Latest / The BioHub - by Avetix / Episode 75 - Paul Song - CEO of NKGen

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Episode 75 - Paul Song - CEO of NKGen · The BioHub - by Avetix

0:05
Welcome back to another episode of the Bio Hub.
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Today I'm joined by Doctor Paul Song, Chairman and CEO of NK
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Gen. Biotech.
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Paul has LED across biotech from CMO at NK Gen. to Co founding
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Fuse Biotherapeutics And since 2022 he's been driving NK Gen's
0:24
mission to harness natural killer cells through their
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Podiatry SNK platform for neurogenerative diseases and
0:30
cancer. In this episode, we dive into
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his decision to return and lead NK Gen., the science behind the
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SNK platform, the company's recent SPAC merger and NASDAQ
0:41
listing, and his perspective on building resilient biotech
0:44
companies in today's market. It's an absolute pleasure to
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have you, Paul, how are you? Great.
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Thanks for having me. No, honestly a pleasure.
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Let's just start with your journey with NKJN and then what
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inside you about the company's mission and the team?
1:02
So I actually was a practicing oncologist for over 20 years.
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I did always have one foot in the lab.
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So I was able to understand enough in terms of the what the
1:12
brilliant scientists were doing, but also enough to realize that
1:15
I should really focus more on patient care.
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But about 15 years ago, my I lost my own dad to cancer and it
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made me re evaluate the way we were treating disease in general
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and started to learn more about the role the natural killer
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cells play in human health. And was introduced to this
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company that had just launched that had really been focused on
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trying to use the harness the immune system to tackle disease.
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So I joined the company as the chief medical officer, helped
1:44
them initially navigate through the USFDA to get several trials
1:47
up and running in cancer. And that's really how I I first
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became involved with this. But as we went on, started to
1:56
realize that natural killer cells had a lot of utility
1:59
outside of cancer. If any of your listeners were
2:02
able to do a literature search or put in Google natural killer
2:07
cells or weak natural killer cells and correlated with
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disease, you'll find thousands of publications that show that
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the weaker our immune systems are, particularly the natural
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killer cells, the more likely we are to develop everything from
2:20
cancer to autoimmune diseases and such.
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So we set out initially to develop a process where we could
2:26
take anyone's weak deficient natural killer cells, grow them
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and make them very strong and then give them back to patients
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to perhaps treat numerous diseases and improve human
2:36
health. And that's kind of where we are
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right now. Amazing.
2:41
Yeah. And and you left NK Gen. right?
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And then you decided to come back.
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Can you just talk us through that decision and what motivated
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your return? Absolutely.
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So I am an oncologist by training as I mentioned and our
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primary work was using these natural killer cells for cancer,
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but we started to see some early signal.
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We weren't sure why and how, but patients with some
3:05
neurodegenerative diseases were actually showing improvement.
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And I was intrigued really with that aspect and and I remember
3:12
having a discussion with the management team how I thought
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this could be the future. But basically the management
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team had brought in quote industry experts that said that
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using natural killer cells for neurodegenerative disease made
3:29
no sense and we should focus on cancer.
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So in 2021, I left the company but but I didn't have a non
3:38
compete or NDA. So it was still free to try to
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figure out the mechanism of action of why and how NK cells
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might work for neurodegenerative disease.
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And over the course of two years, I I felt like I was
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studying for a PhD in neuroscience.
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There was no prior precedent. There was no ivory tower that
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had been sort of touting this is a potential, but was able to
4:02
come up with a pretty cogent argument and scientific
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rationale of why natural killer cells could affect not just
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Alzheimer's, but other neurodegenerative diseases like
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Parkinson's and Lewy body dementia.
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And ironically, when I figured that out, the founding CEO came
4:21
back to me and asked if I would consider coming back to the
4:23
company. And I said I would only come
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back if we made a neuro the primary focus of the company.
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And he said he agreed you could do whatever you want, just come
4:35
back and run the company. And that's that's kind of how it
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all came back together. That's amazing.
