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The Red Queen of Scots: Part II | Mary, Queen of Scots · Beheaded

0:05
SPEAKER_01: Hello and welcome to Beheaded.
0:07
SPEAKER_01: This is still season one, still episode 13, but part two.
0:12
SPEAKER_01: Part two.
0:13
SPEAKER_01: I'm Megan Moore.
0:14
SPEAKER_01: I'm Elizabeth Black.
0:16
SPEAKER_01: And we're still in quarantine.
0:17
SPEAKER_00: Yep, still living the life, a super exciting life.
0:21
SPEAKER_00: We were literally just talking about like, well, what kind of update should we give?
0:26
SPEAKER_00: And we both look at each other like, uh done nothing.
0:30
SPEAKER_01: We're like, we could talk about, you know, the meals we've eaten and the shows we've watched.
0:36
SPEAKER_00: Amazon purchases we've made.
0:38
SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh.
0:39
SPEAKER_00: How how seriously, how how are you doing?
0:42
SPEAKER_00: I'm fine.
0:43
SPEAKER_00: Living from home.
0:44
SPEAKER_01: I'm fine.
0:45
SPEAKER_01: Working from home.
0:46
SPEAKER_01: Living from home, working from home.
0:47
SPEAKER_00: This is our only like social interaction we get.
0:50
SPEAKER_01: Like every two weeks.
0:51
SPEAKER_01: That's it.
0:52
SPEAKER_01: This is us.
0:53
SPEAKER_01: Um, Robbie is like, he's a trainer, so he is like not working at all, obviously, because all gyms are closed.
1:00
SPEAKER_01: So he's just living on unemployment, living the life, which is great.
1:03
SPEAKER_01: He's just very cavalier about this whole situation, and he like comes into my room.
1:07
SPEAKER_01: We have like two bedrooms.
1:09
SPEAKER_01: We share a room, but like we have a guest room, and that's where I work and I do everything.
1:13
SPEAKER_01: And he comes in every five minutes.
1:15
SPEAKER_01: And I'm like still working.
1:16
SPEAKER_01: I'm working eight hour days, and I'm on meetings, and I'm like, you know, doing things and like taking notes and whatever.
1:21
SPEAKER_01: And he comes in just every five minutes and he just gives me looks or like throws the dog in the room, or like does and I'm like, I'm like, I'm still working.
1:29
SPEAKER_01: I'm working.
1:30
SPEAKER_01: Remember, I'm working still.
1:32
SPEAKER_01: He's like, Yeah, but like you can take some time to like hang out, right?
1:35
SPEAKER_01: And like you can hang hang up with the dog and can you take him on a walk?
1:38
SPEAKER_01: I'm just like, you were literally unemployed.
1:40
SPEAKER_00: I'm still working.
1:41
SPEAKER_01: Go take the dog on a walk, go feed the dog, and he just continues to interrupt my life.
1:46
SPEAKER_00: And it's I know that's probably been like the weirdest thing is like Penny, my dog, is just like, Wow, like you're still here, like another day, and you haven't left me alone again for eight hours.
1:58
SPEAKER_01: We we have like a crate that we put Frankie in, um, like when we're gone for an extended period of time.
2:04
SPEAKER_01: Like, we have opposite schedules, so it works, so like he's never in the crate too long.
2:08
SPEAKER_01: But we officially like took down the crate and like put it away because we don't need it.
2:12
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you're home all the time.
2:13
SPEAKER_01: And like our dog was like, What?
2:16
SPEAKER_01: What's happening?
2:16
SPEAKER_01: What do they do to deserve this?
2:18
SPEAKER_01: Okay, and like he thinks he's a really good dog now, and he prances around like Yon's dog.
2:22
SPEAKER_00: Dogs are freaking stoked over this whole situation.
2:25
SPEAKER_00: Cats are not.
2:26
SPEAKER_00: Cats are not.
2:27
SPEAKER_00: We try to do like our daily walks.
2:29
SPEAKER_00: Speaking of cats, Penny made a friend, made a cat friend.
2:34
SPEAKER_00: We we did watch um Tiger King, so I don't don't actually, she might be listening.
2:39
SPEAKER_00: Don't tell Penny.
2:40
SPEAKER_00: Oh.
2:41
SPEAKER_00: I've told her she met a tiger because this cat was orange.
2:44
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
2:45
SPEAKER_00: So this is also what my life has become.
2:47
SPEAKER_00: I'm pretend with the dog.
2:49
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I I convinced her she met a tiger, and so we go and try and find the cat every day.
2:54
SPEAKER_00: It's kind of fun.
2:55
SPEAKER_00: It's exciting.
2:56
SPEAKER_00: Keeps your dog spirits alive right now, is uh looking for cats.
3:00
SPEAKER_01: Frankie also watched Tiger King because there's nothing else to do.
3:03
SPEAKER_01: That show is freaking wild.
3:05
SPEAKER_01: It is actually wild.
3:06
SPEAKER_01: Like it's it's nuts.
3:08
SPEAKER_01: The one thing about that show is like there's no character you sympathize with.
3:12
SPEAKER_00: Every so often you start to shoot towards someone.
3:15
SPEAKER_00: Like, oh well, Carol takes bike rides.
3:17
SPEAKER_00: That's nice.
3:18
SPEAKER_00: She's active.
3:19
SPEAKER_00: Oh, wait, but she's crazy.
3:20
SPEAKER_01: I knew straight off Carol was outside her.
3:22
SPEAKER_01: They're all crazy.
3:23
SPEAKER_01: They're all crazy.
3:25
SPEAKER_01: She pretends to be like the self-righteous, like, oh no, I'm just here to rescue the animals.
3:29
SPEAKER_01: She puts her little like tiara of flowers on her head.
3:32
SPEAKER_01: Oh, she's crazy.
3:33
SPEAKER_01: They're all crazy.
3:34
SPEAKER_01: And her weird, like, submissive husband who wears like cat costumes.
3:38
SPEAKER_01: Everything about that show is is just crazy.
3:41
SPEAKER_01: It is.
3:42
SPEAKER_01: It's a different breed of people you're dealing with there.
3:46
SPEAKER_01: Um, and all very like obsessed with just power in terms of like they think they're the king of the jungle because they can sedate tigers and hang out with them.
3:55
SPEAKER_01: You can sedate my dog and make her hang out with me.
3:57
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I have been.
3:58
SPEAKER_01: We've been experimenting all day with Frankie.
4:00
SPEAKER_01: No, actually, this is real.
4:02
SPEAKER_01: Um, so not we're not torturing my dog, but my dog is white.
4:06
SPEAKER_01: Um, he's like all white, and his little underbelly is like pinkish because his hair is very thin there.
4:12
SPEAKER_01: And so me and Robbie continue to look at the dog every day, and we're like, what if we just shaved him?
4:17
SPEAKER_01: Completely?
4:18
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, like what if we turned him all pink and he just looks like a- But what about his head?
4:22
SPEAKER_01: I mean, we wouldn't like, you know.
4:24
SPEAKER_00: You're gonna let okay, this is what I envision.
4:26
SPEAKER_00: All of him shaved, but his tail and like a little like helmet of a fur.
4:31
SPEAKER_01: We might keep the head, but like, what if we did his tail too?
4:33
SPEAKER_01: He'd look like a little tiny piggy because he's kind of overweight.
4:36
SPEAKER_00: Oh my god, we all need to get out of the house.
4:38
SPEAKER_00: We all need to get it.
4:39
SPEAKER_01: Quarantine Rain.
4:40
SPEAKER_01: We're thinking very uh outside the box here.
4:43
SPEAKER_01: Just it don't be surprised if uh Frankie's debut on Instagram he's nude.
4:49
SPEAKER_00: Oh my god.
4:50
SPEAKER_00: I hope all of you are keeping sane, keeping healthy, stay inside.
4:55
SPEAKER_00: Stay inside.
4:56
SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah, tell us about you know, we we want more comments.
5:00
SPEAKER_00: We want to interact more with our community.
5:02
SPEAKER_00: So we have gotten more now that we are in quarantine, which thank you.
5:05
SPEAKER_00: We have gotten some more, which I think is a testament to people being so bored out of their minds they've turned to listen to listening to us.
5:12
SPEAKER_00: Oh, please, we're fabulous.
5:14
SPEAKER_00: We are fabulous.
5:15
SPEAKER_00: Uh tell your friends, comment, rate us.
5:18
SPEAKER_00: The more we get comments, the more we're willing to put out there and interact with everyone.
5:23
SPEAKER_01: And speaking of, like, yes, this is our last episode of the season.
5:27
SPEAKER_01: Um, we're not coming back until the fall, so you're gonna have to wait until then.
5:31
SPEAKER_01: This is our last one for a walk.
5:33
SPEAKER_01: We're excited for our next season.
5:34
SPEAKER_01: We're already coming up with like which episodes we're gonna do.
5:37
SPEAKER_01: We're gonna plan it a little bit more in terms of drinks and food and uh segments.
5:41
SPEAKER_01: They give a shit about what we're drinking.
5:43
SPEAKER_01: You might not care.
5:44
SPEAKER_01: I deeply care about what I will be drinking and eating in each show.
5:47
SPEAKER_01: Um, so it's gonna be a really fun time.
5:49
SPEAKER_01: But but in the off-season, we're not gonna like completely go away because No, we'll still be alive.
5:53
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, well, my god, I hope.
5:55
SPEAKER_01: We just really cursed us.
5:57
SPEAKER_01: Um, but in the off-season, we're gonna do, you know, just some stuff on Instagram.
6:00
SPEAKER_01: We're gonna have some content.
6:02
SPEAKER_01: It's more behind the scenes stuff, um, maybe some deeper dives into our previous episodes.
6:06
SPEAKER_01: So there's still gonna be like stuff.
6:08
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, just not these full-long episodes, but just gives us more to look forward to in the fall.
6:14
SPEAKER_00: And we have been getting suggestions on things you want to listen to and um, you know, our upcoming executions.
6:21
SPEAKER_00: We we now that I think we've gotten into like our groove a little bit and we are talking about Mary Queen of Scots again today, part two.
