Latest / The ROI Online Podcast / Mentor Lloyd Brown on What it Means to Be Refined By Failure: The ROI Online Podcast Ep. 125

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Mentor Lloyd Brown on What it Means to Be Refined By Failure: The ROI Online Podcast Ep. 125 · The ROI Online Podcast

• 0:03
  Lloyd Brown: What has been the impact on your family of breaking rules, when you don't have personal boundaries as a leader, and you break your own rules, it doesn't just impact the business. It impacts everybody that's involved in your life. And that to me, probably, you know, has the, the greatest impact, because if you can lead well at work really makes you a better leader at home. And if you can set those boundaries at work, and have clarity there, and you do that at home, and it just helps on both sides.
• 0:44
  Steve Brown: Hi, everybody.
• 0:44
  Steve Brown: Welcome to the ROI online podcast where we believe you, the courageous entrepreneurs of our day, are the invisible heroes of our economy. You not only improve our world with your ideas, your grit and your passion, but you make our world better. I'm Steve Brown. And this is a place where we have great conversations with winners just like you while we laugh and learn together.
• 1:17
  Steve Brown: Lloyd Brown, welcome to the ROI online podcast.
• 1:21
  Lloyd Brown: Thank you, Steve.
• 1:21
  Lloyd Brown: exciting to be here. Because I've been watching you do this almost from day one.
• 1:29
  Steve Brown: Yeah, so I'm, I'm kind of getting good at you hope that after 107 episode, you get the hang of things.
• 1:36
  Lloyd Brown: And what they say is repetition makes you unconsciously competent, right?
• 1:38
  Lloyd Brown: Yeah,
• 1:40
  Steve Brown: yeah. Well, I'm proud to have you, Lloyd, you're my, you're, you've been a client, you're a friend. You're a confidant. And now you're an author. And today we're going to talk about your book, refined by failure, breaking rules and getting burned. This is a tale a cautionary tale of a CEO, who grew a big company had a set of rules in place to set him up for success. But you need to read the book to learn what comes out of that. So here's the problem.
• 2:13
  Steve Brown: Why do you set rules to keep you out of trouble, but what happens if you break your own rules? The problem is, most people don't know how to handle failure, they think they do until it happens.
• 2:24
  Steve Brown: And then their confidence crumbles. And they feel like a complete failure themselves. But what's cool is this books helps you learn from your mistakes, and that you're not defined by your failures, you're refined by these failures. And so Lloyd, tell us a little bit about your professional journey. And then what in the world caused you to write a book outlining all your failures,
• 2:57
  Lloyd Brown: there's a lot of their their stage. So you know, I grew up with a dad that was a serial entrepreneur and owns his own company, and at an early age started teaching me about business. Starting with running vending machines, that his business and being responsible fill them up, and both a coke machine and a candy machine and then getting into lawn mowing business, you know, and, and then, you know, going, going through that part of life and getting that preparation, and, unfortunately, my dad died when I was 20 years old. And so then I'm kickstarted into life at at hyperspeed while I'm in college, and I get out and I work for a company that he founded for a number of years, and then went to run a large family operated construction business, and was a miserable failure at that business. And I learned a lot of things about not what I didn't want to do, if I ever had the opportunity to lead my own company. And lo and behold, I ended up starting and found co founding a company with two other partners that really took off and did something very special. And an 11 year timeframe.
• 4:18
  Steve Brown: Yeah, so this company you built, I got to witness it. And as you know, you were my client during this time, and we became friends but I got to witness you excel in a rough and tumble industry, the oil and gas services industry.
• 4:36
  Unknown: And that's
• 4:38
  Steve Brown: you did a big I mean you You fought a good fight for a long time and experienced a lot of success.
• 4:48
  Lloyd Brown: Absolutely in and near death experiences and all the things that you you do when you're an entrepreneur and when you're when you're leading a business and you go through dynamic growth cycles, and then you're in In an industry, that in and of itself is very volatile, you know, there's peaks and valleys and, and they, they, the peaks happen fast, and the valleys seem to happen even faster. And so there's a lot to be learned in that in that process. And the reason there's a lot to be learned is you end up failing a lot you make, you make a lot of decisions that don't work out. And, and most of the time, you're able to recover from those. But this last major event, and 2020 was one of those that I personally as a leader couldn't recover from.