4:40
That's amazing. Your your science and technology
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are pretty innovative as well. So can you just explain the SNK
4:48
platform and the potential on, on both neurodegenerative and on
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oncology as well? Yeah.
4:55
And and first of all, for your viewers who are not familiar
4:58
with what natural killer cells are, you know, within the body,
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you've got basically three different subtypes of blood.
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You got your red blood cells that shuttle oxygen.
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You have your platelets that, you know, stop bleeding.
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And then you have your white blood cells, which are
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considered the immune system. And within the white blood
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cells, the primary cell that people focus on a lot on are T
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cells, right? They're the ones that people
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have engineered car T products. They're the ones that seem to be
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a very essential part of our immune system to fight infection
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and and disease. But little known within that are
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cells called natural killer cells.
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Now natural killer cells represent about four to 15% of
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all the white blood cells in your body, but they actually are
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serve a huge role. So think of a blind person using
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fingers to read Braille. Natural killer cells have 40
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plus receptors that the natural killer cells use police your
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body and they use these receptors as they come across
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something to basically feel whether or not this is normal
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and should be left alone or it's a diseased cell.
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Whether it be a cancer cell, a virally infected cell, or even
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sometimes when your own immune cell goes rogue and is attacking
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your body. Natural killer cells through
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these receptors have the ability to identify them and if they're
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competent and strong enough, they can eliminate them.
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But as we get older or based on lifestyle, our immune cells can
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get quite weak. So we set out to develop a, a, a
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way to get these to grow. Now the challenges that natural
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killer cells are very, very difficult to get to grow.
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So the majority, if not all the other companies in the natural
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killer space are using a universal donor, meaning they
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will screen thousands of samples of cord blood or stem cells and
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figure out which are those sources that they can reliably
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get to grow. A part of that is because if
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they take 100 random strangers and isolate the natural killer
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cells, most of them may be able to get like 30 out of the 100 NK
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cells to grow. What we showed the USFDA is
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whether or not we take cells from heavily pretreated cancer
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patients or healthy subjects, that we can get 100% growth.
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So that's really, I think what sets our technology apart in
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that you take 100 random strangers, we can isolate their
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natural killer cells and get 100% growth.
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But if you have weak and deficient natural killer cells
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and all you're doing is making more weak and deficient natural
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killer cells, we would argue that's not going to be
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biologically beneficial. So not only can we get everyone
7:30
cells to grow, but we can make them more powerful.
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We can take your weak natural killer cell and grow them into
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very, very powerful strong natural killer cells and restore
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sort of the immune integrity. The final part as I mentioned is
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those 40 receptors, right, those finger like projections that NK
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cells use to read the room. What we find is that again, as
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you get older, not only can the cells get weaker, but the degree
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of sensitivity or the degree of expression is also decreased.
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So we grow cells into massive numbers of cells, we greatly
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increase the killing potential of natural killer cells, and
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then we cause a maximum expression of these receptors.
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So when we give these cells back to patients, we haven't
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genetically modified them, but we've optimized them.
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So when we give them back to patients, there's no side
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effects, there's no rejection because we have not genetically
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modified them. And that's how we're able to do
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this and do this in a very, very Safeway.
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And we're really the only company that has been able to
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show that we can take everyone sells and do this for that.
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That's amazing. I love that story.
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Yeah. I mean, like this question is
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really relevant just in today's market.
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But what, what are some of the biggest challenges you've faced
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since inception? And also how, how did you and
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the team overcome them? So again, with regard to how we
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came across this for neuro, I wish I could say I was so smart
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that I was sitting in a room with prominent neuroscientists
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and said I think natural killer cells would work for
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Alzheimer's. What happened was the founder of
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our company's father was sitting in a nursing facility with
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advanced Alzheimer's. He had not gotten out of bed,
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not been able to talk in many, many years.
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And this was pre COVID. And the founder of our company
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said to me, do you think it would be OK if we gave him some
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boosted natural killer cells? Not thinking it would improve
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his Alzheimer's, but really thinking that if we boosted his
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immune system, it would prevent him from getting an infection.
