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How acupuncture helps you get pregnant? · The Holistic Fertility Show

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: You know, usually when we talk about a medical diagnosis, um there's this expectation of like engineering level precision.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, for sure.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_01: Like you break your arm, the x-ray shows that jagged white line, and the doctor just points to the screen and says, well, there's the problem.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_00: It's entirely binary, broken or not broken.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_00: You just, you know, diagnose the mechanical failure, apply the standard fix, and move on.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_01: But step into the world of fertility and reproductive health, and well, that x-ray machine essentially shatters.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_01: The precision completely vanishes.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_00: It really does.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_01: Suddenly you're looking at a diagnostic landscape that is just incredibly murky.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_01: The variables cascade into each other, the emotional toll is massive, and you know, trying to navigate the sheer volume of conflicting advice.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_00: The late-night forum reading.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, the endless deep dives on forums, the protocol options, it can really feel like you're drowning.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_00: It is the absolute definition of diagnostic muddy waters.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_00: And I think for so many people, that lack of binary clarity, like the absence of a simple guaranteed do this and x will happen equation, is the most isolating part of the entire process.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you are left managing this wildly complex biological system without a clear instruction manual.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_01: Which is exactly why today, in this deep dive, we're looking at a clinical model that has spent nearly three decades trying to bring that engineering level precision into those murky waters.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_00: It's a really unique approach.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_01: We are analyzing the methodology of the Berkeley Center for Reproductive Wellness.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_01: And what's fascinating right out of the gate is that they aren't attempting to solve this by like inventing a new synthetic wonder drug.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_01: They are actually taking ancient complementary therapeutic practices and applying them with rigorous, systematic precision to modern reproductive challenges.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_00: And we really have to look at their timeline here because it provides crucial context for their whole methodology.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_00: The Berkeley Center has been operating in New York City for 28 years.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_01: Wow, 28 years.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_00: They actually hold the title of the first complementary reproductive medicine center in America.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_01: That's huge.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_00: It is, because this means they were establishing these protocols back in the late 1990s, like way before terms like integrative wellness were trending on social media.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_01: There was no blueprint for this.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_00: They didn't have a template to follow.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_00: They had to actively build the bridge between the empirical, highly clinical world of a major medical help like New York and the holistic philosophies of traditional care.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_01: And before we even get into their physical interventions, there's this foundational shift in their model that completely redefines the patient.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_01: Because when most people hear fertility clinic, I mean the cultural default is to picture a waiting room full of women, right?
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_00: Almost entirely.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_01: But the Berkeley Center explicitly structures their 28-year methodology around treating both women and men.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, let's unpack this because that feels like a huge distinction.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_00: It's a vital biological correction.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_00: Honestly, framing fertility as a purely female challenge ignores, well, half the cellular material required for conception.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_01: It takes two.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_00: It's a dual partner equation.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_00: By actively integrating male treatment into their core model, they are addressing the shared variable that ultimately dictates success or failure, which is baseline cellular health.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_01: So if cellular health is the bottleneck for both partners, how are they actually treating it?
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_01: The source material outlines two primary therapies.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_01: And the first one is a physical intervention, acupuncture.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_01: And this is where I need you to help me bridge a major biological gap because their claims state that using fine, gentle needles at specific points can improve blood flow to the uterus and ovaries and support egg quality, build a receptive uterine lining and improve sperm quality.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_01: Now, I understand that blood flow is important, but I struggle to see the causality here.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_01: Think of it like an intricate irrigation system for a farm.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_01: You're opening up specific channels to make sure the water gets exactly where it needs to go.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_01: But how does sticking a needle in your arm or leg actually force those specific changes in the reproductive organs?
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_00: It's a completely necessary question because without understanding the neurology, it sounds um almost mystical.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_01: Kind of like magic, yeah.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_00: But it's actually a highly mechanical hack of the nervous system.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_00: When a practitioner inserts those fine needles, they are creating deliberate microscopic traumas in the tissue.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_01: Microtraumas.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_00: And the central nervous system immediately detects these microtraumas and responds by flooding that specific local area with blood, oxygen, and endorphins.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_01: So it's essentially resetting a tripped circuit breaker in the nervous system to force local blood vessels to dilate.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that is an excellent way to visualize it, yeah.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_00: You're manually overriding the body's vascular regulation.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_00: Because fertility struggles cause chronic stress, right?
