pretty fucked
28:05
Speaker 3: up when your two Aussie dads and you have to
28:07
Speaker 3: go to Armarillo, Texas. I've been and yeah, I stayed
28:13
Speaker 3: in the best Western there at Amarillo.
28:15
Speaker 2: Fuck dad, Yeah, yeah, twenty fifteen. I do recall you
28:20
Speaker 2: went over. You were there for quite a while. Can
28:22
Speaker 2: you talk us through that process? They come early, you're there,
28:26
Speaker 2: you've obviously there, got your name.
28:28
Speaker 1: What happens next?
28:30
Speaker 3: Uh, we're so out of our depth.
28:36
Speaker 1: Yep.
28:37
Speaker 3: We're doing the best. I say this about every parent.
28:41
Speaker 3: We're doing the best. We come with what we've got.
28:42
Speaker 3: For sure, we have no idea what babies are, and
28:46
Speaker 3: they're in these incubators and where it's overload of information
28:50
Speaker 3: in a foreign place. We become reciprocates of support from
28:54
Speaker 3: the Ronald McDonald house, who were like, it's here. Like
28:58
Speaker 3: we were like, oh no, we can't stay here. It's
29:01
Speaker 3: for people that need need this, and they were like,
29:04
Speaker 3: it's for you guys, Like it's a comfortable bed, it's
29:07
Speaker 3: a home away from home. You guys are going to
29:09
Speaker 3: be here for.
29:09
Speaker 1: Quite a while.
29:12
Speaker 3: Wow. And you know they're like, it's right across the
29:16
Speaker 3: road from the hospital. We were staying in the hospital
29:19
Speaker 3: next to the boys. Was really sad. Actually, we would
29:23
Speaker 3: spend fifteen sixteen hours a day with them, right, and
29:28
Speaker 3: most other babies in that ward didn't have any parents
29:31
Speaker 3: sitting with them, and so many were born toward like
29:35
Speaker 3: to the state. And it was I said to Marcus
29:38
Speaker 3: one day about this young young baby girl. I said,
29:41
Speaker 3: don't let me see her, because I'll apply for adoption
29:44
Speaker 3: like like I could. And there was this terrible moment
29:48
Speaker 3: where a nurse referred to her as a bitch. This
29:50
Speaker 3: little bitch won't shut up. This is a week old
29:52
Speaker 3: baby that was born prem whose mother gave her up
29:56
Speaker 3: for whatever reasons because you couldn't have an abortion it's illegal, right, yeah,
30:01
Speaker 3: and became a ward of the state. And I was like,
30:04
Speaker 3: what hope does this child have when even the nurses
30:08
Speaker 3: are calling you a bitch the day at a week in.
30:10
Speaker 1: And what's so annoying as well, is annoying that so
30:13
Speaker 1: many people out there at these conferences who were desperate,
30:16
Speaker 1: they had this fantasy with being parents. And then it's like,
30:19
Speaker 1: how can we not connect these children that are desperately
30:21
Speaker 1: mean parents to love them.
30:23
Speaker 4: And so we we now.
30:26
Speaker 3: Look at it as it was a master class. There
30:28
Speaker 3: was a moment to bond with these boys that we
30:30
Speaker 3: didn't realize we were going to get because we thought,
30:33
Speaker 3: hang on, we're going to get some babies, will come
30:34
Speaker 3: home and we'll fucking keep working and we'll we'll figure
30:37
Speaker 3: the rest out. And now, in hindsight, which is beautiful,
30:40
Speaker 3: we got a master class in babies.
30:44
Speaker 1: So you've got the best.
30:45
Speaker 3: People around you, these doctors and directors of the ward
30:48
Speaker 3: and that that would come and see how much time
30:50
Speaker 3: Marks and I was spending there and they loved it.
30:53
Speaker 3: They're like, this is so rare, and so they taught us.
30:58
Speaker 3: They brought us in tune together, every movement, sound, everything
31:02
Speaker 3: that the boys started to make and do, and these
31:05
Speaker 3: mini milestones they have to make to graduate out of
31:09
Speaker 3: Niker is wild.
