Latest / All Figured Out with Andrea Barr: Figuring Out Work, Life and Parenting / 22. Dr. Jen Harrison on figuring out if more education is what you need to grow your career

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22. Dr. Jen Harrison on figuring out if more education is what you need to grow your career · All Figured Out with Andrea Barr: Figuring Out Work, Life and Parenting

• 0:00
  Welcome back to the all figured out podcast.
• 0:02
  My name is Andrea bar. I am your host and today we are
• 0:06
  talking about higher education. And how do you even make the
• 0:10
  decision on? If you want to go back to
• 0:12
  school? What are their conditions in,
• 0:14
  which will actually help you to advance your career?
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  And how do you make such a big life decision, especially when
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  you're a parent and you're in, maybe the mid stages or kind of
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  early to mid stages of your career.
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  Today, I have the pleasure of interviewing after Jen Harrison,
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  who is a PhD in children's literature actually and she is
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  now a dissertation coach. So she helps people work on
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  their dissertations in their masters or graduate level
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  studies people who were doing phds and things like that.
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  So, I invited dr. John Harrison to come on the
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  podcast, because I work with so many different people who come
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  to me and say I'm considering doing some sort of Education.
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  I'm considering going back to school and I just don't know
• 0:57
  what I want to do. Maybe it's an MBA and maybe it
• 1:02
  will help my career. And so dr.
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  Jenn is actually going to be breaking down different types of
• 1:07
  Education. What are some of the
• 1:08
  considerations? What are the things you should
• 1:10
  really be thinking about? And what are the situations
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  where getting more education can truly help you to advance your
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  career, dr. John Harrison is a mom of two as
• 1:19
  well. So she gives really, really
• 1:21
  practical advice from the perspective of a parent and she
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  works actually with a lot of women of color who are also
• 1:27
  parents and so she has a lot of experience.
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  It's in coaching and working with people who are making
• 1:32
  considerations for their educational Pursuits or working
• 1:35
  through dissertations. So without further Ado dr.
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  John Harrison your listening to the all figured out podcast.
• 1:43
  I'm your host Aundrea bar. As a career coach for parents, a
• 1:49
  mom and entrepreneur. And someone who spent ten plus
• 1:52
  years in the corporate world, I still don't have it all figured
• 1:55
  out and maybe you don't. Either this podcast, I'll share
• 1:59
  tools and strategies that I use as my clients and in the many
• 2:02
  areas where I don't have things figured out.
• 2:04
  I'll be bringing you some amazing guest experts to help us
• 2:07
  fill in the gaps. So tune in each week as we
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  explore how to make career and life decisions that truly work
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  for you, your family and your big goals.
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  Let's make moves. Dr. John Harrison.
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  Thank you so so much for joining me on the all figured out
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  podcast. I am really excited for the
• 2:25
  audience, to get to know your today.
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  And before we get started, I would love to just have you
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  introduce yourself and just share a bit about your career
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  story. So us.
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  So, so I always wanted to be a teacher like I knew, right?
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  From when I was a little kid in school teaching, people is what
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  I wanted to do and I am kind of I've been torn between two
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  worlds for quite a long time because I've lived as a child in
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  the UK, but every few years, my parents would kind of move me
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  back to the US and then back to the UK and then back to the US.
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  So, I've had a foot on both sides of the pond for a while,
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  as well, when I finished high school in the u.s., I went back
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  to the UK, I got a literature degree and Olivia PhD and I
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  taught in University there. I trained as a secondary school
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  teacher so like high school. So I taught High School in the
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  UK and then I opened a homeschooling business.
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  So for kids who didn't really want to go to school and
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  couldn't go to school. I would teach them and give them
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  private tuition and then I had my kids and the UK.
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  I don't know if you've ever been there but it's very small and
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  it's houses are very small. And it's spaces are very small
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  and once you've got two toddlers in those very small spaces, you
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  suddenly see the benefits of living in the u.s.
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  So I'm so that's what mean my husband did we decided?
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  Okay, these children cannot be contained within this country.
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  Any longer we're gonna the u.s. never heard that before.
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  Yeah, it really was a bit like that.
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  They don't fit here. Oh my God.
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  I should add as well. My kids have ADHD and like,
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  obviously we didn't know that at the time, but now it's 100% make
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  sense. Like, why neighbors would knock
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  on the door and say like your baby's in the window upstairs?
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  Window, like hanging onto the frame, they used to climb walls
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  and climb windows and a pretty much climb anything actually.
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  So yeah, very tiny house to very hyperactive toddler.
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  So we came to the us where we were able to get him.
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  At our house, it was great. But um, so when I came to the
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  US, I taught at my local State University and I was doing that,
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  you know, for a good five years or so.
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  And then covid hit and it seems like a good opportunity to Pivot
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  to doing something else. You know, I'd missed my home
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  schooling business that I'd had in the UK.
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  And I could see that the students here weren't getting
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  the kind of support that they needed in college and especially
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  after covid. Hit, you know, when everything
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  switched to remote learning and virtual this and virtual that
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  like people needed Need help. And so I opened my coaching
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  business at that point. And that's what I've been doing
• 4:54
  ever since. So now I help people realize
• 4:57
  their potential, like I give them the tools that they need
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  the processes, the ways of working and like, I'm really
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  passionate about making sure that people have what they need
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  to achieve the goals, and the dreams that they have when they
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  go into higher education and the bulk of my students are women of
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  color. So just like me and I kind of
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  see my role as filling in the gaps that Are there with what
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  they're getting from other places.
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  So their institutions and their supervisors and so forth.
• 5:24
  Don't always able to provide everything that they need and my
• 5:27
  role is to kind of fill that Gap.
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  What did the biggest biggest areas of opportunity that you
• 5:32
  see that clients coming to you looking for supported?
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  Oh my goodness. So like a big one is like just
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  not knowing what it is, they should be doing in their
• 5:41
  degrees. So there's a lot of Like there's
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  this culture that once you get into a grad degree, you already
• 5:48
  know what you're doing and you should be working really
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  independently. So they don't get a lot of
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  support and information about what they should be doing and
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  the quality of work, they should be producing, they get a lot of
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  negative feedback but I don't get a lot of guidance and so
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  they come to me really frustrated.
