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Monday Mini: Patriarchy Stress Disorder · Stuff Mom Never Told You

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha. I welcome to stuff.
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: I've never told your production to I heart radio and welcome, welcome, welcome.
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: Oh my god, that's my grandmother right there, y'all. My yes,
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: I just sounded just like my mama. Joyce is what
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: we called her. And she is one of those that
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: would repeat words like two or three, like three times
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: in a row. Hello, Hello, Hello, I love you, love you,
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: love you. So when I just did that, it just
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: had a moment. Oh anyway, happy Monday. I just had
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: such a pleasant memory just to myself, so that I'm like, oh,
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: I missed my grandmother. She was a good one. But
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: we're not talking about grandmother's but we are talking about
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: generational stuff, so it's not too off. I have a
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: very giant questions for everyone, So it's just for you, Anie, Okay.
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: Do you ever feel like you need to shrink in
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: order to be accepted? Feel panicked when you think about
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: showing your true self? I feel like I'm an informercial
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: right now, feel as if you're not good enough, or
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: that you are too much, feel uncomfortable in your own skin.
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: But when you think back on your childhood, you would say, hey,
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: I'm a pretty relatively normal life, whatever that is. I
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: don't know why I'm I'm thinking this way. I don't
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: know why I'm panicked all the time. Well, maybe you're
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: suffering from something called patriarchy stress disorder or p s D.
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: And yes, we kind of hinted at it at the
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: last Monday many if you happen to be listening to
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: this chronologically, that there is something termed patriarchy stress disorder.
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: Any have you ever heard of this? I have never
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: heard of it until you brought it up. No, but
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  Speaker 1: I immediately was like, I think I know what this is.
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: I think I have a good idea of what it is. Well,
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: according to Dr Lery Rain, who was the one to
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: coin and start this term, it is a type of
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: trauma that has intergenerational, collective and personal um and quote
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: the invisible inner barrier to women's happiness and fulfillment. Dr
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: Raine is a psychologist and women's mental health expert who,
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: after experiencing stroke like symptoms, had an epiphany in what
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: was happening in her life. In the life of many
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: of our clients who spoke of this overwhelming stress and
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: trauma like experiences said quote, I understood that trauma was
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: a root cause and anxiety, depression, stress, relationship, money, and
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: most health issues, even if and especially if a person
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: did not think they had any trauma. And she spoke
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: of this as her method of helping her clients break
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: through their trauma response, even though they may not feel
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: that they have had any traumatic experiences in their lives. Right,
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: So what we're talking about is again people who kind
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: of compare their lives to everyone else, but all of
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: a sudden filled that same anxiety and that feeling of
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: I guess just low self esteem for the lack of
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: better terms, and that's putting it too simply, and trying
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: to figure out why they experienced this way. And even
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: in the relationships or in businesses or in their own work,
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: they don't have the strength to stand up with themselves.
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: But everything about their childhood would be like, oh, yeah,
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: I had a perfectly good childhood. My mom was loving,
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: my dad was encouraging, and I yet I still feel
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: like I can't push forward or that I need to
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: turn myself down and or hold back. And so Rain
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: speaks of finding this missing link between trauma and the
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: effects that the patriarchal power structures have had uncertain groups
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: of people all through history up until the present day.
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: So when we're talking about PSD, or when she's talking
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: about PSD, she's talking about it as a generational thing.
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: And again we're gonna talk a little more into this,
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: but how it does kind of get passed on from
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: generation to generation as a way of response. So we
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: can also talk about this as just the overall patriarchal
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: idea of what women should be like in society. So
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: it's not just the fact that we thought that we
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: should act this way, but the stressors are being told
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: that's how we should act and trying to become that.
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: It br makes sense, and to take it further, she
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: speaks of this as being things or experiences again generational
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: and quote that what she and all women have been
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: experiencing is intergenerational trauma as a result of oppressed formed
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  Speaker 1: under the patriarchy. So that's a really big umbrella. And
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: I feel like, yeah, people are gonna get ready to fight,
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: because again, one of the arguments about this specific term
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: is that it's victim blaming and that it's kind of like, oh,
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: what was me? The patriarch has pushed me down? So
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: I feel stressed and traumatized, and we'll come back to
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: that just a minute. But yeah, that's kind of one
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: of those conversations. And to again further explain, one article
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: states quote, while PSD is not experienced by one particular gender,
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: as women who have been one of the most historically
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: disadvantaged and oppressed groups, we have inherited survival instructions that
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: expressed themselves differently for different women. For some women, this
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: means they're nervous system freeze when faced with something that
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: has been historically dangerous for women, such a stepping into
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: their power, speaking out, being visible, or making a lot
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: of money. Then there are women who go into fight
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: or flight mode. Although they are able to stand in
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: the spotlight, they pay a high price for it when
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: their nervous system begins to work in a constant state
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: of hyper vigilance in order to keep them safe. So
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: I think that's a really good explanation of what this
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: looks like. And yeah, I've definitely felt that way. For me,
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: I'm definitely a fight or flight So I've always laughed
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: about the fact that I'm not a fast runner. So
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: my in my immediate responses, I'm gonna punch you in
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: the face, if I feel like that you're coming at
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: me because I know that I'm not gonna be fast enough,
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: and that's kind of that thing. I'm always ready to fight,
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: I'm always ready to stand up for myself, but if
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: I can, I'm gonna be passive until you push me,
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: you know, And I'm like, okay, to be fair. Andy,
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: when you and I talk about trauma, we've definitely experienced
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: other types of trauma that helped configure this response. But
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: I know there's a lot of people out there who
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: would say though they haven't gone through similar traumatic experience
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: as they still feel this way. Yes, right, yes, I
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: think we could. It's found on this at length because generally,
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: for me, I will say that it's hard when you're
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: raised in a society or a system to realize the
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: issues with it until you get older. So for me,
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: I know I've spoken about it before, but I remember
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: having this moment of like, oh, I'm so stressed when
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: I would step outside because it feels like a performance
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: and it does feel like my safety is not not
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: a guarantee, or that even just all encounter cat calls
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: are all the decisions that we make of like holding
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: the keys in case someone attacks or for me, I
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: don't listen to music sometimes, but I have my headphones
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: in because I don't want to be bothered, but I
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: also want to be able to hear in case someone's coming.
