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What the Kinsey Report Left Out · Sex Advice for Seniors Podcast

0:08
SPEAKER_01: Hi, I'm Suzanne.
0:09
SPEAKER_01: And I'm Zoe.
0:11
SPEAKER_01: And you are listening to Sex Advice for Seniors.
0:14
SPEAKER_01: And we're very, very excited today to talk about the Kinsey Report and the over 60s that came out quite recently with someone who was directly involved in the research on it.
0:27
SPEAKER_01: So it's a really humongous pleasure to meet you, Lauren Stryker, and to hear all about
0:35
SPEAKER_01: What went into that research and what didn't get published in Cosmopolitan who were, I guess, the major publication for the release of that research to the general public.
0:47
SPEAKER_01: So yeah, welcome.
0:49
SPEAKER_01: And tell us, tell us a little bit about your background.
0:52
SPEAKER_02: I'm so glad to be here talking with both of you.
0:55
SPEAKER_02: So as you mentioned, I am a gynecologist.
0:57
SPEAKER_02: I am a professor of obstetrics and gynecology at Northwestern University, part of the Feinberg School of Medicine.
1:03
SPEAKER_02: And I really wear two hats.
1:05
SPEAKER_02: One hat is a very academic hat.
1:07
SPEAKER_02: I do research and my particular area of research is in menopause and in sexual medicine, meaning the hormonal, physical and medical aspects of human sexual response.
1:19
SPEAKER_02: The
1:20
SPEAKER_02: What the Kinsey Report Left Out
1:45
SPEAKER_02: It's called Quit the O in Mojo because while you certainly hear about people talking about older women and men having sex and issues with libido, it is very, very rare that someone addresses the fact that 50% of women have difficulty having an orgasm even if they had no trouble when they were younger.
2:07
SPEAKER_02: So that's what I'm doing in a nutshell.
2:10
SPEAKER_01: Welcome to the very small group of people in the universe who are talking about this topic.
2:17
SPEAKER_01: There's probably what, like maybe 10 of us on the planet that I'm aware of that are actually interested.
2:23
SPEAKER_02: We're talking up for 100, so we'll wake up for it, right?
2:26
SPEAKER_01: Honestly, gosh, seriously.
2:29
SPEAKER_01: Anyway, the Cosmo report came out a few months ago.
2:32
SPEAKER_01: I read the whole thing about what the report about Kinsey and the over 60s said.
2:40
SPEAKER_01: And what struck me was what they didn't say.
2:43
SPEAKER_01: It all seemed to me, for those who have read it, quite predictable, which was for me in a nutshell, there's a bunch of people who still don't have sex over 60s.
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SPEAKER_01: What the Kinsey Report Left Out
3:21
SPEAKER_01: But yeah, you said that you would release information to us about what they didn't say.
3:28
SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
3:30
SPEAKER_02: One comment about what you just said is this notion that there were no surprises.
3:35
SPEAKER_02: Well, there are no surprises for you, Suzanne, and you, Zoe, because you are not representative of the majority of women out there.
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SPEAKER_02: What the Kinsey Report Left Out
4:03
SPEAKER_02: To your point about what wasn't included, now keep in mind that the Kinsey research was very, very comprehensive, very expansive.
4:11
SPEAKER_02: I mean, this was a very long questionnaire that was put together by experts such as myself at the Kinsey Institute.
4:18
SPEAKER_02: And Cosmo just took a little snapshot of that.
4:21
SPEAKER_02: And certainly there's a lot more data.
4:23
SPEAKER_02: If they had included it all, it would have been a 50-page article.
4:26
SPEAKER_02: So the data will be published, but it will be published in
4:30
SPEAKER_02: A Scientific Journal probably multiple articles so the Kinsey team is now
4:36
SPEAKER_02: What the Kinsey Report Left Out
5:02
SPEAKER_02: They are generally exclusively defining sex as penile vaginal intercourse.
5:09
SPEAKER_02: And that's not sex.
5:11
SPEAKER_02: You know, sex is all manner of things that very often has nothing to do with penetration.
5:16
SPEAKER_02: So when we put these questions together, we were very much aware of that.
5:21
SPEAKER_02: And we very much were steering these questions towards non-penetrative
5:28
SPEAKER_02: to Human Sexuality.
5:29
SPEAKER_02: And that was really important because when people read statistics about sexuality and thinking, okay, well, that doesn't really sound like me.
5:38
SPEAKER_02: I feel like we have a very nice sex life.