31:10
Speaker 1: Right.
31:11
Speaker 3: The amount of work this baby has to do is
31:13
Speaker 3: fascinating and there's nothing you can really do other than
31:16
Speaker 3: try and give it your energy and love and whatever.
31:19
Speaker 3: And they did end up graduating, but we went we
31:24
Speaker 3: can't believe people are given a baby after two days
31:26
Speaker 3: and sent home. And so since that we go. There
31:30
Speaker 3: was a masterclass and we knew exactly what the boys needed, when, where,
31:33
Speaker 3: why and how because for five weeks, fifteen hours a day,
31:37
Speaker 3: we were supported by nurses and doctors that were telling
31:40
Speaker 3: us everything about a baby.
31:42
Speaker 1: That's amazing. Did you ever have any guild as a
31:45
Speaker 1: parent like I always think for those nine months, you know,
31:48
Speaker 1: with Marley and Flola, my two girls, when I'm waiting
31:51
Speaker 1: for them to arrive in this world, and I'm like,
31:53
Speaker 1: oh my god, I cannot wait to meet them, and
31:54
Speaker 1: it's amazing. For me, childbirth was great for me, it
32:00
Speaker 1: went better than I Then I get the guilt where
32:04
Speaker 1: I'm like, when the moments where it's so hard, and
32:07
Speaker 1: I'm like, I should be loving this because I wanted
32:09
Speaker 1: this so bad, and now that I've got it, I'm
32:11
Speaker 1: not enjoying every second. But for you, You've got on
32:13
Speaker 1: this journey of you know, years and years and years,
32:17
Speaker 1: and having twins, I kind of found them how hard
32:19
Speaker 1: that would be. But in the moments, we are not
32:21
Speaker 1: enjoying it. How are you dealing with the guilt.
32:24
Speaker 3: The first four months we had to we had to
32:28
Speaker 3: feed the boys every three hours, but it took an
32:32
Speaker 3: hour and a half to do the both of them,
32:34
Speaker 3: So every hour and a half we had to start again,
32:37
Speaker 3: just through the night for so it was eight twelve am,
32:40
Speaker 3: three am, six am, nine am, twelve pm, three pm,
32:43
Speaker 3: six pm, nine pm back to twelve am. It's exhausting,
32:46
Speaker 3: isn't it right? And it took an hour and a
32:48
Speaker 3: half to do to took forty five minutes through one baby.
32:50
Speaker 3: Because ultra prem babies, if a feed has to take
32:56
Speaker 3: they have to take x amount of calories in over
32:58
Speaker 3: thirty minutes, if every minute over the thirty minutes completely
33:01
Speaker 3: counteracts what they've just done because of the depletion of
33:04
Speaker 3: energy they've used.
33:06
Speaker 4: So there's this pressure on you to do.
33:08
Speaker 3: That, and then you have to berth them a certain
33:09
Speaker 3: way for an x amount of time because they're not
33:12
Speaker 3: developed yet right to be able to do what a
33:16
Speaker 3: term baby can do, so it takes.
33:18
Speaker 1: Far more time.
33:19
Speaker 3: So it was an hour and a half to do
33:22
Speaker 3: both boys, and then an hour and a half lady
33:24
Speaker 3: had to start again.
33:25
Speaker 1: And there were these nights no lie and it was three.
33:28
Speaker 3: Am and it was my gig and I was like cooked,
33:33
Speaker 3: like beyond and it was. It sounds so cliche and weird, right,
33:38
Speaker 3: but there was this star that I could see every
33:41
Speaker 3: single night looking out the window, and I would think
33:43
Speaker 3: to myself, I'm so not alone, and I've got so
33:47
Speaker 3: many people around us, like we're privileged, We've got good
33:50
Speaker 3: family and friends and a network. And I would look
33:53
Speaker 3: at this start and I was like, there's parents, probably mothers,
33:56
Speaker 3: doing this by themselves. And I had everything at my disposal,
34:01
Speaker 3: and that that was like what got me through that.
