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Transcript

PASTOR'S WIFE MICA MILLER: HUBBY PUTS ON MASTER CLASS IN FRONT YARD TANTRUM · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Tonight, the pastor's wife, Micah Miller's husband, Pastor John Paul Miller,
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: hubby puts on a master class in a front yard tantrum.
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: Will the so-called grass video sink his chances at his
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: upcoming cyber-stalking trial? I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories.
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: I want to thank you for being with us. Micah
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: Miller told her sister, if I am found dead with
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: a bullet in my head, I didn't do it. He
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: did it.
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: She had said that more than once.
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: He had committed suicide because he learned his wife was
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: having an affair.
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: That's John Paul Miller in true fashion.
• 0:51
  Speaker 3: One after the next.
• 0:53
  Speaker 4: JP.
• 0:58
  Speaker 5: You all right, man?
• 1:03
  Speaker 6: You okay?
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: Huh?
• 1:06
  Speaker 5: You okay?
• 1:14
  Speaker 7: What's the matter?
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: Huh?
• 1:18
  Speaker 8: What's the matter?
• 1:25
  Speaker 7: Is somebody helping you?
• 1:32
  Speaker 9: Except that Mark's coming to get me.
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: Oh, okay.
• 1:36
  Speaker 9: I thought I was going to see Jesus.
• 1:39
  Speaker 7: Okay.
• 1:43
  Speaker 10: But you got Mark coming?
• 1:44
  Speaker 9: Somebody called him and they ain't coming.
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: Did he just say he's going to see Jesus and
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: ants are biting me? That is from Ty Longerbeam on Facebook.
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: Tyler Longerbeam, I don't know what to say other than
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: credibility at trial is, it's a beautiful and delicate thing.
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: What will a federal jury think when they see Micah Miller,
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: the pastor's wife, husband pastor, John Paul Miller, and his
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: master class at tantrum throwing like a toddler? Face down,
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: tummy down, in the grass. Let's see some more.
• 2:35
  Speaker 7: Is your medication something they gave you?
• 2:43
  Speaker 9: Yeah.
• 2:45
  Speaker 7: You want me to make sure Mark's coming?
• 2:52
  Speaker 10: But somebody's called.
• 2:53
  Speaker 11: Him, right?
• 2:55
  Speaker 9: Okay.
• 2:55
  Speaker 3: All right.
• 3:04
  Speaker 8: Hey, Jake B.
• 3:05
  Speaker 7: I think Mark is coming. I had him try to
• 3:10
  Speaker 7: get in touch with him again to make sure.
• 3:11
  Speaker 9: Is that okay? Huh? Feels like there's ants on you?
• 3:24
  Speaker 3: There's no ants on you, though.
• 3:26
  Speaker 7: It's just, you know, maybe that's how you feel, but there's.
• 3:29
  Speaker 6: None on you.
• 3:31
  Speaker 7: There's none on the grass.
• 3:34
  Speaker 9: I just want to see Jesus. I just want to
• 3:37
  Speaker 9: see Jesus.
• 3:39
  Speaker 7: What kind of medicine did they have you on?
• 3:41
  Speaker 9: I was on a drug. I don't keep it with
• 3:43
  Speaker 9: me because I need.
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: It.
• 3:51
  Speaker 8: All right, well, somebody's going to come, okay?
• 3:56
  Speaker 7: Do I need to call 911? Do I.
• 4:00
  Speaker 10: Need to call the medics?
• 4:03
  Speaker 9: I just need to get to Jesus. I just need
• 4:09
  Speaker 9: to get to Jesus. I just want to get to
• 4:12
  Speaker 9: heaven quickly. I don't want any hands to stop me.
• 4:19
  Speaker 9: I just want to get to heaven quickly. I just
• 4:24
  Speaker 9: want to get to heaven quickly.
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: Miller, you're not going to Jesus yet. If ever. You
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: got a little federal trial coming up on two felony
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: counts of cyberstalking. All this business about, I just want
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: to get to heaven quickly, right now. Uh-uh. You can
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: go wherever the Lord sends you after a little pit
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: stop in federal court. Straight out to Dr. Bethany Marshall
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: joining us. Renowned psychoanalyst. You can see her on Bravo,
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: on Hulu, on Peacock. She's a star of a brand
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: new podcast, On the Couch with Dr. Bethany Marshall.
• 5:17
  Speaker 9: Dr.
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: Bethany, in the midst of all of that, I don't
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: know what that can be. It's more than whining at
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: certain points. It's so high-pitched, only dogs can hear it.
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: But did you notice he is answering coherently to all
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: of the questions posed to him? And by the way,
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: that is from Facebook. Tyler Longerbeam on Facebook. I've watched it,
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: I don't know, maybe a hundred times. And I'm hoping,
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: hoping against the hope he takes to stand in his
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: own defense so this can be played. Because he keeps saying,
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: I didn't do anything. I didn't do anything.
