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We Stopped Fighting About Screen Time (Our Summer Screen Contract) · The Catholic Couple

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: There's a moment that happens in a lot of homes during the summer.
• 0:03
  SPEAKER_00: I know we experience this.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_00: Your kids wake up and before they're even fully even awake, they're asking about getting on screens.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_00: They want to play games, they want to watch something, they just want to know if they can just get on their devices.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_01: And if we're honest, this has been a real struggle in our house, uh, not because screens are bad or evil, but because we're starting to just notice how quickly they could become the center of the day.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_01: It the first things that our kids would think of, especially Brayden, when they wake up.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_00: And the thing that they're waiting for, the thing that they're always negotiating for is how they can get on a screen.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_00: So we found ourselves having these same conversations over and over again.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_01: Like, can I play now?
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_01: What about now?
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_01: Uh in a little bit?
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_01: How how long can I be on it?
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, just one game?
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_01: Can I just look up something?
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_01: Can I make sure my streaks are on?
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_01: You know, all of these things.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_01: And so we we sat down and we're like, how can we not have the same argument every day, right?
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_01: What is there a way to incentivize these screens, um, minimize their use, and be able to still have our kids go outside and play?
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we don't want to continue to have these negotiations back and forth.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_00: So this summer we decided to approach things a little bit differently.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_00: We created a simple family contract that made all the expectations clear about what we're gonna stick to, how we are gonna get screens, how we earn those, and how we're not gonna renegotiate every single day.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I think that it's working really well with set in stone of the how-to, and now we can just enjoy summer.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_00: So we're not perfect.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_00: Some of these ideas we're gonna lay out for you.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_00: We're gonna try to help you take power over this biggest problem that most parents have, this battle of modern family life, which is screens, how we can use them well, how we can set up these boundaries and have some responsibility attached to it.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_00: So if this conversation sounds interesting, uh appreciate it if you like, share, subscribe.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, every week we put together a show.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_00: And we want to thank our sponsors of this episode, saintlysociety.com.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_00: This awesome hat, beautiful sweatshirts that they are gracious enough to send to us.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_00: But we want to thank our friends over there.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_00: Go check them out, saintlysociety.com.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_00: Well, summer changes everything.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know about you, but in our household, we get out of our normal routines of getting up, going to school, and all those things that come with that.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_00: So for us, we realized that summer was an opportunity for us to try to change and to direct the summer instead of the summer directing us.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_00: So we're gonna talk in this episode about why summer changes everything.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_00: We're gonna talk about our family contract that we made for screens and what that looks like.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_00: We're gonna talk about how things have changed so much from when we were kids, about what summers actually look like to what kids are actually wanting to do and some a little bit of education on screens in general.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_00: So, just first and foremost, welcome back.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_00: It's nice to have you back on the podcast.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_00: She was in Wyoming on a trip and just super busy.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_00: So it's good to have Katie back here on the episode.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_00: So, why does, as an educator yourself, why is summer so challenging for parents, you think?
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_01: No, I think that um you nailed it when you said you're just out of a typical routine.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_01: I think for any, whether you're kids or parents, I think we all like a little routine.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_01: Even being in the camp in Wyoming, we had pr we needed some predictability, right?
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_01: Like when breakfast, luncheon, and dinner time was the different things that we did um each time before those meals or um in different moments of the day, just starting to get into the routine of when um even we shower, brush teeth, you know, like I feel like we're just all creatures of we can't do chaos well, right?
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_01: And so the summer gives the opportunity, yes, to slow down, yes, to reconnect with family, but also we can't let it uh let certain things just take over our days.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that this I started small with this last year because I was still working, I still work through the month of June.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_01: And then I go back the last week of July.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_01: So I would um have a sign because you were still work, you know, you were at work.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I'd had a sign up that said wanna play question mark, and then had like four things checked up, like you gotta do these four things before even playing outside, you know.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_01: And so now with the with the introduction introduction more of more screen time and being on our iPads or playing these games, it's just now it's want to play this, and so it just brought it into another level.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_01: So we're gonna break down like this contract that we made a one pager, nothing complicated.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_01: We don't want to overcomplicate things, but I feel like kids and adults, if it's more set in stone, it's easier to follow if it's something that's written up and agreed upon.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_00: We don't want to be the screen please 24-7.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_00: No, and that's what it feels like, and I'm sure a lot of you are watching, listening, that's what it feels like.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_00: It's like you're always saying no, like because it's very hard to compete with something that is created to make it so addictive.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_00: And I know myself that I have I struggle with this, so imagine what that's like for a kid, yeah, especially as the games get better and they're more incentivized.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_00: Every game is like I gotta get these skins or this other thing, or I gotta add the streak.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_00: So they are you know these built into this addictive nature to it.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, the the streak stuff.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, they do that with all these apps have like which is cool.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_01: Halo has it too, like your prayer streak, you know, like that it is a thing, but at the same time, yeah, it's like this, I gotta get my this and you know, so and summer, there's just more free time, right?
