Latest / The Photography & Video Show Podcast / 30: Nicky Hamilton crafts cinematic fine-art photography from personal stories; Kim Bunermann on the Kodak Charmera and the compact camera comeback

Transcript

30: Nicky Hamilton crafts cinematic fine-art photography from personal stories; Kim Bunermann on the Kodak Charmera and the compact camera comeback · The Photography & Video Show Podcast

• 0:09
  David McClelland: Hello and welcome to the Photography and Video Show Podcast, your monthly fix of developing camera news and insights from world-leading photographers and filmmakers.
• 0:19
  David McClelland: It's me, David McClelland.
• 0:21
  David McClelland: It's February 2026 and coming up this month.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_01: It took me three and a half years to make, and that was back to back three and a half years.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_01: It was roughly, I think, about three months per image averaged out.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_01: The work you create personally definitely is the work that you attract.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_01: I think where my work is very cinematic, it's so emotionally packed, a lot of these big key art campaigns need to reflect what goes on in that show or that film in a moment.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_01: I tend to get some fantastic kind of briefs come in.
• 0:57
  David McClelland: Filmic fine art photographer Nikki Hamilton joins me to chat about the process behind his highly personal projects.
• 1:05
  David McClelland: The in-person photography and video show is just around the corner.
• 1:09
  David McClelland: Saturday the 14th to Tuesday, the 17th of March 2026 at the NEC in Birmingham.
• 1:14
  David McClelland: Tickets are on sale now.
• 1:16
  David McClelland: And also today, we'll be revealing details of a photography and video show competition to win some cracking camera kit, including the full-frame Canon EOS R8 and a Pixmar Pro 200S professional photo printer.
• 1:29
  David McClelland: More details on that later on.
• 1:31
  David McClelland: Another packed podcast for you today, and joining me to cast an expert eye over this month's camera and photography news is Digital Camera World's Kim Booneman.
• 1:41
  David McClelland: Hello, Kim.
• 1:42
  David McClelland: Great to meet you.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_00: Hey, thank you so much for having me on the podcast.
• 1:45
  David McClelland: This is your first time here.
• 1:46
  David McClelland: Of course, you've been writing.
• 1:48
  David McClelland: Boy, are you prolific over at Digital Camera World as well.
• 1:51
  David McClelland: Loads and loads of stories with your name on them.
• 1:54
  David McClelland: Tell me what sort of stuff do you tend to cover there?
• 1:57
  David McClelland: What sort of stuff do you really enjoy covering there?
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_00: So I really enjoy covering general news, but my heartbeats for awards and um best-selling lists, because that gives us a very clear um view on the market at the moment and also on the future market.
• 2:14
  David McClelland: Lots of awards stuff actually.
• 2:15
  David McClelland: I've seen that you've covered a lot of that.
• 2:17
  David McClelland: And it's it's that time of year where there are lots of awards announcements, awards shortlists.
• 2:24
  David McClelland: I saw the Sony World Photography Awards shortlists come up only a few days or so ago.
• 2:30
  David McClelland: Take a look on Digital Camera World there if you want to see what's made the shortlist.
• 2:34
  David McClelland: Of course, we've covered that in the past here on the podcast as well.
• 2:38
  David McClelland: The controversies uh with that award, particularly as regards Gen AI.
• 2:42
  David McClelland: So you you can find all of those interviews in past uh past episodes of the photography show.
• 2:47
  David McClelland: And you can see this year's entries over there on Digital Camera World.
• 2:52
  David McClelland: Um, but Kim, you mentioned that you like you like lists uh and numbers, and the numbers are in as regards which cameras have been selling particularly well back in 2025.
• 3:06
  David McClelland: And maybe the maybe the numbers say something that might be a surprise to some.
• 3:13
  David McClelland: What have you found in these sales lists?
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, at the beginning of every year, the biggest photography news is the numbers from the year before.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_00: Retailers started publishing their yearly camera charts, and we don't talk about promises or spec sheets anymore.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_00: We do actually see what people bought.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_00: And when we look at the 2025 numbers, there is a pattern which is um really outstanding.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_00: And um that is that compact cameras are back and um not just in a nostalgic way.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_00: We see cheap and cheerful ones um and also dedicated pro or action compact cameras, and they do range from 1.6 to 102 megapixels.
• 3:58
  David McClelland: Well, a 1.6 megapixel camera.
• 4:00
  David McClelland: I've I've a hunch that I know exactly which camera you're talking about that was going absolutely crazy before Christmas there.
• 4:07
  David McClelland: But the headline there is that compact cameras that obviously were part of a mainstay of camera purchasing for such a long time are back are back leading that top 10.
• 4:17
  David McClelland: But at the expense of what though, what has maybe slipped off of that top 10 in 2025?
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_00: So um we have different markets.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_00: So when we have a look at the Japanese market, which is a really good um, you know, you see a lot of trends evolving here.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um, there is no compact camera in the top 10 list.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_00: When we have a look in the um US on the American market, it's um more of a mix.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_00: We have five in the top ten.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um but yeah, in the Japanese ones, there is no mirrorless model at all.
• 4:50
  David McClelland: Uh so sorry, just just to pick up there.
• 4:52
  David McClelland: So there are it's all compacts, there are no mirrorless in the top ten in in Japan.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, there is there's not a single mirrorless model in Japan.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_00: So that is a statement.
• 5:03
  David McClelland: It is it is a statement, and uh I I I saw this story.
• 5:07
  David McClelland: This is one of your stories uh on digital camera world.
• 5:10
  David McClelland: And again, we'll put links to all of these stories in the show notes if you want to dive into them further.
• 5:14
  David McClelland: But I have a theory about this that I want to run past you and see if you uh agree or not.
• 5:20
  David McClelland: It's been this year, it will be eight years since uh Canon, for example, with the EOS R, it launched its mirrorless range at Photokina, the last Photokina, RIP Photokina in Corona in 2018.
• 5:34
  David McClelland: And I wonder a couple of things.
• 5:35
  David McClelland: So, first of all, mainstream mirrorless systems have have matured, have got really, really good, of course, and people have been buying into them over the last five, six, seven or so years.
• 5:46
  David McClelland: It takes people time to switch systems because it's expensive and people will just want to, you know, see if it's going to be the right move for them.
• 5:54
  David McClelland: So a lot of people who were going to make that switch from DSLR to mirrorless, I think have now made that switch.
• 6:02
  David McClelland: And maybe kind of hunch one is that that swelling of people moving from DSLR to mirrorless camera, mirrored to mirrorless cameras, that's now happened, and that swell has now started to die down perhaps a little bit.
• 6:19
  David McClelland: And plus, tell me if this bit's true.
• 6:21
  David McClelland: There's kind of a diminishing returns thing, perhaps, because the leap to mirrorless, the initial leap to mirrorless, huge, lots of new capabilities.
• 6:31
  David McClelland: And while the right at the high end, those flagship cameras from your Sony's, your Canons, your Nikons, and so on, they have been pushing capabilities in terms of megapixel count, in terms of frames, in terms of autofocus and all the rest of that.
• 6:45
  David McClelland: That that kind of thick middle, the the mainstream that people, the cameras that people actually buy, while there has been innovation, it's not been the leaps and bounds necessarily.
• 6:57
  David McClelland: So my my thinking is that people have made the move over to mirrorless, and that's accounted for a lot of mirrorless being on the top 10 over the last few years.
• 7:07
  David McClelland: But once they've gone over to mirrorless, it's like, yeah, do you know what?
• 7:11
  David McClelland: For the camera that I'm gonna buy, maybe I don't need to upgrade, you know, they've not upgraded to mirrorless and then upgraded to a new mirrorless straight away, which maybe is why we're seeing the mirrorless numbers kind of tie back a little bit to what they were.
