Latest / Two Doting Dads with Matty J & Ash / #254 Dr Golly & The Life-Saving Rule Every Parent Should Know

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#254 Dr Golly & The Life-Saving Rule Every Parent Should Know · Two Doting Dads with Matty J & Ash

0:15
Speaker 1: Matt, I have a funny feeling about this next guest
0:18
Speaker 1: and that they're going to know a lot more than
0:19
Speaker 1: me and potentially you even.
0:22
Speaker 2: Look, I've done a little bit of research. When I
0:24
Speaker 2: say a little bit, a lot into doctor Gollie. He's
0:26
Speaker 2: a guest for today and just on every single level,
0:30
Speaker 2: he's better than us.
0:31
Speaker 1: I know, he's gorgeous, soothing, look at skin. He's such
0:35
Speaker 1: a soothing tone.
0:36
Speaker 2: His voice is just angelic. And I think in the
0:40
Speaker 2: hierarchy of jobs, if you're a pediatrician, you just that's like,
0:43
Speaker 2: does it get any better? I don't think so.
0:45
Speaker 1: Especially he's dedicated his whole life to the cause, which
0:48
Speaker 1: is sleep settling and a broad range of pediatrics.
0:52
Speaker 2: I think if my wife, heaven forbid, was to have
0:55
Speaker 2: an affair with anyone doctor, I'd be like, I get.
0:58
Speaker 1: It, as long as he gets to move in.
1:01
Speaker 2: But he spent in the last two decades as a pediatrician,
1:03
Speaker 2: in the last decade helping families settle their babies to sleep.
1:07
Speaker 1: He's also a data three age nine, eleven and thirteen,
1:10
Speaker 1: so you know.
1:11
Speaker 3: He's got the good information.
1:13
Speaker 2: It's a bit like when you meet a physio and
1:15
Speaker 2: you just like constantly hand them about the little niggles
1:17
Speaker 2: that you.
1:18
Speaker 1: Have, like I've had the same ones.
1:19
Speaker 2: I've got all the parenting niggles that I need to
1:21
Speaker 2: get his advice.
1:22
Speaker 1: On before we get into it. This episode is brought
1:24
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1:34
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Speaker 1: dot com, dot you or come in store for a chat.
1:49
Speaker 2: Let's get into it. Welcome back to Three Doting Dads.
1:52
Speaker 3: I am Maddie, Jay, I'm Ash and I'm doctor Golly.
1:55
Speaker 2: And this is a podcast all about parenting.
1:58
Speaker 3: It is the good, it is the bad, and the relatable.
2:01
Speaker 2: And this is one of the few times that we
2:04
Speaker 2: say prepare yourself advice we'll be given, Doctor Golly. We
2:09
Speaker 2: don't give advice. We would never dream of it.
2:11
Speaker 1: We don't.
2:12
Speaker 2: You are one of the I mean even before we recorded,
2:15
Speaker 2: I was.
2:15
Speaker 1: Like, just tell me everything you know. I was like,
2:18
Speaker 1: what's this? Should be worried about this on my leg?
2:20
Speaker 1: Get all the information?
2:21
Speaker 2: I was like, upside down, you're a wealth of knowledge.
2:24
Speaker 3: But you know what, I gained so much knowledge from
2:27
Speaker 3: becoming a parent. So people used to say, oh, you're
2:29
Speaker 3: a pediatrician, you know everything. The best way to prepare
2:33
Speaker 3: to be a pediatrician is to have your own kids, so.
2:35
Speaker 1: They go kid first, then become adapted.
2:38
Speaker 3: That's just it should be easy.
2:39
Speaker 2: When you're they should be like, you know, do you
2:42
Speaker 2: have your degree?
2:42
Speaker 3: Yes?
2:43
Speaker 2: Are you a parent?
2:43
Speaker 1: Nor?
2:45
Speaker 3: Come back?
2:45
Speaker 1: Come back first and then a couple of kids, and
2:47
Speaker 1: then come back.
2:48
Speaker 2: We are going to speak to you about your your
2:50
Speaker 2: medical expertise.
2:52
Speaker 1: Before we do that, we like to get to know
2:54
Speaker 1: the guest a little bit and understand. Do you recall
2:57
Speaker 1: the most amount of trouble you got into as a child?
3:00
Speaker 3: Ah? Yes, And it was one. So my mum was
3:05
Speaker 3: a teacher at the school that I went to in
3:07
Speaker 3: primary school, which meant I had to always be on
3:09
Speaker 3: my best behavior because everything will get back to her.
3:12
Speaker 3: And it helped that. I was like a teacher's pet
3:14
Speaker 3: and a bit of a nerd as well.
3:15
Speaker 2: Was she like in your classroom?
3:17
Speaker 3: No, she wasn't allowed to teach me. She wanted to,
3:19
Speaker 3: but she wasn't. I think so. So this one time
3:24
Speaker 3: we had a swimming gala and I was walking past
3:27
Speaker 3: the head of sport and I thought, how funny would
3:29
Speaker 3: that be if he went for a swim. It wasn't that.
3:34
Speaker 3: I mean, I thought it was funny.
3:36
Speaker 1: Keep us did you just nudge you?
3:39
Speaker 3: It was? It was a hip and shoulder, Oh my gosh. Yeah,
3:43
Speaker 3: so no one else found it funny. Were you Where
3:47
Speaker 3: were you at the time?
3:48
Speaker 2: Sorry, so roughly? How old were you when this happened?
3:51
Speaker 3: Oh we're talking nine?
3:52
Speaker 2: Okay, so that's like on the cusp of probably.
3:55
Speaker 3: Knowing that that was with the life of crime starts? Yeah, certainly,
3:59
Speaker 3: Well thankfully did there?
4:00
Speaker 1: Oh good?
4:00
Speaker 3: Yeah?
4:01
Speaker 2: Your mom's like, where's where's my young boy?
4:04
Speaker 1: Did you get any attendent or anything?
4:05
Speaker 3: Like? Everyone was just shocked, and it was do we
4:09
Speaker 3: discipline him or do we join in the humor? And
4:11
Speaker 3: luckily the sports teacher joined in the human So it
4:15
Speaker 3: was I mean, I was appropriately reprimanded.
4:19
Speaker 2: I could always play the I tripped.
4:21
Speaker 3: It was an accident three meters away.
4:24
Speaker 1: I tripped and shoultag you into the water. I don't
4:26
Speaker 1: know what happened then.
4:28
Speaker 2: I don't know if that's a male thing, just when
4:29
Speaker 2: people are standing at.
4:30
Speaker 1: The edge of a large body of water.
4:33
Speaker 3: It's an imitation.
4:34
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, it's not our fault, it's instinct.
4:37
Speaker 1: I think it's the victim's fault.
4:43
Speaker 3: No comment.
4:43
Speaker 1: Seriously, step away from the pool.
4:46
Speaker 2: It won't happen, Doctor Gollie. I I'm intrigued to know
4:49
Speaker 2: what came first. And also do I call you a
4:52
Speaker 2: Is it a pediatric cardiologist?
4:55
Speaker 3: No? No, So I had a big sliding doors moment
4:58
Speaker 3: when I was in my training. I was on the
5:00
Speaker 3: way to becoming a pediatric cardiologist, so specializing in hearts
5:04
Speaker 3: with kids.
5:05
Speaker 2: That sounds.
5:07
Speaker 1: Throw this out because all the questions about heart.
5:10
Speaker 3: I then did this thing called becoming a dad. So
5:14
Speaker 3: during my cardiology training, I became a dad, and let's
5:18
Speaker 3: just say, my entire world crumbled fell apart in not
5:22
Speaker 3: a great way, and everything shifted. So I was on
5:26
Speaker 3: the path to become a pediatric cardiologist and then had
5:29
Speaker 3: this experience of a very unsettled baby and realized that
5:32
Speaker 3: it was not really being addressed by pediatricians very commonly.
5:38
Speaker 3: I didn't think it was being done very well, and
5:40
Speaker 3: so I just completely pivoted my career and unintentionally did
5:44
Speaker 3: a deep dive into this space of unsettled babies and
5:48
Speaker 3: the why and what you can do about it, and
5:51
Speaker 3: that flows onto sleep, and then, of course we're not
5:54
Speaker 3: talking about baby sleep. There's toddles sleep and adolescent sleep,
5:58
Speaker 3: and then adults sleep. Of course, I'm not a sleep specialist,
6:01
Speaker 3: but I definitely focus on the unsettled baby. And then
6:06
Speaker 3: it has fallen effects.
6:08
Speaker 2: Gosh, every parent you must meet, they must at a
6:11
Speaker 2: social event, just be like, tell me fucking everything. Yeah,
6:14
Speaker 2: but why did you want to get into pediatrics.
6:16
Speaker 3: I had this problem when I did medicine that I
6:19
Speaker 3: loved every job that I did. So when you are training,
6:22
Speaker 3: you spend a few weeks in this area and a
6:24
Speaker 3: few weeks in that area, and then you become a
6:25
Speaker 3: doctor and you spend six weeks as a junior in
6:29
Speaker 3: gastrientrology and nine weeks in neurosurgery, and you do everything,
6:33
Speaker 3: which is a really nice way to get exposure, and
6:34
Speaker 3: you sort of get a taste and you say, oh,
6:36
Speaker 3: I like that or I like that person, I want
6:38
Speaker 3: to emulate them. I loved everything that I did. I
6:40
Speaker 3: wanted to be everything that I did, which made it
6:43
Speaker 3: really hard to choose. And then I had a pediatric rotation,
6:47
Speaker 3: and then I got it.
6:48
Speaker 1: Can you be a doctor of everything?
6:50
Speaker 3: Look at general practitioner A GP covers everything. I think
6:53
Speaker 3: that's one of the hardest jobs in the world. But
6:56
Speaker 3: when I stepped into pediatrics, I realized that that was
6:59
Speaker 3: exact exactly where I wanted to be. I loved it.
