Latest / Karl and Crew / Tips to Effectively Defend Your Faith with Abdu Murray & Equipping Teens to Stand in Faith with Dr. Jonathan Morrow

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Tips to Effectively Defend Your Faith with Abdu Murray & Equipping Teens to Stand in Faith with Dr. Jonathan Morrow · Karl and Crew

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  S1: Broadcasting from Chicago, across North America and beyond. It's Carl
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  S1: and crew.
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  S2: Come as you are an experienced guide, overcome what seems
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  S2: impossible and live as you never imagined.
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  S1: Start your morning with a laugh.
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  S2: Cold spaghetti's. Great. Okay.
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  S3: Okay, I disagree. I guess not. No, certainly it is not. No. Okay. Well, man,
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  S3: I'm going back.
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  S2: To my bachelor days. I guess I thought cold spaghetti
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  S2: was universally loved.
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  S4: I've never been known for, like, high levels of coordination.
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  S4: That's just. It feels like.
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  S2: I've never been known for high levels of coordination.
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  S1: Delivering the truth daily.
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  S4: If it were possible to have every worldly gain available
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  S4: and you're forfeiting your soul. There's no amount of gain
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  S4: that would make it worth it.
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  S5: Our own way never ever works. Because it's apart from
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  S5: the life source, which is God.
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  S6: For me, growing up, love was always conditional and can
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  S6: be taken from you. Christ's love can't. And he went
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  S6: to the cross with my mind and my heart that night.
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  S1: Now from the call of Hope Studios, this is Carl
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  S1: and crew.
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  S4: I've been looking at First Peter 315 today. But in
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  S4: your hearts, honor Christ. The Lord is holy, always being
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  S4: prepared to make a defense to anyone who asks you
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  S4: for a reason for the hope that is in you,
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  S4: yet do it with gentleness and respect. And then it
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  S4: goes on. But we're going to stop there. Always be
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  S4: prepared to make a defense to anyone who asks you
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  S4: for a reason for the hope that is in you.
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  S4: Has this ever happened to you? Like in real life,
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  S4: that someone asked you about the hope that you have?
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  S4: Maybe not in those specific words, but there was a curiosity.
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  S4: There was a question. Somebody saw something in you that
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  S4: made them ask 805 557, 57898 805 557898. The flip
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  S4: side is maybe you saw something in someone else a hope,
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  S4: a joy, a peace that made you ask them. Abdu Murray,
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  S4: who we heard from earlier, that was his story. Yes,
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  S4: he was asking and some people were prepared and others weren't.
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  S4: And he was asking with not necessarily the intent to believe.
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  S4: He wanted to kind of disprove.
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  S5: Yeah, he threw some people off guard.
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  S4: But either way, it didn't matter his motive. God used
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  S4: the questions. So I want to know, have you had
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  S4: this happen, whether you were the one being asked or
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  S4: you were the asker? There was a gospel conversation that
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  S4: started with a question why are you hopeful? Why are
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  S4: you joyful? 800 555, 78, 98. We'd love to hear
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  S4: what this has looked like in your own life. 805. Five. 57898.
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  S4: First Peter 315. That's our theme verse this morning.
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  S1: Helping you take the next step in your walk with Jesus.
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  S2: God longs for us today to seek him and ask
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  S2: him to move in ways that we never could.
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  S1: You're listening to Carl and crew.
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  S4: Well, a couple of years ago, I said, I want
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  S4: to become stronger in my ability to defend the faith.
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  S4: Apologetics is the defense of the faith. Using reasoning, logic,
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  S4: being able to kind of anticipate and counter objections that
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  S4: people may have. Yeah. So I signed up for a
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  S4: course that's no longer offered, but at the time it was,
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  S4: it was available that you could pay a small fee
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  S4: and you became part of this cohort that they, they
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  S4: took through. This was video based teaching, but there was
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  S4: also you had to interact with with other students on
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  S4: like a discussion board. And so you would have to
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  S4: post and kind of read what other people had posted.
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  S4: So one of the first things that I learned is
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  S4: that whenever you look at a worldview, there are four
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  S4: components to every worldview, meaning four main questions that any
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  S4: sort of belief system has to be able to answer.
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  S5: Gotcha.
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  S4: So origin, you have to be able to say, how
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  S4: did this all begin? Meaning what's the meaning of it? Morality.
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  S4: How do you determine what's right and wrong and ultimately destiny?
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  S4: What happens after we die? Origin. Meaning. Morality. Destiny. Four
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  S4: components of any worldview. Whether somebody is agnostic, atheist, new age.
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  S4: Fill in the blank. How would you answer those questions?
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  S4: So the first two assignments look like this. They didn't
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  S4: involve us really doing any sharing of the faith, which
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  S4: I was surprised. I was expecting to kind of jump
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  S4: right in like, go ahead, coach me up, tell me
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  S4: what I need to know. But the first exercise was
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  S4: to interview a person and try to figure out what
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  S4: their worldview was, be able to articulate it by asking
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  S4: them some questions. So what do they believe about origin?
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  S4: What do they believe about the meaning of life? How
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  S4: do you determine what is right and wrong? And so
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  S4: I interviewed one of my neighbors, lived in a condo
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  S4: building at the time, and she so graciously agreed, like, sure,
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  S4: I'll be a part of this little experiment, this assignment
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  S4: for you. And so it was a really interesting conversation.
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  S4: She had a a Catholic background. She had had some
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  S4: church exposure that wasn't a positive experience for her necessarily.
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  S4: And then she kind of walked away. And so she
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  S4: would consider herself, I don't remember her actually putting a
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  S4: name on it. Like, I don't think she said I
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  S4: am agnostic, but based on my determination of kind of
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  S4: how she viewed life, she had a kind of a
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  S4: I believe in doing good things. I believe in trying
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  S4: to be a good person. And so it was interesting
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  S4: to try to get somebody who had probably no, like,
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  S4: really no faith at all.
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  S5: Yeah. Not not tied to something.
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  S4: To put into words what it is that she believed
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  S4: about these different things.
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  S5: Yeah. That's hard. I mean, the answer for a lot
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  S5: of those is kind of, well, I guess I don't know.
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  S4: And so then the next assignment was to find somebody
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  S4: who had a defined worldview that was different than my own.
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  S4: So I went from somebody who had kind of no
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  S4: real faith at all to interview some, interviewing somebody who
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  S4: was devout Muslim. He was a at the time, was
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  S4: working with my husband. And I knew that he took
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  S4: his faith very seriously, that he, throughout the workday, would
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  S4: would make sure that he had time to pray that he,
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  S4: he fasted at set times during the year. And so
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  S4: it was really interesting to just hear what he had
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  S4: to say. And I was blown away by how much
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  S4: how open he was to the conversation.
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  S5: Really. Was he excited to talk with you?
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  S4: Oh, yeah. He was excited to talk to me. And
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  S4: he knew that he knew exactly what the assignment was. Sure,
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  S4: he he knew well what my husband and I believe.
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  S4: And there there wasn't any animosity. There was simply a
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  S4: willingness to try to hear him out.
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  S5: Yeah. And I was going to say, I'm sure most
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  S5: people don't ask you know him about his story. And
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  S5: he was probably excited to be able to share it.
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  S4: He really was. And so what I learned from that
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  S4: exercise is that sometimes we can go into this idea
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  S4: of sharing our faith, kind of like we're going to
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  S4: take a microphone and go up on a platform on
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  S4: a Sunday morning and have an audience of somebody who
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  S4: just wants to hear what we have to say about Jesus.