• 7:27
  David McClelland: I don't know what you think, but that that's my theory behind this.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you buy a camera, you have it for for a lot of years.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_00: It is a commitment.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_00: You do buy lenses, you have your accessoires, everything.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it all goes hand in hand, and you do invest so much that you, you know, you don't particularly want to change a system after three, four years again.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_00: You're committed.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_00: So it's very difficult to um, you know, change systems when you just invested a couple of years before.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_00: And the new mirror-less cameras, they come with so much features.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_00: The tech is so up to date.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_00: They do serve you well.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_00: You you don't even need a new camera to buy in the next 10 years or five years, depends on your subject.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_00: But yes, everyone seems to be settled with their mirror-less.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, some shoot still with DSLRs, which uh I'm guilty as well.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_00: I have not um sold my DSLR yet, um, because I just love it.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but yeah, technique becomes better and better.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_00: Features are just more up to date, they give you much more possibilities, and yeah, then you're stuck.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_00: And I mean it's good because you just spent a good amount of money on it.
• 8:39
  David McClelland: So, I mean, that that's one side of the argument, of course.
• 8:43
  David McClelland: But then on the other side, there's no denying that there has also been a swell of interest and a swell of innovation and new products, certainly, in the compact market as well.
• 8:54
  David McClelland: So, which are the kinds of compacts that you've seen, A, are showing that kind of innovation streak, but also are really chiming with uh charming perhaps consumers?
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_00: So, um charming for consumers, I think it's not even directed to professional photographers.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_00: Those cheap and cheap or compact cameras, it's not that it is uh, you know, I go tomorrow and buy this, you know, really, really plasticky looking uh gimmick camera to do my work.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um it's more of a compliment.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_00: It's something um even pros do get because it's light, it doesn't break your back.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um mirror systems are still um pretty heavy, specifically if you have telephoto lenses or whatever.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_00: So it's it's a camera which you just go out and snap and capture the moment instead of missing it.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um and I know a lot of people are like, oh yeah, but I have my phone with me all the time.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_00: It's like yes, that's great, and you can do pictures with it, but um compact cameras are, you know, they give you this shooting feeling.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_00: You shoot naturally different with one because a lot of them have little viewfinders.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_00: You compose the image completely different to how you would do with a f with a phone.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_00: And um phone cameras came uh a long, long way and they are good, but I still prefer to have something more camera-likely in my hand.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_00: And when we are looking at what the market brought, it's crazy because there's um, for example, the um medium format GFX 100 RF.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_00: It's a Fuji film, and um, that is the one which features 102 megapixels, and that is bigger than full frame.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_00: That's that's a statement.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and it's a very popular camera.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_00: It won a lot of awards last year for its thoughtfully design to bring this medium format um photography more to the mass, and you know, more people shoot it, they don't have to spend 10 grand for you know Hasselblatt or whatever, the premium medium format uh cameras.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_00: So compact cameras do really um break the game at the moment.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_00: And um I'm really excited to see what's what's coming next because uh there is there is room probably, but they already did quite a bit.
• 11:16
  David McClelland: Yeah, and and obviously cameras like uh Fujifilm, the uh X105, X106, uh, you know, they are serious cameras, like like we're saying, compact by name, but not really compact by specs, by capabilities, or by price for that matter.
• 11:36
  David McClelland: Compact does not mean a compact price.
• 11:38
  David McClelland: But one camera which is compact in almost all of the senses, capability, price, and format is what Kodak has been doing.
• 11:47
  David McClelland: And they were quite scarce as well before Christmas.
• 11:51
  David McClelland: They're uh you know very good stocking fillers.
• 11:53
  David McClelland: Uh the uh Charmerer, Charmerera, Charmerer, I think Charmer is what I'm going with.
• 11:59
  David McClelland: Yeah.
• 12:00
  David McClelland: What have you made of what have you made of that?
• 12:03
  David McClelland: Because its popularity was quite incredible before Christmas for for all of the good reasons.
• 12:09
  David McClelland: Um as far as a camera's concerned, maybe somewhat lacking.
• 12:13
  David McClelland: I don't know.
• 12:13
  David McClelland: What do you think?
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, the marketing was just brilliant because they come in these blind boxes.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_00: They're quite affordable.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, they they launched at$30, 30 pounds.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_00: I think they got now slightly more expensive due to the hype.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so you have seven um different designs.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_00: And I have one here actually, so I can show you.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_00: So if you watch the video uh on YouTube, you can see it.
• 12:38
  David McClelland: So this is You've got the blue one.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, I've got the blue one, and you can see the little tiny viewfinder up here.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_00: It has minimal controls.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um and yeah, a very tiny screen.
• 12:49
  David McClelland: So for those listening rather than watching, just hold it back up again though, Kim.
• 12:55
  David McClelland: It's about the size of a slightly squashed box of matches.
• 12:59
  David McClelland: And it's it does look like it's one of those vintage Kodak cameras that spin through a uh a shrinking gun.
• 13:09
  David McClelland: And if you just turn it around to the back, it's got it's got that viewfinder that dominates the back there.
• 13:15
  David McClelland: It almost looks like it's a mini Nintendo Switch Game Boy type thing with the with the prominent buttons.
• 13:22
  David McClelland: And most notably of all, it's got a key ring attachment to it as well.
• 13:27
  David McClelland: If you haven't seen one of these, then take a look online.
• 13:29
  David McClelland: But that means that you really can carry it around with you as part of your keychain everywhere you go.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_00: So this is the thing about the camera.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_00: It is so tiny, you can just take it everywhere you want.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_00: And those images are absolutely low resolution.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_00: There's nothing about high-quality photography here, absolutely not.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_00: It's not for professional shooting.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it is more about how the image feels.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and this is very, very important.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_00: And I mean, forget aperture either whatever with this one.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_00: You have no settings.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you have um you have yeah, nothing, nothing like that.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_00: But uh you can do shoot video with it.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um and yeah, if you if you've seen images of that one online, how how it captures things, it's like right back into the 2000s.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_00: It's this very nostalgic feel.
• 14:22
  David McClelland: Yeah.
• 14:22
  David McClelland: I mean, I speaking of that nostalgic feel, uh my I I had a compact camera that I absolutely loved, a Casio Exilim, which I think I bought on an aeroplane.
• 14:35
  David McClelland: Uh, and it might even have been my honeymoon.
• 14:38
  David McClelland: And I know that some of the images that I got on my honeymoons, this is the late 2000s.
• 14:42
  David McClelland: Uh, I know some of the images from my honeymoon were taken on that camera.
• 14:46
  David McClelland: Absolutely love that thing.
• 14:48
  David McClelland: Haven't got the faintest clue where it is, uh, unfortunately, but one camera I do know that where it is, because it it's at home and is getting semi-regular use by my kids who are teenagers and love the look that you were just speaking about there.
• 15:02
  David McClelland: Is um it's a uh Fujifilm Fine Pics job with a sliding lens cover, and that they're fetching some serious money on eBay at the moment, I have to say.
• 15:13
  David McClelland: Uh but yeah, uh it looks great.
• 15:16
  David McClelland: The flash is awful, the picture is awful, the user interface absolutely sucks, and it's it's terrible in low light.
• 15:24
  David McClelland: But my kids absolutely love how it looks, and I think it's the it's the imperfection.
• 15:30
  David McClelland: And if we just come back to the mirrorless, you know, to to all of the technical capabilities that m that cameras have now, yet it seems to be an authenticity, Big Rabbit's is and and a reality and an imperfection, which is the look that a lot of people are maybe favoring.
• 15:49
  David McClelland: I don't know, maybe this is some kind of reaction, anti-reaction to AI imaging and ultra hyper-realism imaging.
• 15:57
  David McClelland: There's something about the imperfection that makes these cameras, uh not not all of the compact cameras, but certainly these very, very accessible ones, really, really popular and really, really attractive.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_00: It it seems like, yeah, as you said, like a movement against this perfection, this clean image, the perfect light, this kind of like, yeah, was that short or is it uh AI?
