Latest / Overthinking Games / Ep 66: Clair Obscur: Expedition 33 (with @ranran.words)

Transcript

Ep 66: Clair Obscur: Expedition 33 (with @ranran.words) · Overthinking Games

• 0:02
  SPEAKER_00: I want to talk about uh being addicted to debating on TikTok and how unhealthy that is.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_00: So I think it's like it's both.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_00: I think like arguing about things when you are unsure of things yourself, I think is a really natural and healthy way to do it.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_00: The problem is that like things like TikTok engagement kind of rewards just like the worst version of that.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_00: And so, but then you get addicted as someone who's like, oh, I want to talk about whether free will exists and like how I think like first principle connects to these things.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_00: And then you end up like in a really bad place mentally.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_00: So, anyways, that is something that I have been struggling with over the last like three weeks, maybe.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_02: Um a cold open only relatable to Dempsey.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_02: I think you just really like the drama.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_00: I think I think that's a big part of it.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think I think that's a big part of it.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_00: Anyways, um, okay, so uh so that's that's that's our cold open.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um uh hi, this is Dempsey.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_00: Uh welcome to Overthinking Games, a podcast about what video games can teach us.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_00: Today's a very special episode.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um we have two guests.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um Ran, do you want to introduce yourself first and kind of tell people about yourself?
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, um my name is Ran.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_04: I go by ranran.words on TikTok and Instagram.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_04: I started this club on Discord for called Pixels and Pros.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_04: We're basically a gaming book club on Discord where we analyze narrative-driven games through a literary lens.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and it and so every month you kind of the community picks a new book to talk about.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_00: So what's this month's uh a new game?
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, a new game.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_00: So what's what's this month's game?
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_04: This month we will be playing uh Final Fantasy VII.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_04: And I'm purposely not going to tell you which one right now because I'm I am very scared of the opinions.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_04: But I would like I would like people to be able to choose their own adventure still.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and I I think that'll be okay.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_01: How many Final Fantasy VIIs are there?
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_00: There's a remake, there's the original and the remake.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_02: Oh.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_02: There's the remake and then the remake part two.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_00: There's a lot.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um so yeah.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_00: So uh all of Rand's information will be in the Discord.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_00: If you like this podcast, I think you would like that Discord.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um and then we have Brett.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_00: Brett has been here before.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_00: Brett, you want to say hi?
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_00: Hi, I'm Brett.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_02: So okay.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_02: So I sometimes run a podcast called Lord to Death, where I talk about video game lore as if it's kind of real history.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_02: Um it's it's it's very good.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_00: It's very, it's very well researched.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um if uh there's a lot of properties that you would like.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_00: I think Seth was in, was a guest on the Elden Ring episode, correct?
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, was in a two-parter on Elden Ring.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_00: We talked a lot about Elden Ring.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_00: Specifically the DLC.
• 2:58
  unknown: Right?
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_00: Shadow of the Erd Tree, the the DLC.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_01: There was a lot to talk about, to be fair.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_00: So um, and then Seth, do you want to say hi too?
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_01: Hi.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I'm Seth.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_01: I don't have any special qualities.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um, Seth is here usually.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I am usually here.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_01: Uh it was the first day of school.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_01: That was cool.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_00: That's cool.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um, Seth already hates his students.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_00: So today uh is the Expedition 33 episode um that we have been trying to have.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_00: We can talk full spoilers.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um so if you have not played Expedition 33, you are welcome to listen to um the what we've been playing this week, which we'll do.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_00: But I really encourage you if you have not listened, or if you have not already played Expedition 33, please do not listen to uh because we're gonna kind of spoil things.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_00: Immediately, and it's really hard to talk about what this game is saying um because there's layers of spoilers, which I think is one of the really fun elements of this game, is like there's like layers of plot twists.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um but we're gonna start with what we've been playing this week.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna go first.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um I have been playing.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_00: So I've been playing some um some porn games.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_00: Uh getting ready for Okay.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_00: Hold on.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_00: No, we're getting ready for episode 69, which is gonna be about video games and sex and relationships, because obviously a lot of games uh have sex and relationships.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_00: And so I wanted to play uh some some games that were just like made for sex, and so I've played uh Honey Pop, which is like a match three game.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um and it's it's uh a really like it's not as good as other match three games.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_00: Like I think Grindstone is a better game, um, is a better match three game, and I think Candy Crush is as well.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um but I I have a I have a lot more to say about that, I guess, did during that episode.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um I've been playing, and Katie's not here to talk about it, but I've been playing Hellblade, Senua Saga, and that game is um unbelievably beautiful.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_00: Like it is wildly that game is like having a stroke and sleep paralysis constantly at the same time.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_00: That's what that game feels like.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_00: I've never been impacted sensorally so much by a game before.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_00: So if you've if you haven't played Healthblade, um you are you play as a ancient Viking Norse woman who has schizophrenia before we had any idea of what mental health things were.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_00: And so she's having these hallucinations constantly, and like audio is a big audio design is incredible, like nothing I've ever experienced before.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um but also like just like what's on screen.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_00: There's no UI, which I think is very beautiful.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_00: So like there's no UI.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_00: The combat is some of the worst, most clunking combat I've ever played in the game.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_00: But I think it works.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_00: It feels you feel sluggish and like you can't do exactly what you want to do, and like how you get away from your from the enemies feels like you're in a dream trying to get away from people.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_00: So I I like that.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um but like when she has these visions, um, they just do such a good job of using, I would say elements that they borrow from filmmaking, um, bringing them into to Hellblade and and making things feel really surreal and uncomfortable.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_00: I cannot play for more than an hour at a time because of how much of a toll that game takes on on playing it.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um I played the game.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_02: This is a really cinematic game, though.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_02: It is really beautiful.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes, it's it's crazy beautiful.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um I played Sword of the Sea, um, which is made by Giant Squid, who is who Giant Squid, the lead of Giant Squid was the art director on Journey and Flower at that game company.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um and then they made the Pathless, Abzu, and now Sword of the Sea.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_00: And Sword of the Sea takes a lot of inspiration from Journey.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_00: Again, it's made by the same art director as Journey.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um it's not as good as Journey.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_00: It's imagine if Journey was Tony Hawk.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_00: That's Sword of the Sea.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_00: So you ride, you ride a big sword as if it is a skateboard.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_00: Like that is literally that that is the conceit of the game, and that you like the the desert, the everything moves, the floor is always constantly in motion, constantly in motion.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_00: So like the sand dunes will kind of rise and fall like wave crests and things like that.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um I think the sound design is distractingly minimalistic, as in like something big will happen, but there's not sound.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_00: I just feel like it's not it's not as good as Journey.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um but if you like Tony Hawk and skateboarding games, this is one of like the most cool skateboarding games, I guess.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_02: Um, that's the wild thing I've heard this week.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_00: It's yeah, it's if you if you have PlayStation Plus, it's free.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um so so there's that.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_00: And then I've been playing Date Everything, because again, episode 69, an episode I'm very excited for.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_00: We're gonna talk about sex and relationships and video games.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_00: And Date Everything is a game where you have glasses that bring inanimate objects in your house to life.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_00: So like you can date your toaster.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_00: And um, there's a hundred different ones.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_00: The voice actors themselves play a really like so like when you go to your inventory to see all of your dateable people, like the voice actors are credited right there in game, and like their personalities are kind of a big part of uh what makes the game good.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um it's so far, it's not like like it's uh it's not like Doki Doki Literature Club, where it's like you know, like a subversion of these genre things, or like it's it's good because it's saying something deep or whatever.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_00: So far, it's just like actually just genuinely a dating simulator that's really fun and uh and very silly.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_00: And I think the writing is very special.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_00: I think uh the way you interact with things is fun and satisfying.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_00: But I do think you have to kind of go in liking romantic drama.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_00: Like Doki Doki Literature Club, for example, or something like that.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_00: You don't have to like the romantic genre in order to get something out of that.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_00: For date everything, I do think you have to kind of enjoy the concept of dating simulators in order to really get anything out of this game.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_00: But if you even have a passing interest in dating simulators, I think this is kind of like the best version of one.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_00: So date everything.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_00: The art style is really fun.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_00: I think uh the the music is really fantastic, everything about it is uh is really enjoyable.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_00: And it has a lot to say about like who we're attracted to, why we're attracted to people, what dating means, why dating is complicated.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um it would be a really good double feature with uh Materialist, which is um a sling song movie that came out uh where Dakota Johnson has to choose between Pedro Pascal and Chris Evans.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_00: Anyways, the if you like chick flicks, this is an incredible game for you.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_00: Anyways, okay, so I've been talking forever.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_00: Rand, what have you been playing uh this week?
