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Off Record: Stalked Twice · The Knife: A True Crime Podcast

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: This story contains adult content and language. Listener discretion is advised.
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Knife Off Record. I'm Hannah Smith. I'm
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: Patia Eaton. I have a story for you today, Hannah.
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: That is one part something that happened many years ago,
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: but there was a more recent case that led me
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: to this one, and they are strangely connected, and so
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: I thought, oh, I would like to look into this
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  Speaker 1: and see what I can find out.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: Great, I am excited to hear about it. I love
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: a case that leads to another case. Yeah, it's one
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  Speaker 1: of those little headlines I reached out to someone, didn't
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: hear back, and then just kept looking into it and
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: saw there was a tie to a previous story.
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  Speaker 2: So cool. How we get into it? Yes, all right.
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: So it's September eighth, nineteen eighty four, and in her
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  Speaker 1: home in Terrence County, Texas, single mother Lavin Scalius is
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  Speaker 1: asleep in her bed. She's abruptly woken up by a
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  Speaker 1: loud noise and then the terrifying sight of a masked intruder.
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  Speaker 1: She tries to get away, but he jumps on her.
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  Speaker 1: He has a gun, he has a knife, and a
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  Speaker 1: voice that she describes as gruff. And because this is
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: in nineteen eighty four, I got a lot of these
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: stories from either core documents or a lot of the
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: details I suld say in court documents and newspaper articles
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  Speaker 1: from the Fort Worth Star Telegram in the Houston Chronicle.
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  Speaker 1: Because so this was nineteen eighty four. How old was
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: she at the time. At the time, she was I
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  Speaker 1: believe in her early thirties.
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  Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, yeah.
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  Speaker 1: So she's woken up by this masked intruder. He holds
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: her down, he pushes her onto her her stomach, and
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: he pulls her hands behind her and tells her not
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: to scream, and then he hits her twice in the
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: head with his gun, and she's, you know, bleeding profusely.
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  Speaker 1: Her daughter is asleep down the hall. So Levon can
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: feel a searing pain in her right hand for a moment,
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  Speaker 1: and she breaks free. She's able to like wriggle herself
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  Speaker 1: away from him, and she runs toward the kitchen and
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: tries to open the door to get out of her house,
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  Speaker 1: and she realizes she can't grasp the doorknob, and then
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: she sees that he's cut off her thumb.
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  Speaker 2: Oh my god, So she's.
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Like that's adrenaline for you. She's bleeding from her
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  Speaker 1: head where he hit her with the gun and he
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  Speaker 1: cut off her finger, and she's still trying to get
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  Speaker 1: to safety, like intentionally cut her finger off. Oh yeah,
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  Speaker 1: it was intentional. She him a little bit of time
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  Speaker 1: at the moment because the adrenaline or something. Yeah, And
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  Speaker 1: so he grabs hers her back into the home and
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: she knows who this is.
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: Oh, she recognizes him.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, But he asks her for her name and she
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  Speaker 1: says her name is Sally, but he knows it's not true.
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  Speaker 1: And then he asks where her daughter is because she
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  Speaker 1: knows who this is, and he knows who this is
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  Speaker 1: in the house before he came in. It's just her
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  Speaker 1: and her daughter, right, she's a single mother. Okay, So
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  Speaker 1: Levn tells the man her daughter is at a friend's house.
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  Speaker 1: But you know that's not true. Her daughter's asleep down
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  Speaker 1: the hall, and Levn's trying to, you know, shield her
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  Speaker 1: from this person. So the man pushes Levon into a bathroom.
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  Speaker 1: He holds her at gunpoint, and demand says she cleaned
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  Speaker 1: the blood off herself, and you know she has no
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  Speaker 1: choice but to try to do that. He's holding a
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: gun to her head, and so I think she steps
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  Speaker 1: into the bathtub and tries to start cleaning herself off,
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  Speaker 1: and then he goes looking for her daughter, and she
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  Speaker 1: is so scary, and I mean, I just can't imagine
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  Speaker 1: a worse thing to be feeling in that moment for
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  Speaker 1: a mom and you know, she's limited as to what
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  Speaker 1: she could do at that point. And so she sees
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  Speaker 1: him open her daughter's bedroom door and look in, and
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  Speaker 1: she pretends to faint to get his attention, which I mean, wow.
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  Speaker 1: And so she distracts him long enough to redirect his
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  Speaker 1: attention and then once again is able to wiggle her
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  Speaker 1: way free and try to call for help. He once
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  Speaker 1: again pulls her back in. She reaches for a phone
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  Speaker 1: and realizes he's cut the phone line. It's completely dead,
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  Speaker 1: I mean, a complete nightmare. And he slams the door
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  Speaker 1: on her leg so hard that it breaks into places.
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  Speaker 2: Oh my god.
