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The Power of Humor in Leadership and Communication with Beth Sherman · Authentic Living

• 0:01
  Welcome to Authentic Living with Roxanne, a place where we have conscious conversations
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  about things that really matter in our lives.
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  And now here's your host, Roxanne Durhaj.
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  Hi, everyone.
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  It's Roxanne Durhodge.
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  Thanks for tuning in again this week for Authentic Living with Roxanne.
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  Today, I have someone that brings an amazing background, and I think we're going to have
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  lots of fun talking about humor, comedy, and business.
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  Talia, Beth, thanks so much for being here with us today.
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  No, it's my pleasure.
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  Thanks for having me.
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  What I wanna talk a little bit about is her background.
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  So she's done, she's a speaker, a comedian, which we were talking about that just before we
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  got online about the comic elements, whether you're on a stage but also in business.
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  She's an Emmy award winning comedy writer.
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  She's worked with some of the biggest names in entertainment that we all would know.
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  She's American based in London and spends her free time trying to remember to drive on the
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  left.
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  I grew up in Trinidad, so I'm the opposite of you, Beth.
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  So I came and got my license in Canada, and then I moved back to Trinidad.
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  And I'm the same way.
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  I'm literally thinking I'm gonna hurt myself or lots of other people, so I decide not to drive
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  when I go to Trinidad.
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  So a bit about her, she's worked with Emmy award winning Hollywood comedies such as The
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  Late Show with David Letterman, which we all love, Jay Leno, Ellen, the Academy Awards.
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  She's done comedy clubs throughout The US, and she's the winner of seven Emmy Awards, like I
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  said earlier, and nominated for a 2023 Writers Guild Award for the Netflix comedy special
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  stand out, LGBTQ and celebration.
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  So Beth You've read the whole thing.
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  I have.
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  I had to keep
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  And that's our time.
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  Yeah, it was just the first little bit is when
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  people really started telling her I wasn't going to get into all of it, I got into it.
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  See, you have an interesting background, Beth, you have to tell everybody else that they're
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  just gonna listen intently to what you have to say.
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  Yeah.
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  Yeah.
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  I yes.
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  Basically, I've I spent thirty years in comedy, and now I am I help people in business not be
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  funny.
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  I'm not trying to make more comedians.
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  That is no one needs that.
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  And I don't need the competition.
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  I what I'm focused on now is humor as a tool, but, really, the end result is that I'm looking
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  for is connection and impact because you have to get people's attention and you have to
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  create emotional connection.
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  Whether you're speaking to an audience or whether you're leading a team.
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  And so it's not about it's necessarily jokey.
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  It's about how can you quickly build trust and rapport.
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  And humor and by humor, I'm defining as how can you just get to get a laugh or a smile, just a
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  smile out of someone.
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  How can you give them that warm fuzzy?
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  How can you just be someone that they don't mind spending time with?
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  Because in business, that can be the difference between someone working with you or the other
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  guy.
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  Mean, it it it's such a small thing, but it's so it's really just you you the title of your
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  podcast involves authenticity.
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  I mean, it's how can you be a person?
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  How can you be authentic?
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  How can you be human in in a world where AI and and chatbots are, you know, perfectly capable
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  of doing a job that's okay.
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  So how can you really stand out, and how can you create situations that are just lessened.
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  So did you when you started off, right, like, I'm always curious, did you go to writing
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  school?
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  Did you take journalism?
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  What was the path that made you think?
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  I'm gonna eventually be able to be up there with some of the, I think, best comics, and so
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  different, right?
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  Like you think of Jay Leno from David Le they're all so and it has to be steeped in who
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  they really are to deliver, which I love.
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  Like you talk about authenticity, It's that delivery.
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  And sometimes you think, Oh, goodness, I think they left me back there because I didn't get
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  the humor.
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  So how is it that you got into writing and then ultimately got into the element of humor in
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  writing?
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  Sure.
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  Well, it's not I I got into humor.
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  I wasn't connected to to writing.
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  Okay.
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  That's what I fell in love with.
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  It it these jobs, they're not things that you can learn in school.
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  It's really a lot of apprentice.
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  You can teach someone how to be a musician.
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  You can teach them the fundamentals, but then finding their voice to be a composer or finding
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  their voice musically, if you compare it to that, it's really experience.
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  There's no substitute for experience.
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  I thought I wanted to be a journalist until because that was sort of the I have a short
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  attention span, but it's short and it goes deep.
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  So, journalism seemed like something that would work when I was in and this is in high school.
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  I mean, trying to imagine what I wanted to do.
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  And I used to watch these news magazine shows, and I thought that seems interesting.
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  People get to go all over the world and get really into a story.
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  And then the following week, it's a different story.
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  That appealed to me.
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  And then I was watching one of those news magazine shoot shows, and they did a behind the
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  scenes of a sitcom that I really liked that was about broadcast journalism.
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  It was Murphy Brown.
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  I don't know if
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  people
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  have kids of age.