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  Like I've been told that I have to rewrite this thing for the
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  seventh time but I still don't know what it is.
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  They're looking for from me. So I get a lot of that.
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  Like just here is what a dissertation should look like.
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  Like here's why your this is keeps coming back to you.
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  You and here's how you can fix it.
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  But then I also get like a lot of, you know, that doing a
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  graduate degree is quite a heavy mental load.
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  And so, students often get frustrated or they feel stuck or
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  they suffer with low motivation. And so, a lot of them come to me
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  just to have somebody like there that they can talk to not just
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  ask questions, but just like to share frustrations and to be
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  reassured that they're doing the right thing.
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  And to have somebody keeping them accountable like Come on.
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  You know. You are doing this for a reason
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  so don't pull us now. Let's keep going.
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  Come on. I'm there with you.
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  So let's let's keep going with this.
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  Wow. Well, is that so parallel to
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  everything in life? Just we all just need to?
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  But we need people, we have to work together, we have to work
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  with other people who are experts in their own fields, to
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  just get that support. And sometimes reassurance
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  sometimes an entire coaching call can just be you're doing
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  the right thing. You're doing great.
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  Yeah. From somebody that who isn't
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  just like your mom who's going to tell you that no matter what.
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  It's so it's so true. Oh my goodness, it's so true.
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  Can you break it down? Before we, I have so many
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  questions for you about, you know, helping this audience to
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  really understand if they want to take more education.
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  But before we get into that, can you break down for me?
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  What does, what is a dissertation?
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  Like, if you were to explain it in you, you are a trained
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  teacher. So in canto kindergarten terms,
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  even not even secondary school terms.
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  What is it dissertation? What does that process?
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  What is it all about? We hear these words but I don't
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  know anything about it. Sure.
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  So when you go for an advanced degree so like anything after To
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  graduate degree, like, your basic bachelor's degree.
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  Usually, there is an option at the end of your degree to do,
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  like a big either Capstone project, or a writing project,
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  and if there's a writing component to it, that's, that's
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  your dissertation. So, the degree itself will teach
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  you a whole lot of research skills and a lot of topic,
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  contents. And then for your dissertation
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  for that end project. The idea is that you pick
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  something that you want to explore more detail.
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  Usually, Something that needs more explanation or more
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  exploration or more research on it and you design a project
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  where you are going to conduct the research collect the data
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  and then write up what you found.
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  So like in kindergarten terms think of it as designing and
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  executing an experiment that no one's really dumb or done enough
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  before and then you write about it.
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  So the dissertation is the bit where you write about it and
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  then you can take that and you know when people say oh I have
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  published studies or could you You then somebody could pick up
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  your dissertation and use it as part of their research.
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  I'm thinking of like the old-school bibliography.
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  Yes. Yes 100%.
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  Yeah. And I love you stations.
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  Do start with other people's dissertations.
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  Okay. It's like if you wanted to
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  become a professional researcher, your dissertation is
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  like your training wheels, for that process and then it's also
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  like your first piece of published research.
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  So cool. That's so interesting.
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  So you could come out with a this incredible degree.
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  And a basically a product? Yes.
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  Like something that is yours that you own.
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  Yes. And that you are the expert in
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  still. A lot of my students will do a
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  dissertation on something that they are passionate about.
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  And when they finish, they open a business that markets their
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  expertise in that area. Very cool.
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  What was the motivation for you to go and tackle a PhD?
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  It's sounds like a lot of work. So my motivation was really that
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  I just wanted to stay in school. I was really enjoying myself.
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  I was enjoying studying literature and I didn't really
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  want to stop so I didn't have nearly such a good excuse for
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  cancer but you know for doing a PhD How did you choose your
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  dissertation topic? What was the topic that you
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  chose? Yeah.
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  I was trying to remember this yesterday.
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  I think it was and I think I was sitting in my boyfriend's,
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  living room like staring at one of his bookshelves and saw like
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  the Winnie, the Pooh books on the shelf and thought the whole
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  man, like I haven't looked at these books since I was a kid
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  but I really enjoyed them. I wonder if it's possible to
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  study them and that was that ended up being, you know, I
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  ended up Doing a PhD on children's literature, so so
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  sweet. Oh my goodness.
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  Winnie the Pooh. I mean, I have a toddler but I
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  haven't even that's one. We haven't introduced.
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  Got to get back to that. Such a good one.
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  Yeah. And then you can go on holiday
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  in like visit poohsticks bridge and the Hundred Acre Wood.
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  It's great, but it's so cool. Okay.
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  When someone's thinking about going back to school there are
• 10:54
  so many options available. I'm speaking as a career coach
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  and I would say 50 to 75 percent of the time that I have an intro
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  call to somebody they say, I don't know what I want to do
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  next. I'm considering an MBA or I'm
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  considering going back to school.
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  I don't even know what in and I don't know what.
• 11:10
  For could you first of all, actually just break down the
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  different types of higher education that a person might
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  pursue or like, what are the options to say a person has
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  finished completed high school and maybe let's say even a
• 11:23
  degree and they want to quote unquote, go back to school, like
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  what could that look like for somebody?
• 11:29
  Okay, so this kind of five top choices like five of the most
• 11:35
  common and the differences between them really have to do
• 11:40
  with how much of an expert you want to be, and how much time
• 11:47
  and research you want to put in. So I'll start at the bottom and
• 11:51
  kind of work my way up to the top of the most advanced ones.
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  So, right at the bottom you've got and it's not the bottom like
• 11:58
  it's just the quickest. Yes.
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  Yeah, you have diplomas and certificates and like licenses.
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  So, these are, they're very quick.
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  Usually. And the reason that they're very
• 12:13
  quick is that they're they don't try and cover a lot of material,
• 12:16
  they try and cover one, small specific thing.