• 5:59
  Speaker 12: Really?
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: Methinks thou doth protest too much. Nobody said you did
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: do anything. So what is it you're talking about that
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: you didn't do? I've got to hear your analysis. And
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: while Dr. Bethany's talking, could we please roll that on
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: mute with the transcription? Okay, hit it, Bethany.
• 6:15
  Speaker 6: You know, it's a mixture of histrionics, being hysterical, childlike whining.
• 6:21
  Speaker 6: There could be a lot of guilt about whatever role
• 6:24
  Speaker 6: he may have played. especially if he was domineering and toxic.
• 6:27
  Speaker 6: We know now with the Netflix special that just came out,
• 6:31
  Speaker 6: The Pastor's Wife, that he forced her to have sex
• 6:33
  Speaker 6: four times a day, saying that if she didn't do it,
• 6:37
  Speaker 6: he would be tempted to stray or wander and be
• 6:40
  Speaker 6: with other women.
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry, you know what? Did you just say, what
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: did you say about sex four times a day?
• 6:44
  Speaker 6: It came out in the recent Netflix special, The Pastor's Wife.
• 6:52
  Speaker 6: Her friend's, were told by her that he forced her
• 6:55
  Speaker 6: to have sex four times a day, telling her that
• 7:00
  Speaker 6: if she did not, if she failed to comply, lust
• 7:03
  Speaker 6: would overtake him and he would be threatened to stray.
• 7:07
  Speaker 6: So when I look at this.
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: Sex with the guy laying face down in the grass,
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: crying him.
• 7:14
  Speaker 6: Yes.
• 7:15
  Speaker 4: Yes.
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: That guy. That guy. Please don't make me think about
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: that tonight.
• 7:22
  Speaker 5: Okay.
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: Let's move off his four times a day sex demand
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: to Micah Miller. Okay, go ahead.
• 7:28
  Speaker 6: Well, you know, somebody who exerts that much power in
• 7:31
  Speaker 6: their interpersonal relationship, and then they could be in a
• 7:35
  Speaker 6: situation now where they're under intense scrutiny. That could cause
• 7:39
  Speaker 6: him to either really decompensate, fall apart, or to act
• 7:44
  Speaker 6: like a hysterical child, thinking that he's throwing people off
• 7:48
  Speaker 6: the path, off the scent. And that he bears no
• 7:51
  Speaker 6: responsibility at all for anything that's happened because he's just
• 7:55
  Speaker 6: a helpless, out of control person after all.
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: Suddenly, the shoe is on the other foot. And John
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: Paul Miller, the pastor, no longer has Micah to bully.
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: He keeps saying, I didn't do anything. I just want
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: to go to Jesus. I want to get to heaven quickly.
• 8:14
  Speaker 8: And what?
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: Avoid your federal trial?
• 8:16
  Speaker 4: Uh-uh.
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: Not so fast. Let's see more of John Paul Miller's
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: master class in Tantrum.
• 8:24
  Speaker 7: Yeah, we got somebody coming.
• 8:29
  Speaker 3: You want some water or anything?
• 8:34
  Speaker 11: You want some water?
• 8:36
  Speaker 7: Yeah, he said okay if you got a little bottle
• 8:38
  Speaker 7: of water.
• 8:39
  Speaker 6: Okay.
• 8:41
  Speaker 9: Oh, my friends are so weird. I just sit there
• 8:48
  Speaker 9: all day long and look at the ceiling, wondering what
• 8:50
  Speaker 9: my kids are doing, what my wife's doing. Oh, there's
• 8:57
  Speaker 9: my family so weird. I can't do anything. I don't know.
• 9:24
  Speaker 7: I think they changed his medication or something, he said.
• 9:28
  Speaker 7: And he feels like ants are crawling on him and stuff.
• 9:30
  Speaker 7: So I've got somebody coming.
• 9:31
  Speaker 12: Okay.
• 9:32
  Speaker 5: Here's some water, JP.
• 9:33
  Speaker 7: You want some water?
• 9:36
  Speaker 9: You want to try to sit up? You want to
• 9:39
  Speaker 9: try to sit up or you want to put.
• 9:43
  Speaker 3: It to your mouth or what?
• 9:44
  Speaker 9: Okay.
• 9:50
  Speaker 7: To your mouth or what?
• 9:51
  Speaker 8: I'll be out in a few minutes if you need
• 9:52
  Speaker 8: anything else.
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 9:54
  Speaker 9: I can't just.
• 9:55
  Speaker 12: I can't just....
• 10:04
  Speaker 4: Is that enough?