6:28
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
6:28
SPEAKER_00: Um, we are hitting some of these bigger ones, so I'm feeling Thomas Cromwell.
6:33
SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah, I'm feeling some maybe some balloons coming up.
6:38
SPEAKER_00: Ooh, yes.
6:39
SPEAKER_00: Um, I know we keep teasing, but I feel like we're there.
6:42
SPEAKER_00: I feel like we're ready.
6:43
SPEAKER_01: We're there.
6:43
SPEAKER_01: Season two is gonna be a very exciting season.
6:47
SPEAKER_00: Okay, so we were talking very in-depth about Mary Queen of Scots.
6:52
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
6:52
SPEAKER_00: Gonna give a quick little recap.
6:54
SPEAKER_00: If you haven't listened to part one, I recommend listening to that unless you are very well educated and know everything about her.
7:01
SPEAKER_00: In which case fast forward to two.
7:03
SPEAKER_00: You just want to get to the execution, then you know what?
7:05
SPEAKER_00: All the more power to you.
7:07
SPEAKER_00: But for those who stuck with us, um, part one, we got up to the point where Mary's second husband, Lord Darnley, was just assassinated.
7:19
SPEAKER_00: So at this point, Mary is in Scotland but doesn't have a lot of supporters.
7:24
SPEAKER_00: She is a thriving Catholic, and the Protestants are rebelling against her.
7:29
SPEAKER_00: Um, she has her new son, James VI, and yeah, um, her last husband was just murdered, and fingers are kind of pointing at Mary, Queen of Scots.
7:41
SPEAKER_00: She was very conveniently away from the location when he was sleeping in the middle of the night, and the house literally blew up.
7:49
SPEAKER_00: Um, some accounts say that they found him with some strangulation around his neck.
7:54
SPEAKER_00: Others say that he was actually found lynched in a tree when they found him, but it's pretty clear he was murdered, he was assassinated.
8:02
SPEAKER_00: And um, while he was not a likable figure in the community, he had a lot of enemies.
8:08
SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
8:09
SPEAKER_00: Um, Mary Queen of Scots uh really did not like her husband and was trying to get out of this marriage.
8:14
SPEAKER_00: So people are looking pretty poorly upon her and and thinking that she was the one who set up this murder.
8:20
SPEAKER_01: Correct.
8:21
SPEAKER_01: Um, and at this point, um things start to take an interesting turn, and she is actually kidnapped um by Bothwell.
8:28
SPEAKER_01: So if you're Wait, what?
8:30
SPEAKER_00: I feel like this like came on the blue.
8:33
SPEAKER_00: And in other news, Mary Queen of Scots is now kidnapped.
8:36
SPEAKER_00: No, but that's real, that happened.
8:38
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it was this is real.
8:39
SPEAKER_01: So, James Hepburn, who's the fourth Earl of Bothwell that we mentioned, who people believe to have conspired with Mary um for the death of Lord Darnley, um, they all of a sudden realize that he has taken her.
8:53
SPEAKER_01: And again, we're not sure if she was extremely willing, because this was her whole plot all along, to be like, oh no, my husband dies, and oh no, I'm captured now, and now I have to be with this Bothwell guy, or if it was a true, like he kind of had this plan, she wasn't involved.
9:07
SPEAKER_01: After the death of Darnley, he abducted her.
9:10
SPEAKER_01: But regardless, it was a kidnapping, whether it was consensual and planned, or whether it was her not knowing, she was taken away.
9:18
SPEAKER_00: She becomes pregnant, and they say, you know, supposedly he kidnapped her and raped her, right, and then basically forced her into a marriage with him.
9:27
SPEAKER_00: Right.
9:27
SPEAKER_00: And who knows did Mary do this because oops, she did become pregnant consensually, right?
9:34
SPEAKER_00: And now she had to make this right, being in the 1500s that she now has to get married.
9:39
SPEAKER_00: Um, or was this really more of an imprisonment situation and you know, God forbid she was raped and and kidnapped and forced into this marriage.
9:49
SPEAKER_01: Right.
9:50
SPEAKER_01: And either way, like she had to make it essentially right, whether it was consensual or non-consensual, she had to make it right and officially marry him.
9:59
SPEAKER_01: So at this point, she marries her third husband, Bothwell.
10:03
SPEAKER_01: Um, and so if you remember from our previous episode, we referenced John Knox a few times.
10:08
SPEAKER_01: He was a powerful minister in Scotland who wanted Scotland to become a Protestant state and had very much been opposed to everything Mary Queen of Scots.
10:17
SPEAKER_01: So at this point, he is absolutely infuriated by her third marriage.
10:22
SPEAKER_00: Uh interjection.
10:24
SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah.
10:24
SPEAKER_00: Bothwell was also just divorced 12 days before he married Mary Queen of Scots.
10:31
SPEAKER_00: Good call out.
10:31
SPEAKER_00: So freaking suspicious there.
10:34
SPEAKER_00: And so many people said that that divorce was not legitimate.
10:37
SPEAKER_00: Um, that was completely suspicious, and the whole thing is is fishy.
10:43
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
10:43
SPEAKER_00: So people are after them at this point, and they do not support this marriage.
10:47
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
10:47
SPEAKER_00: This is her third marriage, by the way.
10:49
SPEAKER_01: People are calling for justice all around.
10:51
SPEAKER_01: Knox is kind of leading um everyone to again like be at odds with her.
10:56
SPEAKER_01: So at this point, like she doesn't really have a way out.
11:00
SPEAKER_01: Like, no one else supports her.
11:01
SPEAKER_00: They're calling her an adulteress, they're calling her a murderer because they're saying Bothwell and her planned the murder of her last husband.
11:10
SPEAKER_00: Um, she's in she's on some hot coals right now.
11:13
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
11:14
SPEAKER_01: Um, so the the next part of where she goes from here, there's a couple different accounts.
11:20
SPEAKER_01: Some people say that she was at this point just imprisoned.
11:23
SPEAKER_01: Um, she was taken away, she was arrested.
11:25
SPEAKER_01: Everyone realized that again she she needed to be kind of called in for justice.
11:30
SPEAKER_01: Some say that she handed herself over because she was so overwhelmed by just all the animosity against her that she said, Okay, like if you think I'm such a troublesome person, fine.
11:41
SPEAKER_01: Like, I hand myself in, find something wrong with me.
11:44
SPEAKER_01: But either way, she kind of like that that side of it.
11:46
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
11:47
SPEAKER_00: You know, if you're that confident, then you know, handle all the power to figure it out.
11:53
SPEAKER_01: Right.
11:53
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
11:53
SPEAKER_01: Even though you're a woman in the 1500s, and we've all seen the story play out.
11:58
SPEAKER_01: Elizabeth is also queen.
11:59
SPEAKER_01: Sure, okay.
12:00
SPEAKER_01: Different time.
12:01
SPEAKER_01: Um, so but either way, she realized that she had kind of compromised her throne and there was just no way back to power.
12:07
SPEAKER_01: Um, I thought this was interesting though, as soon as she did either turn herself in or get arrested, um, the first castle she was held in when she was under arrest was um a castle that William Wallace, flashing back a few episodes, um, he actually had conquered from the English for Scotland.
12:23
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
12:24
SPEAKER_01: So it was kind of a cool little, you know, moment.
12:26
SPEAKER_01: I love it when they connect.
12:27
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
12:28
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
12:28
SPEAKER_00: I love it when they they intertwine like that.
12:31
SPEAKER_00: So a lot of like William Wallace like reminiscence lingering around here like that.
12:37
SPEAKER_00: Right.
12:37
SPEAKER_01: Um, and at this point when she is imprisoned, um, she does give birth to uh twin boys.
12:43
SPEAKER_00: I think boys was I I said twin that they were.
12:47
SPEAKER_01: But they were still born.
12:50
SPEAKER_01: Um there is a line of thought, like there are some historians that say, you know, there was really no proof that they were still born or or died at birth.
12:58
SPEAKER_01: Like some people think maybe they were smuggled out of the country.
13:01
SPEAKER_01: I just think that's far-fetched because if that was the case, yeah.
13:05
SPEAKER_00: I feel like in this time they very much held up to their royalty and their status, and I think it would be a complete anomaly to let somebody, you know, loose for lack of a better word, like let them free to go live this normal life.
13:21
SPEAKER_00: I think we would have heard of them coming up again.
13:24
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, at some point they would have been like, actually, I'm the heir to Scotland.
13:27
SPEAKER_00: You hear these fairy tales of like, you know, I didn't know I was from royal uh descent.
13:32
SPEAKER_00: Like, I don't know, I'm thinking of like sleeping beauty.
13:34
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like or like Aurora, you know, how like, oh, who, me?
13:38
SPEAKER_00: Like, I'm not a princess.
13:39
SPEAKER_00: I just don't think that actually happened.
13:41
SPEAKER_00: I think they would have held very true to who they were.
13:43
SPEAKER_01: And we did talk about this in the William Wallace episode, too, of like how we wanted to believe that he did all these things out of love and he had this you know maid that he fought for.
13:52
SPEAKER_01: And sometimes it's just nice to have that fairy tale, like, oh, like fairy tales.
13:56
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know, of course Anastasia didn't die in the vicious Romanov killing.
13:59
SPEAKER_01: She's still out there living her life.
14:01
SPEAKER_01: And of course, uh, you know, these stillborn children weren't actually like they didn't die at birth, they were taken to France and they're free and they're living their lives.
14:08
SPEAKER_01: So, again, some people do think that probably not true.
14:13
SPEAKER_01: Um, okay, so at this point it is 1567.
14:17
SPEAKER_01: Um, so when she's in prison, she has these stillborn twins, she's then forced to abdicate the throne the throne, the Scottish throne, to her one-year-old son, King James VI.
14:28
SPEAKER_00: We also learned this word abdicate in William Wallace.
14:32
SPEAKER_00: At least I did.
14:33
SPEAKER_00: Hopefully, a lot of people already knew what this meant.
14:35
SPEAKER_00: But it basically means like when you're giving it up.
14:37
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
14:38
SPEAKER_00: It's kind of like um when you're the president and well, not really impeachment because that's force.