34:05
Speaker 3: I was like, I'm actually really lucky. We got everything
34:08
Speaker 3: we wanted. It's hard, it's frustrating, this is fucking tiring
34:12
Speaker 3: as fuck, right, But I was like, there's there's someone
34:15
Speaker 3: else out here doing a feed by themselves with no
34:19
Speaker 3: support right now that might be looking at that star
34:22
Speaker 3: and there was just starting to know a connection I
34:23
Speaker 3: had with it.
34:24
Speaker 2: And You're right, there's so many people out there that
34:26
Speaker 2: don't have the support and the network. As dads and
34:29
Speaker 2: as parents, we sometimes we take those moments for granted
34:32
Speaker 2: that hang on a minute, like people are really battling
34:35
Speaker 2: to have what I have and it's really hard to
34:37
Speaker 2: see that sometimes and we are just doing the.
34:39
Speaker 3: Best we can with what we've got. I truly believe it, right,
34:42
Speaker 3: And and that just told me I wasn't alone, right,
34:47
Speaker 3: And it can feel so lonely. You guys know this
34:51
Speaker 3: as parents. Every parent does right, like the pros and
34:54
Speaker 3: cons and the pressure can put on the relationship and
34:57
Speaker 3: yourself and but you know, it's a moment in time
35:01
Speaker 3: and we're You're not alone in it, even though you
35:03
Speaker 3: might feel it. So find that one thing that might
35:05
Speaker 3: connect you to somebody else when when you really feel alone. Yeah. Wow.
35:09
Speaker 1: And when you look at the type of dad that
35:11
Speaker 1: you are now, are the twins they ate nine months?
35:15
Speaker 4: Eighteen months?
35:16
Speaker 3: Oh shit? Yeah?
35:17
Speaker 1: Are you the type of dad now that when you
35:21
Speaker 1: were fantasizing about being a parent? Do they match up? Yeah?
35:26
Speaker 3: I love therapy right, And my therapist one day I
35:29
Speaker 3: said to her, is this.
35:30
Speaker 1: The same one that said don't fuck for five dates?
35:32
Speaker 6: No different, You've got to evolve in I said, you know,
35:39
Speaker 6: I have this idea of the type of dad I
35:41
Speaker 6: want to be, But I'm scared of the dad I
35:44
Speaker 6: know i'm going to be, which is a helicopter parent.
35:48
Speaker 3: I'll find it hard to share them or let them
35:51
Speaker 3: go right to some people. She said, well, like, you
35:54
Speaker 3: have to work on the type of person you want
35:56
Speaker 3: to be. You have to actually do the work to
35:59
Speaker 3: be the parent you want to be. It's not just
36:01
Speaker 3: going to come to you. I had to very early
36:04
Speaker 3: actively make myself uncomfortable as a dad by allowing my
36:10
Speaker 3: boys to be with other people who do the things
36:12
Speaker 3: that I thought I was a bit frightened of. And
36:14
Speaker 3: now I'm like, this is a call less little fucking cats,
36:18
Speaker 3: Like we hang out, like they were eating ants on
36:21
Speaker 3: the floor the other day with me, and I was
36:23
Speaker 3: like it was just like there's these moments of like, oh,
36:26
Speaker 3: I got a bird at the park, and like the
36:28
Speaker 3: three of us are fascinated together, and I'm like, this
36:31
Speaker 3: was it.
36:32
Speaker 2: This is exactly everything I wanted it. And it's so
36:35
Speaker 2: profound sometimes that you don't realize it till you get
36:37
Speaker 2: in the car after the session.
36:38
Speaker 3: You're like Holy.
36:40
Speaker 2: So there's times like for me where I've always sort
36:42
Speaker 2: of felt somewhat isolated as a child growing up, and
36:46
Speaker 2: then now it's sort of into my I feel like
36:48
Speaker 2: I always have to be around people. And my therapist said,
36:51
Speaker 2: you've got a little best friend. Now, do you not
36:53
Speaker 2: understand that?
