Latest / The Hugh Hewitt Show: Highly Concentrated / Should the president sign the MOU with Iran?

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Should the president sign the MOU with Iran? · The Hugh Hewitt Show: Highly Concentrated

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  Speaker 1: Welcome to today's podcast sponsored by Hillsdale College, All Things
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  Speaker 2: I'm Dowett.
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  Speaker 1: The big news today, of course, is the MU set
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  Speaker 1: to be signed later this week. President Trump arrived at
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  Speaker 1: the G seven in France, went into a gaggle with
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  Speaker 1: President Macrone of France, said a lot about the deal.
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  Speaker 1: Let's start there, cut number two, the President sitting in
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  Speaker 1: with Emmanuel mccron.
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  Speaker 3: Emmanuel has been a special friend of mine. You've had
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  Speaker 3: a fantastic relationship. We've worked doing mini deals together. I'm
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  Speaker 3: very happy to.
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  Speaker 4: The same.
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  Speaker 3: Career signed the hills sign and the strain has already
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  Speaker 3: partially opened.
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  Speaker 4: As you know, they're doing a little hunting.
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  Speaker 3: For a couple of times mines they've already found, but
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  Speaker 3: it's essentially ships are starting to go out now. On
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  Speaker 3: Friday it will be completely open. We got along very
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  Speaker 3: well with Iran it's a different set of leaders. As
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  Speaker 3: you know, the first set is gone, the second set
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  Speaker 3: is gone, and we found the third set to be
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  Speaker 3: very smart, strong, very smart. But we ended up making
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  Speaker 3: a deal. I felt badly that we had to go
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  Speaker 3: back on the attack for two nights, and I thought
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  Speaker 3: of third but we made it before that happened. But
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  Speaker 3: I think a lot of great things are going to
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  Speaker 3: happen in the Middle East right now. And very importantly,
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  Speaker 3: the oil is plummeting down and the stock market is
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  Speaker 3: shooting up like a rocket.
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  Speaker 4: Today.
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  Speaker 3: It's like record kind of numbers and the oil is
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  Speaker 3: taking its biggest plunge, and we're into the load numbers.
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  Speaker 4: Not quite back yet.
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  Speaker 3: Kevin to extend getting clucks to the numbers we were
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  Speaker 3: before it all started. And the main thing is that
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  Speaker 3: RN will not have a depulary weapon. They fully agreed
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  Speaker 3: to that with the strong policing bearers. And they won't
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  Speaker 3: have a nuclear weapon, which is what it was all about,
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  Speaker 3: because it probably would have used it if they had it.
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  Speaker 3: So we had two big moments when they terminated the JCPOA.
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  Speaker 3: That was the Obama deal, the Bronco say Obama deal,
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  Speaker 3: and when I terminated that It was very point because
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  Speaker 3: it was the road to a nubray weapon. It was
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  Speaker 3: a horrible deal for the United States. It was a
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  Speaker 3: deal where billions of dollars was given to a rent.
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  Speaker 3: It was a deal with one point seven billion in
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  Speaker 3: cash was put on a Boeing seven well nine seven
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  Speaker 3: seven fifty seven against it, But it was put on
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  Speaker 3: a big, beautiful Boeing seven fifty seven. They needed a
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  Speaker 3: Bowing seven forty seven, to be honest with you, because
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  Speaker 3: it was a lot of kids.
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  Speaker 4: One point seven billion was sticking.
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  Speaker 3: Out of the banks and given to a ran and
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  Speaker 3: on top of that, tens opinions of dollars we spent.
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  Speaker 4: So they tried to bribe them to make a deal.
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  Speaker 4: That didn't work. It never works.
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  Speaker 3: And we've done a great job and hopefully it's gonna
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  Speaker 3: be a good relationship and we're gonna get involved, and
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  Speaker 3: if we don't, we go back to where we started.
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  Speaker 3: But I don't know think it's going to be necessary.
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  Speaker 3: The Iran deal that we made is going to bring
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  Speaker 3: a lot of success to the world because the oil
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  Speaker 3: was really clogged up there for a while. They would
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  Speaker 3: call me on occasion say come on, please, let's call
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  Speaker 3: it the oil prices, but the oil is coming way.
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  Speaker 4: It's not very honored by it. I want to thank
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  Speaker 4: you for ya. You've always been out and it's an.
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  Speaker 3: Honor you with you. We had a very good conversation
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  Speaker 3: yesterday week President.
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  Speaker 4: Zelenski and President Putin, and I see.
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  Speaker 3: Maybe we can do something that I really do. I
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  Speaker 3: think they're both open to it. So you know, now
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  Speaker 3: that this is finished, we're going to be focusing on that.
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  Speaker 3: Let's see we can get that one done. Twenty five
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  Speaker 3: thousand people a month of dying mostly sells in.
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  Speaker 4: That shouldn't happen.
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  Speaker 3: But I had two very good conversations yesterday.
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  Speaker 4: We'll be talking about it.
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  Speaker 1: Okay, So oil is at eighty dollars and eighty eight
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  Speaker 1: cents a barrel West Texas crewed right now, so it
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  Speaker 1: is dropped down I almost five percent. Today. President promised
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  Speaker 1: that we will see the MLU soon. But listen closely
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  Speaker 1: to this cut number three, and your president, what.
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  Speaker 5: The type of the m of you be released?
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  Speaker 4: I think pretty soon, I would say.
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  Speaker 3: I mean I wanted to be released because it's a
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  Speaker 3: very powerful documentary. It's not like the Obama document, which
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  Speaker 3: is a terrible document. This is a very powerful document
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  Speaker 3: and I wanted to be released, so probably pretty soon.
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  Speaker 3: I would say after some time after Friday, because the
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  Speaker 3: straight open. It's open now, but it opens completely. We
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  Speaker 3: have all the minds knocked out of them for the
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  Speaker 3: most but we have a lot of ladies right now already.
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  Speaker 3: So I think I think sometime, I think sometime in
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  Speaker 3: the very interviews here.
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  Speaker 1: It would be better before it was signed if the
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  Speaker 1: American public had a chance to see it. In critiquet
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  Speaker 1: cut number four about when sanctions relief is coming.
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  Speaker 3: Because the president of the deal where you can do
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  Speaker 3: well anything and relief or Iran, when would that.
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  Speaker 4: Going to it does and well, they have to.
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  Speaker 3: It's really a behavioral thing. If they do what they're
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  Speaker 3: supposed to do, that starts taking effect.
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  Speaker 2: And then cut number five Iran and has the law.
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  Speaker 3: We're too up here from a few countries. You'd be
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  Speaker 3: a great country to do it because you never know
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  Speaker 3: what happens. But I think it's going to be open,
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  Speaker 3: and I think it's going to be free sailing. We
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  Speaker 3: do want to see if we can straight out to
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  Speaker 3: eleven eleven thing because it just seems to just never end.
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  Speaker 3: And that's a mini version of what we were doing.
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  Speaker 3: But and it should not be tough. Should not be tough.
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  Speaker 4: So as Bullow, we have to we have to.
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  Speaker 5: Have a talk with them.
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  Speaker 1: Benny got a question about the j C p o
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  Speaker 1: A and he reiterated why it was such a terrible deal.
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  Speaker 3: Cut number six one point seven billion was taken out
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  Speaker 3: of the banks and given to Iran, and on top
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  Speaker 3: of that, tens of billions of those as.
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  Speaker 4: So they tried to bribe them to make a deal
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  Speaker 4: that didn't work.
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  Speaker 5: It never works.
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  Speaker 3: And we've done a great job and hopefully it's going
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  Speaker 3: to be a good relationship and we're gonna get along,
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  Speaker 3: and if we don't, we go back to where we started.
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  Speaker 4: But I don't think it's going to be necessary.
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  Speaker 3: The the Iran deal that we made is going to
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  Speaker 3: bring a lot of a lot of success to the
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  Speaker 3: world because the oil was really blogged up there for
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  Speaker 3: a while.
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  Speaker 4: They would call me an accasion, say come on, please.
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  Speaker 2: We've heard that part. Let's go.
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  Speaker 1: Then, Vice President advance on Good Morning America this morning,
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  Speaker 1: Oh cure, make it Good Morning America with George Stephanopolos
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  Speaker 1: this morning.
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  Speaker 6: Cut number eight, Well, we already signed the deal digitally
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  Speaker 6: yesterday and there's been no money released, and that won't change. George, again,
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  Speaker 6: this is a performance based thing. If we see the
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  Speaker 6: Iranians making, for example, taking action to eliminate their stockpile
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  Speaker 6: of enriched material, then yes, sanctions relief will follow. If
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  Speaker 6: we see the Iranians taking action to allow the kind
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  Speaker 6: of verification regime that we need to see to know
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  Speaker 6: that they're not going to build a nuclear weapon, yes
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  Speaker 6: sanctions really really will follow. So this is really about
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  Speaker 6: walking down a pathway here where the Iranians will be
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  Speaker 6: welcomed into the world economy if they do the right thing.
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  Speaker 6: And George, we have to remember, their economy is fundamentally destroyed.
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  Speaker 6: Their nuclear program is fundamentally destroyed. If they don't do
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  Speaker 6: the right things, if they don't allow the verification regime,
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  Speaker 6: they're never going to have the money to rebuild their
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  Speaker 6: nuclear program to begin with. So this is fundamentally a
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  Speaker 6: win win for the American people. What the President has
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  Speaker 6: said is he wants it to be a win for
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  Speaker 6: the Iranian people as well, but that requires some real
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  Speaker 6: trust building and some real positive conduct from the Iranian
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  Speaker 6: political system.
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  Speaker 7: We're going to see if that happens.
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  Speaker 2: If it does.
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  Speaker 6: They're absolutely going to find the President of the United
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  Speaker 6: States and the entire team a willing partner to make
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  Speaker 6: their country more prosperous.
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  Speaker 1: The Vice President Talctor Gail King on the CBS's Early
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  Speaker 1: Show con number nine.
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  Speaker 6: Yeah, Gail, as you know with sometimes with these agreements,
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  Speaker 6: there are some diplomatic protocols, some technical things to work out.
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  Speaker 6: But we plan to release the full text this week.
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  Speaker 6: We want the American people to see it. But we've
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  Speaker 6: also seen, of course, some misreporting about what's actually in
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  Speaker 6: the agreement.
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  Speaker 8: We've seen some accurate reporting about what's in the agreement.
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  Speaker 6: I think the most important thing for the American people
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  Speaker 6: to appreciate is that what this agreement does is really twofold.
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  Speaker 6: On the one hand, sure is that Iran will never
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  Speaker 6: have a nuclear weapon, while simultaneously opening the strait of
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  Speaker 6: horror moves. You already see oil prices from a high
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  Speaker 6: of one hundred and twenty six dollars a barrel down
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  Speaker 6: to about eighty dollars a barrel today. That's a lot
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  Speaker 6: of progress, but it also Gale fundamentally extends a hand
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  Speaker 6: to Iran and says, look, if you guys are willing
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  Speaker 6: to honor your obligations, if you're allowed, if you're willing
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  Speaker 6: to allow real inspections of your nuclear program, then we
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  Speaker 6: will welcome you back into the world economy. I think
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  Speaker 6: what the President of the United States wants to do
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  Speaker 6: is turn over a leaf of forty seven years of
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  Speaker 6: a failed relationship between the United States and Iran. But
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  Speaker 6: that requires the Iranians to actually honor it there into
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  Speaker 6: the bargain. So when people say that billions of dollars
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  Speaker 6: of assets will be released, that's not true. What is
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  Speaker 6: true is that Iran will have a much better and
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  Speaker 6: much more prosperous future if they meet the obligations they
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  Speaker 6: make in this agreement. Well, of course, see that's one
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  Speaker 6: of the things we're going to work out in the
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  Speaker 6: technical talks that will follow the official signing on Friday.
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  Speaker 1: Then go to cut ten when he talks on CBS
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  Speaker 1: ED Okay, cut number ten, walk through.
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  Speaker 8: Some of this.
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  Speaker 9: The Iranians are saying that they're going to have access
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  Speaker 9: to a three hundred billion dollar reconstruction fun.
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  Speaker 2: True or false.
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  Speaker 6: Well, and that's the sort of thing they could have
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  Speaker 6: access to funded by the Gulf Coast Coalition, so long
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  Speaker 6: as they honor their into the obligation.
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  Speaker 8: I think that one of the things you're going.
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  Speaker 6: To see ed and people have to be skeptical of this,
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  Speaker 6: is that the hardliners in the Iranian system will overemphasize
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  Speaker 6: the benefits that Iran gets while underemphasizing all the things
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  Speaker 6: that they have to concede and all the things they have.
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  Speaker 8: To provide in order to get these benefits.
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  Speaker 6: So we absolutely are open to the Gulf coast countries
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  Speaker 6: investing in the reconstruction.
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  Speaker 8: Of Iran, but only if Iran in is their nuclear program.
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  Speaker 2: And that's that's where we are.
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  Speaker 1: As of.
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  Speaker 2: Twenty five these comeston on Ugling. Welcome back to America.
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  Speaker 1: I'm Hugh Hughitt, joined now by doctor Michael Oran, former
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  Speaker 1: Israeli ambassador to the United States, former professor at Princeton
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  Speaker 1: and elsewhere, and noted historian, a pre eminent reputation on
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  Speaker 1: the Middle East. So, doctor Oran, what's your assessment of
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  Speaker 1: the MLU the text of which.
