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How the Underground Railroad Worked · Stuff You Should Know

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Speaker 1: Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve camera.
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Speaker 1: It's ready. Are you welcome to Stuff you Should Know
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Speaker 1: from House Stuff Works dot com? Hey, and welcome to
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Speaker 1: the podcast. I'm Josh Clark and with me as always
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Speaker 1: as Charles W. Chuck Bryant, which makes this stuff You
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Speaker 1: should know the podcast because Chuck and I are the
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Speaker 1: hosts of that hostesses no hosts, yep, Chuck, Yes, how
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Speaker 1: are you? I'm great, man, How are you? I'm fine.
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Speaker 1: It's you and I and Matt our guest producer Maddie
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Speaker 1: and alone in this entire building. Yeah. This it's uh,
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Speaker 1: the Friday before Memorial Day. Yeah, Friday afternoon even and
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Speaker 1: it's pretty empty in here, Yes it is. There's lots
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Speaker 1: of echoes that we're gonna have to adjust for and post.
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Speaker 1: Do we do post anymore? Is this like basically this
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Speaker 1: live to tape? At least we're not getting a hateful
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Speaker 1: stay or since we walked through the office. Yeah, it's refreshing,
1:05
Speaker 1: so Chuck, as you know, I grew up in Ohio.
1:09
Speaker 1: I was hoping you've mentioned this. Well, I grew up
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Speaker 1: in Ohio. Your hopes are are fulfilled. Well, another reason
1:14
Speaker 1: why well, Um, it turns out I recently learned from
1:17
Speaker 1: this article on how the underground Railroad, how the underground
1:20
Speaker 1: railroad worked. We talked about how this is gonna be problematic.
1:24
Speaker 1: Um that an estimated half of all underground railroad workers. Um,
1:31
Speaker 1: we're from Ohio or lived in Ohio. We're part of Ohio.
1:34
Speaker 1: I had no idea that, but reading that it makes
1:36
Speaker 1: sense because that was such a part of my um
1:40
Speaker 1: upbringing as a child. Everybody's house that was built in
1:44
Speaker 1: like the nineteenth or eighteenth century had like an oh,
1:48
Speaker 1: this is where they kept the freed slaves in the
1:50
Speaker 1: underground road road. Everybody's house had like a little spot
1:53
Speaker 1: that supposedly was part of the underground road heritage or
1:57
Speaker 1: some real some were um are believable than others. But
2:01
Speaker 1: normally it was like a public building or like a
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Speaker 1: National Historic registered building that like they gave tours to
2:07
Speaker 1: that was part of the underground railroad. But like everybody's
2:11
Speaker 1: house like had like a little spot in the basement
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Speaker 1: where like, yes, consumably human beings could stand here and
2:18
Speaker 1: and uh you know, hide out. But yeah, I see,
2:20
Speaker 1: I grew up in Georgia, so that we didn't have
2:23
Speaker 1: those talks no, And apparently in this article the author
2:27
Speaker 1: points out and I don't know where she got this,
2:29
Speaker 1: but um, that there's there's still blemishes on families who
2:34
Speaker 1: were known to have helped slaves on the underground road
2:37
Speaker 1: road in the South still today. I don't know if
2:41
Speaker 1: she's talking about I thought that was completely out of
2:43
Speaker 1: left field. It was I grew up in and have
2:46
Speaker 1: never heard anybody be like, yeah, that guy that lived
2:48
Speaker 1: down the street, their family used to hide slaves. Yeah,
2:53
Speaker 1: that that's not true. So so, um, but you you
2:56
Speaker 1: were familiar with the underground railroad before this article. I was,
3:00
Speaker 1: But it's a good time to point out that not
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Speaker 1: nearly enough, because black history is so glossed over in
3:07
Speaker 1: American schools except in February, except in February, and it's
3:12
Speaker 1: still even in February that I went through all my
3:14
Speaker 1: schooling with just knowing like there was an underground railroad
3:17
Speaker 1: and Harriet Tubman ran it and that's it. Period. Yeah,
3:22
Speaker 1: never learned about Malcolm X. I think dread Scott may
3:25
Speaker 1: have been mentioned briefly, but yeah, it's very sad. Yeah,
3:28
Speaker 1: and hopefully that's changed some since then. Well for the
3:32
Speaker 1: listeners who had similar experiences. Um, we're about to remedy
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Speaker 1: that because we're gonna tell you not only how it worked,
3:39
Speaker 1: we're gonna tell you in so much detail that you
3:41
Speaker 1: could conceivably go start your own right now, right. And
3:44
Speaker 1: there are some still around today. Yes. Human trafficking is
3:48
Speaker 1: the new word for UM slavery basically um where it
3:53
Speaker 1: usually it's forced into sex work right um. And there
3:58
Speaker 1: are groups who are dedicated to freeing sex workers from
4:02
Speaker 1: fourth labor. They're called Polaris, which is renaming of the
4:07
Speaker 1: North Star. Yeah. Um. And then and others. We should
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Speaker 1: do a podcast on human trafficking. I think we have
4:14
Speaker 1: a good article on that that Molly wrote, if I'm
4:17
Speaker 1: not mistaken. Oh really yeah, okay, you're ready, Yeah, let's
4:21
Speaker 1: do it all right, so chuck. Um. Basically, the the
4:24
Speaker 1: origins of the underground railroad, which was the network by
4:31
Speaker 1: which escaped slaves ran along to freedom, almost always to
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Speaker 1: Canada if they were going north. As it turns out,
4:39
Speaker 1: UM probably started before the eighteen twenties. Um, but it
4:46
Speaker 1: couldn't have possibly been called the underground road road until
4:49
Speaker 1: after the eighteen twenties because the actual railroad system wasn't
4:53
Speaker 1: invented until them either that or they were like way
4:55
Speaker 1: ahead of their time, but it may have had some
4:58
Speaker 1: sort of name. And we know that there were groups
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Speaker 1: of people who were formed for the common purpose of
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Speaker 1: aiding escaped slaves to go secure freedom, to get out
5:09
Speaker 1: of the South, or get out of a slave state
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Speaker 1: into protection in a non slave state. Because George Washington
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Speaker 1: complained about it in a letter in seventeen eighty six
5:19
Speaker 1: that he suspected some Quakers that helped some of his
5:22
Speaker 1: slaves escape. He was probably right on the money, tail, yeah,
5:25
Speaker 1: because Quakers were one of the earliest members of the
5:29
Speaker 1: underground Railroad and they were the um most trusted because
5:34
Speaker 1: they were so recognizable and everybody knew, hey, Quakers will
5:37
Speaker 1: help you out. Definitely the most trusted white people for sure. Um.
