Latest / Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families / 5 Things to Stop Saying to Your Kids

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5 Things to Stop Saying to Your Kids · Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Don't you make me come over there and make you
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  Speaker 1: listen to this podcast. You just need to do it
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: the right way.
• 0:10
  Speaker 2: Or else.
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  Speaker 1: Or else. Ultimatums. The dumb things. Do you remember when
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  Speaker 1: you were a kid growing up and your parents would
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  Speaker 1: say stuff and you'd just think, oh my goodness, when
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  Speaker 1: I'm a parent, I will never say that to my kids.
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  Speaker 2: Wait till your father comes home.
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  Speaker 1: That's another good one.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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  Speaker 1: My mother has shown up in my larynx. How did
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  Speaker 1: that happen? Today on the Happy Families podcast, we talk
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  Speaker 1: about the dumb things that our parents said that we
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  Speaker 1: seem to say as well and why they're dumb. We
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  Speaker 1: also talk about some well-intentioned things that we say, thinking
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  Speaker 1: they're helping, but they're probably not. And what we should
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  Speaker 1: say instead. Today, all the stuff to stop saying to
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  Speaker 1: your kids, the stuff that we need to say as
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  Speaker 1: an alternative to make things better. I can't wait for
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  Speaker 1: today's podcast. Join us right after this break. This is
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  Speaker 1: the Happy Families podcast, where you get real parenting solutions
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  Speaker 1: every single day. We're Justin and Kylie Coulson. We're the
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: parents of six kids. And Kylie, we're launching into... Things
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  Speaker 1: parents say that, honestly, they probably shouldn't say.
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  Speaker 2: Well, I haven't looked at your list.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: I'm interested. What have you put at the top of
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  Speaker 2: the list?
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  Speaker 1: My favorite one is this one. I'm not going to
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  Speaker 1: tell you again. I'm not going to say it again.
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  Speaker 1: And we're saying it for like the fourth time. And
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  Speaker 1: then I've actually heard myself do this. I've said, I
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  Speaker 1: don't want to have to say this again. Go into
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  Speaker 1: your bedroom and pick up your stuff. So I've said
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  Speaker 1: I don't want to say it again. And then I've
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  Speaker 1: literally said it again. How good is that? So good. Okay,
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  Speaker 1: that's my first one. I have five of these.
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  Speaker 3: Five?
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, five.
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  Speaker 2: All from personal experience?
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  Speaker 1: Either done to me or done by me. Yeah, a
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  Speaker 1: bit of both. Don't make me come up there. Don't
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  Speaker 1: make me come up the stairs. Don't make me come
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  Speaker 1: into your bedroom and sort this out, which basically means
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  Speaker 1: I'm on my way in. I'm going to sort this out.
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  Speaker 1: I've done that so many times. Here's my next one.
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  Speaker 1: If you keep it up, I'm going to turn this
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  Speaker 1: car around and we're going to cancel the holiday. Ouch.
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  Speaker 1: My dad said that to me once and I didn't
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  Speaker 1: say it, but I remember thinking, no, you're not. No,
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  Speaker 1: you're not. I dare you. That's right. I dare you
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  Speaker 1: to cancel the holiday. We say this stuff, right? All
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  Speaker 1: these ultimatums, all these threats, because in the moment we
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  Speaker 1: feel like that's going to scare our kids or we're
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  Speaker 1: going to get the result we want. Not convinced. Not convinced.
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  Speaker 1: Have we ever said, I'm sure I've said this to
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  Speaker 1: the kids at least once, if you don't get in
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  Speaker 1: the car right now, we are never coming back to
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  Speaker 1: the park. We are not going to visit the beach
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  Speaker 1: ever again if you cannot do as you're told and
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  Speaker 1: get back into the car.
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  Speaker 3: The funny thing is you've said that so many times,
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  Speaker 3: but what's even funnier is we spend maybe an hour
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  Speaker 3: convincing them to go to the park or to the beach.
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  Speaker 1: Come on, kids. No, I want to stay at home.