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So even before COVID, nursing homes were kind of like daycare
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centers that, you know, one kid get sick and they all get sick,
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1 senior get sick. And the amount of pneumonia or
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flu that spread was quite contagious.
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So he felt if I could boost my father's immune system, perhaps
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I would make him less susceptible, right?
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Because he wasn't getting out of bed and doing things.
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So we went ahead and took his blood and made some cells and
10:00
gave it back to him, thinking that this would just reduce his
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infect infection risk. But what happened was shortly
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thereafter, the founding CEO said to me, you're not going to
10:10
believe this, but my father's talking to me and I said, well,
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is he making sense? He said, yes, not only is he
10:15
talking to me, he's able to articulate what he's watching on
10:19
TV. And not only that, he's able to
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now sit up in bed. He said, can you see if there's
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any scientific rationale why are NK cells might work in neuro and
10:31
in Alzheimer's specifically? So-called some leading experts,
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called some friends that I went to medical school with and I
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said, hey, do you know if there's any rationale and all?
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They came back and said, no, it doesn't make any sense.
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There's no precedent or publications.
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It was probably just a coincidence.
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So just kind of said, oh, it's a coincidence.
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Left it at that. About six months later, one of
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our employees came to me and said that there was a family
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member for which they were raising money for a GoFundMe
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page. And this was a young man, only
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38 years old, who was in Hospice with advanced Alzheimer's.
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At the age of 34. He had been working as a
11:12
management consultant somewhere in the San Francisco Bay Area,
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started to act erratically, started to get lost on his way
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to work. And then he ended up at UCSF
11:21
Medical Center and was found to have this rare genetic mutation
11:25
called Peace N1, which guaranteed before the age of 50
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he would have full blown Alzheimer's disease.
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So when we met him, it was four years later and he was no longer
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able to walk, talk or feed himself and required 24 hour
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care. And the the family, because it's
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very expensive in the United States to treat such patients,
11:45
had to raise money for this. So I reached out to the family
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and I said, you know, I don't know if this is going to work.
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We had this one instance. Maybe it was coincidence, but we
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know our treatment's safe. Might you be willing interested
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in US making this available And the family said yes, we're
12:03
desperate. So we were able to get
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compassionate use approval. We took his blood and we started
12:09
to treat him. And lo and behold, he went from
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somebody who could not walk, talk or feed himself to doing
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all those things like to the point where the, and I actually
12:18
had the head of Alzheimer's at UCLA, Doctor Minguo
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independently see and follow this patient.
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And I remember after a few doses, she went back to see him
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and, and doctor will call me and she said, what, what did you do
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to this guy? This is unprecedented.
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We never see anyone this advance ever show any improvement.
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But still at that time, we didn't understand the mechanism
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of action. And then right after that we
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decided, well, let's, let's try it on one more.
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So we tried a more conventional Alzheimer's patient from New
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York, same thing. She was not able to remember her
12:51
kids name. She could no longer walk, talk
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or feed herself. And she was able to do those
12:55
things. So based on all of that, I
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really felt like there was something there, but at the time
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the the founding CEO was talking to other people, industry
13:07
experts, and they all said, no, no, this doesn't make sense.
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And that's when they decided to drop it.
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And that's where I realized it was time for for me to go.
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So I would say the biggest challenge during the period of
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time is even though I was able to put a cogent argument and
13:21
scientific rationale together that satisfied the USFDA enough
13:26
to give us an Ind approval to start a clinical trial, the
13:32
industry, the the code establishment all thought this
13:36
was nonsense. I got a lot of responses like
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it's too good to be true. It's placebo effect.
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Look, you're an oncologist, stay in your lane.
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You don't know what you're talking about.
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But because I was actually seeing patients improve in
13:52
unprecedented manner, I couldn't dismiss it.