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  S4: Maybe that happens sometimes, but cultivating the discipline of actually
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  S4: listening to somebody else, like you're sharing your story, they're
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  S4: sharing their story, too. So you're not at any point
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  S4: in time, it's considered rude to kind of dominate the conversation.
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  S4: Have you ever talked to somebody and if you're honest,
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  S4: like they didn't really care what you had to say.
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  S4: They just kind of wanted to talk about themselves.
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  S5: Yeah, I, I didn't have a conversation. I just got
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  S5: talked at.
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  S4: And you had that had that experience. Diana.
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  S6: Oh, yes. I mean, you you're having this conversation. You're thinking,
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  S6: wait a minute, when did this derail? Where's this going?
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  S4: Like, I'm still here. Yeah. And so we know that, like,
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  S4: I think we and, and most people who are self aware,
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  S4: you have this feeling when you when you're like, oh,
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  S4: I've talked for a long time. I should probably shut
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  S4: up now and let somebody else talk. Or maybe that's
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  S4: just happened to me.
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  S3: No.
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  S5: Usually I catch it after where I like, oh man,
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  S5: I spent way too much time talking.
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  S3: Stop talking, stop talking. On that one.
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  S4: Yeah, exactly. And so those rules don't go out the
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  S4: window just because we're talking about Jesus. Now we know
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  S4: that we are. We believe that what is true is true.
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  S4: We know that there is truth. So it's not this
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  S4: idea that what you believe is good for you. What
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  S4: I believe is no, no, no, no, not at all.
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  S4: We believe in absolute truth. But if we're going to
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  S4: engage in conversation with people. Let's be humble enough to
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  S4: listen to what people have to say. To answer the
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  S4: questions that they have to share and allow them to
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  S4: share and give a reason for the hope that we
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  S4: have in Christ.
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  S5: Exactly.
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  S4: So I learned how to listen well during that assignment,
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  S4: and it kind of took the pressure off to where
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  S4: it was like, I'm just having a conversation with this guy.
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  S4: I'm not like, okay, let me make sure that I
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  S4: convert him right now. Like I got, I got 15 minutes.
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  S4: Let me go, go.
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  S5: Go the Romans Road.
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  S4: And I want to be clear, sometimes the Lord may
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  S4: open that door.
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  S5: Sure.
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  S4: But it's that humble, relational listening, responding, really hearing people
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  S4: that I think is the heart of evangelism. And sometimes
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  S4: what we miss when we just go in with our
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  S4: gospel tract and our set line of things that we
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  S4: want to get out, and then we end up not
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  S4: really having a conversation, but just kind of talking at somebody.
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  S5: Yeah, absolutely. And we have to be careful about that.
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  S5: I think, like you said, there are times and places
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  S5: for those things. Sure. Paul and, and the disciples, they
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  S5: would go and preach in the synagogues. And so, yeah,
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  S5: they were talking to a lot of people all at
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  S5: one time. There's room for it. But there's also a
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  S5: relational aspect. And when you're in conversation with someone, you
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  S5: have to treat it like a conversation, not like a
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  S5: presentation all the time. Yeah. And so.
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  S3: You're.
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  S4: You're prepared to make a defense to anyone who asks
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  S4: you for a reason for the hope that is in you,
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  S4: yet do it with gentleness and respect the gentleness, the respect,
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  S4: the asking, the answering.
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  S5: I think that's a part of the verse that we
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  S5: never read. Uh, we always say, you know, be prepared
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  S5: to make a defense for the hope that's within you. Yeah.
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  S5: But with gentleness and respect.
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  S3: Gentleness.
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  S4: And.
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  S3: Respect is a part of it. Oh, yeah. Don't cut
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  S3: off the tail there.
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  S4: Be ready, be ready. That's the takeaway. Be ready for
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  S4: that conversation and live the kind of hope filled life
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  S4: that makes somebody ask you questions about it.
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  S1: This is Carl and Crew on Moody Radio.
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  S4: Well, as we've been talking about preparation all week, that's
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  S4: been our theme. Are you prepared to make a defense
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  S4: of the faith, to give a reason for the hope
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  S4: that you have in Christ? This comes out of First
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  S4: Peter 315. It can feel a little intimidating. You can
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  S4: feel like I never went to Bible school. I don't
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  S4: have any kind of like formal training. So being prepared
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  S4: to make a defense. Sounds like some sort of, like,
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  S4: courtroom thing. Is that possible for the. The average person
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  S4: got a special guest joining us. He's become a favorite
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  S4: here in Carl and crew. Abdu Murray. He's a speaker.
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  S4: He's an author. He's president of Embrace the Truth. Now,
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  S4: most of his life he was a proud Muslim until
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  S4: a nine year journey investigation pointed him to the Christian faith. Abdu,
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  S4: thanks for being with us again. In your own story.
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  S4: You obviously did not know this verse, but you wanted
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  S4: to be someone who had a good, clear reason as
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  S4: to why you believed what you believed. Is that accurate?
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  S7: Oh, that's absolutely accurate. In fact, when I was asking
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  S7: Christians why they were Christians, when I was a Muslim,
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  S7: they didn't give me reasons. They just gave me like
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  S7: sort of history, like, oh, why we go to the
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  S7: Presbyterian Church on Christmas and Easter. So I guess I'm
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  S7: a Presbyterian. And I thought to myself, well, you don't
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  S7: do that with anything in your life. You don't prepare
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  S7: for school that way. You don't prepare for your job
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  S7: or retirement or your marriage without thinking about it. Why
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  S7: wouldn't you think through your eternity with that? And along
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  S7: the way, there were Christians who actually were prepared to
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  S7: share their faith. And they did. And they did it
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  S7: not only intellectually, but also emotionally compelling ways where they
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  S7: married the two things together. And although it took me
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  S7: nine years. It wasn't because the answers were hard to find.
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  S7: It's because the answers were hard to accept. But the
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  S7: answers were there. And I thank God for those Christians who, uh,
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  S7: were prepared to share their faith because they encountered someone
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  S7: like me who needed reasons, not just emotions, but also reasons.
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  S7: And I do believe those things walk hand in hand.
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  S7: And the good news is the Christian faith offers you both.
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  S4: Yeah. Now, when you look at your own journey, you know,
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  S4: it's interesting that you noted that there were historical reasons
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  S4: that Christians gave if you were honest. I mean, how
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  S4: much of what of your commitment to your Islamic faith
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  S4: was rooted in tradition and cultural belief as well?
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  S7: Yeah. And that was the thing that I was confronted
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  S7: with when I started to read the Bible. I came
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  S7: across a passage where John the Baptist is challenging people
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  S7: in Luke chapter three with the commensurate, uh, account in
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  S7: Matthew chapter three, where John the Baptist is saying, look,
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  S7: tradition doesn't save you guys. Truth is what saves. And
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  S7: the truth is, is that Jesus is who he says
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  S7: he was. And he's kind of things. Well, that challenged
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  S7: me because I was asking Christians, why are you a Christian?
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  S7: They'd say tradition. I'd say, not good enough. But then
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  S7: John the Baptist actually, as I was reading this book.
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  S7: Not to believe a word of it really, but reading
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  S7: this book, he challenged me. Why are you a Muslim?
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  S7: And I had put Christians on the defensive for so
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  S7: long that many of them hadn't actually had that chance
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  S7: to ask me that. Had they asked me, I would
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  S7: have gone into, oh, this is why I believe the
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  S7: Quran wasn't changed. And this is why I believe Islam
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  S7: is the greatest religion in the history of the world.
