Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Lucas Hernandez mystery: Shocking details emerge, 'stepmom' Emily Glass found dead in PJs in sunroom with AR-15 gunshot wound to head

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Lucas Hernandez mystery: Shocking details emerge, 'stepmom' Emily Glass found dead in PJs in sunroom with AR-15 gunshot wound to head · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

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  Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace on Sirius XM Triumph Channel
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  Speaker 1: one two. A little boy just celebrating his fifth birthday
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  Speaker 1: goes missing. An all out search ensues to no avail,
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  Speaker 1: and then the step mother unwittingly gets into the car
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  Speaker 1: of a private eye hired by the bio dead Jonathan Hernandez,
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  Speaker 1: and in the next hours, as they drive through back
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  Speaker 1: back country roads, she Emily Glass leads the p I
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  Speaker 1: David Marshburn to the five year old taught's body. She
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  Speaker 1: walks free. Today, I Nancy Grace, this is Crime Stories.
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  Speaker 1: Thank you for being with us. Joining me now a
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  Speaker 1: very special guest along with Dr Chloe Carmichael, Ashley Wilcott,
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  Speaker 1: Pat Brown, Vincent Hill and Lee Egan, Lucas's father, Jonathan Hernandez. Jonathan,
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  Speaker 1: it astounds me that you can even move forward after
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  Speaker 1: those hours and hours. Emily Glass, your then love interest,
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  Speaker 1: was in the car with the p I and leads
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  Speaker 1: him to your son, Lucas's body. So much has happened.
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  Speaker 1: Take a listen as Emily rides along Emily Glass with
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  Speaker 1: p I David Marshburn. It's okay. The only thing you
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  Speaker 1: can do if my hair is moved forward and right.
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  Speaker 1: Where's the I didn't little get so wrong? I didn't walk,
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  Speaker 1: Jonathan Hernandez. When Emily was in the car with the
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  Speaker 1: p I driving for hours and hours telling her story,
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  Speaker 1: where were you? I was on my way back to
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  Speaker 1: New Mexico for work. Right now, authorities are investigating the
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  Speaker 1: death the shooting death of a Kansas woman who leads
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  Speaker 1: Marshburn to the remains of five year old Lucas three
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  Speaker 1: months after he's reported missing. She ends up dead in
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  Speaker 1: the home, Jonathan Hernandez. Many people are speculating Emily Glass
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  Speaker 1: was overcome with guilt, but others suggest it wasn't a
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  Speaker 1: suicide at all. What do you think happened? Jonathan, and
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  Speaker 1: tell us about the evening you find her dead. You know,
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  Speaker 1: I didn't notice any unusual behavior from her that day.
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  Speaker 1: She was, you know, just pretty normal, I guess over
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  Speaker 1: text messaging. And then you know, later on that evening,
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  Speaker 1: I had stayed out a little bit late to be
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  Speaker 1: able to go to my friend's house, so I figured
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  Speaker 1: I would just go stay at my house that night.
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  Speaker 1: And I tried to text her and she didn't respond,
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  Speaker 1: so I thought maybe she was asleep. And wait, wait, wait,
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  Speaker 1: let me understand something. You were going back to your
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  Speaker 1: home where we believe Lucas was killed. Where was Emily.
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  Speaker 1: I thought she was at her father's or she was
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  Speaker 1: at the house. I wasn't really sure, um, but it
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  Speaker 1: turns out that she was at the house. It's the
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  Speaker 1: house in your name or her name, or rented by
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  Speaker 1: you or her. I believe it's just rented by me
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  Speaker 1: and my name. Why was she still there? She had
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  Speaker 1: nowhere else to go after she led Marshburn to Lucas.
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  Speaker 1: Her family was, you know, pretty upset with her. I
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  Speaker 1: felt betrayed a little bit by by her. So even
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  Speaker 1: though you believed she had a hand in Lucas's death,
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  Speaker 1: you allowed her to still stay in the home. Yes, ma'am.
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  Speaker 1: Why you know, it's until the autopsy was going to
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  Speaker 1: come back and whatever it said. I mean, it's still
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  Speaker 1: up in the air as far as if she did
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  Speaker 1: or if she didn't do anything other than hide his body.
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  Speaker 1: And so I wasn't I wasn't going to just kick
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  Speaker 1: her out on the street. I mean, I wasn't staying there.
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  Speaker 1: So she was, you know, welcome to stay there as
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  Speaker 1: long as she needed. Okay, you're a better person than me, Jonathan,
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  Speaker 1: because um let me understand. So even if Lucas died accidentally,
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  Speaker 1: she kept his death from you for three months as
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  Speaker 1: you anguished about what happened to Lucas. Was he alive,
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  Speaker 1: has he been kidnapped? Is he dead? Does he need you?
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  Speaker 1: Is he suffering? Is he being molested over and over
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  Speaker 1: and over by a pedophile? So your mind is going
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  Speaker 1: to all these places for three months, and she kept
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  Speaker 1: that from you, all the while knowing he was dead
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  Speaker 1: under a bridge. At any time, does she let on
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  Speaker 1: to you that he had passed away? Not not until
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  Speaker 1: she had, I guess told Marsham that he had passed
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  Speaker 1: away in his sleep and she had boke up and
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  Speaker 1: found him and panicked Jonathan, do you believe that. I don't.
