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219: How to Create a Recruiting Experience That Draws Top Talent · Customer Service Revolution | Customer Experience & Employee Experience for Business Leaders

• 0:49
  Hello listeners and welcome back to another episode of the customer service revolution podcast.
• 0:55
  Today we have with us Dave Murray, VP of consulting for the DiJulius group.
• 1:01
  How you doing Dave?
• 1:03
  I am doing great.
• 1:03
  Denise, how are you today?
• 1:05
  Wonderful.
• 1:06
  Thank you.
• 1:07
  Thank you.
• 1:07
  was a good weekend here.
• 1:09
  And you had a busy weekend, I know.
• 1:13
  It was busy, another one back to school, but hey, you gotta do what you gotta do.
• 1:17
  Yeah, yeah, somehow you fit that in between clients.
• 1:21
  I know you've been on the road an awful lot lately,
• 1:24
  You know what?
• 1:25
  I have been, but it's been great.
• 1:26
  It's been a great summer working with so many wonderful organizations, organizations that get it and want to provide a better external experience to their customer, a better
• 1:37
  internal experience to their employees.
• 1:38
  So it's been a lot of fun.
• 1:39
  It's been busy, but fun.
• 1:42
  Yeah.
• 1:42
  And this episode of the Customer Service Revolution podcast is sponsored by the Customer Experience Executive Academy, of which Dave is a very big part of.
• 1:52
  Dave is the favorite facilitator of all time for the Academy.
• 1:58
  So Dave has a lot of experience on the road, obviously serving our clients.
• 2:04
  as the VP of consulting.
• 2:06
  And he takes that information and translates it for our students and teaches them all the different parts of the methodology.
• 2:13
  So coming through the Customer Experience Executive Academy, you get learning directly from the consultant who is delivering the same systems to our clients.
• 2:24
  And I love being able to do that.
• 2:26
  happens every time we have the Academy.
• 2:28
  I will have just gotten back from somewhere and I have a great example to share, whether it's good or bad, but it's, you know, and everyone can relate, right?
• 2:36
  Cause everyone goes through the same problems, the same issues.
• 2:39
  It doesn't matter what industry you're in.
• 2:40
  And it's such a great opportunity to learn from one another and learn from that, that room, those, those people you're going through that class with.
• 2:48
  it's just a great experience.
• 2:49
  Also, Dave happens to be co-author with John DiJulius of the Employee Experience Revolution.
• 2:56
  So I'm to talk a bit about that today, Dave.
• 2:58
  You've spent decades helping organizations improve both customer and employee experiences.
• 3:04
  What inspired you to co-author the Employee Experience Revolution and why now?
• 3:10
  I think because there's such a need for it and there always has been and there's always been leadership books out there and managing books out there, but I think the timing was
• 3:20
  just right because we see firsthand how the experience internally and externally go hand in hand.
• 3:27
  And if you don't have one, you really can't have the other.
• 3:30
  So I think one of the main reasons for this book was we've seen so many organizations out there
• 3:35
  that call us because they're struggling and saying, hey, we read one of the books and we're doing these things.
• 3:39
  And maybe they're focused on the external experience, but they hadn't given any thought to the internal experience.
• 3:45
  And you really can't succeed externally if you're not focused on it internally as well.
• 3:50
  So I think that's a large gap that a lot of companies had.
• 3:52
  And so I think that's one of the main reasons that we had to publish this book, because we needed to say, hey, you need to be doing this in order to achieve the external as well.
• 4:02
  So I just think it's such a
• 4:04
  such a big opportunities for so many organizations.
• 4:07
  That along the lines that, and I'm sure this will come again later in our conversation, there's a statistic that we found while we were writing this book that 82 % of current
• 4:18
  managers out there are considered accidental managers, 82%.
• 4:23
  Now the way they define the term accidental means that maybe I did the job well and I got promoted into management or I've been with the company for a long time so I know the
• 4:31
  culture, but where the accidental comes into play,
• 4:34
  is that they were promoted into a managerial position, but never given any sort of managerial guidelines or training.
• 4:41
  It's basically, hey, you did the job well, so now go lead others and do that job just as well.
• 4:47
  And so that has created a huge gap.
• 4:50
  And that 82 % went up quite a bit after COVID, as you might expect, right?
• 4:55
  Because hiring was an issue, we were trying to find people, there was really kind of a shortage, people were leaving organizations.
• 5:02
  And so a lot of people, think during COVID got promoted and didn't have necessarily the tools to help them lead others to really be an effective leader, an effective manager, and
• 5:13
  be focused on the internal experience as much as they are on the production or whatever it is that their department is tasked to do.
• 5:21
  And so I think that's why this book is so needed right now, because there is that gap and that gap continues.
• 5:27
  And 82%, I'll tell you this, a lot of times when I go work with clients of ours,
• 5:32
  I'll ask the question, what's your percentage of accidental managers?
• 5:35
  And a lot of times I hear that number is higher than 82%.
• 5:37
  When you really think about how people are promoted these days, we are not setting people up for success to be a manager.
• 5:44
  They kind of have to learn it as they go and some of them fall into it and fall into success, some don't.
• 5:49
  And so it's really creating that blueprint of making sure that all of your managers are set up for future success.
• 5:57
  Very important.
• 5:58
  You alluded to the employee experience affecting the customer experience in the beginning of your last statement there.
• 6:05
  And I know the book talks about that.
• 6:07
  Can you share a story from your consulting where improving the employee experience transformed the customer experience results?
• 6:16
  absolutely.
• 6:17
  It happens all the time.
• 6:18
  I was working with one particular organization.
• 6:21
  They were in the physical therapy industry and they had a medium-sized contact center, maybe about 30 people that were taking incoming calls from patients and processing bills
• 6:31
  or getting questions about a bill.
