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Apple Weighs Using Anthropic and OpenAI to Power Siri · Bloomberg Intelligence

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  Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. You're listening to the
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  Speaker 1: Listen on demand wherever you get your podcasts, or watch
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  Speaker 2: I'll tell you one of the biggest pieces of the
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  Speaker 2: news for me today.
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  Speaker 3: Or he came out.
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  Speaker 2: Yes, say Apple, I mean here's the Bloomberg headline, Apple
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  Speaker 2: ways using outside AI power to power serie in a
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  Speaker 2: major shift. This is Apple saying we kind of can't
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  Speaker 2: get this AI thing going, so we'll let somebody else
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  Speaker 2: do it for ust. To me, that was shocking stock
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  Speaker 2: market like this stocks up a couple of percent today.
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  Speaker 2: But I need to figure out what's going on here,
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  Speaker 2: So I said, Man Deep, sing Bloomberg Intelligence senior tech analyst,
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  Speaker 2: I need you in our studio here, Man Deep.
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  Speaker 3: To me, this seemed big.
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  Speaker 2: Yes, I mean Apple, they got the new headquarters, they
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  Speaker 2: got like a gajillion scientist. They're saying, we can't really
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  Speaker 2: get AI as well as we want it, as quickly
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  Speaker 2: as we want it, so we'll maybe use somebody outside.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, if you remember at WWDC. All they
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  Speaker 4: showcase was that new liquid glass interface. There was no
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  Speaker 4: mention of AI, so it was pretty obvious that they
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  Speaker 4: had nothing new to showcase from an LLM perspective. And look,
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  Speaker 4: given the astronomical rise of chatchpt and how it's taken
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  Speaker 4: the user and engagement share, I mean, everyone is looking
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  Speaker 4: to use that kind of functionality on the apps that
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  Speaker 4: live within the Apple ecosystem, whether it's your email, your calendar,
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  Speaker 4: your contacts, like the photos that are stored on iCloud.
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  Speaker 4: You have to ask to yourself, why can't Apple deploy
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  Speaker 4: AI in a similar fashion where I can engage in
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  Speaker 4: a chatchipt type format. And so that's the use case here. Obviously,
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  Speaker 4: Apple's own LLM efforts have gone nowhere because they have,
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  Speaker 4: frankly speaking, underinvested. I mean, look at their capex versus
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  Speaker 4: all the other hyperskillers. They're spending eighty billion dollars. Apple
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  Speaker 4: is spending ten billion dollars, So it's just not the
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  Speaker 4: same level of investment. And they underappreciated how transformational this
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  Speaker 4: generative AI LLLM wave is going to be. And now
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  Speaker 4: they are partnering with an entropic and or open AI.
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  Speaker 4: I think Entropic makes more sense to me because open
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  Speaker 4: ai has clearly said they have their own hardware ambitions,
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  Speaker 4: and to my mind, Entropic is an enterprise focused player.
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  Speaker 4: They have already partnered with Amazon, and in this case
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  Speaker 4: they probably will partner with Apple as well.
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  Speaker 5: And as Paul mentioned, the stock market it wasn't disappointed
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  Speaker 5: in this snooze. The stock was up yesterday when Bloomberg's
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  Speaker 5: Mark Erman wrote the story, which I do think it
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  Speaker 5: came out. I think he breaks, yes, he does break everything.
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  Speaker 5: I think there came after the close. But still the
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  Speaker 5: stock is hired today, so this is good.
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  Speaker 3: I mean, talk a.
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  Speaker 5: Little bit more about the partnerships because if Anthropic is
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  Speaker 5: partnering with Amazon as well, like, this isn't really an
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  Speaker 5: exclusive deal that they're doing. Apple's just going to have
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  Speaker 5: the same AI as all the other times.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah, but Apple controls the distribution across their iOS devices,
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  Speaker 4: and whether it's your tablet or your smartphone or macpcs,
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  Speaker 4: it's the Apple iOS ecosystem. So if Entropics LLM is
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  Speaker 4: natively integrated, I mean, look at how much Microsoft has
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  Speaker 4: benefited from OpenAI's partnership.