36:53
Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, but whatever you say, they're like, fuck, yeah.
36:58
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm in there or die.
37:00
Speaker 2: I remember that sentence and I get in the car
37:02
Speaker 2: and I was like, I fucking cried dude, because I
37:05
Speaker 2: was like, I can't believe I took that for granted
37:07
Speaker 2: and I didn't know it was right there.
37:09
Speaker 3: I promised Bobby Beckett vocally the other day, promised him.
37:14
Speaker 3: I'm like, as your dad, I said, as your dad,
37:17
Speaker 3: I promise you, mate, I'm never going to tell you you're
37:20
Speaker 3: too much. Because he has this zest of energy and
37:24
Speaker 3: life you just see already, which is just the excitement
37:27
Speaker 3: he has of the world around him. He's just going
37:29
Speaker 3: to run headfirst into the world with it. And whereas
37:33
Speaker 3: you know, over to Oliver, he is the most considered
37:36
Speaker 3: human being I've ever come across as well. But my
37:41
Speaker 3: whole life, having full energy, was always told shut up,
37:43
Speaker 3: you too much, be quiet, just always put in this corner.
37:47
Speaker 3: And there was this moment the other day I looked
37:48
Speaker 3: at Bobby Becker and I went, my job as your
37:51
Speaker 3: dad is to one hundred percent make sure, like I
37:54
Speaker 3: let you really be the best version of you.
37:56
Speaker 1: I'm never going to say you too much.
37:58
Speaker 3: I love that. I love that so much.
38:00
Speaker 1: We were speaking in the car driving here about the
38:03
Speaker 1: fact that for yourself, two loving dads, obviously no mum
38:08
Speaker 1: in the picture because Amber doesn't play that role. Is
38:12
Speaker 1: that something that plays on your mind as a dad.
38:15
Speaker 3: Now, it's funny you say that I had this. I'm
38:18
Speaker 3: gonna fucking cry again. I don't think I was going.
38:19
Speaker 5: To two people cry on your podcast.
38:25
Speaker 3: Oh good, she keeps trying to get me to cry.
38:28
Speaker 3: But I've just been wired differently. But getting back to
38:32
Speaker 3: two girls, beautiful, beautiful, beautiful, And I had this moment.
38:37
Speaker 3: I don't know if you guys have come across her.
38:39
Speaker 3: What's her name, fucking miss something. She's American, Miss Rachel.
38:45
Speaker 1: God do tell.
38:50
Speaker 3: I had this moment and it was caught on It
38:53
Speaker 3: was just organic and natural. And the boys, they haven't
38:57
Speaker 3: really liked television or connected to anything, just flicking and
39:00
Speaker 3: I'm scrolling and they just go super silent and they
39:03
Speaker 3: are like hooked to Miss Rachel. She's never come on before,
39:07
Speaker 3: but they have just stopped in sync and they're listening
39:10
Speaker 3: to it right, and I was like, oh my god,
39:12
Speaker 3: this is fascinating. We're down a show to fucking like
39:14
Speaker 3: that I can use to distract them if I need it,
39:16
Speaker 3: right And next second she starts going, Okay, now let's
39:21
Speaker 3: say I.
39:23
Speaker 4: Love you mama.
39:24
Speaker 3: I love you mama, and I'm going, oh my fucking god.
39:30
Speaker 4: I'm like, I wasn't ready for this.
39:32
Speaker 3: And I'm looking at the boys and they're like they
39:35
Speaker 3: can pick up everything really quick. Some one starts saying mummy, mummy,
39:38
Speaker 3: and I'm like, oh my god.
39:40
Speaker 4: Anyway, I'm like.
39:42
Speaker 3: Look that girl has a mom bright like, oh how cool.
39:46
Speaker 1: Right.
39:46
Speaker 3: I tried to just throw it off and anyway, I
39:49
Speaker 3: was like, get this bitch off my television. I'm just
39:51
Speaker 3: going to fuck up.
39:54
Speaker 1: I was gonna read out of this conversation.
