Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / SPECIAL WEEKEND CRIME STORIES UPDATE: The Verdict is in! Pregnant Mom, 21, Sliced Open To Get Baby.

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SPECIAL WEEKEND CRIME STORIES UPDATE: The Verdict is in! Pregnant Mom, 21, Sliced Open To Get Baby. · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. A gorgeous young mom to
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: be found murdered, her unborn baby gone. How can that be?
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: The mommy's found murdered, the unborn baby is missing because
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: the baby has been surgically cut from mommy's stomach. It
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: sounds like a sci fi novel, a horror story, but
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  Speaker 1: it's not. I Nancy Grace, this is Crime Stories. Thank
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: you for being with us here at Fox Nation at
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  Speaker 1: series see eleven. In the last hours, a stunning development
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: in the case of the so called Texas womb Raider.
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  Speaker 1: This woman, Hailer Parker, age twenty nine, old enough to
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  Speaker 1: know better, has been convicted in the murder of her
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  Speaker 1: pregnant friend, Reagan Simmons Hancock. Reagan stabbed one hundred times
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  Speaker 1: by her so called friend attempting to steal her unborn baby.
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  Speaker 1: Praxeln sage. Well, this jury got it right, But where
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  Speaker 1: did it all start? Police are investigating after a woman
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  Speaker 1: was found dead in her home after her unborn child
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  Speaker 1: was removed from her womb Friday morning. Police in New Boston,
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  Speaker 1: which is about twenty four miles west of Texarcanna, say
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  Speaker 1: they responded around ten twenty in the morning the woman
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  Speaker 1: was found dead inside the home. Right now, details are limited,
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  Speaker 1: but the New Boston Police Department and Texas Rangers are investigating.
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  Speaker 1: Jess Brooks makes a nine one one call to Texas
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  Speaker 1: Police around ten twenty on a Friday morning in October.
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  Speaker 1: Brooks has just found her daughter, Reagan Simmons Hancock, lying
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  Speaker 1: face down in her bloody living room. According to police,
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  Speaker 1: there is blood throughout the house, on the floor, furniture, walls, appliances,
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  Speaker 1: and other items. Hancock is found with a large cut
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  Speaker 1: across her abdomen. Twenty one year old Hancock is nearly
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  Speaker 1: eight months pregnant with her second child, but the child
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  Speaker 1: is gone. Hancock's three year old daughter, however, has been
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  Speaker 1: left alone with her dying mother. You were just here
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: and our friends at CBS eleven in Dallas Fort Worth,
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: and our friends at crime online dot com who jogged
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: my memory? I forgot that little tidbit. The three year
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  Speaker 1: old daughter is left in the home with dead mommy.
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  Speaker 1: Mommy's tummy cut open and the baby gone. With me
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  Speaker 1: an all star panel to make sense of what we
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  Speaker 1: know right now? First of all, to Jack's Miller, writer
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: with Oxygen dot Com, true crime author one book hell
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  Speaker 1: in the Heartland, murder, meth and a case of two
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  Speaker 1: missing girls. Okay, with that said, Jackson Miller, I'm thinking
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  Speaker 1: about Reagan Simmons Handcock. This takes place in New Boston, Texas.
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  Speaker 1: What can you tell me about New Boston, Texas? Well,
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  Speaker 1: New Boston's kind of like your typical Eastern Texas town.
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  Speaker 1: There's Chili, there's rodeos, there's Jesus, it's it's everything. Whoa, whoa,
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  Speaker 1: whoa wait wait, wait a minute. No offense to anybody
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  Speaker 1: talking or listening, but I for one do not want
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  Speaker 1: to hear Jesus Christ thrown in with a rodeo in
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  Speaker 1: Chili's restaurant. Okay, not kidding. So I just back it up,
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  Speaker 1: Jimmy about New Boston, Texas. So, it's just talent Eastern Texas.
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  Speaker 1: It's about five thousand people, you know. Sorry, Jackson, I'm
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  Speaker 1: actually really not trying to give you a hard time.