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  S7: But the real reason fundamentally was because I was raised
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  S7: that way. And so I found reasons to justify my
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  S7: belief that the question I had in my in my
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  S7: own heart was, do I have enough good reasons, or
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  S7: do I just want this to be true? Um, and
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  S7: I went on a long journey to find out if
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  S7: it's true, not just do I want it to be true.
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  S7: And the good news is, is that I found the truth.
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  S7: The bad news was in the interim was that it
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  S7: wasn't the thing I was raised in. But hallelujah, honestly,
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  S7: I the struggle was worth it. Um, and if you're,
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  S7: if anybody is sitting there and they're doubting and they're wondering,
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  S7: do I believe this because I'm supposed to let's say
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  S7: you're a Christian and you're wondering the same question, do
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  S7: I believe it because I'm supposed to? Don't believe it
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  S7: because it's true. And the reality is, when you look,
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  S7: you will find a lot of answers for your questions.
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  S4: You know, that's so reassuring to for someone to hear,
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  S4: I'm sure, because any sort of doubts can feel so
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  S4: unnerving when you go, why do I believe? Maybe you're
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  S4: you're listening and you're wrestling with that right now and
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  S4: feeling like I don't, I maybe I don't have good reasons.
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  S4: And it's, I'm glad that you give the encouragement to,
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  S4: not to shrink back from those doubts. Don't try to
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  S4: stuff them away and say, okay, I'm just, I don't
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  S4: want to think about it. I don't want to wrestle.
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  S4: I want to just kind of stay in this place
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  S4: that I've been. But the wrestling is, is where we
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  S4: gain confidence, right?
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  S7: Absolutely. 100%. I mean, look, doubt is not this dirty word.
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  S7: I know that the Bible says anything is not of
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  S7: faith is sin, but, um, uh, doubt is not the
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  S7: the opposite of faith. Distrust is the opposite of faith. Um,
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  S7: cynicism can be the opposite of faith, but doubt if
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  S7: it drives us to actually find answers is a good thing.
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  S7: John the Baptist, who was the forerunner of Jesus, who
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  S7: was so destined to be the forerunner of Jesus that
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  S7: when he wasn't even born yet, when he came into contact,
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  S7: into proximity with Jesus. Even when Jesus wasn't born yet,
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  S7: John left in his in his mother's womb. That's how
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  S7: close he was to Jesus. And yet, when things get
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  S7: hairy in his life and he is imprisoned for doing
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  S7: the right thing, um, and he's facing beheading. He sends
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  S7: his disciples to ask Jesus, are you the one who
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  S7: is to come, or should we look for another? In
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  S7: other words, John had doubts and Jesus doesn't say, you
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  S7: go tell that faithless, lousy, heartless cousin of mine. He
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  S7: doesn't do that. He says, go and tell John what
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  S7: you see and hear. In other words, go give John
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  S7: the evidence he needs to bolster his faith. Then Jesus
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  S7: compliments John on being a person that there's been no
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  S7: greater man born among women than John the Baptist. So
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  S7: even though John had expressed doubt, Jesus rewarded his sincere
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  S7: question with evidence and with reasons. And so if John
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  S7: the Baptist can have his moments, we can have our
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  S7: moments too. If they drive us to the foot of
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  S7: the cross, to the feet of Jesus to ask him
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  S7: some sincere questions, we'll get answers. We really will.
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  S4: You know, thinking back to those conversations, you mentioned that
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  S4: there were some Christians that you would kind of try
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  S4: to interrogate really more to prove them wrong, it sounds like,
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  S4: than to actually engage in meaningful dialogue. And you were
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  S4: quickly able to kind of shut them down. But the
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  S4: ones who engaged with you and were able to give
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  S4: you reasons. What about those conversations? Do you remember? Did
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  S4: they point you to scripture? Did they point you to
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  S4: historical fact, or did they just ask you questions that
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  S4: made you think more deeply?
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  S7: They really did all of those things. And certain people
• 17:21
  S7: did certain things better than others and like all of
• 17:24
  S7: us do. Um, some said, you know what? I got
• 17:26
  S7: to say this this is an important thing. Some said
• 17:28
  S7: the best words you can say to a person because
• 17:31
  S7: they're true. I don't know, but I'll get back to you.
• 17:34
  S7: And then they did. And that showed me a level
• 17:37
  S7: of care and concern for my well-being that wasn't. I
• 17:39
  S7: want to show you that I win arguments or that
• 17:41
  S7: I'm right and you're wrong. They wanted to say, I
• 17:44
  S7: want to look for the truth. That's a really good question.
• 17:46
  S7: They took my questions seriously, and then they looked into
• 17:49
  S7: it and got back to me. A lot of times
• 17:51
  S7: it was pointing to historical realities. A lot of times
• 17:53
  S7: it was pointing to theological realities and things that were
• 17:57
  S7: bothering me. They really adapted their response to the questions
• 18:00
  S7: I actually had. In other words, they listened to the
• 18:03
  S7: questions I had, not the questions they hope I had.
• 18:06
  S7: Because we can we can prepare ourselves historically to say,
• 18:10
  S7: you know, Jesus rose from the dead, which is wonderful.
• 18:12
  S7: We we should all do that. But there are times
• 18:14
  S7: when someone says, look, I have questions related to suffering
• 18:17
  S7: and meaning and purpose, and Islam says this, or atheism
• 18:22
  S7: gives me this sort of response, or Buddhism does respond
• 18:27
  S7: to the question they're actually asking. And people actually responded
• 18:30
  S7: to the questions I was asking. Sometimes they were historical,
• 18:33
  S7: sometimes they were scientific, sometimes they were existential. And they
• 18:39
  S7: carefully listened to the questions and answered the questions I
• 18:43
  S7: actually had, not the ones they were hoping I would have.
• 18:46
  S4: It's interesting because you you mentioned the the distinction, which
• 18:50
  S4: is a little bit of a nuance because there are,
• 18:53
  S4: you know, maybe you read a certain book or there's
• 18:55
  S4: someone that you follow. And so you're really confident in
• 18:57
  S4: one area, maybe the historical evidence for Jesus. And so
• 19:01
  S4: you feel well prepared there. So you want to default
• 19:04
  S4: to maybe where you feel more prepared. And that's not
• 19:07
  S4: actually what the person is asking, but it's like, hey,
• 19:10
  S4: but this is what I know. So let me give
• 19:12
  S4: this to you and hope that it helps. Clearly that
• 19:14
  S4: doesn't help.
• 19:16
  S7: Yeah. Well, but give you a quick story on this,
• 19:18
  S7: is that I was invited to speak to a Muslim
• 19:20
  S7: guy at his home. Um, and I got to his
• 19:22
  S7: home and, um, he came home from his job and
• 19:26
  S7: he was a dealer at a local casino, which is
• 19:28
  S7: just not a Muslim thing to do if you're strict
• 19:30
  S7: about Islam. Gambling is forbidden. It's haram. It's called. Yet
• 19:35
  S7: he was there and he came home and my friend
• 19:37
  S7: wanted me to speak to him about the historicity of
• 19:39
  S7: the resurrection of Jesus. So we had this sort of
• 19:41
  S7: ham handed way into talking about it, and we started
• 19:44
  S7: talking about it. But he interrupted me about midway through
• 19:47
  S7: some of the evidences I was giving. He says, look, look,
• 19:48
  S7: here's my problem. He says, you're from south Lebanon. I'm
• 19:51
  S7: from south Lebanon. He's like, my issue is, why does
• 19:55
  S7: God allow such terrible things to happen to our people
• 19:59
  S7: in the middle of a conflict like this? That's my
• 20:01
  S7: big issue. You see, the issue wasn't the resurrection. It
• 20:05
  S7: was this guy was kind of agnostic. He's like, I
• 20:07
  S7: don't understand God, even if he even exists, why he
• 20:09
  S7: allows suffering now. I wanted to address that question directly.
