Latest / Broken Record with Rick Rubin, Malcolm Gladwell, Bruce Headlam and Justin Richmond / Interpol's Daniel Kessler

Transcript

Interpol's Daniel Kessler · Broken Record with Rick Rubin, Malcolm Gladwell, Bruce Headlam and Justin Richmond

• 0:15
  Speaker 1: Pushkin. Daniel Kessler grew up between London, Paris and DC,
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: listening to his older brother's early UK punk and rock records.
• 0:26
  Speaker 2: He picked up guitar.
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: As a teenager the same day he quit skateboarding, and
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: after moving to New York in the late nineties, set
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: out to find musicians serious enough to start a band.
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: Fast forward more than two decades later, Kessler remains the
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: musical architect of the band Interpol, right in the foundation
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: of the band's songs, often alone on a classical guitar
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: before bringing them to his bandmates. The band has now
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: made eight albums together, and their latest Demera Waste a Ton,
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: is their first record made in New York in more
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: than a decade. On today's episode, Lea Rose talks with
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: Daniel Kesler about making the new album, the early days
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: when Interpol played to almost nobody, a chance encounter with
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: David Bowie before his show at Hammersteen Ballroom, in the
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: creative routines, guitar, coffee and films that have kept him
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: writing for nearly three gades. This is broken record, real musicians,
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: real conversations. Here's Lea Rhodes with Daniel Kessler.
• 1:25
  Speaker 3: I'm curious about the title of the new album, This
• 1:29
  Speaker 3: Mirror Waste a Ton. It reminds me of the Public
• 1:32
  Speaker 3: Enemy album The suziets a Ton. Does it have anything
• 1:35
  Speaker 3: to do with that or is that just coincidence?
• 1:37
  Speaker 2: Oh? Man, that's amazing.
• 1:40
  Speaker 4: I wish I could say firmative on that one, but
• 1:43
  Speaker 4: I don't think it does. I well, ask all about
• 1:46
  Speaker 4: that in case it was somehow. You know, he really
• 1:48
  Speaker 4: thinks of everything, and he's a massive hip hop fan,
• 1:51
  Speaker 4: so it'd be amazing if that was actually some sort
• 1:52
  Speaker 4: of subtext or something like that, or some conscious sort
• 1:55
  Speaker 4: of decision. But I don't think so, because we you know,
• 1:57
  Speaker 4: we cycled through several options before we landed on that one,
• 2:01
  Speaker 4: and as soon as that one became a candidate or
• 2:03
  Speaker 4: you know, just an idea, I think right there and
• 2:06
  Speaker 4: then I was.
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: I was sold right away. I was like, oh, not
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: really have this one? I was.
• 2:10
  Speaker 4: I was so in love with it. I really felt
• 2:12
  Speaker 4: like on my listeners, really like what we've we've been
• 2:14
  Speaker 4: going through this journey just to arrive at this title.
• 2:16
  Speaker 3: So tell me the story of how this album started
• 2:20
  Speaker 3: and how it came together and just how logistically you
• 2:23
  Speaker 3: all work together at this point, because I think you're
• 2:26
  Speaker 3: living in different countries, right.
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: We are. I mean, you know, you know both Paul
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: and I.
• 2:33
  Speaker 4: Paul is predominatly in Berlin, still is a place in
• 2:36
  Speaker 4: New York, and I spent my time between Barcelona and
• 2:38
  Speaker 4: New York. Sam still in the States, and Brad the
• 2:41
  Speaker 4: who played based on this record is in New York.
• 2:44
  Speaker 4: But you know, we're still like a New York band,
• 2:46
  Speaker 4: and we predominantly converge in New York. To Wright, it's
• 2:49
  Speaker 4: been a miss since we had recorded New York until
• 2:51
  Speaker 4: this our latest record, So that was sort of a
• 2:54
  Speaker 4: wonderful homecoming and something great to do. And it's kind
• 2:56
  Speaker 4: of crazy that it's been ten years. But so essentially,
• 3:00
  Speaker 4: usually the songs begin with me. I'll just write at
• 3:04
  Speaker 4: home on a classical guitar or sometimes on the piano
• 3:07
  Speaker 4: as well, and then we'll get together and then we'll
• 3:10
  Speaker 4: make them into interpol pieces of music together and so forth.
• 3:14
  Speaker 4: So actually, the first time that we did get together
• 3:18
  Speaker 4: in such capacity was really when we had already decided
• 3:20
  Speaker 4: that we wanted to work with Andrew Wyatt, the producer
• 3:24
  Speaker 4: who was a longtime friend to most of us separately,
• 3:28
  Speaker 4: and Paul had worked with him on a track that
• 3:32
  Speaker 4: he did with the on the record that he released
• 3:34
  Speaker 4: with Rizzo, and he had a great experience, so he
• 3:38
  Speaker 4: was very positive about that. He's such an incredible musician
• 3:41
  Speaker 4: and obviously like really accomplished professionally, and I knew that
• 3:45
  Speaker 4: he was also like just great with get a great year,
• 3:49
  Speaker 4: great with keyboards, with a great pianist, great with arrangements
• 3:54
  Speaker 4: and things like that, which was really.
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: Intriguing to me and then for me, so I guess
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: the thing that really attracted.
• 3:58
  Speaker 4: Me to working with him was like what it will
• 4:00
  Speaker 4: bring atmospherically and keyboards and orchestrations. That was like a
• 4:03
  Speaker 4: really attractive point. I was hoping that he would jump
• 4:06
  Speaker 4: on board, and he did so. April twenty twenty five
• 4:09
  Speaker 4: was really the real beginning and which kind of, you know,
• 4:12
  Speaker 4: we were off of the racist pretty quickly once. At
• 4:14
  Speaker 4: that time, his studio was in the basement of his
• 4:16
  Speaker 4: house in New York, and we just went there and
• 4:18
  Speaker 4: we laid the ground. The first song that we worked
• 4:21
  Speaker 4: on was Iron City, and it went pretty far, pretty deep,
• 4:25
  Speaker 4: thank you, and it's it felt very different right from
• 4:28
  Speaker 4: like day one with him there already felt like, wow,
• 4:31
  Speaker 4: this is a very different vibe and feeling I wrote
• 4:34
  Speaker 4: on the piano in that arrangement, but then Andrews started
• 4:37
  Speaker 4: doing the things that Andrews just did to the track
• 4:39
  Speaker 4: atmospherically and bye wise, and then Paul right away had them.
• 4:43
  Speaker 4: I think he had the course like like within day
• 4:45
  Speaker 4: one and day two with those lyrics of Iron City
• 4:47
  Speaker 4: and the melody. So it's when when things are going
• 4:49
  Speaker 4: like that, I think, you know, you're like in a
• 4:51
  Speaker 4: good place and things feel very positive and then leaning Yeah,
• 4:55
  Speaker 4: and then in the ensuing days we started working on
• 4:57
  Speaker 4: what would become Wings on Fire, so rites of rained
• 5:00
  Speaker 4: here and then actually the last track on the record, Sudden,
• 5:05
  Speaker 4: which I recorded in Andrews's house on his piano in
• 5:07
  Speaker 4: his living room, and then it was is great because
• 5:09
  Speaker 4: it's like it's a residential house and at the end
• 5:12
  Speaker 4: it was at dusk you could hear all these birds
• 5:15
  Speaker 4: from street just doing their song. And it's at the
• 5:18
  Speaker 4: very end of if you listen closely, at the end
• 5:19
  Speaker 4: of the track, you can hear these bursts and yeah,
• 5:23
  Speaker 4: it's like a nice sort of like little natural ambiance
• 5:25
  Speaker 4: and something that you want to make sure preserves are
• 5:27
  Speaker 4: up the recording process, and it doesn't get lost.
• 5:30
  Speaker 3: I've heard you talk about the record and say that
• 5:32
  Speaker 3: there's some things, some new sounds you wanted to bring in,
• 5:35
  Speaker 3: and aesthetically it's a little bit different than past Interpol albums.
• 5:40
  Speaker 3: Did you have a moment where you sort of like
• 5:43
  Speaker 3: thought back over the catalog or listen to old recordings
• 5:47
  Speaker 3: and consciously thought like, these are the things I want
• 5:50
  Speaker 3: to bring in or was that a conversation with Andrew
• 5:53
  Speaker 3: or did that sort of just evolve naturally.
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: I think it really evolves naturally.
• 5:58
  Speaker 4: I'm personally I'm best and I don't think conceptually too
• 6:02
  Speaker 4: much about what I want to do, or I think
• 6:05
  Speaker 4: when we don't discuss I mean maybe.
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: I'm a little bit of a you know, I.
• 6:10
  Speaker 4: Stick clear in my old way to something, but like
• 6:12
  Speaker 4: I didn't, you know, we don't start talking about grandiose
• 6:15
  Speaker 4: ideas or concepsual ideas rather than just do them. I
• 6:17
  Speaker 4: love and we're just doing things, you know, and and
• 6:20
  Speaker 4: if evolution naturally takes this course, the better.
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: But you know, when it's more of like a conceptual conversation,
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: I find.
• 6:27
  Speaker 4: Those are harder to lift off versus the ones that
• 6:29
  Speaker 4: we're actually just doing it. And I think we're kind
• 6:31
  Speaker 4: of good at just mixing it up. And we're very
• 6:33
  Speaker 4: different people, so we are mixing together. Usually the results
• 6:36
  Speaker 4: can kind of go in different ways for me as
• 6:39
  Speaker 4: far as like even just like the you know, the onset.
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: Of just writing.
• 6:43
  Speaker 4: I was pretty excited about some of the stuff that
• 6:44
  Speaker 4: I was working on. I've written a little bit more
• 6:46
  Speaker 4: previously on the piano, but it's not something I do
• 6:48
  Speaker 4: all the time. So the fact that there's already three
• 6:50
  Speaker 4: songs that felt very different for us, and then there's
• 6:54
  Speaker 4: some songs as I was writing them, I felt like
• 6:56
  Speaker 4: maybe the progression I kind of pushed myself a little
• 6:59
  Speaker 4: bit further to maybe reinvent them, Like I felt like
• 7:01
  Speaker 4: they're going down too much of a familiar road. So
• 7:04
  Speaker 4: then I kind of reworked that and consequently came out
• 7:07
  Speaker 4: with like new results, whether it was like weird sort
• 7:10
  Speaker 4: of rhythm, sort of signatures or vibes, Like there's a
• 7:13
  Speaker 4: few reinventions of the songs I can think of, just
• 7:16
  Speaker 4: kind of found a different like avenue for them, you know.
• 7:19
  Speaker 3: Cool. How have you noticed that your own personal musical
• 7:23
  Speaker 3: tastes have changed since you know, starting the band. It's
• 7:27
  Speaker 3: been like over thirty years.
• 7:29
  Speaker 4: Right, Yeah, follow after that kind of sentence.
• 7:35
  Speaker 3: You know, it's so crazy, but like, how have you
• 7:39
  Speaker 3: seen like your own personal taste change, and how have
• 7:43
  Speaker 3: you seen like Paul's taste change, And how has that
• 7:46
  Speaker 3: influenced the music that you guys make together? And if
• 7:50
  Speaker 3: those are sort of like divergent paths, like you said,
• 7:53
  Speaker 3: everybody in the band is very different. Is it hard
• 7:56
  Speaker 3: to settle into one sound?