• 6:34
  A lot of times it was after the bill arrived and so maybe that patient wasn't happy.
• 6:37
  Maybe there was an unexpected fee or something didn't get covered by insurance.
• 6:41
  So sometimes they were difficult conversations, but what was happening in this particular world was the internal culture was not that great.
• 6:49
  They were doing repetitive tasks.
• 6:51
  There was a manager in place that wasn't very supportive and just kind of was yelling when things were going wrong and no really positive reinforcement.
• 7:01
  And what happened is, and I literally watched it happen, team members became disengaged.
• 7:05
  They didn't love their job.
• 7:07
  They didn't want to talk to patients because that wasn't any fun.
• 7:10
  And they knew that typically they were only going to get in trouble.
• 7:13
  They weren't going to get praise for anything they were doing.
• 7:15
  So the engagement level was, really, really low.
• 7:19
  We went in and worked with that particular department.
• 7:21
  So we were, we were working with the greater organization, but we spent some time with that particular department of 30 and, really focused on them working together as a team,
• 7:31
  how important it is for them to rely on one another to deliver a great, in their case, patient experience to whomever they were talking with on the phone.
• 7:40
  And by spending a few months with them and kind of refocusing their energy, they did bring in a new manager, right?
• 7:47
  So they did bring in someone else to lead that team.
• 7:50
  And we trained them up on what they should be doing, how they should be spending their time.
• 7:54
  It made a huge difference.
• 7:56
  And one of the things I like to say for those that are in the contact center world, this will make sense to you.
• 8:01
  If you're not, it might not make sense, but average answer time is a huge metric in the contact center world.
• 8:07
  When we started working with that team,
• 8:09
  their average answer speed or average answer time was over two minutes, right?
• 8:13
  So callers were waiting over two minutes to get to a live person on average every single time.
• 8:19
  When we finished that work, we got that average answer speed down to about 12 seconds, right?
• 8:24
  They were more engaged with their job.
• 8:27
  They wanted to help the next patient.
• 8:29
  They had that sense of purpose.
• 8:31
  And the cool thing about it is we made that change without changing any personnel.
• 8:36
  Yes, the manager was relieved of duties and they brought someone else in, but those original 30 people were all the same, right?
• 8:43
  A lot of times organizations see a problem or a problem department like that and they come in, we have to blow it up.
• 8:48
  We have to start from scratch.
• 8:49
  That wasn't the case at all.
• 8:51
  Those people were, were willing to do the job.
• 8:53
  They wanted to do the job.
• 8:54
  They were just really kind of being suppressed and pushed down because they had poor leadership that wasn't really viewing them as an asset and also having them play to their
• 9:02
  strengths.
• 9:03
  So.
• 9:04
  It happens all the time.
• 9:05
  And again, we see it where organizations want to provide a great external experience, but they've missed this really important piece of it, which is the internal first.
• 9:14
  So answer speed may not be something everyone has to deal with in their organization, but all of us have been on the other end of that phone call where we're waiting those two
• 9:25
  minutes, two minutes to 12 seconds is a big difference.
• 9:28
  I think there are a lot of companies that need to go from 30 minutes to two minutes and we'd be happy.
• 9:34
  think about that the next time you're on hold as well as a consumer, right?
• 9:38
  You may be holding because they are understaffed.
• 9:42
  Maybe they're busier than ever.
• 9:43
  I always think of the airlines and Neil, if there's a weather issue, then of course it's going to be harder to get through.
• 9:48
  So maybe it is a busyness factor, maybe they're understaffed, but chances are also pretty good that it's just an unengaged workforce that you are about to get in contact with.
• 9:59
  So think about the frustration from that 30 minutes.
• 10:01
  only getting doubled because you're now dealing with someone who really doesn't want to help you, really doesn't care, they're just not engaged with the work.
• 10:08
  Understaffed, accidental managers, these are all things that are an issue for companies looking for talent.
• 10:17
  So in your book, you mentioned that employees have more choices and higher expectations than ever before.
• 10:23
  What are the top things companies need to change if they want to attract and keep top talent?
• 10:29
  Well, there's a couple of things.
• 10:31
  First off, they really have to focus on their culture like we talked about and make sure that when they're bringing team members in, they're not playing the manager lottery.
• 10:40
  And what I mean by that is we've all been there, right?
• 10:43
  You can work for a great company and you might have employee A who works for a boss that they love.
• 10:49
  They love to go to work every day.
• 10:51
  They would go through that proverbial brick wall for their boss.
• 10:54
  Then we also have had that boss too, where it's kind of like, I don't feel engaged.
• 10:57
  I feel like I'm just getting in trouble.
• 10:58
  I feel like I'm a foot out the door and I'm not going to give as much.
• 11:03
  What happens very often in organizations is those managers co-exist, right?
• 11:08
  And sometimes they might be in similar departments.
• 11:10
  So the first thing we want to do is get that managerial lottery out of the picture so that all of our managers are leading from a consistent way.
• 11:19
  and doing things that we want them to do to deliver that consistent internal experience.
• 11:23
  And we have to train them to do that.
• 11:25
  Managers just don't bring that with them.
• 11:26
  I think that's part of the problem.
• 11:28
  A lot of organizations, oh, you're a manager now.
• 11:29
  You'll figure it out.
• 11:31
  And that's not the case.
• 11:32
  If we want certain things to happen, like one-on-one meetings with team members on some sort of cadence, whether it's monthly or quarterly or whatever, maybe it's weekly
• 11:43
  stand-ups or huddles, whatever it is that we want to have happen,
• 11:45
  We need to train that.
• 11:47
  can't assume that those things are just going to happen because it's a management duty.
• 11:51
  But that's what happens a lot out there in the world.