• 10:06
  Speaker 8: You want more?
• 10:09
  Speaker 9: Just a second. Just a second. Just a second. Just
• 10:16
  Speaker 9: a second. My kids don't make any noise this morning
• 10:21
  Speaker 9: when I wake up. I just wanted to see how
• 10:34
  Speaker 9: my kids... I don't get to hear them in this place.
• 10:41
  Speaker 7: If Mark can't make it quick, you want me to
• 10:44
  Speaker 7: get your mom over there?
• 10:46
  Speaker 9: I don't want my mom anywhere in New Jersey. It's crazy.
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: You're darn right he doesn't want his mother there. Because
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: his mother would know this is a big fake. Joining me,
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: in addition to Dr. Bethany Marshall, Robbie Harvey is with us.
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: He is the star of the Robbie Harvey Show on YouTube.
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: and he has been involved in the new Netflix special,
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: The Pastor's Wife. He's actually spoken to some of John
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: Paul Miller's alleged victims. John Paul Miller denies all accusations
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: and is headed to trial on federal stalking charges. Robbie,
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: thank you for being with us. What do you make
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: of that grass tantrum video?
• 11:33
  Speaker 3: Well, I'm glad you played the whole thing because, in
• 11:37
  Speaker 3: my opinion, that has nothing to do with medication. That
• 11:40
  Speaker 3: has nothing to do with any use of anything else.
• 11:44
  Speaker 3: That right there is John Paul Miller. That's exactly who
• 11:47
  Speaker 3: he is. We see it in text threads. We see
• 11:51
  Speaker 3: it on a regular basis. He said this was a
• 11:54
  Speaker 3: result of him falling out of a tree, and he
• 11:57
  Speaker 3: was in a full-body cast. That's what he said, and
• 12:01
  Speaker 3: he was never, ever once in a full-body cast, and
• 12:04
  Speaker 3: that's why he acted this way, because they mixed up
• 12:07
  Speaker 3: his medication. Don't let him fool anybody. That is who
• 12:12
  Speaker 3: he is. What you just saw is who John Paul
• 12:15
  Speaker 3: Miller is. I've spoken with witnesses that say they watched
• 12:19
  Speaker 3: John Paul bang his head repeatedly against the wall. in
• 12:24
  Speaker 3: between sermons. This guy is exactly what you just saw
• 12:29
  Speaker 3: in that grass.
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: Robby Harvey, guys, joining us, star of the Robby Harvey
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: Show on YouTube. You were critical, integral in the Netflix special,
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: The Pastor's Wife, as it relates to finding certain guests
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: for Netflix. Some would call them witnesses. But that said,
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: who did you connect with Netflix. You don't have to
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: give names if you don't want to.
• 12:57
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so what you saw on Netflix is just a
• 13:01
  Speaker 3: small portion of this whole story. Producers met with a
• 13:04
  Speaker 3: ton of witnesses who did not want to speak on camera,
• 13:08
  Speaker 3: but were willing to guide producers in the direction of
• 13:11
  Speaker 3: this story, who were willing to guide producers in what
• 13:15
  Speaker 3: they should look at. And producers even met with alleged
• 13:19
  Speaker 3: victims of John Paul Miller. So you saw the family
• 13:24
  Speaker 3: and you saw a few friends of Micah's. But I'm
• 13:26
  Speaker 3: telling you, producers met with dozens more outside. And so
• 13:31
  Speaker 3: I just connected the producers with those witnesses. And then
• 13:35
  Speaker 3: once they met, I stepped back and they did a
• 13:37
  Speaker 3: great job putting together this documentary. But I can tell you,
• 13:42
  Speaker 3: what you saw in that documentary is only the beginning.
• 13:46
  Speaker 3: And eventually, hopefully soon, the world will see everything.
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: Isn't it true, Robbie Harvey, that you helped Netflix locate
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: other young women who claimed to be victims of John
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: Paul Miller?
• 14:04
  Speaker 3: Well, without going into details, I can say this, that
• 14:08
  Speaker 3: there are alleged young victims of John Paul Miller. I've
• 14:12
  Speaker 3: personally met with many of them. And according to John
• 14:16
  Speaker 3: Paul Miller's ex-wife and court documents, she has multiple minor
• 14:22
  Speaker 3: victims of John Paul Miller. And just this past week,
• 14:26
  Speaker 3: I spoke with a mother of one of those victims.
• 14:30
  Speaker 3: So I'm going to keep it vague there as far
• 14:33
  Speaker 3: as who producers met with. But I will say this.
• 14:36
  Speaker 3: A lot of his alleged victims are speaking and they're
• 14:40
  Speaker 3: doing so behind the scenes, making sure the world knows
• 14:45
  Speaker 3: what was actually going on.