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  Speaker 1: It just sounds that way. What do you mean it's
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  Speaker 1: a typical East Texas town. I mean, I've been to Texas,
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  Speaker 1: but I certainly have not been all over Texas. That
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  Speaker 1: would take a long time. What's an typical Eastern Texas town. Well,
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  Speaker 1: I was just facing it on my own experience driving
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  Speaker 1: through eastern Texas. You know, New Boston is a town
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  Speaker 1: with rodeos and chili cookoffs and former markets. It's about
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  Speaker 1: five thousand people. That sounds pretty good to me. Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: I love a good rodeo and I love a good
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  Speaker 1: chili cookoff. That's one of the reasons I belonged to
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  Speaker 1: my little United Methodist churches. We have chili cookoffs all
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  Speaker 1: the time. So what's the population? I mean, Oh, I'm sorry,
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  Speaker 1: you just said about five thousand. So this is a
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  Speaker 1: small town. I'm asking for a reason. I'm not just
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  Speaker 1: giving you a hard time. Cheryl McCollum joining me, forensics expert,
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  Speaker 1: founder of Cold Case Research Institute. You can find her
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  Speaker 1: a cold case crimes dot org. This is not a
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  Speaker 1: cold case, but Cheryl and I go way back. We
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  Speaker 1: have different accounts of how we first met. She claims
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  Speaker 1: it was at three am, not at a bar crime scene.
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: Cheryl McCullum. The reason I'm grilling Jack's miller on where
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  Speaker 1: the incident happened, and we're talking about a young pregnant
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  Speaker 1: mom dead where their stomach sliced open, it's because the
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  Speaker 1: smaller the population, the easier it should be logically speaking,
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  Speaker 1: to find the perp. Explain, well, your suspect pool is
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  Speaker 1: going to be very small. If you've only got five
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  Speaker 1: thousand people and half for women, you're already down to
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  Speaker 1: only twenty five hundred people. And then you've got to
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  Speaker 1: take the age you know, eighty and above and you
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: know maybe a sixteen and below. You're looking at a
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  Speaker 1: very small group of people that might be involved here.
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  Speaker 1: What we're also looking at is where the home was located.
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  Speaker 1: If it was way out in a rural area, or
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  Speaker 1: was it in a neighborhood. Is that neighborhood known for
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  Speaker 1: break ins or anything like that, or was it a
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  Speaker 1: really safe place to be? How active was she in
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  Speaker 1: the community? Church, work, bringing and things of that nature.
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  Speaker 1: So again, your saspeg pool here is going to be
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  Speaker 1: very small. You know what been about that? Yes you can,
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  Speaker 1: but I want to give Chryle I think the last
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  Speaker 1: time she was with us, I cuta might not once,
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  Speaker 1: but twice. I agree with everything you just said, especially
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  Speaker 1: about church and work because let's just say she worked
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: at the mall. Okay, I used to work at the mall.
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  Speaker 1: At Sears, you come in contact with a lot of people,
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  Speaker 1: and a lot of people see you that you don't
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  Speaker 1: realize are seeing you. And another thing about New Boston
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  Speaker 1: that Jackson Miller from Austin dot Com is telling us, Yes,
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  Speaker 1: it's a small town of five thousand, but how do
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  Speaker 1: I know how many people in the metro area come
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  Speaker 1: there to go to o' charlies and Chilies and Applebee's
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  Speaker 1: and the mall or whatever else might be there. I
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  Speaker 1: know in my county seat, Big County making we lived
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  Speaker 1: far far outside of the county seat, which is make
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  Speaker 1: out in rural Bib County, unincorporated Bib County. We had
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  Speaker 1: a thirty minute drive just to get to McDonald's, so
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  Speaker 1: that was for you and far between. But when you
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: take into account there's five thousand people living Indy Boston
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  Speaker 1: all around it, people could be coming in and depending
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  Speaker 1: on where she went to church and where she worked
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  Speaker 1: and her involvement in the community, like Cheryl mccollm was
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  Speaker 1: just saying, many more people could have seen her and
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  Speaker 1: identified her. And then we've gotten the Internet. On top
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  Speaker 1: of that. Jump in dodgr Bethany, let me ensure you, Bethany,
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  Speaker 1: doctor Bethany Marshall joining us renowned psychoanalyst joining us out
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: of LA. You can find her at doctor Bethany Marshall
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: dot com. She's a star in the new Netflix showed
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: Bleeding Empire. Hit me, Hey, Nancy, you already stole my thunder.
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  Speaker 1: I was about to mention the internet. This is a
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  Speaker 1: twenty one year old mom, and so we have to
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  Speaker 1: include in the suspect pull her internet presence. Did she
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  Speaker 1: have Facebook, did she have Instagram? Did she have Twitter?
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  Speaker 1: And what were her relationships outside to that small community.
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  Speaker 1: I know a lot of young people who grow up
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  Speaker 1: in small communities are desperate to have a broader reach.
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  Speaker 1: They want to know about the big cities. They want
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  Speaker 1: to know about um celebrity life. They want to know
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  Speaker 1: who lives in other counties. And so we don't know
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  Speaker 1: was she married, was she single? Um? Was she dating?