• 11:54
  So that's the first thing.
• 11:55
  Level the playing field so that all of your managers understand how to lead so that all of our team members are then getting that consistent experience and understanding internally.
• 12:05
  So that's a big piece of it.
• 12:07
  And then the other thing that I would recommend too is really take a look.
• 12:11
  you're in a competitive market and trying to attract top talent,
• 12:15
  Really look at your hiring process and your onboarding process because that's so important, right?
• 12:21
  Making sure, yes, we want to find the right people, but we want to be presenting our best foot as well.
• 12:27
  We want to be putting that forward.
• 12:28
  And a lot of times we don't.
• 12:29
  A lot of times what we have found is organizations may have a little bit of an old school mentality when it comes to the HR and hiring process.
• 12:38
  And it's a lot of times it falls under the way we've always done it and it's always worked.
• 12:42
  So why change it?
• 12:43
  We forget that we are delivering an experience to whoever that potential team member might be.
• 12:48
  Right.
• 12:49
  And whether they take the job or not, they might be a potential customer or maybe not a potential customer, depending on what your industry is, or maybe a potential advocate for
• 12:57
  us as a brand or not, depending on how that experience goes.
• 13:00
  And, know, one of the things that I still hear, know, those days of being ghosted by a company, right.
• 13:06
  Sending a resume and having an interview even and never hearing back.
• 13:11
  That still happens, right?
• 13:12
  So we're not focused on the experience we're delivering when it comes to even something as simple, but as important as that kind of that first interaction, that first time we meet
• 13:22
  with a potential new hire.
• 13:25
  So it's got to start from the very beginning and then work its way through that team member's life cycle with us.
• 13:31
  It to go to the onboarding and make sure that we're focused on how important it is for our customer experience, whatever the focus is of that department, but also making sure that
• 13:40
  we're
• 13:41
  One of the things that we found during onboarding is that in many organizations, the onboarding process itself can be way too fast.
• 13:50
  It's just kind of throwing everything at them and hoping they digest it and then get them out on the floor, wherever it is they're going and hope for the best.
• 13:57
  Or sometimes it can be too slow and team members don't feel challenged.
• 14:01
  we know it's kind of like, we've probably all been there at one point where the manager's like, oh, I didn't know you were starting today.
• 14:05
  Here, just leaf through this book and I'll get to you when I can because I'm swamped.
• 14:09
  That still happens too.
• 14:11
  So it's really having a system in place, a preparedness, and making sure that everything from the recruiting process, to the actual hiring, to the onboarding is all in sync and
• 14:22
  all focused on the experience that we're delivering along with the content, that important content training that we're delivering as well.
• 14:29
  So you mentioned that they're attracting and recruiting.
• 14:32
  And I think that's a piece that gets missed sometimes is the actual recruiting.
• 14:38
  But I've heard you say the recruiting process, the very first and possibly most important part of the process.
• 14:46
  So how does that experience affect a future employee?
• 14:50
  And what does that have to do with the brand?
• 14:53
  Well, first of all, we want to make sure that we have an attitude across the organization that we're not for everybody.
• 15:01
  Right.
• 15:01
  And that's okay.
• 15:02
  Right.
• 15:02
  We need to be selective.
• 15:04
  And if we're interviewing someone that may not be the right fit either for the job itself, because maybe their personality just doesn't align to the type of work, or maybe doesn't
• 15:13
  seem like a good fit on the team.
• 15:15
  You know, I think a lot of organizations are still kind of out there in that reactive hiring mode where we just need warm bodies.
• 15:21
  We need people.
• 15:22
  we're obviously much better in a proactive hiring environment where we're looking to get some bench folks and then have some people in mind who could take that job if it becomes
• 15:32
  available three months down the road or if we expand or whatever that may be.
• 15:36
  So that's the first thought is really making sure that we're being proactive with their hiring and looking to bring people on board.
• 15:42
  You know, we were with organizations that find great talent and they just hire them and they're like, I'm not even sure what that role is going to be yet, but we want you on our
• 15:50
  team and we're going to
• 15:51
  create a role for you or we're going to have you fit into a couple of different things.
• 15:54
  making sure that you're not missing out on great talent and that you're forward thinking on that talent is really, important.
• 16:01
  But then also, what are you delivering to them?
• 16:04
  So what is your value proposition to that potential team member?
• 16:08
  And one of the things that employees are looking for right now is opportunity to continue to grow and learn.
• 16:14
  Right, so are there learning opportunities?
• 16:16
  What's your training look like?
• 16:17
  Does your training set you apart?
• 16:20
  Right, I know as a dad of some early 20s and some teenagers, when they were going through that first job process, I would always try and steer them in a direction where I knew that
• 16:31
  they were gonna get some great training along with it, right?
• 16:34
  So you're gonna go take this job and learn some stuff.
• 16:37
  Hopefully you get some training that sticks with you.
• 16:39
  as well, because some organizations are so good at that while others it's really just kind an afterthought and training gets thrown together and it's kind of here's what you need to
• 16:47
  know and I'll go do it.
• 16:49
  Right?
• 16:49
  So what's your training look like?
• 16:51
  Are you really providing your team member value?
• 16:53
  And then outside of your organization, what are those continuing education opportunities?
• 16:57
  What does that look like?
• 16:58
  Because that's really, really important in the workforce today.
• 17:02
  So I would say that's one great place to start.
• 17:04
  Does your training set you apart?
• 17:06
  from the competition.
• 17:07
  And if it doesn't, then that might be a really good place to start, along with what are some of your benefits outside of traditional benefits, especially when it comes to
• 17:15
  continuing education, because we know today how important that is to new hires.
• 17:20
  Those are really good points.
• 17:21
  I had conversations recently with two different people who are both terrific work ethic.
