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Headless Magical Mailbag- Rod and Ring and More · The Occult Rejects

• 0:02
  Speaker 1: You see, something's going to happen.
• 0:06
  Speaker 2: What what's going to happen?
• 0:12
  Speaker 3: I'll take one?
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: What help?
• 0:24
  Speaker 3: What's up? Everybody? Welcome to another Headless's Magical Mailbag. Go
• 0:28
  Speaker 3: ahead and like the stream and share with your friends.
• 0:31
  Speaker 3: Let's get right into it. So let's see, we got
• 0:35
  Speaker 3: a big show coming up tomorrow with Julia. We're talking
• 0:37
  Speaker 3: about Gremlins, right, yes.
• 0:39
  Speaker 4: Yes, Gin's yeah, kin kind of keep it for the Christmas,
• 0:42
  Speaker 4: you know, season.
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: Going, you know, Gremlins, die Hard, Hope, he's good for Christmas.
• 0:46
  Speaker 3: Indeed, there's an invisible pantheon of all these movies that
• 0:50
  Speaker 3: sort of merge together into the single Christmas idea.
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: Death and money.
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we got that. Go ahead.
• 1:01
  Speaker 3: So I've been to these uh, you know, nostalgia cafes
• 1:05
  Speaker 3: and it's like, so this is what it feels like
• 1:07
  Speaker 3: to be old. Yeah, yeah, all the stuff from the eighties,
• 1:12
  Speaker 3: and I'm like, I recognize all this. This is from
• 1:14
  Speaker 3: my childhood.
• 1:15
  Speaker 4: What the Yeah, I was like, I had that lunch box. Right,
• 1:20
  Speaker 4: You're like, fuck, wow, I'm old. I'm nostalgic now, right.
• 1:25
  Speaker 3: I remember going to the Nostalgia Blazes with my parents
• 1:27
  Speaker 3: and thinking how old they were. They just remembered all
• 1:31
  Speaker 3: that stuff firsthand.
• 1:32
  Speaker 4: So yeah, right, your music, wished music that we listened
• 1:35
  Speaker 4: to is already could be considered classic by now right,
• 1:38
  Speaker 4: which is crazy.
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 1:41
  Speaker 3: I stay away from the classic rock stations because I
• 1:43
  Speaker 3: don't want to feel that.
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:46
  Speaker 4: Yeah, another thing we got coming up too. We got
• 1:50
  Speaker 4: Greg K from a Cult of Personality coming on Saturday.
• 1:52
  Speaker 4: That's a pretty big show in the ecult community. So
• 1:55
  Speaker 4: pretty impressed.
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: Pull very nice. Yeah, looking forward to that.
• 1:57
  Speaker 3: Very nice. What's his special?
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: What does he uh, you know, what tell you the
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: truth in practicing?
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 2:03
  Speaker 4: I just know he's always had like these. He just
• 2:05
  Speaker 4: has all these big name guests on from the ecult community.
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: That's all right.
• 2:09
  Speaker 4: Yeah, it was kind of like somebody like him, And
• 2:11
  Speaker 4: Ruin Soup was well, Rune Soup, I know what he's
• 2:13
  Speaker 4: into because he talks about it oftenly. But those two
• 2:16
  Speaker 4: shows I remember, like when I was in the occult
• 2:18
  Speaker 4: community kind of like just practicing and not really in
• 2:20
  Speaker 4: the conspiracy community. Those were like kind of like the
• 2:22
  Speaker 4: Tint and Foil hat fucking podcasts of the occult community,
• 2:26
  Speaker 4: so exciting them in like Glyitch Bottle, you know who,
• 2:30
  Speaker 4: you know, those great shows.
• 2:34
  Speaker 3: That's been good. I like the shift that we're sort
• 2:36
  Speaker 3: of moving away from like all the conspiracy stuff, focusing
• 2:40
  Speaker 3: solely on the occult stuff because there's so much more
• 2:44
  Speaker 3: scholarship and like actual yeah, you know, writings about this
• 2:49
  Speaker 3: stuff that's kind of professional as opposed to like the lizards.
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there's too much like yeah, yeah, I hear what
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: you're saying.
• 2:57
  Speaker 4: This is a little bit more like, I guess, fact
• 2:59
  Speaker 4: than fiction when it comes to covering this stuff believe
• 3:01
  Speaker 4: it or.
• 3:01
  Speaker 3: Not, right, which is crazy when you think about it exactly.
• 3:08
  Speaker 3: So I got my symbol here, let's go to this one.
• 3:14
  Speaker 3: This is the hieroglyph for shut, or the Egyptian concept
• 3:18
  Speaker 3: of the soul, So this is it's also known as
• 3:23
  Speaker 3: the shadow, so they called it the shut pronounced shoot,
• 3:28
  Speaker 3: to be another part of a person's soul. There are
• 3:31
  Speaker 3: very few pictures of the shut, but it's normally depicted
• 3:35
  Speaker 3: as a silhouette with a single eye. So it was
• 3:40
  Speaker 3: said to be for opening the tomb for the bos
• 3:42
  Speaker 3: spirit and the shadow so that they may go out
• 3:45
  Speaker 3: in the day. These two elements, the Ba and the shut,
• 3:49
  Speaker 3: often appear in similar contexts like the Book of the Dead,
• 3:55
  Speaker 3: so that is the shut. Now I want to see
• 3:57
  Speaker 3: what the other version looks like, but I couldn't find
• 4:00
  Speaker 3: it anywhere, and it was hard to even find this one.
• 4:02
  Speaker 3: So what do you think of that It seems like
• 4:06
  Speaker 3: a mushroom?
• 4:06
  Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, right, I think it's kind of funny how
• 4:09
  Speaker 4: it looks a little bit likely the thing I was
• 4:11
  Speaker 4: gonna show. That's really but I mean a little bit.