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_00: Which traps the body in a sympathetic fight or flight state.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_00: And in that state, blood vessels actually constrict.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_00: Acupuncture forces a shift to the parasympathetic rest and digest state.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_00: So if a practitioner targets specific neurological pathways linked to the pelvic floor, they are artificially dilating those vessels and hyper-oxygenating the uterus and the ovaries.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_01: And that vasodilation brings us directly to their second claim, which is supporting healthy egg quality.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_01: Because if you hyper-oxygenate the ovaries, you're obviously giving the eggs a better environment.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_01: But is it just about a nice environment or is there a structural, like cellular change happening?
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_00: It's about metabolic energy.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_00: Cellular health requires energy and the mitochondria, the microscopic powerhouses inside our cells, they require oxygen to produce that energy.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_01: That makes sense.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_00: As eggs mature, especially when dealing with factors like maternal age, those mitochondria can become sluggish.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_00: They just don't have the energy to divide flawlessly.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I see.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_00: So by forcing a constant, nutrient-rich, hyper-oxygenated blood supply to the ovaries, you are giving those cellular powerhouses the raw metabolic fuel they need to mature properly.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_01: Wait, so it also acts as a biological waste management system.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_01: Like if you are increasing the vascular flow in and out, you aren't just bringing in oxygen.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_01: You're flushing out the cellular waste and oxidative stress that degrades egg quality over time.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_00: You are optimizing the microenvironment at a structural level.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_00: What's fascinating here is how that exact same vascular response applies to their next target, which is the uterine lining.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_01: They specifically mention the lining.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_00: And the Burgling Sanders model doesn't just claim to thicken the lining, they specifically use the word receptive.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_00: They aim to build a strong receptive uterine lining.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_01: which is a crucial distinction, isn't it?
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_01: Because a uterine lining can be incredibly thick, but still structurally compromised, right?
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_00: Thickness is just a measurement.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_00: Receptivity is a biological state.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, that's a good way to put it.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_00: Receptivity refers to the structural integrity and the immune environment of that tissue.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_00: It needs to be biologically prepared to accept and nurture an embryo without attacking it.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_01: Without attacking it, wow.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_00: The localized blood flow we just discussed regulates the immune response in the uterus, reducing hidden subclinical inflammation that might otherwise cause the body to reject an implantation.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_01: And applying that same mechanistic logic to the male side with sperm quality, it's the exact same requirement, right?
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_00: It really is.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_01: Because sperm require massive amounts of mitochondrial energy for motility, and their development requires a highly regulated, low inflammation environment.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_01: So the vasodilation and immune regulation triggered by that nervous system response support the exact same cellular goals for men.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_00: It is a physiological optimization of the body's core resources.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_00: And the Berkeley model emphasizes that this structural reinforcement is fundamental regardless of the method of conception.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_00: It applies whether you are trying to conceive naturally or if you're in the middle of a highly medicated IVF cycle.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_00: The baseline cellular health determines the ceiling for success in either scenario.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_01: So acupuncture is this external physical intervention hacking the nervous system to force an environmental change.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_01: But their methodology pairs this with a highly complex internal intervention, which is custom herbal medicine.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, herbs are the second pillar.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_01: And I really want to challenge our cultural perception of this because I think a lot of people hear herbal medicine and they immediately picture like walking down the supplement aisle at the grocery store, grabbing a generic bottle labeled fertility support, and just crossing their fingers.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_00: That supplement aisle mentality is built on a one-size-fits-all assumption.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_00: And the Berkeley approach is explicitly built on the clinical reality that one size fits all is functionally useless for complex reproductive issues.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_01: Here's where it gets really interesting.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_01: Because their herbal medicine isn't an off-the-rack multivitamin.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_01: This is a bespoke suit tailored to your exact measurements.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_00: I love that analogy.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_01: it's more like a real-time software patch.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_01: Their model lists four distinct clinical variables they use to calculate a specific botanical formula for a specific patient.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_00: Four variables, yes.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_01: And the first variable they factor in is the patient cycle.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_01: So they are mapping the biochemistry of the herbs to the specific hormonal phase a woman is in, like follicular, ovulatory, or luteal.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_00: Because the body's executing entirely different biological functions in each of those phases.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_01: Makes sense.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_00: You wouldn't use a botanical compound designed to stimulate estrogen production during the luteal phase, right?