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and a lot of people struggle with that online, absolutely.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and what photography is about is about capturing life, how it happens.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um, obviously you can do studio photography, whatever, uh, and more like, you know, set the scene and stuff.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_00: But photography is the only medium which can actually capture reality how it is.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_00: It's not painting, it's not, you know, drawing anything like that.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_00: It is how you how you capture it.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_00: And having a camera which is excellent, technically excellent, but is waiting a lot.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_00: So you carry this bulky thing with you.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you do think you do think about it when you just go for a walk or whatever, if you really bring it.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_00: And I mean, I think I'm talking for this for a lot of photographers here, is we all had this moment where we stood there and were like, oh, that's a great scene.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_00: But obviously, I don't have my medium for my whatever camera with me.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_00: So um you do miss it.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_00: And when you capture the moment with compacts, I mean the Kodak Chamra is low resolution, absolutely.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_00: But there are other compacts which um are actually decent.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_00: And you do capture this moment, you don't miss it, and then you go home happy and have a little bit of you know creative freedom.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_00: You you didn't miss it.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's a great feeling, and um I think that's partly also affect why compact cameras come come back now that you know they dominate clearly uh in some spectrum of the market.
• 17:50
  David McClelland: And in terms of new releases then, manufacturers are are jumping on this.
• 17:55
  David McClelland: What is what what is coming out over the next few weeks and months that uh are are hooking into this?
• 18:02
  David McClelland: I know there have been a few announcements and some some new cameras that are being made available around about now.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, 2026 so far.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um the compact camera releases are very interesting.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_00: So we have again this um Murrod reaction from the market from 2025.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_00: So we have um fun, playful compacts that bring this nostalgic feel and the simplicity back to photography.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um in this case, we've seen the Kodak Printomatic Plus.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um it launched globally mid-January.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um and it's tiny and has a built-in fill uh printer.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_00: So you can actually shoot, print.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_00: They have out credit-sized um picture, photos, prints.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_00: And um, if I remember correctly, the camera is around like 80 quid, something like that.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um so yeah, it's five megapixels, it's nothing about high quality, but it's more about this fun again.
• 19:00
  David McClelland: Capturing the memory, capturing the moment, I guess, is is what and and and instantly-ish being able to uh enjoy it and take it away as well.
• 19:09
  David McClelland: Very good.
• 19:10
  David McClelland: That's what Kodak's been doing.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_00: Very social, interacting cameras.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_00: And then we've seen a very um yeah, oddly camera.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_00: It's um the Fujifilm Inc Instax Mini Evo Cinema.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um it is weirdly fun.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um so it has a dedicated dial um that mimics old Cine cameras.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it can shoot 15-second video clips, and it is a true retro camera.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_00: It looks cool.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_00: It is really, really nice.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_00: So if you haven't seen it, it's worth looking it up.
• 19:43
  David McClelland: Yeah, I I think this was that this broke cover around about the time of CES, the Consumer Electronics Show, at the beginning of January, and it really did capture imagination of a lot of uh well, filmmakers, uh photographers, because of the kind of retro styling, you know, you're holding it up, it it looks like a looks like one of those retro video cameras.
• 20:04
  David McClelland: And am I right in recalling that it's got a little dial that actually takes you through the decades?
• 20:10
  David McClelland: You can choose the look, choose the filter um based upon the kind of time era that you twist the dial to.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes, exactly.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_00: It is is fun.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_00: I really want to get my hands on one, so that's next on my list, I think.
• 20:25
  David McClelland: Um and then finally, uh Rico.
• 20:29
  David McClelland: Rico, tell me what Rico is doing.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, so we Rico sits on the other end of the spectrum.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_00: We've seen the Rico GR1V or monochrome.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_00: So it launched mid-January.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and to the time of speaking, it is short in demand in Europe.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_00: So um it is a dedicated black and white camera.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_00: So no colour sensor, nothing, just pure monochrome.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_00: And um, that design means to get incredibly sharp detail, rich tonal separation, and this microcontrast you would just not get when you shoot um colour and then convert it in you know Photoshop or whatever, um, and post-production.
• 21:10
  David McClelland: Sounds really, really interesting.
• 21:12
  David McClelland: And I mean, whatever you think, it's a really exciting time to have innovation, not just in the flagship part of the of the camera ecosystem, but innovation all the way from the Charmara and what Instax is doing, what Fujifilm is doing, all the way up as well, and whether that's like you know, the the next Fujifilm uh high-end kind of compact camera, the X100, who knows when an X107 will come out or what Rico's doing here.
• 21:45
  David McClelland: It's an exciting time where the camera manufacturers are finding different ways to sate our creativity, and it's not just about more megapixels, faster shutter speed, you know, that that kind of goes without saying, but Going back all the way to my opening point about maybe why mirrorless cameras are falling out of that top ten, there is a sense in which I think it's sort of diminishing returns.
• 22:09
  David McClelland: You know, how many megapixels is enough?
• 22:12
  David McClelland: Really?
• 22:13
  David McClelland: How many frames a second is enough for the majority of people?
• 22:16
  David McClelland: And, you know, whether it is being able to turn a dial and get different looks from different decades, that's a really unique way of helping people to literally dial in their their creativity and their look.
• 22:28
  David McClelland: I'm I'm I'm really excited about it.
• 22:30
  David McClelland: And in your job, literally writing about this stuff and and trying out these cameras, it must be a really exciting time too, Kim.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_00: I'm excited to see what's next because as you said, um we do get more um for an accessible price um in a small package, it's more practical.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_00: And um yeah, with the monochrome now, it's um it's a it's another statement.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_00: It's something new.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_00: And um with the accessibility, um when we think about monochrome cameras, they are expensive.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_00: They are really, really expensive.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_00: So Lycers, I mean they are full frame, but they are like five times more expensive than the Rico now.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um so more people have access to photography tools, which should be, you know, this is the main thing people should shoot, even if you're not a professional photographer.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_00: You can just go get a get a camera and try, and they foster your creativity through the filters, through the modes and and everything.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_00: So I hope that photography becomes again a field where more people try and don't always follow the same patterns, you know, the same aperture settings we know, or shoot wide and whatever.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_00: But um, there is a lot more.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_00: And um, I think some people will be surprised about what route they will or study they will follow in photography through those little fun cameras, just to open new, you know, eras and subjects they thought or never thought before.
• 24:00
  David McClelland: Kim, thank you for bringing the the numbers.
• 24:03
  David McClelland: You know, obviously that's the starting point for our discussion about the role that compact cameras are playing in the market right now and the creativity and the way that the manufacturers are leaning into that to uh really find new ways to support our creativity.
• 24:17
  David McClelland: Fascinating conversation.
• 24:19
  David McClelland: Thank you so much for bringing it in.
• 24:20
  David McClelland: If people want to keep up with you and the stories that you write and the things you are across, uh where is the best place for them to do that?
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um it's digital camera world.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_00: So you find everything there.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_00: Even more.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_00: And um, we have reviews, we we test those fun cameras, um, also the more flagship and more professional ones.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um so just have a look.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_00: You will find everything you need there.
• 24:45
  David McClelland: Links to there and to all the stories and cameras that we've been speaking about today in the show notes for this episode.
• 24:51
  David McClelland: For now, Kim, great to chat with you.
• 24:53
  David McClelland: Thank you for joining us here on the Photography and Video Show podcast.
• 24:56
  David McClelland: Hope to catch up with you again soon.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 25:01
  David McClelland: Making the move from ad agency art director to fine art photographer, Nikki Hamilton is now best known for his emotionally evocative, filmic, narrative work.
• 25:12
  David McClelland: The Lonely Man, an intensely personal project about his childhood relationship with his father, brought Nikki overnight acclaim, though it took him almost four painstaking years to create.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_01: I describe my work as very cinematic.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um I've got a big love for movies, and it's work that is um very thoughtful, um, emotionally led and crafted almost like a steel from a movie.
