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The Right Seed for the Right Spot with Rob Cook · Conservation Stories

• 0:11
  Speaker A: Hello, friends. Welcome back to another edition of Conservation Stories. This is your host, Tillery Timmons Sims, and I am so excited to have with me today Rob Cook, who works with Bammer Seed in Muleshoe, Texas. Bammer Seed is a one of my favorite local stores, businesses. I got to tour Bammert in my cohort with the Texas Agricultural Lifetime Leadership Program, and it was one of my favorite stops. Rob, thank you so much for joining us today. I really appreciate it.
• 0:48
  Speaker B: Hello, Tiller. Yeah. Thank you for having us. We really appreciate the opportunity and we're really excited about what you are doing at the Sandhills Area Research association. And just thought of be on this podcast, and I know it's gaining a lot of steam, too. So that's. That's great for everyone.
• 1:06
  Speaker A: It sure is. It sure is. I know we were just discussing a while ago about folks that I have that are just kind of like, randomly coming up to me and telling me, oh, I'm listening to your podcast, which is so amazing to me. Amazing. So I'd love for you to give a little background to our listeners on Bama, because the history that Bamert has in our area, I think, is really fundamental to what's happening right now in this resurgence of the recognition of the value of native seeds and their impact that they have on our soil and how much we need to be really learning about that.
• 1:47
  Speaker B: Sure, you bet. Yeah. So the company started in 1951. Our founder, Carl Bammert, when he got out of the military, he was from southern New Mexico down around Las Cruces, and started looking for some land to start. He wanted to get into ag production, and I felt that land was a little expensive down there and started kind of looking all around the region to find a place for him to get a foothold. And he landed in Muleshoe, and he actually started out in the cattle business somewhere late 40s, early 50s. The cattle business kind of broke. He actually started producing some native grass seed for another company. And so it was kind of an interesting story. And he did that for a while. And the gentleman that came to you said, carl, I don't have any funds to pay you for your seed. So what you need to do is plow it up. And then, you know what you do have, maybe I can find a way to get you paid for that later. And Carl didn't agree with that idea. And so he started looking for a market for the seed he did have, and basically Bammert Seed Company came out of that. So Carl started growing the company and Producing, you know, at that time they produced two, three, four species of seed, really found some markets and started growing the company and you know, the early 50s, about 1951. Later, after Nick Bammer, his son graduated from Texas AM and came back in the early 80s, Nick got involved in the business and through his leadership and his insight really grew it also. So after the 85 farm bill with a lot of these conservation programs and highly erodible soils and CRP came out of that and Nick was really able to capitalize on that, on that program and provide seed for the southern Great Plains and the High Plains and did a great job with seed for that program and continued to grow the amount of species that we were producing. A little bit later on, Nick's sons, Austin Behmert, who manages our farms, runs our farms, and then Brett Bemmert, who's our president, came back to the organization and have really taken over leadership and have really grown the amount of species. So today we grow about 120 different species of varieties of native grasses, forbs and legumes on our own farms. We sell, the majority of what we sell is site specific custom blends, meaning that we will do a custom blend of the species and more importantly, the varieties of those species that are most adapted to, to the side of, to help meet those goals. A lot of our seed goes to land use changes, dry land, irrigated farming and pasture, rangeland situation, wildlife habitat. There's a lot that goes into the energy sector, oil and gas, solar and wind. And then there's, like you mentioned earlier, there's just a huge push to understand and, and people are starting to understand and we're getting back to understanding the benefits of biodiversity above ground and below ground and what these natives do to provide for that all the way through our food chain, even at more of a granular local level, like in our ranchettes and our yards and then all the way up to our large pastures. Yeah, and large ranches. We've been blessed too to be able to hire an amazing staff. So we have ecologists on our staff that just happened to sell seed. We hired ecologists and not seed salesmen. So all of our staff has years and years of experience basically with consultations through landowners through the southern Great Plains of improving ecological functions with their management. And so we think we're unique in the industry that way. We really focus on selling the rights seed to the right spot to ensure everybody has success with their project.
• 5:55
  Speaker A: That I, you know, we have a lot of, a lot of folks that are building out south of Lubbock especially that are buying, you know, a few acres and there's some interest in, you know, what do we put in, you know, what can we do? And you know, you mentioned that you're seeing land use changes. Is that some of what you're talking about? Are you seeing, you know, how much of that kind of thing are you seeing?