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  And I was in high school at the time.
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  And they did a behind the scenes, and it wasn't just the actors behind the scenes.
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  They went to this magical place called the Writer's Room.
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  And I was living in Philadelphia in the suburbs.
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  I had no connection with show business at all.
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  And the Writer's Room was a room full of guys.
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  It was mostly guys.
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  It was, like, 10 guys around a conference room table.
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  And their entire job so it'd be one person's job to write the script for that week's show,
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  and then it would be everyone else's job to go through that script line by line to make every
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  line funnier, not just funnier, but funnier in the voice of the character.
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  Mhmm.
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  And so it's a room full of people who were professionally funny who got to hang out with
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  other people who were professionally funny.
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  It just this and they got paid for it.
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  I mean, to me, that was just the most it's the only thing I ever wanted to do.
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  Once I knew it was a job, it was just genuinely the only thing I ever wanted to do.
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  And I I went to college because it both my parents were the first in their generation to
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  in their families to go to college.
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  So me not going was not an option.
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  So I went and I studied communication, but it was very academic.
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  It wasn't anything that I've ever used.
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  And then I moved to Los Angeles, and I started as a a PA, as a gopher.
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  They call you a gopher because it's literally gopher this, gopher that.
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  Go buy 40 coffees at Starbucks or go drive scripts around because it was pre Internet, pre
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  really pre fax, so they would send out the pages.
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  There were new pages every day because the there would be often a table read of the script
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  on a Monday, and then they would shoot the script in front of a live studio audience on
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  Friday.
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  And so from Tuesday to Friday, the writers in that writer's room were it was evolving.
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  So, rehearsals during the day and then in the writers' room, it was evolving.
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  So, then, when I moved up to writer's assistant or PA, people were it was my job to drive those
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  new pages around so people the actors could show up prepared the next morning.
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  And I basically sort of worked my tail off and through attrition.
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  At some point, I wore people down and got opportunities and got writing jobs, and then
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  those jobs continued.
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  But that was the path I took into it.
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  I saw it.
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  I fell in love with it, and nothing else came close.
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  So I essentially apprenticed myself to it.
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  To the career that you have and then ultimately into business.
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  Now, what was the one thing that you learned early about writing?
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  Because I always think that humor, there's universality with some things, right?
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  But when I think of humor, like I think of some of the skits that you see on Saturday Night
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  Live or whatever, when you think of a table read, they go through and through and through.
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  Like you said, if they do a Monday to a Friday or whoever who you're writing for, how is it
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  that they decide what's funny?
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  Do they gauge it based on whether because funny people are funny.
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  Right?
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  Or how do they know if the average person is gonna connect with the kind of what's weaved in
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  the humor wise into a skit?
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  The stuff that I the career that I ended up having was a lot of comedy variety.
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  So I ended up on shows that were five days a week.
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  So there wasn't a lot of time for a table read.
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  There was sort of what happened in the news today at 04:00.
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  This was gonna be on the air, and there's a rehearsal somewhere in between.
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  But, really, it's this will sound like a smart aleck answer, but it's do people laugh?
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  Do the people in the room laugh?
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  And when you have a room full of funny people, it's tough to get a laugh because it's I guess
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  it's like having a room full of chefs.
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  If they'll taste something, they'll go, oh, yeah.
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  That's good.
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  But imagine what it takes for them to go, oh my god.
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  That's the best thing I've ever tasted.
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  Right.
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  Right.
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  Right.
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  So the reactions but I think people know.
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  I I think you have a sense of if it makes the room laugh, that's usually how in rehearsal, if
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  the camera guys laugh, if the camera operators laugh, the people who've just seen everything,
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  you know, the guys who've been there for twenty five years.
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  Right.
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  Right.
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  Who who are sort of half listening.
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  If you can make them laugh, then the general population is gonna love it.
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  And but all that said, sometimes things don't land.
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  But for the same reason some of those things don't land, if you sort of took it back to the
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  shop and looked at it, it's often the same sorts of reasons that things don't land if
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  you're a speaker.
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  And you think, gee, thought really thought that was funny, but it didn't get much.
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  Sometimes it's maybe the wording was a little soft.
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  Maybe it it because everybody knew the punchline you were getting to, it felt right in
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  the planning of it.
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  But then the audience, there might have been a piece of information they didn't have or a word
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  that needed to be at the very end of it was a little buried.
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  So or it sometimes it's just in the delivery if people can't hear the punchline either
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  literally or hear the punchline sort of figuratively.
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  If it can go right past them, if if there's not some sort of audible cue that it's a punchline.
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  If you hear me speaking now, my voice goes up.
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  Or if I'm gonna emphasize something, I might take a small beat.
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  Because there are things that I'm doing that there's subtle cues that I'm well, that I'm
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  enjoying what I'm saying, but there's subtle cues that I want you to enjoy what it is that
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  I'm saying.
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  And so there's usually a way to problem solve things if they don't work.