• 25:47
  David McClelland: Crafted.
• 25:49
  David McClelland: There's definitely a lot to unpack with that word.
• 25:52
  David McClelland: Uh the craft, the detail that you put into it.
• 25:56
  David McClelland: And when I was looking through your work, Nikki, I I found myself thinking there's the cliche, isn't there?
• 26:00
  David McClelland: A picture sells a thousand words.
• 26:02
  David McClelland: As I was looking through your work, I was thinking, my word, a thousand words doesn't even scratch the surface of a lot of the images that that you make.
• 26:11
  David McClelland: It's it is, as you describe it there, it's a freeze frame from a beautiful piece of cinema.
• 26:17
  David McClelland: And my mind wants to see the 70 minutes either side of each one of those pieces of work that you make.
• 26:24
  David McClelland: Who and what has influenced the style that you have now?
• 26:28
  David McClelland: We'll talk about how it all evolves later on, but in terms of how you describe your work and what's been good for you for the last 10 plus years, where's that come from?
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um I was an art director um in an advertising agency, and I was very exposed to you know advertising photography and this kind of everything's perfect and everything's pretty.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um I kind of fell down the route of wanting to evolve in my career, and storytelling is really important to me.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_01: So naturally I thought, okay, I need to be a director, you know, I need to tell stories.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um but I stumbled on the work of Gregory Kruisden, um, and I just totally fell in love with these kind of cinematic moments, these masterpieces that are, you know, they're almost like films within their self, um, all packed in a frame.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_01: To me, that style of work was kind of profound in in in in in how I kind of had my aha moment.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um I I I still had the passion to be a director, but to be honest, I love full control.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_01: I love to kind of work solo and to work almost like an you know, like a painter on a blank canvas and kind of come up, conjure these kind of stories so then I can then craft and work out all the details.
• 27:55
  David McClelland: And there are very just thinking to Gregory's work and my reflections on your work, these are big frames that you're shooting.
• 28:02
  David McClelland: You know, these are wide, there's a lot of detail, it's that there's a lot that's being crammed in.
• 28:09
  David McClelland: Yet at the same time, there is so much emotion from your protagonists in there, even though they're a small part in terms of the proportion of the frame.
• 28:18
  David McClelland: Everything, the lighting, the the detail, the mood, however you choose to put that across, is is so strong, despite the fact that similarly with a lot of Gregory's work as well, the humans in there, you're having to really lean in in order to in order to see them.
• 28:36
  David McClelland: Let's talk about uh about some of your work.
• 28:38
  David McClelland: And I'm aware that some of it may be well known among a good group of people.
• 28:43
  David McClelland: Some people will be coming to it for the first time, and maybe going chronologically a bit would be a a good way of looking at it for a moment.
• 28:51
  David McClelland: And the first project that I have to bring up, which I think was a big moment for you in your career, is the the lonely man, which is is that 17 images?
• 29:00
  David McClelland: 17 images.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_01: 17 images, yeah.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_01: It took it took me three and a half years to make, and that was back to back three and a half years.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_01: It was roughly, I think, about three months per image averaged out.
• 29:13
  David McClelland: And you were doing all of this yourself, you know.
• 29:14
  David McClelland: You spoke a moment ago about control and wanting to do everything, everything in those images was was yours.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so I left MNC Saatchi and I kind of freelanced as an art director for a bit, you know, to keep the bills covered.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I left to be this fine art photographer, if you like.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_01: I wasn't even thinking about commercial.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and that was a really good mindset because I just had the mindset of I want to create work that I care about rather than trying to create a portfolio that fits in the commercial atmosphere.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_01: I thought, okay, if I'm gonna shoot a project, it needs to be something that I really, really care about.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um if you're gonna dedicate that much time.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_01: So The Lonely Man is the story of my relationship with my dad and kind of what I witnessed growing up as a kid.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_01: Each of the images are set builds, drawn out obviously first as a kind of as a memory, as a moment, and then kind of built in cinema 4D, building this set, this space.
• 30:14
  David McClelland: This is your process.
• 30:15
  David McClelland: This is very much the kind of cinematographer's process here, the the the pre-visation set.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so pre-vision this kind of moment and what this what this environment feels like, and you know, a lot of the images are based on you know my family home or these locations we used to visit as as a kid.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_01: The concept being that what is this moment?
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_01: What does it feel?
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_01: You know, there's there's one very strong image in there where there's two boys, me me and my younger brother in a hallway looking up through a ceiling light.
• 30:48
  David McClelland: What what what are you looking at there?
• 30:50
  David McClelland: So it it there's light coming down from that loft.
• 30:54
  David McClelland: There's no ladder going up to it in the in the sequence of of pictures up until that point.
• 31:00
  David McClelland: I think we get an idea that all is not well in the Hamilton household.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_01: That idea came from basically my dad used to crawl around and hide things in the loft, which then kind of made us feel like as kids, like what's going on there.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_01: It was quite creepy, and you know, and then there's a secondary kind of underlining tone of like this heavenly kind of moment as well, and then that kind of knocks on to another image which has police and others searching my bedroom.
• 31:28
  David McClelland: Oh, you're right.
• 31:29
  David McClelland: Okay, yes, shining that torch in your in your face.
• 31:33
  David McClelland: These are deeply personal memories, there's this deeply challenging stuff, and very often this is the sort of stuff that people don't want to talk about publicly, but yeah, you did very, very openly.
• 31:47
  David McClelland: And as you said, you know, write what you know, whatever craft, whatever art you're working in, write what you know to begin with to help you find your voice.
• 31:55
  David McClelland: Um, it's a very brave decision for your first big project to visit some of this stuff.
• 32:02
  David McClelland: Clearly, there's a creative endeavor there, the kind of realization of a creative vision, but there's also a self-analysis, a self-understanding element to this as well.
• 32:12
  David McClelland: How was it emotionally for you revisiting some of these obviously kind of painful moments from your childhood?
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, it was very cathartic.
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_01: It was healing, you know, when you invest that much time and energy and you have to kind of pick apart the pieces, open some locked doors, you know, and kind of you try to process these emotions.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_01: Uh it it was it was healing.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_01: It was, I'm really, really glad I'd done it.
• 32:38
  David McClelland: Did you eventually uh almost disassociate your the the work, the output?
• 32:44
  David McClelland: Obviously, you had to dive it, you had to open those doors, you had to explore those moments, those memories, and then bring them to life, as it were.
• 32:51
  David McClelland: Do you is there still a strong connection between those images and the uh the memories for you, or ultimately did these images take on another life as they've gone out into the open?
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, uh totally.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's the the emotion from it is gone now.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, okay.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's you know, I've shared them with my dad, you know.
• 33:14
  David McClelland: I wanted to ask about this.
• 33:15
  David McClelland: I wanted to ask.
• 33:16
  David McClelland: So this is about your relationship with your dad.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 33:20
  David McClelland: Um what how did that go?
• 33:23
  David McClelland: Uh how did the moment when you showed him these images go?
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, I worked in silence on these for three and a half years, as I said, and never never told him what I was up to.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_01: Just, you know, I'm just creating work.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_01: And then at the end, I kind of released the project to the world and it kind of went crazy, you know.
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_01: All the blogs picked it up and you know, lots and lots of shares.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_01: And I thought, I've got to tell him now, I've got to tell him now, you know, it's being reshared on Facebook.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I kind of text him, you know, what you know, what the project was about, and uh his response was wow.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_01: And I was I was like, is that a wow or a wow?
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_01: You know, is it a anyway?
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_01: It was fine.
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_01: I think he was I think he was a bit taken back at you know at the start, but ultimately, you know, I knew that what my dad's been through and where he is today, um he knows how proud I am of him.
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_01: So it it kind of balanced out.
• 34:19
  David McClelland: I was showing my wife your work last night uh on this project in particular over dinner, as you do.