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So I, I felt like I needed to, to, to come back and try to
14:03
fight for this because I knew if I didn't, nobody else would and
14:06
this would have died years ago. So came back, got the Ind, we
14:11
started a pilot trial. We were able to draw samples of
14:16
patients cerebral spinal fluid before our first dose, 4 after 4
14:20
doses and then three months later.
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And we were able to show one that when we take your cells and
14:27
put it through our proprietary process and we give them back to
14:30
you through a simple IV that they do indeed get into the
14:33
brain. And not only are they getting
14:35
into the brain to improve protein levels.
14:38
So not just amyloid, but we showed that it also improves
14:41
alpha synuclein proteins were true associated with also, I
14:43
mean Parkinson's disease and Tau proteins that are associated
14:47
with the front of temporal dementia.
14:49
But we also showed we reduce neuro inflammation and more
14:53
importantly, we were showing that patients were actually
14:55
getting better. So as you know, the current
14:58
treatments for Alzheimer's are one, the approved drugs are only
15:02
for the earliest stage, what we call the mild cognitive
15:04
impairment. And all they're doing is slowing
15:07
the level of decline. Nobody stops getting worse or
15:09
anyone gets better, but we're showing from the time again that
15:12
the majority of patients are actually either stopping the
15:15
decline entirely or actually really getting better.
15:18
And we presented data at the most recent International
15:22
Alzheimer's Meeting in Vienna in June that showed that we've been
15:30
able to convert patients from moderate stage Alzheimer's to
15:32
mild. Like we're actually showing
15:34
patients had meaningful improvement as well as
15:39
corresponding biomarker improvement, reduction in
15:41
protein levels or improvement of protein levels, improvement in
15:46
neuroinflammatory markers. So we went from nobody believing
15:50
in what we were doing, everyone telling me to stay in my lane to
15:54
now getting major sites wanting to be part of our trial.
15:58
The FDA looked at our data and felt convinced that there was
16:01
something there. And they give us a fast track
16:03
designation now for our work in moderate stage disease.
16:08
And now we're actually treating other indications front of
16:11
temporal dementia, Parkinson's disease.
16:15
And so it's been a long struggle, but we're, we're
16:19
finally to the point where people don't view us as, as you
16:24
know. Nonsense.
16:27
Yeah. Wow, that's such an incredible
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story. Yeah.
16:32
And, and I'll tell you it it, it's only because it's easy to
16:37
get dejected. It's easy to be want to give up,
16:44
but the, it's because when you meet the families of these
16:48
patients, not to mention the patients, and you see the
16:50
profound impact it's had on them, right?
16:52
So think of like if you have a loved one who has Alzheimer's
16:55
disease who is no longer capable of caring for themselves, you
16:59
either have to have the means to hire somebody or a lot of these
17:02
people take time off. They, they quit their jobs to
17:05
take care of their loved ones. And think about if you've had to
17:08
physically pick up your loved one out of a chair to take him
17:11
to the bathroom. But now they can stand up and
17:13
walk to the bathroom by themselves, and they can follow
17:15
commands. When you meet these families and
17:20
they tell you how it's had a profound impact.
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It's what It's what drives me and keeps me going.
17:29
Yeah. Even when, you know, the medical
17:32
community or the VC community just basically shits on you.
17:37
You just got to keep moving along.
17:39
Yeah. Kind of moving on to that, like
17:42
VC community slash financing, you guys went through a SPAC
17:46
merger and listed on NASDAQ that way.
17:49
Can you just walk us through that decision process because
17:54
it's not as conventional, right? Like what?
17:56
What was the thinking behind it? So remember I mentioned that I
18:01
left the company and then the founding CEO asked me to come
18:05
back. And when he asked me to come
18:08
back, it was because he was about to close the doors on the
18:12
US entity because it was out of money.
18:15
Over the period of time when I was away, they had adopted
18:20
several plans and strategies that just didn't pan out.
18:24
So really it was last ditch effort when he asked me to come
18:28
back. So when I came back, the company
18:31
was in such bad financial straits there.