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  Speaker 1: So this woman has been hit in the head with
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  Speaker 1: a gun, her thumb has been cut off, he's broken
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  Speaker 1: her leg, and then he sexually assaults her. This is
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  Speaker 1: reminding me, obviously it's really different, but it's reminding me
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: of the Jennifer Thompson story. Where an intruder came into
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  Speaker 1: her house just because it was also pre cell phones,
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  Speaker 1: and also the perpetrator had cut the phone lines. Right,
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  Speaker 1: I'm just like, yeah, like how often was that happening
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  Speaker 1: pre cell phone? Because then you have no way to
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  Speaker 1: call someone, right, She's her only hope is to physically
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  Speaker 1: escape this person, and she's incredibly badly injured. Yeah, yeah,
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  Speaker 1: And so he sexually assaults her. He forces her then
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  Speaker 1: back into the bathtub and again tells her to clean
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  Speaker 1: herself up, and then he returns again to her daughter's
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  Speaker 1: room and looks in, but he doesn't go in, I
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  Speaker 1: don't think. And while he's walking away toward the daughter's room,
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  Speaker 1: Lavon manages to pull her body outside and he finds
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  Speaker 1: her again pulls her back in, but this time they're
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  Speaker 1: in the garage, and so she's in the garage long
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  Speaker 1: enough to make her way back out when he goes
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  Speaker 1: back in, and she gets herself to a neighbor's house.
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  Speaker 1: It's a little after five am by this.
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  Speaker 2: Point, and they call nine one one.
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  Speaker 1: Does she tell the neighbor who this person is? Maybe
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  Speaker 1: I'm getting ahead of it, Yeah, so great question. She
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  Speaker 1: knows who it is, and she immediately tells her neighbor
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  Speaker 1: and authorities who it is. So Lamana has now survived
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  Speaker 1: the unthinkable and managed to do that well, simultaneously distracting
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  Speaker 1: her attacker long enough that her daughter, who we later
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  Speaker 1: learned had in fact woken up and was just shielding
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  Speaker 1: her ears like cupping her ears, you know, because she
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  Speaker 1: heard all of the violence and terror happening outside her room,
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  Speaker 1: but she was physically unharmed. I also just want to
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  Speaker 1: remind myself and listeners as you're telling me this, that
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  Speaker 1: her leg is broken and her thumb has been cut off.
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  Speaker 1: It's that survival instinct and instinct to protect your child.
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  Speaker 1: I mean, it's incredible. Yeah, I mean, just what she
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  Speaker 1: went through to save her life in her daughters that
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  Speaker 1: night is I mean, it's mind blowing. But so she
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  Speaker 1: knows who it is, and she knows who it is
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  Speaker 1: because he has done this to her before.
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  Speaker 2: He's done this to her before.
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  Speaker 1: Yep, he has done this to her before, and what like,
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  Speaker 1: meaning he's broken into her home before, yes, and assaulted her.
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  Speaker 1: This is the second time this man has broken into
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  Speaker 1: her home and sexually assaulted her, raped her. Now we're
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  Speaker 1: backing up to nineteen seventy four, Lavon is still married.
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  Speaker 1: She's living in Fort Worth with her husband, and her
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  Speaker 1: daughter is about a toddler age at the time. So
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  Speaker 1: Levaughn begins receiving anonymous phone calls. This is in nineteen
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  Speaker 1: seventy four. They're threatening, they're strange, they're anonymous. She doesn't
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  Speaker 1: know who's making them, and they continue for years. But
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  Speaker 1: a short time later, I think, unrelated to the calls,
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  Speaker 1: Lavon and her husband separate, okay, and they eventually divorced.
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  Speaker 1: So now she's a single mother. They move just north
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  Speaker 1: of Fort Worth. And being a single mother in Texas
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  Speaker 1: in the nineteen seventies, I can't imagine it was easy
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  Speaker 1: or that she knew a lot of people in her
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  Speaker 1: similar situation. But she was managing and she was also
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  Speaker 1: working as a secretary. But in nineteen seventy seven, Levan's
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  Speaker 1: entire life changed and late at night, while she and
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  Speaker 1: her daughter were asleep, her daughter was about five years
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  Speaker 1: old at this time, a man breaks into their house
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  Speaker 1: and it's this same man that we learned about raping
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  Speaker 1: her again nineteen eighty four. Did she know this man
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  Speaker 1: or this was a total stranger? Okay? Scary, I mean
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  Speaker 1: all of it is scary, but yeah, yeah, And so
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  Speaker 1: this time she's awoken to the sound of glass breaking.
