Latest / Broken Record with Rick Rubin, Malcolm Gladwell, Bruce Headlam and Justin Richmond / John Frusciante Returns, Part 4

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John Frusciante Returns, Part 4 · Broken Record with Rick Rubin, Malcolm Gladwell, Bruce Headlam and Justin Richmond

• 0:15
  Speaker 1: Pushkin. Today we have part four of our John Freshante
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: Returns series. This is the latest installment of Rick Rubin's
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: ongoing series of in depth interviews with the Red Hot
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: Chili Peppers guitarist, and if this is the first interview
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: you're hearing, make sure to go back and check out
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: the first three parts and also John's appearance from earlier
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: in the year promoting Unlimited Love. Today we'll hear John
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: Fuschante played through some more of his guitar parts. Then
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: he'll explain how we came up with some of the
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: best guitar melodies and modern rock history. John also talks
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: about how playing along to classic heavy metal albums from
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: Black Sabbath and Van Halen, along with dancing all night
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: at Drum and Bass Clubs, helped shape his style on
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: the two thousand and two albums. By the Way, he
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: also explains how listening to Brandy Destiny's Child the Wound
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: tang Clan helped influence his playing on Stadium Arcadium. This
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: is broken record line of notes for the digital age.
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: I'm justin Mitchman. Here's part four of Rick Rubin with
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: John Fraschante from Shangola So over the course of touring
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: for Californication, did you feel like you came back guitar
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: wise to where you could play like you could before
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: in terms of your strength and skill. I did, But
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: when it came time to record, by the way, I
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: didn't want to go back to that kind of Jimmy
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: Hendricksy way of playing File Change. Yeah, like I wanted
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: to go even further with what I felt were the
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: real developments on Californication. I was really into sixties music
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: at the time. I was really into surf guitar style,
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: like I'd learned about certain things because I played a
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: bit that way on Californication, mainly being inspired by by
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: the guy from Bow Bah Wow and stuff. But I
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: guess Johnny had shown me the Ventures and stuff, and
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: then Jerry from Fugazi showed me the Shadows, which I
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: didn't know about, and Johnny wasn't super familiar with either,
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: and they were really good. It was just like an
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: English version of surf guitar music, and they were really
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: popular in England from you know all the Beatles stories
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: I hear, yeah, well, especially because they were Cliff Richard's
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: backing band and he was the biggest rock I didn't
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: know that. Yeah, he was the biggest English rock and
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: roll thing before the Beatles. So that was just Hank Marvin,
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: his guitar player sort of had his side thing was
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: Hank Marvin and the Shadows and they were huge, like
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: they were an instrumental band and they were like they
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: were one of the biggest things in England with the
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: kids before the Beatles. So I got really into learning
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: while we were touring for Californication. I got really into
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: learning how to play all the Shadows stuff and playing
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: along with the Ventures all the time, and I was
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: seeing the commonality between that surf guitar sense of melody
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: and synthpop sense of melody. To me, they have something
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: in common. And so for when when we started writing
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: for By the Way, I think I just I didn't
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: want to have any blues in my playing. Like if
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: Fleet Block brought in something that seemed bluesy to me,
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: even in a funk way, I didn't like it. Like
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: it wasn't so much I was trying to control flee
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: or anything. I just really didn't like, yeah, anything that
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: had that feeling. It was like just at that time
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: where I had landed really great blue song on the
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: new album by the way, right, yeah, carrying Me Home,
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah yeah. A working title was New Blues as you Remember,
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: but yeah, like you know, right after that on Stadium Arcadium,
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: I was really into blues and I had a new
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: take on it by that time. Like by that time,
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: I was playing along with Jimmy Hendricks a lot and
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: learn learning his improvised solos a lot, like in a
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: more detailed way than I'd ever learned them in my
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: whole life. I was listening to a lot of modern
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: R and B at the time, so I was listening
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: like Destiny's Child and Brandy, Brandy was my favorite, and
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  Speaker 1: her sense of rhythm and her sense of melody that blues,
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: the blues that's in that I felt like I want
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: to take that feeling and combine it with Jimmy Hendrix's
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: guitar playing style, like to have Brandy be my basic
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: reference rather than like you know, Elmore James or whatever
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  Speaker 1: the old things. You know. It made it feel fresh
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: to me, like and I was doing a lot of
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: what we were talking about last time, where you're you're
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: not playing straight across the bar, You're not you're not
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: on a gridge, you're not on a sixteenth note gridge,
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: you're kind of speeding up and slowing down and playing
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: because she was singing like that and really good, and
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: method Man was Woutang in general was rapping like that,
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  Speaker 1: especially on their first couple of records, and so like
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  Speaker 1: I was like obsessing on all that music and feeling
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: like I got to put this kind of rhythm in
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  Speaker 1: my solos, in my playing and stuff. So like there
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: were times where I was like, because of the Frank Zappa,
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: you know, education, like there's one song we believe on
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: that album stage and Marcadium, and like I'm for a
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: lot of the reverse guitar part. I'm playing quintuplets, I'm
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: playing five against four, but I'm doing it in this
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: way that I'm hearing on rap records because when they're
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: doing it, they just have five words and they're going
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: to land on the one on the next bar, sixth word,
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: yeah and so and so like as long as you land,
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: as long as you punctuate what you're doing on the one,
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: you can fit any any amount of notes in between.
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  Speaker 1: And that's what I was hearing in a lot of
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: this R and B and rap. So that's what sort
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: of got my excitement about incorporating blues into the band again,
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: that a new version of the blues, Yeah, a way
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: that it hadn't been played before. Yeah, So that started
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: with By the Way, where like and when By the
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: Way started, I had all these ideas for these certain
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: types of melodic things. And I was learning more about
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: chords than ever because I'm practicing piano for the first
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: time in my life out of songbooks. So and that
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: was affecting the way that I played guitar because I'm
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: seeing chords more clearly than I'd ever seen them before,
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: understanding the Beatles music better than I'd ever understood it before.
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: And Yeah, continuing to listen to the synthpop, also going
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: out to drum and bass clubs to dance every week.
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: So the song by the Way was the result of
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: having been a club the night before playing drum and
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: bass and sometimes jungle. Would going out dancing inspire the
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: way you played guitar, Yeah, exactly, Like how would that
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: work well the song at the end of that album
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: Venice Queen. Yeah, the way I'm just trying to play
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: get I mean, it's it's it's not like it's a
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: way that nobody ever played the guitar. I don't know
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: if I can do it justice right now. I'm not
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: super warmed up, but for the idea. But the song
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: has a whole intro it's slower, but then it has
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: a fast part that comes in and the rhythms I'm
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: doing on the guitar, if you listen to it, it
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: sounds like a jungle drummer, like improvising, Like it sounds
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: like the kind of stuff people were programming than like.
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: So it's particularly interesting about that, is the right hand,
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: I imagine it's right unusual, Yeah, the right hand I'm trying.
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: I'm I'm I'm basically there's more parts to it than
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: that where and see if I remember the chords where
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  Speaker 1: I'm going even mart So like the way I'm playing
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: there is definitely I'm trying to play the way I
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: hear the drums at the drum and Bass Club. Yeah,
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: Chad's kind of just going. He's not really doing a
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: lot of ghost snares that I can tell. But but
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: I'm trying to play all those all those kind of
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: rhythms that because it's the chords are I can say
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: it's an ordinary chord progression. It's cool. It's a cool
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  Speaker 1: ordinary chord progression, but the rhythm makes it sound like
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: very new, very different, right, and like it has a
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: who like energy. But you never hear beat Townsend playing
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  Speaker 1: a rhythm like that, right, Yeah, like that's that that
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: would be a good comparison. But yeah, not that precise rhythm.
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: It wouldn't be that. No, it sounds almost like a
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: programmed rhythm, right yeah. So so yeah, so so that
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: was a big influence on it. And what's cool about that?
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  Speaker 1: Like I never knew that, right, but it always sounded
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: interesting to me. I never knew why, right, But it's
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: like this doesn't sound like the who you know, there's
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: something else going on. I never stopped to analyze what
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: it was. Yeah, but hearing how it happened, it's fascinating. Yeah,
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: because I would go it was on Thursday nights. There
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: was this club, Concrete Jungle in Silver Lake, so I
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: would go there and dance all night. There was this
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: girl who used to go there with me, and yeah,
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: I'd just be dancing. So when I get to rehearsal, like,
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  Speaker 1: I'd want to put that kind of energy into the
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: into the band. A lot of the time that was
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: just the rhythms that were going through my head. And
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: but when we started the record, as you remember, I
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: had to there was another side to it, like like
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: I wanted to do like I was really into The
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: Damned at the time, and I wanted to do like
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: I wanted to do punk, like in a way that
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  Speaker 1: the band hadn't done it, you know, like I wanted
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: to do real punk, you know, like inspired by like
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: early English punk and stuff, and so I thought we
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: would do the My original concept was that we would
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: have like these sixties inspired melodic songs I was. I
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: was really into Discharge as well, I remember, and I
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: just that we would have like sort of straight punk,
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: not straight I don't know what you call it, but
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: just like real punk is opposed to punk inspired pop,
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: like I wanted to do like actual I was writing
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: songs that to me sounded like like actual punk. So
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: I thought the album would have this like you know,
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: start contrast between really pretty things and these punk things.