• 12:18
  But in great depth, and the point of these is to prove your
• 12:22
  competence, like, you'll get a certificate that says you are
• 12:25
  competent to do this. You know, moving forward.
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  So, So a really good example, if my getting a cosmetology
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  certificate that licenses you and certifies that you are
• 12:38
  competent and capable to give someone a manicure.
• 12:40
  Does that make sense? Totally.
• 12:42
  Yes. I love the way that you put that
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  in how its drilling down deep into one topics.
• 12:46
  It's not to negate that, oh it's just a certificate know you're
• 12:49
  becoming an expert in something super specific.
• 12:52
  That's really cool and it's because you have a super
• 12:54
  specific goal afterwards like you would do that license
• 12:56
  because you want to be a manicurist or you want to open
• 12:59
  them? Cheering business and the state
• 13:01
  like you can get licenses as a nurse, for example, different
• 13:05
  types of nursing so that you are licensed to be an
• 13:09
  anesthesiologist or your license to work in mental health.
• 13:12
  So it's not like, Oni simple things that you can get a
• 13:17
  license in. There are kind of licenses for
• 13:19
  all different professions, but they're very, very specific and
• 13:22
  they don't take as long as other degrees to complete.
• 13:25
  So that's kind of diplomas and certificates.
• 13:27
  Then you have the associate degree.
• 13:29
  And that is usually a two year degree if you're doing it
• 13:31
  full-time, a lot of people take them at a community college,
• 13:35
  they're quick to complete their pretty affordable and these are
• 13:38
  really great as a launching place to either like the next
• 13:42
  little step in your career or to a four-year degree of.
• 13:45
  You're not quite sure that you're ready for a four-year
• 13:47
  bachelor's degree. Like these are a good place to
• 13:49
  start to get a feel for the subject and to just get yourself
• 13:53
  started. Really So, like, I think there
• 13:56
  is research out there. People can look up the research
• 13:59
  on things like like indeed.com. Those kind of sites will give
• 14:03
  you proper statistics and things, but like with an
• 14:07
  Associate Degree. If you've had no degree before
• 14:09
  that you're you're able to demand a higher salary like on
• 14:12
  average people do get a higher salary when they have an
• 14:15
  associate's degree so it can give you that little career
• 14:17
  boost but it can also launch you into kind of further study
• 14:20
  afterwards. All that's going to do you think
• 14:23
  that I don't know if this is a relevant question but Did you
• 14:26
  roll that into a four-year degree for like, oh yes.
• 14:28
  I'm studying social work and I'm loving this.
• 14:31
  I want to keep going. You could use credits towards a
• 14:34
  full-time or four-year degree. Yeah.
• 14:36
  They're very very often I think that's very common and that's
• 14:38
  what I mean when I say like it's a launching off point, like you
• 14:41
  can do the associate degree and just be done and not do anything
• 14:44
  further. But you can also like, take that
• 14:46
  and build it into a four-year degree.
• 14:48
  Like you can transfer your credits or whatever, and that
• 14:51
  depends on the institutions, but that it's really commonly done.
• 14:55
  Okay, I don't know. I didn't know that.
• 14:57
  I don't know how many people know that.
• 14:58
  That's really, really cool. Very good to know.
• 15:01
  So that's that one. And then sew the other
• 15:04
  undergraduate degree is a bachelor's degree in.
• 15:06
  This is what like, most people imagine when they think of going
• 15:08
  to college After High School. So this is the four-year degree.
• 15:11
  You kind of cover all of the basic subjects and then you have
• 15:14
  a special is MM, which is your major and sometimes people pick
• 15:17
  a minor as well. But like, you have a thing that
• 15:19
  you're studying plus, like, a well-rounded body of information
• 15:23
  on other things so you'll use you Some math classes, you'll
• 15:26
  usually take some literature and writing classes but then you'll
• 15:29
  also take specialist subjects as well.
• 15:32
  So for example, if you were going to study for sport Science
• 15:35
  degree you'd be taking like really specific sport science
• 15:37
  classes and it's, you know, it's usually four years of you're
• 15:40
  doing it full time and at the end of it, you've got a
• 15:41
  Bachelor's degree and again, like there are proven increases
• 15:45
  in salary and kind of job level and that kind of thing that come
• 15:49
  with having a degree like that. Then after bachelor's degree,
• 15:53
  you've got kind of two. Two options for postgraduate,
• 15:57
  assuming you're not doing like a postgraduate certificate or
• 16:00
  diploma, what's, we've kind of already, you know?
• 16:02
  Because those could be add-ons, sort of payoff can be.
• 16:04
  Yeah, they can be add-ons to, like many different types of
• 16:07
  degree at all, different levels. So they're kind of their own
• 16:09
  thing, but in terms of postgraduate degrees, you have
• 16:13
  Masters, and you have doctoral, these are, these are kind of
• 16:17
  hierarchical. So, you wouldn't normally go for
• 16:20
  a doctoral degree. Unless you've also got a
• 16:21
  master's first. But you can get a masters and
• 16:25
  just stop there. So the master's degree is
• 16:27
  usually two years of full-time. If the first type of graduate
• 16:30
  degree, you can earn it's commonly pursued by individuals
• 16:34
  who want to boost their careers to the next level.
• 16:35
  So, something like an MBA, that's a masters in business and
• 16:39
  it is like, really common in business and in marketing and
• 16:42
  feels like that and it gives you a status and it gives you higher
• 16:46
  earning potential. So these are like really well
• 16:48
  respected degrees. Like they show that you have
• 16:51
  enough commitment to your career that you're And we're going to
• 16:54
  push it to that next level. So if you're thinking of like
• 16:59
  starting a business or you're thinking of like running for one
• 17:02
  of those management positions like that's often the point at
• 17:04
  which people will think about a master's degree and then the
• 17:07
  last one is the doctoral degree. So this is where it you know,
• 17:10
  you've done your Masters and you thank you.
• 17:11
  I'm really loving research. I kind of want to keep going.