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_04: The materialist is not a chick-flick.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_04: I agree.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to a hot take.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_04: I walk I agree with that, yes.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_04: It is a very realistic horror film for women.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_04: I just want to put that out there.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_04: Um I what am I playing this week?
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_04: I since we finished Expedition 33, and I I do feel like I'm kind of mad at the game right now because I finished the Clea fight and I have a lot of thoughts.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_04: Um, but I really miss blacksmithing and collecting herbs and potions, making potions in KCD2.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_04: So I tried to pick that one back up yesterday, but I forgot that I dropped it during the like big fight at the end.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_04: And it like there's like a part where you I don't know if you guys played it before.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_00: What is KCD2?
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, Kingdom Come Deliverance 2.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I've only played the first one.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, yeah, you're gonna be like it's so good, but it's really long.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_04: Uh but I stopped playing it during like this really difficult area where you have to like stealth kill a bunch of people, and I think I fucked up the the um the quest before instead of three people, I'm killing like 18.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_04: And I just can't remember how to pull out my sword, and I just I think I might have to like anyway.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_04: I don't I think I think it's I'm I'm done with that game.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_04: I think I just wait until Final Fantasy 7.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_00: Do you like the obtus the obtuseness of that game?
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_00: Like, is that something that you really enjoyed?
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_00: I remember trying to learn how to fight in the first one, and like you have to pick the points and it's all obtuse and it feels bad.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_00: Was that your experience?
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_04: It felt bad initially because I also wasn't used to first person games, but I loved it like immensely.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_04: Like it is so fun.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_04: So you should play it.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_04: It's so good.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_04: Just don't do everything the way I did, and I got burnt out.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_00: Brad, what have you been playing this week?
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_02: Um, on the note of uh Kingdom Come Deliverance, I actually only just finished the first one like maybe a couple months ago.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_02: Um, because I also I put it down for like three years, which was a bad idea, and then I picked it up like a quarter of the way to the end.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and it was really hard to pick back up because I was in the middle of like a kind of boss fight and I forgot how to play.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_02: So I had to spend like an hour relearning how to play the game.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_02: Um it was really bad.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_02: But I've been playing mostly Night Rain.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_02: Um I've been kind of grinding that out and grinding out all the like the Everdark bosses week to week.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_02: Um so basically, like in Night Rain, it's kind of just like Elden Ring boss rush mode, um, for people who haven't played it.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_02: And they put out like versions of bosses called Everdark bosses, and they're basically just harder versions of the base game bosses, and I've just been trying to grind out all those because you get special rewards for beating those.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_02: And then I found a game this past weekend, and it's called Stonks 9800.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_02: And it's it is the most insane thing that I've played in a long time.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_02: It's basically it's set up like an Atari game, but it's set in 80s Japan, and you're like a stock broker, basically, so you're like a stock bro, and all you have to do is just like watch stocks, invest in stocks, do all that.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_02: But then it's also like kind of a dating sim, and also has like a dozen mini games in it that you can just like do.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_02: Like it's just like, oh, it's the weekend.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_02: Do you want to go out and do something?
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_02: Do you want to go to the bar?
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_02: Do you want to go play a pachenko game?
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_02: Do you want to go open like a gachapon box?
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_02: Do you wanna like play poker, golf?
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_02: Like, there's all these weird mini-games inside it, and it's the most weirdly addicting thing that I've played, um, maybe ever.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_00: Do do the mini-games impact the main stock mechanic?
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_00: Like if you get really good at the bar, do you get better at stocks or something like that?
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_02: So, like, there's so like there's like the weird like dating sim kind of element where like you get you have to like uh network basically, and you have to like get friendship levels with people to be able to like kind of they'll tell you things about the stock market or like give you insider tips, whatever.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_02: So like going to the bar with people is like really helpful, but then also there's some things that are just like straight gambling.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_02: Like you can go to the racetrack and bet on horses and like or you can play pachinko.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_02: So today I spent about 750 million yen on pachinko balls, and then I made 12 billion yen.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_02: So it's like, you know, if you want to grind it out, it's you know, the mini games are really great.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_02: Most most of them will make you money.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_02: Um but yeah, it's that has been sucking my life away.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_02: Um and I think I need to it is on Steam.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_02: I it's it's in early access currently, so it like kind of just came out a while ago, but I got it uh four days ago, and I already have 17 hours in it.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_02: So I don't know.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_02: What was that called again?
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_02: Stonks 9800.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_02: I definitely it is it's incredible.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like versus everyone else, I've been playing like normal stuff.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_01: Like relatively uh normal stuff.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um I think it was after last episode, Brett recommended to me uh Passant, the the chess roguelike, which I have a little bit of commentary on.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_01: I played it for like an hour and a half.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_02: Uh I said it was janky and it is so janky.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_01: It is 100% janky.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_01: It is literally like a chess roguelike that's sort of Ballatro inspired.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_01: Uh although I I'll relay commentary I saw somebody else say, which is that Ballatro is uh poker inspired, it is not playing poker.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_01: Uh this game is playing chess with roguelike elements.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um and it is not just chess themed, uh, which sounds like there's not much of a difference, except like after you get past like round three, you just have like a full chess board versus your opponent's full chess board.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I'm not good at chess.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_01: So like it doesn't matter if you add roguelike elements to it.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_01: I'm still bad at chess.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_02: But the big thing about that is that like yeah, there are different pieces.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so they have like fancy pieces.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I don't know, you can get like a bishop that can like move like a bishop, except it can also move like a king.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_01: And like it doesn't help the fact that like I'm bad at chess fundamentals.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_00: You still need to be good at chess, that's so funny.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just bad at chess.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_00: Like I because I get with Bilatro, you don't need to be good at poker.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_01: No, you don't really need to know anything about poker to play Bellatro.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_00: Poker to yeah, but to this game, you just need to know how that's so funny.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_01: And you need to be like good at chess.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you will be better at this game, like if you can set up like the multi-turn chess traps and you know like your chess tactics, which like I've done chess puzzles and tactics, I'm just bad at chess, there's no getting around it.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm bad at this game.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_01: So I played for like an hour and a half, and I was like, this ain't working, dog.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_01: I can't do this anymore.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um instead, I was like, I'm hitting up the Steam library and seeing what else I can find.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I downloaded this game called Tower Tactics Liberation.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_01: It's a tower defense roguelike, uh, where each round of like the tower defense, it gives you like a new hand of cards that has like towers you can play and like spells you can play.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_01: Imagine like Slay the Spire, but uh it's a tower defense game.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_01: A plus, I've been enjoying that.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_01: Much better roguelike experience.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_01: I don't have to be good at chess for that.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_00: It's very funny that you can just like tag roguelite onto things and Seth will play them.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_01: If it says roguelite, I will either like play it and be like, yeah, this is a good roguelite experience, or I'll play it and be like, this is not actually a roguelite.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_01: I'm annoyed.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um those are like my two my two spectrums.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_01: I've actually also played a lot this week.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_01: I um I played a little bit of Marvel Rivals for the first time since like February, because some kids from my church wanted to play.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_01: Game still sucks.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_01: Has nothing to do with the fact that I'm like hard stuck bronze.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um I've been playing The Sims with my girlfriend, which is like weirdly addicting in short bursts.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_01: Because she's been playing a lot of Sims and she's not like a gamer.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_01: But I was like, oh, you know what?