• 34:24
  David McClelland: Yeah, uh and she works in the in a mental health in a sort of psychology space, um, hence some of the books but behind me.
• 34:32
  David McClelland: And she wondered, she had this question, and I I I'm gonna not ask it to you as a question, but just as an interesting reflection, perhaps, what an 18th image would be depicting your father and your relationship with him more recently, perhaps as you discussed that work or reflected on that work.
• 34:51
  David McClelland: I I wonder what how that relationship has kind of landed at right now and what that image would look like.
• 34:57
  David McClelland: That that's the sort of creative psychology work that she does.
• 35:01
  David McClelland: But uh, I found myself when she asked that, going, Wow, I wonder what that would look like.
• 35:07
  David McClelland: Um there's no need to respond to that uh because that that's that that's whole mindfielding sure.
• 35:13
  David McClelland: Yeah.
• 35:14
  David McClelland: Um, that was your first big project, took you a while, but you won an AOP awards, it it went pretty viral.
• 35:21
  David McClelland: Yeah, uh, and and you've won many awards since then.
• 35:24
  David McClelland: That thing of working in silence for a little while and then having a bit of a real reveal towards the end.
• 35:31
  David McClelland: It's a bit of a recurrent theme because another project I want to talk about, Take Me Away, uh, with the old Canton House restaurant.
• 35:38
  David McClelland: That was another one where you went away quietly and built this thing in your studio, yeah, and then there was a kind of reveal towards the end of that.
• 35:50
  David McClelland: Take us on that journey.
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_01: So after the Lonely Man, I was kind of itching to kind of be in a different headspace, you know, less about me and more kind of um observant to the world around me.
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I was driving home one night from my studio, and went it was in South End, my studio at the time, and then went along the seaside, and there's this beautiful old takeaway restaurant um that's been there since the 60s, and there was just a gentleman sitting behind the counter watching TV, waiting for customers.
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_01: And I just I'd literally pulled over and I just thought, this is such a such a moment, you know.
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_01: It's almost like an establisher in a film.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_01: And it just made me reflect on like the future of fast food and deliveroo, and you know, and then it brought me back to like my journey as a kid, you know, going to the to to pick up your takeaway with your dad, and you get a film out in blockbusters and all this stuff.
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, so I really kind of sat with it for a for a few days.
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_01: I went back a few times, pulled over like a stalker.
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um I just started to notice these really interesting characters going in there, sitting down, you know, some reading papers, some on their phone.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I just thought, you know, it's it's kind of like it's a melting pot of society, and it's also it also reflects like the lonely act of waiting in there, you know, that these people just waiting and what you do with your time.
• 37:21
  David McClelland: Yeah, you've got all sorts of characters who appear in this in this uh takeaway.
• 37:27
  David McClelland: I'll come to those in a moment.
• 37:29
  David McClelland: Um, so you have a you've observed this this subject, this this this takeaway.
• 37:35
  David McClelland: You decide to do something with it.
• 37:37
  David McClelland: So what do you go and do with it?
• 37:39
  David McClelland: And at what point do you reveal?
• 37:42
  David McClelland: Reason why I'm I guess it comes back to casting in a way.
• 37:45
  David McClelland: Uh, how do you cast your protagonist uh in this one?
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_01: So how this is this is a funny story.
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_01: So I went in to the uh takeaway and ordered some food and had a closer look, and I thought, okay, maybe I could shoot here, you know, take over the restaurant for uh a day or two, and I thought, ah, but the problem is, you know, the way I light, I like to use lots of lighting.
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_01: I need more space and I want it to be very cinematic where the camera can be further back and so forth.
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_01: So I decided to build the restaurant in my studio, as you do.
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um so every single night I'd go there, order my foods.
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_01: Tony, who's the owner, um, would take your order, he would go in the kitchen, he would cook it and bring it back, you know, one man kind of band shop.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_01: So when he was in the kitchen, I'd get my take measure out, measure everything, write down all my notes, and then off I go back to the studio next day, start building, building, building.
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then eventually I I went back in.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_01: Obviously, I knew everything about Tony by now, his best customer, and I said, Tony, I've got something to tell you.
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_01: I've I've rebuilt your takeaway restaurant in my studio.
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um, he was blown away, thought I was mad.
• 38:59
  SPEAKER_01: He came came to visit, and then I asked him if he would be the protagonist in the story, and then there you go.
• 39:06
  David McClelland: That's incredible, and I think he does I'm sure it's all down to the skill of the director as well as Tony himself, but he he looks great in that environment.
• 39:16
  David McClelland: And I think it's is it the final shot of the sequence where the closed sign is on the door and he's sat waiting on his own with the vacuum cleaner in front of him, yeah.
• 39:28
  David McClelland: Uh just lost in his own thoughts.
• 39:30
  David McClelland: Such a striking again sequence of images, I think.
• 39:34
  David McClelland: Okay.
• 39:34
  David McClelland: Terrific, terrific work.
• 39:36
  David McClelland: I love the dog.
• 39:37
  David McClelland: I I know there's a story around the the dog in there as well.
• 39:40
  David McClelland: But let's let let's talk about the casting and the talent because Tony was an obvious lead character in in that sequence of shots.
• 39:50
  David McClelland: What about the others?
• 39:51
  David McClelland: Where are you finding these faces, these the these bodies from?
• 39:55
  SPEAKER_01: Street casting, um, a few friends.
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_01: What's so great about having a set in a studio?
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_01: You can kind of pause, you know, turn the lights off, spend a day or two, find, find, you know, a character or bump into someone.
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I've done some test shots with some people that I didn't quite think, you know, gave me what I wanted, and you try some other people.
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_01: And it's just I really like that way of working, you know, where I'm working at my pace rather than you know, working at a deadline.
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so yeah, a real mixture of local people.
• 40:29
  David McClelland: And it I guess if you're hiring talent, if you're hiring actors and models and so on, they are because they've got a day rate, I guess, that they're the ones who are kind of calling time a little bit and they're the ones who are influencing your creative journey.
• 40:43
  David McClelland: And if, as you say, control is important for you, then you've got a bit more flexibility.
• 40:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's that, and also for my personal work, you know, it's very different to commercial work, you know, where everything's got to be approved and signed off, you know, and you need stylists and all sorts.
• 40:57
  SPEAKER_01: With my fine artwork, I I really liked things to be very natural.
• 41:02
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, there's there's there's a shot in the project which which has a boy like just sitting there and he's biting his top and he's just waiting, he's in a rugby kit.
• 41:12
  SPEAKER_01: He would always go to the Chinese after rugby, yeah.
• 41:14
  SPEAKER_01: So I thought, brilliant, you're great, you know.
• 41:16
  SPEAKER_01: He's got this lovely long hair, and I was setting up, I was hazing all the studio, so he was getting all the lights kind of just warming up and everything else.
• 41:25
  SPEAKER_01: And then I shot this on the film camera, I kind of leant over and I'd done a test shot and I got the shot.
• 41:31
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it was him just waiting and being in the moment, and then he looked up and said, Right, we're done, you know.
• 41:37
  SPEAKER_01: But if there was a team around us, or everyone's analysing and breaking things apart, it would have been different, you know, it would have been less kind of reportage and more kind of constructed.
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_01: So I do like to plan, but then I do like there to be that that kind of you know element of photography, which is you know, finding a moment.
• 41:58
  David McClelland: I love both those projects.
• 41:59
  David McClelland: Maybe we'll be able to chat about the upside down work in a in a few minutes' time, but I just want to go back a little bit.
• 42:05
  David McClelland: Uh, you mentioned earlier on you've worked agency side, art design creative director, MSC Sarchi, all of that sort of stuff.
• 42:11
  David McClelland: Uh, what would have been, I was thinking about this, a really, really interesting time, emergence of lots of these new digital channels for creativity, mobile, social, all of that sort of stuff.