7:02
Speaker 3: I loved the people.
7:04
Speaker 1: Love.
7:04
Speaker 3: You're dealing with two patients all the time. You know,
7:07
Speaker 3: there's the patient and the parent. There's this into play
7:10
Speaker 3: that's really fascinating and challenging and it's enthralling, and you
7:14
Speaker 3: can make a difference to an entire family unit when
7:18
Speaker 3: you fix a problem. Very true, it's amazing. It really
7:22
Speaker 3: is amazing. And also just the people you work with,
7:23
Speaker 3: the nurses, the doctors, the allied health, the orderlies. Everyone.
7:28
Speaker 3: In a children's hospital, you can't be a grump. I mean,
7:32
Speaker 3: go to an adult hospital and it's a pretty tense.
7:36
Speaker 1: Are not a happy place majority of the time.
7:38
Speaker 3: Yeah, go to the children's hospital in any state in
7:40
Speaker 3: any country, and it's like everyone's trying to be fun.
7:43
Speaker 3: Everyone's trying to be like, everyone's trying to counter the
7:46
Speaker 3: difficult realities we're dealing with. So it's a pretty good mood.
7:49
Speaker 3: It's a good environment. And people often say, how can
7:51
Speaker 3: you work with sick kids? It's actually the opposite. It's
7:54
Speaker 3: much more fun and you'll be more silly. And you
7:57
Speaker 3: walk into a room, I mean, a ward round on
8:00
Speaker 3: elderly patients or adults not so much fun. It's stinky too,
8:05
Speaker 3: and you can't it doesn't look good to blow bubbles
8:08
Speaker 3: in the room. Yeah, it doesn't work.
8:09
Speaker 2: I wonder if those adult patients are like, I just
8:11
Speaker 2: want to bubble.
8:13
Speaker 1: Just send or something.
8:15
Speaker 3: They really do. And that's the funny thing. They've done
8:17
Speaker 3: studies on this actually where they've brought clown doctors into
8:20
Speaker 3: adult and you know everyone, Yeah, people discharge home.
8:23
Speaker 1: It's a miracle.
8:24
Speaker 3: It is go figure fun. Yeah.
8:26
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's interesting, like because I'm probably one of those
8:29
Speaker 1: people that think, oh, I could never work with kids
8:31
Speaker 1: because I would just feel feel for how innocent they are.
8:34
Speaker 1: But I suppose your vision there is it's actually really
8:37
Speaker 1: fun and I get to like.
8:38
Speaker 3: And the best part is that the kids don't wallow.
8:42
Speaker 3: So if you've got an adult who feels bad for
8:44
Speaker 3: whatever symptom, whatever reason, and you remove their symptom with
8:48
Speaker 3: pain relief or nausea relief, whatever it is, they still
8:50
Speaker 3: they're grumpy. Right, they're in hospital. They're not happy. If
8:53
Speaker 3: you take a kid and you give them fifteen seconds
8:56
Speaker 3: of feeling good, they are going to run. Yeah, they
8:59
Speaker 3: don't sit in the mad They just they want to
9:01
Speaker 3: be happy. Give them an opportunity, take away their symptoms
9:04
Speaker 3: and they are happy. And there's there's no better environment
9:06
Speaker 3: than that. Like, that's a great way to live your life.
9:08
Speaker 2: But also I think it's one of those professions where
9:11
Speaker 2: if you're at a party and someone's like, what do
9:12
Speaker 2: you do? It is just that's top of the food change.
9:15
Speaker 1: All of a sudden. Kids. He was like, it's my birthday.
9:18
Speaker 1: Shut up for me. There was a doctor here, doctor
9:22
Speaker 1: of children.
9:23
Speaker 2: That and like an astronaut, I think.
9:26
Speaker 1: A doctor astronaut.
9:28
Speaker 3: Can you fly? I'll look into it.
9:31
Speaker 1: That's next, next, next, the moon.
9:38
Speaker 2: Sometimes I'd love to just steal some of your scrubs
9:40
Speaker 2: and just walk the streets.
9:44
Speaker 3: Do it. Do it. Then you have to say I'm
9:46
Speaker 3: a doctor stolen and start helping people.
9:48
Speaker 2: I know people like we know you're a podcast. So
9:52
Speaker 2: then you must have thought when you were deciding to
9:55
Speaker 2: have kids, You're like, well, this is you know, I've
9:57
Speaker 2: had so much exposure to children, this will be a
9:59
Speaker 2: walk in the I thought.
10:01
Speaker 3: So I was wrong. I also had nieces and nephews,
10:04
Speaker 3: so I'm the youngest of three boys, so I was
10:06
Speaker 3: around kids for a very long time. I thought, I
10:08
Speaker 3: know everything, this will be fine. Like I really wanted
10:11
Speaker 3: kids for a long time, and then I also had
10:14
Speaker 3: this I don't know if it was an external pressure
10:16
Speaker 3: or just my own sort of assumed pressure. But I
10:19
Speaker 3: thought that I was meant to be good at it.
10:20
Speaker 3: I thought that I was meant to know everything and
10:22
Speaker 3: solve everything. And as you said, walk in the park.
10:24
Speaker 3: And when my daughter arrived, it was quite the opposite
10:28
Speaker 3: of a walk in the park. It was like a
10:30
Speaker 3: bad somersault through a tornado. She was unsettled. She was
10:35
Speaker 3: totally healthy and remains so she's now thirteen. But she
10:40
Speaker 3: was the definition of colic. Now, it's interesting in pediatrics,
10:43
Speaker 3: you don't really learn about colic that much. I mean,
10:47
Speaker 3: you know what it is, yeah, but you don't spend
10:49
Speaker 3: too much time being trained in it or working with
10:52
Speaker 3: it because the baby's not quote unquote sick. So it's
10:56
Speaker 3: a bit situational. It's a bit it's a life threatening,
10:59
Speaker 3: it's not life threat. But what I discovered the really
11:02
Speaker 3: hard way is that it is completely life changing in
11:06
Speaker 3: a really bad way. And anyone who's been through the
11:09
Speaker 3: process of a child with colic understand like it is
11:12
Speaker 3: quite literally a form of torture. Oh the poor thing.
11:15
Speaker 1: I just remember the screams like you were too, like
11:18
Speaker 1: that but specific gurgly screen.
11:21
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's awful. And so everything for me just fell apart,
11:25
Speaker 3: like everything that I thought I was everything I wanted
11:28
Speaker 3: to be. I felt guilty for my daughter. I felt
11:31
Speaker 3: guilty for my wife. What was meant to be the
11:33
Speaker 3: greatest time. I built this up to be the greatest thing.
11:36
Speaker 3: I was so excited to be a dad, and then
11:39
Speaker 3: it arrived and I wasn't and I couldn't talk about
11:42
Speaker 3: it because I was meant to be the opposite. And
11:44
Speaker 3: I was training at the same time with work, I
11:48
Speaker 3: was working night shifts. You know, it all hits. You know,
11:50
Speaker 3: you've got your mortgage and work pressure and baby arrives
11:54
Speaker 3: and everything, and I'm not woe is me, It was
11:57
Speaker 3: just my experience was not what I thought it would be.
12:00
Speaker 3: It was really really painful. But now I look back
12:03
Speaker 3: and say it was the greatest thing that ever happened
12:06
Speaker 3: to me, because it did it changed the trajectory of
12:08
Speaker 3: my career, because I turned around and said, this can't
12:12
Speaker 3: be normal, this can't be dismissed. Because I was dismissed,
12:17
Speaker 3: I went to see a pediatrician.
12:18
Speaker 1: As a training.
12:20
Speaker 3: In number one rule, don't look after your kids. So
12:22
Speaker 3: I was dismissed.
12:23
Speaker 2: Can I ask, because I feel like it's thrown around
12:25
Speaker 2: a lot, what were your symptoms for your daughter to
12:29
Speaker 2: think that something's not right?
12:30
Speaker 3: And it could be constantly unsettled, unable to be put down,
12:34
Speaker 3: not sleeping, long stretches, feeding frequently, just miserable, just miserable,
12:40
Speaker 3: like you said that cry that you know, it's like
12:43
Speaker 3: nails on.
12:43
Speaker 1: A chalkboard, and to help them, Yeah.
12:46
Speaker 3: And nothing works, and you get advice and you go
12:48
Speaker 3: down that path and something improves, and then eight hours
12:51
Speaker 3: later we're back. So you change tach and everyone you know,
12:55
Speaker 3: this person tells you it's this reason. So you try
12:57
Speaker 3: that and then someone else, Oh, you've got to go
12:59
Speaker 3: and see that person try everything. And so what I
13:01
Speaker 3: did is I did a deep dive into this concept
13:05
Speaker 3: called the unsettled baby. And I don't want to say
13:08
Speaker 3: you have to go through it to be able to
13:10
Speaker 3: manage it, but boy does it help. It really helps
13:13
Speaker 3: because you can relate.
13:15
Speaker 1: I know, the relating like us now doing this for
13:18
Speaker 1: a job where we do nothing but talk about parenting
13:20
Speaker 1: all sorts of stuff, and then talking to my friends
13:22
Speaker 1: who might have a newborn or something like that, or.
13:24
Speaker 2: Someone who's got a pet, and like, I'm also tired,
13:28
Speaker 2: but it's.
13:28
Speaker 1: Like it's for me. It's nice when I can provide
13:32
Speaker 1: some even just some reassurance. But like Oscarar's like that.
13:35
Speaker 3: Yeah relatable. Yeah yeah.
13:37
Speaker 2: So what was the reaction when you first went to
13:39
Speaker 2: a pediatrician the baby's healthy?