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: Again, John Paul Miller, the pastor. says he is innocent,
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: not guilty of any and all accusations. We invited him
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: and his lawyers on. We never heard back from them.
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: Let me understand this, Robbie Harvey. Okay, he has been
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: married three times. Does that include the current wife whose
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: husband was a paraplegic and committed suicide by ending up
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: at the bottom of a pool and then the two
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: of them get married?
• 15:19
  Speaker 3: Yeah, he's been married three times, but he has children
• 15:23
  Speaker 3: with two different women. He actually had a child prior
• 15:26
  Speaker 3: to his first marriage out of wedlock. So there's four women,
• 15:30
  Speaker 3: a part of his life. Three of those have been
• 15:32
  Speaker 3: his wife. And the current one is Susie Skinner, whose
• 15:37
  Speaker 3: husband was found at the bottom of a pool. And
• 15:41
  Speaker 3: Susie actively told people that it was simply an accident,
• 15:45
  Speaker 3: that he fell into the pool. And once surveillance footage
• 15:49
  Speaker 3: came out, it's obvious.
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: How do you fall in the pool if you can't walk?
• 15:54
  Speaker 3: She claims he got too close and fell in. But
• 15:58
  Speaker 3: once surveillance footage came out, it was obvious that was
• 16:00
  Speaker 3: not the case.
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: Let me understand something else, okay? Four children from the
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: first wife, an older son from a previous marriage. Is
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: it true that two of his children have emancipated themselves
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: from him?
• 16:15
  Speaker 3: From what I understand, none of his children will have
• 16:18
  Speaker 3: anything to do with him. The courts ruled that he
• 16:21
  Speaker 3: is a danger to his own children. So he's not
• 16:24
  Speaker 3: allowed to be around his own children. And why the
• 16:27
  Speaker 3: courts ruled that but yet didn't protect Micah, who called
• 16:31
  Speaker 3: police multiple, multiple times, is beyond me. And why the
• 16:35
  Speaker 3: courts ruled this man is not allowed to be around
• 16:38
  Speaker 3: his own children, but he was allowed to have a
• 16:40
  Speaker 3: school of children under his church. It just baffles me.
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: Joining us is Dr. Jan Gorniak, former medical examiner, Clark County,
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: that's Vegas, board-certified forensic pathologist and founder of World Peace
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: Forensic Consulting.
• 16:59
  Speaker 9: Dr.
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: Gorniak, many people are struggling to understand how a paraplegic
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: could fall into the water. Here he is. and drown.
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: Would he have floated Dr. Gorniak?
• 17:15
  Speaker 11: Well, it appears that, obviously, looking at this video, he
• 17:20
  Speaker 11: has use of his hands and he can manipulate his chair.
• 17:24
  Speaker 11: He would have had to fallen in with his chair.
• 17:28
  Speaker 11: But people don't float until they start, unfortunately, decomposing. So
• 17:33
  Speaker 11: he would have sunk to the bottom of the pool
• 17:36
  Speaker 11: and somebody would have seen him there. But It appears
• 17:41
  Speaker 11: he accidentally, quote unquote, accidentally fell into the pool. He
• 17:44
  Speaker 11: would have still been in his chair, I believe. I mean,
• 17:48
  Speaker 11: without knowing the whole story, that's what it is.
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: Is that the case? Let's follow up on what Dr.
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: Gorniak is saying. She's got a point. Robbie Harvey, the
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: surveillance video revealed what?
• 17:59
  Speaker 3: So he's about six feet away from the pool and
• 18:03
  Speaker 3: he's sitting there contemplating something. And then all of a
• 18:07
  Speaker 3: sudden he, He goes forward quickly and drives straight into
• 18:11
  Speaker 3: the pool. He doesn't tip over into the pool. He
• 18:13
  Speaker 3: doesn't get too close. He's not going around the pool.
• 18:16
  Speaker 3: He sits there about six feet away and drives straight
• 18:19
  Speaker 3: into the pool. He's strapped into his chair. And so
• 18:23
  Speaker 3: with that heavy chair, he sinks to the bottom and
• 18:25
  Speaker 3: he's in there for over 40 minutes before somebody notices him.
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: There would have been no way for him to get
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: out of the straps on his own.
• 18:36
  Speaker 3: No, no. Chris was very limited in his movement, and
• 18:40
  Speaker 3: that's part of this story. They tell me that he
• 18:44
  Speaker 3: started to develop bed sores, allegedly. And then he finds
• 18:48
  Speaker 3: out that his wife is sleeping with John Paul Miller
• 18:51
  Speaker 3: just weeks before his death. There's a lot more to
• 18:56
  Speaker 3: that story, in my opinion.
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: Of course, the wife denies all of that, as does Miller.