• 7:59
  Speaker 4: I mean, I mean maybe it is, but I think
• 8:02
  Speaker 4: that's good. And I think it's something that I don't
• 8:05
  Speaker 4: ever pay that much mind to whether you know, like
• 8:08
  Speaker 4: a what kind of sound that might be, or whether
• 8:11
  Speaker 4: this fits or whatnot. You know, if it feels good,
• 8:13
  Speaker 4: it feels good. And I think we've always just kind
• 8:15
  Speaker 4: of abided by that. You know, it's like Paul's influences.
• 8:18
  Speaker 4: We have some overlap from you know, the early conversations
• 8:21
  Speaker 4: when I first met him, you know, there were some
• 8:23
  Speaker 4: overlaps and so forth.
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: But he's always been like, you know, he's really really
• 8:25
  Speaker 2: in the hip hop and masterdom when what he listens
• 8:27
  Speaker 2: to the most.
• 8:28
  Speaker 4: And that's been consistent since I've known him, and I
• 8:31
  Speaker 4: probably listen less of hip hop than he doesn't. The
• 8:33
  Speaker 4: great admiration for it. I just don't keep up on
• 8:36
  Speaker 4: what's happening and so forth. He really keeps up on it.
• 8:38
  Speaker 4: But you know, the over our history, there's been like
• 8:40
  Speaker 4: bands that we traded or you know, like in the
• 8:43
  Speaker 4: early days, I was working a record label and the
• 8:46
  Speaker 4: record label is putting out the first mob Wie records
• 8:48
  Speaker 4: and I got crazy for them, and I remember inducing
• 8:50
  Speaker 4: it to Paul and we got to see some of
• 8:52
  Speaker 4: their early concerts and become friends and all those kind
• 8:55
  Speaker 4: of like moments. So that these were or like getting
• 8:57
  Speaker 4: really in the can in the early days and doing
• 9:00
  Speaker 4: the same thing as a band. You know, It's more
• 9:02
  Speaker 4: I think we've always had like an openness for whatever
• 9:04
  Speaker 4: feels good and whatever we like we like and we
• 9:06
  Speaker 4: don't really think about how that fits as to technology
• 9:09
  Speaker 4: and just the music world has changed so much from
• 9:12
  Speaker 4: going to record stores and just really trusting, you know,
• 9:14
  Speaker 4: when we started to go like other music or in
• 9:17
  Speaker 4: New York City like the store yeah Mondo Kims also
• 9:21
  Speaker 4: and so forth, and then that you trust the buyer
• 9:23
  Speaker 4: there or something like that, and it might have been
• 9:26
  Speaker 4: a nice time.
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: Brad who plays bass Finer Pol was a buyer Mondo Kims.
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: But you know, what I mean.
• 9:31
  Speaker 3: They'd be like, oh, yeah, job, you could have had
• 9:33
  Speaker 3: back then.
• 9:34
  Speaker 4: You know what I mean, you know, and then they
• 9:35
  Speaker 4: would have like a little like placard that would say
• 9:38
  Speaker 4: check out this saying blah blah blah blah.
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: And then you trust them and if you've won the
• 9:41
  Speaker 2: clerks there would be like, oh, yeah, you really check
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: this out. I think you'd like this. Then you go home.
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: You develop a relationship with a record.
• 9:47
  Speaker 4: Maybe at first you didn't love it, but then by
• 9:49
  Speaker 4: listening five I should say you loved it, And I
• 9:52
  Speaker 4: think we're in a very different nation of that. Maybe
• 9:53
  Speaker 4: for me, I find a little overwhelming at times, so
• 9:56
  Speaker 4: I don't come across music as much as like in
• 9:59
  Speaker 4: that sort of pure format, which I think really suits me.
• 10:01
  Speaker 4: So I don't want to have done a great job
• 10:03
  Speaker 4: of like always finding new things they find me or
• 10:05
  Speaker 4: I have friends who like circulate it. But I guess
• 10:08
  Speaker 4: at the same time, like creativity, I don't find I
• 10:12
  Speaker 4: needed to create. I kind of just love writing songs still,
• 10:15
  Speaker 4: and that's like kind of crazy that I do enjoy
• 10:18
  Speaker 4: as much now as I did when I was like
• 10:20
  Speaker 4: certainly when the band started, but even as a teenager,
• 10:22
  Speaker 4: it's really something I'd love to do.
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: And when you're touring.
• 10:25
  Speaker 4: As much as we do, I don't I don't get
• 10:27
  Speaker 4: to do it all on the on the roads. When
• 10:28
  Speaker 4: I'm at home finally like some space. It's like it's
• 10:31
  Speaker 4: probably my favorite thing to do is pick up my
• 10:33
  Speaker 4: class and guitar and just try to you know, start
• 10:35
  Speaker 4: my day off that way. And when you come across
• 10:37
  Speaker 4: something new that really you know, you're into and you
• 10:39
  Speaker 4: want to develop, it's still like a feeling that I
• 10:41
  Speaker 4: can relate to being a teenager and coming up with that's,
• 10:44
  Speaker 4: you know, and it's something that hasn't really changed.
• 10:46
  Speaker 3: That is so crazy, and what a gift that you're
• 10:49
  Speaker 3: still into it, that it still brings you joy or
• 10:51
  Speaker 3: it provides some sort of outlet for you. That's insane totally.
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: And I don't take that for granted because there's very
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: few things I think in.
• 10:57
  Speaker 4: Life that you can sort of correlate to your teenage
• 11:00
  Speaker 4: you know, years as far as that joy and it
• 11:02
  Speaker 4: would still have that purity to it and it still
• 11:04
  Speaker 4: would make as much sense. But it really does, and
• 11:07
  Speaker 4: and these things can disappear, you can, you know, obviously,
• 11:09
  Speaker 4: like many other elements in your lives change of it. Yeah,
• 11:12
  Speaker 4: over that time, you know, and so do brand the
• 11:14
  Speaker 4: sand will feel like you sti't relate to that sort
• 11:16
  Speaker 4: of feeling where you don't you don't you don't yearn
• 11:19
  Speaker 4: for it, or you just it's like the well feels dry.
• 11:21
  Speaker 4: But it's a I really do feel like I really
• 11:23
  Speaker 4: get I started every single day when I'm not on
• 11:26
  Speaker 4: the road, just playing guitar, you know, drinking coffee and
• 11:29
  Speaker 4: watching a film. That's really, Oh, that's the best. It's
• 11:32
  Speaker 4: the best thing. Even if I feel like catching an
• 11:34
  Speaker 4: early morning flight, I will still like allocate time for
• 11:37
  Speaker 4: at least like thirty.
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: Minutes to do this.
• 11:39
  Speaker 4: It's really it's kind of insane, but I really just
• 11:41
  Speaker 4: enjoy so much and it centers me, you know.
• 11:44
  Speaker 3: So you wake up, you get your coffee, you play
• 11:47
  Speaker 3: the guitar, and you watch a movie at the same time.
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: I do forever.
• 11:53
  Speaker 3: What do you focus more on the movie? Are you
• 11:55
  Speaker 3: focused on the guitar?
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: I really do both.
• 11:58
  Speaker 4: It's really like it's I think the movie is more
• 12:01
  Speaker 4: there to distract me from like the the weight of
• 12:05
  Speaker 4: trying to write something or trying to do something. It's
• 12:07
  Speaker 4: just more and it's also like visual stimulation and something yeah,
• 12:11
  Speaker 4: and so I think the combination of the two sort
• 12:14
  Speaker 4: of you know, and I started new link. Sometimes I'll
• 12:17
  Speaker 4: just be newling on something that I've been working on,
• 12:19
  Speaker 4: seeing if there's like a new passage or like a
• 12:21
  Speaker 4: new way, like oh, a new park or something like that.
• 12:24
  Speaker 4: And then sometimes quite more times than not, I'll just realize.
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: I'm just watching a movie and playing guitar, and that's all.
• 12:28
  Speaker 4: I'll be like, all right, guys, like, you know, get
• 12:30
  Speaker 4: off your day and ever fishing tomorrow and seeing something
• 12:33
  Speaker 4: else happens.
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: But like it's it's still something I really enjoy doing.
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: But then once in a while, it's like a nice life.
• 12:38
  Speaker 3: I like that.
• 12:39
  Speaker 2: It's amazing. It's amazing to me.
• 12:40
  Speaker 4: It's like the luxury of not looking in time in
• 12:42
  Speaker 4: the morning is something that I think I really longed
• 12:44
  Speaker 4: for when I was working jobs, you know, like I
• 12:47
  Speaker 4: really hope that one day I can sort of take
• 12:49
  Speaker 4: the clock off and just play, you know, work on
• 12:52
  Speaker 4: music in the mornings and not have to worry about
• 12:53
  Speaker 4: being there. And I can vividly remember feeling that way
• 12:57
  Speaker 4: while working jobs, that I just really want to be
• 12:59
  Speaker 4: doing this. So it's it's not a loss to me
• 13:00
  Speaker 4: that this is a real luxury they get to have
• 13:02
  Speaker 4: in my life.
• 13:04
  Speaker 3: So tell me about working jobs. Was this all before
• 13:06
  Speaker 3: the band started or did you have you didn't have
• 13:09
  Speaker 3: any sort of jobs like while Interpol was together.
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: Right, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.
• 13:14
  Speaker 4: I started working right like the day after I graduated
• 13:18
  Speaker 4: from university. I started working record labels, basically because I
• 13:22
  Speaker 4: just I thought the autore really against me that I
• 13:25
  Speaker 4: get to play music in my life, and I just
• 13:27
  Speaker 4: joined the percentage, you know.
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: Of the likelihood.
• 13:31
  Speaker 4: So I just sort of well thought of like, well,
• 13:33
  Speaker 4: if I have to work, I kind of want to
• 13:34
  Speaker 4: work around, you know, music at the very least, and
• 13:37
  Speaker 4: around music that I was passionate about that I liked.
• 13:39
  Speaker 4: So if I have to give my time to to
• 13:41
  Speaker 4: someone else into something else, I wanted to be around
• 13:43
  Speaker 4: I wanted.
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: I wanted to understand why, you know. And so I
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: started working.
• 13:47
  Speaker 4: My first real job was working this record company called
• 13:50
  Speaker 4: jet Set, and it was a very small record company
• 13:53
  Speaker 4: and so there was like a lot of responsibility, which
• 13:55
  Speaker 4: is great.
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: I learned so much.
• 13:56
  Speaker 4: I did like all this dissitbution marketing and retail stuff
• 13:59
  Speaker 4: and even like accounts receivable, like I did a whole
• 14:03
  Speaker 4: bunch of I did, you know.
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: But it was like, really, I learned so much.
• 14:06
  Speaker 4: So it was like, I mean, no money, like negative money,
• 14:08
  Speaker 4: but it was such a yeah.
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: I was like a great education in itself, and I
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: just learned, you know.
• 14:13
  Speaker 4: Yeah, And then from there I just worked a different
• 14:15
  Speaker 4: places along the way.
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: My last job was working at Domino Records.
• 14:19
  Speaker 4: And while I was working there as when you know,
• 14:21
  Speaker 4: it's like towards even right before we started working on
• 14:24
  Speaker 4: recording Tone of the Bride Lights, I was still working
• 14:27
  Speaker 4: at Domino.
