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Are Iran and Israel In on It? | Jerm Warfare · UK Column Radio

0:30
Speaker 1: My name is Jim. This is germ warfare, the Battle
0:33
Speaker 1: of ideas. Okay, there we go, Vanessa Beatie, thank you
0:38
Speaker 1: for joining the Strangers.
0:41
Speaker 2: You're welcome. It's a little bit early, but we'll do
0:45
Speaker 2: our best.
0:45
Speaker 1: I think it's earlier for me than for you.
0:49
Speaker 2: It is, but you're only asking the questions we just discussed.
0:54
Speaker 1: I'm going to I'm going to turn my cameraph did
0:56
Speaker 1: you speak for the for the duration.
1:00
Speaker 2: The entire hour?
1:03
Speaker 1: But I'm actually I actually want to talk to you
1:06
Speaker 1: about something serious. I look, I'm I've seen an increase
1:17
Speaker 1: in this weird trope. There's a weird narrative, and so
1:21
Speaker 1: that that Iran or Lebanon or just about any any
1:29
Speaker 1: resistance force in in your side of the world can't
1:36
Speaker 1: possibly do it on on its own. They they are
1:39
Speaker 1: in on it. They're basically all buddies with with Israel
1:43
Speaker 1: and the US. Have you seen have you seen this,
1:45
Speaker 1: this this kind of engineered narrative.
1:52
Speaker 2: Yeah, of course I have. I mean, actually to a degree,
1:55
Speaker 2: I've been pushing back against it and I and I
1:58
Speaker 2: do actually just want to make the point it would
2:01
Speaker 2: be worthwhile actually speaking too. And I know that you
2:04
Speaker 2: do two Iranians to Palestinians, two Lebanese, to the actual
2:10
Speaker 2: people from the region. Because that is the failure of
2:14
Speaker 2: these narratives is that they're entirely based generally upon Western media,
2:22
Speaker 2: archives and documentation. It is very rare that I see
2:28
Speaker 2: any of these analysts or commentators actually reach out to
2:32
Speaker 2: people from the region to better understand the circumstances of
2:37
Speaker 2: certain aspects of their history. Right. I mean, if you
2:41
Speaker 2: look at the history of Hamas, even I'm not an
2:45
Speaker 2: expert on that because from its creation in Egypt, it's
2:49
Speaker 2: splintered into so many different directions, It formed alliances in
2:54
Speaker 2: so many different complexes and areas. This whole subject is
3:00
Speaker 2: so complex that it cannot be reduced down to one
3:03
Speaker 2: narrative of Israel Is funding Hamas or Iran is part
3:09
Speaker 2: of the global Satanic kabbal et cetera, et cetera. It's impossible.
3:14
Speaker 2: Iran is a country of ninety million people, right, its
3:18
Speaker 2: government is in opposition to the Islamic Revolution to a
3:22
Speaker 2: large degree, the reformist government that was elected after the
3:29
Speaker 2: death I think it was an assassination of President Raisi
3:33
Speaker 2: and Foreign Minister Abdulhayan, Right, So I actually had this
3:39
Speaker 2: conversation on a podcast last night, and I think the
3:43
Speaker 2: difficulty is is that people seem to love reducing narratives
3:49
Speaker 2: down to something, you know, to soundbites, to something that
3:53
Speaker 2: is very easy to digest, rather than the complex, nuanced
4:00
Speaker 2: research that people actually do put forward. And what happens
4:05
Speaker 2: is that you end up in teams, and this team
4:08
Speaker 2: that believes X is simply fighting with this team that
4:12
Speaker 2: believes why, and then that middle ground gets completely consumed
4:18
Speaker 2: by these competing narratives, and then there's very little oxygen
4:23
Speaker 2: left for people to have a genuinely open, rational, intelligent
4:29
Speaker 2: debate over it.
4:32
Speaker 1: Yeah, so it's intellectually lazy because what they're doing is
4:37
Speaker 1: looking for, as you say, a one liner. It's binary.
4:41
Speaker 1: It's a false dichotomy. It's either one or zero. And
4:45
Speaker 1: I think this is probably a result of human nature
4:50
Speaker 1: trying to find the fastest way from A to B.
4:55
Speaker 1: But the reality is that it's a lot more nuanced
4:59
Speaker 1: and a lot more comple.
5:03
Speaker 2: Yeah, it is. And I think social media has played
5:07
Speaker 2: a huge part in this in kind of dumbing down
5:10
Speaker 2: debate and the introduction of bot farms and cointel pro
5:16
Speaker 2: to actually push narratives or defend narratives or attack narratives
5:21
Speaker 2: and so on. Right, it creates this environment. I mean,
5:24
Speaker 2: I don't know about you, but I hate going on X.
5:27
Speaker 2: I literally go and post. I don't get involved because
5:31
Speaker 2: the chance of actually someone that genuinely wants to ask
5:37
Speaker 2: questions is so slim. And I do apologize to anyone
5:41
Speaker 2: that is genuinely asking questions because it makes you very
5:44
Speaker 2: kind of defensive. That environment makes you very defensive and
5:49
Speaker 2: very kind of reluctant to engage in any kind of
5:53
Speaker 2: what doesn't appear to be genuine debate.
5:58
Speaker 3: Right.
6:00
Speaker 2: And I you know another thing that I really wanted
6:03
Speaker 2: to say, because I've been thinking about it this morning
6:07
Speaker 2: before coffee, is I find it as someone that lived
6:13
Speaker 2: in Syria for ten years, that was in Gaza twenty
6:16
Speaker 2: twelve to twenty thirteen, twenty twelve during one of the
6:20
Speaker 2: Zonus digressions Syria, for working there for ten years, living
6:27
Speaker 2: there for five years, even during the last days now
6:30
Speaker 2: in Lebanon, and seeing the ongoing genocide of the Lebanese
6:34
Speaker 2: people in the south of Lebanon, Right, I find it
6:38
Speaker 2: incredibly insulting to hear these narratives. I mean, we've just
6:45
Speaker 2: living here the last few days have been nothing but
6:49
Speaker 2: the funeral of the Supreme Leader Ayatala Kamine in Iran
6:54
Speaker 2: and the power of emotion, the cohesion of that population
6:58
Speaker 2: behind the Islamic reverlution and even in a sense consuming
7:04
Speaker 2: the reformist government and forcing them to become more belligerent
7:10
Speaker 2: towards the US and Israel. That is effectively just murdered
7:16
Speaker 2: their supreme leader and the supreme leader of Shia Islam
7:20
Speaker 2: to some degree globally. Right, this is enormous, and I
7:24
Speaker 2: don't think it's it's as if someone assassinated the pope. Literally,
7:29
Speaker 2: it's it's as if China assassinated the pope. It's it's
7:36
Speaker 2: for people to understand the enormity of this. And even
7:40
Speaker 2: last night there was something like, I mean, Trump is
7:44
Speaker 2: claiming something like eighty strikes, but there were a huge
7:48
Speaker 2: number of martyrs among the Iranian forces.
7:52
Speaker 3: Right, But did you did you? Did you what Trump said?
7:58
Speaker 3: The Islamic Republic of ben.