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_01: I'll build like a house and and put like a little couple in there.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_01: And I spent like an entire evening just like, oh, like let me build them a nice little house, and oh, I want it to look cool, so like they're gonna have a couple different rooms, and the one of them's a musician, and the other one's like an office worker, and I made them like a little hallway, and I put up like art and everything, and I was like, wow, this is this is fun.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_01: It's like for like a normie game, I guess.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I I get it.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_01: No, no commentary on the Sims.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_01: Again, it's a ton of fun.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I'm talking down.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_00: Self-calling Sims an a normie game is gonna be its own topic episode because I have a lot of feelings about that.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_00: But a game that is neither a normie game or a roguelite, uh, Expedition 33, which is a topic.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_00: So um, I want us to kind of go around and just give initial impressions, like how how much we connect with the game, how important we feel like the game impacted us.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_00: Because I feel like this game has a lot of impact, both like how you see video games and also just how you see stories in general.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so Rand, do you want to start us off with like what what this experience was like and like what how you connect with it or or where it lost you?
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_04: Um how do I feel about Expedition 33?
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_04: It's actually, I think, the first, besides like my brief Persona 5 playthrough, which I have not completed yet, it's the first true turn-based game I think I've played since Pokemon as like a child.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_04: Um I thought it was beautiful.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_04: It was like the story.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_04: I honestly I didn't know what it was about at all.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_04: I just knew that A, there's like a big 33 in the game, and I'm 33 years old and was going through a little bit of an existential spiral when I picked it up.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and thought it would answer all my questions.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_04: It did not.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_04: It gave me all new questions.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_04: Uh the 33, I don't think actually meant anything in the end.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_04: Just that age, right?
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_02: I don't I'm not sure if it just happened to be the number, I guess.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I think the the creator is potentially 33 now.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_04: I'm not sure if that was like planned, but um anyway, I was looking for a little bit more meaning.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_04: But uh the game is packed full of meaning.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_04: So I was very, very into it.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_04: Is this like a spoiler?
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_04: Are we spoiler?
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, full spoilers.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_04: Full spoilers.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_04: I think oh, I don't want to do the first hot take.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_04: I want someone else to do the first hot take to see how far I'll see how far.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_01: Uh the worst take.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_01: Not like worse, but I don't know.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_01: So like I I'll I'll start up by saying I fully enjoyed Expedition 33.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_01: I thought it was like an interesting sort of JRPG take for someone who doesn't play a lot of like traditional JRPGs.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um, whereas I think like a lot of my experience is more casual ones like Pokemon or like um like Paper Mario, right?
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_01: Like I don't I don't have such uh as deep of a understanding of the genre.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_01: But like I just enjoyed it from the sort of like tr traditional RPG, like oh, I get to level up stats in my characters, and then there's fun moves to use.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_01: But like for me, uh the story was good.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I there was nothing that I like personally felt was like super meaningful for me.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um even down to like the end of the game where you have to choose like oh which of these like two character endings that you want.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, I don't know, they both kind of have like good arguments, and I just kind of like picked one.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um interesting.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_01: I I don't know what about it it was.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I maybe it's because I just didn't like super understand where the story was coming from.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think it's like super obfuscated obfuscated, it's not super unclear like what's happening in the game.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I think it plays a lot of its cards like on its sleeve, like you can sort of figure out what's happening.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um, they try and like mask it a little bit.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_01: There's this whole like French thing going on, and like I enjoyed the plot twists, like losing your character, like losing Verso at the end of Act One was I like cool, but I was like, dang, he's dead.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_01: That's wild.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um I was I was impressed that a game could just like oh, like we're offing the main character and just gonna like pitch you a new guy.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, that's cool, I guess.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um I'm I'm blanking on like the later plot twists, but I also later you're blanking on the later plot twists.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_00: The the whole point, the fact that that the whole game was fictional in the world of the game.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, well, yeah.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, like sure, it's making like a lot of things.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_00: Seth played like 10 minutes of Outer Wilds and was like, oh, I'm not looking for meaning in my life, I don't need to play this game.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_00: Nah, I mean Seth's relationship to video.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, let me let me continue defending myself a little bit.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_01: I in the the whole idea that like okay, because you're right, it is a sort of like it's all a dream, whatever, it's all fictional in the painting.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_01: It's like but it's sort of playing around with this like meta idea about like, okay, does it actually matter if everything is fictional, like it the relationships you've made are still important, which again is something that like Dempsey cares a lot about.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_01: But I was but like okay, this is uh this is where I'm getting my hot take.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_01: It's like when we played Detroit Become Human, and I was like, the guy's a robot, he shouldn't get to experience any feelings.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_01: I like I sort of feel the same way about this game.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, they're characters in a painting.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_01: I don't really get they're not real.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_01: Like they're not real people.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_02: I do agree with you that they're not real.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_02: They're not real.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and I think that's what one of the endings is saying, right?
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_01: Like you have to sort of decide if you actually think the does it matter whether or not these people are real or not?
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I was like, I don't think they're real, I don't care.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_01: Like they can go burn, I guess, because they're in a painting or something.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, that was painful.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_00: Brett, what do you what do you what's your how do you feel about this game?