• 17:28
  One I worked with before and just absolutely a fantastic worker, very intelligent, dedicated, and another very similar person who both started new positions and are both
• 17:41
  unhappy with how slow
• 17:45
  their opportunities come about.
• 17:47
  So one had worked for an organization where she was promoted four times in four years.
• 17:52
  And now she has people telling her, managers telling her, you know, you're great, but we don't work that way here.
• 18:01
  It's not based, it's not based on merit.
• 18:04
  It's based on your length of time there.
• 18:07
  So there just aren't those opportunities.
• 18:10
  And if you have
• 18:12
  education as an opportunity even where you have some type of growth.
• 18:16
  think that helps.
• 18:17
  And the other person said, she was approached and said, Hey, we think you're looking for a VP opportunity.
• 18:23
  There isn't one here and there probably isn't one that's going to be opened in X amount of time.
• 18:28
  So you need carrots for these people, right?
• 18:32
  And where do those come from?
• 18:35
  Absolutely.
• 18:36
  And we talk a lot about that in the book.
• 18:38
  One of the things that you brought up more carrots.
• 18:41
  What we find is when we go through this process.
• 18:44
  So a lot of things that are discussed in the book, as you know, Denise, we do in some of our workshops with our clients.
• 18:50
  And when we're going through those workshops, a lot of times we will find that there'll be a little bit of a carrot desert, if you will, right?
• 18:56
  Where all of a sudden, know, my first year was great.
• 18:59
  Everyone loved me and I got recognized and I got a gift card because I did this and I got a promotion, whatever that was.
• 19:06
  But every organization at some point or another has a lull.
• 19:10
  Like maybe it's year two, maybe it's year three and there's nothing else that really happens until you hit your five year or whatever that might be.
• 19:17
  And there's a lack of carrots.
• 19:19
  They're just, they're not happening.
• 19:21
  And that really falls on managers, right?
• 19:23
  Managers need to be finding those carrots, need to be finding those opportunities.
• 19:28
  to reward their team members, to push their team members, to make sure that we're focused on things.
• 19:33
  And what we see happen sometimes is when managers, one of the big things that happens to managers that I see is a lot of times they get pulled in so many directions, right?
• 19:43
  So they get hired into a manager or a director role and they're really excited, but then all of a sudden they're in more and more meetings, right?
• 19:50
  They're sitting on this board or they're on this committee and they're always having to give their two cents.
• 19:56
  and they're in meetings, meetings, meetings, and all of a sudden they're not there to support their team members anymore.
• 20:01
  They're not there to really learn their team members.
• 20:03
  I always say one of the most important functions of a manager is to learn your team member and help them grow and get to where they want to be.
• 20:11
  If I oversee five team members, I feel my job is to know where all five of them want to go next, and I'm taking steps to help them get there, whether it's recommending continuing
• 20:20
  education, putting them on projects that are relevant to what they want to do, whatever that is that I can do.
• 20:25
  But what I see is with managers being pulled in so many different directions, they don't always have the time or in many cases, no one's ever said, hey, this is part of your job,
• 20:34
  right?
• 20:34
  You need to grow your team members too and keep them happy and keep them here.
• 20:37
  You know, unfortunately, I think that employee retention is a metric internally that is underutilized by most organizations, right?
• 20:47
  I think organizations should be looking at employee retention.
• 20:51
  and giving those managers credit and learning what they're doing to retain their employees and start to create some best practices and spread those around the rest of their
• 20:58
  organization.
• 20:59
  But right now, there's so many excuses.
• 21:01
  If we're losing team members left and right, it's usually not the manager catching any grief for that.
• 21:07
  It's usually, it's the market or, it's the pay, it's this, that, the other.
• 21:11
  But a lot of times it's just poor management.
• 21:13
  It's management that's not taking that interest in the team member, not supporting that team member and that...
• 21:19
  That's what leads to people leaving early, or the lack of carrots, because they're just not taking the time to of plot that out and have that path for a team member.
• 21:28
  So I'm a big believer that managers should be on the hook for their team's retention just as much as anything else.
• 21:37
  Their sales number, their production number, whatever it is that they're actually overseeing in their department, that employee retention should be up there just as high as
• 21:44
  a metric that we're looking at to base your success.
• 21:47
  carrots, opportunities, those kinds of things will turn away a great candidate.
• 21:52
  We know that.
• 21:52
  What are other mistakes that people make recruiting that turn candidates away and how can they fix it?
• 22:01
  Well, sometimes, again, it's not having a system in place, just kind of throwing them in, right?
• 22:05
  It's not personalizing.
• 22:07
  So let's say we hire somebody, and this is pretty common.
• 22:10
  I hear this a lot too.
• 22:11
  Hey, we know you know all this already, but you have to sit through this day of whatever and hear all this stuff.
• 22:16
  And we're not gonna get to the things that you actually wanna hear for a while, right?
• 22:21
  And so that's a big piece of it.
• 22:23
  The other thing that I see that happens to great candidates too is...
• 22:26
  When organizations aren't prepared and don't have the training in place and have that system in place of how you go through onboarding, and a lot of organizations don't, right?
• 22:35
  It's like show up and read the manual.
• 22:37
  We're going to show you how to do a couple of things.
• 22:39
  You're going to be on your own in two or three days.
• 22:42
  What happens so often is organizations kind of set their team members up to fail, right?
• 22:48
  It's a sink or swim mentality that even the best employees that might have the wherewithal to do the job.
• 22:55
  might feel thrown in, might feel like they're in this kind of sink or swim mode and they're just trying to get by survival mode if you will.
• 23:01
  And that's stressful, right?
• 23:03
  So a lot of times if we're not properly preparing our team members to do the job well, we're really pushing them out the door, right?