• 6:24
  Speaker B: Yeah, so we do see a lot of that. And you know, folks have interest in one, a native lawn or a native area that there's less inputs to go into fertilizer, weed spray, the amount they have to mow as well as, as well as the amount of irrigation that's required for a lot of, you know. And so some of that takes a shift in what we see in our mind's eye about what's pretty and what makes the lawn our native. Let's take buffalo grass, for example. I built a house about three years ago and put all buffalo grass, which is a native sod forming short grass in my yard. And I don't water it. And so after I got it established, I don't water it. I think my wife turned on the sprinklers a little bit this week after, you know, a month of 100 plus degrees. And so it turns brown. Yeah, you know, it'll turn brown when it doesn't rain. But it's still alive, it's still there. And as soon as it rains, it greens back up and looks just as beautiful as any other, you know, cool season fescue or bermudagrass lawn that we could have. So, you know, there's a lot of opportunity there for people to be a part of our water conservation. It does take a little bit of shift in our mind's eye of what we, what we see is beautiful for that.
• 7:47
  Speaker A: Yeah, no, as that is very true. I do think some of that is starting to happen and I think that, you know, I'd love to do some more experimenting. I've done a little bit and in my yard, you know, but I sure would love to do a little bit more and you know, kind of demonstrate that you don't have to have a high water use yard, you know, for. For it to be something that can be attractive, you know, and that's just. Yeah. Something that our. We have to get used to used to seeing because we don't see much green sometimes. And sometimes it is nice to drive through those neighborhoods and go, oh, there's some trees and some green grass, you know. So yeah, it does take a mind shift. It really does. Well, you mentioned just a Second ago, a question I want to ask, but before I rabbit trail off onto that, I'd love for you to give us some of your background and, you know, tell us how you got to Bamford.
• 8:44
  Speaker B: So I grew up in and in Vega, just up there west of Amarillo. And I got. I got two degrees at Angelo State University, so I got. I got a master's in range and wildlife management. I spent about 12 years right out of school working for the NRCS for USDA Natural Resources Conservation Service. And so I kind of worked all across Texas as a rangeland management specialist and had the opportunity to. The last four years of my career, I ran a program called the National Resource Inventory. So I was in charge of the top 54 counties, the northernmost 54 counties in Texas, so the Panhandle and beyond there, and did these resource inventories where we had predetermined points, where we went and looked and read vegetative transects. But what that really allowed me to do is understand ecological sites. So there are different ecological sites based off soil types in the geography that will support different plant communities. So I really got a knowledge of those, and I collected a lot of data that goes into those ecological site descriptions. I was able to do that. And then we were blessed to be able to. After my wife, Landry and I got married and we had our first little son, Hudson, we were able to move to Ardmore, Oklahoma, and I went to work for the Noble Research Institute. So we had a multidisciplinary consultation group. We had a. A beef cattle specialist, a soils and crop specialist, range and pasture specialist, wildlife specialist, and then ag economist. So I had about 10 folks on my staff, and so we were able to go out and consult with landowners across the nation on all those. So we would. We could bring all five of those disciplines or one or two based off the need of the landowners. That, that was a great experience in. We, you know, we're really able to. To grow. Grow some of my skill set, but also learn from some great folks there and some great producers that I was privileged enough to, to help, you know, on their. On their, Their programs across, you know, white swaths of the Southern Great Plains. So learned a lot there.
• 11:01
  Speaker A: Wow, what a great opportunity and what a really, a fantastic way to meet some needs that. Are they still doing that?
• 11:11
  Speaker B: They are. They've. They've shifted a little bit in their mission, but they're still providing that kind of more education. But they're doing some great class, some great work. But yeah, that's. They're still there and really worth checking out. So the noble researchers.
• 11:25
  Speaker A: Yeah, I've always heard of them. I've heard of some of the things that they do, but that particular I haven't heard of. You know, that brings to mind a conversation I had. We were in Boston recently touring some urban gardens. And they have a. You know, we're talking about how they train. You know, people can come in and take a nine week course on farming and then, you know, be urban farmers. And after it was over, I asked the man that was teaching these classes. I was like, this is a great idea. Can anybody make a living doing it here? And he said, no. And I would love to find somebody to help me because I don't understand why they're not. And I'm like, you need an ag economist. And he was like, there's an ag economist. I'm like, yes, there is. You need one. That's what you need. Yeah, that's just such a great thing. And so. And then from there, what happened? Where'd you go?
