Latest / Voddie Baucham Sermons / Voddie Baucham - TS&TT Voddie Baucham Cultural Apologetics, the Awokening of the SBC & Joining CBN

Transcript

Voddie Baucham - TS&TT Voddie Baucham Cultural Apologetics, the Awokening of the SBC & Joining CBN · Voddie Baucham Sermons

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Sword in the Trowel, a podcast of
• 0:02
  Speaker 1: Founders Ministries. Founders exists for the recovery of the gospel
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: and the reformation of local churches. And I am Tom Askell.
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: I'm here today with my good friend, Vody Bauckham, who
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: has come all the way from Lusaka, Zambia. Bodie, welcome
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: to The Story of the Trial.
• 0:17
  Speaker 2: Thank you. It's good to be here. It's always good
• 0:18
  Speaker 2: to be here.
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: It's been a while since you've been in the studio.
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: We've had you on the Skype before, but multiple times,
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: but it's good to see you, man.
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's good to see you.
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: So how's your health? How are you doing? I'm doing great.
• 0:29
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm doing great, feeling good. Everything is basically back
• 0:32
  Speaker 3: to normal. I'm doing everything that I was doing before.
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: Wonderful.
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: So yeah, I'm good.
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: Well, good. It's great to see you and you are
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: looking good. And it's good to see your book here. Man,
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: every time I check, the more records. It seems like
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: it's hitting in terms of sales.
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: Uh, so it's, it's just.
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: Going really well. People are purchasing the book and being
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: helped by the book.
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it is.
• 0:52
  Speaker 3: And we're, we're encouraged by that, you know, um, in,
• 0:56
  Speaker 3: in spite of it being very difficult to find many places. Um,
• 1:01
  Speaker 3: so just grateful to the Lord for the way that, uh,
• 1:04
  Speaker 3: he's blessing it and using it and, um, blessing to
• 1:08
  Speaker 3: be able to talk to people who are being encouraged
• 1:10
  Speaker 3: by it. And, uh, so yeah, we're, we're, Very pleased.
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: Well, man, I'm grateful you wrote it and grateful that
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: it's out. We do sell it here at Founders. You
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: can get it at founders.org. We have it at a
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: pretty deep discount already, but we're going to discount it
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: even more. So for the next two weeks after this
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: show drops, and why don't we just put that, say,
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: to the end of February. So at the end of
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: February 2022, you can purchase this book for $ 15. It
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: retails for about $ 25 or so. So just get it.
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: through founders.org and we'll ship it to you at that
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: deep discount. Also, um, we probably ought to give away what,
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: maybe three or four copies of a signed copy. You,
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: you would not sign in a few copies of these
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: before you leave, would you?
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: So we're going to make you a deal. If you
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: will share this podcast and tag founders ministries on social media,
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: as you share it, then we will put you into
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: a drawing where you can actually get a signed copy
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: of of fault lines by Dr. Baucom. So, uh, don't
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: forget to like this, share this and tag us in
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: it as you share it. And we will put you
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: in a drawing for an autograph copy of fault lines.
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: And that's a pretty good deal.
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: I'm going to have to do that myself. If I
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: can swing one away from you. So tell me, uh,
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: tell me what's been going on with you health wise.
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: Everybody's praying. And it's always, every time I talk to people,
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: they said, man, how's Bodie's health doing? Give us just
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: a brief update on that.
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
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  Speaker 3: Um, It's been a while since I've had to go
• 2:42
  Speaker 3: for another follow-up. But, you know, right now things have
• 2:45
  Speaker 3: gone so well that my follow-ups have even been spaced
• 2:48
  Speaker 3: out even more. As you know, before coming here for
• 2:52
  Speaker 3: this trip, I was in the COVID penalty box for
• 2:56
  Speaker 3: a while.
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: But we all had that.
• 2:59
  Speaker 3: Just about everybody that we know has had a recent
• 3:04
  Speaker 3: bout but recovered from that.
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: Good.
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: Good.
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: So health-wise, you're doing good and got a full schedule.
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: Tell us about ACU, African Christian University. How's that progressing?
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: ACU is going very well.