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: Like all those decisions that take up your brain space,
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: and when you stop and think about I am considering
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: with each of these decisions my life, like I don't.
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: I'm literally like every time I staid outside, don't feel safe,
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: and it's exhausting, but you don't. You get used to it.
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: And for a lot of us, I don't want to
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: speak for everyone, but I think for a lot of us,
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: we don't even realize that we're doing that until you
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: get older and that you have been dealing with all
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: these stressors and making all these choices of like well,
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: I can't have to stay quiet or this could escalate
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: the violence, or all these things, and from such a
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: young age, things like uh, you know, I'm probably going
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: to see a guy masturbate or like all these that
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: are just part of our existence. And to me, of
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: course that's stressful, and of course that makes sense. It's
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: traumatizing to have to face at but it's such a
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: accepted and constant trauma in our lives that it makes
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: sense to me that people would be like, well, no,
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: but I haven't. I don't have X y Z sexual
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: assault experience or whatever. It's still very exhausting and um
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: frankly traumatizing experience a lot of times, right, And I
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  Speaker 1: think on top of that, and the reason they say
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  Speaker 1: it's not just specific to gender, it's because that same
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: level of patriarchy does affect men, whether it's a push
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: to make them more masculine or to be a leader
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: and being taunted if they're not a part of that leader,
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: not what the society expects as masculine. And of course
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: we talked about what toxic masculinity is and why it's
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: such a bad thing, and then why it exists, and
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: now that whole cultural expectation of being a leader and
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: who that's supposed to be and if you fail to that,
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: what does that make you? That's stress and trauma is
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: a whole different level. So yeah, just like in anything else,
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  Speaker 1: that this can affect men as well. So I think
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: it's interesting that she talks about this and on overall,
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: I think we've all known this existed, whether we want
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: to admit it or not. We just didn't have a
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: name for it, and now she's having a name for it.
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: She coming around and having this conversation about what does
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: this look like and how do we treat it and
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: how do we come at it in a way of
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: not just going through the symptoms but going to the route.
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: She does have a book called Patriarchy Stress Disorder, The
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: Invisible Inner Barrier to Women's Happiness and Fulfillment, um, and
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: it's available anywhere and you can find it. Now go
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: ahead with this caveat here. We have not read this.
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: I have not read this. I have read columns, I've
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: read her site, I've read her bio. So I'm not
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: necessarily endorsing it, but we're just saying, if you want
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: to know the source, this is where it came from,
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: and if you want to read more on it, this
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: is where to go. Um. Apparently she also offers different
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: types of help books I guess which she talks about
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: going through a breaking out of jail, which is the
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: whole patriarchal mindset, and coming through a breakthrough. So again
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: I haven't read that part. We haven't seen it, but
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: we just found this conversation and what this was fascinating
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: and wanted to kind of at least bring a small
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: spotlight to it and have a bigger discussion on what
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: it is. Yeah. Yeah, And like you said, Smith, I
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: do think a lot of people will recognize this. And
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: I don't know if I ever as often I often do,
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: I don't know if I ever arrived at the point
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: I was trying to make is that, I think because
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: we don't recognize this until we get older. A lot
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: of times when it comes to like the victim blaming
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: of oh it's the patriarchy. I think a lot of times,
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: by the time you realize the damage has been done,
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: the damage has been done, Like you're older and you
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: have like for me, I you know, as I've said
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: a lot, I've dropped out of calculus. I didn't do
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: a lot of things because I thought that I couldn't
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: do them. And then when you're talking about like if
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: you feel that expectation of I'm the only woman or
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: one of the few women, and I have to I
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: have these higher standards to live up to, like that
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: and failing in that or feeling like you failed in
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: that and having that double standard that's also very very
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: exhausting and of course could shut you down completely. And
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: when we're talking about like mental health and and burnout.
