Latest / Wicked and Grim: A True Crime Podcast / Billionaire Murders - Barry and Honey Sherman

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Billionaire Murders - Barry and Honey Sherman · Wicked and Grim: A True Crime Podcast

• 0:07
  Speaker 1: On December fifteenth, twenty seventeen, the shocking discovery of Berry
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: and Honey Sherman's bodies in their Toronto mansion sent shockwaves
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: across Canada and the world. The billionaire couple, celebrated for
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: their philanthropy and influence and powerful pharmaceutical company, were found
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: dead under mysterious circumstances. Their death sparked countless theories, from
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: a botched robbery to a personal vendetta or even a
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: calculated contract killing. Either way, the Shermans had made enough
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: people bitter and angry along their path to becoming wealthy.
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: The list of potential suspects seemed endless. This is the
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: story of Barry and Honey Sherman, the billionaire murders.
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: My name's Ben, I'm Nicole, and you're listening to Wicked Ingram,
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: a true crime podcasting.
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: The following material intend more mature audience listener discretion.
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: Happpy New Year, Happy New Year's Eve. There's a question, mind,
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: it is Happy New Year's Eve, but I feel like
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: majority of people will most likely be listening to this
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: in the new year, so I'm just saying Happy New.
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: Year, Happy twenty twenty five. If you are If not
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: you still have a little bit left of twenty twenty four.
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: Mm hmm.
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: There we go, covering all bases, right.
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: It is like wild that it's already going to be
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: twenty two twenty five.
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: Man, I still feel like COVID just started, Like you
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: know what I mean.
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: I still feel like I just graduated from like high school,
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: or we just got married. We've been We've been this year. Okay,
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: twenty twenty five married fifteen fricking years. Yeah, that's long,
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: Like holy shit, Yeah, that just seems impossible.
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: Which means we've been together for what almost twenty twenty.
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: Wow, here it will be together.
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: Twenty Holy guacamole. Yeah, we're old, we're aging ourselves. Take
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: a deep breath, no kidding, I'm gonna take a deep
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: sip of coffee. Hopefully you guys have some good plans
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: for your new year and good New Year's resolution. I'm
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: not one to always make New Year's resolution or believe
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: in them, but it is good motivation for many people.
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: So if you need that motivation, hopefully it is there
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: for you.
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: Hey, well, we're going to be talking about our New
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: Year's resolutions at dinner, not necessarily just like thoughts of
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: what we want for twenty twenty five. I've decided this, Okay,
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: we're gonna have a conversation at our dinner. We're going
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: out for dinner and then we're just going to go
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: to a friend's house that has like fireworks and stuff
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: and then home. Like, I'm actually fine if i'm home
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: before midnight.
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think we probably will be and every look.
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: Like complete losers. Though if we leave before midnight.
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: Nah, I think it'll be good. But I do have
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: a question if we're going to be talking about like
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: our resolutions, ish, I guess I'm assuming it's going to
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: somewhat most likely involve our businesses. Could we maybe write
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: off dinner tonight if we just have you know, a
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: business dinner?
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well we never had ours. We didn't do a
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: Christmas party this year for ourselves.
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: We didn't, so maybe.
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: This is it.
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: Okay. I think we just decided let's go home and
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: we have some patrons to think before we get too
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: deep into what we're going to be doing for our
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: New years. We have perpetually exhausted Love the name relating
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: to that and Jenny who signed up this week, so
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: they're getting that behind the scenes all the exclusive content,
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: and we are having another episode come out today for
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: the final exclusive episode of the year, which comes out
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: the end of every month.
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: So yeah, well, I mean in a year span, that's
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: twelve extra episodes.
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and if you go back in the library, we've
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: been going for like what probably two and a half
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: years of Patreon, so there's there's at least like fifty
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: ep moll, not fifty I guess thirty ish episodes.
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: You've come up with other content too, but the library there,
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: it's growing.
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: Oh I bet. Yeah, there's got to be at least
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: like thirty forty on there.
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: I think so. But we do have quite the case
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: today that we're talking here, not on Patreon, just for
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: the general like podcast for everyone.
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: Well, I'm a bit shocked. You're shocked because I didn't
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: recognize those names. The only other thing you told me
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: is that this is Canadian. Well you said it in
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: the thing it was Toronto, Yeah, and it wasn't really
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: that long ago. No, So I'm like surprised that this
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: isn't ringing a bell for me.
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I don't know why I haven't heard of this
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: one until recently either, because it seems like it should
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: be a very high profile case, which it is.
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: But yeah, yeah, interesting, maybe bits will come back to me.
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: I don't know, but I don't think i've heard of this.
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: I think it's probably because it's Canadian. Like, I don't know,
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: Canada doesn't seem to do great with its news at times.
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: Okay, is that just a Canada. I think it's just
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: a Canada thing. Have we talked about this. We're not
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: even allowed our news on our social media. Yeah, it's
• 5:19
  Speaker 2: like if you share a link, a news source link
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: or anything like, it won't let you. Like there's just
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: no news allowed on social media.
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: I think that's a Canadian.
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: That is a Canadian thing. That was something that Justin
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: Trudeau implemented I believe it was last year, which.
• 5:33
  Speaker 2: I just feel like is really kind of shady.
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it is only allowed allowing news sources such as Foxy,
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: TV News all that sort of thing to actually distribute news.
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: No, but I don't even think they are allowed really,
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: are they?
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: No, you have to like they can't share on social media. Yeah,
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: but that allows them to have the monopoly on sharing news,
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: you know what I mean?
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because yeah, I even one about trying to share
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: like a good news story. We were remember we were
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: in the news or I was in the news or something,
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: and it was like not a negative thing whatsoever, Like
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: it was positive.
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it was something about your business.
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: I remember that, and it just like wouldn't let me.
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: And I was like the fuck. Okay yea, anyway.
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: Anyways, Canada is weird like that. So I wouldn't be
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: surprised if there's many reasons similar ish as to why
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: this hasn't been like really put out there. But it
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: is a whole high profile case and it is exactly
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: that very wealthy people billionaires with a fucking B. You're
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: not hearing me say millionaires, Bill billionaires. Wow, some williamaires
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: in there, you get it because Bill William And it
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: was like, you know, you're just brushing past that. That
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: was good, some williamaires because Bill and Will you know,
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: you know people call people like Bills for short of
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: Will what's his name? Well, we're not talking about his.
