Latest / The Restaurant Guys / Martini Expo 2026 | Vol. 1: Toby Maloney, Jackson Cannon, Federico Lombardi & Dan Smith

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Martini Expo 2026 | Vol. 1: Toby Maloney, Jackson Cannon, Federico Lombardi & Dan Smith · The Restaurant Guys

• 0:42
  The Restaurant Guys: Hello everybody, and welcome.
• 0:43
  The Restaurant Guys: You are listening to The Restaurant Guys.
• 0:45
  The Restaurant Guys: I'm Mark Pascal, and I'm here with Francis Schott.
• 0:48
  The Restaurant Guys: Together, we own Stage Left and Capitol Lombardi Restaurants in New Brunswick, New Jersey.
• 0:52
  The Restaurant Guys: We're here to bring you the inside track on food, wine, And what?
• 0:56
  The Restaurant Guys: And the finer things in life.
• 0:58
  The Restaurant Guys: That's correct.
• 0:59
  The Restaurant Guys: You let me participate in the opening.
• 1:01
  The Restaurant Guys: You never let me do that.
• 1:02
  The Restaurant Guys: I'm very excited.
• 1:03
  The Restaurant Guys: It's a new day.
• 1:04
  The Restaurant Guys: Yeah, it's awesome.
• 1:04
  The Restaurant Guys: It's a new dawn, but you're never doing it again.
• 1:06
  The Restaurant Guys: Okay.
• 1:07
  The Restaurant Guys: Well, I'll, I'll, I'll relish this moment.
• 1:09
  The Restaurant Guys: Um, so today's show, uh, we're gonna come back on the other side of a short break, and, uh, we're gonna be talking to...
• 1:16
  The Restaurant Guys: It's, it's shows we recorded at the Martini Expo in Chicago.
• 1:20
  The Restaurant Guys: And today, we had some brief interviews with some cool people.
• 1:23
  The Restaurant Guys: Toby Maloney, who's an author and a bartender- Mm-hmm that we've known for a long time.
• 1:27
  Francis: chatted with Jackson Cannon who shaped the cocktail renaissance in Boston.
• 1:31
  The Restaurant Guys: Federico Lombardi, who is a bartender at Bar Paradiso.
• 1:34
  The Restaurant Guys: It was the number one bar in the world, He's now in the United States.
• 1:38
  The Restaurant Guys: Yep, he's come over.
• 1:39
  The Restaurant Guys: And Dan Smith, who's, owns The Queen Mary in Chicago, a local bar that's really a cut above in Chicago.
• 1:44
  The Restaurant Guys: We visited, yeah.
• 1:44
  The Restaurant Guys: Cool place.
• 1:45
  The Restaurant Guys: Mm.
• 1:46
  The Restaurant Guys: if I lived near The Queen Mary, I would be there all the time.
• 1:48
  The Restaurant Guys: Yes.
• 1:49
  The Restaurant Guys: Yeah.
• 1:49
  The Restaurant Guys: You, you spent a fair amount of time there, and you didn't live- Yeah, exactly you don't live near it.
• 1:52
  The Restaurant Guys: I may go back.
• 1:53
  The Restaurant Guys: I may go back.
• 1:55
  The Restaurant Guys: So while we were in Chicago, we stayed in a hotel, a M- Moxy hotel.
• 1:59
  The Restaurant Guys: Yeah.
• 1:59
  The Restaurant Guys: You know?
• 2:00
  The Restaurant Guys: I wanna tell you that I noticed something that you didn't notice.
• 2:03
  The Restaurant Guys: Okay.
• 2:04
  The Restaurant Guys: Go ahead.
• 2:04
  The Restaurant Guys: Stage Left Restaurant shares something in common with the Moxy in Chicago.
• 2:10
  The Restaurant Guys: Uh, the beautiful people in the lobby?
• 2:12
  The Restaurant Guys: Yes.
• 2:13
  The Restaurant Guys: Okay, what else?
• 2:14
  The Restaurant Guys: Uh, we have the same wallpaper in our bathrooms.
• 2:18
  The Restaurant Guys: Oh.
• 2:19
  The Restaurant Guys: I did not ha- I did not see that.
• 2:21
  The Restaurant Guys: In the public bathrooms or in your, in your suites?
• 2:22
  The Restaurant Guys: In, in the public bathrooms.
• 2:23
  The Restaurant Guys: So, so we put in this really cool wallpaper about six months ago, and it's basically of monkeys smoking cigars and drinking vodka, and it's, it's a, it's just a, a great- It's fun little wallpaper.
• 2:36
  The Restaurant Guys: But Moxy in Chicago obviously thought it was a cool wallpaper too,'cause they put it up as well.
• 2:41
  The Restaurant Guys: Maybe they copied us.
• 2:42
  The Restaurant Guys: I think they definitely did.
• 2:43
  The Restaurant Guys: Yeah, yeah.
• 2:43
  The Restaurant Guys: Somebody was here with a camera.
• 2:44
  The Restaurant Guys: I like it.
• 2:45
  The Restaurant Guys: I think that's terrific.
• 2:46
  The Restaurant Guys: So let's talk about the Moxy Hotel for a minute.
• 2:48
  The Restaurant Guys: Mm.
• 2:48
  The Restaurant Guys: I, I think it's more a hotel for me than for you.
• 2:51
  The Restaurant Guys: Um- I'm sure of it but it's, I mean, it's a, I think it's an interesting concept.
• 2:55
  The Restaurant Guys: It's a Marriott property, and they're often in unique locations, and they're often very affordable, but they're very small.
• 3:01
  The Restaurant Guys: They're not quite the pod hotels.
• 3:03
  The Restaurant Guys: Yeah.
• 3:03
  The Restaurant Guys: They're trendy.
• 3:04
  The Restaurant Guys: You can play foosball in the lobby.
• 3:05
  The Restaurant Guys: You can get a good taco, but the rooms are quite small, like no shelving or- You, you know what I felt like?
• 3:10
  The Restaurant Guys: What?
• 3:10
  The Restaurant Guys: What, yeah.
• 3:11
  The Restaurant Guys: I'll, I'll tell you what I felt like.
• 3:13
  The Restaurant Guys: I felt like Marshall in How I Met Your Brother.
• 3:15
  The Restaurant Guys: He did a little skit on he could never go back to a bodega after being in Costco because the size of the aisles.
• 3:23
  The Restaurant Guys: Yeah, yeah.
• 3:23
  The Restaurant Guys: I, I felt like I, I could never go back to a Moxy because I'm too big- It's funny, I, I- for the, for the aisles of the Moxy.
• 3:31
  The Restaurant Guys: I walk in, and I'm one of those guys who like it...
• 3:32
  The Restaurant Guys: I'm not going to lounge in my room, so I will go for inexpensive accommodations, right?
• 3:37
  The Restaurant Guys: Mm-hmm.
• 3:37
  The Restaurant Guys: Uh, and I walked into my hotel room.
• 3:39
  The Restaurant Guys: I've stayed at Moxys before, uh, in Europe and here.
• 3:41
  The Restaurant Guys: Mm-hmm.
• 3:42
  The Restaurant Guys: I have never stayed in one with you, though.
• 3:44
  The Restaurant Guys: And I, I, I walked into my room and I thought,"Oh, you know, I don't think Mark's gonna like this too much." Well, I walked into there with Jennifer.
• 3:52
  The Restaurant Guys: Yeah.
• 3:53
  The Restaurant Guys: And- Yeah, you and somebody else.
• 3:55
  The Restaurant Guys: The rooms are not big enough.
• 3:57
  The Restaurant Guys: So that's, uh- And we did a lot of, um,"E- excuse me, I need to get by you.""Excuse me.
• 4:02
  The Restaurant Guys: Excuse me." Well-"Excuse me, I'd like to wash my face.
• 4:05
  The Restaurant Guys: Excuse me." Well, if you're a little smaller than you- and with someone you like a l- you know, very, very well, maybe it can work.
• 4:12
  The Restaurant Guys: But if you're hanging out alone in a city, I recommend the Moxys pretty highly.
• 4:16
  The Restaurant Guys: Enjoyed it a great deal.
• 4:17
  The Restaurant Guys: We love Chicago, and now we're gonna bring you On a little trip with us.
• 4:22
  TM Video: the first, uh...
• 4:23
  MIC3: the first OG bartender we have pulled out of the Martini Expo here in Chicago is my old friend Toby Maloney.
• 4:29
  MIC3: Um, Toby was the longtime owner of The Violet Hour in Chicago, one of the most important bars in the history of the cocktail.
• 4:36
  MIC3: After 18 years, They are no longer,, open.
• 4:39
  MIC3: He is the author of The Bartender's Manifesto.
• 4:41
  MIC3: His current book is The Classic Cocktail Sessions.
• 4:44
  MIC3: He has a new bar called The Elbow Room in Vancouver, Washington that we'll talk about.
• 4:49
  MIC3: We go way back to the days of Milk Honey and the Pegu Club with Sa- Sasha and Audrey and The Flatiron Lounge.
• 4:56
  MIC3: It was, we were, we were there at the be- you were there at the beginning, man.
• 4:59
  MIC2: I was.
• 5:00
  MIC2: I lucked into the very beginning.
• 5:02
  MIC2: I was the first bartender hired at Milk Honey I- Wow in February or March of 2000, and it was all because I had bought a hat at a thrift store.
• 5:12
  MIC2: I found this, Borsalino San Marino cool stingy Brin hat, and then all of a sudden I started dressing like I was a Chicago gangster.
• 5:19
  MIC2: And so when I walked into Milk Honey, Sasha and I just immediately got each other.
• 5:24
  MIC3: So- Are you serious.
• 5:26
  MIC2: serious.
• 5:26
  MIC3: That's amazing.
• 5:28
  MIC3: A$5
• 5:28
  MIC2: Oh, that's fantastic.
• 5:28
  MIC2: A$5 hat is why I'm sitting in this particular...
• 5:30
  MIC1: fantastic.
• 5:31
  MIC1: I, I do better as the New Jersey gangster, but,
• 5:33
  TM Video: you know, Ooh, yeah...that's, uh, part
• 5:34
  MIC1: part of the
• 5:35
  TM Video: the aesthetic.
• 5:35
  TM Video: I carried
• 5:36
  MIC2: own shakers cause I did metal on metal when everybody was doing glass on metal, and I carried them
• 5:40
  TM Video: in a violin case.
• 5:42
  MIC3: I love that.
• 5:43
  TM Video: I love that.
• 5:43
  MIC3: by the way, does look like the New
• 5:44
  TM Video: Jersey
• 5:45
  MIC3: I used to drive a little white
• 5:46
  TM Video: sports car.
• 5:47
  TM Video: Mm.
• 5:47
  MIC3: there was one time where he had to drive my sports car somewhere, and
• 5:50
  TM Video: he had a
• 5:50
  MIC3: long leather,
• 5:52
  TM Video: black trench coat,
• 5:53
  MIC3: and this big man got out
• 5:54
  TM Video: of this little
• 5:55
  MIC3: car, and you were like,"Oh my God,
• 5:56
  TM Video: he's gonna kill me."
• 5:57
  MIC2: "Oh my God, he's gonna kill me." Right?
• 5:58
  MIC2: Yeah.
• 5:58
  MIC2: Yeah.
• 5:58
  TM Video: He's- to
• 5:59
  MIC2: cannolis and the guns
• 6:00
  TM Video: in the car.
• 6:00
  TM Video: Yeah, exactly.
• 6:01
  MIC1: cannolis and the guns in the car.
• 6:01
  MIC1: Yeah exactly.
• 6:01
  MIC1: I you know, I was so
• 6:02
  TM Video: happy when we went
• 6:03
  MIC1: metal on metal, when that finally caught on, because I always like
• 6:08
  TM Video: making my drinks in metal because the
• 6:10
  MIC1: told you how
• 6:11
  TM Video: cold the drink
• 6:12
  MIC2: And what it sounded
• 6:13
  TM Video: like.
• 6:13
  MIC1: That's what it sounds like.
• 6:13
  MIC1: Right?
• 6:13
  MIC1: You gave, it gave you, uh, something the glass never gave you, information-wise.
• 6:18
  MIC1: Yeah.
• 6:18
  MIC1: Right?
• 6:18
  MIC1: Glass-wise, you could see what you're pouring but
• 6:20
  TM Video: a lot of us were measuring what we
• 6:21
  MIC1: what we were pouring anyway.
• 6:23
  MIC1: so that I thought that was a great
• 6:24
  TM Video: move and it's, and I'm so glad that's- Yeah the way things are now.
• 6:27
  TM Video: There are certain places in the world that
• 6:29
  MIC2: actually called Toby tins- Oh, right because I introduced metal on metal to Sasha.
• 6:34
  MIC2: Sasha took
• 6:34
  TM Video: it to England and Australia, so parts of the world- I love it
• 6:38
  MIC1: Oh, that's terrific
• 6:39
  TM Video: story.
• 6:39
  TM Video: Yes.
• 6:39
  TM Video: Dude, Toby, one
• 6:40
  MIC3: of the things
• 6:41
  TM Video: of the things that, that people don't realize, I know you must do this too, but my staff, I mean, we got, we got the first cold draft ice machine in Jersey in, like, 50 years, right Yeah.
• 6:51
  TM Video: Mm-hmm.
• 6:51
  TM Video: And we put it in, we changed to cold draft ice, and my staff...
• 6:54
  TM Video: What year was that?
• 6:54
  TM Video: That was when we opened up the bar.
• 6:56
  TM Video: That was five,
• 6:56
  MIC1: probably right, it was r- right before
• 6:58
  TM Video: Capital Brewery.
• 6:58
  TM Video: And,
• 6:59
  MIC3: was probably right- Yeah or right before Catherine.
• 6:59
  MIC3: And, uh, the staff
• 6:59
  TM Video: complained of
• 7:00
  MIC3: then, and, and
• 7:00
  TM Video: then of course a
• 7:02
  MIC3: later they were like,"We
• 7:03
  TM Video: can't use anything but this ice."