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: I just it does make sense to me. And and
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: then further, like if you add any other intersection of
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: like race or LGBTQ plus um, all of those things,
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: it just compounds. But I yeah, like I said at
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: the top, when you said this, I'm like, I know
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: what this is. I know what this is, right, yeah,
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: because I've experienced it. Right, it makes sense. You're like yeah,
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: oh yeah, oh yeah, okay, yeah, just a roomlinder. We're
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: not psychologists, nor do we work in that specifically, we
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: don't treat people. But I think this is being a
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: fairly new concept and having so many people talking is
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: important that we talk about it as well. And again
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: naming something, it's like that's really nice because you're like,
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: oh oh yeah, yeah, it's like, oh yeah, I'm not
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: the only one experiencing it. And I remember that being
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: a big point of conversation a few years back, and
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: it's still ongoing of and this is a much bigger
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: topic for later, but basically kind of asking this question
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: of like why are people who seemingly had these healthy,
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: quote normal childhoods experiencing these high rates of like not
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: even depression, but you know, yeah, like anxiety or it
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: is something just feeling so stressed and not really having
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: a reason to pinpoint. And it did kind of confuse
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: a lot of health professionals at the time of not
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: knowing for sure why on paper this person shouldn't be
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: experiencing that, But they are right, and she talks about
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: that and with her own experience, as we talked about earlier,
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: when she had that stroke like experience and went to
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: the ear and feeling like when she came to the
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: yard that she could actually breathe because she wasn't working,
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: and she was talking about how she was at the
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: high point of her career but still had that panic
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: attack then and shocked her to not realize, oh, I've
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: gone through all this traumatic stuff as well, and because
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: I'm constantly in fight mode, I am constantly stressed and
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: then having to break down about why when she has
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: her own time with her clients being able to do
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: treatment with them because she treats them for traumatic experiences
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: even though they may not have them. So it's kind
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: of this whole underlying thing. And you and I've talked
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: about this before, and I've talked about it many times
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: where in my past job. I could never get to
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: the old old trauma because I was experiencing new trauma,
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: not to go through that first to go to the old. Right. Yeah,
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: I had a similar thing, and I think that you
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: can get used to feeling that way, like you can
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: get used to this kind of It's hard to describe
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: for well, I've tried to describe it before to other people,
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: but it feels to me like I'm like offer eating
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: on this level where if I stop, then now I'm
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: going to have to take in like all of these
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: feelings I don't want to take in, so I just
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: keep going, going, going, And if I'm ever forced to stop,
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: then it is a moment of like, wow, what am I?
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: I'm constantly on this level that is just exhausting, And
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: when I stopped, I almost I don't know what to do,
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: And I kind of like I'm a freezer. I freeze
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: when I'm stressed or panicked. But I've talked to friends
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: about about this kind of thing where they and we've talked.
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: We've said before, you know, the comparison game is a
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: game you don't want to play. UM Like, you should
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: definitely keep in mind things right, but it doesn't help
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: other than context to like compare your suffering to someone else's.
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: And I've had friends say like, I don't feel like
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: I have any right or reason to feel the way
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: I do, and I always tell them, like, your feelings
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: are legitimate and valid, and I mean just existing in
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: this world and in this structure and kind of having
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: constant reminders of to me, and this is very personal,
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: but to me, it's like constant reminders of like lesser
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: or like your safety is not important or you're not
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: good enough. Which does it does hurt? It hurts like
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: kind of personal level, and it is traumatizing. And I know,
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: like I'm coming from a real space of privilege, but
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: I still feel it and it makes sense to me.
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: I know I keep saying that, but it does. It
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: is something when my friends tell me that, and I
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: think that a lot of things when we try to
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: build these stories around them. I felt this in therapy too,
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: where I'd be like, I don't feel like I can
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: tell you certain things because it's not bad enough or
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: it's not the sametimes. Things that are still they're traumatizing.
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: They seem smaller, but there's still really traumatizing and you
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: can't control why that is in your brain. Um, it's
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: still the fact is it did still have an impact
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: on you. Agreed. Agreed, Yes, clearly we could keep going
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: and going, perhaps all return for a whole episode in
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: the future. Yes. So we're continuously talking about how science
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: was sexist in the way that it was researched and
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: the exclusion of women all together and many of the
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: scientific research, including within the mental health profession. But um
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: changes are occurring within the field as we continue to
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: have new updates in the d s M. So we
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: will definitely be watching as Dr Ryan continues to talk
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: about PSD and the effects that has on the community.
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: In the meantime, listeners, we would love to hear your thoughts.
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: You can email us at Stuff Media, mom Stuff at
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: iHeart media dot com. You can find us on Twitter
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: at monster podcast or on Instagram and Stuff I've Never
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: Told You. Thanks as always to our super producer Christina.
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: Thank you, christ and thanks to you for listening. Tough
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: one ever told you. Protection of I Hire Radio from
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