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  Speaker 1: He'd broken in through her bedroom. But back in nineteen
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  Speaker 1: seventy seven, it looked very similar to what he did
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  Speaker 1: in nineteen eighty four. He had a knife, He was
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  Speaker 1: incredibly violent. He said awful things to her, really threatned
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  Speaker 1: and trying to sort of dominate her, like if you
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  Speaker 1: don't do this, then you're going to be I'm going
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  Speaker 1: to hurt you. And did he cut the phone lines
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  Speaker 1: back then as well? I couldn't figure out if he
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  Speaker 1: cut the phone lines quid then. But after the assault,
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  Speaker 1: he you know, disappeared back into the night and she
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  Speaker 1: went to the police. So back in nineteen seventy seven,
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  Speaker 1: he's a stranger that broke into her house, assaulted her,
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  Speaker 1: just her, not her daughter, right, and you know, in
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  Speaker 1: this very similar, gross, violent, horrible way.
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  Speaker 2: And then he leaves.
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  Speaker 1: He leaves, and Levon goes to the police and she's like,
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  Speaker 1: this is what happened. They take her report and they
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  Speaker 1: show her a photo lineup, okay, and she immediately identifies
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  Speaker 1: him in his name is Lonnie Jean Bever's junior, Okay,
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  Speaker 1: And this identification matches up with fingerprints that they're able
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  Speaker 1: to find on the kitchen window of her home. So
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  Speaker 1: that's how she knows. Okay, it is person Lanny Jean
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  Speaker 1: Bevers Junior. First name is la n n Y Lannie. Okay,
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  Speaker 1: so how does she know this person? She barely knows him.
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  Speaker 1: Levaughn was barely acquainted with Lanny because his brother had
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  Speaker 1: done some yard work for her ex husband. They were
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  Speaker 1: not friends, they were never in a relationship. In fact,
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  Speaker 1: he was only reports said between eighteen and twenty one.
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  Speaker 1: Some said Lanny was Yeah, he was very young. She
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  Speaker 1: would have been in her twenties at the time.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: So they live in the same area, the same community.
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  Speaker 1: And there's this like very brief point of contact, not
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  Speaker 1: even direct contact. Yeah, she never thought of him until
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  Speaker 1: the photo lineup. But did she recognize him, Like, do
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  Speaker 1: you know if she had known who he was or
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: later put it together this is the brother of the
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  Speaker 1: guy that did She was able to put it together
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  Speaker 1: once she realized the pictures that they were showing her,
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  Speaker 1: and you know, she had some idea that led them
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  Speaker 1: to him. She wasn't because of the phone calls, but
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  Speaker 1: she had never said to them, I know who it
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  Speaker 1: is until the nineteen eighty four in sident. Okay, And
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  Speaker 1: so in the nineteen seventy seven incident, he wasn't wearing
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  Speaker 1: a mask or anything. I don't know if he was
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  Speaker 1: wearing a mask, but she clearly was able to recognize him. Yeah,
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  Speaker 1: and she may have known his voice. I mean, he
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: had been calling her, yeah, and so at that point
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  Speaker 1: she was like, this is the anonymous caller. Okay, So
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  Speaker 1: he was the anonymous caller and so so he's been
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  Speaker 1: stalking her, we can assume, yeah, and then for years
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  Speaker 1: he breaks into her house and assaults her violently, so
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  Speaker 1: she is able to identify him to the police though. Yeah,
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  Speaker 1: she's able to identify him, and they're able to confirm
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  Speaker 1: that she has the right person with these fingerprints, and
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  Speaker 1: then of course she tells them about the phone calls
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  Speaker 1: and it all comes together. But he's a member of
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  Speaker 1: the military, and Bever's actually goes off to Germany within
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  Speaker 1: a day or two of that first attack in nineteen
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  Speaker 1: seventy seven, so they have to extradite him to the
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  Speaker 1: United States, but they do, and in March of nineteen
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  Speaker 1: seventy eight, a jury convicts him of aggravated sexual assault
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  Speaker 1: with a deadly weapon and he is sentenced to twenty years.
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  Speaker 2: Wow.
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  Speaker 1: Okay, so he's sentenced to twenty years. Why was he
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  Speaker 1: back at her house in nineteen eighty four. Yeah, So
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  Speaker 1: this conviction that happens in nineteen seventy eight, it doesn't
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  Speaker 1: undo the terror of what happened to her that night,
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  Speaker 1: but it meant something. It meant, Okay, I have time.
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  Speaker 1: I have time to be safe, to help my daughter
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  Speaker 1: feel safe again. So he's so mine that he's not
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  Speaker 1: out there wandering the streets able to stalk her.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, for anyone else.
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  Speaker 1: Or anyone else? Yeah, sorry, because you said for safety
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  Speaker 1: for her and her daughter. So do you love her
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  Speaker 1: daughter woke up that first time? I just love if
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: her daughter woke up the first time. But I can
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  Speaker 1: imagine like the fear of being targeted by someone, especially
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  Speaker 1: someone so just gross and violent. But then to feel like, okay,
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  Speaker 1: does this target that they put on me in danger
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  Speaker 1: my daughter? Like that would be I mean a horrific
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  Speaker 1: situation to have to live through. Is like is she
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  Speaker 1: safe here? I mean, if I'm not safe here, is
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: she safe here?