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I mean, like hot take also, I mean, like, okay.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_02: I'll save my I'll bring one hot take in the beginning, and then I'll bring another hot take at the end.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_02: My first hot take is that this this game almost made me like the French.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and then I remembered that the French did, and I don't like them anymore.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_02: But like it's it's it's it's a redeeming factor.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_02: They're getting back there.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_02: Um I'm also like I love turn-based games.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_02: Like those are some of my favorite games.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_02: Like Persona 5 is one of my favorite games.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, just the persona games in general.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and then like Final Fantasy, like OG Final Fantasy games that were turn-based, um, even the ones, you know, even up to the ones that stopped kind of being turn-based, I love those.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_02: So I came into it as someone who loves turn-based games like a lot.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_02: And so I knew I was going to like it, but I wasn't prepared for how emotionally invested I was gonna get in the game.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_02: And that's kind of where it got me.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_02: Because like the gameplay loop for me is very addicting and it's very satisfying to just like, okay, I'm gonna like optimize, optimize, optimize, and then eventually I'm just gonna like one-shot everything.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, I'm gonna try a new build and see this.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I like the experimenting with builds, I like it was just very satisfying for me.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_02: And like, you come across a boss that you can't do initially, some people some people might turn away and do it later.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna spend hours trying to beat that boss, even if I shouldn't.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_02: Um, that's my own personal problem.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_02: And for me, it was just really great.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I loved the narrative.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_02: I thought that the world that was built was really cool.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_02: I liked that there it was like, you know, fictional world versus non-fictional world.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_02: I liked that that was brought in.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_02: And then I guess like the the second hot take is also that I I agree that like the people inside the painting don't ultimately really matter because the story is about the people outside the painting and learning how to grieve properly without being extremely destructive to people around you, um, and just kind of learning to let go of things.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_02: Um that's kind of the message that I got from it.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_02: So my hot take is that the people in the painting don't matter because it's it's all about the people outside the painting who are trying to learn how to deal with everything going on in their life that they've been clearly pushing to the backside with the paintings.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_02: Um but that's yeah.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_01: Rand, you look horrified.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_01: So I think DevC you don't get to talk about.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_00: So I think Ran, do you want to say do you want to say what's on your mind?
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_04: What oh, I want to say that I think you're both wrong.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_02: That's valid.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_02: That's valid.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_04: But I also think that my hot take is like going to catapult us into a different universe.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_04: I think that the the Sandra family is are the true villains here.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_04: Because I think even it is impossible to argue that I regardless if the people in the painting are quote unquote real or not, I think the definition of real for me is that they feel pain and terror and love and all these really true human emotions to the point where that like what was it, the turtle guy got abandoned by Clea for centuries, essentially, in her time, and is just in like emotional agony forever.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_04: Like the cruelty of that.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_04: Um, I don't think they should be allowed to do this.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_04: I think it is unethical what they are doing.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_04: This unchecked power that they have in society.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_04: I just think that is wrong.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_04: And I think that is the wrong wrong take.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_04: I know this is the wrong take, and I've it's like totally not the point of the story, but I just can't get over that this is so unethical of the Desandra family.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_02: So then do you believe that, I guess like meta, do you believe that the writers, like you know, the writers are the ones who kind of like threw the Desond family into chaos?
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_02: Do you think that the writers are the good guys, or do we not know enough about them to know if they are the good guys or not?
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_04: I think we don't know enough about them, but I think like obviously in the real world, the Dassandra family are what, like billionaires, right?
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_04: Like so something is going wrong out there.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_00: So so okay, so this is so I think that I think that the content, in my opinion, this is the this is the layer of meaning.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_00: I I very famously do not talk about what things mean, I talk about what things mean to me.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think that the fact that this was made by people from Ubisoft uh for me gives it a different layer of meaning because Ubisoft is known for kind of uh trying to get you to play their games for as long as possible.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um and doing things like putting cash shops in single-player games.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_00: And so, like with Far Cry and things like that.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think that um that this could be read as kind of a criticism of using the escapisms of video games specifically, um like I because I think I think video games specifically kind of works as the best uh parallel to the painting because of how animated the world is and how you can step inside of the world that you create.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_00: And so, like, regardless of if these beings feel pain or if they don't feel pain, making something, being a creator and making something with the intention of being so like exploitative, I think that is wrong.
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_00: And so I just like how when Ubisoft or um or EA make a game with the intention of being exploitative.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_00: That is wrong.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_00: And so I took it as this statement about using video games, encouraging this kind of like playing for as long as possible our relationship to video games.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_00: I saw it as a criticism of how how I guess how mo like this fear of modern video games only being exploitative.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_00: And so whether the things inside the story can feel pain or not is not the point.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_00: The point is that you are making something specifically to be exploitative.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_00: And so in my in my reading of it, that's what the story was about.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's why I thought it was so beautiful, because the first half was like, hey, there is meaning in this.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_00: And in this art form, there is a way for you to process things that you might not be able to process in the real life.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_00: And then in the second act, it's like, and also there is there are very clear limitations to what this art to what you can accomplish here.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_00: And there's real dangers in taking this world and and trying to force it to do things that it can't do.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_00: So that's so that and I I love that so much.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_00: I love the idea.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_00: I love like uh the fact that it's about itself, the fact that it's hostile towards its audience.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_00: I think um like this game criticizing people who like video games, I think is a very fun thing for a video game to do.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't think you can, I don't think any other art form fits what this game is saying.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_00: Because like a movie, like if you create a movie, you can't step in and talk to the characters that you make.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_00: Whereas if you create a video game, you can do that.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's not a virtual world.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_00: The only place that a place like the painting can exist is video games.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think I think it was a very um like struggling with the responsibility of a creator.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_00: I and yeah, anyway, so yeah, so that that's my that's my hot take.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_00: I do think that it's unethical of what they did.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_00: I think that they but I would say it's unethical for different reasons.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's unethical because they're making something to be exploitative and and for and for no other purpose.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so I I have question on that.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_01: So because my understanding of like the the sort of part of the story is this is like Verso's painting that he at one time.
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_01: At one time, but right, like Verso's not around anymore.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_01: He died in the fire, right?
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_01: That's Yes.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_01: So but like Yeah, he well, because that's the idea, right?
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_01: Is it's like a very literal, like he put his like heart and soul into the painting.
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um but like he doesn't originally create that to be exploitive, right?
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_01: It it seemed to me that like he originally has this as a sort of like why does he originally create his painting?
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I think it's like he hated art, and it was just because his parents wanted him, like basically forced him to create something.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_02: And so he just created nonsense things like SKA and Francois and like the um the gesturals.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_02: He just kind of like made these like nonsense things just to kind of appease his parents, I think.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_02: I might ironically.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_00: No, but but in his version of the painting, people weren't dying at 33 and they didn't have all this anxiety and things like that.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_00: So his version of the painting would have been like the like uh it it it didn't seem to have as much anxiety and pain as when the mom got a hold of it and the dad got a hold of it, and they started to try to pull like this is how this painting is also how I want to uh restore my son back to life.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_00: And at that point, it seems like that's when like the exploitation started.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so what what is this this exploitation?
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_01: What is being exploited here and by who?
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_00: The mom's the mom's attention, the mom's attention is being exploited.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_00: And and I think also uh Mael's attention is being exploited.
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_01: But isn't she the one who like enters into the painting on her own, right?
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_00: She yes, but then she also wants to stay there even if it's unhealthy for her to stay there, which is what the ending.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_00: So Mael wants to stay in the painting regardless of if it's good for anybody.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_02: But specifically wants to stay in the painting with Verso and keep Verso alive via the painting.
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_04: Is basically to not be like disfigured and in pain and you know, live like a better life that is um, which I think is actually probably her priority over the Verso piece.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_04: Because she he didn't want it.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_04: And even if like I know it's like his original intent was different, I viewed that, and I I think my take is wrong, like by the way.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_04: Like I think my take about the uh exploitation of like uh the working class versus like what power these these uh Dassandra family people have is not the right take.
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_04: Um, though I have heard like the Final Fantasy Gods comparison to that, but um I think the little verso without the face, painting alone in that like purgatory land by himself is powering the painting, right?
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_04: Sure, yes.
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_04: And that that he's getting exploited, he's in hell, literally.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, I I agree with that.