8:02
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know what, I'm so kind of sick of
8:08
Speaker 2: Trump and his psychotic, malignant psychopathy. I mean, it's it's just,
8:16
Speaker 2: you know, in the midst of those funeral ceremonies and
8:21
Speaker 2: he's describing this country as a cancer, as scum. Is
8:26
Speaker 2: one of the most ancient civilizations in our world today,
8:30
Speaker 2: with an academic, artistic, scientific history that puts us to
8:36
Speaker 2: shame in the West, right, and he's coming out with
8:41
Speaker 2: these kind of statements. I find it. It's so disgusting,
8:45
Speaker 2: it's abhorrent, and so therefore, how I yeah, but how
8:51
Speaker 2: I perceive it is these and I'm sorry to say it, unresearched, reductionist,
9:00
Speaker 2: lazy narratives because people love to believe in a conspiracy theory,
9:05
Speaker 2: and it's always perceived through a Western lens.
9:09
Speaker 3: That is very important.
9:11
Speaker 1: Yeah, sorry I interrupted you, but that's right there, looking
9:15
Speaker 1: through these things through a Western lens.
9:19
Speaker 2: Yeah, utterly, there's no there's no attempt to understand the
9:25
Speaker 2: ideology and the culture of the Islamic Revolution in Iran
9:30
Speaker 2: or even regionally, the culture and the civilization, the history,
9:35
Speaker 2: the heritage, none, nothing, you know, or the centuries of
9:43
Speaker 2: oppression and interference by Western agencies and the global capitalist cabal.
9:51
Speaker 2: And when we when we line that up, I just
9:57
Speaker 2: look at it as serving the Zionis movement and serving imperialism,
10:03
Speaker 2: serving neocolonialism. It's not doing anything else because what happens
10:08
Speaker 2: when people read a narrative that, for example, Hamas has
10:12
Speaker 2: been funded by Israel, which is actually not true. Again,
10:19
Speaker 2: that's a reductionist view. It's based on a lot of
10:21
Speaker 2: opposition material within Israel against Netanyahu. By the way, opposition
10:28
Speaker 2: forces within Israel that we're trying to discredit Netanyahu. So
10:32
Speaker 2: they're happy to base their findings and their conclusions on
10:37
Speaker 2: effectively Zionist narratives, and then well, Western media narratives are
10:42
Speaker 2: equivalent to Zionist narratives as far as I'm concerned anyway,
10:48
Speaker 2: without trying to actually understand the history there is. As
10:54
Speaker 2: I've said before, since their creation, Hamas has undergone multiple remodelings,
10:59
Speaker 2: re brandings, splinter groups, splinter factions, and I will be
11:06
Speaker 2: the first person to say that Hamas had a very
11:08
Speaker 2: detrimental role in Syria from twenty eleven until twenty seventeen
11:14
Speaker 2: under the leadership of Khalid Mitchell. In twenty seventeen, Khalid
11:19
Speaker 2: Michell was sidelined by the Resistance ACXIS by basically through
11:24
Speaker 2: negotiations by Iran and the Lebanese resistance, and then Yachyosinoa
11:32
Speaker 2: came to the fore and various other members of the
11:36
Speaker 2: military wing and the former political wing that had never
11:40
Speaker 2: abandoned their allegiance or their alliance to the resistance axis,
11:44
Speaker 2: and all of this context is never included in these conclusions.
11:50
Speaker 2: That's my problem with it. I don't rule out the fact,
11:53
Speaker 2: and I've actually gone into it to some depth to
11:56
Speaker 2: make sure that they're not correct, But I don't see
12:00
Speaker 2: them during that level of research and documentation in order
12:04
Speaker 2: to substantiate a claim that effectively denies agency to the
12:08
Speaker 2: Palestinian resistance, and it distracts people from the cause. People
12:16
Speaker 2: actually back off when they think, oh, well, if Armas
12:20
Speaker 2: is in it altogether, then you know, what's the point.
12:24
Speaker 2: That's how people's minds often work on this basis.
12:30
Speaker 1: As I said earlier, I mean, to me, it's very
12:32
Speaker 1: intellectually lazy. If, for example, he runs leadership were you know,
12:40
Speaker 1: on the same side as Israel, right, that would have
12:44
Speaker 1: meant that, I mean, it's ridiculous to think about, but
12:46
Speaker 1: that would have meant that they would have had to
12:49
Speaker 1: he runs leadership, would have had to have willingly sacrificed
12:54
Speaker 1: thousands of its military assets right as part of the
12:58
Speaker 1: theater Vanessa. They would have actually have watched its economy
13:02
Speaker 1: tank because of sanctions. Oh yeah, we all in it,
13:05
Speaker 1: Please sanction us. They would have had to have allowed
13:10
Speaker 1: their top scientists to be hunted down because we know
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Speaker 1: that that that what does that operation called Lion something
13:18
Speaker 1: at Israel launched on on your run to to go
13:22
Speaker 1: after its nuclear facilities or nuclear research or whatever, and
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Speaker 1: all of this would would have to be a performance.
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Speaker 1: That's that's the insanity of that particular narrative. It absolutely
13:38
Speaker 1: undermines complexity.
13:41
Speaker 2: Well, it not only undermines complexity. Again, we come back
13:45
Speaker 2: to looking at everything through a Western lens, and not
13:47
Speaker 2: only through a Western lens, but through Western superiority. So
13:52
Speaker 2: in other words, part of this argument is that the
13:55
Speaker 2: Ayatola Homine was brought to power by the CIA, and
13:59
Speaker 2: that for the entire Islamic Revolution was just a CIA
14:03
Speaker 2: op because the Shah was getting too close to the
14:06
Speaker 2: Soviet Union and so therefore they wanted to get rid
14:10
Speaker 2: of him. But they don't look at the fact that
14:12
Speaker 2: the Shah was developing one of the strongest relationships really
14:16
Speaker 2: in the region with Israel. They were developing a nuclear
14:20
Speaker 2: program with Israel. Again, this isn't even talked about a
14:26
Speaker 2: missile program with Israel. Yes, there was the Soviet Union threat.
14:31
Speaker 2: But what I'm saying is all of this is looked
14:35
Speaker 2: at through the lends of Western superiority, and that in
14:39
Speaker 2: capability of someone like Ayatola Komena so actually deceive President
14:46
Speaker 2: Carter and the CIA. And that has actually been admitted
14:50
Speaker 2: by the way in a number of documents and articles. Yes,
14:54
Speaker 2: of course he was in touch with President Carter and
14:57
Speaker 2: the CIA. He needed some agree there green light for
15:02
Speaker 2: him to return to Tehran. But I'll read you something
15:06
Speaker 2: from a BBC Persua article and BBC presure is effectively Mossad. Right.