• 17:13
  I want more expertise like I really want to make this my
• 17:16
  specialism. You can do a doctoral degree and
• 17:19
  that is typically four years after a master's.
• 17:22
  So you're investing a lot of time.
• 17:23
  At this point, but it makes you the top expert in your field and
• 17:28
  I say the top expert, like not one of the top experts, remember
• 17:32
  we talked about the dissertation having that project that you do,
• 17:35
  that's really specific. By the time you finish.
• 17:38
  The idea is that you're the person in the world who knows
• 17:40
  the most about that thing. Wow.
• 17:44
  And so these degrees are really for people who are either aiming
• 17:47
  to work in higher education. So they want to be a professor
• 17:50
  or they want to work in industry or in research.
• 17:53
  So they Really want to be kind of at The Cutting Edge of what's
• 17:56
  going on in their fields does a doctorate always include
• 18:00
  research. Yes, okay.
• 18:02
  Okay, interesting, as far as I know, actually I've said that I
• 18:05
  haven't like actually on them like check that every single
• 18:08
  person and every degree but I've never come across one that
• 18:10
  didn't. Mmm, how do you think?
• 18:13
  I mean going back to the higher education if you want to work in
• 18:15
  higher education and typically like when I think back to my
• 18:18
  professors, most of them had phds in there because they were
• 18:22
  one of the top experts or the You talk back store it in their
• 18:24
  field. Do you believe that people who
• 18:27
  go straight into their doctorate and then go into teaching, do
• 18:30
  believe that there are some misses there where people kind
• 18:34
  of lack Real World experience for application.
• 18:38
  I think it depends on the person that depends on the feels and it
• 18:41
  depends on the institution that they were studying at because a
• 18:44
  lot of these degrees it's really hard to do a dissertation
• 18:48
  without having that kind of contact because a lot of that
• 18:50
  research takes you out and makes you talk to people and get The
• 18:53
  data in the real world. So there is that side of things.
• 18:58
  A lot of individuals are motivated Enough by their topic
• 19:01
  anyway that they're doing that kind of extra real-world work as
• 19:05
  well. And and then like a lot of
• 19:08
  Institutions will provide in their programs opportunities for
• 19:12
  for real-world experiences to kind of build that up.
• 19:16
  So like I really think it varies.
• 19:17
  Like you can definitely get people who just go straight into
• 19:21
  teaching and really haven't built up that.
• 19:23
  Expertise. And then you get others who just
• 19:26
  have because they were motivated to do it.
• 19:27
  Well, thank you for breaking that down.
• 19:29
  First of all, that's super helpful.
• 19:30
  I just learned so much and I want to know if we could go back
• 19:34
  to that, that example of an MBA, I would say there's people
• 19:37
  listening especially this audience and I would say a high
• 19:41
  percentage of those who are listening right now have at some
• 19:44
  point in their life. I'm raising my hand consider
• 19:47
  doing an MBA, what would you say?
• 19:49
  So you talked about, you know, career progression potentially
• 19:52
  starting a business. What would be some of the
• 19:54
  reasons why you would actually maybe dissuade somebody from
• 19:58
  doing an MBA based on their motivations, okay, I would say.
• 20:04
  Like talk message here probably is a degree is not a magic wand
• 20:09
  to get you anywhere. You want to get in life.
• 20:10
  So that's kind of the first message.
• 20:12
  A degree is a tool, just like any other tool, sometimes it
• 20:15
  will be appropriate, sometimes it won't.
• 20:18
  So there are, there are a lot of challenges to doing an advanced
• 20:23
  degree and there are a lot of benefits as well.
• 20:25
  I would say, two people figure out your endgame first so like
• 20:28
  imagine where you want to be at the end of the path.
• 20:30
  Where is it? You're trying to get to decide
• 20:32
  that before you do anything else.
• 20:34
  Because just like, You know, if you're trying to fix a broken
• 20:38
  door, like there's no point, getting all your tools out.
• 20:41
  Unless you know what you want, the end product to be because
• 20:44
  you need a different set of tools to fix the door.
• 20:46
  Then you do to fix a broken light, you know?
• 20:48
  So the degree is the tool. You need to work out what your
• 20:51
  endgame is first to work out if that's going to be the right
• 20:54
  tool for you. And then I would say, do some
• 20:57
  research on all the different ways.
• 20:59
  It's possible to get there because a lot of people go into
• 21:01
  these degrees because they kind of can't think of any other way
• 21:05
  to get where they want to go. Or they know, they want to make
• 21:08
  an accept and that degree, seems like an obvious one because so
• 21:11
  many people do it, but they haven't really done the
• 21:13
  research. So, like just for example, like,
• 21:15
  if you wanted to be somebody who writes cookbooks like, that's
• 21:19
  your end game, a culinary degree, isn't your only option
• 21:22
  and a writing degree? Isn't your only option like you
• 21:24
  can gain experience on? The job, you could become a food
• 21:27
  blogger or social media presence.
• 21:28
  Like there's all these different options for getting you there.
• 21:30
  So you need to work out like which of those options sounds
• 21:33
  like one that will fit with your lifestyle and the things that
• 21:36
  you enjoy and which one is going to feel like a real headache and
• 21:39
  like not worth the end game result that you get like list
• 21:45
  out. What are all your different
• 21:46
  options? Not just a degree.
• 21:48
  What else could you do to get there?
• 21:49
  And then for each one, like, think about what are the
• 21:54
  challenges? This path.
• 21:56
  And then what sacrifices will I have to make it look like, I
• 21:59
  know what the benefit will be able get me to where I want to
• 22:01
  go, but what are going to be the challenge in sacrifices.
• 22:04
  So like that culinary culinary degree, it's a huge expense, and
• 22:08
  a huge time commitment, but also really high Prestige.
• 22:11
  So it's it does that balance for you.
• 22:12
  Like you want that high Prestige enough to spend the money in the
• 22:15
  time, being a presence on social media.