13:41
Speaker 3: It was just very and you know, he's an amazing
13:45
Speaker 3: now tired and amazing pediatrician. Amazing. He was a mentor
13:48
Speaker 3: of mine and I love and respect him. It was
13:51
Speaker 3: very It was very simple, your child's either sick or
13:54
Speaker 3: your child's well. Your experience of the early childhood period
13:59
Speaker 3: was not raised like are you having fun? Are you
14:02
Speaker 3: enjoying it. Are you getting that it's not important your
14:04
Speaker 3: child's sick or your child's well, that was it. Now,
14:07
Speaker 3: that's okay, that's fine, But I said, that's not me.
14:11
Speaker 3: That's not how I want to practice. So if you
14:13
Speaker 3: come to me with a six week old baby, parents
14:16
Speaker 3: often remark that they're quite surprised how quick the baby
14:19
Speaker 3: bit is. The examination, the fixing, the problems, sorting that out,
14:23
Speaker 3: there's so much smaller, exactly proper. And then I turn
14:28
Speaker 3: to the parents and it's like, okay, let's begin. This
14:31
Speaker 3: is where we start, because I want to know what
14:32
Speaker 3: and it's not you know, wishy washy, you know how
14:35
Speaker 3: you're feeling. Maybe it gets to that point, but for me,
14:38
Speaker 3: it's about the parent's experience, because in some ways it's
14:41
Speaker 3: all about the parent experience. If you come to me
14:44
Speaker 3: and you say, my baby feeds every three hours and
14:47
Speaker 3: you're very happy with that, you win. Nothing needs to change.
14:51
Speaker 3: But if you say, my baby's feeding every three hours
14:53
Speaker 3: and I'm about to break, then we can fix that. Yeah.
14:57
Speaker 1: Because also as well, like they pick.
14:59
Speaker 3: Up on you as well, oh yes.
15:01
Speaker 1: And like do you have any experience where you think,
15:03
Speaker 1: like having a conversation with the parents that you might
15:06
Speaker 1: think it's hard to say to someone, Hey, they're picking
15:09
Speaker 1: up on your energy too.
15:11
Speaker 3: I have this conversation every day, Oh really, and every
15:13
Speaker 3: day it's hard and it never gets easier and it's delicate. Yeah,
15:17
Speaker 3: and I'm in a privileged position to be having these
15:20
Speaker 3: conversations and it's hard. Sometimes you can't say that the
15:23
Speaker 3: first time you meet someone. Yeah, you have to establish
15:25
Speaker 3: a relationship. But ultimately, what I want parents to understand
15:29
Speaker 3: is that babies drink more than milk. Well, they drink
15:32
Speaker 3: every emotion that you bring to that.
15:34
Speaker 1: I was like water chilled, gave me chills. Yeah, you
15:38
Speaker 1: got literally that little could.
15:42
Speaker 3: So if you are anxious, if you are worried, if
15:44
Speaker 3: you are second guessing yourself, and you go to feed
15:47
Speaker 3: that baby, you think about it, You're a baby, completely
15:50
Speaker 3: helpless and being held by someone who is clearly telling
15:54
Speaker 3: you I don't have this. I'm not confident with this.
15:58
Speaker 3: That's not They're not going to settle. No, no, you
16:00
Speaker 3: wouldn't settle. You. Imagine going on an aeroplane where the
16:02
Speaker 3: pilot gets up and says, listen, guys, first time, all right,
16:06
Speaker 3: I don't want to be here. Yeah, I don't know
16:08
Speaker 3: what that button does, you wouldn't feel comfortable. That's why
16:13
Speaker 3: I say I spent so much time dealing with parents,
16:16
Speaker 3: because the more I can empower them and calm them
16:19
Speaker 3: and give them confidence, the baby then drinks that up,
16:22
Speaker 3: and the baby responds with being more settled, and then
16:26
Speaker 3: that feeds back with a positive loop.
16:28
Speaker 2: So who empowered you then in your situation?
16:31
Speaker 3: Lots of people, Lots and lots of people. There are
16:34
Speaker 3: lots of people who did the opposite as well, not intentionally.
16:37
Speaker 3: But I got a lot of advice from my mum,
16:40
Speaker 3: I got a lot of advice from midwives, a lot
16:44
Speaker 3: of advice from family, friends, cousins, you know, lots and
16:47
Speaker 3: lots of people. Community. You know, we live in concentric
16:51
Speaker 3: circles of family, community, et cetera. So when you can
16:54
Speaker 3: lean on people, friends, family, neighbors, whatever it may be,
16:57
Speaker 3: it's invaluable.
16:58
Speaker 2: Is there anything that really helped with your daughter?
17:01
Speaker 3: The thing that was making my daughter unsettled was the
17:04
Speaker 3: fact that she wasn't burping.
17:05
Speaker 1: Yes, forgot about the burpee.
17:08
Speaker 3: Yeah it comes back, doesn't it. So burping was her
17:13
Speaker 3: big That was her achilles. And when we learned how
17:17
Speaker 3: to wind her and changed our approach and changed our mentality.
17:21
Speaker 3: It changed everything. And then we took that learning through
17:25
Speaker 3: our experience with our son and then with our third
17:28
Speaker 3: child and it changed a lot. So that was you know,
17:30
Speaker 3: people say, how do you settle a baby? Well, it's
17:33
Speaker 3: like there are too many variables. It's very specific. There's
17:36
Speaker 3: lots of little things and it's baby specific. So for me,
17:40
Speaker 3: it was winding. That was my focus.
17:42
Speaker 1: You mentioned before. It's like the confidence okay for these
17:46
Speaker 1: parents and it's not fair that that you have a baby,
17:50
Speaker 1: and then we as a society, especially mums, they put
17:53
Speaker 1: so much expectation on themselves and then it's not going
17:56
Speaker 1: right because they've got colleagu or unsettled.
17:58
Speaker 3: And I can.
17:59
Speaker 1: Imagine that that compiling. So I'm sure that you probably
18:03
Speaker 1: get a lot of like mums in there and then
18:05
Speaker 1: you're like get to the point where you're like you
18:07
Speaker 1: actually need a bit of confidence here.
18:10
Speaker 3: You're right, everything you say is right. Society is working
18:12
Speaker 3: against us. Yeah, as social media shows you. I mean,
18:16
Speaker 3: you know, all this social media shows you all the
18:19
Speaker 3: pretty parts right and not the rough bits, and mums
18:23
Speaker 3: are under extraordinary pressure. I don't even I mean, I
18:26
Speaker 3: don't need to tell you, guys, how much on a
18:29
Speaker 3: back foot women are when the baby arrives. Now, keep
18:33
Speaker 3: a human alive and recover from delivery or you know,
18:37
Speaker 3: however you delivered. Make it look like you're having fun, yes,
18:40
Speaker 3: and look good while you're doing it, and you know,
18:42
Speaker 3: get your body back and.
18:44
Speaker 1: Everyone else is doing this, so you should be doing
18:46
Speaker 1: that too.
18:46
Speaker 3: Look at this celebrity. You can do that, and it's like,
18:48
Speaker 3: it's a crazy amount of pressure. You also have to
18:51
Speaker 3: have the perfect baby, so if you don't have one,
18:54
Speaker 3: in bitter look like you have one. It's just it's
18:56
Speaker 3: crazy amount of pressure. Dads are under increasing pressure as well.
19:00
Speaker 3: All of this. What it does is it turns the
19:02
Speaker 3: volume down on this innate parental instinct that we all have.
19:08
Speaker 3: It's all in built, and we used to as a
19:11
Speaker 3: species be much better at listening and acting on it.
19:15
Speaker 3: But it's getting harder and harder. So what I try
19:17
Speaker 3: to do when I talk about empowering a pair and
19:19
Speaker 3: I try to turn the volume up. So if someone
19:22
Speaker 3: walks into my room, I don't care if you bring
19:24
Speaker 3: me a nine year old or a nineteen year old.
19:27
Speaker 3: One of the first questions I ask is, what do
19:30
Speaker 3: you think is wrong.
19:31
Speaker 2: Yeah, I hate to. Whilst you're in the chair, it'd
19:35
Speaker 2: be like, I've actually got a problem that I'd like
19:37
Speaker 2: you to try and diagnose, but while you're here it
19:40
Speaker 2: would be.
19:40
Speaker 3: Real is it a rat? Do we need to?
19:43
Speaker 2: I always think back to Lola when she was a newborn,
19:47
Speaker 2: and I was very lucky that Marley was an easy newborn.
19:51
Speaker 2: It was great. Laura and I used to look at
19:53
Speaker 2: each other and be like, why do people complain so much?
19:55
Speaker 2: Because you know where a trap mat right, And then
19:59
Speaker 2: Lola came up long and just really flipped it on
20:02
Speaker 2: its head. It was one of the darkest parts of
20:06
Speaker 2: our parenting lives. We look back and we're like, that
20:09
Speaker 2: was hell. And I love Lola so much and it
20:11
Speaker 2: gives me to say that that phase of life was
20:14
Speaker 2: so hard because of her, But unfortunately it was. And
20:17
Speaker 2: we always kind of sometimes look back and think we
20:21
Speaker 2: don't know what it was was a was a b
20:23
Speaker 2: We think she had reflux, but to paint a picture,
20:28
Speaker 2: she really struggled with feeding as a newborn right up
20:31
Speaker 2: until three four months, just couldn't get her to settle. Afterwards,
20:35
Speaker 2: would only ever sleep on Laura's chest. I couldn't settle
20:38
Speaker 2: her myself and I can play you that maybe triggering
20:42
Speaker 2: for any parents who are listening to. Laura and I
20:46
Speaker 2: used to get anxiety at nighttime because we knew we
20:49
Speaker 2: were just up for an evening of no sleep at all,
20:53
Speaker 2: because she Lola would sleep maybe an hour hour and
20:55
Speaker 2: a half, then she would wake up, try and fit her,
20:58
Speaker 2: she wouldn't feed. She would then screw for an hour,
21:01
Speaker 2: and then she got back to sleep, and that was
21:03
Speaker 2: just the cycle until seven in the morning. And so
21:06
Speaker 2: it was like even talking about now, I'm like, man,
21:08
Speaker 2: I'm going back into those trends.