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  Speaker 3: Microsoft doesn't have.
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  Speaker 4: Their own LLM. The fact that they have risen so
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  Speaker 4: much is because of the Open Ai partnership. So partnership
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  Speaker 4: isn't a bad thing for Apple. And in this case,
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  Speaker 4: clearly Entropic has a very good LLM. On the tech side,
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  Speaker 4: maybe you could argue in terms of multi modality, open
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  Speaker 4: Ai and Google are ahead, but for a text LM,
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  Speaker 4: anthropics performance is comparable at part with the frontier models,
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  Speaker 4: and that's where it makes a ton of sense that
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  Speaker 4: they use Anthropic.
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  Speaker 2: Thirty seconds, Can I think about this potent this announcement
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  Speaker 2: similar to Apple saying we're going to.
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  Speaker 3: Use Google for search.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah, And part of the reason why there is no
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  Speaker 4: mention of Google here is because of that anti trust
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  Speaker 4: case that's pending. So clearly what Apple wants to signal
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  Speaker 4: is they don't want to do anything with Google right now,
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  Speaker 4: given that monopoly lawsuit and the twenty plus billion dollar
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  Speaker 4: of payment from Google to Apple, and right now they
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  Speaker 4: are really diversifying their exposure to these LLM players they
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  Speaker 4: could have very well used in LLLM, and I wouldn't
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  Speaker 4: be surprised down the line once this DOOJ case is resolved,
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  Speaker 4: and if it's if it works out fine, they may
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  Speaker 4: end up using Google's LM as well. Apple's main goal
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  Speaker 4: here is to have as many LLLM partners and really
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  Speaker 4: not depend on just one, whether it's Opening Hour and tropic.
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  Speaker 4: They want five players, and I think they would be
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  Speaker 4: willing to use anyone.
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  Speaker 2: All right, all right, I thought it was a big deal,
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  Speaker 2: But again I kind of liken it to this whole
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  Speaker 2: search thing.
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  Speaker 3: We'll do search with Global.
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  Speaker 2: If they have better search, we'll use that so on
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  Speaker 2: our phones. Men Deep Singh, he breaks it down for
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  Speaker 2: us as he always does. Mendep Sing's senior tech analyst
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: Bloomberg Intelligence. He kind of runs it with Anna Ragrana.
• 5:30
  Speaker 2: They kind of run our global technology team. We've got
• 5:33
  Speaker 2: annalysts in Europe, North America and Asia covering the global
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: tech industry because that.
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  Speaker 3: Is a driver of the value in these markets. This
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  Speaker 3: is great.
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  Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Intelligence podcast. Catch us live
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  Speaker 3: Won the movie. I want to see this thing.
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  Speaker 2: I did not see it yet, but it had a
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  Speaker 2: good US box office even better international box office.
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  Speaker 3: Emily, did you see it? No?
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  Speaker 5: But it has a star studded lineup.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, is the main star. I'm gonna wait for the
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  Speaker 3: book to come out. You can wait for the book
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  Speaker 3: to come out. John Tuck with it. And that's good
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  Speaker 3: news for Apple because they produced the movie.
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  Speaker 2: It's good news for I guess Brad Pitt, but maybe
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  Speaker 2: it's good news for f one in general. Keitha rang
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  Speaker 2: Anathan joins US. She's a US media analyst and she's got.
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  Speaker 3: An interesting angle here. Getha. First, let's just talk about
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  Speaker 3: the movie.
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  Speaker 2: That's good to see a successful movie in the movie
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  Speaker 2: theaters these days that I guess the movie theater companies
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  Speaker 2: are pretty happy.
