Latest / WOC and Allies: Business and Career Realtalk with Elaine Lou Cartas / 20. Unlearning Being Performative with Paula Shepherd

Transcript

20. Unlearning Being Performative with Paula Shepherd · WOC and Allies: Business and Career Realtalk with Elaine Lou Cartas

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: I have a confession.
• 0:02
  SPEAKER_00: I used to do the most.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_00: Keeping up with being on everywhere in my business.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_00: I did free monthly workshops.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_00: I did Facebook lives every day for a year, including in the holidays.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_00: And I used to do 50 calls a week.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_00: These are facts.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, I used to do all of this and it burned me out.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_00: And legacy maker, I am sharing this mistake because I don't want you to repeat my mistakes.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_00: And the good news for both you and me is that I am constantly reflecting and aware.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_00: And I actually asked like a really introspective question in the past two years.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_00: Where was all of this coming from?
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_00: All this performative marketing.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_00: And I thought it was, oh, I'm going to blame everyone in the online business world.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_00: It's actually not.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_00: We were taught doing performative marketing before the social media era.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_00: For example, studying a lot to get those straight A's, going to school every day for perfect attendance, so you can get that perfect attendance award and attend that pizza party.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_00: And getting that six-figure salary in your 20s by staying and working around the clock.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_00: And all those examples I was just sharing, those were me, obviously.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_00: Those are examples of what I used to do when I was a kid.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_00: And what happened for me?
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_00: And maybe for you.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_00: So that when we started our own business, we did the same.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_00: We had to be everywhere, do everything to get clients.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_00: And I had to unlearn doing a lot of this performative marketing.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_00: Because I'm in my 30s now and I am not as young in my 20s.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm saying that because it's been a gift being older, being more aware that I can't do all the things.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_00: And what's more important to me than working and doing is having a sustainable life and career.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_00: I'm putting life first.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_00: So in this episode, I am joined by my friend Paula Shepard, who is a certified and credential business communication coach, leadership mentor, and host of the confidence sessions.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_00: All right, let's drop the beat.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_00: And welcome to the Call Your Dreams podcast, where we have conscious conversations to help you create a business or career that is sustainable, abundant, and equitable to the lifestyle you deserve.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_00: Because our ancestors sacrificed so much so we could have this life of choice.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_00: Now, grab your coffee, tea, andor boba, and let's call your dreams too.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_00: Create your legacy.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_00: And we're gonna do something fun today.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_00: We're kind of doing like a podcast slop.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_00: So I have my friend Paula Shepard here too.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_00: Paula, you want to introduce yourself?
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my gosh.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_01: I am so excited to be here.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_01: I'm the way that we met is amazing, and I can't wait to get into this conversation.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_01: But um, my name is Paula Shepherd, and I help mainly women, but a few really cool men um start and reinvigorate their businesses.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_01: And they're all value-driven, purpose-driven businesses and stemmed through bold communication, which is really important to me, standing up for what is important to you, being able to share that and doing it in a way that puts the client first as a human being and not as a dollar sign.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_00: And you said it so perfectly, like bold communication, really treating people like humans.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_00: And I think this is why both of us get along so well.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_00: For those that are new to me, I'm Elaine Cardis, I'm a business and care coach for Mode of Color and Allies, and I help my clients build a sustainable and equitable business and life.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_00: And the topic of today's episode, and it may change, but we're gonna have a discussion here, is talking about performative marketing.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_00: You know, there's this like tug of war pressure where we feel like we need to be on.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_00: But for both Paula and I, both of our businesses actually rely on referrals.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_00: And it's a huge part of our business.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_00: And also, we both didn't just become coaches right after we graduated from college.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_00: I think a superpower that we both have, and I'm pretty sure you agree with me, is we've had life experiences prior.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_00: We had to navigate through all of that and learn how to do it and then apply it within our own business.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_00: But we were just talking, Paula, like right before we hit record.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_00: You know, why do you think there is this need to be on all the time to do this performative marketing?
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_00: Because it also shows up in our prior careers, like when we had nine to five jobs.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_01: So I can speak from my own experience first and foremost, which I think is probably the most prominent, is I have two decades of corporate experience.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_01: And in that time, once a year, we are greeted and our raises dependent upon our performance, right?