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_02: It's literally just a little boy being kept in purgatory because his family can't let him go, because you know, the mother is basically keeping the painting alive, and that's why Renoir went in to try to stop her, and that's why people ended up dying, because he wants to, you know, kill the painting to get his mother out of it because she needs to get out of her grief.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_02: But then, yeah, that's a whole it's it's a big cycle of grief, kind of.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_02: And that's where I got I think it's interesting that you kind of you guys kind of got exploitation out of it, because my entire interpretation of it was just processing grief and different ways to process grief and kind of how to grieve healthily, I guess, by like accepting that things are gone and just letting them go.
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and that's why I think, like, personally for me, Verso's ending is the better ending.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, you can choose, you know, Verso Mael.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_02: They're both, I guess, like, they're both bad endings, right?
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_02: Like, it's there's no happy ending.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but I think that Verso's is more fair because Verso is being kept there basically against his will.
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_02: Like his soul is powering the painting and no one else will just let him die.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_02: Um, everyone else is just so obsessed with keeping the memory of him alive, and that's why I think that his ending is the better one because his ending at least it allows the painting to be destroyed and it allows everyone to accept that he's gone in this tragedy that happened with the family, and they can all healthily move on from that and with accepting that he's died instead of just like clutching onto pearls about it, basically.
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_00: Do you did you feel disappointed by the fact that none of it seemed to be real?
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_00: That like you achieve your goal, you defeat the painteress, and none of like did you get a sense of like none of that mattered, or like it wasn't like cheated out of like because I I think one of the things that I think might make people feel that way is how much of a backseat the rest of the characters take, like Luna and Cecil C L?
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_00: C L.
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_00: How do you say your name?
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_00: C L.
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_00: C L.
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, Luna and C L.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um like they like they really take a back seat when the the end of the third act hits.
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um, did you feel like cheated out of that emotional catharsis or anything like that?
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_02: I felt like it kind of it the understanding that nothing that happened in the painting was real, per se, like whether or not you want to say that they all have their own personal experiences and that makes it real.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_02: Um I felt like it made me care less about everything that was in the painting.
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and it made me care less about the world overall because it felt to me like the painting was just a prison that just like needed to be ended.
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I, you know, do I agree with Renoir's methods?
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_02: No, I don't think that gamaging everyone was, you know, necessarily the right move, but I do agree that the painting needed to be let go of.
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but uh the the the the fact that none of it was real, uh real, quote unquote, did give me a disconnect.
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_02: And it did make me care less about the people who weren't alive outside of the painting.
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_02: So like Ciel and Lune, like I cared less about them once I realized that they weren't, I guess, quote unquote, real.
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_02: And then it's like all that really mattered was Verso, Mael, you know, Renoir, and what's the mother's name?
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_02: Aline.
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and it's like, okay, now they're we need to focus on them and their grief and how they get through this because no matter what, everything in the painting is fabricated.
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_01: I was gonna say, I want to uh tack into that because I sort of have a supporting point to it where it uh I mentioned this before, but it reminds me a lot of when we played Detroit Become Human.
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_01: A game which like I I don't need to totally go into, but it's a game where I really felt like playing these characters who are like androids, I felt a disconnect to the android character because I'm like, he's he's a robot, like at the end of the day.
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um I've also talked before, and Dempsey hates this take, but like I've talked before about Darkest Dungeon.
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um, a game where like I you in order to like really play Darkest Dungeon to the best ability, you have to really realize that these characters are just like pixels on a screen.
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um and you will be better at Darkest Dungeon if you realize that like I have to send my pixels to their death.
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_01: And it it sort of was how I felt about the characters, like once we got to the second act, where I'm like, oh, all of these are all just like characters in a painting.
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_01: In sort of the same way that I might feel about I don't know, this is like a this is a bit of a stretch take, but in the same way that I would feel about sort of like an AI.
• 39:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um where I'm like That's exactly what I mean even if an AI is like acting like a person, at the end of the day, like it's it's still an AI, it's not a person.
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I'll and part of it is different, right?
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like if you're playing a game that's not pulling the same trick, like if I play Elden Ring, which is not a great example, but like the NPCs in Elden Ring, like I'll I care about them a little bit because it's sort of like understood that with completely within the story that they are like real people who are alive in the world.
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_01: And I understand the like I don't know, the hypocrisy of the fact that like, okay, in this game, the the painting is sort of the real world, but for the characters who live in it, but knowing that there's like an outside larger world that has people who are more or less like the real people at play, just makes me be like, oh, these are now just characters in a story.
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_01: In the same way that like my Darkest Dungeon characters are just characters in a game, they they can't feel bad if I like send them to the slaughter.
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_01: Much of the way that, like, sure, like the characters in the game world have like feelings and experiences that that matter sort of within the scope of the game world, but now like we've moved the meta-narrative to like outside the scope of the game world, and I have like other problems I have to deal with than like the emotions of these fictional characters.
• 41:30
  SPEAKER_00: Random.
• 41:31
  SPEAKER_00: That's pretty much where I'm at too.
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_04: I think that is a really sad take.
• 41:37
  SPEAKER_01: Like I think it because it's kind of like mystic, it's a psychotic level take on this.
• 41:43
  SPEAKER_04: I think the whole reason why you know I got into talking about games like this in like Pixels and Pros is because when we think about literature and as a big reader, writer, um, the whole why we love literature and why it crosses different borders is because we all relate to these very human experiences.
• 42:01
  SPEAKER_04: Obviously, the character in the book, you know, Mr.
• 42:03
  SPEAKER_04: Darcy, you know, Jane Bennett, whatever, all of them, they are having their own experiences.
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_04: They are not real, but they very much take from real experiences that all of us experience in some way.
• 42:14
  SPEAKER_04: So I think like to boil it down to pixels on a screen, like I don't need to have feelings for Clea or for art for uh CL or these characters is really sad because I think that's what connects us all together ultimately.
• 42:28
  SPEAKER_01: Not to say that you are sad, but like No, and like I don't know, and this is the trouble where like I I run into the conflict, and my my sort of internal conflict here is because if it was just like if we never got to the second act of the game, I would totally agree with you.
• 42:42
  SPEAKER_01: I'd be 100% on the same page.
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_01: But it's sort of like I'm reading a story about like another story.
• 42:51
  SPEAKER_01: Like the characters in the book I'm reading are also reading a book and they care really deeply about the characters in like the internal book, but like I can't go two layers deep.
• 43:02
  SPEAKER_04: Is that not the human experience though?
• 43:03
  SPEAKER_04: That is that not you reading a book yourself and caring about those characters and then conflicting with other people?
• 43:09
  SPEAKER_01: It's like some sort of meta commentary, but like I just something about me loses the versimilitude when it's like two layers deep.
• 43:17
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm it's it's the I don't know what that is.
• 43:19
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, what's that movie?
• 43:20
  SPEAKER_02: Um god, what's what's the we gotta go deeper movie, the dream movie?
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_02: Inception.
• 43:26
  SPEAKER_02: Inception.
• 43:27
  SPEAKER_02: It's the inception thing where it's just it's too many layers of like I could only care about the top layer so much.
• 43:32
  SPEAKER_02: And then every layer below that kind of my attention gets taken away from it because the top layer is the real layer.
• 43:38
  SPEAKER_02: That's what that's the one that really matters.
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_02: So it's like that's that's yeah, I don't know.
• 43:43
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so it is sad.