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  But
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  So there's a stage crafting that will actually come of it even if you've written the speech or
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  the story to for the person delivering it as well.
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  Like, to your point, so you could take two different people delivering the same message,
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  but it's the way like you said, whether it's elevating your voice or stopping or leaning
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  into the audience or some whatever your the way you hold your body, those types of things.
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  Obviously, there's a crafting bit that goes with it as well.
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  Yeah.
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  There's a physicality to it.
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  Yeah.
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  Yeah.
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  But it's also but when I work with speakers and I work with everyone from because a big because
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  I speak to businesses about how to use humor in leadership and how to use it for connection and
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  in sales and things like that.
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  But I also work one to one with a lot of speakers.
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  And about half my clientele are these five figure big, you know, queso grande big cheese
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  speakers.
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  But the rest of them are father of the bride who's terrified and has never really spoken in
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  public before.
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  Owns a tire warehouse and but his daughter's getting married and wants to give a great
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  speech.
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  So you don't necessarily need to be a seasoned speaker.
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  That's where it comes into my for me, understanding what's funny on the page.
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  And what I talk about in in both cases is that truth is funny.
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  If you wanna mix no matter what you're trying to do, don't try to be funny.
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  Truth is funny.
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  So all all we do as comedians is observe and report truth.
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  So instead of trying to because an audience can smell it when you're trying too hard.
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  Everyone's been to stand up or an open mic night or something or had a boss or a father
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  who who made jokes and uh-huh.
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  Yeah.
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  Uh-huh.
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  Yeah.
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  Uh-huh.
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  Oh.
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  You'll get yeah.
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  You'll get a reaction, but you got a nice one.
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  Yeah.
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  I see what you did there.
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  But if you can sort of have a what really lands with people and creates an emotional connection
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  is simply being a little bit vulnerable and stating funny truth.
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  And if you're looking for funny truth or when professionals look for funny truth, there's two
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  main places that we look for it, and one is self awareness and one is specificity.
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  And so this goes from every Netflix special to the father of the bride to just a leader trying
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  to relieve a little tension.
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  Self awareness.
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  I don't mean being self deprecating.
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  I mean self awareness, which is simply acknowledging whatever the audience or the
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  other person might be noticing or thinking.
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  If I've got my arm in a cast and I walk out on stage, I better say something about the fact
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  that my arm's in a cast because people are noticing it.
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  When I did stand up, I mean, I've got short hair.
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  I people would jump to a conclusion.
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  I'm a woman with short hair.
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  So I had to, at some point, in the first minute or two, acknowledge it somehow because
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  otherwise those things become a potential distraction.
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  So that's just self awareness.
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  Be aware of how you're coming across to people, which is also one of the number one things they
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  teach in leadership training.
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  Be aware of the impact that you have and be aware of how you interact with people.
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  How do other people see you?
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  And then specificity is simply, if truth is funny, then the details of that truth are
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  hilarious because we're all quirky.
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  We're it's I mean, if I ask you, it it's the sort of what did you have for breakfast?
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  And you go, well, I had I had some cereal.
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  No.
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  No.
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  What did you have?
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  Well, okay.
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  It was actually was granola, I poured it into the bowl, and then we didn't have any milk.
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  But we had a little heavy cream and some yogurt.
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  So I put one spoonful of each of those things in there, figuring somehow that'll balance it
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  out.
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  And I didn't have any fresh fruit, so I thought I have strawberry jam.
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  Why not?
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  And then I took a bite of it and realized my granola was stale.
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  This is all this is actually what happened this morning.
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  I realized my granola was kinda stale.
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  So I put I put more jelly in.
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  I put more strawberry jam in because really wasn't anything else in the house that I I felt
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  like eating.
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  And then just mixed it up into just a paste that you could use to hang wallpaper.
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  But I'm imagining the consistency in my mouth.
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  Oh, yeah.
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  It was a workout.
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  It it was it really got the morning started, and then I had a double espresso with that.
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  So but that specificity.
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  So is that a hilarious story?
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  No.
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  But does it tell you something about me?
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  Does it make you feel a little bit more connected to me?
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  I I think think if she's laid back, she makes do with what she has, and if it doesn't work
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  out, she iterates.
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  Yeah and have you done the same thing?
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  Oh goodness, oh goodness, relatable.
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  It's the time in different scenarios absolutely.
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  You're thinking well I don't have this but I'm going to try this.
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  Yeah, it's great.
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  Will never do that again or wow, that's pretty innovative.
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  Exactly.
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  It's and that's just that's all specificity is.
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  It's just it's often it's the story behind what happened and and it's storytelling without
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  having always to tell the story.
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  I love that.
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  I love that approach.
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  Right?
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  Because I think when I was creating my keynote, you're writing and you're trying all these
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  things.
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  Right?
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  And then you're like, it's like, I'll do a couple more PhDs instead of doing this damn
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  speech.
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  And then you realize it's because you're trying so hard to get the thing right.