14:43
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
14:43
SPEAKER_00: It's like a res resignation.
14:45
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
14:46
SPEAKER_01: Um, so at this point, she's getting a little bit more desperate because obviously she's been through these three marriages.
14:52
SPEAKER_01: She's had um, you know, this miscarriage.
14:54
SPEAKER_01: Um, her one-year-old son is now king of Scotland.
14:57
SPEAKER_00: Oh my goodness.
14:58
SPEAKER_01: And so she's starting to plan her escape from Scotland again.
15:01
SPEAKER_01: She's sending letters to Elizabeth I, which is her cousin, kind of imploring her.
15:05
SPEAKER_01: And at this point, Mary doesn't really know Elizabeth's feelings towards her.
15:09
SPEAKER_01: Like Elizabeth.
15:11
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, Elizabeth is like such a Mary Queen of Scots hater.
15:15
SPEAKER_01: Like, again, she thinks she's a threat, she's Protestant, whereas Mary's Catholic, and so she just sees everything about her to be extremely threatening.
15:22
SPEAKER_01: But Mary doesn't really see this, she's just like, oh, my cousin, who is in another country and we have different beliefs and whatever, but I can still call on her to save me in this situation.
15:32
SPEAKER_01: Um, so it isn't until um the following year, 1568, that she actually escapes prison, like escapes her castle.
15:40
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, with some help.
15:42
SPEAKER_01: Which is funny, she was actually smuggled dressed as a servant.
15:45
SPEAKER_01: So they dressed her up as a servant and were able to get her out of there.
15:48
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
15:49
SPEAKER_00: Of course.
15:49
SPEAKER_00: Why would I why would she ever wear these?
15:52
SPEAKER_00: She's like servant clothes.
15:56
SPEAKER_01: Um, but so she she attempts to raise an army at this point.
15:59
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's the first thing she does.
16:01
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, which is badass.
16:02
SPEAKER_01: But like she's not just trying to walk away in the dark.
16:05
SPEAKER_01: She's actually like, okay, fuck you guys, here's what I'm gonna do.
16:08
SPEAKER_00: So in our last episode in part one, we talked about her half-brother a little bit.
16:12
SPEAKER_00: He's the Earl of Moray, and he's Protestant, and he's always butted heads with his cousin Mary.
16:20
SPEAKER_00: And so the very first thing that she does when she finally escapes from prison is she raises an army of 6,000 people.
16:29
SPEAKER_00: And this is all to fight against her half-brother.
16:32
SPEAKER_00: Um, sadly enough, though, she fights him, they try, and she's defeated pretty badly.
16:39
SPEAKER_00: Um, and she flees.
16:40
SPEAKER_00: And where does she flee to?
16:42
SPEAKER_00: She goes to England.
16:44
SPEAKER_00: Which, as we know, like looking in the past, like, ugh, girl, that was not your move.
16:48
SPEAKER_00: Why wouldn't you go to France where you know you're gonna be safe?
16:51
SPEAKER_00: She's safe in France, but she she really thinks she's oblivious to Elizabeth I, seeing her as a threat.
16:59
SPEAKER_00: And so she goes back to where she also has family, she has her cousins, she flees to England, and that does not work out for her.
17:07
SPEAKER_00: No.
17:07
SPEAKER_00: Get out, like, get out of there.
17:10
SPEAKER_01: And Elizabeth has all the power to kind of determine um Mary's fate at this point.
17:14
SPEAKER_01: So she has all the power.
17:16
SPEAKER_01: So she gets she she receives Mary and she's like, Okay, I can send you to France, which is the nice thing of me to do.
17:22
SPEAKER_01: Like, basically, send you, you know, to this refuge where you would be safe.
17:26
SPEAKER_01: That's probably the nicest option.
17:28
SPEAKER_01: I can send you back to Scotland where you could just meet your fate there, and maybe you'll be murdered, who knows?
17:33
SPEAKER_01: Like, or I can imprison you in England.
17:35
SPEAKER_00: And just and just to recap from last time, too, Elizabeth sees Mary, Queen of Scots, her cousin, as a threat because she has some lineage to the throne.
17:45
SPEAKER_00: And if Elizabeth is ever thrown over, it would go to Mary.
17:50
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
17:50
SPEAKER_00: So why would you help and support the person that would be your next step?
17:54
SPEAKER_00: Like, I don't know, me being like a a nice, like soft, loyal person, I would be like, yes, family.
18:01
SPEAKER_00: Like, I don't know.
18:03
SPEAKER_00: I personally would want to prepare them to take after me if if need be.
18:08
SPEAKER_00: They're also the same age though, like roughly the same age.
18:11
SPEAKER_00: True age.
18:12
SPEAKER_00: So maybe if it was someone younger, I'd be like, hey, take after my footsteps and I'll I'll teach you.
18:16
SPEAKER_00: If you're like your direct competition, you're like, girl, might be taking you out.
18:22
SPEAKER_00: This is like one of the greatest competitions in uh history.
18:26
SPEAKER_01: It's it's ridiculous, especially because they were both so powerful and people admired them so much in different ways.
18:33
SPEAKER_00: These two strong redheaded women.
18:35
SPEAKER_01: Which is hilarious when you see a rendition of um like like you know, Rain or whatever these like contemporary shows and movies are where they have like brown hair.
18:44
SPEAKER_00: You're like No, except for the movie Mary Queen of Scots.
18:47
SPEAKER_01: Right, they're both and they are both redheads, but in the mood the show Rain, it's like Mary Queen of Scott's is this gorgeous, dark, young brunette.
18:55
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, don't get me started on Rain.
18:57
SPEAKER_01: Oh, really quick going back to my opinions.
19:00
SPEAKER_01: Um but going back to Mary Queen of Scott's appearance, though, she was actually 5'10.
19:05
SPEAKER_00: No, 5'11's 5'11.
19:08
SPEAKER_00: I saw that too.
19:09
SPEAKER_00: Very tall.
19:10
SPEAKER_00: Which I don't know.
19:12
SPEAKER_00: I think that that is such a cool, like, little fun fact because think about in the 1500s, the average height, even for men, was short.
19:18
SPEAKER_00: That was 5'7, 5'8.
19:20
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
19:21
SPEAKER_00: But if you think about it, she has tutor blood.
19:24
SPEAKER_00: The tutors were redheads and they were tall.
19:27
SPEAKER_00: Right.
19:27
SPEAKER_00: King King Henry VIII was what, six foot one?
19:30
SPEAKER_00: He was huge.
19:31
SPEAKER_00: Six foot two.
19:32
SPEAKER_00: I would even say larger than that.
19:33
SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
19:34
SPEAKER_00: Let's look it up to make sure.
19:35
SPEAKER_00: Of King Henry the Eighth.
19:39
SPEAKER_00: He was six foot two.
19:40
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
19:41
SPEAKER_01: Very large.
19:42
SPEAKER_01: Um, and also funny that in the Tudors, he's also not a redhead.
19:45
SPEAKER_01: They pointed like he's like, I know, right?
19:47
SPEAKER_00: Like, I love like the redhead is such a unique trait.
19:53
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
19:53
SPEAKER_00: Elizabeth had red hair, Henry had red hair, Mary Queen of Scots had red hair, or at least Auburn, they called it.
20:00
SPEAKER_00: Right.
20:00
SPEAKER_00: Um, but yeah, she was 5'11, so that was very tall, especially for a woman back then.
20:07
SPEAKER_00: And I love that about her.
20:09
SPEAKER_00: Go her.
20:10
SPEAKER_01: Go her.
20:11
SPEAKER_01: Um, so essentially, of all these options uh that Elizabeth has for Mary's fate, she decides to imprison her in England.
20:20
SPEAKER_01: And what she does is uh she kind of moves Mary from castle to castle.
20:24
SPEAKER_01: Um so what she's trying to avoid is the Catholics like uprising against her.
20:29
SPEAKER_01: So she's not trying to make it look like a straight up like you're in a dungeon.
20:32
SPEAKER_01: She's trying to make it look like I'm just moving you from castle to castle, you're still having a very comfortable lifestyle, and in the meantime, your Catholic like brethren aren't going to revolt against me because I'm not doing anything too bad to you.
20:44
SPEAKER_00: This is this was a very common trait of Elizabeth I, and this isn't the first time she's done this, and there's gonna there's gonna be other prisoners that we're gonna talk about where she does the same exact thing.
20:56
SPEAKER_00: Not just like Lady Jane Gray, but like her whole family.
21:00
SPEAKER_00: They she does this thing of house arrest where they feel just comfortable enough where they don't feel like they're in prison.
21:07
SPEAKER_00: Like right now with the Yeah, it kind of basically feels like quarantine from a virus.
21:13
SPEAKER_00: You don't you shouldn't leave it from a pandemic.
21:15
SPEAKER_01: Like you're comfortable.
21:16
SPEAKER_01: You're comfortable.
21:17
SPEAKER_01: You have what you need.
21:18
SPEAKER_00: You have your Netflix, you have your frozen pizza.
21:21
SPEAKER_00: Mary Queen of Scots had at least 16 of her own domestic staff, which I think is saying something that Elizabeth trusted her that she could have her same servants and ladies in waiting.
21:32
SPEAKER_00: Um still the four Marys, by the way.
21:34
SPEAKER_00: The four Mary's Marys led up all the way through her arrest.
21:37
SPEAKER_00: We talked about them, her, Mary Mary, quite contrary, um, ladies in a row.
21:42
SPEAKER_00: So she had them.
21:44
SPEAKER_00: She had tapestries and nice clothing and big dinners and fireplaces, and you know, sh I don't want you to think that she was being held in shackles in the dungeons of the Tower of London for years and years and years.
21:58
SPEAKER_00: That wasn't the case.
21:59
SPEAKER_00: She was actually.
22:00
SPEAKER_00: Living in a very nice style.
22:01
SPEAKER_00: She had little dogs with her, but she was a prisoner of her own estate and she couldn't leave.
22:06
SPEAKER_01: Mm-hmm.
22:07
SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
22:08
SPEAKER_01: Um, and so at this point, like whether or not it's true, there's rumors that Catholics are still plotting against Elizabeth.