• 14:28
  Speaker 3: So was it a big deal, like when you quit
• 14:30
  Speaker 3: the job, was that a big deal? Or was it
• 14:33
  Speaker 3: sort of like, I mean to try this out and
• 14:35
  Speaker 3: I can always go back.
• 14:37
  Speaker 4: I mean, you know, to me, my dream was always
• 14:40
  Speaker 4: just to get to make a record. It was really
• 14:42
  Speaker 4: like I it was, so it didn't come that easily.
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: You know.
• 14:45
  Speaker 4: We were we played off first show I think in
• 14:47
  Speaker 4: March nineteen ninety eight.
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: I think we didn't sign really.
• 14:51
  Speaker 4: To our first record label deal until something like the
• 14:55
  Speaker 4: fall of two thousand and one. And in that time,
• 14:57
  Speaker 4: we played, you know, we made several demos, We played
• 15:00
  Speaker 4: so many shows, and we didn't really change esthetically or
• 15:02
  Speaker 4: sound wise, songs that are very first sema that we
• 15:05
  Speaker 4: made in the summer of nineth ninety eight, or go
• 15:09
  Speaker 4: on our very first record, like our very first single
• 15:12
  Speaker 4: was on the very first seme of this PDA role
• 15:15
  Speaker 4: and one other song, but you know, PDA Rowland or
• 15:18
  Speaker 4: on our first record in PDA was our very first single. Granted,
• 15:21
  Speaker 4: maybe we became better at playing those songs, but we
• 15:23
  Speaker 4: already had a sense of who we were and what
• 15:25
  Speaker 4: we were doing, and that's it's just the timing maybe
• 15:28
  Speaker 4: wasn't right or just not that much interest. So so
• 15:32
  Speaker 4: to me, I just kept like, you know, all these
• 15:34
  Speaker 4: doors would be shut in our faces sort of speak,
• 15:36
  Speaker 4: and no one was showing any interest, and you keep
• 15:38
  Speaker 4: And I think that's something that really helped me was
• 15:40
  Speaker 4: that having worked at record labels and understanding that record
• 15:44
  Speaker 4: labels only have so much space, like new bands, and
• 15:46
  Speaker 4: they have all these other bands that they keep putting,
• 15:48
  Speaker 4: you know, the season bands that they released records of
• 15:50
  Speaker 4: every few years and so forth, that the slots were
• 15:53
  Speaker 4: just there, weren't that many available, and so we just
• 15:55
  Speaker 4: had to be very patient about it, and I didn't
• 15:57
  Speaker 4: take it too personally. But when we finally were signed
• 16:00
  Speaker 4: and we were able to make, you know, our first record.
• 16:03
  Speaker 4: To me, that was like as far as mine, my
• 16:05
  Speaker 4: aspirations and my dream lench. You know, I didn't really
• 16:08
  Speaker 4: spend four or five years with no one really showing
• 16:11
  Speaker 4: much interest towards your band and being sort of you know,
• 16:14
  Speaker 4: delusional to think all of a sudden that people would
• 16:16
  Speaker 4: actually be into your the outbum that we finally put out.
• 16:19
  Speaker 4: So I was really surprised that people were so receptive
• 16:22
  Speaker 4: to our first record when they upon its release.
• 16:25
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I feel like I would feel very dejected at
• 16:27
  Speaker 3: that point, like Okay, we need to change the sound
• 16:30
  Speaker 3: or we're obviously not doing something right.
• 16:32
  Speaker 4: Well, you know, I mean that this is like I
• 16:35
  Speaker 4: really love making music with these guys sincerely, and to
• 16:39
  Speaker 4: me it was even I mean I felt like not
• 16:41
  Speaker 4: I would never ever ever contemplate changing our sound because
• 16:43
  Speaker 4: I really, to me, it's like, you know, you do
• 16:46
  Speaker 4: this for yourselves, and you do this because you're expressing
• 16:50
  Speaker 4: something that you need to get out and it feels
• 16:51
  Speaker 4: grat in that rehearsal room. And then there was a
• 16:54
  Speaker 4: moment where, you know the thing that I did feel
• 16:56
  Speaker 4: like rejected like by the you know so much or
• 17:00
  Speaker 4: dejected by so much rejections and so forth. But after
• 17:02
  Speaker 4: a while you find, like some I think by going
• 17:04
  Speaker 4: through that process, I think, you know, I found, at
• 17:06
  Speaker 4: least for me, a little bit of an innerp Well,
• 17:09
  Speaker 4: you know, I think I left a rehearsal number one
• 17:11
  Speaker 4: winter day in Willisburg and just being like, I think
• 17:14
  Speaker 4: we're working on something like NYC or something like that
• 17:17
  Speaker 4: for our first record, and I felt it was all
• 17:19
  Speaker 4: such a great feeling to leave a rehearsal where something
• 17:21
  Speaker 4: just happened that you couldn't have predicted, and the song
• 17:23
  Speaker 4: really took this form.
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: And you just sort of had this feeling of like euphoria.
• 17:27
  Speaker 4: And I remember like leaving me like so into it,
• 17:30
  Speaker 4: but then also finding some sort of like inner piece
• 17:32
  Speaker 4: that well, if no one ever hears this, no one ever,
• 17:35
  Speaker 4: you know, seemed to be the path that we're on,
• 17:37
  Speaker 4: it's okay, you know, at least I'm getting something out
• 17:39
  Speaker 4: of this. And so I really did kind of like
• 17:41
  Speaker 4: let myself feel that peace and sort of let go
• 17:44
  Speaker 4: of the things I really can control. Yeah, And also
• 17:47
  Speaker 4: there's also like an inner like side, like something inside
• 17:50
  Speaker 4: of me I think so consciously, I think consciously actually
• 17:53
  Speaker 4: felt like the hardest part was just finding people to
• 17:56
  Speaker 4: start a bandwidth. It was really I think I'd been
• 17:59
  Speaker 4: looking in New York for so long and I just
• 18:00
  Speaker 4: couldn't find people who were maybe like serious about starting
• 18:04
  Speaker 4: a band, or want to commit the time, or or
• 18:07
  Speaker 4: or kindred spirits. And when you know, I finally found
• 18:09
  Speaker 4: these people and I really felt like, well, we're doing
• 18:12
  Speaker 4: something kind of special in this rehearsal room. I just
• 18:14
  Speaker 4: felt like, well, this is actually the hardest part, and
• 18:16
  Speaker 4: staying together is probably the hardest part. You know. I
• 18:18
  Speaker 4: didn't It wasn't like I had faith that something good
• 18:21
  Speaker 4: would come to be, you know, as far as like,
• 18:23
  Speaker 4: you know, being a fan base out there. But I
• 18:25
  Speaker 4: just really felt like, you know, just kind of saying
• 18:27
  Speaker 4: together it was like the most important thing.
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: We'll be back with more from Daniel Kessler after this break.
• 18:36
  Speaker 3: Were there things that you felt like you had to
• 18:39
  Speaker 3: do to sort of like nurture the relationships within the
• 18:42
  Speaker 3: band or was that not even a thought back then?
• 18:44
  Speaker 3: It was just keep working and keep playing together for sure.
• 18:49
  Speaker 4: I mean, you know, I think young men in New
• 18:52
  Speaker 4: York City with no money, you know, like rehearsals are
• 18:56
  Speaker 4: costing money that people don't have everyone's really broke, you're
• 19:01
  Speaker 4: not getting paid very much money from your jobs.
• 19:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, some people maybe.
• 19:06
  Speaker 4: Like were like I didn't never say that wanted to
• 19:08
  Speaker 4: be in a band, you know, you know, I really
• 19:10
  Speaker 4: wanted to be in a band. I really wanted to
• 19:11
  Speaker 4: start a band. But yeah, I really kind of like
• 19:14
  Speaker 4: approached everyone. So when things are not sort of building
• 19:18
  Speaker 4: to some sort of like progression, you know, as far
• 19:21
  Speaker 4: as like well more people coming to some of our shows,
• 19:23
  Speaker 4: or now we have this opportunity to make a record
• 19:25
  Speaker 4: after a while, as the you know, young men with
• 19:28
  Speaker 4: you know, who are very talented in different aspirations, it's
• 19:31
  Speaker 4: it's like they may be like, well, why am I
• 19:32
  Speaker 4: saying all this money for not you know, and yeah,
• 19:36
  Speaker 4: so there. I think there's definitely moments where I could
• 19:38
  Speaker 4: have gone either way, and thankfully, you know, I think
• 19:40
  Speaker 4: we would try to like talk it out. I think
• 19:42
  Speaker 4: I think Papa was subconsciously we knew that we there
• 19:45
  Speaker 4: was some special chemistry that was kind of.
• 19:47
  Speaker 2: Harder to put into wars but difficult to like deny.
• 19:50
  Speaker 4: Once we were playing music, it was really like you
• 19:52
  Speaker 4: could see it and you could feel it.
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: It was palpable.
• 19:55
  Speaker 3: Was there a moment when you sort of felt like, Okay,
• 19:59
  Speaker 3: this is going to work. We're going to start actually
• 20:01
  Speaker 3: making money from this, this is going to grow.
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: Ah.
• 20:07
  Speaker 4: It just makes me laugh because I remember, like Carlos
• 20:09
  Speaker 4: is also be like, can equit my job?
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: Can equip my job, And it became sort of like
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: an inside joke. You just say this forever. I don't know,
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: and I know you remember what you did put his job.
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: I don't know if it was like actually when we
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: were doing a very first US tour or something, but
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: it was it was along those lines. We were still
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: on a van and everything like that, but it was
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: I didn't know if, like, you know, working is an
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: interesting word.
• 20:29
  Speaker 4: I don't know if you ever like kind of know that,
• 20:31
  Speaker 4: but those we're in it for this moment at the
• 20:34
  Speaker 4: very least, you know, And then it just became sort
• 20:36
  Speaker 4: of like that very first US tour in a van.
• 20:39
  Speaker 4: You know, I think you did two nights at the
• 20:41
  Speaker 4: Troubadour in la and and those sold out, and and
• 20:44
  Speaker 4: you know, you're seeing things. Then you come back the
• 20:46
  Speaker 4: next time and you're playing the next size up and
• 20:48
  Speaker 4: so forth, and now you know you can see like
• 20:50
  Speaker 4: a progression, and I think that was something helpful for
• 20:53
  Speaker 4: us to see that there's like something building and so forth.
• 20:56
  Speaker 4: And then you see like minded spirits at our shows
• 20:58
  Speaker 4: and hanging out with them, and I think you kind
• 21:01
  Speaker 4: of just got, you know, really into it and and
• 21:05
  Speaker 4: uh yeah, and just like touring and traveling and just exploring.
• 21:09
  Speaker 3: And then what about any early rock star moments where
• 21:12
  Speaker 3: you were maybe backstage with people or people that you
• 21:15
  Speaker 3: really admired, Like do you remember like anything that you
• 21:19
  Speaker 3: were like WHOA like pinch me moments?