• 7:04
  MIC3: ice." Right.
• 7:04
  MIC3: Totally.
• 7:05
  TM Video: And, uh,
• 7:05
  MIC3: you walk into a bar
• 7:06
  TM Video: and you just hear
• 7:07
  MIC3: shaker.
• 7:08
  MIC3: Mm-hmm.
• 7:08
  MIC3: You hear the co- and you're
• 7:09
  TM Video: like,"Shit ice.
• 7:09
  TM Video: This place has shit ice." Yeah.
• 7:10
  TM Video: Right.
• 7:11
  TM Video: You can hear the difference in the ice.
• 7:12
  TM Video: Mm-hmm.
• 7:13
  TM Video: I, I, it literally- I mean, I'm sure you've experienced
• 7:15
  MIC1: hear the difference in the ice It's, I, w- it literally, I mean, I'm sure you experience the same thing.
• 7:15
  MIC1: We talk about it all the- time.
• 7:16
  MIC1: you walk into a place
• 7:18
  TM Video: And,
• 7:18
  MIC1: the sound of the ice
• 7:19
  TM Video: shaking tells you whether or not you're gonna get a good drink or not.
• 7:22
  TM Video: Yeah.
• 7:22
  TM Video: Yeah.
• 7:22
  TM Video: And, and the-
• 7:23
  MIC1: you haven't even you haven't even opened a menu-...or looked at a a cocktail or looked at glassware.
• 7:27
  TM Video: The sound of the ice shaking.
• 7:28
  TM Video: Yeah.
• 7:29
  TM Video: Do you
• 7:29
  MIC2: Have you found that?
• 7:29
  MIC2: Yeah, 100%.
• 7:30
  MIC2: I mean, we're to the point at Violet Hour, we always
• 7:33
  TM Video: when we tr-
• 7:34
  MIC2: people, they always had five
• 7:36
  TM Video: pieces
• 7:36
  MIC2: ice, and one of the things they would do is they'd get a big scoop.
• 7:40
  MIC2: They'd throw away all of the crap ice until they had five great things.
• 7:44
  MIC2: put that in, start shaking.
• 7:45
  MIC2: And because that was one of the few things you can absolutely always control, and you could always know what the sound
• 7:50
  TM Video: is,
• 7:50
  MIC2: you always know what the water content is, and you get to hear that sound.
• 7:53
  MIC2: And one of the first days we were doing that, someone- I was like, About three people down, you've got seven, maybe eight pieces
• 8:01
  MIC1: in your drink." And they totally counted it and
• 8:02
  MIC2: opened it and counted it, and everybody was
• 8:04
  TM Video: like, Whoa." I, I I did that, to a bartender just the other night.
• 8:07
  TM Video: And you don't, I don't know that you know this, but I'm walking by and Marcus is a new bartender who's training behind the bar, and he goes to shake it and I go like,"There's not enough ice in that tin." Yeah.
• 8:14
  TM Video: He's like,"What
• 8:15
  MIC3: do you mean?" It's like,
• 8:15
  TM Video: There's not enough ice
• 8:16
  MIC3: that I'm gonna open it
• 8:17
  TM Video: up show...
• 8:17
  TM Video: I mean, I,
• 8:17
  MIC3: I
• 8:18
  TM Video: just, I hear it.
• 8:18
  TM Video: They tell you.
• 8:19
  TM Video: you.
• 8:19
  TM Video: know.
• 8:19
  TM Video: You know.
• 8:20
  TM Video: That's amazing.
• 8:21
  TM Video: just to talk about ice just for one more second.
• 8:22
  TM Video: Yeah, yeah.
• 8:23
  TM Video: The
• 8:24
  MIC1: The
• 8:24
  TM Video: other thing that we had to do when we converted to the cold draft ice machine is change all our cocktail recipes.
• 8:30
  TM Video: Um- 100%, Yeah.
• 8:31
  TM Video: Just you have to realize that depending on what you're shaking with is gonna change the water content- Sure.
• 8:37
  TM Video: Less water,
• 8:37
  MIC3: more
• 8:37
  TM Video: more cold, of your cocktail.
• 8:38
  TM Video: You know?
• 8:38
  TM Video: Yeah.
• 8:39
  TM Video: One of the things in that that I still...
• 8:42
  TM Video: It, it changes so much that it, it amazes me.
• 8:45
  TM Video: I'll watch bartenders, and they'll be making a daiquiri and a Tom Collins, and they'll shake both of them the same.
• 8:51
  TM Video: Yeah.
• 8:52
  TM Video: Right.
• 8:53
  TM Video: But
• 8:53
  MIC2: all of your water
• 8:54
  TM Video: content's already in your glass in a co- in a Tom Collins, where you need all your water content.
• 8:58
  TM Video: So like, yeah, I mean, dilution and that water and, and being able to hear the ice, which is giving you that most important part of cocktails-
• 9:06
  MIC2: is of utmost importance
• 9:07
  MIC3: dilution and, that water and and being able to hear the ice, which is giving you that most important part of a cocktail is of utmost importance.
• 9:08
  MIC3: W- well, so a lot of our listenership is, is real cocktail enthusiasts and food
• 9:11
  TM Video: enthusiasts.
• 9:12
  TM Video: We
• 9:12
  MIC3: a lot of
• 9:12
  TM Video: vets in the industry, but we also have some people who, you know, aren't, maybe aren't as conversant or, and are just, are enamored of Mark and my, uh, playful banter-
• 9:19
  MIC3: um, but also are, are, curious about,
• 9:21
  TM Video: cocktails in the world.
• 9:22
  TM Video: Why don't you tell people a little bit about
• 9:24
  MIC3: Violet Hour, your
• 9:24
  TM Video: amazing bar that, that we see this?
• 9:26
  TM Video: yes, we opened up June 27th of 2007.
• 9:30
  TM Video: I'd been working in Mil- like all of these cocktail bars, these true craft cocktail bars in New York.
• 9:37
  TM Video: Right.
• 9:37
  TM Video: Um, we opened,
• 9:39
  MIC2: w-
• 9:39
  TM Video: I had these amazing business partners who had great bars and restaurants in town.
• 9:45
  TM Video: Um, and we opened up with the coups and the ice and no standing and no phones, even though it was still flip phones, like you couldn't Yep thumb on your phone in there.
• 9:55
  TM Video: guys couldn't wear hats inside.
• 9:57
  TM Video: Uh, there was no Bud Light or there was no light beer of any kind.
• 10:00
  TM Video: There was no Grey Goose.
• 10:01
  TM Video: We had one vodka called Luxaris.
• 10:04
  TM Video: Um, we had no olives or cranberry juice, and people fucking hated us.
• 10:08
  TM Video: Yes.
• 10:08
  MIC2: Yeah.
• 10:09
  MIC2: Pardon my language, but, like-
• 10:11
  MIC3: was in revolt.
• 10:12
  TM Video: Yeah.
• 10:13
  TM Video: like- I would say for the first little bit, like, half of the people easily would just sit there and sputter because we- didn't do anything that they were used to.
• 10:21
  TM Video: Yeah.
• 10:22
  TM Video: And so how did you win over Chicago?
• 10:23
  TM Video: Because obviously, you, you know,
• 10:25
  MIC3: you m- what I say about your 18-year run, mission
• 10:27
  TM Video: accomplished, sir.
• 10:28
  TM Video: Yeah.
• 10:29
  TM Video: Thank you.
• 10:29
  TM Video: You know?
• 10:29
  TM Video: Yeah, it was- So
• 10:30
  MIC3: how did, how did, it
• 10:31
  TM Video: change
• 10:31
  MIC3: how did
• 10:31
  TM Video: c- how did you come to bring the cocktail, uh, gospel to Chicago?
• 10:36
  TM Video: Because, my business partners had all of these bars and restaurants, all of their staff started coming in, and cooks, servers, other bartenders immediately got it.
• 10:45
  TM Video: Mm-hmm.
• 10:46
  TM Video: Mm-hmm.
• 10:47
  TM Video: Like, and then they would tell their good clients and the good people and good guests, be like, If, you know, if you're going for a drink after this dinner, you need to go to this place." So they would only send the people who were already going to get it.
• 10:58
  TM Video: Yeah.
• 10:58
  TM Video: 'Cause they were probably gonna end up there after their shift anyway.
• 11:00
  TM Video: They didn't wanna end up at the others.
• 11:02
  TM Video: Um, and so over time...
• 11:03
  TM Video: And then more And more you know, the, the folks from Alinea were some of our early adopters, Mm.
• 11:09
  TM Video: Yeah.
• 11:09
  TM Video: and so that was helpful.
• 11:10
  TM Video: Um, and we stuck to our guns.
• 11:13
  TM Video: We didn't try to dumb it down or water it down, Over water it down, Um- But-...in any way, and we just, you know, had that line in the sand, and we survived for 18 years, You know,
• 11:25
  MIC1: but, but I wanna still talk to you about, You, you're making it sound like Violet Hour
• 11:29
  TM Video: was not a convivial- It's been-...friendly place, but because it was.
• 11:35
  MIC1: And I think I re- I remember going there early on, and it was really when that battle of mixology
• 11:43
  TM Video: bartender thing was happening, and
• 11:47
  MIC1: there were two types
• 11:48
  TM Video: of people calling themselves mixologists.
• 11:51
  TM Video: And one were strictly technicians, and I remember coming to
• 11:54
  MIC1: bar in Chicago at that,
• 11:56
  TM Video: that same trip, the, the first trip I made to Chicago, and
• 12:00
  MIC1: bartenders were head down.
• 12:01
  TM Video: They
• 12:01
  MIC1: look you.
• 12:02
  MIC1: in the eye.
• 12:03
  TM Video: They didn't say hello to you.
• 12:04
  TM Video: They, they made your drink.
• 12:05
  TM Video: Somebody took your order
• 12:06
  MIC1: and
• 12:07
  TM Video: took it to the
• 12:08
  MIC1: mixologist
• 12:09
  TM Video: who was,
• 12:09
  MIC1: They weren't behind a curtain, but they might
• 12:11
  TM Video: as well have been.
• 12:11
  TM Video: Yeah.
• 12:11
  TM Video: they they were set, they weren't, they weren't in front of you.
• 12:13
  TM Video: Right.
• 12:13
  TM Video: They were a step back.
• 12:14
  TM Video: Yeah.
• 12:14
  TM Video: they
• 12:14
  MIC1: they were set away
• 12:15
  TM Video: from you.
• 12:16
  TM Video: And it was so no- not
• 12:18
  MIC1: I thought of when I
• 12:19
  TM Video: thought of a bartender.
• 12:21
  MIC1: And then
• 12:22
  TM Video: Violet Hour was kind
• 12:24
  MIC1: that other side of the
• 12:25
  TM Video: the coin was, Hey, we're, we're...
• 12:27
  TM Video: we have our, our
• 12:28
  MIC1: standards, and we're gonna
• 12:29
  TM Video: gonna be strict about our standards, and, but you're
• 12:33
  MIC1: here to have fun.
• 12:33
  MIC1: You're still here to, to have great cocktails.
• 12:36
  MIC1: I wanna
• 12:37
  TM Video: to what you.
• 12:37
  TM Video: have to say." I felt
• 12:39
  MIC1: like those two,
• 12:40
  TM Video: camps were fighting for the soul of what mixology was going to become,
• 12:45
  MIC1: And I'm happy to say Violet Hour won, that side of the coin won.
• 12:50
  MIC1: But I was worried.
• 12:51
  MIC1: I'm not gonna lie.
• 12:52
  MIC1: I was worried that we were
• 12:53
  TM Video: gonna lose what bartending really was.
• 12:57
  TM Video: Sure.
• 12:57
  TM Video: It, it's difficult, and people who go down that road into the, the world of mixology, like, you become this zealot.
• 13:05
  TM Video: You have this epiphany.
• 13:07
  TM Video: It is a religious experience when you first understand fresh juice- Mm-hmm and good vermouth and excellent ice and all these things, and you can't help but, like, wonder what the fuck's wrong with everybody else That's right.
• 13:19
  TM Video: You
• 13:19
  MIC1: Want to pros- you want to proselytize, right?
• 13:21
  MIC1: Absolutely.
• 13:21
  MIC1: That's- And that can be so difficult.
• 13:21
  MIC3: That's-
• 13:21
  TM Video: That's- And that can be so tiring.
• 13:23
  TM Video: Yeah.
• 13:24
  TM Video: Um, been there, done that.
• 13:25
  TM Video: Absolutely, I'm embarrassed by many of the things I've said in my career.
• 13:29
  TM Video: But, you know, that was the thing that we taught at Violet Hour is People are...
• 13:34
  TM Video: If you talk at these people about all of these things, you're going to lose them.
• 13:39
  MIC2: What we
• 13:40
  TM Video: do is we teach with enthusiasm.
• 13:41
  TM Video: We talk about things that we're enthusiastic about.
• 13:44
  TM Video: And if you're telling somebody something that you're enthusiastic about, you cannot be pretentious.
• 13:49
  TM Video: Mm-hmm.
• 13:49
  TM Video: and so, that brings the fun and keeps everything
• 13:52
  MIC2: and easy and,
• 13:53
  TM Video: light and easy.
• 13:54
  TM Video: Well, I think also you guys delivered in a way that was like hospitality.
• 13:56
  TM Video: Look, I
• 13:57
  MIC3: you served me drinks at Milk Honey,
• 13:58
  TM Video: So we've known each other for a long time.
• 14:00
  TM Video: Mm-hmm.
• 14:00
  TM Video: You are always- hospitality
• 14:01
  MIC3: and
• 14:01
  TM Video: And Peyot.
• 14:02
  TM Video: And Peyot, Yeah.
• 14:02
  TM Video: you're always hospitality first, I think that's great.
• 14:04
  TM Video: But
• 14:04
  MIC3: one of the things
• 14:05
  TM Video: you really accomplished, I think, at The Violet Hour, was there was a style.