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  Speaker 1: Was she dating somebody online? Had she met somebody online?
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  Speaker 1: So these are other factors we would want to look at.
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  Speaker 1: You know, you said that if you work like a
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  Speaker 1: Charlie's or fears that other people might camp come in
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  Speaker 1: and know Charlie's Oh oh, Charlie okay, hey oh, I'm
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  Speaker 1: gonna just put you and Jack's Miller in the same
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  Speaker 1: pot and let you stew. Okay, Jesus and Chilies. Yeah,
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  Speaker 1: I'm on you. I am on you like a cheap
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  Speaker 1: sea girl. The two even though chie in Southern Charlies. Well,
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  Speaker 1: if you have never been to another Charlie's, you're missing
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  Speaker 1: the best yeast rolls were made. So what were you
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  Speaker 1: saying about Oh Charlie's. Well, what I was saying about
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  Speaker 1: Oh Charlie's is that it is a good point that
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  Speaker 1: if you work in an establishment like that, if you
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  Speaker 1: hang out there, people might come in and know you
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  Speaker 1: and recognize you, but you do not remember them. But
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  Speaker 1: sometimes it's the same with the Internet. If you're accepting
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  Speaker 1: every single friend request, if you put your photos and
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  Speaker 1: your videos out there, a lot of people may have
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  Speaker 1: become attached to her where she had no relationship with them. Okay,
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  Speaker 1: you know, doctor Bethany, when you were talking about the Internet,
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  Speaker 1: you mentioned Facebook, you mentioned Instant I think you did.
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  Speaker 1: I know you mentioned Twitter, but you know what you
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  Speaker 1: didn't mention? Be real? Be real, be real. I get
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  Speaker 1: all my Internet knowledge from my fourteen year old twins.
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  Speaker 1: That's the new thing. Be real. Okay. You take a
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  Speaker 1: quick video or picture of yourself and supposedly without any
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  Speaker 1: hair and makeup in real life, and you post it.
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  Speaker 1: You got to get on that. Dr Bethany. You know
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: Del Carson joined me, high profile lawyer out of Jacksonville
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  Speaker 1: and former fed with the FBI, author of a rest
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: proof yourself. You can find him Adella carsonal Law dot com.
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: Dell what we're doing right now, it reminds me so
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  Speaker 1: much of my years as a prosecutor. I like to
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: go up to the Appellate Division where the brain trust was.
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  Speaker 1: I actually got to write appeals for many years as well,
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  Speaker 1: and talk at lunch or that'd always be sitting around
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  Speaker 1: at a big long table and in the DA's office.
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  Speaker 1: We had our own set of you know OCGA Official
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: Code of Georgia initated, the Georgia Supreme Courts, a Southeastern
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  Speaker 1: case law, the Georgia Appellate Court rulings, so they could
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  Speaker 1: do their research sitting right there instead of going to
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  Speaker 1: the law library. I would love going up there and
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  Speaker 1: getting into with them about whatever case I was getting
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: ready when I had time. What we're doing right now,
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: talking about the area, the oh Charlie's, the chilies, where
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  Speaker 1: she worked, where she went to school, the crime rate,
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  Speaker 1: the location. All that matters. It's not just idle chit chat.
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: It's how you work a case if you got any
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: brains anyway. But the most important thing we're all kind
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: of missing, and that is that ed child is missing.
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  Speaker 1: And there's only in my book, there's only one way
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  Speaker 1: this actually happens. And as an agent and as a
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: police officer, I've handled cases just like this, and it
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  Speaker 1: can only mean one thing. Somebody wanted that child. They
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  Speaker 1: didn't necessarily care whether the mother died or not. They
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  Speaker 1: wanted the child. That's the trail you have to follow. Hey,
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  Speaker 1: Dale Carson, everybody jump in. Also in me, Doctor Michelle Dupree, pathologists,
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: medical examiner, and author of Homocide Investigation Field Guide, Everybody
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: jump in. I remember sitting out in It's like a
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  Speaker 1: church in a courtroom. Sometimes you've got all the state's
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  Speaker 1: witnesses and state supporters, victims family supporters on one side,
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: and all the defendant's family and supporters on the other side,
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: and the press somewhere in the mix. Like in a
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  Speaker 1: church at a wedding, the bride side is on one
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: side and the grim's relatives are on the other side.
