Latest / 360 with Katie Woolf / Deputy Commissioner Operations and Road Safety. Michael Murphy on the prevalence of crime, particularly youth crime, in the NT, and how police are coping

Transcript

Deputy Commissioner Operations and Road Safety. Michael Murphy on the prevalence of crime, particularly youth crime, in the NT, and how police are coping · 360 with Katie Woolf

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: But joining me in the studio right now is the
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: Deputy Commissioner with the Northern Territory Police.
• 0:05
  Speaker 2: Good morning to you, Michael Murphy.
• 0:07
  Speaker 3: Good morning Katie, and good morning to your listeners.
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: Great have you on the show now. We have had
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: a lot of questions in the last couple of weeks
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: about public drunkenness and people sleeping rough around the city.
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  Speaker 2: I think it's also out in Palmerston as well.
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: Deputy Commissioner, is there an issue for police right now
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: when it comes to public drunkeness and people sleeping rough?
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  Speaker 3: We definitely have a lot more people in Darwen and
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  Speaker 3: Palmerston historically, and you can look at the conditions that
• 0:34
  Speaker 3: COVID has provided with communities exercising caution asking people not
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  Speaker 3: to return to protect their communities. People staying in town
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  Speaker 3: usually would see historically seven hundred plus people across the
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  Speaker 3: Greater Darwen area sleeping rough. We have our bat and
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  Speaker 3: Road facility which can house around four hundred people. At
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  Speaker 3: the moment we're seeing around two thousand people in Darwen
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  Speaker 3: and Palmerston areas sleeping rough, sleeping in on Crown Land,
• 1:02
  Speaker 3: in public spaces. A lot of these people aren't causing
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  Speaker 3: a public nuisance. A small minority of them do drink excessively,
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  Speaker 3: but it's cumulative. It's probably a number of factors need
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  Speaker 3: to be considered about why people are here. I was
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  Speaker 3: only walking around town the other day and my home
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  Speaker 3: country are Underland. Homersburg is the families up from Hermitsburg
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  Speaker 3: and they're here to access liquor. So we've got the
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  Speaker 3: tighter constrictions around the Pali's doing excellent work across Catherine
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  Speaker 3: Tenant and Alice Springs. We've had recently with the Biosecurity zones,
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  Speaker 3: the Director of Licensing implement seven day restrictions for geographical
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  Speaker 3: purchases to limit trafficking of liquor to remote communities. That's
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  Speaker 3: definitely had an impact. Secondary supply is still a concern
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  Speaker 3: for us in and around Darwin, but we have a
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  Speaker 3: number of priorities across the Northern territy at the moment
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  Speaker 3: not limited just of any social behavior, but domestic violence
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  Speaker 3: is unprecedented.
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  Speaker 1: The level still yeah, right, and does that sleeping rough
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  Speaker 1: people being on the street, does that contribute to that?
• 2:01
  Speaker 3: Well, yes it does if they consume alcohol. Alcohol is
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  Speaker 3: an enabler for a lot of our harm. We see
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  Speaker 3: a lot of our frontline staff see alcohol as a
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  Speaker 3: catalyst for harm. If it's not conducive to the harm,
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  Speaker 3: it's actually making people vulnerable to other crime types such
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  Speaker 3: as sexual violence and getting robbed at night or assaulted.
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  Speaker 3: So it is challenging for us. But Northern chach of
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  Speaker 3: Police we work in collaboration with the Council, Palmerston Council.
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  Speaker 3: I met recently. I met with Palmerston Council last night.
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  Speaker 3: We work closely with Darwin Council through the Public Order
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  Speaker 3: and public social networks. We work with a lot of
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  Speaker 3: angios as well across government with territory, Families, education and
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  Speaker 3: health to look at proactive measures we can put about
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  Speaker 3: returning people to country. If we can do that, that's
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  Speaker 3: obviously has to be by consent. But we importantly we
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  Speaker 3: work well, really well with Larrakia.
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  Speaker 1: I mean, like you said, there's seven hundred plus people
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: is usually what you'd see.
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  Speaker 2: Around Darwin at this time of the year.
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  Speaker 1: But you're looking at two two thousand, more than two
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: thousand people at the moment who are around town, who
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  Speaker 1: are here from those other areas, and do you think
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  Speaker 1: in a lot of these cases that they are here
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  Speaker 1: to access alcohol.