15:12
Speaker 2: So at the end of this they go through the
15:14
Speaker 2: whole history and basically they talk about how Homine played
15:19
Speaker 2: President Carter. He lulled him into a false sense of
15:22
Speaker 2: security that he would return and the US would maintain
15:25
Speaker 2: their interests in Iran, that he would maintain the military
15:31
Speaker 2: that was considered to be loyal to the Shah. That
15:34
Speaker 2: proved to not be correct either. So he pushed Carter
15:39
Speaker 2: and the CIA into a corner to an extent where
15:41
Speaker 2: they had to facilitate his return to Tehran because the
15:46
Speaker 2: greater bogeyman at that time was the Soviet Union, right,
15:50
Speaker 2: and they didn't want Iran to fall into the hands
15:52
Speaker 2: of the Soviet Union, so to some degree, Aye Toola
15:55
Speaker 2: Komene was seen as a better option. But at the
15:58
Speaker 2: end of the article, and I'd do recommend that people
16:01
Speaker 2: read it because it puts a different slant. It's the
16:04
Speaker 2: same information, but it puts a completely different slant on it,
16:07
Speaker 2: which people never talk about, so they actually say, Unlike Carter,
16:13
Speaker 2: Kromine pursued a consistent strategy and played his hand masterfully,
16:17
Speaker 2: guided by a clear vision of establishing an Islamic republic,
16:20
Speaker 2: the iotoler engaged America with empty promises, understood its intentions,
16:25
Speaker 2: and marked towards victory. And less than a year later, Homine,
16:30
Speaker 2: while holding the US JE DA Fair and dozens of
16:33
Speaker 2: other Americans during the Iranian hostage crisis, declared, America can't
16:37
Speaker 2: do a damn thing. Is that someone that's been put
16:41
Speaker 2: in by the CIA and President Carter, you know, And
16:47
Speaker 2: there are multiple other narratives that I've broken down in
16:51
Speaker 2: a number of podcasts and just talks on the subject.
16:57
Speaker 2: And what I'm trying to say is I'm not entirely
17:00
Speaker 2: ruling out the potential of their being contact between American
17:04
Speaker 2: intelligence and Aotol or Kromene. But it's this idea that
17:09
Speaker 2: there's no way on earth that Ayotol Komene could have
17:12
Speaker 2: known what he was doing. It's just that's just white
17:16
Speaker 2: supremacism in my opinion that it's it's not even because
17:21
Speaker 2: it's complete negligence towards We'll hold on a minute. There's
17:26
Speaker 2: six thousand year old civilization. Maybe they do actually understand
17:30
Speaker 2: the Americans and can can work a deal which suits
17:34
Speaker 2: them long term, which it did.
17:37
Speaker 1: It's the same thing that we get here on the
17:39
Speaker 1: African continent. We Africans are too stupid to do anything ourselves,
17:45
Speaker 1: so we always require the West, you know, to help us,
17:50
Speaker 1: or the East or whatever, and we don't really have
17:52
Speaker 1: a very good track record.
17:54
Speaker 3: That is true.
17:55
Speaker 1: But so what we also have been heavily, heavily colonized
18:02
Speaker 1: over the centuries, and it takes time to use this region. Yeah, yeah,
18:07
Speaker 1: it takes time to to to what's the word to counterbalance,
18:10
Speaker 1: But I mean going back to what you're talking about.
18:15
Speaker 1: Even the even the terminology used is quite Western, it's
18:20
Speaker 1: quite eurocentric. The term Middle East is yeah, it's based
18:26
Speaker 1: on Europe.
18:27
Speaker 3: It's it's it's it's the.
18:28
Speaker 1: Location of that region based on Europe. It's eurocentric. So
18:33
Speaker 1: the framework, the framework itself is psychological.
18:39
Speaker 2: Yeah, it is, and it's also it's also a kind
18:47
Speaker 2: of trying to think it's it's a prejudice against what
18:52
Speaker 2: the Islamic revolution represents, or even what Palestinian resistance represents,
18:58
Speaker 2: which is the Islamic it's the Islamic part of it.
19:03
Speaker 2: You know, if Iran was actually demonstrating, I don't know,
19:08
Speaker 2: a collectivist society without religion at its base, I reckon
19:14
Speaker 2: they would have more supporters. The fact that Iranian society
19:18
Speaker 2: is presenting a model of governance which everyone in the
19:22
Speaker 2: West should be envious of. You know, where you have
19:26
Speaker 2: free healthcare, you have free education, you have to qualify
19:32
Speaker 2: for it, but it's free. Where you have the level
19:35
Speaker 2: of societal cohesion that we've been seeing since certainly since
19:40
Speaker 2: the forty Day War, but even after the Twelve Day War, right,
19:47
Speaker 2: it's something and the power of the people because you
19:51
Speaker 2: do have a reformist kind of neoliberal government and negotiating team,
19:57
Speaker 2: but you can see the pressure that is being put
20:00
Speaker 2: on them by the people going out on the streets
20:04
Speaker 2: for more than one hundred days and now going out
20:06
Speaker 2: in their millions for the funeral of Ayatola Kamine, not
20:12
Speaker 2: only in Iran but also in Iraq, right, a community
20:16
Speaker 2: which has been targeted since the nineteen nineties through sanctions,
20:21
Speaker 2: through war, through bombing, colonialization. I mean, it's effectively occupied
20:25
Speaker 2: by the United States, and yet you're still seeing millions
20:28
Speaker 2: going out on the street in support. So it's I
20:36
Speaker 2: think if and that's kind of sad because if you
20:39
Speaker 2: were to remove the Islamic aspect from it, more people
20:44
Speaker 2: would be in sympathy. And that is because that Islamophobic
20:49
Speaker 2: narrative has been engineered and orchestrated, and I know you've
20:54
Speaker 2: had doctor David Miller on to talk about this by
20:57
Speaker 2: the Zionists themselves. They know what they're doing. They're brainwashing
21:01
Speaker 2: you into thinking that Islam is bad and is the
21:04
Speaker 2: enemy of Christianity and sword and the enemy of the worst.
21:08
Speaker 2: But what is the enemy of the worst Israel, the
21:12
Speaker 2: Zionist movement and the perversions of Islam that have been
21:16
Speaker 2: created by the West and by Israel and those Zionist
21:20
Speaker 2: Arab states on the Persian Gulf. Right, then by that
21:24
Speaker 2: I mean al kaedo ISAs all of those kind of
21:30
Speaker 2: anomalies within Islam.
21:34
Speaker 1: Yes, I was just thinking now how to word this,
21:38
Speaker 1: But it is true that when you when you speak
21:41
Speaker 1: to Muslims, they will look down on the West. But
21:48
Speaker 1: when I was in China they also did, so there's
21:50
Speaker 1: nothing to do with what they believe. It's not it's
21:52
Speaker 1: not about the religion. It's just simply about geopolitics.
22:00
Speaker 2: I would argue that Muslims, genuine Muslims, don't look down
22:05
Speaker 2: on the worst. In fact, I would say it's almost
22:07
Speaker 2: the opposite. They still look up to the worst, sadly,
22:12
Speaker 2: in my opinion, in many cases.
22:14
Speaker 3: Yes, I'm saying more of a joke though. No, no, no,
22:18
Speaker 3: I'm just saying it's more of a joke.
22:20
Speaker 1: It's not really a serious thing, because everybody knows that
22:22
Speaker 1: we all need one another.