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: And at a certain point you said to me, the
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: punk things that you're bringing in, they're good, but it
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: sounds like I've it's I feel like I've heard it before.
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  Speaker 1: These melodic things that you're bringing in. I feel like
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  Speaker 1: I've never heard anything like it in my life. Yeah,
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: you know, so you definitely like guided me away from
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: from continuing in the pretty early on as I remember it.
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  Speaker 1: But we had made we had written a bunch of stuff,
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: like there was there was a certain amount of Yeah,
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: I really loved the Damned, and maybe it was just
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: like I feel like I've heard this before, but I
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: had that feeling before, you know, like I didn't really
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: get gun some roses because I felt like I really
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: experienced this. This doesn't feel new to me. But a
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: neat thing to me about that album is that kind
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: of what we were talking about about the chords or
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: this implied thing that's underneath, but what Flee and I
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: are playing over them is something that that's separate from that.
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  Speaker 1: That's how it was with musical styles for that album.
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: Like to me, there is a punk energy there in
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: the record despite that we never we're never going in
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: that sort of distorted you know, like obviously punk direction.
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  Speaker 1: And at the same time, another sort of underlying aspect
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: was that every time there was a day of rehearsal
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: that Flee and Anthony couldn't go for whatever reason, maybe
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: there was a game or one of them was busy
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: with something, so we were supposed to not rehearse that day.
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: Chad was always up for rehearsing anyways. So me and Chad,
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: from time to time throughout the writing of that record
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: would get together. I'd just say to him, let's play
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: the whole first Black Sabbath album, and me and him
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: would just go there. And all he needs to do
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: to learn how to play a record is listen to
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: it while he's driving in his car on the way.
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: You know, he can just play it that. It's the
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: fact that it's drums. There's only so many drums. He
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: all he has to do is listen to it to
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: be able to play it. Like for guitar, you have
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: to do a little more like work. So we would
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: play whole albums of Black Sabbath, Van Halen and Ozzy Osbourne.
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: We were doing Diver, Madman and Or at least we
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: were doing a bunch of the songs from that and
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: Blizzard of Oz, but it was just guitar and drums.
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: But we were doing these heavy metal rehearsals of Deep
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: Purple as well. We were doing whole We did the
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: whole album of Machine Head, whole album in rock like
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: so we were just pick an album and we'd show
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: up and we'd just play that whole album, not straight through,
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: like sometimes we'd have to stop so I could explain
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: that the arrangement, No, it does this part for this
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: long or whatever it is, because he hasn't focused on
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: it how I have. But like, but we'd get through
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: the whole album of all those things, and when I
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: hear that album, I hear that in the connection of
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: Chad and Mice playing like it's in there. It's not.
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: There's no there's no real heavy metal on the album,
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: but it's not an album by people who can't play
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: heavy metal, you know what I mean. Yeah, Like Chad
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: and I were really dialed into it at the time.
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: I always feel like it's cool to have things like that.
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: I feel like it seems like if you're good at
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: any aspect, even if it's not being demonstrated, it makes
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: what you're doing better. It has to, right, it has to,
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: and it has not only does it have to make
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: it better, but it it informs it in some way
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: that that can't be explained. Right. Yeah, No, totally. I
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: feel like it's it's magical to have things that you
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: can do that you're not throwing on the surface for
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: people to see. The way I play on that album,
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: it's it's a real synthpop based, a new wave based,
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: surf guitar based style. Yet at home I was playing
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: along with Van Halen and playing those solos like I
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: was probably never as good at playing Eddie van Halen
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: stuff as I was at the time of by the way,
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: and nothing, nothing like that. There's not a hint of
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: that in the way that I play. I feel like
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: it's in there still. There's a certain confidence between the
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: way that I'm playing those simple things that I'm playing
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: in a certain precision, in the accenting of things, and
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: in the rhythm playing. It's it's a lot of things
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: that I got from his style that just aren't the obvious,
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: you know, frontal parts of his style. So yeah, I
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: think I think it adds a magic to things when
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: there's something hidden. Yeah. What I don't remember is my
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: favorite song on that album, although I don't remember and
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: I haven't listened in a while, is that universally Speakings
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: on that album, isn't it. I like that one a lot, Yeah,
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: And that one has just a it doesn't sound like
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: any other chili pepper song, and it definitely sounds like
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: it's rooted in you know, maybe early sixties music more
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: than late fifties music. Yeah. I was just watching something
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: that made a comparison between two things that universally fits
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: into Oh okay, So they were talking about the first
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: song on Brianians. It's an album Here come the warm Jets.
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: It goes those you know, don't let it show, and
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: the drums are going and then waiting for my man. Uh,
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: it's the same rhythm basically when you put that. I
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: saw it on YouTube. Somebody had put those two things
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: next to each other and they said, look, the the
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: Ino song is obviously inspired by the Velvet Underground song,
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: and universally speaking, I don't know if I made the
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: connection the you know thing, but I was trying to
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: do something like Velvet Underground. I thought we should have
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: something that's just like a straight rhythm. All our songs
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: have these funky, kind of syncopated kind of rhythms to them,
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: like that would be cool if we had a song
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: that just had a real straight rhythm to it like that.
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: So I don't, you know, I don't remember specifically what song,
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: but it is the same type of rhythm as waiting
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: really interesting, So I don't I don't hear Velvet undergrounding
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: it at all, right, at all? Yeah, but yeah, for
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: in ours, it was a so that's partially like coming. Yeah,
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: I was definitely trying to do something that was a
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: Velvet Underground type groove what I saw as being their
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: type of groove. Yeah, and it's also the drumbeat if
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: I remember correctly, it's more like a motown. It's like
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: a I think you might have added a drum bot
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: might have, but it's definitely different than everything else we
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: ever did. It was. It's a really unique song, right,
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: and I think we might have obos on it too, Yeah, yeah, yeah,
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: there's really cool orchestra stuff. Yeah. That was inspired by
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: Sunny and Share. Right from my perspective, is just like,
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: oh there's a sound on Sunny and Share, So I
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: never heard on anything else, Like maybe we can get
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: that instrument. That's so cool because I remember I remember
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: specifically trying to do a velvet like like thinking it
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: should be a straight rhythm like the Velvet Underground. But
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: I also remember you being the one who suggested that
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: drum beat. Yeah. Yeah, if I would have known we
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: were going for Velvet Undergroud. I wouldn't suggest that that's
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: what's so cool about it as well. That's what I
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: was saying, is that the EUMO song has that drum
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: beat of universally speaking, wow, Waiting for the Man has
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: that drum beat wow. Yeah. So so all three of
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: those songs have that beat. Yeah. I have a feeling
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: everyone got it from Motown. Yeah, I guess. Yeah, you're right.
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: Even though everything comes from the Velvet Underground, everything else
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: comes from the Motown comes before that probably comes from Motown. Yeah,
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: you know, totally. And that's really what Louid wished he was,
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: was a soul singer. I think I remember Anthony sang
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: that song different than all the other songs too. Yeah,
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: he's sang in a lower in a lower key than
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: he normally sings, like like a bassy voice. Yeah. So cool. Yeah,
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: such an interesting record. I know, there's so many there's
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: so many surprises when I listen to that record, like
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: after having not heard it from like, WHOA, how the
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: fuck did I do that? I didn't know anything about synthesizers?
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: How did I do that? That's so cool. Yeah, we'll
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: be back with more from Rick and John. After the break,
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: we're back with more from Rick Rubin and John from Chante.
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: I think there's something really fun about putting on instruments
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: you don't know how to play. Yeah, do you know, Like,
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: like it's the same reason that the first version of
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: a new style of music is interesting. It's because the
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: person who's making it doesn't even really know what it
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: is yet. Yeah, you're in the process of figuring it out.
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: You kind of you can never beat that, No, it's
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: so excited. Yeah, Yeah, it's a good argument to always
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: like pick up a different instrument and just get sounds
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: out of it. Yeah, it's my understanding. David Bowie when
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: he record records, he'd have the person still trying to
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: figure this out what to play, and he'd stopped them
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: at the point where they were just about to figure
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: it out. That's when he'd stop him. Like he'd be like,
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: that's when he caught what he wanted to catch. He
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: doesn't want to right before they figured it out, Like,
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: he doesn't. He didn't want the sound of it once
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: they're confident with it. He wants it just as they're
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: as it's just becoming clear to them. Yeah, that's the
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: group that he wanted to hear, you know, so he'd
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: often stop people like before they felt I think they've
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: only done takes. Would often would play a song once
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: or maybe twice before, and no one else in the
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: room had ever heard the song before. Yeah, so like
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: you played along whatever sounded right and that would be it. Yeah.
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: But again, like aside from the Velvet Underground, like that
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: that group where that the car is generally doing for
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: a lot of that song, like where where you're going
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: hard soft The Ramones like they have that in their music,
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: like over and over. It's a lot of fast down strokes,
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: but a lot of the time where these chords coming from,
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: because these are really interesting chords though, you know, you
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: tell me about the chords that universe is. Yeah, you know,
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: I was just playing along with the Beatles a lot
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: and learning all their songs and feeling more free with
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: chord progressions, and I'd ever felt like previously the stuff
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: that I've done on like Blood Sugar and Californication, it
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: felt more like formulas that I knew that progression works.