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: Totally?
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  Speaker 1: So this twenty year conviction, it felt like, Okay, this
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  Speaker 1: is something, Yeah, twenty years, you know for what he did, Yes,
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: twenty years. Whenever you were reading court documents about this,
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  Speaker 1: was there any other information that not that there's any
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  Speaker 1: reason why someone would do this that would ever make
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: it understandable, but you know, did any other information come
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  Speaker 1: out about him and why he targeted her? Did she
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: get any additional information about that at the time. So
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  Speaker 1: what I was able to look over was mostly details
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: that were in his cases where he tried to appeal, okay,
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  Speaker 1: And I didn't see any specific reason, but yeah, I
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: mean I did read in several places that they were
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: barely acquainted, like she did not when he was making
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: the phone calls. It wasn't like, oh, it's this person
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: who did yard work for us when we were married
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: and his brother. It was not like, okay, blaringly obvious.
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: So he gets this twenty year sentence in March of
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  Speaker 1: nineteen seventy eight, and it's a little bit of relief.
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  Speaker 1: But six years later he's released and no one tells
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: Levn that is horrible. You can't just like make a
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  Speaker 1: phone call and let her know. That's a failure in
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: the system, right there, huge failure and almost immediately he
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  Speaker 1: goes and commits that second attack. So he's in there
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  Speaker 1: for six years until nineteen eighty four, and then he
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  Speaker 1: immediately goes and commits the second attack. And he I
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: had told her at some point, and I could not
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: figure out where this comment took place, if it was
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: a phone call or if it was during his initial
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: trial in nineteen seventy eight. But he threatened Levon and
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: said if I get out, I'm going to kill you.
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: Like not verbatim, but that was essentially his threat, like
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: I'm going to come back for you if I get
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: the chance. And so that he's threatened her, and they
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: still let him out on parole. Yeah, they let him
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: out six years into a twenty year sentence, and they
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: didn't tell her. I mean, I can't imagine the justification
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: for letting him out, but to not tell her that
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: is like, I just wow. And so that's how she
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: immediately knew when this person showed up. She was like, Okay, yeah,
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: this is him. Yeah, And you know, memories can be
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: strange when you're in the heat of the moment and
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: fighting for your life, but it was that clear. So
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: four months after the second attack, he still hasn't been arrested.
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: So now we're in October of nineteen eighty four. She
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: knows who it is. She told the authorities right away,
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: but they don't have enough, they said, to get him.
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: They don't have enough. No, they didn't have anything. And
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: the investigation, she will talk about a little bit later, says,
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: was very badly done. That was Levin's opinion on it.
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: And that's what she told local news publications. So they
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: take a report, obviously, because there's a lot of physical
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: evidence that she's been assaulted. Someone's broken into her home,
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: but she gets badly beaten, badly beaten. Yeah, but they
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: can't find like fingerprints or something like that, supposedly supposedly,
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: So it takes four months and she gets another anonymous
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: phone call and she's like, okay, this is him. What
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: a nightmare, complete nightmare. But she tells detectives about the
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: phone call, and she starts recording the phone calls, and
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: this is like, okay, nightmare to even think of answering
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: a phone when this person is calling you and they're
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: out in the world. But she then also is in
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: the position of having to keep him on the phone
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: to keep drawing out the conversation because she needs to
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: prove that it's him, and so her phone number also
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: wasn't even listed at the time, but he knew it.
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: You know, she'd had it unlisted after that first attack.
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: The caller knew that her thumb had been cut, so
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: like another thing pointing back to Lonnie Jene Bever's junior.
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: And so finally, on January twenty ninth, nineteen eighty five,
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: he's arrested a second time, but because the investigators mishandled
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: a lot of the investigation. This is according to what
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: I read in local newspapers at the time from Lavaugh.
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: But she's actually quoted as saying everyone knows Bever's raped me,
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: but the tainted identification and the mishandling of physical evidence
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: has doomed a rape trial for now. So they've arrested him,
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: but they can't go after him for rape. Yet they
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: can go after him for retaliation. Okay, So that arrest
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: happens in January of nineteen eighty five. I mean, you
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: would imagine that in nineteen seventy seven he was sentenced
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: for sexually assaulting her. He was sentenced to twenty years.
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: He gets that early, I assume on parole. But like
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: are there no terms of his parole that he can't
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: contact her, call her, be in the same place as her, Like,
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: it shouldn't be that hard for him to be so
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: clear that he's violated this and then he needs to
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: be back in prison for the full twenty years. But
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: you know, obviously it sounds like there was a lot
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: that was not done correctly, I mean justtigation. Yeah, Like
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: just to think of whoever's reviewing his parole and deciding
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: to release him, it's like, how much thought are you
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: putting into this? Yeah, because, yeah, there should have been
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: a lot of conditions being very closely followed because that
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: was such a i mean, such a brutal thing to
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: do to someone. And so in nineteen eighty seven, so
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: now we're two years after his second arrest. So in
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: nineteen eighty five, he's arrested for the nineteen eighty four rape, okay,
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: but he's not being charged with right, He's being charged
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: with retaliation. So when he's in prison now, he's not
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: getting out right, okay. And in nineteen eighty seven he's
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: finally convicted of retaliation charge and sentenced to fifteen years.