• 23:11
  Because they're gonna, if they're not failing, they're probably gonna feel like they're failing.
• 23:15
  And if they're not feeling successful, they're probably gonna start feeling that they're not in the right place.
• 23:20
  So again, a lot of times it goes back to
• 23:22
  that lack of training in place, that lack of systems, right?
• 23:26
  And I hear this all the time too in organizations that, we don't have any specific training, but everyone sits with Bob, right?
• 23:34
  Everyone comes in and sits with Bob and that's how they learn everything.
• 23:37
  They sit with Bob for a week, then they're good to go.
• 23:39
  Well, you know, maybe Bob's not our best employer.
• 23:41
  Maybe Bob's having a bad week or maybe Bob doesn't know everything he should know, right?
• 23:45
  Or, you know, maybe he's just feeling tired and...
• 23:48
  and doesn't do the full clap, whatever that is.
• 23:51
  So a lot of times kind of that sit with mentality, just go sit with somebody and learn is also something that comes back to bite organizations.
• 24:01
  having a training system in place is hugely important.
• 24:05
  Having an orientation, making sure that it's a two-way conversation, right?
• 24:10
  Making sure that our team members are getting it, asking if they have any questions.
• 24:13
  A lot of times it's one way, it's just force.
• 24:15
  It's do this, do this, do this.
• 24:17
  and there's not a time for question and answers or time for a new hire to say, hey, wait, I don't get this.
• 24:23
  Can we spend a little more time on this?
• 24:24
  So taking a look at how your training is currently happening is really important as well.
• 24:30
  Now I get it.
• 24:31
  A lot of times there's a self-guided training these days, right?
• 24:34
  Sit at a computer for a couple hours.
• 24:36
  I watch some videos.
• 24:37
  I take some quizzes.
• 24:38
  I have no problem with that as long as it's done well.
• 24:40
  And as long as
• 24:42
  I have my manager or supervisor or someone as a resource, right?
• 24:46
  Someone's checking in on me.
• 24:47
  We're having a conversation about these things.
• 24:49
  But a lot of times with this self-guided training, it's sink or swim there too.
• 24:54
  You figure it out on your own.
• 24:56
  You don't have anyone to go to.
• 24:58
  Maybe I ask my neighbor, but I feel kind of silly because I'm new here, right?
• 25:02
  So a lot of times people are just kind of left in the dark on a lot of these things.
• 25:06
  They have to figure it out as they go.
• 25:08
  They don't feel successful and they start to look for something new.
• 25:11
  you mentioned with recruiting that there are people, other organizations that will look for people, just good people and hire a bench.
• 25:22
  So with recruiting, it's more than just filling a position.
• 25:28
  And that's one example, but what about creating the memorable branded experience in just the recruiting process?
• 25:35
  What does that actually look like in practice?
• 25:38
  Yeah, and that's fantastic, right?
• 25:40
  We want them to join our organization and feel like they made the best decision of their lives, right?
• 25:48
  We want to deliver everything they need to feel so happy.
• 25:52
  We've all had a little buyer's remorse when it comes to taking a position, right?
• 25:55
  Did I make the right move?
• 25:57
  Should I really have left my old position?
• 25:59
  A lot of times we have some buyer's remorse there.
• 26:01
  We want to remove that from the equation.
• 26:03
  When we're hiring somebody,
• 26:05
  We want to make sure that they know that they've to the right place.
• 26:08
  They're in the right place.
• 26:10
  We're going to support them.
• 26:11
  Now, how do you do that?
• 26:12
  Right.
• 26:12
  So a lot of times organizations just need to put some time into it, not dollars, but time into it and create a better experience.
• 26:20
  And it could be little things as well.
• 26:22
  That doesn't have to be anything huge, but are you creating some sort of fun press release that we hired Denise Thompson and Denise is starting on Tuesday and we can't wait to have
• 26:30
  Denise and we're putting that out.
• 26:31
  You sometimes it's as fun as that.
• 26:33
  Sometimes it's making sure that when we're bringing that person in for their first day, they get to meet all their team members.
• 26:39
  Maybe there's a lunch of something very welcoming.
• 26:42
  Cause we've all been in that position where we went for our first day of a job.
• 26:46
  And I mentioned this before, the manager forgot we were coming or didn't know that there's no IT access.
• 26:51
  Cause that, that request hasn't gone in yet.
• 26:53
  So don't have a login or a password.
• 26:55
  And I feel like I'm intruding on everybody in this organization, right?
• 26:58
  I like, I shouldn't be here versus.
• 27:01
  giving them a welcome that they can't believe that they feel so fortunate to be here because everything's ready to go.
• 27:09
  IT comes over and personally delivers the information, shows us how to log in.
• 27:14
  My manager greets me at the door.
• 27:15
  I meet all my team members.
• 27:17
  Maybe later we go for a lunch.
• 27:19
  So really focused on those little things that very often get taken for granted in organizations.
• 27:26
  can have a huge, huge impact.
• 27:29
  And one more thing that we talk about in the book too, to really make sure that our team members are prideful is give them an elevator speech.
• 27:36
  When they're going to a cookout this weekend and someone says, hey, I heard you started a new job, what do you do?
• 27:42
  You don't want them to be like, I don't really know yet.
• 27:43
  I just started, I'm trying to figure it out.
• 27:46
  Tell them, give them something to say, you know what, I'm working for this organization and we do this and we create this and we supply this to these organizations.
• 27:55
  Make sure that they're excited about being there and have an understanding of the important role that they're going to take in that process within the organization.
• 28:05
  love that idea, preparing the elevator speech for them, because that can be tough to come up with, especially when you don't know everything that your role is going to include, or
• 28:16
  you don't know enough about the organization itself yet.
• 28:18
  So backing up further, before you're even brought on, before you're onboarded, when you're out looking for a position, what attracts people to certain companies?