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  Speaker 9: We do not have. Well, good evening, Hugh, always good
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  Speaker 9: to be with you. I'm speaking from Israel, and Israel
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  Speaker 9: the mood is very very.
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  Speaker 5: Somber here this evening.
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  Speaker 9: The sense of trepidation, excuse me, disappointment, the war that
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  Speaker 9: was begun just over three months ago kind of inspired.
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  Speaker 5: To achieve basic goals for Israel security.
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  Speaker 9: In these goals were in cooperation, close cooperation with the
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  Speaker 9: United States, that is, ending Iran's nuclear program, removing its
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  Speaker 9: nuclear stockpile or mitch uranium, ending its ballistic inter continal
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  Speaker 9: ballistic system missile system, and stopping Iranian support for terrorist
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  Speaker 9: groups around the region, particularly because Balahamas.
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  Speaker 5: And the Hoodies tonight.
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  Speaker 9: From what we can gather, and again I think that
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  Speaker 9: Jadvans is right, You've got to be careful with looking
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  Speaker 9: at what's in the press.
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  Speaker 5: Much of it it may be inaccurate.
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  Speaker 9: But what we can tell is so far that maybe
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  Speaker 9: maybe there may be a curtailment of Iran's nuclear program,
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  Speaker 9: maybe maybe a solution for the nuclear stockpile.
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  Speaker 2: We don't know.
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  Speaker 9: They have sixty days of negotiations to follow up, but
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  Speaker 9: no really no solution for the intercontinental ballistic missile system.
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  Speaker 9: And keep in mind, you know, as you know in
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  Speaker 9: this house, we were running thirty times a day into
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  Speaker 9: a bomb shelter from those missiles that could take down
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  Speaker 9: not just a building, but an entire neighborhood, and no
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  Speaker 9: end to support around in support for terrorist organizations, and
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  Speaker 9: one of them, Here's Bella, continues to shell for the
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  Speaker 9: northern part of this country, the Galilee tonight as we speak.
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  Speaker 5: So these are very serious concerns for the state of Israel.
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  Speaker 9: We believe that yes, Iran will not exact tolls from
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  Speaker 9: ships traversing this straight of her moves, but Iran, as
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  Speaker 9: according to this agreement, will remain in control of those straits.
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  Speaker 9: And I think most broadly, Hughes, there's a sense that
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  Speaker 9: American power, which is so important for Israel security, for
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  Speaker 9: the stability security of the Middle East, has been impaired,
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  Speaker 9: and that that power was the basically form the basis
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  Speaker 9: of the Abraham Accords. And we don't know what countries
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  Speaker 9: in the middleaset would join the Abraham Accords in the future,
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  Speaker 9: and that many Middle Eastern countries.
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  Speaker 5: We fear, will now seek a rap ushmonk with Tehran.
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  Speaker 2: So, Ambassador orn.
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  Speaker 1: I see it a little bit differently, But I'm cautioned
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  Speaker 1: by the fact a senior administration official had a conversation
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  Speaker 1: with many journalists on Friday morning and he assured us
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  Speaker 1: of a number of things, and one of those things
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  Speaker 1: was that they will not control this Strait contra what
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  Speaker 1: you just said. And the other is that Israel's right
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  Speaker 1: to respond to any attack is unlimited. Is that you're
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  Speaker 1: understanding on the second, because it's clearly not you're understanding
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  Speaker 1: on the first.
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  Speaker 5: Well, it depends i you to find control.
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  Speaker 9: Will they exercise that control or will they remain defactive
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  Speaker 9: in control of the straits of hermus And at such
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  Speaker 9: a time in the future when they have the ballistic
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  Speaker 9: missile capabilities and they've restored their economy through the sanctions relief,
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  Speaker 9: through the unfreezing of frozen assets for Iranian assets, they
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  Speaker 9: could exercise control of the Strait once again. That again theoretical,
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  Speaker 9: but we see no forfeiture so far of Iran of
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  Speaker 9: its control the straits.
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  Speaker 5: Yes, they may say they're not going to accept tolls,
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  Speaker 5: but the reality, the prewar reality in the Strait would
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  Speaker 5: not be restored.
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  Speaker 9: As for Israel's relationship, its ability to defend itself against
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  Speaker 9: his Bullah. And this is crucial because there are many
• 14:52
  Speaker 9: reports saying that Lebanon was part of this deal, that
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  Speaker 9: the Iranians had conditioned the conclusion of the deal on
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  Speaker 9: America restraining or tying Israel's hands and preventing.
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  Speaker 5: Us from responding to his ballah terror.
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  Speaker 9: That may be true when I understand now the agreement
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  Speaker 9: recognize Israel's right to defend itself against his Ballah, but
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  Speaker 9: defendant sell how defendants of only along the border area
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  Speaker 9: or can we strike at his bula's headquarters in the
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  Speaker 9: Dahia neighborhood of Beirut as we have in the past,
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  Speaker 9: the entire northern part of this country. He remains uninhabited,
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  Speaker 9: and that is not a strategic threat to this country.
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  Speaker 9: It is a strict It is an existential threat to
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  Speaker 9: the country. Country loses its northern half. What's preventing his bulah,
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  Speaker 9: which has rockets that can easily reach the southern part
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  Speaker 9: of this country from extending that uninhabited area southward to
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  Speaker 9: include Tel Aviv and our southern cities of Ashdod in Oscolo.
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  Speaker 5: That is the fear here tonight. And you know, we
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  Speaker 5: remain in.
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  Speaker 9: A high tense, real feeling this situation, waiting to see
• 15:55
  Speaker 9: the actual text of this agreement, to find out the details,
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  Speaker 9: knowing that the devil may be in those details, and
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  Speaker 9: the details could be from our perspective, deadly.
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  Speaker 1: Do you believe there's by the way, when we see
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  Speaker 1: the text of the MoU Do you believe we'll see
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  Speaker 1: it all? Because the history is littered, as you know
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  Speaker 1: as a historian, with secret annexes that nobody learns about
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  Speaker 1: until it's too late. Do you think we'll see everything?
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  Speaker 10: No?
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  Speaker 5: Probably not.
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  Speaker 9: I don't know many agreements that are published in total.
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  Speaker 9: And yes, you're right, there are secret addicts and we
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  Speaker 9: don't know what's going to be in them. There is
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  Speaker 9: I'm going to mix my metaphors in like cliches by
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  Speaker 9: saying the devil's in the details, but the proof is
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  Speaker 9: in the pudding, and we're gonna have to see how
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  Speaker 9: this agreement if implemented.
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  Speaker 5: And by the way, that could also be a long shot.
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  Speaker 9: Or you needed some elements within the Iranian leadership who
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  Speaker 9: don't like this agreement, and I understand their are elements
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  Speaker 9: like that, and a couple of dram attack, a couple
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  Speaker 9: of rock attacks on car drove chips on American military
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  Speaker 9: bases or destroyers in the sea could change the situation
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  Speaker 9: rather dramatically.
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  Speaker 8: We don't know.
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  Speaker 9: Israel will have to continue to defend itself and that
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  Speaker 9: is the first and primary goal of any Israeli leadership.
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  Speaker 9: Nathaniel was or otherwise is defend the land and the
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  Speaker 9: people of the State of Israel. And right now the
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  Speaker 9: land and the people are grievously threatened by his bula.
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  Speaker 1: So when the Iranians hit our Apache last week, President
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: Trump ordered a fifty to one hundred X response. So
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: they hit one helicopter where blushed that neither airman was
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: injured or killed, and they were recovered by the drone.
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: But the fact that we came back with two Knights
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: of Raids that probably got up to one hundred targets,
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: but it was a fifty X response. Is that what
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: Israel is entitled to do in your view.
• 17:45
  Speaker 5: Of course, unquestionably.
• 17:48
  Speaker 9: And when President Trump said after the downing of that Apache,
• 17:51
  Speaker 9: the United States has to respond, we said.
• 17:53
  Speaker 5: The same thing.
• 17:55
  Speaker 9: And his Bula is not firing at our troops, only
• 17:58
  Speaker 9: is firing at civilian communities across the Galilee. As I
• 18:03
  Speaker 9: mentioned earlier, many of them have been rendered utterly and uninhabitable,
• 18:06
  Speaker 9: and Israel has to respond. And that is a way
• 18:09
  Speaker 9: of not just maintaining our deterrence against bulloment against all
• 18:12
  Speaker 9: our regional enemies, and having the United States back our
• 18:17
  Speaker 9: right to respond in that way is important for America's
• 18:22
  Speaker 9: image in the Middle East, and as you know, in
• 18:23
  Speaker 9: the Middle East, image means everything.
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: Now I want to ask you and I'll carry it
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: over in the next segment, and I hope you can
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: stay with me for another one. Israel was attacked on
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: ten to seven, it's been thirty one months. Is Israel
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: in a better place today than it was on ten six?
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: Twenty three?
• 18:41
  Speaker 5: Mixed bag. I wish there was a black and white answer.
• 18:45
  Speaker 8: There is not.
• 18:45
  Speaker 9: On one hand, we have pushed our enemies back from
• 18:47
  Speaker 9: our borders. There we are not in danger of invasion,
• 18:50
  Speaker 9: neither in the South nor in the north. We have
• 18:53
  Speaker 9: degraded Irans of military ability and we have proven our
• 18:57
  Speaker 9: military prowess. On the other hand, Israel is isolated in
• 19:00
  Speaker 9: the world as never before. We have no recourse. We
• 19:03
  Speaker 9: can't go to Congress if we disagree with the president
• 19:05
  Speaker 9: in any way. We can't go to the Democratic parties certainly,
• 19:08
  Speaker 9: nor to our erstwhile friends in Europe.
• 19:11
  Speaker 5: And that is a major change.
• 19:13
  Speaker 9: Anti Semitism has just skyrocketed throughout the world and we
• 19:17
  Speaker 9: have to take that in consideration.
• 19:19
  Speaker 5: And now disagreement disagreement, We.
• 19:20
  Speaker 9: Don't know the full extent and details of it, but
• 19:24
  Speaker 9: it seems to leave Iran in a position to continue
• 19:27
  Speaker 9: to threaten its neighbors, to threaten US in ways that
• 19:32
  Speaker 9: will could easily prove deliterious for our fundamental security.
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: Ambassador Oran will be back with me after the break.
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: As I put the investigation worst case scenario question because
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: we don't really know yet, and my friends at comment
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: Jerry were rather downcast, and I just said, it's too
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: early to tell.
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: Stay turned to the kew Geworship Welcome back in America.
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: I'm here here with Ambassador Michael Orran former is really
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: ambassador in United States, doctor Oron, noted historian of the
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: Middle East, doctor or in Lindsay Graham Center. Graham good
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: friend of yours. Posted forty five minutes ago. The proposal
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: was envisioned by Vice President Vance and the Trump administration
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: to end the Iranian conflict would be transformative for the
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: region and a major achievement leading to broader peace. It
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: is my understanding the terms of the MOLU will be
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: released by the administration in coming days. I look forward
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: to reviewing the actual document rather than relying on Iranian
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: propaganda reports. Sooner it is released, the better. I am
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: in Lindsay Graham's camp. I said that on Fox News
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: this morning. I can't tell you so is the reaction
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: in Israel overwrought given that we don't know what's in
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: the deal yet.
• 20:47
  Speaker 9: You know, I have nothing but the highest regard in
• 20:49
  Speaker 9: affection for Lindsay Graham. But he's his statement side of
• 20:51
  Speaker 9: kind of self contradictory. One hand, he says the agreement
• 20:54
  Speaker 9: is going to be transformative to the entire region.
• 20:56
  Speaker 5: On the other hand, he says he doesn't know what's
• 20:57
  Speaker 5: in the agreement.
• 20:58
  Speaker 9: So I think I would like to be in both
• 21:01
  Speaker 9: camps of Lindsay Graham and hope that it will be
• 21:02
  Speaker 9: transformative to for the region. But I still have to
• 21:05
  Speaker 9: see the terms of the agreement and the way we
• 21:07
  Speaker 9: understand in Israel, the terms of agreement so far is
• 21:11
  Speaker 9: reason for grave concern here, and we're not I don't
• 21:14
  Speaker 9: think we're reacting hyper hyperbolically in any way. We've had
• 21:18
  Speaker 9: some pretty bad experience with the Iranian regime. I think
• 21:20
  Speaker 9: you'll agree, and so you know, we have to be
• 21:23
  Speaker 9: very very cautious if if Iran is able to continue
• 21:25
  Speaker 9: to build intercontinental ballistic missiles that can destroy Israeli cities,
• 21:29
  Speaker 9: if they support terror around the region and in the world.
• 21:32
  Speaker 9: By the way they try to assassinate me in downtown Washington.
• 21:36
  Speaker 9: You know they didn't succeed, as you see, but they
• 21:38
  Speaker 9: try to assassinate the president of the United States. This
• 21:40
  Speaker 9: is the world's largest state sponsor of terror. I don't
• 21:43
  Speaker 9: know what's in the agreement. Is there a condition where
• 21:45
  Speaker 9: they stop supporting terror in some way? Is there a
• 21:48
  Speaker 9: condition where they say, oh, well, we're not going to
• 21:50
  Speaker 9: seek Israel's destruction on a daily basis anymore, or developed
• 21:54
  Speaker 9: the means for attempting to do so, because that so
• 21:57
  Speaker 9: far seems to be a major lacuna in agreement. I
• 22:01
  Speaker 9: understand fully the White House's interest and need to reopen
• 22:05
  Speaker 9: the straight u from moves to get those oil prices down,
• 22:07
  Speaker 9: to get a grasp on the economic graphications of this war,
• 22:12
  Speaker 9: but we had other How should we say fish to
• 22:14
  Speaker 9: fry and those fish I think are.