22:15
SPEAKER_01: You know, whether it be because Mary is quote unquote imprisoned, or just because, again, the whole time they've been trying to overthrow Elizabeth anyway.
22:23
SPEAKER_01: Um, so these things start, there starts to be whispers of these different, you know, Catholic plots.
22:29
SPEAKER_01: Um, so at a certain point, Mary is finally put on trial for the murder of Darnley.
22:35
SPEAKER_01: So the the her second husband, Henry Stewart, Lord Darnley, she's finally kind of having to own up to it.
22:42
SPEAKER_01: Um, she's really not allowed to defend herself in this, like, again, trial.
22:47
SPEAKER_01: I'm putting air quotes around trial.
22:49
SPEAKER_01: Um, but the only thing they really had to go against her was these things called the casket letters.
22:55
SPEAKER_00: The casket letters.
22:56
SPEAKER_00: I love this.
22:57
SPEAKER_00: This casket, it was this long silver chest, and it had the emblem of King Henry II on it.
23:05
SPEAKER_00: So, not to be confused with the Henries of England, King Henry II, he was the father of Francis, who was Mary's first husband.
23:15
SPEAKER_00: So it's it's uh it's her ties back to France.
23:19
SPEAKER_00: And the casket supposedly, you know, what they called the casket letters, it included eight unsigned letters um to Bothwell, two marriage contracts, and different like sonnets and songs and lyrics and poems, but all of it was unsigned, and they basically saw these letters as complete guilt to Darnley's murder, and saying, Yes, Mary was responsible for this murder because she was in love with Bothwell and she was already starting a relationship with him.
23:55
SPEAKER_00: Um, but she counteracted to all of that and she said, Oh no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
24:00
SPEAKER_00: This is complete forgery, and this is not my handwriting, none of these have my signature, and I'm set up.
24:06
SPEAKER_01: So after all of that, the casket letters, it really kind of showed that this whole, again, quote unquote trial was didn't really like do anything.
24:18
SPEAKER_01: Like, nothing came of it.
24:19
SPEAKER_01: Um, so it was really just like a way to get her scared, to try and get her to admit to certain things, but nothing came of it.
24:26
SPEAKER_01: It was just like a complete exercise of power, really.
24:29
SPEAKER_01: Um, so Mary, again, didn't nothing happen to her that was different.
24:33
SPEAKER_01: She was still just remaining imprisoned.
24:35
SPEAKER_01: Um, and little sideline of all of this, Bothwell, her third husband, um, he actually started again just leading leading a life of complete debauchery and like just complete craziness.
24:48
SPEAKER_01: Um, and so he actually ended up in Copenhagen.
24:52
SPEAKER_01: Um he was in Denmark for a time, and uh he was actually beat by a man whose daughter had slept with him.
25:01
SPEAKER_01: So this man I know that's scandalous.
25:03
SPEAKER_01: So this man was like, Oh, you you like deflowered my um my daughter, blah blah blah, you stole her honor.
25:10
SPEAKER_01: So, as punishment, this man in Denmark actually like locks him in his attic or something like that, where where the ceiling was so short that he couldn't stand up.
25:21
SPEAKER_01: So he's locked in this like cellar attic thing um where he essentially just goes insane.
25:28
SPEAKER_01: So he No, I I would too.
25:30
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, you can't he can't fully stand up, he's just there again in quarantine because of the rona.
25:36
SPEAKER_01: And you keep mentioning quarantine.
25:39
SPEAKER_01: I just want to make it related.
25:40
SPEAKER_00: I just want to also say there's a difference between quarantine and imprisonment.
25:44
SPEAKER_01: I know, but for purposes of these.
25:46
SPEAKER_01: We're using those words interchangeably.
25:48
SPEAKER_01: They're interchangeable because you guys all understand what imprisonment's like now.
25:51
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
25:52
SPEAKER_01: Um so um, so he's in quarantine because of the rona in this little attic, and that's eventually how he goes insane.
26:00
SPEAKER_01: So he dies alone, he's crazy, and he's in Denmark after like his one night stand with this girl, um, you know, whose father freaks out on him, and that's the end of Bothwell.
26:11
SPEAKER_01: The thing, I'd be sad if I cared about him, but he sounds like a jerk.
26:15
SPEAKER_00: You know what karma?
26:16
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so that's how he meets his end.
26:19
SPEAKER_00: But meanwhile, Mary Mary, quite contrary, our star of the show.
26:24
SPEAKER_00: Um, she is overall imprisoned by Elizabeth for 19 years.
26:30
SPEAKER_00: That's insane.
26:32
SPEAKER_00: 19 years old.
26:32
SPEAKER_00: Where were you 19 years ago?
26:34
SPEAKER_00: I was what can you do the math for me?
26:38
SPEAKER_00: 11.
26:38
SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
26:39
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
26:39
SPEAKER_00: I was in fifth grade.
26:41
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
26:42
SPEAKER_00: Very different person.
26:43
SPEAKER_00: Didn't shave my legs legs at all.
26:45
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
26:46
SPEAKER_00: Oh.
26:47
SPEAKER_01: Um I did start shaving my legs in fifth grade.
26:50
SPEAKER_01: That's the the year I started.
26:51
SPEAKER_01: I think I started, but not when I was a maybe, yeah, I guess when I was 11.
26:55
SPEAKER_01: Oh, 11 was sixth grade for me.
26:57
SPEAKER_01: But I was young for my class.
26:58
SPEAKER_01: Anyway, continue.
26:59
SPEAKER_01: This was that was a really bad late.
27:02
SPEAKER_01: What was my doing?
27:04
SPEAKER_00: Not shaving my legs.
27:05
SPEAKER_00: That's what I was doing.
27:06
SPEAKER_00: Any other any other interests?
27:08
SPEAKER_00: I took a baton twirling class.
27:10
SPEAKER_00: No, you didn't.
27:11
SPEAKER_00: I for sure did.
27:12
SPEAKER_00: Flaming batons?
27:13
SPEAKER_00: I wish.
27:14
SPEAKER_00: Nope, just a baton.
27:16
SPEAKER_00: Cool.
27:17
SPEAKER_00: Anyways, um, yeah, 19 years is a long time.
27:20
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
27:21
SPEAKER_00: I was doing karate then.
27:23
SPEAKER_00: I was you're a badass.
27:25
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
27:25
SPEAKER_01: Four years of karate that ended when I was 11 because I thought it was embarrassing.
27:29
SPEAKER_01: Oh, well, I was in middle school.
27:31
SPEAKER_01: It is.
27:31
SPEAKER_01: No, just kidding.
27:32
SPEAKER_01: I was in middle school, I was like, this is baton is pretty cool.
27:35
SPEAKER_01: So you should have gotten the baton classes way better.
27:39
SPEAKER_00: This entire time, Elizabeth is just kind of like finding these ways of like, how can I get my nemesis out of my hair?
27:48
SPEAKER_00: She is still under the belief that at any given point people are going to override her and get Mary onto the throne.
27:55
SPEAKER_00: Which is so insane.
27:57
SPEAKER_01: Like, we talked about this a little before recording, but thinking of how paranoid King Henry VIII is.
28:02
SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
28:03
SPEAKER_01: And this just translated She took after her father.
28:06
SPEAKER_01: 100% to Elizabeth.
28:07
SPEAKER_01: Paranoid.
28:08
SPEAKER_01: Just like, okay, like, what do I do?
28:10
SPEAKER_01: How can I protect myself?
28:11
SPEAKER_01: Who can I kill?
28:12
SPEAKER_01: Who do I get rid of to secure my you know, my throne and my family?
28:15
SPEAKER_01: Everyone's after you.
28:17
SPEAKER_00: It's you know what?
28:18
SPEAKER_00: If she weren't such a Slytherin and just a Hufflepuff, she could just make friends with everyone and they would all be living in What was Mary Queen of Scots?
28:25
SPEAKER_01: Was she?
28:27
SPEAKER_00: I would say she's a Gryffindor.
28:28
unknown: Yeah.
28:29
unknown: Yeah.
28:29
SPEAKER_01: I would say that.
28:31
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
28:32
SPEAKER_01: Um, so all through this, too, because again, she's been in prison for 19 years.
28:36
SPEAKER_01: So her young boy, who was one year old when he took over as King of Scotland, now grows up.
28:41
SPEAKER_01: He's King James VI.
28:43
SPEAKER_01: He did not offer her any help through the situation whatsoever.
28:48
SPEAKER_01: So he has not communicated with her.
28:50
SPEAKER_01: I don't think she's actually seen him since he was 11 months old, which is insane.
28:55
SPEAKER_01: So they have zero relationship.
28:56
SPEAKER_01: He's full on a Protestant, so he's not about to help his like Catholic mother who's who does she even have.
29:02
SPEAKER_01: No, literally no one.
29:04
SPEAKER_01: Like all of her husbands have died or you know gone away.
29:07
SPEAKER_01: Staff households.
29:09
SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
29:09
SPEAKER_01: She has all she has her marries and nothing else.
29:13
SPEAKER_01: Not her son, no one else, zero people in France or Scotland kind of care about her at this point.
29:18
SPEAKER_01: The only people that do are like Catholics that sympathize with her, essentially.
29:22
SPEAKER_00: So at this time we're about in the 1580s, um, about 1586.
29:28
SPEAKER_00: And Elizabeth I has her Privy Council write up what we call the bond of association.
29:35
SPEAKER_00: This was primarily written by uh William Cecil and um another part of the Privy Council, um, Walsingham.
29:43
SPEAKER_00: I think William.
29:44
SPEAKER_00: That sounds about right, William Walsingham.
29:46
SPEAKER_00: Um they write out this treaty or or this document that basically says anyone in line for throne on whose behalf plotted against the queen can be executed.
30:00
SPEAKER_00: That's crazy.
30:01
SPEAKER_00: And like breaking that down, what that means is okay, let's say I'm queen and Elizabeth is my cousin.
30:07
SPEAKER_00: Even if she has nothing to do with it, but there was a rebellion that used her name to try to overthrow me.
30:15
SPEAKER_00: Right.