5:41
Speaker 1: We but we should probably point out, um, the reason
5:45
Speaker 1: everybody went to Canada was because there was a federal
5:48
Speaker 1: law in the US. Right, that's right. What was it called.
5:51
Speaker 1: It was called the Fugitive Slave Act of seventeen ninety three,
5:56
Speaker 1: and uh, it was around since seventeen ninety three, but
6:00
Speaker 1: it really got its teeth in eighteen fifty when it's
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Speaker 1: strengthened the fines and basically made um helping a slave
6:08
Speaker 1: escape a federal crime, and then uh in non slave
6:12
Speaker 1: states as well, and uh pretty much meant if you
6:17
Speaker 1: were caught as a slave, you were going to be
6:18
Speaker 1: put to death and likely tortured in a public place.
6:22
Speaker 1: And maybe even your slave family or friends that you
6:26
Speaker 1: were with on the plantation were also punished, even though
6:29
Speaker 1: they didn't try to escape. So anyone involved in this
6:32
Speaker 1: and even not being involved, but being involved by relationship
6:35
Speaker 1: or something like that, UM, really had a lot to
6:39
Speaker 1: lose from this one person making it to freedom, which
6:42
Speaker 1: really um is it's just very heartening when you look
6:46
Speaker 1: back on what these people did. They risked a lot.
6:49
Speaker 1: Um in the eighteen fifties stiffening of the Slave Act, right, Um,
6:56
Speaker 1: if you armed a slave, which was routinely done because
7:00
Speaker 1: this is dangerous, UM, then you were subject to execution,
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Speaker 1: no matter who you were, white, black, whatever um that
7:09
Speaker 1: was that was punishable by being executed. So people who
7:11
Speaker 1: were helping escape slaves were putting a lot on the line,
7:15
Speaker 1: right Yeah. And and one of the myths, there's a
7:17
Speaker 1: few myths that even this article kind of uh perpetuates
7:20
Speaker 1: a bit, but um rarely or not rarely, but more
7:24
Speaker 1: often than not, they were other black people or former
7:28
Speaker 1: slaves or current slaves helping the other slaves on the
7:31
Speaker 1: underground railroad. It was not a big happy group of
7:34
Speaker 1: white northern abolitionists risking their life to help out the slaves.
7:38
Speaker 1: They did that some, but it was usually quakers um
7:42
Speaker 1: or you know, like I said before, slaves or former slaves. Okay,
7:47
Speaker 1: so that's one myth. There's a few others. Well, let's
7:51
Speaker 1: go through this. What what did it an escape look
7:53
Speaker 1: like right along the underground railroad during its height in
7:56
Speaker 1: the mid nineteenth century. Uh, what would happen was free
8:01
Speaker 1: black people would send a field agent, what they called
8:04
Speaker 1: the field agent um. It was a lot of times
8:06
Speaker 1: a minister or a doctor posing as like a census
8:09
Speaker 1: taker to anybody who could move throughout a community undetected.
8:13
Speaker 1: So they would make contact with a current slave who
8:17
Speaker 1: supposedly wanted to escape, and they had to gain their trust,
8:20
Speaker 1: because this whole thing was about trust. You really had
8:23
Speaker 1: to trust because people would sell out their own own
8:26
Speaker 1: kind to gain favor with with the master sometimes, so
8:31
Speaker 1: sometimes you couldn't even trust your fellow slave, so you
8:34
Speaker 1: really had to gain their trust as the field agent
8:35
Speaker 1: and then they would eventually, once that trust was gained,
8:38
Speaker 1: arranged for the escape from the plantation to travel to
8:44
Speaker 1: the first safe house to a conductor. Actually, I'm sorry,
8:48
Speaker 1: they passed along to the conductor who would take you
8:51
Speaker 1: to your first station. Yes, and that was the beginning
8:54
Speaker 1: of the journey, right. And the station was basically somebody's
8:58
Speaker 1: house usually yeah, um, and the head of the household
9:01
Speaker 1: as a station master. And that was somebody who was
9:04
Speaker 1: putting his life, in the life of his family's on
9:08
Speaker 1: the line, feed and housed and hide this person for
9:12
Speaker 1: a little while. Um, possibly set him up with the disguise,
9:15
Speaker 1: which um they got fairly Um. Yes, there's there's a
9:23
Speaker 1: story of one in a UM apparently with a seminal
9:26
Speaker 1: work on the Underground Railroad appropriately titled The Underground Railroad,
9:31
Speaker 1: written by Wilburt Sea Bird right, and he talks about how, um,
9:35
Speaker 1: a black woman was basically made up to look like
9:39
Speaker 1: a wealthy white woman and to complete this disguise, was
9:43
Speaker 1: given a white baby, um too for her journey. Yeah.