• 5:42
  Steve Brown: Yeah, you know, I'm one of the things I admired. And I recognize when I met you and started seeing you and your company, you had a small company, I think about 25 employees or something, and you grew it to over 200. But, but I always felt that you had identified these 10 rules. And I thought, I really recognize how it was smart, and how it actually led your culture. And it helped you achieve a certain amount of success by building a team by sitting down and coming up with these rules. Where did that come from?
• 6:21
  Lloyd Brown: You know, I was a member of a Vistage group in Fort Worth, and we had a speaker and I really wish I could remember his name, I need to go back and research that. But he was talking about how do you how to help people in your organization, make decisions, as if you were there, but you're not. And he he said, You know, one of the really important things is to create a culture, that everybody understands the boundaries, everybody understands the guidelines for them to go make decisions. And he really talked about how that establishes trust within the organization. And to me, it resonated, that it's like building a superhighway, right, you have boundaries on each side. But when you're within those boundaries, you can go really fast. And that was the intention behind it. And really identify what the expectations are for how you treat each other as well. So that that's what we did. The management team, which most of us were shareholders in the company, we came together.
• 7:30
  Lloyd Brown: And we agreed on the 10 rules over a few months, and then implemented them and they really, they really ended up defining my life and so much so that, you know, those roles are really the foundation of writing this book.
• 7:50
  Steve Brown: Yeah. So then, you know, I'm, when I think about those rules, most businesses don't get around, maybe doing that, you know, imagine most small businesses, they just get an idea and they kind of try to figure out if it's gonna stick or not. And then they wake up maybe a couple of two or three years later, and and then they start to investigate. How do I impact my culture? How do I set up? How do I solve this problem of my employees? They seem to be kind of out of control or not understanding what I'm wanting to achieve? And I think it's a real key to success that if you can do this in the beginning, it's a big lever.
• 8:34
  Lloyd Brown: No, I agree with you. Absolutely. It really goes back to how do you establish a relationship that you trust each other. And those those rules or guidelines, whatever you want to call them within the individual organization? They're meant to just give clarity, right?
• 8:53
  Lloyd Brown: They're meant. So when somebody goes, Hey, I've got a choice A, I got a choice B, you can weigh those against, really those scales within your organization.
• 9:07
  Lloyd Brown: For your culture, and Mike a really good decision. No, we only had one rule that if you intentionally broke it, you were terminated. And that was our safety rule. With everything else. We wanted to give grace, because from failing, you learn and I'm finding out that I'm gonna have a PhD by the end of my life on learning from my failures.
• 9:34
  Steve Brown: So, so let's establish when you sit down and you start to go, so not everybody's gonna want to do the same 10 rules that you do, but those rules that you do decide they're coming from a place of your why.
• 9:49
  Lloyd Brown: Absolutely.
• 9:51
  Steve Brown: So tell us about your why and why these 10 specific rules and we'll we'll quickly let you list those out, but Let's start with your why why, where did these come from and they they impacted your 10 roles, or the the Why did
• 10:12
  Lloyd Brown: the the why really came down stave to I wanted to have a business to where we treated our customers, and our employees with mutual respect and trust, and in the oil and gas industry and my business was in the chemical side, historically has been known as a lot of snake oil salesmen. And employees also had been treated somewhat as a commodity, and where they could come and go, everybody's replaceable. And the companies that think like that, that just didn't, never resonated with me, and it's a reason why I started the business was to be able to make those decisions to help shape it. And really, you know, treat people with trust number one, and respect number two, and in that way, assuming that our products and services were the same, people choose to do business, and to work in our organization because of those values.
• 11:19
  Steve Brown: So when we first started working together, you know, the default expectation of an internet marketing company is that I need more business, I need more leads. But that wasn't what you need it, you had plenty of business, you didn't have enough employees to take care of your business. And you couldn't scale because of that. And yet, you're having to compete for these employees with big companies that had more of a weaponize way of recruiting.
• 11:47
  Lloyd Brown: Yeah, I've never thought of it, you know, as a weaponized way, but yeah, they, they really knew how to go find talent, retain talent, and then they deject everybody else. And, and if you had somebody really talented Boy, you know that we're going to come after him.