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  Speaker 1: I mean, little little kids just don't die unless you
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  Speaker 1: know there was something seriously wrong with him. Okay, So
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  Speaker 1: let me get back into your thinking about having her
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  Speaker 1: stay at the home. You didn't want to throw her
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  Speaker 1: out on the straight because she didn't have anywhere to go. Well,
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  Speaker 1: I mean, she still had her stuff there, she hadn't
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  Speaker 1: moved out, and like I said, I wasn't staying there.
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  Speaker 1: So it's kind of both of our places when we
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  Speaker 1: both lived there, you know, like I wasn't too concerned
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  Speaker 1: about whether she was there or not. What were you
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  Speaker 1: guys texting about that night? Um, it was just normal.
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  Speaker 1: She asked how I was doing that day, and I
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  Speaker 1: just told her it is, you know, just normal everyday
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  Speaker 1: drama that has been going on NonStop. She said, hopefully
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  Speaker 1: it'll stop or die down or whatever. I said, hopefully,
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  Speaker 1: And that's all we about. The last time we did
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  Speaker 1: say anything was about seven thirty that evening over texting.
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  Speaker 1: I'm having a hard time and maybe it's just me
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  Speaker 1: imagining having a quote normal conversation with somebody that dumped
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  Speaker 1: my kid's body under a bridge. I mean, how did
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  Speaker 1: you do that? It was more of you know, I
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  Speaker 1: have been trying to talk to her since she got
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  Speaker 1: out of jail the last time, trying to get information
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  Speaker 1: from her about Lucas. So sometimes I was, you know,
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  Speaker 1: questioning her pretty hard, and then sometimes I would back
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  Speaker 1: off a little bit and just kind of make her
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  Speaker 1: feel comfortable enough to where maybe she would finally tell
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  Speaker 1: me something. Take a listen to Emily Glass as we
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  Speaker 1: hear Lucas's dad, Jonathan her Nandez explain his thinking about
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  Speaker 1: keeping up a farce of normality with Emily Glass to
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  Speaker 1: try and get information out of her. This is Emily
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  Speaker 1: Glass speaking with k w H Devin Fastbender, and she
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  Speaker 1: describes why little Lucas was always covered with bruises. There's
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  Speaker 1: obviously a lot of rumors going on, a lot of
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  Speaker 1: things that people are saying about your stepson Lucas. Just
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  Speaker 1: curious if there's anything that you want to say about
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  Speaker 1: that situation. Yes, Um, in the past, you know very
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  Speaker 1: by time Pete, you know, being a boy, Um and
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  Speaker 1: playing with older brothers and his cousins, Um and Ellie.
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  Speaker 1: He get prove it y. I time from Paul Um
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  Speaker 1: follows either cookie dinner or at the park. Um, I'm sorry,
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  Speaker 1: it's really hard on you. No, you're fine, take your time.
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  Speaker 1: I may not have given birth to him that he
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  Speaker 1: might bab before today. I take care of them every day.
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  Speaker 1: Ashley Willcott, what do you think I just have to
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  Speaker 1: on behalf of the child. That's the child advocate for
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  Speaker 1: the State of Georgia for a period of time under
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  Speaker 1: Governor Deal. Let's play Devil's Advocate. One of the questions
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  Speaker 1: that the public wants to know and wants to look
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  Speaker 1: at is should Jonathan have known that perhaps Emily was
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  Speaker 1: not taking good care of Lucas, Not that that is
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  Speaker 1: a reason for Lucas to have been killed. Don't misunderstand me,
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  Speaker 1: but we have talked previously with Jonathan on this show
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  Speaker 1: about the fact that there've been bruises on the child before,
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  Speaker 1: and that relatives of express concerns. So one of the
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  Speaker 1: things from a preventative standpoint that people want to know
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  Speaker 1: is should he, as the father, have known, Not that
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  Speaker 1: she would kill the child. Nobody expects that from someone
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  Speaker 1: they love, but that there was something amiss or nefarious
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  Speaker 1: a foot in terms of her treatment of the child.
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  Speaker 1: Jonathan Hernandez, what about it? I myself have never witnessed
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  Speaker 1: her abuse him, hit him, be ugly towards him, And
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  Speaker 1: it kind of goes back to you know, you're trusting
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  Speaker 1: this other person to take care of your most prized possession,
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  Speaker 1: and you're romantically involved with him, and you don't think
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  Speaker 1: that they would ever do that, especially if you've never
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  Speaker 1: witnessed it. But in hindsight, I mean, I can see
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  Speaker 1: the bruises and stuff. Whenever I was not home could
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  Speaker 1: have been her abusing him. Did you ever learn anything
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  Speaker 1: from her about what really happened to Lucas? Unfortunately I didn't.