22:25
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, look, there is a lot of I
22:32
Speaker 2: won't say ignorance, but there's a lot of misunderstanding about
22:35
Speaker 2: what Muslim countries are. And I'm not including We've had
22:40
Speaker 2: this discussion before. I'm not including the Zionist Arab states
22:43
Speaker 2: like u a e Qa, even Saudi Arabia, Cato and
22:47
Speaker 2: so on. Brett. If, for example, you were in Syria
22:54
Speaker 2: pre the fall of Damascus, it's a secular country, so well,
23:00
Speaker 2: it's Muslim majority. Every single sect and minority was given
23:05
Speaker 2: free reign. So Christmas was actually celebrated more to some
23:10
Speaker 2: degree more by the Muslims because Muslims were in majority,
23:13
Speaker 2: but they celebrated Christmas than by the Christians inside Syria
23:19
Speaker 2: very much the same, even though Labane ise a sectarian society,
23:22
Speaker 2: because the Maronite Christians have historically aligned themselves with Israel
23:27
Speaker 2: rather foolishly, and prior to that, with the French crusaders,
23:31
Speaker 2: which is where they try to portray their roots as
23:35
Speaker 2: coming from, which is a form of kind of snobbery
23:39
Speaker 2: and again supremacism. But even so, when you go into
23:46
Speaker 2: the southern Muslim communities, you won't find a warmer, more
23:52
Speaker 2: hospitable society than their. And when we talk about I
23:57
Speaker 2: mean we've been sold the narrative of Iran's oppression of
24:01
Speaker 2: women and Swan, which by the way, was also used
24:04
Speaker 2: to lead operations against Afghanistan. And I would argue that
24:08
Speaker 2: women now have far less rights than they did prior
24:11
Speaker 2: to US UK neocolonialist interference in Afghanistan. But if you
24:18
Speaker 2: look at Iran and if you listen to some of
24:20
Speaker 2: the women, and it's mostly women that are speaking out,
24:23
Speaker 2: by the way in the interviews coming up from the streets,
24:25
Speaker 2: both during the war and now during the funeral. Don't
24:29
Speaker 2: tell me that these ladies are oppressed. I've been to
24:34
Speaker 2: places in Iran, including Tehran, Sharaz Asfrahan. The women are
24:40
Speaker 2: some of the strongest I've ever met. The same here
24:42
Speaker 2: in Lubanon, the same in Syria, although as I said,
24:45
Speaker 2: Syria was much more of a secular society. But that
24:50
Speaker 2: strength also comes from defending themselves against neocolonialism for decades
24:56
Speaker 2: and being perceived as being or being e even dehumanized
25:02
Speaker 2: right through the process of propaganda, narratives and torn Because
25:07
Speaker 2: when the narratives are running oppression of women narratives, what
25:11
Speaker 2: do you think that actually does to the women that
25:14
Speaker 2: don't feel oppressed inside Iran? It's insane, It's it's actually
25:20
Speaker 2: it actually has a kind of reverse effect. And that's
25:23
Speaker 2: the whole point.
25:26
Speaker 1: Well, I mean, looking at America's only fans culture, I
25:29
Speaker 1: do wonder whether it's a good idea for those women
25:31
Speaker 1: to have rights.
25:36
Speaker 2: Well, you know, yeah, and I mean that's that's but
25:39
Speaker 2: that's another aspect of it, isn't it in Iran, there's
25:44
Speaker 2: no assisted dying bill, there's no transgender movements. Transgenderism does exist.
25:53
Speaker 2: I actually asked about it when I was there in
25:55
Speaker 2: twenty twenty two, and they said, yeah, you know, it exists,
25:59
Speaker 2: but there's a very lengthy process for people to go
26:02
Speaker 2: through in order to be you know, given permission celebration.
26:07
Speaker 3: They don't fly flags and all that stuff.
26:08
Speaker 2: No, it's not, it's but that's what I'm saying. There's
26:11
Speaker 2: no movement to support it, which is what is happening
26:16
Speaker 2: in the worst. I don't have anything against genuine transgenders.
26:19
Speaker 2: I do have something against the entire movement and weaponization
26:24
Speaker 2: of it, which is actually destroying women's rights. Right when
26:30
Speaker 2: you have a man that thinks he's a woman who
26:32
Speaker 2: can enter whatever they are trying. I don't even know
26:36
Speaker 2: cross gender toilets and harassed women or in the sporting
26:41
Speaker 2: environment because people always question me over this. But women
26:45
Speaker 2: are a threat from this. So therefore women's rights are
26:49
Speaker 2: being degraded in my opinion, by the movements, not not
26:52
Speaker 2: by the actual I have sympathy for genuine transgender yes,
26:57
Speaker 2: of course people, yes, But I don't have any sympathy
27:01
Speaker 2: for how it is being weaponized to achieve the aims
27:04
Speaker 2: of the establishment and the predator class. No, I don't,
27:07
Speaker 2: and that's the point everything gets weaponized. In the West.
27:11
Speaker 2: Assisted dying is effectively part of the eugenics agenda. It's
27:17
Speaker 2: part of transhumanism and soon, but you don't find that
27:21
Speaker 2: in these countries. It doesn't exist if we're talking about
27:25
Speaker 2: global capitalism. Iran and evra In Catherine austen Fitz has
27:29
Speaker 2: said this Iran is outside the global capitalist mafia because
27:37
Speaker 2: from nineteen eighty three they introduced usury free banking. The
27:42
Speaker 2: same here in Lebanon, by the way, the HESBLA banks
27:45
Speaker 2: or the Kassad banks are usury free, so people can
27:49
Speaker 2: take their gold, have the gold value, receive the loan,
27:54
Speaker 2: the gold remains there. It's a bit like because it's
27:56
Speaker 2: a bit like an old fashioned pawnshop. And then they
28:00
Speaker 2: don't pay any interest on that loan, and when they've
28:03
Speaker 2: paid it back, they go and get their goal back.
28:05
Speaker 2: It's it's that's I'm making it very simple, but just
28:08
Speaker 2: for people to understand how it actually works, great, And
28:15
Speaker 2: I mean we can come on to the COVID issue
28:17
Speaker 2: as well, because I find this quite interesting is how
28:24
Speaker 2: people have also weaponized that against Iran. It was the
28:27
Speaker 2: same thing in Syria. Look WHENVID when COVID kind of
28:32
Speaker 2: hit the headlines. Let's say, of course, initially Syria took
28:37
Speaker 2: some action, but it rapidly disintegrates, it like rapidly to
28:42
Speaker 2: the point where the president was like, this is ridiculous.
28:44
Speaker 2: It's it's having more negative effect on an already hemorrhaging economy.
28:51
Speaker 2: We'll stop the lockdown and so on. It really wasn't
28:55
Speaker 2: taken very seriously anyway. There were far more important things
28:58
Speaker 2: to worry about, like war, and in Iran, again, people
29:04
Speaker 2: have not done their research. At Alahamine was actually described
29:09
Speaker 2: by a number of media outlets as a super spreader
29:14
Speaker 2: because he believed genuinely that COVID was was a US bioweapon.
29:20
Speaker 2: He banned the use of US vaccines. And then there
29:28
Speaker 2: was an entire COVID fact sheet on Iran written by
29:33
Speaker 2: Mike Pompeo. And if I really recommend people go and
29:37
Speaker 2: read that because it effectively reads like a regime change operation.
29:41
Speaker 2: Iran is not following protocol, Iran is not taking COVID seriously.
29:46
Speaker 2: Iran is killing its people by not taking COVID seriously.
29:50
Speaker 2: And therefore there's a good reason for intervention. I'm paraphrasing
29:55
Speaker 2: because it's a sixteen from memory, it's a sixteen point
29:59
Speaker 2: factory basically demonizing Iran for its lack of response to COVID.
30:06
Speaker 1: But you mentioned earlier the Twelve Day War. That's what
30:08
Speaker 1: I was trying to get to. It was the it
30:10
Speaker 1: was Israel's Operation Rising Lion, and it was I think
30:13
Speaker 1: in twenty twenty five where they direct Lion.