• 4:14
  Speaker 4: But yeah, it does look like a mushroom.
• 4:18
  Speaker 3: Right, And this would just be the word. This isn't
• 4:20
  Speaker 3: the actual like picture of the shut, but I feel
• 4:23
  Speaker 3: like going out in the day means some sort of
• 4:27
  Speaker 3: relationship to maybe a shadow that can, you know, be
• 4:33
  Speaker 3: visible during the daytime, or some kind of a spirit
• 4:36
  Speaker 3: that actually has corporeal form during the daytime. It reminded
• 4:40
  Speaker 3: me of shadow people a lot. They've got the shadow
• 4:44
  Speaker 3: as the sort of soul or this wandering image of
• 4:47
  Speaker 3: a soul. But who knows. Maybe they had different languages
• 4:50
  Speaker 3: and this was from a different culture that just sort
• 4:52
  Speaker 3: of got integrated there because they had so many different
• 4:55
  Speaker 3: words for the different parts of the soul. It's really
• 4:58
  Speaker 3: hard to know.
• 4:59
  Speaker 4: That would act should be an interesting topic if we
• 5:01
  Speaker 4: covered all that.
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: That is, so the Egyptian soul.
• 5:05
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a whole ass Yeah, that's what I'm saying that.
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what I'm saying.
• 5:11
  Speaker 4: That's a whole fucking probably few shows if you really
• 5:13
  Speaker 4: want to get into it, all right, Yeah, I.
• 5:16
  Speaker 3: Do like who like Cathonic imagery, Just Cathonic imagery from
• 5:22
  Speaker 3: all over the place. I think that'd be.
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: Hell, yeah, that would be.
• 5:25
  Speaker 3: Actually I found was that a lot of the Cathonic
• 5:29
  Speaker 3: gods aren't supposed to be named, Like you're not supposed
• 5:33
  Speaker 3: to say their name out loud because that'll get their attentions.
• 5:38
  Speaker 3: But yeah, so interesting. I wonder if I'll have any
• 5:41
  Speaker 3: shadow then, because I said, shit.
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: Oh shit, oh shit, shot.
• 5:47
  Speaker 3: All right, let's see what you got here.
• 5:48
  Speaker 4: All right now, I was trying to copyhead this a
• 5:51
  Speaker 4: little bit. So, oh what is this? This is called
• 5:55
  Speaker 4: the rod and ring Mesopotamia's measure of kingship. The rod
• 5:59
  Speaker 4: and ring almost always shown together in a god's grasp,
• 6:02
  Speaker 4: a straight measuring rod beside a loop that many scholars
• 6:06
  Speaker 4: read as a coiled cord or line. On Hamarabi's stella,
• 6:12
  Speaker 4: Samas offers them to the king and uh yeah, and
• 6:17
  Speaker 4: Hamarabi stelly Sammaras offers them to the king. In other works,
• 6:21
  Speaker 4: the deity simply holds them as emblems of divine prerogative
• 6:24
  Speaker 4: or kind of symbol. Modern synthesis synthesis describes the pair
• 6:30
  Speaker 4: of as surveying instruments the rod in line used to
• 6:35
  Speaker 4: lay out straight foundations and to ensure a fair measure,
• 6:39
  Speaker 4: hence their tight connection to justice. Alternate readings kind of
• 6:44
  Speaker 4: would consider it a scepter or a datum, or a
• 6:47
  Speaker 4: shepherd's crook or rope.
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: My opinion, I mean, I don't know.
• 6:54
  Speaker 4: I think this is one of those things that when
• 6:56
  Speaker 4: the scholars telling you what the ship this this ship means,
• 6:58
  Speaker 4: I think that gets lost because I think it's a
• 7:00
  Speaker 4: little bit more than just or even they could be right,
• 7:03
  Speaker 4: but it's probably more of me, deeper of a mathematic
• 7:06
  Speaker 4: understanding than what they're getting, you know, what they think
• 7:09
  Speaker 4: it is.
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: That's just my opinion.
• 7:13
  Speaker 3: If I held this thing and they made a picture
• 7:15
  Speaker 3: of me holding this thing and some king held the
• 7:18
  Speaker 3: same thing, would that make me a king? And they
• 7:21
  Speaker 3: don't really think like that, so they're like, oh, it's
• 7:23
  Speaker 3: a symbol of royalty. Actually it could be something completely different,
• 7:26
  Speaker 3: but you're just associating with royalty, because that's how you
• 7:29
  Speaker 3: see holding it. But it could have been doing something
• 7:31
  Speaker 3: else entirely.
• 7:32
  Speaker 4: It was like, remember when we were kids, didn't they
• 7:34
  Speaker 4: have like a stick and a hoop that people used
• 7:36
  Speaker 4: to play with. Oh, that was even before ros Maybe
• 7:38
  Speaker 4: that's what he was doing. That's a toy when it
• 7:44
  Speaker 4: first shows up and where it travels you get it
• 7:46
  Speaker 4: in youre from the Around the twenty first century BCE,
• 7:52
  Speaker 4: fragments of the ern Namu Stelli already show a great
• 7:55
  Speaker 4: God presenting the rotten ring to the Samerian king. One
• 7:58
  Speaker 4: of the earliest clearest renderings of the chords as coiled line,
• 8:03
  Speaker 4: an old Babylonian eighteenth century BCE, the Stellae of Hammurabi
• 8:09
  Speaker 4: fixes the image in a global imagination some asses and throne,
• 8:13
  Speaker 4: extending the pair below that there will be about four
• 8:17
  Speaker 4: thousand plus lines of supposed legal text.
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: That's another thing too.
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  Speaker 4: A lot of times I just wonder, like this stuff
• 8:24
  Speaker 4: that they're saying is like legal texts, or like, oh,
• 8:27
  Speaker 4: it's just talking about like you know, how many grains
• 8:29
  Speaker 4: were sold today?