• 12:14
  Speaker B: Yeah. So then we got the opportunities to kind of move back home here at Bammert. So my wife and her family have a dry land, wheat and milo and soccer operation in eastern New Mexico. And so this opportunity came here at Bammer, and we're able to get closer to, you know, my wife, their family in the farm, and closer to my family up at Vega. And it's just been a great. A great fit. Yeah. I serve as the director of business development for Ben Seed Company. So I guess for a small company that kind of means Gopher kind of do everything, but I get to manage our sales staff that we discussed a little earlier briefly, and the consultation and what they do, what they provide and then, and then just try to develop new markets. And then I also was blessed to be able to start being more involved in the National Grazing Lands Coalition after my move and have been able to serve, blessed to serve as the chairman of the board for the last two years.
• 13:19
  Speaker A: You know, that's interesting because Lacey and I have had conversations as we've researched different types of carbon initiative things, and that's how we kind of found national grazing lands. Like, she has been very impressed with the information that she's gotten from that organization.
• 13:37
  Speaker B: Thank you. We appreciate we've grown tremendously in the last two years and look forward to do that. But just providing capacity and advocating for our nation's grazing lands and the managers on them and understanding the value that those folks in those lands provide to society.
• 13:53
  Speaker A: Right. And then, yeah, Society and the environment, how vital they are.
• 14:00
  Speaker B: Right. Which plays right into, you know, my role at Bamar Seed. And, you know, that's a lot of what we're trying to do with providing the right seeds and at the right spot in the right time, and then helping with a little bit of management after that is all the value, all the value those natives and biodiversity provide for our water cycle, which is huge in our part of the world, and our nutrient cycle and our energy cycle.
• 14:23
  Speaker A: And yeah, you mentioned a while ago the. How important that biodiversity is for above the ground and below the ground, and I'd love for you to dig into that a little bit and explain what you mean.
• 14:37
  Speaker B: When we're looking at, you know, a native range setting, a native range pasture, all the biodiversity above ground, all those different plants really attract a biodiversity of anywhere from insects to wildlife. It's even very beneficial to our livestock. But that biodiversity above ground leads to biodiversity below ground. All of those different plants have different root systems that have different structures, and all those plants have different growth curves. So those roots look just as diverse below ground as they do above ground. And those plants having different growth curves means those roots are demanding nutrients at different parts through the soil profile at different times of the year based off of their growth curve. So it's one of our better insurances against drought, because all those different plants are demanding water at different parts of the soil profile at different times of the year. And so in a monoculture, when we have all one plant, they're demanding the same thing at the same time and the same point of that soil profile. So there's a lot of competition for those resources. So in areas like ours where we have, you know, a lot of times we're resource poor, especially when it comes to water, having that resiliency is really key. Another thing that that biodiversity does is it increases the biodiversity of our microbes below. Below the soil, too. So each one of those different roots puts off different plant exudases, and those exudases attract different types of bacteria, fungi, different things to feed on them.
• 16:15
  Speaker A: Okay, so for me and the people listening, go back and explain. Exudate.
• 16:21
  Speaker B: Yeah. So there's different compounds that those roots put out, and basically what it boils down to is carbon, but it puts out that carbon sugars different things, and our microbes are attracted to those to feed on them.
• 16:37
  Speaker A: Mm. Okay. Okay.
• 16:39
  Speaker B: So those. Those microbes, especially fungi, also form a symbiotic relationship with our plants and increase basically the surface area of those roots. They make that network a lot Bigger, right.
• 16:52
  Speaker A: Wow, that's amazing. Because what I understand, like the fungi is kind of like, if I'm remembering correctly, it's kind of like the highway, like the. They build kind of the highway across the soil. Is that kind of correct?
• 17:08
  Speaker B: That is correct, yeah. And they'll share. Help those plants share resources. They'll share resources with the plants. But that's all part of the biology and everything that's going on under the soil, and that's where a lot of our carbon comes from, is from our roots.
• 17:27
  Speaker A: Okay, so let me ask you a question. Did you learn any of this in college? Were they talking about this when you were in college? Were they talking about microbes and fungi and how vital they were?
• 17:40
  Speaker B: To an extent, yeah. I was blessed. And Angelo State had an amazing range program. It was focused on biodiversity for the most part, which we know leads to this. But yeah, biodiversity was kind of the focus of that. But yeah, we, we did delve into some of this, but. But a lot of it was, you know, things that I've. That I've been blessed enough to have some mentors and I picked on after that. But I had a very good foundation.