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: But as you can imagine, this didn't bring much peace
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: for Lavaughan because the last time they let him out
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: after six years. So she still wants a rape conviction
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: for the nineteen eighty four attack, and finally in nineteen
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: eighty nine, they were able to do that because Bevers
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: had left a cigarette bud or a cigarette lighter at
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: her home and there was a moment I read about
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: in one of the articles where she said that during
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: the attack in nineteen eighty four, as they're wrestling on
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: the ground and she's trying to get away, she sees
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: a cigarette lighter on the ground and she thinks, Huh,
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: we don't smoke. What's that doing here? I don't smoke, right?
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: You know? It seems like that's the way brains to
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: sort of function in these moments when I think, this
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: is what people mean when we say times slows down,
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: is you just started noticing things. And she immediately pinpointed
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: that lighter. And so the lighter comes back into play
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: and is part of what they're able to do with
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: convicting him on this rape charge.
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: Do they get evidence from the lighter?
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they were able to get fingerprints from the lighter,
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: and I think also from a kitchen window. And in
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: November of nineteen eighty nine, he is convicted of rape
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: and sentenced to life in prison. I mean good, good,
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: But also, what are we talking about? You got fingerprints, yeah,
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: from this lighter years before. That's why she was so upset.
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: She felt like the investigation was just fumbled. Yeah, and
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: she never stopped being terrified that he would be released
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: and come after her again or her daughter.
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: And she talked to about in news interviews preparing to
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: live under an alias, saving money for plastic surgery, thinking
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: that she would have to leave town if he was
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: ever released, which, by the way, at the time, a
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: life sentence in prison in Texas would have meant he
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: could be paroled. In two thousand and five, he wasn't.
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: But life isn't always like literally to the end of
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: your natural life. And in nineteen ninety three, Levaughn decided
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: to work with the state legislature in Texas to reform
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: stocking laws.
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: Wow.
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, her testimony helped pass a law that actually made
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: stocking a crime.
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: Incredible.
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, So I mean into him for her to have
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: to relive this so publicly, for the future safety of
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: other women and yeah, and so as of late last year,
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: from what I could find Bever's is still alive but
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: still serving out his life sentence. I couldn't find very
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: much on Levon, which makes sense she probably didn't want
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: to be that t but I did find an obituary
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: and I believe she passed away in July of twenty
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: twenty three. Okay, last I read about her daughter. Her
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: daughter is married and living in a different state now,
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: and I want to mention Levon Scalius wrote a book
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: called Stocked, which I wasn't able to obtain a copy of.
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: But she wrote it with another woman who worked at
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: the courthouse who wasn't like a professional author, but this
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: woman started advocating for her and helping her through the
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: process of her investigation and helping her record the phone call.
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: So they really bonded and wrote this book together. Wow,
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: we got to get a hold of this book. I know.
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: I feel like she's so ahead of her time, which
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: is obviously a compliment, but when you're living it probably
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: feels terrible because think about how hard it is, even
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: today in twenty twenty six, to get people to understand
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: how serious stocking is, to get law enforcement to do
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: something about it. It's tricky, and I think a lot
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: of it is just like lack of education and people
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: don't realize that stocking can so easily become this very dangerous,
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: very violent thing, horrible, even if it never escalates to
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: that level. But back in the eighties, like getting people
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: to understand that, I can't even imagine it must have
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: been such a hurdle to do, and like, I'm so
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: impressed with her just pushing forward with that and then
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: also writing a book. Yeah, and you know, you can imagine,
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: Like I don't know that this happened, but if she
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: was getting those anonymous phone calls back in nineteen seventy
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: four and the first attack was in nineteen seventy seven,
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: that means for three years that was happening. And maybe
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: it was like they didn't have ways to trace phone
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: calls the way they do now. Maybe it was a
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: lack of interest, But I don't think it's unreasonable to
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: assume that in the nineteen seventies in Texas, saying you
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: got an anonymous phone call, it would be like, well,
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: that's creepy, you know, right, Like it's not creepy, it's
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: terrifying and it's threatening. Yeah, So I don't know that
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: they were dismissed. But that's just a long time for
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: that to go on, Yes, such a long time. And
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: the psychological aspect to it is horrible, you know, because
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: I imagine after that first conviction she did feel somewhat better
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: or safer knowing that he was not able to access her,
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: although he had that threat, you know, that he wielded
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: before he was sent to prison, that if he was
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: ever let out, he would come after her. I feel like,
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: if it were me, it would be hard for me
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: not to be thinking about that or worried about it.