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: Is that correct? I don't know.
• 8:32
  Speaker 4: Maybe the Levar's Catalog explicitly describes the God tendant circle
• 8:39
  Speaker 4: at Batan offering a circle and staff.
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: That's what that meant on the Euphrates.
• 8:46
  Speaker 4: Around eighteenth century BCE, the Palace Fresco, known as an
• 8:50
  Speaker 4: investiture of Zimri Limb shows Istar conferring the rod and
• 8:57
  Speaker 4: ring and a state right. The painting was found in
• 9:01
  Speaker 4: Court one O six Court of the Palms and is.
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: Now in Louvre wherever Lovre is.
• 9:08
  Speaker 4: There's another one that's from a Neo Assyrian from second
• 9:14
  Speaker 4: century to the first first of BCE, and uh on Kaduru,
• 9:20
  Speaker 4: which is boundary stones and cylinder seals.
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: You'll see it the album.
• 9:24
  Speaker 4: The emblems reoccur among divine symbols that guaranteed grants and
• 9:28
  Speaker 4: oats visual mico contracts. Any viewer could read museum's note
• 9:35
  Speaker 4: that explains how much museums. Museum notes explain how much
• 9:38
  Speaker 4: stones combined images of the gods with legal texts what
• 9:44
  Speaker 4: it means to them. Some people are saying the text
• 9:48
  Speaker 4: and Sumerian him Nana's descent. The goddess outfits herself with
• 9:53
  Speaker 4: lapis lazuli, measuring rod and measuring line before entering the underworld.
• 9:59
  Speaker 4: Proof that rod in line were named tools of measure
• 10:03
  Speaker 4: in sacred context get if they're understanding it correctly. I
• 10:08
  Speaker 4: would even wonder if that has something to do with
• 10:10
  Speaker 4: linear I mean time in itself. Those shapes could be
• 10:14
  Speaker 4: linear circular.
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: Iconography.
• 10:19
  Speaker 4: Scholarly treatments of Haram Hamurabi and Marie's investiture argue that
• 10:25
  Speaker 4: pair are surveying and measurement instruments, implying for laying out
• 10:28
  Speaker 4: straight foundations and by extension, for establishing order.
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: Equity and just rule. Who made it?
• 10:39
  Speaker 4: And you know, according to this it could have just
• 10:42
  Speaker 4: been pretty much just people that were into building that stuff,
• 10:46
  Speaker 4: people into stone plaster. There isn't any specific name a
• 10:49
  Speaker 4: person that it goes back to. I mean, that's really
• 10:54
  Speaker 4: it just figured cover that one.
• 10:57
  Speaker 3: It seems like that could be a crossbar for a scale, right,
• 11:02
  Speaker 3: so if you hang something off on one end and
• 11:04
  Speaker 3: you hang something on the other end, then it's sort
• 11:06
  Speaker 3: of balancing between the.
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: Two of them. Yeah, you know what I mean.
• 11:09
  Speaker 3: So it's like it's a measuring device certainly, but it's
• 11:12
  Speaker 3: just not hooked up to the two baskets on either side.
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 11:16
  Speaker 4: I just feel like sometimes he's something The way that
• 11:19
  Speaker 4: they look at this stuff, I just don't know.
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: I question how close they are to it.
• 11:25
  Speaker 4: Right, it's just you know, what the thing is is
• 11:27
  Speaker 4: just like I don't know, like all the other shit
• 11:30
  Speaker 4: that's probably like if I was to show this.
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: Image, I mean, we all know what it is probably anyway,
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: if we were.
• 11:35
  Speaker 4: To show that image, it'd be so much a cult
• 11:37
  Speaker 4: art on it already that it's just like that, that's
• 11:40
  Speaker 4: really just that and that's it, you know what I'm saying, Like,
• 11:43
  Speaker 4: it just doesn't seem to fit in with everything else
• 11:45
  Speaker 4: in mind trying to be told and said.
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: I mean, they could be right, but I just feel like,
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: I don't.
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: Know, there's something else besides what they're saying. Right.
• 11:53
  Speaker 3: It just reminded me of the the Libra glyph, you know, yeah,
• 11:57
  Speaker 3: you just take that little part out then you know
• 12:00
  Speaker 3: on leavers the scale so exactly.
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, and measuring again, Yeah, I mean I'm getting it.
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: I mean it could be but like what are we
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: measuring for? All?
• 12:10
  Speaker 4: We know? That could be like what you're going on
• 12:12
  Speaker 4: with the two different types of time.
• 12:14
  Speaker 3: Right, Yeah. The cultural context for this stuff is so
• 12:20
  Speaker 3: you know, obscured by history because this could be slang.
• 12:24
  Speaker 3: You know, nobody thinks of that. This could be a
• 12:26
  Speaker 3: slang for something else.
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: So yo, you think that?
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: Yo? I never thought of that.
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: You think they had slang back then?
• 12:32
  Speaker 3: They had to have, right, Oh, of course, yeah.
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: I wonder what they like.
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: I wonder what the ship was like and what their
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: ship talking was like back then.
• 12:41
  Speaker 4: I'm sure they weren't going around saying six to seven.
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: Or they were Yeah, and it actually meant something, right.
• 12:51
  Speaker 3: Well, think about the sat or square right, So all
• 12:55
  Speaker 3: these people were using it. I very very much doubt
• 12:58
  Speaker 3: that any of them really understood it. It was that s
• 13:00
  Speaker 3: you know, they just sort of made it. I yes,
• 13:07
  Speaker 3: we thought it looked cool. Excuse me, we got any
• 13:13
  Speaker 3: what we do? This one is by jay A?
• 13:16
  Speaker 4: Did you did you? Did you read any of it before?
• 13:21
  Speaker 4: Always makes me nervous. I don't check the smell before
• 13:23
  Speaker 4: you start reading.