9:48
Speaker 1: So people were, you know, fanatic about this. I read
9:52
Speaker 1: another one, UM, a couple from Savannah. Um. The woman
9:57
Speaker 1: was the daughter of the slave, her slave owner and
10:01
Speaker 1: her mother was a slave, a house servant ever, UM.
10:05
Speaker 1: So she was light skinned, so they had her pose
10:09
Speaker 1: as a frail, aging white man, and her husband posed
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Speaker 1: as like a you know, a loyal servant slave UM
10:18
Speaker 1: on their journey all the way from Savanna to I
10:20
Speaker 1: think Philadelphia or Boston. UM. But yeah, that was kind
10:24
Speaker 1: of harrowing. Apparently they were almost found out a bunch
10:27
Speaker 1: of times. Yeah, so I can imagine, like just trying
10:31
Speaker 1: to escape through the woods is scary enough, trying to
10:34
Speaker 1: escape disguised in plain sight has to just be nerve racking,
10:38
Speaker 1: you know, especially the lady with a white baby, because
10:41
Speaker 1: I imagine that whoever might have found her out would
10:43
Speaker 1: not have been too happy about that at the time.
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Speaker 1: At least along the way if you did maybe encounter
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Speaker 1: a train conductor who found you out but was willing
10:51
Speaker 1: to keep his mouth shut for money, you needed money.
10:55
Speaker 1: Most slaves didn't have money because they were not paid um.
10:59
Speaker 1: And uh this was I guess at the station. The
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Speaker 1: station master might also hook you up with some money
11:06
Speaker 1: that came from what are called stockholders UM. And stockholders
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Speaker 1: were probably wealthy abolitionists who didn't really want to get
11:12
Speaker 1: their hands dirty. But we're happy to support the cause financially. True, right, yeah,
11:18
Speaker 1: And I didn't get I mean, were they just people
11:20
Speaker 1: who supported the cause basically financially, yeah, but you know
11:24
Speaker 1: obviously in their in their hearts as well. Uh, now
11:28
Speaker 1: I know what you mean. Though they didn't risk you know,
11:30
Speaker 1: walking people through the woods. No. And abolitionists, despite you know,
11:34
Speaker 1: they're they're desire to end slavery were frequently accused, and
11:40
Speaker 1: rightfully so in a lot of cases of you know, saying, well,
11:43
Speaker 1: we we think slavery is vomitable, but you're freed, and
11:47
Speaker 1: that's great, but go live over there. We still want
11:50
Speaker 1: to just have our very lily white parties and lives
11:52
Speaker 1: and all that. Um. And there were a lot of
11:56
Speaker 1: abolitions like that. So I would imagine that just giving
11:59
Speaker 1: money two people to use for bribes or for travel
12:03
Speaker 1: or you know, to support these station houses probably really
12:07
Speaker 1: you know, hit home. It's the same thing today, like
12:09
Speaker 1: people don't go help like, say, the homeless, you're resolving
12:12
Speaker 1: your guilt, they give money to, you know, organizations that
12:16
Speaker 1: actually deal with the homeless. I think that this was
12:18
Speaker 1: very similar to that. I think you're probably right. Uh, runaways,
12:22
Speaker 1: um usually didn't travel alone, although again I read somewhere
12:26
Speaker 1: else on on one of the websites that a lot
12:28
Speaker 1: of times they were alone. Um, But when they weren't,
12:31
Speaker 1: they would have a conductor guide them to the next station,
12:34
Speaker 1: usually about a day away. They didn't want to make
12:36
Speaker 1: it like, you know, a three day journey because it
12:38
Speaker 1: just you know, you you probably don't have tons of
12:40
Speaker 1: food and water, and it's just more dangerous the further
12:43
Speaker 1: you're going, right, not between station houses. The journey itself
12:46
Speaker 1: to freedom last days, weeks, months. Yeah, each each station
12:50
Speaker 1: was about a day away. Ideally they would follow the
12:53
Speaker 1: north Star. Yeah, that's that's why that one, um modern hilarious. Yeah,
12:59
Speaker 1: that's why it's called that circle. When the clouds were out. Um,
13:04
Speaker 1: there's the old trick of looking where the moss grows
13:07
Speaker 1: because on tree trunks, moss usually grows on the north side,
13:10
Speaker 1: and you wanted to be headed north. There were instances
13:13
Speaker 1: where because they made it a very zig zagging route
13:16
Speaker 1: usually you know, they didn't want to make it a
13:18
Speaker 1: straight line. So it made it easier to track, but
13:20
Speaker 1: it also made it easier to get lost as a slave.
13:24
Speaker 1: It did. And actually there's a sidebar towards the end
13:27
Speaker 1: of this talking about quilt patterns and there are codes
13:31
Speaker 1: embedded within. I I found a substantial amount of it.
13:37
Speaker 1: Rele see, I found stuff saying that was like mythical
13:40
Speaker 1: that in the songs. Check out um os black history
13:43
Speaker 1: dot com. They have this list, this key of like
13:47
Speaker 1: what all of these different quilt patterns are and what
13:49
Speaker 1: they meant. Um two slaves who came upon a quilt
13:53
Speaker 1: and one of them was this um kind of zigzagged X.