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: It's in a lot of songs. This chord progression works.
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: It's in a lot of songs. You know what I
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: mean this was where by the way, I'm starting to
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: sort of create chord progressions from scratch sort of, there's
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: not a yeah, it's not a it's not a formally,
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: it's almost like I started seeing chords as harmonies rather
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: than chord progressions, per say, So I'm I'm seeing it
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: as a certain kind of harmonic movement, and I'm starting
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: to do interesting what's called modulations, where like when when
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: I'm doing this, you're basically like in an A major thing.
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: We're still in an A major thing, but when I
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: go that chord is unexpected, that's all of a sudden
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: it has a B minor feel to it. When I
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: go to that G chord, I haven't even gone to
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: the B minor chord, but all of the sudden, you
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: get a minor even though it's a major chord that
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: I've gone to, you get a minor feeling when it
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: goes to that Gee. I'm starting to figure out things
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: like that that doing these kind of I was starting
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: to see these patterns that they used in classical music
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: and stuff, but comprehending what the idea was. Not taking
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: somebody else's pattern, but seeing, oh I see I can
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: instead of thinking of it as chords, I can think
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: of it as just general harmonic movement. The first two
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: of the chords of the Bram Bram is um also
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: I never again, I never heard it in the song,
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: but hearing it just like that played slowly, it reminds
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: me of the chords and the led Zeppelin song. I
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: don't know the name of the song, Bran Branne. I
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: think he's in a different tuning in that song, so
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: I can't play it. But like I was just playing
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: along with a couple of Beatles songs that I would
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: put in this category, like like um okay and you're
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: you know that and your bird can say, like it
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: sounds like it's gonna be one of those you hear
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: the first two chords, it sounds like it's going it's
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: not the same two chords exactly, that idea of where
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: where where you feel it's moving down, sending it in
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: a form that we're expecting. Yeah, and then but then
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: that g to be minor changes it. So but yeah,
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: that that that led Zeppelin song. Oh. I remember seeing
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: a YouTube video where a guy is taking apart one
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: of your guitar parts and he's saying that you purposely
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: detuned one of not not not that you changed the tuning,
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: but you de tuned one string slightly. And that's the
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: only way to play the song. That anyone who plays
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: a song and plays it wrong because the secret is
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: de tuning. Is that possible? That true? It wasn't unconsciously,
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: I just was out of tune. Yeah, like like it's
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: scar tissue that that's about. My guitar tech told me
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: about that, like like, uh, it was. It was a
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: fascinating video, right, yeah. Like like I guess you're gonna
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: you're gonna sound a little I get that all the
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: time when I play along with old blues records. Yeah,
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: a lot of the time. Like electric blues players, you
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: think that think they're playing different sixties. No, you just
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: have to tune your guitar to it because each one
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: of their strings has tuned a little a little different,
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: like Albert King and stuff like that. When you're learning
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: a song, you gradually figure out, Okay, his string is here.
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: You just try to match the strings for it to
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: sound like it's not for it to not rub. Yeah yeah, yeah.
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: So in that case, I guess one of my strings
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: was a little out of tune and it sounded good.
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: So nobody ever said like you would have been said
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: if it hadn't sounded good, you would have been the
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: first one. Yeah, but like clearly like it sounded good
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: because you know, like on synthesizers, like on the d
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: X seven, you can do these micro tunings where you
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: can have like a different amount of notes to the octave.
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: You know, you can have you know whatever, nineteen notes
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: to the octave or something, and so you have you
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: have notes in between what the normal twelve notes that
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: we all use, and there's a lot of good expression
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: in there by using these notes there in between, if
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: they're exactly in between in a precise kind of way.
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: And so I guess I was out of tune in
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: a way that really worked, you know, because that doesn't
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: sound out of tune to me. But yeah, it doesn't
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: sound out a tune to me either. Interesting, And next
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: time I listened to the Scar tissue, I'll listen for that. Yeah.
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: I couldn't remember what song it was, but the the
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: guy really went in depth. It was good. It was
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: a good Uh. It's so interesting people who get into stuff,
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: who can look at it in a much deeper way
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: from the outside than you know you weren't aware of
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: you made it, and you weren't aware of it, you know. Yeah.
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: I wanted to point out that. A lot of the time,
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: like because as we're talking about these things where something
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: was the source of I remember it as being the
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: source of something. A lot of the time it was
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: usually because I'm playing along with so many different things
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: at the time. I'll see a few songs that have
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: all the same thing in it in some way. Maybe
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: it's in a different key, maybe it's you know, but
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: I'll see some theoretical sort of theme that a couple
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: of songs have in common, and I'll just be like, oh,
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: that's cool, those have that in common. I'm gonna write one, Yeah,
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: you know what I mean. It's a lot of the
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: time and I might remember it as one being one,
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: but a lot of the time it's more in three
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: different songs like oh, I wonder what Yeah, And a
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: lot of the time because I notice it, like that
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: thing you're talking about where you're going, Like I'm noticing,
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: I start thinking like I must be noticing it for
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: a reason. I must be supposed to write something like that. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: Because it's generally the way my brain works. Yeah, me too,
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: Like I feel like if you hear the same thing
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: three times, it's like, hmm, yeah, something somebody wants me
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: to notice. Yeah, exactly, exactly. Should we look at some
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: guitar parts and some songs from the new albums? Sure? Fun, Sure,
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: let's do newest album first. We'll work backwards, okay, hopefully.
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: The first one I noticed was on my little list
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: was Eddie Well Eddie just Fleet came in. Fleet Fleet
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: came in with the bass bassline and and uh, and
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: I just started playing that melody. The part I wrote
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: in that song is the bridge. It's still interesting to
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: talk about how you hear what Flee's playing and what
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: you choose to play. It's fascinating because I don't think
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: anyone else would play what you played, right, It's just yeah,
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: he came in with that, with that bass line, and
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: I came in with the melody that remember do you
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: remember what you remember? What the bass line does? I know,
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: I know what the tonality of it is, yeah, but
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: I don't know. And basin, but that's the bass also
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: sounds more like a guitar part than a bass line,
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: because I'm playing I'm making up a guitar part that's
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: the chord. I know what he's doing basically implies in
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: F seven A G six and like I don't know
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: what he's playing. IM stand. One time we did a
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: sound check where Flee played guitar and I played bass. Yeah,
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: and we played Chili Pepper's songs. Yeah, it was so funny.
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: I bet it was great. It were completely different songs.
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: We you know, we didn't know. We didn't know. No,
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: Like we tried to play each other's parts based on
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: our conception conceptions, and neither of us had any idea
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: what enjoying. It was really comical. It's kind of cool though,
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: you know. I for it's my understanding that in the
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: Police they all knew how to play all the parts.
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: They could have switched instruments and done a show that
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: maybe that's just a fake. I don't know if that's
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: a good or a bad thing. I thought it was
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: pretty neat, just that they're that inside the songs are
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: I don't know, just weave together in this way. That
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: they're simpler than our songs for sure. But but like
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: I thought that was cool that somebody would would know it.
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: But like I'm incapable of playing bass, like Fleas. Fleas
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: are capable of playing guitar like me, so it's we
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: have a sort of a vague idea of what the
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: other one's doing. You know, we're good at listening to
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: each other, but yeah, I can't play like each other. Yeah,
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: and I love the way you can complete each other's
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: thoughts in like an this example, Flee came in with
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: the bass line and what you played with it is
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: not again, I don't believe it would be what anyone
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: else would play, and that combination is what makes it
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: sound like the Chili Peppers, you know. Yeah, and the
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: same when you come in with something what he chooses
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: to do, it never seems like the regular thing. Yeah. Yeah,
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: So Eddie van Halen, we we just found out that
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: he died, I guess that morning or the night before
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: or something. And then that was our first rehearsal and
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: that was something Fleet happened to have written. So that
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: was what was on all. If you write it on
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: bass or did you write it on piano bass? And yeah,
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: again the verse I think I was. We're again doing
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: that kind of thing where where we're in harmony to
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: each other. If you heard just my guitar part, it
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: wouldn't sound like the song the song, right, but but
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: it sounds like I was kind of thinking of part
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: of so part of the orchestration of the song. Yeah, yeah,
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: And I guess for Gods you must have had a
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: certain amount of things like that, because because that first
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: part it reminds me of for Godsy just when they
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: would sometimes do these sort of soft sections. I don't
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: know that's what I was thinking of when I was
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: making the guitar part to that, but I guess I'm
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: just doing that same thing that Plea and I've done
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: a bunch, you know. Well, I feel like it's part
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: of It's like, in some ways, it's become thus sound
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: of the band, even though it's still something to it's
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: a jump off point for it to do a lot
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: of other things. But it's a specific thing that you
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: guys do that I don't hear anyone else do. Right
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: In the same way, like Depeche Mode has a sound
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: that could be part of the Chili Pepper sound is
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: the way that the bass notes and the guitar notes
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: harmonized together to create a chord that is implied but
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: nobody's playing it. Yeah. Yeah, so that's what we're doing there,
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: and we just needed a bridge. So I think there
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: was a face off for a bridge, and do you
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: remember what it was? No, I just I just it's
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: the bridge to the song. Just had that idea, I
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: don't remember what. We would just all start by doing
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: hits all together go yeah. So do you have any
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: idea of why that occurred to you coming out of
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: what it's coming out of. Yeah, it just seemed like
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: the song had such a nice flowy thing, So I thought,
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: what would what would be good for a bridge? I
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: was thinking of Black Sabbath, even though there's no distortion
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: or anything obviously, but the contrast. But to have the
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: whole band do those hits together and leave these big spaces.