30:16
SPEAKER_00: So even if you are like, no, no, no, I'm innocent, I have nothing to do with it, but people want you to get in on my throne, I can have you executed.
30:23
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
30:24
SPEAKER_01: Even though you don't even do anything.
30:25
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
30:26
SPEAKER_01: So any power trip.
30:28
SPEAKER_01: Essentially Catholic who plotted against Elizabeth, um, uh, you know, would result in Mary's death.
30:34
SPEAKER_00: Which is like such a tyrant act.
30:38
SPEAKER_00: And I don't get me wrong, I have respect for Elizabeth in her own ways, like mad prophets.
30:43
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I I love a lot that Elizabeth I did, but there is this other side to her where she was extremely controlling, extremely powerful, had a high temper, very much like her father.
30:55
SPEAKER_00: I was gonna say probably her King Henry VIII side.
30:58
SPEAKER_00: Yes, she had this Tudor blood in her that they would call like the Tudor fire inside of them.
31:03
SPEAKER_00: That like she built every wall around her to protect herself and protect her throne and her crown.
31:09
SPEAKER_00: Right.
31:09
SPEAKER_00: Part of that going as far as saying, hey, if your name creeps up as someone getting involved, you will take not only like not you will lose your succession to the crown, but I'm just gonna execute you.
31:20
SPEAKER_00: Yep.
31:21
SPEAKER_00: And that's what they fell on, and that's the thing that got Mary Queen of Scots in in so much trouble.
31:27
SPEAKER_00: Right.
31:28
SPEAKER_01: Um, so at this point, there's something that comes around that's called the Babbington plot.
31:33
SPEAKER_01: Um, so there were more letters, kind of like the casket letters between her and Bothwell.
31:38
SPEAKER_01: There were more letters that were found between her and this person, Babbington.
31:43
SPEAKER_01: And Babbington was a nobleman, really, like no one of very much significantly.
31:48
SPEAKER_01: Anthony Babbington.
31:49
SPEAKER_00: He was basically like recruited by John Ballard.
31:54
SPEAKER_00: They were they were spearheading this whole plot.
31:56
SPEAKER_00: There was multiple people involved, but basically it was overthrow Elizabeth, get Mary on the throne.
32:01
SPEAKER_01: Right, so assassinate Elizabeth, find a way to get Mary on the throne.
32:05
SPEAKER_01: So again, more suspicious letters, whether or not they were forged, like no one knows how these came about, but they were found, and they were letters speaking of assassination, which is exactly what they were looking for.
32:17
SPEAKER_01: So they couldn't get her on um her killing her second husband, um, darn darnly.
32:23
SPEAKER_01: They instead got her for this, for these letters speaking of assassination.
32:26
SPEAKER_01: So she was found guilty of plotting against Elizabeth I.
32:30
SPEAKER_00: So altogether there were 14 conspirators who are found guilty for wanting to assassinate Elizabeth I.
32:37
SPEAKER_00: Right.
32:38
SPEAKER_00: Okay, you're gonna love this.
32:39
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
32:39
SPEAKER_00: Or hate this.
32:40
SPEAKER_00: Oh.
32:41
SPEAKER_00: But love it because you're listening to Beheaded.
32:44
SPEAKER_00: The she decided to execute them in two rounds.
32:48
SPEAKER_00: Oh.
32:48
SPEAKER_00: The first seven.
32:50
SPEAKER_00: And these are the conspirators.
32:51
SPEAKER_00: These are the conspirators.
32:52
SPEAKER_00: Not Mary yet.
32:53
SPEAKER_00: Nope, not Mary.
32:54
SPEAKER_00: We're not talking about her yet.
32:55
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
32:55
SPEAKER_00: Um, I believe it was like September 20th, was the first round of seven.
33:00
SPEAKER_00: And that included Anthony Babbington after the Babbington plot.
33:04
SPEAKER_00: So he was like obviously a main guy in it.
33:06
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
33:07
SPEAKER_00: And his recruiter, John Ballard, amongst five other men.
33:11
SPEAKER_02: Ooh.
33:11
SPEAKER_00: They were all sentenced to be drawn and quartered, which was the sentence for treason for someone of their statue.
33:18
SPEAKER_00: Refer to uh William.
33:20
SPEAKER_00: So for those who haven't quite gotten into drawn and quartering, that's where you are hanged, but not hanged enough where you lose consciousness.
33:28
SPEAKER_00: You then become disemboweled, they cut you open, they pull out your insides, they burn it in front of you.
33:35
SPEAKER_00: Burn it in front of you, they cut off your head.
33:37
SPEAKER_00: Well, they castrate you.
33:38
SPEAKER_00: Oh, sorry, yes, and then they cut off your head.
33:40
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
33:40
SPEAKER_00: It's a process.
33:43
SPEAKER_00: Well, the there's a public audience for this execution, and there's seven of these that they're doing.
33:49
SPEAKER_00: And they are so disturbed and horrified, and there's public outcry over the intensity of these executions and how gruesome they were.
33:59
SPEAKER_00: There's so many of them.
34:00
SPEAKER_00: There's so many.
34:00
SPEAKER_00: There's imagine God, so much blood, so many bowels being pulled out.
34:05
SPEAKER_01: And think about like this is like you know, the Middle Ages.
34:08
SPEAKER_01: This is when people were used to seeing these types of things, used to see drawn and quartered, you'd you know, used to seeing beheadings, and that audience is the one that's like, okay, this is too much.
34:17
SPEAKER_01: That's when you know that was too much.
34:19
SPEAKER_01: That's when you know it's real bad.
34:20
SPEAKER_00: So I love this.
34:21
SPEAKER_00: Elizabeth goes, okay, okay, okay, we have seven more to do, but let's do this.
34:27
SPEAKER_00: And she she quotes, she goes, hang them until they're not quite dead, and then you can disembowel them.
34:36
SPEAKER_00: So they're passed out.
34:38
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so she makes it a little bit easier the next round, and she gets them to hang them a little bit longer so that they are more unconscious during the situation.
34:46
SPEAKER_00: Right.
34:47
SPEAKER_00: But they still go through the same process.
34:49
SPEAKER_01: So normally they would splash water on you to keep you awake.
34:52
SPEAKER_01: Keep you alive.
34:52
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no.
34:53
SPEAKER_01: So at this point they're like, let them pass out, like it's fine.
34:55
SPEAKER_01: So that sucks for the first round.
34:57
SPEAKER_01: They had to learn their lesson.
34:58
SPEAKER_00: 14, 14, 14 in total.
35:01
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
35:01
SPEAKER_00: And of course, because Mary Queen of Scots, she's of she's a queen.
35:05
SPEAKER_00: She's of high statue.
35:06
SPEAKER_00: She is not gonna get stature.
35:09
SPEAKER_00: She's of high stature, she's not gonna get the same type of sentence.
35:13
SPEAKER_00: Right.
35:14
SPEAKER_00: Um so Elizabeth then signs the document to have uh Mary executed.
35:21
SPEAKER_00: Right.
35:21
SPEAKER_00: However, what happens, Elizabeth?
35:23
SPEAKER_00: You Elizabeth, I don't want to get confused.
35:25
SPEAKER_01: I'm also Elizabeth.
35:27
SPEAKER_01: Not Elizabeth.
35:28
SPEAKER_01: Should I call you Lizzie?
35:29
SPEAKER_01: Uh, sure, for the purposes of this episode, do not get us confused.
35:32
SPEAKER_01: Why not?
35:33
SPEAKER_01: Liz, Eliza, whatever you want to call.
35:35
SPEAKER_01: Eliza.
35:35
SPEAKER_01: Nobody calls me these names.
35:37
SPEAKER_01: Um, anyway, so there's a couple of things.
35:40
SPEAKER_01: Uh so Elizabeth was said to have perhaps signed this document accidentally.
35:48
SPEAKER_01: So some people think that like she was just kind of being pushed papers of different things, and like, okay, sign this, sign this, here you go.
35:54
SPEAKER_01: And so someone like certain historians think that maybe she just signed something not fully knowing or being aware of the fact that she was executing Mary, Queen of Scots.
36:04
SPEAKER_01: So that's one thing.
36:05
SPEAKER_01: There also has been um other rumors, and I think they showed this in uh which which show was it or movie was it?
36:11
SPEAKER_00: Um the HBO mini-series, Elizabeth.
36:15
SPEAKER_00: Not Elizabeth I with Kate Blanchette, but the one with Helen Mirrin.
36:20
SPEAKER_00: Right.
36:20
SPEAKER_00: They show where she she signs it and she goes, Okay, fine, here you go.
36:24
SPEAKER_00: And then she goes, Wait, like, hold on to that, don't do anything with it.
36:28
SPEAKER_00: Is that's it's as if I didn't even sign it.
36:31
SPEAKER_00: Right.
36:31
SPEAKER_00: So she kind of goes back and regrets she just signed her cousin's execution warrant.
36:37
SPEAKER_01: Right.
36:37
SPEAKER_01: So she may have said, Oh, actually, like, don't do anything with that until I give word.
36:41
SPEAKER_01: Like, yes, I signed it, but let me actually tell you when it's gonna happen.
36:45
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, hold on to that.
36:46
SPEAKER_01: So, so there are different theories that either saying she didn't know she signed it or she did, but she said, wait.
36:51
SPEAKER_01: Um, either way, this this comes into fruition.
36:54
SPEAKER_01: So um, Mary Queen of Scots is told literally the day before she's executed.
36:59
SPEAKER_01: So here she is, 19 years in prison, and the day before her execution, someone comes to her and says, Hey, tomorrow's your day.
37:06
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, at 8 a.m.
37:08
SPEAKER_00: tomorrow morning, yeah, and she goes, By this time tomorrow, I would have already been dead for four hours.
37:14
SPEAKER_00: Right.
37:14
SPEAKER_00: And she's kind of like, I don't have enough to time to prepare.
37:18
SPEAKER_00: And the person delivering this news goes, and of course, this is just kind of like from accounts, and I'm saying this very loosely, but something along the lines of like, Well, you must have known this was coming, you should have had enough time to prepare.