• 22:17
  Speaker 5: From Israeli perspectives, they're whales, They're huge.
• 22:21
  Speaker 9: And the difference between peace and a future war right now,
• 22:26
  Speaker 9: looking at what we know at the agreement, what I
• 22:28
  Speaker 9: see in the future is not peace in the Middle East,
• 22:30
  Speaker 9: but further upheaval and perhaps a war.
• 22:33
  Speaker 5: That's even more devastating than anything we've seen before.
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: Now, could this agreement in any way be as bad
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: as the JCPOA was. I was asked that today and
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: I said, and Jack reed. Senator Reid said it was.
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: I laugh at that because the JCPOA was silent on
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: missiles and drones, and this agreement begins from the situation
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: where the missile and drone production capability of Iran has
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: been wholly devastated, if not completely than ninety percent. How
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: could it possibly be that the JCPOA, Again.
• 23:05
  Speaker 9: Well, there are different estimates about how many missiles they
• 23:07
  Speaker 9: actually have that goes from ninety percent to maybe only
• 23:09
  Speaker 9: twenty percent have been destroyed.
• 23:11
  Speaker 5: We don't know.
• 23:12
  Speaker 9: We also know from experience with Isabella how fast Iran
• 23:16
  Speaker 9: and its proxies can recover from these types of blows,
• 23:19
  Speaker 9: especially if they have the financial wherewithal to do that.
• 23:24
  Speaker 9: The big difference I see between this agreement and the
• 23:26
  Speaker 9: JCPOA is the JCPOA flooded Iran with cash in the
• 23:31
  Speaker 9: hope that, as President Obama then said, Iran could become
• 23:34
  Speaker 9: a responsible regional power quote unquote, what disagreement I think
• 23:39
  Speaker 9: is saying, okay, there could be financial rewards for Iran,
• 23:42
  Speaker 9: But first it has to prove that it will be
• 23:44
  Speaker 9: a responsible regional power. And I think that's an important distinction.
• 23:47
  Speaker 9: That is not a distinction without a difference, that is
• 23:51
  Speaker 9: truly a distinction.
• 23:52
  Speaker 5: And we see now that I feel like I'm getting
• 23:55
  Speaker 5: into cliches all night.
• 23:56
  Speaker 9: But We're going to have to hold Iran's feet to
• 23:58
  Speaker 9: the fire on this one and have very deeply penetrating
• 24:03
  Speaker 9: supervision inspections of its nuclear sites and to monitor very
• 24:07
  Speaker 9: closely Iran's behavior. There was no cap on Iran's behavior
• 24:11
  Speaker 9: in the JCPA whatsoever. Iran could become a regional hedgemon,
• 24:16
  Speaker 9: could expand its sphere of influence across the Middle East,
• 24:19
  Speaker 9: could oppress its own people and seek Israel's destruction with
• 24:23
  Speaker 9: total total impunity, more than a beauty, with legitimacy, and
• 24:26
  Speaker 9: with financing. To truly distinguish disagreement with the JCPOA, it
• 24:31
  Speaker 9: has to address Iran's missile program and its support for terror.
• 24:35
  Speaker 9: It's malign behavior. That wonderful euphemism, it's maligned behavior as
• 24:41
  Speaker 9: a terror supporting Jihattist expansionist regime.
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: Does anyone of note, anyone at all from anywhere on
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: the Israeli political spectrum.
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: Support where we are right now.
• 24:54
  Speaker 9: Well, President the Prime Minster gave a speech tonight. He
• 24:56
  Speaker 9: didn't praise the agreement. He simply said that the United
• 24:59
  Speaker 9: States and Israel see to about in their commitment to
• 25:01
  Speaker 9: prevent Irun from getting a nuclear weapon. He said that
• 25:04
  Speaker 9: that agreement is between the United States and Ron. Israel
• 25:06
  Speaker 9: is not obligated to that agreement, not party to that agreement,
• 25:09
  Speaker 9: and that Israel's hot tans cannot be tied with every
• 25:13
  Speaker 9: duty that any israel the government will have to defend
• 25:16
  Speaker 9: this land of people of Israel from threats from.
• 25:18
  Speaker 5: His fellow or any other proxy of Iran DoD Doran.
• 25:22
  Speaker 5: I've got sure there will be the elements of it. Okay,
• 25:24
  Speaker 5: if you've.
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: Got ten more minutes, I would love to keep you
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: for ten more minutes. I want to talk you about
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: the ug hating chain. All right, Doctor Orn will be
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: back after the break. Stay tuned to The hu Hewitt Show.
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: Welcome back in America. I'm Hugh HEWITTT.
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: Michael ran Is still with me, former ambassador from Israel
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: and to the United States, imminent historian on all things
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: Middle East, from a member of the Connected as well
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: DoD Dorn on Friday with the senior Administration official. I
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: got a chance to ask three questions, and I asked,
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: did the current text of the MoU cover the enriched
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: uranium that was not highly enriched, that is the stockpile
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: of three point six percent in rich uranium? Did it
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: cover the missiles and drones? And did it cover Pickaxe Mountain?
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: After some back and forth about what Pickaxe Mountain was,
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: the answer I got was yes, the fourth facility is covered.
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: And I got nothing certain on the other two answers.
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: I don't know that they had been negotiated or not.
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: Do you suspect that Bratt? This is my suspicion, But
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: I don't know. We don't know the answer to any
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: of these things. In that sixty days from now could
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: bring the resumption of war.
• 26:31
  Speaker 9: I doubt to be a resumption of war, but I
• 26:33
  Speaker 9: would expect maybe another sixty day extension to the negotiations.
• 26:37
  Speaker 9: Let's make a little wager, shall we, you mee Hugh,
• 26:41
  Speaker 9: whether in the course of sixty days all these issues
• 26:44
  Speaker 9: will be ironed out.
• 26:45
  Speaker 5: Or will oftend it.
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: I'm not taking that bet.
• 26:51
  Speaker 5: They're very good foot dragging the I audience and they'll
• 26:54
  Speaker 5: drag it out.
• 26:54
  Speaker 9: And they think they have internalized that there's no credible
• 26:57
  Speaker 9: military option on the table anymore. Donald Trump could prove
• 27:01
  Speaker 9: them wrong, certainly, and he is the king of the unexpected,
• 27:04
  Speaker 9: but they have internalized that, and the other golf countries
• 27:08
  Speaker 9: have internalized that. It's interesting that with the exception of
• 27:11
  Speaker 9: the UAE and none of these other golf countries, though
• 27:13
  Speaker 9: they were pumbled by.
• 27:14
  Speaker 5: Iranian missiles, none of them struck back.
• 27:16
  Speaker 9: I think I've said on this program before that and
• 27:19
  Speaker 9: Saudi Arabia together have something like nine hundred first line
• 27:23
  Speaker 9: fighter jets, that's almost more than the US and Israel combined.
• 27:27
  Speaker 5: But they didn't take off.
• 27:28
  Speaker 9: They were afraid that the war would end with the
• 27:31
  Speaker 9: United States losing stomach for it.
• 27:33
  Speaker 5: And the Iranians wounded and angry, but still very much alive.
• 27:37
  Speaker 9: And I would not be surprised if're going to see
• 27:39
  Speaker 9: the leaders of these countries now pretty much standing in
• 27:42
  Speaker 9: line to make up with Iran.
• 27:45
  Speaker 5: And so, you know, that is a major transformation in
• 27:49
  Speaker 5: the region.
• 27:49
  Speaker 9: And what can I say for those of us who
• 27:51
  Speaker 9: hope that the region would be transformed in a different direction,
• 27:54
  Speaker 9: that they would be peace between Israel and elepon peace
• 27:57
  Speaker 9: between Israel and serious Saudi Arabia, maybe even p between
• 28:00
  Speaker 9: Israel and a Postla. I told Iran and we have
• 28:04
  Speaker 9: packs Americano restored from the the eastern shore of the
• 28:08
  Speaker 9: Mediterranean to the banks of the Ganges.
• 28:10
  Speaker 5: That vision, that vision has rapidly dissipated. And now we're
• 28:15
  Speaker 5: told we have to we have to, we have to
• 28:17
  Speaker 5: be we have to fight just with you know, a
• 28:19
  Speaker 5: reopening of.
• 28:20
  Speaker 9: The Strait of Removes, which will remain under Iranian control
• 28:24
  Speaker 9: even though not under Iranian tolls, and uh in Iran,
• 28:28
  Speaker 9: which you know, if it cooperates or appears to cooperate,
• 28:31
  Speaker 9: will we'll be given a lifeline, will be given a
• 28:33
  Speaker 9: life to intour regime that cannot cannot can, I cannot
• 28:36
  Speaker 9: stress enough, cannot change its DNA.
• 28:38
  Speaker 5: This is who they are. They are not going to
• 28:40
  Speaker 5: be responsible regional power.
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: The everything that's happened since Thursday's announcement by the President
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: of a deal on Friday has been fought out in
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: the information realm as well as at the negotiating table,
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: and in the information realm. It's really quite remarkable. This
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: conversation will be monitored by the Ronnie and propaganda machine,
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: and they will go to work on it in ways
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: obvious and surreptitious. And I am afraid that people who
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: are like you and me, concerned that it could go bad,
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: may end up helping Iran make it bad by misjudging
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: the resolve of the West to make them change. In
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: other words, I don't want to help them think that
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: they can get away with sixty days, sixty days, sixty days,
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: when in fact, what I think is if this w
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: recor if this actually represents capitulation by the United States,
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: it's a disaster for Donald Trump and JD. Vans, That's
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: what I think. If it's capitulation, it's disaster, and so
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: I want to keep open the possibility that it's not.
• 29:43
  Speaker 5: What do you make of that perspective, I agree with
• 29:47
  Speaker 5: you that the hope is that it's not a disaster.
• 29:49
  Speaker 9: Because a disaster not just for Donald Trump a JD.
• 29:51
  Speaker 9: Mass it's a disaster for our civilization and as a whole.
• 29:57
  Speaker 9: Because what's standing between us and the darkckness is the
• 30:01
  Speaker 9: United States of America and its military force, and it's
• 30:03
  Speaker 9: resolved to fight to fight back. Israel is certainly standing
• 30:06
  Speaker 9: so to shoulder with the United States in shoulder and.
• 30:09
  Speaker 5: In that resolve and with the ability to carry out
• 30:11
  Speaker 5: that resolve.
• 30:13
  Speaker 9: And I understand that my criticism of this administration's handling
• 30:18
  Speaker 9: of this war goes back.
• 30:20
  Speaker 5: And we've talked about it before.
• 30:21
  Speaker 9: There was never a fully compelling case made to the
• 30:24
  Speaker 9: American people about why they had to make sacrifices in
• 30:26
  Speaker 9: order to defeat Iran. And there was a very compelling
• 30:30
  Speaker 9: case to be made, and it was not Alas and
• 30:33
  Speaker 9: I think that that was one of the reasons why
• 30:35
  Speaker 9: there were such pressures on the administration as gas prices
• 30:37
  Speaker 9: went up, and the cost of living went up, and
• 30:39
  Speaker 9: the cost of fertilizer went up, all these things that
• 30:42
  Speaker 9: a lot of Americans say, why are we doing this?
• 30:44
  Speaker 9: Why are we making these sacrifices. We don't even know
• 30:46
  Speaker 9: where Iran is on the map.
• 30:47
  Speaker 5: So I think that there is criticism there.
• 30:50
  Speaker 9: But the hope, I share your hope that at the
• 30:54
  Speaker 9: end of the sixty days, if Iran is still dragging
• 30:56
  Speaker 9: its feet, then the United States will say, Okay, you're
• 31:00
  Speaker 9: going to face the might of the United States Armed
• 31:03
  Speaker 9: Forces once again until you come around.
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: And that's so I got to get one more question
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: in this deal. Has the potential to split the Republican Party,
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: and I want to just put that out there. Does
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: it add the potential to divide the net and Yahoo
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: coalition such that he can't win reelection.
• 31:21
  Speaker 9: Well, he's taking a tremendous hit tonight. I don't care
• 31:23
  Speaker 9: how he tried to justify it. He is being attacked
• 31:25
  Speaker 9: by up, down, right and left, including ministers in his
• 31:28
  Speaker 9: own government.
• 31:30
  Speaker 5: Rightly or wrongly, I don't.
• 31:31
  Speaker 9: Think pravankly, the Prime Minister had any much choice but
• 31:34
  Speaker 9: to try to get the President on board in meeting
• 31:36
  Speaker 9: the existential challenge posed by Iran.
• 31:38
  Speaker 5: He succeeded in doing that.
• 31:40
  Speaker 9: And it's not it's How's fault that the United States said, Okay, enough,
• 31:43
  Speaker 9: we've had enough of this war while Israel was willing
• 31:46
  Speaker 9: to continue.
• 31:47
  Speaker 5: It's not his fault. And you know, as they're saying,
• 31:49
  Speaker 5: he put all of his eggs in one basket.
• 31:52
  Speaker 9: I don't see any many other baskets around the world,
• 31:54
  Speaker 9: frankly in Europe or elsewhere, or even in the Democratic
• 31:57
  Speaker 9: Party for that matter. So I can't think you can
• 32:00
  Speaker 9: fault him. But he is being criticized. The buck ends
• 32:03
  Speaker 9: there with the Prime Minister, and this is perceived as
• 32:05
  Speaker 9: a major setback for Israel and israel security. And that's
• 32:08
  Speaker 9: the reality here tonight, vast night, the President issue the
• 32:12
  Speaker 9: statements saying that this agreement would bring peace and stability
• 32:15
  Speaker 9: to the Middle East.