30:17
Speaker 2: I get lost with all of these.
30:19
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean the diation they launched an attack directly
30:22
Speaker 1: on on Iran, and and and then of course you
30:29
Speaker 1: had the Twelve Day War as a as a consequence. Now,
30:35
Speaker 1: if you are in kohouts, this is a very very
30:42
Speaker 1: costly and expensive way of showing that.
30:52
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, again, I don't really know what to say.
30:55
Speaker 2: You know, like last night, again there were martyrs from
30:59
Speaker 2: the US bombing, and yet we're supposed to believe that
31:02
Speaker 2: Iranians are just going to sacrifice their own people, or
31:06
Speaker 2: the Iranian leadership and particularly the Islamic Revolution leadership, the
31:11
Speaker 2: ILGC and the Supreme leadership. Yes, of course, Look, it's
31:17
Speaker 2: kind of and this is another thing when people kind
31:19
Speaker 2: of talk about Iran. They talk about Iran as if
31:24
Speaker 2: Iran is some monolith, and it isn't a vast country
31:30
Speaker 2: comprising multiple sects and minorities and refugees population of ninety million.
31:42
Speaker 2: It is not going to be homogeneous. Of course it isn't.
31:46
Speaker 2: And of course there are elements within Iran, as there
31:49
Speaker 2: are within any supposedly free country even there were of
31:54
Speaker 2: course there were within Syria. Of course there are in
31:58
Speaker 2: Yemen right that are being impacted by Western coercion and incentivization,
32:07
Speaker 2: that are neoliberal in their thinking. But what I will
32:11
Speaker 2: say when I was there in twenty twenty two, so
32:14
Speaker 2: immediately after the Masseramini riots, which again was part of
32:19
Speaker 2: the Mossad operation, and Mossad has admitted that they formed
32:25
Speaker 2: a special operations group back at the end of twenty
32:29
Speaker 2: twenty one, so they were also running the massa Amini
32:32
Speaker 2: rights and they were running the Bazari riots in January
32:35
Speaker 2: of this year. We now know that as a fact.
32:39
Speaker 2: So for the last four years they've been running interference
32:43
Speaker 2: in Iran, and now by the way, they're running interference
32:46
Speaker 2: in Slovenia, in Hungary, in Greece and Cyprus. In European countries,
32:51
Speaker 2: so this is not anything that we should be particularly
32:55
Speaker 2: shocked at. Does that mean that Slovenia, in Cyprus and
32:59
Speaker 2: Greece and or all in it, Yes, they are now
33:02
Speaker 2: because the Israeli influence has actually imposed governments that are
33:06
Speaker 2: pro Israel, pro Zionist and pro global capitalism. Right, But
33:11
Speaker 2: in Iran you still have a situation where the Islamic
33:15
Speaker 2: Revolution is still true to its core ideology, it's core
33:20
Speaker 2: principles and ethics of protecting the oppressed in the region
33:23
Speaker 2: and globally. Whereas within the government you have, like President Passhkian,
33:31
Speaker 2: you have a neoliberal and that's very clear. You know,
33:35
Speaker 2: he doesn't in many of his statements that most people
33:39
Speaker 2: are just cringing because he's not representing the will of
33:44
Speaker 2: the people effectively. The will of the people are the
33:47
Speaker 2: statements that are coming from the people on the streets
33:49
Speaker 2: that we've been watching for the last week or so,
33:52
Speaker 2: and during the two the forty Day War and the
33:56
Speaker 2: Twelve Day War. I don't know if I answered the question,
34:00
Speaker 2: it might have gone off on a tangent.
34:01
Speaker 1: No, no, no, I was just trying to find information
34:07
Speaker 1: on Stuck's net. Do you remember that that was around
34:12
Speaker 1: two thousand and nine twenty ten.
34:15
Speaker 3: When Israel vague.
34:17
Speaker 1: Yeah, so Israel deployed something called Stuck's Net, which was
34:23
Speaker 1: a piece of malware software like a virus, effectively specifically
34:29
Speaker 1: engineered to physically destroy uranium and Richmond programs in Iran.
34:37
Speaker 1: All right, and it worked. Now, this was a cyber attack,
34:42
Speaker 1: and it's one of the world's first cyber attacks that
34:45
Speaker 1: we know of that actually had real world consequences. And
34:51
Speaker 1: you know, if you're in on it together, this is
34:54
Speaker 1: this is not going well for you. No.
34:58
Speaker 3: But the.
35:02
Speaker 2: Someone said to me the other day, and they're American,
35:07
Speaker 2: they basically said to me, look, I don't believe that
35:10
Speaker 2: any government is going to follow a policy which is
35:13
Speaker 2: to the detriment of the government and the country. But
35:18
Speaker 2: let's have a look at what Iran has done since
35:20
Speaker 2: nineteen seventy nine. It had basically the Iran Iraq War,
35:27
Speaker 2: because I think that was as a result of the
35:30
Speaker 2: American administration figuring out, oh no, actually we didn't have
35:34
Speaker 2: Idola Hominade under control, and now we have lost control
35:40
Speaker 2: of Iran, right, and so then they foisted the Iraq
35:45
Speaker 2: War on them. And this is after also having kind
35:48
Speaker 2: of completely destabilized Iraq in nineteen ninety one, so this
35:55
Speaker 2: is sorry, then later destabilizing Iraq in ninety nine one,
36:00
Speaker 2: which was leading towards the war against Syria, etc. So
36:05
Speaker 2: this is all part of the same operation to some degree.
36:11
Speaker 2: But Iran withstood disproportionate force from Iraq, backed also by
36:18
Speaker 2: the Soviet Union. By the way, I'm not leaving them
36:20
Speaker 2: out of the equation. I think the Soviet Union actually
36:24
Speaker 2: provided more weapons and hardware than the United States. And
36:28
Speaker 2: this because the Soviet Union has also always coveted particularly
36:32
Speaker 2: northern Iran and the Caspian Sea is a warmwater port.
36:36
Speaker 2: That historically has been the case. And I don't think
36:38
Speaker 2: it's actually very different now because Russia is very much
36:42
Speaker 2: aligned with Israel anyway. But historically Russia has had a
36:47
Speaker 2: role in the destabilization and annexation of areas in Iran,
36:53
Speaker 2: particularly alongside the British in the nineteen hundreds. I think,
37:00
Speaker 2: you know, I think, are you really I mean, look
37:06
Speaker 2: at all the countries that are a part of the
37:10
Speaker 2: global capitalist cabal, are they under sanctioned? Well no, I
37:16
Speaker 2: mean's military interference? Yeah, I know, but this is the point,
37:21
Speaker 2: you know, it's it doesn't make any sense to me.