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: Name, shit, Okay. I was like, that would make sense
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: if his name was Bill.
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: No, his name is not Bill. His name is Barry.
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: But you know what I'm saying though, right, because Bill Naire.
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: But then for for short, it's Bill youonaire, but the
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: full would be Williamayre. Okay, I think it was funny.
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a great story.
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: I thought it was hilarious. It's great, and you're disappointing
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: me that you didn't enjoy that. Okay, enough of this,
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: this has been long, enough of us.
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: Rant I was just going to say, like that, you
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: said pharmaceuticals right therein Yes, Okay, so it makes sense.
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: I guess that they're billionaires.
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, So starting off, we're going to talk about Barry,
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: not Bill Barry, Barry Sherman.
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: So.
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: Barry's life kicked off on February twenty fifth, nineteen forty two,
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: in Toronto. This is where he was born into a
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: Jewish family. Things weren't always easy for Barry, though. His dad, Herbert,
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: ended up passing away from a heart attack when Barry
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: was just ten years old. It was a tough blow,
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: but even as a kid, Barry had a knack for
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: bouncing back. He was super sharp, and especially when it
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: came to science, it was clear early on that he
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: was destined for something big. Barry went on to study
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: engineering at the University of Toronto, but he wasn't stopping
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: there either. He had site set on the chemical industry,
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: which led him to earn a doctorate at MIT. With
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: his degree in hand, Barry came back to Canada because
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: where he actually went was like Massachusetts Technology. Yeah, so
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: he came back to Canada ready to dive into this
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: pharmaceutical world. Now, at the time, his uncle Louis Winter
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: owned a small pharmaceutical business called Empire Laboratories. So Barry
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: saw an opportunity and he jumped onto it, buying the
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: company in nineteen sixty seven. Oh wow, Okay, so this
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: was the first big step that would become his legendary career.
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: If you will, Well, he seems like he's a smart dude.
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: Oh definitely. Not long after that, Barry launched Apotex, Inc.
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: A company that would eventually become Canada's go to producer
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: of generic drugs. So we are talking pharmaceutical drugs. So
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: when we have like tailanol or like those are name brands, right, yeah,
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: so you can get like the no name brand sort
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: of ones, that's what he's producing.
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: Okay, so Apitex wasn't just a big deal in Canada.
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: I think you meant like thailan on advil or advil. Sorry, yeah,
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: because like as is like a medication. Yeah yeah, okay,
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: Tailanol and Advil are the brands.
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: My apologies. Yeah. So Apa Tex wasn't just a big
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: deal in Canada. It was a global player in this market,
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: making affordable medications for millions of people around the world.
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: And not only that, there was many donations to relief
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: funds as well from these medications, so sending like crates
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: and millions of dollars worth of medications when there is
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: actually people in need. So this wasn't just like, oh,
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: you find this company in Canada, No, this was across
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: the globe. So Barry himself became a well known figure,
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: famous for his smarts and his nonsense approach to business.
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: He wasn't afraid to get, you know, his hands a
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: little dirty and go toe to toe with other big
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: pharmaceutical companies, especially when it came to a league battles
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: over patents. Now, that boldness made him a bit of
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: a controversial character, but there's no denying the massive impact
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: that he made on the industry. This brings us to
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: Honey Sherman. Honey was born Hannah Swidler in nineteen forty
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: seven in Wellyn, Ontario, and came from a humble beginning,
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: but had big dreams from a young age. She aimed
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: for a life beyond her modest upbringing and Honey met
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: Barry during their university years, and together they formed a
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: rock solid partnership, both personally and as well professionally. After
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: they got married, Honey didn't just stand by Barry's side,
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: She actively contributed to their shared success and became a
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: force in philanthropy. Honey threw herself into charity work, focusing
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: on supporting the Jewish community, funding hospitals and helping those
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: in need. She was known for her warm personality and
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: hands on approach as well, often personally involving herself in
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: projects that she financed. Together Barry and Hunty, he became
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: one of Canada's most prominent power couples, living in a luxury,
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: luxurious home in one of Toronto's high and elite neighborhoods.
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: But behind the wealth and polished public image, there was tension.
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: Barry's aggressive business style, particularly at Apotex, had earned him
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: plenty of enemies along the way. Honey and Berry may
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: have presented a picture perfect life, but their fortune and
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: the way it was built came with complications. Lawsuits from
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: disguntled family members and business associates were quite common as
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: people weighed for a piece of Barry's immerse immense wealth.
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: Being a billionaire, after all, often means making tough choices,
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: and sometimes that means you're ruffling a lot of feathers.
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I don't feel like you can get
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: a billionaire and not have any enemies.
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: I don't think so. And there's many people who say, like,
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: you know what, maybe there was a lot of philanthropy
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: involved in their life. Maybe they were making donations, they
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: were donating medications and all these sort of things. But
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: there is the argument if you know, tax rite offs
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: and that sort of thing, and maybe it you know,
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: they actually get more money back and what they don't
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: I don't. I'm not going to pretend to understand that.
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: But there's a lot of arguments out there on whether
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: they were good intention to people or if there were
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: more selfish intentions behind these sort of things. And there
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: were a lot of, like I said, lawsuits, patent arguments
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: and court battles and things to go along with it.
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: So there's two sides of the coin. There's the hey,
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: these are good people, and hey these are bad people,
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: and I'm not going to pretend to understand which side
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: they could have been, because there's a lot to this
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: and understanding who people are, and especially when you get
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: to this level of business, there's so many things behind
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: the scene that no one is going to ever hear
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: about or understand.
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: So honestly, I feel just listening to this, I feel
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: like their life just sounds so stressful, Like it doesn't
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: sound enjoyable whatsoever, just like constantly being like suit or
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: like having these enemies, and I don't know, it just
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: doesn't sound enjoyed. But I'm like a people blaser, so
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: that's just wouldn't work with me.
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: I don't think for them it was as stressful as
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: we would think, because I mean they, for example, you're
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: a billionaire, right you can hire a legal team.
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: Well, yeah, they would have like just people working for them.
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: But I still like, depends how involved they are in
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: the business and stuff.