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_00: So, okay, we have a lot of free time, that's great.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, parents still have to work and and those kinds of things, but the kids have a lot, they don't have school, so there's a lot of hours in the day that they would fill up, and the easiest thing for them is like, well, I'm off school.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_00: Why can't I just watch screens all day?
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_00: Or why can't I play my Switch all day?
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_00: Why can't I be on YouTube all day?
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_00: And and I think that's part of what I'm sure a lot of you, I know we're dealing with it.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_00: So summer is a time where, as St.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_00: John Paul II would always remind us, it's a time to get outside, to be creative, to use those this extra time to not waste it on screens.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_00: There's productive things that can happen on screens, and we're gonna get into that about how we are integrating screens into the summer as far as not just wasting time, which they can earn time to waste, right?
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_00: But there's time to to use it to get smarter, to be more resilient, to do those kinds of things.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_00: But St.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_00: John Paul II, he's always reminding us of creating that space to be outside.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, summer is that opportunity, but like just was it yesterday or today?
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_00: Brayden was like, Well, all kids my age, like we think going outside's lame now.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_00: Like, wait, no, okay.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_00: All right, now you guys are doing it conspiring together so you guys can get more screen time.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_00: It's like no like there's nothing better than getting outside.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_00: And once they're out there, they enjoy it.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_00: But it's hard to do that.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_01: It was really beautiful being in Wyoming.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, you know, the kids didn't have phones for the entire trip.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_01: And when we talked about it at the end, like what was like a like about all the highs of the trip, and uh a student did say to me, I love that we didn't have our phones, and like that everybody just socialized, and where was no, it was complete freedom to not have that.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_00: I think the problem is that it has to be everybody, it has to be everybody, and when everybody can do it, then it makes sense.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_00: But when it's like, hey, you know, five kids are on it, and then everyone feels like they're being left out because then the conversation is revolves around the screens, but everybody does it, then it's okay.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_00: And I like the fact that a lot of schools are doing that now.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_01: Well, it's a law in Indiana, Indiana, it's a law, but um like from bell to bell, no, no no.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_00: No screens, so I I hope I hope uh other states will start to adapt that because what ends up happening is is that there's always gonna be some kids who are doing it, and it's always gonna feel like we're left out or I'm missing something, but it takes other parents to have the courage to wanna to like how to how to set these parameters, how to have these guidelines, to have healthy relationships with technology.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_01: I think with all things though, we need to, if whether it's good or bad, well, okay, all good things need to be done in moderation.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_01: So we need to be modeling that in all ways for our kids through food, alcohol, our own screen uses, um, things that are good can be overindulged.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_01: And that's the same with this.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_01: So it's all about temperance and and teaching, teaching your kids how to have those temperance and how to have that control.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_01: So, like the so let me just start going over the actual agreement.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_01: So we listed our family motto.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_01: We did an episode on that, what we love God by praying daily, working hard, loving others, and we just added we can do hard things.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so it's the same thing that I spoke about, like wanna play before TV, iPad, YouTube, video games, hanging out, even with friends, wanna play either on your device or uh with outside.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_01: These things have to be done.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_01: So, one, is your bed made?
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_01: Is your room picked up?