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: And then it's like the worst nightmare comes true because
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: out of the blue, here he is again, is like
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: the monster that won't ever go away. The horrible aspect
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: of stalking is like making someone feel attacked and like
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: trapped in their own lives, like they are never sure
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: if they're really free. It's horrible, totally, and a lot
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: of these phone calls were you know, sexually explicit, just
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: vile things he's saying to her, but also a very
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: apparent desire for like ownership over her, sort of you know,
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: like you will comply or this will happen, you will
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: do what I say, or I'll hurt your daughter, you know,
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: lots of threats about her daughter's life too. I mean,
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: so for her to then drag out those phone calls
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: to help convict him, I mean just must have taken
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: everything to not just hang up. I'm also like, how
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: did she record these phone calls in the eighties? Like, well,
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: I actually tried to. There's an archived news clip. The
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: sound quality was so bad I couldn't play it. But yeah,
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: they show someone literally in a van, like an old
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: school detective looking van, with this little tape that goes
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: around and around outside doing it.
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: Was that just b roll?
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: Or was that it was b roll from a different
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: instance of this, But I think the point of it was,
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: like they're using the same technology in California, Like somehow
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: she got someone to agree to record these phone calls
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: or to tap her line. It was a member of
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: the police department. Oh okay, See, I thought that she
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: had like a little device and was figuring out how
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: to record. But I was imagining those old phones, thinking
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: can you even put them on speaker phone?
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: Like how was she doing this?
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, she had the help of local law enforcement with
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: the recordings. Okay, okay, because she knew they were happening
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: and was able to tell them these are happening, and
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: so they did take an interest in those because she said,
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: I know who this is, and so they're probably tapping
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: her phone, and then anytime he calls, then they're recording it.
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: And then were they able to trace that phone call
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: back to his phone. I don't know that they were.
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: I think it was much more like, Okay, this is
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: exactly what he said back in nineteen seventy four, in
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: nineteen seventy five, like we know.
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: Who this is.
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: Okay, so it's like context clues, and that helped them
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: build the case against him. Yeah, so he as recently
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: as I could tell, still serving a life sentence Texas.
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: And I found this story because I'd been looking into
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: a story that's more recent and I had actually brought
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: up this story to you. Oh well, this was both
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: the cases. There's a whole nother case. Yeah, okay. So
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: I don't know if you recall this conversation, but in
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: one of our many meetings, I was like, there's a
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: stocking case in Texas where they just handed down a
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: twenty year sentence for stocking, which is a landmark sentence
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: for stocking in Texas. And it was within the last
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: five years, okay, And so I looked into it. I
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: reached out to the detective who worked that case, didn't
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: hear back, reached out to the victim, didn't hear back.
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: And I was just looking at it again, which is
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: how I came to this older case. And let me
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: tell you why. So first this case that I had
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: brought up up to you, that's more recent. In twenty
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: twenty two, twenty seven year old social media influencer Peyton
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: Maybray began receiving hand delivered gifts to her doorstep. The
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: gifts were unsolicited and delivered by a man named Robert Bevers.
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: Oh wow, so same last name as Lannie Bever's.
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: His son, No, his son? What?
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: And Peyton Maybray had never met Robert Bevers, zero connection
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: to him, no idea how he came across her. Maybe
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: social media, maybe out in the world, not sure. There's
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: security footage of him at her door several times late
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: at night, with gifts and flowers, driving past her house
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: multiple times. He would sign handwritten cards to her as Romeo.
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: So this is like very recent. So there's home security cameras.
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: There's a lot of ways to track people. I'm guessing
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: she doesn't know who this is. Think you said that light, Yeah,
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: but she sees these gifts. She looks at her you know,
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: door cam, and is like, Okay, who's this guy?
• 29:06
  Speaker 2: Right?
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: And so she was able to with that security footage
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: and the messages that he had been sending her, she
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: was able to obtain a silvil protective order, a restraining
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: order that puts no contact rules into place. And he
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: appeals the protective order, trying to say that he never
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: threatened to harm or kill her and that this was
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: interesting because it's like, it is threatening by nature to
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: receive unwanted attention from a man that you don't know
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: who was showing up.
• 29:39
  Speaker 2: At your house.
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: And if you don't know her, why are you bothered
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: by the fact that you can't go be in her vicinity?
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: It shouldn't matter to you, Hannah.
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: This is my next bullet point.
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: Why would you care? Right mine? Melting No, It's yeah,
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: it's like that.
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: I'm like thinking, if someone files a restraining order against
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: me and I don't know them, I probably don't want
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: a restraining order on my record. But I'm probably just
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: gonna take a step back and be like, wait, did
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: I reach out to someone that I didn't mean to
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: reach out to. It's like, I don't even want to
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: say that he's like not well because I have no
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: evidence of that. It's just he was not someone that
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: she knew at all. He clearly had a desire to
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: be in contact with her in some way, and it
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: has to me many similar qualities of the case with
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: Lannie Jeene Bevers junior. Lannie made a lot of phone
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: calls to live on that were very threatening and very
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: demanding and you know, trying to like assert power over her.