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: Right, They are very involved, And I think that's one
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: of the reasons why I don't think it was like
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: as stressful as we may think, is because it's like
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: they loved what they did, you know. Okay, so yeah,
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: now despite all these conflicts and everything going on, though
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: the Shermans. They appeared to live a charming life. They
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: seamlessly blended their wealth, influenced generosity, all the controversy as well.
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: They maintained an impeccable public image. Kind of Really, what
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: made what happened next so shocking is because they did
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: appear to be comfortable. They did appear to be happy
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: and generous and all this sort of things. So it
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: was on December fifteenth, twenty seventeen, when Toronto police received
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: a call that would send shockwaves through the city and
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: the country and the world if you heard about the case. Anyways,
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: as you mentioned at the beginning, we never heard of it.
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: But regardless, Berry and Honey had been found dead in
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: their mansion.
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: Wow. Yeah, yeah, I there's none of this has sounded
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: familiar to me whatsoever.
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, No, not one piece of it sounds familiar to
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: me when researching either.
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: I also have to say, there, I feel like there's
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: a many wealthy people that don't donate anything or like
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: give back to anything, So that has to be you know,
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: a plus in their direction.
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: Oh, for sure, they did do good. You can argue
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: their intentions behind it. You can argue it was overshadowed
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: by you know, maybe negative things they did, but you
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: can't argue that they did do good things.
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: Dang. But also to be that wealth wealthy and to
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: be able to get murdered like it's like they did
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: they have security, Like I'm intrigued to hear more.
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, the discovery came when real estate agents showing
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: the house to potential buyers, went over to the pool area.
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, Now, the house was immaculate. It was approximately
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: twelve thousand square foot. Holy shit, pools, hot tubs, tennis court,
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: pretty much anything you could ask for inside a home
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: like this, and it had recently just gone on the
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: market and was listed at just under seven million dollars.
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: So while touring this illustrious home, what they found inside,
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: you know, apart from the stunning architecture and design, yeah,
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: was this horrifying scene. At first, by the pool, they
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: thought they were two mannequins propped up, but once it
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: got closer, they found the bodies of Berry and Honey
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: as they were seated on the ground next to the pool,
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: their next tied with leather belts to a low metal railing.
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: Holy shit, Berry's legs were crossed in a disturbingly calm
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: kind of position will Honey lay more on her side
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: with bruises visible on her face. Both of them were
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: fully clothed, their coats pulled down over their shoulders restraining
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: their arms. They weren't facing the water. Instead, they were
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: positioned as if staged facing away.
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: Huh wow. Okay, First of all, that would not show
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: well that home if there's like a murder scene in there. Yeah,
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: like kidding, that's another terror thing to add to the
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: list of being a realtor, I feel like, yeah, but
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: holy shit, Okay, wow, to be to have them people
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: like that be touchable, you know, to be able to
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: get murdered is scary.
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Now, their home was on Old Colony Road, and
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: as I mentioned it is, it's a fucking mansion, and
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: it's one in one of Toronto's wealthiest neighborhoods. And it's
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: this neighborhood is known for its high security and surveillance. Okay,
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: it's caught, tall fences, all this sort of thing. However,
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: as far as I could find, the sherman's home did
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: not have security cameras. Inside security systems, sure, but cameras no.
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: The home showed no signs of forced entry, no broken windows,
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: no smashed locks, no alarms triggered. In fact, the security
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: system had actually even been disarmed. It was turned off
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: at the time. Now, this detail immediately raised suspicions. Whoever
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: was responsible seemed to maybe you know, not force their entry,
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: So it was likely that they knew the Shermans well
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: enough to enter their home undetected or at least without
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: setting off alarms or raising their.
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: Alarm, which makes sense.
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so lack of force entry basically pointed to a
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: perpetrator or perpetrators who had access to the house or
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: knew them, and making this investigation just a little bit
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: more chilling considering that potential connection. Yeah, this gruesome scene
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: left investigators in the public grappling with a single burning question, who,
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: of course would do this and why? News, of course,
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: quick spread like wildfire and family, neighbors, reporters, colleagues. They
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: all were just making their way to the Toronto home.
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: Burry and Honey had always seemed untouchable, you know, so
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: their wealth connections and fortress, all this it just nothing
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: seemed to make sense. Why, Like I can't paint that
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: why picture enough?
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: M hm, Well, I mean people were angry with them,
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: but then usually it seemed like they would go about
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: suing them, you know, not necessary for sure, breaking in
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: their home and murdering.
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: Them exactly now. It was almost immediately though, whispers of
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: a potential double suicide began to circulate. Oh shit, Yes,
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: the peculiar positioning of the body seemed to lend itself
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: to this speculation. However, this theory was quickly shot down
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: by the family and close friends, and his theory was
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: actually what the authorities investigators were initially running with two.
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: Those who knew Berry and Honey insisted though, that there
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: was no reason for them to end their lives. They
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: were described as a couple deeply invested in their business,
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: in their you know, donations, their charity, their family, and
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: their future as well. The initial police statement was frustratingly vague,
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: offering only a confirmation that two bodies had been discovered,
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: But behind the scenes, the investigators were already exploring yeah,
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: multiple theories, with this suicide one being the prominent. The
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: public weighed in. They also wanted to have a bit
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: of a voice, you know, whether it was actually protesting
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: or whatever. I'm unsure, but the public had their strong
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: opinion and there was no short of theories regarding these
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: opinions either, Okay, I.
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: Have a question though, sorry, Were they like hanging? Were
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: they were the bodies like hanging?
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: They weren't hanging per se. They were sitted seated on
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: the ground is what Barry was in his position of
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: so think sitting cross legged and Honey was laying on
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: her side. I'm not sure if she was supported somewhat
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: by the belt and Sam was Barry. But their bodies
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: were on the ground in some sort of fashion with
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: some sort of weight being held up by the belt
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: tied to the railing.
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, it just it's I guess that's hard for
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: me to believe that it was suicide. I just I mean,
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: who knows how a person would go about doing that,
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: I guess, But it doesn't seem right. It doesn't seem
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: like it seems like they would either I don't know,
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: shoot themselves or take drugs or something. You know. Yeah,
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: that seems peculiar.