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_01: So the people who showed up the earliest, stayed the latest, worked when they got home when working from home became a thing.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_01: The people that would raise their hands for things that they didn't get paid for on top of the things that they were already doing.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_01: So it was this desire of always make sure that you're raising your hand for everything, making sure that you're doing all the things.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_01: And then your reward will be more money, more clout, more visibility internally inside the company.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_01: And typically those were the people that were the go-getters, the high performers, the ones that despite burning out or being on the verge of burnout, would still smile and volunteer for even more just so that they could get the promotion and essentially win more of what they already had for a little bit more money.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_01: So, what we are doing, at least what I initially did, was come into my business having to detach myself and decondition from this idea and ideal, that the more I did, the more successful I would be, versus the the more I do the things that move the needle forward for me, the more successful I will be and the less likely I will be to burn out, if that makes sense.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that other people that I've come into contact with, mainly women that have this same background where they've been in a professional job for a while, are doing the thing that they've been taught to do through the process that they've been taught to do it.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_01: And that has perpetuated the ideal of I must be on.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_01: I can't take a break, I can't take a nap, I can't spend time with my kids, I can't end my day at three o'clock.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_01: I can't start my workday at 10.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_01: Going out to take a walk isn't work.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_01: And now we're starting to change the narrative, at least in the entrepreneurship, around what does it look like to work?
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_01: What does it look like to succeed?
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_01: What is the definition of that?
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_01: And how can I live it out and hit my own personal targets while keeping my blinders on and not paying attention to or worrying about what anyone else is doing, simply just cheering them on.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_00: And as a business owner, I love what you said earlier about the needle moving activities, right?
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_00: Or other people say the money-making activities, but we are given 24 hours and days, seven days a week, where it is important.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know how often you do it.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_00: And I've shared this in my own podcast.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_00: Like I look at my numbers every single week.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm not just talking bank account, I'm talking about where are my leads coming in, where are they converting, how often.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_00: And when you know that, you know where to focus on and also realize that, oh, these things are not working.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe I should let that go and focus on the things that are working.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_00: There's significance and importance of looking under the hood of what's working and it's not, and also unlearning all of it.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't know how old you are, Paula, but I'm 34.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_00: I think we talked about this when we first connected last week, where once you start getting older, it's not just the work that is important.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_00: It's actually like having that holistic life, right?
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_00: Being present with your kids, even if it's just being present for yourself.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_00: There's no shame in that.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_00: And relearning what you're saying early, not just what success is, but what happiness is.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_00: So, what tips or advice would you have to others in terms of unlearning what we were taught?
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_00: And it's not even from work, but even from school, right?
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_00: Wow, you were the fastest runner.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_00: This person got straight A's.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_00: You get like you're Valley Victorian, you got the perfect tits, you get this award and pizza party.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_00: How do we unlearn decades of conditioning from that?
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_01: You're talking about labels, right?
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_01: Like that's what we're talking about generally, is we're talking about labels.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_01: And before we say that, I will say I am 42 and I will be 43 in August, and I am owning every single year.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_01: Because I didn't start this business until I turned 40.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_01: That's when I left my corporate job when I was 40, uh, which is really uncomfortable and is a whole other story.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_01: But what tips would I have for people?
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_01: Well, we can't change what we don't notice.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_01: So the first step would be truly to get curious, to pay attention instead of living on autopilot about what it is that you're actually doing, right?
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_01: So if you, for instance, feel really overwhelmed and feel this urgency to have to be on all the time.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_01: And an example of what it looks like to be on all the time is I get up in the morning, I sit down at the computer, I have to be on social media, but then I'm also getting on all these calls, and then I have to do this thing over here, and I'm really, really, really tired, but I really know that I should do this thing over here.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_01: And we're really we're saying should all the time.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_01: I should do this, I need to do this, but without really understanding the why behind it.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_01: So once you can get curious about what it is that you're doing, it's what doesn't feel good.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_01: What doesn't feel good and why?
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_01: Those are the first steps, right?
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_01: Because we can't change what we don't know.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_01: It's I mean, we can, but we're not going to be successful.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if you've had that experience, Elaine, where you've maybe tried to change something without really recognizing what it was in the first place that you need it to change.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_01: And so we're like turning the dials and pulling the levers on things that have nothing to do with the thing at all.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_00: Well, and that first step that you're talking about is awareness, right?