• 22:18
  It's cheaper gains you instant exposure, but it also requires a
• 22:20
  lot of your time and a lot of independent working, if you
• 22:23
  know, straight up that you can only work like an hour a week
• 22:27
  and you don't really have the time to focus and you're not
• 22:31
  great at managing your own. Like that's not going to be the
• 22:33
  option for you. So you've kind of got to do the
• 22:36
  pros and cons for all your options that really makes sense.
• 22:40
  And that's a really cool way of putting it.
• 22:42
  Just having to really think first, I mean, doing work with.
• 22:46
  The, you have somebody, like me, a career coach, who can really
• 22:48
  help you get clarity on the end game like, what, where you
• 22:52
  trying to go and then using education as just Of the options
• 22:56
  and exploring the other. I think that's a huge, huge
• 22:59
  Point. There's a sound bite right
• 23:00
  there. I think that's something.
• 23:01
  We forget. And I wonder if my hypothesis
• 23:04
  would be the people feeling so confused and so conflicted.
• 23:08
  And how do I get to this huge goal that I have and higher
• 23:12
  education? You go online, you see what the
• 23:16
  syllabus is you see how structured it is, like that kind
• 23:19
  of gives you a bit of comfort. I mean I did post like I did
• 23:22
  graduate school, I did a graduate certificate.
• 23:25
  It. And that was a really lovely way
• 23:28
  for me to do it. I did have to kind of way, you
• 23:30
  know, is this going to work with my schedule?
• 23:32
  Is this going to work with my life?
• 23:34
  Is this going to give me the specialization that I'm after?
• 23:36
  Yes, yes yes, yes, yes. And I will also say there was a
• 23:39
  part of me that looked at the the syllabus online or the the
• 23:42
  course outline has like oh this feels so nice.
• 23:45
  Like this takes up a lot of thinking I could have done it
• 23:48
  kind of an ad hoc ways and actually got my credential, you
• 23:51
  know, not via that route or these ones that are bit more
• 23:53
  self-serve but I personally just needed a bit of structure and
• 23:57
  focus because I knew that I wouldn't be able to complete it
• 24:00
  on my own. Yeah, that's a really kind of
• 24:03
  good points to make a degree, does give you that.
• 24:07
  Like, it is a commitment, so it kind of forces you to stay with
• 24:10
  it for a bit and it gives you that structure that you might
• 24:14
  not know how to put together a way forward.
• 24:17
  But again, that's somewhat something that a coach can help
• 24:19
  with like a coach. Like, you can help people to
• 24:22
  work out. Like, what are the steps that
• 24:24
  you could take to get? Get to this end goal and I'm
• 24:26
  guessing you look can also help people work out like one of my
• 24:28
  strengths. What a my weakness is one of my
• 24:30
  time commitments. Like what actually matters to
• 24:31
  me. Hmm.
• 24:33
  What are the gaps? Like what are you?
• 24:34
  This is your end goal. Like what's actually missing in
• 24:36
  your life in your tool kit to use your analogy.
• 24:39
  I'd love for you to talk as somebody who has done and is an
• 24:42
  expert in higher, education and education in general.
• 24:45
  You're a mom of two, what lifestyle considerations should
• 24:49
  a person think about when they're evaluating these
• 24:51
  options. I know you mentioned lifestyle.
• 24:52
  That's a big one. Oh, yeah.
• 24:54
  Okay, so A degree is going to involve a really heavy time
• 24:57
  commitment and I think most people know that already, but it
• 25:02
  is also going to involve a lot of knocks to your self-esteem
• 25:04
  and like you're you're feeling of comfort, like your comfort
• 25:09
  level, because you're going to need to learn and grow.
• 25:11
  You're going to deal with endless revisions.
• 25:13
  There's going to be a lot of contacts with people of so many
• 25:16
  different mindsets and perspectives.
• 25:19
  There's going to be a lot of writing.
• 25:21
  A lot of reading so much learning, and you're going to
• 25:24
  have to do a lot of of it off your own back like it.
• 25:26
  Like I said, it these degrees assume a lot of Independent
• 25:31
  Learning on your part. So you're going to need like the
• 25:33
  processes and you're going to need to be setting your own
• 25:36
  goals and you're going to need to get real good at
• 25:38
  communication and you're going to have to deal with a lot of
• 25:40
  uncertainty. Now like I said, I'm a mom of
• 25:42
  two. I have two children who are
• 25:44
  quite hard work. I love them, but they are hard
• 25:47
  work. They have ADHD.
• 25:48
  They have behavioral problems. One of them might be autistic.
• 25:52
  So like they require a lot of time and I think He's a parent.
• 25:56
  Feels the same like your family, your kids necessarily demand a
• 25:59
  lot of your time and a lot of your attention and often are
• 26:03
  quite a heavy burden on both your good mood and your bad mood
• 26:06
  like your mental health, whichever way it's going to
• 26:08
  swing that day. It's all going to be down to
• 26:09
  your kids. When you take on that higher
• 26:12
  degree, you've got to realize that like, we all want to give
• 26:15
  everything to our kids and our families.
• 26:18
  You're going to be split like your commitments and your
• 26:21
  attention, and your focus and even your passions because
• 26:25
  Because presumably you're doing this degree because it's
• 26:26
  something you care about. So suddenly you're going to find
• 26:29
  everything has split like half or more to your family but also
• 26:32
  half or more to degree that I think is the biggest mindset
• 26:37
  change that people should expect and kind of prepare for if they
• 26:40
  decide they're going back to school.
• 26:42
  Like understand that this institution is going to demand
• 26:45
  everything you've got and it's going to be down to you to draw
• 26:48
  the lines and to create the boundaries and to decide what's
• 26:51
  important to you and how much you can give and how much you
• 26:53
  need to save back for Family, and your kids.
• 26:56
  Hmm. Setting the Imagine setting
• 26:58
  those systems in place to if you have a partner working with a
• 27:01
  partner to figure out how that's going to work communicating with
• 27:04
  your children. If they're, you know, they can
• 27:07
  talk and understand things and and having the systems in place.
• 27:10
  That's a really good point. Okay?