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  But I love what you just did there, Beth, which was just kinda, I'm gonna just tell you a
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  story.
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  And you're telling a story, like you said, I'm gonna screw up that word.
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  Exactly.
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  We all become Sylvester the cat when we try to say it.
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  Yes.
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  It's so simple and I'm just thinking of applying it for leaders, right?
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  And when they're trying to deliver something that maybe isn't fun or whatever, and they're
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  maybe talking about their morning before they left the house kind of thing to kind of create
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  that element that I'm just kind of just like you by that story.
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  And that was like we talk about, like you said, humour and connection.
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  Because a lot of times leaders, because of who they are perceived as having to be the people
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  in charge, they have everything figured out, all that stuff, and they're just like me and
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  you, right?
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  And they're trying to get through a day.
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  But people that are very kind of, I would say, autocratic in their approach, they feel like
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  they can't show who they really are, which is such a sad thing for them to be able to learn
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  that skill, to be able to You could still do business very well, but relatability, it
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  becomes so easy, like from what you're saying, just by being able to tell a story.
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  But it doesn't have to be a grandiose story about something huge or big.
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  Something as simple as having old granola with some
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  And there's a great quote from James Joyce, author of Ulysses, noted funny man.
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  He is a great he wasn't talking about comedy at the time, I don't think.
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  But the quote is, in the particular lies the universal.
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  The more specific something is, the more relatable it is.
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  Yeah.
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  It's just really often just a little bit of vulnerability.
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  And then when I speak to groups on leadership or I when I speak about humor and leadership,
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  and I always have to be careful to say, I'm using the word humor, but I just really mean
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  how can you create trust and rapport?
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  I I use the example of there there's a friend of mine here who is a former British I always
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  wanna say special forces, he he always corrects me.
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  Commando.
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  British forces commando.
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  And he traveled all over the world very high up and deployed in war zones all over the world.
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  And we've had some great conversations about he how he used humor as a tool and how important
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  he thought it was.
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  He actually called it a force multiplier, which I thought was really cool.
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  This guy is six foot four.
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  I mean, he's exactly what you picture when you think commando, big army commando man.
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  And one of the examples that he used is when he would have to meet with village elders to get
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  them to do whatever it was he needed them to do or get their help at least with to to work with
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  them.
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  So so he had to build trust and rapport in this very tense situation very quickly.
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  And, again, this guy's six foot four, would have been in fatigues and armed to the teeth.
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  And he's using the word we're using the word humor, but he's not gonna be a clown.
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  He's not gonna go in and be try to be a comedian.
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  But he said he would do small things, like be a little bit awkward with the local custom.
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  Or if they give them the drink of the local booze, sort of give it a little extra something
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  as it goes down.
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  Just a tiny little bit of vulnerability.
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  Whatever you had to do to get a little bit of a smile.
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  You're talking about using humor to say things between the lines.
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  And I asked him, so what were you saying between the lines when you were doing those
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  things?
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  And he didn't hesitate for a second.
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  He said, I was trying to say that inside this uniform, there is a person.
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  Even though I'm a big guy with a lot of serious things that I have to achieve, I could be a
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  little bit bumbly too or I could be
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  He was willing to be that tiny little bit vulnerable.
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  He wasn't giving away anything.
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  He was still mister big army commando man, but not but he was willing to be just a tiny bit
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  vulnerable.
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  And people see that, and it just releases sometimes, it's just releasing that little bit
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  of tension or just showing that you're trying to be a person.
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  And I don't think that undermines credibility.
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  If you think
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  that
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  undermined his credibility, I'll give you his address.
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  I'm not gonna tell him.
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  You can.
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  You know?
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  Six foot four army commando man.
• 22:13
  Oh, yeah.
• 22:14
  No.
• 22:14
  Of course not.
• 22:15
  So it's a subtlety of what I like about what we're talking about, Beth, it's it doesn't have
• 22:22
  to be so contrived.
• 22:23
  It could be something really subtle or simple in allowing people to just see who Beth is or
• 22:33
  who the commando guy is.
• 22:35
  But ultimately, I think a fear, and I know sometimes leaders worry about that credibility
• 22:41
  element, right?
• 22:42
  You know, if I'm too quote unquote emotionally available, I'm not gonna be credible and then
• 22:47
  people are gonna take my direction, and then things are gonna fall apart kind of thing.
• 22:52
  If you think about most a lot of leaders that will say went to the business schools and stuff
• 22:56
  like that, they learn how to lead and from certain models, those types of things.
• 22:59
  And we know that what's needed more so is just shoulder to shoulder, right?
• 23:03
  Like to be able
• 23:04
  to Absolutely.
• 23:06
  A lot of experts are afraid to kind of take that step sometimes.
• 23:09
  They want to be relatable, but they're not sure how to do it.
• 23:12
  It's all relative.
• 23:13
  I mean, to me, it's the same as adding humor to a keynote.
• 23:18
  It's humor is seasoning.