• 12:05
  Lloyd Brown: So glad to give people a reason to work for you, I think, you know, there's a lot to the statement, you know, treat people and train them. So they can leave, but treat them so well that they don't. And you know, Sir Richard Branson, he's the one I've missed, quoted him a little bit there. But, you know, he really impressed me when he said that, because you're trusting people that they're going to stay when you treat them well. And if you train them, they're going to be able to grow in your organization and continue to propel that organization forward. You got to have them both. And you just have to trust that doing the right thing is going to provide the right results.
• 12:51
  Steve Brown: Yeah, so I think your rules were your competitive advantage when the employees, the employees were evaluating whether they wanted to work for Company A or your company. And I think you were pinging something that was really important to where my valued, where's my life going to fit and be congruent with my family life?
• 13:13
  Lloyd Brown: Absolutely. And the funny thing is, a lot of folks talked about it being a family atmosphere.
• 13:24
  Lloyd Brown: And in reflection, I don't know that that's I know what they mean by it.
• 13:31
  Lloyd Brown: My experience, and my family and other families, most of us are pretty dysfunctional. And you don't want to have a organization that that's why but it's when you have the best of a feeling of a family. That's a high compliment, and, and we had that compliment a lot with an organization.
• 13:49
  Steve Brown: So tell us, tell us about your 10 rules.
• 13:52
  Lloyd Brown: So the 10 rules are rule number one. I'm going to go back to the old 10 rules. Rule number one was a safety role.
• 14:02
  Lloyd Brown: Because if you don't go home at night, nothing else matters.
• 14:05
  Lloyd Brown: Rule number two is the golden rule. Treat others as you want to be treated. Rule number three is the gift trust or trust rule.
• 14:13
  Lloyd Brown: Rule number four, is the half fun roll. You spend more time at work than you shouldn't.
• 14:17
  Lloyd Brown: anywhere else. You might as well have fun. Rule number five was the vigorous debate roll.
• 14:24
  Lloyd Brown: vigorous debate is encouraged, while not violating Rule number two. Rule number six the best rule we expect while you're at you're at work that's going to give your best every day rule number seven, Zig roll named after Zig Ziglar help others get what they want. Eventually you'll get what you want. Rule number eight is the commitment roll. Try is not a commitment.
• 14:50
  Lloyd Brown: Say yes or no. So we can know which way we need to go forward.
• 14:54
  Lloyd Brown: Roll number nine is the celebrate roll. Celebrate business and personal victories.
• 14:58
  Lloyd Brown: Rule number 10 is the learning roll, which happens to be chapter number one of my book.
• 15:07
  Steve Brown: Hey, I wanted to pause right here and tell you about a book that you need to get today. It's the funniest book on marketing. It's called the Golden toilet, stop flushing your marketing budget into your website and build a system that grows your business. And guess who wrote it? That's right, I wrote it. And I wrote it just for you. Because I want to help you get past the last hurdles of setting up your business and getting it squared away. I wrote it so that you can avoid time wasting time wasting money, wasting frustration, get the book on Audible, you can get it on Kindle, you can get it on Amazon, but get the book take advantage of the insights in there. And let me know what you think. And now back to this excellent episode. So here we are. And let's let's kind of set the stage on why you wrote this book. Right. So one, one of your stories in that really impacted me was here you were you were had, had fought this long fight, you had made a successful sale, and had kind of settled in and was going you were going to version two of the company, you're getting ready to scale even bigger. And you had a reason to celebrate. And you were at a car dealership, and you were picking up this, this dream car, and you get a phone call.
• 16:41
  Unknown: Tell us about that story.
• 16:44
  Lloyd Brown: So we had we had sold the business and December of 2018. And the original founding partners and investors were bought out and a new group of investors private equity investors were brought in. And the management team including myself, we all reinvested. And so after that 2019 was somewhat of a turbulent year for the company, and then going into 2020, it was March 27 of 2020.
• 17:13
  Lloyd Brown: And I got a phone call from the chairman of the board of the company. And he asked me if I had a minute and it's funny, I was sitting in a car dealership, waiting in the finance to sign the check and and leave for a new 2020 Corvette. So it was a it was really a time I was internally struggling, struggling that the business was crashing around us oil and gas.
• 17:42
  Lloyd Brown: Were on our way to a negative, you know, $40 a barrel for all, it was just a catastrophic time.
• 17:51
  Lloyd Brown: And I'm everybody's remembering I'm sure how that felt in 2020.