• 27:12
  Now, what you're making me think about is the say executive
• 27:16
  graduate program. So I do.
• 27:17
  And what I mean by that is I don't even know if that's the
• 27:19
  right term. But somebody who does something
• 27:21
  part time versus full-time. What do you think about, Those
• 27:25
  two options. I know that they're probably
• 27:26
  both great options based on your situation.
• 27:28
  What would be some situations where someone would be like?
• 27:30
  I'm going to go all in and just say quit my job and just go for
• 27:34
  it and get this done as quickly as possible versus the person
• 27:37
  who is going to do it at night and I guess again maybe from the
• 27:41
  lens of apparent way these options, I think you have to
• 27:45
  make that judgment based on your own family situation.
• 27:48
  So you know it can be quite expensive to do it all in one go
• 27:52
  like to quit your job and be shelling out all of this money.
• 27:55
  For this degree and a lot of students who do that even when
• 28:00
  they are financially able to do it, there are a lot of hidden
• 28:02
  costs that they don't necessarily realize they're
• 28:04
  coming and they find themselves under a lot of pressure to
• 28:06
  finish quickly so that they can go back to work and start
• 28:10
  earning again and not have these enormous bills coming in all the
• 28:12
  time. So I think that can cause a lot
• 28:15
  of pressure but then also it is like a lot of the time and focus
• 28:20
  pressures are reduced on the other hand of you're deciding to
• 28:23
  do it at night like it can be that A bit cheaper, you have
• 28:26
  that more Financial Security but it's putting an extra pressure
• 28:29
  on your family like you'll have less time to spend with your
• 28:32
  kids. You'll have less time to spend
• 28:34
  with your partner. You're going to be asking more
• 28:36
  of your partner if you have one and you're going to be tired as
• 28:40
  well. So, like I think you have to
• 28:43
  judge from what, you know, about yourself, which situation is
• 28:48
  going to work. Best for you because it's going
• 28:49
  to be trade-offs and benefits both ways.
• 28:52
  But only, you can know like which trade-offs Worth the
• 28:55
  benefits to you and your family. Mmm, that's a great point.
• 28:59
  I wonder if also speaking with people, you know who have gone
• 29:02
  either root, who might be in a similar situation to yourself
• 29:04
  and getting kind of weighing some of those pros and cons with
• 29:08
  other people's real life experience in that would
• 29:09
  probably be pretty helpful. Yeah, definitely.
• 29:12
  So I've had like, I'm just thinking back to the past kind
• 29:16
  of six months worth of the students that I've worked with.
• 29:19
  And I know I had one, lady, who did decide to go the full time
• 29:22
  route and a lot of her. Stress came from the fact that
• 29:26
  she was using savings. And, you know, some of those
• 29:30
  savings had been set aside for her kids and she like made that
• 29:33
  very deliberate decision. I can provide better for my kids
• 29:37
  in the future if I have this degree so I can borrow from them
• 29:41
  now, so that I can give back more afterwards.
• 29:43
  She then ran into a lot of roadblocks in her degree, where
• 29:46
  she had a very obstructive supervisor, who was delaying
• 29:48
  things. And she was in that degree a lot
• 29:50
  longer than she wanted to be in that sort of huge amount of
• 29:52
  pressure on her. So that was kind of one
• 29:54
  situation. Grayson.
• 29:56
  But then I have another lady as well.
• 29:57
  Who she decided to do her degree could just because it was
• 30:01
  something she was very passionate about but he was
• 30:03
  doing it kind of evenings free time and and really doing slowly
• 30:07
  and really taking her time with it.
• 30:09
  And she was up front with her institution about the fact that
• 30:11
  she was going to do that. And she found her kids, really
• 30:13
  inspiring and really supportive like she would talk through her
• 30:16
  ideas with them and, like, really involves I'm in the
• 30:18
  process of what she was doing. And so he had a much more
• 30:20
  positive experience that way, but she found it so hard.
• 30:25
  Hard to stay focused and motivated on a day-to-day basis
• 30:28
  because there were all these other distractions.
• 30:30
  You know, she was still doing her job.
• 30:32
  She was still doing a lot of stuff in their family, like it
• 30:34
  was really hard for her to find that just time to just sit and
• 30:37
  do the work which obviously, stretch things out longer for
• 30:41
  her. Hmm.
• 30:42
  Yeah. Family situation and
• 30:43
  Circumstance plays into it, but what I'm kind of hearing from
• 30:46
  that is also know thyself, like really know who you are.
• 30:50
  I have a few friends who have recently been diagnosed with
• 30:52
  ADHD and one of whom is One of my best friends in the world and
• 30:56
  she is pursuing a few different types of Education.
• 30:58
  Right now in the diagnosis is actually given her so much power
• 31:01
  and understanding how she can, you know, create the mechanisms
• 31:05
  and systems in her life to be able to accomplish these
• 31:09
  educational Pursuits in the best way possible.
• 31:12
  And so that's a great point when your guys I guess when you're
• 31:14
  evaluating these different options it's like how do I like
• 31:17
  to work? Like I personally am Sprinter.
• 31:19
  I mean, I actually did sprinting in high school now that I think
• 31:22
  about it which is funny I think I could do a marathon.
• 31:25
  I think I'd get bored but yeah, I just I love to get things done
• 31:30
  quickly. The Graduate certificate for me
• 31:31
  was eight months, it was intensive and and that was
• 31:35
  great. I needed to be immersed, but
• 31:36
  that's a good point. And there's some people who made
• 31:38
  me do want to do it slower, but you have to recognize that guy.
• 31:42
  Your focus is going to be stretched out for a longer, and
• 31:46
  you're going to have more things.
• 31:47
  You're cramming more things into your world.
• 31:49
  Yes, yes. And each of those things, takes
• 31:52
  its own toll on, like, your physical, and mental.