• 21:21
  Speaker 4: I mean, the best one for sure for me, And
• 21:24
  Speaker 4: I would imagine first, I mean, I can't speak for
• 21:26
  Speaker 4: my badness, but it was we were playing early on
• 21:30
  Speaker 4: It might have been at the very end of our
• 21:33
  Speaker 4: touring on on Bright Lights, at the very beginning of
• 21:36
  Speaker 4: touring on on Antics. So I have a two thousand
• 21:37
  Speaker 4: and three or two thousand and four, but we were, uh,
• 21:41
  Speaker 4: we had two nights at the Hammerston Ballroom and and
• 21:45
  Speaker 4: it was very it was like a very last show
• 21:47
  Speaker 4: of a of a North American tour and so we
• 21:50
  Speaker 4: got you know, you're so excited to go it like
• 21:52
  Speaker 4: hard partying days it too. Plus it's like you're so
• 21:55
  Speaker 4: happy to be home. So that first night we went
• 21:58
  Speaker 4: out and went out a little too hard.
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: We're too happy to be home.
• 22:02
  Speaker 4: And so the backstage scene before the night of like
• 22:06
  Speaker 4: the second show, everyone.
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: Was like just su pleated.
• 22:08
  Speaker 4: It just didn't look like you're about to go play,
• 22:10
  Speaker 4: you know, a rock show where just everyone was like
• 22:12
  Speaker 4: it was like lethargic energy everywhere. And then we had
• 22:16
  Speaker 4: like a lovely Scottish tour manager at that time, Pero.
• 22:20
  Speaker 4: His name is Stevie Dreads and he's amazing, and and
• 22:24
  Speaker 4: you just see Stevie's energy goes towards a door where
• 22:27
  Speaker 4: it's like, I guess the presence was trying to enter it,
• 22:29
  Speaker 4: and see he goes, sorry, mate, you can't come in,
• 22:32
  Speaker 4: and then you.
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: Just hear you don't see the person, you just here,
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: but I'm David Bowie.
• 22:37
  Speaker 4: And then you just see like Stevie Dreads just move
• 22:40
  Speaker 4: like lather lays if he's like a door like open,
• 22:42
  Speaker 4: sesame and sad, and he just gets out of the way.
• 22:45
  Speaker 4: And then David Bowie comes in and you know he's
• 22:47
  Speaker 4: like super affable, really kind, saying really nice things. It
• 22:50
  Speaker 4: was actually I guess after our first record. He's talking
• 22:52
  Speaker 4: about the first record and he's doing really warm, and
• 22:55
  Speaker 4: he wants to say hello before the show because he
• 22:58
  Speaker 4: had a young job at home and he wanted to
• 23:00
  Speaker 4: get home before the end of the show or you
• 23:02
  Speaker 4: would be able to say hello after it, and said
• 23:04
  Speaker 4: we were aflord, you know, we were just so like
• 23:06
  Speaker 4: we're just gondn't I remember Carlos was in the bathroom
• 23:08
  Speaker 4: and there was like a little dark side of you
• 23:10
  Speaker 4: is like I hope he just says in the bathroom,
• 23:12
  Speaker 4: this is this crazy kind of moment accident right after
• 23:15
  Speaker 4: David Aloady left and guess and tell him, but not yet.
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: You know, he got I want him all to myself, Yeah,
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: calmly sketch of some sort, but he uh no, but
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: he got to. He accided matter as well.
• 23:26
  Speaker 4: But it was just such a I don't think you
• 23:28
  Speaker 4: can do any better that he's you know, one of
• 23:31
  Speaker 4: the great artists of our times period and wow, just
• 23:35
  Speaker 4: uh just wasn't expecting that, and you know, obviously really
• 23:37
  Speaker 4: woke us up and fueled that show.
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, that's like.
• 23:42
  Speaker 3: Yeah, right, you're like you got an ivy all of
• 23:44
  Speaker 3: a sudden, like, yeah, does that make you nervous to
• 23:48
  Speaker 3: know that he's out there to perform you.
• 23:50
  Speaker 4: Know the good thing about I think being and I
• 23:53
  Speaker 4: felt the way even as it was unfolding. The good
• 23:56
  Speaker 4: thing about like not having things happen too fast as
• 23:58
  Speaker 4: a as a curve of class where we had these
• 24:01
  Speaker 4: like you know, four years and no one wanted to
• 24:03
  Speaker 4: sign us and so forth.
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: I think it helps develop something within you.
• 24:07
  Speaker 4: I feel like he's like a self preservation, some blinders
• 24:10
  Speaker 4: on your eyes, something that just kind of makes you
• 24:12
  Speaker 4: a little bit solid as far as just focusing on
• 24:15
  Speaker 4: what you can control and just doing your things. So
• 24:18
  Speaker 4: I don't really recall thinking too too much about it.
• 24:20
  Speaker 4: I just recall just getting in the moment or just
• 24:22
  Speaker 4: playing music. I do that, you know what I said,
• 24:24
  Speaker 4: I really do. It feels like, really I'm happy things
• 24:27
  Speaker 4: that not happened too fast for us. I'm happy that
• 24:30
  Speaker 4: I wasn't like we put out a song like as
• 24:32
  Speaker 4: like today, where you put out something else sudden just
• 24:34
  Speaker 4: blows up and you have no time to sort of
• 24:35
  Speaker 4: develop as a as a musician, as a band, as songwriters,
• 24:39
  Speaker 4: and so forth, and then you start overthinking things. I
• 24:41
  Speaker 4: was definitely worried in the early days of overthinking things
• 24:44
  Speaker 4: that would give in the way of like me being
• 24:46
  Speaker 4: able to write future songs, and I think having that
• 24:48
  Speaker 4: time to see formulate and so forth that kind of
• 24:51
  Speaker 4: secured something as far as just not thinking about anything
• 24:54
  Speaker 4: when I'm like writing for you know, for instance, I
• 24:56
  Speaker 4: don't think about anything. I don't think about whether people
• 24:58
  Speaker 4: are going to like something or not like something. I
• 25:00
  Speaker 4: just kind of just focus on whether I'm liking it,
• 25:02
  Speaker 4: and the world just sort of like you know, falls
• 25:04
  Speaker 4: to the backdraw.
• 25:06
  Speaker 3: When did you first realize that you want I wanted
• 25:09
  Speaker 3: to write songs or when did you start writing songs?
• 25:11
  Speaker 3: And what was the inspiration for that? Was there other
• 25:14
  Speaker 3: musical people in your family? Did you know people who
• 25:16
  Speaker 3: were making music?
• 25:18
  Speaker 4: Not really, I think for me, it's like you know,
• 25:20
  Speaker 4: I have I guess like just music was also like
• 25:23
  Speaker 4: such a strong position in my life and in my family.
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: I have two older brothers.
• 25:28
  Speaker 4: I was born in England, I lived there until six
• 25:30
  Speaker 4: and my eldest brother somehow was extraordinarily passionate about music.
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: I had this importance. So we eat the you know,
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: me and my two buttons.
• 25:38
  Speaker 4: We shared a room and bedroom together, so it's like
• 25:40
  Speaker 4: I could just in my first musical memories just staring
• 25:43
  Speaker 4: at this his side of the wall, you know, and
• 25:46
  Speaker 4: just seeing all these like cutouts of like Paul Weller
• 25:49
  Speaker 4: or countless other really using the Jam fan club.
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: So there's like tons of like Jam stuff.
• 25:53
  Speaker 4: So to me it was almost like this is my
• 25:55
  Speaker 4: first not even like my first musical memories, my first
• 25:58
  Speaker 4: life memories are staring at this wall, waking up and
• 26:01
  Speaker 4: go and sleep and just you know, And so to me,
• 26:03
  Speaker 4: it's almost like religion. You know, it's like if people
• 26:05
  Speaker 4: have religious artifacts. I'm looking at this and thinking this
• 26:08
  Speaker 4: is really serious. And then when I moved to I
• 26:10
  Speaker 4: lived England until six, and then France i was eleven.
• 26:14
  Speaker 4: And then when I moved to Washington, DC when I
• 26:16
  Speaker 4: was eleven, I think just moving there and I was
• 26:19
  Speaker 4: a skateboarder for a while, and then I quit doing
• 26:21
  Speaker 4: that and then I started, you know, on the same
• 26:23
  Speaker 4: day I quit skateboarding, I picked up playing guitar, and
• 26:26
  Speaker 4: then I started learning how to write songs on my own,
• 26:28
  Speaker 4: and that sort of I think I got something out
• 26:30
  Speaker 4: of it, as like a ag sort of my teenager
• 26:33
  Speaker 4: just kind of you know, making my own chords and
• 26:35
  Speaker 4: then realizing that I really when I started trying to
• 26:38
  Speaker 4: write songs, and you know, something happened for me in emotionally,
• 26:41
  Speaker 4: I felt, you know, I felt a little bit better,
• 26:43
  Speaker 4: if that makes sense, just like that sort of scapees
• 26:45
  Speaker 4: and like writing songs of the night and feeling like.
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: A little bit more whole by doing so.
• 26:50
  Speaker 3: When you moved to d C when you were eleven,
• 26:52
  Speaker 3: did you lock in with like the local music scene
• 26:55
  Speaker 3: in DC at the time, Like what was going on
• 26:57
  Speaker 3: musically there.
• 26:59
  Speaker 4: I mean, I was in all of the music scene
• 27:01
  Speaker 4: that for sure had a big inspiration. And I think
• 27:04
  Speaker 4: also having come from like London and France and these
• 27:07
  Speaker 4: two older brothers were really you know, very had like
• 27:10
  Speaker 4: you know, a little strong pump rock energy and you know,
• 27:13
  Speaker 4: underground energy that they took really seriously. And I think
• 27:16
  Speaker 4: that in that time period, like in the UK and
• 27:19
  Speaker 4: in France, you when you dressed a certain way, it's
• 27:21
  Speaker 4: almost sort of like it meant something, you know.
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: It wasn't.
• 27:24
  Speaker 4: You're a bit of a tribe, you know, and you're
• 27:27
  Speaker 4: also a bit of a target. It was serious work
• 27:29
  Speaker 4: because of other people you encounter, other people that weren't
• 27:31
  Speaker 4: of the same tribe like that, they could get it
• 27:33
  Speaker 4: could get like sort of like violin and so forth.
• 27:35
  Speaker 4: It was really a serious in a way that it
• 27:38
  Speaker 4: is not now or it's just very different now. So
• 27:40
  Speaker 4: in that sense, I think that also is like set
• 27:42
  Speaker 4: of a seriousness with me too. And then moving to
• 27:45
  Speaker 4: d C for sure. And also just like the in.
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: The skateboarding world, you know, you start discovering like hardcore and.
• 27:51
  Speaker 4: Not really in the hardcore and the d C and
• 27:53
  Speaker 4: like the Discord stuff was a huge that's when I
• 27:55
  Speaker 4: discovered that. I was like, I mean, I don't think
• 27:57
  Speaker 4: I could think of a bigger influence if I had
• 28:00
  Speaker 4: this single one band that had the biggest influence on
• 28:03
  Speaker 4: me as a as a musician and me covered my
• 28:05
  Speaker 4: own palf I would say fu Gassi by far.
• 28:07
  Speaker 3: Yeah for sure. So what was your first band? When
• 28:10
  Speaker 3: did you find guys to play with?