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: I will never forget in the Scott Peterson trial. When
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: Mark gary Goes blurted something out about maybe Lacy was
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: kidnapped by a woman who wanted to cut up in
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  Speaker 1: her stomach and steal baby Connor. I nearly fell off
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  Speaker 1: my chair. I got I really mean look from the
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  Speaker 1: sheriff too. She was just dying to throw somebody out
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: of the courtroom. I remember thinking how far fetched that was,
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: and actually it's highly statistically unlikely. And of course Connor
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  Speaker 1: was found with Lacy in a twenty four hour cycle
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: when they washed up on the San Francisco Bay shore,
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: so that didn't happen in that case. But Garagos was
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: not half wrong, right. I gotta give the devil's due,
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: because we are seeing this more and more and more
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: where a mother is actually murdered and sliced open to
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  Speaker 1: get the baby. Take a listen to our friends at
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: Katie a l New evidence suggest the victim was not
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: killed the way investigators originally believed. Originally, twenty one year
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: old Raagan Simmons Hancock was believed to have died from
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: massive blood loss due to slashing and cutting. A scalpel
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: was later recovered from her neck during an autopsy. According
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: to an examiner hired by the state. Hancock died from
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: being strangled rather than being cut. Okay, hold on straight
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: out to Jack Smeller, our special guest joining us from
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: Oxygen dot com. She's a true crime author. Jack's you
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: see a mom lying in the floor with her dad covered,
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: the whole area covered in crime scene, her three year
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: old little girl sitting with mommy god knows how long,
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: and her baby having been cut out of her stomach. Zam,
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: we are just learning a scalpel was later recovered from
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: her neck daring an autopsy. I mean, I would have
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: thought the scalpel would be used to cut her tummy open,
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: but her net was sliced as well. It's it's it's
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: really a really horrific her rick to crime. There's there's
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  Speaker 1: blood everywhere, you know. Now they're saying that she was strangled.
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: You know, she had the scalpel in her neck, and
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: you know, just just to put it a little bit
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: in a context, here, we have a killer who's out there.
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: But remember New Boston's very close to three state borders.
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: It's not far from Oklahoma, it's not far from Arkansas,
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: and it's not far from Louisiana. So so that's another
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: thing to consider too, with that whoever did this, it
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: might be out of the seat by now. Okay, Jack's
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: miller just changed the whole equation right there. When you
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: were talking about Eastern Texas before I got off on
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: my chili, your ant wasn't thinking about the significance of
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: what you just said. I mean to me, East Texas.
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: Texas is so big. I didn't realize how close to
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: the border it was to three states. And you know,
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: and no fault of theirs. Police normally don't like the
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: Texas police are going to be looking. They're not going
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: to call Arkansas and Oklahoma go hey, this just happened.
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: It's the cross border communication between law enforcement is not
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: great through no fault of their own. And I can't
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: stress that enough. Cheryl, jump in on that. Nancy. Here's
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: the thing that just leads out at me more than
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: anything else, and that's when law enforcement in their affidavit
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: put there blood on the floor, furniture, walls, and appliances.
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: The word appliance. Nobody's going to keep their toaster in
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: the living room, which is where the victim was found.
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: That means this either started in the kitchen or another room.
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: And went throughout the house. She was stabbed over one
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: hundred times, was cut out of her, A hammer was
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: used to bludge in her head. Any one of these things,
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: the scapel in the neck, the hammer blodge into her head,
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: the hundred stab wounds, the baby being cut from her,
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: any of those things would have killed her. This was
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: not a quick, clean easy I'm going to knock her out,
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: cut the baby, and I'm out. You know what, Cheryl,
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: the way you just described that, really, I'm just thinking, Cheryl,
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: remember and I was pregnant, Remember you seeing that big
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: baby shower in Atlanta, And there at the end, I
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: mean I could barely walk. I didn't realize because I
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: couldn't breathe. I didn't realize what bad shape I was
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: with all those blood clots. And I'm just thinking of
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: this mom, she's eight months pregnant. Describe that same one
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: more time, Sharyl McCollum. Blood was on the floor, furniture, walls,
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: and appliances. So there was blood throughout the house. So
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: that tells you we'd like cast off patterns, maybe chasing
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: her with a weapon that already had blood on it.
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: It paints a very sinister picture because again This was
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: not fast. This was a horrific scene. Crime stories with
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: Nancy Grace. One hundred stab wounds, a scalpel still in
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: the victim's neck removed at autopsy, and now we find
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: out all the stabs are not even the cod cause
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: of death. Doctor Michelle Dupre joining me, Pathologists, medical examiner,
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: author of Homicide Investigation Field Guide. Okay, doctor Dupree, jump
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: in Andancy, this was absolutely overkill. I mean, there's just
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: no other way to explain it. Three different types of
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: manners or causes of death, you know, strangulation, the bludgeoning
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: with the hammer, and a hundred stablins. This is crazy.