13:57
Speaker 1: It's called them the drunken Path And basically it's saying
14:01
Speaker 1: like going his zigzag pattern because there's guys out there's
14:05
Speaker 1: slave hunters around, and if you say turned started walking south,
14:09
Speaker 1: they would be less likely to suspect that you were
14:12
Speaker 1: an escaped slave if you look like you were purposefully
14:15
Speaker 1: walking south, because what slave walk south? That's where the
14:18
Speaker 1: south is, right, right? But I mean, if it is
14:21
Speaker 1: made up, this guy did a good job of perpetuating
14:23
Speaker 1: it because it's very interesting. Well, even in here it
14:26
Speaker 1: says it's it's one of the well known legends or not.
14:29
Speaker 1: They just don't know because a lot of this stuff,
14:31
Speaker 1: and it's good that you bring that up. A lot
14:34
Speaker 1: we don't know about because the underground railroad was secret,
14:37
Speaker 1: so we don't know about a lot of the places.
14:39
Speaker 1: We don't know a lot of the routes or the
14:40
Speaker 1: people who worked there, or who actually started it. Oh
14:44
Speaker 1: and Josh also I mentioned the moss on the trees.
14:47
Speaker 1: Clear knights were better to see the stars, but traveling
14:49
Speaker 1: in the rain was pretty good too, because fat white
14:53
Speaker 1: plantation owner probably wanted to be inside by the fire
14:56
Speaker 1: when it was raining and not chasing after his slaves.
15:00
Speaker 1: So let's talk about um the laws. We we mentioned
15:04
Speaker 1: it kind of specifically UM earlier about some of the
15:08
Speaker 1: I guess the punishment that that could befall anyone helping somebody, right, Um,
15:14
Speaker 1: And in see the Fugitive Slave Act, UM basically created
15:20
Speaker 1: the first laws that said this an escape slave can
15:24
Speaker 1: be gone and gotten legally. Right. But there were slave
15:28
Speaker 1: states and there were non slave states, and the non
15:31
Speaker 1: slave states said, well, yeah, that's a great law, and
15:34
Speaker 1: you do whatever you want down in the South, but
15:36
Speaker 1: we're not really going to enforce it, and when we do,
15:39
Speaker 1: it's going to be very light. Well, in eighteen fifty,
15:43
Speaker 1: this thing got a lot of teeth, um, like you
15:46
Speaker 1: were saying, and the fines were that were stepped up.
15:49
Speaker 1: The penalties were harsher execution. UM was it was a
15:53
Speaker 1: lot more UM doable, I guess. And then um, it
15:59
Speaker 1: also became illegal for slave hunters to walk into a
16:02
Speaker 1: free state, a non slave state and be like, Hey,
16:05
Speaker 1: that black guy right there, I think he's an escaped slave.
16:07
Speaker 1: He should come with me to anybody he could legally
16:11
Speaker 1: claim it without having to justify even if they were
16:13
Speaker 1: free men. Yes, um. And apparently there were rumors of
16:16
Speaker 1: like slave traders like luring um, young black kids in
16:22
Speaker 1: free states onto boats and then like taking them off
16:25
Speaker 1: to the Deep South. It's like, what are you gonna do?
16:27
Speaker 1: How are you gonna find these people? There's no documentation
16:30
Speaker 1: like this. Um. So basically the North came to really
16:33
Speaker 1: resent this change in the law in eighteen fifty because
16:38
Speaker 1: people who were complacent living in non slave states suddenly
16:42
Speaker 1: we're kind of having slavery imposed upon them a little more.
16:45
Speaker 1: And then the dread Scott case like you mentioned earlier,
16:48
Speaker 1: that really sealed the deal and really got abolitionists. UM.
16:53
Speaker 1: I guess their their roles expanded tremendously after that. And
16:57
Speaker 1: then as a result, also the underground railroad became much
17:00
Speaker 1: more organized yeah, that is dread Scott v. Sandford, and uh.
17:05
Speaker 1: It was famous because dread Scott, a slave, sued for
17:09
Speaker 1: his freedom for himself and his wife and his two daughters,
17:13
Speaker 1: and on the grounds that they lived quite a bit
17:17
Speaker 1: of their lives in places like Wisconsin and Minnesota, in
17:21
Speaker 1: these outlying Northwest territories that or northern territories that had
17:25
Speaker 1: where it was illegal. Slavery was actually illegal. So he
17:28
Speaker 1: sued on those grounds, and in one of probably the
17:31
Speaker 1: worst Supreme Court decisions in the history of this country,
17:34
Speaker 1: they decided because the panel was full of Southerners. The
17:39
Speaker 1: panel Supreme Court justices were a lot of Southerners, and
17:43
Speaker 1: they ruled it Black people were not or people of
17:46
Speaker 1: African descent were not citizens of the United States, free
17:50
Speaker 1: or not, they are not citizens. Therefore they cannot sue
17:53
Speaker 1: for their freedom right. They don't have any rights, so
17:57
Speaker 1: they can be basically captured and taken to yes, a
18:00
Speaker 1: life of slavery again. But if it hadn't been for
18:02
Speaker 1: the dread Scott case, we may never have well we
18:06
Speaker 1: may have, but it really sped up the process of
18:08
Speaker 1: the Thirteenth Amendment in the Emancipation Proclamation, and hence the
18:11
Speaker 1: Civil War and hence the Civil War, and some of
18:14
Speaker 1: his descendants still live in St. Louis today. Well, shout
18:18
Speaker 1: out to the Scots of St. Louis. UM and Chuck,
18:22
Speaker 1: we said that this this um precipitated the Civil War.