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: I just thought that was like a Sabbathy kind of
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: thing to do, which is we're that. That That was what
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: I was thinking because because I really wasn't listening to
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: Sabbath while we were for some reason. That's like all
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: the records in the Californication, I was always listening to Sabbath,
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: like this album, these two albums, I wasn't listening to them,
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: just as I was playing along with sometimes the first
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: two AUSI albums. But like I can't think of what
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: song or there is that that does that. But but yeah,
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: I just thought, like, have something where the whole band
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: is punctuating this chord progression, doing them as stabs altogether,
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: and then for the second half of the bridge play
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: it as a groove instead of stabs. Cool. And it's
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: cool that it the idea of looking for contrast in
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: a song that the most interesting thing that you can
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: do in the middle of a song that needs another
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: part is not necessarily the thing that obviously goes with
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: what came before it, right, Yeah, yeah, to do something
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: different like and it's also as I listen into these
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: chords by themselves, like I knew that if Fleet was
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: playing the roots of those chords like like that these
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: chords would sound good. They're they're they sound pretty like
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: partial like it sounds strange to have that open string there,
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: but but with the bass it ties it all together,
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: you know, like I and I had I had a
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: feeling that it would you know, also probably sounds weird
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: on acoustic but um bella, So yeah, there's a there's
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: a song. Um well, basically Fleet came in with the
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: verse to Bella and course I could find this, but
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: um hm, so this this is a song by a
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: group called Black Heat in two three four, five seven
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: one two three four, five six seven one two three four,
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: five six seven the it's a really cool funk groove
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: and it's in seven four, which is like and Fleet
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: came in when and that's just something that I'm into
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: because I collect that kind of music, and like, I
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: really I thought that was, you know, a cool song.
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: But Fleet came in with a funk groove and he
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: didn't realize it was in seven four. I was gonna say,
• 36:37
  Speaker 1: if you didn't count it, I wouldn't have realized that
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: was in seven Yes, yeah, yeah, exactly, such a good yeah,
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: it's such a good groove. Yeah. And so Fleet came
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: in with something in seven four, and I immediately thought
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: of that song. I was like, oh, this is great,
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: Like we can do a funk song in seven and
• 36:51
  Speaker 1: so work that out with the with the drums. Like
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: I've made a lot of my electronic music in seven four,
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: and my friend Aaron has made who I make electronic
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: music with, has made a ton of music in seven four.
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: So it's real familiar to me at this point. Like,
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: aside from the being into aggressive rock when I was
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: growing up, Like in the last twelve years, I've spent
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: a lot of time in that time signature. So I
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: was showing I was showing flee, like we'll see. There's
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: there's two main ways that you can break this up.
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: It can be a bar of four and a bar
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: of three, but how I hear this group is that
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: it should be a bar of three and a bar
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: of four, like, uh, the drums like being like one.
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: I don't know if I can play it and say it,
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: but one two three, two three four one two three
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: one two three four three four so cool. Yeah, So
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: it's just it's just that's why I like, nothing's it's
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: weird about it because three sounds pretty natural to people.
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: Four sounds pretty natural to people. It's just the two
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: ones next to each other. They just happened to add
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: up to seven, you know. Yeah, so we had that
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: groove and then the chorus came from just doing a
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: faceoff and yeah, I just went in the other room.
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: This maybe one of the ones. They's somewhere like I
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: don't understand the underpinning musical underpinnings, Like I don't know
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: that I didn't know that it was seven four and
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: I know then when I was working with Anthony on
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: the vocals, there were some cases where it's like, for
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: the sake of the vocal, we would try to shorten something,
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: and when you try to do an edit and it's
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: not the way you think it is, it creates havoc.
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: But we didn't. We didn't know it going in because
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: it doesn't sound like it doesn't sound like a weird groove.
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: It sounds like very straightforward. Yeah, until you try editing
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: it based on oh, the vocal is going to continue
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: hanging and it pauses. Then we come into the chorus.
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: Can't do it, you know, like it just it it
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: goes crazy. Yeah, And it doesn't make sense because it
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: seems so normal right until you try changing it. Right.
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: So yeah, and that's the same way that that Black
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: Heat song is. Their chorus is in four four, like
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: the rest of their songs in four four. It's just
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: that verse groove that's in seven And that's the way
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: our song wound up being as well. So really, you know,
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: Fleet hadn't heard the Black Heat song. I just knew
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: it it just the second I heard him come in
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: with a funk thing in seven four. I just thought
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: of that song and yeah, so it might be kind
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: of hard to play him this guitar, But yeah, was
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: it obvious to you that the in the chorus there's
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: an a half and a behalf, that the behalf would
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: be the lower half instead of starting with the behalf
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: and men doing me vocal. No, in what you just played,
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: not just an intonations that great, but oh yeah, that's
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: the way I do it. It's like, is that what
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: you're talking about? I think so right. I'm just you know,
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: I think ever since, by the way, time, like when
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: I write chord progressions, I'm thinking of it as almost
• 41:06
  Speaker 1: as if it were voices in harmony. Like so it's
• 41:10
  Speaker 1: it's there's a melody a lot of the time in
• 41:13
  Speaker 1: there that's being implied, you know, like when I play
• 41:16
  Speaker 1: that solo at the end, Yeah, I'm just playing what
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: I hear is being the melody that's already implied in
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: the chord progression. It's just you're hearing it with other notes,
• 41:25
  Speaker 1: so it so you don't hear it the same way.
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: But one of the ways that that heavy metal, you know,
• 41:32
  Speaker 1: Eddie van Halen playing wound up influencing, by the way,
• 41:35
  Speaker 1: was because there's a lot of chords on there where
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: I'm doing really difficult stretches to do everything I'm trying
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: to do between the chord and the melody that's weaving
• 41:44
  Speaker 1: in and out of the chord, and so there's a
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: lot of stuff that's like challenging guitar. Wise, if somebody
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: who doesn't play guitar hurt it, they or even somebody
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: who does play guitar, you might not think of it
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: as something that sounds difficult to play, but it's actually
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: a really awkward stretch, which edievan Halen was known for.
• 42:01
  Speaker 1: But it sounds like he's doing a big stretch because
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: he's doing sort of fancy lead playing and stuff. But
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: so to me that that chord progression is just sort
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: of me hearing chords more like a group of melodies
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: as opposed to a chord progression. So like if you
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: broke it down, it's a pretty simple common chord progression.
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: But between the ways that I'm inverting the chords and
• 42:28
  Speaker 1: the fact that Flees playing notes in the bass that
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: aren't that wouldn't normally be the notes that the bass
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: would do on those chords, a person with a good
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: ear for chords like me wouldn't necessarily know what they're
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: hearing because inversions are the thing that sort of an inversion,
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: meaning you turn the chord around. The lowest note in
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: the name of the chord isn't the lowest note in
• 42:51
  Speaker 1: the chord anymore. Some other note is the lowest note.
• 42:54
  Speaker 1: So it throws your ear off because it's like it's
• 42:57
  Speaker 1: like sliding let's say half an octave. If you could
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: play a chord in one octave, or you could play
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: it in an octave up, you're playing it in between
• 43:04
  Speaker 1: those two in between exactly. So like and so consequently,
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: with that kind of thinking, you can do you can
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: play chords that are actually far apart, but play them
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: so they sound like they're right next to each other.
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: So like if I went that actual if you went
• 43:31
  Speaker 1: by the chord name and just played the roots in
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: the right way, that would be like that's with no inversion,
• 43:48
  Speaker 1: but doing an inversion right next to each other. Yeah,
• 43:54
  Speaker 1: they're right next to each other. So you play little
• 43:57
  Speaker 1: games with that between. You can often do things like
• 44:00
  Speaker 1: the base stays on one note, but the chord is
• 44:03
  Speaker 1: moving because those two chords happen to have a note
• 44:05
  Speaker 1: in common, and it works for the base to stay
• 44:07
  Speaker 1: on one note. Even though the chord you're changing, just
• 44:10
  Speaker 1: little like tricks like that. That's what I noticed. The
• 44:13
  Speaker 1: Beatles did that a lot when we were making by
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: the Way, and so I just started getting really into
• 44:17
  Speaker 1: like sort of tricking the ear of the listener by
• 44:22
  Speaker 1: being clever with inversions and stuff. Super cool. I can't
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: remember the working title, but there's song on the record
• 44:28
  Speaker 1: called Roulette. Do you remember what the working title was? Yeah? Yeah,
• 44:35
  Speaker 1: So Roulette was that one that started here in the
• 44:38
  Speaker 1: studio in the other room where me and Chad and
• 44:42
  Speaker 1: Flee were playing and Flee's just playing like a funk baseline,
• 44:46
  Speaker 1: like he's playing some kind of funk groove, and then
• 44:52
  Speaker 1: I was going, yeah, so this one came out of
• 45:12
  Speaker 1: a jam in the room. Yeah. So we were jamming
• 45:14
  Speaker 1: and Anthony came up to me and he was like,
• 45:16
  Speaker 1: what are those chords that you're doing, And I said,
• 45:19
  Speaker 1: just Genesis type chords because that chord sequence that I'm doing.