• 13:25
  Speaker 3: I don't. I want to poison myself.
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: No, I get it.
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: I get it now, I do. I do get it though.
• 13:31
  Speaker 3: This one is from Jaya. It says, all right, jets,
• 13:35
  Speaker 3: here's one for you. Many years ago, I joined in
• 13:37
  Speaker 3: a cult organization. I won't say which one, excuse me.
• 13:43
  Speaker 3: I immediately began receiving phone calls from members asking me to
• 13:46
  Speaker 3: hang out, which was fine. By me except for one thing.
• 13:49
  Speaker 3: Within a few days of hanging out with them, I
• 13:51
  Speaker 3: get a phone call from one of the leaders of
• 13:54
  Speaker 3: the organization who would repeat back to me what I'd
• 13:57
  Speaker 3: shared in private with my new friends, and even worse,
• 14:03
  Speaker 3: admonish the things I'd discussed. Needless to say, I did
• 14:07
  Speaker 3: not appreciate. Oh he's got one too, it looks like
• 14:12
  Speaker 3: those are separated.
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 14:15
  Speaker 3: Sorry, I didn't know if they were separated or actually together,
• 14:20
  Speaker 3: so that sort of clears it up for me. Maybe
• 14:23
  Speaker 3: there was a sort of a game that they would
• 14:25
  Speaker 3: play in the hand that would show mastery, and then
• 14:30
  Speaker 3: maybe that's kingling or something. I don't know.
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 14:34
  Speaker 3: Needless to say, not only did I not appreciate my
• 14:37
  Speaker 3: new friends betraying my trust, I also did not take
• 14:40
  Speaker 3: kindly to someone trying to control every facet of the
• 14:43
  Speaker 3: personal path I was trying to walk. This all quickly
• 14:48
  Speaker 3: culminated to a final phone call with the head guy,
• 14:51
  Speaker 3: who insulted me so deeply I literally told him to
• 14:55
  Speaker 3: go fuck himself and hung up the phone. He called
• 14:58
  Speaker 3: back several times and I refused to add Now the
• 15:01
  Speaker 3: house I lived in at the time, at a huge
• 15:04
  Speaker 3: backyard which I always kept two camping chairs in. On
• 15:08
  Speaker 3: the night of the final argument, as I was getting
• 15:11
  Speaker 3: back home and approaching the backyard, I saw what looked
• 15:14
  Speaker 3: like someone sitting in one of those chairs. It was dark,
• 15:18
  Speaker 3: so it was hard to be sure at first, but
• 15:20
  Speaker 3: as I got closer I became obvious there was a
• 15:23
  Speaker 3: pitch black figure sitting in one of my chairs. The
• 15:27
  Speaker 3: shot shot. I stopped in my tracks as I wondered
• 15:33
  Speaker 3: with someone why someone would be sitting there by himself
• 15:38
  Speaker 3: in the middle of the night and not even say
• 15:40
  Speaker 3: anything when he could clearly see me approaching. Another pitch
• 15:44
  Speaker 3: black figure came from behind me and whizzed by so
• 15:47
  Speaker 3: fast and silently that I immediately reached the conclusion that these
• 15:51
  Speaker 3: things were not human. I looked at the chair again
• 15:55
  Speaker 3: and it was now clearly empty. I turned to him,
• 15:59
  Speaker 3: mocked the glass door which led into the house, and
• 16:01
  Speaker 3: as I glanced up, a third black figure whizzed by
• 16:04
  Speaker 3: the window on the other side of the room, again
• 16:08
  Speaker 3: at an humanly fast speed, and again in complete silence.
• 16:15
  Speaker 3: I have to be honest, I had no idea what
• 16:16
  Speaker 3: to do. I unlocked the door, went straight to my room,
• 16:20
  Speaker 3: lit some candles, and tried to calm myself down. The
• 16:23
  Speaker 3: next day, a friend of mine came over and did
• 16:25
  Speaker 3: a protection ritual in the backyard. And now, I like
• 16:29
  Speaker 3: your honest opinions on something. Maybe I'm an idiot, but
• 16:32
  Speaker 3: I'll keep holding on to this idea that the exploration
• 16:35
  Speaker 3: of the secrets of the universe should involve integrity and
• 16:38
  Speaker 3: perhaps even crazy as it sounds, be used for the
• 16:42
  Speaker 3: betterment of humanity. And yet most of the people I
• 16:45
  Speaker 3: meet in these groups could not only describe I could
• 16:48
  Speaker 3: not only describe as selfish and conniving. If not pure evil,
• 16:53
  Speaker 3: does empathy have no place in the esoteric world. If
• 16:56
  Speaker 3: occult knowledge gives us extra insight, abilities, or strength, why
• 17:00
  Speaker 3: not just use it for egocentric power trips. I have
• 17:04
  Speaker 3: to be honest. I vociferously studied and explored for many years,
• 17:08
  Speaker 3: but quickly reached the conclusion that I don't want to
• 17:11
  Speaker 3: have anything to do with supernatural dark beings. I chose
• 17:15
  Speaker 3: not to cast curses, and I refuse to send shadow
• 17:18
  Speaker 3: people on anyone. And I'm still convinced that doing so
• 17:22
  Speaker 3: makes you an asshole. So on the other hand, I
• 17:24
  Speaker 3: can now say with certainty that shadow people exist. Thanks guys,
• 17:29
  Speaker 3: earnestly looking forward to your responses, JA, So as you've
• 17:33
  Speaker 3: sort of encountered that world as well, what do you
• 17:37
  Speaker 3: think I.