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, a lot of people were quite frustrated with this
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: suicide thought of potential love it. They didn't think it
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: made sense either. And as I mentioned, like the relatives
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: were just like no, like they had no reason to
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: commit this suicide or anything. Right, Like Barry didn't show
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: any signs of like instability. He was like working with
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: his business NonStop, and Honey was going forward with these
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: donations and projects, all these sort of thing. It was
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: just yeah, she was known to be warm, friendly. None
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: of it made any sort of sense, even talking to
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: some of the neighbors. She was often seen walking and
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: chatting with neighbors in the neighborhood. It just, yeah, it
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: didn't make any sense consider a suicide.
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: You don't fully know ever, what's going behind on behind closed.
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: Doors, right, that's true. That's true. Now. One intriguing detail
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: did come to light though, that kind of helped maybe
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: potentially point the investigation in another direction other than potential suicide,
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: was that the couple had put their home on the
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: market for sale just weeks before their death. This sparked
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: a flurry of new theories. I mean, because there's countless
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: theories out there on this case, but some speculated that
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: the sale process had inadvertently opened the door to danger,
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: like the homeless for sale, bringing in strangers, potential buyers,
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: possible criminals who were like scouting the place sort of thing.
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: Oh right, dang, I never went there, but yeah, it's
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: very big possibility.
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: Others theorized that the Shermans might have been hiding something
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: selling the property and an attempt to distance themselves from
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: whatever troubles they're trying to hide. They're trying to move on.
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: Maybe right if someone figured out where they lived and
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: they're like, okay, we can't be here, or who knows what,
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: maybe they buried a body in planters in the yard
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: or something. I don't know.
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, Well, when you said that it was
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: for sale, it did seem a little bit odd to me,
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: But who knows. People buy and sell different stuff all
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: the time, right.
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: Well exactly, and like the realtor handling their estate and everything,
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: or their a state, their home, whatever you want to say.
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: They quickly helped dismiss the speculation on like the sale
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: being for a reason of like getting out of there.
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: Apparently the Shermans were just looking to downsize move to
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: a more modern home, so the realtor was kind of
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: just like, yeah, that's that's that's malarchy. Soon came the
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: critical developments of the autopsy results. Forensic experts confirmed that
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: both Berry and Honey had died from quote ligature neck compression,
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: which is basically Yeah, they were exphyxiated, right, they were choked.
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: This finding confirmed that the grim nature of the death
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: also deepened, like all the mysteries around this, And strangely,
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: there were no significant signs of a struggle on their
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: bodies though, either, which is something very unusual in the
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: case of homicides. So if you're considering there is no
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: signs of a struggle, there's no signs of forced entry.
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: That does lend a little bit more to the theory
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: of suicide. However, how the bodies were found it kind
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: of contradicts that suicide because I mean, it's not impossible.
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: It does happen, But hanging oneself from a low thing
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: like that, when you have your your sitting on the ground,
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: it's not probable.
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: Well, it gives you opportunity to act. Say, I feel
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: like a lot of people they I don't know, they'll
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: do like jump off a bridge and as they're like
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: going down, they regret it, yeah, immediately, So it gives
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: them the opportunity to change their mind.
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: Right Exactly, people do commit suicide as they do self
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: delete in that in that manner. So I'm not saying
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: it's not possible, it's just a very unlikely way people
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: do it well.
• 24:25
  Speaker 2: And didn't honey have bruising on her face?
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: She did have bruising on their face. And you remember
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: that their sweaters were pulled or their jackets were pulled
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: in the way that it was, you know, restricting them.
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: It was like binding them right right. Yeah. There were however,
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: some minor scratches on their hands and faces, which experts
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: suggests may have been the result of brief resistance. But
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: it's hard to tell for sure. Okay, the autopsy findings,
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: you know, added a lot of weight to different theories
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: and everything, but yeah, also just raised a lot more
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: questions and who knows, right, But it was determined that
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: the Shermans had likely died on December thirteenth, a day
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: or two before the bodies were discovered. This timeline gave
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: investigators a clear starting point and actually began piecing together
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: some events leading up to the crime. Now, naturally, the
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: police turned their attention to people surrounding the Sherman's life,
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: focusing on Barry's extensive business dealings. But over the years,
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: his aggressive tactics tactics or I can't talk today in
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: the pharmaceutical industry had earned him quite the reputation as
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: a ruthless competitor kind of As we already discussed, his company, Apotex,
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: was often embroiled in high stakes legal battles, particularly with
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: larger pharmaceutical firms. So we're not talking just individual against individual.
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: We're talking large company versus large company CEO, pissing off ceo.
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, like people who have money and exactly. Yeah,
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: because I feel like the majority of times was like
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: murder cases, the list isn't huge, right of suspects, but
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: in this case it seems like it really is.
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: It almost seems endless. And the question right now for investigators,
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: could corporate rivalries actually escalate to this violence? I mean,
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: we see this sort of shit in movies all the time.
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: I'm not high up in the corporate ladder in the
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: real world, so I don't know, but it doesn't seem
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: far fetched to me from what Hollywood tells me.
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, very true.
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: Now, Barry's corporate life wasn't the only source of tension,
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: though his family relationship was long fraught with drama. Several
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: cousins have been locked in bitter lawsuits against Barry for years,
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: accusing him of cutting them out of their rightful share
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: of a family fortune. If you remember, he purchased out
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: his uncle's business. Right, so those kids from that uncle, right,
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: his cousins like, hey, that's our family business that you
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: came in and like swooped.
• 26:51
  Speaker 2: Now, I don't well he purchased it.
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: I don't know how the whole like acquisition to that
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: company came in. I don't know if he purchased stit.
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: Maybe had a deal because hey, family uphule. Maybe the
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: uncle passed on more than he should. Who knows, right,
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: But either way, these cousins felt that they were owed
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: at least part of that company or part of his
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: dang fortune.
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: Man money just it just it brings the worstone people sometimes.
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And this this legal battle spanned decades, and as
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: investigators dug deeper, they couldn't ignore the possibility of the
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: roots of this crime that might actually stand within these
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: grudges as well. Now, what made this case even more
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: baffling was the lack of clear evidence pointing in any
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: sort of direction. Now, despite Toronto's police launching a massive investigation,
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: they're handling of the case faced harsh criticism right from
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: the start see earlier on. Authorities leaned into the theory
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: of the murder, suicide or suicide. Right, So we're thinking
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: either one of them killed one and then suicide themselves
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: or double suicide, right, So who knows. But that was
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: one of the theories that they were working with from
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: the very beginning, but under mounting public pressure, the police
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: were forced to rethink their theory. A month into the investigation,
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: they revived their stance, officially declaring the deaths as targeted
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: double homicide. This changed the entire direction of the case,
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: so many believe, though unfortunately this change came way too late.