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_02: I agree it's sad.
• 43:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'm saying I'm on your side for for several reasons.
• 43:50
  SPEAKER_04: Well, I was gonna say that I um Brett, your take about it kind of moving away from the grief.
• 43:57
  SPEAKER_04: I I had the grief feeling after I first finished the game, got to the ending, but then I like stepped away because I was, you know, so distraught.
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_04: And um, when I came back to it just to like finish the final bosses afterwards, you know, like go back and play those.
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_04: When I beat Clea, like I know that was like I I was like, you know, so excited to beat Clea.
• 44:16
  SPEAKER_04: Like she's like this big bad in the world, but her, like her scream of agony of like begging people to kill her is so messed up that it totally made me like it colored my memory of the grief story about feeling bad about the Desondre family and the journey they had to go on and made me just think that these are like like these are crazy gods who like to not have this power.
• 44:42
  SPEAKER_04: So I think like if that didn't happen, I would be right there with you for it.
• 44:47
  SPEAKER_02: So I um I I think oh go ahead, Brent.
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_02: Oh no, I I I was gonna get away from the game first, and like I was gonna talk about beyond the game.
• 44:55
  SPEAKER_02: So go ahead if you have comments about the game.
• 44:56
  SPEAKER_01: Well, hold on.
• 44:57
  SPEAKER_01: Sorry.
• 44:57
  SPEAKER_01: Well, okay, not to it, but I do have to get going.
• 44:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um sorry, I know this is like such a crappy time to leave because I'm like really invested in this.
• 45:04
  SPEAKER_01: But uh, you know, secondary plans.
• 45:08
  SPEAKER_00: No, you're fine.
• 45:09
  SPEAKER_00: Bye Seth.
• 45:10
  SPEAKER_00: So bye.
• 45:11
  SPEAKER_01: Ren, it's been fantastic meeting you.
• 45:13
  SPEAKER_01: I wish we could chat more.
• 45:14
  SPEAKER_01: Your take is vastly more valid than mine.
• 45:16
  SPEAKER_02: All right, for those who come after or whatever.
• 45:19
  SPEAKER_02: See uh see it.
• 45:22
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so I I wanted to I wanna I wanna say I agree with Rand because I think you can step outside and like, so this is something that Undertale, right?
• 45:32
  SPEAKER_00: Have you played Undertale?
• 45:33
  SPEAKER_00: Have you both played Undertale?
• 45:34
  SPEAKER_02: I've played a bit of Undertale.
• 45:36
  SPEAKER_02: I know uh I know the story of Undertale, I just haven't personally played it much.
• 45:40
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so Undertale posits a very interesting idea of what do we owe to fictional characters?
• 45:46
  SPEAKER_00: And I think, and at first, and I wish Seth left because Seth, Seth this Seth would say nothing.
• 45:52
  SPEAKER_00: I know that Seth, but I think that there is an argument that there are things that we owe to fictional characters.
• 46:00
  SPEAKER_00: I think that on several levels.
• 46:03
  SPEAKER_00: On first, the levels of fictional characters being communitive elements of human experiences, and us connecting with those characters is connecting to the creators of the game.
• 46:13
  SPEAKER_00: And so me caring about the characters is not just me caring about these fictional characters, but it's me caring about the real experiences of the people who made the game.
• 46:21
  SPEAKER_00: So, like, so it's like me, I consider art a way to connect with people.
• 46:26
  SPEAKER_00: And so when I watch a movie, I am connecting with the actor's performance and how they decide, like how they decided to communicate these ideas of anger or whatever they're acting.
• 46:36
  SPEAKER_00: And like, let's take materialist, right?
• 46:38
  SPEAKER_00: I love materialist because Celine's song and me seem to have similar anxieties about love.
• 46:46
  SPEAKER_00: Like we seem to we seem to really care about the same ideas.
• 46:50
  SPEAKER_00: And so when she expresses those through the writing and things like that, I think I am if I value human connection, if if I value connecting with other people through art, I am obligated in some way to care about those characters and to treat them with dignity in order to respect the communication that I have engaged in with the director.
• 47:12
  SPEAKER_00: So I think which and I think there's some element of that in this game where the characters like uh Gustav did have value.
• 47:20
  SPEAKER_00: Like Gustav was Mael trying to trying to come to grips with uh the loss of her brother, and I think Gustav was valuable.
• 47:29
  SPEAKER_00: It's just that you that that value has limits.
• 47:32
  SPEAKER_00: But but so in that way, I also think the second, and this is these are more like just random philosophical takes, but and the second way in which I think we do owe fictional characters something, is I think there is an like uh I think it says some I think the the morality of an action there's an element of the morality of an action that is not within how it affects other people, but just in the fact that you are doing the action.
• 48:01
  SPEAKER_00: And so, like, for example, if you and this is this is because I've been spending too much time on TikTok, I'm so sorry.
• 48:07
  SPEAKER_00: But if you like let's say that you uh like you um let's say that you cheat on your spouse and you don't tell them and and that's that's a less painful experience for them to be left in secret.
• 48:22
  SPEAKER_00: So like how you affect them is more positively if if if they hypothetically never know.
• 48:27
  SPEAKER_00: But the fact that you did it is what makes it unethical, regardless of the effect that it has on the other person.
• 48:32
  SPEAKER_00: The fact that you are holding on to that information and that you did that thing is unethical.
• 48:37
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think that how we act towards fictional characters can still be reflective of our own ethics, if if if we are engaging with them seriously.
• 48:46
  SPEAKER_00: And so if we give empathy to fictional characters, I think that says something about us.
• 48:52
  SPEAKER_00: And that if we want to develop that empathy, giving that to fictional characters is a really safe, uh it's a re it's a really safe place to strengthen that muscle in a way that doesn't benefit the characters per se, but I think it does benefit us.
• 49:09
  SPEAKER_00: So that in in the sense that like we should care about fictional characters and an argument too, those are my arguments of why of why we should care about fictional characters.
• 49:17
  SPEAKER_00: And and why I think even though everything in the world was fake in the world of the game, I still think defeating the painteress and Gustave dying is actually important.
• 49:28
  SPEAKER_00: Like I still think those are really significant moments, even though it was all fake.
• 49:33
  SPEAKER_00: Because it it does have meaning to to M Mael, and it does have meaning to the mom.
• 49:38
  SPEAKER_00: And because it has meaning to those people, it even in the world of the game where everything was fake in the painting, I think it's still a really meaningful experience that happened.
• 49:47
  SPEAKER_00: Anyways, so that's my I'm so sorry.
• 49:48
  SPEAKER_00: That's my rant about why I think um the question of what do we owe to fictional characters is a is a worthwhile question.
• 49:58
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's interesting that you connect to the end point of or I guess I guess you at the end point connect to the beginning point of something like in connecting to the actors or the people who are making the game rather than myself, where I'm connecting strictly to the game because I view art as a form of escapism rather than connection.
• 50:20
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm trying to escape everything that's in the world and the people who made it, whatever.
• 50:26
  SPEAKER_02: You know, obviously I care about, you know, there's a lot of voice actors that I really love and I will follow everything they do.
• 50:31
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but like when they're voicing a character, it's the character.
• 50:34
  SPEAKER_02: So like I'm viewing it strictly as just like a piece of like what is this game telling me about I don't know, the game and basic concepts instead of just like the meta narrative or like the reasons behind it.
• 50:46
  SPEAKER_02: Does that make sense?