• 14:09
  TM Video: And
• 14:09
  MIC3: I'm, I, I don't wanna stay on this
• 14:11
  TM Video: too long'cause I wanna talk about what you're doing now and the Martini, uh, Expo that we're at.
• 14:14
  TM Video: Um, but you know, the
• 14:16
  MIC3: influence of The Violet Hour on the culture overall is
• 14:19
  TM Video: undeniable.
• 14:20
  TM Video: Yeah.
• 14:20
  TM Video: I mean, last night at the...
• 14:22
  TM Video: At, We did a circle and all of the bartenders who were doing the Martini Expo, Yeah.
• 14:26
  TM Video: and I happened to be the first person, and I said, Hi, I'm Toby Cecchini, and I opened The Violet Hour." Um, and then Toby Cecchini was standing next to me and goes,"That's actually not true.
• 14:34
  TM Video: I'm Toby Cecchini."
• 14:35
  MIC2: But, um,
• 14:36
  TM Video: but then as they went around, people were like, Oh, and I, my name is this, and I worked at The Violet Hour." And so other than me, five other people in that group had gone through The Violet Hour.
• 14:46
  TM Video: I love that.
• 14:47
  MIC3: hopefully this makes you happy.
• 14:49
  TM Video: occasionally in the restaurant, I don't know if even Mark even knows this, the Violet Hour
• 14:53
  MIC3: Spotify playlist-...is
• 14:55
  TM Video: is still active.
• 14:55
  TM Video: So occasionally- Oh, that's
• 14:57
  MIC3: That was me......I think of you.
• 14:58
  MIC3: And we play The Violet Hour playlist at the
• 15:00
  TM Video: the restaurant.
• 15:00
  TM Video: That's super cool.
• 15:01
  TM Video: That's like, oh, I
• 15:02
  MIC3: Yeah.
• 15:02
  MIC3: Yeah.
• 15:02
  TM Video: Yeah.
• 15:02
  TM Video: Grand stuff.
• 15:03
  TM Video: All right.
• 15:04
  TM Video: So, talk to us about your new bar, The Elbow Room, in Vancouver, Washington,'cause I don't know anything about that, and we-
• 15:10
  MIC1: cause we've never heard of
• 15:10
  TM Video: Vancouver, Washington, So help us.
• 15:12
  TM Video: Neither, neither had I.
• 15:13
  TM Video: Um, back in like 1995, I took a job on the corner of North Damen and Milwaukee at a place called Soul Kitchen.
• 15:21
  TM Video: I was an oyster shucker, It was called Soul Kitchen.
• 15:24
  TM Video: It was with, uh, like Terry Alexander, who's One Off Hospitality here in Chicago, and the chef was Monique King.
• 15:31
  TM Video: And I was behind the I was the oyster shucker, and I was behind the line, so I was with all the cooks instead of with the bartenders and servers and such.
• 15:39
  TM Video: And Mo and I just got along wonderfully.
• 15:41
  TM Video: She's an amazing human being, and to this day, my favorite chef.
• 15:45
  TM Video: Love it.
• 15:45
  TM Video: I've eaten all over the world.
• 15:46
  TM Video: I've eaten all sorts of great things.
• 15:48
  TM Video: She's gonna make my, death row meal.
• 15:50
  TM Video: Your last meal?
• 15:50
  TM Video: Yeah.
• 15:50
  TM Video: Yeah.
• 15:51
  TM Video: Her shrimp and grits, absolutely.
• 15:53
  TM Video: so she moved to LA.
• 15:55
  TM Video: I moved to New York.
• 15:56
  TM Video: She's been a chef, with her, husband, Paul, and I went to New York and did cocktails, and then her
• 16:06
  MIC2: younger
• 16:07
  TM Video: younger brother found this'70s diner.
• 16:10
  TM Video: Oh.
• 16:10
  TM Video: And that's kind of what they did in LA was they found these old diners.
• 16:13
  TM Video: They fixed them up and made great food in them.
• 16:18
  TM Video: Well, this diner happened to have a'70s bar in the back, and she said,"Will you come out and look and see if you wanna consult or something?" I walked in.
• 16:25
  MIC2: I
• 16:25
  TM Video: was in love.
• 16:26
  TM Video: It is- Love it...it is a magical room.
• 16:28
  TM Video: It has barely been touched since 1970.
• 16:30
  TM Video: I love it.
• 16:31
  TM Video: it's magical.
• 16:32
  TM Video: So I moved out there for almost a year, and we gutted it.
• 16:39
  TM Video: Um, well, that's not true.
• 16:40
  TM Video: We changed the...
• 16:41
  TM Video: Like, we changed all of the equipment'cause that was terrible.
• 16:44
  TM Video: We took two layers of carpet that went all the way under the bar into the bar, Um- I love it.
• 16:50
  TM Video: and then we wiped all the cigarette smoke off of it and restarted.
• 16:56
  TM Video: A, a carpeted bar is almost always a bad idea.
• 16:58
  TM Video: Yeah.
• 16:58
  TM Video: Always.
• 16:59
  TM Video: It is
• 16:59
  MIC1: it's the worst.
• 16:59
  MIC1: Especially behind
• 17:00
  TM Video: bad idea.
• 17:00
  TM Video: Especially behind the bar.
• 17:02
  TM Video: Oh, yeah.
• 17:03
  MIC3: bad.
• 17:03
  MIC3: So when did it open?
• 17:04
  MIC2: it opened
• 17:05
  TM Video: July
• 17:06
  MIC2: 4th of
• 17:07
  TM Video: last year.
• 17:08
  TM Video: And- So it's just about a year now...and how's it going?
• 17:10
  TM Video: It's great.
• 17:11
  TM Video: it w- got, on the long list of Beard new James Beard Award new bars.
• 17:17
  TM Video: We didn't make it to the That's okay.
• 17:19
  TM Video: the- long list is a pretty good.
• 17:20
  TM Video: list.
• 17:20
  TM Video: Yeah.
• 17:20
  TM Video: Yeah.
• 17:21
  TM Video: That's a, that's a great list to be on.
• 17:23
  TM Video: It's a pretty good list.
• 17:23
  TM Video: Um, and it's really interesting too, because it
• 17:26
  MIC2: it
• 17:26
  TM Video: it is this legacy bar.
• 17:28
  TM Video: It is not a mixology thing.
• 17:29
  TM Video: Like, there was Uh-huh...no way...
• 17:31
  TM Video: it...
• 17:31
  TM Video: I mean, it didn't make any sense to Right...take- all of these things, these mixology things, and, like, try to Mm...shoehorn it into this bar.
• 17:37
  TM Video: Right.
• 17:37
  TM Video: It is a taste.
• 17:38
  TM Video: Yeah.
• 17:38
  TM Video: Right?
• 17:38
  TM Video: So, we...
• 17:39
  TM Video: It's a free pour program.
• 17:40
  TM Video: So funnily enough, going back to that, like, getting people to use the our dice- Yeah was hard in the beginning, and then all of a sudden they switched.
• 17:47
  TM Video: Back when I was doing consulting in the early aughts, like, getting anybody to use a jigger was so hard, Yeah.
• 17:53
  TM Video: Yeah.
• 17:54
  TM Video: and now I'm doing co- this, like, free pour thing.
• 17:56
  TM Video: Getting them to free pour is so hard.
• 17:59
  TM Video: and Everybody wants to use the jigger.
• 18:00
  TM Video: So- So again, for the non-bartenders, there was a battle royale Oh, yeah...a long time.
• 18:03
  TM Video: ago.
• 18:03
  TM Video: Yeah.
• 18:04
  TM Video: when Marty and I started bartending, it was all free pour.
• 18:07
  TM Video: You never used a jigger.
• 18:08
  TM Video: Now only- You
• 18:09
  MIC1: a hack.
• 18:10
  MIC1: You were a hack
• 18:10
  TM Video: if you If you used a jigger you were an airport bartender.
• 18:12
  TM Video: Right.
• 18:12
  TM Video: Yeah.
• 18:13
  TM Video: and then and then Dale came in, Dale DeGroff came in and crafted the cocktail.
• 18:17
  TM Video: Those were all very carefully measured, and most people weren't really accurate pourers.
• 18:21
  TM Video: Mm.
• 18:21
  TM Video: And the, the drink would be different with different bartenders.
• 18:23
  TM Video: So craft cocktail bartenders started using jiggers.
• 18:26
  TM Video: And then, um- Well, also remember the old school client was like,"You're cheating me." You're, yeah, you're- Right?
• 18:30
  TM Video: Yeah,
• 18:31
  MIC1: My drink tastes
• 18:31
  TM Video: like shit, but you're cheating me." Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 18:33
  MIC2: tastes like shit, but you're cheating.
• 18:34
  MIC2: Yeah.
• 18:34
  MIC2: Yeah,
• 18:34
  MIC3: Okay.
• 18:34
  TM Video: Well, and then, and then there was the battle Royale.
• 18:36
  TM Video: Who was on the free pour side?
• 18:38
  TM Video: It was um...
• 18:38
  TM Video: Duchamp.
• 18:39
  TM Video: Duchamp.
• 18:39
  TM Video: Yeah.
• 18:40
  MIC3: then it was
• 18:40
  TM Video: Duchamp versus Dale because Duchamp was Captain Freeport And, Dale was Captain Jigger.
• 18:44
  TM Video: And, uh, you know, it, it's, It's,
• 18:46
  MIC3: um,
• 18:48
  TM Video: it...
• 18:48
  TM Video: Different applications have different needs.
• 18:50
  TM Video: Different- So if you're at a club, do not use a jigger, right?
• 18:52
  TM Video: Absolutely.
• 18:53
  MIC3: in a craft cocktail bar, use
• 18:54
  TM Video: a jigger.
• 18:54
  TM Video: and I think
• 18:55
  MIC3: hysterical what you say
• 18:56
  TM Video: is people get in this camp- Mm about the whole thing.
• 18:59
  TM Video: Totally.
• 18:59
  TM Video: And, you know, s- we still use the jigger sometimes.
• 19:02
  TM Video: If you're making something that, If you're making a Core Survivor Number Two that has Right a bunch of really- Yeah intense ingredients, use a jigger.
• 19:10
  TM Video: Right.
• 19:10
  TM Video: For sure.
• 19:11
  TM Video: But there's no world that you need to use a jigger to make a Long Island Iced Tea or- Yeah, There is no world.
• 19:18
  TM Video: a tequila Or something.
• 19:18
  TM Video: There's no world that that happens.
• 19:18
  TM Video: there There is no world But, you know, even if you are making, you know...
• 19:23
  TM Video: We had this experience not that long ago where, where we did a, uh, now what's the one with Peach, schnapps, uh- Um, yeah, uh, Sex on the Beach No.
• 19:31
  TM Video: Uh, ooh.
• 19:32
  TM Video: no.
• 19:32
  TM Video: No, the first one.
• 19:34
  TM Video: you know too many.
• 19:34
  TM Video: Fuzzy navel.
• 19:34
  TM Video: Fuzzy navel.
• 19:34
  TM Video: Woo! Nice job.
• 19:34
  TM Video: Love this game.
• 19:35
  MIC3: Fuzzy
• 19:35
  MIC1: Fuzzy navel.
• 19:35
  MIC1: Thank
• 19:35
  MIC3: you go.
• 19:36
  MIC3: There you go.
• 19:37
  MIC3: That's great.
• 19:37
  TM Video: It's a game.
• 19:39
  TM Video: So even if you're using, making a fuzzy navel, when you use a, a fresh orange juice in there, that drinks way better.
• 19:45
  TM Video: Way better.
• 19:46
  TM Video: just this.
• 19:46
  TM Video: Yeah.
• 19:46
  TM Video: You use good peach schnapps-
• 19:48
  MIC1: it's Way better
• 19:49
  TM Video: way better.
• 19:49
  TM Video: You make a, Bacardi and Coke, but you use a, a Cuban rum and Mexican Coke- Throw- in a- way better throw in a lime And it's a couple of dashes and you're good, right?
• 19:57
  TM Video: Way better.
• 19:58
  TM Video: Yeah.
• 19:58
  TM Video: So, so even when you're making those basic cocktails that we were making back in the early'80s, mixology has had its effect on those drinks.
• 20:06
  TM Video: Yeah.
• 20:06
  TM Video: We've made
• 20:07
  MIC1: those drinks better
• 20:08
  MIC3: We've made
• 20:09
  TM Video: s- well, speaking of drinks, we are at the Martini Expo, so we
• 20:11
  MIC3: ask you a couple of martini
• 20:12
  TM Video: questions.
• 20:13
  TM Video: You ready?
• 20:13
  TM Video: Sure.
• 20:13
  TM Video: Yeah.
• 20:14
  TM Video: Okay.
• 20:14
  TM Video: So why is martini so important?
• 20:16
  TM Video: Why did you come to, to Chicago to, to be here participating in this cool thing?
• 20:20
  TM Video: Well, I have this new martini process thing that I figured out at The Elbow Room.
• 20:26
  TM Video: I was, before The Elbow Room.
• 20:27
  TM Video: I was...
• 20:28
  TM Video: in New York, I was opening a hotel.
• 20:30
  TM Video: Um, and they wanted me to make a freezer door martini.
• 20:33
  TM Video: and a freezer door is just, you put everything in one bottle.
• 20:36
  TM Video: Right.
• 20:36
  TM Video: And put it in the freezer.
• 20:37
  TM Video: And put it in the freezer- Yeah...and it's super cold.
• 20:38
  TM Video: The problem with that is once you get above about 5% dilution of any sort of water product into that bottle, it freezes completely.
• 20:47
  TM Video: So in my mind, that is nowhere near what a martini is.
• 20:52
  TM Video: A martini should have lots of vermouth.
• 20:54
  TM Video: It should have lots of water.
• 20:55
  TM Video: It should have some bitters.
• 20:56
  TM Video: It should be super cold.
• 20:57
  TM Video: So I've been banging my head against the wall for, like, almost a year, and then I'm at Paul's, which is the diner attached to The Elbow Room, and this woman server is making a float.