• 23:21
  It's not the main ingredient.
• 23:23
  Right?
• 23:23
  So you just want a little if you think of it like salt.
• 23:26
  So some situations on stage or in a leadership position or not leadership, but I mean, there
• 23:34
  are moments when it's appropriate to be a little saltier, to have a more generous hand
• 23:40
  with the seasoning.
• 23:41
  Yeah.
• 23:42
  Yeah.
• 23:42
  But even just a little bit.
• 23:45
  Think about a few flakes of sea salt on chocolate.
• 23:48
  It's transformative.
• 23:49
  Right?
• 23:50
  So if you're a leader, maybe it's just having the self awareness.
• 23:55
  If you know that maybe it's a little bit of understatement.
• 23:58
  Maybe it's just when something doesn't go well go that didn't work.
• 24:02
  Maybe it's just a tiny thing or maybe it's just a tiny a tiny bit of self awareness.
• 24:09
  If you have if you know how you come across to people, if you know that people are thinking,
• 24:15
  if he starts talking, it's gonna be forty minutes at least.
• 24:19
  If you go, this I'm only gonna keep you for a minute.
• 24:22
  Okay?
• 24:23
  It'll probably be fifteen.
• 24:24
  If you just have that just that tiny little bit of self awareness, if you're reflecting back to
• 24:29
  your audience or your team or whoever it is, what's in that thought bubble above their head?
• 24:37
  And that's what creates emotional connection.
• 24:40
  That's what makes people feel seen and heard because it's all a dialogue interpersonally.
• 24:47
  Right?
• 24:47
  Even if you're on the only one on stage holding a microphone, it's a dialogue between you and
• 24:52
  the audience.
• 24:53
  If you're a leader and you're speaking to one person or your entire team, even if you're the
• 24:58
  only one speaking, it's still a dialogue.
• 25:00
  They are they all have their own opinion.
• 25:03
  They all have anything you can do to connect with them emotionally and also remove any
• 25:08
  potential distractions.
• 25:10
  We've all been in meetings watching someone speak and you you can just feel everyone's
• 25:15
  catching each other's eye, everything's go it's ineffective.
• 25:19
  So if you're a leader, can you acknowledge what that elephant in the room is so that everyone
• 25:26
  else isn't obsessed with it?
• 25:28
  So you're not you're not losing your crowd and say, you're naming it in the room and then to
• 25:33
  kind of get them back to where you want them to be.
• 25:36
  Because it's more awkward to pretend everything
• 25:38
  Is okay.
• 25:39
  Is is okay.
• 25:40
  Yeah.
• 25:43
  And it doesn't and you don't again, you don't have to be touchy feely kumbaya.
• 25:48
  It's just it's can you reflect back some part of what's in the thought bubble above the heads
• 25:56
  of the people or person that you're speaking to?
• 25:58
  Because they're all having thoughts about you and what you're saying and, oh my goodness,
• 26:02
  here's
• 26:02
  Or the situation.
• 26:03
  Or the situation.
• 26:04
  The situation.
• 26:05
  To maybe communicate about the new IT program that everybody hates and you're gonna come and
• 26:10
  we're gonna talk about the what an impressive system and how this is gonna make every and
• 26:14
  everybody's going, what?
• 26:15
  I don't know.
• 26:16
  Yeah.
• 26:17
  You thinking?
• 26:17
  If you could speak to point, then people Because you're kind of thinking what people be
• 26:23
  thinking?
• 26:24
  And you're actually, like you said, with specificity, I'll get that word.
• 26:29
  Then you can bring it back into the room and the related ability.
• 26:34
  Because I talk a lot about, in my second book, about return on relationship versus return on
• 26:39
  investment.
• 26:40
  Because I will say to leaders, if you're able to be aware, right, and you're taking it down
• 26:45
  even further with the element of humour, if you're aware that you come across kind of down
• 26:52
  the middle, you get more microscopic when you're stressed, and you can say, I'm going to
• 26:57
  be really laissez faire today, they're going to laugh because they know that's not you kind of
• 27:02
  thing.
• 27:02
  So I think I like that element because you could poke a bit of fun at not being
• 27:07
  denigrating, like you said, but a little bit of fun at yourself so that they could say, Wow,
• 27:11
  Roxanne gets that.
• 27:13
  It's all relative.
• 27:14
  Yeah, exactly.
• 27:15
  The more buttoned up you are, the less it takes.
• 27:18
  Then there really is those sea salt flakes of sea salt on chocolate.
• 27:22
  Working with speakers who say, I'm not funny.
• 27:24
  Great.
• 27:26
  Or I'm not
• 27:26
  That would be me.
• 27:27
  I would say that.
• 27:28
  I'd be like, I'm not funny.
• 27:29
  And then you realize you are funny.
• 27:31
  I grew up in Trinidad, Beth, where there's something called, the term in Trinidad is
• 27:36
  called fatigue, which is basically making fun, right?
• 27:39
  And basically people sit around and they tell stories.
