Latest / That Mom / You’re Doing Everything Right—So Why Are You Still Burned Out?
Transcript
- Maria Woods: you Welcome to That Mom, the podcast where we explore finding more joy and more meaning in the beautiful chaos of motherhood. I'm your host Maria, and I'm so glad you're here. If you've ever felt overwhelmed in motherhood by parenting, work, family, life, then this conversation is for you. Today, I'm welcoming Christine Anastasia, a life coach who specializes in helping overwhelmed moms create micro changes to live a more joyful life. Welcome to That Mom. Christine, thank you so much for joining me today. I'm delighted to be here, Maria. Thank you. So excited. And why I'm so excited is because you help mothers, mothers navigating burnout and stress and just trying to find a life that's a little more aligned. Absolutely. Yeah. So my work is really centered on supporting, you know, professional and know, working women that are navigating sort of the juggle of their work lives, their marriage, their family life, and what that means for them on a daily basis in how they take care of themselves and how ultimately they're taking care of their families. Yeah. And what do you see? Why is the transition to motherhood sometimes so difficult? Or why do people sometimes mothers come to you after years of being a mother? Yeah, I think what really happens with a lot of women that I see and based off of my own experience is that there's so many women that prior to children were ambitious, were very organized, executed at a high level and really high performing. And from the moment that infant or that new baby comes into your life, your entire life shifts. Yeah. And I've seen this for myself, but also with my clients. It's not even that first year of having a new baby. It exists in all those early years with having young children. And what you used prior to having kids in your work life doesn't work for sort of family life and supporting your kids. There's so much physical, emotional energy that it takes to, you know, help your family thrive that I think women find themselves in really challenging chapters of how do you navigate taking care of yourself and having a job and having your relationships and all of these pieces. It gets really messy quickly and it's not just in that first year. Yeah. Oh, that resonates so much for me because I think women who are high achieving, you're used to kind of, ⁓ if you work hard, then you can solve the problem. If you try harder, you get the promotion. So you are saying some of those skills that you use to be high achieving or that you use to have success maybe in your career or your other life, pre-kids, doesn't work once you become a mother. Why is that? How are these things different? Yeah, I mean, I think one of the things that really hits the nail on the head for a lot of high achieving and ambitious women is you can't problem solve your way out of burnout. And I think so many women are so used to if I go to A to B at work, then why can't I do this at home? ⁓ I'll give you an example of this. Prior to me sort of readjusting, recalibrating my life, starting to fit myself and my family goals, I had a commute that was like an hour and a half and you know, I would leave the house and my three year old and infant will be screaming. We'd be looking for socks. I'd be trying to get the train and I put a lot of pressure on myself trying to, you know, understand like, why can't I just figure this out? Like, why aren't all these elements working? I can be successful at work, but everything is messy and falling apart. And so. What I learned was like these rhythms and this work life wasn't supporting me anymore and it became stressful and overwhelming and ultimately they weren't getting the best version of me. And so I think that there are times when we hit that wall where you just see that what worked prior isn't working now, but there's a huge amount of grief in that too. Yeah. So before we talk about what works prior and what works after, let's talk about that grief and where that comes from. that, is that like an identity shift that we're, we're talking about? Yeah, I think it is. mean, it's funny. I think as new mothers, we often don't have a language for what we're feeling and it's often not talked about. You've been in support groups or, ⁓ among new moms, like talking about grief is kind of a heavier topic. And I think most people associate it with death, but it's also there's so much ongoing grief in motherhood that it can sort of permeate and live in the background of your life on a daily basis. I mean, when you have a child and you realize almost every slice of your time is being taken up into, you know, keeping that child's development on track, but then there's all the household things, then there's your work life and all of these pieces. You learn very quickly that you're not the same person anymore and you can't just do all the things that you wanted to do maybe before having kids. ⁓ Creating date nights and prioritizing your exercise or self-care is now kind of a messy situation because kids do require so much. support both on the physical side, the logistical side, the emotional side. so I think that, you know, with that piece of grief, it can be ongoing and there could be grief around who you were, but also the grief of how is my career or my work life changing? Like this job isn't working for me anymore. And