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_01: You have to read for 20 minutes.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_01: And then that those were the things that I did last year.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, I just added one chore a day.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_01: So, like they had to, you know, have a clean room and read for 20 minutes.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_01: And then I said, you know, then I would list a specific chore each one of them needed to do daily.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_01: What we did was we sat down and we said, there's more, there's more that we want them to be doing, especially with Avery wanting to try out for a club volleyball team, Braydons in baseball.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_01: We wanted them to incorporate some kind of workout every day, something physical that they do intentionally, intentional physical um activity.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_01: So whether it's some kind of sports training or workout or specific skill that they want to work on.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_01: So we added, yeah, we added that in some kind of training, sports, exercise, practice, something that's intentional on getting to be a better athlete or have some uh increased strength, stamina, um, whatever whatever.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then to check in with a parent for that extra chore.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_01: So uh when I was leaving them, you know, to to kind of do their checklist.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_01: And then uh before, you know, while I was at at work, I would add things like make sure, you know, I would add actually Avery would have the floors mopped, or um, you know, like a cycle of chores between her and Braden that they would have to do.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_01: Nothing crazy, but like one thing, one thing uh a day that I added extra.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_01: And then it was important.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_00: But it isn't just doing a chore, it's also letting it's the way that we have these conversations.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_00: This isn't just something that we're giving them to do, we're teaching them the responsibility.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_00: You live here too.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_00: That they they need to this isn't punishment.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_00: This is just part of life that you are old enough where you can help.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_00: You got two hands.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_01: Just these expectations, these are, and this is under the basics.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_01: Did you do the basics?
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_01: Did you make your bed?
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_01: Did you clean your room?
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_01: Did you read for 20 minutes?
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_01: Did you do some kind of intentional training for your body?
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_01: So you took care of your space, your stuff, your body, your mind.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then now that you're home right now, we added in the component of a screen time or something um that is a book book wise of learning something new.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_01: So they can go um and do an IXL fast math con academy, math academy um lesson, or some kind of parent-approved learning tool, whether that I think there's like books and things like that, something where they're learning something different and new before just using that screen as a plaything.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_01: And then we also, so that's all the before you do anything, these things need to happen.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_01: And then and then screen rules altogether.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_01: If it's a nice day, we said we were trying to think of, you know, how we didn't want to be like overly strict, but like Braden would get everything done, wake up at like five in the morning and get all these things done, and then you know, um want to be on it, or some stupid thing was at one o'clock, or you know, whatever.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_01: So we said, if it's nice weather from 11 a.m.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_01: to 7 p.m., screens are off.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_01: Summer happens outside, ride your bike, play something, build something, explore, go swimming, play with friends, just be kids.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_01: So before 11 a.m., screens are allowed if the checklist is done.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_01: And after 7 p.m., screens are allowed if the checklist is done.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_01: And then we added a rainy day, um, like uh what is that called?
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_01: Not loophole.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_01: What's the not exception?
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_01: Kind of rainy day.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um, there's a legal term I wanted to use, but I'm not thinking of it right.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_01: A rainy day uh changes the plans, the apparent.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_01: So because we're like, we're we don't know.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um so this is just it's so it's almost like they're uh especially Bray like Avery and I have been in Wyoming and we've only been in the summer a couple weeks now, but Braden seems to be responding to that really well.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_01: Like he's not even asking.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_01: He he's like, I mean, hey, hey, what's up?
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I made my bed.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I read for 20 minutes.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_01: I uh I did all these pull-ups on the pull-up bar in the garage.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_01: I did this, this, and this.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_01: He rattles off all the things that he did, and he's like, Okay, am I good now?
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_01: It's like they just know the expectation.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um and they just do it, you know.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um, Avery might be a little bit different.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know, because Brayden's usually that's kind of what Brayden likes, because he even said, he said, What do I have to do to get this much time um on the device?
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_01: Because during the school year, we do have those rules too.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_01: Uh there is no screens during the week at all.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so on the weekend we have to we we do earnings, but it's just different in the summer because there is so much more free time.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but but I don't think the the option is no screens at all all summer.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_00: Like there has to be some some kind of prudence in in the judgment of how we do this because if you just try to say no no at all, then they're gonna go to their friends.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_00: They're gonna have, we're trying to build these healthy relationships to technology.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_00: You know, Pope Leo XIV, he just talked about, he released a document on AI, Magnifica Humanitas, where he talks about that this is this isn't uh good or bad, this is morally neutral, how we use technology.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_00: But he specifically talks about technology with family within there, and it's setting these boundaries, having these guidelines.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_00: Boundaries are good things, especially for kids, because they want to know where where the line is at.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_00: So they'll get all the way up to the line, right?