• 17:38
  Speaker 4: Mean, is it possible that they did that? I guess so,
• 17:41
  Speaker 4: But like, all right, how I'm gonna I would assume
• 17:47
  Speaker 4: if this guy's talking to the head motherfucker right away,
• 17:50
  Speaker 4: obviously it's probably not anything serious like this isn't the
• 17:53
  Speaker 4: O to you. There's no way I'm getting touches some
• 17:55
  Speaker 4: disease like that's just not happening. So this must have
• 17:59
  Speaker 4: been a smaller order. I'm just gonna order some like
• 18:01
  Speaker 4: something that's like, you know, like a little bit above
• 18:03
  Speaker 4: like a witch's covin, you know nothing, probably legit, legit.
• 18:08
  Speaker 4: At that point, I wouldn't be too scared because I
• 18:10
  Speaker 4: think I just have a bunch of fake motherfuckers that
• 18:12
  Speaker 4: are actually probably just trying to create an order so
• 18:14
  Speaker 4: they can you know, get pussy.
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: And make some money. Uh.
• 18:19
  Speaker 4: But you sometimes you have to wonder, you have to worry.
• 18:23
  Speaker 4: I mean, I will say I when I left the OTO,
• 18:27
  Speaker 4: I didn't really have any problems except for getting copyright
• 18:29
  Speaker 4: strike slapped on me for shit. But I don't know
• 18:34
  Speaker 4: that's a very uh that's a weird situation. I mean,
• 18:37
  Speaker 4: that's kind of shitty, uh that that would happen. But
• 18:40
  Speaker 4: I mean I don't know, uh believe it or not.
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 18:45
  Speaker 4: I probably choked that up to like something weird instead
• 18:47
  Speaker 4: of actually maybe coming from the people themselves.
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: That's just my opinion. I don't know. Like there's a
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: lot of people.
• 18:54
  Speaker 4: I just don't think in the magic community that really
• 18:56
  Speaker 4: have a fucking clue. So I don't know if i'd
• 18:58
  Speaker 4: really have to be worried about psych get attacks from people.
• 19:01
  Speaker 4: But again, you never know, right, you know, who knows.
• 19:05
  Speaker 4: I mean, it's a good thing. I will tell you
• 19:08
  Speaker 4: one thing, and you know, and now I'll go on
• 19:09
  Speaker 4: with kind of another question that he asked.
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: You're probably better off that.
• 19:12
  Speaker 4: You left these things from stuff that I had noticed,
• 19:18
  Speaker 4: I could have probably easily let people's personalities control my
• 19:22
  Speaker 4: life in the OTO. I don't know what the fuck
• 19:26
  Speaker 4: it is, man, Like I thought it was just maybe
• 19:28
  Speaker 4: my experience, and like, you know, when I left the OTO,
• 19:32
  Speaker 4: I kind of just went more into the occult, well
• 19:35
  Speaker 4: in the conspiracy community, amongst like the people talking about
• 19:38
  Speaker 4: the occult. But you know, then kind of coming back now,
• 19:43
  Speaker 4: back into the magical community of the witchcraft community and
• 19:47
  Speaker 4: not really being exposed to the OTO in just other areas. Yo,
• 19:51
  Speaker 4: there is something to fuck up with Fascism and fall
• 19:54
  Speaker 4: left shit just being pushed like this person. And when
• 19:57
  Speaker 4: I say that, fall after reason, and I'm saying that
• 20:00
  Speaker 4: is because I feel like that side, well, each side has.
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: Its own way that they fucking deal with their emotions.
• 20:06
  Speaker 4: But the left side just seems to be very, very,
• 20:11
  Speaker 4: very fucking focused on sympathy and not empathy. You have
• 20:16
  Speaker 4: to feel for fucking everyone. There's some fucking kid in
• 20:20
  Speaker 4: Zimbabwe that puts out a video and he's upset. You
• 20:22
  Speaker 4: better fucking feel for him and stand up for him too.
• 20:24
  Speaker 4: This shit is sick. It's fucking weird. They want you
• 20:30
  Speaker 4: to be a slave to everybody else and be a
• 20:32
  Speaker 4: fucking bitch.
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: It is fucking bizarre. I don't get it.
• 20:37
  Speaker 4: It's like, I understand people get into this shit because
• 20:40
  Speaker 4: they're scared as fuck, but like, go, don't expect me
• 20:42
  Speaker 4: to cook for you fucking constantly because you're just a
• 20:45
  Speaker 4: scared motherfucker getting into this shit trying to find fucking
• 20:48
  Speaker 4: power somehow.
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: It is fucking weird.
• 20:51
  Speaker 4: It's like what he's saying, like people that are gonna, like,
• 20:53
  Speaker 4: you know, start doing like psychological attacks and stuff like that.
• 20:57
  Speaker 4: People who do that, they're straight up fucking pussies, man,
• 21:02
  Speaker 4: fucking for real.
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: So, uh, you're probably better off there from.
• 21:07
  Speaker 4: But but this seems to be something that is just
• 21:10
  Speaker 4: it's it seems to be like some growing thing that like,
• 21:14
  Speaker 4: I mean, there's people who don't like even talk about
• 21:17
  Speaker 4: this shit at all on their own shows that are
• 21:19
  Speaker 4: even telling me they think this ship's getting fucking ridiculous
• 21:21
  Speaker 4: with the politics and the fucking feelings about everybody and everything,
• 21:25
  Speaker 4: telling everybody you gotta fucking cook for this, you gotta
• 21:27
  Speaker 4: cook for that, gotta act this way, you gotta act
• 21:29
  Speaker 4: that way.
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: What the fuck?
• 21:32
  Speaker 4: I came here for fucking religious freedom for some people,
• 21:35
  Speaker 4: and you're giving me more fucking rules in the church
• 21:37
  Speaker 4: with God damn it. What the fuck is wrong with
• 21:40
  Speaker 4: these people? It's fucking disturbing.
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: So yeah, it's it's not just probably your experience, man, this.
• 21:47
  Speaker 4: Is something that's just fucking constant in this community for
• 21:50
  Speaker 4: some reason, just lately the last I don't know. It's
• 21:54
  Speaker 4: so weird how people will allow a fucking comment or
• 21:57
  Speaker 4: a tweet on Twitter to manipulate the magician fucking life.