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_00: Having the awareness of I don't like doing this.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes it's not necessarily deleting it.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_00: Like I'll give it an example.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I don't love bookkeeping or have or doing my taxes.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_00: So that's something I delegate to.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_00: It is important, but that's not something that brings me joy.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um, or second, it's like what I mean, I just did this recently.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_00: I've shared it in this podcast episode getting rid of my mastermind.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_00: I talked about that at one podcast episode and just simplifying my business because I felt so stretched out.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_00: And to be honest, it was performative, right?
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_00: Where I'm like, oh, I think I could do all the things.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_00: Cause if everyone could do all the things, what it seems like on social media that you they can, then I can do it too.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_00: But we've heard this from other people.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_00: Social media is a highlight reel.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_00: And it was interesting.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_00: I was just talking to a new client earlier today, and they're like, I need help doing like social media marketing.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_00: Like, okay, well, before we even look at that, can we need to look under the hood of what's even working in your business?
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_00: We can't make a plan without understanding where you're at right now, what is working and not just the strategy of it, but also do you feel good doing all this stuff?
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_00: Like it was interesting.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_00: Like, do you really enjoy posting on Instagram?
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_00: No, I love doing emails.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_00: So why don't we focus on the emails?
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's a balance of what strategically works for you as well as what brings you joy.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_01: But I think there's a lot of pressure for us to when you're looking at online, right?
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_01: When we're running an online business, when we have the reach globally that we do, which is the benefit of social media, I would say.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_01: I wouldn't have any of the clients that I have internationally if I didn't have access to social media.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_01: However, I will caveat that by saying those were all relationships that I created and nurtured.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_01: This wasn't like bumper cars where we were bumping into each other and connecting and thanks for reaching out.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_01: And then I was collecting friends on my Facebook feed or collecting followers on Instagram.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_01: I really want to have a conversation.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_01: And if I started the conversation on social media in DMs in some capacity, and I was met with a sales conversation right away, or someone that wasn't interested in knowing me as a person because it wasn't going to result in an instant sale, then I I let go of that person immediately.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_01: But I do see a lot of folks online that are trying to do too many things.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_01: And and I I let's let's be really clear here.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_01: I can say that because I was one of those people.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_01: So was I.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I'm not here to, I'm not, I'm not here to slam anybody.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_01: I really want to help people avoid the potholes that I've already stepped in.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_01: And I was trying to do Instagram, and I never even really understood Instagram.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_01: I literally was like, I am too old.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_01: I don't get Instagram.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_01: This my people are not here.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_01: I don't get it.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't want to do Facebook story or Instagram stories, and then they started Facebook stories, and then I was like, but now I have to be on LinkedIn too, and I have to be in all these places, and it is exhausting.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_01: And what we don't typically see are some of the people that we admire that maybe have already made it to a particular income and profit level have a team in the background supporting them.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_01: So they're the face of the personal brand, but they're not telling you, yeah, this is really easy and you can do this too, and you can run this workshop or you could do this thing over here, and not sharing how many people does it take for that to be a success and create X amount during that launch or that conversion event.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_01: So being really curious, I started asking questions and telling people to advocate for themselves.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so when somebody says that they made X amount of money by doing all of these things or on this one platform, no, I'm a little on a tangent here, but I think it's important.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_01: I've encouraged them, ask them, do you mean revenue?
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_01: Or are you talking about your gross revenue?
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_01: Is this after expenses?
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_01: Like, give me, give me something to work with here.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it's important for us to do that to normalize the fact that most businesses do not start off on every single platform and going to all the networking events and talking to all the people and being all the things, the bookkeeper, the marketing person, the every everything, and then get to do the thing that you want to do because that's the prize that you get for doing all of the other work is getting to do the things that you want.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_01: So be really clear when you're buying into something or you're commenting on something or you're enamored by someone online about what it has taken for them to get that result before you compare yourself to them.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, that is a great question, right?
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_00: Because so often we just see like, okay, that's the revenue, but what's the profit margin?
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_00: Or what is the team behind it?