• 21:08
  TM Video: And I'm like,"Can I make a vermouth ice cream sorbet?" And I'm like, Yes..."No, I can't, but I can make a granita, Oh, yeah.
• 21:15
  TM Video: I was gonna say, you make it with sorbet or granita, sure Right.
• 21:18
  TM Video: So now what we do is we take, uh, vermouth, a little bit of Fino sherry, a bunch of water, a l- um, some bitters.
• 21:26
  TM Video: we put it in the freezer, and we make this granita.
• 21:28
  TM Video: And that I...
• 21:29
  TM Video: And then we have an ice cream scoop, and we scoop that out, throw it in a, in a glass that's not frozen, but in the fridge, and then we pour frozen gin over it.
• 21:39
  TM Video: We don't measure that as well.
• 21:40
  TM Video: We give it a little stir with an onion or, or Oh that.
• 21:44
  TM Video: And, Or maybe, um,
• 21:45
  MIC1: A
• 21:46
  TM Video: knew that.
• 21:47
  TM Video: I knew right when you said that.
• 21:49
  TM Video: Yeah.
• 21:49
  TM Video: Um, also with this one, onions turn into, like, snowballs.
• 21:53
  TM Video: Olives, when they get kind of cold, become chewy and gross.
• 21:56
  TM Video: Yeah.
• 21:56
  TM Video: Right.
• 21:57
  TM Video: But so we have this thing that's so 70s.
• 22:00
  TM Video: It's like the ice skating, the, the rink, skating rink martini, which was drank, the shaken thing.
• 22:05
  TM Video: Yeah, sure, Right?
• 22:06
  TM Video: the ice shards on top.
• 22:06
  TM Video: Yeah.
• 22:07
  TM Video: Right.
• 22:07
  TM Video: I remember those.
• 22:07
  TM Video: Yeah.
• 22:07
  TM Video: But this, the ice doesn't actually float in this because- It's part of it it's part of it.
• 22:12
  TM Video: Mm.
• 22:12
  TM Video: And it, and it's slippery.
• 22:14
  TM Video: Like, it, Texture-wise, the only thing I can think of is, like, Cowichan Sunset in sheep.
• 22:19
  TM Video: Like, it's, it's l- it's layers.
• 22:21
  TM Video: It's really, really interesting.
• 22:23
  TM Video: It doesn't crunch.
• 22:24
  TM Video: Um, and it's, you know, it's- and it's, vermouth flavored.
• 22:27
  TM Video: and it's vermouth flavored, and it's got the right amount of water content, Mm-hmm.
• 22:31
  TM Video: And it is eight degrees.
• 22:32
  TM Video: You could actually get a Dairy Queen headache drinking it too fast.
• 22:36
  TM Video: you know, then we put always a little lemon twist on top of it.
• 22:38
  TM Video: Just- Uh, just so you know, when it's martinis, I don't know that you can call it a Dairy Queen headache.
• 22:42
  TM Video: Yeah.
• 22:42
  TM Video: I think, I think it just might be A martini headache.
• 22:44
  TM Video: A martini headache.
• 22:44
  TM Video: Well, that should be brainstorming.
• 22:46
  TM Video: yeah.
• 22:47
  TM Video: So is anybody else doing that but you?
• 22:48
  TM Video: Are, are you pioneering this field?
• 22:49
  TM Video: I, don't know.
• 22:50
  TM Video: Like, I, I've been looking.
• 22:52
  TM Video: I've seen some...
• 22:53
  TM Video: There are some people who are d- doing like really lots of cool different things.
• 22:56
  TM Video: They h- like shaved ice Ooh...and then pour the martini over shaved ice.
• 22:59
  TM Video: I see some people doing like, I think, which is, you know, the super cool water, and then, like, a chilled thing.
• 23:06
  TM Video: But nobody's doing what I'm I'm looking.
• 23:08
  TM Video: I love, it.
• 23:09
  TM Video: I love it.
• 23:09
  TM Video: I hope somebody else is doing it I love it.
• 23:11
  TM Video: 'cause it's really cool.
• 23:12
  TM Video: Have you published your recipe?
• 23:13
  TM Video: Can we put the recipe out there?
• 23:14
  TM Video: Oh, yeah, 100%.
• 23:14
  TM Video: Yeah, Great.
• 23:14
  TM Video: the recipe's out there in the world and Yeah Well, we'll we'll put that recipe online.
• 23:18
  TM Video: I- And it's super easy.
• 23:19
  TM Video: And again, it takes 15 seconds to make a martini.
• 23:23
  TM Video: There's, That's great...and there's...
• 23:24
  TM Video: You don't have to think about stirring it to get it the right dilution, just
• 23:27
  MIC2: plop,
• 23:28
  TM Video: pour, garnish, drink.
• 23:30
  TM Video: I, I remember talking to Preston about this 25 years ago before Capital Marty, talking about let's have garnish that melts into the drink Mm-hmm...and becomes part of the drink.
• 23:41
  TM Video: This could be such a cool thing, Yeah.
• 23:43
  TM Video: I don't think that we actually did it until we opened Capital Marty.
• 23:46
  TM Video: Right.
• 23:46
  TM Video: But, you know, it's just one of those things where like like that's something that's, we gotta do.
• 23:50
  TM Video: Yeah.
• 23:50
  TM Video: We have to do that.
• 23:51
  TM Video: It's a super
• 23:51
  MIC1: A- and, it's...
• 23:53
  TM Video: You
• 23:53
  MIC1: I'm so happy
• 23:53
  TM Video: see people doing it and, and making it part of their culture and the, All right...and the cocktail culture.
• 23:57
  TM Video: Yeah.
• 23:58
  TM Video: I got one final question.
• 23:59
  TM Video: It's a very quick answer.
• 24:00
  TM Video: If you were making a regular martini, stirred gin, vermouth, Whatever garnish you choose, what's your proportion of ginger beer?
• 24:09
  TM Video: Um, it's, depends on how, it Uh, short answer.
• 24:14
  TM Video: Two...
• 24:14
  TM Video: two- What's your perfect martini?
• 24:15
  TM Video: Two, two ounces of Ford's gin or another high-proof, uh, London dry gin, one ounce of Dolin Blanc or
• 24:24
  MIC2: some
• 24:24
  TM Video: other f- good French dry vermouth, couple of dashes like three dashes of orange bitters.
• 24:30
  TM Video: I prefer bitterQ orange bitters.
• 24:33
  TM Video: Yeah.
• 24:33
  TM Video: Uh, stirred to bejesus, like way more than you think you are- Uh-huh because the ice, especially if I'm making it for myself at home, the ice is gonna be too cold.
• 24:41
  TM Video: Like stir.
• 24:42
  TM Video: stir, stir, stir, stir.
• 24:44
  TM Video: lemon peel.
• 24:46
  TM Video: Maybe some olives on the side, but they do, do not touch, like- Don't touch the- Don't touch the olive Yeah.
• 26:18
  TM Video: Yeah.
• 26:19
  TM Video: For young bartenders, I just think that's something that's so important.
• 26:22
  TM Video: You have to take the time to stir your martini enough.
• 26:25
  TM Video: Yeah.
• 26:26
  TM Video: Yeah.
• 26:26
  TM Video: It's true.
• 26:26
  TM Video: You have to stir it enough.
• 26:29
  TM Video: If your drink's not cold enough, your proportions aren't right- Yeah and it never tastes the way it should.
• 26:34
  TM Video: All right, Toby Maloney, we're leaving you.
• 26:35
  TM Video: Uh, two to one is your advice on the classic martini.
• 26:37
  TM Video: Two to one, dash, dash, dash.
• 26:39
  TM Video: Thank you so much for coming out of the martini expo to chat with us.
• 26:42
  TM Video: Yeah.
• 26:42
  TM Video: I'll see you over a Martini later.
• 26:43
  TM Video: Perfect.
• 26:44
  TM Video: Thanks.
• 26:44
  TM Video: Thanks a bunch.
• 26:44
  MIC1: Thanks so much, Toby
• 26:46
  TM Video: a lot, Toby
• 26:47
  Speaker 3: Okay, so here we are at the Martini Expo in Chicago, Illinois, and we are talking to someone who also is not from Chicago, Illinois.
• 26:53
  Speaker 3: This is Jackson Cannon.
• 26:55
  Speaker 3: He is from Boston, he's the guy who brought craft cocktails to Boston.
• 26:59
  Speaker 3: He's an OG like us from another part of the country.
• 27:02
  Speaker 3: Couldn't be happier to talk with him for just a couple minutes.
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: so glad to be here.
• 27:05
  Speaker: we're so glad you're here.
• 27:06
  Speaker: I mean, uh, Eastern Standard, literally the standard, right?
• 27:10
  Speaker: That's, you guys set the standard for cocktails in Boston so early on.
• 27:14
  Speaker: When did you guys first start, uh, doing cocktails there?
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: So we opened in the spring of 2005, um, in our original location where we were for 15 years.
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: Um, and at the time it was, you know, a few places in New York you could get great drinks, some places in London, but it really hadn't started proliferating out at all.
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: And I had a high volume cocktail bar and decided, since I wasn't p- particularly well experienced, I was just dumb enough to think we could do it- Yeah there.
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: And so, um, I found a team of people who wanted to do it with me, and we started making them for the masses.
• 27:43
  Speaker 3: when you started and when we started, there weren't a lot of cocktail bars.
• 27:46
  Speaker 3: And like you said, they were in London, they were in New York, and they weren't in, uh, in other places.
• 27:51
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 27:51
  Speaker 3: when you started your cocktail bar, another thing that we have in common, cocktails, you would go to a cocktail bar'cause fine dining restaurants didn't have great craft cocktails.
• 28:01
  Speaker 3: Who knew, right?
• 28:02
  Speaker 3: But we won the game, and now everybody has them.
• 28:04
  Speaker 3: But you used to go to a swanky- Not everybody has
• 28:06
  Speaker: them, Francis.
• 28:06
  Speaker 3: You're right.
• 28:07
  Speaker 3: But it's, but at a great restaurant, there's a priority on cocktails.
• 28:10
  Speaker 3: Everyone's
• 28:10
  Speaker 2: charging for them now.
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: Not everybody has
• 28:13
  Speaker 3: them.
• 28:13
  Speaker 3: But back then you would go to a fancy restaurant and you, they wouldn't have decent cocktails, right?
• 28:17
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 28:17
  Speaker 3: You
• 28:17
  Speaker: better get a scotch on the rocks-
• 28:18
  Speaker 3: So you go to a cocktail bar'cause that's the
• 28:19
  Speaker: best you could do.
• 28:20
  Speaker 3: So what we did and what you did was we have a fine dining restaurant where we had cocktails incorporated as part of a whole dining experience.
• 28:28
  Speaker 3: And as far as I know, you and we were the first ones to ever do that.
• 28:32
  Speaker 3: Well- So tell us about that.
• 28:33
  Speaker 3: You had two hun- So the, the-
• 28:33
  Speaker 2: 200
• 28:34
  Speaker 3: seats?
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: So the, the, uh...
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: More.
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: Um, the, and you know, 21 seat bar and a lot of standing room and near a ballpark and big and busy, and we were supporting a hotel at that time, so breakfast, lunch, dinner, and overnight room service.
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: Um, but the DNA that really started that was with, our owner, Garrett Harker.
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: He was at Number Nine Park, and he heard Dale DeGroff speak, um, early 2000s about that disconnect between- Mm-hmm how chefs use great ingredients in the back, but there's sour mix being used at the bar.
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: Mm.
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: And he just heard that and thought- In an instant-
• 29:07
  Speaker: This
• 29:07
  Speaker 2: doesn't make sense this just, this has to change Right.
• 29:09
  Speaker: I love
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: it.
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: And, so Number Nine Park was a fine dining restaurant for us that started to have, like, these inroads of, like, well-made- Mm-hmm gimlets and things that had names that people would order.
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: Um, and so when, uh, he hired me to do Eastern Standard, he was already interested in that and fully understood kind of that part of it.
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: and that's really, you know, as a big full service restaurant, really how we came about, wanting to make sure that things were just as good in the, in, behind the bar as they were in the kitchen.
• 29:34
  Speaker 3: Well, you know, we're as interested in talking about the contemporary cocktail world, but we have to remember, and one of the things Mark and I talk about all the time, is where the cocktail world came from.
• 29:45
  Speaker 3: And you're that first generation of Dale DeGroff people to, like, bring the gospel to Boston.
• 29:50
  Speaker: Why are you putting an egg in my drink?
• 29:51
  Speaker: Why, why- Exactly why are you putting an egg in my drink?
• 29:53
  Speaker 3: Well, it's often said that you're the Dale DeGroff of Boston, and we have like to think that- Oof Yeah.
• 29:58
  Speaker 3: It's big, right?
• 29:59
  Speaker 3: I know.
• 29:59
  Speaker 3: But we're kind of the Dale DeGroff of New Jersey.
• 30:00
  Speaker 3: No, no.
• 30:01
  Speaker 3: I don't know if that's better or worse.
• 30:01
  Speaker 3: There's no, none
• 30:02
  Speaker: of us can be the Dale
• 30:03
  Francis: DeGroff of anywhere.
• 30:04
  Francis: No?
• 30:04
  Francis: Okay, so we're like the- Sorry, buddy we're like the apostles- in trilogy.
• 30:06
  Francis: It's like from the, from the, a letter from, Jackson Cannon to the Bostonians.
• 30:10
  Francis: I would,
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: I would drill down on
• 30:12
  Speaker 3: the
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: fact that, you know, Dale didn't really teach us, right?
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: He inspired us.
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: And we opened places that trained people, but we were all self-trained, right?
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: Mm.
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: So that to me is kind of that being in that first level.
• 30:23
  Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.
• 30:23
  Speaker 2: That's really, like, what it means, and that's, you know, when I'm, when people are looking to me to tell them some history or tell them some process or say,"Hey, this drink you're working on reminds me of a drink they've never heard of before.
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: Um, like, look at that architecture." Um, I didn't, I didn't have that, you know?
• 30:39
  Speaker 2: Like- Mm-hmm I had some like-minded people around, Mr.