• 28:13
  Speaker 4: I mean really Enterpolse really kind of like was the
• 28:15
  Speaker 4: first like serious band, Like I did high school bands
• 28:18
  Speaker 4: in DC, but you know, you did a few shows
• 28:20
  Speaker 4: here and there and so forth, and it was kind
• 28:22
  Speaker 4: of fun. But it's I think it's almost like sets
• 28:24
  Speaker 4: you in the path to like learning how to play
• 28:25
  Speaker 4: live and not being too nervous about it. But when
• 28:28
  Speaker 4: I moved to New York, I really set my my
• 28:30
  Speaker 4: my my goals were finally like, you know, a copper
• 28:34
  Speaker 4: and serious band to play with.
• 28:35
  Speaker 3: I heard that you you guys recorded antics like pretty
• 28:38
  Speaker 3: close closely after the first album. When it came time
• 28:42
  Speaker 3: to do the third album, did you ever experience like, oh,
• 28:46
  Speaker 3: it's suddenly hard to write new songs.
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: Observationally, I would say it didn't happen.
• 28:53
  Speaker 4: I always kind of expected or knew that it could happen,
• 28:55
  Speaker 4: you know, like I really I knew, you know, just
• 28:58
  Speaker 4: musical issuy wise, like even like the the sophomore slump
• 29:01
  Speaker 4: and so forthwarth people, I think those pitfalls are things
• 29:04
  Speaker 4: that I was awareless. So I was trying to be mindful,
• 29:07
  Speaker 4: like you know, so for instance, you know, as you mentioned,
• 29:10
  Speaker 4: album and the album two are very close together. But
• 29:12
  Speaker 4: that was something that was like I think we were
• 29:14
  Speaker 4: very mindful of, like let's start working on album too
• 29:17
  Speaker 4: while we're still touring on on Bright Lights.
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: Let's just you know, not, let's not let's get ahead.
• 29:22
  Speaker 4: Of all of this, like all these sort of cliches
• 29:24
  Speaker 4: or you know, or these these these truths of the
• 29:27
  Speaker 4: music and to stry, let's just like start writing stuff.
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: We can really think about it.
• 29:30
  Speaker 4: And so that's why we put those two records also
• 29:32
  Speaker 4: close together, because we're quite ready, because we just continued
• 29:35
  Speaker 4: and I think we're naturally progressing as musicians as songwriters
• 29:39
  Speaker 4: while we're writing antics and so I think, you know, constantly,
• 29:44
  Speaker 4: I've always been mindful of this so too. It's it's strange,
• 29:47
  Speaker 4: like I think maybe after getting you know, through those
• 29:49
  Speaker 4: first two records, something sort of just kind of happened naturally,
• 29:52
  Speaker 4: so you just kind of got through us a storm
• 29:54
  Speaker 4: and then you stopped thinking about it.
• 29:56
  Speaker 2: And also what I was saying before about those first.
• 29:58
  Speaker 4: Four years of just no one wanted to sign us,
• 30:01
  Speaker 4: I think that really sort of gave us a just
• 30:03
  Speaker 4: station period just to be kind of like, you know,
• 30:06
  Speaker 4: even though we'd had changes and we had challenges along
• 30:08
  Speaker 4: the way as band members, and I think we still
• 30:12
  Speaker 4: had something kind of solid ones we were able to
• 30:14
  Speaker 4: focus on underworking on new music.
• 30:17
  Speaker 2: You know, we were never had like a big like
• 30:18
  Speaker 2: writing droughts. You know, we've never been short on ideas.
• 30:22
  Speaker 4: I mean, people might could, you know, could very they
• 30:25
  Speaker 4: could be like, well, maybe should have taken a little
• 30:26
  Speaker 4: bit longer or something like that. That's fair, but you know,
• 30:28
  Speaker 4: for us, while we're working on things, I think we
• 30:30
  Speaker 4: got pretty into what we're working on. So for even
• 30:33
  Speaker 4: like album three, I think, you know, there's maybe a
• 30:35
  Speaker 4: little bit more like things were happening behind the scenes
• 30:39
  Speaker 4: in the band and so forth, you know, like the
• 30:41
  Speaker 4: natural like challenges of like adults and yeah and so forth.
• 30:46
  Speaker 4: But I don't think once we were in writing it
• 30:48
  Speaker 4: was like challenging is you know. We might have had
• 30:50
  Speaker 4: like more like conversations about directions and so forth, But
• 30:54
  Speaker 4: for the most part, I think we always had a
• 30:56
  Speaker 4: strong sense of like chemistry. It's just a matter of
• 30:58
  Speaker 4: like maybe which direction we want to go to. But
• 31:00
  Speaker 4: even like an album three, you know, I was happy
• 31:03
  Speaker 4: what we're doing for album three. You know, It's interesting
• 31:05
  Speaker 4: because I feel like maybe at the time, I mean
• 31:09
  Speaker 4: it's like a while ago, but I feel like at
• 31:10
  Speaker 4: the time people pile least there are these certain people
• 31:13
  Speaker 4: I've never like really read much up press and stuff
• 31:15
  Speaker 4: like this. I stopped reading press really on like touring
• 31:18
  Speaker 4: on Turn of the Bright Lights because it just, I
• 31:20
  Speaker 4: don't know, I felt like, this is not for me
• 31:21
  Speaker 4: to read, It's for other people to read, you know
• 31:23
  Speaker 4: what I mean. I don't want my feelings to be
• 31:25
  Speaker 4: wrapped up on this of like anticipation if this is
• 31:28
  Speaker 4: going to be a good review or bad review, because like, wait,
• 31:31
  Speaker 4: what can I do now? Like I can just control
• 31:33
  Speaker 4: writing music, recording music, and releasing it.
• 31:36
  Speaker 2: But apart from that, it's like completely out in my hands.
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: So like, oh, okay, so I'll just let go.
• 31:39
  Speaker 4: And it felt as soon as I made that decision,
• 31:41
  Speaker 4: it felt like the right one. So but on the
• 31:44
  Speaker 4: album through, I probably felt like there's probably a little
• 31:46
  Speaker 4: bit of like people not taking to the record, which
• 31:49
  Speaker 4: might you know, I think sometimes that's just like part
• 31:50
  Speaker 4: for the portion, and you come in with like a
• 31:52
  Speaker 4: lot of attention on your first like you know, two actors,
• 31:56
  Speaker 4: and there's a moment where especially I think back then
• 31:58
  Speaker 4: with like the way the pendulum was like swing, I
• 32:02
  Speaker 4: think those things might have happened around IBM three.
• 32:04
  Speaker 3: It's always like there's a natural up and down, but
• 32:06
  Speaker 3: sometimes it feels fabricated and it's like people are like
• 32:10
  Speaker 3: chomping at the bit to write that story. You know.
• 32:13
  Speaker 3: It's like that's a crazy instinct that humans have.
• 32:18
  Speaker 4: It's weird, I mean, and you don't want any excuses
• 32:20
  Speaker 4: because if someone's legitially like yo, I don't think this
• 32:23
  Speaker 4: is a very good record, or I think like your
• 32:24
  Speaker 4: other stuff is way better. That's completely a fair assessment,
• 32:28
  Speaker 4: you know. That's like the beautiful thing about arts, Like
• 32:29
  Speaker 4: everyone has a different opinion and that's like fair and
• 32:32
  Speaker 4: no one is really wrong. It's a very subjective entity
• 32:35
  Speaker 4: like thing media, whatever you know, and and so like.
• 32:38
  Speaker 2: But at the same time, I think sometimes there is like.
• 32:40
  Speaker 4: In probably like music, popular music criticism, this is maybe
• 32:44
  Speaker 4: a little bit of like I'm tired of these guys
• 32:45
  Speaker 4: or I'm tired of this, you know, versus giving it
• 32:47
  Speaker 4: a real shake. I definitely remember hearing someone come up
• 32:51
  Speaker 4: to me like years later and say like, oh, yeah,
• 32:53
  Speaker 4: I didn't really like album three and I gave it
• 32:55
  Speaker 4: like not a very good review or stuff. I can't
• 32:57
  Speaker 4: remember the circumstances, but you know, when I went back
• 32:59
  Speaker 4: and listened to it recently and it's actually pretty good,
• 33:01
  Speaker 4: and I was like.
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: Bro, get away from me. I'm like, I don't know,
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: like I like, like, I don't know. It's like one
• 33:06
  Speaker 2: thing to you, as I.
• 33:07
  Speaker 4: Said, if you don't like it, I totally get that,
• 33:09
  Speaker 4: but it's like I don't know to to do. That
• 33:12
  Speaker 4: is not really I feel like, you know, or if
• 33:14
  Speaker 4: you need a minute, maybe get a better assessment of
• 33:16
  Speaker 4: it before you formulate an opinion.
• 33:19
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's the problem with that job is like oftentimes
• 33:21
  Speaker 3: you only have a couple of days to listen to
• 33:23
  Speaker 3: the album, to digest it, and then to sort of
• 33:26
  Speaker 3: like barf out an opinion. But you're like you should
• 33:30
  Speaker 3: to that guy, it's like, dude, can you like publish
• 33:32
  Speaker 3: a new story, like an updated opinion?
• 33:35
  Speaker 2: I mean, you know what that's actually like not a
• 33:37
  Speaker 2: bad story.
• 33:38
  Speaker 4: There, you know, like you know, but yeah.
• 33:42
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, it's so annoying. But do you find as
• 33:45
  Speaker 3: just a fan of music and a listener, like, do
• 33:48
  Speaker 3: you find yourself doing the same thing to other artists
• 33:51
  Speaker 3: or other groups where you listen to something and you like,
• 33:54
  Speaker 3: is your first reaction ever just to hate on it?
• 33:58
  Speaker 3: Or do you feel like because you're in the industry,
• 34:00
  Speaker 3: you're just naturally supportive.
• 34:03
  Speaker 2: I don't know if I have one meaning or the other.
• 34:05
  Speaker 4: I think it's also different times in your life and
• 34:07
  Speaker 4: different ages in your life, you know what I mean. Like,
• 34:09
  Speaker 4: there's like I certainly when I was like a you know,
• 34:12
  Speaker 4: late teenager, early twenties, I think I probably formulate my
• 34:14
  Speaker 4: opinions pretty quickly.
• 34:16
  Speaker 2: And yeah, in a way that I certainly would not
• 34:18
  Speaker 2: do now or I haven't done in a while. But
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: like I think, especially.
• 34:21
  Speaker 4: When you're like a you know, a late teenager, I
• 34:25
  Speaker 4: do remember when like certain things were blowing up. I
• 34:27
  Speaker 4: was already into like a lot of like hardcore kind
• 34:29
  Speaker 4: of stuff when I was in high school, or underground
• 34:31
  Speaker 4: kind of stuff, and then all of a sudden, Nirvana
• 34:34
  Speaker 4: becomes like so massive, and all these bands becomes so massive,
• 34:36
  Speaker 4: and everyone in your high school like likes, you know,
• 34:39
  Speaker 4: this music that sounds pretty close to the things that
• 34:41
  Speaker 4: you like. You've become like a proprietary like kind of standpoint,
• 34:44
  Speaker 4: and you feel like a little bit of cross upon
• 34:46
  Speaker 4: because this is like one of the elements that said
• 34:48
  Speaker 4: you made you feel a little bit different, you know,
• 34:51
  Speaker 4: in a way that I think is very different now
• 34:52
  Speaker 4: than it was then. But but when I was a
• 34:54
  Speaker 4: kid then it was like you'd have to really like
• 34:56
  Speaker 4: dig dig dig to get some of the stuff. And
• 34:58
  Speaker 4: all of a sudden it became so mainstream and in
• 35:01
  Speaker 4: a very well earned and exciting way, like there's an
• 35:04
  Speaker 4: undeniable and pure like Nirvana sounds amazing now too, you know,
• 35:08
  Speaker 4: when I here like out there, it's like undeniable At
• 35:11
  Speaker 4: that time, I think I probably had a hard time
• 35:13
  Speaker 4: hearing it because it was just energy wise or closer
• 35:16
  Speaker 4: things that I liked that I just kind of, you know,
• 35:17
  Speaker 4: wanted to keep for myself. So it's just like an
• 35:19
  Speaker 4: I hadn't heard Navana before they actually really blew up.