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  Speaker 3: Well, it's not just alcohol. I think what we see
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  Speaker 3: as a policing agency is most people come to our
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  Speaker 3: attention once they're involving in that anti social behavior of
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  Speaker 3: crime times. What we need to do better is because
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  Speaker 3: we're twenty four to seven presents on the street, we
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  Speaker 3: ask questions and we want to understand why, because it's
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  Speaker 3: a perception too. Lots of people are sleeping rough and
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  Speaker 3: in community space. It creates a perception whilst they're not
• 3:32
  Speaker 3: engaging in criminal behavior that creates some concern in citizens
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  Speaker 3: that there's going to be fear or so we need
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  Speaker 3: to understand that there's a lot of the COVID displacement
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  Speaker 3: people from communities coming to Darwen not being able to return.
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  Speaker 3: They don't want to return. The community's communicating and we
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  Speaker 3: don't want you to return. The whole weather event too,
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  Speaker 3: with a wet season at the top end and a
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  Speaker 3: lot of weather events in Central Australia has moved people
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  Speaker 3: up here as well.
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  Speaker 1: And so I know obviously it's not the police role
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  Speaker 1: to return peace home or return people to country, but
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  Speaker 1: there needs to be some work across the board, by
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  Speaker 1: the sounds of it, to try and get people back
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  Speaker 1: back to their homes.
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  Speaker 3: Absolutely, and look, that's a collective effort across the Northern
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  Speaker 3: Territory through regional coordination groups at local levels, reuniting people
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  Speaker 3: back in the community. The government obviously is working through
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  Speaker 3: that space at the moment with the challenges around COVID
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  Speaker 3: and making sure and as the message is that the
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  Speaker 3: COVID infection is controlled in a way that won't overwhelm
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  Speaker 3: the health system.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, because that's a real issue at the moment as well,
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: and that's something that we're going to talk about in
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  Speaker 1: just a little while with the Nurses Union now. Also
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  Speaker 1: this week, I know that there's been reports of police
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  Speaker 1: calling for greater support. This is in the mental health space.
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  Speaker 1: An ex police officers spoken to the ABC and called
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  Speaker 1: for a public inquiry, similar to a recent Royal commission
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  Speaker 1: which looked into Defense Force veterans suicides. There is no
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  Speaker 1: doubt that policing's an incredibly tough job and I guess
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  Speaker 1: I'm keen to find out firstly, is there enough support
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  Speaker 1: for our police officers who are suffering from mental health issues.
• 5:03
  Speaker 3: Well, I think it's quite a challenging environment. We do
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  Speaker 3: have support mechanisms in place in our police's agency. We've
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  Speaker 3: got sixteen hundred officers who do a great job. They
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  Speaker 3: do a tough job. They see things people don't want
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  Speaker 3: to see. They hear things people don't want to hear.
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  Speaker 3: Not usually, they see the worst side of community often
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  Speaker 3: and it takes a toll on them. And what we
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  Speaker 3: need to do is shake the stigma attached to shame
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  Speaker 3: and a weakness, a perception of weakness and shame attached
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  Speaker 3: to mental health and being able to speak out. And
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  Speaker 3: the officers that have spoken out recently, I commend them,
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  Speaker 3: and I need more of it. I need people to
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  Speaker 3: come forward and make sure that it's okay not to
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  Speaker 3: be okay.
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  Speaker 2: Do you think that a lot?
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  Speaker 1: Do you think that even in this day and age,
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  Speaker 1: within the police force that you've got, You know, you've
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  Speaker 1: got people who who think that there is shame in
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  Speaker 1: speaking out and who maybe belittle others if they do
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  Speaker 1: speak out.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't think it goes as far as belittling.
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  Speaker 3: I think it's a change in culture and basically a
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  Speaker 3: place of safety where people can engage. And we do
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  Speaker 3: see that, we do see some people. We do have
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  Speaker 3: so our organization has lots of line managers, it's very
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  Speaker 3: structured in command and control. But we've got one hundred
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  Speaker 3: and ninety three sergeants. I've got sixty senior sergeants, thirty superintendants,
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  Speaker 3: eight commanders, five assistan commissioners, myself and Deputy Commissioner A small
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  Speaker 3: Page and Commissioner Chalka who care about our people. We
• 6:26
  Speaker 3: care about our people. We've been there, we know what
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  Speaker 3: it feels like to hurt, and we make sure that
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  Speaker 3: they can talk about their problems and access services. We've
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  Speaker 3: got the Health and well Being officers. We've got sixty
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  Speaker 3: peer support offices across the agency, who are places of
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  Speaker 3: safety where people can connect and talk about problems and
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  Speaker 3: get a referral to our clinicians. And if they don't
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  Speaker 3: feel comfortable talking in house to our clinicians, we can
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  Speaker 3: outsource it to psychologists and they can feel safe and
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  Speaker 3: it's confidential.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, because it must be bloody hard in some cases.