• 28:30
  Why do they...
• 28:32
  Why are they looking at company ABC versus XYZ?
• 28:37
  What are things companies can do to be the one that people look for, look at, to apply to before even the hiring comes into question?
• 28:49
  Companies just like people have reputations and almost to an extent have their own personality, if you will, That's from their culture.
• 28:59
  And so that draws people, right?
• 29:01
  People want to see what you're doing out there.
• 29:03
  People want to understand what you stand for and what you do as an organization.
• 29:07
  Maybe it's your mission statement, maybe it's your purpose or your core values, just to give a couple of examples.
• 29:14
  But people want to be...
• 29:16
  part of something bigger than themselves.
• 29:18
  They just don't want to go and exchange hours for a paycheck.
• 29:22
  Right?
• 29:22
  That's not really what we want to do.
• 29:23
  We want to go and do important work, make a difference, and then also maybe make an impact on top of that because we're working for a larger organization that does just that.
• 29:32
  Right?
• 29:33
  Maybe we sponsor a lot of 5Ks or do things with some schools in the community, whatever that might be.
• 29:39
  And I think those things are really, really important because
• 29:43
  because people hear about those things, they see them on social, they see their friends that are employees posting those things.
• 29:50
  And so your reputation can really, really precede you in a good way or in a bad way when it comes to your company culture.
• 29:58
  And one of the things I say about culture, and I think it comes up in the book too, but I say it all the time in workshops, your company culture is going to happen whether you like
• 30:07
  it or not, right?
• 30:09
  So
• 30:09
  Culture is something that's going to exist.
• 30:11
  You can't hide from it.
• 30:12
  You can't avoid it.
• 30:14
  So you might as well put some time into it and make it the culture that you want it to be.
• 30:18
  Because if you don't, going to very well be maybe a culture that you don't want to have happen.
• 30:24
  And so we always say that culture has to be purposeful.
• 30:27
  We have to be focused on it as an organization to create it the way we want it, to cultivate it, to make sure that we're hiring people that fit into it and help propel our
• 30:36
  culture in the direction we want to go.
• 30:38
  And so that's a really important piece of it.
• 30:39
  and, and employees can sense that too.
• 30:42
  Employees can, or prospects even to your point, Denise can sense that this is an organization that is focused on culture.
• 30:49
  It's going places that it values its team members.
• 30:52
  there are opportunities here.
• 30:54
  They talk about the opportunities.
• 30:56
  Right.
• 30:56
  And that's what employees are looking for versus, here's a job.
• 31:01
  Take it or leave it.
• 31:02
  Here's the job we have.
• 31:03
  Right.
• 31:03
  But that's how a lot of companies come across.
• 31:06
  especially in the early goings, right?
• 31:07
  It's just a job and there's not a lot about us and what we do.
• 31:11
  Or maybe there is on a LinkedIn post, but when I actually talk to someone about it, it's not the same, it doesn't match the excitement, right?
• 31:19
  This is a well-written post, but the person I talked to really didn't seem to cite any examples or be as excited as I was to learn about this company.
• 31:27
  They weren't excited to share.
• 31:29
  So it's really gotta take...
• 31:32
  It's really got to be a 360 view of your entire recruiting experience, right?
• 31:35
  It's not just a great LinkedIn post or a great ad.
• 31:38
  We got to make sure that first initial contact is meeting that same level of excitement, any correspondence we're having.
• 31:45
  I mean, you got to keep in mind that you are literally competing with others for that person, right?
• 31:50
  And so you got to be focused on making sure that you're making that first impression.
• 31:55
  You're making an impact because if you're not, some other organization will and they'll get that person.
• 32:02
  You brought up some things about purpose and community involvement.
• 32:07
  And I think that's really coming into play now.
• 32:10
  We didn't see it decades ago.
• 32:13
  People were interested in coming to work and going home, and that was it.
• 32:17
  And now these extended community involvement type of events have become a big place in the workplace.
• 32:25
  And they've earned that.
• 32:27
  And I think particularly when we look at Gen Z, Millennials even, different generations have different needs within the workplace.
• 32:37
  And I think those, those are things we need to update and be on the lookout for constantly.
• 32:42
  No.
• 32:43
  Yeah, I agree 100%.
• 32:44
  So I can speak from experience.
• 32:46
  I have a 23 year old daughter who graduated college last May.
• 32:50
  So she's been out for about a year and a half now and is in the workforce and got herself a good job.
• 32:55
  We're really proud of her.
• 32:56
  But I can tell you firsthand that something she values way more than I would have in my first job is work life balance.
• 33:04
  You know, I didn't know what work life balance meant, right?
• 33:07
  I just, I just went to work and worked and worked and, and got up the next day and did it again.
• 33:12
  But work-life balance is important.
• 33:14
  And here's the thing, companies can be a part of that.
• 33:17
  It doesn't just mean that I work from 9 to 4.30 and that's it, or I work remotely and I never see anyone in the office.
• 33:24
  Companies can help create that work-life balance.
• 33:28
  They can bring in yoga classes or offer discounts or do some things from a benefits standpoint that promotes that work-life balance.
• 33:36
  Is mindful of that and making sure that you're keeping your team members.
• 33:40
  happy because I know that rapid growth and work-life balance to this new working generation, these Gen Zs are probably the two most important things, at least that I have
• 33:49
  heard just from chatting with many of them.
• 33:52
  And so that's what organizations have to be mindful of.
• 33:55
  And we went through this a few years ago with the millennials.
• 33:59
  There was a big thing with the millennials that they were changing jobs so often.
• 34:03
  And what we learned was
• 34:05
  it wasn't necessarily the generation that was coming into the workforce.
• 34:07
  It was how they were being managed.