• 22:02
  Speaker 4: That is the most I mean, why the fuck are
• 22:04
  Speaker 4: you even doing this?
• 22:06
  Speaker 3: Just just stop that, Right, you can control your own responses,
• 22:12
  Speaker 3: but you can't control what other people do in the
• 22:14
  Speaker 3: first place. But I look at it kind of demographically, right,
• 22:18
  Speaker 3: So we're in sort of the fringe field, right, And
• 22:22
  Speaker 3: a lot of people in the fringe field are looking
• 22:25
  Speaker 3: for ways of trying to get power for themselves. So
• 22:28
  Speaker 3: joining up with a magical order or something that you're
• 22:30
  Speaker 3: going to find a lot of ego. You're going to
• 22:32
  Speaker 3: find a lot of people who know better than you
• 22:35
  Speaker 3: do about just about every every part of your life.
• 22:37
  Speaker 3: And they're they're kind of control freaks too, because they
• 22:40
  Speaker 3: don't feel like they have the control they want in
• 22:42
  Speaker 3: their own life. That's why they're starting these orders and stuff.
• 22:44
  Speaker 3: So in general, what you're gonna find is, unless you've
• 22:49
  Speaker 3: really really searched every every possible avenue, is you're going
• 22:52
  Speaker 3: to find that general personality type running these orders. I
• 22:56
  Speaker 3: can tell you from one of my friends experience, and
• 23:00
  Speaker 3: so he actually wrote this massive book about one of these,
• 23:04
  Speaker 3: uh you know, Canaanite sort of deities. I believe it
• 23:08
  Speaker 3: was the one that you showed originally, I don't want
• 23:10
  Speaker 3: to exactly say her name, but he wrote a whole
• 23:13
  Speaker 3: book about it, and this other guy who who took
• 23:16
  Speaker 3: a look at that book copied everything from it and
• 23:18
  Speaker 3: started his own magical cult based off of this book
• 23:21
  Speaker 3: that he read from somebody else. And this guy's like,
• 23:24
  Speaker 3: what the fuck what are you doing with this? It's
• 23:26
  Speaker 3: like you just created a cult about the thing that
• 23:28
  Speaker 3: I just showed you. And he's like, yeah, you want
• 23:30
  Speaker 3: to join it. It's like, are you kidding me? Like
• 23:33
  Speaker 3: this is what we're doing. You're just gonna steal everything
• 23:35
  Speaker 3: from me and then say, hey, you want to join
• 23:37
  Speaker 3: my cult that I started with all the stuff that
• 23:39
  Speaker 3: you showed me.
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: That's another thing.
• 23:42
  Speaker 4: I'll leave it. That's one thing else say, Yo, if
• 23:45
  Speaker 4: you're in the magic of the Witchcraft community and I'm
• 23:47
  Speaker 4: not sticking up for like organized like fraternities, but if
• 23:51
  Speaker 4: somebody is just like popping up with.
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: Their own thing, fucking run run, that.
• 23:55
  Speaker 4: Is probably an ego beast looking to control people and
• 23:58
  Speaker 4: to stick there, dick in anything that will look.
• 24:00
  Speaker 3: Them very true.
• 24:03
  Speaker 4: I mean, there's there's even there's a ship blew my mind.
• 24:06
  Speaker 4: It was somebody that I'm going straight straight up somebody
• 24:08
  Speaker 4: that was on the show. I'm not gonna say their
• 24:09
  Speaker 4: fucking name was involved in some witches coven. That's gonna
• 24:12
  Speaker 4: knock it down pretty pretty, uh, pretty whatever. It won't
• 24:16
  Speaker 4: be too hard to figure out who this is.
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: Now.
• 24:18
  Speaker 4: YO, A couple of weeks after that, there's a fucking
• 24:20
  Speaker 4: video about this psychotic motherfucker and what they were doing
• 24:23
  Speaker 4: inside of this coven. I was like, I cannot believe
• 24:26
  Speaker 4: this person was on my show. This person is sick.
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: Of the fucking head.
• 24:31
  Speaker 4: Disgusting the fucking things that you're hearing people on this
• 24:34
  Speaker 4: YouTube video talk about what they experienced. This ship is
• 24:37
  Speaker 4: all about fucking control for some people, man, and to
• 24:40
  Speaker 4: get their fucking sexual rocks off.
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: So be leery be.
• 24:44
  Speaker 3: Leery, right, and uh, you know, it's one of those
• 24:49
  Speaker 3: things you gotta think about where you're at and who
• 24:51
  Speaker 3: else is doing it. You think everything is for the
• 24:54
  Speaker 3: good of humanity, but this is one of those things
• 24:56
  Speaker 3: that you find with the left wing again, what they've
• 24:59
  Speaker 3: done is they've unify personalized everything to such an extent
• 25:02
  Speaker 3: that now they don't really have any personality of their
• 25:05
  Speaker 3: own other than this. You know, sort of vague avenger
• 25:08
  Speaker 3: of anyone who has bad feelings or any anybody who's
• 25:11
  Speaker 3: been screwed over in their lives, and they feel like
• 25:13
  Speaker 3: they know who that is, even though they're only given
• 25:15
  Speaker 3: certain inputs into how to feel about certain groups. You know,
• 25:20
  Speaker 3: you're only given a narrow sort of perception window, and
• 25:24
  Speaker 3: everything has to stay within that narrow perception window so
• 25:27
  Speaker 3: that you can have your universalist mentality that ends up
• 25:32
  Speaker 3: leading to stuff like left wing insanity, you know. But
• 25:36
  Speaker 3: I think it's it's far more important to go into
• 25:38
  Speaker 3: these situations clear headed and know that a lot of
• 25:41
  Speaker 3: the people there are control freaks and they're doing that
• 25:44
  Speaker 3: for this purpose. But the one thing you can be
• 25:47
  Speaker 3: sure of is the kookiar sounding the cult the kookier
• 25:51
  Speaker 3: it actually is never anything.