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: Kalfus and Brother Cleve- Mm-hmm John Gertson.
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: You know, we were shopping in thrift stores.
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: We were bringing Peychaud's Bitters back from New Orleans in our suitcases.
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: Buying antique books.
• 30:51
  Speaker 2: You know?
• 30:51
  Speaker 2: Buying
• 30:51
  Speaker 3: antique books, yeah.
• 30:52
  Speaker: That's, you know, it's funny- And making
• 30:54
  Speaker 2: drinks for each other, you know?
• 30:54
  Speaker: But you talk about bringing ingredients back in your suitcases.
• 30:58
  Speaker: I mean, a, a elderflower syrup is one of the ones that, you know- From Austria people were smuggling us elderflower syrup- Yeah, yeah from Austria so we could make cocktails- Yeah, yeah you know, 10 years before
• 31:07
  Speaker 2: 10 years before somebody had this thing.
• 31:08
  Speaker 2: Before it was a thing.
• 31:08
  Speaker 2: Exactly, yeah.
• 31:08
  Speaker 3: And we were were actually known as the, when Laird's Applejack first had that renaissance and then there was a shortage of it'cause they hadn't distilled it for so long, we would go to New York cocktail bars,'cause we were in Jersey so we could always get it.
• 31:18
  Speaker 3: Right,
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: right.
• 31:18
  Speaker 3: We would like, we'd, we'd pay with a bottle of Applejack.
• 31:21
  Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly.
• 31:21
  Speaker 3: There you go.
• 31:22
  Speaker 3: so I met you in your bar in Eastern Standard shortly after it opened, and it was, it was great.
• 31:27
  Speaker 3: It was a great iteration of it.
• 31:29
  Speaker 3: You didn't have people to teach you- Nope except Dale to inspire you, and we didn't either, but- Boston had you to teach it I,
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: I mean, I had to.
• 31:38
  Speaker 2: I had a big place.
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: I've been in s- you know, a storyteller, I've been a musician before I was in, uh, bars and restaurants, but I'd never really worked with, like, larger group dynamics like that.
• 31:48
  Speaker 2: I'd been in small group dynamics a lot, um, but as a bass player, kind of as a side person, as a follower.
• 31:53
  Speaker 2: and so I needed a lot of help with that.
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: my owner and partner in The Hawthorne cocktail bar, Garrett, like, was, is a good coach, pretty hands-off.
• 32:00
  Speaker 2: Um, but I also am really, like, interested in human nature and psychology, and so, you know, for this to function, I knew that you couldn't be lining up behind one person to get their version of a cosmopolitan, right?
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: We all had to make the drink the same way, but if we made it a little bit different for Mary, everybody on staff had to know that for when she came in if you weren't there, right?
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: Yep.
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: So this whole guest recognition of fine dining translating into this sort of, like, thorough communication through bar logging of everything that happened in that space-
• 32:28
  Speaker: Un- unfortunately, I think, though- built
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: a kinda community, you know?
• 32:30
  Speaker: The problem you were talking about from way back when is a problem that's gotten worse as bartenders think that they know more than everybody else.
• 32:38
  Speaker: you have a problem where a bartender's, like, going off-script.
• 32:41
  Speaker: you can't go off-script.
• 32:42
  Speaker: This cocktail is this.
• 32:44
  Speaker: Right.
• 32:44
  Speaker: If you would like to make a different cocktail for that
• 32:45
  Speaker 3: person- Right.
• 32:46
  Speaker 3: We can change the scripts together- Right but you can't be, like you said- Right Fred's working on Tuesday night, so the-
• 32:52
  Speaker 2: This is
• 32:52
  Speaker 3: the,
• 32:53
  Speaker 2: that is- people come in on Tuesday that right there is the meat of it, though.
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: And, and the question that you always are asking yourself is,"With this person, how do I change that behavior-" Mm-hmm.
• 33:01
  Speaker 2: in a positive way," right?
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah.
• 33:03
  Speaker 2: And I found that buy-in was the essential tool, right?
• 33:06
  Speaker 2: So- You know, if you have a group of people on an opening, for sure, at any given time, like somebody in the group has one best answer for the whole group, right?
• 33:14
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 33:15
  Speaker 2: And so if you could be like,"Hey, Andy's rinsing his tin on the mojito with the soda water." Like,"This is a really good idea.
• 33:23
  Speaker 2: Let's do it like Andy's doing it." Wow.
• 33:25
  Speaker 2: Then Andy's got your back when you're like,"Hey, Doug is doing this thing with the espresso martini I like."
• 33:30
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 33:30
  Speaker 2: And Nicole has found a better place for the simple syrup.
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: And if you're, if you're building consensus, and I'm just a natural collaborator, I really thrill to it.
• 33:37
  Speaker 2: Uh-huh.
• 33:37
  Speaker 2: But I also need help.
• 33:39
  Speaker 3: Yeah,
• 33:39
  Speaker 2: yeah, yeah.
• 33:39
  Speaker 2: You know?
• 33:39
  Speaker 2: And as a mentor, I've always sort of approached it that I'm the one learning.
• 33:43
  Speaker 2: that's how you can kinda get it done.
• 33:45
  Speaker 2: and it's harder today because we're a little broken off from some of these traditions.
• 33:49
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 33:49
  Speaker 2: But it's possible.
• 33:49
  Speaker: The maxim is, though, you gotta be keep learning.
• 33:51
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 33:52
  Speaker: You just have to.
• 33:52
  Speaker: If you're not getting better, you're getting worse.
• 33:54
  Speaker 3: I have two questions, and these are my final two questions.
• 33:57
  Speaker 3: You, you may have others, but my, my two questions are where...
• 34:00
  Speaker 3: ba.
• 34:00
  Speaker 3: We've been to Chicago before, and being here is the perfect reason to come back.
• 34:04
  Speaker 3: And the Martini Expo is great.
• 34:05
  Speaker 3: Was in Brooklyn last year, it's in Chicago this year.
• 34:08
  Speaker 3: And we're also interviewing a bunch of other chefs while we're here.
• 34:12
  Speaker 3: We asked a lot of the chefs why Chicago?
• 34:15
  Speaker 3: And what I wanna ask you is, in Boston, when you brought in the cocktails to a, a public that maybe wasn't ready, w- hadn't seen them before, what was it like then, and what's it like now in Boston as the cocktail guy of Boston?
• 34:30
  Speaker 2: Well, I mean, you're talking about a 20-year span where- Yeah where we, all of us everywhere, legion, changed the world.
• 34:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 34:36
  Speaker 2: Changed the way people drink.
• 34:37
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 34:37
  Speaker 2: Cool.
• 34:38
  Speaker 2: And, um, you know, it...
• 34:40
  Speaker 2: Did it have a height than as, uh, in 2018 or'19?
• 34:44
  Speaker 2: Maybe.
• 34:45
  Speaker 2: but I think the future's bright, it's just that we have been so interrupted from that.
• 34:48
  Speaker 3: Oh, yeah.
• 34:49
  Speaker 2: Um, and things that we learned to do that, that like batching and, and other kind of trends, the photographability of things, the way information's communicated, mostly that most- People who are in the creative phase of their bartending now wanna go in the kitchen and make a, a unique ingredient first, means we'll have no modern classics, but we will have some good drinks.
• 35:08
  Speaker: Right,
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: right.
• 35:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 35:09
  Speaker 2: Um, so we've just got, you know, to, to kind of wrap this into the continuum that we were part of with this renaissance and that platinum age, we have some work to do, but I'm optimistic and I'm still in the fight, so.
• 35:19
  Speaker: Yeah, you know, one of the things Dale says all the time is,"There's never been a better time to, to drink cocktails." Yeah, it is
• 35:24
  Speaker 3: the golden age.
• 35:25
  Speaker 3: It's
• 35:25
  Speaker: the platinum age, in my book.
• 35:25
  Speaker: We're in it, we're, we're still in it right now.
• 35:27
  Speaker: It, it's never been better than it is right now.
• 35:29
  Speaker 3: So final word, I've, read interviews that you've done mixology's important, cocktails are important, but I think that the bar tradition that is centered in New York, Chicago, and Boston
• 35:41
  Speaker: is-
• 35:42
  Speaker 3: And New Brunswick.
• 35:43
  Speaker 3: And New Brunswick, New Jersey.
• 35:43
  Speaker 3: It's a real bar culture, and more important than cocktails, more important about the skills, it's about the people.
• 35:49
  Speaker 3: it's about being a publican and giving a reas- people a reason to turn off the television and come have drinks together in our places.
• 35:56
  Speaker 3: Would you agree?
• 35:57
  Speaker 2: I, I couldn't agree more, and it's like, what's that Julia Child's toast for the dinner party?
• 36:01
  Speaker 2: It's not what's on the table, it's what's on the chairs.
• 36:03
  Speaker 3: Nice.
• 36:03
  Speaker 2: And I think that that's really applicable.
• 36:05
  Speaker 2: It's really about the guest, and the only reason I ever wanted to make a better drink was really to just make somebody else's day, make them happy, serve them something they enjoy,
• 36:14
  Speaker: you know?
• 36:14
  Speaker: Chas- Spoken like a true bartender.
• 36:15
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 36:15
  Speaker 3: Chas and Cannon, here's to you.
• 36:17
  Speaker 3: That was great.
• 36:17
  Speaker 3: Cheers.
• 36:18
  Speaker 3: Cheers,
• 36:18
  cheers.
• 36:19
  Speaker: All right, so here's a small world story for the restaurant guys.
• 36:22
  Speaker: Federico Lombardi is here.
• 36:24
  Speaker: You're working now with Altamira Vodka, right- Exactly, yes in the United
• 36:27
  Speaker 2: States.
• 36:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 36:27
  Speaker: But you're an Italian,
• 36:29
  Speaker 2: right?
• 36:29
  Speaker 2: I'm Italian, yes, yes.
• 36:29
  Speaker: But you were at one of the world's best bars, the Paradiso bar in- Number one bar for
• 36:33
  Speaker 3: one year,
• 36:34
  Speaker 2: right?
• 36:34
  Speaker: Yeah, in the world's best 50, and number one bar, best bar in the world- Mm-hmm at Paradiso in, uh, Barcelona.
• 36:38
  Speaker 2: Barcelona, yeah.
• 36:39
  Speaker: And now you're here in the United States, and you're also working at Dante in New York City.
• 36:42
  Speaker 2: I do, yeah.
• 36:43
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 36:43
  Speaker: That's pretty amazing.
• 36:44
  Speaker: But we started, and I only just realized this, you had found me on Facebook because of kind of our mutual- Yeah set of friends and like, and you were- said, you know,"I'm, I'm a young bartender.
• 36:55
  Speaker: I wanna relocate to the United States.
• 36:56
  Speaker: Do you have any advice for me?" So we've been corresponding, and I didn't realize it was you.
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: Here we are.
• 37:01
  Speaker: Here we are.
• 37:02
  Speaker: Isn't that, isn't that a wonderful small world story there?
• 37:04
  Speaker: Yeah,
• 37:04
  Speaker 2: it is the, the good things about social media.
• 37:07
  Speaker: Uh, it's true.
• 37:08
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 37:08
  Speaker: I hope you found my advice a little bit helpful over the years.
• 37:10
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 37:10
  Speaker: Sure,
• 37:10
  Speaker 2: of course.
• 37:11
  Speaker: Yeah, always come on a podcast, I think was one of my, my bits of advice.
• 37:14
  Speaker: Yeah, because- So
• 37:15
  Speaker 3: you've only been here a couple of months.
• 37:16
  Speaker 3: How, uh...
• 37:17
  Speaker 3: What's different here compared to, to Spain and Italy and-
• 37:21
  Speaker 2: Uh, I have to say that- Barcelona American culture about cocktail- Mm-hmm is really deep, very strong compared to Europe and Italy, where we are more focused about wine, aperitif.
• 37:33
  Speaker 3: Mm-hmm.
• 37:33
  Speaker 2: I can, uh, since now it's like ch- almost three month I'm here in, uh, in the States.
• 37:38
  Speaker 2: I've been before as well, but just, like, for pop-up events.
• 37:41
  Speaker 2: But since I'm working, like, every day, you know, behind the bar, I notice, like, the cocktail culture here is, uh, really strong.
• 37:49
  Speaker 2: And I mean, for a bartender it's, uh- So me, I mean, like me as a bartender, I'm working behind the bar, see like, uh, so many cocktails coming out.
• 37:57
  Speaker 2: It's so cool.
• 37:58
  Speaker 2: People, they have knowledge about what they are drinking, so I love it, yes.
• 38:04
  Speaker 2: Some-
• 38:04
  Speaker 3: And they have opinions too- Oh not just knowledge.
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah.
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: They have opinions.
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: They are very picky, I must say- So here- about spirits, uh, what they want- Mm-hmm and they, and the minimum they taste.
• 38:14
  Speaker: Well, so here's a question.
• 38:15
  Speaker: Uh, you came from two cultures, Italy and Spain.
• 38:18
  Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.
• 38:18
  Speaker: Uh, and, uh, Barcelona, Catalan, Spain, which don't value cocktails as much as they do value wine.
• 38:26
  Speaker: How did you wind up being so passionate about cocktails that it led you to come to America, and to be so involved that that was a right choice for you?
• 38:34
  Speaker: You
• 38:35
  Speaker 2: know, I always, uh, uh, been passionate about, like, uh, flavors.
• 38:39
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 38:39
  Speaker 2: Always be following big bartender's name or also chef.
• 38:44
  Speaker 2: Chef are one of the most inspiration about when I creating cocktails.
• 38:48
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 38:48
  Speaker 2: So when I create a cocktail, I always, uh, find out what, what the best restaurant does in terms of, uh, mixing flavors.
• 38:56
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 38:56
  Speaker 2: I think there is a very good, uh, relationship between the creation of a dish and a cocktail as well.
• 39:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 39:01
  Speaker 2: And, uh, yeah, this is basically what get, get my passion about, uh, uh, creating a cocktail, uh, mixing of flavor, uh, research of a, a product.