• 45:25
  Speaker 1: The reason I'm able to write something like that is
• 45:27
  Speaker 1: because I've done a thorough study of Tony Bank's keyboard
• 45:30
  Speaker 1: playing in Genesis, and I know his style pretty well.
• 45:35
  Speaker 1: And so anytime I want, if somebody's playing, if the
• 45:39
  Speaker 1: bass is just staying in one basic tonality. If the
• 45:43
  Speaker 1: bass is just playing in one mode one key, I
• 45:47
  Speaker 1: can improvise chords all over the place really fast, and
• 45:50
  Speaker 1: stuff that modulate and that most guitar players wouldn't play
• 45:54
  Speaker 1: because it really is a keyboard technique. It's a keyboard. Yeah,
• 45:57
  Speaker 1: it's it's the mind of somebody who knows classical music
• 45:59
  Speaker 1: really well and understands that like like most guitar players,
• 46:05
  Speaker 1: you would never think if the bass players playing because
• 46:08
  Speaker 1: that chord regression actually has a G major chord in it,
• 46:11
  Speaker 1: you just wouldn't think if the bass players centered on
• 46:14
  Speaker 1: F sharp, you just wouldn't think that it's one of
• 46:17
  Speaker 1: the chords that you could play. But if it's got
• 46:20
  Speaker 1: a flow to it and it resolves in the right way,
• 46:28
  Speaker 1: you can, you know. And that's what Tony Banks playing
• 46:30
  Speaker 1: has taught me that. You know. That's even cooler is
• 46:33
  Speaker 1: that it's classical knowledge through a keyboard player transposed into guitar. Yeah.
• 46:40
  Speaker 1: I understand classical music better from learning Tony Banks stuff
• 46:43
  Speaker 1: than I do from any others. So it's amazing. Yeah,
• 46:47
  Speaker 1: he makes those types of modulations so apparently simple sounding,
• 46:52
  Speaker 1: you know, And do you think he's doing it if
• 46:55
  Speaker 1: you're guessing that it's an intellectual thought or it's just
• 47:01
  Speaker 1: this sounds good, Like I just know how to play,
• 47:03
  Speaker 1: and this is what I would play. What do you
• 47:04
  Speaker 1: think it's like a computation. Well, he definitely developed the
• 47:09
  Speaker 1: style gradually. Like the very first Genesis singles, he's not
• 47:12
  Speaker 1: playing that way yet. He was really into Keith Emerson
• 47:16
  Speaker 1: from The Nice who was doing classical things the in
• 47:19
  Speaker 1: like sixty six, he was starting to incord sixty seven.
• 47:23
  Speaker 1: He was starting to incorporate like classical ideas into a
• 47:26
  Speaker 1: rock framework, and Tony Banks just wound up with his
• 47:29
  Speaker 1: own way of doing it. But they Genesis had like
• 47:33
  Speaker 1: for a while they're progressive band, but then they had
• 47:36
  Speaker 1: hits where he's still playing in that kind of style.
• 47:39
  Speaker 1: He just really figured out how to Of all the
• 47:42
  Speaker 1: progressive bands, Genesis I think made the best pop music
• 47:47
  Speaker 1: when they decided to go pop, you know, And he
• 47:50
  Speaker 1: just had a really good mind for figuring out how
• 47:53
  Speaker 1: to simplify things. They're very complicated, you know, or that
• 47:57
  Speaker 1: used to be complicated before he did what he did
• 47:59
  Speaker 1: to them, you know, like something like they had to
• 48:01
  Speaker 1: hit this song called Turn It On Again that goes,
• 48:10
  Speaker 1: he's changing keys, but the bass isn't changing keys. It's
• 48:13
  Speaker 1: so fucking cool and and uh yeah, it's just an
• 48:16
  Speaker 1: example when you that songs in an odd time signature,
• 48:19
  Speaker 1: the keyboards modulating the bass is not. This is a
• 48:23
  Speaker 1: huge hit. When I was a kid, when I was
• 48:24
  Speaker 1: like twelve years old, I heard it on the radio.
• 48:26
  Speaker 1: I was like, whoa, what is that feeling? You know,
• 48:29
  Speaker 1: I never heard that feeling in a song before. At
• 48:31
  Speaker 1: the same time, my dad was a classical pianist, so
• 48:33
  Speaker 1: like I had a reference point for it, you know.
• 48:37
  Speaker 1: But that music spoke to just everybody. You know. It's
• 48:41
  Speaker 1: interesting when the complex can be presented in a simple
• 48:45
  Speaker 1: form and compete with something simple. Yeah, do you know
• 48:50
  Speaker 1: what I mean? It's it's it's interesting. And I again,
• 48:54
  Speaker 1: I don't I wonder if the people who are making
• 48:56
  Speaker 1: this are trying to make something complex sounds simple, or
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: if they're just playing music the way they hear it. No,
• 49:03
  Speaker 1: because he was Janesis made an effort to simplify, like
• 49:07
  Speaker 1: because because when Peter Gabriel was in the group, and
• 49:10
  Speaker 1: for the first couple albums after Peter Gabriel left the group,
• 49:13
  Speaker 1: their music is intentionally complex. And the songs are long
• 49:16
  Speaker 1: and and there's no there's no verse chorus verse type things.
• 49:21
  Speaker 1: Very rarely is there. And they just made an effort
• 49:24
  Speaker 1: to simplify. But he retained a lot of these aspects
• 49:29
  Speaker 1: of the essence of his style and he just made
• 49:33
  Speaker 1: it work as pop music. But there was definitely a
• 49:36
  Speaker 1: clear it was definitely clear that he at that point
• 49:39
  Speaker 1: he made an effort to simplify. But even in the
• 49:41
  Speaker 1: progressive stuff, compared to Beethoven or something, it's it's simple.
• 49:46
  Speaker 1: And he probably doesn't I get the impression he doesn't
• 49:49
  Speaker 1: think of his knowledge of classical music as being particularly broad.
• 49:52
  Speaker 1: But I think, you know, compared to someone like me,
• 49:55
  Speaker 1: it is so. Yeah, all through that early Genesis and
• 50:00
  Speaker 1: I say early, I mean Peter Gabriel era Genesis stuff,
• 50:03
  Speaker 1: he's doing things in that same style as he does
• 50:06
  Speaker 1: on that Turned It On Again song. It's just but
• 50:09
  Speaker 1: more long winded. It's not not as repetitive. It goes further.
• 50:14
  Speaker 1: We'll be back with the rest of Rix conversation with
• 50:16
  Speaker 1: John for Shante after the break. We're back with the
• 50:21
  Speaker 1: rest of Rix Conversation with John for Shante. We'll just
• 50:24
  Speaker 1: do one more song and it's not it's not a
• 50:26
  Speaker 1: recent song, but it's so I always loved of yours.
• 50:30
  Speaker 1: I don't even know where it is that well, we
• 50:36
  Speaker 1: don't have to go over the chorus of that, but
• 50:37
  Speaker 1: that Roulette is Lett has that chorus, but show me,
• 50:41
  Speaker 1: show me um. That's another kind of modulation thing. So
• 51:18
  Speaker 1: like the chorus, both halves of it and differently, but
• 51:23
  Speaker 1: both feel like modulations. You think you're just doing a
• 51:27
  Speaker 1: real simple chord progression that you've heard a zillion times,
• 51:32
  Speaker 1: but you don't expect this chord to come in and
• 51:37
  Speaker 1: that takes it somewhere else. That also you've heard a
• 51:39
  Speaker 1: million times and then and then, but you don't expect
• 51:44
  Speaker 1: them to be together, you know, and then and then
• 51:48
  Speaker 1: this time it ends differently. So again it's because modulation
• 51:57
  Speaker 1: is just when I'm writing chord progressions, it's what's interesting
• 52:01
  Speaker 1: to me, and especially that you can do it in
• 52:03
  Speaker 1: a way that doesn't sound like you're trying to be fancy.
• 52:06
  Speaker 1: David Bowie used to do it all the time and
• 52:08
  Speaker 1: really in ways we're really simple, and so a lot
• 52:11
  Speaker 1: of the time when I write songs, that's what's going
• 52:13
  Speaker 1: to make me think that something's interesting. It adds a
• 52:18
  Speaker 1: dramatic layer to it. Right, that's really interesting. Reminds me
• 52:23
  Speaker 1: of like sixties instrumental music. Yeah, and at the same time,
• 52:28
  Speaker 1: like punk songs because they're all major chords a lot
• 52:32
  Speaker 1: of the time, they're often doing modulations within themselves just
• 52:36
  Speaker 1: because of which major chords they're sticking next to each other.
• 52:39
  Speaker 1: Like it's not like it's just a thing coming from
• 52:42
  Speaker 1: progressive rock, and people who understand classical music like like
• 52:46
  Speaker 1: like that has a modulation. You would expect the like that,
• 52:58
  Speaker 1: you would expect the G to be a natural G.