• 20:13
  S7: I shifted my thinking towards his existential question about suffering.
• 20:18
  S7: But here's the good news the cross and the resurrection,
• 20:22
  S7: the historical cross and the historical resurrection actually speak to
• 20:25
  S7: those issues. So don't shy away from the historical stuff.
• 20:30
  S7: If you can find through an honest conversation where they
• 20:33
  S7: shoehorn in so you don't have to lead with that.
• 20:37
  S7: But you can say, hey, I want to hear to
• 20:39
  S7: understand this. Where does this question on the morality of
• 20:41
  S7: allowing suffering come into place? This is now a philosophical
• 20:44
  S7: and theological and a deeply biblical question. We have tons
• 20:48
  S7: of Scripture about why God allows suffering for a greater good.
• 20:52
  S7: And that leads us to the cross and the historicity
• 20:55
  S7: of the cross, because God allowed suffering to happen there
• 20:58
  S7: for the greatest possible good that could ever be the
• 21:00
  S7: salvation of the whole world. So you don't have to
• 21:02
  S7: shy away from the things you know. You just have
• 21:05
  S7: to make sure you strategically and wisely apply them. That's
• 21:08
  S7: why Paul says, walk in wisdom toward outsiders. In Colossians
• 21:12
  S7: chapter four, verse five, where he says, walk in wisdom.
• 21:15
  S7: And what is wisdom? It's just tactically applied knowledge to
• 21:19
  S7: a given situation. So use what you know, but use
• 21:22
  S7: it when you know it's the necessary time to use it.
• 21:26
  S7: But one of the best skills you can have to
• 21:28
  S7: know that is to listen.
• 21:29
  S4: Yeah. Oh, such a good conversation. Abdu Murray with us
• 21:32
  S4: right now, president of Embrace the Truth. Coming up. Let's
• 21:35
  S4: get some practical help. If maybe you're feeling overwhelmed, like
• 21:38
  S4: I don't know about the historicity of the resurrection and
• 21:41
  S4: the evidence that Jesus actually was a real man who
• 21:45
  S4: walked the earth. I don't know that stuff. How do
• 21:47
  S4: I even start? I'm intimidated. Coming up, let's tackle it.
• 21:51
  S1: Celebrating the unstoppable gospel.
• 21:54
  S5: It's not that I've got to fill in these check boxes,
• 21:57
  S5: so he's okay with me, but it's that I get
• 21:59
  S5: to stand close to him so that I can experience
• 22:02
  S5: the life that he has for me.
• 22:04
  S1: You're listening to Cast and Crew.
• 22:06
  S3: We've got a.
• 22:06
  S4: Special guest with us this morning to help you be
• 22:08
  S4: prepared to give a defense. If someone is to ask
• 22:12
  S4: you a reason for the hope that you have in Christ.
• 22:14
  S4: A little bit of a paraphrase from first Peter 315.
• 22:17
  S4: For the person who's listening right now and feels overwhelmed
• 22:20
  S4: because maybe they've been born and raised in church, they
• 22:24
  S4: had to come to a point of following Jesus for themselves.
• 22:28
  S4: But they don't have they haven't studied a lot of this.
• 22:30
  S4: They didn't go on a nine year journey like you did,
• 22:32
  S4: where you really parsed out. Why? Why should I believe
• 22:37
  S4: that Christianity is true? What's a good starting place to
• 22:40
  S4: begin to prepare?
• 22:41
  S7: Well, the first thing you should do is to actually
• 22:43
  S7: just read your scriptures and really get into the commentaries
• 22:47
  S7: and a good study, understanding of the historical context and
• 22:52
  S7: the cultural context of the Scripture. I say that not
• 22:55
  S7: because the Bible is always the answer, but it really
• 22:58
  S7: is in many ways. Because, you know, when you look
• 23:00
  S7: at someone who is a Secret Service agent now, Secret
• 23:03
  S7: Service not not only protects the president and other officials,
• 23:06
  S7: but they also are anti counterfeiters. They hunt down counterfeit
• 23:10
  S7: bills as part of the Department of Treasury. Now, when
• 23:13
  S7: you ask a Secret Service agent, how do you spot
• 23:16
  S7: a counterfeit? They don't study the counterfeits. They study the
• 23:21
  S7: genuine thing. They study the details behind the $50 bill
• 23:25
  S7: so that when they see something that's remarkably convincing, they're
• 23:29
  S7: so familiar with the detail that something seems a little
• 23:31
  S7: off and they can kind of tell, even if they
• 23:34
  S7: don't know the detail itself specifically. They can they can
• 23:36
  S7: know this is fake and they can discover it more.
• 23:39
  S7: So the more you know your scriptures, the more you'll
• 23:41
  S7: know the challenges to that. But also you'll know when
• 23:43
  S7: to bring it in to the conversation. So know your
• 23:46
  S7: scriptures more than anything else. The second thing is there
• 23:49
  S7: are some really great resources. And at the risk of
• 23:51
  S7: a shameless plug, if you go to Embrace the truth.org,
• 23:56
  S7: we have a read, listen and watch tab where we
• 23:58
  S7: have a bunch of videos, a lot of articles, and
• 24:02
  S7: some great audio resources as well for people to get
• 24:05
  S7: started in understanding not only the veracity of their faith
• 24:09
  S7: when it comes to the resurrection, or how can Jesus
• 24:11
  S7: be God? How does the cross make sense? What about
• 24:14
  S7: the Trinity? But you'll also find responses to objections like
• 24:18
  S7: what about science and faith? And hasn't evolution put God
• 24:21
  S7: out of a job. We have a lot of great
• 24:23
  S7: stuff there for you. There are wonderful books. There's The
• 24:27
  S7: case for Christ and The Case for Facebook by Lee Strobel.
• 24:30
  S7: They're really engaging books. He wrote a really he did
• 24:33
  S7: a really great job with that. A good friend of mine, uh, J.
• 24:36
  S7: Warner Wallace, wrote an excellent book called Cold Case Christianity,
• 24:40
  S7: where he, as a very famous Cold case homicide detective,
• 24:44
  S7: talks about how you can go about a, an inquiry
• 24:47
  S7: into the historical evidence for Jesus. Um, so it's really,
• 24:50
  S7: really great stuff that's out there, but don't be paralyzed
• 24:53
  S7: by your lack. This is an important practical part. Don't
• 24:55
  S7: be paralyzed by the number of books you need to read. Now,
• 24:58
  S7: those are some really great entry level books, and you
• 25:01
  S7: can get more advanced by reading the footnotes in those books.
• 25:04
  S7: I highly recommend that I'm self-taught. I didn't go to seminary,
• 25:08
  S7: but those books were really helpful at the beginning stages
• 25:10
  S7: for me. So the one thing you can do really,
• 25:12
  S7: really well to prepare is to not say much. Just
• 25:16
  S7: listen by asking artful questions. You can just you can
• 25:20
  S7: just ask. Hey, what do you mean? How do you know?
• 25:24
  S7: You know, if someone has a different worldview than you,
• 25:25
  S7: if you say, hey, what do you think of Jesus?
• 25:27
  S7: Let's say it's to a Muslim and they say something.
• 25:29
  S7: You can say, how do you know that's true about Jesus?