• 32:16
  Speaker 5: I don't think you're going.
• 32:17
  Speaker 9: To find any is really much less many people in
• 32:20
  Speaker 9: the Middle East that would sign on to that declaration.
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: That is a good place to end it, Ambassador Michael Uran.
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: I appreciate the extra time today. Many people are interested
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: in the Israeli perspective on this deal, and I think
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: you've fairly and fully laid it out there, especially at
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: the end. We'll check in again soon, and thank you,
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: Ambassador Michael Lurran. By the way, great speech in Europe
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: about Normandy. I didn't know your dad went ashore at
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: D Day, and I didn't know anything about World War One.
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: I didn't know anything about the Benjamin I didn't know
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: any of that. So well done, Michael Lauran. I appreciate
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: your spending time with me.
• 32:57
  Speaker 2: Welcome back to America. I'm Hugh Hewitt.
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: Senator Tom Cotton represents a great state of Arkansas. He
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: is also chair of the United States Senate Intelligence Committee. Senator,
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: I hope you had a great flag day. I want
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: to begin by asking you did have you talked about
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: the MLU with President Trump and Vice President Dance and
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: Secretary of Rubio yet any or all of those three.
• 33:19
  Speaker 11: No, not since the President's announcement yesterday, Hugh. So I
• 33:23
  Speaker 11: gather they just signed it and we would expect it to.
• 33:25
  Speaker 2: Be released soon.
• 33:26
  Speaker 11: I guess they're going to have some kind of meeting
• 33:27
  Speaker 11: on Friday. So I think it's premature for anyone to
• 33:31
  Speaker 11: weigh in for good or for ill until we actually
• 33:35
  Speaker 11: understand the exact nature of what was agreed to. Obviously,
• 33:38
  Speaker 11: we're in a much better position than we were eleven
• 33:42
  Speaker 11: months ago after two major bombing efforts destroyed their nuclear
• 33:45
  Speaker 11: facilities and severely degraded their military. Unlick what the Democrats
• 33:50
  Speaker 11: keep saying, which is that Barack Obama somehow left us
• 33:53
  Speaker 11: in a better position with his ill fated agreement with
• 33:56
  Speaker 11: a run.
• 33:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: I came on Fox this morning and Dane Prino played
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: for me Senator reads statement that they were with that
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: they were a year away from breakout after the JCPOA,
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: and now they're days away from a breakout. It's as
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: though he missed the news we destroyed their program, Senator Cotton,
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: do they not know we destroyed their program?
• 34:18
  Speaker 11: Here's the Democrats these days. We'll say anything if it's
• 34:21
  Speaker 11: critical of Donald Trump. They leaving the root against America.
• 34:24
  Speaker 11: Sow one Democratic center of the weekend saying that this
• 34:27
  Speaker 11: deal is a surrender to Iran, as if he could
• 34:30
  Speaker 11: know that without reviewing the details of it. And he's
• 34:33
  Speaker 11: saying that was a good thing because he wanted to
• 34:34
  Speaker 11: run the United States to surrender to Iran. Of course, Hugh,
• 34:39
  Speaker 11: as I said, we're in a better position than we
• 34:40
  Speaker 11: were a year ago, certainly better position than Barack Obama
• 34:43
  Speaker 11: ever left the nation, because we had two major bombing
• 34:46
  Speaker 11: efforts last June destroyed their nuclear facilities and March and April,
• 34:51
  Speaker 11: which severely degraded their navy, their air force, their missiles,
• 34:54
  Speaker 11: their drones, their manufacturing capabilities. So whatever the shape of
• 34:58
  Speaker 11: a final agreement with if they even reach a final agreement,
• 35:02
  Speaker 11: and they're not constantly trying to walk back their commitments
• 35:04
  Speaker 11: as we know Iran as a history of doing, we're
• 35:07
  Speaker 11: in a much better position than we were before those
• 35:11
  Speaker 11: two bombing campaigns.
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: Senator you were on the Intel Committee with Secretary Rubio,
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: and so you know what he thinks about Iran, and
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: you two are pretty aligned on that. Does he agree
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: that the entire agreement has to come to the Senate?
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: Not only whatever is in the MoU, but if there's
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: a secret annex or an understanding that isn't written down,
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: all of that has to come to the Senate.
• 35:37
  Speaker 2: Does he agree with that?
• 35:40
  Speaker 11: I think he testify to that effect at the Foreign
• 35:42
  Speaker 11: Relations Committee recently. Obviously, Marco had very strong was a
• 35:48
  Speaker 11: very strong opponent of President Obama's nuclear agreement with Iran.
• 35:53
  Speaker 11: He understands that Iran's leaders mean it with this chant
• 35:56
  Speaker 11: death to America. Of course, he also understands it now
• 35:59
  Speaker 11: as of sat naw Scurry advisor, he's an advisor, and
• 36:02
  Speaker 11: advisors advise the president's deside, so he'll give his best
• 36:06
  Speaker 11: advice to the president. The president will make the decisions
• 36:09
  Speaker 11: that he thinks are in the nation's best interest. But
• 36:11
  Speaker 11: I think I think Marco testified to the effect two
• 36:15
  Speaker 11: or three weeks ago at the Foreign Relations Committee that
• 36:17
  Speaker 11: any nuclear agreement with Iran would have to come before
• 36:20
  Speaker 11: the Congress.
• 36:21
  Speaker 2: Now Senator.
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: On Friday, at senior Administration official on background briefed a
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: few reporters. I was among them. My questions were limited,
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: were very specific. Did the text of the MOLU deal
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: with all enriched uranium or just highly enriched uranium? Didn't
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: get clarity on that. Did it deal with the actual
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: text deal with missiles and drones? Didn't get clarity on that.
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: Then I asked if it dealt with Pickaxe Mountain, and
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: after some hesitation to recognize the term, the senior administration
• 36:51
  Speaker 1: official said, yes, we're aware of a four facility and
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: it's dealt with what do you want to see in
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: an MU about Pickax Mountain Center?
• 37:01
  Speaker 11: Iran falsely claims that it's enrichment and other nuclear program
• 37:07
  Speaker 11: had no military justification, that is all about civilian research,
• 37:12
  Speaker 11: as if Iranians have been winning a bunch of Nobel
• 37:14
  Speaker 11: prizes about nuclear research over the last thirty years. If
• 37:19
  Speaker 11: it's a civilian program, to you, obviously, there's no reason
• 37:22
  Speaker 11: to have these centrifuges varied three hundred feet under rocky mountains.
• 37:27
  Speaker 11: So I think, as I've said now for twelve years
• 37:30
  Speaker 11: in the stead, a very reasonable position would be for
• 37:32
  Speaker 11: Iran to open up its underground buckers to demonstrates that
• 37:35
  Speaker 11: they have no centrifuges there and to allow continual inspections
• 37:40
  Speaker 11: to demonstrate that they're not using those bunkers to try
• 37:43
  Speaker 11: to enrich uranium to weapons grade.
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: So is anywhere, anytime inspections on demand the I've seen
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: it on qua for.
• 37:53
  Speaker 11: You of a good deal, I think it's the important part.
• 37:58
  Speaker 11: But to be honest, I've never believed that kind of
• 38:02
  Speaker 11: inspection regime can be truly effective in Iran. First off,
• 38:06
  Speaker 11: Iran is twice the size of Texas, and we're talking
• 38:09
  Speaker 11: about things that might fill up a high school gymnasium,
• 38:14
  Speaker 11: maybe an NFL practice facility. But second, Bron's leaders have
• 38:19
  Speaker 11: a long demonstrated history of lyne and the way you
• 38:23
  Speaker 11: know they're lying is when they're moving their lips. So
• 38:28
  Speaker 11: the only true guarantee, in my opinion, has always been
• 38:31
  Speaker 11: that they take the rout of countries that disarmed in
• 38:36
  Speaker 11: the aftermath the Cold War and kind of threw open
• 38:38
  Speaker 11: the doors and said, come look at everything, take everything away.
• 38:42
  Speaker 11: We want nothing to do with nuclear research.
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: So, Senator, my big concern domestically is that the deal
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: has the potential to split the Republican Party because some
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: of us are long standing hawks about Iran and don't
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: believe the word they say and wish them continued, and
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: some of us are so called restrainers. Do you see
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: that potential out there?
• 39:06
  Speaker 11: I think it's too early to conclude to you. Again,
• 39:09
  Speaker 11: you know, the text of what the President has signed
• 39:14
  Speaker 11: will be released sooner or later. And I understand that
• 39:17
  Speaker 11: some of the some of the key points are simply
• 39:20
  Speaker 11: being hunted. So in some ways, this is an agreement
• 39:23
  Speaker 11: to disagree and to continue deliberations, which is essentially a
• 39:28
  Speaker 11: continuation of the status quo over the last sixty days, minus,
• 39:32
  Speaker 11: as the President said, reopening up a straight without any
• 39:35
  Speaker 11: towling or other kinds of obstruction, and lifting of the blockade.
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: I just spent three segments with Ambassador Orin, and the
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: reaction in Israel to reports of the deal, from left
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: to right uniformly, is extremely negative and very damaging to
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: Benjamin that Niahu, I have neither. I don't care, you know,
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: brief I don't vote in Israel. But are you surprised
• 39:59
  Speaker 1: that all of Israel is united in hating on the
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: outlines of the deal that have been linked because it's
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: a little.
• 40:05
  Speaker 2: Premature, But.
• 40:08
  Speaker 11: Hugh, yeah, I think it's fair to say this premature.
• 40:11
  Speaker 11: I don't want to pine on every single Israeli commentator
• 40:14
  Speaker 11: or pundent across the spectrum. I will say that Israel
• 40:18
  Speaker 11: has been a model partner to the United States in
• 40:22
  Speaker 11: this battle against Iran. We fought alongside Israeli forces in
• 40:26
  Speaker 11: a way we haven't fought alongside here military going back
• 40:30
  Speaker 11: to Great Britain in World War Two. It's obvious understandable
• 40:35
  Speaker 11: that the Israeli people are even more concerned and invested
• 40:39
  Speaker 11: in the outcome here, given they're a small nation that
• 40:41
  Speaker 11: lived in the neighborhood with a run, and we're a
• 40:43
  Speaker 11: very big nation that lives very far away, has many
• 40:46
  Speaker 11: different concerns, both at home and in other parts of
• 40:48
  Speaker 11: the world. So I understand that Israeli people may be
• 40:50
  Speaker 11: following this a bit more closely than many Americans are.
• 40:53
  Speaker 11: But I think it's premature again for anyone to reach
• 40:57
  Speaker 11: a final and firm judgment until the text the agreement
• 41:00
  Speaker 11: is released, and we're.
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: Gonna leave it there because I agree with that. Senator
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: Tom Cotton, thank you as always for joining me following
• 41:06
  Speaker 1: him on ex Send Tom Cotton and Tom Cotton and
• 41:10
  Speaker 1: you'll be up to speed on whatever is going on.
• 41:15
  Speaker 2: Working back America.
• 41:16
  Speaker 1: Andrew Hewett, joined by Selena Zito. Selena's America's commis. She
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: writes for the Washington Post. She writes for the New
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: York Post. She writes for the Washington Examiner. She writes
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: for the Pittsburgh Post. Casette. She writes on the walls
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: in her house. I think she just is always writing, Selena.
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: I want to celebrate one thing amid all the angst
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: over the MoU the great weekend and refreshment was watching
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: Europeans experience America as they travel to World Cup game.
• 41:42
  Speaker 2: What's been your favorite part of that?
• 41:45
  Speaker 8: All of it?
• 41:47
  Speaker 12: What has been my favorite part has been Europeans seeing
• 41:54
  Speaker 12: our country for what it is, as opposed to what
• 41:57
  Speaker 12: they often would read in elite news organizations, either European
• 42:03
  Speaker 12: ones or American ones that often just depict it as
• 42:07
  Speaker 12: a sort of a living dystopia of awfulness.
• 42:13
  Speaker 7: I can't describe it any any other way.
• 42:16
  Speaker 12: And to see just sort of their joyful realization of
• 42:20
  Speaker 12: watching how Americans love to be aspirational, to be part
• 42:24
  Speaker 12: of something bigger than self, and how much they enjoy that,
• 42:27
  Speaker 12: how much they enjoy helping each other. I mean, you know,
• 42:31
  Speaker 12: you grew up in Ohio, in Pennsylvania. Think about a Michigan, Wisconsin.
• 42:37
  Speaker 12: You get to a four way stop and most of
• 42:40
  Speaker 12: the time people will wave each other on to the
• 42:42
  Speaker 12: point where it gets annoying.
• 42:44
  Speaker 5: And nobody moves.
• 42:46
  Speaker 7: This is a culture that loves to help people.
• 42:48
  Speaker 12: This is a culture that is proud of localities and localism,
• 42:55
  Speaker 12: but also even our franchises, and we want you to
• 42:59
  Speaker 12: to enjoy them. That we want you to feel happy
• 43:02
  Speaker 12: about them. And it's sort of just been a very
• 43:06
  Speaker 12: joyful experience to see who we are and what we
• 43:09
  Speaker 12: are seen through the eyes of someone who maybe had
• 43:13
  Speaker 12: an expectation that we were something different.
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, there are lots of these accounts. My favorite is
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: Freddy the German, but there are a lot of accounts.
