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Transcript

Cancelled · System Speak: Complex Trauma and Dissociation

• 0:08
  Speaker 1: Over: Welcome to the System Speak Podcast, a podcast about Dissociative Identity Disorder. If you are new to the podcast, we recommend starting at the beginning episodes and listen in order to hear our story and what we have learned through this endeavor. Current episodes may be more applicable to longtime listeners and are likely to contain more advanced topics, emotional or other triggering content, and or reference earlier episodes that provide more context to what we are currently learning and experiencing. As always, please care for yourself during and after listening to the podcast. Thank you.
• 1:01
  Okay. So by now everyone knows what happened, but let me back up and tell our version of the story. So the last podcast you listened to, we recorded right before going to the ISSDD conference that first morning. We did that early after finishing our work and got ready for the conference and did that almost as a pep talk to ourselves that we can really go and show up and not be scared. And we were super excited.
• 1:31
  We had our poster ready, and we were going to go be brave and ding people into the conference with the scanner and have an easy day sort of to feel things out because Christine Forner was doing a preconference workshop for new attendees about just dissociation one zero one. And so that seemed like an easy, safe place to start to see how we could manage the content of sessions and triggers and make sure we're doing okay. And I thought we were ready. We've made so much progress. And so we kind of had that plan, and we were all ready to go.
• 2:14
  We have to walk about a mile and a half to get to the hotel where the conference is. And when we left our hotel in the lobby, people were kind of crowded around the TV and then backed off a little bit. So we could tell something was going on, but we had to be there on time because we were supposed to do the scanner. So we so we didn't worry about it really, and we're just very focused on getting ourselves to the conference. When we got there to the lobby, the same thing was sort of happening in that there were people watching what was happening on television and everyone kind of backing up from each other.
• 2:56
  And so there was this strange dynamic of, okay. There's more drama with the coronavirus, and, obviously, everyone's upset about it and anxious, and no one's fully understanding what's going on. And the people who aren't are irritated. The other people are. And so it's just this feeling that is very triggering of of people not being at peace inside themselves or with other people.
• 3:23
  So it was kind of unsettling, but, again, we just focused on getting to the conference. And so we went over and used our elbow to push the elevator button and go up to the Third Floor. And we came out of the elevators and turned the corner to go to the conference, and the table where we were supposed to register was all set up and ready except nothing that you sign in with to register for the conference was there. So that was the first thing of, okay. Something is really strange and something's going on.
• 4:00
  And past the table was like an open area where all the conference rooms were branching off of that. And there, people were listening to Christine Forner talk, but they were also all spread out. And there was another man there that was at the dinner, but I don't know his name because I couldn't hear it at the dinner the night before. So I'm sorry. But he's really nice, and he and Christine were talking to the crowd of people who were all spread out, but I could not understand what they were saying.
• 4:31
  And everyone was either frustrated or disappointed. Like, you could tell people were upset, but I couldn't figure out what was going on. And every time I went up to someone to try to ask them, like, they backed away from me. It was really a bizarre experience. And looking back on it now, the same thing happens when there's weather alerts.
• 4:54
  Like, we live in Oklahoma and Kansas. And I mean, now we live in Kansas. But in Oklahoma and Kansas, we have a lot of tornadoes. And so when there are live weather updates, there are no captions because it's happening right then. So it hasn't been captioned yet, and they don't have interpreters on live weather things the way they should and is required to either have captioning or interpreters, but they don't do that on the news.
• 5:25
  So what happens is we can see there is a storm and we know something is wrong, but we don't know what is wrong or where it is wrong other than the maps that they show. And they do show big maps, but they do a lot of talking and explaining that you don't actually know if you can't hear. And so I can see the map and I can see where I live on the map, but I don't know where the storm is or what the weather guy is worked up about or what's wrong. And that's what this felt like. This felt like that because I could tell something was wrong, but I didn't know what was wrong.