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  Speaker 1: Like I know, for me, if I was suffering at work,
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  Speaker 1: probably the last person not want to talk to is
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  Speaker 1: my boss, to be honest, you know, like I'd probably
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  Speaker 1: rather I'd probably feel more comfortable, you know, getting that
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  Speaker 1: outside help.
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  Speaker 3: Absolutely, and I think you know people will find although
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  Speaker 3: you know, we have an open door policy. I'd speak
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  Speaker 3: to our people every day. I just address the recruit squad.
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  Speaker 3: When an officer gets assaulted, and sadly it happens often,
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  Speaker 3: I reach out to them. The Commissioner reaches out to them,
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  Speaker 3: the executive reaches out to them to make sure they're okay.
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  Speaker 3: If I don't want to engage with me, they can
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  Speaker 3: engage with my staff officer, they can speak to their
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  Speaker 3: management team, as long as they speak to someone and
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  Speaker 3: we offer those support services to them. It's finally important
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  Speaker 3: that we change that and educate people that it's okay
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  Speaker 3: to reach out and get those supports.
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  Speaker 1: And you are confident that there is enough in the
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  Speaker 1: way of those support services, or do you think there
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  Speaker 1: should be a public inquiry here to you know, to
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  Speaker 1: really nut it out and get to the bottom of it.
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  Speaker 3: So a report's just been commissioned into review the mental
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  Speaker 3: health and well being of our organization. That's subject to
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  Speaker 3: a finaliation. Now numerous stakeholders. But while we focus on
• 8:03
  Speaker 3: serving officers and we've seen it from three officers this
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  Speaker 3: week speaking publicly, it's about looking after our people who
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  Speaker 3: leave the police force. There are retired police officers. The
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  Speaker 3: Retired Police Association the Northern Territory Police Association are really
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  Speaker 3: really strong on this issue too, and they should be.
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  Speaker 3: So what we see is retired police officers who firmly
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  Speaker 3: identify as being policed till the day they die. I've
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  Speaker 3: been in pallative care with police officers who know and
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  Speaker 3: respect and love their job when they're passing away. So
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  Speaker 3: it's about providing that support to our people and the
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  Speaker 3: job and the service and respecting what they've done for
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  Speaker 3: community for sometimes forty plus years.
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  Speaker 1: Well, look, it is an issue which no doubt we'll
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  Speaker 1: talk more about. We might try and get the Association
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  Speaker 1: on about it at some point. I want to just
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  Speaker 1: take you to an issue which does continue to concern
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  Speaker 1: a lot of Territorians and that's youth crime. We know
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  Speaker 1: last week obviously police charge two male youths in relation
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  Speaker 1: to an unlawful entry and also a stolen vehicle in Palmerston. Now,
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  Speaker 1: in this incident, it got a lot of people pretty
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  Speaker 1: concerned and a lot of people talking. It happened at
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  Speaker 1: about two o'clock in the morning on the fifth of February.
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  Speaker 1: We now know that a twelve year old and three
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  Speaker 1: unidentified co offenders had allegedly unlawfully entered a property in
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  Speaker 1: Molden and stole the keys to Amitsubishi Triton. The vehicle
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  Speaker 1: was then observed driving dangerously before crashing in Milner the
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  Speaker 1: same day. A ten year old was later identified as
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  Speaker 1: a suspect in that stolen vehicle. There is no doubt
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  Speaker 1: that this is an incredibly dangerous situation for these kids
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  Speaker 1: to be in, but also an incredibly dangerous situation for
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  Speaker 1: everyone on the roads.
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  Speaker 2: Are these kids getting younger?
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  Speaker 3: We are dealing with children as young as ten who
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  Speaker 3: are offending install a motor vehicles and breaking the people's houses.
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  Speaker 3: So what we're seeing is breaking into the largest asset
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  Speaker 3: people are going to own to steal the second largest
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  Speaker 3: asset they own. So a lot of the unlawf lunch
• 9:57
  Speaker 3: who we see accessing motive egles, the motive vehicles then
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  Speaker 3: used in a group think where they think it's all
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  Speaker 3: right as young males or sometimes females. And we saw
• 10:06
  Speaker 3: as recently as Cans on Valentine's Day, a mixture of
• 10:10
  Speaker 3: young males and females who stole the car and crash
• 10:13
  Speaker 3: that car and killing a passenger, a fourteen year old passenger.
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  Speaker 3: It's very sad and it impacts the community, but it
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  Speaker 3: is very risky behavior. They don't see it as risky behavior.
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  Speaker 3: They see it as fun, they see it as challenging.
