Latest / The Christian Reeve Podcast / Poppy Lister (Part 3 - Poppy Discusses Mental Health, Writing, & More!) | The Christian Reeve Podcast | #106 |

Transcript

Poppy Lister (Part 3 - Poppy Discusses Mental Health, Writing, & More!) | The Christian Reeve Podcast | #106 | · The Christian Reeve Podcast

• 0:00
  Hello, and welcome to another episode of the Christian Reef
• 0:02
  podcast. This is the third and final
• 0:05
  installment in a three-part, series of interviews, with Papi
• 0:08
  Lister. I hope you enjoy it.
• 0:10
  So, let's move on to mental health.
• 0:14
  So there are various different places that I could begin my
• 0:20
  line of questioning with regards to this.
• 0:23
  But I guess I want to kind of take it back to the beginning
• 0:28
  and talk about, Where your difficulties and struggles with
• 0:33
  mental health began, where was that kind of first initial
• 0:36
  moment I think there was quite a few different moments that were
• 0:42
  kind of like that might be a problem kind of.
• 0:46
  So I think that my my journey with like counseling and therapy
• 0:53
  started really young. I was in like you three in
• 0:56
  school. Remember I wrote this like,
• 0:59
  Really sad story. And I don't remember what the
• 1:01
  sad story was about, but it was enough to get my teachers
• 1:05
  attention. And, you know, she found my
• 1:07
  parents and they got me into therapy because it turned out
• 1:10
  that I was, I was quite sad about a lot of things and, you
• 1:14
  know, I don't really remember what it was because obviously,
• 1:17
  it was such a long time ago, but it kind of showed that, you
• 1:21
  know, there was something there, there was something there for a
• 1:24
  long time and, you know, I was quite an anxious child.
• 1:29
  Child. You know, I was worried about
• 1:32
  talking to other people and that's where it started.
• 1:36
  So but then, you know, it's hard to tell because I was so young
• 1:42
  at the time, I wasn't really, you know, I can't remember, I
• 1:44
  can't tell you what I was sad about or why I felt like that,
• 1:48
  but then moving into secondary school and I think that's where
• 1:51
  it mostly started. You know, that transition from
• 1:55
  primary school, Secondary School, it just changed
• 1:58
  everything for me. Obviously, you took part in in
• 2:04
  counseling, a school to sort of help you with this.
• 2:07
  So was the canceling, any Goods? I mean, because you hear very
• 2:11
  mixed responses as far as like, counseling this concerned
• 2:14
  certainly School counseling. Did it work for?
• 2:18
  You? Were they helpful in any way?
• 2:19
  Was it good? Was it bad?
• 2:21
  Talk to us a little bit about that.
• 2:24
  You know, I quite liked my counselor, we got on quite well
• 2:28
  you know, we'd have All these discussions and, you know, he
• 2:31
  helped me a lot with getting help from the NHS.
• 2:34
  So, you know, he got me into getting actual therapy.
• 2:37
  The therapy that I had in the school, wasn't amazing.
• 2:40
  You know, it didn't really do anything for me, but it kind of
• 2:42
  introduced me to, you know, all the help that I could receive.
• 2:48
  And I was lucky that I quite got along with him.
• 2:51
  And, you know, it got me out of math, so, you know, bonus, but I
• 2:56
  think it was more of a stepping stone for me, rather than
• 2:59
  Anything else? It kind of showed me that.
• 3:01
  Yeah, I did need to get help and that something was wrong rather
• 3:04
  than you know this wasn't the start of me, you know, having
• 3:08
  actual therapy or anything. It was just having someone to
• 3:11
  talk to and someone telling me what was going on and me being
• 3:16
  able to understand. So I couldn't say anything bad
• 3:21
  about my counselor in school at all.
• 3:23
  He was it was amazing. But it wasn't.
• 3:28
  It wasn't therapy, really, it was just a discussion. and, Like
• 3:37
  what kind of things were you actually suffering from?
• 3:39
  So, obviously, we spoke a little bit before about the fact that
• 3:42
  you were briefly experiencing hallucinations, things like
• 3:46
  that. Obviously we know that you were
• 3:49
  having difficulties, you know, with regards to emotions with
• 3:53
  the emotional dysfunction and everything, she had a lot of
• 3:57
  different things to contend with and a lot of things on your
• 4:03
  plate but were there anything that would just To Mental
• 4:06
  Health. The fell outside of those health
• 4:10
  conditions that you were dealing with anything that, you know.
• 4:15
  Just kind of inhibited day-to-day schooling and stuff
• 4:18
  like that. Yeah, so I was bullied quite a
• 4:23
  lot and not necessarily by people in my year.
• 4:27
  I was quite lucky in the fact that you know people my are
• 4:29
  people that knew me we all tended to get on really well, it
• 4:32
  wasn't a problem but there were people from other schools.
• 4:36
  They want my on my walks to school, all right.
• 4:39
  Okay. And one that is always telling
• 4:42
  me I was about 13 or 14. And this group of guys sick
• 4:48
  formers from a different school, you know, came over start
• 4:52
  picking on me, calling me names. They ripped my shirt and, you
• 4:59
  know, they put Chuck my bag on the floor.
• 5:02
  And from that point on, I was just terrified to walk to school
• 5:07
  and it wasn't going to school. That was a problem.
• 5:09
  Like, I was, you know, and never loved school, but I didn't mind,
• 5:13
  you know, being there. It was It was the actual trip
• 5:17
  there and back between home and school.
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  That was that was difficult for me for a really long time.
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  And I had to get my granddad had to give me lift to and from
• 5:29
  school every day or my mum would have to do it.
• 5:32
  Otherwise I would not go. I just refused.
• 5:36
  So was that nothing ever done about those particular people?
• 5:41
  Because I mean it sounds like you had to just basically
• 5:45
  reorganize your life around that rather than it is sort of being
• 5:50
  dealt with that was nothing done about it at all.
• 5:53
  No, nothing was done about it, but I didn't tell anyone, right?
• 5:58
  This was something that I just kept myself because I was, I
• 6:01
  don't know why. I just felt embarrassed about,
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  like, you know, I'd have to go and tell someone that, you know,
• 6:08
  this bunch of guys picked on me. And, you know, they did all
• 6:11
  these things, and they said all these things, and for me, but
• 6:14
  being 13 or 14, it was embarrassing.
• 6:17
  I didn't want anyone to know that happened to me so I was
• 6:22
  anxious and I did School. And that was it, you know, if I
• 6:26
  didn't take myself to school and if someone offered to take me to
• 6:29
  go, I'll go. If they didn't then I wouldn't
• 6:32
  you know and people asked a lot but what happened?
• 6:36
  I just wouldn't say that then. Hmm.
• 6:40
  So Was that kind of like where it ended?
• 6:43
  I know this might sound like a bit of a naive question but I
• 6:46
  mean it's interesting to me that obviously didn't get any
• 6:48
  bullying from your school. You got it from other scores.
• 6:51
  I've seen that. I never personally.
• 6:54
  I mean I sort of had a little bit of that but mostly the
• 6:59
  Boolean came from from people I went to school with.
• 7:03
  So is that where it ended or Was that more later on or I don't
• 7:09
  know, sometimes people experience bullying even in
• 7:11
  adult life. This is a real thing is that
• 7:14
  kind of the end of it or did it persist beyond that.
• 7:20
  So with that particular group there was nothing really more of
• 7:22
  that. It was just this I think it
• 7:24
  happen once or twice maybe but then I have bullying, you know,
• 7:31
  elsewhere and it wasn't just like it was in school.
• 7:34
  It was like I just be going out. And then people say stuff and,
• 7:39
  you know, I had to go, there was a girl from my school, that did
• 7:41
  believe me, but I was so naive. I didn't realize she was
• 7:46
  bullying me because it was behind my back.
• 7:50
  It was only when I think I was out in like the High Street once
• 7:54
  and I've seen her and she's taken a video of me and is like
• 7:59
  laughing and stuff. And I didn't really think
• 8:02
  anything of it and I thought you should probably kiss a girl look
• 8:05
  who I saw. Go but then one of my friends
• 8:08
  showed me what she'd said and it was it was horrible the things
• 8:13
  that she was saying on it and that's when I realized that
• 8:17
  actually like I was being bullied by her and I considered
• 8:20
  her a friend and tonight and some of the things she was
• 8:25
  saying to me face-to-face was bullying but I didn't realize
• 8:29
  it. So that was kind of a big
• 8:32
  wake-up call for me that I needed to be, you know, more
• 8:36
  We're of what, what was going on around me?