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: They claim their romantic relationship happened after the husband died
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: at the bottom of the pool.
• 19:11
  Speaker 4: Dr.
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: Gorniak, do people naturally float? I don't mean after they're
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: dead and they begin decomposing and their bodies fill up
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: with decomposing gases and it takes them to the top
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: of the water. I mean, naturally, when you're alive, doesn't
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: the water, don't you naturally float up to the top?
• 19:31
  Speaker 3: It depends.
• 19:32
  Speaker 11: I'm thinking, I'm in the pool and You can float,
• 19:35
  Speaker 11: but the person has to use some of their own
• 19:39
  Speaker 11: movement and ability to stay afloat. So I understand you're
• 19:43
  Speaker 11: saying that if someone drowns in a pool, would you
• 19:46
  Speaker 11: find them floating? You might find them floating, but that depends.
• 19:50
  Speaker 11: on the clothing that they're wearing. But I don't think
• 19:53
  Speaker 11: people naturally float unless there's a lot of like salt
• 19:57
  Speaker 11: in the water. So no, I don't think so. But
• 20:02
  Speaker 11: definitely in this case, he's still strapped in his chair,
• 20:06
  Speaker 11: but it also sounds like it was an intentional move
• 20:09
  Speaker 11: act on his part to, quote unquote, drive himself into
• 20:13
  Speaker 11: the water, unfortunately.
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: Dave Mack, who is the witness and what role do
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: they play in the investigation into her suicide?
• 20:26
  Speaker 13: Johnny Jacobs was fishing in Lumber River State Park said
• 20:32
  Speaker 13: he heard someone crying. Now, remember, police were doing a
• 20:36
  Speaker 13: welfare check on Micah Miller because of her calling 911
• 20:40
  Speaker 13: with her location. Well, Johnny was fishing and heard a
• 20:43
  Speaker 13: woman crying, and then he heard a gunshot. So when investigators,
• 20:48
  Speaker 13: when police showed up to do the welfare check on Micah,
• 20:52
  Speaker 13: It was Johnny Jacobs who approached the police and said, hey,
• 20:56
  Speaker 13: I've got, here's what I heard, here's what I saw,
• 20:59
  Speaker 13: and here's her bag. You know, here's her stuff. He
• 21:02
  Speaker 13: found some of Micah's belongings next to the water.
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: Dave Mack, that witness, Johnny Jacobs, now takes on an
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: even more critical role because of an alleged enhancement of
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: the 911 call. Claims now being made that you can
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: hear someone whispering back and forth with Michael Miller just
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: before the trigger is pulled. Let's listen to the 911
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: call unenhanced.
• 21:34
  Speaker 7: Robinson County 911, what's the address of your emergency?
• 21:38
  Speaker 8: Hi, are you able to trace the location of my phone?
• 21:42
  Speaker 8: Let me see.
• 21:47
  Speaker 6: You don't know where you're at?
• 21:50
  Speaker 8: A national park.
• 21:52
  Speaker 7: Where's the park located at?
• 21:55
  Speaker 8: In Bear Bluff. I have my location on, I think,
• 22:01
  Speaker 8: on my phone. I find my phone is on. I
• 22:05
  Speaker 8: just did my share of my location.
• 22:07
  Speaker 10: The Lumber River State Park?
• 22:12
  Speaker 8: Yeah, that's where I am.
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: You know, you would think that the 911 operator would
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: try to talk her out of shooting herself, but that's
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: really not what happened at all. That said, listen to
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: this enhancement. What, if anything, does it reveal?
• 22:29
  Speaker 6: Where's the part located at?
• 22:32
  Speaker 13: In there?
• 22:39
  Speaker 6: I think I just heard it.
• 22:41
  Speaker 3: Hold on.
• 22:45
  Speaker 4: What?
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: That is Nat Cash on TikTok to Claudia King joining us,
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: former law enforcement, domestic violence expert and host of No
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: Contest podcast and Strong Enough podcast. She's a star of both. Claudia,
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: thank you for being with us. If there is whispering
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: by someone else in the background of that 911 call,
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: that changes everything.
• 23:34
  Speaker 12: It absolutely would change everything, Nancy, if there really is
• 23:38
  Speaker 12: whispering there. And it's just not clear at all, even
• 23:42
  Speaker 12: from what we just heard. So I think sometimes when
• 23:46
  Speaker 12: you have a case like this, we really want the
• 23:49
  Speaker 12: answer to be. And when we want that to happen,
• 23:53
  Speaker 12: we can start to think that we hear certain things
• 23:56
  Speaker 12: or see certain things that may not actually be there.