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  Speaker 6: Very happy, Paul. So this was obviously, as you just
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  Speaker 6: pointed out, a big success story for Apple. They've been
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  Speaker 6: dabbling in these theatrical films for quite a bit now,
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  Speaker 6: but none of you know, none of their movies have
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  Speaker 6: had this much of a success. So this is really
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  Speaker 6: good news, and I think it kind of really emboldens
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  Speaker 6: them with respect to their strategy. So definitely, movie theaters
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  Speaker 6: are happy. And the other point that I'd like to
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  Speaker 6: make is, you know, more than twenty to twenty five
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  Speaker 6: percent of the total box office actually came in from Imax.
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  Speaker 6: So this is really good news for the exhibiters because
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  Speaker 6: the premium large format, that whole thing about going to
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  Speaker 6: the theater to experience the movie is really working.
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  Speaker 5: Okay, so your latest note is about how this F
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  Speaker 5: one movie here from Apple is going to jolt you say,
• 7:23
  Speaker 5: lackluster lackluster bidding for the Formula one rights in the US.
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  Speaker 5: Just give us a little bit of context here the
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  Speaker 5: landscape of rights for Formula one, Who currently has the rights,
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  Speaker 5: when does that expire? And just put into context kind
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  Speaker 5: of the current bidding right now?
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  Speaker 6: Sure, Emily, so right now. So Formula one is, you know,
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  Speaker 6: is a global sports, global media property in the US.
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  Speaker 6: The rights to distribute Formula one content is owned by
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  Speaker 6: Disney's ESPN, so they have rights that go through the
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  Speaker 6: end of this year to the end of twenty twenty five.
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  Speaker 6: Their current paying about eighty five million dollars a year.
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  Speaker 6: That's up from their last negotiation negotiation cycle when they
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  Speaker 6: were paying only about five million dollars, so it's it's
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  Speaker 6: up to eighty five million. But what F one is
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  Speaker 6: saying is that this is such an interesting property. This
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  Speaker 6: is you know, a hot property, you should be paying
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  Speaker 6: up for it, and they are really looking for something
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  Speaker 6: upwards of about one hundred and fifty two hundred and
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  Speaker 6: sixty million, and I'm not so sure ESPN wants to
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  Speaker 6: pay that that much money. So it's really price is
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  Speaker 6: really a sticking point here, and it looks like we've
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  Speaker 6: hit a little bit of a stalemate because you know,
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  Speaker 6: when you kind of think about, yes, this is a property.
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  Speaker 6: By the way, this prob you know, F one really
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  Speaker 6: kind of shot into the limelight in the US Emily
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  Speaker 6: and Paul with the Netflix drive to survive series. Now,
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  Speaker 6: Netflix has been hugely, actually instrumental in kind of driving
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  Speaker 6: this Surgeon popularity. So everybody was kind of wondering whether
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  Speaker 6: Netflix or you know, maybe another streamer like an Amazon
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  Speaker 6: would kind of come in and bid for the rights.
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  Speaker 6: But I think what we're seeing with a lot of
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  Speaker 6: these streaming platforms is that they want glows rights. These
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  Speaker 6: are all global streaming platforms. They want rights to distribute
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  Speaker 6: this content in all markets, and they're not going to
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  Speaker 6: be able to get that right.
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  Speaker 2: Now because Formula one, who's their European over is that
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  Speaker 2: Warner Brothers Discovery, who distributes Sky.
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  Speaker 6: Sky actually distributes them in most markets, so you know, Ireland, UK, Germany,
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  Speaker 6: Italy again, France, Spain, they all have a little bit
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  Speaker 6: different you know, distributors, but Sky is a is a
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  Speaker 6: very big one across most of Europe.
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  Speaker 5: Wouldn't Apple be the obvious choice to partner up and
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  Speaker 5: you know, get the rights to Formula one because they
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  Speaker 5: just made this a blockbuster hit about Formula one.
• 9:42
  Speaker 6: You would think so, you know, but it's been a
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  Speaker 6: little bit of a we you know. Again, it's it's
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  Speaker 6: hard to actually figure out what Apple is thinking here.