• 3:18
  Speaker 3: In fact, we have a pretty big announcement coming up
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  Speaker 3: about a new faculty member that we've brought on, which
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  Speaker 3: was just a real blessing for us. Andrew Daniel is
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  Speaker 3: coming to teach Old Testament and Hebrew. Wow. Semitic languages
• 3:37
  Speaker 3: and linguistics and things of that nature. And, I mean,
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  Speaker 3: he's just the kind of guy that we could only
• 3:46
  Speaker 3: have dreamed of having, and the Lord just brought him
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  Speaker 3: to us. So we're grateful as our team is expanding
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  Speaker 3: and as our impact is expanding. And, you know, we're
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  Speaker 3: looking forward to adding a couple more degrees on the
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  Speaker 3: graduate level, one in institutional chaplaincy and another one in
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  Speaker 3: linguistics for Bible translation, which we're really looking forward to Dr.
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  Speaker 3: Daniel helping us get up off the ground. So it's
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  Speaker 3: exciting times, man.
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: Man, that's great. That is great. So tell me, you
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  Speaker 1: graduated your first class, was it a year ago, your
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: first graduate?
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: Yes.
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  Speaker 1: Went to Houston Baptist to do post-grad work, right?
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: Yes, yes, yes. Good.
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: And so where are you class-wise? What is your next
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: class looking like?
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  Speaker 3: Well, I mean, it's looking good. There'll be a A
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  Speaker 3: much bigger group, you know, much bigger than the one
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  Speaker 3: who graduated last time. But there should be several graduating
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  Speaker 3: this year. And most of those will be in agriculture.
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  Speaker 3: You know, our first graduate was a theology graduate with
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  Speaker 3: a business minor. And now most of this next wave
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  Speaker 3: is agricultural science graduates, which is our biggest program at
• 5:00
  Speaker 3: this point. which is a really important program for us.
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  Speaker 3: The three main industries in Zambia are mining, tourism, and agriculture.
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  Speaker 3: So we're very excited about having ag graduates with about
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  Speaker 3: 24 hours of Bible and theology under their belt going
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  Speaker 3: out there impacting the world of agriculture with a biblical worldview. Yeah,
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  Speaker 3: it really is exciting.
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  Speaker 1: You know, some people may not be very familiar with
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: African Christian universities. So give us the elevator speech of
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: what are you doing? What are you trying to do there?
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  Speaker 3: You know, it's a classical Christian liberal arts, biblical worldview
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  Speaker 3: university with a strong commitment to a student labor program.
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  Speaker 3: So we tell people it's like early Harvard meets Tuskegee Institute.
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  Speaker 3: We are offering degrees in agriculture, business education, theology, We're
• 5:59
  Speaker 3: looking to add fine arts as well as chemistry, biology,
• 6:03
  Speaker 3: and to move in that direction. But really, we're looking
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  Speaker 3: to be a first-rate academic institution and research institution in
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  Speaker 3: sub-Saharan Africa and to have the kind of impact that
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  Speaker 3: few can really hope for. I mean, we're in a
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  Speaker 3: country the size of Texas with about half the population
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  Speaker 3: of Texas, and there's just tremendous opportunity for influence and
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  Speaker 3: impact through the kind of education that we're offering.
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  Speaker 1: Wow, that's amazing. That's a great vision to be a
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  Speaker 1: part of and see you at the ground floor of it.
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  Speaker 1: It's really exciting.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, we started, we went there at the launch of it,
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  Speaker 3: started by the Reformed Baptist Churches of Zambia, and we've
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  Speaker 3: been there for About six and a half years now,
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  Speaker 3: believe it or not. Wow. And the Lord's really been
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  Speaker 3: kind to us.
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  Speaker 1: Well, our church, we love ACU. We help support that.
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  Speaker 1: Tell folks how they can be involved in investing in
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: this kind of vision. What can people do to help
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: with this?
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  Speaker 2: You know, we need investment in this vision.
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  Speaker 3: We've recently bought and finished paying for 89 acres of
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  Speaker 3: land and are ready to begin building our infrastructure and
• 7:26
  Speaker 3: building our campus. So we need significant influx of cash
• 7:34
  Speaker 3: to be able to build a first-rate college campus. We
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  Speaker 3: want to build a world-class university campus. And so, yeah,
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  Speaker 3: we're in much need of people with that kind of
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  Speaker 3: vision and those kind of resources to come alongside us
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  Speaker 3: and to partner with us to help us build a
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  Speaker 3: first-rate campus for a first-rate institution.