• 8:40
  Was she that part of that chav contingent or was she?
• 8:44
  And what would you say? Like I know for those wondering
• 8:48
  why I'm asking this question. Obviously, you're part of the
• 8:53
  alternative crowd and, you know, I was part of the alternative
• 8:56
  ground when I grew up. So I got a lot of that and you
• 8:59
  get used to it, you know, a few hundred different people, call
• 9:02
  you emo goth. I don't know.
• 9:05
  They just they then, you know, they mostly, it's not very
• 9:09
  creative but, you know, it's just something you have to
• 9:11
  accept. Hey, I look different.
• 9:13
  I'm wearing eyeliner, and wearing all black, I'm whatever.
• 9:15
  Like, I'm gonna get targeted. I look different.
• 9:20
  But yeah, what Was this person, like from the chaff crowd with
• 9:24
  another alternative person, which would be really weird.
• 9:27
  Well, where was their kind of background?
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  They were, they were very popular in school when Daddy say
• 9:34
  they were a child but they weren't really part of like any
• 9:37
  of those like you know, I hate this but stereotypes, you know.
• 9:43
  And you know she was quite popular.
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  I think that lots of people really liked about the same
• 9:49
  time. Not people really didn't like
• 9:50
  her so she probably Bleah happily from other people as
• 9:53
  well. But we think she was being
• 9:56
  bullied. I think that I'm not sure
• 9:59
  whether it was bullying, but I know a lot of people didn't
• 10:02
  particularly like reasons, but I always been really nice to her.
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  And that was why I was really confused.
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  I was like, I've always liked, you know, we were friends.
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  I've always been nice to you. We sit and we talk about stuff
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  and And yeah it just it was that trust that was broken down that
• 10:25
  was really a problem for me. I can relate to this one of the
• 10:30
  guests to had on my Show. Recently you might know as well
• 10:32
  Lydia person we spoke about bullying so I won't be count.
• 10:36
  My experience is too much if you want to hear them you can go
• 10:39
  check that episode up but what I will say is I mentioned my
• 10:43
  experiences and it's directly relates to yours.
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  You know you start being friends with someone and they bully you
• 10:49
  later and I didn't realize that I I saw it for what it was,
• 10:54
  initially as being like em, this is like targeted.
• 10:58
  They called it banter. You know, it's just banter.
• 11:01
  It's just fun. Like don't be so, don't be such
• 11:04
  a wuss, whatever, you know. But I noticed it would always be
• 11:07
  particular people. They'd always be the people that
• 11:09
  didn't fight back as much and, you know, like I wasn't really
• 11:13
  wasn't really into that. You know, I had low self-esteem
• 11:15
  so why didn't you know, it's always an easy target and
• 11:19
  obviously it got worse as the years went on in.
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  Till what? Eventually it literally, I
• 11:22
  stopped being friends them and it literally became bullying at
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  like 16, 17, which was really embarrassing for me, because
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  it's like, I'm basically like nearly an adult and this is
• 11:32
  happening. This can't be right.
• 11:33
  I thought adults didn't get fully, you know?
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  I mean, so just bring it back to you.
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  So like, did you did you ever get a apology from this person
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  at all or anything like that? I mean, I don't think anyone
• 11:48
  ever got an apology from this person.
• 11:49
  This person was, you know, It wasn't just me that this that
• 11:53
  she did it to, you know, there was multiple people and I think
• 11:58
  that, you know Karma comes back around and by the end of the,
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  you know, we are the end of school, she had no friends and
• 12:08
  interesting. Interesting.
• 12:10
  What did you know that people realize that she was, you know,
• 12:16
  being quite to face to people and was, you know, saying all
• 12:19
  these horrible things? And at that point, Point.
• 12:21
  It was like, okay, no, she's doing this to everyone.
• 12:25
  So if she's like, you know, saying, horrible things about
• 12:27
  another person to you. She's saying, horrible things
• 12:30
  about you to a different person and it just became like, and
• 12:35
  there was a couple of girls that did this in my school and it
• 12:38
  was, I'm not sure why they did it, whether it's for attention,
• 12:43
  or whether they thought it was funny or whatever.
• 12:45
  But by the end of it, like people just grew sick of it and
• 12:49
  stopped associating with them. I think that most people, you
• 12:55
  know, would take the side of the person that's being bullied.
• 12:59
  Luckily, because, you know, in school, I was really lucky, had
• 13:03
  lots of friends and, you know, there was only a couple of
• 13:07
  people that I'd ever had issues with and I am not one of those
• 13:11
  people that likes to, you know, have drama arguments or
• 13:14
  anything. So I think that made it a lot
• 13:16
  easier. I'm intrigued as well.
• 13:19
  And I asked Liddy of the same thing because Cuz I always found
• 13:22
  this interesting, did you ever hear like what happened to this
• 13:26
  person later in life? Like they sort of sort
• 13:30
  themselves out or did it worse for them?
• 13:33
  Because obviously, you mentioned like karma's a bitch.
• 13:35
  It happens like this. She learned from that or did it
• 13:38
  get worse? Have you heard anything at all?
• 13:42
  Well, considering how popular she was in school?
• 13:44
  I've heard nothing. So I'm assuming that she's just
• 13:47
  kind of dropped off the face of the planet for most people that
• 13:51
  To school with, you know, most people have just, you know,
• 13:55
  stopped being friends with her and you know, not just because
• 13:59
  of the people that were bullied but for their own sakes as well
• 14:01
  because you know, you don't want to have to constantly be like
• 14:05
  looking behind your back. See if your friend saying
• 14:06
  something, you know, it, you have to be able to trust.
• 14:11
  You want to be able to trust your friends and you want to
• 14:12
  have a nice time. You don't want to have to have
• 14:14
  all this, you know drama and people stirring the pot.
• 14:18
  You just don't need it. Absolutely.
• 14:20
  Yeah I couldn't agree more. More and I'll just add to that
• 14:23
  as well. The reason I asked that question
• 14:26
  is like, as much as I do like seeing people get their
• 14:29
  comeuppance and stuff, I do hope that people will change for the
• 14:33
  better. Even the people that believe me
• 14:35
  at school, I would hope they would get out of that negative
• 14:38
  mindset. They were in and being a more
• 14:40
  positive one. Because I've heard like one of
• 14:41
  the beliefs that believe me, there's is worse now.
• 14:46
  And I'll I Part of me was like, screw that guy named part of me
• 14:51
  was kind of like, oh, that kind of sucks, you know, to here, I
• 14:54
  was kind of hoping, maybe life it because in life teaches you
• 14:57
  life is the great teacher. You know, I've learned lessons,
• 14:59
  you know, I'm not saying I was a perfect teenager, you know?
• 15:02
  I mean, sometimes I could be a bit of an ass not like them
• 15:05
  know, like I was never a brilliant people being horrible,
• 15:08
  but, you know, I was, I think I was flippant sarcastic
• 15:11
  sometimes, which was, ironically a defense mechanism because I
• 15:15
  actually had, like, really bad self-esteem issues and I hated
• 15:18
  myself Self. So like I try and put on this
• 15:20
  Persona of like I'm the cool guy and this guy but everyone like
• 15:23
  everyone that knew me knew I was full of shit and they were like
• 15:25
  why are you acting like that? I just you know election I
• 15:31
  think. Yeah.
• 15:32
  I mean it's being a teenager, did an amine and I think that a
• 15:34
  lot of the time, once you hit your 20s, certainly you life
• 15:39
  tends to iron you out and you know, those problems dissipate
• 15:42
  and you become hopefully a normal nice.
• 15:46
  Well, functioning member of society, you know, But when you
• 15:49
  hear about people at school, that like never changed or got
• 15:52
  worse, you know, it's always sad to hear because you never wish
• 15:55
  that on anyone. Like yeah it's what everyone to
• 15:58
  succeed really. Even if they did bully you know
• 16:01
  the end of the day I met people I met people that bullied and
• 16:04
  then change their life and became decent people so it can't
• 16:06
  happen but yeah. Anyway moving on.