• 17:56
  Lloyd Brown: And, and he he called and he said, Hey, you know, we're looking at how we can help the business survive. And we think that we need to to lighten the company, and we're heavy in leadership. And we'd like for you to step down.
• 18:14
  Steve Brown: Like, wow, this was a company you started?
• 18:18
  Unknown: Yes.
• 18:20
  Steve Brown: How did you feel in that moment?
• 18:25
  Lloyd Brown: By in that exact moment, I was panicked. I'm mind racing a million miles an hour.
• 18:33
  Lloyd Brown: You know, I have an employment agreement, as part of the purchase and, and choosing to stay to lead the company. And so I'm thinking about, you know, I've got this agreement I've got all of these things running through my mind and most prevalent is is how am I going to have a conversation with my wife? Wow. You know, it's just a wave of emotions. And then you go into the faking it mode, as the guy comes in, says, Hey, we're ready to close the deal.
• 19:10
  Lloyd Brown: While
• 19:12
  Steve Brown: you think about what that drive home was supposed to feel like in your new car, and I can just imagine was that was the farthest thing from your mind as you were driving?
• 19:23
  Lloyd Brown: Oh, yeah, I did it.
• 19:23
  Lloyd Brown: I remember the whole drive every aspect of the drive and none of it was on how cool or awesome that car was. It was just is completely irrelevant. At that time.
• 19:44
  Steve Brown: So fast forward, you you decide I'm going to write a book. And most people will go and here's here's the road to success, and this is how you get there. And I can teach you but what is Lloyd brown do He writes a book and outlines all his rules, and then shows you where he broke them. What am I supposed to get out of this book?
• 20:13
  Lloyd Brown: I think the number one thing that if I could have an impact is that there's no shame and failure. That, that failure does not define you, unless you let it. And, you know, our society is really good about piling on. And you know, even your worst enemies, your own mind. And when you would have had encouraged me so many times to write a book about the 10 roles in the culture, as I started to write that it really became, you know, evident to me that I needed to write not about our success. But the failure because we learned so much more from that, and it really became a personal journey. That man, it was, it was the most awesome, blessed, hard journey of overtaking.
• 21:18
  Steve Brown: Yeah, when I encourage you to write this book, I was, you know, I was thinking of all the things that you could help someone that was being acquired, or someone that was bringing in a investment team or whatever could, all the traps that they were about to encounter, and how you can help them navigate it. But when you came out with was just totally different.
• 21:41
  Lloyd Brown: You know, what's funny? I think I did outline the traps. As I stepped in all of them. I don't know if I stepped on all of them. But I step in a lot of traps. Most of them were set by me, and I forgot they were there and stepped right in.
• 21:59
  Lloyd Brown: But yeah, maybe. Maybe we accomplish that. Anyway.
• 22:07
  Steve Brown: So we're listening to Lloyd brown are watching.
• 22:10
  Steve Brown: You're watching Les Brown on the ROI online podcast, we're talking about his book that just released yesterday, and three categories, number one bestseller, refined by failure, breaking rules and getting burned. So Lloyd, I always I hear these questions. Often people come to us, and they're, they're, you know, they're wanting to this investment to help them grow the value of their business. But oftentimes, we work on our messaging, and it impacts their leadership. So I wanted to ask you several questions here and just get your your off the cuff answer.
• 22:48
  Unknown: Okay, Dan, so
• 22:50
  Steve Brown: why is leadership important in life?
• 22:59
  Lloyd Brown: Well, you're either leading or you're following. I mean, it's just it's a, it's a, I've never really thought of it this way. But you're, you're following somebody, you're following a path? And a lot of people say, Hey, no, you're forging your own way. And I, I don't know that that's always correct. I think those paths have been taken. Sometimes they're harder than what others have gone through. And, and but leadership's important for a follower. To be able to trust that leader, and to be able to have clarity of where they're leading you to, are they leading you to a path of abundance and, and success and growth, or they lead you into a path that is stagnant and detrimental to your physical and mental health? I mean, leadership's extraordinarily important.
• 24:01
  Steve Brown: I think the intent of your 10 rules will impact the answer and this question here, but why is integrity important in leadership?
• 24:14
  Lloyd Brown: I think it all be integrity is the foundation of trust. You know, ask everybody what their definition of integrity is, and it goes all over the place, but really comes down to do you trust that person to do what they say and say what they do. I mean, that's really what it boils down to. So if you can't trust where you're going, there's no integrity in the organization. There's really there gets to be these little I don't know if you want to call them fiefdoms or little pods and and our cliques and it's just it's just unhealthy. When there's not clarity and boundaries on how you treat each other and how you do business.