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  Speaker 1: So if somebody wanted to do that, what would be
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  Speaker 1: the best way to make contact and investigate it?
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  Speaker 3: To go to acu-usa.com. That's our American website. And to
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  Speaker 3: get in contact with us through there and get in
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  Speaker 3: contact with our American board if they're here or get
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  Speaker 3: in contact with us there in Lusaka, acu.com. dash Zambia.com
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  Speaker 3: if you're on that side. But yeah, either of those
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  Speaker 3: websites would be good places for them to reach out
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  Speaker 3: to us to find out what's happening and to find
• 8:32
  Speaker 3: out how they can be involved. Good. Or contact you
• 8:36
  Speaker 3: if they have really big checks. They can contact you
• 8:40
  Speaker 3: on our behalf.
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: That's right. Yeah, there you go. You're here teaching. You
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  Speaker 1: just finished up teaching for the Institute of Public Theology
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  Speaker 1: on Cultural Apologetics. And the students were just fascinated and
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  Speaker 1: overjoyed with the time that you spent with them. Due
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: to travel difficulties, you weren't able to be here for
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: the first couple of days. But just to see how
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: God works, I mean, Mark Coppinger agreed to clear his
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: schedule and come in and kind of lay the foundation.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's kind of good news, bad news, right? The
• 9:09
  Speaker 3: good news is we got somebody to step in for you.
• 9:12
  Speaker 3: The bad news is you have to follow Coppinger. So
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  Speaker 3: thanks for that.
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: No, no, man. I'm trying to think of a good analogy.
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: How do you describe what God just did? And it's
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: like Aaron Rodgers, the NFL quarterback, says, OK, I can't
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: be there the first two quarters. I'll come after half.
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: And so Tom Brady says, all right, I'll step in.
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: You got these two massively gifted quarterbacks. So, man, God
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: just hit a double home run with you two guys.
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: And our students were delighted. Again, I had talked to
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: several of them during the class and then several of
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: them after this last lecture. And it was great. Tell
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: me or explain to people why you would be involved
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: in Institute of Public Theology.
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  Speaker 2: I think there's a number of reasons for that.
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  Speaker 3: I think on a very small scale, basic level, I
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  Speaker 3: think it's important for us to partner with those people
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  Speaker 3: in our lives with whom God gives us a special
• 10:11
  Speaker 3: kinship and a special relationship. And I think you and
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  Speaker 3: I have been that in each other's lives.
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: For a while.
• 10:21
  Speaker 3: And I don't think we value friendship enough in the Lord.
• 10:26
  Speaker 3: I don't think we think highly enough of how and
• 10:31
  Speaker 3: why God knits our hearts together with people of like
• 10:35
  Speaker 3: mind and like vision. And so that really was one
• 10:39
  Speaker 3: of the main reasons. And then that like mind and
• 10:43
  Speaker 3: that like vision for an institute of public theology for
• 10:46
  Speaker 3: an institute that sees and values the role of the
• 10:53
  Speaker 3: theologian in public life. For so long, we've seen this
• 10:58
  Speaker 3: sort of mix of secularism and pietism, right? This sacred
• 11:03
  Speaker 3: secular divide that says, you know, that that's over there
• 11:07
  Speaker 3: and we're over here. And then that pietism, which comes
• 11:11
  Speaker 3: alongside it, you know, and when you get those two
• 11:13
  Speaker 3: things together, I think it's a poison pill that keeps
• 11:19
  Speaker 3: us from being involved and engaged in the public square.
• 11:23
  Speaker 3: And I believe that we have biblical precedent for that.
• 11:28
  Speaker 3: I think the Apostle Paul, when you see him in
• 11:31
  Speaker 3: Acts chapter 17, especially when he gets to Athens, right?
• 11:35
  Speaker 3: What's he doing? He's in the synagogue. He's reasoning in
• 11:37
  Speaker 3: the synagogue on Sabbaths. And then he's in the marketplace
• 11:41
  Speaker 3: every day. And I think that's a beautiful picture. of
• 11:44
  Speaker 3: who and what we're called to be and of what
• 11:47
  Speaker 3: the Institute of Public Theology is all about. We're all
• 11:50
  Speaker 3: about that work that we do in the Word, in
• 11:54
  Speaker 3: the church, but we're also about that work that we
• 11:57
  Speaker 3: do in the marketplace.