• 39:12
  Speaker 2: I love the, to work with the raw product, you know?
• 39:15
  Speaker: Well, let me ask you, I believe that America is the greatest...
• 39:19
  Speaker: If you're looking for cocktail ingredients, I mean, there's more available to you here than anywhere in the world.
• 39:24
  Speaker: Is that, is that, is my assumption correct?
• 39:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think so, yeah.
• 39:28
  Speaker 2: I mean, America, uh, yeah, you have many option, many culture as well.
• 39:33
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 39:33
  Speaker 2: So this mix of culture, I think it can, uh, help you and, uh, have more space, more freedom-
• 39:39
  Speaker: Yeah
• 39:40
  Speaker 2: to create a different flavor and, uh, yeah.
• 39:43
  Speaker 2: You have, uh, a lot of, uh, uh, is a lot of product available.
• 39:47
  Speaker: I think one of the things that we find most interesting about bartending,'cause we're, we're, our restaurant's very focused on wine.
• 39:54
  Speaker: The estate bottle wines from small producers, people who have integrity in making wine, the same way as we look for having integrity in making cocktails, but a big difference, you know, wine take...
• 40:03
  Speaker: Every, every wine is at least a one year in the making, and the vines are 10, 20, 30, 100 years in the making, and the winemaker's not there.
• 40:12
  Speaker: But the bartender makes the drink in front of you- Ah, yeah and it's a la minute.
• 40:17
  Speaker: And so there's a social- Even the chef
• 40:19
  Speaker 3: doesn't get what we have.
• 40:20
  Speaker: Exactly.
• 40:20
  Speaker: So there's a social aspect to it, and I, I'm really wanna hear your perspective on coming from Barcelona and, and out of Italian culture- Can the bartender occupy that same position there as here, or is that kind of an American, British, Australian thing- Mm with a bartender so much a part of the experience with the guest?
• 40:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 40:44
  Speaker 2: I, I think so.
• 40:45
  Speaker 2: Well, back to my, my experience in, as a background, like, uh, when I was working before Paradiso, was very focused about hospitality and very focused- Right about the, uh, the interaction with the guest.
• 40:57
  Speaker 2: So, and also here I notice in the US, like guest, when you give to them like a, a, a bit of yourself, like speaking about yourself, where you're coming from- Yeah or talking about the cocktails, they, they, they fell in love with you immediately.
• 41:14
  Speaker 2: And having these skills to interact with the guest- Yeah,
• 41:18
  Speaker: more personable.
• 41:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 41:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 41:19
  Speaker 2: More, more yourself, you know?
• 41:21
  Speaker 2: Just, uh- Yeah just speak about yourself and more genuine, you know?
• 41:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah,
• 41:26
  Speaker 3: yeah.
• 41:26
  Speaker 3: More genuine, exactly.
• 41:27
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 41:27
  Speaker 3: So
• 41:28
  Speaker 2: you're- People love it, yeah.
• 41:28
  Speaker 2: I-
• 41:29
  Speaker 3: When, when you were at Paradiso and you become the number one cocktail bar in the world- Mm-hmm which obviously pretty prestigious thing, is, are you trying to become the number one cocktail bar in the world?
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: Well, we can say, uh, no, it's...
• 41:45
  Speaker 2: Well, it's, it's a competition Mm-hmm At, at the end it's, it's this.
• 41:48
  Speaker 2: It's a competition.
• 41:50
  Speaker 2: I need to be healthy-
• 41:52
  Speaker 3: Mm-hmm
• 41:52
  Speaker 2: 'cause otherwise you're gonna kill yourself, you know, otherwise.
• 41:55
  Speaker 3: Easy to do in
• 41:56
  Speaker 2: this business.
• 41:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly.
• 41:57
  Speaker 2: But yeah, I mean, our goal was to...
• 42:01
  Speaker 2: We're pushing every day, uh-
• 42:02
  Speaker 3: Next question.
• 42:03
  Speaker 3: Was that a goal for you- Yeah to become the number one cocktail- Si, si, si bar in the world?
• 42:06
  Speaker 2: Si, si, si.
• 42:06
  Speaker 2: No, no excuse.
• 42:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it was-
• 42:08
  Speaker 3: Yeah
• 42:08
  Speaker 2: was our goal- Yes and, uh, we were pushing every day.
• 42:11
  Speaker 2: We've, uh, uh, many things happening in, in the bar or outside.
• 42:16
  Speaker 2: Always, uh, trying to improve ourself.
• 42:18
  Speaker 2: Uh, so yeah, it was, was the goal.
• 42:20
  Speaker: Okay.
• 42:21
  Speaker: All right, so the question we're asking everyone is the following question.
• 42:24
  Speaker: Yes.
• 42:25
  Speaker: The mar- the martini is...
• 42:27
  Speaker: has a special place in the cocktail world.
• 42:29
  Speaker: It's like the simplest, but it's also just a very important cocktail, and anyone who is in any way involved in cocktails has a martini at some point.
• 42:38
  Speaker: When...
• 42:38
  Speaker: And you've come all the way here to come to the Martini Expo in Chicago.
• 42:42
  Speaker: Was there a moment where you had a martini revelation, where you're like,"Oh, that's...
• 42:47
  Speaker: I get that now.
• 42:48
  Speaker: That's a serious drink."
• 42:49
  Speaker 3: I understand why that's so important.
• 42:50
  Speaker: Was- did you have a martini moment where you kinda got it with the martini?
• 42:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 42:54
  Speaker 2: I, I actually, uh, still remember it.
• 42:56
  Speaker 2: Mm.
• 42:57
  Speaker 2: I did like a kind of seminar with, uh, one master, uh, back in Italy, and he was talking about this martini.
• 43:04
  Speaker 2: Actually, he's a very big friend of Ago Perrone.
• 43:07
  Speaker 3: Mm-hmm.
• 43:07
  Speaker 2: So he's their best friend.
• 43:09
  Speaker 2: Simone Masci is, is an institution and, uh, a master.
• 43:12
  Speaker 2: He's not, uh, a lot outside the scene.
• 43:14
  Speaker 2: He's more behind the scene, but he's, he's a master in what he does, and he teach me a lot.
• 43:18
  Speaker 2: And I remember, like, I...
• 43:20
  Speaker 2: how he was speaking about the martini, uh, the temperature, dilution, uh, uh, need to be cold.
• 43:27
  Speaker 2: I remember he was teaching me to do...
• 43:29
  Speaker 2: to stir it, uh, in the right way.
• 43:32
  Speaker 2: Uh- See
• 43:32
  Speaker 3: the same bartender thing, same bartender motions- Yeah and so.
• 43:34
  Speaker 3: Yeah, his hand.
• 43:35
  Speaker 3: Hello.
• 43:36
  Speaker 3: You can all see the spoon in their hand even though it's
• 43:39
  Speaker 2: not there Yeah, yeah.
• 43:39
  Speaker 2: I'm, I'm, I'm imagine now back in the days, me, young.
• 43:43
  Speaker 2: He was teaching me how to do it and then, uh, the importance of the ice, the high quality of the, uh, gin, vermouth, vodka.
• 43:51
  Speaker 2: So the glass need to be perfectly cold.
• 43:54
  Speaker 2: Garnish lemon, green at the moment, fresh.
• 43:57
  Speaker 2: So everything must be perfect.
• 44:00
  Speaker: And was there a moment, though, when you drank a martini and you go- and you got that- Yeah and you're like,
• 44:05
  Speaker 2: This
• 44:05
  Speaker: is it"?
• 44:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it was that.
• 44:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 44:07
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 44:07
  Speaker: Excellent.
• 44:08
  Speaker: Well, thanks for taking the time to talk with us at the Martini Expo.
• 44:11
  Speaker: Yeah, my pleasure.
• 44:11
  Speaker: Really nice to meet you in person.
• 44:12
  Speaker: Here we are at finally And here we are.
• 44:15
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 44:15
  Speaker: And, and I'm not even from the city.
• 44:16
  Speaker: Long way.
• 44:16
  Speaker: It's really- That's a really good
• 44:17
  Speaker 3: last name
• 44:17
  Speaker: yeah, yeah.
• 44:18
  Speaker: Sbaranti, yeah.
• 44:19
  Speaker: Excellent.
• 44:20
  Speaker: Well, thanks a bunch for coming on the show.
• 44:21
  Speaker: We're gonna go back and have some martinis right downstairs- Fantastic and find another victim.
• 44:25
  Speaker: You can find out more about us at restaurantguyspodcast.com.
• 44:28
  Speaker 2: Ciao.
• 44:29
  Speaker: Ciao.
• 44:30
  MIC3: so here we are at
• 44:31
  DS Video: Martini Expo in Chicago, and
• 44:33
  MIC3: we have grabbed this time a real live
• 44:36
  DS Video: Chicagoan
• 44:36
  MIC3: Chicagoan in his native environment.
• 44:37
  MIC3: we have Dan Smith.
• 44:38
  MIC3: He's the managing partner at Queen Mary Tavern.
• 44:41
  MIC3: That's a cocktail bar in Chicago's Ukrainian village.
• 44:43
  MIC3: his work's been featured
• 44:44
  DS Video: in Imbibe, Punch, Magazine.
• 44:47
  MIC3: Chicago Magazine named Dan's Navy Strength Old Fashioned
• 44:51
  DS Video: the best cocktail in Chicago 2024.
• 44:54
  DS Video: Queen
• 44:55
  MIC3: Martini has often been cited as Chicago's finest and among
• 44:58
  DS Video: the finest in the country.
• 45:00
  DS Video: you are here at the Martini Dan, welcome to the show.
• 45:03
  DS Video: Thank
• 45:04
  MIC2: you very
• 45:04
  DS Video: Pleasure to be here.
• 45:05
  DS Video: Dude, you're a martini legend-
• 45:07
  MIC3: and we're in your hometown.
• 45:08
  MIC3: Uh.
• 45:08
  DS Video: Uh.
• 45:09
  MIC3: are the queen of the prom right now.
• 45:11
  MIC3: Uh, you though-
• 45:12
  MIC2: the queen of the prom right now I, I don't know about that.
• 45:12
  MIC2: Thank you.
• 45:12
  MIC2: That's very generous.
• 45:12
  MIC3: you're welcome Zach and Sam, yes.
• 45:13
  MIC3: You're welcome.
• 45:13
  MIC3: So wh-
• 45:14
  DS Video: So
• 45:18
  MIC2: It's, uh, a neighborhood in-- It's, uh, part of Chicago's West Town, so that's sort of the near Northwest Side.
• 45:23
  MIC2: So it's, you know, a 15 minutes drive from here, or
• 45:26
  MIC1: And still a big Ukrainian
• 45:28
  MIC2: Ukrainian population?
• 45:28
  MIC2: you you know, it absolutely is.
• 45:30
  MIC2: Absolutely.
• 45:30
  MIC2: I live in the
• 45:31
  DS Video: Ukrainian village,
• 45:31
  MIC2: uh, not five blocks from the bar.
• 45:33
  MIC2: All
• 45:33
  DS Video: my neighbors, my landlady,
• 45:34
  MIC2: everyone around me is.
• 45:36
  DS Video: That's It
• 45:37
  MIC3: I really like
• 45:37
  DS Video: that.
• 45:38
  DS Video: York- It's a
• 45:38
  MIC2: I like that.
• 45:38
  MIC2: Yeah.
• 45:38
  MIC2: It's
• 45:38
  DS Video: community.
• 45:39
  DS Video: Yeah, our restaurants are s- in a very Hungarian town- Mm in a very Hungarian area
• 45:43
  MIC1: that's still thriving, still,
• 45:46
  DS Video: still very Hungarian.
• 45:47
  DS Video: Oh, yeah, It's not...
• 45:48
  DS Video: Obviously- that's very cool.
• 45:48
  DS Video: it's a diverse
• 45:50
  MIC3: All right, so Dan, tell
• 45:50
  DS Video: us where you
• 45:51
  MIC3: came from and what your bar's all about.
• 45:53
  MIC3: I mean, this is a really important part of today's, uh, show
• 45:56
  DS Video: cause this is the real Chicago.
• 45:58
  DS Video: you're, a Chicago guy.
• 45:59
  DS Video: So
• 46:00
  MIC3: tell us about the Queen Mary.
• 46:01
  MIC3: the mission of your bar
• 46:02
  DS Video: is and what
• 46:03
  MIC3: it's like and what you're doing.
• 46:04
  MIC2: Absolutely.
• 46:04
  MIC2: Well, uh, I've
• 46:05
  DS Video: been
• 46:06
  MIC2: working in bars and, and bartending since
• 46:08
  DS Video: shortly after I finished college.
• 46:09
  DS Video: I, uh, intended
• 46:11
  MIC2: to go to graduate school, and so I was going
• 46:13
  DS Video: to take
• 46:13
  MIC2: a
• 46:13
  MIC1: We
• 46:14
  MIC2: year and,...and write my applications, and I was gonna study linguistic anthropology.
• 46:18
  MIC2: And then for various reasons, I started, you know, bartending in the-- or barbacking to, just to make
• 46:22
  DS Video: in the meantime.
• 46:24
  MIC2: and then for various reasons decided not to go the academic path
• 46:27
  DS Video: to, and to stay with the,
• 46:28
  MIC1: Cause this is fun.
• 46:29
  MIC1: Everybody needs to know'cause our lives are
• 46:32
  DS Video: fun most
• 46:33
  MIC1: of Our lives.
• 46:34
  DS Video: are more fun yours.
• 46:35
  DS Video: Oh, I
• 46:37
  MIC3: You don't know who's listening.
• 46:38
  MIC3: Mark.
• 46:38
  DS Video: Mark.
• 46:38
  DS Video: We don't know who's listening,
• 46:39
  MIC3: But it is a lot of fun.
• 46:40
  MIC3: But anyway, so,
• 46:41
  DS Video: so from okay, not gonna do graduate
• 46:44
  MIC3: school, gonna
• 46:45
  DS Video: do the bar thing.