• 16:12
  So You had these struggles with mental health at school and this
• 16:18
  led eventually to you becoming an inpatient in a hospital for a
• 16:22
  year. So talk us through the timeline
• 16:24
  because you said that, obviously you started experiencing initial
• 16:29
  troubles, sort of like your primary school age going into
• 16:33
  secondary school. So when would this have been and
• 16:39
  what can you tell us about this experience?
• 16:41
  Obviously don't have to go into details and stuff but just It is
• 16:44
  a picture of what that look like, and what what the
• 16:47
  experience was like for you. So this kind of happen when I
• 16:51
  was 16. Things were just, you know,
• 16:55
  they've got so much worse, so quickly.
• 16:58
  And I didn't know who to talk to, you know, I was seeing a
• 17:02
  therapist because my mama door, obviously, taking me to go, see
• 17:05
  a therapist about problems that I've had before, but then it
• 17:10
  was, there was all these new stresses like I have my Jesse's
• 17:14
  and it doesn't seem like, you know, it was like that was a big
• 17:18
  thing and you know, it schools, proper drill it into you that
• 17:22
  like Jesus, he's the be all and end all, they're not.
• 17:30
  Yeah, I and obviously there are problems with with friendship
• 17:34
  groups and you know, all the usual stuff you have at that
• 17:37
  age, but I got to a point where so I was having therapy because
• 17:43
  I I had an eating disorder when I was 13 14.
• 17:47
  Oh, I lost a lot of weight and because of the therapy, I was
• 17:52
  getting better. But that meant I was gaining
• 17:54
  weight. And then that meant that, you
• 17:56
  know, this whole image of myself was changing and that was a huge
• 18:00
  thing for me, that was like, I was looking in the mirror and I
• 18:05
  wasn't seeing myself anymore, right?
• 18:10
  And, you know, it led to me being like very depressed.
• 18:14
  And you know, I was, you know in a state of self harming and all
• 18:19
  I could think about all the time was was the suicidal thoughts
• 18:23
  and it was just taking over complete a and I remember my mum
• 18:31
  was like, we can't have this anymore.
• 18:33
  Like I, I can't keep you safe. I'm worried.
• 18:37
  So we went up to AA because we didn't know who to go to West.
• 18:42
  Yeah. And so he went to a any and they
• 18:46
  called up the crisis team and they basically said we're going
• 18:51
  to start looking for a bed for you in a hospital because I
• 18:56
  couldn't trust myself to keep myself safe. and when you hear
• 19:01
  that, you're going to be an inpatient mental health unit
• 19:04
  Hospital you You think to all these like movies and books and
• 19:10
  stuff. And it's not like that.
• 19:12
  And I've got myself really worked up over something that it
• 19:16
  really wasn't. And I was in these.
• 19:19
  So, there was two hospitals. The first one I went into and,
• 19:24
  you know, I thought I was better, but basically got
• 19:26
  discharged way too soon and I didn't know how to cope without
• 19:31
  someone being there 24/7, you know, making observations on me
• 19:36
  because 15 minutes, you know, you'd have some of the clipboard
• 19:39
  come around a corner, shine a torch in your eye, make sure
• 19:41
  you're alright leave. Wow, yeah, yeah.
• 19:45
  So especially through the night so they just make sure that
• 19:48
  you're okay and, you know, breathing and everything and
• 19:51
  that you're feeling or rye, okay, did they talk to you
• 19:55
  constantly? I kind of just, you know,
• 19:57
  Communicator you kind of take that you're okay, you know every
• 20:03
  15 minutes or every half an hour But then I went home and I had
• 20:07
  none of that like I was having days where I was home by myself
• 20:10
  because my mom was at work, you know, my brother was a school
• 20:13
  and I was like what do I do? I'm completely lost and it was
• 20:20
  because of that. I couldn't I couldn't readjust.
• 20:22
  I went back into hospital for another few months.
• 20:26
  So there's two separate of missions to two different
• 20:28
  hospitals. There's a lot to unpack here.
• 20:35
  Did you have to do your gcses in the facility?
• 20:40
  Yeah, so I did my gcses in the first hospital and the hospital
• 20:45
  had a school attached. They take us in this van to
• 20:51
  school and there was only like the patient's there and people
• 20:57
  that were living in Youth accommodations.
• 21:01
  So there was only like maybe 12 students in that school.
• 21:07
  And I did my gcses through there and I didn't want to do my
• 21:10
  gcses. I was like I'm not going to do
• 21:13
  them, you know. I, you know, I was a teenager
• 21:15
  and I thought that this was my, you know, perfect excuse not to
• 21:18
  do my gcses and they called my mum and my mom the hospital.
• 21:25
  She drove all the way down and this was to was like two and a
• 21:28
  half hours from where I live. Oh wow.
• 21:30
  Okay, one of the nurses are like your mom is here to see you.
• 21:35
  You want to go sit in the visiting room.
• 21:37
  So, I went and sat in the visiting room.
• 21:39
  My mom opens the door and she's like, you are doing your gcat.
• 21:44
  You'd studied hard for this, you've got the opportunity to
• 21:47
  still do them while you're in here, you're going to do them.
• 21:51
  So I did all My GCSE he said, Mom knows best okay.
• 22:00
  You mentioned you mentioned obviously suicide was it
• 22:06
  specifically? Because of this eating disorder
• 22:09
  that led you to that? Was it other things?
• 22:13
  Are you comfortable? Talking about that?
• 22:16
  Yeah I'm perfectly comfortable talking about it because this is
• 22:19
  something that is very much in the past.
• 22:25
  I don't feel that way anymore so I can't really relate to that
• 22:28
  person as much anymore. But there was a whole lot of
• 22:32
  things that are adding up to this, you know, I was, I was
• 22:36
  depressed, I was anxious all the time.
• 22:39
  I was in pain all the time. I didn't know why, you know,
• 22:43
  there was a lot of things going on, and I just, I couldn't cope
• 22:48
  with it. And you know, my brain instantly
• 22:54
  just wanted to shut down. That was it, you know?
• 22:58
  So this is interesting obviously we covered all of the health
• 23:01
  conditions that you dealt with. So, If we're building a timeline
• 23:05
  yet, so you wouldn't have had some of those diagnoses just yet
• 23:08
  you but you're still kind of learning about yourself,
• 23:10
  learning, like, all these things I have to contend with, so on
• 23:13
  and so forth. So, if we painting a picture
• 23:16
  here, it's basically like what's going on.
• 23:19
  I don't understand. Like, why am I always in pain?
• 23:22
  Why is this happening? Why is that happening?
• 23:25
  So it's more kind of like everything getting too much and
• 23:28
  you know, understanding why and then it just builds and builds
• 23:30
  and builds and builds and everyone has a line kind of
• 23:33
  thing. 100%. Yeah, it was a collection of a
• 23:38
  lot of things that have been going on for a long time.
• 23:41
  And, you know, it was just all getting so much and then also, I
• 23:45
  was, I was a teenager. I was 16, you know, being 16
• 23:48
  isn't easy, there, was that on top of it all as well.
• 23:54
  So it was it was a difficult collection of a lot of things
• 23:59
  that have been bottled up for a long time.
• 24:00
  I think. Took us through the initial
• 24:04
  steps after that. So was it okay?
• 24:08
  That happens. The attempt happens, then you
• 24:11
  immediately get taken to the Ane and then the hospital.
• 24:15
  But I guess what? I'm trying to ask is like what's
• 24:18
  the support network look like when when you attempt to take
• 24:22
  your own life, like what does that look like?
• 24:24
  What's the Procedure so to speak.
• 24:28
  So there are quite a few things in place.
• 24:30
  Some of the, you know, they work really well and some of them
• 24:34
  don't. So one of the things that I was
• 24:38
  always told was that if I was feeling, suicidal was too cool.
• 24:42
  A team called the crisis team and, you know, for some people,
• 24:48
  they've worked really well. But I've had negative
• 24:50
  experiences with them and only negative experiences.
• 24:54
  So this is where I've been, you know, at my lowest point and
• 24:59
  I've called them up and they were like, we'll get someone to
• 25:02
  call you back and no one called me back.