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: This was frenetic. This was just absolutely overkill. And you
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: know what else is interesting to you, Doctor Bethanie Marshall, psychoanist,
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: joining us out of LA. Now that I hear doctor
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: Michelle Dupree and Michelle Cheryl McCollum describing the crime scene
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: and Jacks as well from oxygen, There's no way this
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: little girl, the three year old, didn't see problem the
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: whole thing. Mommy running from room to room, screaming. Blood
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: in the back, blood in the kitchen, on the appliance's,
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: blood on furniture, in the floor, Nancy, I had kind
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: of like a fantasy or a day dream or a
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: guess hy thought this this whatever the right word is
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: about how this happened. Whoever killed this poor twenty one
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: year old pregnant mom with little three year old and
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: ran after her from room to room must have been
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: romancing this mother in some way. I don't mean in
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: a sexual romantic way, but I mean must have befriended her.
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: Must have come to the front door with an agenda,
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: sat down, had tea, had coffee, whatever, was chatting with her.
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: And whoever did this was either extraordinarily angry or was
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: an amateur and was just desperate for any way to
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: kill this mom and get access to the fetus. So
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: when you think of chasing her from room to room,
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: the scalpel in the neck over a hundred stab marks
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: was this was a crime that was preplanned from the
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: standpoint that the perpetrator wanted to kill the mother and
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: gain access to the baby. But this person, the perpetrator,
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: did not know how to kill a human being. The
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: perpetrator will tried one thing, they tried another, and then another.
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: This poor pregnant woman is running from room to room
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: and this is a late stage pregnancy, and the perpetrator
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: is just you know, it's thinking about one way to
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: kill her, and when that doesn't work, she thinks about
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: another way, you know, grabbing appliances, throwing her against the wall,
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: stabbing her. Not only is it brutal, but it does
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: a doctor Dupreya is right. The word frenetic, overkill, ill, strategized, amateur.
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: It has a very crazy quality. I think more of
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: a frenzy. That's what I'm thinking about. Guys, killer and
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: just organized. Killers are not organized. They don't plan things.
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: The only thing that happened here is they've gotten away.
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: That's the one thing that's happened. And if you're going
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: to take a child from a mother's womb, you want
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: to keep the mother alive as long as you can
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: to secure the life of the child. And that did
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: not happen here, because, as you point out, anger and
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: hostility was at a maximum level when this event transpired.
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: You know, I gotta jump in. Okay, it does appear
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: amateurs to me because again, this killer left behind weapons,
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: left behind the victim's body, and left behind a witness.
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: A three year old can give a lot of information. Furthermore,
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: whoever did this had to have some pre planning. You're
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: going to show up somewhere with a newborn. There's a backstory,
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: so there was premeditation. You're absolutely right. It's still disorganized,
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: and disorganized means that very thing that they leave evidence
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: that there's no there maybe preptraining actual course that there's disorganization,
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: which is clearly evident from the scene that we hear about. Guys,
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: when you are analyzing any case, you're trying to put
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: all the pieces of the puzzle together. The main piece
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: of the puzzle, it's not necessarily the crime scene, but
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: it's the victim that is the main piece of your puzzle.
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: Take a listen to our friends at k SLA. The
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: twenty one year old was wife to Homer Hancock and
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: mom to three year old Kenley Greece, and she was
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: also expecting another baby, girl, who she named Braxlin Sage.
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: She became a mother early, but after she had Kenley,
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: she went on to get her high school diploma and
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: she was aspiring to eventually get in She was going
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: to start taking classes again in the spring, and she
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: wanted to go into nursing eventually. Never quit smiling, never
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: quit trying and moving on and tackling the next hurdle.
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: The most beautiful person, her spirit, her personality, everything about
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: her was beautiful. A piece of us is gone now.
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: Emily Simmons says, her sister Reagan is the glue that
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: keeps her family together. She always held us close, and
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: she's holding us closer now. For now, the family is
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: leaning on their feet. Just prayers. All we can ask
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: for is prayer. Everywhere I look, I see her, our
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: friends at KSLA speaking to family members in their grief.
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: And you know, doctor Bethany, it's not just grief. It's
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: not just suddenly losing someone so young. And you know,
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: doctor Bethany, you gotta hand it to this, this lady victim, Reagan,
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: she has a baby, and she chooses to keep the baby.