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  Speaker 1: Um She stuck with the same story that she found
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  Speaker 1: him and he was dead asleep, you know, in his
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  Speaker 1: dead and nothing really changed. And did she say he
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  Speaker 1: had thrown up, or he was blue, or he was
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  Speaker 1: smothered with a cord from the blinds. Nothing said that
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  Speaker 1: he was just lying there as if he were sleeping,
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  Speaker 1: and he's dead. Guess man, That's that's all she said.
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  Speaker 1: She would say anything else. Okay, So that evening you
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  Speaker 1: end up deciding to go over to her home, to
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  Speaker 1: your home or you're letting her stay. When you went in,
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  Speaker 1: what if anything did you discover, Well, the lights were
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  Speaker 1: on and the TV was on and it looked like,
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  Speaker 1: you know, somebody was there. And I go to the
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  Speaker 1: bedroom and she's not there. So I go out to
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  Speaker 1: the garage and check to see if the car was there.
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  Speaker 1: I thought maybe she wasn't staying there, maybe had left
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  Speaker 1: for something, And her car was there in the garage.
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  Speaker 1: So I went back inside and did a more thorough
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  Speaker 1: room by room search, and when I found her in
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  Speaker 1: the back room. When you found her, was she dressed?
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  Speaker 1: Was she lying in bed? What was the condition of
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  Speaker 1: her body? She was dressed, It looked like she had pajamason.
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  Speaker 1: At first, did you believe she was just asleep? No?
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  Speaker 1: I did not. I thought it was a dream. I
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  Speaker 1: wasn't sure what was happening at first, you know, Jonathan,
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  Speaker 1: as you know, and this is not something that I believe,
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  Speaker 1: and I have made that very clear. Her friends say
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  Speaker 1: Emily was killed, this was not a suicide, that she
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  Speaker 1: would never have committed suicide, which makes you a real
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  Speaker 1: target of suspicion if anybody buys into that, which, let
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  Speaker 1: me make clear, I do not. What do you have
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  Speaker 1: to say to her friends and acquaintances that seemingly are
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  Speaker 1: pointing the finger at you. Well, everybody wants somebody to blame.
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  Speaker 1: But you know, from what I saw, and the same
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  Speaker 1: thing from I'm sure what the detectives saw when they
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  Speaker 1: came over to the house, that it's, you know, a
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  Speaker 1: most likely suicide until they officially rule a suicide. But
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  Speaker 1: that's what it looked like to me. And why do
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  Speaker 1: you say that, Why do you are you convinced Jonathan
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  Speaker 1: Emily killed herself just just the way everything looked, um,
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  Speaker 1: it looked like she had thought about it. She got
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  Speaker 1: my gun case out of my closet it and took
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  Speaker 1: it into that back room with her and then opened
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  Speaker 1: the gun case there and the gun was laying next
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  Speaker 1: to her, and she had it looked like she had
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  Speaker 1: smoked three or four cigarettes that were on the on
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  Speaker 1: the floor by her feet, So you know, maybe she
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  Speaker 1: had thought about it for a little while anyways before
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  Speaker 1: she did it. That's a really good observation seeing those
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  Speaker 1: cigarettes there on the floor. Let me ask you, when
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  Speaker 1: she shot herself, did she shoot herself in the chest
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  Speaker 1: or the head? No, she shot herself in the head.
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  Speaker 1: I was thinking this through because based on the location
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  Speaker 1: of the shot and the trajector of the bullet, whether
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  Speaker 1: or not there are powder burns or gunshot residue on
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  Speaker 1: her body. They'll be able to tell for sure whether
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  Speaker 1: this was suicide or homicide. Most likely When you saw Emily,
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  Speaker 1: what flashed through your mind? Jonathan, I honestly didn't know
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  Speaker 1: who it was. And I actually walked out of the
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  Speaker 1: room briefly, just to breathe a minute and try to
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  Speaker 1: I asked myself if I was really seeing what I saw,
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  Speaker 1: and I, you know, glanced back in the room and
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  Speaker 1: she was still there. So as soon as I happened,
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  Speaker 1: I ran outside and call nine with me. Is Jonathan Hernandez,
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  Speaker 1: Lucas's father, recounting the horrible night he comes back to
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  Speaker 1: his own home to find the stepmother. Dad. Take a
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  Speaker 1: listen to Emily Glass as she responds to Davin Fastbender
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  Speaker 1: talking about does she, Emily have any idea where Lucas? Maybe?
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  Speaker 1: Do you have any idea where Lucas might be? At
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  Speaker 1: this point? You guys, I went they did. Um what
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  Speaker 1: if anyone does know? Cale, say something? Because me and
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  Speaker 1: Dad are wearing sick. You know what, I I keep thinking,
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  Speaker 1: making me knew what could have happened, you know, yeah?
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  Speaker 1: And I keep thinking back to these two people. Um
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  Speaker 1: that we're outside of my house and beauty prior. Um
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  Speaker 1: the black man and white woman. Do you know them? No?