37:25
Speaker 2: I look at Syria now that they've imposed al Qaeda, Well,
37:30
Speaker 2: how about women's rights. They're now being forced not only
37:33
Speaker 2: to veil, but actually where the booker one two? Now,
37:38
Speaker 2: of course you have all of the kind of financial
37:41
Speaker 2: vultures coming in, predators coming in, including Macron in the
37:45
Speaker 2: last two days, to introduce digital banking systems, to bring
37:49
Speaker 2: in development loans, IMF loans and so on, to enforced
37:53
Speaker 2: debt in slavery. That hasn't happened an Iran, I mean
37:58
Speaker 2: in the sense that it is in Iran flourishing. It's
38:02
Speaker 2: unbelievable what it has achieved, despite the sanctions, despite the isolation,
38:07
Speaker 2: despite the constant threat of war, and despite the fact
38:10
Speaker 2: that it's been supporting resistance actors and states in the
38:14
Speaker 2: region since nineteen seventy nine. It broke the blockade with
38:18
Speaker 2: Yemen in the last three days, which is extraordinary. No
38:23
Speaker 2: one in the West is being told about this, by
38:26
Speaker 2: the way, but they've flown planes into Snara and Yemen
38:30
Speaker 2: launched missiles to bring down the Saudi anti aircraft missiles. Right,
38:38
Speaker 2: so Iran has broken the blockade on Yemen. It's empowered
38:41
Speaker 2: Yemen to the point where Yemen is now saying, listen,
38:45
Speaker 2: we will have a unified Yemen. We don't want Saudi
38:48
Speaker 2: Arabian influence anymore inside Yemen. We will close the Babel
38:53
Speaker 2: Mandeb straight. We will invade Saudi Arabia if Syria is
39:00
Speaker 2: weaponized against Lebanon. Right, So what are you seeing. You're
39:05
Speaker 2: seeing a cohesion in the region against US interests, against
39:09
Speaker 2: Israeli interests, against neocolonialist interests that wouldn't come from an
39:15
Speaker 2: entity that is in on it.
39:20
Speaker 1: You mentioned the sanctions, and that's a big deal. I mean,
39:23
Speaker 1: I think I think inflation in your run hit around
39:27
Speaker 1: forty a year ago. That's quite high, and that's not
39:33
Speaker 1: something that you willingly do to your own country.
39:38
Speaker 2: Yeah, you say that, but I mean it was quite
39:40
Speaker 2: interesting when I went in twenty twenty two. And it's
39:43
Speaker 2: not a criticism of the Iranian people because they're living
39:46
Speaker 2: through whatever hardships they were living through economically, but I
39:53
Speaker 2: came in from Syria where we had, you know, two
39:57
Speaker 2: hours of electricity every six hours, where there was literally
40:01
Speaker 2: no fuel. People were bringing it in in you know,
40:04
Speaker 2: the mineral water five liter gallon containers from Lebanon and
40:10
Speaker 2: selling it on street corners, Like literally, we didn't have water,
40:17
Speaker 2: hot water because no electricity, We didn't have water, et cetera,
40:20
Speaker 2: et cetera. Right, the economy was absolutely rock bottom. And
40:25
Speaker 2: then I go to Iran and I go to interview
40:29
Speaker 2: people and some of the poorer suburbs of Tehran, some
40:32
Speaker 2: of the poorest suburbs. One the suburbs are unbelievably clean.
40:37
Speaker 2: This is kind of a shock to me coming from Syria, where,
40:40
Speaker 2: of course rubbish collection also was a major issue, and
40:43
Speaker 2: so rubbish was piled up on street corners and so on.
40:47
Speaker 2: That's number one. Number two, I entered the houses of
40:51
Speaker 2: people there. Everyone it was too hot. I mean this
40:54
Speaker 2: was January. It was freezing cold, but the houses were
40:58
Speaker 2: boiling hot. Because everyone has gus, everyone has electricity, everyone
41:03
Speaker 2: has subsidized food, everyone has water. So when people were
41:07
Speaker 2: interviewing me and kind of saying, oh, you know, what
41:10
Speaker 2: do you think about the economy in Iran, I'm just like, dude,
41:14
Speaker 2: you know, you're actually you're fine. You've got every amenity
41:18
Speaker 2: you can possibly want. Yeah, sure, you know, if you
41:22
Speaker 2: want to covert Western consumerism and capitalism, that's different. But actually,
41:32
Speaker 2: as basic necessities, the government is providing pretty much everything.
41:37
Speaker 2: I was seriously impressed, and the cost of fuel at
41:40
Speaker 2: the POMP was insane. I mean, it was sense to
41:44
Speaker 2: fill up a car with I think from memory, less
41:47
Speaker 2: than a dollar.
41:50
Speaker 1: The inflation thing, though, is something I can relate to
41:53
Speaker 1: because I grew up in aparteight and we had very
41:58
Speaker 1: high inflation. I'm not as high as for I think
42:00
Speaker 1: it was at its peak around twenty one percent, and
42:03
Speaker 1: interest rates were sometimes around twenty five percent, making it
42:08
Speaker 1: almost impossible to buy a home. And even then that
42:12
Speaker 1: was tough, but weirdly enough we could get by, which
42:17
Speaker 1: is kind of what you're alluding to. The with the Uranians.
42:20
Speaker 1: Look eventually, I think it. I think it's you. You
42:24
Speaker 1: You choke eventually with those sorts of numbers. But you
42:28
Speaker 1: can have you can buffer against it four quite a while.
42:33
Speaker 1: I mean Iran has clearly been doing that.
42:38
Speaker 2: I think the difference if you look at Syria and
42:40
Speaker 2: Iran is the government in Syria, because of course their
42:44
Speaker 2: resources were deliberately occupied by the United States and by
42:48
Speaker 2: proxies of the United States, so that was a huge issue.
42:54
Speaker 2: But we do and we shouldn't underestimate the US come
43:00
Speaker 2: bind campaign against Iran you know, if they do bomb
43:07
Speaker 2: water desalination facilities, if they do start bombing essential infrastructure,
43:14
Speaker 2: then there is less capability from the state to be
43:18
Speaker 2: able to provide for their people, that's for sure. But
43:24
Speaker 2: then again it's like, well, why would that be happening
43:27
Speaker 2: if Iran is in honor? That just doesn't make any
43:32
Speaker 2: sense to me. Yes, and I'm going to keep circling
43:35
Speaker 2: back to this. Are there elements within Iran that would
43:39
Speaker 2: potentially be collaborating with the West to regime change? Yeah?
43:44
Speaker 2: Of course. Were there elements inside Syria? Yes, of course.
43:48
Speaker 2: Were there elements inside Syria that were incentivized, even in
43:51
Speaker 2: later years, by the West and even by allies of
43:56
Speaker 2: Syria in order to basically weaken the government and overthrow
44:01
Speaker 2: it in the end? Yes, of course.
44:06
Speaker 3: Yeah.
44:06
Speaker 1: I mean, Vanessa, this this is the sort of David
44:10
Speaker 1: Kean way of looking at at everything. I like David,
44:16
Speaker 1: but the whole, the whole vector pointing towards you know,
44:22
Speaker 1: a group of people, and then one person and in
44:23
Speaker 1: a simulation right at the top. It's great for selling books,
44:28
Speaker 1: but I don't think it is a reflection of reality.
44:34
Speaker 1: What is obvious to me is that yes, there are
44:37
Speaker 1: obviously oligochs elites who are in cohdes. There are obviously
44:42
Speaker 1: are all sorts of games of chess being played. We
44:46
Speaker 1: know this, This is not even you know, conspiratorial. But
44:52
Speaker 1: at the same time there are competing individuals, competing groups,
44:58
Speaker 1: competing organizationations, competing governments, competing factions. Uh, this is the
45:04
Speaker 1: nature of of how we live. You know, you take
45:08
Speaker 1: your your suburb that you live in, and and and
45:11
Speaker 1: just look at the conflict that happens between just normal people. Now,
45:15
Speaker 1: that happens all the way to the top. So the
45:18
Speaker 1: idea that suddenly they're all good bodies having cocktails together
45:22
Speaker 1: is utterly absurd. It's monty pythonisk in. It's in its
45:29
Speaker 1: in its stupidity.