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_00: Because that phase requires absolute progesterone dominance to sustain a pregnancy.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_01: And then the second variable is the actual diagnosis, and this is where the specificity really matters.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_01: Let's say two people walk into the clinic.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_01: One has diminished ovarian reserve, and the other has unexplained infertility.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_00: Two very different situations.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_01: They present with the same ultimate challenge, they aren't getting pregnant.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_01: But the internal biological bottleneck is entirely different.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_00: Fundamentally different.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_00: Think about diminished ovarian reserve.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_00: That is largely an issue of quantity and cellular aging.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_01: It's about the eggs that are left.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_00: So the clinical strategy there needs to focus on maximizing the metabolic energy of the remaining follicles, much like we discussed with the mitochondrial support.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_00: Unexplained infertility, however, is very often a microenvironmental issue.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_01: Meaning what exactly?
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_00: It could be slight autoimmune factors, hidden inflammation, or poor vascularization.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_00: You would never use the same biochemical tools to treat cellular aging that you would use to treat systemic inflammation.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_01: That would make no sense.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_00: Which brings us to the third variable they integrate, which is lab results.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_00: So they aren't just relying on intuition or guesswork.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_00: They're integrating hard, empirical Western data, hormone panels, blood work, thyroid numbers, into the design of the Eastern botanical formula.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_01: It's a direct translation of diagnostics.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_00: If a lab result shows an elevated follicle stimulating hormone level or a specific thyroid antibody, a practitioner trained in this integrated model knows which specific whole plant botanical compounds have been shown to modulate those precise markers.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_01: Wow, they are targeting the blood work with biochemistry.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_00: Precisely.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_01: And then you get to the fourth variable, which is exactly where the patient is in their treatment.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_01: And when you combine the cycle phase, the core diagnosis, the blood work, and the treatment stage, you hit this concept that completely shifted how I view this entire field.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_00: The dynamic aspect.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_01: The Berkeley model states that as your body changes, your formula changes with it.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_00: This is the true departure from conventional care.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_01: Wait, just think about the mechanics of what that actually means.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_01: If the acupuncture works, and if last month's herbal software patch worked, your baseline physiology has improved.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_01: Your blood flow is better, your inflammation is lower, which means last month's herbal formula is now biochemically obsolete for this month's body.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly, your body's in a new state.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_01: Conventional medicine gives you a static six-month prescription and sends you home.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_01: But the Berkeley approach is treating the human body as a constantly moving target.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_00: It's a profoundly dynamic model of care.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_00: The practitioner is engaged in an active, ongoing biochemical dialogue with the patient's physiology.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_01: A dialogue, yeah.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_00: They aren't trying to force the body into submission with a static generic dose.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_00: They are constantly adjusting the dials to maintain an evolving state of balance as the body heals.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_01: But I have to ask, um, how does that fluidity, that constant biochemical adjustment survive contact with the modern fertility industry?
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_00: That is the big question.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_01: Because IVF and IUI protocols are the absolute definition of rigid.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_01: They are down to the milligram, highly regimented scientific processes.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_01: They literally shut down the body's natural hormone production to take over manually.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_00: They do.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_00: It's a very controlled takeover.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_01: So how does a constantly shifting dynamic herbal formula integrate into the rigid synthetic framework of an IVF cycle without causing massive friction?