• 25:31
  S7: Or let's say someone's an atheist and you say, where
• 25:34
  S7: do you think he came from? Oh, we're just cosmic accidents. Really?
• 25:37
  S7: What do you mean by accident? Explain more. And then
• 25:40
  S7: how do you know that? How do you know that
• 25:41
  S7: this universe wasn't created by a designer? It looks like
• 25:45
  S7: it was designed. How do you justify its lack of
• 25:47
  S7: design if there is such an appearance of design, you
• 25:50
  S7: see what you've done. You've just asked two questions. What
• 25:52
  S7: do you mean? How do you know? And you can
• 25:54
  S7: stay in control of a conversation and learn a bunch
• 25:57
  S7: about the person you're talking to. So you don't need
• 25:59
  S7: to know everything about their worldview. You just need to
• 26:02
  S7: know everything about that person in terms of that specific thing.
• 26:05
  S7: And you can use two questions to get there. And
• 26:07
  S7: then you can come back and you can prepare again
• 26:10
  S7: with saying, okay, this is their big, this is their issue,
• 26:12
  S7: this is their hang up. And then you read through articles,
• 26:14
  S7: you read some books, you go to some good websites
• 26:16
  S7: and you come back prepared and say, hey, I looked
• 26:18
  S7: into that thing you said, I saw this. What do
• 26:21
  S7: you think of this? And there you go. You don't
• 26:24
  S7: have to be prepared. Like a theologian and a PhD.
• 26:26
  S7: Just a little bit of preparation goes a long way.
• 26:29
  S4: You know, at the heart of what you said, that
• 26:32
  S4: you didn't say it explicitly, but it's certainly implied that
• 26:35
  S4: the tone and the the posture of heart is so
• 26:38
  S4: critical here. You know, we live in such a polarized
• 26:43
  S4: society where opposing viewpoints are met with such hostility. And
• 26:48
  S4: even you see people even cutting off relationships where I
• 26:52
  S4: can't even associate with somebody who believes this about the
• 26:55
  S4: world because I'm not safe with them. Uh, it is,
• 26:59
  S4: it has gone to a place where I've never seen
• 27:02
  S4: it in my lifetime. How do we enter into that
• 27:04
  S4: space with humility, where it's tempting to meet like fire
• 27:08
  S4: with fire when you feel like somebody is angry and
• 27:11
  S4: they they want to prove you wrong. How do we
• 27:14
  S4: maintain that posture of humility that I believe has to
• 27:16
  S4: be at the heart of every one of these conversations.
• 27:19
  S7: Absolutely. And this is where the ancient wisdom applies to
• 27:23
  S7: modern problems, and why the Bible is eternally contemporary to
• 27:27
  S7: what we're going through and why. I think it's not
• 27:29
  S7: a book written by a handful of fishermen and some shepherds,
• 27:32
  S7: but was really guided by the one who made those
• 27:34
  S7: shepherds and those fishermen. Um, you see Scripture all throughout it.
• 27:37
  S7: The first thing you notice is that it says that
• 27:38
  S7: we're all made in the image of God. So the
• 27:41
  S7: way to combat that is to not contribute to it.
• 27:44
  S7: When you look at someone and you know deeply that
• 27:47
  S7: no matter who you are and who they are, they
• 27:49
  S7: are made in the image of God, that means that
• 27:52
  S7: their opinions and the value of their opinions might be terrible.
• 27:56
  S7: They might have, frankly, idiotic opinions or morally horrible opinions,
• 28:01
  S7: but they are made in God's image. So as a Christian,
• 28:03
  S7: you are required to divorce the value of someone's idea
• 28:08
  S7: from the value of the person. And we're at where
• 28:10
  S7: we're at now. Because we don't do that. We value,
• 28:13
  S7: we equate an idea and a person. Um, and so
• 28:16
  S7: if we hate their idea, we can hate that person. Well,
• 28:18
  S7: we're not given that luxury. As Christians, we just can't
• 28:21
  S7: do that. Then you go to first Peter 315, which
• 28:23
  S7: is the theme verse we've been talking about. And one
• 28:26
  S7: of the things that's important about that is that Peter
• 28:29
  S7: says that not only do we always we always prepared
• 28:32
  S7: to make a defense to anyone who asks you for
• 28:34
  S7: a reason for the hope that is within you, we
• 28:36
  S7: do with gentleness and with respect. Now, what's interesting is
• 28:39
  S7: that we are preparing a defense to anyone who asks
• 28:43
  S7: you for a reason for the hope that is in you.
• 28:46
  S7: In other words, live a life so hope filled that
• 28:49
  S7: someone says, what's with you, man? And then respond to
• 28:52
  S7: them with gentleness and with respect. Um, and then finally
• 28:55
  S7: Colossians chapter four, verses five and six, where the apostle
• 28:59
  S7: Paul says, let your speech be gracious, seasoned with salt,
• 29:02
  S7: so you may know how you ought to answer each person.
• 29:05
  S7: He doesn't say, answer each objection, each worldview, and each controversy.
• 29:09
  S7: He says, answer each person questions. Controversies and worldviews don't
• 29:13
  S7: need answers? But people do, and they use their questions, controversies,
• 29:17
  S7: and worldviews to find them. If you answer a person
• 29:21
  S7: and you offer them hope, and you do it with
• 29:23
  S7: gentleness and with respect because you see them as made
• 29:25
  S7: in God's image, you will bring the temperature down and
• 29:29
  S7: there will be a lot more light than heat.
• 29:31
  S4: Abdu Murray always, always such a joy to have you
• 29:34
  S4: on with us. If you want more, he mentioned the website,
• 29:36
  S4: which has some great, great resources, some video that help
• 29:40
  S4: helps you answer some of the most commonly asked questions.
• 29:43
  S4: There's a top 20 there. Just text embrace to 805, five, five, 78, 98,
• 29:49
  S4: text embrace to 805 557898.
• 29:55
  S1: Walking closer to Jesus every day you're listening to Carl
• 29:59
  S1: and crew.
• 30:00
  S8: Well, if you are raising children.
• 30:02
  S4: Grandchildren, or you just have children in your life who
• 30:04
  S4: you love, the thing that you want for them more
• 30:07
  S4: than their happiness, more than their success, more than their achievement,
• 30:11
  S4: is for them to walk with the Lord, to not stray.
• 30:15
  S4: But we know that research shows that for many young
• 30:18
  S4: people who have been raised in the church, there comes
• 30:21
  S4: a critical point in their life, usually around college age,
• 30:26
  S4: where the ground that used to seem so firm can
• 30:28
  S4: start to feel a little unstable. And as parents, it
• 30:31
  S4: can be terrifying. Got a conversation I want you to
• 30:35
  S4: hear this morning with an expert. I think it's okay
• 30:38
  S4: to call him an expert on this topic. Doctor Jonathan Morrow.
• 30:41
  S4: He's an author, speaker, professor. He's authored several books, including
• 30:45
  S4: Welcome to College A Christ Centered Guide to Lasting Faith.
• 30:48
  S4: He's also the director of Cultural Engagement and Student Discipleship
• 30:52
  S4: for impact 360 Institute. Let's start with this. What were
• 30:56
  S4: you seeing that prompted you to write this book for
• 31:01
  S4: for people headed off to college and for their parents?
• 31:04
  S9: One of the things we're seeing in a distracted culture
• 31:06
  S9: is that students are confused and they need clarity, and
• 31:10
  S9: they're getting honestly swallowed up by a lot of what's
• 31:13
  S9: going on in our culture, what they scroll every day.