18:36
There wasn't, we weren't even sure if we're going to make it
18:38
another few months. And so I was given the
18:42
opportunity to raise some capital through a SPAC merger
18:47
and because to do a traditional IPO was going to be too hard.
18:50
If it was up to me, I would have remained wanted to remain in
18:55
private and independent as long as possible.
18:58
But we decided to go to the markets with the SPAC to and we
19:04
were able to raise about $25 million and the Korean parent
19:08
company had actually agreed to give us 25,000,000 as a backstop
19:12
as well. So I figured that would give it
19:14
give us enough money to execute till we reached our milestones.
19:20
Unfortunately, about three months after we went to the
19:24
NASDAQ, the Korean parent company had imploded.
19:29
So the Korean parent company was traded on the Korean Stock
19:31
Exchange, the Kozdak, and the founding CEO and the company had
19:37
some issues. So they went, they got delisted
19:42
and then subsequently declared bankruptcy about 5 months after
19:46
we went to the NASDAQ. And because of the Korean parent
19:50
company going bankrupt and all the issues there, everyone
19:54
assumed there was something wrong with their science.
19:56
So it caused a massive sell off of our shares on the NASDAQ
20:01
because a lot of investors in our company also had shares in
20:04
the Korean company. And it, it almost killed us
20:09
because not only did it 'cause our stock price to plummet, it
20:13
caused people to question whether or not the science was
20:15
real. And then remember, the Korean
20:18
parent company had agreed to give us a $25 million backstop.
20:22
They'd only given us 10 million before they went under.
20:24
So. We were had a big cash
20:27
shortfall. We couldn't raise any money
20:29
because of the mess of the Korean parent company and people
20:34
were questioning our science. So for the next year we
20:38
basically almost closed the doors several times.
20:40
I went almost a year without a salary.
20:42
I still haven't really taken one.
20:44
I ended up getting my mom, my sister, my mother-in-law to put
20:51
money into the company just to make payroll.
20:56
But the thing that we continue to do during this really
20:59
difficult, tumultuous time was execute clinically and generate
21:03
real compelling data. So it was a perfect storm of
21:07
everything that could go wrong. So that was our quote path to
21:11
the NASDAQ. But because of the Korean parent
21:14
company overhang and then the drop, we went fell below the $35
21:19
million market cap and then we got delisted from the NASDAQ.
21:23
We've been on the OTC exchange. But through all this process,
21:29
because our science has remained strong, I've now been able to
21:33
raise the money to acquire the Korean parent company out of
21:37
bankruptcy, which will be announcing very soon.
21:41
And then we plan to relist or uplift back to the NASDAQ or the
21:48
NYSE probably before the end of the year.
21:52
So we literally have emerged from the ashes due to no fault
21:58
of our own really the Korean parent company causing this.
22:01
And now we're not only going to be taking over the Korean parent
22:04
company out of bankruptcy, we'll consolidate all the IP, the
22:08
global rights, everything. So it's it's it was no small
22:13
feat. I can't even imagine like the
22:16
stress and resilience that you guys have, but like
22:20
congratulations. Like it's it's one hell of a
22:23
story and like. It's really a really a testament
22:28
to the dedicated team that I have.
22:32
We had to lay off 75% of our staff, but the 25% that have
22:35
stayed with us are they believe in what we're doing.
22:39
They, they could have taken jobs elsewhere.
22:42
You know, why stick around a company where you don't know if
22:44
you're going to make it next month?
22:46
But they, they see the profound impact that we're having and
22:49
they want to stay. And they also, I think see that
22:52
myself and some of our management have gone without
22:57
paychecks for, as they say, almost a year.
23:00
And then I think also the fact that I was willing to get my own
23:06
family to put money in just to keep the company going last,
23:11
Lastly, I'll just say that in those two years that I had left
23:13
the company, I went and started another company in the cancer
23:19
space and we ended up selling that company a few months ago.