21:09
Speaker 1: That pre bed anxiety. I felt that when you said that, and.
21:13
Speaker 3: It means you can't sleep.
21:15
Speaker 1: Yeah, so like it's similar, like exact same scenario is
21:18
Speaker 1: what Matt's talking about. I had it first and then
21:20
Speaker 1: a better one second.
21:22
Speaker 3: But yeah, that I knew for going for the same
21:24
Speaker 3: a lot. I hear that every day people say I
21:26
Speaker 3: can't do this again.
21:27
Speaker 1: It took a little while just get me on board
21:29
Speaker 1: because yeah, like I just remember the pre bed chat,
21:32
Speaker 1: like all right, you got you ready for this, I'm
21:35
Speaker 1: going to play.
21:36
Speaker 2: You the cry Okay, I recorded it. This was taken
21:40
Speaker 2: back in March twenty twenty one at two am. This
21:43
Speaker 2: is what she sounded like. I don't know if it
21:45
Speaker 2: helps for you to diagnose what she may have had.
21:58
Speaker 3: You know, it's used as a form of torture. No noise. Yeah,
22:02
Speaker 3: in the military, they use it sleep deprivation and the
22:05
Speaker 3: sound of babies crying, because we're actually built as humans
22:08
Speaker 3: to not tolerate that sound as a protective mechanism. Right,
22:12
Speaker 3: So when you play that like you and I, in fact,
22:15
Speaker 3: we all did, we all instinctively.
22:17
Speaker 1: To be honest, I wasn't expecting to be so loud,
22:19
Speaker 1: and I was like, oh, but then once you hear that,
22:22
Speaker 1: I could never settle her.
22:24
Speaker 3: I just couldn't, So you can't in It always reminds
22:28
Speaker 3: me of this episode of The Simpsons. I watch a
22:30
Speaker 3: lot of Simpsons growing up. Do you know Uncle Uncle
22:33
Speaker 3: Herb who made the baby translator. Yeah, that's right, y
22:37
Speaker 3: Iver destroyed his car business, so I invented a baby translator.
22:40
Speaker 3: I wish I could make one. They don't exist. All
22:43
Speaker 3: you can glean from that is that I'm unsettled. I'm unhappy,
22:46
Speaker 3: And you know, I hate the word colic. I hate
22:49
Speaker 3: it because it's an adjective. It's useless.
22:52
Speaker 2: Right.
22:53
Speaker 3: It's like you being in pain going to an emergency
22:56
Speaker 3: department and they turn around you and say, you've got pain,
23:00
Speaker 3: Thank you, excellent, Yes see you tomorrow. So colic is
23:06
Speaker 3: just an adjective. It doesn't help. So when someone says, oh,
23:08
Speaker 3: your baby's got collic, is okay, great? I knew that.
23:11
Speaker 3: That's why I'm here. What are we going to do
23:13
Speaker 3: about it? So there's no point in telling someone their
23:16
Speaker 3: baby has colic if you're not going to look for
23:18
Speaker 3: the reason why and then solve it. So I would
23:21
Speaker 3: have loved to have sunk my teeth into this scenario
23:25
Speaker 3: when she was like four or five weeks old. So
23:28
Speaker 3: there are so many possible reasons as to why. I
23:31
Speaker 3: can tell you that the most commonly missed thing is
23:34
Speaker 3: that trapped wind problem, which was the issue for my daughters,
23:38
Speaker 3: my daughters and my son. The second most common scenario
23:41
Speaker 3: is that people get diagnosed with reflex. Now, reflex is
23:45
Speaker 3: this big topic and there's a long history as to
23:48
Speaker 3: why people talk about reflex, and it's got to do
23:50
Speaker 3: with pharmaceutical companies pushing product to GPS in the eighties. Basically,
23:54
Speaker 3: babies can bring things up. They've got a very lax sphincter.
23:57
Speaker 3: It's like the lead on the top of a food process.
24:00
Speaker 3: So smoothe maker and things come up. And because they
24:03
Speaker 3: often drink and then lie flat, I mean same thing
24:07
Speaker 3: would happen for us if we drank a huge amount
24:10
Speaker 3: of milk and then lay flat. You wouldn't feel great
24:12
Speaker 3: and it could come up if you had a lax sphincter.
24:15
Speaker 3: So people say, well, that must be it, but it's not.
24:18
Speaker 3: In fact, it's very uncommon to have true gastrosophageal reflex disease.
24:23
Speaker 3: It's quite uncommon. And the big problem is that if
24:27
Speaker 3: you go and see someone GP, pediutrician, maternal nurse, anyone,
24:31
Speaker 3: anyone at all, and you present them with an unsettled
24:34
Speaker 3: baby and they don't know why, it's very easy to say,
24:37
Speaker 3: your baby's got colic or your baby's got reflex. Oh
24:40
Speaker 3: but my baby's not spitting up. Oh okay, we'll call
24:42
Speaker 3: it silent reflex.
24:43
Speaker 1: Then that's what happened to me.
24:46
Speaker 3: Yeah, So that infuriates me because what that means is
24:49
Speaker 3: these are two they're just they're rubbish terms. Well, reflex
24:53
Speaker 3: is not rubbish, that happens, but not commonly in this situation.
24:57
Speaker 3: The word reflex is very throwaway, very right. I see
25:00
Speaker 3: it as a euphemism for I don't know what's wrong
25:02
Speaker 3: with your baby.
25:02
Speaker 1: You gave us the medical term for reflux, and it's like,
25:05
Speaker 1: my baby didn't have that.
25:07
Speaker 3: So I mean, these babies true reflux disease. They're vomiting
25:10
Speaker 3: blood that they can't put on weight like, they're very,
25:12
Speaker 3: very unwell. And these are the babies I admit to hospital.
25:16
Speaker 3: I don't send them home with a little bit of medicine.
25:18
Speaker 3: And no surprise that so many people who come to
25:21
Speaker 3: me at the six week eight week mark say we
25:24
Speaker 3: tried that medicine, it didn't work, or we tried it
25:26
Speaker 3: made things worse. Is it gripe gripe order, Yeah, there's
25:30
Speaker 3: less momental semethic cone. There's so many things that people try,
25:34
Speaker 3: but if you don't get down to the reason or
25:38
Speaker 3: group of reasons, you won't find a solution.
25:40
Speaker 2: Tell me if there's a long list, that would be
25:44
Speaker 2: far too time consuming to try and go through. But
25:46
Speaker 2: you know, is it like the checklist of it could
25:48
Speaker 2: be gas, it could be ensurping it.
25:50
Speaker 3: Yeah, is it? That's my job, That's what I would
25:53
Speaker 3: do in a consult is hone in on every single
25:55
Speaker 3: one of those, and it's often not one thing, it's
25:59
Speaker 3: a few things, and you tweak three or four things
26:02
Speaker 3: and then everything changes overnight.
26:04
Speaker 2: It really annoys me so fucking much that I'm like,
26:07
Speaker 2: we went through hell, Like it really almost broke me
26:10
Speaker 2: and Laura to the point where we never wanted to
26:11
Speaker 2: have more kids. And I think if only we had
26:13
Speaker 2: found it someone decent at the time, instead of just
26:16
Speaker 2: suffering and being dismissed by other doctors.
26:19
Speaker 3: It just doesn't have to be like that.
26:21
Speaker 1: Yeah, Like we had a similar situation and looking back now,
26:25
Speaker 1: all these things that are coming up, like you know,
26:27
Speaker 1: reflux throwaway, but yeah, you're right, pretty much put my.
26:31
Speaker 3: Wife in a mental hospital.
26:32
Speaker 1: That's what it did, the exact same situation, and it
26:35
Speaker 1: was silent reflux. I remember, I remember the first day
26:38
Speaker 1: going into this. It was like a mother and child
26:41
Speaker 1: ward section of this particular mental hospital. They were amazing,
26:44
Speaker 1: and I remember walking in there with Oscar, who was
26:48
Speaker 1: this sounded exactly like that, And I remember they he
26:51
Speaker 1: was laying in that little clear bassinette thing. They turned
26:54
Speaker 1: him on his on his right side and put a
26:57
Speaker 1: rolled up towel on either side. Bang, he went to
26:59
Speaker 1: sleep and I was like what, and she was like, well,
27:03
Speaker 1: what's happening is it's like when he's us trying to sleep,
27:06
Speaker 1: he's getting uncomfortable. That's coming up, like you need to
27:09
Speaker 1: turn him on this particular angle.
27:11
Speaker 3: Slept like a baby.
27:13
Speaker 1: You slept like a proper baby.
27:15
Speaker 3: So that's the exact reason. And that's why the advice
27:17
Speaker 3: you get from the older generation is you've got to
27:20
Speaker 3: be really careful with that. She was quite an old midwife.
27:24
Speaker 3: The older generation is in our parents, we were slept
27:26
Speaker 3: on our stomachs. That's wrong. So when SIDS came in,
27:30
Speaker 3: sid's awareness and you know, red nose and all of
27:33
Speaker 3: this awareness, you back to sleep campaign. We saved out
27:37
Speaker 3: hundreds of thousands of lives over the years, Like it's
27:40
Speaker 3: been one of the most successful public health interventions of
27:43
Speaker 3: all times, just putting babies to sleep on their backs. Right. However,
27:47
Speaker 3: we replaced sids with colic and flatheads back of the head. Yeah,
27:55
Speaker 3: So those two things are very, very problematic in our generation,
27:59
Speaker 3: but not for our parents. So often people will come
28:03
Speaker 3: to me and a grandparent comes who might be helping
28:06
Speaker 3: or offering advice whatever, might even be an ex midwife.