• 31:16
  S9: The challenge is relativism, truth, morality. Having defined their own identity,
• 31:22
  S9: all of that is exhausting. And they're like, is there
• 31:24
  S9: something that I can build my life on, or do
• 31:26
  S9: I just need to discard my faith as this sentimental thing, perhaps,
• 31:30
  S9: that I had growing up? But it's not really something
• 31:32
  S9: that's going to go with me in this next season.
• 31:33
  S9: And I want to see students follow Jesus for a lifetime.
• 31:35
  S9: That's what I want for our own three kids. And
• 31:37
  S9: that's why I wrote Welcome to College.
• 31:39
  S4: I know you've written about some of the ways to
• 31:43
  S4: wreck your faith, kind of as a warning. And as
• 31:46
  S4: I was reading through some of these, it was I mean,
• 31:48
  S4: it was almost chilling how accurate these are to some
• 31:52
  S4: of our own experience. We hear from so many people
• 31:54
  S4: who say, you know, I was raised in a in
• 31:57
  S4: a Christian home, but then, you know, I got to
• 31:59
  S4: my teen years or my young adult years and I
• 32:02
  S4: kind of fell away. And then I hit my late 20s,
• 32:05
  S4: early 30s and I found my way back and or
• 32:07
  S4: give some version of that testimony, Our lead host, Carl,
• 32:10
  S4: will often point out to people that you probably weren't
• 32:14
  S4: born again at five years old. Then you likely that
• 32:17
  S4: moment where you became a Christian was when it became
• 32:19
  S4: real to you, as in their own words. And so
• 32:22
  S4: speak to some of the ways that we can see
• 32:25
  S4: a young person wreck their faith.
• 32:27
  S9: Yeah, absolutely. And honestly, unfortunately, I've had a front row
• 32:31
  S9: seat to this over almost two decades of working with
• 32:34
  S9: students and doing research on this. And so here are
• 32:36
  S9: a couple of them. One is they never really own it.
• 32:38
  S9: And what I mean by that is they borrow it
• 32:40
  S9: from their parents or their youth pastor or their grandparents
• 32:43
  S9: or even their Christian school. A lot of kids grow
• 32:45
  S9: up in homeschool and Christian school, and they never really
• 32:48
  S9: make it their own. They never really say, this is
• 32:50
  S9: what I really believe. And because of that, when challenges
• 32:54
  S9: and pressure comes, they usually wilt. It's too fragile to
• 32:57
  S9: hold up. And that's the kind of the one of
• 33:00
  S9: the top ways. A couple other ones, they really replace
• 33:03
  S9: truth with feelings. And it's how I feel determines what's real.
• 33:07
  S9: And that mindset is not good because I don't know
• 33:10
  S9: about you. How often do your feelings change? Imagine that
• 33:12
  S9: as a middle school, high school, college student, like if
• 33:14
  S9: we're anchoring life's biggest questions to how we're feeling at
• 33:17
  S9: a particular moment, that's not going to work as well
• 33:19
  S9: as the sincerity, well, I'll just believe I was raised
• 33:22
  S9: in the South, or I was raised as a Christian
• 33:23
  S9: or raised in a Christian home. I guess I just
• 33:25
  S9: feel it right. And that's another one. Another one, which
• 33:28
  S9: is they let their phones disciple them. Here's the reality. Um,
• 33:32
  S9: the little rectangle box in our pockets is discipling all
• 33:36
  S9: of us, but especially the next generation, one scroll at
• 33:39
  S9: a time. And so what happens is a thousand little
• 33:41
  S9: nudges of their worldview. They don't get argued into a
• 33:44
  S9: new worldview. It's literally they get nudged into it emotionally
• 33:48
  S9: by little. One scroll after one swipe. And these influencers
• 33:52
  S9: shaped their views of what the good life is, what's true,
• 33:54
  S9: what's real, what's not, how they should feel about questions
• 33:57
  S9: of faith. One big one, um, is, is they treat
• 34:00
  S9: Christianity like a to do list where they, they go, look,
• 34:04
  S9: it's a, it's a perfectionist. It's a behavior modification to
• 34:07
  S9: do all the right things. And God will love me if,
• 34:09
  S9: number one, that's not the gospel. That's not Christianity. But
• 34:12
  S9: number two, it's exhausting. Here's the problem, Ali. They think
• 34:16
  S9: they've really tried Christianity and they haven't. Or they have
• 34:19
  S9: already tried the God thing because I couldn't keep the rules,
• 34:21
  S9: I couldn't keep the list. And now I guess I'm
• 34:24
  S9: gonna try something else. And that's so sad to me
• 34:27
  S9: because they've missed the gospel, number one. But then they've
• 34:29
  S9: got this transactional relationship with God where they're not really
• 34:34
  S9: leaning into the gospel, and they're not really enjoying the
• 34:37
  S9: freedom of that. Because here's the bottom line is, as
• 34:39
  S9: a follower of Jesus, because you're forgiven, you're free to
• 34:42
  S9: obey and grow. As I tell students all the time,
• 34:44
  S9: you know, God doesn't love you more. If you read
• 34:46
  S9: your Bible more, you just won't grow. If you don't.
• 34:49
  S9: God doesn't love you more if you pray more, but
• 34:51
  S9: you won't grow if you don't. And if you don't grow,
• 34:53
  S9: you don't experience the joy and the life that comes
• 34:55
  S9: from that.
• 34:56
  S4: Yeah. Jonathan Morrow with us right now. He is the
• 34:58
  S4: author of the book Welcome to College A Christ Centered
• 35:01
  S4: Guide to Lasting Faith. I listen to you on a
• 35:04
  S4: podcast recently, and you broke down. A couple of important
• 35:07
  S4: shifts that we've seen happened, happen culturally that are really
• 35:12
  S4: critical for particularly for parents, I think, to understand kind
• 35:15
  S4: of the moment that we're in. Is that enough of
• 35:17
  S4: a prompt? Do you do you remember what I'm talking about?
• 35:20
  S9: Yes, absolutely. Yeah. I wrote Welcome to College almost like
• 35:23
  S9: a cheat code for parents. So this cultural piece happens
• 35:26
  S9: because if you've ever been whitewater rafting, the what causes
• 35:29
  S9: the rapids is what's underneath the surface. We don't always
• 35:31
  S9: see and give a name to. So let me give
• 35:33
  S9: a name to a couple of these things which may
• 35:35
  S9: be new to you, but these are important things going on.
• 35:37
  S9: The first one is called scientism, which really has to
• 35:40
  S9: do with how we know things. And here's the big idea.
• 35:43
  S9: If how you know things is only the hard sciences,
• 35:46
  S9: guess what? Knowledge of history, morality, spirituality which the Bible
• 35:50
  S9: deals with are no longer subjects of knowledge. And knowledge
• 35:53
  S9: is what gives us authority to act in the world.
• 35:55
  S9: That's what gives us confidence. And then if truth goes away,
• 35:58
  S9: all you're left with is power and power dynamics and.
• 36:02
  S9: People try to impose their worldview or belief system rather
• 36:05
  S9: than persuade anymore. We're seeing that in a big way
• 36:08
  S9: across not only politics, but maybe you've wondered, where did
• 36:11
  S9: the acronym LGBTQ come from, for example? Well, the reason
• 36:15
  S9: why those letters are together is because they're allies against
• 36:19
  S9: a power structure, which is really a Christian worldview, and
• 36:21
  S9: the family and the good design that God has given.
• 36:25
  S9: And so they're allies. But but the L and the
• 36:27
  S9: T are at odds, right? A lesbian and a trans individual.