39:56
Speaker 3: And then I put the boys in the bath later
39:57
Speaker 3: on and I start crying. I bore my eyes out
40:00
Speaker 3: right because I'm like, I have a really good mom,
40:02
Speaker 3: and I realized that my boys are never going to
40:04
Speaker 3: have a mom. And then I've felt guilty that have
40:08
Speaker 3: brought kids into this world. That aren't ever going to
40:10
Speaker 3: have a mom. They got to really great dads, but
40:13
Speaker 3: they're never going to experience what I did in a mum.
40:17
Speaker 3: And I shared that as well as I quickly fucking
40:20
Speaker 3: kicked myself up the ass and picked myself up and
40:22
Speaker 3: I kept moving.
40:23
Speaker 1: And what I.
40:26
Speaker 3: Got was this beautiful and I never looked for validation
40:29
Speaker 3: from others, but I share parts of myself and people
40:31
Speaker 3: were like I had, I had one mom and one
40:34
Speaker 3: dad and they were both disappointments. Your kids don't just
40:37
Speaker 3: have one great dad, they've got two incredible dads, like
40:39
Speaker 3: far more than.
40:40
Speaker 1: What I ever had.
40:41
Speaker 3: And there was this beautiful, beautiful sense of like I
40:45
Speaker 3: think respect I got or or people held up a
40:48
Speaker 3: mirror to me in that moment. I was like, all right, cool,
40:51
Speaker 3: pick yourself up. They're going to be fine. But you know,
40:53
Speaker 3: I think it comes from and I come from a
40:54
Speaker 3: loving family that I went, oh my god, my boys
40:57
Speaker 3: aren't I'm going to miss out on something I loved having,
40:59
Speaker 3: which is a good mum.
41:00
Speaker 2: These boys have two dads that absolutely loved them so much.
41:05
Speaker 2: And you said something before where you said, I'm never
41:08
Speaker 2: ever going to tell you that you're too much I
41:10
Speaker 2: want you to be you, and that is something that
41:13
Speaker 2: no one else other than two loving parents can give them.
41:16
Speaker 2: And congratulations for that, because sitting with you for forty
41:19
Speaker 2: five minutes, you can tell how fucking passionate you are
41:23
Speaker 2: about these two humans that you've.
41:24
Speaker 1: They are so lucky you've spent so long to.
41:27
Speaker 3: Bring into the world.
41:28
Speaker 2: And then when they grow up and they're like, I'm
41:29
Speaker 2: going to have the coolest fucking dads in the world.
41:32
Speaker 4: I just can't wait.
41:33
Speaker 3: Like Luke tells this great story. Our egg Donor is
41:36
Speaker 3: six or six. She plays volleyball for America and is
41:39
Speaker 3: an Ivy League scholar.
41:41
Speaker 1: The drug, well did you.
41:42
Speaker 3: Get into a sports school immediately?
41:44
Speaker 1: So listen, they're going to be giants. They already are, right.
41:48
Speaker 3: I just have this nightmare before they were born that
41:50
Speaker 3: I would carry them as babies under both arms and
41:53
Speaker 3: their legs were dragged. The boys are eighty months, they're
41:56
Speaker 3: already like eighty two centimeters tall ons premmi and they're
42:01
Speaker 3: already like they're going to be fucking monster. And Luke
42:04
Speaker 3: says this great story to somebody the other week. He goes,
42:07
Speaker 3: I just fast forward and in like fifteen years time,
42:11
Speaker 3: twenty years time, like they'll be playing professional basketball or something, right,
42:16
Speaker 3: and then the other people on the team will be like,
42:18
Speaker 3: who is that little lady screaming on the sidelines And
42:22
Speaker 3: looks like there's going to be these two giant kids
42:24
Speaker 3: are going to be like, that's how dad.
42:28
Speaker 4: On the sidelines.
42:30
Speaker 3: They're just going to be the proudest, like biggest giants
42:32
Speaker 3: on the fucking team. Two very lucky kids. Yeah, we're
42:36
Speaker 3: lucky parents. Do con has one more question?