28:09
Speaker 3: We never had these problems, you know that generation.
28:12
Speaker 1: Yes, they love throwing that out this Yes.
28:16
Speaker 3: You can tell them it's not the same world. It's
28:19
Speaker 3: a different society. So yes, you definitely want to replace sids,
28:23
Speaker 3: no question, But we then have to deal with these issues.
28:26
Speaker 2: Do you have this very hard question to try and answer?
28:29
Speaker 2: So I apologize for putting on the spot, but do
28:32
Speaker 2: you have a list of the most common mistakes parents
28:34
Speaker 2: make when it comes to sleep routines?
28:35
Speaker 3: Yeah? Absolutely, go on, how long do we have Just give.
28:38
Speaker 1: Us a couple of give us a couple of good
28:40
Speaker 1: ones to begin with.
28:41
Speaker 3: You've got to have the right idea, like you know,
28:44
Speaker 3: for me, a baby who is six weeks old and
28:48
Speaker 3: more than five kilograms can sleep through the night. But
28:51
Speaker 3: don't expect that to be seven pm to seven am,
28:54
Speaker 3: so it would be say, for example, eleven pm to
28:57
Speaker 3: seven am. So don't have a four week old and
29:02
Speaker 3: think you're a failure because they're not sleeping through the night.
29:04
Speaker 3: You've got to have the right expectation. That's the first thing,
29:07
Speaker 3: and age appropriate, development, appropriate target, and then try and
29:11
Speaker 3: meet it. The next thing is and it's not a mistake.
29:15
Speaker 3: It's parents are given a lot of bad advice. There's
29:17
Speaker 3: a lot of quote unquote sleep consultants, there's a lot
29:20
Speaker 3: of generational advice. There's a lot of neighbor told me,
29:23
Speaker 3: this workmate told me that.
29:24
Speaker 2: Is there anything that you hear that You're like, no.
29:26
Speaker 3: That's like reflex. It's reflux. I hear it all the time,
29:30
Speaker 3: and it's not. It's just so commonly misdiagnosed. And what
29:34
Speaker 3: it does is it stops you looking for the reason
29:38
Speaker 3: baby's got reflex. I've just got to write off the
29:40
Speaker 3: first six months. I hate that, is it?
29:42
Speaker 2: Because I think everyone's gold standard is their child sleeping
29:45
Speaker 2: through the night. Yes, I heard myself.
29:49
Speaker 1: On the grapevine.
29:50
Speaker 2: This is what I heard one that a common reason
29:54
Speaker 2: they don't sleep through the night is because they're hungry.
29:57
Speaker 2: So you need to try and feed them more solid
29:59
Speaker 2: It's like pop now eleven months. So she needs to
30:01
Speaker 2: have a decent amount of solids during the day and
30:04
Speaker 2: also as a last feed at like five point thirty,
30:06
Speaker 2: and if she's full, then she'll sleep to the night.
30:08
Speaker 2: Is that true?
30:09
Speaker 3: There is truth to that, but it's full of what
30:11
Speaker 3: So specifically they need to have a lot of protein,
30:15
Speaker 3: and you also don't want to have a huge amount
30:16
Speaker 3: of protein before bed, so you want to make the
30:18
Speaker 3: lunchtime protein serve as much as possible. But then there's
30:22
Speaker 3: so many other factors at play. Your two year old
30:24
Speaker 3: might be waking because it's cold at three in the morning.
30:28
Speaker 3: I mean, I'm from Melbourne. Three to four in the morning. Lord,
30:30
Speaker 3: a baby's waking up from being cold. It might be
30:34
Speaker 3: a one year old who's pushing molders Like you've got
30:36
Speaker 3: to think about this is what I mean about setting
30:38
Speaker 3: yourself up for success. You've got to know what to
30:41
Speaker 3: expect to what age. So bring me a five month
30:45
Speaker 3: old who used to sleep beautifully through the night, who's
30:47
Speaker 3: gone through the quote unquote. This is another thing that
30:49
Speaker 3: infuriates the four months sleep progression. Yeah, there is no
30:56
Speaker 3: I never use it. I hate it. I hate it
30:59
Speaker 3: because it doesn't need to happen, and because it's there's
31:02
Speaker 3: so much negative. It's very backwards, the word the thinking
31:05
Speaker 3: it's wrong. It's a progression that's happening. But if you
31:09
Speaker 3: don't read your baby, you're going to miss the signs.
31:12
Speaker 3: So most four four and a half month olds, they're
31:14
Speaker 3: hungry and then you read a book that says start
31:17
Speaker 3: solids at six months, so you're delaying, and you're actually
31:20
Speaker 3: delaying something that they're very loud. Clearly this is Homer's
31:25
Speaker 3: uncle Herb. I want solids and parents that's the most
31:29
Speaker 3: common thing I see at four or five, six months
31:31
Speaker 3: they're not giving solids when the baby's ready and asking
31:34
Speaker 3: for it.
31:34
Speaker 1: Yeah, because I mean the book could say yeah, the
31:36
Speaker 1: six months, but they're all my book. But they're all different, right,
31:40
Speaker 1: So I think that's another problem too.
31:42
Speaker 3: About upskilling the parent to read the child don't listen
31:46
Speaker 3: to me. Then the answer isn't four months. The answer
31:49
Speaker 3: is start looking for signs of readiness from four months,
31:53
Speaker 3: and your baby might show them at five. They might
31:54
Speaker 3: show them at three and a half months. Every baby
31:57
Speaker 3: is slightly different.
31:58
Speaker 2: Another question that I've also heard.
32:00
Speaker 1: You've got you you eat the ground Matthew.
32:03
Speaker 2: And I think it's partly because I'm in the thick
32:06
Speaker 2: of it with popping, but I heard that you shouldn't
32:09
Speaker 2: let a baby cry for an extended period. I saw
32:14
Speaker 2: something somewhere I cried out that it actually causes psychological
32:18
Speaker 2: long term damage.
32:19
Speaker 3: I think it causes damage to us as well. I
32:22
Speaker 3: don't use cry it out. I don't believe in it.
32:24
Speaker 3: It's not healthy. There are studies that show that, which
32:26
Speaker 3: is terrifying. And again, you might just be missing the
32:30
Speaker 3: reason for them crying in the first place. The whole
32:33
Speaker 3: concept of just let them exhaust themselves until they pass out.
32:36
Speaker 3: It doesn't seem very nice now you say it like that.
32:40
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, put I like what you said there, though,
32:44
Speaker 1: you kind of got to take a step back instead
32:45
Speaker 1: of just in the moment being like, they'll be fine, Yeah,
32:47
Speaker 1: take a step back to Okay, what's the reason Now?
32:50
Speaker 3: There is a balance. You're one hundred percent right, but
32:53
Speaker 3: sometimes there might just be a little bit of an objection.
32:56
Speaker 3: I don't really want to go to bed now, dad, Yeah,
32:59
Speaker 3: And then ninety seconds later, right, fine, I'll go to bed,
33:04
Speaker 3: so you can have It's not cry it out, it's
33:07
Speaker 3: more give them a moment, listen to the cry. So
33:10
Speaker 3: there are I lie before, there are some times when
33:12
Speaker 3: you can interpret the cry. So the cries that are
33:15
Speaker 3: sort of getting softer, or the gaps of silence are
33:18
Speaker 3: growing in between cries, those ones you can leave. That's
33:22
Speaker 3: what I call a de escalating cry. And if you've
33:24
Speaker 3: got one where you hear it and you know that's
33:27
Speaker 3: not going to stop, then don't wait ten minutes because.
33:30
Speaker 2: Sometimes when Poppy wakes, my initial reaction is like, oh,
33:33
Speaker 2: go get her, and I'm like, wait, am I going
33:35
Speaker 2: to give her this bad routine? As soon as she
33:37
Speaker 2: makes a noise, I'm in the room.
33:38
Speaker 1: Correct, And we did that.
33:42
Speaker 2: The routine that I fell into with my other children
33:46
Speaker 2: was that whenever they would wake up in the night,
33:48
Speaker 2: I would just give them a bottle because it would
33:50
Speaker 2: settle them. But then I had this awful situation where
33:54
Speaker 2: they would have six bottles in the night, yeah, and
33:59
Speaker 2: then they weren't eating. They wake up in the morning,
34:01
Speaker 2: they wouldn't have a bottle for a couple hours because
34:02
Speaker 2: they were like, I've.
34:03
Speaker 1: Just had to bed every second night I remember that.
34:06
Speaker 2: Is there any tips? And I know it's so circumstantial,
34:09
Speaker 2: but if you've got, say an eleven month old who's
34:12
Speaker 2: waking up, what is your tip to settle?
34:15
Speaker 3: Great question? Set yourself. The day determines the night. So again,
34:19
Speaker 3: give them all the tools they need during the day.
34:21
Speaker 3: Give them good sleep during the day. Good days sleep
34:24
Speaker 3: sets you up for good night sleep. Give them protein
34:26
Speaker 3: during the day. Make sure their sleep environment. So this
34:29
Speaker 3: is all the things you do before you get to bedtime.
34:32
Speaker 3: Their sleep environment is right? Is the room to light?
34:36
Speaker 3: Is the room too cold? Is their white noise playing?
34:38
Speaker 3: All the little things okay? And then when you put
34:42
Speaker 3: them to bed, are you putting them to bed too late?
34:44
Speaker 3: You putting to bed an overtired child who is not
34:47
Speaker 3: going to have good sleep architecture on the way, not
34:50
Speaker 3: going to be able to link sleep cycles. There are
34:51
Speaker 3: so many questions, and often when you just tweak those
34:54
Speaker 3: little things, the thing that parents are surprised by the
34:58
Speaker 3: most is that they actually don't need to do sleep training.