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  Speaker 1: They were staying out by up, talking book and say
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  Speaker 1: are it's actually pretty early morning. So I went out
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  Speaker 1: there to be like, hey, everything, okay, do you need
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  Speaker 1: to come inside? You know, are you stranded? And they
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  Speaker 1: were just like no and looked at me like I
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  Speaker 1: offended them with something. Um, And I said, okay, I'm sorry.
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  Speaker 1: You know, I mean it's called outside, but I didn't
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  Speaker 1: know if who you know needed to come into you know,
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  Speaker 1: it was just being nice. Um. And they stuck around
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  Speaker 1: for maybe ten fifty more minutes. That's actually there's tap
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  Speaker 1: a picture and I'm walking away because I wanted to
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  Speaker 1: send it to their dad and to be like, okay,
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: you know what's going on because I'm at home alone.
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  Speaker 1: Did you end up sending that picture to Jonathan? Yes?
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: I did. I did. Little may mean boy here needed brothers.
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• 20:08
  Speaker 1: where did she get the gun? We pretty much nailed
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: that down that there was no gun in the half.
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: I told Jonathan and I told Jamie stay away. Let's
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: say someone did this to Emiley, or Emily does it
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: to herself, You're gonna be the first suspects so stay away,
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: and approximately one am on Friday, Glass's boyfriend, thirty four
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: year old Jonathan Hernandez to report arriving home and finding
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: Glass dead. Officers discovered a rifle near her feet and
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: three suicide notes in the residence with me is Jonathan Hernandez.
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: This is Lucas's father. Five year old Lucas goes missing
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: for three long months, while Mly Glass, the stepmother, keeps
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: up the facade that he was kidnapped, stolen, or wandered
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: away from the home as she took a nap, all
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: the while knowing full well five year old Lucas was
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: dead and that she herself had disposed of his body
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: under a rural and obscure bridge. You just heard private
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: investigator David Marshburne wondering where the rifle came from that
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: Emily used when she shot herself in Jonathan her Nandez
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: is the dad's home, and which top police officer Charlie
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: Davidson describing the rifle beside Emily's feet three suicide notes
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: found in the home back to Jonathan her Nandez, Lucas's dad.
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: Many people, as you know, have speculated how could anyone
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: commit suicide? With a long gun a rifle. What are
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: police telling you, Jonathan, about how she could pull off
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: such a fate. Um, It's it's not a dear rifle
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: like everybody thinks. It's not actually that long. It's a
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: short assault rifles. It's an a R fifteen and the
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: stocks are collapsible so you can adjust it for the
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: length of your arm versus a regular gun where you cannot,
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: and it only has a sixteen inch barrel. Vincent Hill,
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: private investigator joining us for our listeners. Why is it
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: even considered a long gun? A lot of people call
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: it a long rifle simply because it's longer than your
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: typical handgun, which you typically see in a suicide. That's
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: what most people assume you do on a suicide when
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: you shoot yourself and you use a handgun. But that's
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: not always the king. But to Jonathan Hernandez Lucas's dad,
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: that makes a lot of difference, Jonathan, because, UM, a
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: barrel just sixteen inches is a lot different from a
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: long gun, which would make it very difficult to shoot yourself.
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: What do you make of the three suicide notes that
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: police say they found in the home. Where were they?
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: I honestly don't know. They didn't They didn't tell me
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: where they were, and as far as two of them,
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: they haven't told me what's in them. Except for the
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: third one they did tell me was rolled up and
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: stuck inside of her engagement ring and it said to um,
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: give our daughter the ring when she gets older. You know,
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: I find that extremely extremely telling with me as Pat Brown,
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: high profile criminal profiler. Pat, what do you make of
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: Emily Glass rolling up one of her three suic side
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: notes and putting it in the engagement rang that Jonathan
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: Hernandez gave her. Yeah, you know, Jonathan says, it seemed
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: like she did think about this for a while, she
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: knew probably what was going to happen down the road,
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: and I do think from what I've heard, at the end,
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: she seemed like she did have guilt. So that's why
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: suicide is very probable. Uh, it was planned, But I
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: think it is really good and I think Jonathan he
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: should know this be very very insistent with the police
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: that they do a thorough, thorough investigation as to the
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: manner of death, because what happens with suicides a lot
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: of times it seems so quote obvious even to law
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: enforcement that they rule it that way without doing a
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: really really deep investigation. And what happens is questions pop
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: up later and like people start saying, well, she couldn't
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: have done that, or she wouldn't have done that, or
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: whatever they decide is a reason it's not a suicide.
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: And they the people will dog law enforcements for decades
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: and dog people they believe might have committed a homicide
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: instead of you know, being a suicide, and they will
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: dog them forever. I've had families call me, uh and
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: tell me that their child has committed who's who has
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: been labeled a suicide and they say, oh, no, it
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: wasn't suicide. Somebody killed my son, somebody killed my daughter,
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: and hey, it's usually because the police didn't do a
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: thorough investigation. And later on I tried to explain to
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: the family exactly what's happened. It really was a suicide,
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: and they will not buy it, and they will go
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: from person to person, from from an investigator to a
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: profiler to prove that the person was actually murdered, and
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: they this move on forever. So Jonathan, make sure that
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: the police do, indeed, for your own sake, do a
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: very thorough investigation to prove what the manner of death is.