• 6:07
  The other thing that I noticed, but I was this time aware of, and so I was trying to focus and I did some breathing and I tried to stay grounded, but I was very intensely and acutely aware of, is that everyone's faces, because they were so concerned or upset or scared or confused or all these different feelings these people were all obviously and legitimately having, their faces with all of those expressions and their flat faces or their upset faces, all of that was really triggering. Like, there was a whole room full of people that were upset. But I know that they were upset because of what the governor said and the conference being canceled and they're concerned for themselves and their families and trying to get home. All of those complications, of course, are the kinds of things they were experiencing. But I remembered what I've learned from the podcast interviews about how those of us who are survivors read people's faces as danger when they are flat or some of those expressions.
• 7:23
  And so I was trying to notice and be aware that I could physically feel my internal response as if we were in danger, even though these are good, safe people that I know, because I've interviewed them on the podcast and have met them and had dinner with them the night before and things like that. So it was fascinating to feel that and to be aware of it in a safe context where I wasn't really in danger and could tell myself I wasn't really in danger, but also because of circumstances, my body was picking up on those signals. So that's just an aside of something that I noticed and experienced while I was there in that moment when you're sort of stepping back and watching it all play out. And so I tried to be really conscious of that and even smile and talk with people before I left. So it was again this deaf piece of being like a whole minute behind everybody or a whole half hour behind everybody.
• 8:28
  I didn't understand what was going on. But I could tell something was clearly going on, and I couldn't figure out what was going on. So finally, just sat down in a chair, and I thought, will wait until they are finished. I was not brave enough to interrupt or ask, but I thought I'll wait until they're finished, and then I will ask someone. And so I just found a chair in the corner, and I just sat down to wait to see what was going on.
• 8:52
  Because I thought they've obviously not started yet, but also the registration table is not set up. So, like, there were clues, but I couldn't figure out what was going on. And the only people that I knew were the people that were talking, so I had to wait until they finished. So I sat in the corner away from everybody just waiting for them to finish. And as more people came in after me, they, like, came in in groups.
• 9:18
  And then I watched that, like, as they listened to Christine talk, which I couldn't understand what she was saying. But as as they came into, like, the waiting area, they came in in groups, and then they also spread out. It was bizarre. So I could tell she was telling them to spread out or somehow they knew to spread out because everyone was doing the same thing. And so it was just fascinating.
• 9:45
  So I just stayed put in the corner out of everyone's way and waited. So after a while, everyone sort of dispersed. And then I saw Warwick Middleton, and I saw Christine, and I took my pictures with them. And then finally, I saw my friend Bethany that I work with at ISSTD, and she passed out papers. And the papers, I guess, were letters for us to give to the airport.
• 10:12
  But finally, from the paper, I understood what happened and that the conference had been canceled. So, basically, what happened was the ISSTD worked really hard to make sure that safety precautions were in place for the conference to continue. So many of us who were in safe places and able to get there traveled out to the conference because it was still happening. But the morning the conference well, really the pre workshops. But the morning it was supposed to start, at the same time as registration was opening, like, right at 08:00, I guess, California time, the governor said that crowds could not assemble, and I don't wanna say the exact words or quote something because I don't wanna say it wrong.
• 10:59
  You can look it up online. But the governor said that you can't assemble, like, within so many people. And he said that everyone had to stay six feet apart. So not assembling or gathering and having to be able to stay six feet apart obviously makes it difficult for a conference to happen. And not only that, but he also said there would be fines and legal action if you tried anyway.
• 11:30
  And so, obviously, the ISSTD has to follow the law, and so the conference was canceled immediately. People were obviously upset and frustrated because they had traveled all of this way to the conference, and now it wasn't happening. But, also, at the same time, I understand it was not the ISSTD fault that the governor made that call that morning, and there was nothing we could do about it. There's nothing anyone could do about it. And regardless of your politics, it's also just hard to know what to do and when and whether it's safe or not.