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_00: And maybe not even the strategy, but like I even share openly, like, hey, I had to go through my own healing, going to therapy or whatever is needed to get to this next level.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_00: So I appreciate you being candid about that.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_00: And also you shared earlier about building those relationships online because it's interesting.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_00: I don't have a huge following on my email list or any social media, but how I build those relationships is through the DMs.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_00: But also to say it's not one of those DMs that we all get probably every single day of like, hey, I could help you grow your following, pay me X amount, but actually like listening and hearing and also not being attached to this has to be a sale.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_00: And I also want to congratulate you for starting a business at 40 because it's interesting.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_00: I've been seeing more clients, like new clients coming in in their 30s to 50s.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_00: And I also remind them you have something that a lot of people don't have who are just starting a business in their 20s.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_00: You have relationships and real experience.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_00: And it's easy to remember, oh, all the people skills that I learned in the corporate world of how to connect to build relationships is applied to even having your own business, regardless of what platform.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_00: Because it's interesting, like, well, how do you do Instagram, Facebook, or LinkedIn?
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_00: And I share with them.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_00: Well, they're all just different ways to communicate.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_00: It's like sending an email, a call or text.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_00: It's all the same thing.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_00: Are you asking questions and are you listening?
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_00: Or are you talking too much and you're not really listening?
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_00: Then that's a problem.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my gosh, you just hit the nail on the head.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_01: That's exactly what it is.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_01: There are so many people.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_01: I think about the beginning of the pandemic, where I first got into my online business, and I remember everybody had a Facebook group.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_01: Everybody was in there.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_01: People, it was dumpster fires left and right.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_01: Everybody's in there trying to shout over one another.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_01: And I just showed up and listened and served and met people.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_01: And I mean, there are some really gigantic Facebook groups run by very prominent people that I would just meet these people and have a conversation for nothing, no other reason than to just get to know them because I don't know if they're going to be a good fit for me.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_01: I don't approach anybody as a sale.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_01: I just go, this is a person, and how can I support them?
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_01: And when I did that, oh my gosh, I mean, magical things would happen.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_01: And all of a sudden they felt seen and heard and safe and were able to be brave and vulnerable.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_01: And many of them came to work with me as a result.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_01: Now, that doesn't happen all the time, but I'm saying that because I I agree with you that we are looking at social media as a going back to the performative thing, as a way to go, look at me.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_01: Aren't I pretty?
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_01: Aren't I great?
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_01: Aren't I special enough?
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_01: Aren't I this?
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_01: Instead of just saying our message, we're trying to get the words right through all of the copy.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_01: And often just having a simple conversation with somebody gets all of that across.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_01: So you don't reach the masses, but if you want to serve less people in more meaningful ways, then here's the way to do it.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's why I gravitated more toward those conversations.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_01: It doesn't work for everybody, right?
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_01: Like if you're afraid to have a conversation, you probably just shouldn't have a business in the first place.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_01: But I love referrals.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_01: I love when people send people my way.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_01: I love when they think of me.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_01: And here's the thing is I don't wait for them to do that.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_01: I'm always doing that on the other side too.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_01: And I would love to know, Elaine, because you you said you have, I know that you do a lot of referrals in your business and you're not a ton on social media and you're thriving in your business.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_01: So when like when was the tipping point where you realized I don't need to do all of this other stuff?
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_01: Because I have people coming to me in other ways that have absolutely nothing to do with me posting a selfie of myself or pretty brand photo on social media.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_00: That was a lot last year.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_00: So in 2020, I know when you and I talked before, like my business doubled.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, oh my gosh, right?
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_00: The pandemic just started, but my business grew similar to you.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_00: And it was like catching up and doing all these things, not just for me, but my team, where I'm like, I was burnt out.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_00: Like I couldn't possibly do all of it.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_00: It wasn't sustainable.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_00: Like I didn't like how I was as a girlfriend, as a daughter, as a friend or family member.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_00: Like when you start seeing how work could affect your personal relationships, that that's when you just should be mindful of what things need to shift and change.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_00: Because you're let's not have a codependent relationship with our businesses.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_00: That's what I share with my clients all the time.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_00: It's really important to understand that you're a separate entity from your business.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_00: But that's when I realized, like, oh, wait, let me really look at my numbers.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, it's referrals.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_00: And also, it is such a big compliment when it's referrals because that means you're doing something right.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_00: And coming from the nonprofit sector where we talk about donor retention.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_00: So in this case, in a business, it would be client retention.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_00: We always talked about donor retention.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_00: How do we make sure we continue having donors?
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_00: It's interesting, no one really talks about that here.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, how do we make sure we continue retaining our clients?
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_00: Or if, or if you have a program or service where it's not real, you can't really give a retention, then the question is how can you have those same clients who leave refer you?