• 43:22
  Speaker 1: Freddy's very funny. He's in the South now. A question
• 43:25
  Speaker 1: occurred to me, where would you take the World Cup
• 43:28
  Speaker 1: fans that they're not going to see For example, I'm
• 43:30
  Speaker 1: going to give you my first example. I would drive
• 43:33
  Speaker 1: them along the Madison River from Ennis to my friend
• 43:37
  Speaker 1: Engineer's house and then take them fly fishing at the
• 43:40
  Speaker 1: Wild Adventure GWA dot Us. Because nobody understands Montana until
• 43:45
  Speaker 1: you've driven through Montana and there's not going to be
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: any World Cup in Montana.
• 43:49
  Speaker 2: Where would you take that?
• 43:50
  Speaker 12: Now, that's a great idea. I think fly fishing anywhere
• 43:55
  Speaker 12: in this country. Right there's the fly fishing splot along
• 43:59
  Speaker 12: spruce crick, as they say around here, where there's say.
• 44:04
  Speaker 2: Anything else anywhere the word crik is crack.
• 44:09
  Speaker 7: Crick.
• 44:10
  Speaker 12: There's a place in Altoona where you can go to
• 44:14
  Speaker 12: the Eltuny Curve baseball game, which I talked Tom Cotton
• 44:18
  Speaker 12: to going to last year, and then there's an amusement
• 44:21
  Speaker 12: park behind it. I mean, there's so many magical places
• 44:25
  Speaker 12: in this country where something is what we might view
• 44:30
  Speaker 12: as simple ordinary as part of our days, could really be.
• 44:35
  Speaker 7: Something special to.
• 44:37
  Speaker 12: Someone that's never experienced it, and it gives us an
• 44:40
  Speaker 12: ability to have fresh eyes on the treasure that that
• 44:45
  Speaker 12: are right.
• 44:46
  Speaker 7: In front of us, and sometimes we tend to take
• 44:48
  Speaker 7: for granted.
• 44:50
  Speaker 1: My second suggested place, and you get a chance to
• 44:53
  Speaker 1: think of yours is I would double up Cooperstown and
• 44:57
  Speaker 1: the Pro Football Hall of Fame in Canton, because they
• 45:01
  Speaker 1: have their sports, they have their soccer, but they don't
• 45:04
  Speaker 1: get America's obsession with those two sports.
• 45:06
  Speaker 2: And I think the Hall of Fame for both of
• 45:08
  Speaker 2: them would be good trips, how about you.
• 45:11
  Speaker 7: Yeah, I love Cooperstown.
• 45:14
  Speaker 13: It is so.
• 45:17
  Speaker 12: It's like a Norman Rockwell town, right, It's filled with
• 45:21
  Speaker 12: so much rich history, but it's also a throwback small
• 45:26
  Speaker 12: American town where they could really experience America in a
• 45:32
  Speaker 12: very simple and very sweet and charming way. But also
• 45:35
  Speaker 12: the football I mean, the Baseball Hall of Fame is
• 45:39
  Speaker 12: just bar none all right.
• 45:40
  Speaker 1: So my last suggestion, it comes from you and Dwayne
• 45:44
  Speaker 1: talking but during the break about amusement parks, and I
• 45:47
  Speaker 1: don't want them to go to Disney World. I don't
• 45:48
  Speaker 1: want them to go to Disneyland. I don't want them
• 45:50
  Speaker 1: go to Universal Theaters. That's the highest end of that.
• 45:53
  Speaker 1: I want them to go to Cedar Point or Six
• 45:55
  Speaker 1: Flags or Dollywood or one of the regional parks, right,
• 46:00
  Speaker 1: because then you get the whole regional park experience.
• 46:05
  Speaker 11: Yeah.
• 46:05
  Speaker 12: A lot of our amusement parks in our country were
• 46:07
  Speaker 12: built at the end of old trolley lines.
• 46:10
  Speaker 7: It encouraged people to use.
• 46:12
  Speaker 12: The trolleys and to get off in different stops and
• 46:15
  Speaker 12: spend money in small, little business districts, in little towns
• 46:19
  Speaker 12: and even in the cities.
• 46:20
  Speaker 7: There's one in Pittsburgh. It's called Kennywood Park.
• 46:24
  Speaker 12: There's also a sister one in Leganeer, Pennsylvania called Idawa Park.
• 46:29
  Speaker 12: Very old fashioned trolley parks that have grown into these
• 46:35
  Speaker 12: institutions that.
• 46:37
  Speaker 7: Attract both young and old.
• 46:39
  Speaker 12: There's also water parks now associated with it, and it's
• 46:43
  Speaker 12: a much calmer, sort of laid back way to enjoy
• 46:47
  Speaker 12: amusement parks. But there's also a lot of old rides
• 46:51
  Speaker 12: in these old amusement parks, right, ones that have endured
• 46:54
  Speaker 12: for over one hundred years. You can see the craftsmanship
• 46:57
  Speaker 12: that went into like the Merry Go Round of the
• 47:00
  Speaker 12: auto rature. So there's a and there's always great food, right,
• 47:05
  Speaker 12: There's always there's always an amusement park that's known for
• 47:08
  Speaker 12: it's French fries, or it's hot dogs, or it's or
• 47:11
  Speaker 12: it's hamburgers.
• 47:13
  Speaker 1: So that brings me to my last suggestion. I would
• 47:16
  Speaker 1: love for them to go to a parish festival. Every
• 47:20
  Speaker 1: parish in Ohio had a unique Festimnt Carmel was very Italian,
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: Saint Mary's is very Irish. Catholic parish festival is a
• 47:28
  Speaker 1: unique thing. It happens all over America, right, would you
• 47:32
  Speaker 1: send them to one in Pittsburgh. Have you got one
• 47:33
  Speaker 1: in your mind?
• 47:35
  Speaker 9: Oh?
• 47:35
  Speaker 12: Yeah, there's a Lebanese festival in Pittsburgh and the food
• 47:39
  Speaker 12: is to die for. But there's also the Polish Festival,
• 47:42
  Speaker 12: which has the most amazing variety of perogis that you'll
• 47:46
  Speaker 12: ever have.
• 47:47
  Speaker 2: Oh, I think they should go to that. Oh, they
• 47:49
  Speaker 2: should definitely go to that, because that's the thing I've seen.
• 47:53
  Speaker 1: They're all eating the size of the flight servings and
• 47:56
  Speaker 1: the remarkable food. So I think it's it's really Cyneco
• 48:01
  Speaker 1: Publius posted this. It's making a lot of Americans across
• 48:05
  Speaker 1: the aisle happy. Is it making you happy to watch
• 48:07
  Speaker 1: these people comment on our country?
• 48:10
  Speaker 13: Oh?
• 48:11
  Speaker 9: Yeah?
• 48:11
  Speaker 12: And I think the the other thing that's really, you know,
• 48:14
  Speaker 12: great to watch is all the people showing up to
• 48:17
  Speaker 12: see the big Boy, right the Union Pacific Railroad. Ye,
• 48:20
  Speaker 12: just showing everywhere across the country. Was up in Luzerne
• 48:24
  Speaker 12: County over the weekend, going across the viaduct.
• 48:28
  Speaker 13: You just see people.
• 48:29
  Speaker 12: I mean, they turned it into a festival at tailgate
• 48:33
  Speaker 12: and it's really magical part of America.
• 48:35
  Speaker 1: Two fifty Selena Zito follower on Exit Zito Selena. Her
• 48:39
  Speaker 1: website is Selenazedo dot com. If you want to read
• 48:42
  Speaker 1: everything that Selna Rito Selena Zito writes, it's all right there.
• 48:47
  Speaker 1: She's also happened to be President Trump's favorite journalist, so
• 48:51
  Speaker 1: I'll always find out what he's thinking via Selena and
• 48:53
  Speaker 1: stay tuned in America.
• 48:54
  Speaker 2: I'll be right back race America.
• 48:56
  Speaker 1: Welcome to hour three of the Here at should OH
• 48:58
  Speaker 1: today on the Salem News Channel, to the Salem Radio Network,
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: all of our radio affiliates across the United States.
• 49:03
  Speaker 2: Coming up.
• 49:03
  Speaker 1: After my first guest, I'll be joined Judge Roy Altman,
• 49:07
  Speaker 1: the United States District Court Southern District of Florida. You've
• 49:10
  Speaker 1: got a brand new book, Israel on Trial, which we'll
• 49:12
  Speaker 1: be talking about for most of the rest of the hour.
• 49:14
  Speaker 1: But I'm so pleased to begin the hour with Jamie
• 49:17
  Speaker 1: Fly because I don't forget nice gestures. When I got
• 49:19
  Speaker 1: back to Washington, DC in twenty sixteen, one of the
• 49:23
  Speaker 1: first offers for kaffee I got in the halls of
• 49:25
  Speaker 1: the Senate was from Jamie Fly, then senior advisor to
• 49:28
  Speaker 1: now Secretary of State Marco Rubio. Jamie Fly, good to
• 49:31
  Speaker 1: see you again, and especially since you're running Freedom House,
• 49:34
  Speaker 1: which I've long long admired. How did that journey unfold?
• 49:38
  Speaker 1: How we go from the caverns below the Senate to
• 49:41
  Speaker 1: your running Freedom House. Where have you been in between?
• 49:45
  Speaker 13: Well, great to see you, Hughan, thanks for having me.
• 49:47
  Speaker 13: So I've been all over the place in between. I
• 49:50
  Speaker 13: was in Europe for several years as president of Radio
• 49:52
  Speaker 13: Free Europe, the US funded broadcaster reaching audiences in countries
• 49:57
  Speaker 13: where they don't have access to independent information. I was
• 49:59
  Speaker 13: a talent here for a couple of years in the
• 50:01
  Speaker 13: private sector and then had this opportunity to come lead
• 50:04
  Speaker 13: Freedom House, which is the oldest democracy organization in the
• 50:08
  Speaker 13: US and has a great bipartisan history going back to
• 50:11
  Speaker 13: Wendell wilk and Ellen Roosevelt and our founding in nineteen
• 50:14
  Speaker 13: forty one.
• 50:14
  Speaker 7: So I'm excited to cut my teeth.
• 50:16
  Speaker 2: Before you were born.
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: When I was working for Richard Nixon in the Real War,
• 50:20
  Speaker 1: Freedom House was a go to source on Soviet Union dissidents.
• 50:23
  Speaker 1: So you are still holding high the flag of liberty
• 50:26
  Speaker 1: in every country and especially on behalf of dissidence. Tell
• 50:30
  Speaker 1: people what Freedom Mouses work is primarily today, and then
• 50:34
  Speaker 1: let's zero in on people like Jimmy Lai and others
• 50:39
  Speaker 1: that we are our high profile dissonance in the world.
• 50:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 50:43
  Speaker 13: So a part of our work today remains the bipartisan
• 50:47
  Speaker 13: mission of our founding eighty five years ago, of Republicans
• 50:50
  Speaker 13: and Democrats coming together, setting their parts and differences aside,
• 50:54
  Speaker 13: and uniting behind the cause of liberty overseas.
• 50:58
  Speaker 7: And the way we then do that and implement that
• 51:00
  Speaker 7: is by often.
• 51:01
  Speaker 13: Supporting those on the front lines of freedom, from Iran
• 51:04
  Speaker 13: to China, people in Hong Kong.
• 51:07
  Speaker 7: With Jimmy Lai that you mentioned, we have a political
• 51:08
  Speaker 7: Prisoner program.
• 51:09
  Speaker 13: We provide funding and resources to those who are fighting
• 51:13
  Speaker 13: for freedom in their countries. And we also obviously do
• 51:17
  Speaker 13: a lot of research and highlight the plight of those
• 51:20
  Speaker 13: who are facing repression and advocate for government policies both
• 51:23
  Speaker 13: here in the US and internationally to help those who
• 51:26
  Speaker 13: are on the front lines of freedom.
• 51:28
  Speaker 1: So I've got some specific questions. I want to begin
• 51:30
  Speaker 1: with Jimmy Laid. The President has talked about him on
• 51:34
  Speaker 1: this program three times, so Secretary Rubio so was jd Vance.
• 51:39
  Speaker 1: They all says Hi on the agenda, and I believe them.
• 51:41
  Speaker 1: I believe the President brought him up. I also beginning
• 51:44
  Speaker 1: to conclude that Chairman G is indifferent to the asks
• 51:49
  Speaker 1: of the world. What do you think, Jamie fly.
• 51:53
  Speaker 13: Well, I think the first step, and I think this administration,
• 51:55
  Speaker 13: which you know, doesn't always prioritize cases like Jimmy's political
• 52:00
  Speaker 13: prisoner cases and human rights compared to previous administrations, But
• 52:03
  Speaker 13: in this case, President Trump seems to have taken a
• 52:06
  Speaker 13: personal interest. As far as we know, he advocated for
• 52:10
  Speaker 13: both Jimmy Lai as well as other prominent political prisoners
• 52:14
  Speaker 13: in China like Pastor Ezra Jin, who were also advocating
• 52:17
  Speaker 13: here at Freedom House on behalf.
• 52:18
  Speaker 7: Of he raised these cases.
• 52:20
  Speaker 13: But as you know from your decades long experience, you
• 52:23
  Speaker 13: can't just raise them once.
• 52:25
  Speaker 7: You need to keep on raising them with.
• 52:27
  Speaker 13: These authoritarian leaders, and eventually there needs to be some
• 52:29
  Speaker 13: sort of pressure exerted to get the release.