• 35:23
  Speaker 4: I hadn't heard Bleachs and so forth. But it's like
• 35:25
  Speaker 4: you hear it now, you know, and it's like, this
• 35:28
  Speaker 4: is an undeniably incredible original band with these songs that
• 35:33
  Speaker 4: are very singular and you know, like lyrics that are
• 35:35
  Speaker 4: really one of a kind, and it's amazing that it
• 35:37
  Speaker 4: actually resonated with like you know, popular culture and the masses.
• 35:41
  Speaker 4: It's really because it's so unique sounding and in some
• 35:44
  Speaker 4: ways it's it's a sounding that would be for so
• 35:48
  Speaker 4: many people, you know what I mean. There's like something
• 35:49
  Speaker 4: that's really like left of sensor. So it's actually looking back,
• 35:53
  Speaker 4: it's an extraordinarily exciting moment.
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: You know, one last break and moving back with Daniel Kessler, do.
• 36:03
  Speaker 3: You think of like at this point, I know that
• 36:06
  Speaker 3: you had a celebration. I think it waslast year, maybe
• 36:09
  Speaker 3: a couple of years ago for antics, was it the
• 36:13
  Speaker 3: twentieth anniversary.
• 36:15
  Speaker 2: Or it was, Yeah, it was the twentieth and twenty twenty.
• 36:19
  Speaker 3: Four, twenty twenty four. Okay, So at that point do
• 36:24
  Speaker 3: you start to think of Interpol as a legacy band, Like,
• 36:28
  Speaker 3: how does that sit with you? I wish that wasn't
• 36:34
  Speaker 3: a bad thing, because no.
• 36:35
  Speaker 2: I mean, in some ways it's an amazing heat. You know.
• 36:39
  Speaker 4: It's like really and I mean what I say, like
• 36:41
  Speaker 4: I never got further than my sort of dreaming about
• 36:43
  Speaker 4: making out one. I feel like it feels so close
• 36:46
  Speaker 4: to me when I think of those of that feeling
• 36:49
  Speaker 4: somehow I really think about playing the Troubadour. It's really
• 36:52
  Speaker 4: strange because I feel like that like when we had
• 36:54
  Speaker 4: this two shows there and playing it and it was
• 36:56
  Speaker 4: like really like I really dawned to me, like wow,
• 37:00
  Speaker 4: this is really happening right now, and those all those
• 37:01
  Speaker 4: those times not that long ago, people just for showing
• 37:04
  Speaker 4: no interests and like we have these two sold out shows.
• 37:07
  Speaker 4: But to me, it was like, wow, that was like
• 37:09
  Speaker 4: my dream. And so that was like and I just
• 37:11
  Speaker 4: never anything after that. Als felt like bonus, it really
• 37:14
  Speaker 4: did like soon after that and then here we are
• 37:16
  Speaker 4: on an album.
• 37:17
  Speaker 3: A that's a lot of years of bonus.
• 37:19
  Speaker 4: It's like yeah, but you know, the thing about it
• 37:22
  Speaker 4: is like I guess it's absolutely and it's like so
• 37:25
  Speaker 4: it's one part of me like that's just really crazy,
• 37:27
  Speaker 4: and I guess some ways, like lots of life has
• 37:29
  Speaker 4: been lived since then, you you know, by doing this,
• 37:32
  Speaker 4: you know, I've got to explore the world, meet people
• 37:35
  Speaker 4: from all over the world, have many different life experiences.
• 37:37
  Speaker 4: So in that sense, it's really the band's giving you
• 37:39
  Speaker 4: so much. But then you make a record like the
• 37:42
  Speaker 4: record we just made, or every time we write songs,
• 37:45
  Speaker 4: you have this urgency and this uh in the songwriting together,
• 37:49
  Speaker 4: you have this chemistry and it's kind of undeniable, and
• 37:52
  Speaker 4: it's never like it it never feels like work.
• 37:54
  Speaker 2: It's more of just like you feel it. It's like invigorating,
• 37:57
  Speaker 2: it's visceral.
• 37:58
  Speaker 4: It's like all these things and in some ways is
• 38:01
  Speaker 4: there's a commonality because that to like how it was
• 38:05
  Speaker 4: when we first started like writing songs and realizing that
• 38:07
  Speaker 4: there's like this chemistry that hasn't really changed that much.
• 38:10
  Speaker 4: And that's again like going back to these things can dissipate,
• 38:13
  Speaker 4: they can just go.
• 38:13
  Speaker 2: Away and be very understandable.
• 38:16
  Speaker 4: They you know, and if it started feeling like a
• 38:18
  Speaker 4: job then, you know, like and so forth, But it's
• 38:21
  Speaker 4: never felt like a job. It's never felt like something.
• 38:23
  Speaker 4: We don't start making records. We feel like we're writing
• 38:26
  Speaker 4: songs because we feel like we need to go do this.
• 38:28
  Speaker 4: We can start touring. We've never thought about those terms
• 38:30
  Speaker 4: you write. We're still abandoned. Still write songs together and
• 38:34
  Speaker 4: make records because I feel like it's just a it's
• 38:36
  Speaker 4: just this energy, this chemistry is just really like pure
• 38:39
  Speaker 4: and it's just it's undeniable, and it's really get so
• 38:41
  Speaker 4: much out of it, and it's passionate, and you feel
• 38:43
  Speaker 4: like you can do something better than what you done previously.
• 38:46
  Speaker 2: But you just feel like this evolution is so happening
• 38:49
  Speaker 2: while we're doing this.
• 38:50
  Speaker 4: So to me, it's like as long as that's feeling
• 38:52
  Speaker 4: is still there, and then that's kind of what you're
• 38:54
  Speaker 4: focused on.
• 38:54
  Speaker 2: So it's almost like I think to myself.
• 38:57
  Speaker 4: Maybe, like, you know, there'll be a time where I'll
• 38:59
  Speaker 4: look back about some of these things that we've done
• 39:00
  Speaker 4: and so forth, and you know, but that's it's not right.
• 39:03
  Speaker 2: It's not now in that sense, you know, but it's
• 39:04
  Speaker 2: also true.
• 39:05
  Speaker 4: It's like it's been a long time, So if not,
• 39:07
  Speaker 4: and if probably probably been saying a version of this
• 39:11
  Speaker 4: to myself for a very long time. But I think
• 39:13
  Speaker 4: in some ways, I think I don't think about it
• 39:16
  Speaker 4: that much because I just want to keep going forward because.
• 39:18
  Speaker 2: I really do believe in what we're doing.
• 39:20
  Speaker 4: And if I ever felt like trying or like there
• 39:23
  Speaker 4: was a drought in the songwriting or the chemistry shows
• 39:26
  Speaker 4: the there, then you know, I'm we would definitely take
• 39:28
  Speaker 4: a big pause. We definitely would take a moment. We
• 39:31
  Speaker 4: definitely would never force anything. But it's kind of insane
• 39:34
  Speaker 4: to me that actually that has never been and on
• 39:36
  Speaker 4: the slightest round it that's abelt very Yeah, it felt
• 39:39
  Speaker 4: really amazing in the moments, you know, and it felt
• 39:41
  Speaker 4: very exciting, and we wasn't even belaboring. We didn't spend
• 39:44
  Speaker 4: a ton of time working in these songs were writing
• 39:46
  Speaker 4: and before we started recording them. So I think if
• 39:48
  Speaker 4: you're having moments like this that are feeling very like
• 39:51
  Speaker 4: good energy, positive and you're getting excited, and you kind
• 39:54
  Speaker 4: of more focus on that than what you've already accomplished.
• 39:58
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, of course for the new album, was
• 40:01
  Speaker 3: there any more of those sort of like magical moments
• 40:04
  Speaker 3: that you remember when something really started to come together
• 40:08
  Speaker 3: and feel complete.
• 40:10
  Speaker 2: I think it's a couple of times. I feel like
• 40:11
  Speaker 2: when we were doing like the Burden Serpent, just towards
• 40:14
  Speaker 2: the end of the record, that one does something. I
• 40:17
  Speaker 2: know when I was like that was the one song
• 40:18
  Speaker 2: that I think when I was writing the main Progression,
• 40:20
  Speaker 2: I had it in a very different kind of mode.
• 40:24
  Speaker 4: It was almost maybe a little bit more like it
• 40:26
  Speaker 4: just felt like maybe like more rocky, and all of
• 40:28
  Speaker 4: a sudden I started playing with like the sort of
• 40:30
  Speaker 4: rhythm of it, and I feel like that sort of
• 40:33
  Speaker 4: kind of so for me, I was getting kind of
• 40:35
  Speaker 4: excited about like, oh what this could be. And then
• 40:36
  Speaker 4: when we started working on it as a unit in
• 40:39
  Speaker 4: the rehearsal room, I just feeling the excitement of the
• 40:42
  Speaker 4: energy and so forth, and feeling realized.
• 40:44
  Speaker 2: I think that was like a good indication.
• 40:46
  Speaker 4: I think this mirror weighs a ton of the title
• 40:48
  Speaker 4: track when that started growing in the studio. I mean,
• 40:51
  Speaker 4: a really great moment for me is just like sitting
• 40:53
  Speaker 4: there with Andrew's work and someone's atmospheres that are happening
• 40:56
  Speaker 4: in the song and the courses and Paulosis right next
• 41:01
  Speaker 4: to me at that moment is you know, to me,
• 41:03
  Speaker 4: I felt like, that's almost become like an instrumental piece
• 41:06
  Speaker 4: of music. But then pauls whom my left and he
• 41:08
  Speaker 4: was like writing in a notebook, and then all of
• 41:10
  Speaker 4: a sudden he ran to the he had like a
• 41:12
  Speaker 4: little studio in the back of Madrew's studio, like a
• 41:14
  Speaker 4: little working room. And then two hours later I walked
• 41:17
  Speaker 4: in and he played me some of the vocals that
• 41:20
  Speaker 4: he had just recorded and and right there and then
• 41:22
  Speaker 4: you're like, oh, so this is definitely not gonna become
• 41:24
  Speaker 4: an instrumental because these vocals are too good and now
• 41:27
  Speaker 4: these and these melodies are too amazing.
• 41:29
  Speaker 2: And then even then I'm pretty sure he just in
• 41:32
  Speaker 2: that one moment he'd written this may of waste a
• 41:34
  Speaker 2: ton That lyric was already there, so like right there,
• 41:36
  Speaker 2: you're like, what is that? Like that just jumps out
• 41:38
  Speaker 2: at you.