• 36:30
  S9: But they're against a Christian worldview. So it's a power dynamic.
• 36:34
  S9: And you're also seeing a shift in kind of the
• 36:36
  S9: sexual revolution where it's not just about behavior anymore, it's
• 36:39
  S9: about identity. You've got to affirm those things. And you
• 36:43
  S9: see kind of versions of Christianity adopting these things. And
• 36:46
  S9: I say Christianity loosely, really, it's progressive Christianity which removes
• 36:50
  S9: the gospel, where Jesus says, I'm the way, the truth,
• 36:52
  S9: and the life at the heart of it, and really
• 36:55
  S9: kind of puts kind of a secularized social justice or
• 36:58
  S9: something like that at the core of it and adopts
• 37:00
  S9: these views. But these shifts are hollowing out Christianity and
• 37:04
  S9: the generation that's coming up, Gen Z. Gen Alpha and
• 37:07
  S9: then they're growing up in a distracted world. And here's
• 37:09
  S9: the thing. You can't build a deep faith with a
• 37:11
  S9: distracted mind. And that's what I see so often with students.
• 37:14
  S9: We have to help them be able to slow down
• 37:16
  S9: long enough to think about why they believe what they believe,
• 37:19
  S9: and give them a vision for things that are actually
• 37:20
  S9: going to help them in this world that's deeply shaping
• 37:23
  S9: them in the other direction.
• 37:24
  S4: Doctor Jonathan Morrow with us right now. Coming up, I
• 37:27
  S4: want to tackle this one because I know as you're listening,
• 37:29
  S4: some of you are getting fired up and you're thinking
• 37:31
  S4: about how angry you are at fill in the blank,
• 37:34
  S4: the public school system, the political party, or you're angry
• 37:38
  S4: because you feel like these people, whoever these people are
• 37:41
  S4: in your mind, are stealing our children away from us.
• 37:44
  S4: But instead of a posture of anger, how can we
• 37:47
  S4: prepare to equip knowing that God is sovereign over all?
• 37:50
  S4: How can we help equip our children in the day
• 37:53
  S4: and the age that we are living in, to stand
• 37:55
  S4: firm in their faith, not anger, but preparedness coming up
• 37:59
  S4: here on Carl and Crew.
• 38:01
  S1: You're listening to Carl and Crew on Moody Radio.
• 38:05
  S3: Got a special.
• 38:05
  S4: Guest with us as we are in this season of preparation.
• 38:09
  S4: And this is May June. We're talking proms and high
• 38:13
  S4: school college graduations. But particularly for those of you who
• 38:16
  S4: have kids, got a junior in high school who's already
• 38:19
  S4: thinking about college, as many of you do. How do
• 38:22
  S4: we prepare our kids for the next stage of life,
• 38:25
  S4: where maybe all of the things that they've been raised in,
• 38:28
  S4: maybe the faith that they profess is going to come
• 38:30
  S4: under attack, maybe like never before. Doctor morrow has written
• 38:34
  S4: Welcome to College A Christ Centered Guide to Lasting Faith.
• 38:38
  S4: Parents right now may be feeling that anger, that frustration
• 38:42
  S4: that so much of what we are up against culturally.
• 38:46
  S4: It can feel like we're losing the battle for our
• 38:48
  S4: kids hearts and minds. What are some things that we
• 38:51
  S4: can do to prepare instead of getting angry?
• 38:54
  S9: Absolutely. And I love that posture because it should make
• 38:57
  S9: us angry. But lets be angry at the right things.
• 39:00
  S9: The ideas and the enemy who's trying to steal, kill
• 39:03
  S9: and destroy. But let's be tender and kind and thoughtful
• 39:06
  S9: about how we embrace and engage our kids and students.
• 39:10
  S9: Because here's the reality. One of the things that you
• 39:12
  S9: can do the most, and honestly, I would say the
• 39:14
  S9: foundation in your home is create space for your students
• 39:17
  S9: to ask questions, express doubts, and even share insecurities. Let
• 39:21
  S9: me give you an example of what that could look like.
• 39:23
  S9: I call this the freak out moment. You freak out
• 39:25
  S9: on the inside or the outside. Let's say your student
• 39:27
  S9: comes to you, your kid comes to you like, hey mom,
• 39:29
  S9: I'm not sure if I believe this or hey, my
• 39:31
  S9: friend is kind of struggling with sexuality and what wouldn't
• 39:34
  S9: Jesus love them? So you got an option in that
• 39:36
  S9: split second to go, hey, no and kind of explode?
• 39:40
  S9: Or you can say, hey, thank you so much for
• 39:43
  S9: trusting me enough to ask me that question. Here's what
• 39:45
  S9: you've done in that moment. That student your child has
• 39:47
  S9: just taken this risk to say, is Mom or dad
• 39:50
  S9: gonna freak out? And can I talk to them about stuff?
• 39:53
  S9: And in that moment, what you're doing is you're, hey,
• 39:54
  S9: let's talk about that together and then you can have
• 39:57
  S9: a further conversation. You don't want to kind of shame
• 40:00
  S9: or guilt them in those moments for struggling with their
• 40:02
  S9: belief or trying to wrestle with what they believe. So
• 40:05
  S9: that space is vital. Another thing, and think about this
• 40:08
  S9: as like, if you ever seen a foundation in a
• 40:11
  S9: home or a skyscraper, there's concrete and there's rebar that
• 40:15
  S9: goes into those, those different that structure that reinforces the
• 40:19
  S9: flex of the concrete so it doesn't crack. Well, in
• 40:21
  S9: many ways, reasons for faith is what you can do
• 40:23
  S9: for your child. They need to know why truth exists,
• 40:26
  S9: and you can know it, that it's reasonable to believe
• 40:28
  S9: that God exists, that Jesus was who he claimed to be,
• 40:31
  S9: and that he was raised from the dead. And how
• 40:33
  S9: do we think about history and those kind of questions?
• 40:35
  S9: And why can we trust the Bible historically and things
• 40:37
  S9: like that? And so they need reasons for faith so
• 40:41
  S9: that anchors them to be able to stand as they grow.
• 40:44
  S9: Because here's the thing. If they're going to own their faith,
• 40:47
  S9: they have to come to an understanding of that, not
• 40:49
  S9: you meaning mom or dad where they have to go,
• 40:52
  S9: is this really true? AM I going to arrange my
• 40:54
  S9: life around this? AM I gonna build my life on this?
• 40:57
  S9: One more. And. And I have a helpful PDF at
• 40:59
  S9: welcome to college.org on this for parents if you're driving
• 41:02
  S9: right now or on a treadmill.
• 41:03
  S3: But.
• 41:03
  S9: But like they need a, a grown up worldview, they
• 41:07
  S9: need a worldview they're not going to discard as irrelevant
• 41:10
  S9: the moment they just, they graduate high school. Yeah. Because
• 41:12
  S9: they might have fond feelings of growing up or going
• 41:15
  S9: to camp when they were a kid or something like that.
• 41:18
  S9: But they're like, hey, this doesn't do real work for
• 41:20
  S9: me in the real world, my world is much more complex.
• 41:22
  S9: I scroll my Instagram feed or whatever's going on. And
• 41:26
  S9: this is complex. Church and family kind of don't ever
• 41:30
  S9: navigate these things and show how Christianity applies to every
• 41:32
  S9: area of life, not just a Sunday morning, only Christianity.