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: She's te mom, and she goes after having the baby,
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: goes back and finishes her high school degree and then
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: is starting nursing classes in the spring. I mean, this
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: woman is amazing, Nancy, She's remarkable. And in terms of
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: the family and the aftermath of this tragedy, you know,
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: one of the definitions of trauma is when the unimaginable
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: happens as much as we're talking about this and trying
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: to make sense of it. It's still the unimaginable. There's
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: no way for this family to process. And as I
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: said so many times on your show, grieving is not
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: just recognizing the loss of the present in the past.
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: It's realizing that you'll never have a future with this person.
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: They'll never see her mother, the unborn baby, raised, her
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: three year old, go on to become a professional nurse,
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: and they'll never see her get married, they'll never see
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: her graduation. So we have to come to terms with
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: the future. And you know, Nancy, this perpetrator not only
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: sold the life of a mother and an unborn baby,
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: think of all the patients that this young mother was
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: going to help as a nurse. She's robbed society of
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: a very important person as well. So the search is on.
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: Police make public the name of the victim. In the
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: community is in shock and a reeling. Women are afraid.
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: No one knows how to make sense of it. Hey
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: does anybody on this panel? Of course, you do remember
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: the Timothy mcveay case. Okay, city bomber. Okay, he murdered
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: volumes of people. Remember it was in the Alfred Murray building.
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: In Oklahoma City, and there was a nursery in that
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: building by the way that he bombed. And Cheryl, do
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: you remember the coin kieting the coincidence of how he
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: was caught? Do you remember how he was caught? Please
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: say nothing. I believe I can never stump you woman,
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: Go ahead, I believe it was a traffic sky. Yes,
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: it was. Tell light, Tell light, tell light, you know,
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: I'll tell. Lights are made up of like five, seven,
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: eight little pieces of red and one of those little
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: pieces was out and they pulled him over and they
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: found all sorts of evidence of the bombing. So the
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: search is on for the killer of this young mom,
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: Reagan Simmons, handcocked just twenty one years old. And then
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: what a coinkie dink a coincidence? Take listen to our
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: friends at crime Online. A Texas State trooper pulls over
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: a car for speeding and inside he finds Taylor Parker
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: giving CPR to a newborn Barker tells the trooper that
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: she has just given birth on the side of the road,
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: but the baby isn't breathing. The trooper says he could
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: an umbilical cord connected to the infant coming out of
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: the woman's pants. Parker and the newborn are rushed by
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: life net ems to McCurtain Memorial Hospital in Idabelle, Oklahoma,
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: where the baby dies. And it's also where Parker, who
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: has seemingly just given birth, refuses to be checked out
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: by doctors. Well, Sanaloni, So what we just heard from
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: our friends at crime Online. Texas State trooper pulls over
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: a vehicle for speeding, finds a woman, twenty nine year
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: old Taylor Parker, giving CPR to an infant. She says
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: she just gave birth on the side of the road,
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: but the baby's not breathing. The trooper could see the
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: umbilical cord still connected to the infant coming out of
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: Parker's pants. Okay, wait, wait, I'm taking all this in
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: rush her to the hospital, where she refuses to be
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: examined by doctors. Jackson Miller joining me, investigative reporter with
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: Oxygen dot Com and true crime author, tell me about
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: the tree for pulling over this woman? What do we know?
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: So this happened in dacalb, Texas, and you know, it's
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: like you said, she was speeding and it was around
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: that same time, like within minutes that the victim's mother
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: had called policing. I just found my daughter. She's dead.
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: There's blood everywhere. And then this is kind of happening simultaneously,
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: and pretty much Taylor has the baby on her lap.
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: She's like, my baby's not breathing. I just gave birth
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: on the side of the road. And she went as
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: far as to put the babies or the mother's placenta
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: down her pants. Okay, walk and stop, repeat very slowly
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: for us, Chili aiding, Oh, Charlie loving bunch, what did
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: you just say about the placenta. So when the state
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: trooper own Taylor with the baby on her lap, she says,
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: I just gave birth. And of course, you know know
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: that Taylor had stuffed the mother's placenta, Reagan placenta down
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: her trousers to keep up with appearances. Okay, you know,
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: believe it or not, Doctor Michel Dupree, A lot of
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: people don't know what a placenta is. Explain, well, the placenta.