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_00: And that's okay.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_00: But the kids who are you know are gonna want to negotiate and keep negotiating, like they're gonna always be pushing, but you have to stay firm on this because once you bend once, then they think that that is the expectation that all they gotta do is whine, complain, and then you're gonna bend.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_00: But if you can hold to that law, even if it's you know, it's you know, 11 30, you know, it's like, well, no, it's past 11 o'clock.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_00: Sorry.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_00: It's like this is what this is what the rule is.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_00: We don't have to be super rigid, but what we're teaching them is that we're we're gonna stick to the to these rules.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_00: Like we we're not gonna just bend because I got something to do and I want to put you in front of a screen so you can leave me alone because I have something else to do.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_01: And that's unfortunately what I think that a lot of you know, COVID when a lot of people were working from home and had their kids at home with them.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_01: That is the side effect of that because there was nothing else that you could really do.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_01: And a lot of our kids during that formative time that was used as a babysitter to to no no one's fault because it was like, what else could you do?
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I think the other main issue is this idea of being okay with being bored.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know about you guys, but I hear that all the time.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_00: I'm bored.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_01: This is boring.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_01: This is boring.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_01: Good.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_00: Good learning new things.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_00: And that's the the refrain.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_00: It's like we have to be okay with being bored because what do we do when we're in the grocery store, we're eight in the line, we pull out our phones, we check our emails, we're doing those things.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm guilty of that.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_00: I I know I do that a lot.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_00: But there are times though when I am intentional and I'll keep my phone in and then I'll just engage with the with the clerk to be in the moment.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_00: But our kids, they don't know what it's like to be bored because they they've they have access to all this things.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_00: But remember what summers were like when you were a kid?
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_00: When I was a kid, like those are like the magical times.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_00: I think about the sand lot, and like those kids, they just would get up and would live to go outside and play with their friends to play baseball, to go to the pool, to go to carnivals, to go do those things.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_00: And if I'm honest and I look back on my life, some of the best times in my life was in the summers.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_00: Like we were playing sports, but we, you know, we would stay out to the streetlights would come on, and then we'd run home.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_00: We play manhunt and kick the can, we'd be at the pool or chase each other around.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_00: Like we were all, you know, our parents knew each other.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_00: And I think we're really quick to give kids the freedom of the screens, but we don't want to extend that freedom in real life.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_00: So it we can't we can't just take away their screens and limit to you know, limit the screens without giving them freedom in the other direction to go out and beat kids to maybe explore a little bit farther, to go a little bit, you know, age appropriate.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_01: And that's where someone's like, Well, that's why my kid needs a phone.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_01: No, uh, we give walkie-talkies to our kids, and it goes as far as where the park is they can go up, yeah, and and that works out really well.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_01: Avery just got an Apple Watch, but every one of the kids in her class at this point have a phone now, but we're holding strong on the high school rule, right?
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_01: When she graduates.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_01: And Braden is going into fifth grade.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_01: He hasn't really asked for, he just wants, he just wants uh to play his games, you know, on however device you play.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_01: And that doesn't work.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_00: And that's the thing about when we were kids, we didn't have that.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_00: So what do we do?
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_01: We guys have video games, but you played the video games when you came home exhausted from playing outside.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_00: We we we wouldn't choose to play the game versus going outside.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_01: Right, right.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_01: Whatever that was.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I think that I think that we have to be careful to not be like back in my day, right?