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: See on the day Berry and Honey's bodies were discovered,
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: numerous people had entered their homes, their home, not homes,
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: home relatives, police officers, real estate agents, journalists all were
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: in the home contaminating the crime scene. Because the police
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: are looking at this as hey, suicide, right, but still.
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: Why the hell are their people in there?
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: Well it's not a crime scene.
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: I guess, I guess.
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: So now a month later it's officially a crime.
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: Signe o shitka, that's not good.
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: No, it's not. So anything that might have been actually
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: vital clues was now potentially compromised, right yep. So adding
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: to the complexity was the sheer size of the Sherman
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: residents as well. And don't get me wrong, I do
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: want to clarify. I'm sure that they were investigating the
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: house as somewhat of a crime scene, but I don't
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: think they were fully, like very serious about it because
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: they're like, yeah, it's probably suicide, you know what I mean. Now,
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: the house itself was, as I mentioned earlier, twelve thousand
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: square feet.
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, or earlier when you said Holmes, I was like, well,
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: it could be a few homes.
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: Sure, it could be maybe there's a pool house in
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: the back or something. And I don't know, but twelve
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: thousand square feet has dozens of rooms, and it makes
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: it incredibly challenging to comb through this entire place for evidence.
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: Every corner, every surface, every item had to be carefully
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: examined for traces of the perpetrator. But the odds of
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: covering anything and finding this just diminished with each passing day.
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: The Sherman's home also had multiple entrances for someone to
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: enter and at the home. To top it all off,
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: Friends and family also noted that Barry and Honey were
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: the kind of people who wouldn't hesitate to open the
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: door if someone came knocking and asking for help. Okay,
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: oh man, yeah, so that only wid widens the possibility
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: for more suspects. Now, Barry in particular had a history
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: of dealing with some lesson savory business associates. We talked
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: kind of a bit more about how he pissed some
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: people off, for sure, but yeah, there was also some
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: people who were a little bit less and savory potential
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: potentially individuals with criminal history but dealing in the business
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: side of things, still questionable backgrounds will say that. So
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: his aggressive business practices often left others feeling this angry
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: feeling towards him, as we know, right. Barry himself even
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: speculated at one point about the risks that he had faced.
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: In an interview with Jeffrey Robinson for the book in
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: the late nineteen nineties, Sorry for a Book in the
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: late teen nineteen nineties, he chillingly stated, quote, for a
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: thousand bucks paid to the right person, you can probably
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: get someone killed. Oh my gosh, perhaps I'm surprised that
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: hasn't happened. Okay, so he's surprised he hasn't been fucking
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: killed in a hit yet.
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: Well, thousand bucks, say, for a freaking life.
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I mean that was in nineteen ninety to
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: start with, still inflation, maybe that's five thousand today. Who
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: knows five thousand to the right person, might you know?
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: So, at the time of the murders, Barry had recently
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: also emerged victorious in illegal battle against his cousins one
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: we've talked about earlier. The court ruled that they owed
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: him thirty thousand dollars dollars in legal fees, which was
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: far less than he had actually sought initially.
• 31:47
  Speaker 2: But yeah, like the cousins owed him money. Correct, Oh, okay,
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: that is not gonna go well because they took him
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: to court. Yeah, this battle lasted years. He won the battle,
• 32:00
  Speaker 2: and now it's like, okay, you owe me some restitutions
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: here because you know, I've been sitting in court for
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: years fighting this when I was in the right this
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: whole time. You cause this headache for me. You got
• 32:09
  Speaker 2: to pay for my shit? Well, so, and like the
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: cousins had their own legal fees that they had to pay,
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: and now they have to pay this guy's either clearly
• 32:17
  Speaker 2: not enjoying.
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: So that's yes, And who's going to be able to
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: afford it? More likely the billionaire.
• 32:23
  Speaker 2: Probably well yeah, and there, Yeah, I could imagine they
• 32:25
  Speaker 2: would just be like pissed.
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Now, honestly, I do want to clarify. I don't
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: think he has like a billion dollars in his bank
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: or had. It's more more likely that he had like
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: you know, stocks.
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: Investment tied up. Yeah.
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so I don't think he has all that cash
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: on hand, willy nilly, but I'm sure he.
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: Has a chunk of it though.
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Now, one of his cousins, Carrie Winter, from this lawsuit,
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: actually openly admitted that he himself had the motive and
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: the opportunity to kill Barry. He openly admits he had
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: the motive and opportunity unity to do it.
• 33:01
  Speaker 2: Well, I mean it wouldn't take like, I mean, anyone
• 33:03
  Speaker 2: could see that though.
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: One hundred percent. Now, Carrie set his own hours working
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: as a construction supervisor, which investigators noted gave him quite
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: the flexibility. However, even though he made a bold statement
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: like that, he was eventually clear suspicion through some solid alibis. Okay, yeah,
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: apparently he was watching Netflix Peaky Blinders and then also
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: went to a cocaine recovery addicts, meaning.
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: Oh, Wow. Okay, So okay.
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: I think it's very funny that, yeah, he was specifically
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: watching Peaky Blinders.
• 33:37
  Speaker 2: Well yeah, I mean I guess, yeah, Like, okay, last
• 33:40
  Speaker 2: night we watched a shit ton of Netflix. We stayed
• 33:43
  Speaker 2: up way too late, watching the shit.
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: Squid Game season two, the entire thing.
• 33:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And so it's interesting, like we would have a
• 33:50
  Speaker 2: perfect alibi, like clearly we were doing that, but also
• 33:53
  Speaker 2: you could have shit playing in your home and not
• 33:55
  Speaker 2: be there.