• 42:23
  David McClelland: Um, you were working with a lot of photographers and directors and so on back then.
• 42:27
  David McClelland: What was your relationship with photographers when you were on the agency side of the table?
• 42:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it was, you know, I think I've got a really interesting background from when I was 16, I actually my my first job was working for Disney as a designer or an agency.
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so it was like straight into that world, then straight kind of flip-flopping into advertising, conceptual, you know, and then working with some of the best photographers and directors in the world, you know, and I think for me, for me, having that kind of palette of talent and different roles and aspects is really helped, yeah, really helped kind of see the journey through photography and image making and how it kind of transitioned into social media and yeah, you know, the influx of like so many images a day on Instagram.
• 43:19
  David McClelland: Yeah, and and your work in some ways is is the antithesis or it at least is the balance to that.
• 43:24
  David McClelland: Everyone's a repertage photographer now because we've got a you know a 4K 20 megapixel, 40 megapixel camera in our pocket, glued to our hand, but there's not a great deal of planning in that.
• 43:34
  David McClelland: So your work is really the counterbalance to that.
• 43:38
  David McClelland: And then from from a business point of view, Nikki, uh having worked with a lot of photographers, directors, and so on, I'm sure it's been very helpful for you on the other side, in terms of knowing what the processes are, knowing what creative directors, what uh what what art directors, what commissioners and commissioning editors are looking for.
• 43:58
  David McClelland: You're already there.
• 44:00
  David McClelland: You've done that job already, and you can be the best freelancer, the best supplier in the world.
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_01: No, absolutely.
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_01: I totally understand what the client needs are and how that kind of translates into like the marketing toolkit and you know how we uh how we how we get smart with the production and yeah, how we get you know, pre you use pre-visualizations to kind of work out what we think in pre-production.
• 44:24
  SPEAKER_01: Because that was a big, big, big issue of mine being an art director.
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_01: That I'd work with a lot of photographers and I'd want to know more on how they're gonna shoot this.
• 44:33
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, sometimes I think that you know, people are stuck in their older ways and haven't evolved.
• 44:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I really wanted to offer this this kind of pre-viz, kind of let's design a shot all together and then let's go craft this.
• 44:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I it's definitely a unique approach.
• 44:51
  David McClelland: On that word evolve, then how do you feel as though your work has evolved?
• 44:56
  David McClelland: Or maybe your working practices have evolved?
• 44:59
  David McClelland: And you spoke about right at the beginning wanting to have a hand or to be in control of everything, to be crafting everything yourself, hence the uh elongated uh shoot time for one of these projects.
• 45:13
  David McClelland: As you know, 10 years more has passed since then.
• 45:18
  David McClelland: How has your I guess output evolved and how has your process evolved in that time, would you say?
• 45:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it I it's massively evolved.
• 45:26
  SPEAKER_01: I was quite heavily into a big project at the time when uh AI kind of grabbed hold of the industry and I just thought this is gonna be such a big investment of time and money.
• 45:42
  SPEAKER_01: Is people gonna just read this as AI?
• 45:45
  David McClelland: Right.
• 45:45
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, uh Matt, like you know, I don't want to give away the the concept or the butt because I still might do it, but um yeah, but so for me it kind of made me pause, it made me stop, and it made me kind of question um how I kind of move forward in this new space.
• 46:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um I have been I've been kind of exploring being more of a kind of uh kind of constructed kind of photographer, image maker, but then in more of a natural setting.
• 46:17
  SPEAKER_01: And I think a good example of that is the work that I shot recently in Japan uh with Fiji Film.
• 46:24
  SPEAKER_01: You know, finding these stories, these kind of these sub-stories of people falling asleep in restaurants, you know, and it's culturally accepted.
• 46:34
  SPEAKER_01: And it's actually, you know, it's quite an honour, you know.
• 46:38
  SPEAKER_01: People people see somebody's working hard and they can sleep wherever they want, you know.
• 46:42
  SPEAKER_01: So I kind of went out in Tokyo between 1 a.m.
• 46:47
  SPEAKER_01: and 4am and just and just explored, you know, and find these little pools of light and kind of created these moments that to me I think they they they're they kind of tie in to the path of take me away, you know, finding these little stories.
• 47:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um it's a big flip-flop, you know, like scary, scary because I don't know if I'm gonna get the shot, but quite exciting as well.
• 47:10
  David McClelland: And what I loved about that project or that that output is there was a little clip that I think you might have put on social media where you're on your smartphone and you're literally doing a pan of this restaurant in Tokyo at 4 a.m.
• 47:25
  David McClelland: and it's on your smartphone, and you go, why is everyone asleep?
• 47:28
  David McClelland: Yeah.
• 47:28
  David McClelland: And then it whips around to the shot of your camera, and then bam.
• 47:33
  David McClelland: And then we see essentially you've got your sub, you've got your raw subjects in front of you.
• 47:39
  David McClelland: We get the context, we get the idea, but then cut to the output.
• 47:44
  David McClelland: And that's when we start to really feel, I guess, the photographer, the equipment, the skill, the craft, all of it.
• 47:52
  David McClelland: I guess we see we saw behind the scenes, and then we see the final output, and the images are striking.
• 47:58
  David McClelland: Of all of the images of people asleep at the table in these in these restaurants, that's one thing.
• 48:04
  David McClelland: It is the image of the two guys, and one of them is flipping you a middle finger from around the face of the other one.
• 48:11
  David McClelland: Uh, that I found particularly exciting there.
• 48:14
  David McClelland: Another project that you've worked on, I think was another Fujifilm project, is is Hope.
• 48:18
  David McClelland: That was fairly recently.
• 48:20
  David McClelland: Uh, there was a big team involved in this project.
• 48:23
  David McClelland: Well, what can you tell us about about that and how this is an evolution of your of your process?
• 48:30
  David McClelland: Because this was there were lots of different composites that went into making this final image.
• 48:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so that was a fantastic project to work on.
• 48:43
  SPEAKER_01: Fujifilm challenged me to use the GFX and to to kind of push it, you know, and see what we can we can create together.
• 48:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I wanted to be quite daring with the idea.
• 48:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, a boy on a raft in the sea, you know, rising up for adversity during challenging times.
• 49:07
  SPEAKER_01: I kind of felt was very apt for like the world and mindset needed.
• 49:12
  SPEAKER_01: And I wanted to shoot all the elements in camera, you know, to then kind of composite and retouch together to create this this moment of hope.
• 49:23
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, leaned into like pre-vision, used a little bit of AI in the kind of pre-visual stage just to kind of sketch out some ideas, then took that into cinema 4D and kind of then broke down all the stages.
• 49:35
  SPEAKER_01: So the raft is a set build, the sharks were were models.
• 49:40
  SPEAKER_01: We kind of then done some test work out in sea and shot some plates and sky.
• 49:44
  SPEAKER_01: And then ultimately we then shot the the the kind of uh the raft in a swimming pool, using kind of bins to kind of create these waves of pulling sharks through.
• 49:56
  SPEAKER_01: You know, is it's a very, yeah, okay, you know, there's good budget there for lighting and props and and whatnot.
• 50:01
  SPEAKER_01: But ultimately, I think it does show the mindset of just getting a few friends together, you know, and just you know, having a go really at kind of putting your kind of ideas together.
• 50:14
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's that's kind of how I started.
• 50:16
  David McClelland: You're absolutely right there.
• 50:17
  David McClelland: It is a mixture, obviously, of the kind of visual effects, well, maybe visual effects, CGR, using technology to support the image, but there's a lot of good old-fashioned practical special effects in there as well, and using a bin to create the right ripple on the water and having the smoke guns and all the rest of that.
• 50:35
  David McClelland: It's it's it's that mix of the two, which I think is the it's an exciting place right now when it comes to creativity.
• 50:42
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, for sure.
• 50:42
  David McClelland: Um, mental health.