18:26
Speaker 1: The underground railroad helped move it along. The dread Scott case.
18:29
Speaker 1: It it basically these things, Um, Northerners actively subverting federal law. UM.
18:37
Speaker 1: And the South economic cloud really ticked the South off
18:42
Speaker 1: the the South imposing its views on slavery on the
18:46
Speaker 1: North through this eighteen fifty strengthening and the dread Scott case. UM,
18:51
Speaker 1: it really ticked off the North. So this division was
18:55
Speaker 1: was Um. It's very much part of what led up
18:58
Speaker 1: to the Civil War. Yeah, pencil any even I thought
19:01
Speaker 1: about ah nullifying the Fugitive Slave Act. They didn't like
19:06
Speaker 1: it so much, But then they decided, you know, a
19:08
Speaker 1: better way to do this. It's probably to be subversive
19:11
Speaker 1: and to support things like the underground railroad on the
19:13
Speaker 1: down low, rather than cause some big political snake write
19:16
Speaker 1: a check. Exactly right. Um. So we say that because
19:23
Speaker 1: the Civil Wars. Whenever you ask a kid, you know
19:26
Speaker 1: why the Civil War happened? So slavery. I mean, that's
19:30
Speaker 1: a that's a big part of it. But that's why
19:32
Speaker 1: it's not just slavery. It wasn't like the North was like,
19:35
Speaker 1: slavery is wrong and we're gonna go to war with
19:37
Speaker 1: you over it, or the South was like, we love slavery,
19:40
Speaker 1: We're not part of you any longer. Although the latter
19:44
Speaker 1: I've heard recently was um much closer to the point
19:47
Speaker 1: that the South was perfectly happy with succeeding creating its
19:50
Speaker 1: own country and basically creating an economic empire based on
19:54
Speaker 1: free labor, that that took over the entire Caribbean, and
19:57
Speaker 1: that the Southern US. Yeah, I wish I was more
20:01
Speaker 1: of a civil war. Buff. I'm glad you're not. Chuck. Yeah,
20:05
Speaker 1: they're I wouldn't say obnoxious, but man, do they know
20:08
Speaker 1: a lot about the Civil War and they like correcting
20:10
Speaker 1: people too. Yeah, and we're going to hear from them,
20:14
Speaker 1: so Chuck. Um. When you did finally make it out
20:17
Speaker 1: along this this route um up to the northern the
20:20
Speaker 1: extreme Northern States, the northern part of the Extreme Northern States,
20:25
Speaker 1: and to Canada. Um, it could take days, weeks, months,
20:30
Speaker 1: It could take twenty four hours if you happen to
20:32
Speaker 1: have the money and the gaul to ride a train,
20:35
Speaker 1: or if you live in a border state. Yeah, which
20:38
Speaker 1: apparently is why a lot of slaves never escaped from
20:41
Speaker 1: the Deep South. It was longer ago, and they didn't.
20:45
Speaker 1: They wouldn't have taken the underground railroad which went exclusively north.
20:48
Speaker 1: I believe they would have gone to Florida or to Mexico.
20:52
Speaker 1: Never knew that. So Mexico in eighty nine outlawed slavery
20:55
Speaker 1: and became active in protecting slaves who escaped to Mexico. Yeah.
21:00
Speaker 1: Native American Indians go figure, we're very empathetic. They were
21:05
Speaker 1: probably like, join the club, my man, come on in
21:09
Speaker 1: almost literally chuck so in Florida in Spain said we're
21:15
Speaker 1: issuing a decree here that says any any slave or
21:19
Speaker 1: Native American who leaves an English colony and makes it
21:23
Speaker 1: to Florida is a free Floridian, a free a free
21:27
Speaker 1: member of the Spanish crown. Right right. All we want
21:30
Speaker 1: from you is that you convert to a Catholic convert
21:33
Speaker 1: to Catholicism, and become a member of the military for
21:36
Speaker 1: a prescribed amount of time, right um, And in return,
21:40
Speaker 1: you're a citizen here, right. So that's why Florida attracted
21:43
Speaker 1: a bunch of people. And the reason they did it
21:45
Speaker 1: was specifically to attract people from um England, the English
21:49
Speaker 1: territories like Georgia or South Carolina, because they wanted to
21:52
Speaker 1: jump start the economic engine, but they weren't going to
21:54
Speaker 1: do it on slavery. Right. I wonder what impact that
21:58
Speaker 1: has today. I wonder if there are more are African
22:00
Speaker 1: American Catholics in Florida proportionately because of that. Well, one
22:04
Speaker 1: of the impacts that it had that's still around the
22:06
Speaker 1: day are the Seminoles. The Seminoles were a recent tribe
22:09
Speaker 1: that started in about the eighteenth century um based on
22:13
Speaker 1: displaced Creek Indians who made it to Florida to take
22:16
Speaker 1: Spain up on their offer and escaped slaves. And now
22:20
Speaker 1: there's a division in the Seminole tribe between Black Seminoles
22:23
Speaker 1: and Red Seminoles, and it's not they don't always get along.
22:26
Speaker 1: But during this time, the Seminole Indians came up because
22:31
Speaker 1: in a lot of cases, black slaves, freed slaves or
22:34
Speaker 1: escaped slaves would come up to an Indian Indian sentiment,
22:37
Speaker 1: lived near it or be absorbed into it and that's
22:40
Speaker 1: where the seminoles came from. That's pretty cool, didn't it.