• 12:05
  Like, there's so many different extremes of information and so much other information happening and who is telling the truth and what's going on. And I think, like, the last podcast, we talked about this whole virus thing being a trigger for survivors. I think this is another way that it's a trigger for survivors because not only are you not only is it a big thing that you can't necessarily do anything about, but the people who are in charge of helping you, like presidents or health care organizations or doctors or different thing, are giving you different information. And some of that may be maliciously, like the politics are out of control, and that's a problem, but that's a whole different podcast. But even for health care providers and the World Health Organization, which I actually work with a lot, so I know people there and different groups like that.
• 13:05
  The information is still unfolding. So it's hard for them, like any emergency or any crisis response, it's hard for them to give accurate information when the information is still unfolding. And so as we see what's happening and as we see what it means and we're learning more about it, then we get more accurate information. But, also, this is how fast it's changing. Because if I knew what I know today a week ago there's no way I would have gone to San Francisco.
• 13:39
  There's no way I would have gone. But we didn't know a week ago what we know today like that's how fast things are changing and so once we realized that it was really a serious thing and that the conference was canceled, there was no reason for us to stay in California another week and continue to expose ourselves. Plus there's that pull to go home when things feel scary right? Which now I know is my mammal brain. Yeah, yeah I'm learning.
• 14:10
  I feel in danger and so I want to turn towards my caregivers. Mammal brain I get a point. That was good. That's good. I'm proud of me for remembering that.
• 14:21
  So we scrambled to get a flight home. We could not just get a flight home. It was insane in California. Trying to get out of California that morning was crazy and so it was just pure chaos at the airport. But even that was crazy because once we got to our next airport, it was like ghost town.
• 14:48
  To be able to get our tickets transferred and to fly home, we ended up having to go through three or four airports. And California Airport was chaos of all the people trying to get out, which really, if you think about it, all of those people leaving California and now just landing all over the country, that seems kind of scary actually. But all of the other airports were just empty, and it was bizarre. I've never seen anything like it. Like, the flight into Kansas City, they're always packed.
• 15:23
  It's always a nightmare and crowded and cranky, and people, like, you know what it's like. Right? There were three people on our flight. And so they just kept bringing us snacks, and we just kept putting them in the backpack for the kids, like, the outside kids. Except, of course, I can't give my children contaminated snacks from the airplane.
• 15:50
  Like, I it's not funny. It's not funny. But what do you do? What do you do? And yes, we did everything that we could do.
• 16:05
  Like, we wiped down the seats with Clorox. We wore gloves. We wore a mask. You guys, there were people in the airports in hazmat suits. So, when it felt funny to be overly protected going out to California, that's how much things changed.
• 16:20
  That's how fast things changed. When we flew out to California the day before, we were like the weirdos in a mask and gloves because of our daughter, but flying home, it was like a mask and gloves were not enough. People were in actual hazmat suits, like the full body trash bag outfit. That's what they looked like. It was, I can't even tell you.
• 16:47
  I can't even tell you. So they were super safe, except for the lady that I saw pull her hazmat suit that had already been used out of her duffel bag after eating her food from the airport and sitting in the regular chair and then putting the suit on after like, that's not how it works, you guys. We've lived and worked in hospitals for so long, and, like, her entire hazmat suit was just contaminated. She was just wrapping herself up and all of the germs she thought she was keeping herself away from. Anyway, anyway, it was just quite the trip home with almost no one on the plane.
• 17:28
  There was just I don't even know. I don't even know. There was just no one else there and they didn't know what to do with us so they just kept bringing us more snacks. We did make it home about midnight that night and did not go to our house because once we understood more accurately how serious things were there's no way we want to expose our children to that and so rather than going back to the house we came to the hotel and then we will go to the cabin for another week and so that we will have two weeks of quarantine by ourselves before we go back with our family. That said we have no illness.
• 18:17
  We have not been exposed that we know of. We were really careful while we were there and have no symptoms. We disinfected everything. We're staying put mostly in our room but we're watching a lot online. And as part of our work with disaster response and especially now that in The United States, it's been declared a national emergency, which puts it back under FEMA, which sucks me back into the mess of things.