• 25:53
  Speaker 5: I hate to say it, right, So the way I
• 25:58
  Speaker 5: put it is like this, So if there is something
• 26:01
  Speaker 5: that amazing and fantastic and that you could actually see
• 26:04
  Speaker 5: the aliens or the UFOs or whatever is coming back
• 26:07
  Speaker 5: to save you, it just means that they're much better
• 26:11
  Speaker 5: at creating illusions than other people.
• 26:13
  Speaker 3: I would never buy into it, just because of the
• 26:15
  Speaker 3: fact that this other world is going to destroy your
• 26:19
  Speaker 3: own life in reality here because it has no choice.
• 26:23
  Speaker 3: These are two different worlds coming into conflict, and whoever
• 26:26
  Speaker 3: stuck in between that stuff is generally going to get smashed.
• 26:30
  Speaker 3: So if you're doing this for self development, you gotta
• 26:32
  Speaker 3: stay away from the weird stuff pretty much.
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'll put it that way.
• 26:36
  Speaker 4: If you look at for self development, you know, yeah,
• 26:38
  Speaker 4: be very leary. You're looking to have a good time
• 26:40
  Speaker 4: at freak off and meet.
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: Some weirdos, go for it, you know, right right?
• 26:50
  Speaker 4: Some biblical scripture about measuring the layout of the temple.
• 26:53
  Speaker 4: Oh that is interesting.
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: The right and the ring.
• 26:55
  Speaker 4: This is from William Burkin. He's been on here before.
• 26:57
  Speaker 4: The branch reminds me of some of the biblical script
• 27:00
  Speaker 4: sure about measuring the layout of the temple, having also
• 27:02
  Speaker 4: something to do with the ruler establishing weights and measure.
• 27:05
  Speaker 4: I like that weights and measure, I would even say,
• 27:08
  Speaker 4: especially with this one, this this depiction, I mean, the
• 27:10
  Speaker 4: guy looks like he's got ropes and shit going on
• 27:12
  Speaker 4: in the background.
• 27:12
  Speaker 3: Too, right, well, he looks like one of these kings,
• 27:16
  Speaker 3: because again he's way bigger than all of these small
• 27:19
  Speaker 3: people sort of worshiping at this ishtar star right in
• 27:22
  Speaker 3: front of him. This looks like one of those boundary
• 27:24
  Speaker 3: stones that we did the episode on, because a lot
• 27:27
  Speaker 3: of that stuff has to do with this is the
• 27:29
  Speaker 3: king's domain, and we're supposed to know what this means
• 27:32
  Speaker 3: already that he's holding up in front of him, which
• 27:34
  Speaker 3: I have still no idea. Like this one looks kind
• 27:37
  Speaker 3: of like a flute. There's a little notch there for
• 27:39
  Speaker 3: the wind to come out of, but who knows if
• 27:42
  Speaker 3: that's original or if that was chipped into it or
• 27:44
  Speaker 3: something over the years, But it's kind of interesting. I
• 27:48
  Speaker 3: think there is something to the idea of using this
• 27:52
  Speaker 3: this circle as sort of like a measure of all circles,
• 27:55
  Speaker 3: like the three point one four idea, using mathematics as well.
• 28:00
  Speaker 3: But you know what they would also do is they
• 28:02
  Speaker 3: would use sticks in the ground to sort of measure
• 28:04
  Speaker 3: the stars and their their motion across the sky. So
• 28:09
  Speaker 3: it could be used for that, I'm sure, But it's
• 28:12
  Speaker 3: strange that they wouldn't know exactly what it was used
• 28:14
  Speaker 3: for if it was such a prominent symbol, you know.
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: Because it's occultism, you know what I like?
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, right, exactly exactly, That's what I'm saying.
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: I don't know, I don't.
• 28:28
  Speaker 4: I don't buy you know, I don't buy most of
• 28:31
  Speaker 4: what when it comes to actual symbolism sometimes unless they're
• 28:34
  Speaker 4: into the occult, I really don't buy a lot of
• 28:37
  Speaker 4: you know, what's the academics say they think it is?
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: This is always the same ship.
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: It's like, oh, it was just deeds and rolls and okay.
• 28:44
  Speaker 3: A ritual object ritual object? What does that even mean?
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: Every morning with I mean, there could be so many things.
• 28:53
  Speaker 3: A toothbrush, if you do it regularly, a toothbrush is
• 28:56
  Speaker 3: a ritual object as well.
• 28:58
  Speaker 4: Yeah, my coffee cup every morning when I have coffee,
• 29:00
  Speaker 4: that's fucking ritualistic, right.
• 29:03
  Speaker 3: It's just so lazy to just label something ritual object.
• 29:06
  Speaker 2: I mean, that's basically we're not sure.
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: We're not sure, so you know, we'll leave it off
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: for you to figure out.
• 29:13
  Speaker 3: I do like if you go out and you've got
• 29:16
  Speaker 3: a good theory and they don't like that theory, good
• 29:19
  Speaker 3: luck getting that theory. Oh yeah right, I'll stay a
• 29:21
  Speaker 3: ritual object exactly.
• 29:24
  Speaker 4: Sir Eddie Rose or Rose or Sir Eddie Ross. I
• 29:27
  Speaker 4: do appreciate you saying that, because he did himself. Crowley
• 29:30
  Speaker 4: did despise giving a will to another person. That That
• 29:33
  Speaker 4: is one thing I don't understand with the OTO. They
• 29:37
  Speaker 4: uh sorry, I'm laughing at the comments. For one, he
• 29:44
  Speaker 4: has set himself And I used to even know, like
• 29:46
  Speaker 4: it was almost like, you know, people quoting Bible quotes.