what do I do with that? Because pivots and change and transition can be really challenging. Yeah, you know, it's interesting. I haven't heard anyone put it in those terms and talk about grief. And it seems, it just feels right. Like, yes, you, think personally, I had to kind of grieve some of the ambitions that I maybe was letting go from a career perspective to be a mother. So I think that grief piece resonates with me. ⁓ So how do people deal with this grief? What do you suggest? Yeah, I think, you know, Just naming it and acknowledging that you're feeling like that this is challenging and that you've you're feeling some loss and parts of yourself that might be different. ⁓ I do think through motherhood and experiencing grief, it is a process and some people don't reach the acceptance stage quickly because, you know, for a lot of women that I work with, they've been in their careers and jobs for 10 to 15 years, they've built credentials, they've ⁓ been high performers and sometimes navigating what would be next that could fit their life better with their young family or maybe they're experiencing burnout or health issues or aging parents and they wanna make a shift, that can feel really overwhelming. And so I think it's recognizing that you need some support with it and How can you take those small steps to sort of get there? And I think it's a very individual experience. Like, I think women in midlife face these challenges because it's the busiest time of your life. Like, you're raising young kids. If you have parents still alive, they're aging. And your work wants a lot of you. And all of those things together are stressful and they're overwhelming. And so I... I think that most women do need support with that because it's messy and it's not glamorous and to take all those pieces to try to figure it out on your own is very challenging. Yeah, I think that's super validating and like you said, sometimes just naming it. ⁓ think that can help a lot of people to feel heard and seen as they're listening to this because like you said, it's not always easy to talk about or there's not that language to talk about what you're. feeling. ⁓ So we kind of touched on like what works before is this A to B type logic. What works after motherhood to kind of deal with all these things and create a life that's more sustainable? So much of this, like I said, is sort of a process, but there's also a lot of layers that are underneath. for example, creating the life that works for you is often lots of different decisions and micro shifts into what is it that you want? How do you want your life to look? ⁓ What feels sustainable for you in terms of ⁓ your work schedule or what you want to lean into? And those are, I think, bigger questions. But there's also this piece that I think a lot of women listening today can relate to. and many of my clients, ⁓ many of us were programmed to be sort of perfectionist, ⁓ very kind, generous, compassionate, ⁓ overextend, you ⁓ know, willing to help and be sort of in that pleasing mode that those patterns and those ways of operating no longer work for you and serve you in motherhood or work anymore. And so part of the process in some of my coaching work and when I work with women is really getting honest around boundaries and what kinds of ways that you're interacting and your relationships at work and in your family life have to shift a little bit because all of that is a cost to your mental, physical and emotional health. And so that's kind of a layer that is in conjunction with making the change into, it another job or is it clamping down on these areas that are draining your energy? Yeah. So the first step is kind of, think being aware that maybe if you're, if you're feeling burnt out, if you're feeling overwhelmed, that something's not working and being open to the possibility of making you even send micro changes, which I think is Interesting because it sounds a little more doable than just right. We're not just quitting our jobs or giving away our kids We're making spray smaller adjustments ⁓ And then you said boundaries, so I think that ties in and we talked about people pleasing. ⁓ I know I can relate How do you work with people on setting boundaries or stop people pleasing or trying to give all to everything? How do you work on that? So boundaries I think in itself are something that particularly for women, think have issues with seeing somebody else disappointed or maybe ruffling the feathers within the house or the extended family if you choose not to go to an event or make some change. I think that is hard, know, or even at work saying no or not being a team player can be seen as not feminine. You know, right. I think I look at boundaries as sort of a practice and a way to, is there a way that you can start this process, maybe meet yourself in the middle or practice taking these small steps because it's going to serve you and it's never going to serve the other person. So coming to the reality that the boundary that you make or the adjustment that you make is never going to be for them. The person on the other side isn't going to be. so happy that you've decided to not attend the event or not do the thing that they want you to do. But you have to look at sort of the broader picture of your life. Like if you are a dual income family or if you have all these different responsibilities, there's only so much of you to