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  Speaker 3: They want to go police into the shoots. We have
• 10:28
  Speaker 3: to risk assess the danger to community and what actions
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  Speaker 3: we take. That car that was stolen from Palmerston crashed
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  Speaker 3: in Milna, there was a number of use in there.
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  Speaker 3: As you said, the twelve and the ten year old
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  Speaker 3: have been identified and dealt with either through the diversion
• 10:43
  Speaker 3: of the criminal justice system. But youth offending is a
• 10:46
  Speaker 3: priority for us, and majority of youth are engaging in
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  Speaker 3: property crime, breaking the people's houses, stealing their cars and
• 10:53
  Speaker 3: then causing trouble in vehicles through purshoots or other crime types,
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  Speaker 3: and that's very risky behindha, they're not well developed minds.
• 11:02
  Speaker 3: They're engaging in behaviors they're dangerous. They don't understand the
• 11:05
  Speaker 3: enormity of it. But again that's about education and the
• 11:09
  Speaker 3: work we do across government with territory, families and education
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  Speaker 3: to make sure people are doing the right thing, understand
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  Speaker 3: the harmful behaviors. And while we see youth crime, it's
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  Speaker 3: the Perido principle where a minority of kids are reoffending constantly.
• 11:24
  Speaker 3: We see the youth detention facilities are full because of
• 11:27
  Speaker 3: the youth reforms that we're introduced, so that's taken away
• 11:30
  Speaker 3: a lot of the recidibus defenders off the street. We
• 11:33
  Speaker 3: see people we haven't identified, haven't offended previously, coming to
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  Speaker 3: our attention. We need to understand that better and make
• 11:40
  Speaker 3: sure they're engaged. A lot of the kids aren't attending education,
• 11:44
  Speaker 3: so they need to basically, and it comes down to boredom,
• 11:46
  Speaker 3: and they've got the group think and a lot of
• 11:48
  Speaker 3: the times and I've touched those things on this earlier.
• 11:51
  Speaker 3: Kids leave the home because there's domestic violence. So home
• 11:54
  Speaker 3: is in a safe place, it's overcrowded, there's domestic violence,
• 11:58
  Speaker 3: so they get out of the home to go enter
• 12:00
  Speaker 3: a public space with other people to engage in harmful behaviors.
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: What do we do here?
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: And I know that there's no sort of really easy answer.
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: We all understand that.
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: But it does certainly seem as though the police are
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: going out they are apprehending these young people. In some instances,
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: like you said, as young as ten years old.
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: They're being apprehended, being arrested.
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: In some cases they're winding up then in don Dale,
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: but it continues to be an issue. So is there
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: enough support in place? Is there enough programs in place
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: for some of those families? And I know that obviously
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: you're with the police, not those support services, but is
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: there enough there to really try and make some inroads
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: in this space.
• 12:39
  Speaker 3: We have a vest in interest. Although it's not our space,
• 12:42
  Speaker 3: we actually own the diversion area of the Act, so
• 12:46
  Speaker 3: we have a vested interest in seeing children succeed. And
• 12:49
  Speaker 3: I think the victim offender conferences is a pretty powerful
• 12:53
  Speaker 3: way to understand impacts and harm. There are a number
• 12:57
  Speaker 3: of pathways that are controlled by other agencies where you
• 13:00
  Speaker 3: invest in, but it's about the youth making the conscious
• 13:03
  Speaker 3: decision to involve themselves in it. And it comes down
• 13:05
  Speaker 3: the family responsibily to and that leadership from and traditional owners.
• 13:09
  Speaker 3: They are a key player in this and they do
• 13:11
  Speaker 3: step up and try and influence. It's connection to culture
• 13:14
  Speaker 3: and it goes back to when COVID virtually came in
• 13:18
  Speaker 3: in twenty twenty. We saw a connection back to culture
• 13:21
  Speaker 3: and crime rates drop. We saw halfule behaviors minimize and
• 13:25
  Speaker 3: kids go back to culture, song lines and fishing, you know,
• 13:29
  Speaker 3: the basics that stop boredom and stop halful behaviors. So
• 13:34
  Speaker 3: there are obviously different ways of thinking, but there's lots
• 13:36
  Speaker 3: of players that can step up and help us achieve
• 13:38
  Speaker 3: what we need to achieve to stop kids engaging in
• 13:41
  Speaker 3: criminal behavior.
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: Well, Deputy Police Commissioner of Operations and Road Safety, Michael Murphy,
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: we always appreciate your time.
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: Thank you very much for coming in this morning.
• 13:49
  Speaker 3: Thanks Katie, thank you