23:23
I can't divulge the company that bought a shed as per the
23:25
agreement, but the money that I made from that I immediately
23:30
rolled into our company now. And I think it again, it just
23:34
showed that how much I believe in the science and I and then it
23:37
started to open the gates for people to invest in us.
23:42
So I guess the point being that left to my own devices, if I
23:45
start my own company, I know what I'm doing and I can quickly
23:49
turn it around. But inheriting a company that
23:52
was run in a in a very different way, it's been the biggest
24:00
challenge of my life. But again, the only reason I
24:04
have come back is because I see what it can actually do to
24:07
patients. And I knew that if I didn't
24:10
fight for it, nobody would. But now we're at a point where
24:16
the, the, the patience and the profound changes we're seeing
24:20
is, is it's so rewarding. And that, that's why I that's
24:24
what fueled me to keep. Going, yeah, I mean, it's kind
24:28
of less my speech like the yeah, what you've gone through to to
24:32
get to this point. And like you can, you can see
24:35
where it's going to go now. And it, it, it, it shows, right?
24:39
Like the, the science will always come through, you know,
24:44
tough market, really like unfortunate circumstances.
24:49
Like I can't take my hat off to you enough in, in terms of what
24:52
you've done. Like, it's incredible.
24:56
Well, again, we had to set a new paradigm, right?
24:58
Because the whole Alzheimer's space is focused on just
25:02
removing amyloid proteins. What we found is that when we
25:07
we've all evolved with an immune system that technically can keep
25:12
things in check. But as I mentioned, if we get
25:15
older and our immune system start to get weaker or lifestyle
25:19
changes, maybe they start to lose their ability to police.
25:23
And This is why, you know, people develop cancer and all
25:25
sorts of things. But what we found is when we
25:29
take your NK cells and we grow them into billions of highly
25:34
enhanced active NK cells, we upregulate A receptor that
25:40
allows them to get into the brain.
25:41
And once they get into the brain, we've shown that they can
25:44
help to not only digest and remove amyloid proteins, which
25:49
is what majority of the drugs are focused on, but also alpha
25:53
synuclein proteins, which you traditionally see in elevated
25:57
and Parkinson's or Lewy body dementia, and Tau proteins,
26:00
which is what you see in front of temporal dementia.
26:02
So we're able to show that your own immune system cells can get
26:06
up there and reduce those levels or improve those levels in, in
26:09
your CSF. And then the final part is as
26:13
these proteins accumulating the brain, your other cells, the T
26:16
cells get up into the brain. And in their attempt to try to
26:20
remove the proteins, T cells only have one receptor, so they
26:24
can't distinguish between normal healthy tissue and disease.
26:28
So they cause a lot of collateral inflammation and
26:30
damage. So one of the things what we
26:33
have found is if you just remove the protein, but leave the
26:37
inflammation and damage behind, this is one of the reasons we
26:39
believe nobody's getting better with the current regimen.
26:42
We found that your own immune systems or are natural killer
26:46
cells all have the ability to get up into the brain to remove
26:50
proteins, but also start to clean up those T cells that are
26:53
attacking your own body. And in doing so, they reduce the
26:56
inflammation and and the neuronal damage.
27:00
So it's pretty, it's a new paradigm and it's pretty cool
27:04
that this is not a drug. It's basically unleashing what
27:08
our God-given immune systems at one point had the ability to do.
27:13
And so that's what's great about it.
27:15
There's no side effects with our treatment.
27:18
And our goal is right now we're taking patients who actually
27:22
have Alzheimer's and making them improved dramatically, right?
27:27
So as I mentioned, moderate, the reason we focused on moderate
27:30
stage Alzheimer's disease, those, these are patients that
27:32
are no longer capable of independent living.
27:34
They leave the stove on or they walk somewhere and then they get
27:38
lost, right? So they always need somebody to
27:39
watch them. And we found if we could improve
27:42
them from moderate to mild, not only would that improve their
27:45
lifestyle, but it would improve their loved ones lifestyle.