37:32
SPEAKER_00: Like, we don't need to give you hours warning, you had to have known all these trials, you're in prison, this was gonna happen eventually.
37:39
SPEAKER_00: So she's up for she's up for the the block with less than 12 hours away.
37:45
SPEAKER_01: Hope never dies, I guess.
37:46
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
37:47
SPEAKER_01: Um, but she was said to have said something, and I'm not sure if this was when she was delivered the news or right before her execution.
37:54
SPEAKER_01: Um, but she says something that I thought was like so profound, and again, kind of shows that she's such a progressive woman of her time.
38:01
SPEAKER_01: She says, the theater of history is bigger than the realm of England.
38:06
SPEAKER_01: Ugh.
38:06
SPEAKER_01: And I thought that was so powerful because it's like here she is living in French court, living in Scotland, like living in England, and she's just trying to remind everyone like, hey, like maybe this whole English tutor thing is all you guys think about, and this is your world, but there's more to life and more to history than just you.
38:22
SPEAKER_01: They're living in that bubble, right?
38:24
SPEAKER_01: Forgetting the bigger picture.
38:26
SPEAKER_01: Um, so that was a very powerful thing she said.
38:29
SPEAKER_01: Um, and then I think even in like Rain and certain accounts, they kind of mentioned that she thought maybe her son, James 6, would kind of intercede on her behalf and say, Whoa, whoa, you can't just go execute my mother.
38:40
SPEAKER_01: Didn't happen.
38:41
SPEAKER_01: Never happened.
38:41
SPEAKER_01: He didn't care.
38:43
SPEAKER_01: No one came to save her.
38:44
SPEAKER_01: So here we are on February 8th, 1587.
38:48
SPEAKER_01: We're at the execution.
38:49
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
38:50
SPEAKER_01: So she arrives at the execution stage, and it's actually an indoor execution stage.
38:54
SPEAKER_01: Yes, it was inside.
38:55
SPEAKER_00: It's like the Great Hall.
38:57
SPEAKER_00: And they covered the scaffold with a black, like tarp or blanket.
39:02
SPEAKER_00: So kind of a different thing from what we're used to.
39:05
SPEAKER_00: This isn't your outside nitty-gritty straw and blood and the people screaming.
39:11
SPEAKER_00: Right.
39:11
SPEAKER_00: Um, this is inside black.
39:14
SPEAKER_00: The um the chopping block is covered in black.
39:19
SPEAKER_00: She's wearing black.
39:22
SPEAKER_00: Pretty somber occasion.
39:24
SPEAKER_00: There's close to 300 people witnessing this.
39:26
SPEAKER_00: Right.
39:27
SPEAKER_01: Um, but she is in this black, like satin robe or gown or something.
39:31
SPEAKER_01: And when she walks up to the stage, what she does is she disrobes and she underneath her black um satin robe has a red dress on or a crimson red.
39:40
SPEAKER_01: Crimson red dress.
39:42
SPEAKER_01: Um, and so uh this is known to be the sign of a Catholic martyr.
39:47
SPEAKER_01: Um so people immediately are like, okay, like she's doing this for Catholicism, like she's going down as a Catholic.
39:53
SPEAKER_00: She's making a statement here until the very end.
39:56
SPEAKER_00: Um, oh my gosh, like this.
39:58
SPEAKER_00: I I I've had like visions of us talking about this moment, but it's like when you walk through it step by step, like I honestly get emotional thinking about all of it.
40:08
SPEAKER_00: There is only about two to three steps, and she goes up.
40:11
SPEAKER_00: Um, she's praying on her rosierie, it's uh an ivory rosierie, and they take it from her.
40:17
SPEAKER_00: So it was very customary for the executioner to kneel down, especially for someone of royalty that they were about to execute and ask for forgiveness.
40:26
SPEAKER_00: And her response to him asking forgiveness, she says, I forgive you with all my heart.
40:32
SPEAKER_00: For now, I hope you shall make an end of all my troubles.
40:36
SPEAKER_00: Which just like she did not have an easy life, and she is now in her forties.
40:42
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
40:42
SPEAKER_01: This started when she was a kid.
40:43
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, she was only 44 when her execution took place, so she's fairly young, and having to deal with again, like three dead husbands, all of these issues with people just coming against her when she didn't, in fact, do anything.
40:57
SPEAKER_01: Like, she didn't sentence anyone to death, she didn't like start any crazy revolutions, like she was just trying to keep peace, survive, and her and her role that she was born into.
41:07
SPEAKER_00: Um, I like this as well.
41:08
SPEAKER_00: So we talked about how she was she took off her black robe to show her crimson dress underneath, and as she disrobed, Mary kind of smiled in front of everybody, which this has kind of been a thing of like, is there this distance from reality as they're moments away that they know they're going to die?
41:25
SPEAKER_00: A pretty violent death.
41:27
SPEAKER_00: Right.
41:27
SPEAKER_00: Um, and she disrobes and she kind of smiles and says, Never had such grooms before, know her ever put off her clothes before such a company.
41:39
SPEAKER_00: So it's her little cheeky way.
41:41
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, she's kind of being cheeky, but also I can sure extremely nervous.
41:46
SPEAKER_00: Um, there's a pillow in front of the block and they put a gold-laced blindfold around her eyes, and she kneels down, and when she gets ready for the blow, she puts her arms out.
42:01
SPEAKER_00: Yep.
42:02
SPEAKER_00: And the blow was not a clean cut.
42:05
SPEAKER_00: Not a clean cut.
42:07
SPEAKER_00: And we've laughed about our botched executions.
42:09
SPEAKER_00: This is one botched execution, like I can't even laugh about it.
42:13
SPEAKER_00: This is so sad.
42:14
SPEAKER_01: So it's terrible.
42:15
SPEAKER_01: Some say that it was four attempts for her head.
42:18
SPEAKER_01: Um, they say the first blow was either straight on her shoulders or straight on the back of her head.
42:24
SPEAKER_01: But either way, did not take to the neck, did not cut.
42:28
SPEAKER_01: She was very much conscious.
42:29
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and it was said that she like inhaled deeply and said something along the lines of sweet Jesus.
42:36
SPEAKER_01: Like, so she was still very much conscious when the first blow should be there.
42:40
SPEAKER_00: When you just got an axe struck into your back.
42:44
SPEAKER_00: Or your head, where your head goes.
42:47
SPEAKER_00: Is your first the first thing that comes out of your mouth, would that be sweet Jesus?
42:52
SPEAKER_00: Not today, but maybe back then that was a swear word.
42:54
SPEAKER_00: I just try to think of like what would I scream at?
42:58
SPEAKER_01: Are you kidding me right now?
43:01
SPEAKER_01: You had one job.
43:04
SPEAKER_01: Are you drunk?
43:05
SPEAKER_01: I don't know what I would think.
43:07
SPEAKER_01: I probably would involve several.
43:10
SPEAKER_00: She even made words, makes it show.
43:13
SPEAKER_00: It's so much more real.
43:14
SPEAKER_00: He, the executioner, so he blows the first time and misses.
43:18
SPEAKER_00: Yep.
43:19
SPEAKER_00: Quickly gets her again, doesn't completely hanging off by a strand.
43:26
SPEAKER_00: We talked with Dr.
43:27
SPEAKER_00: John a couple episodes again about you know leaving a few tendons hanging from your neck.
43:35
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
43:36
SPEAKER_00: Um he basically then starts sawing off the remaining complete.
43:42
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
43:43
SPEAKER_00: Um, he holds up her head and says, Long live the queen, grabs her by the her hair, her auburn, beautiful curls, and her head falls off.
43:54
SPEAKER_00: Lo and behold, she was wearing a wig.
43:55
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
43:56
SPEAKER_01: So she had short gray hair that was actually her natural.
44:00
SPEAKER_01: So when he lifted up her head to show everybody, the head fell out of the wig.
44:05
SPEAKER_01: And so here she is.
44:06
SPEAKER_01: She's known for her like auburn curls, her like reddish curls.
44:09
SPEAKER_00: To the very end.
44:10
SPEAKER_00: And uh not real.
44:12
SPEAKER_00: Not real.
44:13
SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, and you can imagine, like, so she's not that terribly old, right?
44:17
SPEAKER_00: Especially in today's standards.
44:19
SPEAKER_00: But you can imagine all the stress she went through.
44:21
SPEAKER_00: I'm sure she lost her hair, and I'm sure she had gray hair, and plus they cut it short for lice and everything else, and then they would wear their wigs on top of it.
44:29
SPEAKER_00: So that was a very distasteful movement when he holds up her head and it just kind of falls and rolls over, and he's just holding her wig.
44:39
SPEAKER_01: Again, when you're in this setting that's so somber and everything's in black and it's inside, and there's only noble people in attendance, and then here you are trying to make this last gesture of long live the queen, and the head falls out of the way.
44:49
SPEAKER_00: It just is like a comedy act where it's like just so distasteful and just such a disrespect to all that she went through.
44:56
SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
44:56
SPEAKER_01: Um, you can talk about Sky.
44:58
SPEAKER_01: Oh my god, okay.
44:59
SPEAKER_01: So this is another insane part is like as soon as again the head rolls down, they see the body convulse.
45:07
SPEAKER_01: So that's normal, is after the head's cut off, the body kind of like shakes, convulses a little bit, like after you her lips are still moving, her lips are still moving on her head, and then people are wondering why her body's still moving around after like 15 seconds.
45:20
SPEAKER_01: They're like, what?
45:20
SPEAKER_01: What's going on?
45:21
SPEAKER_01: It's convulsing around that still.
45:23
SPEAKER_01: It's still moving around a little bit.
45:24
SPEAKER_01: Maybe because you didn't get a clean cut the first time.
45:27
SPEAKER_01: Perhaps.
45:28
SPEAKER_01: But then they find that a tiny little terrier dog crawl out from under her skirts.
45:34
SPEAKER_01: My penny.
45:35
SPEAKER_01: So all of a sudden, her little terrier, Sky, the the dog's name was Skye, like runs out from under all of her skirts.
45:43
SPEAKER_01: So this whole time that she like makes her, you know, not speech, but says her final words, lays down on the block, gets her head cut off.