22:43
Speaker 1: There's really one jerk in this whole thing, and that's
22:45
Speaker 1: that's Yeah, our ancestors. They were white Northerners too. It's
22:51
Speaker 1: not all in the South, white jerk, white Northerners probably.
22:56
Speaker 1: Uh yeah, Anyway, I'm just always stick up for the South. Well,
23:00
Speaker 1: think about it that there were an estimated two thousand
23:02
Speaker 1: to three thousand underground railroad workers there. There are a
23:08
Speaker 1: lot more people in the US and the North and
23:10
Speaker 1: the South than that at the time. Buddy. Yeah, that's
23:12
Speaker 1: a good point. Uh. It is interesting though to me
23:15
Speaker 1: that you said Canada, because that was where many of
23:17
Speaker 1: them ended up. And I never knew that. I never
23:19
Speaker 1: knew that. And it made sense because why go to Pennsylvania,
23:25
Speaker 1: even though they're sympathetic to a certain degree, when the
23:28
Speaker 1: Fugitive Slave Act still is hanging over my head and
23:30
Speaker 1: somebody could turn me in for some dough if they
23:32
Speaker 1: wanted to. Yeah, let's just go to Canada where they
23:35
Speaker 1: don't care and they don't have those laws. Plus, I mean,
23:38
Speaker 1: it's not like you're gonna just stop in Detroit. You're
23:41
Speaker 1: gonna be like, oh no, I'm gonna keep moving to Canada.
23:45
Speaker 1: So we were saying that there there was some involvement
23:48
Speaker 1: by some people. There was UM separate involvement, disconnected involvement, whatever.
23:54
Speaker 1: But some of the people, some of these abolitionists UM
23:57
Speaker 1: and freed slaves UM and escaped slave who have made
24:00
Speaker 1: lives for themselves UM formed in these northern non slave
24:04
Speaker 1: states and enclaves of where where of an escaped slave
24:08
Speaker 1: can feel very free, like Boston, Philadelphia, UM, I think
24:11
Speaker 1: New York. Um. They formed these things called vigilance committees. Right, Yeah,
24:15
Speaker 1: it's very nice. They provided like some protection for them, uh,
24:20
Speaker 1: try to get them work, try to get them a
24:22
Speaker 1: place to live. And so you know, it's just sort
24:25
Speaker 1: of like, hey, now you're you're safe now, and we're
24:28
Speaker 1: gonna help you set up life as an American. Yeah,
24:32
Speaker 1: and get something that everyone in this country should be
24:36
Speaker 1: born with, which is freedom. Right. And here's a credit
24:39
Speaker 1: card to enslave you in a different way that came
24:43
Speaker 1: later and that touched all races. It did, so, Chuck,
24:48
Speaker 1: there's um one one person who kind of rose above
24:52
Speaker 1: all others as far as the underground railroad went. And
24:54
Speaker 1: her name was Harriet Tubman. She was, she wasn't. It
24:58
Speaker 1: is still referred to as the Moses of for people. Yeah,
25:00
Speaker 1: it is not a cliche to bring up Harriet Tubman,
25:03
Speaker 1: as you know, like, of course you're gonna bring up
25:05
Speaker 1: ry Tubman. Of course we are, because she was the
25:08
Speaker 1: Moses of her people, and she was an escaped slave
25:11
Speaker 1: from Maryland, and very sadly I went back to get
25:13
Speaker 1: her family and helped them escape. Found her husband had
25:16
Speaker 1: a new wife, and he was like, yeah, um to
25:20
Speaker 1: stay here. Yeah, and she wasn't too happy with that, clearly,
25:25
Speaker 1: so she reportedly books say, um kind of hardened her
25:29
Speaker 1: a little bit, which in the end helped her because
25:33
Speaker 1: you sort of needed a bit of a hard heart
25:35
Speaker 1: to lead people on the underground railroad. You didn't need
25:39
Speaker 1: whiners and criers and people that would draw attention and
25:42
Speaker 1: make noise. Yeah. Apparently she would threaten to kill people
25:45
Speaker 1: if they didn't shut up. Yeah, like, quiet down, I'm
25:47
Speaker 1: trying to get you to freedom. Just shut up about
25:50
Speaker 1: it was her was her motto, officially, I think, And
25:52
Speaker 1: she was individually probably the most successful uh conductor on
25:57
Speaker 1: the underground railroad, right, Yeah, I think uh at least
26:01
Speaker 1: seventy slaves um that she led to freedom to New
26:04
Speaker 1: York and Canada personally thirteen journeys, and these are long trips.
26:08
Speaker 1: We'll think about it. Also, she's an escaped slave. She
26:11
Speaker 1: goes back into slave states thirteen times to guide people out.
26:17
Speaker 1: She bad, She's a big bad mama. She Uh. She
26:21
Speaker 1: went on to serve as a spy, as a scout,
26:23
Speaker 1: and a nurse for the Union Army and received no
26:26
Speaker 1: military wartime pension for that, even though she was Harriet
26:29
Speaker 1: Tubman and um went on to sell fruits and vegetables
26:33
Speaker 1: door to door. You're joking, and wrote a book and
26:36
Speaker 1: lived off profits from her book. She actually made money
26:38
Speaker 1: off of which is good the US as a Yeah, so, Chuck,
26:46
Speaker 1: you want to talk about how many people were let out?