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_00: And I just started asking those questions, building relationships.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_00: And also for my mental and emotional health, like I thrive when I just connect with people.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_00: And I love what you said earlier.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: Earlier, like less people in a more meaningful way.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_00: And that's that is a conscious decision both myself and Paula has made in our own business.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_00: Like we want to serve less, but more meaningful.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_00: And I mean, you could tell me what you think, but I feel like there is this trend, which is why there's clients attracted to both of us where they want to be seen, heard, and feel safe because they've been so burned being in other programs where maybe it was a course or digital program, and they realize actually, I want human contact.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_00: I want to connect with someone.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and connect with somebody that's here's my caveat there is there can be connection when someone sells you, and there's no wrong way.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_01: Uh everyone that's listening, I want to make sure, like I am I'm not trying to throw anybody under the bus or say this way, it doesn't work.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_01: I am saying personally, I decided a long time ago that I do not want to be in a program that requires me to be in another Facebook community.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_01: So if the program exists, it needs to have its own platform, it needs to be in Slack, it has to be a separate app, it has to be a something that doesn't require me to get on Facebook to access it.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_01: Because there are way too many distractions.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_01: I trust myself, but I also know that I don't want to have to post something there and hope that someone else sees it because I know the way that it works.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_01: So that's why I decided, okay, well, if I don't like that, who else doesn't enjoy that experience?
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_01: Who else would prefer to show up in a way where we can interact via video, where we can see each other in a more human way, where we can really communicate?
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_01: And this goes deep, right?
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_01: Because this is talking about people that, you know, are, you know, my daughter has intellectual disabilities, people that have are autistic, so neurodivergent, just people who in general learn differently or process differently.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a verbal processor.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_01: How can we create a space that allows for all of those people?
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_01: So I decided a long time ago that I did not enjoy showing up in a space like that.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_01: And I refuse to be in any program that participates in that.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_01: What does that mean?
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_01: That means that I'm not in the sea of people.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_01: It means I'm not going to be part of a program that has 50, 100, 200, 5,000 people in it.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_01: Now, have I bought into those programs before?
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_01: But you know what I've done?
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_01: I've silenced the Facebook community because it became way too overwhelming.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_01: It was too hard for me to have relationships to that depth.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_00: And just to validate for you, Paula, I actually made that decision earlier this year because I did have a Facebook group for my inner circle clients.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm like, I don't even like going on Facebook.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_00: No one's really responding.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_00: So that that goes back to what Paula and I were talking about earlier in this episode, like just staying aware of what's working, what's not working.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_00: And not necessarily in terms of getting clients, but even your own client management and client service.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, I'm just gonna delete it.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_00: And we're actually starting to implement using Slack instead because it's purely messaging, right?
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_00: It's not a social media platform.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_00: And just like what you were sharing, there's no right or wrong.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_00: This is intentionally what both Paula and I have chosen to do, but I'm also mindful of even understanding my clients because I've had a number of clients who recently found out and diagnosed as ADD and ADHD.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_00: So if I know that, then I need to make sure I'm creating a space where it's easy for them to communicate and digest information.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_01: Ding ding ding.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_01: That's it right there.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_01: And it's very difficult to do that because you can't, like an email where you can have it go to a specific folder and you know, all right, if that person communicates via email, I know that I can set up a rule to go immediately there.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_01: You can't do that when you're accessing Facebook.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_01: And so you wind up seeing this sea of notifications.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_01: And if you aren't a person that is able to just go, I'm going on here to click on this thing, suddenly you're down the rabbit hole and you are three hours deep on social media scrolling.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_01: And that hasn't done anything, one, to enrich your business, but furthermore, to enrich your life.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_01: Because how much more of that time could you have spent in your own personal self-care or you know, taking a walk outside, spending time with your family?
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's why it's so important to me to really build my business around my life and not the other way around.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_01: Now, kind of going full circle back to where we started.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_01: How do you decondition from this mentality of like, what does that look like?
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_01: Well, it's these steps that we've been talking about here.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_01: It's been trial and error.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_01: It's been saying, what does it feel good to me?
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_01: And do I even need to do that?
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_01: Probably not.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, what can I do more of here?
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_01: And do we stumble?