• 50:47
  SPEAKER_02: Like I'm connecting, I guess I connect to art through how the art is like speaking to me rather than the voices behind the art, if that makes sense.
• 50:56
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know if I'm articulating that very well at all.
• 50:59
  SPEAKER_02: But I just think it's very interesting um how differently people connect can connect to the same thing.
• 51:06
  SPEAKER_04: I wish Seth was here because he just talked about Sims.
• 51:09
  SPEAKER_04: I was thinking about this in the context of Sims.
• 51:11
  SPEAKER_04: If my Sims were looking, if I was playing Sims and it was all hunky-dory, but then one day, I don't know, my dad crashes into my Sims game and he's like, I want to murder all your Sims.
• 51:21
  SPEAKER_04: And then my Sims are like running for their life and they're looking at me.
• 51:24
  SPEAKER_04: They look me in the eye and tell me to kill them because their existence is worse than than like it's worse than death, right?
• 51:34
  SPEAKER_04: It's worse than non-existence.
• 51:36
  SPEAKER_04: Even if it's like, even if they're like fundamentally not human, I can't continue to play Sims.
• 51:43
  SPEAKER_04: We shouldn't have the game Sims if that was the case, if that was true.
• 51:47
  unknown: You know?
• 51:47
  SPEAKER_04: Like, and I I would argue anyone who played Baldur's Gate and did the dirt run, who like flinched whenever anything bad happened, like flinched when you kicked the squirrel.
• 51:57
  SPEAKER_04: I know you feel the same.
• 51:58
  SPEAKER_04: You would feel the same.
• 51:59
  SPEAKER_04: You couldn't do it.
• 52:00
  SPEAKER_04: You can't even you can't even be mean to a character in a video game.
• 52:03
  SPEAKER_04: You think your your Sims begging you to end their lives, you would continue to play.
• 52:09
  SPEAKER_02: I'm I'm the weirdo who did the dirge run and thought it was like full evil dirge and thought it was fun within the context of the game, because I don't think of the real world implications of it, and I think of it within the confines of this little box that isn't created for me.
• 52:29
  SPEAKER_04: Well, because that's like you literally in the role, like evil, genuinely.
• 52:35
  SPEAKER_02: But it but it's not me, it's the character.
• 52:38
  SPEAKER_02: And so I can justify the character's evil choices by saying this is what the character would do, therefore I am okay with kicking the squirrel and having it explode against a tree, because that's what the game is presenting to me as the option for like, I guess, like the canon of what this character is.
• 52:56
  SPEAKER_02: Do I agree with it ethically?
• 52:58
  SPEAKER_02: Like, do I do it?
• 52:59
  SPEAKER_02: Do I think it poses an ethical dilemma?
• 53:01
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 53:02
  SPEAKER_02: Do I think it's wrong?
• 53:03
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 53:04
  SPEAKER_02: But I think it's right in the context.
• 53:07
  SPEAKER_02: Like in that specific context, I think it makes sense, and I'm okay doing it with the context, I guess.
• 53:13
  SPEAKER_04: But then it's what if it's Sims?
• 53:17
  SPEAKER_02: Uh I I I try not to get too invested in Sims because it will consume my life.
• 53:22
  SPEAKER_04: Imagine if our Sims asked you that question, because a lot of characters in Exhibition 33 asked that question.
• 53:30
  SPEAKER_04: They were like, please, all the Nevrons?
• 53:32
  SPEAKER_04: They went on and I'm taking I've taken this too far in a different direction, Debsy.
• 53:35
  SPEAKER_04: I'm sorry.
• 53:37
  SPEAKER_00: No, you're fine.
• 53:37
  SPEAKER_00: This is good.
• 53:38
  SPEAKER_00: This is good.
• 53:38
  SPEAKER_04: I'm like, how can we talk about capitalism somehow?
• 53:41
  SPEAKER_04: Like, how can I?
• 53:44
  SPEAKER_04: Um yeah, would you would you would both of you be okay with that?
• 53:48
  SPEAKER_04: It's okay if you are, obviously.
• 53:51
  SPEAKER_02: In the context of Sims, um, I always make Sims after my friend groups and family.
• 53:56
  SPEAKER_02: So I will have like my own family inside a house.
• 53:59
  SPEAKER_02: So if they were kicking and screaming and asking me to kill them, I would immediately gain a little bit of trauma in an uninstalled game because it's just a little too much.
• 54:07
  SPEAKER_04: Um, but which is literally the painting, is it not?
• 54:10
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 54:11
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, but at least I can disconnect because I'm not the one doing all the terrible things in the paint.
• 54:16
  SPEAKER_02: Like, you know what I mean?
• 54:17
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I I'm not responsible for that.
• 54:19
  SPEAKER_02: It's the DeSange family who I can put my trauma on to and I think I would be okay with torturing my Sims even if they wanted me to kill them.
• 54:29
  SPEAKER_00: I think I think because I think because, right?
• 54:34
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think we need to be kind to fictional characters.
• 54:38
  SPEAKER_00: I just think they matter.
• 54:40
  SPEAKER_00: But if the if the thing, like let's say that someone wants to talk about the experience of of wanting to die, right?
• 54:48
  SPEAKER_00: Let's say that's that's the vision of the creator, that they made this character who plead for their life and wants to die even though you never let them die.
• 54:56
  SPEAKER_00: And that's what the that's what the creator is, like when they coded it, when they animated that, when they voice acted that, that's what the creator was uh exploring, right?
• 55:05
  SPEAKER_00: So I think I I do think I should, if I, if I want to interact, if I want to come into that interaction, valuing the human connection between me and the creator, I do think I have to take that seriously.
• 55:15
  SPEAKER_00: And I do think it matters.
• 55:16
  SPEAKER_00: I do not think you have to be kind to fictional characters, though.
• 55:20
  SPEAKER_00: And so, in like an evil Baldur's Gate run, for example, I think the people at Larian Studios and the writers and things like that, they want to explore like the moral impacts of like the super evil in a fantasy setting, right?
• 55:35
  SPEAKER_00: And I I and I want to engage with them in that conversation.
• 55:38
  SPEAKER_00: And so for me, I'm not doing a the the moral act that I am doing is engaging in conversation, not in kicking the squirrel.
• 55:45
  SPEAKER_00: Kicking the squirrel is not a moral act, but me engaging in the conversation is a moral act.
• 55:51
  SPEAKER_00: So I would be okay with torturing my Sims even if they beg for mercy and death.
• 55:54
  SPEAKER_04: One more question.
• 55:55
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, Baldur's run.
• 55:57
  SPEAKER_04: Both both of you are doing your individual runs.
• 55:59
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 56:00
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 56:01
  SPEAKER_04: Uh, I'm trying to guess who you guys might have romanced, but I guess it's like it's like Shadow Heart or um Astarian.
• 56:06
  SPEAKER_04: They turn to you.
• 56:08
  SPEAKER_04: They're like, please stop playing this game.
• 56:11
  SPEAKER_04: Please, please end it.
• 56:13
  SPEAKER_04: Gail is like, I Gail is saying, I can't blow up anymore.
• 56:17
  SPEAKER_04: This is like too traumatic.
• 56:18
  SPEAKER_04: You're making me relive this moment over and over and over and over again.
• 56:22
  SPEAKER_04: I'm watching everyone die.
• 56:24
  SPEAKER_04: Please kill me.