45:34
Speaker 2: You know, before I sort of by accident, got into
45:39
Speaker 2: activism and then journalism, I used to be in the
45:43
Speaker 2: corporate world. And and if you you know, you probably
45:47
Speaker 2: have some experience of that as well. But if you're
45:51
Speaker 2: working for a big conglomerate, it's insane. It's it's but
45:55
Speaker 2: it's just on a micro level. And the risks are
45:58
Speaker 2: much higher at the macro level, at the world global
46:02
Speaker 2: dominance level, right, and the sacrifices are much greater or
46:08
Speaker 2: not the sacrifices, but the sacrifice of obstacles is much greater.
46:16
Speaker 2: And I think it's just this is what I always say,
46:20
Speaker 2: is that as human beings, we simply haven't really evolved,
46:24
Speaker 2: because all that's happening now, we just have kind of
46:29
Speaker 2: the recycling of empires. So we go through one imperialist
46:35
Speaker 2: era and then we enter another one, and then you
46:37
Speaker 2: know whether it's next going to be China or it's
46:41
Speaker 2: going to be a combination of China and the US.
46:44
Speaker 2: I don't really include Russia in there because they're struggling
46:48
Speaker 2: now and if you look at their GDP, it's not
46:51
Speaker 2: great in comparison, not by any stretch of the imagination.
46:55
Speaker 2: Against China and the US. In my opinion, nothing really changes.
47:02
Speaker 2: We just enter another paradigm of vampire, do you know
47:07
Speaker 2: what I mean? And it's in a sense I look
47:16
Speaker 2: at that and I just think, well, okay, but shouldn't
47:18
Speaker 2: we all be looking at how we stop that cycle?
47:22
Speaker 2: And again, I was having this conversation last night with
47:28
Speaker 2: people who are inherently anti government, leaning towards anarchy. I
47:34
Speaker 2: don't think humanity is ready for anarchy.
47:37
Speaker 1: I don't know, but it's not it's I mean, it's
47:40
Speaker 1: it's more. Yeah, it's an ideological thought experiment. It's not
47:44
Speaker 1: real estate.
47:44
Speaker 2: Yeah, well not based on the world that we have
47:49
Speaker 2: at the moment. But I think that the best you
47:52
Speaker 2: can have. And this is how I kind of see
47:55
Speaker 2: the Iran model is that you have a system of guidance,
47:59
Speaker 2: you have system of ethics and principles that people discover
48:06
Speaker 2: that if they follow their life has a rhythm, their
48:09
Speaker 2: life has a meaning, their life has a structure to it.
48:14
Speaker 2: What do we see in the West. We see that
48:17
Speaker 2: structure broken down. We've seen the spiritual structure broken down.
48:22
Speaker 2: We've seen the familial structure broken down. We've seen the
48:26
Speaker 2: community structure broken down to a point where it's very
48:31
Speaker 2: easy to centrally govern and control. And that's when you
48:35
Speaker 2: enter a kind of totalitarian state paradigm, which we're heading towards,
48:39
Speaker 2: particularly in the UK, but in EU countries, in the
48:42
Speaker 2: United States and so on, because that entire structure has
48:47
Speaker 2: been disintegrated deliberately. But that structure is still intact in Iran,
48:53
Speaker 2: and it was still intact in Syria. It's still intact
48:57
Speaker 2: in the South, in Lubanon, it's still intact in Yemen. Now,
49:01
Speaker 2: if you don't want to put the label of Islam
49:03
Speaker 2: on that, that's also fine, because it's a collectivist structure,
49:09
Speaker 2: which to some degree, you know, I would be perfectly
49:13
Speaker 2: happy to live in where there are these guiding principles. Look,
49:19
Speaker 2: how many Western countries could you see the millions, the
49:23
Speaker 2: tens of millions of people on the streets in forty
49:26
Speaker 2: degrees heat anyone and a rock the last few days
49:32
Speaker 2: and not see some violence, not see some looting, not
49:36
Speaker 2: see some corruption, or you know what I mean, There's nothing.
49:41
Speaker 2: You just see people helping each other out, giving each
49:44
Speaker 2: other food, water, helping each other through the crowds and
49:48
Speaker 2: so on. You don't see any of the eruption that
49:52
Speaker 2: you would see in the West. In my opinion, I
49:55
Speaker 2: can't even imagine right now any head of state that
49:59
Speaker 2: would kind of of generate that that number of people
50:03
Speaker 2: on the streets, to be honest. But that's beside the point.
50:07
Speaker 1: And what's also funny about that they're in on it
50:10
Speaker 1: narrative is that you'll notice very conveniently that it's the
50:14
Speaker 1: Western countries that aren't the ones, you know, losing their
50:18
Speaker 1: own economies and important people at the top. It's again
50:24
Speaker 1: framed within the Eurocentric paradigm.
50:29
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, and I'll give you an example, like if
50:33
Speaker 2: you've been following the narrative about the Mossad operation Black Cube,
50:39
Speaker 2: and there's also Black Core that have effectively been running
50:44
Speaker 2: interference operations against governments in Slovenia and Hungary, Cyprus, Greece,
50:53
Speaker 2: Romania right across Europe. And Slovenia is actually put in
50:58
Speaker 2: a complaint and complaint and a request for action and
51:03
Speaker 2: investigation by the EU Commission and it's just full, it's
51:07
Speaker 2: just gone into you know, room one oh one because
51:10
Speaker 2: it's Israel. Now, if that were to be I don't know, Iran, Russia, China,
51:18
Speaker 2: how many sanctions by now would be imposed on those countries?
51:23
Speaker 2: How fast would the war be started against them for
51:26
Speaker 2: daring to interfere in European elections? I mean, it's it's
51:33
Speaker 2: the hypocrisy is kind of it's off the scale, and
51:37
Speaker 2: yet nobody is. And this is another thing with this
51:41
Speaker 2: idea that Iran's in on it, and so on and
51:43
Speaker 2: so forth. Iran is the number one obstacle to Zionist expansionism,
51:51
Speaker 2: and Zionist expansion is expansionism is something and I'm not
51:55
Speaker 2: talking about Israel, I'm talking about the entire Zionist movement
52:00
Speaker 2: and complex, which includes the US and the UK. Yeah,
52:04
Speaker 2: Pax Judaica. And by lumping it all in together, what
52:12
Speaker 2: are you doing. You're just entering a nihilistic universe which
52:16
Speaker 2: I'm not interested in. To be honest, I lived through Syria,
52:21
Speaker 2: which was one of the most kind of traumatic events
52:24
Speaker 2: of my life. I mean, up until the last hour,
52:27
Speaker 2: I thought something was going to happen the Syrian army.
52:30
Speaker 2: Would you know something would happen because for the fourteen
52:34
Speaker 2: years in Syria, I never had the belief other than
52:41
Speaker 2: Syria was going to succeed because the resistance had been
52:46
Speaker 2: so powerful there. It had, you know, the help, particularly
52:49
Speaker 2: of Iran, which was being regularly targeted by Israel inside Syria.