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_01: Like, this isn't back in your day.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_01: This is now, and this is the social norm.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_01: But if if you say if you completely take it away as not an option, that's when you're gonna have issues.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_01: But you need to have that balance and teach them moderation.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I know we we've talked about Jonathan Haidt a lot.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_00: He's a he's a he's a he's a social scientist who wrote the anxious generation, the anxious mind.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_00: And the difference is, is now that the studies are out, like we know what it does to our brains, what it does to the kids' brains.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_00: This it is very hard to compete with the uh making the kids want to go outside and to learn new things and to be bored or ride their bikes.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_00: When you have to compete with something that's literally hijacking their dopaminergic system that's literally feeding them, but we see what the results are the rates of anxiety are through the roof, depression, this comparing themselves to everybody else and just looking at all the good stuff that everyone posts.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_00: So I think it takes brave parents to step up and say, no, we're we're not gonna do this.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_00: Like, hey, if your kid's got a phone, okay, you know, the problem with the phone is yes, you can use it for communication, but that's not what they use it 90% of the time for.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_00: 90% of the time is, you know, Avery was on our last show, and it's like she'll be with her friends, and then instead of hanging out with each other, they're all individually looking at their phones.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_01: I know parents that take phones when the kids all come over, they take all the phones because they want them to socialize.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_01: So they'll have a basket and say, you'll get your phone back when you leave here.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_00: But that's the excuse of why to give it to them because we need to be in contact.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_00: But the way that how we enforce that and how we how we like show how that's supposed to be done isn't, hey, when you're in a room with a group of people, you can still be lonely and you're so just isolated.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_00: And it and it's at their age, it's not, you know, it's not necessarily their fault.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_00: Like all these games, all these social media things, they're all hijacking their brains to do that.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_01: You know, there's uh I've sent it to you on Instagram.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_01: This there's all these, you know, it's a it's a conversation.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_01: It's not a you will do this and listen to me.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_01: It's a they the kids need to know the reason the whys behind the the what sometimes, you know.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_01: There's um several documentaries that you can watch with your kids.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_01: I know that Jonathan Haidt, the he wrote The Anxious Generation, but they uh gosh, I forget what they named the book.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_01: It almost was like a graphic novel, um, but it's geared towards kids and it's about screens and temperance with them and why.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_01: And it had um, and it even goes there about how these social media companies did not design social media to be just social connection, they designed it to be addictive.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I think that knowing that going in, uh you know, they say kids, you know, today are you know uh are trusting these devices.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_01: They're actually not.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_01: The generation that believes what they're reading is like the older people, but like young kids, they critically think everything that's on the internet because they don't know what to trust.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_01: They're growing up when we were when we grew up in the internet.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_01: Think about how we grew.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_01: We grew up with like, remember Ask Jeeves, you like ask Jeeves a question and give it back to you.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_01: Like the internet was something I would look to as a reference to look something up.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_01: Like if I was writing something, it would be like an encyclopedia, right?
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_01: Like, but now there's so much fake stuff out there and so many that most most of these kids are actually critically thinking it and like don't think like any like to the other side of it, like not thinking anything on the internet is real, which is kind of scary too.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_01: So helping them discern those things, but also understanding they're more open to those ideas.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_01: Like, did you know that the the you know creators of these um of these platforms made it so you'd be addictive?
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_01: So having that kind of knowledge to their own kids even.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_01: They didn't even give it to their own kids.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_01: Like just knowing those things and educating them in that way so that they really understand the whys behind the what's and then I think it helps.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's taking it to the next level than asking them those questions.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_00: So, okay, well, how does it feel when you're on the screens?
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_00: Like, are you actually getting entertained?
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_00: Do you feel more connected to your friends?
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and What do you feel like when you're off of the screens?
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_00: Does it feel like you got to get back on it?
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_00: Do you feel more anxious?
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_00: Do you feel like having them have an honest assessment about what is it doing to you when you're on it and when you're not on it?
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_00: And have those kind of conversations because if we're honest, the average person looks at their phone, you know how many times a day?
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_01: No, 205 times a day.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_00: That is the average amount of time this year.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_00: What do you think yours is?
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_00: By 500?
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_01: I think so.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_01: You're never not on it.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_01: And that's why we need to model healthy relationships with technology to where 100% guilty.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_01: Because I will say something, and all Braden has to say back to me is dad's on it, blah, blah, blah.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_01: But I'm like, mm-hmm.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I'm like, I I'm not dad's mom.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_01: I'm your mom.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_00: You're not.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_00: And and and I I know it's it's something that I struggle with, like I said, because we're doing this ministry online.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_00: I do the purposely Catholics.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_00: So it's very hard for me because I I'm constantly creating content, coming up with ideas, doing reels, doing posts.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, I've done, I think, between both posts, like 10,000 posts.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, that's uh it's a lot of original content that I'm creating.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_00: So it's still needs to be modeled.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_00: It still needs to be modeled, it still needs to be tempered, it's still need to be I I understand that I'm I'm gonna have all the excuses in the world on on what to anyway.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_01: Anyway, that's something that we're all working on, but I think having those open conversations with your kids too, saying, Yeah, you know what?