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: To Dr Chloe Carmichael, renowned New York psychologist and creator
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: of Transformation Products dot com dot to Chloe, what is
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: a significance of her rolling up a suicide note and
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: putting it sticking it in her engagement ring for Jonathan
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: to find? Well, Nancy, I agree, that's a very poignant,
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: highly personalized thing for her to do. UM. And you
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: know the comments earlier about how this suggests that she
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: was just literally overwhelmed with guilt, you know, to the
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: point of suicide. UM, and that she wrote three notes,
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: you know, trying so hard to find the right words,
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: how to express you know, it's to say the impossible,
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: and to roll the note up eventually and to put
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: it inside of her engagement ring. I think UM is
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: almost like suggesting, you know, if I can speculate, obviously
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: I don't know, but it's almost like suggesting that she
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: wasn't worthy, Like she was giving this back UM, saying
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: that she felt that she had failed, and that wrapped
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: within let early what was supposed to have been the
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: deepest bond with family, that she had also committed the
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: deepest sin and it was a way of enveloping. You
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: know this um this suicide note within the symbol of
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: what she was supposed to have been. I don't know.
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: I feel like it's a stab to the heart of
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: Jonathan Hernandez. Two. First of all, many people believe, including myself,
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: kill Lucas and then hide his body and let Jonathan
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: suffer for over three months while people looked for his
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: little boy. And then to take the note and put
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: it in the engagement ring he gave her. Uh, I
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: feel like that's pointed directly at him with me is yes,
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: I kind of think that it's almost fills to me.
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: I I kind of go the opposite direction that she's
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: returning his ring. I don't necessarily think it's a mean thing.
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: It's almost like a confession there. It's a confession that
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: you know, I wasn't I'm not I can't be your wife.
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: I wasn't worthy of it. Here's your ring back, here's
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: my apology note in the ring. It's a very female
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: thing to do in my opinion, which is also supportive
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: of suicide. I agree to do that as a almost
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: like a little return. It's a deep acknowledgement, is what
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: it is. That's it's a physical and and reality based
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: acknowledgement through the ring of how her role as as
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: stepmother was actually making this entire thing um all the worse,
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: all the worse, and you know, and it may even
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: be why she committed suicide. You know, just grasping all
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: of these facts together was overwhelming to Ashley Wilcot, general
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: judge lawyer, founder of child Crime watch dot com. Ashley
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: way In, here's the thing, Nancy, Unfortunately for Jonathan, the
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: public wants to know what happened to Lucas. They want
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: to know how he died. And so what's gonna happen
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: is they are going to harass bother and not believe
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: Jonathan until they get answers. And I think that the
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: general public is going to have the exact same response
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: you had. Nancy. Wow, Jonathan, you are a better person
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: than I because knowing that she was involved, even if
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: at a minimum, and this was a minimum, she hid
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: the body that's still involvement. This was your son. How
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: could you possibly even let her stay in the house, Jonathan.
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: I'm not saying that's right or wrong. I'm just saying
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: I think that's the public response which causes the harassment
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: and bothering Is that true, Jonathan? Are a people harassing
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: you and bothering you? I mean two of her friends
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: have practically pointed their finger at you for Emily's death. Yeah, they,
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: I mean they do harass me. Is pretty much why
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: I haven't stayed at the house been wanting to stay
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: at that. Is it true? People are actually driving by
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: the house and spying on you and posting your movements? Absolutely? Absolutely,
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: they'll post it online saying I'm home or I was
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: in the backyard or something that she might be going
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: on because I was like cleaning sticks up in the backyard.
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: And yeah, so they always trying to get pictures and
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: drive by so that they can they can be the
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: most important person on social media that day because they
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: saw me at the house or something. And I pretty
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: much stay off social media as as much as I
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: can because I don't want to see nasty and hateful comments.
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: I would totally stay off social media. I wouldn't even
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: look at it. Jonathan has nothing to do with you.
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: You know what? That reminds me of Ashley Wilcott. It
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: reminds me of buzzards circling around a dead body trying
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: to just take whatever they can who would want to
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: presume their sells. The most important person in Jonathan Hernande
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: has his words out of this tragedy. I think it's
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: human nature. I think that regrettably. Again, when there's a child,
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: especially a child who is dead, and the circumstances like this,
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: you know, it's almost like it's a made for TV
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: movie because you have a woman saying, I don't know
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: what happened. He disappeared, and then you fast forward months later, Um,
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: you know, we don't know where the body is. The
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: story doesn't really add up, and then you have a
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: private investigator come in that I understand Jonathan assisted at
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: getting him involved in this case, and he gets the
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: mother to reveal where the child is buried in a bridge.
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: These are all facts that are emotional that get people
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: curious and interested, and it's human nature. Are you kidding?
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: It is human nature to kick when a person's down
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: and overstep every boundary and a lot of our society
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: to see what happened, and they think they have a right.