5:40
SPEAKER_02: We're just not having intercourse.
5:42
SPEAKER_02: And this article very much addressed the fact that not only are women not having intercourse, but the ones who aren't are having just as good sex, if not better.
5:52
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I feel a little bit, while maybe there weren't a lot of surprising details and data in the Cosmo article, the Cosmo version of the Kinsey research, there were many things in that article that I felt were really encouraging and very validating in terms of what I'm doing in the trenches with my clients, many of whom are over 60.
6:18
SPEAKER_00: and I think that one of the things that is you know and I work with people also that are much younger in getting them to redefine their idea of what sex is and so part of my part of what I sort of see as this sort of
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SPEAKER_00: What the Kinsey Report Left Out
7:04
SPEAKER_00: Even if orgasm is harder to reach, that the quality of the orgasms are great.
7:13
SPEAKER_02: In some cases, in some cases.
7:16
SPEAKER_02: And I do want to talk about that because that's a particular area of interest for me.
7:19
SPEAKER_02: But I also want to comment the thing about this article also was it wasn't all about partnered sex.
7:26
SPEAKER_02: And we were very careful about
7:28
SPEAKER_02: to include questions that validated and helped us learn more about what women are doing to be self-sexual.
7:38
SPEAKER_02: And when we think about this, as you well know, at least 50% of women over the age of 60 are either unpartnered or they have a partner with an uncooperative penis so that they are really left to their own devices, if you will.
7:53
SPEAKER_02: And this article and this study really validated that.
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SPEAKER_01: What the Kinsey Report Left Out
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SPEAKER_02: What the Kinsey Report Left Out
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SPEAKER_02: Women very often don't know where their clitoris is.
9:04
SPEAKER_02: They do not know that clitoral stimulation is almost always required in order to have an orgasm.
9:09
SPEAKER_02: They think that they're supposed to have an orgasm with penetrative sex.
9:13
SPEAKER_02: So it's really twofold.
9:14
SPEAKER_02: It's giving someone permission to say, no, this is normal and this is okay.
9:19
SPEAKER_02: And second, to facilitate women's awareness of how to make it happen, including why it's important for older women to use a vibrator.
9:27
SPEAKER_01: And what are the other things that, again, you discovered in the research?
9:33
SPEAKER_01: There were men involved in this research as well?
9:36
SPEAKER_02: The men were peripherally involved.
9:39
SPEAKER_02: And actually, the parts that I was very much involved in was the section on orgasm.
9:45
SPEAKER_02: Because that's an area of expertise, I submitted all of the questions on orgasm.
9:49
SPEAKER_02: And...
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SPEAKER_02: What the Kinsey Report Left Out
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SPEAKER_02: What the Kinsey Report Left Out
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SPEAKER_02: What the Kinsey Report Left Out
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SPEAKER_02: What the Kinsey Report Left Out
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SPEAKER_02: And then there's the bigger nerves that respond to vibration.
12:13
SPEAKER_02: And you know where I'm going here.
12:15
SPEAKER_02: When you look at the consequences of aging, medication, and medical problems, it's the little nerves that suffer.
12:22
SPEAKER_02: It's the little nerves, particularly in diabetes, that are just no longer functional.
12:26
SPEAKER_02: So it may be that the woman who before did just fine with licking and stroking is now not going to have an orgasm
12:36
SPEAKER_02: Unless She Uses Vibration.
12:39
SPEAKER_02: So when we look at the Kinsey data, was the data better as far as the ability to have an orgasm and the quality of orgasm?
12:47
SPEAKER_02: Because these women knew enough to use a vibrator.
12:50
SPEAKER_02: And yes, we know from the data that they were using vibrators.
12:53
SPEAKER_02: So it's a little tricky just to look at the numbers itself.
12:58
SPEAKER_02: You kind of have to do the deeper dive into what are the other variables that are impacting on these results.
13:05
SPEAKER_02: And we don't know things like how healthy was this population?
13:08
SPEAKER_02: You know, was this a diabetic population?
13:10
SPEAKER_02: Did they have cardiovascular disease?
13:12
SPEAKER_02: How many of these women were taking antidepressants?
13:14
SPEAKER_02: So again, lots of variables, but still the data was for the most part validating what I've certainly seen in my clinical practice.