• 18:11
  Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. My husband is actually a graduate of Angelo State and I've heard really, really good things about that. And, and the extension down there also. Sonora Station is one of my favorite places in all of the world.
• 18:27
  Speaker B: Prescribed fire things going on. There's a totally. We could spend two hours on that conversation alone.
• 18:33
  Speaker A: Yes. My goodness, what they've done. They, they. I know. That's another place we got to tour when I was in Texas, Ag leadership Tall. And I was just so impressed. They've created a feed out of juniper. Out of juniper. I mean, like, who would have ever thought? Yeah, they're just there. I know. I'm like, that is a pretty amazing. Yeah. So I was super impressed. Are you a farmer or rancher? Are you raising cattle or bison? Maybe you're feeling the pinch at your local processor or noticing new disposal fees, or you're simply wanting to get more value from every part of your livestock. The Growing grass project could be the solution you're looking for. This USDA funded initiative led by the American Sustainable Business Institute and the American Sustainable Business Network, along with other half Processing is working to bring value back to cattle and bison producers while also supporting people on the planet with their generalized regenerative agricultural sourcing specification grass for short. They're helping ranchers verify and market regeneratively raised cattle and bison. And it's not just about the Meat grass includes hides and other byproducts, making sure that every part of the animal contributes profitability. If you're interested, you can start by taking a quick 10 minute screening survey. Qualified participants can receive direct payments, technical support and even $500 a year for the remaining years of the grant. Ready to see if your operation fits. Head over to grass.org to learn more and to take the first steps. That's grassggrass.org grow the value of your livestock while growing a more sustainable future. So we've talked to Rhett Kirby some and he at one time worked with Bammert on reclamation and the importance of that and the seeds that you know, need to be available for that. And then I've seen you guys, your work also through Texan by nature. I know you're great partner with them and kind of, I think you know, they've really just pioneered this, this industry and I'm, you know, wonder if you can tell us some about. You have different seeds in different regions and how are you guys helping people figure out what they need?
• 21:27
  Speaker B: So that I think that's one of the key. So historically when people talk about establishing native grasses, native plants, there's been some hesitation because they feel it, they're hard to establish and there is something to that. They do take a little bit longer to establish. But one of the keys is selecting the right species, the species that are adapted to your site and a step further selecting the variety of those species that are adapted to that site. So our staff does a great job of understanding that and being able to help with that. But we also, we said, you know, we got to take this a step further. And we developed a web application, we worked with Colorado State University and we developed a Web application called SeedSpec. So s e e-p e c.com so anybody can get, it's a free tool. Anybody can get on and register and log on and you can develop a site specific custom blend based off the soils in your area. No, what you do is you go on and you get registered and it's a geospatial platform. So you go to your area, wherever that is and you draw off an area of interest. So wherever you want your project to be, just kind of like any other, if you're on Google Earth or anything like that, where you just draw, you use a tool and draw off your area and it uses, it uses that geometry, it uses those boundaries as a cookie cutter and it takes that cookie cutter and it goes and hits a huge. The SERGO database The USDA soils database for the entire nation. And it brings back the data pertinent to our project. So that database, if you go to websool Survey, it's NRCS website, phenomenal database. I've used it my entire career. It's great. Everybody should look at it, but there's tons of data in there. And you almost have to have a little bit of working knowledge to understand how to use that tool and then understand the data that's coming out of it. But what our tool does is hit that same database, but only brings back information pertinent to developing a blend. So it brings back your soils, how much, what percentage of each one of those soils is in your project area, and then a little bit about that soil, kind of what the texture is, and a little bit about it.
• 23:58
  Speaker A: So put some layman's terms correct.