• 25:06
  Oh my God and this happens three times that only three times I've
• 25:09
  ever called them. So at that point I was like I
• 25:14
  can't I can't do this because I know it's just going to be
• 25:17
  ignored how long ago this was just would have been four years
• 25:21
  ago. It's all right.
• 25:23
  Yeah four years ago. That's Crazy.
• 25:26
  I mean you'd think when you cool that line up the first person
• 25:29
  you get through to is someone who's going to sit there and
• 25:32
  talk to you. I mean if nothing else what it's
• 25:36
  a cry for help you call that number.
• 25:37
  It's like I need someone to convince me otherwise I need
• 25:41
  someone to just listen because I have these dark thoughts right
• 25:45
  now but to then receive a. Oh sorry, we're busy referral.
• 25:50
  What the fuck? I mean, yeah, it was it was
• 25:54
  really bad and that's at the point.
• 25:57
  So my mom was aware that this was happening and she said, you
• 26:01
  know what, when this happens I'm just going to take you straight
• 26:04
  to a an a because you're around people constantly and they will
• 26:08
  call someone out and funny enough from the crisis team,
• 26:11
  they'll call someone out to, you know, come and assess you and
• 26:16
  decide what to do next. And you know, that was what
• 26:21
  happened when I was put into hospital, so someone from the
• 26:26
  crisis team comes, they ask you, loads of questions and try and
• 26:30
  figure out what's going on, and you're kind of situation and
• 26:34
  they'll decide whether they think that, you know, you need
• 26:38
  to go into into hospital. And, you know, there are two
• 26:42
  ways to go into a hospital, you can go in as a voluntary
• 26:45
  patient, or you can get sectioned and set can be done by
• 26:51
  doctor. Has it could be done by nurses.
• 26:53
  It can be done by. So there's a team called amps
• 26:58
  and they kind of decide a lot of the time or it could be done by
• 27:01
  police. So like if people have run away
• 27:03
  or something, and all the different sections are for
• 27:07
  different lengths of time, but that is when you are legally,
• 27:12
  like, forced to be there voluntary, you can go.
• 27:16
  And technically you can leave if you want, but if you leave and
• 27:19
  they don't think you're ready to leave, then they can sex.
• 27:21
  You. So it's kind of it's a difficult
• 27:25
  system, it's a strange system. So, when you were there, did you
• 27:29
  kind of given that you knew it was voluntary?
• 27:31
  Were you kind of there because you didn't want to let your mum
• 27:36
  down, or were you kind of submitting?
• 27:39
  Because you know you're thinking okay, you know what fair enough.
• 27:41
  I need this help. I'm going to just give this a
• 27:43
  try like what was your kind of thought process?
• 27:45
  Given that you know, it's voluntary.
• 27:48
  I I had good days and bad days there.
• 27:52
  You know, most of the time I did not want to be there, but that
• 27:56
  was more because, you know, my mind was elsewhere and I
• 28:01
  couldn't fathom getting help, you know, at this point.
• 28:05
  I thought I was too far gone, you know?
• 28:10
  But it as a voluntary patient, I knew that I was allowed to leave
• 28:16
  technically but if I left then what was all that for?
• 28:20
  No, my mom has been helping me so much and doing so much to me
• 28:25
  to get this help. If I left, I would be massively
• 28:29
  letting her down and you know, I even though I had all these, you
• 28:35
  know, suicidal thoughts and stuff, you know, deep down I
• 28:38
  knew I didn't want to. I don't want to do that.
• 28:41
  You know, I didn't want it to come to that.
• 28:44
  So I think there was some stuff that was subconsciously
• 28:46
  happening, that was making me want to stay as well. and, What
• 28:55
  were there? Any I mean you said your overall
• 28:57
  you said you had a very good positive experience in this
• 29:01
  facility was there anything you witness in this facility that
• 29:04
  was unprofessional not okay like not specifically to you
• 29:07
  necessarily but just in general elsewhere other people because
• 29:11
  I've had friends over the years that have painted a very
• 29:13
  different picture of what it can be like and the only thing I can
• 29:16
  say is I guess it just depends on where you are which specific
• 29:21
  facility your are but was there anything negative or or
• 29:26
  professional that you saw negative stuff that happened
• 29:30
  there and obviously you can imagine that that would be the
• 29:33
  case because you've got you know, a hospital full of people
• 29:36
  that you know, are in a certain situation and you've got nurses
• 29:40
  and doctors that are trying But it's difficult and you don't
• 29:45
  exactly know what to do in a lot of situations.
• 29:47
  And I think that a couple of things happened to me, where I
• 29:51
  don't agree with the way things were handled at all.
• 29:55
  So, there was a There was an incident where I was assaulted
• 30:02
  by another patient and I didn't really say anything.
• 30:07
  I was quite, you know, shocked and a bit.
• 30:11
  You know, my heart was going and I was unsure what to do, but
• 30:16
  another patient. So what happens and had told the
• 30:20
  nurses, the nurses didn't really seem that interested.
• 30:23
  So and this was a physical so yeah.
• 30:29
  So, you know that other patient called the police from her.
• 30:37
  We were allowed, we weren't allowed mobile phones.
• 30:39
  Exactly. But we're allowed the little
• 30:40
  like, you know, the Nokia brick phones.
• 30:43
  Yeah. So, we internet or anything, but
• 30:45
  we could call someone if we needed to and the police showed
• 30:50
  up and the nurses just said, well, you know, we didn't see
• 30:54
  anything. And wow, okay.
• 30:58
  Yeah. So the police took me aside and
• 31:01
  said that, I was making it up to get out of doing my exams which
• 31:08
  broke me entirely and not only that after all of that.
• 31:14
  Obviously, I was really upset, you know, I was sent to my room
• 31:20
  and I was not allowed to leave my room.
• 31:24
  So it's like, you know, you were punished even though you didn't
• 31:27
  do anything wrong but you the victim.
• 31:30
  Exactly. And the support workers were
• 31:33
  instructed to just come and check on me not to come and talk
• 31:37
  to me or anything so that that I felt was was a wrong decision.
• 31:43
  Definitely, okay, well, I'm sorry to hear that.
• 31:48
  You had to deal with that but I'm glad at least at the overall
• 31:53
  experience was Mostly positive. I mean, you were only there for
• 31:56
  a year and obviously we can see that you're in a very positive
• 31:59
  place now, so that's at least positive.
• 32:04
  One thing I briefly want to touch on that you mentioned
• 32:06
  earlier is that you had a eating disorder.
• 32:08
  Can you just tell us a little bit specifics about that?
• 32:11
  How you dealt with that and and how you overcome that as well.
• 32:14
  Overcame that sorry. Yeah so I I didn't think I had
• 32:19
  it eating disorder. I was and this is probably
• 32:22
  thanks to you know, No, social media and stuff.
• 32:25
  I thought that, you know, I was dieting by not eating anything
• 32:32
  and I lost tons of weight really quickly.
• 32:35
  And, you know, I thought it was a good thing, you know, because
• 32:40
  you see all these, like, people on the internet that like, oh,
• 32:43
  I've lost so much weight, I feel amazing.
• 32:45
  And I was like, I want that. And I went about it the complete
• 32:49
  wrong way, but then I realized it Took my mum, like, figuring
• 32:55
  it out for me to realize that. Actually what I was doing was
• 32:58
  dangerous, so I would it was stuff like so I was in school at
• 33:05
  the time. So I was like 13, 14 and like
• 33:08
  even like their lunches that my mom were packed me.
• 33:11
  I would hide away, you know, I would like to put them in bins
• 33:15
  and stuff and it was when my mom discovered that she was like,
• 33:18
  something's really not right, okay.
• 33:21
  Okay. And What exactly help you help
• 33:27
  you to overcome. It was it the experience when
• 33:30
  you were admitted as an inpatient?
• 33:32
  Was it? Something else?
• 33:33
  Was it helped of your mama? What helps you to overcome that
• 33:36
  eating disorder? so you know, there are different
• 33:41
  stages of it, you know, there was one point where I wasn't
• 33:44
  eating anything and then I a little bit and then you know, I
• 33:48
  went through a stage where I had I was binging food and then
• 33:54
  making myself sick afterwards because I felt so bad about and
• 33:59
  you know all of these I thought were better than the last but
• 34:02
  they weren't they were all bad and you know, I think the
• 34:09
  hospital helped me a lot because they had rules in place that
• 34:13
  meant this was all impossible. You know we had four meals a day
• 34:17
  and we had to eat them for games.