• 41:39
  Speaker 4: So those are really exciting kind of like visceral moments,
• 41:41
  Speaker 4: I would say, you know, but there's a lot of
• 41:44
  Speaker 4: them on the record, Like even like even like a
• 41:45
  Speaker 4: song that's probably a little more of like an Interpols
• 41:47
  Speaker 4: song like c out Loud, uh that that was like
• 41:49
  Speaker 4: a really fun one put together and find the jam
• 41:52
  Speaker 4: on and stuff like that.
• 41:53
  Speaker 2: Or wake up too.
• 41:55
  Speaker 4: That's you know, that feels like a you know, sort
• 41:57
  Speaker 4: of like kind of like my guitarist a little bit
• 41:59
  Speaker 4: like almost like a West African kind of like guitar
• 42:01
  Speaker 4: sort of inscribed you know, rhythm and then like you know,
• 42:04
  Speaker 4: just the song.
• 42:04
  Speaker 2: Playing that together, like the energy and so forth was
• 42:07
  Speaker 2: really fun.
• 42:08
  Speaker 3: It sounds like the song sort of evolve a lot
• 42:11
  Speaker 3: from the time you bring them in into the band.
• 42:15
  Speaker 3: Are there any that you were sort of surprised by
• 42:17
  Speaker 3: or went in a direction that was extremely satisfying?
• 42:21
  Speaker 2: I mean this countless because I think it's like, as
• 42:24
  Speaker 2: much as maybe the songs tend to begin with me,
• 42:27
  Speaker 2: for the most part, the thing that makes them so
• 42:29
  Speaker 2: exciting is like I would never predict where they're going
• 42:32
  Speaker 2: to go.
• 42:33
  Speaker 4: And and that's like something that I wanted from the
• 42:35
  Speaker 4: very beginning of the band, and it still happens now
• 42:38
  Speaker 4: and it becomes all of our songs, Like as soon
• 42:39
  Speaker 4: as I put onto the floor of the rehearsal room,
• 42:42
  Speaker 4: so I'm.
• 42:43
  Speaker 2: On the slaves record this, you know all of them.
• 42:44
  Speaker 2: I can say that for sure. It's because as soon
• 42:46
  Speaker 2: as like.
• 42:46
  Speaker 4: You know what, Paul, I might do something, and then
• 42:49
  Speaker 4: Paul might do something. Sam might be more influenced by
• 42:52
  Speaker 4: what Paul's doing than I was doing. Brad now has
• 42:55
  Speaker 4: been like writing with us as well playing bass. It's all,
• 42:58
  Speaker 4: you know, And I think to me, that's the idea
• 42:59
  Speaker 4: is like now the unpredictability of what the end result
• 43:02
  Speaker 4: of what we're going to settle on, who's going to
• 43:04
  Speaker 4: inspire by who and what which I guess in some
• 43:06
  Speaker 4: ways you could say, well that's maybe like a lot
• 43:07
  Speaker 4: of bands, so for ours, I think gets made it
• 43:09
  Speaker 4: less of you really don't know where this is really
• 43:13
  Speaker 4: going to set upon, you know, but I think, you know,
• 43:15
  Speaker 4: even like working again like The Burden Serpent, like a well,
• 43:18
  Speaker 4: like working on this one and working with Andrew who's
• 43:20
  Speaker 4: just like such a orchestration whiz and a musical wiz
• 43:24
  Speaker 4: and just you know those you know, just music so
• 43:27
  Speaker 4: well from like a compositional standpoint, so he added all
• 43:30
  Speaker 4: these great sounds where it's the outro of that song
• 43:34
  Speaker 4: and it sort of just has this like it just
• 43:36
  Speaker 4: feels like you just enter it to this other world.
• 43:38
  Speaker 4: It has another worldliness in a way that's just like
• 43:40
  Speaker 4: it's like exotic. This is like certainly there's some sounds
• 43:44
  Speaker 4: on that section of song that I've never been on you know,
• 43:47
  Speaker 4: any other interpol, yeah, crass, And it's just sort of
• 43:51
  Speaker 4: like unexpected from where you're going from from where you've
• 43:53
  Speaker 4: already been through this journey, and then all of a
• 43:55
  Speaker 4: sudden you're in this like plane.
• 43:56
  Speaker 2: I look at this, like this open field of these.
• 43:59
  Speaker 4: Like little exotic animals just hopping up and down, and
• 44:01
  Speaker 4: this is sort of like an amazing place to be.
• 44:03
  Speaker 4: And so I love the fact that that was created,
• 44:06
  Speaker 4: in the fact that we were all like really receptive
• 44:07
  Speaker 4: to that, versus.
• 44:08
  Speaker 2: Being like no, no, no, no, that can't be on
• 44:10
  Speaker 2: an imple record.
• 44:10
  Speaker 4: It's more like, yes, I can be in an a
• 44:12
  Speaker 4: pole record, and it's like it should be. And so
• 44:15
  Speaker 4: these are things in some ways where a now that
• 44:17
  Speaker 4: have it, you know, existed like I would say, like
• 44:19
  Speaker 4: you know, from NYC from the first record too on,
• 44:22
  Speaker 4: you know, I love to admire like on our very
• 44:24
  Speaker 4: first track, Pioneer to the Falls, like that song it's
• 44:27
  Speaker 4: I you know, I still love playing a song and
• 44:29
  Speaker 4: the compositionally, there's also like some orchestral elements in it
• 44:33
  Speaker 4: that we're not so obviously be on an in apole
• 44:36
  Speaker 4: track as if you were like based on when the
• 44:38
  Speaker 4: first two records sounded like.
• 44:39
  Speaker 2: So I don't.
• 44:40
  Speaker 4: I think there's also been things that we've tried to
• 44:42
  Speaker 4: be open to and and uh.
• 44:45
  Speaker 2: And it's something like you not have not push ourselves.
• 44:47
  Speaker 4: I think these are just tastes that we've always had,
• 44:49
  Speaker 4: and so when we've encountered like a situation where we
• 44:51
  Speaker 4: can go there or be including them, it's just it's
• 44:54
  Speaker 4: just felt great. And as long as it's not like
• 44:56
  Speaker 4: forced onto it as much as like, oh no, this
• 44:58
  Speaker 4: is a it makes sense that we've arrived at this
• 45:00
  Speaker 4: like destined, you know, destination. And I think on this
• 45:04
  Speaker 4: latest record there's like a lot of examples on that,
• 45:06
  Speaker 4: like just every track has so many more key and
• 45:09
  Speaker 4: we've ever had on previous records and sounds and so forth.
• 45:12
  Speaker 4: And I think that was definitely something that Andrew wanted
• 45:15
  Speaker 4: to bring forth and those and for me, that was
• 45:17
  Speaker 4: exactly what I was hoping that he would introduce.
• 45:20
  Speaker 3: Have you started thinking about the next album yet? Are
• 45:22
  Speaker 3: you still just locked in on on this one?
• 45:26
  Speaker 4: I mean, I think I love writing music, so I'm all,
• 45:28
  Speaker 4: you know, like a little like animal. I think I'm
• 45:30
  Speaker 4: always like kind of like always like trying to like
• 45:32
  Speaker 4: chisel away and work on stuff. So it's like, as
• 45:35
  Speaker 4: I I'm so now, like every moment that I'm not
• 45:38
  Speaker 4: on the road, I followed ever routine that I was
• 45:41
  Speaker 4: you know, speaking of, and just try to like, you know,
• 45:43
  Speaker 4: I think I probably I mean there's a degree of
• 45:46
  Speaker 4: like I like having something that's going on that I'm
• 45:48
  Speaker 4: like excited about that I want to kind of keep
• 45:50
  Speaker 4: you know.
• 45:51
  Speaker 2: Nurturing and trying to building and so forth.
• 45:53
  Speaker 4: And I feel that way now certainly, But then you
• 45:56
  Speaker 4: also want to be open.
• 45:58
  Speaker 2: Well maybe there's even more that you can do, you know,
• 46:00
  Speaker 2: you don't want to. It's nice to have those like things.
• 46:02
  Speaker 4: That you're already the concerting on, but it's also like, well,
• 46:05
  Speaker 4: let's get through those things, because then you can have
• 46:07
  Speaker 4: like an open palette and you never know what's going
• 46:10
  Speaker 4: to get introduced. And I think that's part of like
• 46:13
  Speaker 4: the exciting element of trying to do this. You want,
• 46:15
  Speaker 4: you know, stay unexpected and what all of a sudden
• 46:18
  Speaker 4: you find yourself like working on the like where did
• 46:20
  Speaker 4: this come from? You know? And those are those are
• 46:22
  Speaker 4: the things that I feel like very alluring and you
• 46:25
  Speaker 4: hope for you know, and you can't for me at least,
• 46:27
  Speaker 4: I can't really force them. I think there's certain people
• 46:29
  Speaker 4: who can just write, you know, ten hours a day
• 46:32
  Speaker 4: and have like a hundred songs a year.
• 46:34
  Speaker 2: I'm not quite like that, I think. I like, you know,
• 46:36
  Speaker 2: I'm a little bit.
• 46:37
  Speaker 4: More like a fisherman and it just puts a fishing
• 46:39
  Speaker 4: rod in the water and then hope something bites and
• 46:41
  Speaker 4: you never know when it does.
• 46:42
  Speaker 2: But the important thing is to go fishing every day.
• 46:45
  Speaker 3: Do you pick up the guitar at any other points
• 46:48
  Speaker 3: during the day or is it strictly the morning routine
• 46:50
  Speaker 3: with the coffee in the film?
• 46:52
  Speaker 2: Uh, you know, it's it's I will do.
• 46:55
  Speaker 4: Like over times, I realized I just don't have the
• 46:57
  Speaker 4: same like obviously, you know, like as far as writing, Yeah,
• 47:00
  Speaker 4: I don't have the same sort of like connection as
• 47:02
  Speaker 4: far as like creativity.
• 47:04
  Speaker 2: Obviously.
• 47:05
  Speaker 4: You can play shows at night, you know, like sometimes
• 47:07
  Speaker 4: super late at night and so forth, So it's not
• 47:10
  Speaker 4: that's just but that's like a different thing.
• 47:11
  Speaker 2: That's like an emotional like release.
• 47:13
  Speaker 4: You know, And but you know, it's like I can
• 47:16
  Speaker 4: I in the afternoons or other times a day if
• 47:18
  Speaker 4: I'm like more like recording on my own where I
• 47:21
  Speaker 4: might you know, I know what I want to do.
• 47:23
  Speaker 4: It's a matter of like exercising it better, like I
• 47:25
  Speaker 4: can do things like that, and I do do that,
• 47:27
  Speaker 4: but it's as far as creating.
• 47:28
  Speaker 2: I don't know why, but I guess it's like this
• 47:30
  Speaker 2: is something that I just realized for me.