• 24:02
  Speaker B: Yeah. And makes that process a lot simpler, easier, and quick. And then that soils data then goes and hits another database. I talked about ecological sites a little earlier, but there's a database called Edit that houses all the ecological site descriptions that have been developed in the US So each one of those soils corresponds to an ecological site. So you might have two or three different soils make up one ecological site. But what an ecological site is is a group of soils that are similar, that are on the same part of our geography with the same kind of climatic conditions that will support certain species of plants on them because of those characteristics, and you're able to manage those in the same way. So what this tool does is it shows you which ecological sites you have within your project area, and then within those ecological sites, there are species composition lists of the species that natively grow on that site. So the tool will weight that list based off what the percentage of the ecological site is within your area, and then cross reference it with a list of species that are commercially available. And that's important because not all of our species are available. So when you cross reference it, you know what's available. So it'll give you a report of what species are on the market and that are adapted to your site. And it takes it a step further, and it recommends the variety of the species that's adapted to your specific area. And the value of that is like take side oats, Grama, for example. We produce five different side o varieties, State grass of Texas, but we produce five different ones because they are. We want to make sure we're adapted. We're. We're putting the variety that's adapted to your region on your project. So all Five of those are adapted to different regions across the state.
• 26:13
  Speaker A: So are you growing across the state?
• 26:16
  Speaker B: We take those genetics and we grow them here on our farms and muleshoe and then at Panhandle, and then we grow them here, and then we sell them back out in those blends to the most adapted area.
• 26:29
  Speaker A: I guess what you're saying is that those ecological areas are in different parts of the state, and some of them are here where we are as well. I guess what I'm asking is like, does it impact. If you're growing something for an area that's different, are y'all growing things that can be used in areas like on the coastal bend? Can you even grow those here?
• 26:48
  Speaker B: Yes, we can. Some of those are adapted, and we do have a little bit of production for specific species down closer there. But the value of having a perennial plant is we bring the genetics up here and plant it, and then those genetics don't shift because we don't allow any new seedling recruitment. They're the same genetics that stay there. And so when we're selling them as certified seed, they can only stay in production for a certain amount of time. So we don't start getting that genetic shift.
• 27:26
  Speaker A: Okay, okay, I got you.
• 27:28
  Speaker B: We, yeah, we get to the point where we're past, you know, we hit that deadline of, say, seven years and we take that field out and we'll plant another production field of that species just to make sure we don't get that genetic shift.
• 27:43
  Speaker A: Right. Because that does happen over time. Yeah. Which is. Which is interesting. You know, we talk a lot. There's discussions about, you know, genetic modification and that kind of stuff. And it's interesting, people don't really understand that a lot of that happens naturally, you know, and you're really trying to be careful to avoid that happening, correct?
• 28:02
  Speaker B: Yeah. And yeah, in our production fields. So it'll go even a step further and it'll recommend, based off of the prevalence of that specific species within your area naturally, the percentage of each one of those species that should be in your blend. Anybody can develop their own site specific custom blend not knowing anything about grasses or the species even, and have confidence that, you know, when you take that to whatever, whatever seed dealer you're using that, if you purchase that blend or those species in that blend or some combination, that they're adapted to your site and that you're going to have some success. One of the values, too, of understanding everything that grows there is oftentimes when we're planting natives, especially in reclamation, know, especially after Some kind of disturbance or if we're going from farmland back to native land, you know, grassland, which happens, this happens quite a bit. But we're planning our higher successional species, so meaning those, those species that are, we normally see in very healthy rangelands. So higher successional species and that's all we're planning because a lot of times those are the best grazers or best wildlife habitat. So we're planting those in soil that's not in high successional state and then wondering why we're not having success. So understanding all those other species that are there, there's a lot of lower and mid successional species that set the stage, that are role players, that set the stage for our higher succession.
• 29:37
  Speaker A: Okay, so for those of us in the balcony, bring it down a little bit lower to successional. Tell us what that means.
• 29:48
  Speaker B: Yep. So after disturbance or in a degraded state, you, both sites are usually dominated by lower successional species, meaning they do better in degraded sites, maybe less nutrient availability, you know, porcelain structure. But they're usually not our best grazers. They're usually don't provide our best wildlife habitat or best pollinator habitat. A lot of times there's not much production, forage production.
• 30:21
  Speaker A: So when you're, when you're, you're saying when your soul's not healthy, you're going to get the lowest hanging fruit of plants like the ones that just are not really necessarily what you really want.
• 30:35
  Speaker B: Yeah, what we're normally shooting for. But their role play, their role play.
• 30:39
  Speaker A: They have a role to play. Okay.
• 30:41
  Speaker B: Yep. They get established and they hold the world together. They stop erosion. They start getting a active root growing in the ground, they start getting some biology in the ground growing. And they set the stage for the next group, the mid successional species to start coming in and those start providing more and more services for, you know, for our wildlife, our pollinators, our grazing animals.
• 31:08
  Speaker A: It takes time.