• 31:55
  Wellness. So like, know yourself know what
• 31:58
  you're capable of and what you're willing to do know, your
• 32:01
  family is well and like The rhythms of your family, like I
• 32:05
  had one student who didn't get any work done for about three
• 32:09
  months because she was doing again, like she was in evening
• 32:12
  weekends, studier. Each of her four kids got sick,
• 32:15
  one after the other, you know, the way they do, like when they
• 32:17
  just go back to school and then they just fall like one after
• 32:20
  the other with a sickness. And then by the time number for
• 32:23
  gets well, the first ones ill again.
• 32:25
  N and that just happened to her. And there was nothing she could
• 32:27
  do about it. Like it just it was what it was
• 32:30
  and it delayed her and I have another one.
• 32:32
  I'm remembering like comes to the, she does really late night
• 32:36
  sessions because she has a very intense day time job and we
• 32:38
  spend a lot of time in her sessions, kind of heard her
• 32:42
  nine-year-old. Please go and take his bath.
• 32:44
  Like, so we'll be like, okay, so what do you want to do in this
• 32:47
  chapter? Oh no, come on, go go.
• 32:48
  Take your bath. Yeah, I'm glad to see you, too,
• 32:51
  but you do need to go take your bath.
• 32:56
  Oh my goodness, and those are having this the sickness or the
• 33:00
  bath there? Just I I don't think they're
• 33:01
  things that you would think about, right?
• 33:04
  Like you kind of think about the black and the white you think
• 33:06
  about okay, how many hours a day do I want to keep working?
• 33:09
  What time do I typically wake up?
• 33:11
  What time can I go to bed? Like these are the very like
• 33:13
  black and white things we think, but we don't think about the
• 33:14
  nuances of life that inevitably pop up, especially as a parent.
• 33:19
  Exactly. But you do know them really like
• 33:22
  when you stop and sit down and you think like, you know, like
• 33:25
  Oh, hold on a minute. My toddler is always ill as soon
• 33:29
  as like allergy season starts or, you know, like hmmm.
• 33:33
  My husband always has to go away for work during, you know,
• 33:37
  September, or, you know, whatever it might be like, you
• 33:39
  know, those things in the back of your head and you arrange the
• 33:41
  rest of your life around, it just don't forget to do it when
• 33:43
  you're thinking about adding this huge extra thing to your
• 33:45
  life. Yes.
• 33:47
  Oh, wow, that's such a, this is, this has been so helpful.
• 33:51
  I'm learning so much. And every so if it's kind of
• 33:53
  like when you're you're in a job, When you're dancing around
• 33:56
  LinkedIn being like how I had a bad day, I'm going to look for a
• 33:59
  new job or you're like, hmm. What's next for me?
• 34:01
  I'm going to look at different courses online or you know, just
• 34:04
  some of that type of stuff. You've also just made me think
• 34:06
  about special interest. I don't know why I use the word
• 34:09
  special but it just interest courses.
• 34:11
  You know, I have actually worked with a few people who are, you
• 34:14
  know, they're in some sort of specialist in their own, right?
• 34:17
  And completely out of left field.
• 34:18
  They're like, but I have a really Keen Eye for design and
• 34:22
  interior design, and I've always wanted Wondered you know like
• 34:26
  what's there and I've you know pose the question back to them
• 34:29
  around like have you ever just explored this as a hobby and
• 34:32
  what might that look like just to see what do you think about
• 34:35
  that? Like How could somebody explore
• 34:37
  in a really less committed way a hobby or interest that they
• 34:42
  have? I think those are great.
• 34:44
  Those are such like, they feel like they have this structure in
• 34:48
  the seriousness of an actual educational degree without the
• 34:51
  commitment of the pressure. And the, oh my gosh, I've got to
• 34:53
  change my life. Now that I've done this.
• 34:55
  I did one of those actually a few years ago, I did interior
• 34:57
  design and it was so much fun. Like it was so much fun.
• 35:00
  I don't do anything with it now but it makes me really happy
• 35:03
  that I did it and explored it. I would say all of these like
• 35:07
  you to me and Chris are alike. Those are great starting places.
• 35:10
  They have really inexpensive courses on just about anything.
• 35:13
  And like, if you want to just test out, am I really interested
• 35:17
  in this? As I think, I am doing something
• 35:20
  like that. Is a good starting place, and if
• 35:21
  you like that, and you're still, not sure something a little bit.
• 35:25
  It more structures like a little bit more of a money commitment,
• 35:27
  a little bit more in-depth but still not yet, at the
• 35:30
  certificate or associate degree level can like.
• 35:34
  Once they start throwing assignments, that you and that
• 35:36
  little bit more time pressure, like, see if you can cope with
• 35:39
  it and if you still love it, even when you are, told you have
• 35:42
  to do homework assignment by next week.
• 35:45
  Like if you still love it at that point, it's a good sign
• 35:47
  that maybe that educational path is a good idea for you.
• 35:50
  Well, that would be fun, that's really cool.
• 35:53
  I mean I have so many ideas I'm To be on maternity leave soon
• 35:57
  and I feel like my mind always goes crazy and wants to like
• 35:59
  learn things. So maybe I'll explore.
• 36:01
  Have you come across master class or do you know, anybody
• 36:04
  who's done any of those Master Class courses have come across
• 36:07
  master class. I don't know anything.
• 36:08
  He's done the courses, me neither, but I think they
• 36:12
  contribute to one of the subscription TV, things that I
• 36:17
  have a curiosity stream. I think a lot of the masterclass
• 36:21
  videos are up on that. So I've watched a few of them.
• 36:23
  They're pretty good. Oh cool.
• 36:25
  All they look very well designed and edited and like high
• 36:27
  production value. Yeah.
• 36:29
  Yeah, I think that's my fun. Cool.
• 36:32
  Oh my goodness, all dr. John, thank you so much for just
• 36:34
  breaking all of that down. I feel very inspired and just
• 36:38
  more Empower of making decisions from an educational perspective.