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: Thanks to reality TV, people think they have a right
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: to whatever the heck they want without regards to privacy
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: or individuals. Um, we actually did and experiment ourselves with
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: a sixteen inch measured device, and for a woman, a
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: petite woman, taking into account the length of her arms,
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: still very difficult to commit suicide even with just a
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: sixteen inch barrel. So that's going to be an issue, Jonathan.
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: Have they questioned you as if they suspect you were involved,
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: not to the extent of, you know, the way the
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: scene looked, in the you know, manner in which the
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: gun was there, And I mean, obviously they've questioned me
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: as if I had anything to do with it, or
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: if I was over there earlier that night, or if
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: we were arguing or anything like that. Take a listen
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: as private investigator David Marshburne. Remember now he's got Emily
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: Glass in the car and they're driving around. She leaves
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: him two baby Lucas's body under a bridge. Here Marshburne
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: is questioning her about how she found Lucas dead. According
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: to her, now, I don't know what what Lucas like
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: when he when he passed away. Was on his back?
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: Did he throw up? He choked on his own vomit? Did? Um?
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: Was he just did in his bed? Did on a couch? Uh?
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: He was on the bed there on the couch on
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: his side or on his back and his back? So
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: did you think he vomited and vomit You didn't, m
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: So he just died of a concussion. And it's okay, Okay,
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: you freaked out. I'm telling you you're gonna be fine.
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: I mean, I see the way you're scared of Jonathan Son,
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: you and I both when we talked about what we
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: did yesterday, I noticed that you were a little bit afraid.
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: But what he would do to you? And you know what,
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: I don't think nothing. I don't think he'd do anything.
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: Have you talked to him about this? Okay? And how
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: do you want to break it to them? Do you
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: want me to or do you want us to do
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: it together? When we leave from the police department, once
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: all the bookings done and all we leave, do you
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: want us to do it together or do you want
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: how would you like to do that? Yeah? Joining me
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: right now having been on the scene and on the
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: case in the very beginning is crime online dot Com
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: investigative reporter Lee Egan. Lee. What I want to know
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: is the same thing everybody else wants to know. What
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: is the cause and manner of death? What's happening with
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: the autopsy on baby Lucas. According to Kate Swaven with
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: the Forensic Science Center units in What's nothing yet. I
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: spoke to her yesterday. She said it could be a
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: couple more weeks. You know, Lee, I find that very unusual.
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: What is the hold up regarding the autopsy on five
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: year old Lucas. They get the autopsy first, but what
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: they're doing is they're putting the toxicology results in with
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: the autopsy to make a complete package, and then once
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: the toxicology results come back here then they, at least
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: according to the d A, they do. They do plan
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: to tell the public what the results are. To Lucas's dad,
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: joining us our special guests, who has been fighting off
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: vultures and harpies seemingly feasting on this story at his expense. Jonathan,
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: First of all, I'm so sorry about everything you've been through,
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: and I feel like the weight of the world is
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: on your shoulders. And now not only have you lost
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: your son, the love of your life, you have Emily Glass,
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: who many believe killed him and discarded his body in
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: the middle of nowhere, ends up dead. And now you,
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: according to many people not me, are under suspicion now
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: one thing leading to that suspicion is that you are
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: in and out of the home and allowing her, who
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: many believe killed your son, to stay in home and
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: having a text relationship with our conversations with her, and
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: acting like nothing happened. Life is normal when your son
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: is at the medical examiner's office. Okay, that's a problem
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: for a lot of people. Now all the suspicion is
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: on you, and that's got to be a huge burden
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: to bear. When you wake up in the morning. What
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: goes through your mind, It's it's very difficult. I mean
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: it's you know, I've I've lost Lucas, and then shortly
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: after he was found, there was another tragedy that I witnessed,
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: and it's it's very difficult. I mean, I have nightmares
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: some nights, and it's hard to sleep. I'm afraid to
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: go anywhere just because I don't want to be seen
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: or photographed or you know, talked about or looked that funny,
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: And it's it's a really heavy heavy weight to carry.
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: You said that you were having nightmares. What do you
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: dream about? A lot of times, it's that I'm trying
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: to find Lucas, and I either sometimes I find him,
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: and then sometimes I don't. And sometimes it's like I
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: saw him around the corner and so I run into
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: the corner and look around and there's nobody there. You know.
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: It's it's really tour many, you know what, Jonathan, I
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: want to tell you something I don't. I don't even
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: know if I've ever mentioned this before. For years, literally years,
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: I would have a similar dream about my fiancee Keith,
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: that was murdered just before our wedding, and it would
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: be that somehow I would find out he was alive,
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: that he had not been murdered, and I would actually
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: have an address like sixty thirty four, Okay, that's the address,
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: and I would be out and it would be kind
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: of foggy, and it would always be, you know, at
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: the end of the day when it's just getting nighttime
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: or nighttime, and I would be going from house to
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: house to house on foot and it would say six
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: thirty one, thirty two, sixty thirty three, sixty four thirty five,
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: and I would miss the address, and I go back
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: and go over it and over it, and then i'd
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: see a little alley and I think, oh, maybe it's
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: down this alley and I'd go down an alley and
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: that would be wrong, and then I turned out and
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: I would just look and look and look, and I
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: would never find him. I mean, there were so many
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: variations on that. I mean, Dr Chloe, is that normal? Well, yes,
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: Actually it is normal to have the unconscious want to
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: try to work out while you're dreaming through dreams what's
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: not possible to process in the conscious mind. So there
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: are certain things that are too difficult to face in
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: the conscious mind, and the mind actually chooses as a
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: as a mechanism of self preservation to face these truths slowly,
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: and the first phase of facing them is through dreams.