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  Speaker 6: One thing that Apple doesn't have, which both Amazon and
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  Speaker 6: Netflix have, is scale. So Netflix has well over three
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  Speaker 6: hundred million global subscribers. Amazon probably has closed about three
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  Speaker 6: hundred million as well on their video streaming service. Apple,
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  Speaker 6: on the other hand, has probably less than fifteen million,
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  Speaker 6: so they don't necessarily have the scale to support it.
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  Speaker 6: And remember there are a few other things with the
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  Speaker 6: Formula one property. You don't have a lot of advertising
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  Speaker 6: inventory necessarily, So again that's something that doesn't necessarily appeal
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  Speaker 6: to streamers, especially because all of these different streaming platforms
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  Speaker 6: are really trying to build out their ad business. A
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  Speaker 6: Formula one doesn't necessarily lend itself to that, but you're
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  Speaker 6: absolutely right. Apple could be a very interested party down
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  Speaker 6: the road.
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  Speaker 2: And for those who care, one can actually invest directly
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  Speaker 2: in Formula one. It's a public traded company fwonk. I
• 10:40
  Speaker 2: like Formula one K it's owned by John Malone and
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: Liberty Media. There's a million different share classes out there,
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  Speaker 2: but Formula one keith, I mean, under John Mallan's leadership,
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  Speaker 2: they've done a good job of increasing rights, sporting rights
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  Speaker 2: and sponsorships and all that kind of stuff, making it actually.
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  Speaker 6: Profitable, very profitable, and you know, they've done a fantastic
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  Speaker 6: job with the media rights. Again, they've really capitalized on
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  Speaker 6: this huge surgeon popularity because remember F one was really
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  Speaker 6: more of a European really not so big in America,
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  Speaker 6: but they've really kind of capitalized on this huge momentum
• 11:16
  Speaker 6: in the United States. And you're absolutely right. They've added
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  Speaker 6: a whole lot of races, made it a year round calendar,
• 11:21
  Speaker 6: lots of sponsorship money. So they've done a very good
• 11:24
  Speaker 6: job with this new Liberty Media management team.
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: Ethan, real quick, well we got you thirty seconds. Are
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: people feeling better about Disney these days?
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  Speaker 6: They absolutely are, so one of the things that we
• 11:34
  Speaker 6: were so worried about was the theme parks and whether
• 11:36
  Speaker 6: you know, we were going to see a slow down
• 11:38
  Speaker 6: there because of just general economic uncertainty. Also Epic, which
• 11:42
  Speaker 6: is the Comcast property opening in Florida. Right, but so
• 11:45
  Speaker 6: far we haven't seen any signs of a slowdown. So
• 11:47
  Speaker 6: things are looking actually pretty good for Disney.
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: All right, stocks up ten percent this year, better than
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: the market, ether rong and notthan She covers all the
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: global media stuff for Bloomberg Intelligence zooming in from Princeton,
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: New Jersey again formerly one Stock. I mean, the movie
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: Open last week really good, box office nut crazy good,
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: but very good and very good.
• 12:07
  Speaker 3: International got great reviews, so people think.
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: It might have legs, is what they say in the
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: business over the following weeks here, So we'll see how
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: that does for Apple and see what it means for
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: the Formula one racing circuit.
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Intelligence podcast. Catch us live
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• 12:28
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• 12:35
  Speaker 2: All right, let's switch gears let's talk at global shipping here.
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: We're talking a lot about that really since the pandemic,
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: when we really started to get knowledgeable, if you will,
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: about the supply chains and where stuff comes from and
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: where it goes and how it gets there, and how
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: supply chains can be fragile. And now with all the
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: geopolitical tensions in various parts of the world, global shipping
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: and the threat to global shipping is once again at
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: the forefront. We're going to check in with Stomatis Santanas.