45:51
SPEAKER_01: Through all of this, there's a dog underneath all of the shortcuts.
45:53
SPEAKER_00: I would force her bring my little penny with me during a moment like that.
45:57
SPEAKER_01: It reminds me of the Romanov episode we did when there was a dog in the execution room and everyone's murdered, and the dog escapes.
46:03
SPEAKER_01: I'm like, what do these poor little doggies think when like their owners are just like, okay, this is the end of them.
46:09
SPEAKER_00: So I I read um the book of Mary Queen of Scots by Margaret George.
46:14
SPEAKER_00: And when she di puts into detail this execution.
46:18
SPEAKER_00: Margaret George, by the way, is one of my favorite tutor authors and writers and historians.
46:25
SPEAKER_00: But she writes very lengthy books.
46:27
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, they're very big novels.
46:29
SPEAKER_00: But they I think it was the executioner or one of the councilmen or someone was like, they said, you know, her blood would be drunk by dogs, and they kind of shoved the dog's face into the pool of blood.
46:41
SPEAKER_00: Like, wait, what?
46:42
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like drink her blood, because like that was something that someone said at one point.
46:46
SPEAKER_00: Like her blood would be drunk by dogs.
46:49
SPEAKER_00: Um, it was like this very horrific scene.
46:52
SPEAKER_00: But I know where both both Elizabeth and I, like, our hands were over our faces right now.
46:56
SPEAKER_00: And Frankie, if you're listening, don't drink mommy's blood.
46:59
SPEAKER_00: As Penny's like cur curled up on my lap, and I'm just like, it's okay, Ben.
47:04
SPEAKER_00: It's fine.
47:04
SPEAKER_01: I would take you to my big soft spot for dogs, and Frankie's definitely coming with me to my execution.
47:10
SPEAKER_01: But that's Mary, Queen of Scots.
47:12
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and you know, some people say like different things about her, like maybe it was her terrible choice in husbands, aside from Frances.
47:19
SPEAKER_01: Frances seemed pretty good, but maybe it was her choice in men that led her down these deep dark paths.
47:24
SPEAKER_01: Like maybe it was because Elizabeth?
47:26
SPEAKER_01: She yeah, she trusted Elizabeth.
47:27
SPEAKER_01: Um, she was a very pretty woman.
47:30
SPEAKER_01: Like it was very, like, it was known throughout all countries that she was strikingly beautiful.
47:35
SPEAKER_01: And so maybe it was because of her combination of power and looks and everything that caused Elizabeth to just go a little nuts and be like, I can't have that girl.
47:42
SPEAKER_01: Like get her out.
47:43
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, like you know, so it could have been pure jealousy.
47:46
SPEAKER_01: She could have been strictly a political pawn her whole life, like people moving her across the chessboard, trying to figure out like where she would make the most sense, and everyone just had to get rid of her at some point.
47:56
SPEAKER_01: But either way, you know, she again didn't do a whole lot in terms of like doing anything to deserve such a bad fate.
48:04
SPEAKER_01: Like, she only did good, she only tried to make things harmonious, she only tried to um you know smooth things over with a Scottish uh nobleman and tried to be religiously tolerant and all these things and never really, you know, succeeded.
48:17
SPEAKER_00: And and the good thing is despite her execution, her lineage did live on.
48:23
SPEAKER_00: So James the Sixth changes it up to James the First.
48:27
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, oh we we talked about this a little, I don't know if it was in the last episode, um, but we we had said that weirdly, sometimes you have like a monarch who changes kingdoms or goes different places, and instead of becoming like the eighth or the first, they like change according to which kingdom they're in.
48:44
SPEAKER_01: So James the Sixt of Scotland becomes James I of England.
48:49
SPEAKER_00: Funny enough, as soon as Elizabeth died in 1603, James I now of England, of England becomes the next king.
48:59
SPEAKER_00: And if you ever wondered what happens after Elizabeth and what happens after the Tudor dynasty, this is what happens, James I.
49:07
SPEAKER_00: So in the end, Mary Queen of Scots, her son, is now ruling England.
49:12
SPEAKER_02: Yep.
49:12
SPEAKER_00: Which I don't know if that's like a burn or not, because he was so against her and did not support her through all of this.
49:19
SPEAKER_00: But he did unite England and Scotland.
49:22
SPEAKER_01: He did unite them.
49:23
SPEAKER_01: He actually created Great Britain, he united the kingdom.
49:27
SPEAKER_01: That's amazing.
49:28
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
49:28
SPEAKER_01: Um, so finally in 1612, like well after her death, he agrees to move her body to the Westminster Abbey.
49:36
SPEAKER_01: So today she lies there right next to Elizabeth I and Mary Tudor, which is really interesting because so fascinating.
49:46
SPEAKER_01: I know.
49:46
SPEAKER_01: Elizabeth and Mary Tudor are right next to each other, and they literally have like an inscription on their tomb that says partners in throne and grave.
49:55
SPEAKER_01: They hated each other.
49:56
SPEAKER_01: They hated each other, they hated each other.
49:58
SPEAKER_00: I mean, they were Elizabeth was enemies with Mary I, her sister.
50:02
SPEAKER_00: She was enemies with Mary, Queen of Scots.
50:05
SPEAKER_01: And so I doubt Elizabeth wanted to be next to all these people at her death, but here they are being like, oh, like here are two half-sisters, like Elizabeth I and Mary Tudor next to each other.
50:16
SPEAKER_01: Isn't it lovely?
50:17
SPEAKER_01: And then they're like, by the way, here's also Queen Mary of Scots.
50:20
SPEAKER_01: Oh, hey, can I just slip into this party?
50:23
SPEAKER_01: Hey guys, I'm here.
50:24
SPEAKER_01: I'm here.
50:25
SPEAKER_00: It's fun.
50:26
SPEAKER_00: And Cousin Mary.
50:28
SPEAKER_00: So it's a little Mary Queen of Scots.
50:32
SPEAKER_00: So we're at the end of season one.
50:35
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
50:36
SPEAKER_00: Sigh, deep sigh.
50:37
SPEAKER_00: Deep sigh.
50:38
SPEAKER_00: We had a lot of people we went over.
50:40
SPEAKER_00: A lot of centuries.
50:41
SPEAKER_00: We did.
50:42
SPEAKER_00: A lot of countries.
50:43
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
50:44
SPEAKER_00: A lot of executions.
50:45
SPEAKER_00: A lot of executions.
50:46
SPEAKER_01: I think it's time for a timeline.
50:48
SPEAKER_01: I think so.
50:49
SPEAKER_01: We're gonna do a quick timeline check of all 13 executions in our season one.
50:55
SPEAKER_01: Isn't it weird that we did 13?
50:58
SPEAKER_01: No.
50:58
SPEAKER_01: I think it's appropriate.
51:00
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
51:00
SPEAKER_01: Right?
51:01
SPEAKER_01: Okay, so let's switch off.
51:03
SPEAKER_01: So you go ahead and start, and then we'll switch off everyone.
51:06
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
51:06
SPEAKER_01: So we're gonna tell you the year of the execution and then like where in the world this took place.
51:10
SPEAKER_00: I just want to say it took us like a lot to actually just get these notes together.
51:16
SPEAKER_01: You can't remember half our episodes.
51:17
SPEAKER_00: We're like, okay, who is Ramsey?
51:21
SPEAKER_00: What where did we start?
51:22
SPEAKER_00: What have we done?
51:24
SPEAKER_01: But it's cool, and this is exciting putting it all in context.
51:27
SPEAKER_01: It's kind of cool.
51:27
SPEAKER_00: Okay, I like this.
51:28
SPEAKER_00: Okay, so this isn't in order of episodes, order of timeline.
51:33
SPEAKER_00: So our first oldest execution, Ramses III in Egypt, 1155 BC.
51:40
SPEAKER_01: BC.
51:40
SPEAKER_01: Remember?
51:41
SPEAKER_01: BC.
51:41
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
51:41
SPEAKER_01: BC.
51:42
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
51:42
SPEAKER_01: Next is Socrates in 399 BC in Athens.
51:48
SPEAKER_00: William Wallace, 1305, technically executed in London, but was arrested in Scotland.
51:55
SPEAKER_00: Mm-hmm.
51:56
SPEAKER_01: The next is Richard Roos, who died in 1531 in London.
52:00
SPEAKER_01: He was the first of our Tudor series.
52:03
SPEAKER_01: And if you remember, he was the one who was accused of poisoning Bishop Fisher.
52:09
SPEAKER_00: Next up, Elizabeth Barton, also the nun of Kent.
52:13
SPEAKER_00: She was the crazy one who was making all these prophecies about King Henry VIII, and he didn't like that.
52:19
SPEAKER_00: So she was also executed in London in 1534.
52:23
SPEAKER_01: Ooh.
52:24
SPEAKER_01: Followed by Margaret Pohl, who was right after that in 1541 in London.
52:30
SPEAKER_01: And if you remember, she was the one who was the governess to Mary I.
52:34
SPEAKER_01: So Mary Tudor, who was the daughter of King Henry VIII.
52:38
SPEAKER_00: Of course.
52:39
SPEAKER_00: Cannot forget Mary, Queen of Scots.
52:41
SPEAKER_00: Nope, can't forget her now.
52:42
SPEAKER_00: Our saint.
52:51
SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
52:52
SPEAKER_01: And then we fast forward uh another century to Salem, Massachusetts.
52:56
SPEAKER_01: So this is when the colonies are over there in the American.
52:59
SPEAKER_00: Early episodes.
53:00
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, exactly.
53:01
SPEAKER_01: This is 1672 during the Salem Witch trials.
53:05
SPEAKER_00: Next up was William Kidd.
53:08
SPEAKER_00: The pirate, Captain William Kidd.
53:10
SPEAKER_00: 1701, arrested in New York for piracy, but was executed in London and hung over the Thames River.
53:18
SPEAKER_00: I think he was executed arrested in Boston.
53:20
SPEAKER_00: Arrested in Boston?
53:22
SPEAKER_00: Close enough.
53:24
SPEAKER_00: Arrested in Boston and taken to London to be executed.