27:48
So now maybe you don't need to watch your loved one all the
27:50
time. You can go back to work or you
27:53
can leave the house for several hours to take care of what you
27:55
need to do and how transformative this could be,
27:58
not only for the patients, but for the loved ones.
28:02
And it represents about a third of all patients.
28:04
So once we. So right now we have a
28:06
randomized trial where we're giving patients placebo or our
28:09
cell therapy and we really expect to see real significant
28:14
differences between the two groups in the middle of next
28:17
year and apply for accelerated approval.
28:19
But if we but once we and we're seeing a time and time again of
28:23
patients improving, but once we show that, then the idea is to
28:26
use it even earlier stage. So if you have the biomarker,
28:31
maybe you don't have to mention it yet.
28:32
Now they know they can detect these biomarkers 10 years before
28:35
you develop dementia. Imagine if we just give you a
28:38
big bolus of your own immune cells that reduces all that
28:43
before you ever develop symptoms.
28:44
We can, Our goal is to prevent people from ever getting to that
28:47
point and to do it safely because it's doesn't cause any
28:51
brain bleed or anything like these other therapies.
28:53
And that's where we believe the transformative nature of our
28:57
therapy will be, not just in treating patients with disease,
29:01
but giving everyone, it's going in for like an oil change, you
29:04
know, a couple times a year where we just give you these
29:06
enhanced NK cells to boost and tackle, you know, disease.
29:11
That's where we expect to have a real profound impact long term.
29:15
Yeah, I mean the mission you guys on is amazing.
29:19
I actually had a the next couple of questions about current
29:22
market and leadership, but they they don't feel as relevant like
29:25
after the you know the the stuff we've just been talking about.
29:29
I would like to ask you one last question though, which was what
29:33
advice would you give to to the younger people coming into this
29:37
market and aspiring leaders for the for the future in biotech?
29:42
Well, one is I would say that if you're working on something that
29:48
has never been done before, don't get discouraged when
29:52
people don't understand it. And, and really be agnostic
29:58
versus prejudice, which I believe are medical community
30:04
and the biotech community is, I find the biotech community is if
30:08
one ivory tower place, like if it was embedded at Sanford or
30:12
Oxford or Upenn and everyone immediately jumps on it, even if
30:15
you look at some of those treatments never make it right.
30:18
But if it's somebody else that comes from a lesser known place
30:22
or didn't come from the pedigree of the, of the, you know, a lab
30:27
at Oxford, that all of all of a sudden the scrutiny in the bar,
30:31
scrutiny's increased and the bar is much higher in terms of what
30:34
you have to show before you even get funding.
30:37
But I would say if you really find something that, that you
30:41
believe in your heart, don't, don't get discouraged and, and
30:45
fight for it. That would be the first thing.
30:47
The second thing is that the the establishment is all a bunch of
30:54
like even the Alzheimer's space, billions of the dollars have all
30:57
been focused on the amyloid hypothesis and no willingness to
31:02
look at any other ways to treat this.
31:06
In fact, you know, there was an article by Stat magazine that
31:10
called it a, a cabal of how they really discouraged and squashed
31:17
other alternative thinking. And I think that that's
31:21
dangerous for us as a society. And I believe that you we have
31:26
to keep fighting for it. So again, it would have been
31:28
very easy for me to be just disgusted with the
31:31
establishment. Maybe if I was a young scientist
31:33
and had not seen an actual human respond, I would have quit this
31:37
a long time ago. But I also, so I would just tell
31:40
people to really fight for what you believe in.
31:42
Set, set a new precedent, set new standards, set new
31:46
scientific discoveries. Don't be a follower.
31:51
I I, I feel like you know this is the time to really come
31:57
forward with your new fresh ideas.
32:00
Yeah, I'd love to leave the podcast there.
32:02
That was so powerful. Thank you so much for coming on,
32:05
Paul. Thank you for having me and I
32:08
really appreciate the work you guys are doing too.
32:10
Yeah, thank you so much. And everyone please like and
32:13
subscribe to the Bio Hub. Thanks again, Paul.
32:16
Thank you.