• 52:33
  Speaker 7: And I think hopefully that's where the administration will go next.
• 52:36
  Speaker 13: President G wants to come to the US and the
• 52:40
  Speaker 13: later this year in the fall, and so I think
• 52:41
  Speaker 13: one thing we're advocating for is that maybe he shouldn't
• 52:44
  Speaker 13: come unless there are some of these prisoners released. And
• 52:47
  Speaker 13: so the administration has leverage points, they just need to
• 52:49
  Speaker 13: be willing to use them.
• 52:50
  Speaker 1: So second question Jamie right out of the front pages today,
• 52:55
  Speaker 1: I don't know what's in the MoU between the United
• 52:57
  Speaker 1: States and Iran, and as a result, I'm withholding judgment
• 53:00
  Speaker 1: until I can actually see it, and the text will
• 53:03
  Speaker 1: be released later in the week. But I know what
• 53:05
  Speaker 1: I don't need to see, which is Iran's record on
• 53:07
  Speaker 1: freedom and human rights. They've executed I believe forty people
• 53:11
  Speaker 1: this year alone, between fifteen and twenty by hanging. They
• 53:14
  Speaker 1: remain at least among the most repressive regimes that don't
• 53:18
  Speaker 1: have to be repressive because they have all sorts of
• 53:21
  Speaker 1: alternative ways, such as exile. What's freedom Mouse think of
• 53:25
  Speaker 1: Iran outside of the context of the current battle, but
• 53:29
  Speaker 1: as a regime and its human rights policy.
• 53:33
  Speaker 13: At Freedom House, we've been focused from day one on
• 53:36
  Speaker 13: the plight of the Iranian people, and I think that's
• 53:38
  Speaker 13: the real danger at this moment.
• 53:41
  Speaker 7: As there's talk about a nuclear agreement or some sort
• 53:44
  Speaker 7: of agreement on the straight of horm moves.
• 53:45
  Speaker 13: The fundamental reality hasn't changed, and actually, in some cases
• 53:48
  Speaker 13: might have gotten worse. This is an extreme regime that
• 53:52
  Speaker 13: hates Israel, it hates America and Americans It's going to
• 53:55
  Speaker 13: continue to target us here at home and abroad, and
• 53:58
  Speaker 13: it's brutal to its people. And until that fundamental fact changes,
• 54:02
  Speaker 13: we're going to have an Iran problem.
• 54:04
  Speaker 7: I started my career at the George W. Bush administration.
• 54:07
  Speaker 7: I worked on Iran in.
• 54:08
  Speaker 13: Two thousand and eight at the Bush NSC. We also
• 54:10
  Speaker 13: at the time got sucked into nuclear negotiations. I was
• 54:13
  Speaker 13: with Marco Rubio when the JCPOA was pushed forward by
• 54:16
  Speaker 13: the Obama administration, and the Senate tried to stop it
• 54:19
  Speaker 13: and we failed. Unfortunately, We've seen this playbook again and
• 54:23
  Speaker 13: again and again, and we're going.
• 54:25
  Speaker 7: To have in Iran problem as long as the Molas
• 54:27
  Speaker 7: are in charge of the regime.
• 54:29
  Speaker 13: And so there are things that we need to do
• 54:30
  Speaker 13: to elevate the plight of the Iranian people, to give
• 54:33
  Speaker 13: them tools to help themselves, whether it's internet access, pushing
• 54:37
  Speaker 13: them to free political prisoners, and right now we just
• 54:40
  Speaker 13: don't see any of those core issues related to their
• 54:43
  Speaker 13: fundamental aspirations reflected in the negotiations.
• 54:46
  Speaker 7: Unfortunately, thank you.
• 54:48
  Speaker 1: For reminding me that you are JGPOA fluent I leads
• 54:51
  Speaker 1: asked on Fox News just running by Daniel Prino, with
• 54:54
  Speaker 1: whom he worked about the JGPOA and the MoU and
• 54:59
  Speaker 1: I because Senator Reed said this is worse than the JCPOA,
• 55:04
  Speaker 1: and I think that that's absurd. The JCPOA was silent
• 55:07
  Speaker 1: on missiles and drones. President Trump's battle with Iran has
• 55:11
  Speaker 1: destroyed the missiles and drones and their ability to produce
• 55:14
  Speaker 1: some That right there means we're starting from a different baseline.
• 55:17
  Speaker 1: How do you assess people who say, oh, this is
• 55:19
  Speaker 1: JCPOA two point zero without even having seen it.
• 55:24
  Speaker 7: Look, I think you're right.
• 55:25
  Speaker 13: I mean Iran has been weakened from this military campaign. Obviously,
• 55:30
  Speaker 13: Operation Midnight Hammer last year was devastating to the Iranian
• 55:34
  Speaker 13: nuclear program, even if it didn't eliminate the threat entirely.
• 55:37
  Speaker 13: So we're dealing with a different Iran. However, what worries
• 55:40
  Speaker 13: me is I think the regime that is left is
• 55:43
  Speaker 13: even more hardened, going to be more resistant to change,
• 55:46
  Speaker 13: probably going to crack down on the Iranian people in
• 55:49
  Speaker 13: a more extreme way in the coming months and years.
• 55:53
  Speaker 13: And when it comes to JCPOA, I think one interesting
• 55:55
  Speaker 13: thing will be will we have a congressional debate about
• 55:57
  Speaker 13: this at all? Obviously, under the Iran Nuclear Agreement Review Act,
• 56:01
  Speaker 13: which which many of us were involved in writing set
• 56:04
  Speaker 13: of Rubio Champion.
• 56:05
  Speaker 7: At the time.
• 56:06
  Speaker 13: Commerce should have a say here, and so I do
• 56:08
  Speaker 13: think we need to discuss all of these issues. But
• 56:09
  Speaker 13: I do agree with your premise that this is this
• 56:12
  Speaker 13: is a weaker Iran than we were dealing with when
• 56:14
  Speaker 13: the JCPI was concluded. Hopefully no palts of cash this
• 56:16
  Speaker 13: time like during the JCPOA, but still like the JCPA,
• 56:20
  Speaker 13: we're not addressing the core issue with the regime.
• 56:23
  Speaker 1: Senator Graham has brought up the review law. He intends
• 56:26
  Speaker 1: to invoke the review law, and I'm sure I'll talk
• 56:28
  Speaker 1: to many others in the week's if there is a
• 56:31
  Speaker 1: deal after the MoU that will be subject to it.
• 56:33
  Speaker 1: Back to Freedom House, the index from Freedom House, there's
• 56:36
  Speaker 1: always been something I've looked forward to, but that was
• 56:39
  Speaker 1: very effective in the era of reading and magazines. Now
• 56:43
  Speaker 1: that we've gone to the online era. Over the weekend,
• 56:45
  Speaker 1: just since Thursday and Friday, there's been a battle of
• 56:48
  Speaker 1: the narratives between trolls and made up accounts and parody
• 56:52
  Speaker 1: accounts and fake accounts. How does Freedom House wage the
• 56:57
  Speaker 1: battle for freedom in the online era? And a simple
• 57:00
  Speaker 1: annual publication doesn't do much to keep up with the
• 57:03
  Speaker 1: tidal wave of knowledge.
• 57:06
  Speaker 13: It's a good point, but we're still doing the annual
• 57:09
  Speaker 13: report the longest running democracy indecks in the world fifty
• 57:12
  Speaker 13: three years.
• 57:13
  Speaker 7: We have fifty three years of data, but we're changing
• 57:15
  Speaker 7: how we present it.
• 57:17
  Speaker 13: We're leveraging technology, we're presenting in new formats to reach
• 57:20
  Speaker 13: younger generations.
• 57:21
  Speaker 7: We do feel it's.
• 57:22
  Speaker 13: Important, though, to maintain the data and the consistency over
• 57:24
  Speaker 13: time so we.
• 57:25
  Speaker 7: Can look at trends.
• 57:26
  Speaker 13: The other thing we do is through our programming and
• 57:28
  Speaker 13: our support to frontline activists, we're arming them with technological
• 57:32
  Speaker 13: tools to get internet access when their regimes are denying
• 57:36
  Speaker 13: them of such access, trying to help them eliminate spyware
• 57:40
  Speaker 13: from their phones that authorityan regimes may be using to
• 57:43
  Speaker 13: target them, and so really trying to leverage the best
• 57:46
  Speaker 13: of American technology to help frontline freedom fighters in a
• 57:48
  Speaker 13: way that wasn't possible during the Cold War, and also
• 57:52
  Speaker 13: funding investigative journalists and those are exposing the corruption, the
• 57:55
  Speaker 13: sanctions evasion that are used by authorityan regimes as well
• 57:59
  Speaker 13: as the propaganda that they're spreading. And so in each
• 58:02
  Speaker 13: of those areas we're combating the authoritarians directly around the world.
• 58:06
  Speaker 2: Last question.
• 58:07
  Speaker 1: Both Secretary Rubio and Vice President Vance have gone to
• 58:09
  Speaker 1: the Munich Conference to deliver warnings about freedom to our
• 58:13
  Speaker 1: European allies. Over the weekend, kir Starmer simply shuttered the
• 58:17
  Speaker 1: Internet to people under the age of sixteen. I understand
• 58:21
  Speaker 1: why he did that. It's not very free. What do
• 58:24
  Speaker 1: you make of that policy? What do you make of
• 58:26
  Speaker 1: Europe's you know, jump left overall when it comes to
• 58:30
  Speaker 1: freedom issues.
• 58:33
  Speaker 13: Yeah, I think it's something interestingly at Freedom House, although
• 58:36
  Speaker 13: you know we're often described as a human rights organization,
• 58:39
  Speaker 13: we have a pretty purest view of freedom, including freedom online,
• 58:43
  Speaker 13: and so we have another report called Freedom on the
• 58:45
  Speaker 13: Net we put out every year, and in that report,
• 58:47
  Speaker 13: if you look at the last year, we documented a
• 58:49
  Speaker 13: lot of the issues that are being raised by the
• 58:51
  Speaker 13: administration in the UK, in Germany where they have different
• 58:55
  Speaker 13: perceptions of freedom and more willingness than we do in
• 58:58
  Speaker 13: the US with our first amendments actually limit free speech online,
• 59:01
  Speaker 13: and so we have highlighted those concerns. I would say
• 59:04
  Speaker 13: the one difference we probably have and I personally have,
• 59:07
  Speaker 13: when we look at the grand scheme of things I
• 59:08
  Speaker 13: think we need to put everything in perspective. The UK
• 59:10
  Speaker 13: is not North Korea, Germany is not the Communist Party
• 59:14
  Speaker 13: of China, and so you know, we want to be
• 59:17
  Speaker 13: measured about how we respond, especially to allied.
• 59:20
  Speaker 1: Jamie Fly, president of Freedom House, thank you for joining me.
• 59:23
  Speaker 1: Freedom house dot org, freedomouse dot org. Did I get
• 59:25
  Speaker 1: the web address right, Jamie, freedomouse.
• 59:27
  Speaker 7: Dot org, freedom house dot org.
• 59:29
  Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, freedom house dot org. Go there, market, go
• 59:31
  Speaker 1: there often. Good to talk with you again, Jamie Fly,
• 59:34
  Speaker 1: President of Freedom House. Stay tuned coming back with Judge
• 59:37
  Speaker 1: Roy Altman in his book Israel On Trials. Don't go anywhere,
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  Speaker 2: Welcome back to America. I'm Hewlett.
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 1: I am joined by United States District Court Judge for
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 1: the Southern District of Florida, Roy Altman. He is the
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 1: author of this brand new book, Israel on Trial. Fabulous
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 1: book because for the first time I think a sity
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 1: in federal judge has taken on questions and answered made
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 1: rulings on a subject of controversy. Judge Altman, welcome. I
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 1: am not now, nor have I ever held myself out
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 1: to be a litigator. So I get anything wrong, Please
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 1: don't hold me out of order or disbar me. All right,
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 1: I've been practicing a long time. Hate to lose my
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 1: license on an interview.
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 8: I won't have you executed. I promise you. Thanks for
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 8: having me.
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 2: Good to have you.
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 1: I found this very persuasive. I first want to go
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 1: to motive before we moved through the six critical claims
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 1: that you deal with in an evidentiary rule of law
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 1: kind of way. Why the motive now, judge.
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 10: Well, because I came to this country from Venezuela with
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 10: my family when I was a little boy with nothing,
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 10: knowing no one, and I always learned here that if
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 10: you worked hard and treated people with respect, you could
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 10: be or do anything. Because we were a meritocratic society
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 10: that cared first and foremost about the rule of law,
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 10: and implicit in that is an understanding that the rule
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 10: of law and Western civilization more broadly can only survive
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 10: if people are good at thinking for themselves and discerning
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 10: truth from fiction. And after October seventh, I was deeply
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 10: concerned and remained concerned about the extent to which millions
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 10: of my fellow Americans, people that are my neighbors sometimes friends,
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 10: listen to things that are propagated by our geo strategic
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 10: enemies China, Russia and Iran about our most important orton's strategic.
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 8: Ally in the world and believe it, hook line and sinker.
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 10: Without using the time tested methodology that we in the
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 10: law have developed over hundreds of years to be able
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 10: to help people analyze contested claims. And so I traveled
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 10: around the country trying to understand why people believe these
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 10: totally false things about Israel in large numbers, and I
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 10: came to realize that the entire debate about Israel comes
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 10: down to these six main claims that people believe.
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 8: And the good news is one they're all.