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, amen. And that's one of the things I love
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: about this initial class of students is they come from
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: all different walks of life, all different parts of the country,
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: and yet, man, they're all serious about wanting to learn
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: these things. And it's been so exciting to me to
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: watch these guys, even in the few classes that we've
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: already had, develop and begin to think more critically and
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: more theologically about some of the hot button issues of
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: the day. So I'm sure that's going to be even
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: more so after your course that's just wrapped up. And
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: we look forward to you teaching again in January 2023.
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: You and I are working out some details about another
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: course that's in your sweet spot. That we want to
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: provide as well. So if you want information on the
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: Institute of Public Theology, you can go to instituteofpublictheology.org and
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: find out everything that you would like to know there.
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: One of the things that we have going on now
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: is due to a donor that's really taken an interest
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: in wanting to get students help here is if a
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: church is willing to pay half of the student's tuition
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: and when they send the student to us, then IOPT
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: will pay the other half of tuition. So a guy
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: can actually come tuition free for the three year course.
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: If the church will invest half of the tuition in
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: his education, we'll do the other half. And man, that's,
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: I mean, that's incredible. It's already very inexpensive comparatively speaking.
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: And we just, we want to do whatever we can.
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: We're trying to, facilitate local pastors as well. We've had
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: a lot of pastors come in, not just locally, but
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: even from California that came to sit in on this class.
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: So we're trying to make it as affordable as possible
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: for pastors who are not looking for a full course
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: of study, but want to take specific classes. So again,
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: check out instituteofpublictheology.org for more information on that.
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  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: Well, Bodie, I got to ask you, man, my tech
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: started blowing up a week or two ago or three
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: weeks ago. People say, you know, Votie's joining the Conservative
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: Baptist Network. What's going on with that? What's happening with that? So,
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: you know, welcome to the Conservative Baptist Network on this
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: side of the state, you know. And I've got a
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: lot of friends in that and appreciate all that they're doing. So, man,
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: you care about the Southern Baptist Convention.
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: I do.
• 14:19
  Speaker 3: And, you know, a lot of people were surprised to
• 14:22
  Speaker 3: find out that I was still part of the SBC.
• 14:26
  Speaker 3: Some people were surprised to find out that I had
• 14:28
  Speaker 3: ever been a part of the SBC and had planted
• 14:31
  Speaker 3: a Southern Baptist church, uh, in, in, in Houston and
• 14:35
  Speaker 3: was sent, uh, to the field by Southern Baptist church. Yeah.
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: Um, so wait a minute, wait a minute.
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: You're a Southern Baptist church planner and a Southern Baptist missionary.
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: Yes. Okay.
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: All right. Yes.
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: I like that.
• 14:46
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So, uh, the, When did you plant Grace Family Baptist?
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: In 2006. 2006. All right.
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: And that church is just doing really well. And I
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: was there a couple of years ago and wonderful to
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: see the way God's preserved that church, used it and
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: guided it in almost miraculous ways with facilities and things
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: like that as well. So praise God for that. So
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: what is your, what's your concern and hope for the SBC?
• 15:13
  Speaker 3: Well, my concern is what we've seen in the last,
• 15:18
  Speaker 3: few years, and it seems like it happened rapidly, right?
• 15:22
  Speaker 3: Where we've seen this theological decline, where we've seen this,
• 15:28
  Speaker 3: you know, first it was just outright acceptance of critical
• 15:33
  Speaker 3: race theory, and then an unwillingness to name and denounce
• 15:40
  Speaker 3: critical race theory and sort of, you know, tap dancing
• 15:43
  Speaker 3: and tiptoeing around that. A number of other issues related
• 15:48
  Speaker 3: to sermons and sermon plagiarism and these kinds of things, which,
• 15:55
  Speaker 3: I mean, just it's really concerning the way that there's
• 16:00
  Speaker 3: been an unwillingness to address those issues and a number
• 16:03
  Speaker 3: of other things that we've seen in the convention, the
• 16:07
  Speaker 3: drift of the ERLC, the drift of the seminaries, this
• 16:13
  Speaker 3: embracing critical theory, critical race theory, liberation theology, and a
• 16:20
  Speaker 3: number of other issues that have been going on. So
• 16:23
  Speaker 3: there are a number of things, a number of things
• 16:25
  Speaker 3: with the International Mission Board.