• 24:01
  Speaker 10: What happened last? At Lumber River State Park, as far
• 24:04
  Speaker 10: as the fishermen and what he found and pretty much
• 24:10
  Speaker 10: the lack of an investigation, the circumstances at the river
• 24:14
  Speaker 10: brought up a lot of questions. With, you know, her,
• 24:18
  Speaker 10: the ammunition, the position of the weapon in the body
• 24:22
  Speaker 10: and all that, it didn't make sense.
• 24:24
  Speaker 12: We just want the truth. We want justice for her.
• 24:29
  Speaker 3: And we just... We want there to be accountability.
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: That from WPDE ABC 15. Joining us tonight, special guest
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: Regina Ward, who was featured in the Netflix documentary, and
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: she was the attorney for Micah Miller. In light of
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: so many moving parts in this, those protests ongoing at
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: his new church, Regina, what does the family have to
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: say about what happened at Lumber River State Park?
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: Well, you know, I haven't been provided any specific statement
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: that they would like me to relay, but I think
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: it's pretty common knowledge that they have questions just like
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: the rest of us do. You know, things don't add up.
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: The investigation, like in my opinion, was approached inappropriately. They
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: went into it like it definitely was unaliving when they
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: should have approached it as a crime scene. When you
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: have a gun and a body and someone's saying, I
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: found something, that's despite what that 911 call sounded like,
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: they needed to approach that as a crime scene and
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: investigate it as a crime scene, collect the evidence, take
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: the photographs, do the measurements and all of that kind
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: of thing and questioning everything and everybody that was in
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: that park. And that just never happened. So it just
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: doesn't pass the smell test, in my opinion, and in
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: the opinion of everybody else, too. There's just too many
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: things that don't add up. And specifically for me, it's
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: Michael's disposition, we were preparing for court to go to
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: court on her case. And she had already, you know,
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: she had a firm decision that she was finished with
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: that marriage. She had reconnected with friends. Her family was
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: back in her life. She had a different place to live.
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: She had her own car. She had removed and separated
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: herself from John Paul Miller as much as she could
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: until we could get into court. So it just didn't
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: make any sense to me at all what happened. So
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: even I, as her attorney, I have too many questions
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: about it myself.
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: Dr. Bethany Marshall, isn't it true that the most dangerous
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: time for a woman in a troubled relationship, let me
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: say euphemistically, is when she finally decides to leave?
• 26:49
  Speaker 6: That is absolutely true. And also equally frightening is that 76%
• 26:52
  Speaker 6: of all stalking begins to happen while a couple is
• 26:58
  Speaker 6: still married. And so what we see is that when
• 27:00
  Speaker 6: a wife or a partner or girlfriend starts to become
• 27:03
  Speaker 6: more independent, starts to have friends, and we know he
• 27:07
  Speaker 6: isolated her from her friends and family. So that was
• 27:10
  Speaker 6: a feature of the marriage, a quality of the marriage.
• 27:13
  Speaker 6: So if she began to branch out, talk to people,
• 27:17
  Speaker 6: share secrets in the documentary, her friend said that that Initially,
• 27:22
  Speaker 6: she was very vague about problems in the marriage, but
• 27:25
  Speaker 6: eventually she started to be more honest with them. So
• 27:28
  Speaker 6: I see this path towards independence she was on. And
• 27:33
  Speaker 6: that's when men, primarily men, tend to become very anxious, insecure,
• 27:38
  Speaker 6: and then they resort to the only way they had
• 27:41
  Speaker 6: of controlling the woman before, and that's through power violence.
• 27:45
  Speaker 6: And his case, sex and aggression as well. So it
• 27:49
  Speaker 6: also tells me, Nancy, she was really believing in a
• 27:52
  Speaker 6: bright and optimistic future, which is a core feature of happiness.
• 27:56
  Speaker 6: It's one of the six factors of happiness is believing
• 28:00
  Speaker 6: in a bright and optimistic future, counting your blessings, savoring
• 28:03
  Speaker 6: and replaying happy moments. She was on that path. Suicide
• 28:07
  Speaker 6: is not consistent with that.
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: You know, I'm very curious, Dr. Jan Gorniak, renowned medical examiner, Dr. Gorniak,
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: when you determine that something is a suicide, don't you
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: take into account extrinsic circumstances such as someone seemingly whispering
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: in the background before the trigger is pulled?
• 28:38
  Speaker 11: Yes. As a death investigator, we approach the scene. And
• 28:43
  Speaker 11: I heard someone talking about the investigation was not done correctly.
• 28:48
  Speaker 11: So I just want to make sure your viewers understand
• 28:51
  Speaker 11: that as a medical examiner, we investigate the death and
• 28:56
  Speaker 11: law enforcement investigates the crime. So when we're approaching this
• 29:00
  Speaker 11: death scene, not a crime scene for us, but the
• 29:02
  Speaker 11: death scene, yes, we're looking at everything. And we also
• 29:07
  Speaker 11: look at the person's background. We want to know about stressors.