35:01
Speaker 3: Often sometimes yes, depends on the temperament of the child,
35:04
Speaker 3: but often you just change those things, and then when
35:07
Speaker 3: you put them to bed, they sleep through and you
35:09
Speaker 3: turn to your partner in the morning, did you get up? No?
35:11
Speaker 3: Did you? I thought you got the morning.
35:15
Speaker 1: It's funny parents. A lot of new parents do this.
35:17
Speaker 1: They go they get it right there one night and
35:20
Speaker 1: let's do exactly what we did last night, and then
35:23
Speaker 1: it goes wrong.
35:24
Speaker 2: The kids are like a badly built toy where the
35:26
Speaker 2: one day the battery runs out. The next time the
35:29
Speaker 2: lights aren't working, the wirings will sleep.
35:31
Speaker 1: It's riddle technical issues.
35:33
Speaker 3: And that's what you have to add in a little
35:35
Speaker 3: sprinkling of just you know what, shit happens. Yeah, not
35:38
Speaker 3: every day is the same. And the better your baseline,
35:41
Speaker 3: not only you have an increased tevor to deal with
35:44
Speaker 3: shit nights because teething happens, and sickness happens, and neighbor's
35:48
Speaker 3: dog barking happens. But if you've got a good baseline,
35:51
Speaker 3: you can deal with those little hurdles, and if your
35:53
Speaker 3: baby has good baseline sleep, you can deal with that
35:56
Speaker 3: illness or that disruption from a holiday and get straight
35:59
Speaker 3: back to the roe when you're back.
36:01
Speaker 1: We get a lot of parents and stuff like that.
36:02
Speaker 1: First reaction when something we think something's really wrong is
36:05
Speaker 1: to go to the er. Do you have any advice
36:07
Speaker 1: to parents out there that are thinking, should I begun
36:10
Speaker 1: to the hospital for this or should I not beguing
36:12
Speaker 1: to the hospital.
36:12
Speaker 3: It's a great question. It's hard. There's this joke with
36:15
Speaker 3: amongst doctors that so when there's like an overhead page
36:21
Speaker 3: for an emergency call, you know, you drop everything and
36:23
Speaker 3: you run in a hospital, you go to the room,
36:25
Speaker 3: and the joke is that The first pulse you need
36:28
Speaker 3: to check is your own, okay, not the body. And
36:32
Speaker 3: that's because if you arrive and we sometimes see this
36:35
Speaker 3: with new doctors. Young doctors know they'll run okay. If
36:39
Speaker 3: you arrive at a at an emergency and you are
36:42
Speaker 3: out of breath and you are tachi kartik and you
36:45
Speaker 3: are flustered and panicked, you're not going to help the situation. Sure,
36:49
Speaker 3: the calmer you are, the more you're going to help.
36:52
Speaker 3: People often say to me when I come to an
36:54
Speaker 3: emergency delivery, You're like, wow, you are so relaxed. Now, yeah,
37:00
Speaker 3: I see that, but also underneath the surface there might
37:03
Speaker 3: be a little bit of concern, a little bit of
37:05
Speaker 3: adrenaline going. But the key is just to on the
37:07
Speaker 3: outside be relaxed. And what that does is it makes
37:11
Speaker 3: everyone else drinks that and they just calm down a bit.
37:13
Speaker 3: And I have this method, it's not even conscious where
37:17
Speaker 3: in a room when there's lots of people shouting and
37:19
Speaker 3: screaming and beeping and everything, I actually talk a little
37:21
Speaker 3: bit softer and I say can you tell me this?
37:24
Speaker 3: And could you pass me that? And what it does
37:26
Speaker 3: is everyone can't hear me, so everyone shuts up and
37:30
Speaker 3: It really helps genius sometimes when you actually just talk
37:35
Speaker 3: a little bit softer and makes everyone just go a
37:37
Speaker 3: little bit softer and listen a bit harder. And when
37:40
Speaker 3: you listen harder, it helps. It helps with kids, it
37:42
Speaker 3: helps in stressful situations. Now back to your question, when
37:47
Speaker 3: do you know I've got to be honest? I've had that.
37:49
Speaker 3: I don't know, I've had that three in the morning.
37:51
Speaker 3: Do you know my son had grouped multiple times? It's scary, right,
37:57
Speaker 3: And then I'm thinking on layered thinking, Am I being
38:01
Speaker 3: too leis a fair? Am I actually waiting too long
38:04
Speaker 3: because I think I'm okay? Or you know, I'm a doctor,
38:06
Speaker 3: Like what difference can I make? I need tools, I
38:08
Speaker 3: need drugs, I need an emergency department. So it is stressful,
38:13
Speaker 3: So take the pressure down, as in, don't be too
38:16
Speaker 3: hard on yourself. The one thing parents need to know
38:18
Speaker 3: is that we will never make fun of you for
38:21
Speaker 3: presenting to emergency.
38:22
Speaker 1: Yeah, it might be the case where it's like there
38:24
Speaker 1: might be a bit self conscious about it being absolutely nothing.
38:27
Speaker 3: But because it's so much better for us if you
38:30
Speaker 3: come in and the child isn't sick, it's better for
38:33
Speaker 3: us than if you wait another four hours and you
38:35
Speaker 3: bring us a child and we've got to play catch
38:37
Speaker 3: up with a really bad asthma or group or whatever
38:41
Speaker 3: it may be. So don't hesitate. If you are really unsure,
38:44
Speaker 3: you err on the side like we live in a
38:46
Speaker 3: great country. Just err on the side of going in
38:48
Speaker 3: for sure when you are not sure whether it can
38:52
Speaker 3: wait till morning. I teach parents that the three bees
38:55
Speaker 3: and the three p's, if it's God to.
38:57
Speaker 1: Do with the When you see that, I felt Matt's
39:01
Speaker 1: ease going I take physically.
39:04
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, So if it covers any of these six things,
39:10
Speaker 3: go in. Or if you're worried about these things. So
39:12
Speaker 3: the three p's are pain, so pain you can't get
39:15
Speaker 3: on top of and kids are pretty honest when it
39:17
Speaker 3: comes to pain. So pain pee pooh. All my favorites
39:22
Speaker 3: affecting any of those areas, Like if your child hasn't
39:24
Speaker 3: passed urine, so that covers a lot of things. Okay,
39:28
Speaker 3: So if you've got a child who's got gastro, for example,
39:30
Speaker 3: and you're not sure if they can be managed at
39:32
Speaker 3: home or not if they're not making urine, you need
39:35
Speaker 3: to go in.
39:37
Speaker 1: Yeah, ah man, because especially gastro could get mixed up
39:40
Speaker 1: real easy.
39:41
Speaker 3: Absolutely, So those are the three peas. And when it
39:44
Speaker 3: comes to three bees, it's breathing and I'll talk about
39:47
Speaker 3: that a bit more in a moment. It's behavior. So
39:50
Speaker 3: if they're just not behaving in a way that is normal,
39:53
Speaker 3: if they're unusually sleepy or like I see themselves and
39:56
Speaker 3: not themselves. Yeah, that's a question we ask a lot.
39:58
Speaker 3: It's an odd question. Are they in themselves?
40:01
Speaker 1: And really only the parent would really know.
40:03
Speaker 3: Yeah, they're not quite themselves.
40:05
Speaker 2: Yeah.
40:05
Speaker 3: And so breathing behavior and then bottle breast which means feeding.
40:09
Speaker 3: So has the feeding dropped off, especially with younger kids
40:12
Speaker 3: if they're not feeding going? And the breathing thing is
40:15
Speaker 3: really interesting because a lot of parents say, well, how
40:16
Speaker 3: do I know? How do I know? We talk about
40:19
Speaker 3: work of breathing. What is work of breathing? Okay, in
40:22
Speaker 3: and out? Yeah? But what is like what's dangerous? Yeah?
40:25
Speaker 3: So what I tell parents is, imagine you went for
40:28
Speaker 3: a run and I caught you on the finish line
40:30
Speaker 3: of this marathon and I looked at you and you
40:32
Speaker 3: are like huffing and puffing, which it makes total sense
40:35
Speaker 3: because you've got a marathon bibof Yeah, if I saw
40:37
Speaker 3: you sitting on the couch beer in hand, watching sport, huffing,
40:42
Speaker 3: puffing like that, that doesn't look right. There's a mismatch there.
40:45
Speaker 3: So if your child is sitting there, lying there and
40:48
Speaker 3: breathing and tugging away really hard, that's not right. That's
40:52
Speaker 3: called increased work of breathing, and that needs to be
40:55
Speaker 3: dealt with. So if you're not sure what's normal what's abnormal,
40:59
Speaker 3: just take a video of your child top off when
41:02
Speaker 3: they're breathing normally, and then look at that video. Compare
41:05
Speaker 3: it to what you're seeing now at three in the morning,
41:06
Speaker 3: and if it doesn't look the same, go in.
41:08
Speaker 2: I'm going to do that soon as I get home. Poppy,
41:10
Speaker 2: come here.
41:11
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's such a small thing, can make such a
41:14
Speaker 1: big difference.
41:15
Speaker 2: Exactly how long have you been in a doctor for
41:18
Speaker 2: twenty years?
41:19
Speaker 1: Wow?
41:20
Speaker 2: Have you seen a difference in the span of that
41:23
Speaker 2: twenty years and the dynamic of parenting with moms and dads?
41:26
Speaker 3: Massive? Like a seismic shift in the right direction. Good
41:30
Speaker 3: to hear. Even like on socials, I've seen a change.