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 10: Totally false, but two that we actually can recognize in
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 10: each of these claims that they are legal claims. At
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 10: their core, is Israel violating the laws of war, genocide
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 10: is Israel discriminating against its minority citizens. Apartheid is Israel
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 10: taking land that doesn't belong to it, occupation, colonialism. So
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 10: I thought, why not apply the same legal methodology that judges, lawyers,
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 10: and juries apply every day in this country, A time
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 10: tested methodology that's been around for hundreds of years, and
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 10: a methodology we know we trust because we use it
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 10: where truth telling matters the most. In the courtroom, to
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 10: each of these six claims and see what happens. And
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 10: that's why the book is called Israel on Trial.
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 1: All right, two nerdy questions. First, for maybe the lawyers
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 1: or the lawyer a jacent peace out there, We do
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 1: have standards for judging credibility, whether in the courtroom or
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 1: on a news channel or both in everywhere. Indeed, all
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 1: of us carry around a credibility monitor in our head.
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 1: When you go online, I refuse to read comments if
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 1: I don't know the poster, I don't put anything into it,
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 1: and I don't pay any attention. I said this on
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 1: Fox News earlier today. If it's coming from mayors or
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 1: Fars or one of the Iranian news agencies, I just
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 1: don't believe them because.
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 2: They have no credibility.
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 1: What's your test for credibility about people in the argument
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 1: about Israel?
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 10: This is really important, okay, because so much of the
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 10: evidence that I lay out in each of the six
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 10: chapters relies on the kind of tests that we as
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 10: lawyers and judges and juries use every day in the courtroom.
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 8: I'll give you a couple of examples, Okay.
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 10: The first example is that it's often better to get
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 10: your information by an objective or independent, third party source
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 10: than from a witness who has a vested stake in
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 10: the action. Right, So if a person from Gaza stands
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 10: up and says, hey, you know I had I'm a
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 10: doctor here and I'm totally independent from COMAS, and i
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 10: treated fifty people who were killed today, well we should
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 10: be very skeptical of that from the beginning. Right, we
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 10: know that Camas is a totalitarian regime. We know what
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 10: totalitarian regimes look.
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 8: Like around the world. They don't allow people to become
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 8: doctors or journalists.
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 10: For that matter, unless you're part of the program. You're
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 10: not going to get the licensure unless you're part of
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 10: the program. And so when a doctor or a journalist
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 10: says something from Gaza or as you were just saying,
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 10: if it comes from our geo strategic enemies, whether it's
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 10: the Muslim Brotherhood, the Chinese Communist Party on TikTok, or
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 10: certainly from the Iranian government, we've got to take that
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 10: with a significant grain of salt. So it's always better
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 10: to get things that no one can really dispute. So
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 10: what kinds of things am I talking about? Well, I
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 10: talk about this in chapter one of the book. Right
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 10: in terms of deciding whether you believe that Jews have
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 10: lived in the land between the Jordan River and the
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 10: Mediterranean Sea since ancient times. We can put aside what
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 10: so and so doctor from the Shifa Hospital and Gaza thinks.
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 10: We can put to one side what Rabbi so and
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 10: so from Jerusalem thinks. I'm not saying you shouldn't believe
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 10: the Bible. I certainly do, and there are many people
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 10: who do. I'm just saying, if you were trying to
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 10: assess the contested claim objectively, you can put that aside
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 10: if you want. But there are three buckets of totally
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 10: objective into and evidence that tell you that the people
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 10: who lived in the land between the Jordan River and
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 10: the Mediterranean Sea thousands of years ago were Jews who
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 10: spoke Hebrew, who practiced the Judaic religion, and who passed
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 10: on to their children and grandchildren the same naming conventions
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 10: that we Jews, and especially the Jews who live in
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 10: Israel today, still pass on to their children and grandchildren.
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 10: So what are those three buckets? The first I call
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 10: rocks in the ground. That's archaeological evidence going back thousands
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 10: of years.
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 8: The second is words on the page.
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 10: That's documentary evidence on papyrus and parchment and other paper,
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 10: oftentimes written by Israel's ancient adversaries. That's important because it
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 10: brings to the four two important credibility rules.
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 8: Like you asked for. The first is if a.
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 10: Party's adversary says something favorable to your claim, we pay
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 10: special attention. Everybody knows that Roy in his lawsuit about Roy,
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 10: is going to say things that are favorable to Roy. Fine,
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 10: But when your adversary, the ancient Babylonians, the Romans, the Assyrians,
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 10: the invasing, the invading Ottomans, say things that are favorable
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 10: to the Jews claim.
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 8: We got to pay special attention. The second rule that's
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 8: important there is that when you.
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 10: Said something long before you knew the dispute was going
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 10: to arise again, we give that special credibility, right because
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 10: if I said something twenty years ago before I ever
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 10: bought the house about which I would have a lawsuit
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 10: with my neighbor, before I even met that neighbor, and
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 10: that thing I said twenty years ago now plays directly
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 10: and is relevant in that dispute, we should.
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 8: Give it special credibility, right because I said.
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 10: It long before this dispute arose, and in this case,
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 10: lots of this evidence comes thousands of years before there
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 10: was ever such a thing as a Palestinian in the world.
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 8: And then the third and last it is blood in
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 8: the veins.
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 10: There have been dozens of genetic studies conducted on every
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 10: major Jewish population in the world showing that all the
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 10: major Jewish populations in the world are intimately and genetically
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 10: connected with one another, and.
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 8: That we all left and flowed from the Levant.
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 10: The land between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean Sea
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 10: two thousand years ago, just as the Bible says, just
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 10: as the archaeological and documentary proof shows. When three pieces
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 10: of evidence corroborate one another and they're objective in that way,
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 10: that's pretty dispositive proof.
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 1: There's more coming up with Judge Altman. You may have
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 1: gathered he was a prosecutor before he was a judge,
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 1: because he knows how to do an argument. We'll come
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 1: back and talk about Israel on Trial. His brand new
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 1: book is fascinating. You will learn a lot. If you
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 1: don't know much, you'll learn some. If you know much,
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 1: don't go anywhere. I'll come back and talk to Judge
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 1: Alton about Israel on Trial. Stay tuned, welcome back to
• 1:09:59
  Speaker 1: America to give you a Judge Altman is still with me.
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 2: Judge.
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 1: One of the things I like about your book is
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 1: its resource thick and it is source. A line that
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 1: means when I take a look at a book that,
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 1: for example, quotes historian Paul Johnson on page eighty six,
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 1: who points out the entire history of anti Semitism, demonstrates
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 1: how impervious it is to awkward facts, facts buried and
• 1:10:23
  Speaker 1: forgotten by the official propagandists along the way. That tells
• 1:10:26
  Speaker 1: me you've done your homework about non Jewish authors who
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 1: have written extensively on the history of the Jews and
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 1: the history of Israel. You also quote people like the
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 1: First King, who are saying you quote all sorts of
• 1:10:37
  Speaker 1: different people say you did your homework, so that's a
• 1:10:39
  Speaker 1: credibility and answer. I don't know if they teach evidence
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 1: at Yale. When I went to Michigan, I had the
• 1:10:44
  Speaker 1: great John Reed. Do they teach evidence at Yale?
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 10: Judge, that's kind of a really bad in any way,
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 10: not in any way that you would really understand it.
• 1:10:52
  Speaker 8: No, no, not at all.
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 1: I've hired a few Yaleys in my life from Yale
• 1:10:56
  Speaker 1: Loscow and they were all kind of unacquainted with civil
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 1: procedure and evidence. But don't change much. So you have
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 1: been You've been very specific here. Second question, long ago
• 1:11:06
  Speaker 1: and far away before I think you were born. I
• 1:11:09
  Speaker 1: clerked on the DC circd UP for a guy named
• 1:11:11
  Speaker 1: Roger rob Win. We had a case called Hannak Telehran
• 1:11:14
  Speaker 1: versus the United Arablivian Republic. It was a political question
• 1:11:17
  Speaker 1: case about a terrorism attack on the Hypha Highway dating
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 1: from the late seventies to early eighty I can't remember,
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 1: and Judge rob just had me writing out political question,
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 1: political question. He won't touch it for a political question doctrine.
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 1: Do you think Israel on trial is getting into political questions?
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 8: Definitely not. And so I think this is really important.
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 10: The first thing to say is I didn't write the
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 10: book as a judge, as I said, I wrote it
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 10: as an American who cares deeply about the truth and
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 10: the future prosperity both of this country and of Western
• 1:11:48
  Speaker 10: civilization more broadly. But second, if you read the book,
• 1:11:53
  Speaker 10: and I know, Hugh, based on the quotes you've just
• 1:11:55
  Speaker 10: given me, you've read it very carefully, you'll see that
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 10: the book is very much in line with what other
• 1:11:59
  Speaker 10: judge including Supreme Court justices, have written, which is it's
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 10: a book about history, it's a book about the law.
• 1:12:07
  Speaker 8: And I think it's.
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 10: Perfectly permissible to say here's what the history is, here's
• 1:12:12
  Speaker 10: what the rocks in the ground showed, here's what mer
• 1:12:14
  Speaker 10: Nepte Steely looks like, here's what the law requires, and
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 10: then to apply the law to those facts. People say
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 10: to me all the time, I don't want to read
• 1:12:22
  Speaker 10: your book because I hate Beebe or I don't like
• 1:12:25
  Speaker 10: Trump or whatever it is, and I say, you know what, great,
• 1:12:27
  Speaker 10: Neither of them really appears in the book at all,
• 1:12:30
  Speaker 10: because it's not a book about politicians, political parties, or
• 1:12:34
  Speaker 10: political issues. It's about history in the law and in
• 1:12:38
  Speaker 10: that way. I think it's very much in keeping with
• 1:12:40
  Speaker 10: what our canons require.
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 1: All right, So, Judge, I'm curious, have you been invited
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 1: a wide ranging way by America's law schools, which are
• 1:12:50
  Speaker 1: all fundament I'm still tenured professor at Chapman Law School,
• 1:12:54
  Speaker 1: teaching con law whenever I want to. But most of
• 1:12:57
  Speaker 1: the law schools in America have gone off the left
• 1:12:59
  Speaker 1: edge and they haven't got a lot to me or
• 1:13:01
  Speaker 1: you on their faculty. Have you been asked to lecture
• 1:13:04
  Speaker 1: at many America's law school yet?
• 1:13:06
  Speaker 10: Yes, I have, although not necessarily by the law school itself.
• 1:13:10
  Speaker 10: Many many times it's by organizations within the law school
• 1:13:14
  Speaker 10: or on the college campus. I've been to dozens and
• 1:13:17
  Speaker 10: dozens of college and law school campuses around the country.
• 1:13:20
  Speaker 10: It's usually some combination of the Federalist Society, the David Network,
• 1:13:25
  Speaker 10: the Jewish Law Students Association. Sometimes other groups will join.
• 1:13:29
  Speaker 10: But as a result of that is you well know,
• 1:13:32
  Speaker 10: these lectures are open to anyone on campus who would
• 1:13:36
  Speaker 10: like to participate, you know, so we get all kinds,
• 1:13:39
  Speaker 10: and I think that's a good thing.
• 1:13:40
  Speaker 2: And it's a good thing.
• 1:13:41
  Speaker 1: I hope you'll make it out to Chapman when I
• 1:13:42
  Speaker 1: am there. Now, let's get to the six key claims
• 1:13:44
  Speaker 1: about which you apply what I'll call American evident injury
• 1:13:48
  Speaker 1: standards as understood by a judge. You have to apply
• 1:13:50
  Speaker 1: them every day in the federal courtroom. Number one, the
• 1:13:53
  Speaker 1: Jews are colonists in the land of Israel. Number two
• 1:13:55
  Speaker 1: that Israel's founding was illegitimate or aberrational. Number three that
• 1:13:59
  Speaker 1: Israel has prevented the establishment of a Palestinian state. Number
• 1:14:02
  Speaker 1: four that Israel was occupying Gaza and it turned Godz
• 1:14:05
  Speaker 1: into an open air prisoner or a concentration camp before
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 1: October seven. Number five that Israel is an apartheid or
• 1:14:11
  Speaker 1: white supremacist state. Number six that Israel has committed genocide
• 1:14:15
  Speaker 1: in Gaza. Will deal with number seven in the next segment,
• 1:14:18
  Speaker 1: but let's just go to number four. That Israel was
• 1:14:23
  Speaker 1: occupying Gaza and turned it into an open air prison
• 1:14:26
  Speaker 1: or concentration camp before October seven. I got two minutes
• 1:14:29
  Speaker 1: left in this segment. Take it away, Judge Altman.
• 1:14:33
  Speaker 10: Yeah, Well, unfortunately, my family knows what a concentration camp
• 1:14:37
  Speaker 10: looks like. My mother's half brothers and sisters were pushed
• 1:14:40
  Speaker 10: into the gas chambers, little boys and little girl on
• 1:14:43
  Speaker 10: the day that they arrived and murdered there the chief
• 1:14:47
  Speaker 10: and I, as a judge and as a former prosecutor
• 1:14:50
  Speaker 10: before that, I'm intimately aware of what prisons are like.
• 1:14:53
  Speaker 10: The chief characteristic that both share in common is that
• 1:14:56
  Speaker 10: you can't do anything without asking the warden for permission,
• 1:15:00
  Speaker 10: and that you certainly aren't allowed to leave. But the
• 1:15:04
  Speaker 10: problem with this claim is that Israel fully withdrew from Gaza.
• 1:15:08
  Speaker 8: Way back in two thousand and five.