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: It's actually what nourishes and feeds the baby. It's attached
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: to the inside of the mother's uterus and of course
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: attached by unbocal cord to the fetus. And that's what
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: delivers blood and everything, all the nourishment. What does it
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: look like. It looks like a disk, probably about twelve
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: or so inches in diameter. It's maybe an incher inch
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: in a half stick, and it's sort of spongy, and
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: it's spongey because it's full of blood. This would be
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: very messy, very very very messy. Where is it inside
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: the womb? So inside the womb, it is inside the uterus,
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: and it is attached usually to the posterior wall of
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: the uterus itself, and the umbilical cord connects to it
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: or through it, it connects to it. So one end
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: of the umbilical cord is connected to the baby, one
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: end of the umbilical cord is connected to the placenta,
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: and the placenta is attached on the other side to
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: the posterior wall of the uterus. Time stories with Nancy
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: Grace and Jack's Miller from a dot com. You're telling
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: me basically, bloody blanket. The placenta is stuffed down Taylor
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: Parker's pants. That's correct. The state trooper noted that the
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: umbilical cord was still in her trowers, and of course
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: that it would still be attached to the placenta, you know,
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: which would be natural if this was her child. You know,
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: you of her baby, you deliver the placenta soon after.
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: But then they took her to the hospital via ambulance,
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: and she refused to have an examination. Doctor Bethany Marshall
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: or psychoanalyst Beverly Hills, don't tune up about insanity, don't
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: because this woman had the cunning to try to trick
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: the state traper by shoving the umbilical cord and the
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: placenta down her own pants. Another woman's child's a millical
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: chord and placenta to pull off her lie stuffed it
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: down her own pants. Nancy, isn't this what we see
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: in all criminals? They don't see in themselves what we
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: see in them. I mean, she's not psychiatrically Hill, she's
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: not mentally ill, but she is really disturbed the fact
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: that she stuff the placenta into her pants. She's driving
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: to the hospital, but she doesn't think that she'll be
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: subjected to an examination. She cuts the baby out of
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: the twenty one year old mother's body with a scalpel
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: I believe, or a nice some sort of instrument, But
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: she doesn't think she's actually harming the baby, not only
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: the physical harm, but the psychological harm of that kind
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: of a traumatic birth. I mean, this is the mother
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: who really I'm sorry I said mother, I mean a
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: potential mother. This is somebody who wants to be a
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: mother so badly that she has this tunneling effect that
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: all she can think of is getting access to the baby.
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: But she's not thinking about any other factor in terms of,
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: you know, the medical aspect, the biological aspects, the survival
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: of the infant. Can you imagine her being a mother
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: in real wife? What a disaster? Actually, she had children,
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: Believe it or not, this woman had children. She knows
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: what it's like to be pregnant. So what more And
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: I'm glad you brought that upthday because this is a
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: whole another layer of subject And to me, it makes
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: her even more evil because she knows what the victim
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: was going through into pregnancy. She had children, So why
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: why this? Why another child? Does she need another child
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: so desperately? Why a baby? Why murder to get a baby? Well,
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: take a listen to our friends at k SLA Attorneys
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: said Parker committed the crimes not because she wanted a baby,
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: but because she did not want to lose her boyfriend,
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: Parker was not able to carry a child because of
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: a hysterectomy. Parker offered them a hundred thousand dollars to
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: be a Sarah Good mother. Parker ordered from the internet
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: a suit which made her look pregnant, feaking that condition
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: for nearly ten months, all the while hunting for a victim. Okay,
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: I got to let that so kill. Let that percolate
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: for a moment. She did not want to lose her boyfriend,
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: did not tell him she had had a hysterect to me,
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: offer friends one hundred thousand dollars to be a surrogant mother,
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: and ordered an internet pregnancy suit, all the while hunting
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: for a victim. Well number one, I guess she's lost
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: her boyfriend now. But Cheryl McCollum, can you imagine a
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: ten month search for just the right pregnant victim, Nancy,
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: I'm going to go back to what I started a
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: little while ago, and that's this premeditation. This person had
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: to lie about being pregnant. So did she have a
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: fake pregnancy test? Did she make fake doctor's appointments? At
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: what extent did she go to again. Doctor Marshall mentioned
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: social media. She took the social media? Did she gain weight?
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: The thing you just played said that she had one
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: of those fake baby momps. Oh, there's so much more.
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: Cheryl Jackson Miller joining me from auction dot Com. Isn't
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: it true? She is accused of faking ultrasounds and even
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: having a gender reveal party. It was not she went
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: to such great length. She had this this big gender
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: reveal everything you just said, and then beyond that, on
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: the day that she went to the hospital with with
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: this baby, she she had her boyfriend. He was supposed
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: to come because she said, oh, I'm going to be
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: induced into labor. So he was going to the hospital
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: thinking that she was going to deliver her baby. And
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: can he add Danny knows she's been pregnant for ten months. Well,
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: you know, I guess, I guess he had believed that.