41:33
Speaker 3: You will see this as well. Like I mean, the
41:35
Speaker 3: fact that we're sitting here talking is a change, right,
41:38
Speaker 3: thank you. I mean, like, you know, twenty years ago,
41:42
Speaker 3: obviously we didn't have podcasts, but how many dads groups
41:45
Speaker 3: were there, how many dads were having these conversations, how
41:47
Speaker 3: many dads were involved, how many dads knew enough about
41:51
Speaker 3: what was happening with their kids to actually contribute. That's
41:54
Speaker 3: been a big change. Like when I started on socials
41:57
Speaker 3: six years ago, I had, you know, two percent of
42:01
Speaker 3: my followers were male. Now it's like double digits, twenty percent.
42:05
Speaker 3: It used to be that mums would come and say, oh,
42:08
Speaker 3: are you doctor Gollie, And now it's dad's stopping me
42:10
Speaker 3: saying oh oh oh oh yeah, it's great. It's great
42:13
Speaker 3: to see and we need to see more of it.
42:15
Speaker 1: Sometimes dads will come up to me and like ask
42:18
Speaker 1: me questions and it's like, okay, I'm used to all
42:21
Speaker 1: this too, But it's funny that you say that that
42:24
Speaker 1: you've got to witness it over so long that it's
42:27
Speaker 1: now starting to be the mental load is starting to
42:32
Speaker 1: be more evenly shared.
42:34
Speaker 3: Exactly what we need to move away from is this
42:36
Speaker 3: concept of dad's helping. We're not helping. It's like this
42:40
Speaker 3: is not Ash's podcast and Mattie's helping, it's good help?
42:43
Speaker 2: Is it good help?
42:44
Speaker 3: But that would be offensive right to you? Correct, And
42:47
Speaker 3: that's exactly the same way we should look at parenting.
42:50
Speaker 3: This is not mums raising kids and dads helping every
42:53
Speaker 3: now and then with a chop out. That's not that
42:55
Speaker 3: used to be society. Okay, no judgment, and there are
42:58
Speaker 3: some families who still work like that's one thing. One
43:01
Speaker 3: capt I have to say, there's no judgment.
43:03
Speaker 2: Ever.
43:04
Speaker 3: So if that's how you do it in what people
43:07
Speaker 3: used to call traditional nuclear family, that's fine. If that
43:10
Speaker 3: works for you, fine, but society has moved a long
43:13
Speaker 3: way away from that. You know, we've got dual income families,
43:17
Speaker 3: so mums have now got the added pressure of expecting
43:21
Speaker 3: to be tertiary educated and having a career and supporting
43:25
Speaker 3: the economics of the house fifty to fifty. But we
43:28
Speaker 3: haven't had the equal reduction in expected household duties and
43:33
Speaker 3: child rearing and as you say, mental load, So it
43:35
Speaker 3: doesn't add up.
43:36
Speaker 2: It's probably I think the most common issue that we
43:39
Speaker 2: have whenever we speak about what does the audience wish
43:43
Speaker 2: that they partner knew more about? And nine of times
43:46
Speaker 2: in the time it is mental load. If there are
43:48
Speaker 2: any dads listening who are unfamiliar with mental load and
43:52
Speaker 2: how it can impact that partners. Why is it important
43:54
Speaker 2: to prioritize.
43:55
Speaker 3: There was an amazing study release recently that showed seventy
43:59
Speaker 3: eight percent of families have the mental load primarily falling
44:03
Speaker 3: on mum shoulders. Now we talk about supporting mothers and
44:07
Speaker 3: we talk about sharing the load. What that does is
44:10
Speaker 3: it helps the entire family unit. So what you need
44:13
Speaker 3: to understand if you're a dad, is that your child
44:14
Speaker 3: will sleep better if you know more about their activities,
44:19
Speaker 3: their routine, what's happening, what they should be doing, etc.
44:22
Speaker 3: It will benefit them when they're older. If you are
44:25
Speaker 3: more involved in their sport, their timetable, signing them up,
44:30
Speaker 3: taking them to training. It just helps the entire family unit,
44:34
Speaker 3: the children, the father, the mother, if you are in
44:38
Speaker 3: charge of you know, school communications, if you are across
44:42
Speaker 3: dentist appointments, if you are the one who's in charge
44:44
Speaker 3: of haircuts. You know, this is something that people sort
44:47
Speaker 3: of it sounds odd, but it just naturally falls more
44:52
Speaker 3: on mums and it doesn't have to be that way.
44:55
Speaker 2: And again for dads that don't have a complete appreciation
44:59
Speaker 2: for the mental load. Are there any questions that you
45:01
Speaker 2: can ask to allow them to understand it in more detail?
45:05
Speaker 3: This is not an exercise in making dads feel guilty, right,
45:08
Speaker 3: It's just more when you actually stop and think about it,
45:12
Speaker 3: you can be quite shocked at how much your partner carries.
45:17
Speaker 3: This shocks me every day every day. Like sometimes I
45:21
Speaker 3: think to myself, you don't know how complicated tax returns are,
45:24
Speaker 3: and I've got to do bad statements and this, And
45:27
Speaker 3: then I stop myself in that thought and think, I
45:30
Speaker 3: am not even coming close to the things you are
45:33
Speaker 3: managing and sorting out and carrying. And there are things
45:35
Speaker 3: you can't even measure, like emotional load when kids get older, teenage, angst,
45:40
Speaker 3: et cetera, et cetera. So let's do a quiz. Let's
45:42
Speaker 3: do a challenge with you two and again, this is
45:44
Speaker 3: not a judgment.
45:49
Speaker 1: Do you want to be a millionaire? Music?
45:50
Speaker 3: But it's not a judgment. It's more just you know,
45:53
Speaker 3: it serves us sometimes a little bit of a shock
45:55
Speaker 3: that you realize, Wow, I actually don't carry much of them,
46:00
Speaker 3: all right, quickfire Q and A. Do you know your
46:02
Speaker 3: children's shoe size?
46:04
Speaker 2: Yes?
46:04
Speaker 1: And no?
46:07
Speaker 3: What does that mean?
46:08
Speaker 1: I know Oscars the oldest because I support him soccer boots,
46:11
Speaker 1: and Macy I'm gonna guess she's a six or seven seven.
46:15
Speaker 2: I'm going to go European size, just to mix things
46:18
Speaker 2: up fancy because I had to buy some school shoes
46:25
Speaker 2: recently and at the same time, there was a saleon
46:28
Speaker 2: so I was like, well, I'll get some for both kids.
46:29
Speaker 2: And Lola's a thirty one and Marley's a thirty three.
46:33
Speaker 3: Good When did your children last get haircuts?
46:36
Speaker 1: I know this one because I cut Oscar's hair, which
46:39
Speaker 1: was two weeks ago, and Macy was earlier this year
46:42
Speaker 1: for the first haircut.
46:43
Speaker 2: Lola had one recently, bob cut two weeks ago, and
46:47
Speaker 2: Marley is, do you have to book her in? But
46:49
Speaker 2: after she has her final dance recital because if it's
46:51
Speaker 2: too short, too hard to put into space.
46:53
Speaker 3: But you, guys, I'm freaking to the wrong crowd.
46:55
Speaker 1: I like, don't jumping on too early. There's only two questions.
46:58
Speaker 3: What is something that they need to bring to school
47:01
Speaker 3: this week?
47:02
Speaker 1: Paint shirt?
47:03
Speaker 2: The smock?
47:04
Speaker 1: The smock.
47:06
Speaker 2: We have the book parade tomorrow, so Lola is going
47:10
Speaker 2: as a Cinderella and Marley is going as a character
47:13
Speaker 2: that I can't remember the name of. But it's from
47:15
Speaker 2: a book that she's reading, so it's a striped shirt.
47:17
Speaker 3: Excellent, Where's Wally? Can you name three friends of your kids?
47:23
Speaker 2: Do you want full names?
47:24
Speaker 1: Yeah, Lenny Hunter, Kyle Lewis full name, that tall one.
47:36
Speaker 1: That's all one. It's all one.
47:39
Speaker 2: And echo, echo echo.
47:43
Speaker 3: What is the date of their next birthday party that
47:47
Speaker 3: they're attending.
47:49
Speaker 1: Every weekend?
47:51
Speaker 2: I don't remember the exact birthday is coming up?
47:55
Speaker 1: It's going to be. I think we're I think at
47:57
Speaker 1: the moment we're in the clear with no invites on
47:59
Speaker 1: the table, but I could be really could be wrong.
48:02
Speaker 2: I have two invites. I don't know the dates they are.
48:05
Speaker 2: One is this month, one is October. Okay, I think,
48:08
Speaker 2: look check the calendar.
48:10
Speaker 3: What's something they will refuse to eat in their lunchbox?
48:12
Speaker 1: BUTA don't laugh, But for sure.
48:18
Speaker 2: Something they refuse to eat would be.
48:21
Speaker 1: I've seen those lunchboxes. They're pretty extensive.
48:23
Speaker 2: I'd say both kids. At the moment, it's frustrating because
48:26
Speaker 2: I used to love it, but now they hate yogurt.
48:28
Speaker 2: They won't have yogurt. Yogat to waste the money right now?
48:30
Speaker 3: Wow? The yoga always and that's a big out.
48:33
Speaker 2: Yeah. Actually, so it's worked out financially great.
48:37
Speaker 3: Do they have any allergies?
48:39
Speaker 1: Oscar thinks he's allergic to pineapple, but you got a
48:41
Speaker 1: rash once.
48:44
Speaker 2: I don't know. No, I'm pretty sure not.
48:46
Speaker 3: No. Last question, what's each of your child's next activity?
48:51
Speaker 1: But day we are it's Tuesday. Has got soccer training
48:54
Speaker 1: on Thursday.
48:56
Speaker 2: Both kids do a Spanish lesson in the morning at
48:59
Speaker 2: school on a morning, and then Marley's got dance recital
49:03
Speaker 2: at the Opera House the big finale for dance on Sunday.