• 27:43
  We call it cracking jokes, right?
• 27:45
  Which is literally, you're kind of just telling a story and that some people are just better at
• 27:50
  it.
• 27:51
  But even as children, you see that, you know, we all kind of start to learn to, which is,
• 27:55
  it's such a, it's a nice place to hang out too, right, obviously.
• 27:58
  Because you just have conversations about nothing sometimes.
• 28:02
  But you're learning that whole element of, like you said, to your point, connection.
• 28:07
  With leaders that are listening and they're thinking, my goodness, I'm just so, like you
• 28:12
  said, buttoned up and I realize that I need to work.
• 28:17
  I'm a good leader, but I'm kind of not maybe my team wouldn't say I'm as much fun as I could be
• 28:24
  or as approachable.
• 28:26
  What are some quick things that we already talked a little bit about that, like little
• 28:29
  things they can do?
• 28:30
  Is there anything, a couple steps that you would suggest they consider?
• 28:35
  I'm gonna sound like I'm being a smart aleck.
• 28:37
  I don't mean it that way.
• 28:38
  Show that there is a person somewhere inside if something amusing happens.
• 28:42
  Just smile because everyone's probably gonna look at you to see if you are or not.
• 28:47
  And if you, you know, and if you smile in spite of yourself and you don't like I mean, you can
• 28:51
  also just say, you didn't see that.
• 28:54
  I mean, even that, simply because in that, you're really saying, I know that how you see
• 29:00
  me.
• 29:00
  I know that you think that I never ever smile.
• 29:03
  Simply acknowledging that is is something that you can do.
• 29:06
  I would invite you to share something about yourself or ask people how you come across.
• 29:15
  I realize there are dynamics in business where you can't always be as open, but there's
• 29:19
  probably there are probably opportunities when you can say, alright.
• 29:24
  Well, if you were doing an impression of me, what would it be?
• 29:28
  And you'll get it immediately.
• 29:31
  Yeah.
• 29:31
  And then it so just but just really, honestly, the easiest one is simply to smile and simply
• 29:38
  to acknowledge the elephant in the room when it's there.
• 29:41
  It doesn't undermine your credibility to acknowledge the fact that you are human.
• 29:48
  Yeah.
• 29:49
  And I've been in those meetings over my corporate career, and the house is on fire, and
• 29:53
  the leader at the front of the room is acting like nothing's going on.
• 29:57
  Not one of us obviously was listening.
• 30:00
  When there's a merger or an acquisition coming down or something bad happened at the quarterly
• 30:04
  board meeting or something like that.
• 30:06
  And technically that leader could have done anything and we're to have gotten our
• 30:11
  attention.
• 30:11
  But some people are so unaware to your point.
• 30:14
  You talked a lot about awareness.
• 30:16
  And they're just they have five things they have to get across and they don't care what's
• 30:20
  going on and they keep at it.
• 30:22
  And that works across purposes to what they should be doing, which is
• 30:27
  because there's such a big distraction that people aren't listening.
• 30:29
  Yeah.
• 30:30
  I was at a professional organization that I'm a member of, was having some financial
• 30:37
  difficulties.
• 30:38
  And there were people were stepping down, and there were all sorts of things happening.
• 30:41
  And then all of this sort of played out in in the couple of weeks before the yearly
• 30:45
  conference.
• 30:46
  The big conference where everyone comes and Yeah.
• 30:49
  It's also a lot of fun.
• 30:51
  And so the interim president kicked off the conference.
• 30:55
  We all showed up.
• 30:56
  But I know I had that thought bubble above my head of, yeah, is this gonna overshadow the
• 31:02
  whole conference?
• 31:02
  Is this gonna be this whole thing just gonna be a drag now?
• 31:06
  And so the interim president, who was the interim president because of all the
• 31:10
  reshuffling, opened opened with before even the first keynote, he opened with before I say
• 31:19
  anything else, I have to acknowledge the elephant in the room.
• 31:22
  There is no elephant.
• 31:23
  We can't afford one.
• 31:26
  And it it was such a small thing, but it Yeah.
• 31:29
  Yeah.
• 31:29
  Everything that was between the lines in that was I know there's a whole bunch going on, but
• 31:36
  let's relieve a little bit of that tension.
• 31:39
  Just it was it got a massive I mean, it it brought the house down because it it it
• 31:46
  acknowledged exactly what everybody was thinking.
• 31:50
  And it and it let everybody kind of take a breath and think, okay.
• 31:53
  This isn't gonna overshadow the next three days.
• 31:57
  I mean, it's obviously it's an issue.
• 31:59
  It's a big issue.
• 32:01
  But we're gonna be able to laugh.
• 32:04
  Yeah.
• 32:06
  See your Emmys in the I see your Emmys in the back there.
• 32:09
  I just looked over.
• 32:10
  There's two of them.
• 32:11
  I'm not allowed to keep them all out.