• 34:09
  That organizations had to adapt to the new workforce, that the new workforce wasn't necessarily going to adapt to how organizations were doing things.
• 34:18
  And that was an important lesson probably 12, 15 years ago that organizations tried to do things to make it better, right?
• 34:25
  Like there was ping pong in the break room and maybe a free lunch on Wednesday, but they eventually realized,
• 34:31
  that those are kind of superficial and those aren't going to really create your culture.
• 34:34
  They're nice to have, but you can't just do that and hope you're going to have a great culture that you really have to be focused on and find ways to drive that work-life
• 34:43
  balance.
• 34:44
  Make sure that the work's getting done, because that's obviously important to the organization, but how can we make sure that we're focused on that work-life balance and
• 34:51
  that our team members are feeling that as authentic as well?
• 34:55
  I love that.
• 34:56
  You have, well, two actually upcoming live stream workshops that I want to bring up.
• 35:02
  One of them is on the recruiting experience and one is on the onboarding experience, which we discussed both of today.
• 35:08
  Can you give our listeners a preview of what they'll walk away with?
• 35:13
  Yeah, so in both of those examples, both recruiting and onboarding, we're gonna talk about some best practices that are out there to help make you stand apart and to help make sure
• 35:24
  that you are more effective.
• 35:26
  So for example, on the recruiting side, we just talked about some of those examples, but what can you do to stand out against other organizations that are recruiting that same
• 35:34
  person?
• 35:36
  When you find someone, rather, short of hiring them on the spot, which maybe is a good plan too,
• 35:42
  But what can you do to make sure that you are standing apart when they're sitting back and comparing you against maybe two others, three others?
• 35:49
  What can really make you stand apart?
• 35:51
  And what can make you be the culture that they want to come to, that I want to work?
• 35:56
  I compare it everything and it's apples to apples.
• 35:59
  I want to work here because, right, it's not always the work, it's not always the title.
• 36:04
  A lot of times it's those other things that are really, really important.
• 36:07
  So we'll talk about that in the recruiting session.
• 36:11
  And then in the onboarding session, one of the things we'll talk about, onboarding usually is a little bit of an afterthought.
• 36:17
  Usually it's kind of a little, almost a little bit of a pain.
• 36:20
  we got Bob started.
• 36:21
  We can't wait to get Bob up on the phones or whatever, but we gotta get him through onboarding.
• 36:25
  And a lot of times it's just rushed.
• 36:27
  Onboarding and any sort of orientation process is so important to organizations, but they don't treat it that way.
• 36:35
  There's some science that tells us that during that one week or two week onboarding timeframe or orientation timeframe, I am more open at that time to learn what you're
• 36:49
  talking about, to buy into your purpose, buy into your action state, whatever it is, I am more open and more excited about being here as part of this organization than I will ever
• 36:59
  be in the future.
• 37:00
  Right, so that first week or two weeks, however long it is for you, in some cases it might be a couple of days, those days are so important.
• 37:09
  But again, a lot of times it's like fill out the paperwork and I need your driver's license.
• 37:13
  It's just all the mundane things and very little excitement.
• 37:17
  And it needs to be the reverse, right?
• 37:19
  It needs to be the excitement first.
• 37:21
  Hey, welcome, you're here and here's what we do.
• 37:23
  We're so excited to have you.
• 37:24
  Here's what makes us great.
• 37:25
  You're gonna fit right in.
• 37:27
  It should be talking about the external experience, the internal experience, what makes us great, why we love you, all those things.
• 37:35
  But instead, usually the first day, it's just paperwork and humdrum.
• 37:40
  So a lot of times it's looking at it a little differently because we know we have a person that psychologically is ready to be bought into us as an organization if we do it well.
• 37:53
  But a lot of times organizations aren't thinking that way.
• 37:55
  Again, it's just going through the motions, gotta get this done, get this person up to speed, check the box, off they go.
• 38:00
  so it's really, really, orientation is probably one of the biggest missed opportunities that organizations have when it comes to corporate America and how it could be so
• 38:11
  different and so inspiring for those new team members and really kick them off for success in a great direction.
• 38:17
  But very often it's just ho hum mundane and we got to do it and now go to your job.
• 38:23
  So it could be an opportunity to really set the table for success to come, but most organizations don't see it that way.
• 38:28
  I know we're talking about employers here, um but tell me, do these recruitment and onboarding even workshops, could they apply to schools as well?
• 38:39
  I know enrollment is down at a lot of colleges.
• 38:42
  Could these recruitment experience workshops help them too?
• 38:47
  Absolutely.
• 38:48
  And we've actually worked with a couple of colleges.
• 38:50
  We've had interest from other colleges.
• 38:52
  And one of things they're telling us is we need to stand out.
• 38:55
  And so what does that look like?
• 38:57
  And so I can give you just some firsthand information on that going through this process.
• 39:02
  Two years ago with my middle, Lily, when she was applying to colleges and she applied to seven universities, she got into all seven.
• 39:12
  and it was just really interesting to see once she got in what happened next.
• 39:17
  So she applied, but she hadn't made a decision yet.
• 39:20
  So all seven of these colleges had a student that said, I'm interested, maybe I'll come there, but hadn't committed yet.
• 39:27
  And what happened between that application process to the day you have to commit was pretty interesting because we heard from some colleges pretty regularly and they were
• 39:36
  great.
• 39:36
  They were checking in, how's it going?
• 39:37
  Have you made a decision?
• 39:38
  Can we help you?
• 39:39
  Any questions?
• 39:40
  We want you to find the right place.
• 39:41
  Hopefully it's us, but we understand it might not be.
• 39:44
  Just a lot of communication, even sending a couple of small gifts in the mail.