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: That have been concerning as well.
• 16:31
  Speaker 3: And so it's like all of these things just came
• 16:35
  Speaker 3: to the fore just recently. yes, they've been brewing for
• 16:40
  Speaker 3: a while, right? But all of these things just sort
• 16:44
  Speaker 3: of came up in the midst of this current cultural milieu.
• 16:48
  Speaker 3: And I don't know, it just worries me. You know, again,
• 16:54
  Speaker 3: I know the Southern Baptist Convention is not where our
• 16:56
  Speaker 3: hope is. You know, our hope is in Christ. But
• 17:01
  Speaker 3: I think there are things worth standing up for. There
• 17:04
  Speaker 3: are things worth fighting for. And I believe at least
• 17:07
  Speaker 3: at this time, the SBC is one of those things.
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah.
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: I say pretty regularly, the Southern Baptist Convention is not
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: all that important, but it matters. And what happens to
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: it is going to have impact for good or ill,
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: not just here in North America, but around the world,
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: as you well know, because we export and when things
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: are going good and healthy, we'll praise God for that.
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: But the Southern Baptist Convention is not going to go
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: away tomorrow people say, well, it's already dead and you know,
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: it's dying. Well, yeah, it may die. I mean, God
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: doesn't promise to keep a convention alive, but it's not
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: going to go away tomorrow. It's going to be around
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: for a while. And my fear is it'll become like
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: the PC USA and do devastatingly bad damage over generations.
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: If the Lord is not kind and helping us to
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: see some foundations recovered.
• 18:00
  Speaker 3: Amen. Yeah.
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: And why do you think these things have happened? I mean, I,
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: you know, I've, I've tried to put my mind around
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: and I've come to a point in life where I'm
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: willing to live with unanswered questions.
• 18:10
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: And I got a lot of unanswered questions and I've
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: asked some people that I still hadn't got answers, but
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: what's your assessment of, you know, how did this, how
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: did this happen the way that it has?
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 18:21
  Speaker 3: You know, Tom has been very interesting for me because
• 18:24
  Speaker 3: I've had my head down, you know, on the other
• 18:28
  Speaker 3: side of the world. And, you know, I come back
• 18:30
  Speaker 3: from time to time. So, uh, in that way, it's
• 18:34
  Speaker 3: kind of like when you don't see a child for
• 18:37
  Speaker 3: a while and it seems like they just grow like weeds,
• 18:40
  Speaker 3: you know, cause you're not there looking at them every day.
• 18:42
  Speaker 3: And I think for me, it's been that kind of
• 18:45
  Speaker 3: experience where, you know, I'm plugging away and, and involved
• 18:50
  Speaker 3: in the work that the Lord has called me to
• 18:52
  Speaker 3: be involved with. So I'm not looking every day at
• 18:55
  Speaker 3: what's happening, but, but then I'll come back and I go, wait, what?
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: You know?
• 19:00
  Speaker 3: Um, and, six years of that, um, has, has really
• 19:06
  Speaker 3: just left me reeling and, and wondering, you know, I mean,
• 19:11
  Speaker 3: I have some ideas, but I, I, I don't know.
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah. No, I don't know.
• 19:16
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: It's interesting listening to you describe it that way, because
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: for me, you know, I'm here, I'm living in it and, uh,
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: I'm praising God for all the good things that have
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: happened in the SBC through the conservative resurgence and, you know,
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: seeing good people in positions of leadership and, commending people
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: when they got in their certain positions. I told Russ Moore,
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: I think God built you to be the head of
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: the ORC when he was elected there. And then it
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: wasn't by what's happened. It was kind of moving along,
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: moving along. And I'm thinking, I hear something. It doesn't
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: sound right, but you know, can't be bad. Can't be bad.
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: These are good people. And I started making some phone
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: calls and asking some questions. And the answers weren't quite satisfying.
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: But I'm thinking, all right, they know better than I do.
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: And finally, what I had to do is I had
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: to put a bag over everybody's face in the SBC.