26:49
Speaker 1: We were. We We mentioned Harriet Tubman l at least
26:51
Speaker 1: seventy personally. UM and estimates very wildly as to how
26:56
Speaker 1: many people escaped. UM. As we said, the heyday of
26:59
Speaker 1: the underground road road was eighteen twenties to the eighteen
27:03
Speaker 1: sixties day. UM. Some some people maintain about a hundred
27:08
Speaker 1: thousand people escaped, which is that's huge. UM. On the
27:12
Speaker 1: other end, UH, the journal Black Studies estimates of between
27:16
Speaker 1: eighteen thirty and sixty UM, only about two thousand people
27:19
Speaker 1: escaped via underground road road. The National Park Service settled
27:24
Speaker 1: somewhere in the middle and says, yeah, let's say a
27:26
Speaker 1: thousand per year. But again it's very secretive. People have
27:31
Speaker 1: no idea who was who, whether a house really was
27:34
Speaker 1: a stop. There are some places that are most decidedly
27:38
Speaker 1: UM parts of the underground road road that are still
27:41
Speaker 1: around today, like the Dobbin Horse Tavern and Gettysburg, Pennsylvania
27:45
Speaker 1: has movable bookcase that people used to hide in. It
27:48
Speaker 1: was a house at the time, UM. But because of
27:51
Speaker 1: the secrecy, because of the success of it of it, UM,
27:54
Speaker 1: we we have no idea you know, who was a
27:56
Speaker 1: part of it, who wasn't. And that's pretty neat, I think.
28:00
Speaker 1: But there's the National Park Services really spent a lot
28:04
Speaker 1: of time and effort and money so far UM figuring out,
28:08
Speaker 1: you know, where the underground railroad ran and who is
28:11
Speaker 1: a part of it, and what buildings were going to
28:12
Speaker 1: preserve the buildings and there's a there's actually a bike
28:15
Speaker 1: um trail that you can ride I think, or something
28:20
Speaker 1: like that along established identified underground railroad routes. Yeah, pretty cool.
28:26
Speaker 1: You know you. I just wanted to point out when
28:28
Speaker 1: you said the our checkered history, America's checkered history. I
28:32
Speaker 1: still feel England's stank on this. Yeah, that was early
28:36
Speaker 1: enough to wear. It wasn't like you know, rednecks from
28:39
Speaker 1: the south this. These are still like English fops doing
28:41
Speaker 1: this stuff. So I blame England, You blame England. I'm
28:46
Speaker 1: trying to figure out when my my line is drawn
28:49
Speaker 1: and when I'm saying this was America because even after
28:51
Speaker 1: the Revolutionary where it was still just people from England
28:54
Speaker 1: living here. Okay, so England is your fault. Take that
29:00
Speaker 1: to England and it's Canada the big hero to you
29:03
Speaker 1: and this. Yeah, of course, man, you know that's still
29:06
Speaker 1: a territory of the English crown. Yeah to you on
29:09
Speaker 1: that one, pal, I don't know what to think. Um
29:12
Speaker 1: so wait, wait before we go, we have to mention
29:14
Speaker 1: John Brown. We talked about how like a lot of
29:17
Speaker 1: people were like, here's some money, I'll be a stockholder
29:19
Speaker 1: in the underground road road and impress my friends. John
29:22
Speaker 1: Brown walked the walk he lived in like freed black colonies.
29:27
Speaker 1: He um, if he didn't do it himself, he oversaw
29:30
Speaker 1: the murder of five unarmed pro slavery UM settlers in Kansas,
29:36
Speaker 1: which is up for grabs between slavery and in a
29:38
Speaker 1: non slavery state. UM. And he basically turned into a
29:42
Speaker 1: guerrilla and staged raids on pro slavery settlements and killed
29:45
Speaker 1: lots of people. UM. And then he staged with the
29:48
Speaker 1: raid on Harper's ferry uh and was eventually caught and
29:52
Speaker 1: hanged for it. But he was as far as the
29:54
Speaker 1: abolitionists go, he was like, um, he he was, I
29:58
Speaker 1: guess you could say equal to Harriet Tubman as far
30:01
Speaker 1: as in the abolitionist camp where she was in the
30:04
Speaker 1: freed slaves camp, she was hands on and did it.
30:08
Speaker 1: Did you hear the box car guy who who packed
30:11
Speaker 1: himself up in a box and had himself ship to Philadelphia? No,
30:13
Speaker 1: did it work? Yeah? Awesome. He had like some biscuits
30:16
Speaker 1: and a little bit of water and some air holes
30:19
Speaker 1: and his I think his nickname is box Car. I
30:21
Speaker 1: can't remember his full name. But they, you know, opened
30:24
Speaker 1: up the crate in Philadelphia and he climbed out and
30:26
Speaker 1: they were like, congratulations, your holy can't so the bravery,
30:31
Speaker 1: I mean, not just the slaves themselves, people who helped
30:34
Speaker 1: I mean, the bravery of these people at the time
30:36
Speaker 1: cannot be understated, agreed, because you were getting tortured and
30:40
Speaker 1: killed if you were caught and all for your freedom.
30:43
Speaker 1: That's all you were looking for. Pretty heavy stuff. Yes, So, Chuck,
30:48
Speaker 1: if they want to learn more about the underground railroad,
30:52
Speaker 1: they should type in underground railroad in the search bar,
30:55
Speaker 1: how stuff works dot com rang um, and then of
30:58
Speaker 1: course brings up listener email. And you know, I bet
31:03
Speaker 1: the ladies from stuff you miss in history class have
31:05
Speaker 1: probably done one on this already, and so I would
31:08
Speaker 1: seek that out for another angle, because sometimes we double up,
31:12
Speaker 1: and it's always good to hear different angles on these things.