• 53:00
  Speaker 1: But because it goes that's a modulation right there. It's
• 53:06
  Speaker 1: that last chord is a little like unexpected just because
• 53:09
  Speaker 1: that's a remote song there. But I'm just showing how
• 53:12
  Speaker 1: like three simple punk chords still have have the modulation
• 53:19
  Speaker 1: and then you can do it in really simple ways. Yeah.
• 53:22
  Speaker 1: The other song I wanted to ask you about was
• 53:24
  Speaker 1: the death song. Oh my song, dying song. Yeah right,
• 53:29
  Speaker 1: it's so good. Uh yeah, again, it's because I'm listening
• 53:47
  Speaker 1: to the Beatles. I'll yeah that that I'm that I'm
• 53:51
  Speaker 1: seeing how to go take these these chords that were
• 53:57
  Speaker 1: strange that I might not have understood, how to find
• 54:00
  Speaker 1: a context for Before that, I was starting to like
• 54:04
  Speaker 1: see how to use them. They sound normal when you
• 54:06
  Speaker 1: hear the flow of them. But there was a time
• 54:09
  Speaker 1: when I would just be like, I don't know what
• 54:12
  Speaker 1: to do with that chord. You know, After a while
• 54:15
  Speaker 1: I understood, Oh, okay, if if you're in a key
• 54:18
  Speaker 1: the whole step lower than that and you're just playing
• 54:21
  Speaker 1: a minor kind of predictable thing, that chord can work,
• 54:25
  Speaker 1: and then augmented chord can be. Yeah. I don't know.
• 54:30
  Speaker 1: I just that's that's written at the same time, I
• 54:34
  Speaker 1: guess is By the Way. It was like a four
• 54:37
  Speaker 1: track recording I'd made at that time, and you tried
• 54:39
  Speaker 1: to get the Chili Peppers to do it, and I
• 54:42
  Speaker 1: would and I wouldn't do it. Yeah. Yeah, So we
• 54:45
  Speaker 1: were so Yeah, we were in the studio for By
• 54:48
  Speaker 1: the Way, and you were like, why don't we do
• 54:51
  Speaker 1: it in the band? And I told you, like, no,
• 54:54
  Speaker 1: I have to keep my solo music separate from the band. Yeah,
• 54:58
  Speaker 1: like like yeah, because it was like, you wrote this
• 55:01
  Speaker 1: beautiful song, you write beautiful songs for the band. I
• 55:04
  Speaker 1: don't understand. Yeah no, But I, for some reason, I
• 55:08
  Speaker 1: had a clear in my head that when I when
• 55:11
  Speaker 1: I rejoined that, Like, once I realized that I could
• 55:14
  Speaker 1: write songs again, I was like, I'm going to keep
• 55:17
  Speaker 1: my solo music separate, like stuff that I write for
• 55:21
  Speaker 1: the band, Like basically it was anything I wrote lyrics
• 55:24
  Speaker 1: to was me my music, I see. So if I
• 55:29
  Speaker 1: was inspired to write lyrics to something, I considered that
• 55:33
  Speaker 1: my music. And if the idea was basically just a
• 55:36
  Speaker 1: chord progression or just a melody or just a riff
• 55:39
  Speaker 1: or whatever, then that was for the band. And if
• 55:42
  Speaker 1: the band was writing a record, I generally wasn't writing lyrics,
• 55:47
  Speaker 1: Like lyrics were something I more did on tour, right,
• 55:50
  Speaker 1: like like because I wanted to make sure that the
• 55:53
  Speaker 1: band got my best stuff, you know, while we were
• 55:57
  Speaker 1: writing a record. So but that was written prior to
• 56:02
  Speaker 1: having written, by the way I guess, or I was
• 56:05
  Speaker 1: also curious to see what the band version would sound like,
• 56:07
  Speaker 1: which I never got to hear. Yeah, I mean I
• 56:09
  Speaker 1: would be. It was sung in a kind of a
• 56:11
  Speaker 1: high falsetto voice, so it didn't really seem like something
• 56:13
  Speaker 1: that would be natural for Anthony and you were saying,
• 56:15
  Speaker 1: like switching to a different key, But it wasn't just
• 56:18
  Speaker 1: just like how I told you there was those certain
• 56:20
  Speaker 1: bands that I didn't play along with their stuff that
• 56:24
  Speaker 1: wasn't so much that I thought it would be a
• 56:26
  Speaker 1: good idea, to be honest, I was superstitious about it,
• 56:29
  Speaker 1: like like it came to me that it would be
• 56:33
  Speaker 1: a good idea to have a couple of things that
• 56:35
  Speaker 1: that you never play along with, since you play along
• 56:37
  Speaker 1: with everything that you like, just just leave that breathing
• 56:41
  Speaker 1: room for And it just felt like something inside me
• 56:45
  Speaker 1: was telling me to do that completely. And it was
• 56:47
  Speaker 1: the same with my solo music. It was like, to
• 56:50
  Speaker 1: keep your head on straight. You should have this music
• 56:52
  Speaker 1: that you do that's not a part of this machine.
• 56:55
  Speaker 1: You know, that's not a part of this personality, these personalities,
• 56:59
  Speaker 1: that's not a part of their career, that's not a
• 57:01
  Speaker 1: part of you know that you should have a side
• 57:03
  Speaker 1: of your musicality that's separate from all that. And I
• 57:09
  Speaker 1: think like in retrospect, it turned out to be a
• 57:12
  Speaker 1: good thing because I had I had a writing path
• 57:16
  Speaker 1: that never got it never got like mushed up with
• 57:19
  Speaker 1: the band and the way like it's like some people
• 57:23
  Speaker 1: like when the when the songwriter sort of is the band, Yeah,
• 57:26
  Speaker 1: you never you never got lost in the band. Yeah, exactly.
• 57:30
  Speaker 1: I think there was a fear of that, and there
• 57:32
  Speaker 1: was the desire to always know that I had a
• 57:34
  Speaker 1: place that I could go that didn't have anything to
• 57:37
  Speaker 1: do with with all the things around being in a
• 57:40
  Speaker 1: popular band. It was like a it was like having
• 57:42
  Speaker 1: a having a little sacred temple or something, you know,
• 57:45
  Speaker 1: just and so like you could you could have never
• 57:48
  Speaker 1: talked like you tried, but like you would have never
• 57:50
  Speaker 1: no matter how much you tried, no matter how good
• 57:52
  Speaker 1: your arguments would have been, nothing would have overridden. No,
• 57:55
  Speaker 1: I'm glad, No, I'm glad that that's the case. Yeah,
• 57:58
  Speaker 1: because I've been able to you know, not everybody who's
• 58:00
  Speaker 1: in a band's able to do that. I've been able
• 58:02
  Speaker 1: to have a sort of a musical several musical lives
• 58:05
  Speaker 1: completely separate from the band, without that ever interfere with
• 58:10
  Speaker 1: what I do with the band. I'm always able to
• 58:12
  Speaker 1: when I am playing with the band, I'm completely like
• 58:16
  Speaker 1: immersed in it. And it feels like now there have
• 58:18
  Speaker 1: been cases where like my Cigarette is a song that
• 58:22
  Speaker 1: started as a solo piece of music. I think that's
• 58:27
  Speaker 1: actually flee song it is. Yeah, so how did that start?
• 58:32
  Speaker 1: You remember the story of that. Flee made a drum
• 58:34
  Speaker 1: beat on his phone and then he played bass to it,
• 58:37
  Speaker 1: and he played a SyncE. He played a synthesizer over it,
• 58:42
  Speaker 1: and so cool and so yeah. Because my plan was
• 58:46
  Speaker 1: to have no drum machines, no synthesizers, I just wanted
• 58:49
  Speaker 1: to play guitar. Fleet brought that in and when we
• 58:52
  Speaker 1: did in the studio, I programmed all the drum machines
• 58:56
  Speaker 1: and synths and stuff. But I'm basically doing just the
• 59:00
  Speaker 1: better sounding version of what fleas doing, kind of like
• 59:03
  Speaker 1: what we were saying about Depeche Modes earlier demos. It's
• 59:06
  Speaker 1: just like I just programmed it more skillfully, like like, uh,
• 59:11
  Speaker 1: made better sense sounds and stuff. But Flee fully played
• 59:14
  Speaker 1: it on my d X seven, and I was turning
• 59:17
  Speaker 1: the sliders because I had I had made a sound
• 59:19
  Speaker 1: that I could sort of modulate in subtle ways while
• 59:22
  Speaker 1: while he was playing, so we were actually like both
• 59:25
  Speaker 1: at the keyboard at the same time, him playing it
• 59:27
  Speaker 1: and removing the sliders. When he did the basic U,
• 59:31
  Speaker 1: what is it that's my son's favorite solo on the
• 59:33
  Speaker 1: album something like that. Yeah, and so so yeah, so
• 59:51
  Speaker 1: like it's such a funny song. It's such an unusual song. Yeah,
• 59:55
  Speaker 1: some of the sense overdubs were things I thought of,
• 59:57
  Speaker 1: But even some of the overdubs were things like Flee
• 59:59
  Speaker 1: was sitting here and he was like, what if you
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 1: just have a part that does straight rhythm just one note?