• 25:08
  Unknown: So
• 25:10
  Steve Brown: causes of leadership failure, one of the top three,
• 25:19
  Lloyd Brown: great question stay on want to grab a drink of water while I'm contemplating that one, top three. arrogance, number one, and arrogance for me, I'm going to speak for me was being a know it all and thinking I knew at all and that I didn't need others advice and they became my way or the highway in many instances. So I'd be, I'd be right up, they're not applying your roles equally.
• 25:59
  Lloyd Brown: And for me that meant when I had people that have been in my relationships for a really long time, I would give them a pass on some of the ways that we treated people, for example. And that really created doubt, looking back at created doubt, and in my leadership and doubt in the trust, because, again, they weren't they didn't have integrity. So one of the greatest things you can do that I would not be sitting here without my friends that came in, and it moments in time within the business sacrifice themselves, the anenome amazing way. But at another point, not having those boundaries, or that accountability. And filling since they had done so much sacrificing that I gave them grace and gave them opportunities to treat others the way they didn't need to be treated. And it really it really, it was tough. So hiring friends and family. If you can avoid it, avoid it. That's That's it. Number three, Golay, Steve.
• 27:31
  Lloyd Brown: I would probably say not focusing on your profit. I mean, you got to be profitable. And so when you read the book, you'll find out that my 10 rolls are not the same 10 rolls that we just talked about.
• 27:56
  Steve Brown: Excellent. So that's what leads me on. So this last one, leadership failure examples. You have 10 of them in your book. And you've rearranged them. So what are the what are the, what's the order now?
• 28:16
  Lloyd Brown: Well, rule number one is today is give trust or trust. It's because it's the beginning of any foundation of a relationship. And before you can have any other boundaries or roles, you've got to step into a relationship by either giving trust, while really always giving trust and then earning that trust. Rule number two is the safety role. Again, because if you don't go home at night, nothing else matters. Rule number three is the golden rule treat others as you want to be treated. Rule number four is profit first means you can have fun. And really if you think about a profit first is putting people first. Rule number five is still the vigorous debate roll. And six is the best roll 708 is the commitment roll nine is the celebrate roll and 10 is learning roll.
• 29:14
  Steve Brown: So now that your your books written, folks are going to read it and they're going to look to you for some sort of input. What's the proper expectation of how you could help them think through their rules?
• 29:39
  Lloyd Brown: While it goes back to the first question you asked me which was why? And words main things big time and it's funny how as I've been blessed with the opportunity to mentor some folks right now. really helping them understand the clarity behind what they say and why they say it because many times We'll say something that is really tied to a feeling without really diving into the real meaning and purpose behind that.
• 30:09
  Lloyd Brown: And if we can't be completely clear about it, right, it creates an opportunity within the organization and even the leadership, to not have clarity, because we each defined something differently. So give us an example.
• 30:27
  Steve Brown: Maybe someone that, obviously, you didn't just come up with this, you've been working with folks for a while, give us an example of success.
• 30:46
  Lloyd Brown: And what context?
• 30:48
  Steve Brown: Well, you've sat down, and you've helped someone clarify their why and begin and what's been the outcome of that.
• 30:59
  Lloyd Brown: So I think, one fruit, cuz success is something that you, you work at every day, it's, it's a, it's kind of like perfection, you have moments that you get really, really good at something, but you're never going to be perfect, it's impossible to be perfect.
• 31:20
  Lloyd Brown: Success is very much it's, you can have success for a moment.
• 31:24
  Lloyd Brown: But a life of success is moments of having plans. And so where I really see companies becoming, and transitioning, and really that owner, entrepreneur, is when they have clarity, the speed that their organization starts moving. The alignment that comes in, I've got I've got a pair of clients, right now, they both are leading the organization. And in about four months, five months, they've gotten their y down, and they've really gotten clarity in the organization, and everything just starts clicking. It's, it's crazy, how fast they're moving, and propelling their business forward. And then it's, for me, it's satisfying to go while you guys are just growing in a way and they're having fun. It's I mean, and that's what a business is hard. But you ought to have more time of the day that you're enjoying it, then you're not. If it's drudgery, you might need to think about doing something else.