• 56:26
  SPEAKER_04: Would you continue to play?
• 56:29
  SPEAKER_02: Uh I would either find a mod that uninstalls that character, or I would probably kill that character in game, stuff them in a box so I don't have to hear about them talk to me like that because I don't want to hear it.
• 56:40
  SPEAKER_04: You all y'all are such nice people.
• 56:42
  SPEAKER_04: I do not believe you.
• 56:44
  SPEAKER_00: Have you you should really play Undertale?
• 56:48
  SPEAKER_00: Because the hypothetical that you give me is literally, literally the theme of Undertale.
• 56:54
  SPEAKER_04: I don't know if it's gonna send me on like a little spiral though.
• 56:58
  SPEAKER_02: Like the hypothetical.
• 56:59
  SPEAKER_02: It's so cute because it's like little 8-bit art.
• 57:01
  SPEAKER_02: Like you can't be too upset about it because it's just too cute.
• 57:03
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 57:03
  SPEAKER_02: And the soundtrack is too good.
• 57:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, the soundtrack is very good.
• 57:06
  SPEAKER_00: But it's literally like, so I I'm not gonna spoil the game for you, but it um it asks very similar questions to what to what you're asking.
• 57:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um so do do you think like do you never play evil or make an immoral choice in a game?
• 57:22
  SPEAKER_04: Do you feel like oh of course I've like, you know, done the take the take the ladder out of the pool thing and Sims, of course.
• 57:30
  SPEAKER_04: But then none of them have turned to me and begged me for applying.
• 57:34
  SPEAKER_02: So that's the difference then, is that they haven't turned to you and expressed their displeasure, which is like why I think in Baldur's Gate, it's like I'm okay doing the evil run because like Dempsey said, it's it's like connecting with the creator's idea, like they made this thing to be experienced, so I'm gonna experience it because they wanted me to.
• 57:51
  SPEAKER_02: So I can kind of like bypass the like ethical or like moral dilemmas presented in the game.
• 57:58
  SPEAKER_02: Um, even if I like I wouldn't do these things as a person, but I will do them in the game to explore the game in its entirety because I want to see everything that a game has to offer.
• 58:08
  SPEAKER_02: So it's like it it yeah, I don't know.
• 58:12
  SPEAKER_04: But I'm really trying to put like the framework on that like this is your painting that you've just stepped into that your parents have ripped apart, and your your Baldur's Gate companions have gained consciousness and are easily- I uninstall the game because it's too much.
• 58:31
  SPEAKER_02: I don't want to have to think about it.
• 58:33
  SPEAKER_02: I'm escaping from this stuff, not trying to engage in it.
• 58:37
  SPEAKER_04: That's what I mean.
• 58:38
  SPEAKER_04: Like dird run knowing that they are like in hell.
• 58:46
  SPEAKER_00: So um, Rand, are you I know you said I think you said you won't answer this question, but I'm gonna ask you again because I think because it matters.
• 58:55
  SPEAKER_00: But so for Final Fantasy VII, or I guess I'll just I I won't ask you a question, I'll just say for Final Fantasy VII, I feel like uh Expedition 33 pulls a lot from the original Final Fantasy VII.
• 59:11
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think uh if you play the original, which I don't know if you did or not, but if you do, I think it will really change your perspective on Expedition 33 because you kind of get a sense of what the tradition, like the the overworld map, for example.
• 59:27
  SPEAKER_00: I just feel like there's a lot of elements from Final Fantasy VII specifically that Expedition 33 kind of uh borrows from.
• 59:34
  SPEAKER_02: 100%.
• 59:34
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's all my favorite elements of Final Fantasy VII, uh, or like just Final Fantasies and like the Persona series.
• 59:41
  SPEAKER_02: Um the combat's very persona while being very Final Fantasy, but yeah, um 100% I agree with you, Dempsey.
• 59:48
  SPEAKER_02: It's like Final Fantasy VII is like the template for this game, basically.
• 59:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 59:54
  SPEAKER_00: Well, um, so we're I think we're we we did it, we made a podcast.
• 59:57
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna give everyone a chance to do um Let's just say their final closing statements and then uh I'll close this out.
• 1:00:03
  SPEAKER_00: So my closing statement is that if you liked this game, I think you should play Undertale because Undertale, in my opinion, asks a lot of similar questions.
• 1:00:12
  SPEAKER_00: Ran?
• 1:00:14
  SPEAKER_04: Um, my take is I think regardless of how I feel about the ethics of the Desandra family's power, I think Sandfall is an incredible studio.
• 1:00:24
  SPEAKER_04: And I'm so excited for what they do next.
• 1:00:26
  SPEAKER_04: I think this is a beautiful, incredible video game that is definitely a work of art, obviously, since we are able to reflect on it.
• 1:00:33
  SPEAKER_02: Yep, I 100% agree.
• 1:00:35
  SPEAKER_02: I'm really excited to see they've they've announced that it's a franchise, like Claire Obscure is a franchise and they're going to be doing different things within this world.
• 1:00:42
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I hope that we get more than games from it personally.
• 1:00:47
  SPEAKER_02: I would love to see comics um in this world.
• 1:00:49
  SPEAKER_02: I would love like short novels.
• 1:00:51
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I would love, even if they did a show, great.
• 1:00:54
  SPEAKER_02: I really want books and comics from this world.
• 1:00:57
  SPEAKER_02: I think that would be fantastic.
• 1:00:59
  SPEAKER_02: If I have one ask from Sandfall, please, please pair with like Dark Horse comics or like someone make a comic from this series.
• 1:01:07
  SPEAKER_02: It'd be amazing.
• 1:01:07
  SPEAKER_00: That's as someone who hosted a podcast called Lord to Death.
• 1:01:11
  SPEAKER_00: That's a very lore to death answer.
• 1:01:14
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I just need more lore.
• 1:01:16
  SPEAKER_02: That's it.
• 1:01:17
  SPEAKER_02: I'm lore hungry.
• 1:01:18
  SPEAKER_00: An SKA plush, I think.
• 1:01:20
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 1:01:21
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, yes, 100%.
• 1:01:23
  SPEAKER_02: Give me the SKA plus.
• 1:01:24
  SPEAKER_00: Where can people find you, Ran?
• 1:01:26
  SPEAKER_00: Do you want you to want to plug yourself once more?
• 1:01:28
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, sure.
• 1:01:28
  SPEAKER_04: I'm on uh TikTok and trying to do more on Instagram, but it's just ranran.words.
• 1:01:34
  SPEAKER_04: And uh and then you can get the link to our Discord.
• 1:01:37
  SPEAKER_04: I think we're probably at roughly almost 500 people now.
• 1:01:41
  SPEAKER_04: And we'll starting our first read on September 1st.
• 1:01:43
  SPEAKER_04: Final Fantasy.
• 1:01:44
  SPEAKER_00: Cool, awesome.
• 1:01:46
  SPEAKER_00: And uh and with that, uh listeners, if you if you have any questions, if you have any comments, if you have any opinions and want to share them, email's in the show notes.
• 1:01:53
  SPEAKER_00: All the relevant links are in the show notes.
• 1:01:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um, thanks so much.
• 1:01:56
  SPEAKER_00: Uh catch you next time.
• 1:01:57
  SPEAKER_00: Bye.
• 1:01:58
  SPEAKER_00: Bye.
• 1:02:00
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, great, fantastic.