31:15
Speaker 1: And they're a great joke too, and you can compare
31:17
Speaker 1: it word for word eventually by comparing the transcripts on
31:20
Speaker 1: the blogs. Right, They're like they were a lot more
31:22
Speaker 1: factual than Chuck and Josh. All right, Josh, I'm gonna
31:25
Speaker 1: call this critical email from Katie. We don't read a
31:28
Speaker 1: lot of criticisms much, but this was very specific, so
31:32
Speaker 1: I thought we would. Hi, Chuck and Josh, I'm a
31:34
Speaker 1: new listener, but it recently listened to about sixty of
31:37
Speaker 1: your shows. I am thirty one years old and work
31:39
Speaker 1: as a film cruiser. You guys have really grown on
31:43
Speaker 1: me slowly. The concept of the show is the best part.
31:46
Speaker 1: I think there are a few things that keeping or
31:48
Speaker 1: keeping you guys from really going big and would like
31:50
Speaker 1: to share my thoughts. First, I think the podcast are
31:53
Speaker 1: a bit slow and have a few too many personal
31:55
Speaker 1: jokes every time Chuck has a personal story to go
31:58
Speaker 1: along with the topic. This is the least inner, painting
32:00
Speaker 1: and interesting. Your personal relationships to the topic are mundane. Sorry,
32:05
Speaker 1: this should be cut. The banter is good. You are
32:07
Speaker 1: clearly smart and witty, and that is enough to keep
32:09
Speaker 1: the listener engaged. Josh, your intros are so boring. Why
32:13
Speaker 1: not mix it up and or cut the small talk?
32:16
Speaker 1: I fast forward past it every time. And I think
32:19
Speaker 1: your listener mail is the worst part of the podcast.
32:21
Speaker 1: I think you lose at least half, if not more,
32:23
Speaker 1: of your listeners at this part. Save that stuff for
32:26
Speaker 1: the blog. The podcasts themselves need to be solid and tight.
32:29
Speaker 1: The production value fails in comparison to This American Life
32:32
Speaker 1: or Planet Money. For these reasons, I would highly suggest
32:36
Speaker 1: getting a new producer taking pot SATs at Jerry. That's
32:40
Speaker 1: just so wrong. You need a makeover big time. You
32:43
Speaker 1: need new music in your intros and throughout the show,
32:46
Speaker 1: perhaps sound effects and more out of studio commentary. Some
32:49
Speaker 1: of my favorite podcast our Saunas, Hangovers, Cremation, Sharpless, Reincarnation, Mummies,
32:55
Speaker 1: and Altitude basically go be Radio Lab. I listened to
32:59
Speaker 1: your Guatemala pieces while I was traveling Guatemala last week.
33:03
Speaker 1: Pretty cool in hopes of supplementing my education about the
33:06
Speaker 1: country while traveling there. But you failed miserably. Actually, she
33:10
Speaker 1: says it failed miserable. I get the point though. Uh.
33:14
Speaker 1: They were my least favorite podcast you guys have done,
33:17
Speaker 1: and I think you genuinely wasted your listeners time with
33:20
Speaker 1: your personal, pointless stories about your free vacation. I was
33:23
Speaker 1: shocked to learn how small your perspective of the world is,
33:27
Speaker 1: considering how often you both write and research about the world.
33:29
Speaker 1: Your impressions of Guatemala sounded like you've never left the South. Uh.
33:33
Speaker 1: They were naive and not worthy of two hours of
33:35
Speaker 1: my time. On the other hand, it was fantastic to
33:39
Speaker 1: listen how volcanoes work while climbing volcanoes in Antigua. This
33:43
Speaker 1: is what you guys are best at. And you need
33:45
Speaker 1: to stick to this, but it needs to be better. Seriously,
33:49
Speaker 1: you have mastered the podcast medium, but there is so
33:51
Speaker 1: much potential yet to be tapped. And she says taped,
33:55
Speaker 1: but I guess she needs tapped. I hope you guys
33:57
Speaker 1: continue to make great podcast and that you really up
34:00
Speaker 1: the production value. Thank you, Katie M. P s. I
34:04
Speaker 1: happen to own a house in Turkey and have spent
34:06
Speaker 1: much time in Turkish baths. You define them incorrectly in
34:09
Speaker 1: your song and podcast. Who is that? Katie? Katie M.
34:14
Speaker 1: Thank you Katie for the tips. We appreciate the insight
34:18
Speaker 1: and thanks for listening. We don't know why, but thank
34:22
Speaker 1: you for listening. All right, Well we've mastered the medium, okay,
34:25
Speaker 1: except for like the fifty points. Well, if you have
34:29
Speaker 1: in any pointers for us or tips, we want to
34:31
Speaker 1: hear them. We're always open to that kind of thing,
34:34
Speaker 1: So shoot us an email at Stuff Podcast at how
34:38
Speaker 1: stuff works dot com. Be sure to check out our
34:46
Speaker 1: new video podcast, Stuff from the Future. Join how Stuff
34:49
Speaker 1: Work staff as we explore the most promising and perplexing
34:52
Speaker 1: possibilities of tomorrow, brought to you by the Reinvented two
34:58
Speaker 1: thousand twelve camera. It's ready. Are you