• 31:10
  Speaker B: It does take time.
• 31:11
  Speaker A: So can I ask you a question then about. I've heard someone say that they restored their ply lake and now it's just a whole bunch of weeds. And is it because of soil degradation? Like, is there something that they can be doing that can help that along?
• 31:31
  Speaker B: Yeah. So a lot of times it is because of degradation soil. But weeds, weeds are part of that. Those are lower successional.
• 31:40
  Speaker A: That's what I was going to ask. Okay.
• 31:42
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 31:42
  Speaker A: And so, so they're playing a role.
• 31:44
  Speaker B: They're playing the role. A lot of times they're mother Nature's scab, their mother Nature's Band aid. If you continue the management that caused that wound, all you're going to see is those scabs. You have to change your management of what got that soil, what got that system to that state before you'll see a change. And so our herbicides and our other inputs are a tool to help us get over the hump. But what we're doing using those herbicides and other inputs is we're treating the symptoms, right? We're not actually healing this, we're not actually healing the system. So when we change our management, we can use those tools. But weeds are lower successional species, and so they're going to be present there as that scab. And if our management's correct and we start getting all of our systems and all of our biology going underground, we'll start seeing a shift in species composition to where we have those higher successional ice cream plants, the ones that people really like to see. And so what we do a lot to help us get over that hump is we use cover crops. So we want it. So what cover crops do is they mimic healthy native rangelands. All that biodiversity and everything's going on. That's what we're doing with those cover crops. But what they do in this instance is they take the place of our weeds, right? We're using this cover crop, we're using a species we want to take the place of the weed. And so we can do that for a few years if we're really in a degraded state and use the COVID crops and grow, for lack of a better term, the weed species that we want, our cover crop, species that might have some other value, you know, other benefits. We can use those to kind of set the stage, to get past that first step in our journey, you know, through succession, to get to the next step, quicker of those other plants that we really want to see besides our weeds.
• 33:47
  Speaker A: That is so fascinating.
• 33:49
  Speaker B: A lot of times, depending on the type of weeds, when we have weeds, we have to do something to kickstart that system to get past, to get past that stage, whether it's herbicide or mowing or grazing. But we've got to do something because weeds can be competition for our other species, right? And if we, if we allow them to just keep going, sometimes we never get past that stage. And sometimes we can. But a lot of times it takes some type of intervention or some type of practice to jumpstart the system and get past that.
• 34:24
  Speaker A: So another question. I know that a lot of our native seeds are spiny, and you have to Have a fluffy seed drill to plant them. Is that true for all native seeds or is that just our area?
• 34:38
  Speaker B: Yeah. So not all native seeds are fluffy or spiny and the majority of them are. And we're normally trying to plant them as a blend. All of those mixed together. I was noticing on yalls website that's one of the initiatives that you have is you rent out that native seed drill, which is phenomenal.
• 34:57
  Speaker A: Yes, we do. But our problem is that we do not have a trailer for that. And so we have had, you know, several people reach out to us, but they're too far away for us to get that to them. So we've got to. We're going to have to figure out. We're going to have to have. We're going to figure something out.
• 35:14
  Speaker B: So. So yes, and for several different reasons, we have to have that type of drill. Right. So this using a drill, a no till drill. I think y'all have a hay buster. It's a great brand, great drill.
• 35:26
  Speaker A: Got two that size.
• 35:28
  Speaker B: So the benefit of that is we get good seed soil contact. So that is vital to get good stand establishment. So that drill allows us to do that. But that agitator inside that seed box allows all that blend to stay in suspension. So we have all that seed mixed together and then it stops that fluffy seed from bridging up. So without that just in a regular drill, it bridges up and that seed won't flow through the seed tubes. Another thing those drills has is a picker wheel. So it looks like a little gear, but it turns and it grabs that seed and it throws it down the seed tube. And then so it helps that that fluffy native seed flow stay in suspension, stay mixed together. And so we're getting that blend out correctly. Another key is a lot of our ag drills plant too deep for native seeds. You only want that seed a quarter to a half inch deep. Probably a quarter, which is, you know, those coreopsis, the live part of that seed in there is just so tiny. There's not enough energy when that seed germinates and sprouts to push that up more than a quarter, half an inch. So it takes kind of those specialized drills to be able to have enough down pressure to keep that implement on and in the ground and not go too deep, deep. So that's, that's the value of those drills. It's very important.