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: And on top of that, she allegedly was going to
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: she she had planned to do this bomb threat at
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: the hospital, and I guess that was a way to
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: kind of keep up, you know, with with concealing this
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: big secret, white white, white white what bomb threat? Yes,
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: there was a bomb threat that was just release um.
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: She was going to make a bomb threat to keep
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: this this big baby thing a secret allegedly. I mean,
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: when you look at her, I'm looking at her Facebook photo,
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: she just she's gorgeous. She's just okay. The evil that
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: can lurk in the mind of a human is amazing
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: to me. Guys, take a listen. What more we know
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: about her plotting and scheming? Take a listen? Hour cut
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: fourteen our friends from Katie a L. One friend testified
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: about how Parker was obsessed with her pregnancy. This afternoon.
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: The prosecution showed numerous posts on Parker's Facebook page where
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: she claimed to be pregnant and shared a picture and
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: shared pictures of a baby bump and a gender reveal party.
• 36:37
  Speaker 1: The jury also saw evidence in her testimony Shoan Parker
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: was Facebook friends went the victim, Aha, there's a connection.
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: Chela Parker became Facebook friends with the pregnant mom Reagan Simmons,
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: Hancock and more from Katie a l Listen. Data from
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: her devices and internet searches showed she ordered a fake
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: baby belly in a customized fake ultrasound scheme in online
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: and posted dozens of baby belly photos and selfies. She
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: starked ob clinics in East Texas and Shreveport when investigator
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: that she was looking for places where she could find
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: pregnant women and even looked up license plates of patients
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: coming out of clinics as her fake due day grew closer.
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: She also searched online for information on private adoptions and
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: out of hospital birth certificates. In the days before the murder,
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: she watched videos about how to do a C section,
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: examine a newborn, and search for where Reagan Simmons lived
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: and the hours before the murder, cell phone data showed
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: Parker used a spoof cell phone number to contact Reagan Hancock. Okay,
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: deal Carson, high profile lawyer out of Jacksonville and former
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: FBI agent. That's a lot of evidence, Deal Carson. Oh,
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: it is. And it also demonstrates that they were active
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: on the Internet. So that means that the use of
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: cell phone data, the juice of other mechanisms to establish
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: where people were at a certain time is going to
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: be an immense value to the investigation. As you're comment
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: about boys not understanding that ten months, I had a
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: case years ago in eighty seven involving a similar matter
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: where a fellow was both believed that his girlfriend, who
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: actually did what we're talking about here essentially was in
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: fact didn't know. I mean, boys don't calculate like women
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: do when it comes to those months. So you're just
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: you really don't know and you don't understand. So these
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: men typically know nothing about what's really going on, and
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: typically they don't get charged in these kinds of cases.
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: How this guy, I didn't notice that that was a fake?
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: Pregnant seat bumps on Amazon Jump in, Doctor Bethany, Probably
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: these cases, which you said earlier in the show, are
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: statistically rare, often follow a common pattern. You usually have
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: a woman who sometimes she has children, sometimes she doesn't,
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: who needs a love object, wants to hold on to
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: the love of a man. She imagines that as she
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: says she's going to have a baby, she'll have a
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: better chance of securing his love. So what we see
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: is there's a nine or ten or eleven months pattern
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: of getting fakes on a Graham's going on the internet,
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: ordering babys having the gender revealed, party, having baby showers,
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: and all of a sudden, at the ninth months brought row,
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: they have to produce a baby, and they become extremely desperate, aggressive, ruthless,
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: and they'll do anything to procure a baby, even it's
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: like what we're covering today, you know, murdering and attacking
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: a pregnant woman. What a piece of work. Twenty nine
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: and old Taylor Parker doesn't want to tell her boyfriend
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: she had a his direct to me and instead thanks
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: a pregnancy for ten months and nobody but me, and
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: I'm not that good at it. Ten months she faces
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: a pregnancy online and to those closest to her, including
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: her boyfriend. I don't know how he didn't notice she's
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: not pregnant before she murders her best friend, slashing her
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: hip to hip with a scalpel, all to steal her
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: unborn baby girl and present the baby to her boyfriend.
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: Just convicted, now heading toward penalty phase. She is facing
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: the death penalty. She's being convicted of capital murder. The
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: guilty verdict is in, but what about punishment? Nancy Grace
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: Crime Story signing off Goodbye Friend