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  Speaker 2: He is the chairman and chief executive officer of Synergy
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: Maritime and that is a NASDAQ listed security company. S
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: Hip is the great symbol there. Stomatis, thanks so much
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: for joining us here. A lot of hot spots in
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: the world. You think about the straight of horror mooves,
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: We've been hearing about that over the last several weeks.
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: Of course, what's happening in the Baltics with Ukraine. How
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: do you, guys, how a would you characterize the current
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: global shipping business these days?
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  Speaker 7: Well, good morning and thank you for having me. It
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  Speaker 7: is indeed quite challenging. I mean, we've had the COVID
• 13:40
  Speaker 7: and then we had the pretty much closure of the
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  Speaker 7: Red Sea because of the Hootes, and then everything became
• 13:46
  Speaker 7: even more challenging with the horror moves or the potential
• 13:50
  Speaker 7: closure of that. So you know, we tend to navigate
• 13:53
  Speaker 7: all this zeopolitical challenge is quite successfully so far. You know,
• 13:59
  Speaker 7: it's it's all about infrastructure. I mean, what's going on
• 14:02
  Speaker 7: right now and whatever we believe to be the normalization
• 14:06
  Speaker 7: of whatever conflict in the Middle East. Hopefully that is
• 14:09
  Speaker 7: going to lead to a very big infrastructure boom in
• 14:12
  Speaker 7: the area, which is already pretty much started and booming.
• 14:15
  Speaker 7: And I believe that this is going to help shipping,
• 14:17
  Speaker 7: especially dry out that we operate in, very very much stimatus.
• 14:22
  Speaker 5: In addition to your role at Synergy, you're also the
• 14:25
  Speaker 5: founder and chairman and CEO of United Maritime Corporation. Together
• 14:29
  Speaker 5: you have a total of twenty five ships in the ocean.
• 14:33
  Speaker 5: I'm wondering if you had to reroute anything any shipping
• 14:36
  Speaker 5: routes in the wake of the latest Middle East tensions.
• 14:41
  Speaker 7: Well, we have been rerouting a lot of our ships,
• 14:43
  Speaker 7: about a third of our fleet has been rerouting already
• 14:47
  Speaker 7: to avoid the Red Sea, which it was kind of
• 14:50
  Speaker 7: underplay how important that passage has been for global shipping,
• 14:53
  Speaker 7: especially for big bulkers like we do. We were transporting
• 14:58
  Speaker 7: a lot of coal from Tralia to Europe because of
• 15:01
  Speaker 7: the energy needs, and we did a lot of coal
• 15:04
  Speaker 7: cargoes from Baltimore, USA to the West coast of India.
• 15:08
  Speaker 7: All of this routing were from the Red Sea. Now
• 15:11
  Speaker 7: we're going around the Cape of Good Hope. So unfortunately
• 15:15
  Speaker 7: that means more turn miles, more expensive than bankers, more
• 15:20
  Speaker 7: expensive for the consumer, and that adds a lot of
• 15:23
  Speaker 7: additional CO two emissions to the environment. Let's not forget
• 15:26
  Speaker 7: about that as well.
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: Stamnus talk to us about a global economy that's now
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: being influenced by terraffs across the globe. Here, how is
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: that impacted maybe your business, the business of your customers.
• 15:40
  Speaker 7: Well, nothing has happened so far. Everything is pretty much
• 15:43
  Speaker 7: priced thing. The world had a big alarm shock back
• 15:47
  Speaker 7: in twenty sixteen twenty seventeen with the initial phase and
• 15:51
  Speaker 7: threat by the first term of President Trump back in
• 15:55
  Speaker 7: the day. Nowadays, everything is pretty much priced thing. So
• 15:58
  Speaker 7: you know, people was kind of expecting that and we
• 16:02
  Speaker 7: didn't see any disruptions so far. What we have been
• 16:05
  Speaker 7: seeing is all this geopolitical turmoil that has affected full
• 16:09
  Speaker 7: time being long term buyers of FRA materials like caroen
• 16:14
  Speaker 7: ore and coal. But I believe this is going to
• 16:16
  Speaker 7: normalize as well, and we will come back to a
• 16:19
  Speaker 7: very very strong trading environment once again.