• 32:13
  It would just be
• 32:15
  It would be too fluttered.
• 32:16
  Obnoxious.
• 32:16
  I
• 32:20
  didn't even have these out.
• 32:22
  I just looked over and I went, oh, I know what those are.
• 32:25
  I got tired of being asked, how come you don't have any of them out?
• 32:28
  Then, oh, if you want to get speaking gigs when you have those discovery calls, you should have
• 32:31
  them out.
• 32:32
  Talking about self awareness as a tool.
• 32:34
  Like, I didn't want to not have self awareness.
• 32:36
  I mean, self awareness is I
• 32:37
  I just have it to look over.
• 32:38
  I thought, oh, I think I know what that is.
• 32:41
  I'm still torn between the self awareness of people being impressed by them and it sort of
• 32:45
  helping add to my credibility and the self awareness of I'm not sure what I would think if
• 32:51
  someone else had them out.
• 32:53
  So
• 32:53
  Oh, think I just I'm totally because again, you're talking about the writing and as a
• 32:59
  writer as well, I write, but that element of connection, like when you write anything,
• 33:06
  people want to experience you in the writing, right?
• 33:09
  That's the thing about now being an author.
• 33:11
  And when you say my dad wrote my read my first book, and my sisters are like, oh my goodness,
• 33:16
  you so would say that sentence that way.
• 33:19
  So you could tell, right?
• 33:20
  So that whole element.
• 33:21
  And then your element of talking about taking something and kind of peppering it with little
• 33:27
  elements to connect with others is another level, right?
• 33:30
  Whether it's a, like you said, at end of your meeting, if you're a CEO or you're Monday
• 33:36
  morning meeting once a week kind of thing, you have a responsibility to really refine what
• 33:42
  you're doing so that you can deliver the best possible message.
• 33:46
  Right?
• 33:47
  You don't always have to be on a stage or anything like that because it it could be as
• 33:51
  impressive as that one to one person that you see every Wednesday at that check-in meeting to
• 33:57
  be able to connect to them because that's a whole element is just understanding what it
• 34:01
  takes to connect with somebody else.
• 34:03
  Yeah.
• 34:04
  I mean, if something crazy happens or if you're a speaker or a leader, adding humor or that
• 34:12
  relatability can be as simple as using, one, being just being honest.
• 34:17
  Mhmm.
• 34:17
  But using an example, if you're trying to if you're talking about customer service or
• 34:24
  customer experience, what was your first job?
• 34:27
  How did it go wrong?
• 34:29
  What did customers not enjoy about you?
• 34:32
  What did customer who were you difficult customers?
• 34:34
  What were their exact be specific then.
• 34:36
  What were their exact criticisms?
• 34:41
  If you're looking for things firsts and worsts are usually stories.
• 34:45
  Worst
• 34:46
  job, worst version of this, worst if you're talking about your own experience, your own
• 34:51
  learning curve, what were the speed bumps that you hit along your learning curve?
• 34:56
  It's okay to be a little bit vulnerable.
• 34:59
  Also, analogies.
• 35:00
  Find organic or organic opportunities to add humor in your talk or in your content or even
• 35:08
  just in your networking, but using analogies.
• 35:12
  Sometimes have some fun with them.
• 35:15
  Go to you know, it doesn't have to be full on setup punchline.
• 35:22
  It can it it should well, it should always be in the service of the greater point that you're
• 35:27
  making.
• 35:28
  Humor is a seasoning.
• 35:29
  It's not the main ingredient.
• 35:33
  You are the main ingredient.
• 35:34
  Your message is the main ingredient.
• 35:37
  And humor and, again, I'm sort of now using that word in quotes.
• 35:43
  But there should always be an intent behind it.
• 35:49
  It shouldn't be gratuitous.
• 35:50
  Because if it's gratuitous, that becomes a distraction.
• 35:54
  But if you're using it to make a point of sometimes you have to deal with difficult
• 35:58
  customers, give us a good example.
• 36:00
  Or if your point is you've been through a similar journey and you got out the other side,
• 36:07
  what were some real things that happened during that or that are relatable?
• 36:13
  They might be a tiny bit embarrassing, but you're using it in the service of explaining to
• 36:18
  other people this stuff isn't easy.
• 36:22
  Failure is part of the process.
• 36:24
  Yeah.
• 36:25
  Of course.
• 36:26
  So, Beth, this has been an amazing conversation.
• 36:28
  I love how you just deconstructed it in a way that's easy to understand, whether you're a
• 36:35
  speaker that's gonna be on a platform or you're gonna have the dreadly management meeting once
• 36:41
  a week kind of thing, and you're trying to think about how you could just have people just
• 36:46
  see you for who you are.
• 36:48
  And then like you said, I love the analogy of the salt on the chalk.
• 36:54
  I can remember that now, right?
• 36:55
  So that everything doesn't I don't feel like I have to be cracking a joke every time or
• 37:00
  whatever.