13:25
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's interesting because of course we know from so many people that we've spoken to that
13:32
SPEAKER_01: as we age obviously many people have health issues right whether it's mobility issues whether it's diabetes cardiovascular disease MS whatever it happens to be right and as a result of that they're on various medication and frankly it seems to me that if you don't have that information supported by the information that they're giving you around the quality of their orgasm whether they're able to have one or not then
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SPEAKER_01: What the Kinsey Report Left Out
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SPEAKER_02: and it is very complicated and when I started to write my book Put the O Back in Mojo about postmenopause orgasm and I thought this was going to be a relatively quick book to write I now have 30 chapters including I just finished writing the chapter on physical challenges because if you can't hold a vibrator because of bad arthritis and if you can't get into the right position that's going to be a problem so I'm going to tell you a term maybe you'll surprise me and you have heard of it but maybe not
14:58
SPEAKER_02: Have you heard about sexual ergonomics, ergo erotics?
15:04
SPEAKER_02: And basically, you know what ergonomics is, of course.
15:07
SPEAKER_02: It's manipulating the external environment to facilitate your ability to do physical things.
15:12
SPEAKER_02: Well, you can also do that sexually.
15:14
SPEAKER_02: Sometimes it's with the right pillow.
15:16
SPEAKER_02: Sometimes it's with a different position.
15:18
SPEAKER_02: But I actually just wrote an entire chapter on the ergonomics of sexual...
15:25
SPEAKER_02: Sexuality because this is no small feat for a population that's had hip replacements, knee replacements, back pain, arthritis.
15:34
SPEAKER_02: I don't have to tell you the list is very long.
15:37
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
15:40
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's fascinating.
15:41
SPEAKER_00: The other piece of all of this, of course, that I'm curious if I don't think it can be really addressed in the research is
15:51
SPEAKER_00: But what about attitudes towards sex?
15:54
SPEAKER_00: What about relational health?
15:56
SPEAKER_00: What about, you know, people who, I mean, I am supporting a lot of people in embracing a new paradigm, a new reality.
16:05
SPEAKER_02: The new normal, as I say.
16:07
SPEAKER_02: This is a new normal.
16:08
SPEAKER_00: A new normal.
16:09
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
16:09
SPEAKER_00: The sexual self-esteem, you know, and not being stuck in the sort of mindset that this is just a pale comparison to what it used to be and there's something missing or broken.
16:22
SPEAKER_00: Right.
16:22
SPEAKER_02: And also just when we think in terms of sex, we are informed by the media.
16:28
SPEAKER_02: Young, beautiful, perfect bodies, perky breasts, and you start to think, okay, can I still be sexual with my cellulite and my breasts that are hitting my belt?
16:39
SPEAKER_02: So there's that part of it too.
16:42
SPEAKER_02: And what you're talking about, of course, are the psychosocial aspects of human sexual response.
16:46
SPEAKER_02: And when I say that that's not what I do, it's because I'm not minimizing it at all, which is why I brought my daughter in, who's a PhD in clinical sexology, to write the chapters in my book to talk about all those psychosexual aspects, because they are every bit as important, if not more important.
17:03
SPEAKER_02: and particularly in, I don't want to say that in every age group it's important, but certainly in older women it takes on a whole different thing because they have a lifetime of having poor body image, of having certain feelings about what is sexy, what isn't sexy.
17:21
SPEAKER_02: So that's a huge part of it.
17:22
SPEAKER_02: I always tell people, you know, look, his eyesight isn't so great anyway, so don't worry about it.
17:28
SPEAKER_02: Light some candles and everyone will look nicer.
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SPEAKER_02: What the Kinsey Report Left Out
17:51
SPEAKER_02: Pharmaceutical Agents to Increase Libido, etc.
17:54
SPEAKER_02: While those may give someone a little kickstart or a little testosterone, they get far more bang for their buck by meeting with a talented sex therapist.
18:05
SPEAKER_02: Even if you have a good relationship, that's where people kind of get confused and they don't, we don't need a sex therapist.
18:10
SPEAKER_02: We have a great relationship.
18:11
SPEAKER_02: Well, you might, but a sex therapist is going to help you connect sexually again because too often it's just been on the back burner.
18:19
SPEAKER_00: on the Backburner.
18:43
SPEAKER_02: If you have a vagina that's like the Sahara Desert, it doesn't matter how good your relationship is, how much sex therapy you've had, how many dates you go on and how much candlelight you have, you got to get your vagina to lubricate and have normal elasticity again, which is my job.
19:01
SPEAKER_02: My first book is called Slip, Sliding, Way, Turning Back the Clock on Your Vagina and it sells very well.