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: I mean, that's true, right, that's true. But either way,
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: he was most likely at the the cocaine thingy, you
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: know what I mean. Now, Barry's financial situation was also
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: raising some red flags. Yes, he was a billionaire, and
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: we just kind of covered this a little bit. You know,
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: probably a lot of money tied up in different things. Right, So,
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: just two weeks before the killings, Barry had asked his
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: son Jonathan, to repay him a few million dollars tens
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: of millions of dollars in fact, that he had borrowed
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: for his storage business. So Jonathan explained that this was
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: to help his dad through a tight financial spot. Whatever
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: that exactly means hasn't exactly been released. But despite this
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: Barry had reassured his son that he would continue supporting
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: him once his financial situation improved.
• 34:43
  Speaker 2: Okay, so maybe there even was bigger reason to them
• 34:47
  Speaker 2: selling their home, which I had thought about, like maybe
• 34:49
  Speaker 2: they needed some some money.
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: Like freed up potentially that's very very likely, honestly. I mean,
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: who's to say you need a seventy thousand dollars home
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: or sorry, seven million? Why did I say seventy thousand?
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: That's way off a seven million dollar home.
• 35:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Like if they sell that and then maybe they
• 35:05
  Speaker 2: buy a home that's two million, like that, he frees
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: up so much.
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: Money, exactly, money that you know what, you could probably
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: make more millions on if you invest it and know
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: what you're doing, which he clearly does. So Jonathan and
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: Barry were reportedly close, both personally and professionally, and you know,
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: came this kind of money transfer situation, and that's what
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: Jonathan's saying is, Yeah, tight financial spot, which opens up
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: a whole nother avenue of potential. You know what happens.
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: Then came another shocking revelation. Court documents released in twenty
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: twenty two revealed that Barry owed one billion another b
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: in there billion to various companies at the time of
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: his death, debts that he reportedly decided he was not
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: going to repay.
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: Holy shit, Yeah, so is he actually a billionaire if
• 35:56
  Speaker 2: he owes that much frickin' money?
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: Well, no shit. You know, his refusal to honor such
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: substantial debts very well could have angered some powerful people,
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: which again just opens the door for more suspects. In
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: November of twenty twenty, three, years after the murders took place,
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: the Toronto Police announced that they had identified a quote
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: person of interest. However, just two days later they clarified
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: that this could refer to one individual or multiple, which
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: just put a big old question mark right back on it.
• 36:32
  Speaker 2: Okay, because the.
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: Police are like, we've identified someone of interest. Actually it
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: could be one person or many, or we don't know.
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: It's like, yeah, what all right? So you don't know?
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: It didn't It doesn't seem like they really did narrow
• 36:45
  Speaker 2: down on someone.
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: Not really. So A year later, in December twenty twenty one,
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: the investigation saw a potential breakthrough when police did release
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: a short video clip found from a security camera. Now
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: the twenty second clip showed an una identified person dressed
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: in all dark clothing walking down a snowy sidewalk in
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: the Sherman's upscale neighborhood. Detective Brandon Price stated that the
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: individual's appearance kind of coincided with the estimated time of
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: the murders. So like, this dude or lady or whatever,
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: this person is walking through this neighborhood kind of looking
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: a little suspicious right around the time we believe that
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: they were killed. Now, despite the release of this footage
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: to the public, this person was never identified. Okay, while
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: it seemed like police were struggling to find a direction
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: to go at this point, Honey Sherman's sister, Mary Mary Shetman,
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: believe murders might have been a quote statement. She believed
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: it was tied to the couple's faith and their political beliefs.
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: See Mary pointed to the Sherman's loyal support for Israel
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: and Honey's outspoken Jewish identity. Honey had apparently made previous
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: comments that some might consider politically incorrect, allegedly particularly regarding
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: religious extreme extremists extremism extremism. Mary even told police six
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: months before her murder, Honey had attended a lecture about
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: cutting off funding for Muslim fundamentalist groups.
• 38:18
  Speaker 2: Hmm okay.
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: Now, Honey also reportedly believed that severing these financial channels
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: could weaken terrorist organizations, but also, according to Mary, Honey
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: also believed that Barry might have been financially supporting the
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: efforts aligned with her opposing cause, so they might have
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: opposing views, supporting opposing groups. This is all allegedly.
• 38:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, honestly, this is just a mess.
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: It is a mess.
• 38:44
  Speaker 2: It's just like too many options here.
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: Well that's the problem.
• 38:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, like this would be I feel like this would
• 38:49
  Speaker 2: just this is the worst puzzle to have to to
• 38:52
  Speaker 2: work on if you're like an investigator. Yep, it's not
• 38:56
  Speaker 2: fun at all. Like this just seems so not fun.
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: Nope. Now, another theory mentions Barry's lobbying efforts, which were
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: apparently nothing short of relentless, often pushing him at odds
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: with political leaders and institutions. If it isn't enough for
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: him to be tying up with other companies, institutions and
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: CEOs all this sort of thing, he's also getting his
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: hand not only in these other fundamentalist groups and stuff,
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: but also in literal federal political parties. He wasn't afraid
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: to take a stand and his influence stretched far beyond
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: the pharmaceutical industry. One big example was his opposition to
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: a law passed by Prime Minister Brian mulroney's government which
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: extended patent protections for brand name drug makers. Barry believed
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: this was bad news for smaller generic drug companies like Apotex,
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: and pushed hard to fight against it. When his effort
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: didn't succeed, he switched gears and backed Jean Cretchien and
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: the Liberal Party, who promised to revise the law if
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: they won in the nineteen ninety three election. So he
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: basically pulls out of this party and begins supporting this party.
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: He's going to then revise the law when they're in power.
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: And now he's putting money flow and of course, you know,
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: influence into pushing the Liberal Party that jankre Chen was representing.
• 40:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, politics is a bit of a scary game too, Hey, Yes.
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: And that's exactly what's going on. He's getting very heavy
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: in this very scary game. His lobbying didn't just stop
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: at these politics. He donated millions to the University of
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: Toronto for a research center, but when the university's efforts
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: to challenge the patent law fell flat Berry pulled his funding.
• 40:39
  Speaker 2: Oh shit, yeah, okay, that's not good. No, so he Okay,
• 40:46
  Speaker 2: I just have to say he is like like very
• 40:52
  Speaker 2: I don't know if I want to say emotional, but
• 40:53
  Speaker 2: like he like isn't afraid to go out there and
• 40:56
  Speaker 2: like speak his mind and piss anyone off.
• 40:59
  Speaker 1: Really all definitely not not.
• 41:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, No, he's like he doesn't back down.