• 29:11
  Speaker 11: So I understand, like you said, the most vulnerable time
• 29:15
  Speaker 11: for homicide is by a partner is when they're trying
• 29:20
  Speaker 11: to leave.
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: I mean, Robbie Harvey, you're intimately connected to witnesses in
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: this case. Was she suicidal? Or as Dr. Bethany says,
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: looking forward?
• 29:32
  Speaker 3: No, every friend that I've spoken with say no, absolutely not.
• 29:37
  Speaker 3: I've spoken with people who met with Micah or talked
• 29:40
  Speaker 3: with Micah just hours before her death. And they say that, yeah,
• 29:44
  Speaker 3: she was on edge. She was nervous. But Micah told
• 29:47
  Speaker 3: multiple people that she feared for her life, that Micah
• 29:51
  Speaker 3: was scared, that she was not suicidal. And I stick
• 29:55
  Speaker 3: with this. Witnesses say, her friends say, that does not
• 30:00
  Speaker 3: sound like Micah on the 911 call. They say it's
• 30:04
  Speaker 3: either one of two things. They believe it's a fake
• 30:07
  Speaker 3: 911 call or Micah is drugged in that 911 call.
• 30:12
  Speaker 3: I spoke with someone last night who says they had
• 30:14
  Speaker 3: never heard Micah speak that slowly ever in the years
• 30:19
  Speaker 3: that they knew her. So that is the consensus amongst
• 30:22
  Speaker 3: all her closest friends. They all say that she was
• 30:26
  Speaker 3: not suicidal.
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: To you, Claudia King, former L.E., domestic violence expert, aren't
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: those facts that should have been taken into account in
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: determining whether this was a suicide?
• 30:40
  Speaker 12: Absolutely, because when you look at the history of her
• 30:43
  Speaker 12: relationship with J.P., it was filled with coercive control. It
• 30:49
  Speaker 12: was filled with isolation and other DV factors. And as
• 30:53
  Speaker 12: we have pointed out, this was the most dangerous time
• 30:55
  Speaker 12: for Micah because she was exerting her own power and control.
• 31:00
  Speaker 12: So all of these things should have been considered when
• 31:03
  Speaker 12: looking at the investigation and determining, was this really a
• 31:07
  Speaker 12: suicide or were there extrinsic factors involved that caused her death?
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: John Paul Miller, you know, the pastor that you just
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: saw face down in the grass, is facing death. federal
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: charges for stalking. Well, let's hear what Micah Miller has
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: to say about that.
• 31:27
  Speaker 5: Hi, I got a razor blade put in my tire
• 31:30
  Speaker 5: at the Spring Maid Pier, and I wanted to make
• 31:32
  Speaker 5: a police report.
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: Okay, tell me exactly what happened.
• 31:37
  Speaker 5: I was parked at the parking garage right there at
• 31:42
  Speaker 5: the Spring Maid Pier, walked on the beach. It was around.
• 31:48
  Speaker 5: 1.30-ish, like a.m., that I got back to my car.
• 31:52
  Speaker 5: And when I got back and I pulled away, I
• 31:56
  Speaker 5: heard the pop in my tire, so I immediately got out.
• 32:00
  Speaker 5: And I took a picture. It's a giant razor sticking
• 32:02
  Speaker 5: out the side of my wheel. And this same razor
• 32:07
  Speaker 5: was put in my tire the day that I had
• 32:09
  Speaker 5: to appear at probate court on March 5th in the
• 32:13
  Speaker 5: parking lot of the county clerk They saw the videos.
• 32:18
  Speaker 5: They said nobody came near my car, but I have
• 32:20
  Speaker 5: pictures of both razors, and they're identical. So someone's obviously
• 32:24
  Speaker 5: following me.
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: When they watched the videos, they never saw anyone going
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: near your car?
• 32:31
  Speaker 5: Correct, which means that someone was trying to get me
• 32:35
  Speaker 5: to not be able to go to court, and they
• 32:37
  Speaker 5: wanted me to have a flat tire. It was a
• 32:39
  Speaker 5: psych evaluation from my ex-husband. It was a mandated psych evaluation,
• 32:44
  Speaker 5: which I got dismissed. After that day, they cleared me,
• 32:48
  Speaker 5: dismissed and dropped the case. But there was still a
• 32:52
  Speaker 5: razor in my tire that day at court. And then
• 32:55
  Speaker 5: just now, less than a week later, there's another razor
• 32:59
  Speaker 5: in my tire. And he's accusing me of having an
• 33:01
  Speaker 5: affair and all this crazy stuff.
• 33:03
  Speaker 4: He tried to punch me, but thankfully I was standing up.