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  Speaker 1: Just on that, I've lost count of the number of
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  Speaker 1: times where the kids have gone into the ocean to
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  Speaker 1: wash the sand off their bodies. And I've said, you're
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  Speaker 1: not to get any sand on yourself as you walk
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  Speaker 1: back up the beach to the car. And they literally
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  Speaker 1: fall face first into the sand and carve themselves in sand.
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  Speaker 1: So they've got to go back into the water to
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  Speaker 1: get all the sand off again and again and again.
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  Speaker 3: Anyway, you've got a big long list. So let's go.
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  Speaker 1: You stole one of mine. Wait till your father gets home.
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  Speaker 1: Have you ever said that to the kids?
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  Speaker 3: I have.
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  Speaker 1: Really?
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  Speaker 2: I might still say that to them.
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  Speaker 1: Are you serious? You can't say that. Have you honestly
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  Speaker 1: said that, like, in recent days, weeks, months, years? Maybe yesterday. Oh, no. See,
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  Speaker 1: I think this one's really unfair. Because now you're outsourcing
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  Speaker 1: all this to a guy who has no idea what
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  Speaker 1: happened and doesn't want to be involved. And I walk
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  Speaker 1: in the house. You literally said that yesterday.
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  Speaker 3: Maybe.
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  Speaker 1: Oh, that's so bad. And did they say, I'll be
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  Speaker 1: glad when dad gets home because he's understanding, patient and caring?
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  Speaker 3: No, they ignored me.
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  Speaker 1: Right. So it didn't work at all.
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  Speaker 3: It didn't.
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  Speaker 1: Oh my goodness.
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  Speaker 3: It's like the last tool in my toolkit.
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  Speaker 1: Well, this is my last one because we've got to
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  Speaker 1: have the serious conversation, which we'll do after the break.
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  Speaker 1: My favorite one, dumb things that we say, things that
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  Speaker 1: make absolutely no sense. How many times do I have
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  Speaker 1: to tell you just that line? Like we say it
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  Speaker 1: all the time. And you know what the answer is?
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  Speaker 1: Because it's a real question. It has a real answer. Yeah, yeah.
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  Speaker 1: Many more times than you would like to tell me.
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  Speaker 1: That's what the answer is. At least another three or
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  Speaker 1: four times today and probably every time we have to
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  Speaker 1: do this task. So after the break, let's talk about
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: what we need to say instead and some of the
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  Speaker 1: well-intentioned things that we are saying to our kids that
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  Speaker 1: just aren't helping. That's next on the Happy Families Podcast.
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  Speaker 1: All right, Kylie, we've had our fun. It's time for
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  Speaker 1: a serious chat now about things that we say because
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  Speaker 1: we think that they're helpful, things that we say that
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  Speaker 1: are going to be well-intentioned and guide our children to
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  Speaker 1: better living, unlike the things that we've shared in that
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  Speaker 1: first part of the podcast. And you've got the list
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  Speaker 1: written down this time, so why don't you guide us
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  Speaker 1: through it and I'll add some flavour, colour or science
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  Speaker 1: as we go.
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  Speaker 2: Oh, good job. You're so smart, Justin.
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  Speaker 1: If you haven't heard any of our podcasts or read
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  Speaker 1: any of my articles about praise, praise is at its
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  Speaker 1: very core... coercive and manipulative, or at its very least,
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  Speaker 1: it's judgmental and it's valuative. So what happens is a
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  Speaker 1: child stops listening to their inner voice and they start
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  Speaker 1: looking outside of themselves for external validation of what they've done.
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  Speaker 1: That's a whole lot of big words to say praising
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  Speaker 1: isn't helpful. In fact, data shows that- We're.
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  Speaker 2: Often saying it, though, as a form of manipulation. We're
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  Speaker 2: thinking that If we can give them the praise that's
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  Speaker 2: needful for them to continue doing the thing that we
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  Speaker 2: want them to do.
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  Speaker 1: It's this reinforcement.
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  Speaker 3: Yes. Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: I remember being in a park. This is going back
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  Speaker 1: years ago now. I was in a park. There was
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  Speaker 1: a mum in the park. And this is going to
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  Speaker 1: sound like I'm mum shaming. Yeah, you know what? I am.