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: No, he's he's going to go for what he wants
• 41:06
  Speaker 1: and he doesn't care. Yes, he's going to do that.
• 41:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Now.
• 41:10
  Speaker 1: At the time of his death, Barry was caught up
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: in yet another political scandal. As a registered lobbyist, he
• 41:16
  Speaker 1: was under investigation for organizing a twenty fifteen fundraiser for
• 41:21
  Speaker 1: Justin Trudeau, an event that allegedly broke Canada's lobbying rules.
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: The investigation suggested Barry might have violated the Lobbyist Code
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: of Conduct, which could have led to a five year
• 41:32
  Speaker 1: lobbying ban. Instead of waiting for the verdict, Barry made
• 41:35
  Speaker 1: headlines by filing a lawsuit in twenty sixteen to shut
• 41:39
  Speaker 1: down the investigation. Needless to say, he had strong political
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: presence and made a lot of enemies, many of which
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: would have had a motive to want him dead.
• 41:51
  Speaker 2: Oh shit, I couldn't imagine having this many people that
• 41:56
  Speaker 2: could like potentially choose to end your life.
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: Right, that's terrible. Like the list literally seems endless. Yeah,
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: like where do you even start? Yeah, that's like being
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: like in a dollar store with a million dollars you
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: can buy one thing or like what.
• 42:15
  Speaker 2: Are you could just buy the whole good?
• 42:17
  Speaker 1: Like what are you gonna do? Like do you do this?
• 42:19
  Speaker 1: Do you want this? Like?
• 42:20
  Speaker 2: Well, because these are also like powerful people too that
• 42:23
  Speaker 2: they're dealing with that, I feel like, if you know,
• 42:27
  Speaker 2: did have a hand in this, could very easily not
• 42:32
  Speaker 2: have it.
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: Show for sure, right for sure? And even if they
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: were to find any sort of evidence, you think it's
• 42:38
  Speaker 1: going to be that powerful person that's going to link
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: to or do you think it's just gonna be the
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: hit man they hired?
• 42:43
  Speaker 2: Exactly?
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: So Now, unfortunately, the mystery surrounding the death of Barry
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: and Honey Sherman remains unsolved to this day.
• 42:52
  Speaker 2: Shit, I was just waiting. I was like, no, no,
• 42:55
  Speaker 2: this is gonna be solved. This has to be solved.
• 42:57
  Speaker 1: But god damn, despite years of destigation, countless theories, and
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: I mean, countless theories and a long list of possible motives,
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: from corporate rivals to family disputes and political tensions. No
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: suspects have been named, not even a suspect.
• 43:16
  Speaker 2: Well, and I mean, I guess there's even still the
• 43:18
  Speaker 2: potential that it, like it was a suicide too, Like
• 43:21
  Speaker 2: that's not fully I mean, it's kind of ruled out,
• 43:23
  Speaker 2: but I guess it's like still a possibility, right.
• 43:26
  Speaker 1: It is a possibility. It's I think just low chance of. Yeah,
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: it doesn't it doesn't add up to be a suicide.
• 43:36
  Speaker 2: Dang. I cannot believe that someone got away with this.
• 43:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, someone kidding me. Someone wanted them dead and someone
• 43:45
  Speaker 1: got exactly what they wanted.
• 43:47
  Speaker 2: Wow, and there's still this out there living their life.
• 43:50
  Speaker 2: I'm sure.
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 43:52
  Speaker 2: I mean I feel like it would probably have well,
• 43:55
  Speaker 2: oh man, I was just gonna say, I feel like
• 43:57
  Speaker 2: it was would probably be a hit man of sorts.
• 43:59
  Speaker 2: But then like they they I also think that they
• 44:03
  Speaker 2: may have known the person too, so frick I don't know, damn.
• 44:08
  Speaker 2: I In situations like this, I feel like when cases
• 44:11
  Speaker 2: like this aren't solved, that they were just like all
• 44:13
  Speaker 2: doomed because if anything should be solved, like if you
• 44:16
  Speaker 2: think a billionaire's murder could would be solved, right, right.
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: Because I mean the family is gonna probably have the
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: money to throw at you know, private investigators and all
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: this stuff to help solve it.
• 44:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and they would themselves you think, have like protection,
• 44:32
  Speaker 2: more protection than you know, the average joe.
• 44:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but here we are.
• 44:37
  Speaker 2: Huh.
• 44:38
  Speaker 1: Clearly it shows that despite money, despite power, despite whatever
• 44:43
  Speaker 1: situation you're in, we're no different than than each other.
• 44:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Wow, huh that one. That one is. I mean
• 44:55
  Speaker 2: I can kind of understand why I didn't hear about it, because,
• 44:57
  Speaker 2: like it's kind of a bummer that it's not solved either, right,
• 45:01
  Speaker 2: Like I think if there was, if it got solved
• 45:04
  Speaker 2: and there was someone that went to jail and like
• 45:06
  Speaker 2: through court and stuff, we would have ended up hearing about.
• 45:09
  Speaker 1: This more so probably. So I do have to say
• 45:13
  Speaker 1: this is probably one of my least favorite cases I've covered.
• 45:17
  Speaker 2: Well, I also have to say this would be a
• 45:18
  Speaker 2: shit show to research, like that is the whole time
• 45:22
  Speaker 2: you're presenting him, Like, thank God, I do not pick this.
• 45:25
  Speaker 1: There's books, there's documentaries, there's TV series, there's article after
• 45:29
  Speaker 1: article after there is so much on this and all
• 45:33
  Speaker 1: of it is theories because there is not an ounce
• 45:36
  Speaker 1: of fucking evidence out of this.
• 45:39
  Speaker 2: Wow.
• 45:39
  Speaker 1: Hey yeah. The only evidence that I was actually able
• 45:42
  Speaker 1: to come across, the only actual evidence was what came
• 45:45
  Speaker 1: out of the autopsy and the video footage. That's it.
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: That's all I found for physical, actual tangible evidence.
• 45:53
  Speaker 2: You have to wonder if they had, you know, on
• 45:57
  Speaker 2: day one, had this labeled as a home aside that
• 46:02
  Speaker 2: or like a murder or whatever, if if those results
• 46:07
  Speaker 2: would it change, you know, if they were if they
• 46:10
  Speaker 2: would have been able to find the evidence, or if
• 46:13
  Speaker 2: even regardless of that, if it still would be an
• 46:15
  Speaker 2: unsolved thing.