• 33:05
  Speaker 4: So he made contact, but it didn't. knocked the wind
• 33:09
  Speaker 4: out of me like it should have. And he pushed
• 33:12
  Speaker 4: me down in front of thousands of people at Disney World.
• 33:15
  Speaker 4: And so, yeah, and his best friend even saw that happen.
• 33:18
  Speaker 4: He slapped drinks right out of my hands. That was
• 33:25
  Speaker 4: before I got, I was in the hospital after that
• 33:28
  Speaker 4: from just a panic attack of what was happening.
• 33:30
  Speaker 13: But I just got out of the hospital a couple
• 33:32
  Speaker 13: of days ago.
• 33:33
  Speaker 4: And when I got out, he was impersonating my identity.
• 33:37
  Speaker 4: With the phone that he had in his hands, I
• 33:39
  Speaker 4: didn't even have my phone or anything, and he's texting everybody.
• 33:41
  Speaker 4: He hacked my social media, and he's got guns.
• 33:44
  Speaker 8: In the home.
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: Robbie Harvey, star of The Robbie Harvey Show on YouTube,
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: what are the stalking charges on which he will be tried?
• 33:54
  Speaker 3: Well, the feds say that they, in one day alone,
• 33:58
  Speaker 3: that he would text Micah 50-plus times in a day.
• 34:02
  Speaker 3: And you heard Micah say right there, her tires being slashed.
• 34:06
  Speaker 3: The feds brought that up also in their charges. Now,
• 34:10
  Speaker 3: I believe there's going to be a lot more because
• 34:12
  Speaker 3: the feds have met with people that have nothing to
• 34:15
  Speaker 3: do with the harassment of Micah. I think we're going
• 34:18
  Speaker 3: to see a ton more to the charges. And I
• 34:22
  Speaker 3: asked the feds in a press conference after his indictment
• 34:26
  Speaker 3: earlier this year, or another reporter asked, is more charges coming.
• 34:30
  Speaker 3: And they kind of smiled and said the investigation is
• 34:33
  Speaker 3: still open. So we expect a lot more than what
• 34:37
  Speaker 3: they've put on them for now.
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: Well, I can only hope, Regina Ward, that the grass
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: tantrum video makes it into the federal trial. You know,
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: the feds don't enjoy that type of video as much
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: as I do. Having been a fed, they're a little more,
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: let's just say, buttoned up when it comes to trial.
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: But here's another video, Regina, that I'd like your opinion on.
• 35:01
  Speaker 3: I got a call late last night.
• 35:02
  Speaker 13: My wife has passed away.
• 35:04
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 35:06
  Speaker 3: It was self-induced, and it was up in North Carolina.
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: That from Zed A. Mark on TikTok. I had to
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: double check to make sure he's wearing the same outfit
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: that that was the same day he announces that Micah
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: is dead. and then starts maniacal piano playing with a
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: huge smile on his face. Regina, that's just creepy.
• 35:49
  Speaker 3: Oh, my goodness.
• 35:50
  Speaker 2: I'm so glad that you brought that up. I've talked
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: about this before. Him playing that piano, and I just
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: feel like he just does that little thing, and he
• 35:59
  Speaker 2: looks straight out to everyone that's sitting there. In my opinion,
• 36:03
  Speaker 2: there's like glee behind those eyes, and I can barely
• 36:06
  Speaker 2: stand to watch it. It's just so insincere. It's like
• 36:11
  Speaker 2: he's got a happy day. It's one of the best
• 36:13
  Speaker 2: days of his life. You know, his wife just died.
• 36:16
  Speaker 2: And one that he swore that and begged and wanted
• 36:19
  Speaker 2: her back and loved her so much. You do anything
• 36:22
  Speaker 2: and everything for her. And then he's up there acting
• 36:25
  Speaker 2: that way. It's despicable and it's disrespectful to Micah.
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: Um, You know, sometimes it just seems like a shame
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: that we know so much that the jury will never know.
• 36:37
  Speaker 1: And reminder, John Paul Miller is innocent until proven guilty
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: at trial. If you know or think you know anything
• 36:51
  Speaker 1: about this case, including the upcoming federal trial, please dial
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: the feds.
• 36:59
  Speaker 3: 803-551-4200.
• 36:59
  Speaker 6: Repeat, 803-551-4200.
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: We remember American hero, Officer Richard Smith, Jr., Albuquerque PD,
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: shot and killed in the line of duty after 22
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: years on the force, leaving behind a wife turned widow
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: and a grieving daughter. American hero, Officer Richard Smith, Jr.,
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: Thank you to our guests, but especially to you for
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: being with us tonight. Nancy Grace signing off, but I'll
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: see you tomorrow night. And until then, good night, friend.