19:07
SPEAKER_01: Listen, it wasn't until a friend of mine who we've interviewed who runs a sex shop and who sells lube and sex toys told me that vaginal estrogen had saved her life that I actually went and because I had no idea about this and things were starting to get a bit challenging down there in terms of pleasure and
19:30
SPEAKER_01: What the Kinsey Report Left Out
19:49
SPEAKER_01: How different my sex life is now.
19:52
SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's like night and day.
19:55
SPEAKER_01: It's just unbelievable.
19:57
SPEAKER_02: Well, it restores normal lubrication elasticity.
20:01
SPEAKER_02: And I need to ask you because I've just heard a rumor, which I'm assuming is true, is that in the UK, you can now get your local vaginal estrogen over the counter.
20:09
SPEAKER_01: You can.
20:10
SPEAKER_02: You do not need a prescription.
20:11
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you can.
20:11
SPEAKER_02: And just yet another reason to move to the UK.
20:14
Yes.
20:17
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we're all, all women should move to the UK for their vaginal estrogen.
20:23
SPEAKER_02: Well, seriously, US should take note and follow that lead because
20:29
SPEAKER_02: Episode 76 Episode 76 Episode 76
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SPEAKER_01: No, and honestly, it's like a miracle drug.
20:55
SPEAKER_01: My friend who told me about it is like, I'm taking this stuff until the day I die.
20:59
SPEAKER_01: As you should.
21:01
SPEAKER_02: But you know, I mentioned earlier that you don't-
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SPEAKER_02: Whenever they have painful sex, if they go to see someone, more often than not, they are told that this is because of vaginal dryness and they're given a prescription for maybe local vaginal estrogen along with lubricants and moisturizers.
23:45
SPEAKER_02: But there are many other reasons that women have painful sex.
23:49
SPEAKER_02: And in fact, I just published a very, very comprehensive article on all of the causes for painful sex in the over 50 crowd other than dryness.
23:58
SPEAKER_02: You're probably familiar with the journal Menopause.
24:00
SPEAKER_02: which is the Journal of the American Menopause Society.
24:07
SPEAKER_02: And a lot of times women are not examined.
24:12
SPEAKER_02: They go to see a doctor.
24:13
SPEAKER_02: They say it's painful.
24:14
SPEAKER_02: They're given a prescription for estrogen.
24:16
SPEAKER_02: It doesn't help.
24:17
SPEAKER_02: And they think it's hopeless.
24:19
SPEAKER_02: It didn't work for me.
24:21
SPEAKER_02: It's not that the estrogen didn't work, it's that that wasn't the problem.
24:25
SPEAKER_02: So I think the other thing that I want women to hear loud and clear is that if you are having pain with sex, it is likely to be dryness from lack of estrogen because that is the most likely culprit.
24:40
SPEAKER_02: But having said that,
24:41
SPEAKER_02: There are many other things that are treatable, that there are solutions.
24:47
SPEAKER_02: And if your own clinician, if your own doctor has not been helpful, it doesn't mean there aren't solutions.
24:53
SPEAKER_02: It just means you need to see someone who has more expertise.
24:57
SPEAKER_02: But that's why I'm writing my books.
24:58
SPEAKER_02: I mean, honestly, that's why I started my podcast.
25:00
SPEAKER_02: That's why I'm writing my books because women do not
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SPEAKER_02: What the Kinsey Report Left Out
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SPEAKER_02: What I have learned over the years of doing this and talking to women and getting out there is, yeah, in a perfect world, that would be lovely.
25:34
SPEAKER_02: But the majority of people in this country do not have access to a physician who knows how to do an appropriate exam, who knows how to counsel them, who knows how to tell them what to do.
25:47
SPEAKER_02: And with all things menopause, not just sexual.
25:49
SPEAKER_02: So telehealth can fill that gap.
25:52
SPEAKER_02: I think you know that I'm working with a company called Midi, M-I-D-I.
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SPEAKER_02: What the Kinsey Report Left Out
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SPEAKER_02: We partner and collaborate with medical centers and other doctors so that we can get you in the hands of someone that we trust who can actually do an exam.
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SPEAKER_02: So it's frustrating for women, but know that there are solutions out there.
26:27
SPEAKER_01: So what I see, I'm 62, Zoe's coming up to 60 and she's not there yet, is that we've got a lot of focus at the moment on menopause.
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SPEAKER_01: What can we do to support these women in the menopause?