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  Speaker 1: Sue me. I'm mum shaming on this one because it
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  Speaker 1: illustrates a really important point. She had a couple of
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  Speaker 1: her kids there and the kids were playing with some
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  Speaker 1: other kids in the park. They may or may not
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  Speaker 1: have known them. I don't know. And the mum was
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  Speaker 1: so effusive with her praise. Good running, good climbing, great sharing,
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  Speaker 1: good talking. Like it was kind of good this, good
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  Speaker 1: that everywhere. And I kind of wanted to go up
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  Speaker 1: to the mum and say, good praising, which would have
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  Speaker 1: been extremely rude. And of course I didn't do it
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  Speaker 1: because I'm not that kind of person. I just keep
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  Speaker 1: all of my judgment and my shaming comments to myself.
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  Speaker 1: But the idea here, there's a researcher called Wolf Meyer.
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  Speaker 1: What he found is that the more you praise your kids,
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  Speaker 1: especially once they get north of about four or five
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  Speaker 1: years of age, the more they start to infer that
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  Speaker 1: that you must think that they have low ability. If
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  Speaker 1: you've got to praise me that much, you must think
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  Speaker 1: that I'm not very good. There's another researcher by the
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  Speaker 1: name of Eddie Brummelman who did this fascinating study and
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  Speaker 1: found that we give the most effusive praise to the
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  Speaker 1: kids who are struggling the most. But of course, if
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  Speaker 1: they're making those inferences, then they're going, oh my goodness,
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  Speaker 1: you're praising me so over the top, which means that
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  Speaker 1: you must think that I really suck at this. And
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  Speaker 1: so Instead of praising our children, it's way better to
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  Speaker 1: just let them play and figure stuff out for themselves.
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  Speaker 1: And if they're curious about how they're doing, it's really
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  Speaker 1: advantageous to just invite them to reflect. How do you
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  Speaker 1: think you did? Or what did you enjoy about that?
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  Speaker 1: Or I know you're asking me how I think you went.
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  Speaker 1: And I can tell you, but first off, what do
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  Speaker 1: you think was the best part of what you did?
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  Speaker 1: And what do you think was the worst part? Like
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  Speaker 1: you tell me. Getting that reflection from them, it allows
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  Speaker 1: you to then have, you can kind of say whatever
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  Speaker 1: you need to after that. But hopefully... their reflections will
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  Speaker 1: give you a really strong conversation point. So this is
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  Speaker 1: not the worst thing in the world you can say,
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  Speaker 1: but it's not helpful. I would definitely argue against praise.
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  Speaker 2: I'm so disappointed in you.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah. This comment I've heard many times, and I'm not
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  Speaker 1: going to lie, every now and again, I've heard it
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  Speaker 1: has been an extremely motivational strategy.
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  Speaker 2: I was going to say, there have been a number
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  Speaker 2: of friends that I've talked to over the years who
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  Speaker 2: acknowledge their parents never got angry at them. They never
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  Speaker 2: punished them, but there were key moments in their life
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  Speaker 2: where they let them know that they were disappointed in them.
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  Speaker 2: And that just was the motivation they needed to change
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  Speaker 2: the way they were acting or the things that they
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  Speaker 2: were doing in their life.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: So I don't think it's a helpful statement. People really
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  Speaker 1: hate the idea of shame, but I want to acknowledge
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  Speaker 1: at the outset that in some Very rare circumstances. Shame
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  Speaker 1: is really helpful. Shame is what keeps people focused on
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  Speaker 1: being part of whatever the rules, the norms, the socialization
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  Speaker 1: requirements are. And shame can play an important role in
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  Speaker 1: helping us to socialize our children well. I'm really disappointed
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  Speaker 1: in you. It might work. But I think the risks
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  Speaker 1: are really significant.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, I do too.
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  Speaker 1: There's some researchers out of Israel. Their names are Avi
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  Speaker 1: Asor and Guy Roth. And they've done heaps of studies
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  Speaker 1: over the last, I'd say, 30 years looking at what
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  Speaker 1: they call conditional parental regard. And so conditional parental regard
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  Speaker 1: basically means you receive affection from me when you do
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  Speaker 1: what I like and I withdraw my affection when you
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  Speaker 1: don't do what I like. So I'm really disappointed in you.