• 16:23
  Speaker 5: How would you assess them right now? Just a volume
• 16:26
  Speaker 5: of shipping. A couple weeks ago, right after Trump announced
• 16:30
  Speaker 5: the initial tariffs, there were a lot of concerns on
• 16:33
  Speaker 5: Wall Street that shipping was going to drop, shelves were
• 16:36
  Speaker 5: going to be empty. Do you think those fears were
• 16:38
  Speaker 5: overblown in hindsight?
• 16:41
  Speaker 7: Well, yes, I mean that initial plan on Liberation Day
• 16:45
  Speaker 7: was pretty much I'm not so sure how to characterize that,
• 16:49
  Speaker 7: but of course it got the world into a big shock.
• 16:52
  Speaker 7: Nobody was expecting that all these sixty seventy eighty ninety
• 16:56
  Speaker 7: percent global tariffs were going to go through, and it
• 16:59
  Speaker 7: appeared to be that, you know, after the initial shop
• 17:02
  Speaker 7: of the first few weeks, things kind of normalize. So
• 17:06
  Speaker 7: there are numerous deals being happening with each individual country
• 17:10
  Speaker 7: or continent or European Union or you name it. And
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  Speaker 7: I believe that we're very very close to pretty much
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  Speaker 7: underwinding all the trouble that we saw with you know,
• 17:20
  Speaker 7: without liberation day. Of course, please be reminded that global
• 17:25
  Speaker 7: trade has been continuing like nothing has happened. No, you know,
• 17:30
  Speaker 7: material types have been imposed so far, so so far
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  Speaker 7: it's been business as usual. We haven't really seen any
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  Speaker 7: disruptions in respect of that. It was more psychological impact,
• 17:41
  Speaker 7: you know, rather than anything material.
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  Speaker 3: So modest.
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: How does your company compete with some of the you know,
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: the big global monster kind of shipping companies like you know,
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: the Molar, Marisk and and things like that.
• 17:53
  Speaker 3: How do you guys compete, Well.
• 17:56
  Speaker 7: It's a totally different industry. They operate mostly in the
• 18:00
  Speaker 7: humer industry because the transport containers. We are doing a
• 18:04
  Speaker 7: more park iron, ore, coal and box side, which is
• 18:08
  Speaker 7: very very important in the infrastructure growth of the world.
• 18:12
  Speaker 7: Right now, we have trillions of dollars of global infrastructure
• 18:15
  Speaker 7: being committed and fully funded. So this is going through
• 18:19
  Speaker 7: especially in the Middle East. As you know, President Trump
• 18:21
  Speaker 7: has at least seven or eight new buildings being built
• 18:25
  Speaker 7: in Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, O Man and all this place
• 18:28
  Speaker 7: over there. We're talking about multi billion dollar projects. And
• 18:31
  Speaker 7: I believe that the transportation of iron or coal and
• 18:34
  Speaker 7: box site will help in all this massive infrastructure that
• 18:38
  Speaker 7: we have been experiencing and all of these things going
• 18:41
  Speaker 7: on right now. So we do not really support the
• 18:44
  Speaker 7: consumer needs of the US or Europe, but we do
• 18:48
  Speaker 7: support substantially the transportation needs for infrastructure in various parts
• 18:53
  Speaker 7: of the world. That's what we do.
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: Fascinating story. Thank you for giving us a few minutes
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: of your time. Stamatis Santanas. He's a chairman in chief
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: executive officer of Synergy Maritime, also the founder, chairman and
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: CEO of United Maritime Corporation. Both of those are publicly
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: traded companies talk about the global shipping business, and infrastructure
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: is a big part of their growth story.
• 19:14
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