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SPEAKER_01: And then once we get past the menopause, like me...
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SPEAKER_01: and there's a lot of attention placed on that and a friend of mine who's in her 60s who runs a psychotherapy matching platform said to me she said is have you noticed that when we turn 60 it's like everybody just forgets about us they they love to talk about the 50s and 60s they love to talk about all the stuff they can do to help these women who are experiencing all these symptoms
28:10
SPEAKER_01: But once we become, you know, on the other side of that, maybe we're not so symptomatic in that way, then there's nothing there.
28:19
SPEAKER_01: We are literally in the wilderness.
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SPEAKER_01: We are, we are ignored.
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SPEAKER_01: We are ignored by everyone.
28:27
SPEAKER_01: And frankly, I think they just want to neuter us at that point and just tell us to just go and sit somewhere and take up knitting and making suits.
28:36
SPEAKER_02: Well, because traditionally that's what used to happen.
28:39
SPEAKER_02: What we are looking at now is we have a life expectancy that's well into the 80s and 90s for most women.
28:44
SPEAKER_02: Given the average age of menopause is 51, many women are significantly younger.
28:48
SPEAKER_02: There are women who are living over half their lives post-menopause.
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SPEAKER_02: But to your point, when I was doing this big article, this research article that I published in Menopause about causes of pain with intercourse,
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SPEAKER_02: and that are sometimes even going to cause trouble but yet we have a lot of people who are putting themselves out there as experts and taking advantage of the fact that menopause is having a moment because let's face it there's a lot of money to be made this is a huge portion of the population and this happens to be the people that have money the 20 year olds generally don't have money yeah but if someone's going to have money likely they're going to be over 50 so that really again
30:15
SPEAKER_02: puts the responsibility on women to figure out what's real and what's not.
30:21
SPEAKER_02: And it's difficult because there is so much junk out there.
30:25
SPEAKER_02: And I mean junk.
30:25
SPEAKER_02: I usually use the word goop.
30:27
SPEAKER_02: There's so much goop out there that they don't know what works and what doesn't work.
30:32
SPEAKER_02: And I look at that as my job.
30:33
SPEAKER_02: I mean, that's what I do.
30:34
SPEAKER_02: It's like I have two criteria when I recommend something.
30:36
SPEAKER_02: Is it safe and is it effective?
30:38
SPEAKER_02: and then there's the third group which is the biggest group that says we have no clue it's never been studied people anecdotal information and testimonials are not science it means nothing and that's why people like you and me have to get out there and continue to spread the word that no if you you know eat broccoli it is not going to quote balance your hormones but that's what you'll learn on TikTok
31:04
SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for saying so, Dr. Stryker.
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SPEAKER_00: It's an interesting time to be alive, and it's certainly an interesting time to be a woman, and it's an interesting time to be a menopausal woman trying to have sex and take care of her body.
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SPEAKER_00: I'm curious if you could sum up for
31:28
SPEAKER_00: For women, men who have sex with women, for a woman in her 60s, 70s, late 50s who is dealing with menopause and trying to maintain a healthy relationship with sex, with her partner, with her body,
31:53
SPEAKER_00: What are like, you know, and there's feels overwhelmed by what's happening internally and also sort of externally in terms of information.
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SPEAKER_00: What are like just two or three things that you would want women to know about this time in their lives?
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SPEAKER_02: Yeah, well, the number one thing, of course, is that there are solutions to these obstacles.
32:18
SPEAKER_02: And if you don't have the solution, it doesn't mean that it's not there.
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SPEAKER_02: It just
32:22
SPEAKER_02: You need to do a little extra work to get there.
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SPEAKER_02: But there are a couple of very specific things.
32:27
SPEAKER_02: One thing that is
32:28
SPEAKER_02: hugely important in this time of life is sleep.
32:32
SPEAKER_02: I cannot emphasize that enough.
32:34
SPEAKER_02: People are not sleeping.
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SPEAKER_02: If you don't sleep, when you see the pillow, you're not thinking of sex.
32:40
SPEAKER_02: You're thinking maybe tonight's going to be the night that I'm going to get some sleep.
32:43
SPEAKER_02: And so when women would come to see me in my sexual medicine clinic, I ran a sexual medicine clinic at Northwestern for the last seven years.
32:50
SPEAKER_02: And when they would say, I have no libido, I'm
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SPEAKER_02: Within 10 years of the menopause transition or between ages 50 and 60, you will have a 22% decrease in breast cancer.