go around. So it's really a conversation about capacity. It's about really getting honest with how much you can sort of spread your energy. And those boundaries and those patterns, I think when you process them with someone, you're able to make those small shifts because you can start to play it out in your daily life. And like we were talking before, this doesn't have to be an overhaul. It can be like really small changes because that's going to support you. in your energy and starting to like look at your burnout a little bit more closely because I will say most women are burned out for years and the process of unraveling that is a lot of small steps like you're not in 20 days just going to all of a sudden feel well like it's a series of changes in your life and it's a internal process very like personal to yourself ⁓ but it takes time. And I think that boundaries is one part of it, but it can be as small as like, what are your weekends look like? Do you need that restorative time? And how are you making choices around, you know, attending family events or which sports activities or which things and where is there some downtime? Like it's really getting focused on how we're going to prioritize your needs, you know? What are some small shifts that you often see mothers making to help, whether it's time, ⁓ like the sporting events, maybe it's weekends, maybe it's setting a boundary with a family member, setting a boundary with work. Could you just walk us through an example of one or two of these small shifts? Sure. Yeah, so one of the things that, you know, a lot of my clients come to, and I kind of make this joke, but they do come to me with sort of the kitchen sink of their issues, meaning like, the messy middle of it all. It could be your marriage, could be work, it's your kids, it's extended family, parents, like the whole thing. And what I usually, when I take this sort of bird's eye view of everything that's going on, I start to sort of ask the questions of like, what is the thing that you want to focus on this season? Is it sort of your individual needs being met? it, ⁓ you know, working on your marriage? Is there sort of like a disconnect there where you're not sort of having time to sort of nurture your relationship, is your kid going through something like really challenging and that's draining your energy? Like how are we sort of looking at a slice of all these things that you're managing to support you in a way that helps that overall process? And so kind of going back to those micro steps or those micro shifts, it's challenging to do all of it at once. Like that is just overwhelmed. Like as a high achiever, we would all love to like fix all these areas of our life. But practically speaking, I almost look at it like cleaning closets. Like take one area and let's work on that piece and your goals. And then once that feels like it's in a good place, then we can move on to the next. So you actually feel like you're accomplishing, you know, this healing and sort of this growth awareness. That's really helpful. ⁓ because I think you can't do it all. That does sound overwhelming. And actually, I think you have a framework, a wheel that you use. Would you touch on those different areas and that activity a little bit? So there's this wheel of life that sort of is eight categories. You could add more, but it sort of looks at like all these slices of your life. One piece might be yourself, like your self-care or prioritizing you. could be your relationships, another could be your kids, another could be your joy, your outlets, like all these pieces. And you're sort of rating how satisfied you are with these different quadrants of your life. And for most, some of these categories, you're not very satisfied, but it does give you a framework to see like, where do I wanna prioritize my energy or what... ⁓ What values do I have in sort of leaning into these pieces? Because I think the reality of mixing motherhood with work and your career is that everybody wants a piece of you. And it can be so numbing and overwhelming to feel like a shell of a person each day. so understanding that there has to be a better pathway to feeling like your best self is kind of where you have to have that resistance because I think also today's society and world is very fast and we still live in a society that's about like produce, produce, produce, do, do, do, keep up with all these different people around you and you have to resist a little to be able to find that best version of yourself. And so these slices of life, sounds like they can be individual to you based on what's important to you. Yeah. And then that can help someone figure out where they might want to start focusing on. Exactly. And it takes it from sort of that micro level. Like, of course, once you become a full-time working parent or, you know, juggling all those pieces, I know for myself, I wanted to figure out the whole pie. Yeah. But the reality is, The only way I could sort of move through it was taking each season and saying like, what is the area that I want to focus on? And it just made it more manageable. And then when you start to see improvement, it feels a little bit better for yourself, you know? And some of it could just be health. Like when you have babies, it's a long time to recover physically, emotionally, and mentally. And it takes time to sort of find your way back to... feeling