• 29:49
  Speaker 4: I almost used to know, like even like the book
• 29:50
  Speaker 4: and where it was from. He tells you twice in
• 29:53
  Speaker 4: his own ship, don't put me on a fucking pedestal.
• 29:55
  Speaker 4: I ain't the one he tells people to do that.
• 29:58
  Speaker 4: He tells people that about about stop being sleeves to
• 30:00
  Speaker 4: the fucking gods.
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: Man.
• 30:02
  Speaker 4: Even him, yo, straight up, if he as fruity as
• 30:05
  Speaker 4: he was, if he came back right now and walked
• 30:08
  Speaker 4: into the OTO, he said, all your motherfuck is.
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: A faggot's get the fuck out of here, right.
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: He didn't even.
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: Say what the fuck happened to this shit? Who the
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: fuck are you people?
• 30:18
  Speaker 3: Right?
• 30:18
  Speaker 4: You're a a bunch of fucking pussies? And he was
• 30:22
  Speaker 4: half a homo right Well, not knocking him, okay, but
• 30:27
  Speaker 4: I'm just saying, you know, even he'd be like, yo, man,
• 30:29
  Speaker 4: the fuck up.
• 30:29
  Speaker 3: Already, right, he would be able to tell the difference
• 30:34
  Speaker 3: between social engineering and you know, a valid social whatever.
• 30:38
  Speaker 3: But like now people can't even tell the difference between
• 30:41
  Speaker 3: social engineering and a social cause anymore. It's it's completely lost,
• 30:45
  Speaker 3: you know. But that's sort of how it goes. I mean,
• 30:49
  Speaker 3: we go through cycles with society where you know, at
• 30:53
  Speaker 3: some point people feel like they have to make everybody
• 30:56
  Speaker 3: else sort of ascribe to their belief system or else
• 31:00
  Speaker 3: the whole thing is going to crumble. And we're kind
• 31:02
  Speaker 3: of in that perpetual phase in our society where everybody
• 31:05
  Speaker 3: has to believe what whatever there ruling majority or whatever
• 31:08
  Speaker 3: wants us to believe, or else, you know, we're out.
• 31:11
  Speaker 3: So it hasn't been that bad for a while, but
• 31:14
  Speaker 3: now that we're going kind of bankrupt, and we kind
• 31:17
  Speaker 3: of keep finding over and over again that there's somebody
• 31:19
  Speaker 3: there with this sort of unity answer. Donald Trump's just
• 31:23
  Speaker 3: the latest iteration of that. But you know, we'll see.
• 31:27
  Speaker 3: I think a lot of people have just turned off,
• 31:29
  Speaker 3: you know, they don't expect anything from society anymore, which
• 31:32
  Speaker 3: I think is probably a healthier notion than thinking that
• 31:36
  Speaker 3: society is supposed to work for you.
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: No.
• 31:38
  Speaker 4: I mean, I honestly think even when it comes to
• 31:40
  Speaker 4: the occult, like Ike was even saying he says, even
• 31:42
  Speaker 4: for freemasonry. He says, those people aren't getting anything out
• 31:45
  Speaker 4: of that order, and they're starting to look into their
• 31:46
  Speaker 4: own shit and it's not on their own things, and
• 31:48
  Speaker 4: starting to investigate because they ain't learned anymore. I mean, unfortunately,
• 31:52
  Speaker 4: well not fortunately, hopefully. I hope that in the next
• 31:54
  Speaker 4: twenty or thirty is the OTO goes fucking down. There's
• 31:58
  Speaker 4: no fucking point of it being here anymore.
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: Nothing.
• 32:01
  Speaker 4: You're not gonna fucking learn anything in that place with
• 32:03
  Speaker 4: the way they're deciding to run it. People I don't
• 32:05
  Speaker 4: even think of going to those places as much anymore.
• 32:07
  Speaker 4: They're listening to shows like this instead, and they're studying
• 32:11
  Speaker 4: and reading because one, you don't have to get fucking charge,
• 32:14
  Speaker 4: and we're not a icking making you do any creepy shit,
• 32:18
  Speaker 4: you know.
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: What I'm saying.
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: It's just.
• 32:22
  Speaker 3: I don't know exactly.
• 32:22
  Speaker 4: I don't think these places are gonna do well if
• 32:24
  Speaker 4: they keep going the way that they're going.
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: I think they're gonna be their own demise.
• 32:29
  Speaker 3: We're not even charging a clubhouse membership, so.
• 32:32
  Speaker 4: Yeah, we're not even making it get daked for an initiation, right, fuck.
• 32:38
  Speaker 2: I mean, listen, we know we work something out, but no,
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: we'll see, we'll see.
• 32:46
  Speaker 3: How it works. I mean, uh, maybe passing the joint
• 32:48
  Speaker 3: that's the initiative.
• 32:49
  Speaker 4: Yeah, that's really right in the vaipe with me in
• 32:52
  Speaker 4: an event with buds now, yeah, I guess in that sense,
• 32:56
  Speaker 4: Edkinsass is already in.
• 33:02
  Speaker 3: He's officially I uh, you know. Well, it's been a
• 33:11
  Speaker 3: great episode. We'll come back again next time. Definitely send
• 33:15
  Speaker 3: us those emails. I love hearing about your stories.
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: Uh.
• 33:18
  Speaker 3: If if you have any kind of means of keeping
• 33:21
  Speaker 3: shadow people away, I'd love to hear about it. I
• 33:24
  Speaker 3: saw in the comments people were having experiences and they
• 33:26
  Speaker 3: haven't emailed me, so emailed me at Headless Giant Podcast
• 33:29
  Speaker 3: at gmail dot com. Don't just put it in the comments.
• 33:34
  Speaker 3: But thank you guys for watching, and we'll see you
• 33:37
  Speaker 3: again next time.
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: Lida