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: And so that's why I can actually really understand Jonathan,
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: and you know Jonathan, of course, I mean, we're all
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: um terribly, terribly sorry for this tragedy. It's it's unfathomable,
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: and and that's why I actually think it's understandable that
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: it would be almost impossible to face Emily as as
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: the potential murderer at first, and so having just lost
• 40:59
  Speaker 1: your son and um to to suddenly also grasp that
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: the woman that you entrusted him to might have been
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: the culprit. I can see where that would be something
• 41:10
  Speaker 1: that the mind would need to begin to face slowly
• 41:14
  Speaker 1: and in phases. Well, I think part of it is
• 41:18
  Speaker 1: um and of course I'm just an armchair quarterback here,
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: Ashley that it's so overwhelming that he's lost Lucas number one,
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: but number two. He loved Emily. He was engaged to her,
• 41:32
  Speaker 1: they were living together. She was, by all intents and purposes,
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: the stepmother to his children. He goes away to make
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: a living on a job where he has to travel
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: trusting her, and she, many people believe, killed him and
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: hid his body and then drag Jonathan through months of
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: torture trying to find his son with no idea what
• 41:57
  Speaker 1: happened to him. It's like a double whim me because
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: the person that he trusted is the one responsible for
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: Lucas's death. And I don't I can't speak for Jonathan,
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: but I would be overwhelmed by guilt because I feel
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: like it was my fault when it is not. In
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: any way. It's not his fault. It's Emily's fault, and
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: there's no doubt in my mind about that. But it's
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: just gotta be horrible to to wait up with that
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: burden every day. I agree with you, Nancy, And the
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: reality is people want someone to blame. And so now
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: that Emily is no longer alive, I think that people
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: in the public, unfairly unjustly, are going to want to
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: crucify Jonathan for his feelings for Emily, his love, for
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: feeling for Emily, the guilt he feels, the loss, the
• 42:55
  Speaker 1: grief that he feels for losing his son beyond his control.
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: People are going to attack that because they want someone
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: to be responsible. So on top of the guilt and
• 43:05
  Speaker 1: the grief that I can't even imagine Nancy having my
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: own children. I can't even imagine going through the grief
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: of losing a child, especially in this manner, and you
• 43:14
  Speaker 1: can't prevent it, and you didn't know what happened, and
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: here you are dealing with that grief on top of that.
• 43:19
  Speaker 1: Now he's going to be crucified, so to speak, not literally,
• 43:23
  Speaker 1: but figuratively by the public who want and are demanding
• 43:26
  Speaker 1: answers from someone who doesn't have them. We may not
• 43:30
  Speaker 1: understand Jonathan still caring about Emily, letting her stay in
• 43:35
  Speaker 1: the home. Hasn't anybody ever believed what they want to believe?
• 43:41
  Speaker 1: Hasn't anybody ever loved someone and looked over their faults.
• 43:46
  Speaker 1: I mean, I think the circumstances were such that he
• 43:50
  Speaker 1: didn't know what happened, and he did not want to
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: believe Emily had a hand in Lucas's death. He just
• 43:57
  Speaker 1: I don't think he could take it. John Nathan, tell
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: me about your daughter. You are fighting, You're trying to
• 44:05
  Speaker 1: find a new job in the area to try to
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: get your daughter back. What's happening, Yes, Nancy, I I
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: need to be around for her more than just in
• 44:20
  Speaker 1: town once a month for so many days. I need
• 44:24
  Speaker 1: to be able to be around for visits and any
• 44:29
  Speaker 1: medical problems that she may come up with at some point.
• 44:33
  Speaker 1: But I need to make her my priority, and especially
• 44:39
  Speaker 1: now that I'm her only surviving parents. You know, Jonathan,
• 44:44
  Speaker 1: whether I agree with you letting Emily stay there or not,
• 44:49
  Speaker 1: everybody's got to walk a mile on his shoes before
• 44:52
  Speaker 1: we throw a stone at him. We don't know what
• 44:55
  Speaker 1: he's going through. I can't even imagine being away from
• 45:01
  Speaker 1: home and I have to travel to and I hate it.
• 45:03
  Speaker 1: I hate every second of being away from home. I actually,
• 45:07
  Speaker 1: as you know Ashley and Lee and Jack and Allan,
• 45:11
  Speaker 1: I actually back Timon and count the hours I'm gonna
• 45:14
  Speaker 1: be away from the twins. I can't even imagine being away.