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SPEAKER_02: The small increase in breast cancer that was seen in the Women's Health Initiative years ago was only in the group that was taking a synthetic progesterone.
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SPEAKER_02: That has not been shown in women who are taking a micronized progesterone.
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SPEAKER_02: And so you really do need to do your own homework and to learn about what your options are, what you can do.
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SPEAKER_02: And then sometimes that means going to your own doctor to say, listen, I heard this podcast, I read this book, and I would like a prescription for local vaginal estrogen.
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SPEAKER_02: He or she will write that prescription.
34:58
SPEAKER_02: I can guarantee you they might not bring it up.
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SPEAKER_02: And consistently, 90% of the women that showed up in our clinic were self-referred.
36:35
SPEAKER_02: They were not sent by their doctors.
36:37
SPEAKER_02: They were not sent by a nurse practitioner.
36:39
SPEAKER_02: They found their way on their own.
36:41
SPEAKER_02: Many of them had read my books or heard my podcast.
36:43
SPEAKER_02: But the point is, is their doctors were not referring them.
36:48
SPEAKER_02: And that's just the reality.
36:49
SPEAKER_02: And that's why, yeah, it's about finding an expert.
36:52
SPEAKER_02: It's about using telehealth that you can trust.
36:56
SPEAKER_02: And it's about educating yourself.
36:58
SPEAKER_00: Taking ownership, right?
37:00
SPEAKER_00: Taking ownership of our bodies, of our vaginas, of our sexuality, of our well-being.
37:07
SPEAKER_02: which starts with reproductive rights, but that's another topic and I try not to get too political too often.
37:12
SPEAKER_01: Well, you know what they say, as Leah Shafe said, if we don't do it, nobody else will.
37:16
SPEAKER_01: So there you go.
37:17
SPEAKER_01: That's right.
37:20
SPEAKER_01: It's been so lovely to speak to you.
37:21
SPEAKER_01: I could speak to you for another two hours.
37:24
SPEAKER_02: We'll just have to do this again, right?
37:26
SPEAKER_01: We will.
37:27
SPEAKER_01: So many topics.
37:29
SPEAKER_01: Listen, this is like Episode 76 or something, and people just say, I can't believe that you still have stuff to talk about.
37:37
SPEAKER_01: It's like, look, there is no shortage of stuff to talk about.
37:40
SPEAKER_01: No end.
37:41
SPEAKER_01: No end.
37:42
SPEAKER_02: I have a list.
37:43
SPEAKER_02: My podcast, I think, is about Episode 150 or 160, and I have a long list of people I want to talk to, including you guys and topics.
37:53
SPEAKER_02: But what I'm also finding, and as you have more episodes, you will find the same, is that
37:58
SPEAKER_02: What the Kinsey Report Left Out
38:21
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we'll keep your bladder in control.
38:24
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
38:26
SPEAKER_01: I just want a sponsorship deal from them and then I'll keep saying it forever.
38:31
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you know, I don't actually take sponsorship.
38:34
SPEAKER_02: I make no money from my podcast.
38:36
SPEAKER_02: I lose money on my podcast.
38:38
SPEAKER_01: Well, we don't either.
38:39
SPEAKER_02: It's because of people think, and it's not true.
38:42
SPEAKER_02: If I had sponsorship, I would only take sponsorship from trusted pharmaceuticals that I, but people don't think that.
38:48
SPEAKER_02: They think that if someone is
38:50
SPEAKER_02: What the Kinsey Report Left Out Podcast featuring Zoe Kors, Suzanne Noble titled Episode 76 What the Kinsey Report Left Out Podcast featuring Zoe Kors, Suzanne Noble titled Episode 76
39:03
SPEAKER_01: Well, I mean, I think there's another discussion about that.
39:06
SPEAKER_01: Personally, I think that there's a lot of bad stuff out there.
39:09
SPEAKER_01: And if you are promoting things that you believe in and that you know contribute in a positive way to female sexual health, I don't personally have a problem with it because all of this-
39:20
SPEAKER_01: What the Kinsey Report Left Out Podcast featuring Zoe Kors, Suzanne Noble titled Episode 76 What the Kinsey Report Left Out
39:47
SPEAKER_01: And of course, for those of you who haven't read the Kinsey Report, the Cosmo version is online and people can read that.
39:57
SPEAKER_01: And thank you.
39:59
SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
39:59
SPEAKER_01: My pleasure.
40:00
SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much, Dr. Straker.