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: And Maybury reported messages and emails from Robert Bever's that
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: were similar in nature. They were vile, they were racist,
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: they were you know, trying to assert power over her.
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: Like you will comply, you will do as I say.
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: March seventh, twenty five for the subject line I want
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: to hold and kiss you. April second, twenty twenty four,
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: subject line you are going to do what I tell
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: you to do? Like yeah, and just like Lonnie Bevers
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: Lonnie Geen Beverer's junior, because you said that you were racist.
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: I'm curious if that's a through line of the stories,
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: like what's the racial The news clip where I saw
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: Peyton Maybray talking about these emails. She didn't go into
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: detail about how the messages were racist, and I guess
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: for context, Peyton Maybray is white and so is Robert Bevers.
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: But she was horrified by it. He was just showing
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: that he's racist somehow in these Yeah, he was just
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: writing vile, racist messages to her. But she had nothing
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: to do about it. She was, you know, revolted by them. Yeah, okay, interesting, Yeah,
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: but I'm not sure what he said in the messages
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: on those headlines that I just saw them show. Yeah,
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: and he had also done this before. So his other
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: victims had previously included college classmates, a criminal defense attorney,
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: and the sister of someone he knew socially, and just
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: like Peyton Maybray, none of them were ever in a
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: relationship with him. It seems like he felt very entitled
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: to women, yeah, even when they expressed zero interest in him,
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: zero desire to speak with him. And one frustrating piece
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: of this is that when each of his previous offenses
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: came up and he was charged, he was charged with misdemeanors,
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: which allowed him to just get out and keep repeating
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: the same stocking behavior over and over again, and you know,
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: I have to wonder if that could just really empower
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: someone to think there are no consequences, although if your
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: father is in prison for it, I mean, look, there's
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: no excuse. And actually, yeah, well I was going to
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: ask about his father and you know what his relationship
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: with this is, if we know, it's just so interesting
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: that he's showing the same behavior in a lot of
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: ways as suppose his father. Yeah, so it was actually
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: I was watching a news clip from CBS Texas and
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: they are the ones that said, actually his father committed
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: these other rapes and is serving a life sentence. And
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: that's how I learned about the Lonnie gen Bevers junior case.
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: And then I went and looked into it. But yeah,
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: I don't know anything about their relationship. So Robert Bever's
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: when he was arrested on April twenty ninth of twenty
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: twenty four, which he'd been stalking Peyton may Bray since
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: I believe twenty twenty two. He was forty and twenty
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: twenty four when he was arrested. And you know, I
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: even did some digging into like, Okay, has there ever
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: been any sort of like genetic link or people predisposed
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: of this behavior, and it couldn't find anything that I
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: felt like was compelling enough to share. But yeah, it
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: does make you think it is bizarre. It's like why,
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: like why would he exhibit the same sort of attributes
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: and tendency as his father who he really just sounds
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: like he didn't spend a lot of time around at all. Yeah,
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: I mean it is so bizarre. I just couldn't believe it.
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: And yeah, so he was arrested by a US Marshal
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: Task Force on April twenty ninth, twenty twenty four, and
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: in October of twenty twenty five, he was found guilty
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: of stocking. At his sentencing, he was sentenced to twenty years,
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: so a landmark sentencing case for stalking. He also received
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: a ten thousand dollars fine.
• 34:36
  Speaker 2: Did he plead guilty?
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: I don't know if he had a jury trial or
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: if he played actually, but yeah, he had made threats
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: to not only Peyton Maybray, but to her family, which
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: also is reminiscent of Lanny Jen Bevers Junior and threatening
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: Lavon's daughter, and in one interview, Peyton described the stocking
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: is being pretty dehabilitating you know, And I think that's
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: the unseen harm of stalking, is that even in the
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: case where someone isn't physically injured by their stalker, it
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: can make everyday life very scary and it can really
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: shrink the world that you live in in order to
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: keep yourself safe.
• 35:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: So Robert Bever's will be eligible for parole I think
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: in less than five years. Okay, and that's something that
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: Peyton Maybey will have to think about, which feels really
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: sad and unfair, especially because he's a serial stalker.
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: I wonder if that played a role in his sentencing
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: of twenty years. Is this pattern of behavior it did
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: those women also testified? Okay, yeah, yeah, I mean that's
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: so wild. I'm so shocked that this is a father
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: and son which they should be entitled to do safely, totally,
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: and then you know, coming on the radar of people
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: who have ill intentions and feel some sort of agent
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: to disrupt their lives and terrorize them. Yeah, I mean,
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: just nuts. Because I was originally looking back into Peyton's
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: story and I was watching that news clip and they
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: were like, and actually, he's the son of this other
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: person who is in prison for the same kind of crime.