52:54
Speaker 2: And that's another thing. Why would Iran go to the
52:58
Speaker 2: help of Syria, or to the help of Yemen, or
53:01
Speaker 2: to the help of Lebanon. Why would Iran include Lebanon
53:05
Speaker 2: as the number one point on its MoU agenda, the
53:10
Speaker 2: end of aggression against every country in the region. Why
53:15
Speaker 2: would it do that because surely if it's in on it,
53:19
Speaker 2: it would just come to the table and say, okay,
53:21
Speaker 2: we'll agree to this and you give us that, and
53:24
Speaker 2: it would be a typical corporate deal. But they're putting
53:29
Speaker 2: the principle of the defense of the free peoples in
53:32
Speaker 2: this region as the number one point on the agreement,
53:37
Speaker 2: which is only going to bring greater aggression against them,
53:40
Speaker 2: greater punishment, greater collective punishment. Why would they do that.
53:47
Speaker 1: It's propaganda, and I wonder where it's coming from.
53:53
Speaker 3: Would you say Israel, would you say the West.
54:01
Speaker 2: Look, these kind of Mossad units, the unit eight, two
54:08
Speaker 2: hundred units like Black Cube, and there are multiple. It's
54:12
Speaker 2: an entire complex, right. We know, for example, Honduras Gate tapes.
54:17
Speaker 2: We know that Israel was involved in the release of Hernandez,
54:22
Speaker 2: the former genuine narco state warlord, and the bringing in
54:30
Speaker 2: of right wing governments in Latin America, the kidnap of Maduro,
54:37
Speaker 2: and so the running of narratives. I saw a conference
54:41
Speaker 2: the other day on AI with a bunch of Israelis
54:46
Speaker 2: and there was one individual I can't remember her name now,
54:51
Speaker 2: but she was basically saying, look, it's great actually that
54:54
Speaker 2: we're heading towards AI producing information because we know we
54:58
Speaker 2: can advocate of these companies and ensure that the information
55:02
Speaker 2: they're putting out is pro Israeli. So as you know,
55:09
Speaker 2: as we're getting pushed down this kind of streamlining of
55:12
Speaker 2: information route towards AI, towards then they have greater and
55:17
Speaker 2: greater control of the narratives beyond social media, beyond the media,
55:22
Speaker 2: which is already largely controlled by them, and so these narratives,
55:27
Speaker 2: As I said, the problem is that the analysts that
55:31
Speaker 2: are putting out this conclusion are basing it literally on
55:35
Speaker 2: Zionist and Western reports, documents, narratives, media and so on. Right,
55:42
Speaker 2: And this is my point. It's not that I'm saying
55:46
Speaker 2: there isn't a possibility of that narrative being correct, but
55:49
Speaker 2: I'm saying, you've got to widen your net. You have
55:54
Speaker 2: got to include the country that you're actually saying or
55:57
Speaker 2: the resistance actor that you're actually saying is compromised.
56:04
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's pretty important. You need to apply nuance.
56:08
Speaker 1: It's the thing that I say so often, it's not binary,
56:11
Speaker 1: it's not a zero sum game.
56:14
Speaker 3: You do have all of these.
56:16
Speaker 1: Maneuvers, these strategic games going on, but at the end
56:23
Speaker 1: of the day, Vanessa, it's demonstrably true that you've got
56:28
Speaker 1: competing interests happening yet. I mean, controlled opposition is a
56:31
Speaker 1: real thing, but not really at that level, not between countries.
56:37
Speaker 2: But they've tried the controlled opposition game, Jim, how many
56:41
Speaker 2: times you know, the massa Amenie riots, the riots in
56:48
Speaker 2: January of this year. They've tried everything. Go and read
56:52
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm sure people have read it, but which
56:54
Speaker 2: path to pressure and you'll understand exactly the strategy that
56:57
Speaker 2: they've used. Yeah, but it's failed. And you've only got
57:01
Speaker 2: a look at the last few days as this sid
57:03
Speaker 2: of the funeral processions to understand to what degree it's failed,
57:08
Speaker 2: where you actually have interviews with people who are saying,
57:11
Speaker 2: you know what, I went on the streets as part
57:14
Speaker 2: of the opposition, and I'm so sorry. I shouldn't have
57:17
Speaker 2: done it. I regret it.
57:20
Speaker 1: Who wrote who wrote that document? I forget now it's
57:23
Speaker 1: in two thousand and nine. Which path with the Brookings
57:27
Speaker 1: Brookings Institution, Yeah, and they're one of the institutions. Yeah,
57:31
Speaker 1: I think they're one of the most influential think tanks
57:34
Speaker 1: to Washington. And in fact, I think I think chapter
57:39
Speaker 1: four or chapter five it's titled leave it to bb Yeah.
57:43
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, and it's all about you know, what it's
57:48
Speaker 2: actually saying is, if we don't succeed in any of that,
57:50
Speaker 2: we'll just end up containing eron, which, of course, what
57:55
Speaker 2: does that mean, greater isolation, greater economic punishment, and sworn
58:02
Speaker 2: and destroying all of the resistance axis, which is known
58:05
Speaker 2: as the Ring of Fire because you know, basically ED
58:09
Speaker 2: encircles US positions from Yemen to Iraq, formerly to Syria,
58:16
Speaker 2: although there are still resistance actors within Syria itself, to Lubanon,
58:20
Speaker 2: to Palestine and even elements within Saudi Arabia for example.
58:26
Speaker 1: Okay, so time is against us, Vanessa, what's the moral
58:30
Speaker 1: of the story? You run an Israel or big bodies
58:33
Speaker 1: in their internet.
58:36
Speaker 2: The moral of the story, as I guessed, stop looking
58:42
Speaker 2: at things through a Western lens. Start trying to look
58:45
Speaker 2: at it through the lens of other civilizations, other cultures.
58:51
Speaker 2: And it's not difficult to do. There's literature out there,
58:55
Speaker 2: there are podcasts now that are platforming people from those regions.
58:59
Speaker 2: Those questions can be asked. I'm quite happy, and I'm
59:02
Speaker 2: sure you're quite happy to do kind of a an
59:05
Speaker 2: open mic session with someone from the region and people
59:08
Speaker 2: can actually come on board and ask those questions and
59:11
Speaker 2: get the answers. I mean, I've done it with a
59:14
Speaker 2: San Suffer from Iran who answered a lot of the
59:17
Speaker 2: questions that have been raised by people doing this kind
59:21
Speaker 2: of analysis. And I think, you know, don't buy into
59:25
Speaker 2: a conspiracy theory every single time. There are genuine resistance
59:30
Speaker 2: actors out there who have suffered and sacrificed tremendously dealing
59:37
Speaker 2: with the machinations of Western governments and imperialist governments for decades.
59:42
Speaker 3: Now, right, Vanessa, can I follow you?
59:47
Speaker 2: Go to my substack. That's the easiest one and the
59:51
Speaker 2: least sense it for the moment. Just Vanessa Billy. I'm
59:56
Speaker 2: always just Vanessa BILLI wherever I am, so I should
59:59
Speaker 2: be quite easy. Don't look at my Wikipedia because that's
1:00:02
Speaker 2: just a joke, but that will be the first in
1:00:03
Speaker 2: the search.
1:00:06
Speaker 1: Okay, Vanessa badie, thank you for joining your trenches.