• 37:01
  And I think too, if you are doing it more professionally, that refinement, that Like your
• 37:07
  example of the Monday lead to the Friday, kind of how much work it takes for you to be with a
• 37:14
  room full of If it's 10 guys writing and rewriting and laughing and writing, how much
• 37:20
  work it takes to really perfect things.
• 37:22
  And then, like you said, you go out there and most of it works, but sometimes it doesn't.
• 37:26
  But you have to really work hard to make things better.
• 37:29
  Yeah.
• 37:30
  And don't give up on it.
• 37:31
  I write, I speak all the time.
• 37:33
  I go out and
• 37:34
  I think, I thought that was going to get something else.
• 37:36
  But don't give up on it.
• 37:38
  Think of it again, this is what happens when I do podcasts around dinnertime.
• 37:42
  But if you think of it like a recipe Yeah.
• 37:45
  It's another food analogy coming.
• 37:46
  But if you think of it like a recipe, first time you make a recipe, if it doesn't come out
• 37:50
  perfectly, it might come out fine.
• 37:53
  And you're like, oh, this is fine.
• 37:55
  Yeah.
• 37:56
  You don't sort
• 37:56
  of say, I'm never making spaghetti bolognese again.
• 37:59
  You think, oh, it's fine.
• 38:01
  But I think next time, probably more garlic, probably more salt, probably Yeah.
• 38:06
  Maybe a little cream, a little bit of this, a little bit of that.
• 38:09
  I'm gonna leave that out.
• 38:10
  I'm gonna add that.
• 38:11
  That's all.
• 38:11
  It's iterative.
• 38:12
  It doesn't mean that it doesn't work and it never will work or be a crowd pleaser.
• 38:16
  Absolutely.
• 38:18
  So, Beth, I'm sure people that are listening will want to know kind of what you offer and
• 38:23
  kind of what, like you said, you work with businesses around the element of connection, of
• 38:30
  which humor is one of the ways you do that.
• 38:33
  Why don't you tell everybody what you offer and if every anybody is wanting to reach out and
• 38:38
  connect where they can get ahold of you.
• 38:41
  I my very clever website is bethsherman.com.
• 38:46
  That's you don't get daytime Emmys for nothing.
• 38:49
  So that's my website.
• 38:51
  And, yeah, I I speak and I do master classes on how to use how to connect with people, how to
• 38:59
  speak with impact, how to use humor in leadership.
• 39:03
  But really, again, it's taking leadership back into just simply being a people skill and how
• 39:09
  do you create emotional connection, how do you build trust and rapport with people in
• 39:13
  leadership?
• 39:14
  And I speak a lot of sales conferences.
• 39:16
  And I also work one to one with speakers who want help adding seasoning to the to their
• 39:24
  keynotes so that they are not just more memorable, but more engaging and, as speakers,
• 39:30
  more bookable.
• 39:32
  Because people really leave having enjoyed it and having taken away they leave with a message
• 39:39
  that you wanna put in them.
• 39:41
  Because laughter and smiles create their emotion, and emotion is a it's necessary to
• 39:50
  build trust.
• 39:51
  It it can be you can create tears.
• 39:53
  It's just less fun.
• 39:55
  But emotion is a building block of trust, and you need trust before you're gonna get people
• 39:59
  to take action.
• 40:00
  And that action could be buying from you or working with your company, but it could just be
• 40:05
  as small as giving you the benefit of the doubt and continuing to listen to you for another few
• 40:09
  minutes.
• 40:10
  Well, awesome.
• 40:11
  For everybody thinking of putting a little bit of sea salt on their chocolate in whatever
• 40:16
  element, please reach out to Beth.
• 40:18
  And for me, if you're looking to find out about your authentic connections and relationships,
• 40:24
  you can go to RoxanderHodgefor.com/quiz.
• 40:27
  We will do a mini quiz, and we'll send you back the results with some next steps.
• 40:31
  Again, Beth, this has been amazing.
• 40:32
  I am going to now go review my keynote and think about where I need to work on things.
• 40:38
  For the leaders that are thinking it doesn't have to be a huge thing, to Beth's point.
• 40:44
  It could be something really simple, like mentioning what's going on in everybody's mind
• 40:49
  that you know you're not addressing.
• 40:51
  It could be that simple to be able to create that connection.
• 40:54
  So everyone, thanks for hanging out with us again.
• 40:56
  Give us a review on iTunes if you liked today's podcast, and reach out to Beth, and we'll chat
• 41:03
  again with you next week.
• 41:04
  Again, Beth, thanks so much.
• 41:06
  Take care, everyone.
• 41:06
  Thank you.
• 41:09
  Thanks for tuning in to Authentic Living with Roxanne, creating the space for positive,
• 41:15
  healthy change.
• 41:16
  Roxanne is a keynote speaker, psychotherapist, and coach.
• 41:20
  To work with Roxanne, visit RoxanneDurhaj.com/blueprint.
• 41:26
  We'll see you next time on Authentic Living with Roxanne.