• 50:44
  David McClelland: I mean, maybe this comes back all the way to the lonely man, but mental health is very much uh a theme throughout your work.
• 50:52
  David McClelland: And I'm thinking of some other, some other images of yours where, particularly in your studio, you've gone to extraordinary lengths to to tell a story, to to depict a moment, to depict a feeling.
• 51:06
  David McClelland: I'm thinking one where there's a lot of there's a gentleman on a sofa, there's a lot of mud and barbed wire on the floor.
• 51:14
  David McClelland: Tell me about that image.
• 51:16
  SPEAKER_01: So I think first up, I think, yeah, as you as you touched on, mental health is almost like a for me, was the byproduct of of the lonely man.
• 51:25
  SPEAKER_01: You know, my dad lost his business and kind of then fell into a bit of a a dark place with his mental health.
• 51:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um and that really struck a chord with me, you know, and w whilst I was trying to understand some of the reasons, I kind of fell back onto that and it it really made me kind of care about mental health in in everyone, but especially you know, especially fathers, I think, because I could really um kind of connect with that.
• 51:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um now the guy on the sofa surrounded by a barbed wire, was actually something that reflects PTSD.
• 52:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um yeah, so something something quite bad happened to my son.
• 52:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um it wasn't kind of war-related.
• 52:16
  SPEAKER_01: He just there was an incident, you know, and he it was he he, you know, he was very upset and kind of traumatised for a while by it and had to have some counselling.
• 52:25
  SPEAKER_01: And it made me really reflect about we all have moments in our life that we kind of cling, you know, that cling on to us.
• 52:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so I I I in this show I imagine that this guy is having flashbacks to being in the army, and you know, he's the kind of worlds emerge where the barbed wire's still there and he's kind of still struggling in that kind of headspace.
• 52:52
  David McClelland: I think it's a very relatable image.
• 52:54
  David McClelland: Obviously, there's a a really personal story behind it, and the same goes back to the to the lonely man.
• 52:59
  David McClelland: I think we can all we can all relate to to moments, to feelings, you know, it's it's what we bring, it's what we invest into these images, is is what we get out of it.
• 53:08
  David McClelland: That's a striking image.
• 53:10
  David McClelland: Your family, one way or another, either directly or indirectly, features in a lot of your work.
• 53:15
  David McClelland: Yeah, there's the upside down, which was a a COVID project sort of uh featuring your sons.
• 53:23
  David McClelland: And another image that I want to talk about, which uh I understand is about your family, but it didn't feature your family directly, which is Scarlett and her baby Gabriel.
• 53:34
  David McClelland: Uh tell me about tell me about where that came from.
• 53:38
  SPEAKER_01: So that idea was oh god, it was a long time in the making.
• 53:42
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, the seed of the idea came from my wife um when she gave birth to our son Henry, um, and she really kind of fell into this this this this stage of postnatal depression.
• 53:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um and she changed, you know, it's just the hormones and the loss of self and the disconnect, but this crazy amount of love, but then this crazy amount of hormones and kind of losing touch on reality for a bit, and it was it was quite serious for a while, you know, and then kind of things balanced out, and then you know, she was so young, she was only 22 at the time.
• 54:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um so that that that kind of that feeling stayed with me, and when I went into the mental health space, um kind of exploring different areas of that, that definitely kept coming back to me.
• 54:36
  SPEAKER_01: And it took me about three years to work out how as a male, um, how to have that that kind of conversation, you know, through photography.
• 54:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um but then one summer we were camping, and my lovely friend Scarlett uh was there with her baby Gabriel, and she was breastfeeding, and I walked past and she kind of looked up and she said to me, When will it end?
• 55:05
  SPEAKER_01: And it just really panged me for a bit, and I just thought, she's really suffering.
• 55:10
  SPEAKER_01: And so literally the next day I I thought this is this is this is it.
• 55:17
  SPEAKER_01: We found our protagonist.
• 55:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I had a kitchen um set builds in my studio, which which was there from the upside down, yes, and I thought, okay, let's put Scarlett in a fridge, you know, loaded.
• 55:34
  David McClelland: Surrounded by milk, yeah.
• 55:36
  SPEAKER_01: Because, you know, milk machine mums, you know, they're this kind of vessel to kind of uh for life, and um she just made the image work, you know.
• 55:45
  SPEAKER_01: So put in the fridge, surrounded by balloons, happiness, banners, all the things associated with, you know, childbirth, and then having this moment where, you know, baby Gabriel is kind of on the on the breast, and it's like the veins in the milk and everything, it's almost like draining mum, and she looks she looks so kind of Madonna-esque in her kind of hair, and the way we backlit was this with this kind of angelic light that you know she's she's mum, she's she's she's goddess, you know.
• 56:16
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, really, really pleased.
• 56:18
  SPEAKER_01: It was it was it just felt right to me.
• 56:21
  David McClelland: How old is Gabriel now, baby Gabriel?
• 56:24
  David McClelland: Um, I I can imagine that he'll be very uh interested when he's a bit older to see that image of him and his mum.
• 56:29
  David McClelland: I'd I'd love to understand what his uh response to that image is.
• 56:32
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely, yeah, absolutely.
• 56:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that yeah, we've got yeah, we've got a big print.
• 56:38
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, it's it's it's something lovely.
• 56:40
  SPEAKER_01: And anyone who works for me gets a big print.
• 56:44
  David McClelland: Uh and then one final image for me uh on on the mental health piece.
• 56:49
  David McClelland: It in a way is very different, I think, to a lot of the other images that you've made.
• 56:53
  David McClelland: And we've spoken about the big frame, about the detail, at least the the the detail in terms of stuff in the frame.
• 57:00
  David McClelland: This is a maybe very simple, maybe deceptively simple image of uh of a man who is being squashed by the yellow, but by these two yellow walls.
• 57:11
  David McClelland: Where where did that come from?
• 57:12
  David McClelland: And what what made you I guess in a sense deviate from at least the the visual that you have established up until that point?
• 57:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, for for me, I just wanted to do something very kind of graphic and simple and paired back.
• 57:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I thought, how can I how what's the easiest route to explain the emotion of you know, suffocating when everything around you're great and golden?
• 57:45
  SPEAKER_01: How can we how can we make that feel like a struggle still?
• 57:48
  SPEAKER_01: Because I think a lot of the time mental health is is almost people think they it's linked to like something's wrong, you know.
• 57:54
  SPEAKER_01: But there are a lot of cases where everything's okay in someone's life, you know, but they're just struggling, they're really struggling.
• 58:01
  SPEAKER_01: So the yellow walls reflect some happiness, but it's almost too much, and it's kind of closing in and kind of suffocating the protagonists in the shot.
• 58:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so yeah, quite a quite a conceptual piece, but um, yeah, a really I think a really important part of mental health awareness.
• 58:24
  David McClelland: Yeah, it's good work that you do in that regard, Nikki, and I think it helps us all to reflect, reflect on ourselves, reflect on those around us, to to to empathize as well.
• 58:35
  David McClelland: Um, and uh going back to the good old Bob Hoskins from 30 plus years ago, it's good to talk.
• 58:42
  David McClelland: And I think that the work that that you've made, it it invites conversations and conversations with ourselves and conversations with our what with our families and those around us as well.
• 58:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 58:53
  SPEAKER_01: I mean there's there's there's too many male suicides.
• 58:57
  SPEAKER_01: It's yeah, it's okay to not be okay, you know.
• 58:59
  SPEAKER_01: And if if if you're not feeling okay, I want to kind of Yeah, reflect the light that talk, you know, things things ain't always what they seem.
• 59:09
  David McClelland: On to maybe brighter work, I I don't know.
• 59:12
  David McClelland: Um certainly away from mental health, although there's still trauma in some of the work that you cover, is the is the commercial work that you do, the lot of advertising, a lot of key art for uh film and TV now as well.
• 59:24
  David McClelland: Is is there a certain type of work?