• 46:46
  DS Video: Then what happens
• 46:47
  MIC3: to where you get you to today?
• 46:48
  MIC2: Well, uh, uh, right, right when I was starting my career, Violet Hour
• 46:51
  DS Video: was new
• 46:52
  MIC2: and, and very exciting, and I, I, I n- it's funny, I d- I was interested in cocktails before, way
• 46:57
  DS Video: I ever drank one, because I knew them as, as something in books and
• 47:00
  MIC2: in
• 47:00
  DS Video: movies.
• 47:00
  DS Video: All
• 47:01
  MIC3: All right, hold on a second.
• 47:01
  MIC3: What books, what old
• 47:02
  DS Video: movies?
• 47:03
  DS Video: Uh, uh, Casablanca, The Thin Man, Love it.
• 47:06
  DS Video: things, thing,
• 47:07
  MIC3: Oh my goodness
• 47:08
  MIC2: uh, Bette Davis movies, you know, she's throwing back, in All About Eve, she's throwing back martinis, th-
• 47:12
  DS Video: love it.
• 47:12
  DS Video: she's throwing back martinis.
• 47:12
  DS Video: Th- things of, things of that nature.
• 47:14
  DS Video: And
• 47:14
  MIC2: so I thought,"Well, there's, there's, there's a whole cultural phenomenon going on here that I don't see in the world and in my life anywhere." And then I became old enough and realized, Someone
• 47:22
  DS Video: said,
• 47:23
  MIC2: someone took me to The Violet Hour, and
• 47:24
  DS Video: said,"Well, this thing that you've been reading
• 47:26
  MIC1: Hour and
• 47:26
  MIC2: here it is.
• 47:27
  MIC2: Someone's really doing it.
• 47:28
  MIC2: and um, and that w- so that was a, that was a light bulb moment, and I, and I have just kind of followed that
• 47:33
  DS Video: path-
• 47:35
  MIC2: ever, ever since
• 47:36
  MIC3: Y-
• 47:36
  DS Video: You, you know what's
• 47:37
  MIC3: interesting.
• 47:37
  MIC3: I h- I, I came to this primarily through wine.
• 47:39
  MIC3: I,
• 47:40
  DS Video: I, fell in love with wine
• 47:42
  MIC3: I ever really had wine, and it was, for me, it
• 47:43
  DS Video: was, I was in high school, and, you know, I was reading the expatriate authors of
• 47:49
  MIC3: the interwar period Hemingway and Fitzgerald...and
• 47:52
  DS Video: all that.
• 47:52
  DS Video: Absolutely.
• 47:52
  DS Video: And they're, you know, riding in open-top Jeeps tasting the, the soil of Sancerre in the bottle.
• 47:58
  DS Video: I'm like,"I have no..." My dad drives a truck for Reinhold,
• 48:01
  MIC3: and I have no idea
• 48:01
  DS Video: what they're talking about.
• 48:03
  DS Video: like,"Goddammit, I'm gonna
• 48:03
  MIC3: know one day.
• 48:04
  MIC3: And, um, I was in love
• 48:06
  DS Video: with the it And then- Mm-hmm...I got a job bartending
• 48:09
  MIC3: when I was 21 years old, and I was like,"Oh, I, I like this." Did you have
• 48:12
  DS Video: that same thing?
• 48:12
  DS Video: You walk behind
• 48:13
  MIC3: the bar and you're
• 48:13
  DS Video: like,"Oh yeah, this is where I belong." It's funny, not at first, because
• 48:18
  MIC2: I was very interested in cocktails, but also, um, quite shy.
• 48:22
  MIC2: And so I, I realized that I would have to learn
• 48:24
  DS Video: social side, and I would
• 48:26
  MIC2: for- I had to
• 48:27
  DS Video: myself to develop that skill
• 48:28
  MIC2: set.
• 48:28
  MIC2: That didn't come naturally.
• 48:30
  MIC2: Um, but as soon as I had gotten over that...
• 48:32
  MIC2: Because I knew I wanted to serve cocktails,
• 48:33
  DS Video: I knew I wanted to, you
• 48:34
  MIC2: know, make, make people happy and, and s- you know, sort of see the lights come on when
• 48:38
  DS Video: when they when they had a sip.
• 48:40
  DS Video: Um, and so I had to,
• 48:41
  MIC2: I had to kind
• 48:42
  DS Video: of force myself to,
• 48:43
  MIC2: to become much more outgoing and
• 48:45
  DS Video: gregarious.
• 48:46
  DS Video: See, I gotta tell you,
• 48:46
  MIC1: my experience is so
• 48:47
  DS Video: different than yours.
• 48:48
  DS Video: Hmm.
• 48:49
  DS Video: I loved the drinking and the socializing and the
• 48:51
  MIC1: the carousing
• 48:53
  DS Video: and the different flavors of the different beers or whatever I was having.
• 48:58
  MIC1: I, I loved all that
• 49:00
  DS Video: stuff.
• 49:01
  DS Video: It had nothing to do with the ro- romantics of- of, you know,
• 49:04
  MIC1: forgotten times.
• 49:05
  MIC1: It was about the time I was in
• 49:06
  DS Video: right there, right now.
• 49:07
  DS Video: In the basement
• 49:08
  MIC3: the fraternity- rolling a quarter off your nose.
• 49:10
  MIC3: Yeah.
• 49:11
  MIC3: I I-
• 49:12
  MIC1: And, the convivi- I...
• 49:13
  MIC1: What I loved about it was the convivial nature of the of bars,
• 49:17
  DS Video: of restaurants
• 49:19
  MIC1: and the whole
• 49:20
  DS Video: drinking drinking together experience, Mm-hmm.
• 49:23
  DS Video: 'Cause that's what You did.
• 49:24
  DS Video: You had cocktails together.
• 49:25
  DS Video: Dance.
• 49:25
  DS Video: You had beers together.
• 49:26
  DS Video: Dance.
• 49:26
  DS Video: Yes.
• 49:27
  DS Video: We were the dorks in college, and Mark was the president of the fraternity.
• 49:31
  DS Video: That's, that's, that sounds
• 49:32
  MIC2: that sounds about right.
• 49:33
  MIC2: Well, well, I've since discovered the joy of a, of a,...of a humming, buzzing, lively
• 49:38
  DS Video: Of
• 49:38
  MIC3: Yeah, it's like the end of the
• 49:39
  DS Video: nerds Mm-hmm.
• 49:39
  DS Video: the jocks
• 49:39
  MIC3: got together with the nerds.
• 49:41
  MIC3: That's us right here sitting on this couch, don't you think
• 49:43
  MIC2: Well, I, I think I've learned the nerd side of things and, and the kind of the research and the technique
• 49:47
  DS Video: the knowledge
• 49:48
  MIC2: won't carry you through a whole career.
• 49:49
  MIC2: That's, that's not enough
• 49:50
  DS Video: passion to get you
• 49:51
  MIC2: through a whole
• 49:51
  DS Video: career.
• 49:52
  MIC2: It's enough passion to get you started, but you have to, uh, you have to love the
• 49:56
  MIC3: and- it's- about the
• 49:57
  MIC1: You have to love the people But at, at the same time, you
• 49:58
  DS Video: need to know a
• 49:58
  MIC1: little bit about what you're doing, right?
• 50:00
  MIC1: Yeah.
• 50:00
  MIC1: you
• 50:00
  DS Video: Yes.
• 50:00
  MIC1: half-ass your way through it.
• 50:02
  MIC1: you know,
• 50:02
  DS Video: speaking of that, there's a
• 50:04
  MIC1: movement right now, and, and You use it.
• 50:05
  MIC1: in, in, your
• 50:06
  DS Video: Davy's Strength
• 50:07
  MIC1: Fashioned,
• 50:08
  DS Video: uh,
• 50:08
  MIC1: where people are, are adding
• 50:10
  DS Video: salinity to their and
• 50:13
  MIC1: I like the idea of it.
• 50:14
  MIC1: Mm-hmm.
• 50:15
  DS Video: Mm-hmm.
• 50:15
  DS Video: And
• 50:15
  MIC1: occasionally like it in a cocktail.
• 50:18
  DS Video: And I feel like just- Overdoing
• 50:20
  MIC3: it.
• 50:20
  MIC1: using it to death.
• 50:22
  DS Video: Like, it's, it's every
• 50:23
  MIC1: cocktail
• 50:23
  DS Video: has, has, Salt...you know, four teardrops in Absolutely.
• 50:28
  DS Video: yeah, we've, the beginning in the
• 50:30
  MIC2: Navy Strength Old Fashioned and,
• 50:31
  DS Video: uh,
• 50:32
  MIC2: very selectively in
• 50:33
  DS Video: cocktails, and we never
• 50:35
  MIC2: w- we never do a savory cocktail.
• 50:36
  MIC2: We never
• 50:37
  DS Video: above the threshold.
• 50:38
  DS Video: Mm-hmm.
• 50:38
  DS Video: Basically, when
• 50:39
  MIC2: we're salting a cocktail, you should it should never
• 50:42
  DS Video: salty.
• 50:42
  MIC2: It's really just a few drops of,
• 50:44
  DS Video: of we do a 15% saline solution designed
• 50:47
  MIC2: exactly so
• 50:48
  DS Video: that
• 50:49
  MIC2: it will amplify the flavors and make things taste more like what they are,
• 50:52
  DS Video: um, and not taste salty So to me,
• 50:55
  MIC3: I find it works best
• 50:57
  DS Video: in, it to do that, and I think it's used way too much.
• 51:01
  DS Video: Um, for
• 51:02
  MIC3: me, if there's a sweet cocktail or a port-based cocktail
• 51:05
  DS Video: or a chocolate-based cocktail- Mm...or sometimes
• 51:08
  MIC3: an espresso
• 51:08
  DS Video: martini,
• 51:09
  MIC3: I think that can work
• 51:10
  DS Video: in, in
• 51:11
  MIC3: those applications
• 51:12
  DS Video: when it does work.
• 51:13
  DS Video: What, what
• 51:14
  MIC3: your, um, d- uh,
• 51:16
  DS Video: prescription for when
• 51:17
  MIC3: use salt in a cocktail?
• 51:18
  MIC3: When does it
• 51:19
  DS Video: add and when does it not?
• 51:20
  DS Video: Mm.
• 51:21
  DS Video: Uh,
• 51:22
  MIC2: we like it mostly in stirred cocktails,
• 51:26
  DS Video: in
• 51:27
  MIC2: cocktails
• 51:28
  DS Video: when we want to smooth
• 51:30
  MIC2: out a drink that's a little too harsh and a little too Because it, it reduces the perception of bitterness,
• 51:37
  DS Video: um, and
• 51:37
  MIC2: it, it sort of intensifies the, the, the
• 51:40
  DS Video: of the spirits.
• 51:41
  DS Video: Um, yeah, and it has a kind of an overall, a, integrating effect.
• 51:45
  MIC3: I love it.
• 51:46
  MIC3: Well, I love talking about cocktails.
• 51:47
  MIC3: I want you to tell us, though,
• 51:48
  DS Video: about The Queen Mary.
• 51:49
  DS Video: About the Queen Mary,
• 51:49
  MIC3: I wanna know about your bar and how you started it and what, what people will find when they go
• 51:53
  DS Video: there.
• 51:53
  MIC2: Absolutely.
• 51:54
  DS Video: I uh, was given the opportunity
• 51:56
  MIC2: to, to open Queen Mary by, by some colleagues in, in 2015 who had, um,
• 52:00
  DS Video: who had found a, a space...
• 52:02
  DS Video: Actually, we
• 52:03
  MIC2: st- this started back in 2013, they um, which was in a building
• 52:07
  DS Video: owned by, an elderly Polish woman named,
• 52:10
  MIC2: uh, Maria Kafka, um, whose husband had died many years before, and the two
• 52:14
  DS Video: of them had run a, a tavern, a Polish working man's
• 52:18
  MIC3: Nice
• 52:18
  MIC2: um, in the
• 52:19
  DS Video: space from
• 52:20
  MIC2: the mid-1940s
• 52:21
  DS Video: until
• 52:24
  MIC2: And since 1975, sh- he--
• 52:27
  DS Video: when he passed away, Mr.
• 52:28
  DS Video: Kafka, Matush.
• 52:29
  DS Video: And, uh, uh, she had shuttered the bar, continued to live upstairs for- 40 years and not, and not rented
• 52:36
  MIC2: to anyone for 40 years.
• 52:37
  MIC2: That's absolutely right.
• 52:39
  MIC3: What a dream.
• 52:40
  MIC3: I'm, I'm,
• 52:40
  DS Video: a,
• 52:41
  MIC1: Yeah, that's...
• 52:41
  MIC1: I'm a little jealous too.
• 52:42
  MIC3: a little jealous.
• 52:43
  MIC3: Oh, go ahead.
• 52:43
  MIC3: Yeah,
• 52:43
  DS Video: talk some
• 52:44
  MIC3: me more.
• 52:44
  MIC2: It was...
• 52:45
  MIC2: No, it was remarkable because she had, she had kept cleaning and dusting inside constantly,
• 52:49
  DS Video: so it was in very good condition.
• 52:51
  DS Video: was
• 52:51
  MIC2: an original Brunswick back bar, which is a...
• 52:53
  MIC2: a, a...
• 52:54
  MIC2: They still exist.
• 52:55
  MIC2: It's a, it's a
• 52:56
  DS Video: manufacturing company- Mm-hmm
• 52:57
  MIC2: in the region that
• 52:58
  DS Video: made...
• 52:58
  DS Video: Now
• 52:59
  MIC2: they're famous for pool tables and bowling alleys and other things, but they made, uh, wonderful wood back bars, and this was a
• 53:04
  DS Video: an art deco one from the, from the'40s.
• 53:06
  MIC2: Um, it was in grand condition.
• 53:08
  DS Video: Um, uh, unfortunately, there wasn't any, uh, great
• 53:12
  MIC2: liquor still in the bar.
• 53:14
  MIC2: There was a lot of sort of strange 70s stuff.