• 34:20
  That's interesting. Yeah, so you'd have obviously
• 34:24
  breakfast, lunch dinner and then in the evening there would be
• 34:28
  another meal. Would be a smaller meal.
• 34:31
  I don't really know why. But that was okay.
• 34:38
  And Those meals and said that I force in the only you, like, you
• 34:44
  can't say, no, you can't eat a little bit or something.
• 34:47
  You can say no. But if you say no, then you were
• 34:52
  either given one of these replacement Shades which you
• 34:56
  were forced to have, or you would be put on this thing.
• 35:01
  They called an Amber Alert. And that is where they are
• 35:06
  worried about you so you will be on.
• 35:09
  So the observations will be constant and you won't be
• 35:12
  allowed out so they had outings for the hospital so I remember
• 35:17
  every other Tuesday we go laser tag.
• 35:19
  Hey cool, that's cool. Yeah it was really fun like they
• 35:23
  did lots of stuff like that and you know we went and played
• 35:27
  badminton once a week and there was like all these different
• 35:30
  things that we could do, all right?
• 35:32
  If you want I am, but you weren't allowed to do those
• 35:34
  things so interesting to sort of Point form of punishment.
• 35:39
  Okay, I think it was punishment. I think it was more the fact
• 35:42
  that they just needed to keep a closer eye on you, and they
• 35:45
  couldn't do that in those situations but then we'd see
• 35:48
  that as well. I better not be an amber alert
• 35:51
  because I want to go to laser tag on Tuesday.
• 35:53
  So you know it was a good thing I think and it worked for us
• 35:58
  quite a lot. What was the food like in the
• 36:01
  facility? Was it actually edible?
• 36:03
  Was it just a rank or what was the deal?
• 36:06
  So the two different hospitals were very different.
• 36:08
  One was a private hospital and one was NHS private high school.
• 36:13
  We had a cooking would make all this stuff and it was amazing.
• 36:18
  And he was like he was such a character as well.
• 36:22
  Like he'd be like go up to him and he'd like you know be
• 36:25
  playing the part of the chef at this little like hatch that we
• 36:28
  come and get our food from. Okay.
• 36:31
  He was quite he was a funny guy. Guy and, you know, he really
• 36:35
  cared about everyone that was in there and the food was great,
• 36:40
  like, you know, you can't fault, it was amazing.
• 36:43
  And then the NHS hospital was very different.
• 36:46
  We got these. Like they came in these, like
• 36:49
  tubs and you just, like, whack them in the microwave or the
• 36:52
  oven. So ready meals.
• 36:54
  Yes, Anjali. So I lived off of them for a
• 36:57
  month and you know what hold-hold on a second.
• 37:01
  How can they They feed. You ready?
• 37:04
  Meal? Surely.
• 37:04
  That's just like inhumane. And it's not proper.
• 37:08
  Sustenance. Is it?
• 37:11
  As you know, it was I think that what I was eating was the least
• 37:16
  of my issues when I was there. But you know, it wasn't, it
• 37:20
  wasn't great. And the time that I was in
• 37:22
  there, I was a vegetarian as well and which was fine because
• 37:29
  the vegetarian food actually tend to be nicer.
• 37:31
  However, other people realize that the vegetarian food tend to
• 37:34
  be nicer. So everyone so that, you know,
• 37:39
  some people would be like, oh no.
• 37:40
  We've run out of like the vegetarian option have toast.
• 37:45
  It's like, okay, I used to the vegetarian, now, or did you
• 37:50
  change switch back to? Was it?
• 37:54
  I change back, I enjoyed it, I could do it.
• 38:00
  But then I was like, actually my food is much nicer if it's got
• 38:03
  some chicken with it as well. So you know one thing we've
• 38:09
  obviously realized forget you Speaking about your battles with
• 38:12
  mental health is obviously the clothes kind of connection you
• 38:15
  have with your mother, which is awesome.
• 38:18
  You mentioned in the emails to me prior to our podcast together
• 38:23
  that she was involved in a life-changing incident.
• 38:28
  So I've deliberately why did it in that way?
• 38:31
  Because I want to just get your exact words and your Perspective
• 38:36
  on this. What can you tell us about that
• 38:38
  experience? And what did you learn from it
• 38:42
  and how did you guys kind of come out of it from the other
• 38:46
  side? So it was possibly one of the
• 38:51
  craziest things that has ever happened to me and it was
• 38:56
  completely out of the blue and unexpected.
• 38:58
  So I was just starting my flat and I was texting my mom and you
• 39:02
  know, we talk about our day and I was just saying that I'd, you
• 39:05
  know, been busy making some stuff throughout the day and she
• 39:10
  didn't reply. An hour.
• 39:11
  And I was like, well, she must be at work and she is a
• 39:14
  community Midwife. So she's got, she goes around
• 39:17
  people's houses and I you know, it does their observations and
• 39:21
  appointments and delivers babies which is like incredible and
• 39:27
  it's getting really late. And I was thinking, surely she's
• 39:29
  finished work by now and my brother's called me and was
• 39:33
  like, don't panic but Mom's been in a car accident.
• 39:39
  And at that point, I was like, Everything just kind of stopped
• 39:42
  and I was like, what's going on? And the problem was, we were
• 39:48
  getting lots of different information, all at the same
• 39:50
  time, you know, at first, I was told, you know, she's just got a
• 39:55
  cut on her arm, she's fine. And the next one, it's like a
• 39:59
  police officer comes over onto the phone.
• 40:02
  And I'm at my grandmother's at this point and they're like, we
• 40:07
  think we're going to have to amputate her arm on scene.
• 40:10
  And what happened was her car and it was a complete freak
• 40:15
  accident. She's just turned a corner and
• 40:18
  her front wheel was clipped. The back wheel of a parked car.
• 40:22
  Normally, would be fine, but it's like this one in God knows
• 40:25
  how many charlton's. It's flip.
• 40:28
  The car over and my mom's window was open.
• 40:30
  Her arms gone out the window and completely, and I hate this word
• 40:37
  to gloved it. Oh, everything.
• 40:41
  Yeah. Oh God.
• 40:44
  Okay. Right.
• 40:46
  Yeah. She calls it her Deadpool worm,
• 40:51
  you know. Yeah yeah, yeah.
• 40:56
  But she was airlifted to a hospital in Cambridge and they
• 41:03
  they managed to save her arms so it didn't have to be amputated
• 41:06
  and, you know, she had Skin grafts of my legs and stuff, but
• 41:12
  this was during covid, so I didn't get to see my mom.
• 41:17
  I said this is lost last year. Yeah.
• 41:20
  So November last year. Oh, wow, really recent jeez.
• 41:24
  Yeah, so it was, it was terrifying and the fact that
• 41:29
  like, I hadn't seen my mum from the accident until when she came
• 41:33
  home. So, when did she come home?
• 41:36
  She so, it was, it made me cry. But basically it was my birthday
• 41:45
  and my mum had text me in the morning, and she was like, oh,
• 41:50
  you know, you step dad. He's, he's on his way home.
• 41:53
  He's just dropping off a present that I've bought.
• 41:56
  And as I like, okay, cool. And then, I've gone downstairs.
• 42:00
  Open the door and my mom's there.
• 42:02
  And I was just started bawling my eyes out.
• 42:04
  I was like, oh my God. That's present ever and like I
• 42:11
  was upset because like, you know, me and my mom is so close.
• 42:15
  Yeah. Ice and you know, it was I've
• 42:20
  haven't been that long without seeing her before so you know it
• 42:24
  was it was it was amazing and you know she's doing so great
• 42:29
  now and you know she still doesn't have much use of arm but
• 42:34
  she just keeps. So Adjective about everything.
• 42:37
  And, you know, she even through it all, she's more worried about
• 42:41
  how I'm doing, and making sure I'm okay, surely.
• 42:44
  I should be making sure you're okay.
• 42:46
  But no. She's, she's just incredible.
• 42:51
  Sounds a is she still? Is she back at work?
• 42:55
  And she's still able to do her work or or what's the deal with
• 42:58
  that? I'm unfortunately not she hasn't
• 43:01
  been able to go back to work yet because obviously being a
• 43:04
  midwife a lot of it is it pardon the pun hands on.