yourself. There's many of my clients that are in the midst of perimenopause symptoms and all sorts of things of their, you know, changing bodies. Yeah. One of the slices of life, as you call it, that you mentioned was joy. And this podcast is all about ⁓ empowering moms to find more joy and meaning in their lives. ⁓ How can people start working on their joy? Yeah. So Not to take something from somebody else, but there's a wonderful book by Eve Radsky called The Unicorn Space. And I think that, you know, finding your joy or carving out like sacred ⁓ moments or time for yourself, for things that light you up is so important. And I think many, many people out there think you have to sort of like create an overhaul and like do this thing all the time or whatever it might be. But the reality is, is finding joy in your schedule, it can be scheduled and it could be sort of like these small spaces in your life that fill you up. And I think it's so beneficial for women as we were talking about with just these identity shifts where you get swallowed up in motherhood, you get swallowed up in your job. And sometimes the things that really bring you joy, which, know, in this podcast or in a business or in painting or all these different things that might bring you joy, you're sort of like reigniting that. And that can be so fulfilling for just like your overall health as well. Yeah. So scheduling in some joy. Yeah. It's that simple. Yeah. I mean, it sounds funny, but our lives are pretty scheduled. Yeah. And I think too, even for self care, if it's not in the schedule, it often falls right off because our lives just get packed with so many different things. So, you know, if something hits for you that you want to do, like maybe you're making like a monthly ⁓ outing for yourself or maybe one day a week is something that brings you joy that you want to cultivate or maybe it's writing. I don't know what it is, but really making that a priority. And sometimes that does need accountability. Like I work with people on sort of keeping themselves accountable for their own, I guess, prioritizing themselves. ⁓ Which I think many women need that because you literally can just keep putting yourself on the back burner because life happens and it happens every day. And I think it's important to prioritize joy personally. That's why I'm doing this work. But I think it kind of, this gives permission to women to go ahead and take care of themselves, schedule that thing. And how do you see if someone is taking care of their joy, for example, if that's something they're working on in this season, does that impact the other areas of their life? Does that impact how they feel in terms of overwhelm and burnout? Yes, I think joy, just creates so much volume in terms of like happiness and a better version of yourself. Like I truly think that there are so many of us that just things get stacked all the time on our schedules and what people need from us. But if that is a priority for you, you're showing up differently for. your partner, for your kids, for your community. And it is challenging, but I do think, at least in my family, when I am feeling my best physically, emotionally, spiritually, all the things, everyone in the house can feel that. And so having joy in your life, having relationships or community and things that you want to do, that is part of your well-being. And so as hard as it sounds and as sometimes silly as it is for scheduling, it does, once you start doing that, you see the effects of how it makes you feel. Yeah. I think that's so great. ⁓ When a mom comes to you that is very burnt out, very overwhelmed, ⁓ it sounds like you have them start with this wheel of life exercise. What are some, are there anything that tends to have a big impact? any of these small shifts that tends to just kind of build momentum right away. ⁓ So I'm sure it's very individual, right? To person and what they're experiencing. I think it could be helpful for people that just have some examples to spark their creativity of an area they might want to work on if it resonates for them. Right. I think, you know, sometimes when women come to me initially, they don't always see what the result is going to be because in coaching or sort of personal growth work, it's squishy. It's not like a tangible thing that you can see, but I try to create a space where it's a safe place to land. But it's also a place where ⁓ you can sort of understand how you're living on a daily basis. Like I think oftentimes none of us give ourselves the space to just see how we're running. Yeah, it takes time. It takes effort when you're running a million miles an hour trying to keep up on everything. Right. That seems like a big ask to take some time to think about it. And it can be a little bit painful, I think, to take that pause and to face what you are running or how things are going. But so many of us Or have been on the hamster wheel of just being in that robotic mode of doing and being in produce produce mood mode all the time that you lose sight of what your needs are and what you want. But i think in these sessions what comes out is the small ways you interact with your partnership with your work with. ⁓ if you volunteer, ⁓ of what you're asking yourself to do, ⁓ sometimes, and I do this in a gentle and compassionate way, women are capable of doing so many things and we can do a lot of different things. But I