• 46:16
  Speaker 1: I don't know. That's hard to say because honestly, like
• 46:20
  Speaker 1: in a in a mansion like that, in like billionaires,
• 46:25
  Speaker 1: they have.
• 46:25
  Speaker 2: Staff, right, m right, Yeah, I never thought of that.
• 46:30
  Speaker 1: So you have to think of the fact. Okay, what
• 46:32
  Speaker 1: if the hit man, you know, got to the staff
• 46:37
  Speaker 1: and figured out how to get in, or became a
• 46:39
  Speaker 1: staff member briefly, or was was a staff member before,
• 46:42
  Speaker 1: or who knows right and just knew how to get
• 46:44
  Speaker 1: in the home, huh, Or what if it was you know,
• 46:49
  Speaker 1: someone who the hit man was posing as, like oh,
• 46:51
  Speaker 1: you know, I'm a representative of this individual for this lawsuit.
• 46:54
  Speaker 1: This fucking can we talk to you for a minute? Sure,
• 46:56
  Speaker 1: come on in, and then killed. Like, there's so many
• 46:59
  Speaker 1: possibilities on how you can access their home because by
• 47:02
  Speaker 1: the sounds of it, Barry and Honey were not about
• 47:05
  Speaker 1: to be the kind of people who like are on
• 47:07
  Speaker 1: the other side of an intercolm and be like go away.
• 47:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah. But it also like they were deceased for like
• 47:13
  Speaker 2: a couple of days, two days approximately, without getting noticed.
• 47:16
  Speaker 2: So that doesn't make any sense either.
• 47:20
  Speaker 1: Well, I that's one part I didn't actually research, but
• 47:23
  Speaker 1: I do know that there was like a timeline with
• 47:26
  Speaker 1: the realtor thinking that they were supposed to be going
• 47:30
  Speaker 1: out of town or something like that, because when they
• 47:32
  Speaker 1: showed the home, they weren't supposed to be there because
• 47:34
  Speaker 1: they were off doing something. Okay, so they weren't. It
• 47:39
  Speaker 1: was a shock that they were at the home because
• 47:41
  Speaker 1: they weren't supposed to be there, right, Okay, So when
• 47:45
  Speaker 1: they're like, oh, you know, the house is quiet for
• 47:47
  Speaker 1: two days or whatever like that because they're not supposed
• 47:50
  Speaker 1: to be there.
• 47:51
  Speaker 2: Perfect time to show it and like, yeah, not have
• 47:53
  Speaker 2: people around, I imagine this is still kind of being like,
• 47:56
  Speaker 2: it's you know, maybe there's still probably people to this.
• 48:00
  Speaker 1: Oh, definitely, No, this is an ongoing investigation for sure.
• 48:04
  Speaker 1: It's not a closed case.
• 48:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Wow, sorry, I'm just like processing this. It's just
• 48:11
  Speaker 2: this one is kind of just mind blowing. This one
• 48:14
  Speaker 2: makes me think a lot.
• 48:16
  Speaker 1: This is why this is probably my least favorite case,
• 48:19
  Speaker 1: or at least one of because I love a mystery case.
• 48:21
  Speaker 1: I love the thought of, you know, what could have happened.
• 48:25
  Speaker 1: But the problem with this is there is too many possibilities,
• 48:31
  Speaker 1: like we couldn't even fathom coming up with every angle.
• 48:35
  Speaker 1: It's just a jumbled mess of Hey, someone didn't like them,
• 48:41
  Speaker 1: someone killed them, yeah, and then it's just random theory
• 48:44
  Speaker 1: after random.
• 48:45
  Speaker 2: Fury, endless possibilities. Really it is.
• 48:48
  Speaker 1: It's an un I'm not saying it's an unsolvable case,
• 48:52
  Speaker 1: but with the information that is given to us at
• 48:54
  Speaker 1: the public right now, it's an unsolvable, un fathomable situation.
• 49:01
  Speaker 2: Like a needle in a haystack stock stack.
• 49:04
  Speaker 1: What is the saying needle in a haystack?
• 49:06
  Speaker 2: Okay, I did get it right.
• 49:08
  Speaker 1: Well, I feel like it's not even a needle in
• 49:09
  Speaker 1: a haystack. I feel it is because I feel like
• 49:12
  Speaker 1: we're I feel like the police are doing a needle
• 49:15
  Speaker 1: in a haystack. That's what I feel like they're doing
• 49:17
  Speaker 1: because they have, you know, evidence that they're not released
• 49:20
  Speaker 1: in the public or whatever right for what we're given.
• 49:23
  Speaker 1: I feel like we're given a picture of a haystack
• 49:27
  Speaker 1: and expected to find the needle. That's what I feel like,
• 49:30
  Speaker 1: And that's why I don't like this case. It's because
• 49:31
  Speaker 1: it's like, what do you expect to come of this?
• 49:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's hard, Like your mind wants to go about, like, oh,
• 49:37
  Speaker 2: through all the possibilities, but it's just it's like impossible. Yeah,
• 49:41
  Speaker 2: so huh, well, good job researching that one. I'm glad
• 49:45
  Speaker 2: that that it was you and not me.
• 49:48
  Speaker 1: Thank you, thank you. It's an interesting case. Like I say,
• 49:51
  Speaker 1: it's not one of my favorites, but it's definitely an
• 49:53
  Speaker 1: interesting case that piqued my interest and it was still
• 49:55
  Speaker 1: worth sharing.
• 49:56
  Speaker 2: Well yeah, totally worth sharing. Its just I feel like
• 49:59
  Speaker 2: I would to take me forever. I would have been
• 50:01
  Speaker 2: all over the place.
• 50:02
  Speaker 1: So oh so was I? So was I?
• 50:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah?
• 50:04
  Speaker 1: You actually, if going through this episode, you might have
• 50:06
  Speaker 1: heard me being all over the place because my research,
• 50:09
  Speaker 1: my brain, everything was all over the place and it
• 50:12
  Speaker 1: was really hard to put together.
• 50:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so it would be so well. Anyway, you did
• 50:16
  Speaker 2: a good job.
• 50:17
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• 50:19
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• 50:22
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• 51:34
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