• 39:48
  A couple of colleges, we got the letter, you're accepted, let us know, and that was it.
• 39:52
  Never heard from them again.
• 39:53
  Again, you got to be mindful, just like in a job applicant format here, you have a willing participant.
• 39:59
  You've had someone that took the time to say, yes, I think I might want to do this, I might want to come here.
• 40:04
  How do you react to that makes all the difference in the world, right?
• 40:08
  Are you gonna be like, okay, well, if you like us, let us know, or are you gonna be an advocate for yourselves and try and keep your name out there, try and separate yourselves
• 40:16
  from the competition?
• 40:17
  And I was kind of amazed at how many schools did not do that.
• 40:21
  Out of the seven that Lilly got into, I think two were pretty good at that regular communication.
• 40:28
  How's it going?
• 40:28
  How can we help?
• 40:29
  And five, we really didn't hear from at all.
• 40:32
  Wow, that's shocking.
• 40:35
  But it's I guess, not terribly unusual and the same thing with employers in the job market.
• 40:40
  So these workshops, they're part of the DeJulious Group's annual live stream membership.
• 40:46
  For someone on the fence about joining the membership, having access to all of these trainings, what can you tell them?
• 40:54
  Well, I think it's such a good use of time.
• 40:57
  So when you remember and if you're, if you're attending live or if you can't attend live, you still have access to those workshops after the fact.
• 41:05
  you remember attending live is great because we do have some interaction.
• 41:09
  we have some chat with, you know, and we have people across all industries.
• 41:13
  You know, and one thing I hear a lot when it comes to customer experience that I like to debug a little bit, I always hear people say,
• 41:19
  Well, what about our industry?
• 41:20
  Have you worked with someone in XYZ industry?
• 41:23
  And you know, at the end of the day, it really doesn't matter because what we're talking about is that customer experience.
• 41:29
  It doesn't really matter what industry you're in.
• 41:32
  At the end of the day, it is a customer experience that is either really, really good or it's lacking and or it's an internal experience that's really, really good or it's
• 41:40
  lacking.
• 41:41
  It doesn't matter what the organization does.
• 41:44
  So that's a really cool thing about the live streams because you have people across.
• 41:48
  different types of industries that are sharing their two cents, sharing some best practices.
• 41:53
  But I think some of the biggest takeaways, Denise, is every time you attend one of those live streams, you will walk away with some best practice ideas that you will want to
• 42:04
  implement immediately.
• 42:05
  And so we always recommend that you watch those with a team, a small team of yours, whether it's a steering committee that's focused on whatever the topic is, whether it's
• 42:13
  internal experience or external experience.
• 42:16
  that you're sitting with the committee and you're having a conversation of, what does that look like in our world?
• 42:20
  That's a great best practice example that John DiJulius just shared about Starbucks or Chick-fil-A or whomever.
• 42:26
  What does that look like in our world?
• 42:28
  So you can take these real world examples, things that we have helped organizations create and we know will work and talk about, okay, what does that look like in our world?
• 42:37
  How can we make that work?
• 42:38
  What do we have to tweak to make it work for our team?
• 42:42
  So to me, the biggest ...
• 42:46
  value are those best practices you're going to walk away with immediately and some that you can maybe even implement immediately.
• 42:53
  You're also going to get some ideas for more long-term focus, right?
• 42:56
  Some things that might take a little work, some things to talk about and maybe put into practice down the road.
• 43:02
  But there's so many good ideas.
• 43:04
  I think the problem with the live stream is you get so many ideas.
• 43:07
  It's deciding where to start and really prioritizing what you need to do.
• 43:13
  to be most effective.
• 43:14
  And we'll help you do that too if you want.
• 43:16
  We could always have a conversation outside of a live stream and say, hey, here's our problem.
• 43:19
  What would you recommend we do and talk about some of those places that we would start or avoid depending on what situation you're in.
• 43:27
  But you're gonna walk away with so many best practices and really that energy and focus to dive into it and make a difference.
• 43:36
  Thanks, Dave.
• 43:38
  So listeners, the live stream membership is $249 a year.
• 43:42
  So it's $249 per person per year.
• 43:45
  And with that, you get four live stream workshops, one each quarter.
• 43:51
  But you also get access to all of the previous ones that have been recorded.
• 43:56
  So there are lots of live streams, live streams now there.
• 44:00
  What do you call them when they're post-live?
• 44:02
  Post-live streams.
• 44:03
  Yes.
• 44:04
  in the library and new ones constantly coming up.
• 44:07
  And as Dave said, if you're not able to make the live date, so the next one on recruiting is September 8th, and they all run from 12 to two, noon to two Eastern time.
• 44:17
  If you can't make that, you will get the recorded session if you're a member.
• 44:22
  So to join the membership,
• 44:24
  You can go to thedjuliusgroup.com forward slash membership.
• 44:29
  You'll find that information in the show notes as well.
• 44:33
  So we'll have that for you there.
• 44:34
  And you can always contact info @ the DiJulius Group, email us for more information too.
• 44:40
  Thank you so much for sharing all of this with us today.
• 44:44
  You can grab Dave's book, The Employee Experience Revolution.
• 44:48
  Anywhere books are sold, we sell them directly on our website.
• 44:52
  If you order them on our website, we can also get Dave to sign it for you.
• 44:56
  And don't miss his upcoming workshop, How to Create a Recruiting Experience, available exclusively to members of the Experience Revolution.
• 45:05
  And again, it's thedijuliusgroup.com forward slash membership for that.
• 45:10
  Dave, I appreciate your time today.
• 45:12
  Thank you for joining us.
• 45:13
  I hope we have you back again soon.
• 45:15
  I'd love to, and thanks for having me, Denise.
• 45:17
  It was great.
• 45:17
  All right, bye.
• 45:19
  day.