try to also ask the question, is it right for you in this season? Like is, I know that you can do it all and you could. burn yourself to the ground doing it and maybe feel the achievement that you handle all these different things, but would it be okay to do this in another season? Maybe when, you know, Sammy is six months older or a year older or when something else happens. And maybe not. Maybe the thing is, is no, this is really important and I want to do it now. But I think sometimes we don't realize that It's the accumulation of how much we're taking on the pace. We don't want to say no, but the reality is, is how do want to feel? Yeah. So there is this like, I think it's like a push and pull and a tug of the capability. Sure. We can do all of these things, but then there's the reality of it. And I think that grief lives simultaneously with. ambition. And it's this messy mix. But I think too, it takes time to understand that feeling good sometimes also is making these choices and kind of parsing out what makes sense. And there's always going to be time to reengage some of these things as well. How do you tell the difference between like healthy ambition, we're doing it all, and maybe someone who is in burnout and some things could change for them and they could feel better? I think it is very personal. And I think most people have very different villages, allocation of resources in terms of support within their home, whether that's like outsourcing and all of that. ⁓ I think if you have healthy ambition and you have a lot of support or you've sort of recreated your life to sort of align to support you and your family, that person might not need so much help because they've sort of recreated realign sort of what works for them professionally. But someone that is on sort of like a perpetual burnout train. and is over giving, overextending, doesn't have sort of clear boundaries, ⁓ is getting sick all the time, is kind of feeling like their family is falling apart. There's just a lot going on. I think that person has to take some looks at different parts of their life to see what makes sense to begin the process. But I also want to share that I was there. Like I was there when it was extremely messy and I wasn't sure how I could sort of realign things, how I could get out of some of those patterns, how I could create some more balance. And balance doesn't always exist balance, meaning like finding some sustainability in my habits and my care for myself. So. ambition, I think, too, is like You've, you've gone through these different crossroads to understand your limits and your capacity. And you know, when you feel more aligned with it, I, I love an unapologetic woman that just knows, ⁓ what our limits are, you know, like knows in social situations, how much she can do. And then has to, you know, make choices around what's family time, what's this, what's that. I think that clarity comes with working through that mess, if that makes sense. Yeah, it really does. And I think ⁓ it sounds like if things are feeling a little overwhelming, less is more. In order to do the things that are most important, it's quite possible that something has to give. Like you said, wait for another season, or boundaries have to be introduced, or you have to start saying no to things, which I think even just saying no or setting a boundary can be new for some people. Right, right. I, I, that's not to say it doesn't feel uncomfortable, but I think when you recognize when you start to feel better, you have different energy and you're starting to work on yourself. You realize that, you know, whatever you have on your plate is okay for this season. and I just think too, we have to recognize that. there's still a lot of, you know, issues with like how much women carry more than our counterparts. Like I think that the mental load, which is probably for a whole other episode, is part of the reason why many women have to make choices that support their life in whatever stage they're in. Because Even for myself as a life coach and lived experience with burnout, there isn't like a magical fix to share the mental load. mean, there aren't like, you know, I could give you like a hundred hacks to take care of that. It's all in your brain. And that is something again, high performing, ambitious, you know, how to sort of execute on all those tasks, but sharing it would also free up mental space. Yeah, but that's an ongoing journey and a whole other thing to open up to. But definitely related. And what struck me as you're talking ⁓ was you talked a little bit about resources and support. And so I think there's a lot that goes into that. Obviously, do you have family around, maybe financial resources to have that child care or to outsource laundry or cleaning or meal prep? That in and of itself is a complicated subject and topic and one that I think if you have a little privilege when it comes to support, that is a huge privilege and a huge advantage. ⁓ I'm sure there's ways people can work on support ⁓ with limited resources, but it definitely makes it more challenging. So I want to acknowledge that. ⁓ But also, I think when women set up support systems for themselves, whether it's child care, outsourcing, laundry or cleaning, sometimes that's judged too. Like they're just, or if you're, you know, able to go and work out, do that class that makes you feel so good, other moms or other