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_01: Because as marketing changes, as relationships change, as they have over the last several years with the pandemic, we also have to evolve.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_01: We also have to learn.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_01: And but the most important thing to me is to stay true to who I am.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_01: And the only way that I can do that is by creating space and not having that co-I love that you said codependent, not have a codependent relationship with your business.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_01: I always say, like your business is not your identity, which is very similar.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_01: But man, yeah, it's very easy to get wrapped up in the I go to sleep at night, I can't stop thinking about it.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_01: I get up in the morning, I can't stop thinking about it.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_01: I can't go anywhere without thinking about it.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_01: I'm walking around, you know, with my phone.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_01: I don't do any work for my phone either, by the way.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_01: I do it all from a computer.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_01: So there's lots of standards that you can set to decondition yourself from that so that you're not having to feel like you need to be on all the time, you need to be pretty all the time, you need to have brand photos all the time, you need to post the best content all the time.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_01: I tell people I do not have the best content.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a great storyteller.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_01: I can have a I can have a mean conversation.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_01: I am not the best content writer.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't particularly enjoy having to write things.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_01: And I know that sometimes it's necessary, but I prefer to do it in my way.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_01: And it sometimes means that that's not the magnetic post, but I'm okay with that.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm you were gonna say something and I can't wait for it.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I want to share it's also acknowledging what are your boundaries of what you want to share and don't share.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_00: I have this conversation with my clients all the time, right?
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_00: And where do you feel the most comfortable?
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_00: And there's nothing wrong with it, but there's been a lot of people online who share very vulnerable, traumatic stories, whether it's from the past or currently.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_00: And that's completely fine.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_00: What frustrates me though is when others think that they need to do that.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_00: And because there's so much likes and comments, right?
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_00: Because of this emotional traumatic story.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_00: But what's really important, and I am also not a licensed therapist, I only say this even with me having my own trauma and going through my own therapy, is do honor what works for you.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_00: If you don't want to share, don't share.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_00: If you feel more comfortable in a certain platform, share.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_00: So for example, I made more of a conscious choice this past year of where if I want to be vulnerable, I'm gonna share it with my email list because it's not gonna go out.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_00: It's not like publicize.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_00: I also love that there's agency and choice of people to choose to open or unsubscribe.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_00: And by the way, if you want to join my newsletter, you can go to ElaineLou.com/slash join.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_00: But that's where I feel comfortable.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_00: And social media to me, like I literally posted a reel with a Corgi and was talking about how Corgi buds are the best.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just having fun with it and showing personally.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_00: But I even caught myself last year.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, I feel like I always have to be on, but where can I just be vulnerable?
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_00: And and for those around our age, I miss the zang and like journal days of where you would just read blogs and just entries from our friends back in the day.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_00: That's how I've just treated my own blogs and my own newsletter now.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_00: And then social media, there's this term that people have been using or creating fake Instagram accounts called Finsta, like a fake Instagram account where it's not for work, but they're just using it to follow memes and fun stuff.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_00: But I just want to remind people that's what social media was created for in the first place, was to build relationships.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_00: Like I remember when Facebook come came out, it was when for me, right?
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_00: For my age, I'm 34.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_00: It was around when college started.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_00: So it was like graduating from high school.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_00: How am I supposed to keep in touch with all of my high school friends?
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, then I'm using Facebook to connect with them.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_00: That was for me then.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's social connection, just a reminder.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like when you're right.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_01: So, so for me, here's the thing.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_01: Because I think I I don't want to like slam social media because clearly I have met and have clients and have had amazing collaborations as a result of my connections on social media.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_01: However, I have done so through building relationships, not through building funnels.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_01: It's the relationship, not the funnel.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_01: And when I viewed it as I'm talking to people, and this is a giant networking event.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_01: I know that makes people really uncomfortable sometimes.
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_01: Like for you and for me, maybe not.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_01: I can go into a networking event and I could sit down with a table of people that I had no idea who they were and listen to what they had to say, and I could find connecting points, right?
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_01: Like that's business development 101, right?
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_01: That's what you do.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_01: You just you listen, you don't immediately jump to the sales conversation.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_01: You get to know them, you look at the picture behind their desk.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_01: Like, where what connection point do you have to this person that they feel safe and comfortable having the conversation with you?
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_01: So that is how I have always approached social media, where I found a resistance to it is where it felt like I have to keep up with.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_01: Now, is that a story I tell myself?
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, it is, because I don't have to do that.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_01: I have demonstrated to myself that I don't have to do that.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of times from people who don't have the background, knowledge, support.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I'm a certified coach and um and I'm also credentialed through International Coaching Federation.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_01: I think that there's an opportunity there for people to do things that don't put themselves in situations that are potentially unsafe for themselves, right?