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_01: I because I put a time limit on my Instagram, um uh gosh, of like almost a year ago.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_01: And it'll tell me once it's been 15 minutes.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_01: Like, and it knocks me out and I can bypass it, of course.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_01: But then I know that it's like they're telling me.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_01: So putting putting those things on yourself as the adult and and modeling a healthy Well, I I I think the main thing it that I think most parents are struggling with is that, okay, yeah, we we understand that there's an issue.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_00: Like we need to limit screens, we want our kids to go outside, we know all these things.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_00: But I think the the moral of this whole episode is is that by setting up what seems this contract or having this agreement with our kids to have them involved in the process, but to have this set up on the front end so we can just point to that.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_00: And this is something that you agree to, we agree to, and we're not renegotiating this every day because you're bored or because there's nothing to do or no one's home or there's nothing to do.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_00: They're gonna tell you a million things, and I get it.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_00: They knock on the door of their friend's house and they're not there and they don't want to play with each other, or you're an only kid.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_00: I get it.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, it's a summer.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_00: I should be able to be a kid and relax.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_00: Great.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_00: But within those parameters that we set, if it's between 11 and 7, we're not gonna we're not gonna do this.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_00: Have you did all your your basic stuff?
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_00: And and as far as you know, the education part is what we we're really trying to hammer this year, is adding in is that the he's like, Well, this feels like it's school, it's the summer.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_00: Like, yeah, but there's you know, as you can see.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_00: You're choosing what you're learning in in this that's it because there if you just go all summer and you're not learning, you're not reading, you're not doing anything, it's like, yeah, you will have that summer slide.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you have that summer slide.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_00: So I think that's um I think that's a a big part of what we really wanted to talk about with the screens.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_00: And so far, so good.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_00: Like I said, Avery's been gone, but Braden, I mean, he's been very receptive to it because I think most people, if they know what's expected, they'll they'll rise to those expectations.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_00: But if we allow them to to dictate to us what's going on, then they're gonna always be leveraging and negotiating for more time because it is hard to negotiate with that machine because the machine is trying to get you to stay on it, it's trying to get you to want to buy these skins or buy this game or this special upgrade or these things, whether that's Roblox or even educational games like Prodigy, they're like they sell them as math games, but the the the what the kids the gamification of it where they're trying to to get these points or these streaks or these things, that it can really, really hijack their brains.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_00: And even if it's something that's trying to teach them math or reading, things like that, but it can really so we have to have those conversations about what it's doing to their brain, which which we have, but that summer is a time for not necessarily, oh, I have to do schoolwork, but that you are getting ahead, like you are keeping your brain sharp.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_00: You know, for us, we really want to have our kids love to learn.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_00: That it doesn't seem like it's a chore.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_00: Like our son loves math, and so it's math.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_00: He he loves to play, he loves to get on his IXL and to to advance his his math, you know, in in accordance to the his you know, his lessons that he's already working on in school, and that's a great resource.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_01: But when it comes to reading, he's kind of like uh, you know, like we gotta kind of like you know that's why you know reading a book of your choice for 20 minutes, not reading what book I choose for.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_00: Or the summer reading, which is separate.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, like it it's it's something that where you kind of can use that time to explore what you're into, you know, what you want to know more about.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and then once they find something they're interested, then they want to like he's on the what, the fifth Percy Jackson book.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_00: So he's into it, uh, you know, he's into the character.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I'll he'll be reading.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_00: All of a sudden I hear him laughing, he thinks it's funny, the character does something.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_00: So he he understands the responsibility because he wants to get on the screens.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_00: And what if he'll do his stuff?
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_01: But he'll just he'll do the things, you know, because they were agreed upon.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_00: So, what I guess what the some of the questions is so so what if we're struggling?
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_00: Well, say someone's watching or listening, that they're struggling with how to hold the boundaries, coming from somebody who is the person who's good at setting the foundation, holding to those rules.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_00: You are a rules-based person, you know how to set these things up, and you are very consistent in doing it.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_00: What are some lessons for some parents or some people who are watching, listening of how you do that and how do you stay consistent to hold it to that?