• 41:35
  S9: And you have to help them understand how it answers
• 41:38
  S9: the deep questions about our origins and identity, meaning morality,
• 41:41
  S9: destiny that that Christianity speaks to those things. It brings
• 41:44
  S9: those things into focus, gives us confidence and clarity. So
• 41:47
  S9: those are just a few of the things that I
• 41:49
  S9: cover in Welcome to College. But like, those are conversations
• 41:52
  S9: that we can prepare in the high school years, the
• 41:54
  S9: teenage years leading up to and conversations all throughout the
• 41:56
  S9: college years as well.
• 41:57
  S4: You know, I love the way you put that a
• 41:59
  S4: grown up worldview because, you know, so many churches do
• 42:03
  S4: an incredible job preparing kids with understanding Bible stories. And
• 42:07
  S4: you have those old school, like, remember those flannel graphs
• 42:09
  S4: or whatever they're called, where you have the and maybe
• 42:12
  S4: know some Bible stories, some Bible characters have maybe even
• 42:15
  S4: participated in those dramas themselves. But there's a transition, I
• 42:19
  S4: think that has to happen where that faith becomes a
• 42:22
  S4: grown up faith. And so I'm so glad that you
• 42:24
  S4: put it that way. I'm curious from your own parenting
• 42:27
  S4: journey and obviously keep private what you need to keep private,
• 42:30
  S4: but how old are your kids and how have you,
• 42:32
  S4: I guess, implemented some of this in your own house.
• 42:35
  S9: I'm deeply committed to that's my first priority. And my
• 42:38
  S9: wife and I. So I've got a 21, 18 and
• 42:41
  S9: 13 year old. So in the middle of it, and thankfully,
• 42:44
  S9: by God's grace, they're walking with Jesus. But we talk
• 42:46
  S9: about these things. We develop a relationship, but we also
• 42:49
  S9: narrate true things and we talk about hard things And honestly,
• 42:53
  S9: we've had to have conversations with our 13 year old
• 42:56
  S9: about the world we live in that we wouldn't want
• 42:59
  S9: to have that early, but we want to be the
• 43:00
  S9: ones to introduce those things. And so thankfully, they're in
• 43:04
  S9: a place where they're, hey, following. Here's what I put it.
• 43:07
  S9: It's like following Jesus is not the easiest way to live,
• 43:10
  S9: but it is the best because it's true and it's
• 43:12
  S9: based in reality. It's not fairy tales for grownups. It's
• 43:15
  S9: not make believe. And we've tried to create an honest
• 43:18
  S9: environment where we can talk about that. But we've also
• 43:20
  S9: been really clear about, hey, this is why this is true.
• 43:22
  S9: We're not just Christians because it works. We're not just
• 43:25
  S9: Christians because we believe it or we're born a certain place.
• 43:27
  S9: But Jesus really is who he claimed to be. And
• 43:29
  S9: if he was raised from the dead, that changes everything.
• 43:32
  S9: If he wasn't raised from the dead, find a new religion.
• 43:34
  S9: And so we've kind of built it that way and
• 43:36
  S9: then say, hey, how do we apply this to every
• 43:38
  S9: other life and dating and relationships and technology and screens
• 43:42
  S9: and AI and all the things, and truly try to
• 43:44
  S9: make a place where they can ask anything they want,
• 43:46
  S9: whenever they want, but really, but also deeply love them
• 43:49
  S9: and apologize quickly. I would say that like as a
• 43:51
  S9: mom or a dad, especially a dad, it's really important
• 43:54
  S9: to when you're having a bad day or an off
• 43:56
  S9: day and you and you mess up, apologize to your kids.
• 43:58
  S9: They know you're not perfect. They know I'm not perfect,
• 44:00
  S9: but it's really important for them to hear that the
• 44:02
  S9: gospel is good news for us too. And the gospel
• 44:04
  S9: is real, not just transactional. And they need to see
• 44:07
  S9: that as well.
• 44:08
  S4: And, you know, one thing I'll add, and I'll allow
• 44:10
  S4: you to respond, I don't want to assume you have
• 44:11
  S4: this same position, but how important is it for not
• 44:15
  S4: just apologizing for maybe areas where we've missed it, but
• 44:19
  S4: at least acknowledge ways that churches have missed it? You know,
• 44:22
  S4: if we're honest, there are things that happen in the
• 44:24
  S4: church that I grew up in that I look back
• 44:26
  S4: and go, I don't know if all of that was
• 44:29
  S4: like entirely biblical. Should we just like, own and acknowledge that? Hey, yeah,
• 44:34
  S4: you felt like there was some hypocrisy there when you
• 44:37
  S4: saw that or you saw this happened. And although it
• 44:40
  S4: seemed okay at the time, maybe that wasn't handled in
• 44:43
  S4: the best possible way, would you agree that there's some
• 44:46
  S4: ownership that's okay to verbalize there too?
• 44:48
  S9: Yeah, for sure. And here's how I'd put it. The
• 44:50
  S9: way teens and students put it today is more like
• 44:52
  S9: church hurt and something like that. Yeah. And here's the thing.
• 44:55
  S9: People can and will let you down, but Jesus never will. Um,
• 44:59
  S9: the church is full of broken people because really, that's
• 45:02
  S9: who Jesus came for. The gospel is good news for everybody.
• 45:05
  S9: Sometimes people are like, well, the church is full of hypocrites. Well, yep,
• 45:08
  S9: join the club. None of us live up to everything
• 45:10
  S9: that we wish we would have. That's why grace is important.
• 45:14
  S9: But let your view of Christianity rise or fall on
• 45:17
  S9: who Jesus is and claims to be, and not necessarily
• 45:20
  S9: the faithfulness of his followers. Yeah, and that's important. Sometimes
• 45:23
  S9: we can. And if you apologize, hey, they shouldn't have
• 45:25
  S9: responded that way or that was out of line or
• 45:27
  S9: that was straight up evil and wrong, that we're not
• 45:30
  S9: saying Christianity is false. We're saying we're actually acknowledging one
• 45:33
  S9: true aspect of the Christian worldview. A grown up worldview
• 45:36
  S9: is that we live in a fallen, broken, rebellious world,
• 45:39
  S9: which sin and real consequences for real people exists. But
• 45:43
  S9: every worldview has to deal with that Buddhism, Hinduism, Islam,
• 45:47
  S9: I mean atheism. They all have to still deal with
• 45:49
  S9: the broken world. They just have different names for it
• 45:51
  S9: or deny it altogether. But we can say no, Jesus
• 45:54
  S9: came to redeem and fix that. So what do you
• 45:56
  S9: think about Jesus and keep the conversation there while recognizing
• 46:00
  S9: that we are going to let each other down? Sometimes,
• 46:02
  S9: or sometimes Christians are not going to act very christianly sometimes,
• 46:05
  S9: and we can appropriately call that out for what it is,
• 46:08
  S9: if it's sinful or if it was unwise or unhelpful.
• 46:11
  S9: We definitely want to say those things. We're not saying
• 46:13
  S9: Christianity is false by doing that, but we're also giving
• 46:15
  S9: them a reality to kind of step into that. No,
• 46:17
  S9: this is a real world faith that I can follow
• 46:19
  S9: Jesus for a lifetime.
• 46:20
  S4: With Doctor Jonathan Morrow, he mentioned some resources available on
• 46:24
  S4: on his website in addition to this book, which man
• 46:27
  S4: this would make a great gift for. Uh, if you've
• 46:30
  S4: got someone graduating from high school, but also that PDF
• 46:33
  S4: for parents as well, just text college will send that
• 46:36
  S4: to you. Just text college to 805 557898 from our
• 46:42
  S4: guest doctor Jonathan Morrow. Just text college to 805 557898.