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  Speaker 1: What that does is it says I'm withdrawing all positive
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  Speaker 1: attention from you. I'm hitting you up with shame. And
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  Speaker 1: that comes at a cost. It comes at a cost
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  Speaker 1: of the child's feelings of self-worth and esteem, but also
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  Speaker 1: it can cost the relationship. And every now and again,
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  Speaker 1: you'll get kids who just, they really struggle to live
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  Speaker 1: with the awfulness that they've created because of the shameful
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  Speaker 1: way in which they've acted.
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  Speaker 2: I think that for the most part, we're pretty good
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  Speaker 2: at shaming and guilting ourselves. We don't need a pile
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  Speaker 2: on from other people. And I know that we're dealing
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  Speaker 2: with children and they're learning how to do life well
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  Speaker 2: and But I think that it's more important that we
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  Speaker 2: sit with them and understand how they're feeling.
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  Speaker 1: I can tell you now that the most powerful conversations
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  Speaker 1: we've had with our children after they've done dumb things,
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  Speaker 1: sometimes really harmful things, are the conversations not where we've said, well,
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  Speaker 1: I'm really disappointed. What you did was silly. That hasn't worked.
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  Speaker 1: What has worked is when we've sat down and we've said,
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  Speaker 1: what you're going through is really hard. You need to
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: know that we love you no matter what. When the
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: kid's here, no matter what, that builds bridges. It builds bonds.
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  Speaker 1: It builds a turning back towards. The kids look at
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  Speaker 1: you and go, well, I want to feel more of that.
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  Speaker 1: So I'm not going to do that dumb thing again.
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  Speaker 1: I've already shamed myself. I'm already feeling guilty. I know
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  Speaker 1: that I got it wrong. And now that I've got
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  Speaker 1: that unconditionality from you, I'm orienting myself back to the
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  Speaker 1: steps that are necessary to repair this error, this faulty thinking.
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  Speaker 2: Well, it turns them towards you.
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  Speaker 3: Right.
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  Speaker 2: As opposed to separating there's there's a separation that takes
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  Speaker 2: place when there's a feeling of guilt or shame or
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  Speaker 2: disappointment oh my goodness yeah in the other person and
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  Speaker 2: so instead of you being able to be the influence
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  Speaker 2: that your children actually need after they've made silly mistakes
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  Speaker 2: you end up being the judge and jury.
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  Speaker 1: Really hard to get i'm disappointed in you right i
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  Speaker 1: would caution against it in almost every circumstance.
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  Speaker 2: You'll be fine it's not that bad it's.
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  Speaker 1: Not that bad Stop being a sook about it. You'll
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: be okay. It's not that big of a deal. I
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  Speaker 1: don't think I need to say much about this. It
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: comes out of our mouths so easily. John Gottman wrote
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: the book Raising an Emotionally Intelligent Child. That's kind of
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  Speaker 1: where my mind goes when you talk about that. It's invalidating.
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  Speaker 1: We don't have to be our children's therapists. We don't
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: have to sit down with our kids all the time
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  Speaker 1: and walk through all of their emotions in all of
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  Speaker 1: these big ways. I think that we've swung the pendulum
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  Speaker 1: too far in that direction. But the dismissive version, you'll
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: be fine. just leaves kids isolated and on their own.
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  Speaker 1: It's like, oh my goodness, this is just way too much.
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  Speaker 1: Way better to say, this is really tough, isn't it?
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  Speaker 1: Like just one sentence. You don't have to do therapy
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  Speaker 1: on your kids. They don't want you to anyway. But
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: if they're having a rough time, you don't say, oh,
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  Speaker 1: you'll be fine. Stop talking about it. You're just going
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: to go, this is pretty tough, isn't it? And then
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: you put your arm around and give them a squeeze.
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: And at that point, they usually say, yeah, but I
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: can figure this out. Like they'll actually move themselves forward
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: rather than you having to push them forward by saying,
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  Speaker 1: you'll be fine, which is well-intentioned, but it usually doesn't land.
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: One of our children sent me a message from school
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  Speaker 2: a few weeks back and she said, mom, it's such
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: a hard day today. One of my friends isn't here.
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: The other friend, she's been unkind to me at the
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: moment and the boys are just being awful. They're just
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: being awful. And she said, I'm just messaging you because
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: I know I can get through this, but it's hard.