• 18:45
  So we're learning a lot more information and getting it, and now we understand things like we're about a month behind what's happening in Italy. And because of Italy, we are getting more information than what we had two months ago from other countries before that that didn't necessarily share their information as much. And all of these things you guys know. Like, I don't wanna talk just about the coronavirus because all of you are hearing it all over the media. You're all reading everything, seeing everything, social media.
• 19:21
  People have different political opinions. But the point is that we made it home. We're doing a self quarantine just to be sure because our daughter is about to have surgery and that it was an intense trip home. It was a bizarre experience and I'm really glad that we made it home safely. We've already talked some about what is triggering for people but I think several things have come up that we want to make a point about.
• 19:49
  Number one is that just fear being afraid not knowing what's gonna happen being unsettled not understanding how to help for sure not knowing who's telling the truth about it for sure, the divisiveness of politics, all of these things the process of exposure to those things is very triggering for survivors. All of those things make your general feelings of safety go down which is going to make your anxiety go up or other symptoms however they're normally expressed go up. And so if you can focus with your therapist even if you're having to meet your therapist online or on the phone or through messaging or if you have support people or if you're in the groups online focus on safety, focus on grounding. There's a lot of things out there going on that we have zero control over. Like, can wash your hands.
• 20:59
  You can use disinfectant and sanitizer, and you can do the things that we're supposed to do, social distancing, like the six feet apart. Right? Now I know the word for it in English. You can do all of those things, but you can't change what's happening out there. And if you only focus on what's happening out there and the drama of it on television or on social media, it's going to be too much because going back to disaster response and the trauma and resiliency trainings that we do all over the world all the time, the definition of stress is when more is asked of you than what you have the resources or capacity to meet.
• 21:46
  And so the resources that you need to handle the stress of this can be internal or external. So you may need to know what's going on in your area for the coronavirus but you don't need to look at social media all day long. You may need to make sure that you're washing your hands But if you're safe and staying put and social isolating, then for now that's all we can do. And it's okay to focus on other things like do some journaling, do some artwork, do some cooking, or what things would you usually do to distract yourself and for grounding to help you feel safer? That's not a magic thing.
• 22:31
  It's not it doesn't make all the stuff go away that's going on in the world, but the level of chaos and the level of triggers are off the charts right now. And you as a system have the power to intervene in your own behalf even when hard things happen. So for example, even if we got really, really sick, which we don't expect to be and we're not showing any symptoms, let me be very clear. But just in that example, like, if I can't I can't stop the germs. Right?
• 23:05
  Like, I can do all these precautions, and I can try my best, and I can avoid others because we're really good at avoiding. And I can do all these things to be wise and to be cautious, like not fly to California. So my mistake. But but only staying focused on the panic part and only staying focused on how scary it is is like the opposite of what we need to be healthy and well. We can be wise and cautious but also calm and grounded and just deal with one piece at a time.
• 23:42
  So again, like I said earlier in the week, I don't at all mean to minimize the severity of what's happening or the vast impact on how many people are affected by it. I'm just saying it is okay to turn off your phone and it is okay to use the CallMap or one of the EMDR apps or the coping skills that you usually use to help restore feelings of safety, it is okay to use those as you help cope with not only just the virus itself, but also the stress that's being caused by feeling like it's more than what you know how to respond to. Does that make sense? Because what the definition of resiliency is, is that restoration of internal and external resources to cope with stressors and to cope with hard things and to cope with life which continues on whether you get sick or not until it doesn't. And everybody's gonna die at some point because we're mortal.
• 25:03
  And I don't mean at all to downplay anything or minimize it. I'm not. But I'm saying, for right now, whether you're not sick or whether you're just a little bit sick, there's nothing you can do except live well today. And live well by being a responsible steward of the life that you have, the system that you are, and the loved ones that you've worked hard to connect with around you. So as we mentioned earlier in the week, one of the biggest shifts that's happening that's going to be around for a while whether you get sick or not is the impact of social distancing which is very important and necessary for helping hospitals maintain capacity to actually help people and protecting the community as a whole.