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: I looked into different studies by different psychologists about if
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: this tendency runs in families and didn't find anything that
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: made me feel like, oh, yeah, this is probably what
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: happened here.
• 36:30
  Speaker 2: So I don't know.
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: Is that just because it hasn't been studied enough?
• 36:33
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: I mean, like, how would you study it? I just
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: started thinking, like, how do you do that? Because stalking,
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: even generationally, the reporting on it has probably changed so much,
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: like how many people in the generation before us reported
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: it the way that our generation hopefully feels empowered to do. So. Yeah,
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: well that is my off record for today, but I
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: also have a recommendation great Girl on the Run The
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: Hunt for America's Most Wanted Woman. This is a docuseries
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: that I watched on Hulu. It's about a woman named
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: Sarah Joe Pender, who was convicted along with her boyfriend
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: of murdering their two roommates back in October of two thousand.
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: The series is a deep dive into her case and
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: her escape from prison. Oh yeah, so it's a true story,
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: but they made the doc so I'll let them tell
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: you about it. And Sarah Joe Pender speaks in the documentary,
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: which is I think why I thought it was just
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: really insightful. But yeah, I will say my takeaway from
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: this doc for anyone who watches it or what it
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: made me think about, is, without telling you the whole story,
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: she's convicted of this murder, and she believes that that
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: was wrong, that she shouldn't have been convicted of this
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: murder even though she had some involvement in the crime
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: as a whole, and a lot came out that to
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: me was like, Oh, yeah, she shouldn't be in for this,
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: you were kind of I was convinced. And of course
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: it's a documentary that she's participating in, so there's some
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: inherent bias there. But it made me think about how
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: it's always scary to think of someone being wrongfully convicted
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: of a crime. That is horrible to think about, but
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: I think it's easier for me to sort of reconcile
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: that sometimes our justice system does make mistakes and we
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: should be trying really really hard, we should be doing
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: everything in our power for that not to happen. But
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: I think I know that it does happen. And the
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: tragedy that sort of compounds this is that even when
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: evidence comes to light that says the conviction was wrong.
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: It is so hard to undo hard.
• 38:45
  Speaker 2: It is so hard.
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: It's like that look it right in the face and
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: be like, oh wow, there's this blaring reason that should
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: have never happened. And still it's like, well, they're already
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: in there, and that prosecutor still believes or whatever. And
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: it just all the time. I mean, it happens so often.
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: There'll be like evidence that someone did not commit a crime,
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: and still somehow they're not released from prison. Yeah, it's
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: very hard to reverse a conviction, even if there's very
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: compelling evidence that it was a wrongful conviction. It is
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: so freaking hard. It is so freaking hard, and there
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: are so many forces working to keep those in place
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: and not ruffle feathers and never admit maybe we got
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: it wrong.
• 39:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: And in the case of this docu series, I guess
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: I'll tell you a little bit is the prosecutor actually
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: did have a change. It changed his mind about some
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: of the evidence he presented that helped convict her. And
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: I thought, wow, like, good for that prosecutor. Yeah, good
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: on him for that. But it's like to me, that's
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: just as scary that Oh okay, we got it wrong,
• 39:59
  Speaker 1: but now we know got it wrong, and we're still
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: not going to do anything. Yeah. Yeah, And I'm speaking
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: about that more generally. I mean the crime that Sarah
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: Joe Pender was convicted of is it's a very horrific murder,
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: a double murder. And I wasn't there, and I don't
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: know what happened, but I'm saying, like, gently made you
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: think about it, made me think about that and how
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: devastating that would be if you were innocent, or if
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: you shouldn't have had the charges that you ended up
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: being convicted of. And to know, oh, I've managed to
• 40:31
  Speaker 1: get all of these great reasons in front of the
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: right people and I'm still here. Yeah. I've seen this
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: advertised to be on Hulu. Oh so you should watch it? Yeah,
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: I will. Thanks for the recommendation and for telling me
• 40:48
  Speaker 1: this wild, multi generational story. Yeah, thanks for listening. We'll
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: be back next week. If you have a story for us,
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: we would love to hear it. Our email is The
• 40:59
  Speaker 1: Knife at exactly rightmedia dot com, or you can follow
• 41:02
  Speaker 1: us on Instagram at the Knife podcast or a Blue
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: Sky at the Knife Podcast. This has been an Exactly
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: Right production, hosted and produced by me Hannah Smith and
• 41:10
  Speaker 1: me paysha Een. Our producers are Tom Bryfogel and Alexis Samarosi.
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: This episode was mixed by Tom Bryfogel. Our associate producer
• 41:18
  Speaker 1: is Christina Chamberlain.
• 41:19
  Speaker 2: Our theme music is by Birds in the Airport.
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: Artwork five and SA Lilac. Executive produced by Karen Kilgareff,
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: Georgia Hardstark and Danielle Kramer.