49:06
Speaker 3: So you guys have demonstrated how dads should answer these questions,
49:11
Speaker 3: but a surprisingly low number of dads can actually answer that.
49:16
Speaker 3: And there's this test that I do, a very unofficial test.
49:19
Speaker 3: So when I examine a newborn called a one month
49:23
Speaker 3: old six week old and finish the examination, if I've
49:26
Speaker 3: got both parents in the room, I'll very purposefully give
49:30
Speaker 3: the baby to the dad and then I watch what
49:34
Speaker 3: do you look for? Well, what does that dad do?
49:37
Speaker 3: And again this is not throwing dads the under the buses. Yeah,
49:40
Speaker 3: do they do they hold the baby with outstretched arms?
49:43
Speaker 3: Do they immediately palm? The baby off to mum. Do
49:46
Speaker 3: they stand up and start settling the baby? Do they
49:49
Speaker 3: try and swaddle it? Do they just take over? You know?
49:51
Speaker 3: When I ask questions about feeding and about sleep, et cetera,
49:54
Speaker 3: who's answering? And there are some situations where mum is
49:58
Speaker 3: just answering every single one and other times where you know,
50:02
Speaker 3: Mum doesn't have to talk because dad's across it, Dad's
50:04
Speaker 3: over it all. That's what we should see. We should
50:06
Speaker 3: see a complete sharing of the load, where you know
50:10
Speaker 3: everything about activities and sport and shoe sizes and haircuts
50:14
Speaker 3: and what they like and what they don't like. And
50:15
Speaker 3: it shouldn't all just fall on mums. That's where we
50:19
Speaker 3: should be. That's true sharing of the mental load.
50:21
Speaker 2: Do you know the shoes eyes of your children? Doctor Gollie?
50:24
Speaker 2: I do not to promise.
50:30
Speaker 3: Look and all we can ask is that dads try.
50:33
Speaker 3: You don't have to nail it, and don't feel bad
50:35
Speaker 3: if you don't know the answer to any of those questions.
50:38
Speaker 3: It's not about knowing it. It's not about getting a
50:41
Speaker 3: dad and making them feel bad for not being involved
50:43
Speaker 3: or guilty. Though I don't remove maternal guilt to paternal guilt.
50:46
Speaker 3: I want to get rid of it all together. It's
50:48
Speaker 3: just about wanting to know.
50:50
Speaker 1: Yeah, I remember April would always and really help me.
50:54
Speaker 1: She would always say, look, you're so hard on yourself
50:57
Speaker 1: doing just the basic thing, because I was trying to
51:00
Speaker 1: teach myself to be better. And she's like, the fact
51:03
Speaker 1: that you're standing here doing it, that's effort enough, and
51:07
Speaker 1: you being so hard on yourself. It's like, just take
51:10
Speaker 1: deep breath and try again.
51:11
Speaker 2: But also, netball almost broke me. I'm the primary contact
51:16
Speaker 2: for netball and we're three weeks in.
51:21
Speaker 1: Yeah, and if.
51:22
Speaker 2: You're doing that amongst everything else, I do not know
51:25
Speaker 2: how mums do it.
51:27
Speaker 3: Children's support is intense.
51:29
Speaker 1: Yes, we've done like three weeks.
51:30
Speaker 2: Whether we need to just remove sport.
51:34
Speaker 3: Just wait till they get older? Oh god, oh yes.
51:37
Speaker 1: Oh great, those ten questions went really fast.
51:39
Speaker 2: Yeah. I'm also kind of happy. Well, well, we actually
51:42
Speaker 2: have an award for you, doctor Gollie. I've been following
51:47
Speaker 2: you on social media for a very long time, so
51:49
Speaker 2: it is an absolute pleasure to have you in the
51:51
Speaker 2: flesh and to pick your brain, your very intelligent brain.
51:54
Speaker 2: So thank you, No.
51:55
Speaker 3: It's a pleasure. Thank you for having me, and actually.
51:57
Speaker 2: You know what, Sometimes sometimes I don't ask the X
52:00
Speaker 2: this question, but I will ask you this. I'm intrigued
52:03
Speaker 2: to know your answer. What is the one thing you
52:05
Speaker 2: would like your children to remember about the house I
52:08
Speaker 2: grew up in.
52:09
Speaker 3: That's such a good question. I want them to feel
52:13
Speaker 3: that it was always warm and that as a father,
52:17
Speaker 3: I can only speak for myself that I really tried,
52:22
Speaker 3: and I want them to know that I sometimes fail, yes,
52:27
Speaker 3: and that's okay, but I try and learn from those failures.
52:31
Speaker 3: I try to get better. I acknowledge the failures. You
52:34
Speaker 3: can break, you can snap, you can yell, you can
52:37
Speaker 3: be a bad dad sometimes, but it doesn't matter because
52:41
Speaker 3: it's not about falling down. It's how you get up.
52:43
Speaker 3: And that's what I want them to see. If I
52:45
Speaker 3: just try and give off this air of perfection, then
52:50
Speaker 3: they don't learn anything, and it's false, it's lying. So
52:53
Speaker 3: I want them to see that I'm really trying and
52:56
Speaker 3: I'm not perfect. I make mistakes. That's what happens. You
52:59
Speaker 3: learn and you try and grow as a human. That's
53:01
Speaker 3: what I want them to learn the pursuit of progress.
53:04
Speaker 2: Very good.
53:05
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for Spencer. Every time we do
53:08
Speaker 1: an expert episode. I'm like, I'm not going to learn anything,
53:10
Speaker 1: learn so much have another baby, get do you do that?
53:16
Speaker 3: It is possible.
53:18
Speaker 1: No, I'm good, but thank you so much.
53:21
Speaker 3: That's your pleasure, guys.
53:22
Speaker 1: One word, Matthew. Wow, it was very good, very good. Look, honestly,
53:28
Speaker 1: I think I did pretty good with a mental load test.
53:30
Speaker 2: It was a tie.
53:31
Speaker 1: It was a tie.
53:32
Speaker 2: It was a tie. Ash, I want to say, actually,
53:34
Speaker 2: I mean this well done.
53:36
Speaker 1: Yes, you too.
53:36
Speaker 2: He did very well. And I think my lens of
53:39
Speaker 2: parenting and what other dads are contributing to the family
53:42
Speaker 2: is very much based on you, oh and a couple
53:45
Speaker 2: other dads. And I forget that there are so many
53:48
Speaker 2: dads out there who need to lift their game and
53:51
Speaker 2: do so much more. In my mind, I'm just like
53:53
Speaker 2: everyone's like you and the other dads that I know
53:55
Speaker 2: about BONDI.
53:55
Speaker 1: And like to Gollie was saying, there's just a couple
53:57
Speaker 1: of steps that you can take to help lighten the
53:59
Speaker 1: low of your significant other.
54:01
Speaker 3: You know.
54:02
Speaker 2: My only regret in life, Ash, Let's say that I
54:04
Speaker 2: didn't meet doctor Golly sooner.
54:06
Speaker 1: I was thinking the same thing.
54:07
Speaker 2: Imagine if we had our own doctor Golly down the
54:09
Speaker 2: road and we had newborns.
54:10
Speaker 1: Imagine the amount of sleep I got to save myself.
54:12
Speaker 2: I know, to all the people out there who have
54:14
Speaker 2: him as their own pediatrician, you don't.
54:16
Speaker 1: Know how good you've got it. I know, hold on tight,
54:19
Speaker 1: don't let him go, because we're coming for him. That
54:21
Speaker 1: sounded terrible, but anyway.
54:23
Speaker 2: I do want to say a big shout out once
54:25
Speaker 2: again a baby Bunting for making this episode possible.
54:28
Speaker 1: It's not just a babystore, matt it's you go to
54:30
Speaker 1: for expert tips, unbeatable deals and events worth marking on
54:33
Speaker 1: the calendar. Baby Bunting is on a mission to cut
54:35
Speaker 1: through misinformation and provide parents with expert opinions on how
54:39
Speaker 1: to make life with their bub a little easier.
54:41
Speaker 2: For events, information and great value deals, go to baby
54:44
Speaker 2: bunting dot com dot au or come in store for
54:47
Speaker 2: a chat.
54:47
Speaker 1: If you've enjoyed this episode, please subscribe leave a review
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Speaker 1: five stars. Perhaps you can do that on individual episodes
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Speaker 1: on Spotify or as a whole one big one on Apple,
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Speaker 1: or you can join us on social media where Matthew.
55:00
Speaker 2: You can find us if you go into your little
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Speaker 2: search bar and you go two doting dance. Then we
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Speaker 2: will pop up and you will follow us just like that,
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Speaker 2: and we will be there every time you open your
55:09
Speaker 2: social media we'll be there.
55:11
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Speaker 1: a dream.
55:16
Speaker 2: And if you subscribe then we will come to your house.
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Speaker 1: As a thank you.
55:21
Speaker 2: We'll knock on your door and will personally deliver a
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Speaker 2: thank you message for supporting the podcast.
55:25
Speaker 1: We better get moving because we've actually got to get
55:27
Speaker 1: to the house.
55:28
Speaker 2: Yeah, we've got a lot to get through twenty four
55:29
Speaker 2: in New South Wales and then we fly to Queensland
55:31
Speaker 2: to do fifty three. Actually, yes, all.
55:33
Speaker 1: Right, we better go then, Okay.
55:35
Speaker 2: So two Doting Dance Podcast acknowledges the traditional custodians of
55:50
Speaker 2: country throughout Australia and the connections to land, see and community.
55:54
Speaker 1: We pay our respects to their elders past and present
55:57
Speaker 1: and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres straight
55:59
Speaker 1: on the peoples today. This episode was recorded on Gadigle
56:03
Speaker 1: Land