• 25:58
  But individually as people, it's a very, very difficult thing. And for survivors, it can be really triggering. And the impact of those triggers can be internal or external, meaning it can be a triggering thing that other people don't wanna be around you or are not able to be around you or that you're not able to connect with others in that physical way, but it can also be an internal trigger for some regression in going backwards because it's easier to disconnect than to stay connected and now when connection is not as possible or as available it's difficult to continue working on those muscles you were building to learn how to connect, which means not that it's impossible, but that you have to be more intentional about it. You also need to be really careful and aware of unhealthy coping skills that may be easy to go backwards or return to that will not actually be helpful, like increasing in your drinking or any substance abuse, irritability with others just because you're feeling unsettled or dysregulated yourself, or falling into patterns of just binge watching on Netflix or TV or movies or something. You need to be getting up and getting moving.
• 27:29
  You can do stretches or workout videos online, or you can go for walks if you're not around other people outside. You still need to connect with others like we talked about, and you still need to focus on things that are important to you, whether that is getting littles to have time out to play or to be creative or working through your workbooks if you have therapy workbooks. Like, continue doing the things that have kept you healthy and that you're progressing through or progressing on so that you have not just that comfort or that safety feeling, but also some structure to your day and some kind of routine still going that in itself will be grounding as well. Also, try to even if your choices have changed because of people hoarding food, which can also be a trigger when it feels like you can't get the food that you need, we've experienced that in two ways. We usually eat rice and applesauce and soup.
• 28:37
  We're pretty simple in what we eat, but everyone has taken all of the soup because they think they're gonna be sick and need soup. And so we have broth and know how to make bone broth and things like that. But but being resourceful and even if you don't have the same choices that you usually have, using your resources to still try to eat healthy as opposed to eating junk food that's available because it won't feel as good as your body. And the more that you stir things up as feeling unsafe in your body, the more jittery and the more anxious you're going to become. This is also true for therapists and caregivers who, whether they are working in hospitals or whether they are therapists themselves or other clinicians feeling the impact of other people's trauma.
• 29:30
  Vicarious trauma is always a thing. If you're checking on people who are themselves sick, make sure that you have a good support system that you're talking to and utilizing. All of these things, this is why you've done that work. This is why you have done everything you have to get better and to get healthy and to get strong mentally. Because now time is still safe even when hard things happen.
• 30:00
  Something like the coronavirus being out there in the world and so many people getting sick and it feeling so big and scary, All of that's true, but that's not the same as someone who is trying to hurt you. But the parallels are there. It feels like there's a virus out there trying to get you. But being aware that that's a trigger and that even if we don't necessarily have lots of choices about what to do with it physically or medically, we mentally and emotionally and spiritually still have a choice in how we respond to the situation. We still have a choice in how we respond to others who need help.
• 30:45
  We still have a choice in how to respond in caring for ourselves as we get through this hard thing. Hard things still happen in life and new traumas still happen like we talked about in the other episode. But that doesn't have the power to take away now time is safe because now time is still safe because you are your best resource. And before, in the past, or when you were little, you didn't have what you have now. And you are grown now, and you are safe, and you are strong, and there is so much that you can do to take care of yourself in so many ways, whether you get sick or not.
• 31:38
  And being aware of that and taking care of yourself in those ways and making sure that you're connected in ways that you can be, even if that changes what it looks like. But you can be creative and connect with others, whether internally or with other people, so that you are not entirely alone because no one is alone. And, yes, it's a bad thing that there's a pandemic, they say now, where it is spreading across the world. But do you know what the good thing about that is? It means everybody gets it.
• 32:17
  And I don't mean the virus. I mean everybody understands, and everyone is feeling the same thing. And we are in this together, experiencing it together, which is different than the past when you were little and alone. So even if we all get sick, we're not in it alone. We have each other even now.