• 43:08
  Yeah. And that's the thing that
• 43:10
  exactly. It is easy for her at the
• 43:12
  moment, but she's discussing with work, you know, going back
• 43:16
  and you know, doing a different role where she takes called the
• 43:20
  pointment sand, you know, teachers, so that she can still
• 43:25
  be a midwife just without delivering a baby.
• 43:28
  Art you know, because there's a lot of work that goes into being
• 43:31
  a midwife and you know you don't realize it or best of luck to
• 43:36
  her. I'm sure my whole audience as
• 43:39
  well is wishing him, the best of luck as well.
• 43:42
  Thank you very much for sharing that.
• 43:44
  I know it's not easy and but I think it's important that we
• 43:48
  share such stories and For various reasons why, I think the
• 43:55
  biggest bin, you know, that the fragility of life and stuff and
• 43:59
  to really appreciate people, you know, so thank you for that.
• 44:04
  Moving it forward. On a much more lighter note
• 44:10
  because this is one of the reasons why I wanted to cover.
• 44:12
  The mental health aspect, I mean other than it being a good topic
• 44:15
  in general and for you to share your experiences and stuff,
• 44:18
  you're obviously a writer and author and you've written
• 44:23
  various different things. But from what I understand this
• 44:27
  started with writing about mental health or at least your
• 44:30
  experiences of it. Is that correct?
• 44:32
  Yeah so I kind of had this realization When I was about 17,
• 44:40
  and I was like, actually, people don't know, you know, where to
• 44:44
  go to, for advice or what it's like being in hospitals.
• 44:48
  I should, I should write something about and I've done a
• 44:53
  couple articles and I want to write a whole book about my
• 44:57
  experiences. Excellent.
• 45:00
  Okay, let's start with the Articles.
• 45:02
  So what if you written so far and what's the kind of General
• 45:06
  feedback been From the community.
• 45:10
  So, the Articles I've done have been like, online like
• 45:15
  newsletters and stuff, you know, kind of magazine type articles
• 45:22
  and stuff to go on a friend of mines blog, who talks about
• 45:27
  mental health, and, you know, all sorts of stuff.
• 45:31
  And I never thought that was something that I'd be.
• 45:34
  I'd be good at, you know, I was never, you know, 14, right?
• 45:39
  Writing when I was, I'd always get distracted and you know,
• 45:43
  just kind of abandoned projects halfway through.
• 45:48
  But when it comes to talking about this sort of topic that
• 45:51
  there's so much that I can say and so much I've been through.
• 45:55
  And, you know, obviously I was lucky that I had the support
• 46:00
  network that I had and was able to get that help.
• 46:03
  But not everyone does and not, everyone knows how to get the
• 46:05
  help. So I think it's something that's
• 46:08
  really important. And and, you know, I would like
• 46:12
  to help someone if I can. So that's where that started
• 46:16
  from. And like what's the response
• 46:20
  been like from people that have been reading it as it been, have
• 46:24
  you received a lot of Feedback from people, have you sort of
• 46:31
  their? What, what?
• 46:32
  What, how what have you built from this?
• 46:34
  I guess is what I'm saying? I do, you have your own blog for
• 46:36
  instance? I don't have my own blog but it
• 46:40
  is something that I've considered someone that is read.
• 46:43
  One of the Articles I've written has come forward to me and said
• 46:48
  that basically she after reading up on line about all this stuff
• 46:53
  she's gone and got help and you know she was an inpatient in a
• 46:57
  hospital. Few months and she's out now and
• 46:59
  doing amazing. And that's all you can really
• 47:02
  ask from that. That's do a whole, the whole
• 47:05
  purpose of doing it. So I think that, you know, it
• 47:10
  was, it was quite well received and it helped someone, you know,
• 47:15
  I couldn't ask for more than that.
• 47:17
  Excellent. Yeah, let's let's talk about
• 47:20
  that book. That you're planning on doing.
• 47:21
  So, where are you with regards to that?
• 47:23
  Is it going to be sort of a biography or autobiography?
• 47:27
  That kind of Deal. Or is it more you're going to
• 47:30
  blend Fiction with with reality? Like what kind of book are you
• 47:34
  you planning? And when do you think we can
• 47:37
  expect to read it? Well, I'm not going to put a
• 47:41
  date on it yet because I am notorious for procrastinating
• 47:45
  and then coming back to projects later, but I have started and
• 47:49
  it's kind of a collection of different stories from my
• 47:54
  experience within hospitals within these hospitals because
• 47:58
  Is I think that, you know, it's looked at a certain way in the
• 48:01
  media you know the referred to as the loony bin or whatever and
• 48:05
  people have this really weird idea of what it's like in there
• 48:10
  and people say they reckon it's like a prison or something and
• 48:13
  it's nothing like that at all. And I also want to show that
• 48:19
  it's not all going to be bad in there.
• 48:21
  You know you're going to have your good days as well and there
• 48:24
  are people in there that you know, I met some amazing.
• 48:28
  In people while I was in there. And you know I've got so many
• 48:31
  like funny that will stories and anecdotes that I can you know,
• 48:35
  use the people might appreciate and see that actually it's not
• 48:38
  all that bad and that if it helps you then you know it's
• 48:42
  worth doing and not to be afraid of it.
• 48:45
  Absolutely I just want to deviate from your writing for a
• 48:48
  second to ask you a question based on something that you just
• 48:52
  touched on. So you mentioned about the fact
• 48:54
  that like there's this negative perception of mental health in
• 48:57
  the media. Would you say right now, in the
• 49:02
  UK, it's generally positive or negative in terms of the
• 49:06
  overall, attitudes towards mental health, the press, and
• 49:09
  the media, the resources available, all of these
• 49:12
  different things because, you know, I can remember a time when
• 49:16
  these things just weren't taken seriously at all.
• 49:18
  Whereas now, At least in the I suppose in the media it seems
• 49:24
  like it's taken seriously. I mean, obviously me and you
• 49:28
  sort of covered the fact that, you know, in jobs and stuff like
• 49:31
  that, it's not taken very seriously.
• 49:32
  But at least in the media, you know, for instance, perfect
• 49:36
  example, in the most recent Olympics, I believe there was an
• 49:39
  athlete who decided to bow out because of mental health
• 49:42
  struggles. And there were very mixed
• 49:44
  opinions on that. A lot of people were in support
• 49:47
  of it saying, fair play to, you know, well done.
• 49:49
  And a lot of Other people will like, that's an unbelievable
• 49:54
  that's not acceptable, but blah, but your personal experience of
• 50:00
  this and your perception. What would you say is the
• 50:04
  overall kind of perception in the u.k. right now.
• 50:08
  I think there are different perceptions based on a lot of
• 50:12
  different factors. So there's still a big problem
• 50:16
  with men seeking help for problems with their mental
• 50:19
  health. You know, there's still this
• 50:21
  idea that, you know, if you have to be this, you know, strong
• 50:26
  character and if you were if you were sad or something, then you
• 50:30
  that's not right. That's not manly, and there's
• 50:32
  still this idea and it's so outdated, you know, it's
• 50:37
  ridiculous and You know, men are actually afraid to come forward
• 50:42
  because of what people would say and obviously like it goes by,
• 50:46
  so it happens with women as well.
• 50:48
  I've got with men particularly, I think there is this whole
• 50:51
  stigma about, you know what it is to be a man or whatever it is
• 50:56
  that people seem to think but then there's also the
• 51:00
  generational divide. Yeah.
• 51:02
  So younger people, there are so many, you know, people talking
• 51:08
  about Mental health and, you know, raising awareness and
• 51:11
  everything and it's amazing. But there are some people from
• 51:13
  an older generation where they were, perhaps told you don't
• 51:17
  talk about that stuff and at the moment, we've now got this mix
• 51:23
  of these two different views. So I think there's quite a big
• 51:27
  split. I think that there's a lot more
• 51:29
  acceptance and a lot more, you know, openness about mental
• 51:33
  health, but at the same time, there are still those old views.
• 51:36
  There are You know, very much present.
• 51:41
  Thank you. Yeah, let's bring it back to
• 51:43
  your writing. So what other kind of stuff have
• 51:48
  you written about a view, only written about mental health, or
• 51:51
  if you branched out and written about other things, obviously,
• 51:55
  you know, you do songwriting and stuff like that.