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  Speaker 3: It's really hard.
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  Speaker 2: And I was so proud of it because normally I
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: would get a message like that and be like, can
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: you come pick me up? But because we have developed
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: this environment where the kids can come to us and
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: tell us things and we're going to at least validate
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: that it's hard.
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  Speaker 3: Right.
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  Speaker 1: So you could have said, kiddo, you'll be fine. Just
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: push through it.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: And she's going to be like, oh, whereas if you
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: can respond and say, it sounds like you're having a
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: really tough day.
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah. It sounds really hard.
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: It sounds really tough. I'm here if you need me.
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  Speaker 1: It sounds like you've got this though. It just shifts
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: the tone of the conversation in our kids. They start
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: to trust themselves as well, which is such a valuable thing.
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: I actually had this next one said to me, and
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: the impact that it had on me was huge.
• 13:52
  Speaker 3: Yeah, what is it?
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: My best friend had the most beautiful handwriting, and one
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: day I was doing something at home. I was writing
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: a letter or something, and my mum saw my writing,
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: and she looked at me, and she said, why can't
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: you write more like Sarah?
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  Speaker 3: Oh, yeah.
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: And I actually loved my handwriting. I was really proud
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: of my, what do you call that?
• 14:14
  Speaker 3: Penmanship?
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  Speaker 1: Right, okay.
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  Speaker 3: I really liked my handwriting.
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  Speaker 2: But I spent so much of my teenage years questioning
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  Speaker 2: whether I was worthy of writing any letters to people
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  Speaker 2: because my handwriting was terrible, clearly.
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  Speaker 1: So it's usually not comparing to friends, although sometimes it is.
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  Speaker 1: It's just comparing with a sibling, older brother, younger sister,
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  Speaker 1: whatever it might be. There is some data on this.
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: Comparison. It's the thief of all joy, I think.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: So the technical term in the research literature is differential treatment.
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: Differential treatment. And it is predictive of adjustment problems and
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: sibling conflicts and coping problems. There is no way that
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: you can get this right. So don't do it. is
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: my professional opinion. It's kind of like, I remember hearing
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: one parent, I'm going to get this wrong. I can't
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: remember exactly what they said. So my, my best version is, um, let's,
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: let's call the, the two, the two girls in the family. Um,
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: I'll go with some old school names. We'll go with, um,
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: Betty and Martha. I don't know why they're just two
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: old school names that have come to my mind. So, uh,
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  Speaker 1: the parents are like, uh, Betty's, Betty's the singer and
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: Martha's the piano player or, Betty's the one with the
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: big personality and Martha's the one who is really practical.
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  Speaker 1: And what those girls will usually be hearing is not
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: what they are but what they're not because their sister
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: is that and they'll start to get envious of it.
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: It's just not helpful. Don't compare the kids. Just love
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: them for who they are. Accept them for who they are.
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: Be grateful for who they are. That's the take-home message
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: for that one.
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: And I'm really guilty of number five.
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: This is our last one. What's our last one?
• 15:54
  Speaker 3: I was never good at maths anyway.
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Pick your subjects. Oh, we're not runners.
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: We don't run in this family. We don't do the exercise.
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: That's what the family down the street does. No, we're
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: the ….
• 16:07
  Speaker 3: We're really good at English. We're very, very good at
• 16:09
  Speaker 3: English in this house. Yeah, yeah.
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: You know what we're doing here? We're just setting up
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: a framing. We're setting up a mindset. The best thing
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: to say here is let's work it out. We can
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: figure this out. So the conversation should not be about
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: what we're good at and what we're not good at.
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: There's no such thing. There's just people who figure stuff
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: out and people who don't. And that's going to be
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: much more valuable. So there you go. That's the end
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: of today's pod. We hope that you've enjoyed the stuff
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: that you should never say to your kids, whether it's
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: dumb stuff or well-intentioned stuff that backfires. The Happy Families podcast,
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: sound and audio from Justin Rule on Abridge Media. Mim
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: Hammonds looks after our admin and other support. And if
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: you'd like more info to make your family happier, visit
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: us at happyfamilies.com.au.