• 59:26
  David McClelland: Has has the project work that you've done led to a certain type of commercial work that you now do for your clients?
• 59:35
  David McClelland: And is is that okay?
• 59:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, no, absolutely.
• 59:37
  SPEAKER_01: It's um the work you create personally definitely is the work that you attracts.
• 59:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I think where my work is, you know, it's it's very cinematic, it's so emotionally packed.
• 59:50
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of these big Ki art campaigns need to reflect what goes on in that show or that film in a moment.
• 59:58
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, I tend to get some fantastic kind of briefs come in where they want to pull that that moment out of the talent.
• 1:00:06
  David McClelland: It's a very happy-looking Santa Claus uh for that Burger King advert.
• 1:00:12
  SPEAKER_01: He's the most hunkiest Santa Claus ever.
• 1:00:15
  David McClelland: No, I I love the I love the variety of of the work that you do in that regard as well.
• 1:00:20
  David McClelland: Uh I have to ask you, and you probably can't tell me, but in terms of what you are exploring next, what you would like to explore next, how do you see Nikki Hamilton's work and output continuing to evolve?
• 1:00:34
  SPEAKER_01: For me, it's finding stories.
• 1:00:36
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's it's it's continuing to kind of have an opinion and to find work that I really care about and is social commentary.
• 1:00:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um probably stuff that's maybe a bit lighter.
• 1:00:50
  David McClelland: There was another piece of work, uh social commentary, a bit lighter, but obviously social commentary with a bit of an edge there.
• 1:00:57
  David McClelland: Um, obviously, we lost Martin Parr very recently, but there's one image of yours that I wanted to ask about.
• 1:01:04
  David McClelland: I don't know the backstory for it, which is on the seafront.
• 1:01:06
  David McClelland: Looks like Skegness Seafront, as far as I can see, because I can see the wind turbines in the background.
• 1:01:10
  David McClelland: It's got a sort of Martin Parr vibe to it, in as much as everyone's melting, getting burnt in that sun.
• 1:01:18
  David McClelland: What's the story behind that one?
• 1:01:20
  SPEAKER_01: So I wanted to create something that was quite summary and light, but then still had that kind of social commentary underneath it, you know, and it was just about I think at the time it was the hottest July we ever had on record or for a very long time.
• 1:01:37
  SPEAKER_01: And everyone was melting.
• 1:01:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but then we went to the seaside and it was packed, you know, but everyone was burnt, you know, everyone was burnt.
• 1:01:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so for me it it kind of tapped into a little bit of the world around us with kind of global warming and you know, and also kind of the the British spirit to kind of you know still still sit still be a part of it and to kind of bask and celebrate in the in that sun.
• 1:02:04
  David McClelland: Even the ice cream, I and I missed it to begin with.
• 1:02:06
  David McClelland: Uh even the ice cream van is melting into the sand and tarmac.
• 1:02:12
  David McClelland: I love that.
• 1:02:12
  David McClelland: I love that uh touch.
• 1:02:14
  David McClelland: Come on.
• 1:02:14
  SPEAKER_01: I was I was feeling like I wanted to create something a bit lighthearted with a little bit of meaning, but yeah.
• 1:02:20
  David McClelland: You are going to be at the photography and video show in Birmingham.
• 1:02:24
  David McClelland: I think you're gonna be there on the Monday, the 16th.
• 1:02:28
  David McClelland: Can you give us even the slightest flavour of what you'll be sharing with the audience in Birmingham?
• 1:02:34
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so I I will be talking about the quiet voice.
• 1:02:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um and the quiet voice essentially is trying to find your own style and what's the voice inside of you that kind of shapes really the photographer that you are inside.
• 1:02:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I've got some fantastic kind of case studies and stories about my journey into finding um my style and how I how I listen to that voice to keep me on track.
• 1:03:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um so yeah, that's that's that's my subject, and I'm really excited to uh to delve into that.
• 1:03:16
  David McClelland: I look forward to uh being there and and uh being part of that talk, uh listening to what you have to say, because I think we all, even if we think we've found our voice, sometimes we s we struggle to hear it sometimes.
• 1:03:28
  David McClelland: Having confidence to go with with those instincts, to to listen to your own voice.
• 1:03:33
  David McClelland: Sometimes we all need a little bit of help to find that.
• 1:03:36
  SPEAKER_01: And just just to touch on that point, you know, I think one big thing that I do, which is quite unique, is I don't look at other photography work.
• 1:03:44
  David McClelland: Oh, really?
• 1:03:45
  David McClelland: Okay.
• 1:03:46
  SPEAKER_01: No, I don't.
• 1:03:46
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you want to say my I've got a library of books of all the best photography books, and I've got, you know, well, lots of people on Instagram, but you know, I make sure that I own I'm not overly influenced by styles and you know, it's like, you know, imagine trying to write a song and you keep listening to different songs, and you all of a sudden you're writing the song and it feels like something because you've got that melody in the back, yeah.
• 1:04:09
  SPEAKER_01: And I kind of feel like that with photography, you know.
• 1:04:11
  SPEAKER_01: So I watch a lot of films, you know.
• 1:04:13
  SPEAKER_01: I get yeah, I do go to a few galleries and see some great work.
• 1:04:17
  SPEAKER_01: I saw uh uh Owen Olef's exhibition in Amsterdam recently, fantastic.
• 1:04:22
  SPEAKER_01: But just as a day, day-to-day kind of rule, I don't really just slave over Instagram and see what everyone's doing.
• 1:04:29
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, I think that helps you stay true to what you feel is correct.
• 1:04:33
  SPEAKER_01: But I'm giving too much away.
• 1:04:35
  David McClelland: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:04:35
  David McClelland: Well, I I know that people will be very excited to uh to to see your work in Birmingham in a few weeks' time.
• 1:04:41
  David McClelland: But for now, uh Nikki Hamilton, thank you so much for for sharing so much today.
• 1:04:46
  David McClelland: Uh, look forward to seeing you soon.
• 1:04:47
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 1:04:51
  David McClelland: Thanks again to Nikki.
• 1:04:52
  David McClelland: Links to his work and his website in the show notes that accompany this podcast.
• 1:04:56
  David McClelland: And you can see and hear Nikki Hamilton talk about his work in person at the photography and video show at the NEC in Birmingham from Saturday the 14th to Tuesday the 17th of March 2026.
• 1:05:07
  David McClelland: Alongside Nikki are a host, an album, a packed album of incredible creatives making still images and moving pictures, from Friends of This Podcast, Lindsay Adler, Sophie Darlington, and Bill Ward to Charlie Waite, Furry Yavari, Alan Shaler, and many, many more.
• 1:05:25
  David McClelland: Head over to photography show.com for tickets.
• 1:05:28
  David McClelland: And if you are a professional photographer, filmmaker, content creator, then remember you can apply for free entry to the show.
• 1:05:37
  David McClelland: Drop us a line on the socials, on Instagram, at the Photography Show.
• 1:05:41
  David McClelland: I'm at David McClellan TV there.
• 1:05:43
  David McClelland: Find us on Facebook, TikTok too.
• 1:05:46
  David McClelland: That's fun to say.
• 1:05:47
  David McClelland: And you can also send us a good old-fashioned text message.
• 1:05:49
  David McClelland: Just tap on the link in our show notes.
• 1:05:52
  David McClelland: And photography show.com is where you'll find details of this year's Canon Prize draw for your chance to pick up prizes, including a full frame Canon EOS R8, a Pixmar Pro 200S professional photo printer, an EOS R50V, and a selfie QX20 photo printer.
• 1:06:10
  David McClelland: Head over to the website where you'll find details on how to enter, along with all of the full terms and conditions.
• 1:06:16
  David McClelland: But that is all for now.
• 1:06:18
  David McClelland: We will be back next month with some last minute news ahead of the Big Birmingham show.
• 1:06:23
  David McClelland: But for now, from all of us here, bye bye.