• 51:56
  So that's obviously another example of that Boozer.
• 51:58
  Any other spheres that you Viva written on or are aiming to
• 52:03
  write in the future and also just break down the Type of
• 52:08
  writing that you do. So obviously mental health is
• 52:10
  like you knows quite serious topic to write about.
• 52:12
  Do you also write for fun like creative writing as well?
• 52:16
  Talk to us a little bit about that.
• 52:18
  So I have done a few other writing pieces.
• 52:22
  So I've written about alopecia articles about that because you
• 52:29
  know, I have lost my hair. I wear wigs and you know I was
• 52:33
  really worried about it for a long time and now it's just one
• 52:36
  of those things but obviously lots of people would be very,
• 52:41
  you know, self-conscious and worried and scared if they
• 52:43
  started losing their hair. So you know, I like to write
• 52:47
  things that help. People that that's, you know,
• 52:49
  what, where I feel comfortable. And where I think that, you
• 52:53
  know, I can be useful, but I do write creatively as well as you
• 52:58
  say, like, I write music and I write poetry, and I love short
• 53:05
  stories, weird and wacky and wonderful is kind of my, my
• 53:10
  area, you know, and that started because I absolutely love all
• 53:17
  these short stories. The done by Neil Gaiman in
• 53:20
  particular so he's done. Lots of short stories that are
• 53:25
  really weird and strange and you know these whole like fictional
• 53:30
  like world's kind of thing. And I love that I love right and
• 53:34
  stuff like that as well. Where can people find examples
• 53:38
  of your work online? Do you go by the name populist?
• 53:42
  Or do you go by a pen name or something?
• 53:43
  Where can people find this work? Well, there is Really quite
• 53:48
  difficult to find at the moment, but I have plans that if people
• 53:52
  are interested then I'm going to put them online myself where
• 53:57
  people can see them and read them for themselves.
• 54:02
  So have you done it anonymously up to this point then?
• 54:05
  Yeah. Okay okay well that's something
• 54:09
  that certainly we all look forward to seeing so can't wait
• 54:12
  for that. What advice could you give to
• 54:16
  aspiring writers? I think that you need to write
• 54:24
  for you. First of all you know, don't
• 54:27
  worry about if it's too weird or no one's going to like it or any
• 54:33
  of those things because you you have to write about something
• 54:37
  that is interesting to you. If you write about something
• 54:39
  that is not interesting and you're just writing it because
• 54:42
  someone you know someone will enjoy or people enjoy it.
• 54:45
  It's not going to be good. You have to feel like your work
• 54:48
  is good. You have to be proud of your
• 54:50
  work. So you have to write, what makes
• 54:52
  you happy and what makes you feel?
• 54:53
  Good, couldn't agree more and just a final question with
• 54:58
  regards to writing, what's your kind of approach to writing
• 55:02
  articles? So specifically your structure,
• 55:05
  you know, like your how you plan it out and stuff like that.
• 55:11
  The writing articles, very different to how I write songs.
• 55:14
  I meticulously plan everything out.
• 55:16
  And you know, if I haven't done like, 12 different drafts of the
• 55:21
  same thing, then like, it's unheard of, you know, I'm very
• 55:28
  meticulous with my articles, I plan out, you know, every couple
• 55:32
  sentences, what I'm going to say on what points I'm going to
• 55:35
  make, just because with these articles, you need to be, you
• 55:38
  know, to the point and it has to be interesting.
• 55:41
  Otherwise people don't read on and it's always the most
• 55:44
  important things you put last. So, I kind of have a whole
• 55:51
  process of like I planned it all out.
• 55:53
  I have to sit in a quiet room. No one talked to me, and I'm
• 55:56
  going to write it out and, like 10 different drafts and pick my
• 55:58
  favorite one. And thank you for sharing that.
• 56:03
  Let's, let's move it forward. I can't believe that I'd
• 56:07
  forgotten about this. So, like, you've constantly
• 56:10
  mentioned in my streams before that, you, you wear wigs and
• 56:13
  stuff and it just went completely over my head as As
• 56:16
  far as my research is concerned because I think I was so focused
• 56:19
  on the other stuff that you sent me and it really I mean I got
• 56:23
  excited just sitting doing the research, you know I always I
• 56:25
  always do but it was like wow. So are you you have you
• 56:31
  completely lost all your hair or a little bit as a bit confused
• 56:33
  there? Like the most of it is got I
• 56:37
  have like a little patch like here at the front but pretty
• 56:40
  much rest is gone. And you know that started
• 56:45
  probably two years ago Now, okay, and it started with this
• 56:49
  little patch and I just remember like I just felt the back of my
• 56:52
  head and it was gone and I went straight to my brother and my
• 56:55
  partner and I thought one of them had shaved it in my sleep.
• 57:00
  Oh wow. Like who did this and everyone's
• 57:03
  looking at me like that, wasn't me.
• 57:07
  So it was after that that I was like, okay well that's not
• 57:11
  right. And then I was trying to figure
• 57:13
  out what it was and just more kept coming out and You know, it
• 57:17
  was really distressing at first, you know, I was really upset
• 57:20
  because my hair was always one of those things that I'd used to
• 57:23
  express myself, you know, alternative culture.
• 57:27
  I had brightly colored hair and, you know, I backcomb it all when
• 57:32
  everything, you know, and I was losing that.
• 57:37
  And that, that was really upsetting for me for a long
• 57:41
  time. Is it actually.
• 57:44
  So, obviously the condition is hella peisha is Connected to any
• 57:48
  of the other health conditions that you have or is it just
• 57:51
  completely separate and it's just something that's happened.
• 57:55
  Well, there's this whole kind of debate as to, whether it's, you
• 58:00
  know, stress or anxiety caused, or whether it's purely
• 58:05
  autoimmune. So this is where your immune
• 58:08
  system decides to fight. Off your hair, follicles
• 58:10
  thinking that it's you know, something that shouldn't be in
• 58:13
  the body. Okay.
• 58:16
  I'm not too sure where we're mine kind of stemmed from or the
• 58:20
  reason for it. I just know that it's happened
• 58:23
  and I've kind of learned to accept that now.
• 58:27
  And this, this is something that's interesting about this.
• 58:30
  So it's not actually baldness per se, it's kind of like it
• 58:35
  comes, and it goes, right? So like it can completely grow
• 58:38
  out again and then you lose it and back and forth, because I've
• 58:42
  got quite a few friends that suffer from this condition as
• 58:44
  well. And from what I understand, a
• 58:45
  lot of the time it will just be like They might even have like
• 58:48
  really long hair then just suddenly that big bald patches
• 58:51
  just fall out overnight and it goes back and and so on and so
• 58:55
  forth. So yeah, close-up on that.
• 59:00
  Is there a way to like, tackle that aspect?
• 59:03
  Or is it just kind of like you just have to make a kind of
• 59:05
  decision. And and then everyone has that
• 59:07
  different levels of severity or something like that.
• 59:10
  Yeah. So there are different types of
• 59:12
  alopecia. So there's alopecia areata which
• 59:15
  is just that just means like areas of your hair is gone.
• 59:19
  There is totalis which is all the hair off of your head is
• 59:23
  gone and there's Universalist which is everything.
• 59:27
  Okay. The hair is completely gone.
• 59:31
  Oh you mean like eyebrows as well as the fact that and yeah
• 59:35
  your eyebrows eyelashes literally anywhere anywhere.
• 59:40
  Is just completely bald no hair on your body at all.
• 59:44
  Wow. And I have alopecia areata,
• 59:48
  which is why I still wear on my head but also my eyebrows are
• 59:53
  falling out multiple times and you know my eyelashes are
• 59:58
  falling out and you know I've had lots of different things and
• 1:00:03
  sometimes it regrows and sometimes it doesn't you know
• 1:00:06
  there's no real way to tell if it's going to grow back or not.
• 1:00:10
  And because it happens, like, overnight from what you were
• 1:00:12
  saying, right? Yeah.
• 1:00:15
  So if that happens, let's say for argument's sake that your
• 1:00:17
  eyebrows just fall out tomorrow, I do then think, okay, I'll draw
• 1:00:20
  em one or I'll just wear a hat or I'll just embrace it.