53:28
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
53:29
SPEAKER_01: Next is Marie Antoinette.
53:31
SPEAKER_01: She was our very first episode.
53:33
SPEAKER_01: Um died in 1793 of the guillotine in France.
53:38
SPEAKER_00: Black Jack Ketchum.
53:40
SPEAKER_00: Woo! Ketch him if you can.
53:41
SPEAKER_00: Ketchem if you can.
53:42
SPEAKER_00: 1901, New Mexico, USA for train robbery.
53:47
SPEAKER_00: Yeehaw.
53:48
SPEAKER_00: Yeehaw.
53:49
SPEAKER_01: Followed by the Romanovs, the whole family of the Romanovs in 1918 in Russia.
53:56
SPEAKER_00: Russia.
53:58
SPEAKER_00: And topping it off with our bad boy who got us banned on Instagram multiple times.
54:03
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
54:04
SPEAKER_00: The dictator Benito Mussolini.
54:07
SPEAKER_00: Mussolini.
54:08
SPEAKER_00: 1945 in Italy.
54:11
SPEAKER_00: Perfect.
54:12
SPEAKER_00: That's our timeline.
54:13
SPEAKER_00: Well, I just want to thank everybody for sticking with us.
54:16
SPEAKER_00: If you are a diehard executionado from the beginning, thank you.
54:20
SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
54:21
SPEAKER_00: Everybody, comment, feedback, like us, tell us what you want.
54:25
SPEAKER_01: Tell us what you want in the off season while we're not recording it so Elizabeth.
54:30
SPEAKER_00: We had a promise.
54:31
SPEAKER_01: I know.
54:32
SPEAKER_01: We're gonna fulfill our promise from episode one.
54:35
SPEAKER_01: Okay, so if you guys don't remember, we're gonna refresh your memory.
54:39
SPEAKER_01: But in uh episode one, we actually mentioned that like a big reason why we connected as friends and as like fans of history, um, is because we found out like in our very first brunch together right away that we had very distant relations that kind of bound us together.
54:56
SPEAKER_01: And we told you a little bit about it, and we've been holding off to tell you the rest, but I think it's time to reveal our ancestry identities, and this is real life.
55:05
SPEAKER_00: This is real.
55:06
SPEAKER_00: We are not not shitting with it.
55:08
SPEAKER_01: This is why we created this podcast because we have such a deep love of everything that our families come from.
55:14
SPEAKER_00: So you you can go first because I love the story that your grandmother gave you.
55:19
SPEAKER_01: Well, okay.
55:20
SPEAKER_01: So, growing up as a kid, again, I'm from Denver, Colorado.
55:24
SPEAKER_01: Like, my family is a mix of Wyoming people and Nebraska people, like, nothing fancy, nothing exciting.
55:32
SPEAKER_01: Um, but my my family from Nebraska always said, you know, like back in the day, like we came from from England and we had this funny history, blah blah blah.
55:42
SPEAKER_01: We were related to a queen who got her head cut off.
55:44
SPEAKER_01: And I was like, wait, what?
55:46
SPEAKER_01: And I never like appreciated history much as like a middle school or even early high school.
55:50
SPEAKER_01: I always thought, like, okay, like I know we're also kind of French, so probably Marie Antoinette, I don't know.
55:56
SPEAKER_01: But lo and behold, after doing my own digging, after like finding out some things, like again, through online portals, like through talking to family, we are actually descendants of Mary Boleyn.
56:10
SPEAKER_01: So Mary Boleyn is my grandmother like 15 generations ago.
56:15
SPEAKER_01: So I'm like a direct descendant of Mary Boleyn, um, which means Anne Boleyn was my aunt, my auntie.
56:22
SPEAKER_00: Mary Boleyn was Anne Boleyn's sister.
56:24
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
56:25
SPEAKER_00: Oh, that's so huge.
56:26
SPEAKER_00: And I remember when you told me that, I almost started crying.
56:29
SPEAKER_01: I just would be like, she was like, and I literally like when I found this out, I was so excited to be like a descendant of a Boleyn that I like told everyone I knew.
56:39
SPEAKER_01: I was like, oh my gosh, I don't know if you know the Boleyns, but like I'm I'm you know, not Queen Anne, but her sister Mary, like that's my great, great, great, great, great, great, great grand grandmother.
56:47
SPEAKER_01: And everyone's like, who, what?
56:49
SPEAKER_01: It's so sad.
56:51
SPEAKER_01: I know, and I think Megan, Megan was the first person who was like, Oh my gosh.
56:55
SPEAKER_00: You you told me that, and this was when I was like trying to hold back my nerdiness.
56:59
SPEAKER_00: And I have I started my passion with tutor history.
57:02
SPEAKER_00: I was probably like 10 or 11 years old, and I remember sitting at brunch and I just dropped my fork.
57:08
SPEAKER_00: I'm like, Are you kidding me?
57:10
SPEAKER_00: And then I just like vomit everything that I love about Anne Boleyn and the whole Boleyn history, and I'm like, well, George and Mary and their mothers, Elizabeth Boleyn and George Boleyn, and and like I'm going and Thomas, and I'm like going into it.
57:22
SPEAKER_00: She's like, whoa, you know a lot about it.
57:24
SPEAKER_01: I think, yeah, the first thing I said was, Do you know who that is?
57:26
SPEAKER_01: I was like, Do you know who Mary Boleyn is?
57:28
SPEAKER_01: As my food is like coming out of my mouth.
57:30
SPEAKER_01: She like launched into all of this.
57:31
SPEAKER_01: I was like, Okay, yeah, you you know a lot.
57:32
SPEAKER_01: You know more than me.
57:33
SPEAKER_01: Great, cool.
57:34
SPEAKER_00: Let me teach you everything.
57:36
SPEAKER_00: So that's when I came out with who I was related to.
57:39
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
57:40
SPEAKER_00: And I first heard this, I want to say it was fifth or sixth grade, I think.
57:45
SPEAKER_00: And my grandmother would tell me, my mom would tell me, and my grand my sorry, my great-grandmother back in the 40s, 50s had a professional historian build out a family tree for us, which means that they hired someone to like go back far into our lineage and go into all those records, which was just something that they did before Ancestry.com came about.
58:08
SPEAKER_00: So it was really cool that first I got these documents and I saw them, like, oh, that's really, really cool.
58:12
SPEAKER_00: And then that's how I kind of got into it as well, and I started learning about this person a lot.
58:18
SPEAKER_00: Um, and then I I got onto Ancestry.com and I was like, but is that real?
58:22
SPEAKER_00: So then I started going back in my history, and you know, my my great-grandmother's maiden name was Moore, and she was British.
58:32
SPEAKER_00: And I hope you can start figuring out the pieces when I say more.
58:35
SPEAKER_00: And it goes back and back, and I was eventually, and this is according to Ancestry.com, related to an Isadore Moore, and it goes back farther until the 1500s.
58:47
SPEAKER_00: My family is a descendant of Sir Thomas More.
58:50
SPEAKER_02: Who means our fates have intertwined.
58:55
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
58:56
SPEAKER_01: And I'll let you describe kind of the connection between Boleyn's and the boys.
59:00
SPEAKER_00: Well, of course, Anne Boleyn will be one of our episodes.
59:02
SPEAKER_00: Hopefully, in season two, Sir Thomas More will be will be one of our episodes.
59:07
SPEAKER_00: He was executed kind of, I don't want to say it's by Anne Boleyn, but she had a big hand in it.
59:14
SPEAKER_00: By Anne Boleyn.
59:15
SPEAKER_00: She had a very heavy hand in convincing Henry VIII at that time.
59:19
SPEAKER_00: Right.
59:19
SPEAKER_00: So um, yeah, I am the descendant of an executed ancestor.
59:24
SPEAKER_00: You're the descendant of an executed ancestor, both in the same times.
59:28
SPEAKER_00: And but um, anyways, we just thought that would be a cool thing to reveal.
59:32
SPEAKER_00: Not to in any way like add to our credibility, because of course, we are again, I keep reiterating, we are amateurs.
59:38
SPEAKER_00: We just this is a hobby.
59:39
SPEAKER_00: We are not professionals, we are not historians.
59:42
SPEAKER_00: This is just something we love.
59:43
SPEAKER_01: We're excited about it, and I think you kind of understand a little bit where our passion and excitement comes from.
59:49
SPEAKER_01: Um, so we hope you think that's a cool little fun fact about us that we've been, you know, waiting to reveal for a while.
59:54
SPEAKER_01: Um, but it's funny when like even certain moments and just like how we interact with each other and how we like approach situations, we're like, this makes so much sense of like our lineage, of just like, you know, again, just like being a bowlin, being strategic, like being cunning versus like, oh, but I'm just so and I just want everything to be okay.
1:00:13
SPEAKER_00: Um so we we kind of play around with it that you are the downfall of my family, but also your family didn't do so well either.
1:00:22
SPEAKER_01: We didn't fare so hot in the long run.
1:00:24
SPEAKER_01: And uh I mean Mary was a little bit smarter than Ann by escaping all of this and then going into the countryside and having my direct ancestors, so you know.
1:00:33
SPEAKER_00: Well, I'm so excited for season two because we're gonna get into some of these very deep high-profile executions.
1:00:43
SPEAKER_00: Um, thank you again for listening.
1:00:45
SPEAKER_00: I'm excited for over the summer.
1:00:46
SPEAKER_00: We're gonna do snippets and specials, and maybe we had a lot of bloopers from this episode.
1:00:53
SPEAKER_01: Our bloopers are honestly our bloopers are kind of gold, so we might post some bloopers from here and there, just being like, listen to our weirdness when we're a model point.
1:01:04
SPEAKER_01: Which you thought was the edited version.
1:01:06
SPEAKER_00: My god, you should see the outtakes.
1:01:08
SPEAKER_00: So there's some fun stuff you should uh check out.
1:01:11
SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for all of our listeners and um Elizabeth.
1:01:16
SPEAKER_00: Any final words?
1:01:17
SPEAKER_00: Nope, just stay home, stay safe right now, and we'll be back in uh season two in the fall.