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe not physically unsafe, but mentally unsafe.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_01: And now they start sharing things because somebody's told them that their mindset, their trauma issue is a mindset issue, right?
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_01: So when we're looking at social media, I think it's important for you to look at it as a gigantic networking event or here's your home, who would you invite into it?
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_01: But if you can look at it like that, I think it takes the stigma out of it and it stops you from the feeling of I have to post this thing with this amazing content.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_01: It gives you the power back to say, this other person might be posting this thing.
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna follow them.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_01: I'm going to go celebrate them.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna start a conversation with them for no reason other than this is an amazing person.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_01: And for some reason, I know that they need to be in my orbit.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_01: Does that make sense?
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_01: What I'm saying.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, well, it's what for those that don't know, both me and Paula actually met online.
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I did.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_00: I joined this like five-day program, and I don't know who reached out to who first.
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know if it was you or me, but it doesn't matter.
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_00: But when I was even like looking through Paula's stuff, I was like, oh, I need to get to know her.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_00: And then when we just had that conversation, it just happened last week, like, wow, there's so much similarities.
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_00: And even you like referring me to other programs and sharing your experience, right?
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_00: And that's another thing when people ask me, and this is more of like, I guess, spiritual, but it's also like strategy too, where well, how do you get referrals?
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_00: Well, first off, do you give referrals?
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_00: Because I give a lot of referrals all the time.
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_00: Not for me, but like, oh, you need help with marketing.
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_00: Let me introduce you to Monica Shock.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_00: You need help with mindset, let me introduce you to Nicole Cruz.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I acknowledge what I can support my clients with, and then I have other people that I can refer if it's not me who's the right choice.
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_00: Because at the end of the day, I'm assuming you're the same way as me as Paula, but you know, I'm gonna connect with people with integrity.
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_00: So if it's not me who's the right fit, who else will it be if I know who that person is?
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_01: There's a kind of a running joke with people that I know, particularly with my clients, they'll say, you know, oh, be careful when you talk to Paula because she's about to link you up with so many people.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_01: Because I'm like, there's somebody that you have to know.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_01: There's somebody that you need to meet.
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_01: Can I introduce you to?
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_01: This is why I think that the two of you would be a great connection.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_01: And then I love seeing how it unfolds.
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_01: I love seeing how then people start to either work together in a professional like client coach or client consultant back, you know, opportunity, or when they just start serving each other, they're on each other's podcasts, or one becomes a guest instructor in another's program.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_01: It's amazing what can happen when we just open ourselves up to the power of relationship and use that as our impetus towards success versus I just am gonna look at social media and I'm gonna write the post.
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_01: And I think the performative piece of it is about to become even more aware as we're approaching June, which is a really big month, right?
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_01: For we've got pride.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_01: So, how many people are going to perform by posting things that they typically wouldn't post, Juneteenth?
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_01: So, all of those things.
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_01: So I just to me, it's all about always staying true to who I am.
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_01: How can I build the best relationship?
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_01: And if that doesn't show up in the I have to post something today, or I need to take pictures of my kids everywhere I go so that I can put them on stories and I can't enjoy my meal because I have to take a picture of it and pose it to everybody, or I have to post my schedule of everything that I did today so that everybody knows I'm not here for that.
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna just say I don't have time for that.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_01: That is not, I would rather spend so much more time having conversations like this.
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I just got tired with you just sharing all that stuff, you know.
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_00: And Paul, you're probably share that because I used to be that person.
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_00: I remember having to like take pictures of everything and then like, wait, hold on.
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_00: What is that even showing in my own relationships with my boyfriend or with my family members?
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_00: If I can't just be fully present in the moment, mind you, I think it is important to take pictures of special occasions, but it doesn't have to be every five seconds or finding a happy medium of it.
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe you are on vacation, you take pictures, but you don't have to post then.
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_00: Why don't you just wait three days later when you're back home and post if you choose to?
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_00: But it's creating those healthy boundaries.
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_00: So, Paula, I wanted to ask you, I always love ending episodes with what is one action item and one reflective question you hope our audience gets from this episode.
• 37:45
  SPEAKER_01: Ooh, the reflective question that I would have them ask, and this can be for anything, is what is my motive?
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_01: You can say, What is my intention?
• 37:54
  SPEAKER_01: But what is my motive?