• 47:32
  Speaker 4: And everyone's wired a little bit differently, but I realized
• 47:34
  Speaker 4: that for me a long time ago, and then I
• 47:36
  Speaker 4: guess it's like that, you know, friends of mine had
• 47:37
  Speaker 4: told me that a lot of creative people over history,
• 47:40
  Speaker 4: not just music, that's just kind of like they have
• 47:42
  Speaker 4: their own patterns. And I remember seeing this film with
• 47:45
  Speaker 4: the director Bergman talking about his routine and you're just
• 47:48
  Speaker 4: like really regimented about it, and it was like something
• 47:50
  Speaker 4: like the morning time, like nine to noon, he would
• 47:52
  Speaker 4: just like lock himself in a study and work on
• 47:55
  Speaker 4: on whatever is working on and so forth, like and
• 47:57
  Speaker 4: I think there's something about like those kind of routines
• 48:00
  Speaker 4: that do make sense to me, like I do identify
• 48:02
  Speaker 4: with and yeah, yeah, those patterns.
• 48:04
  Speaker 3: You know, it feels good to have a pattern too,
• 48:07
  Speaker 3: or have sort of like something you can look forward
• 48:09
  Speaker 3: to in a schedule totally.
• 48:12
  Speaker 2: I think it centers you a little bit. But it's, uh,
• 48:14
  Speaker 2: I think that's to me.
• 48:15
  Speaker 4: It's like, that's why it's like having no clock and
• 48:18
  Speaker 4: I think not, I don't turn on.
• 48:19
  Speaker 2: My phone, I don't I don't look at the world.
• 48:22
  Speaker 4: It's just yeah, to me, that's like the biggest luxury
• 48:25
  Speaker 4: I can have in those like you know, in this morning,
• 48:27
  Speaker 4: So I truly I treasure them.
• 48:30
  Speaker 3: I don't want to put you on the spot. But
• 48:31
  Speaker 3: because you say film and not movies, I feel like
• 48:35
  Speaker 3: you might have some really good recommendations. Do you have
• 48:37
  Speaker 3: just like a couple films that you would recommend or
• 48:42
  Speaker 3: that you just love or that you could go back
• 48:45
  Speaker 3: to or that people should see.
• 48:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean there's so many, and I'm like it's
• 48:50
  Speaker 2: like souls in those moments that you're like.
• 48:52
  Speaker 3: I I hate when people ask me questions like this,
• 48:55
  Speaker 3: but I.
• 48:56
  Speaker 4: Feel like one the one I was mentioned for the
• 48:58
  Speaker 4: Passengers are really a unique one. It's because it's like, uh,
• 49:02
  Speaker 4: I think Jack Nicholson stars in it, and it's like
• 49:05
  Speaker 4: right sick, Yeah, I think he made it like the
• 49:07
  Speaker 4: year right after trying to town Sui's you know, he's
• 49:10
  Speaker 4: one of you know, world's most famous actors, and yet
• 49:12
  Speaker 4: he's making this sort of really by today's standard, should
• 49:15
  Speaker 4: be considered a like an independent film, like an art
• 49:17
  Speaker 4: house film. And it's shot in I think a shot
• 49:20
  Speaker 4: in North Africa, in Barcelona for sure, in in London too,
• 49:25
  Speaker 4: but it's also right it's like the year before Franco
• 49:29
  Speaker 4: dies of the year, you know, so it's like it's
• 49:31
  Speaker 4: like a unique.
• 49:32
  Speaker 2: Time and history.
• 49:33
  Speaker 4: The scenes places, so you'll see parts of Barcelona in
• 49:35
  Speaker 4: a way that like you know, treasure of these galludy buildings.
• 49:38
  Speaker 4: And there's also so much space in the film itself.
• 49:40
  Speaker 4: There's like it's like a atmospheric like ambient space. There's
• 49:44
  Speaker 4: like not it's not flood to a dialogue, but there's
• 49:46
  Speaker 4: a plot and there's like a little bit of a
• 49:48
  Speaker 4: mystery to it. And uh Antonioni's one of my favorite
• 49:51
  Speaker 4: directors and just so like just and he has a
• 49:53
  Speaker 4: sense of cultivating like atmosphere that just really it's like meditative,
• 49:57
  Speaker 4: you know. It's really it's a great film to see
• 49:59
  Speaker 4: in the movie theater if you ever have the opportunity,
• 50:01
  Speaker 4: Like there's over like a retrospect, so.
• 50:02
  Speaker 2: That film, I do I love bad Land is.
• 50:06
  Speaker 4: Like you know by you know, Terrence Mallet's fairst film
• 50:08
  Speaker 4: was a film that was like I can go back
• 50:10
  Speaker 4: to every few years for sure that I you know,
• 50:12
  Speaker 4: I really love I feel like The Phantom Spread, you know, I.
• 50:15
  Speaker 2: Feel like that's actually like a really like a perfect film.
• 50:18
  Speaker 4: There's so many films all over the place, so it
• 50:20
  Speaker 4: seems from marriage Bart Bergman's like, amazing, I'll say a
• 50:23
  Speaker 4: different thing.
• 50:23
  Speaker 2: And I also to you know, what I really love
• 50:25
  Speaker 2: is Fastbenders, Uh, Ali.
• 50:30
  Speaker 4: Fury, It's The Soul. That's a really great film. It's
• 50:32
  Speaker 4: like really different from his work, is like it just
• 50:35
  Speaker 4: has a different vibe. But there's something so tinmeless about
• 50:39
  Speaker 4: this story, sadly true about human nature, and it read
• 50:44
  Speaker 4: you know, it's made like early seventies, but somehow it's
• 50:48
  Speaker 4: there's a commonality that resonates to say as much as
• 50:50
  Speaker 4: it would then, but there's also a sweetness and a
• 50:52
  Speaker 4: love story to it as well. And yeah, I can
• 50:56
  Speaker 4: go back and watch that film every few years too.
• 50:58
  Speaker 4: Ali Fears The Soul and I love Tony Tony Irtman too.
• 51:01
  Speaker 4: It's a great film to the came a couple of
• 51:02
  Speaker 4: years ago.
• 51:03
  Speaker 3: Cool Okay, I'm watching all of them because I'm in
• 51:06
  Speaker 3: a slump.
• 51:07
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, if you haven't seen some of the Tony
• 51:09
  Speaker 2: Ergan's really good too.
• 51:10
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Is there anything else about the new album you
• 51:15
  Speaker 3: want to talk about? Or do you want to talk
• 51:16
  Speaker 3: about the tour? Is there anything you wanted to sort
• 51:19
  Speaker 3: of get in before we sign off?
• 51:22
  Speaker 2: Just really excited.
• 51:23
  Speaker 4: I mean, I know it's probably like the job of
• 51:24
  Speaker 4: like a you know, I think of a band to
• 51:26
  Speaker 4: be sort of raw rah rah on you know, the
• 51:29
  Speaker 4: new record and so forth, but it was really like
• 51:31
  Speaker 4: something that we felt like really great about and it
• 51:34
  Speaker 4: just felt like sometimes I think you it's such a
• 51:37
  Speaker 4: I remember something like reading this interviewsue with Kee from
• 51:41
  Speaker 4: Gods like years ago, or seeing something I don't remember
• 51:44
  Speaker 4: how long ago was, but something he said really resonated
• 51:46
  Speaker 4: to me in a way that maybe even then I
• 51:48
  Speaker 4: didn't understand because I hadn't I don't know what stage
• 51:51
  Speaker 4: of recording I was at, but it was something about
• 51:53
  Speaker 4: I think along the lines of like when you record
• 51:56
  Speaker 4: a song or whatever, like the version of the recording.
• 51:58
  Speaker 2: That you make becomes the song.
• 52:01
  Speaker 4: You know, maybe you play the like countless other times,
• 52:03
  Speaker 4: and that recording is the song, you know, and sometimes
• 52:06
  Speaker 4: like that version that can go on away. You know,
• 52:09
  Speaker 4: you write a song, you rehearse it a lot of times,
• 52:12
  Speaker 4: and that maybe you know, everything can go any resurrection
• 52:15
  Speaker 4: when you're making a record, you know what I mean.
• 52:17
  Speaker 2: But whatever version you released becomes the song itself.
• 52:20
  Speaker 4: So it's like, yeah, I don't know if that makes sense,
• 52:22
  Speaker 4: but to me, that really resonated.
• 52:23
  Speaker 2: I was like, oh, wow, okay, that's actually like really and.
• 52:26
  Speaker 4: I think it would take from someone who's who's done
• 52:28
  Speaker 4: this that you understand or you know, to feel it
• 52:30
  Speaker 4: because you're like, wow, that's really becomes like maybe you
• 52:33
  Speaker 4: had an off day that one day, or maybe like
• 52:35
  Speaker 4: two days later when better, or maybe if you had
• 52:37
  Speaker 4: just done this one of a thing. It really takes
• 52:39
  Speaker 4: like a piece like finding peace, being like, well, this
• 52:43
  Speaker 4: is what we said and this is the document that
• 52:45
  Speaker 4: we made, and therefore we need to move on.
• 52:47
  Speaker 2: And I think that's what you have to eventually do.
• 52:50
  Speaker 2: I think of the making of this record, though, I
• 52:51
  Speaker 2: felt like really like really good.
• 52:53
  Speaker 4: About everything, all of our choices, and we certainly had
• 52:56
  Speaker 4: like you know, some hurdles along the way and so
• 52:58
  Speaker 4: forth that we had to take, you know, make and
• 53:01
  Speaker 4: but I feel like just the record we made, it's
• 53:03
  Speaker 4: like a really cohesive album. And obviously we're the same people.
• 53:06
  Speaker 4: We're so in a pool, and you know we're gonna
• 53:08
  Speaker 4: have the sexibility will be there, you know, and may
• 53:10
  Speaker 4: be recognizable.
• 53:11
  Speaker 2: But I do think it's like an evolution.
• 53:13
  Speaker 4: I think it's a progressive record and I don't know,
• 53:16
  Speaker 4: it feels like a great next chapter for us, and
• 53:18
  Speaker 4: also one that just like really felt like nothing is
• 53:21
  Speaker 4: forced about it. Just probably this is like what we
• 53:23
  Speaker 4: said next, and this is something that I think we've
• 53:24
  Speaker 4: been aspiring to say for a while and I think
• 53:27
  Speaker 4: we've arrived with this with this album.
• 53:29
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I agree, it's a really really good Interpol album.
• 53:32
  Speaker 3: And I saw I know you don't pay attention to critics,
• 53:35
  Speaker 3: but I did see the Guardian called it your masterpiece.
• 53:40
  Speaker 4: I had just heard that they had actually hears that word.
• 53:43
  Speaker 4: And this is such a while that. I mean, it's
• 53:45
  Speaker 4: like where your brain's like, wait what you know, you know,
• 53:49
  Speaker 4: I'll take it. But that's really amazing the year, you know,
• 53:52
  Speaker 4: that's really.
• 53:53
  Speaker 3: Yeah, best of luck with all of it, have fun
• 53:55
  Speaker 3: on tour, and thank you so much for doing this.
• 53:57
  Speaker 3: I appreciate your time, Thank you.
• 53:59
  Speaker 2: So Lovely, a chatting fun.
• 54:04
  Speaker 1: An episode description, you'll find a link to a playlist
• 54:06
  Speaker 1: of our favorite in a poll songs. You should to
• 54:08
  Speaker 1: check out YouTube dot com slash Broken Record podcast to
• 54:11
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• 54:13
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• 54:17
  Speaker 1: Record is produced and edited by Leah Rose, with marketing
• 54:19
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• 54:22
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• 54:43
  Speaker 1: Our theme music's by Kenny Beats. I'm justin Richmond.