• 36:54
  Speaker A: Yeah, they are important and they're just not readily accessible. A lot of people don't necessarily have them. So which is one of the reasons why we try to make those available for people, you know, and especially I think about like, you know, Lacy's places out there towards the Wilson area. And that's a great, you know, place for having one of those drills because there's so many, you know, folks that have small acreages out there that, you know, could benefit from being able to use one of those drills and some Bammer seed.
• 37:30
  Speaker B: That's, that's right. Yeah. And then, and then the biodiversity that comes from all that and the soil health we gain and the water, the water infiltration that happens because of the soil health of structure. We, we capture more, we capture more of our rainfall, make it more effective and then help with the hydrological cycle. And we've got a long ways to go. It'll take a long time to.
• 37:56
  Speaker A: It will, it really will. But you know, I, I hate it when I, when I hear people saying, you know, it's just, it, it'll take too long. It doesn't matter. When I just, oh, makes my stomach hurt because I think, you know, short term solutions may not be, you know, long term solutions, they may not equal long term solution. You know, and what we're doing now, we, we are working on a ply lake restoration project which we're calling Our Legacy is Tomorrow's Water. Because I, our generation is going to be remembered for what we chose to do, you know, because, I mean, I think other people have been aware, but nobody has been as aware as our generation has. And, and it's really up to us to begin to make a change. And even if it, even if it is 200 years from now, you know, that legacy is going to remain.
• 38:48
  Speaker B: Well, you know, Tillery, it's, it's, we're going to have to, in this, in this area, as far as ag production goes, we're going to be forced to make some tough decisions pretty soon. And you're already starting to see that as the Ogallala starts to deplete and we're able to pump less and less, we're going to have to make some decisions and we're going to have to change some, some of our, our ag practices to meet that. And you know, whether it's, whether it's, the generation currently are on the farm or the generation that's going to be next on the farm, somebody's going to have to make a change in practices because they're going to be forced to because they don't have.
• 39:26
  Speaker A: Right, right. And I, yeah, I would love to see us, you know, I feel like that we haven't really Even, I mean, we've got a few people who are really investigating, you know, the economics of what. What else can we do? And that's why I'm so interested in what you did with the Noble Group, because, you know, that. That seems like something that we really need to be having here right now. And I know in Kansas they're doing some of that. I mean, we know that they have taken a feedlot and they'll do 25, you know, miles around that feedlot. What can we do to help, you know, economically where, you know, farmers have to shift a crop, they're going to have to quit pumping by. And then in this one case I'm thinking of in particular, they had to stop. They had to reduce pumping by 25% or that feedlot was. We're literally watching, monitoring that water to decide if they were going to leave or not. And the water came up 30%, you know, and so, I mean, I think we. I think that's a different area. They've got different recharge than we do. I'm not saying that that will happen here, but I do applaud them for making that hard decision, you know, and saying we have to do something and the state coming in and saying we're not going to leave it, you know, up to you, and say, sorry, your loss. Because they know that the, you know, ag is the heartbeat. If ag's not there, there's nothing there. But if there's no water there, there's no ag there.
• 41:04
  Speaker B: Agriculture drives our area and water drives. Drives our agriculture. And for our small communities that we're all so fond of, even Lubbock and Amarillo, I consider small communities. But the others, for them to stay vibrant, we have to start understanding our energy cycles, our nutrient cycles, our water cycles, and biodiversity is the big.
• 41:33
  Speaker A: Yeah, we do. I heard Robert Mace say recently, he's like, man, if you just cut off, you just say to agriculture in this area, stop it right now. No more drilling. He said, you have an economic disaster. You know, you cannot. And so we have to. We've got to find really creative solutions that, you know, make, you know, some. Maybe it's a completely different type of farming, I don't know. But I don't think that there's no solution. I think there's. There's got to be a solution. So I really appreciate you being here today. This has been super fascinating. Tamara and I both learned a lot.
• 42:11
  Speaker B: Yeah, well, thank y'all for having me. It's. It's been really enjoyable. And I and I appreciate what Yalls group is doing and I look forward to collaborating the future. Yeah. Bemer, Seed Net, glc, wherever we can. We'd love. We'd love that. And appreciate what you are doing and appreciate you having us.
• 42:30
  Speaker A: Thanks. Thanks so much. I appreciate it. And thanks, friends, for joining us for another episode of Conservation Stories. We look forward to being with you again next time.