• 53:16
  MIC2: There was'70s Smirnoff and blackberry liqueur and things like that but not that special.
• 53:21
  MIC2: Um, but really, you know, it was just a great
• 53:23
  DS Video: time capsule of a space that she had kind of saved for us.
• 53:26
  DS Video: Um, so That's amazing yeah, and for some
• 53:28
  MIC2: reason, she'd been turning down prospective renters for a long
• 53:31
  DS Video: time, and for reasons that we still aren't totally sure of, she said yes
• 53:35
  MIC2: to so we, uh, we,
• 53:38
  DS Video: it in her honor.
• 53:39
  DS Video: That's why it's The Queen Mary.
• 53:40
  DS Video: It's not really quite exactly for the, for the ocean liner, but
• 53:43
  MIC2: really it's for
• 53:44
  MIC1: Maybe it was your scholarly
• 53:46
  DS Video: approach
• 53:47
  MIC1: uh- to cocktails in
• 53:48
  MIC3: you still have no idea?
• 53:49
  MIC3: I mean, you just did she...
• 53:50
  MIC3: just...
• 53:50
  MIC3: you s- she...
• 53:51
  MIC3: You probably struck
• 53:52
  DS Video: her as a m- m- maintain the soul of the bar along the soul of the bar.
• 53:56
  MIC2: It's funny, when we were building it out
• 53:58
  DS Video: at first during construction, suspicious, and she was-- would be peering in and fussing over everything we were doing.
• 54:04
  DS Video: But then and once it was full of people, she was clearly very happy.
• 54:07
  DS Video: So I like to think she- Oh, that's great she, she did pass away in two thousand and nineteen,
• 54:10
  MIC2: but I like to think
• 54:11
  DS Video: did a good thing in her,
• 54:13
  MIC2: in her last years by filling her tavern,
• 54:15
  DS Video: know, with life.
• 54:16
  DS Video: Dude,
• 54:16
  MIC3: I'm gonna cry, man.
• 54:17
  MIC3: That was great.
• 54:18
  MIC3: So who's your landlord now?
• 54:19
  MIC3: Her relations
• 54:20
  MIC2: still in Loatian ownership?
• 54:20
  MIC2: Yes, her daughter.
• 54:21
  DS Video: That's amazing.
• 54:21
  DS Video: It's still in the same family.
• 54:23
  DS Video: Yeah.
• 54:23
  MIC2: we have, We Have a great relationship with
• 54:24
  MIC3: them.
• 54:24
  MIC3: all?
• 54:24
  MIC3: right.
• 54:25
  MIC3: So what are people gonna find when they get into your bar?
• 54:27
  DS Video: Is it H-how much of the ethos of the working man's bar have you kept, and how-- have you fancied
• 54:31
  MIC3: it up at all?
• 54:32
  MIC3: What's going on?
• 54:33
  MIC2: We, you know, we, we, uh,
• 54:35
  DS Video: we've, we have opened a, uh, somewhere, somewhere on the,
• 54:39
  MIC2: the spectrum between, uh, a neighborhood tavern
• 54:42
  DS Video: and an lounge.
• 54:45
  DS Video: We fall in between.
• 54:46
  MIC2: Um, although a little closer to the
• 54:48
  DS Video: of, the end of the elegant cocktail lounge.
• 54:51
  DS Video: It's a strictly casual environment.
• 54:53
  MIC2: Uh, our style of, hospitality is very warm and welcoming.
• 54:56
  DS Video: we, really
• 54:57
  MIC2: strictly avoid self-seriousness and that kind of thing.
• 55:00
  MIC2: On the other hand, the level of the product, we like
• 55:02
  DS Video: think, if we're doing our job
• 55:04
  MIC2: right, should be the equal of, of the
• 55:06
  DS Video: best you can get
• 55:06
  MIC2: get anywhere.
• 55:07
  MIC2: Yeah, we, we try and strike
• 55:09
  DS Video: that balance.
• 55:10
  MIC2: a luxury level of product, essentially, in in a neighborhood setting that you
• 55:14
  DS Video: access anytime.
• 55:18
  DS Video: convinces visit there tonight- That
• 55:20
  MIC3: cause it looks, it sounds exactly like my kind of
• 55:23
  MIC2: I think that would be a very nice idea.
• 55:25
  MIC3: All right.
• 55:25
  MIC3: So-
• 55:25
  MIC2: have you
• 55:26
  DS Video: we
• 55:26
  MIC3: do that...um, we have to ask you about
• 55:27
  DS Video: your Navy What is a Navy Strength Old Fashioned?
• 55:30
  MIC3: How is it made?
• 55:31
  MIC3: Why does
• 55:32
  DS Video: why
• 55:32
  MIC3: everyone raving about
• 55:33
  MIC1: why am I, why do I
• 55:34
  DS Video: care?
• 55:34
  MIC3: why do I care?
• 55:34
  MIC3: Yeah, yeah.
• 55:35
  MIC3: I'm reading about it everywhere.
• 55:36
  MIC2: Absolutely.
• 55:37
  MIC2: Well, uh, we, decided, uh, up front when we, were
• 55:40
  DS Video: of putting together the idea for the bar, the thought process went,"Okay, we have a name, Queen Mary.
• 55:44
  DS Video: It's
• 55:45
  MIC2: named after Maria,
• 55:46
  DS Video: the Queen
• 55:46
  MIC2: people used to call her
• 55:47
  DS Video: of Division Street, so that's the- Queen Mary.
• 55:48
  DS Video: Oh, I like it.
• 55:49
  MIC2: The Queen Mary is also an ocean liner, and the interior has a faintly, a ship's cabin,
• 55:54
  DS Video: 19th century like sailing ship's cabin-
• 55:56
  MIC3: Uh-huh
• 55:56
  MIC2: uh, atmosphere to it.
• 55:57
  MIC2: So suppose we, we do, uh, a maritime
• 56:00
  DS Video: The maritime spirits, the English maritime spirits are gin and rum
• 56:03
  MIC2: and Scotch whiskey and sherry and Madeira, right?" So those are, those are our focuses.
• 56:08
  MIC2: So we're going to-- So, so that means we need
• 56:10
  DS Video: signature cocktails.
• 56:11
  DS Video: I was very interested
• 56:12
  MIC2: in martinis, as I was just
• 56:13
  DS Video: discussing in that, in that, uh, panel before.
• 56:16
  DS Video: Um, so
• 56:17
  MIC2: that takes care of the gin side of
• 56:19
  DS Video: things.
• 56:19
  DS Video: But
• 56:19
  MIC2: then we need something for the rum side of things, and we thought,"Well, we're gonna have,
• 56:22
  DS Video: um, a make up new cocktails, uh, every so often,
• 56:25
  MIC2: but we want to have one thing
• 56:27
  DS Video: always everyone can rely on." And, uh,
• 56:31
  MIC2: we proposed,
• 56:31
  DS Video: a,
• 56:31
  MIC2: a, in a conversation with, a couple of
• 56:33
  DS Video: my, my
• 56:34
  MIC2: colleagues, uh,
• 56:35
  DS Video: well,
• 56:36
  MIC2: an Old Fashioned is
• 56:36
  DS Video: timeless.
• 56:37
  DS Video: We could, we could do an old fashioned variation.
• 56:39
  MIC2: Um, we're a gin bar and a rum bar.
• 56:40
  MIC2: What if we
• 56:40
  DS Video: a gin plus rum old fashioned?
• 56:42
  MIC2: And so it existed on
• 56:43
  DS Video: paper
• 56:44
  MIC2: before we ever knew whether it would be any good.
• 56:46
  DS Video: and
• 56:46
  MIC2: then, you know, we, we, we put
• 56:48
  DS Video: together, and we
• 56:48
  MIC2: tried various gi- uh, gins and various rums, and we,
• 56:52
  DS Video: you know, ultimately decided that this was, genuinely interesting
• 56:56
  MIC2: combo.
• 56:56
  MIC2: The gin brought a lot of citrus and spice
• 56:58
  DS Video: and notes, and then the
• 57:00
  MIC2: the rum, we use a, uh, uh, a wonderful, rich, pot-distilled, traditional
• 57:04
  DS Video: Jamaican rum that's very earthy and leathery and, and, and has a
• 57:08
  MIC2: a lot of overripe fruit.
• 57:10
  MIC2: And you put those two things together, and they are
• 57:12
  DS Video: well-rounded.
• 57:12
  DS Video: It is a well-rounded combination, and it's as satisfying as, as a bourbon Old Fashioned, am curious-
• 57:18
  MIC2: it caught us by s- it
• 57:18
  DS Video: caught us by, surprise.
• 57:19
  DS Video: I'm, I'm curious.
• 57:21
  DS Video: There's
• 57:21
  MIC1: no question.
• 57:21
  MIC2: there.
• 57:22
  MIC2: Yeah.
• 57:22
  MIC1: You've, you've, you've caught the imagination there.
• 57:24
  MIC3: so I tell you what, I don't know...
• 57:26
  MIC3: You know what?
• 57:26
  MIC3: We're not gonna put this recipe, um, up on
• 57:29
  DS Video: the show notes.
• 57:30
  DS Video: We're email
• 57:32
  MIC3: the guys at restaurantguyspodcast.com,
• 57:35
  DS Video: we will secure this recipe, and if you would like to know
• 57:38
  MIC3: what is in the number one drink in Chicago, you're gonna have to get in
• 57:41
  DS Video: with us, and we will let you know, So
• 57:44
  MIC1: one of the questions we're
• 57:45
  DS Video: everybody
• 57:45
  MIC1: here, For most of us, we had a moment in our life where
• 57:48
  DS Video: we recognized
• 57:49
  MIC1: that martini
• 57:51
  DS Video: was just
• 57:52
  MIC1: going to be an important cocktail.
• 57:54
  MIC1: It was an important cocktail in the, lexicon of cocktails and, and how important it
• 58:00
  DS Video: is and that it has its place.
• 58:02
  DS Video: What was your martini moment?
• 58:04
  DS Video: Well, I
• 58:05
  MIC2: knew that the martini had
• 58:06
  DS Video: important from watching old movies because in, Mm-hmm...in, in The Thin Man, in certainly James Bond, uh, in,
• 58:14
  MIC2: in any, in, in classical Hollywood, everyone was
• 58:16
  DS Video: martinis.
• 58:17
  DS Video: Um, but the moment that I became convinced
• 58:21
  MIC2: that they were onto
• 58:22
  DS Video: something and it was good and worthwhile and deserved to be brought back, was, was
• 58:26
  MIC2: definitely, at The Violet Hour, when,
• 58:29
  DS Video: I
• 58:29
  MIC2: ordered one with, uh, with Old Raj, which, uh,
• 58:33
  DS Video: Kevin was mentioning
• 58:34
  MIC2: earlier that they use over at, at Kitty's.
• 58:37
  DS Video: a, a
• 58:37
  MIC2: beautiful,
• 58:38
  DS Video: um, very intense, octane classic London dry gin with a hint of saffron, and it was stirred just right.
• 58:45
  DS Video: The, you know, the di- the dilution
• 58:47
  MIC2: was right.
• 58:48
  MIC2: the
• 58:48
  DS Video: bitters were in there, and I thought,"Oh,
• 58:50
  MIC2: okay.
• 58:51
  MIC2: I've never had it quite like this before." I-if you, if you get any of these little
• 58:55
  DS Video: things wrong, it's not
• 58:56
  MIC2: nearly as
• 58:57
  DS Video: but when it
• 58:57
  MIC2: all comes
• 58:58
  DS Video: it is perfection.
• 59:00
  DS Video: you know, we need to pursue this.
• 59:01
  DS Video: I love that.
• 59:02
  MIC3: I love that.
• 59:02
  DS Video: That's perfect.
• 59:03
  DS Video: I, I will also note for those of you who are watching this, that Dan, as he made his stirring motion, you could see the bar spoon in his hand
• 59:12
  MIC1: as he made the stirring
• 59:13
  DS Video: motion.
• 59:17
  MIC3: as you made this serve That's muscle memory is what that is, man.
• 59:17
  MIC3: We know you're the real deal.
• 59:17
  MIC3: Anyway, this was terrific.
• 59:18
  MIC3: Thanks for coming and joining us and talking to us.
• 59:20
  MIC3: Uh, I know there's a lot going on here at Martini
• 59:22
  DS Video: Expo, and,
• 59:23
  MIC3: uh, we have some martinis to drink.
• 59:24
  MIC3: So let's get at it.
• 59:27
  MIC3: much, Likewise.
• 59:28
  MIC3: Sure thing.
• 59:28
  MIC3: Thanks a bunch, Dan
• 59:30
  Francis: Ah, so many martinis, so little time.
• 59:33
  Francis: But don't worry, there is a part two to our Chicago Martini Expo exploits, and it's really great.
• 59:39
  Francis: We talk with Kalon Asare-Appiah about Ajabu, the African cocktail festival that's bringing this madness to a whole new continent.
• 59:47
  Francis: We talk to Francois Monti, a Belgian drinks writer, about the differences in cocktail culture in Europe and in the United States.
• 59:54
  Francis: And we talk to Ryan Maybee about, J.
• 59:57
  Francis: Rieger Distillery, a distillery he brought back, hadn't been around since Prohibition, and now it's making great whiskeys in Kansas City, along with a cocktail bar he runs there.
• 1:00:06
  Francis: And we talk about his early visit to Milk Honey and how that changed his life.
• 1:00:10
  Francis: That episode will drop on Thursday, but if you were a Restaurant Guys regular, for just six bucks a month, you could get that episode right now on early release.
• 1:00:19
  Francis: You could also get a complimentary invitation to the cocktail party we're having with Robert Simonson later this month.
• 1:00:26
  Francis: All sorts of benefits, but mostly it would be because you wanna support what we do and help us here at The Restaurant Guys.
• 1:00:32
  Francis: We would love to have you in the family.
• 1:00:33
  Francis: So we'll see you on Thursday, unless you wanna check it out early, then go to restaurantguyspodcast.com, become a podcast regular, and join the fun