• 32:38
  Steve Brown: I think that this, this assume your organization has people that are committed, they have the best intent and interest in success. And imagine they're all heading to some point on a horizon somewhere.
• 32:49
  Steve Brown: And the biggest challenge for any leader is to take this this direction, and out of their head and clearly make it where everyone can see it. So all of a sudden the energy start to align and go to the same point. And I when I was reading your book, I was seeing that this could be very impactful for a lot of people. But the other thing I took away was most of us define ourselves by our failures, and we beat ourselves up for so long. And here you are going no you don't. You can take this and flip that. And I think it's something that most leaders need a little help to talk it through with someone. It's it's hard to let yourself off the hook sometimes.
• 33:43
  Unknown: And I think absolutely,
• 33:45
  Steve Brown: I think this is a very empowering aspect of your book. Thank you. So we're listening, or you're watching Lloyd, our conversation with Lloyd Brown, and he's an author now, his book is refined by failure, breaking rules and getting burned. It's a Amazon bestseller in three categories right out of the gate on the first day. sirloin. I always ask this questions like, what's one question that I didn't ask that you wish I would have?
• 34:25
  Lloyd Brown: I would say what has been the impact on your family of breaking rules?
• 34:38
  Steve Brown: So yeah, let's talk about that. That can that's a little sensitive.
• 34:44
  Unknown: Well,
• 34:47
  Lloyd Brown: it is and when you don't have personal boundary boundaries as a leader and you break your own rules, it doesn't just impact the business. It impacts everybody that's involved in Your life, and that to me probably, you know, has the greatest impact. Because if you can lead well at work, it really makes you a better leader at home. And if you can set those boundaries at work and have clarity there, and you do that at home, and it just helps on both sides. And I can say since the day that I was called, and actually really, the end of June, June 29, was really a turning point. For me, because my wife looked at me and told me, I'm done. I'm not doing this craziness anymore. And which led me to hire a coach from my mind.
• 35:51
  Lloyd Brown: guy named Dave Hollis or read his book, and he talked about, you know, we do a lot of things for our physical health. But we don't focus on our most, the strongest part of our body, which is our mind. And that, that's really, those two things are the ones that I had pushed you to ask me. So you did now.
• 36:14
  Steve Brown: Yeah, your book starts off with a big gut punch on that topic. And it's like, I think a lot of us all struggle with with that same experience in some way where we've neglected in this fight to be successful in this justification of all this is worth it or I gotta go focus on this and and yet we neglect the people we love the most.
• 36:40
  Unknown: To help. Absolutely.
• 36:43
  Steve Brown: So Lloyd, where's How can people reach out to you connect with you learn more about you get your book, tell us all of that?
• 36:51
  Lloyd Brown: Well, books available on my website. And that's also how you can reach out to me, which is refined by failure, calm. It's available on Amazon, and all in iBooks. And I think they'll be some other outlets that will be picking it up here pretty quick. So but we have the link on my website. And that's really one of the easiest ways to go. It'll take you right to the page on Amazon to be able to buy either the Kindle version, or the printed copy of the book.
• 37:27
  Steve Brown: most business owners write books on how to do it, right. Here's what you do.
• 37:31
  Steve Brown: Lloyd brown know, he's going to do it differently. But he's going to touch in deep, refined by failure, breaking rules and getting burned. Stephen, Mr.
• 37:44
  Steve Brown: cubbies even endorsed you. So congratulations, Lloyd.
• 37:50
  Lloyd Brown: Thank you. So thank you. Thank you. And again, thank you for being one of my coaches and encouragers. And the book wouldn't happen without that.
• 38:02
  Steve Brown: Yeah. Well, you're welcome mine. I'm proud. This is good stuff. Lloyd, you've been a great guest on ROI online podcast.
• 38:12
  Lloyd Brown: Thank you for having me, Steve. I really appreciate it. And that's a
• 38:16
  Steve Brown: wrap. Thanks for listening to another fun episode of the ROI online podcast. For more, be sure to check out the show notes of this episode. And feel free to connect with me on LinkedIn where we can chat and I can help direct you to the resources you're searching for.
• 38:32
  Steve Brown: To learn more about how you can grow your business better. Be sure to pick up your copy of my book, that golden toilet at surprise that golden toilet.com I'm Steve Brown, and we'll see you next week on another fun episode of the ROI online podcast.