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_01: So if it's I'm going to post this thing, what is your motive behind it?
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_01: Is it is it I'm posting this because I want someone to do something?
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_01: Am I having this conversation because I want them to be my client?
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so you got the reflective question.
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_01: The action item, I mean, I think they're really one and the same.
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_01: My action item though, I I really think the action item would be take inventory of what you're doing right now.
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_01: Make a list, get really clear on what you're doing.
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_01: And it's only then, once you've decided that you that you understand exactly what it is that you're doing, that you can start to scratch things off.
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_01: But I find that so many of that, us, myself included, get wrapped up in the doing and the being on that we don't actually realize how much time we're wasting doing things that we don't want to be doing in the first place.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_00: It's looking at that audit, right?
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_00: Like I do that too.
• 38:59
  SPEAKER_00: I just did that two months ago where I was time tracking everything.
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, oh my gosh, I'm taking forever to do this.
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_00: And mind you, there might be things where you have to do it.
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_00: And a better question is as you're scaling, is do you need to do that?
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_00: Can you delegate that to someone else?
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_00: So then you focus on the things that you really love.
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_00: So those are great.
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_00: Paula, how can people find you if they're interested in learning more about your work?
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_01: The easiest place to find me is at the courage blueprint.com.
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_01: And then if you do want to connect with me via email, there's opportunity there.
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_01: And there's also a few social links.
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_01: Don't be afraid to send me a DM.
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_01: I will respond and it will be me on the other side.
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_01: And you have a podcast.
• 39:41
  SPEAKER_00: So do you want to share a podcast too?
• 39:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I do.
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_01: So my podcast is called The Confidence Sessions.
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_01: And I created it because I was having amazing conversations with women like Elaine and I said a couple of cool men who are doing amazing things in the world.
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_01: And I really wanted to elevate and amplify voices of people who weren't on social media screaming from the rooftops, but were doing such impactful and powerful work that their voices needed to be heard.
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_01: So I would love for you to come take a listen.
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_01: It is on Apple Podcasts and actually everywhere that you can listen to podcasts.
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_01: You can check that out at the courage blueprint.com forward slash podcast.
• 40:24
  SPEAKER_00: And for those that are new to me, I have a podcast which is called your dreams.
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_00: You could check that out on any major platform.
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_00: And join my newsletter where I'm more personal and deep.
• 40:35
  SPEAKER_00: So you could join that at elenelew.com slash join.
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_00: Paula, thank you so much for this conversation.
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_00: And just a reminder for everyone listening, we met online and we just built a relationship.
• 40:48
  SPEAKER_00: And it was like we were talking over each other because we just got so excited where I was just like, I just, we just need to do a podcast episode with each other.
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_01: So here it is.
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_01: Here it is, right here.
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_01: The power of relationships.
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you, Paula.
• 41:01
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for having me.
• 41:03
  SPEAKER_00: So, Legacy Maker, are you performing as well?
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_00: Or are you being more intentional with your life?
• 41:11
  SPEAKER_00: And there is nothing wrong if you're having this level of awareness.
• 41:17
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I just shared throughout the episode since the beginning.
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_00: I used to do the most.
• 41:23
  SPEAKER_00: And thank God I caught myself.
• 41:26
  SPEAKER_00: I want you, legacy maker, to learn from my mistakes.
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_00: And a huge thing I focus on with my clients is creating a sustainable life and lifestyle.
• 41:37
  SPEAKER_00: So if you're feeling unaligned to your current life and career, I want you to schedule a complimentary 30-minute legacy business and career review where you will receive three action items towards your personal and professional goals.
• 41:53
  SPEAKER_00: To schedule, go to elanelew.com forward slash call.
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_00: And if you want more business and career tips beyond this podcast and into your email inbox every Monday, join the ColorDreams newsletter by putting your name and email address at elanelew.com forward slash join.
• 42:14
  SPEAKER_00: That's J-O-I-N.
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_00: Legacy Maker, if you love this Call Your Dreams episode, we would love it if you can leave a rating and review on Apple.
• 42:28
  SPEAKER_00: So more women of color and allies can benefit too.
• 42:33
  SPEAKER_00: And if you have one or two friends that would get so much from this particular episode, please share.
• 42:40
  SPEAKER_00: The intention behind the Color Your Dreams podcast was to contribute and give back to our people.
• 42:47
  SPEAKER_00: All right.