• 32:44
  So there are things to do that are preventative medically. There are things to do for self care physically. But there are also things to do for self care emotionally and mentally to care well for ourselves as we both prepare for this experience and endure it together. But we are not alone, and it doesn't change now time being safe, because we are not helpless and we are not hopeless. The CDC has some amazing articles about the mental health impact of COVID-nineteen, if you want to look that up or if you wanna read more information.
• 33:31
  So I will get off of that soapbox, but what I wanna tell you for our own experience as of when we're recording this, we are on day four of our self quarantine that is only preventative for our children. We have no symptoms of being sick and no concerns about being sick. That said, we are being super careful. We do have everything with us that we had from our trip, so we have enough clothes and things like that. We also have our scriptures and our laptop and our journaling and some art supplies, So we're pretty well set in that way.
• 34:11
  And then the husband came by with a suitcase full of food for us because remember, we couldn't have the micro there was no microwave. So we were having cold soup. Now we have a microwave. So we're having warm soup, and he brought a few other things by, some applesauce and things, and water bottles and Gatorade. So we're staying hydrated.
• 34:34
  We have what we need. He brought Lysol. He did not give it to us. We did not touch him or the children. He put it in a suitcase and literally rolled it down the hallway at us.
• 34:44
  And we grabbed it and caught it and waved goodbye. And it was a hard thing. We were able to invite the children to swim, and they got to have fun playing and enjoyed that, but we did not see them. We only saw them through the window. It's a good thing.
• 35:02
  We're all fluent in sign language, so we are able to have some good talks through the window and a good visit that way. But we we were not we have not been in contact with them at all. By the time you're listening to this, we will be at our cabin, and we'll stay there until our quarantine is finished. And then we go home to our family where they are also in quarantine, but that's because our daughter's about to have surgery, not because anyone there has been exposed. However, the schools here have closed because the virus is here and people have already died.
• 35:42
  And so everyone is taking it seriously. Everything is shut down. Every just like what's happening everywhere else. The schools are shut down. Events are closed.
• 35:52
  Stores are closed, restaurants are closed, all of it is just shut down. So we are in a good place as far as doing what we know to do so far, what we've been instructed to do. We have no fever, we have no symptoms, but we're just hanging out and resting and spending a lot of time on the video phone with the children doing different activities and some schoolwork. And when we're cleared to, we walk around outside away from other people, but where we can get some fresh air ourselves. We did very carefully and thoroughly disinfect our luggage and everything we brought with us to California.
• 36:37
  And so we have done all there is to do to be safe and to be well and to keep others from being sick. And so there's nothing else to do about that. We will just use the time for some writing and some art projects and do the things that we know that takes care of us. I think that the ISSTD handled things well as they could with the information they had, the same as we handled things and made the choices the best that we could based on the information we had at the time. And those who are members of ISSTD will get information from them about how we're going to shift and adapt the trainings.
• 37:20
  And I will take your attendance because that's my job. I don't usually talk about the ISSTD on the podcast because I wanna keep that separate because that is our work except for because of the podcast award. I had brought it up. So that's all I had to share about that. I will share pictures of our poster online when I'm able to.
• 37:40
  I know that the blog for the poster session is still going to go up. So you can check the blog at SystemSpeak.org and see the survey results and listen to that podcast if you want or read it online either way. But that was our grand adventure, and all seems to be well, although we're following the rules of quarantine just in case. But we're feeling fine so far, and everything's okay thus far. So I hope that you're staying well.
• 38:09
  And I don't just mean physically from the virus. I mean that despite what's going on around you or whether you get sick or not, that you continue to do the things that you know are good for you mentally, that continue to help support your healing in a variety of ways through good self care and coping skills, breathing techniques, relaxation, all the strategies that you always use, art, get some therapy online. There are so many choices of what you can do for yourself even in the middle of all of this chaos to keep yourself centered and well and kind both to yourself and to other people around you. So take care and be well in that way. Yeah?
• 39:13
  Thank you for listening. Your support of the podcast, the workbooks, and the community means so much to us as we try to create something together that's never been done before, not like this. Connection brings healing, and you can join us on the community at www.systemsspeak.com. We'll see you there.