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 1: And then I converted that into a into a synth
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 1: part on the modular. But yeah, there were other drum
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 1: machine things like Drown or the drummer started. It used
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 1: to be called Drown, and that started with drum machines
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 1: with at my house with me doing it and the
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 1: slow Rodeo song, and the Slow Rodeo one also was
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 1: drum machine at my house. But my studio got torn
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 1: apart because I had to move out of my house
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 1: just a couple of months into the writing. So I
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 1: thought we would do a lot more of that, like
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 1: do like weird electronic even after we'd written songs. My
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 1: idea was that we would do a weird electronic version
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 1: of it just to see what happens. Yeah, and it
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 1: could even be a part of the song. Yeah, that
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 1: you never know what you could wind up doing with
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 1: make weird electronic demos. But we wound up. I wound
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 1: up being basically homeless for the whole time we were
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 1: making the records, so I didn't really have a studio.
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 1: So I think those are the only songs that Black
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 1: Summer had a demo with a breakbeat did. Yeah, well,
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 1: I don't think I ever heard that. Yeah, you heard
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 1: it when we were recording it. We listened to it
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 1: and you talked to Chat. We were talking. You talked
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 1: to Chat about how to get the drums groove to
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 1: be more like the break being cool. Yeah, no, no recollection.
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 1: It's so funny. It's like it literally happens in the
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 1: moment and then it's like it never happened. I think
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 1: we realized we were playing it too fast. I think
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 1: the demo made us realize that we had to get
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 1: into a funkier groove with it. And it's not a
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 1: funk song, but it needs to have a sort of
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 1: a funk groove at the core of it. And I
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 1: think also because we recorded like fifty songs, yeah, it
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 1: was all blur. Yeah. Yeah. For me, I have these
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 1: memories because I'd been living with them for longer than you. Like,
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 1: Black Summer was the first thing I wrote for the
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 1: but still, like fifty new songs, it's impossible to grasp. No,
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 1: I couldn't get my head around each other. It was
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 1: so weird because like normally making a record, even when
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 1: we made Stadium where we had, you know, maybe thirty
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 1: songs or something, I was able when I was playing
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 1: guitar solos and overdubs to go, Okay, this will be
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 1: the one that I do this little trick on. This
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 1: will be the one that I play in this style on.
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 1: You know, when when you have less songs, you can
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 1: cover all your basses and you know, like, okay, I've
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 1: I've done I've done this thing that I do on
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 1: this one, I've done that thing that I do on
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 1: this one. When with this album, there was no way
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 1: for me to know what I had done. I couldn't
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 1: tell if I'd even repeated myself, like I had to know.
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 1: It's list so much information. Yeah, it's so much information. Yeah.
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 1: I was really relieved when I realized I hadn't played
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 1: the same solo on two songs, you know, or done
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 1: the same riffs on two songs, because it's it's a
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 1: It was just too many to have your head around
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 1: it once. Yeah, it's amazing. I still can't believe Anthony
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 1: wrote all those words. I know, I know. It was
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 1: like forty eight tunes. Yeah, yeah, four or five normal albums. Yeah, yeah,
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 1: that was done so much work and the words are great.
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 1: He did so good. I kept acting him to stop,
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 1: and I kept wanting to stop the writing process earlier. Yea,
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 1: like thinking, I don't want to overwhelm and these are
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 1: good songs. I want them to I want them to
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 1: write lyrics to them. I don't want them to get overwhelmed.
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 1: But we just kept writing more and more. Yeah. Yeah,
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 1: I'm I'm a big proponent of keep writing because you
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 1: never know, like you never know when the best song
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 1: is going to come. So if you stop, it's like
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 1: they don't always come. You know, you've never written this
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 1: many songs before, right, so it's we know it doesn't
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 1: always happen because it's never happened before. Yeah, but if
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 1: they're coming, you gotta get them. Yeah. Whether you decide
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 1: to use them now or not, it's fine, but when
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 1: they're coming, you gotta get them. Yeah, you won't write
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 1: the same songs that at another time. It's true, you'll
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 1: never write those songs again. Yeah, it's something that's come
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 1: from electronic music for me though, Like I used to
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 1: think of it like you're talking about, you know, And
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 1: now I just I think of it like kind of
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 1: like what we started talking about, Like I can make
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 1: songs to order, you know, like when Anthony liked that
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 1: that one chord progression that we used for Roulette, just
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 1: went my room that night and wrote a chorus to it,
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 1: or you know, or or when when I was thinking,
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 1: I think we need another heavy song and I wrote
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 1: that nerve flip, like like I just felt like that
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 1: sludgy kind of feel. I was like thinking about what
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 1: we had and I was like, we don't have anything
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 1: like that. And I was listening to Flipper and stuff,
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 1: and just like like, uh, I just listened to Flipper
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 1: the other day on my beat twalk. It was so
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 1: much fun. Yeah, So electronic music, the fact that I
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 1: can sit down and just start making breakbeats or just
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 1: start programming a drum pattern, just start making synthesizers, sounds,
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 1: not parts necessarily. Pretty soon a song just comes. I
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 1: just sort of I think of the guitar the same way,
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 1: you know, Like like when I stopped writing, I honestly
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 1: thought I was doing the best because I stopped writing
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 1: songs like three times when we were writing these songs, remember,
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 1: and it was and it was just like I just
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 1: felt that I was doing the best thing for Anthony
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 1: to have the best to give, to give the songs
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 1: the best chance of Anthony writing over them. Yes, and
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 1: I had no idea that he would, you know, write
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 1: forty eight full sets. I thought it would beware. They
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 1: were one or two left, and he's just like, I
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 1: gotta get him, Like I don't, he would say, He's like,
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 1: I don't really have an idea, but but he was
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 1: so wanted to get everyone because he loved them. It
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 1: was so beautiful and it was so it was such
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 1: a beautiful like outpouring from him, and the lyrics were
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 1: so good, like like it wasn't like he'd done an
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 1: assignment or something. There was so much heart, so much
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 1: self Like That's something for me as a rock songwriter,
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 1: like I've never been able to put my heart out
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 1: there so much as Anthony does, to put myself out there,
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 1: to make myself vulnerable to that degree. Some people might disagree,
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 1: but that's that's that's where I feel like my shortcomings
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 1: are as a lyricist of rock music. It's just like
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 1: Anthony has this rare talent of being able you you're
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 1: really in his head when you're hearing him. He's really
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 1: putting himself out there for you and making himself vulnerable,
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 1: heavy or sad, sad. It's unbelievable and it's not it's real.
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 1: It's like he's feeling it and we get to hear it,
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 1: like we get to hear what's in his head. It's unbelievable. Yeah.
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 1: When I started doing the backing vocals and really reading
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 1: the lyrics as opposed to just hearing them more to
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 1: hear what he's doing more so than what he's saying. Yeah, yeah,
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 1: Like it was intense, Like, like, God, him in good
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 1: shape for the road though, you know, five months or whatever. Yeah, No,
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 1: he's been kicking ass on the road. But yet. Do
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 1: you know that Negative Trend record that's Will Shotter, this
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 1: band before Flipper. Yeah, Oh my god, that's great. Yeah,
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 1: it's a single. It's really good, and his bass is
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 1: so good in it, and the songs are so good,
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 1: really like top notch punk songs on that. I remember
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 1: the name Negative Trend and I remember that they were
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 1: like a popular band. Yeah, that's his band before Flipper. Yeah,
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 1: and and yeah, his vibe is like all over it
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 1: and they're really good songs. One of the songs was
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 1: covered by an LA artist Rico Rick. I think covered Meadhouse.
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 1: I got to hang out with him in San Francisco,
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 1: was Rick Rick? No, Yeah, no, I know. Remember you
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 1: used to tell me that I reminded you of him. No,
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 1: you don't remember that. No. When when you came over
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 1: to my house, you brought the Flipper record with you
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 1: and you gave it to me, and you said, um,
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 1: I used to have this friend that was in this band.
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 1: He died. When I'm with you, I feel like I'm
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 1: with him, I see. And that was all you said.
• 1:08:18
  Speaker 1: I And you wanted to see if I liked the record.
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 1: I put it on. I'd never heard it before, and
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 1: I love that. This is great. But I never knew
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 1: what you were talking about. And I've always wondered that
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 1: thing that you were seeing in me, that you related
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 1: to him. Was that gone by the time Californication? So
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 1: that was only me at that time, right? So yeah,
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 1: And it's just a spiritual thing, not a not It
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 1: wasn't was it something about how we looked was it
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 1: had nothing to do with physical right? Nothing physical right?
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 1: It was more of the energy, right, Yeah, And it
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 1: may have had to do with practices at the time. No, no,
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 1: because I wasn't doing hero I'd never done Heroin at
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 1: that time. Yeah, I don't know. It was just an
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 1: energetic feeling of just like like that there was something
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 1: else going on. Hard to explain, right, hard to explain. Yeah,
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 1: that should have was going on in my head, and
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 1: I'm sure other people experienced it, but it was really
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 1: just impossible to explain to people what's happening. Sometimes I
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 1: used to think, like, because you know you get goose
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 1: pimples like on your arm or sometimes on your head,
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 1: it was like they were in my brain. It was
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 1: really like strong reaction to everything, not just pictures. It
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 1: was all kinds of things. It was really intelligent voices.
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 1: It was those things like goose pimples in my brains.