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_00: Because you were doing that as a teacher, you're now as a principal, and in our house, you hold the line.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_00: I I sometimes am the one who can really bend, but you do a great job of holding the line.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_00: So, what are some practical ways that you can advise people who are watching listening how to do that?
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_01: I think that one of the main reasons when you're coming up with something like this is to involve the kids in the conversation.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um sometimes they don't understand why something is the way it is, you know.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_01: So having the conversation about this is my goal, right?
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_01: This is the reason why we do this.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_01: What are ways that you think we can accomplish this goal that we have?
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_01: So then they were like, okay, let's do where can we have like like total free time after seven?
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_01: Perfect.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_01: So let's let's establish the times.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_01: Like, like we like I got the 11 to 7 from Braden because I asked him, I'm like, well, I really don't want you to be on anything until it's nighttime.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_01: He's like, well, nobody's out playing at 9 a.m., mom.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, okay, you're right.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_01: You know, um, so how about this?
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_01: If like you get all the things done, you can be on before 11.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_01: Are kids out playing at 11?
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, like so just having those conversations and involving them in it, you know, then it it creates something that they have buy-in with as well.
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_01: I and I do that as a principle for some things.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_01: Like a few years ago, girls questioned some things in the dress code, you know, and um we sat and talked things out.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um, one of their questions, they they had a question about nail polish.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_01: And uh, well, can't we just wear nude nail polish?
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_01: This is an example.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, well, because if you wear nude nail polish, there's gonna be that person that wears uh orange that thinks it's kind of close, and then the teachers become the nail police, and then that's all that like like we want them teaching.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, I'm the principal I want my teachers teaching, not worried about nail polish.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_01: And they so then we compromised and came up with the whole month of May when you're an eighth grade girl, you can get your nails done however you want.
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_01: So it was like, cool, we can do whatever we can get acrylic.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_01: We can get this, yes, for the whole month of May, your last month here, because you have dances and graduation.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_01: Like, let's do that.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_01: And then we got into other compromises like ankle socks during um dress down days, like crazy stuff.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, oh, we don't we don't know why we can't wear ankle socks on dress down days.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, I didn't know you couldn't either.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_01: You can now.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_01: Like, oh, thanks.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_01: You know, just like involving them in so it's not just so much, I said so, you do this, but understanding the why behind the what's like, listen, we are your parents.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_01: It is our job to make sure that you get to heaven, to make sure that you have that you know how to use these tools that you have at your fingertips wisely.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_01: We want um you to be a well-rounded person.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and so we have to set these limits because if you you're a kid, if if you had it your way, you'd eat sugar every day, right?
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_01: You'd have uh stay up all night.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_01: And stay up all night, right?
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_01: So as your parents, we are putting these things in place, not because we want to have control over you, but because we want you to have control over the things that want to control you, right?
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_01: So to have those conversations about what we're what these things are, how they are good, but how they could be bad, right?
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_01: And and everything though.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_01: Like we need to have these virtues instilled in our in our s in our kids while we have them now.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_01: Like we can't just give it them a free-for-all on things because it's I think harder for us to navigate it because we didn't have it as kids.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_01: So it's hard for us to right, like we can we can navigate um uh tempering or you know, uh limiting sugar and ice cream and and uh junk food.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_01: We can because our parents did it.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_01: You you you know what I mean?
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_01: So it's just a little different road to navigate, but it's the same thing.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's a it's a thing that could be a great good, but also could be a really bad thing.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_01: So we just need to help them and have them in the conversation.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_00: And it's acknowledging that yeah, the summer is different.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_00: And it and it's and I think you're you're hitting on on something that's important.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_00: It this can't just be a top-down dictatorship.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_00: Because if you want buy-in, if you want them to not fight you the whole time, you gotta give them it doesn't mean you have to reason with them.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, we're we're called to be in charge and to discipline them and to and to set these boundaries, right?
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_00: But it's also a lot easier for them to understand, like you said, the whys behind why we're doing it.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_00: Not because I have to explain myself to you, because I want you to understand, okay, well, it's not good, it's not good for your brain, it's not good for your brain.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, well, what does that mean?