• 1:15:10
  Speaker 10: They said to the Palestinians, here's Gaza, it's yours.
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 8: Make what you will of this place. We want a divorce.
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 8: You have your own sovereignty.
• 1:15:18
  Speaker 5: We have our own.
• 1:15:19
  Speaker 8: The Palestinians elected their own government.
• 1:15:22
  Speaker 10: Lamas to run the Palestinian people, and Israel has many
• 1:15:26
  Speaker 10: times said you're free to leave if you want. It's
• 1:15:29
  Speaker 10: Hamas that has prevented them from leaving. That's the very
• 1:15:32
  Speaker 10: opposite of a concentration camp or prisoner.
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 1: I'll be back with more from Judge Altman brand new book,
• 1:15:39
  Speaker 1: Israel on Trial. It's in bookstores now Israel on Trial
• 1:15:42
  Speaker 1: and Amazon, don't miss it. I'll be right back with
• 1:15:45
  Speaker 1: the judge State Chaim Bocome back America. Judge Roy Altman
• 1:15:50
  Speaker 1: is my guest. His book is Israel on Trial, beautifully written,
• 1:15:53
  Speaker 1: beautifully orchestrated. Argued, I'm a lawyer, so I'm a sucker
• 1:15:58
  Speaker 1: for this stuff, and I'm a law of professor. I
• 1:15:59
  Speaker 1: like evidence and argument. I want to make sure I
• 1:16:02
  Speaker 1: get to two of the claims in our remaining eight minutes.
• 1:16:04
  Speaker 1: Judge from Israel on Trial, Israel has committed genocide in Gaza.
• 1:16:09
  Speaker 1: I think it's absurd, absolutely absurd of there were genociders
• 1:16:12
  Speaker 1: ever in the history of genocide. But that's not a
• 1:16:14
  Speaker 1: fact based argument. That's a conclusion driven rhetorical point. What
• 1:16:19
  Speaker 1: about the evidence on the genocide claim, Well.
• 1:16:23
  Speaker 10: The word genocide requires a specific intent to destroy the
• 1:16:27
  Speaker 10: Palestinian people.
• 1:16:29
  Speaker 8: In wholeer and part as such.
• 1:16:30
  Speaker 10: In other words, as we've seen from real genocides in history.
• 1:16:34
  Speaker 10: Think the Holocaust that part of my family had to
• 1:16:37
  Speaker 10: go through. Think about the Hutus against the tut season Rwanda,
• 1:16:40
  Speaker 10: the Armenian genocide. You have a top down architecture from
• 1:16:45
  Speaker 10: the governing regime to destroy.
• 1:16:47
  Speaker 8: Eliminate from the face of the earth the people in question.
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 10: You see this in the holocausts, right, there were twelve
• 1:16:54
  Speaker 10: million Jews remaining after the six or seven years of
• 1:16:57
  Speaker 10: the Holocaust. Before the Holocaust, there were eighteen million Jews.
• 1:17:01
  Speaker 10: That six million missing Jews in six or seven years
• 1:17:05
  Speaker 10: here in Gaza.
• 1:17:07
  Speaker 8: It's important to remember that the proponents of.
• 1:17:10
  Speaker 10: The genocide myth don't believe that there's only been one genocide.
• 1:17:13
  Speaker 10: Since October seventh, they have claimed, on five separate occasions
• 1:17:17
  Speaker 10: that Israel has perpetrated five separate genocides against the Palestinians
• 1:17:22
  Speaker 10: of Gaza, that is, five separate attempts to wipe them
• 1:17:25
  Speaker 10: off the face of the earth since Israel withdrew in
• 1:17:28
  Speaker 10: two thousand and five. Some of these involved situations where
• 1:17:31
  Speaker 10: Thamas attacked Israel, killed a few Jews, Israel did a reprisal,
• 1:17:35
  Speaker 10: maybe a few Palestinians were killed. That was called a genocide.
• 1:17:39
  Speaker 10: But here's the number discrepancy. When Israel withdrew from Gaza
• 1:17:43
  Speaker 10: in two thousand and five, there were million Palestinians there,
• 1:17:47
  Speaker 10: despite having five separate genocides perpetrated against them. In the
• 1:17:52
  Speaker 10: twenty years since. I think most of the numbers from
• 1:17:55
  Speaker 10: the CIA, of the Israelis and even the Gaza Health
• 1:17:57
  Speaker 10: Ministry agree the population has more than doubles.
• 1:18:01
  Speaker 8: Such that there is over two point two million.
• 1:18:04
  Speaker 10: Gossins in the area today. Either Israel hasn't committed any
• 1:18:09
  Speaker 10: genocide or were to believe that the country with up
• 1:18:12
  Speaker 10: thirty five's nuclear weapons and one of the most sophisticated
• 1:18:16
  Speaker 10: armies and air forces the world has ever known, has
• 1:18:19
  Speaker 10: been the most inept genocidal regime in the history of
• 1:18:24
  Speaker 10: the planet.
• 1:18:25
  Speaker 8: The reality is the reality is well stated.
• 1:18:29
  Speaker 1: That's what I'll say. That's that is conclusiony. Let's get
• 1:18:32
  Speaker 1: to the one that is the most important one in
• 1:18:34
  Speaker 1: the book. It's the seventh claim. People have to actually
• 1:18:36
  Speaker 1: read through all of Israel on Trial to find it,
• 1:18:39
  Speaker 1: which is that anti Zionism is an anti Semitism. This
• 1:18:43
  Speaker 1: one drives me crazy, Judge, because I run into it
• 1:18:46
  Speaker 1: all the time in broadcast settings and in classrooms saying, Oh,
• 1:18:49
  Speaker 1: I don't hate the Jews, I just don't like Zionism.
• 1:18:52
  Speaker 1: Oh I'm not anti Semitic, I'm just anti Zionist. Explain
• 1:18:57
  Speaker 1: your argument why that's impossible. If you're going to call
• 1:18:59
  Speaker 1: you yourself an anti Zionist, at least be honest about it.
• 1:19:02
  Speaker 2: You're an anti semi.
• 1:19:04
  Speaker 10: First of all, the entire history of anti Zionism was
• 1:19:08
  Speaker 10: always popular in the Soviet States and later in the
• 1:19:12
  Speaker 10: Arab world, precisely because it was understood to be anti Semitic.
• 1:19:16
  Speaker 10: In other words, anti Zionism, which started with Lebin and
• 1:19:20
  Speaker 10: Lenin in nineteen seventeen and then proliferated all through the
• 1:19:24
  Speaker 10: Arab world, became fashionable in states where anti Semitism was
• 1:19:28
  Speaker 10: fashionable because everyone.
• 1:19:29
  Speaker 8: Understood that the two were conjoined.
• 1:19:32
  Speaker 10: Now, of course it's unfashionable in most circles in the
• 1:19:34
  Speaker 10: West to be anc Semitic, so people are trying to
• 1:19:37
  Speaker 10: disassociate the two. But that's a historical anachronism. Second, we
• 1:19:42
  Speaker 10: have to recognize more than fifty.
• 1:19:44
  Speaker 8: Percent of the world's Jews live in Israel. So when
• 1:19:47
  Speaker 8: we say that, well, we don't like it.
• 1:19:50
  Speaker 10: When people take hostages in Africa, and we don't like
• 1:19:53
  Speaker 10: it when people commit kincide forcing men to have sex
• 1:19:57
  Speaker 10: with their daughters at gunpoint in Rwanda, but we're just
• 1:20:00
  Speaker 10: kind of okay with it when it happens to Jewish
• 1:20:03
  Speaker 10: boys and Jewish girls and Jewish fathers in Israel. There's
• 1:20:07
  Speaker 10: something deeply anti semitic about that. And then, third and lastly,
• 1:20:12
  Speaker 10: we have to understand. As Americans, we like to be
• 1:20:15
  Speaker 10: able to say we're going to criticize an American policy
• 1:20:18
  Speaker 10: without being anti American.
• 1:20:20
  Speaker 8: But the whole point of anti Zionism is the.
• 1:20:22
  Speaker 10: Belief that all people deserve a state of their own
• 1:20:25
  Speaker 10: where they can exercise sovereignty. The Japanese, the Bulgarians, the Koreans,
• 1:20:30
  Speaker 10: even the Palestinians, but Jews do not.
• 1:20:34
  Speaker 8: That is anti Semitism for all time.
• 1:20:38
  Speaker 1: And I wanted to close this, Judge by thanking you
• 1:20:41
  Speaker 1: for your time, but also by saying to anyone out
• 1:20:43
  Speaker 1: there who's wondering, this book really that good. It's been
• 1:20:47
  Speaker 1: endorsed by John Spencer, by Yvone Levin, by Mark Gerson,
• 1:20:51
  Speaker 1: Ambassador Friedman, John Podhoriz, Jed Rubin.
• 1:20:55
  Speaker 2: Felt up from the Eel Law School.
• 1:20:56
  Speaker 1: You really you got people to line up behind this project, Judge,
• 1:21:00
  Speaker 1: So my hat is off to you. On the marketing side,
• 1:21:03
  Speaker 1: how's it doing? Judges can't sell very well. I've had
• 1:21:06
  Speaker 1: justice as Barrett and Gorzich on the program, but they
• 1:21:10
  Speaker 1: have to be very careful about how they sell.
• 1:21:12
  Speaker 2: How is this selling?
• 1:21:15
  Speaker 8: It's kind of unbelieve you write.
• 1:21:16
  Speaker 10: A book on vacation like I did, and then you
• 1:21:20
  Speaker 10: think maybe your mother will read it, you know, And
• 1:21:22
  Speaker 10: we just passed I think twenty thousand copies.
• 1:21:25
  Speaker 8: According to the publisher sold.
• 1:21:27
  Speaker 10: Became an instant New York Times and USA Today bestseller,
• 1:21:31
  Speaker 10: which is the first time I've been happy with the
• 1:21:32
  Speaker 10: New York Times in about three years, and the publisher
• 1:21:36
  Speaker 10: just printed I think twenty five thousand more. It's been
• 1:21:40
  Speaker 10: a tremendous national bestseller, which has been a tremendous surprise
• 1:21:45
  Speaker 10: to me.
• 1:21:45
  Speaker 1: Well, I think it could actually serve as a core
• 1:21:49
  Speaker 1: foundational techt for a logical course on the claim surrounding Israel.
• 1:21:54
  Speaker 2: A last question.
• 1:21:55
  Speaker 1: I've refused to comment about the deal on the MLU
• 1:21:59
  Speaker 1: because I haven't seen it and read it yet. Do
• 1:22:01
  Speaker 1: you have any comment on it?
• 1:22:04
  Speaker 13: I like you.
• 1:22:05
  Speaker 10: I do this with trials when people come to me
• 1:22:07
  Speaker 10: and say, can't you believe how guilty that defendant is?
• 1:22:10
  Speaker 10: And some trial in San Jose that you've never really
• 1:22:13
  Speaker 10: heard of, I say, listen. I see trials all the
• 1:22:16
  Speaker 10: time where you hear the opening statement and most of
• 1:22:18
  Speaker 10: the case in chief, you think the case is going
• 1:22:20
  Speaker 10: to go one way, and then the other side gets
• 1:22:22
  Speaker 10: to say until you've lived it, seen it and breathed it.
• 1:22:26
  Speaker 10: You really don't know what the facts are, and you'd
• 1:22:28
  Speaker 10: be a fool to comment on it. That's especially true
• 1:22:31
  Speaker 10: of a deal I haven't had the opportunity to read,
• 1:22:35
  Speaker 10: and so for now I have no comment on it.
• 1:22:37
  Speaker 2: All right, we got one dayte laugh.
• 1:22:39
  Speaker 1: I love it when young judges go on the bench,
• 1:22:41
  Speaker 1: and I hope they stay forty years. A lot of
• 1:22:44
  Speaker 1: young judges, don't you ever? Do you have thought that
• 1:22:47
  Speaker 1: through how long you're going to stay on the bench,
• 1:22:49
  Speaker 1: because you're obviously a public manu when you enjoy the
• 1:22:51
  Speaker 1: controversy in the debate, are you going to stay in
• 1:22:53
  Speaker 1: chambers for a long time?
• 1:22:55
  Speaker 8: That's my plan?
• 1:22:56
  Speaker 10: I mean people said to me when I was thirty
• 1:22:58
  Speaker 10: four and the President was going to note me to
• 1:23:00
  Speaker 10: be a federal judge, You're crazy. You got your whole
• 1:23:02
  Speaker 10: life ahead of you to make money. And to me,
• 1:23:05
  Speaker 10: you know, this privilege that I've had to serve the
• 1:23:08
  Speaker 10: community and the country that welcomed my family with open
• 1:23:11
  Speaker 10: arms when we came from South America, It's been the
• 1:23:14
  Speaker 10: great blessing and honor of my life, and I'm really
• 1:23:17
  Speaker 10: grateful that I've had this opportunity.
• 1:23:19
  Speaker 1: Judge allmand good to meet you virtually on the network,
• 1:23:22
  Speaker 1: and I look forward to meeting you sometime in person.
• 1:23:25
  Speaker 2: Israel on Trial available.
• 1:23:27
  Speaker 1: At Amazon right now, at Barnesandnoble dot com and bookstores everywhere.
• 1:23:31
  Speaker 1: Israel on Trial by Jodd roy Alfan Southern deffict A, Florida.
• 1:23:35
  Speaker 1: And I think court differ judgment. I don't go anywhere America.
• 1:23:38
  Speaker 1: Be right back to close Up Today program