42:39
Speaker 1: Conscious that we're going to get some vanilla ice creams
42:42
Speaker 1: and bolonnais into you. So one last question. When the
42:46
Speaker 1: boys are grown up and they've moved out of home,
42:50
Speaker 1: they're no longer living under your roof, what is the
42:52
Speaker 1: one thing you want them to remember about the house
42:54
Speaker 1: they grew up in.
42:55
Speaker 4: My god, I think that they were allowed.
43:01
Speaker 3: They were allowed, and that's means allowed to be them
43:05
Speaker 3: their true self, That they were in a place that
43:10
Speaker 3: was of no judgment and nothing but support. And I
43:15
Speaker 3: came from that home, but in a different in a
43:18
Speaker 3: different generation, a different time that where generational and or
43:22
Speaker 3: like societal norms really greatly affected you, right, And so
43:29
Speaker 3: Minor Marx's yeah, like dream and promise is that They're
43:32
Speaker 3: never going to carry the burden of what society, you know.
43:37
Speaker 1: What mold they should have fit into.
43:38
Speaker 3: Yeah, not in our house, Like that doesn't exist in
43:40
Speaker 3: our house. So I want them to know that they
43:42
Speaker 3: can always, always, truly one be themselves and not be
43:45
Speaker 3: affected by whatever anyone else around them thinks.
43:49
Speaker 2: That's an amazing, amazing answer, And thank you so much.
43:52
Speaker 2: I know we've been trying to get you on for
43:53
Speaker 2: a long time.
43:55
Speaker 3: Perfect moment, and I'm really grateful for this time too.
43:59
Speaker 3: Thank you so much much. Been a bloody joy. Thanks fellas.
44:05
Speaker 1: I often complaining fash about parenting. When I say often,
44:09
Speaker 1: I mean daily. I was gonna say, howie, but it
44:14
Speaker 1: is really nice to speak to someone else, another parent,
44:16
Speaker 1: to put into perspective how lucky we are considering we
44:20
Speaker 1: didn't have to go through six years of trying, of
44:24
Speaker 1: going through a minefield to try and just be a
44:27
Speaker 1: To try and just be a parent.
44:28
Speaker 2: Is literally a rollercoaster. Like the patients on both of them.
44:31
Speaker 2: There are so many people that probably just will give
44:35
Speaker 2: up just because they lose hope. But it just goes
44:38
Speaker 2: to show if you're persistent enough and you really want that,
44:42
Speaker 2: then you know it can come true. So amazing chat.
44:46
Speaker 2: There's laughs, people cried, not me this.
44:49
Speaker 1: Time, not yet? Yeah, do I dare say? Do I
44:52
Speaker 1: dare say? One of my favorite episodes.
44:55
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, it was great chat. It was so like
44:57
Speaker 2: organic and like funny and there's some laughs.
44:59
Speaker 1: Some li I liked him before, I love him now. Yeah.
45:03
Speaker 2: And his brother is also a very good fellow.
45:05
Speaker 1: Let's not forget about Luke Luke. If I have kids,
45:07
Speaker 1: get on the podcast.
45:08
Speaker 2: If you've enjoyed this episode, please leave a little review
45:11
Speaker 2: five stars, send us to a friend, or you can
45:14
Speaker 2: join us where on socials.
45:15
Speaker 1: Mat on social media at two Doting Dads on Instagram, TikTok.
45:18
Speaker 1: There is also YouTube not for these eves for the
45:21
Speaker 1: Wednesday episodes. Ignore me, I'm confusing you, but leave a review.
45:25
Speaker 1: There we go perfect.
45:26
Speaker 3: See how bye bye.
45:33
Speaker 1: Two Doting Dads podcast acknowledges the traditional custodians of country
45:36
Speaker 1: throughout Australia and the connections to land, see and community.
45:40
Speaker 2: We pay our respects to their elders past and present
45:43
Speaker 2: and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and torrestraight on
45:46
Speaker 2: the People's Today