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, well, this is what it's doing, and it's like you get this slow drip of dope.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_00: Like, so you can find those documentaries or you can explain to them, like, hey, when you do hard things, your brain literally is making these new connections and it's uncomfortable, but like that's how you learn.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_01: Like, so it's giving them those lessons, and even what muscle memory is and and practice, the things that like kids don't want to do to get better at a sport are the more boring, tedious things of drills over and over again.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_01: Well, that's your muscle memory.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_01: So explaining to them what muscle memory is.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_00: And that's what life is.
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_00: Those who are successful in this life do those things that seem boring, they do them consistently and they do them well.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, especially in athletics is the easiest way to explain it.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, yeah, the kids just want to play the games.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_00: But when it comes to like, hey, you got to train your footwork and your fundamentals, you're you know, for volleyball, you're you're passing your hands, you're setting, like how to, you know, doing those, hitting the ball 500 times and serving it over and over again where it gets boring.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, well, that's where you get those muscle memory, that's where you fine-tune your movements and your mechanics, but it doesn't seem like it seems boring.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_00: But what you start to learn is like in any sport or music instrument or whatever you're doing, once you have the basics down, then you have actual freedom to be able to play the game and then you can improvise.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_01: So freedom comes through boredom.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_00: Freedom comes through boredom and responsibility.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_00: It's like once we set those boundaries and and those things that we know that okay, this is how the game is played.
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_00: I can play within those boundaries, and once I know how to do it, then you can go as close as you can, all those things, and then you have freedom to express yourself the way that you want to, or to to play the game that you you know, how you want to play the game or how you want to serve or jump serve or top sprint, like you, but you have to get the basics down just like a musical instrument or just like anything.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's trying to help guide them and lead them that screens aren't just bad, right?
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_00: They're they're morally neutral, how we use them, how we can like on a rainy day, yeah, they can earn more time and and we can see that, but it has to be tempered with learning, okay.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, I'm trying to explain to Braden.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_00: The big thing with him is kids, especially boys, they love they love to watch YouTube videos of other people playing games on YouTube.
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_00: Like, which is weird.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like, I'm like, okay, so let's compromise here.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_00: Can we spend some of your even it's your free time, but trying to explain to him about what we want for him?
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_00: We want him to be successful.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_00: We want him to, when you're on YouTube, like you have the whole world at your fingertips.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_00: You can learn, like instead of playing Roblox, why don't you watch videos on how to make your own engineer your own games and how to do those kinds of things?
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_00: He's like, Oh, he's like, Oh, I can do that.
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, Yeah, you can do anything.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_00: Like, why can't you like you're into math?
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_00: Well, why don't you watch videos on like how to get better at math or how to be an engineer or how to build things like or nature or biology?
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you can use the YouTube for good instead of watching mindless brain rot stuff where you're just watching other people.
• 35:19
  SPEAKER_01: It's called brain rot.
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_00: Watching other people live their lives, like you're watching them make money and play the games.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_00: You're watching, you're just like a spectator, but why don't you do things so that you can be, you know, your own creator and then you can do those things.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_00: And he's like, Okay, yeah, I didn't really think about it like that.
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_00: So you know, it's those conversations he's still watching those.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_00: Of course he is, because it's because that you know, that's the way they can kind of just shut their brain off and just kind of like laugh and be silly.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_00: I know.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_00: But if that's only what it is, right?
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_00: But if that's only what it is, it's like, yeah, you're gonna be unhealthy.
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_00: So if this conversation helps you at all, I want to hear from you about what are some things that you are doing that is helping you not have to be the screen please 24-7.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_00: What are some things that are helping you with these healthy boundaries and relationships uh with technology, with screens, anything that's working with you, share it in the comments so we can share it with other people.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_01: Or we can steal from you.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, we can steal.
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_01: This is what's working for now.
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_01: But they're only getting older and it might get harder.
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_00: So if you found this helpful, we appreciate you hit that subscribe button, like and share it.
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_00: It really helps us get it out there.
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_00: We have these weekly episodes.
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, we really enjoy doing this.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_00: I want to thank Katie for sitting down here and thank Saintly Society.
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, if you like this hat and the shirt, they just got such great stuff.
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_00: We're we're super pumped about this partnership.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_00: So God bless you and have a beautiful day.