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 1: It was just these explosions of like movement of shadow
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 1: and light and things like that that had this form
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 1: that not only did they inspire me when I was
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 1: making music, but like when I made music, that changed
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 1: the picture. So whatever I did change the movement of
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 1: the shadows, and you just had to sort of stay
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 1: a line with it. And it's one of the reasons
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 1: that I was able to do something then that I've
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 1: never really been able to do since, is play totally
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 1: fucked up and wrong and have it sound right. Yeah.
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 1: I could do it if I stayed in connection with
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 1: that stuff, those patterns in my brain. And ever since,
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 1: you know, I regained all kinds of talents and more.
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 1: But that was something I've never really been able to
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 1: be that like out yes and sound good, sound sound
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 1: like yeah, like I'm doing that on that first solo
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 1: record of mine that you released, And I've never been
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 1: able to play like that since. And he has that
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 1: in his bass playing, like even on that negative trend
• 1:10:44
  Speaker 1: stuff there, these are punk songs with real clear chord progressions.
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 1: He's playing wrong notes and they sound so right, Like,
• 1:10:52
  Speaker 1: they sound so perfect it would ruin the song if
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 1: it didn't have them. Yeah, I just sometimes people have
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 1: some tripped out way. Yeah, it's a different connection. Still,
• 1:11:05
  Speaker 1: you're you're showing me examples today on the guitar where
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 1: it seems like it shouldn't work right, you know, it's
• 1:11:11
  Speaker 1: still it doesn't make sense. Yet in the context of
• 1:11:14
  Speaker 1: the song, it sounds beautiful. Yeah. Yeah, I looked for
• 1:11:17
  Speaker 1: stuff like that, but yeah, it's done with a much
• 1:11:20
  Speaker 1: more organizational part of my brain than what that was.
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 1: That was just like whoa, what's happening in my head? Okay,
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 1: and you think it's not luck, it's something else. Oh
• 1:11:31
  Speaker 1: back then, Yeah, Luck is connected to whatever that was.
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 1: It was happening part of it, but it's not the
• 1:11:38
  Speaker 1: whole story. I'm saying. Whatever the power was that was
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 1: putting that made it possible for my head to be
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 1: that way that it was then has something to do
• 1:11:46
  Speaker 1: with luck as well. It's like it controls the universe
• 1:11:49
  Speaker 1: or something. Because I stayed connected to that thing all
• 1:11:53
  Speaker 1: through the years of being on drugs. And there was
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 1: one morning I woke up and it had always told
• 1:11:59
  Speaker 1: me I was safe, that I could do anything and
• 1:12:01
  Speaker 1: I'm not going to die. And I tested it. I
• 1:12:04
  Speaker 1: came very close to dying many times, always got through it,
• 1:12:07
  Speaker 1: got close to being arrested many times, never had a
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 1: fear of it, and never got arrested. There was one
• 1:12:14
  Speaker 1: morning I woke up and the voice said, your luck's
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 1: run out. If you go out and buy drugs today,
• 1:12:19
  Speaker 1: you're going to get arrested. And I got arrested that day. Wow, yeah,
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 1: Like so what you know to be able to do
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 1: something unintentional and random and have it just work out
• 1:12:34
  Speaker 1: just because you're seeing something in your head or something
• 1:12:38
  Speaker 1: has something to do with why some people go their
• 1:12:41
  Speaker 1: whole lives and never break a bone and other people
• 1:12:44
  Speaker 1: injure themselves all the time. All I know, I don't
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 1: understand it. I just know there's some connection between whatever
• 1:12:50
  Speaker 1: that was that was my state of mind, was those
• 1:12:53
  Speaker 1: things that were happening in my head that I couldn't
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 1: explain to anybody, and that I still can't really explain.
• 1:12:59
  Speaker 1: There's some connection between that and luck. And I love
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 1: the idea that it told you like you had a
• 1:13:06
  Speaker 1: sense of complete confidence when it was appropriate. Yeah, and
• 1:13:12
  Speaker 1: it told you, it warned you, Yeah, and it was
• 1:13:17
  Speaker 1: it was true, it was right, yeah, wild, Yeah, it's wild.
• 1:13:22
  Speaker 1: It was really weird. There's so much we don't understand.
• 1:13:25
  Speaker 1: I know, if there's one thing, But if there's one
• 1:13:28
  Speaker 1: thing I've learned from all that that I went through
• 1:13:31
  Speaker 1: and in that first half of my life that I
• 1:13:35
  Speaker 1: that I can't explain, it's that I don't know anything. No,
• 1:13:40
  Speaker 1: none of us do. It's the mistake people make is
• 1:13:43
  Speaker 1: that they think they know. Yeah, and we just don't know.
• 1:13:47
  Speaker 1: It's why whenever I hear people getting strongly opinionated about things,
• 1:13:50
  Speaker 1: where if I've ever had the misfortune to go through
• 1:13:53
  Speaker 1: a period where all of a sudden I've learned about
• 1:13:55
  Speaker 1: some new subject and I'm getting cocky about it and stuff,
• 1:13:57
  Speaker 1: I always know I feel it in my heart like
• 1:14:00
  Speaker 1: this is wrong. Like like we you you sometimes have
• 1:14:04
  Speaker 1: the illusion that you understand things, and it's really a
• 1:14:09
  Speaker 1: mistake to believe to take too much pride in that
• 1:14:12
  Speaker 1: or to to get too cocky about it, because you're
• 1:14:16
  Speaker 1: you're just seeing a little fragment of the big picture,
• 1:14:18
  Speaker 1: you know. Yeah, And that's I think that's all we'll
• 1:14:21
  Speaker 1: ever see. All we get to see is a little
• 1:14:23
  Speaker 1: a little piece, and that's that little piece that we
• 1:14:26
  Speaker 1: get to see is enough to keep us going. Yeah, yeah,
• 1:14:30
  Speaker 1: you see, you see what we all are seeing everything
• 1:14:33
  Speaker 1: we need to see to be you know. And it's
• 1:14:35
  Speaker 1: like I think it's like a magic trick where I
• 1:14:38
  Speaker 1: don't know that if we knew how it worked, it'd
• 1:14:40
  Speaker 1: be better. No, I'm sure that that it wouldn't be better.
• 1:14:44
  Speaker 1: I'm sure it would be a lot worse and worse
• 1:14:46
  Speaker 1: than people could ever imagine. People strive their whole lives
• 1:14:49
  Speaker 1: to try to figure it out, understand things, and there's
• 1:14:53
  Speaker 1: there's there's no way I can say it other than
• 1:14:55
  Speaker 1: straight to you like that. I saw. I saw the
• 1:14:58
  Speaker 1: big picture of it several times. I was showing it.
• 1:15:01
  Speaker 1: I see and and and it's way worse. Yeah. It's
• 1:15:06
  Speaker 1: just like like we we tend to pick on certain
• 1:15:10
  Speaker 1: things about the world is being imperfect. Yeah, and we
• 1:15:14
  Speaker 1: don't know what imperfection is. It could be so much worse.
• 1:15:18
  Speaker 1: Life it's so good. Life is so good. I'm very
• 1:15:23
  Speaker 1: thankful to be here. Yeah, I mean too thankful to
• 1:15:25
  Speaker 1: be here. And I'm thankful to be here with you.
• 1:15:29
  Speaker 1: It's the best. Yeah, I'm so thankful to be here
• 1:15:31
  Speaker 1: with you too. Well. I feel like we still learned done,
• 1:15:34
  Speaker 1: but we have to do. We get to do another
• 1:15:36
  Speaker 1: one one of these days. It was so good. It's endless.
• 1:15:43
  Speaker 1: You never know where it's gonna go. Oh, thanks so much.
• 1:15:47
  Speaker 1: I love talking about stuff. I mean I love hearing
• 1:15:50
  Speaker 1: about the music stuff, But the the tangents are so interesting,
• 1:15:56
  Speaker 1: Like I'll be up all night thinking about what we
• 1:15:58
  Speaker 1: talked about. Right, I love it. As you heard, Rick
• 1:16:04
  Speaker 1: and John will be back with more conversations soon in
• 1:16:07
  Speaker 1: the meantime. If you haven't heard the other episodes in
• 1:16:10
  Speaker 1: the series, picture to check those out, including episodes with
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 1: the rest of the band promoting unlimited Love from back
• 1:16:16
  Speaker 1: in April. You can hear all of our favorite red
• 1:16:18
  Speaker 1: Hot Chiecopper songs on our playlist at broken record podcast
• 1:16:21
  Speaker 1: dot com. Be sure to subscribe to our YouTube channel
• 1:16:24
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• 1:16:27
  Speaker 1: find all of our new episodes. You can follow us
• 1:16:30
  Speaker 1: on Twitter at broken Record. Broken Record is produced with
• 1:16:34
  Speaker 1: help from Leah Rose, Jason Gambrell, Ben Holliday, Eric Sandler,
• 1:16:39
  Speaker 1: Jennifer Sanchez. Our editor Sophie Crane. Our executive producer is
• 1:16:43
  Speaker 1: Mia LaBelle. Broken Record is a production of Pushkin Industries.
• 1:16:48
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• 1:17:09
  Speaker 1: A theme music spacing, re Beats and Justin Richmond