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: I'm not going to look at who you are. I'm
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: not going to look at your name. I'm going to
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: look at what you're saying, what's going on under your leadership,
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: what you're doing, what you're not doing. And when I
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: evaluated things like that and then pulled the bags up,
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: I thought, whoa.
• 20:16
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: Whoa.
• 20:17
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: And it was sad to me, and it still is
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: sad to me, and I don't wish ill on any
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: one person at all. These people are still folks that
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: I want to esteem and respect, but I just think
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: we need new leadership. I think our leadership has failed us,
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: and it's grievous to me. So like you, I think
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: the SBC is worth taking a stand for, and we'll
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: see what God does. If the SBC dies, the kingdom
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: of God is going to go on.
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: Amen.
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: Just like if America dies, the kingdom of God is
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: going to go on. So I'm not putting all my
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: eggs in that basket or all my hopes. We've got
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: to do this or else the kingdom is going to fail.
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: That's not going to happen. But we have a stewardship.
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: We have a stewardship. And so as a matter of stewardship,
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: I want to try to do what I can. And so, uh, man,
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: welcome to the party.
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Thanks. I think.
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: That's right. Well, you've been in it before, you know,
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: you know, you know how the game's played. You've had
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: some elbows thrown your way. Uh, so, uh, it's good
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: to have your voice in this mix again. So what's
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: next for you? Well, I'm, uh, Working on another book.
• 21:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 21:33
  Speaker 3: Which every time I do that, I'm just going, what
• 21:37
  Speaker 3: did I just sign up for? But I'm excited about that.
• 21:41
  Speaker 3: I'm excited to sort of continue in the fight that way.
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah.
• 21:45
  Speaker 3: And, you know, just continuing to plug away, like I said,
• 21:49
  Speaker 3: at what we're doing at ACU. Continuing to come back
• 21:52
  Speaker 3: here three, four times a year. and try to be
• 21:57
  Speaker 3: as effective as I can and bear as much fruit
• 22:01
  Speaker 3: as I can in those, you know, brief seasons of
• 22:05
  Speaker 3: coming over here. But, you know, I've got three teenage
• 22:10
  Speaker 3: sons at home. I'm about to be four teenage sons
• 22:12
  Speaker 3: at home. So, you know, a lot of my attention
• 22:15
  Speaker 3: and focus now is on that, you know. I mean,
• 22:20
  Speaker 3: that's a significant calling and a significant task. And so
• 22:26
  Speaker 3: I'm in a season right now where I'm trying to
• 22:29
  Speaker 3: make sure that I'm faithful and exercising stewardship in all
• 22:36
  Speaker 3: of those areas. So that's what's ahead for me.
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: Amen.
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: Well, that's more than a plightful and You and I
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: have talked a little bit about this research you're doing,
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: and I hope you'll give yourself more than six weeks
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: to write this book.
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, eight weeks.
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: Eight weeks, yeah.
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: No, that's never again.
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: I remember the text.
• 23:02
  Speaker 3: Eight weeks, and then for three of those weeks, having
• 23:08
  Speaker 3: my wife, Oh, that's right. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, I
• 23:11
  Speaker 3: had a hardship during that time.
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: So homeschooling and– Oh, man.
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: It was the craziest thing in the world. Look at
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: what God did there.
• 23:20
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: Well, I'm looking forward to the things you're researching and
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: seeing that come to light. Just the brief conversation we had,
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: I think maybe this morning or whenever it was, it's
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: eye-opening to me about things you've discovered already. And I'm
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: sure you're going to discover more connections. Yes. We'll look
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: forward to that at the right time. You can announce that. But, Bodie,
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: thanks so much for joining us on the Sword in
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: the Trial.
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, man. Always a pleasure.
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: It's always good to see you. Thank God for you
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: and your family. And carry our love back to Bridget
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: when you see her and the rest of your crew here.
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: So thank you for joining the Sword in the Trial today.
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: Don't forget to subscribe and like and share this episode
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: and tag Founders Ministries when you do. And we will
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: put you in a drawing for a free autographed copy.
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: of Fault Lines. And if you want a discounted copy
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: of Fault Lines, you can purchase that for $ 15 till
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: the end of February. So thanks again for joining us.