• 45:19
  Speaker 1: And they go missing while I'm gone and I find
• 45:22
  Speaker 1: out they're dead. That is what he has lived through.
• 45:27
  Speaker 1: So whether you agree with him or not about the
• 45:29
  Speaker 1: way he feels or felt towards Emily, that's really none
• 45:34
  Speaker 1: of our business. That's for him to work out as
• 45:37
  Speaker 1: he deals with Lucas's death. I want to help you,
• 45:42
  Speaker 1: Jonathan Lee. Tell me about the go fund me that
• 45:48
  Speaker 1: someone has created for Jonathan to help him as he
• 45:53
  Speaker 1: searches for a new job. Go fund me was started
• 45:57
  Speaker 1: by his mother because, as he said earlier, he went
• 46:00
  Speaker 1: back to the house. That's where he is right now.
• 46:03
  Speaker 1: He needs money to move. He's out, he's found a
• 46:06
  Speaker 1: work for I think he said around him month he's
• 46:08
  Speaker 1: there waiting to bury his son. The investigation still ongoing,
• 46:12
  Speaker 1: so he's out of work. He is in a homework
• 46:15
  Speaker 1: he wants to get out of but he cannot. You know,
• 46:17
  Speaker 1: you're gonna eat first and last bunch, rents a moving trust, utility,
• 46:21
  Speaker 1: expenses all kinds of stuff that goes into movies, and
• 46:25
  Speaker 1: so his mother on his behalf. If she started to
• 46:29
  Speaker 1: go go fund me, to help him raise the fund
• 46:32
  Speaker 1: so he can can a first start for himself before
• 46:34
  Speaker 1: his daughter. You know I'm projecting right here, But Jonathan, Um,
• 46:41
  Speaker 1: after Keith was murdered, I dropped out of school. I
• 46:46
  Speaker 1: lost down to eighty nine pounds. I couldn't think, I couldn't,
• 46:51
  Speaker 1: wouldn't eat. I it was horrible. And if that had
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: been my child, God forbid, it would be ten thousand
• 47:02
  Speaker 1: times or worse. I mean, I thought I knew what
• 47:05
  Speaker 1: love was. I didn't know anything until I had a child.
• 47:09
  Speaker 1: It changed everything. Jonathan, your days have got to be
• 47:15
  Speaker 1: like a nightmare. When you wake up in the morning,
• 47:21
  Speaker 1: What is your day like? Yes, it's a I mean
• 47:25
  Speaker 1: it's an absolute nightmare. Um. You know, I still hope
• 47:30
  Speaker 1: I'm going to get a call every day to find
• 47:32
  Speaker 1: out what happened to Lucas. And you know, I worry
• 47:38
  Speaker 1: about my daughter. You know, she's okay. And at some point,
• 47:45
  Speaker 1: it's it seems like I'm living in a dream every
• 47:50
  Speaker 1: single day where when I wake up, I hope it's different,
• 47:55
  Speaker 1: but it's never different. It's always the same, and it's
• 47:59
  Speaker 1: always it's really really difficult to just even faint some days,
• 48:09
  Speaker 1: even take a shower, some days. You know, you know,
• 48:12
  Speaker 1: that's the funny thing. You said that about a shower
• 48:14
  Speaker 1: and Jonathan, because after Keith was murdered, I I I
• 48:22
  Speaker 1: wouldn't wash my hair, I wouldn't take a shower. I
• 48:26
  Speaker 1: just sit on the front porch. I remember wearing Keiths
• 48:33
  Speaker 1: Hawaiian shirt that he had gotten for some Hawaiian get together.
• 48:40
  Speaker 1: And then when I would take a shower for some reason,
• 48:44
  Speaker 1: I just start crying and then I couldn't get out
• 48:46
  Speaker 1: of the shower. I remember it like it was yesterday.
• 48:52
  Speaker 1: I guess it's what you said. Your conversations were normal,
• 48:58
  Speaker 1: but nothing is normal. Everything is upside down. Lee. What
• 49:04
  Speaker 1: what is his go fund me titled what is the
• 49:07
  Speaker 1: account for anyone wishing to help Jonathan Hernandez? It's called
• 49:12
  Speaker 1: Jonathan and Mia. You would go to go fund me
• 49:15
  Speaker 1: dot com BackFlash Jonathan, dash and Dashna and that's them.
• 49:21
  Speaker 1: I eight and Jonathan does not have the h is
• 49:25
  Speaker 1: j O N A T h A N dash and
• 49:30
  Speaker 1: dash Am I eight. As we await for justice to unfold,
• 49:34
  Speaker 1: to find out not only the autopsy results on Emily Glass,
• 49:38
  Speaker 1: the stepmother, but Lucas Hernandez, the five year old little boy,
• 49:43
  Speaker 1: as well, let me remind you to wait until all
• 49:48
  Speaker 1: the facts are in before there is any rush to judgment.
• 49:53
  Speaker 1: As the dad Jonathan manages somehow to struggle to put
• 49:59
  Speaker 1: one foot before the other every day Nancy Grace crime
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