• 36:41
  Not that I'd love to know how you support people who you
• 36:45
  support. If you could tell our audience,
• 36:46
  if anybody's listening who might be like, oh my goodness, this
• 36:49
  feels like dr. John could really, really help
• 36:51
  me out. I'd love for you to just kind of
• 36:53
  share a bit about what you're, uh, To and how you score people
• 36:56
  score. So I like I said, I'm a
• 36:58
  dissertation coach. I offer a few different packages
• 37:02
  for students, depending on what they need and kind of the level
• 37:05
  of support that they need. So for students who are like
• 37:09
  deep into their degrees and they know they need a lot of help and
• 37:11
  they're approaching the end. I offer an unlimited editing
• 37:15
  package which is coaching plus editing and it just gets them
• 37:18
  from wherever they are right through to the point where their
• 37:20
  dissertations published and then like at the much less extreme
• 37:24
  level. I I offer just one on one
• 37:26
  coaching so for sessions or 12 sessions and students, get
• 37:30
  one-on-one time with me, and they also get a little bit of
• 37:33
  editing and they get unlimited feedback on their work.
• 37:36
  And so it's just like having somebody there.
• 37:38
  That's a shoulder that they can lean on really, so they can come
• 37:41
  to me with problems, they can ask for advice, I can teach them
• 37:44
  things, I don't know how to do, I'll review their work and give
• 37:46
  them feedback on it, if their supervisors and getting back to
• 37:49
  them quickly enough, I'll help them work out how to deal with
• 37:52
  the frustration of his supervisor and getting back with
• 37:54
  them quickly. Wow.
• 37:55
  So pretty much anything that they need like they can come to
• 37:57
  me. Well they're on those packages
• 38:00
  or if their kid isn't going to have a bath.
• 38:02
  It sounds like right there with them.
• 38:03
  No. We work right through the last
• 38:05
  time. 100% fine. That's amazing.
• 38:11
  That sounds like such an amazing investment.
• 38:12
  I feel like if I were doing a dissertation and I would 1000%
• 38:16
  spend and invest in support from somebody like yourself to just
• 38:20
  keep you on track and somebody who's a third party other than
• 38:23
  your supervisor. Imagine that's a very intense
• 38:24
  relationship and you kind of need a third party to help you
• 38:28
  along. Yeah, it's a very vulnerable
• 38:30
  relationship as well because the supervisor has the power in that
• 38:33
  situation, so you're kind of a little bit at their Mercy, you
• 38:36
  don't like to offend them. Don't want to push for too much.
• 38:38
  Whereas, you know, when you've got a coach working with you,
• 38:41
  it's much more of a partnership. You know, I'm invested in my
• 38:45
  students doing well in their augustin's.
• 38:47
  I'm doing well, and so we're both working for the same goal.
• 38:50
  And, you know, it's just a lot easier for them to share things
• 38:53
  with me and to know that they'll get advice.
• 38:55
  That's honest rather than like biased in any way.
• 38:58
  Yes definitely. And we will put this in the show
• 39:01
  notes but where can everybody find you where do you typically
• 39:04
  hang out. Okay, so I'm not the biggest
• 39:06
  social media you In the world. But so first people can go to my
• 39:10
  website which is www.hyken.com perfect.com and if anybody wants
• 39:16
  to do, they can book a free session on that site.
• 39:18
  People can email me at Jen at read/write perfect.com or they
• 39:24
  can find me on Twitter as at perfect underscore, right?
• 39:29
  Nice love that. Love, that website, read.
• 39:32
  Right. Perfect, that's so easy.
• 39:34
  Wonderful. Well, one last question, That I
• 39:37
  forgot to ask you before asking you where everybody can find you
• 39:41
  dr. John Harrison, what are you
• 39:43
  still trying to figure out and you know, I had some answers to
• 39:47
  this prepared, by think you've probably guessed it by now, I
• 39:50
  just like everyone else in the world.
• 39:52
  I am still trying to work out work-life balance.
• 39:55
  So yeah, like I said, my kids are very high attention.
• 40:00
  I the very demanding and like we like to do a lot of things
• 40:04
  together as a family, we like to explore new places we like to
• 40:07
  eat Meals together, we all have various sports that we do.
• 40:11
  So, I spend a lot of my time juggling, my students, and my
• 40:14
  family. So that's, that's what I'm still
• 40:16
  trying to figure out is how to have a very Zen, full fulfilling
• 40:22
  Family, Life while still being an awesome coach.
• 40:27
  I have no doubt, you are an awesome coach, but that is
• 40:30
  something that I feel like resonates with a lot of us, but
• 40:33
  that's finding that balance. So thank you for sharing that
• 40:36
  and thank you so, so much for coming on the podcast.
• 40:38
  It's been such a pleasure having you here.
• 40:40
  Thank you. And I do have an offer for your
• 40:42
  listeners as well if they would like it.
• 40:44
  So if anybody is listening and they're thinking they would like
• 40:48
  to start doing a degree or just get some advice about doing a
• 40:51
  degree or they're doing one already, and they want some help
• 40:54
  if they email me. And they mention this, Podcast.
• 40:57
  They can have a free full hour-long session with me.
• 41:01
  That is so incredibly generous. Thank you so much, that's
• 41:04
  wonderful. Oh, my goodness.
• 41:05
  Okay, I'm going to put that in the show notes, but listen up
• 41:07
  everybody, a free session. If you say all figured out, I
• 41:10
  heard you on the podcast dr. John Harrison.
• 41:13
  I want to learn more about you and I want your advice.
• 41:15
  That's wonderful. Thank you so much.
• 41:17
  Thank you. Thank you for listening.
• 41:20
  You can access all resources mentioned in this episode via my
• 41:23
  website andreea bar.com, / podcast, And let's chat on
• 41:27
  Instagram. I'm at andreea bar coaching and
• 41:29
  I reply to every DM, I get if you loved this episode, don't
• 41:33
  forget to quickly hit that button on your podcast app to
• 41:36
  give me a five star rating, and drop in a review.
• 41:38
  It would truly mean the world and if you're like me and love
• 41:42
  to share things that you love, send this episode to a friend
• 41:45
  who you think would appreciate this topic.
• 41:48
  Thanks again for listening, and I'll chat with you next week.