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_00: That is the essential tension of integrative medicine.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_00: And it's why many conventional endocrinologists are historically wary of outside supplements.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_01: They tell you to stop taking everything.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_00: But the Berkeley Center explicitly designed their model to address this.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_00: They state that their care fits comfortably alongside IUI and IVF treatments.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_00: If we connect this to the bigger picture, it changes the whole dynamic.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_01: And they achieve that lack of friction through a very strict operational rule.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_01: The model dictates that every single herb is chosen with the patient's full clinical picture in mind, explicitly including any medications or IVF protocols they are currently following.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_00: Which requires a staggering level of dual literacy from the practitioner.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_01: Dual literacy, I like that phrase.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_00: To safely and effectively prescribe an herb alongside a synthetic uh IVF hormone, say an ovulation induction medication or a trigger shot.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_00: The practitioner must understand the exact pharmacokinetic pathway of the Western medication and the precise biochemical mechanism of the eastern herb.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_01: So they aren't fighting the conventional doctor's hostile takeover of the endocrine system.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_01: They are actively mapping their botanical compounds to synergize with it.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_01: Or at the very least, ensuring there are absolutely zero contraindications while the synthetic hormones do the heavy lifting.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_00: It's an architectural reinforcement of the IVF process.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_00: The synthetic medications manage the macro level follicle growth, while the acupuncture and herbs manage the microenvironment.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_01: Handling the details.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_00: Mitigating side effects, regulating localized inflammation, and optimizing tissue receptivity.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_01: And that level of comprehensive, dual-layered support, it speaks directly to the emotional reality of the people this clinic treats.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_00: It really does.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_01: Because when you look at their clinical focus, they specifically design this care for patients at three distinct stages: people who are just beginning their journey, people actively preparing for IVF, and people who have faced disappointment along the way.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_00: That acknowledgment of disappointment is vital.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_00: Because reproductive medicine isn't just a cellular experiment, it is a brutal test of psychological and physical endurance.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_00: It really is.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_00: Facing disappointment in this arena means enduring intense cycles of hormonal hope followed by profound grief.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_00: By mapping these highly responsive, dynamic treatments to exactly where a patient is emotionally and procedurally, they are providing a framework of continuous adaptive support.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_01: And the ultimate goal of all that adaptation, the acupuncture manually hacking the nervous system, the dynamic herbal software patches updating in real time, the seamless integration with IVF medications, it all boils down to one core biological imperative.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_00: And what's that?
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_01: Bringing the body into balance.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_00: And balance in this context isn't a vague wellness buzzword.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_01: Not at all.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_00: It is physiological homeostasis.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_00: It's the re-establishment of equilibrium at a cellular level.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_01: A functional mechanical balance that supports regular cycles, generates metabolically healthier eggs and sperm, and creates the strongest possible localized foundation for implantation and pregnancy.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_01: It's making sure the biological environment is optimized to do exactly what it is designed to do, whether it's happening naturally or being facilitated by a specialist in a lab.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_00: It is a comprehensive overhaul of the reproductive ecosystem.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_00: They are structurally reinforcing the foundation through localized vascular control and dynamically managing the internal biochemistry through customized botanicals, all while operating seamlessly within the framework of modern high-tech medical interventions.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_01: So what does this actually mean for you, our listener?
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_01: If you are navigating the space, whether you're just starting to research your options, if you are knee-deep in hormone injections for IVF prep, or if you're trying to figure out your next steps after a crushing setback, the major takeaway here is that the diagnostic landscape doesn't have to be a choice between two extremes.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't have to be either or.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_01: You don't have to choose between the deep, highly individualized care of complementary medicine and the clinical empirical precision of the modern Western science.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_01: The Berkeley Center's methodology, developed over 28 years in New York City, proves that these two worlds can actually amplify each other.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_01: And for anyone looking to explore the specific model of integrated care, their full methodology is available at www.berkleycenter.com.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_00: It truly is a masterclass in clinical synthesis.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_00: And honestly, looking at the sheer logic of their dynamic methodology, it leaves me with a lingering thought that extends far beyond the realm of reproductive health.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_01: Oh yeah?
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_01: What's that?
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_00: Well, if a highly targeted neurological intervention like acupuncture and a constantly adapting herbal formula can integrate so seamlessly alongside the incredibly strict, heavily medicated protocols of IVF, what other areas of modern healthcare might benefit from completely abandoning the static one-size-fits-all prescription model to truly embrace this kind of dynamic, real-time biochemical balance?
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_01: Now that is a fascinating question to chew on.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_01: And it perfectly highlights why we love doing these deep dives.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_01: The implications of a good idea always ripple outward.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much for exploring this with us today.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_01: Keep questioning, keep learning, and we will catch you on the next one.