• 1:00:24
  Like, what was the kind of that the process that you go through
• 1:00:27
  when like these things happen or how do you work around it?
• 1:00:31
  Why browse was a weird one? Because I had already lost a lot
• 1:00:34
  of my head and I wasn't expecting to lose my eyebrows
• 1:00:39
  and I had them one. It went to bed and I woke up at
• 1:00:43
  like 3:00 in the morning and my partner looks at me and he's
• 1:00:45
  gone. You don't have any eyebrows,
• 1:00:49
  okay, it's in the mirror and I've got like three hairs on one
• 1:00:55
  eyebrow and I was like, how was that happened?
• 1:00:58
  Like what? So I drew them on for a few days
• 1:01:03
  and then I got some tickets and temporary tattoos which are
• 1:01:06
  amazing and they look like real. Eyebrows them for a little while
• 1:01:12
  and then a family friend of mine, actually tattooed my
• 1:01:18
  eyebrows. So my eyebrows it a tattooed on
• 1:01:22
  kind of now. So really wow, that they did a
• 1:01:25
  fantastic job. There's some hair on, but
• 1:01:30
  Obviously, it's not as much as it used to be and like, most
• 1:01:34
  other from it actually comes from this a to.
• 1:01:36
  Wow, we got, we go. Get out.
• 1:01:37
  That, that tattooists details. That, that's, that's a solid
• 1:01:40
  job. Look at those whose I would
• 1:01:41
  never have known that. Like this is brilliant job.
• 1:01:47
  Yeah. And just just a final question
• 1:01:48
  on this. What advice could you give to
• 1:01:50
  people that maybe have just discovered?
• 1:01:52
  They have alopecia or just in general?
• 1:01:54
  Like things that you've learned and tricks?
• 1:01:57
  What advice could you give Well, I think that the thing that
• 1:02:01
  helped me the most was, there are so many amazing support
• 1:02:05
  groups for people with alopecia online, like Facebook is full of
• 1:02:10
  all these alopecia support groups and, you know, they'll
• 1:02:14
  help you with, you know, the emotional aspects of it.
• 1:02:16
  You know, if you want to get a week, they'll help you with
• 1:02:18
  that, you know, nice, let and there are lots of people that
• 1:02:22
  have, you know, alopecia, it's so common.
• 1:02:26
  You just don't realize it all the time.
• 1:02:27
  So I think that that's Something that definitely looking to
• 1:02:32
  remember that you're not alone in this.
• 1:02:35
  Lots of people have gone through it and lost their hair.
• 1:02:38
  It's just about, you know, carrying on and keeping a
• 1:02:41
  positive attitude towards it all.
• 1:02:44
  Awesome. Thank you for sharing, so you're
• 1:02:48
  from Southend-on-Sea. I've been to Southend-on-Sea.
• 1:02:51
  It's fun. It's a nice little place.
• 1:02:54
  What are the best and worst things about Southend-on-Sea?
• 1:02:59
  Oh gosh. So the best things are there is
• 1:03:04
  always so much to do in Southend.
• 1:03:07
  You've got you know the sea life Centre, the theme park, the
• 1:03:10
  beach and the music scene is amazing.
• 1:03:16
  You know there's always another gig or something on, you know,
• 1:03:21
  and for that it's incredible that point is everything is
• 1:03:26
  really expensive because it is To towards tourists.
• 1:03:31
  Oh, yeah, of course. There was like, how could you
• 1:03:34
  possibly be bored? You live in South End?
• 1:03:37
  Why don't you just like, go to the theme park or go do this?
• 1:03:40
  And I'm like, because it costs a lot of money because it is
• 1:03:44
  Catered towards tourists and holidays or give us an example
• 1:03:48
  in real quick. So let's say I want to go to the
• 1:03:49
  theme park. How much is cost of Entry?
• 1:03:53
  Because so to get a wristband to go on the rides, probably like
• 1:03:58
  30 something pounds. And it's quite a small thing
• 1:04:02
  Park as well. No, I've been there. 30 quid.
• 1:04:06
  Yeah, crushed. You could, you could Traverse
• 1:04:09
  that place in about Half. Now I can see everything about
• 1:04:13
  half an hour blimey. Wow.
• 1:04:17
  Okay. What about the arcade machines
• 1:04:20
  and stuff? I know there's like a little
• 1:04:21
  arcade areas and there is nothing bad.
• 1:04:24
  I can say about the arcades out of there and it's brilliant.
• 1:04:27
  I just remember being like 14 or 15 and my mom would give Me a
• 1:04:31
  Tenor of me and my friends would go and played Guitar Hero for
• 1:04:33
  the last at noon. Brilliant, brilliant about the
• 1:04:37
  sea life Centre. How much is that you know top of
• 1:04:40
  your head? I don't know off the top of my
• 1:04:43
  head out been in a long time, but it's always good there and
• 1:04:47
  it's not really much of a sea life Centre anymore because they
• 1:04:50
  have monkey the meerkats. Oh okay, all sorts as well but
• 1:04:55
  you know it's always good and when you when you have those
• 1:04:58
  days that you have like that money to go you know it doesn't
• 1:05:01
  get boring or anything. So so if I if I want to get fish
• 1:05:05
  and chips and self in done, see how much, how much do I have to
• 1:05:09
  dig into my pockets? That's actually not too
• 1:05:12
  expensive depending on where you go.
• 1:05:14
  If you go down the seafront, you you're probably spending about
• 1:05:19
  as a know if you want fish and chips seven quid Osprey average.
• 1:05:24
  As far as a cheap is probably more expensive here together.
• 1:05:28
  We know we don't even have seen Manchester.
• 1:05:30
  Okay, nice one, thanks for sharing.
• 1:05:35
  I love asking this question. It's probably my favorite
• 1:05:38
  question to ask. All of my Guests.
• 1:05:42
  What's the biggest life lesson that you've learned so far?
• 1:05:47
  I think it's to take everything with a pinch of salt because you
• 1:05:52
  know what things are going to get bad sometimes but you can
• 1:05:57
  work through them and you will work through them.
• 1:06:00
  You know, nothing is going to be the be-all and end-all of
• 1:06:03
  everything. And, you know, one of the ways
• 1:06:06
  to cope with that is one of the ways that you cope with it.
• 1:06:09
  You know, I make jokes about everything.
• 1:06:11
  I laugh about everything and it makes me feel like those
• 1:06:15
  horrible things are just a little bit smaller and easier to
• 1:06:18
  manage. Thank you, Berlin.
• 1:06:23
  As we draw things to a close for today.
• 1:06:24
  Do you have any upcoming projects or maybe some final
• 1:06:27
  thoughts that you'd like to share with our listeners?
• 1:06:32
  It's pretty much discuss them all.
• 1:06:34
  They're all sort of in their early early stages at the
• 1:06:37
  moment, but we obviously like be, you know, updating and stuff
• 1:06:42
  as stuff happens. So yeah, no.
• 1:06:46
  I think I think we touched on everything that's happening now.
• 1:06:50
  Excellent. I just want to say a massive
• 1:06:53
  massive, thank you for agreeing to be on the show.
• 1:06:56
  I've definitely, this has been one of my favorites.
• 1:06:59
  Episodes by a long shot and I just I just want to thank you as
• 1:07:03
  well for being so forthcoming. I know we've covered a lot of
• 1:07:06
  stuff that's very heavy but I think it's important to discuss
• 1:07:10
  and get awareness about these things.
• 1:07:12
  And you know, just think you're a fascinating human being with a
• 1:07:16
  lot of awesome stuff to talk about to say and just want to
• 1:07:20
  thank you for your time. Thank you.
• 1:07:22
  And thank you for having me on. Oh I love your casts and yeah,
• 1:07:29
  massive. Thank you to all my list.
• 1:07:31
  I keep thinking the cameras that way it's here.
• 1:07:33
  Now it's weird. New camera.
• 1:07:35
  Massive! Thank you everyone for being
• 1:07:38
  Avid supporters of the Christian week podcast, I know that
• 1:07:41
  there's a regular audience now, thank you so much for always
• 1:07:44
  watching and supporting and yeah.
• 1:07:48
  Until next time be safe. Be well and I'll see you in the
• 1:07:51
  next one.