people might just judge you for that. Right. Well, I think you're bringing up something that is challenging because we have evolved into a different set of circumstances in this 2026 life that we're living. There was something that I was stuck on that's related to this and it is around sort of like the judging piece, but for many women that are millennial women or moms that are between like 30 and mid 40s, many of our parents were sort of, some of them were on one income or some were staying at home. And I think what they were able to do for their kids and all of that was very different than what is today. And so I think our mindsets, even though many women are working or doing businesses or doing many different things, our mindset is in like a 1950s, 1960s, thinking we should produce the same quality of childhood experiences that don't fit into this modern day life. I've had this conversation with clients and friends and women and colleagues because that creates a lot of friction and sort of, I don't know, you feel bad about what you can't do, but it's also not fitting for the life of today. when you, when I'm just what you said is making me think when I said, oh, people might judge you. think actually personally, that's something I judge myself for. Right. Or You know, I'm feeling not 100 % judgmental of myself, but you know, I'm doing this because I have someone else watching my kid, you know, or kids. So I think maybe that's pressure even I'm continuing to put on myself. And I think some of it is like, you know, you can do it to yourself, but I think what women are starting to untangle in today's ⁓ society and world of sort of maybe re-parenting and understanding what our needs are, is that we recognize that in order to be the best versions for our kids and our family is we need that self-care. And so being a martyr and always, you know, self-sacrifice for our kids, it no longer works. And we saw our mothers that might've done that to the extent where they were always burned out and stressed and sort of like undernourished. that it's not serving us. We know too much now. And so I think that we're trying to find some way to show our kids that if we're going to work and we're going to raise a family that you need a good, healthy version of me. And so we're role modeling that. ⁓ I know for myself, when I was sort of in the height of my burnout, I asked myself that question. Do I want my kids to see me as a stressed out, overwhelmed person and think this is how we're going to live? It just didn't make any sense anymore. So I sort of had to go on that personal journey to get straight and get honest with what that looked like. But I do think this is sort of a product of what we saw before. I think that For me, coming from the place of like, I don't want to be a martyr. I don't want to self-sacrifice all the time. Like, I need to find other ways to take care of myself in small increments so I can be there for them. Yeah. You know? Yeah. And I like that we're talking about small increments, doing what brings you joy, taking care of yourself, things that you can schedule in that ⁓ to your point once you start feeling better, once you see a client start to feel better. then that's kind of tangible evidence that this is working or that this is a more sustainable lifestyle. And it's not easy. mean, life today is extremely busy. I think that with the technology in the background and just the more, more, more mentality of how we're over scheduled, there's just not a lot of ⁓ spaces for downtime that it is a bit of resistance to find your way with that and feel sturdy about ⁓ doing what makes sense for you. I think once you've done some evaluation of your priorities and like you said, what can wait for a different season, what's now, what's just truly draining you, hopefully that makes it a little easier for people to identify things that they can start to say no to or start setting some boundaries around. Right, absolutely. Wonderful. This was so much fun. I loved it. What else do you want people to know? ⁓ Whether about burnout or the programs that you run. Yeah, sure. So I think for listeners today, I want to meet you where you are and know that if you are in a space that you are really burned out or life feels really messy with young children or you're still navigating transition. that you don't need fancy books or programs or anything out there to begin. You can start small and it can be sort of an inward process to start to unravel these tendencies, these things that you might've done for years, whether it's pleasing or perfectionism or overextending yourself to start to unravel that. and think about what is going to be best for you. ⁓ And certainly I welcome the opportunity to chat with you about this if it ever helps, but there is another side to burnout and there is a side where you can live a well-lived life, one that's aligned with meeting your needs and your family. It just, takes a little while to sort of untangle it, but certainly I've been there before and there are many, many women out there that are sort of in that place as well. And ⁓ you can get there. Yeah. So practical and so hopeful. And where can people find you? Yeah. So my ⁓ website is ChristineAnastasia.com. I'm also on Instagram and LinkedIn as well. ⁓ And I just, I love being part of this conversation. So thanks for having me. Awesome. I'm so glad that you're here. Wonderful.