Latest / Doug Has Questions / Episode 46: Susie McCartney; From A Deadhead to Chilkat Guide to Hypnotherapy

Transcript

Episode 46: Susie McCartney; From A Deadhead to Chilkat Guide to Hypnotherapy · Doug Has Questions

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_05: Welcome to this uh episode of Doug Has Questions.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_05: Today my guest is Susie McCartney with Welcome Home Hypnotherapy.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_05: New gig for you, Susie.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_05: Yes, very exciting.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_05: Congratulations on that.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_05: But before we get started, got a gift for you.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_03: My very own Doug has questions.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_05: And if you look at the back, see now there's pressure on you because you have to have answers.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_03: I had answers.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_03: That's exciting.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_03: Who doesn't need another mug?
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_03: I'm thrilled.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_05: Everyone needs another mug.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_03: Very exciting.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_05: Well, thank you.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_05: Okay.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_05: So before we get into the hypnotherapy, we're gonna backtrack and cover the whole Susie McCartney story or as much as you're willing to share to lead up to Do you have five hours?
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_05: We have as much time.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_05: We got a whole lot of storage space on these cameras.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_05: So as long as you want to talk, we're here to listen.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_05: All right.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_05: All right.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_05: Cool.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_05: So growing up, where did life start for Susie?
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_03: A long, long time ago in a galaxy far, far away.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_03: No, I was um born and raised in uh Philadelphia, Cherry Hill Hospital.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_03: So the city of Philadelphia, yep.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_03: And uh most of my life was spent in the suburb in the suburbs, sort of a suburban punk.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I was thinking you're from Texas.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_03: I know because Texas will get to there.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_03: I wasn't born there, but I got there as soon as I could.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_03: It took me 20-some years.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_03: But my roots are on the Philadelphia Coast, Philadelphia area, and there are quite a few people in Haynes.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_03: And through the 23 years now that I've been in Hanes, it's very the even uh even recently there's the oh no way, you're from there's this whole cadre of folks from the general uh general area.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_03: But so so my parents, so I'm from Pennsylvania.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_03: I was raised in the suburbs of Philadelphia.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_03: My dad's family, that's the McCartney name, uh, Irish immigrant, Irish German immigrants, and um they were the everyday grandparents that I knew because we lived in the Philadelphia area.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_03: And then my mom was from the opposite side of the Keystone State, uh, little town called Albion PA, which is right in the chimney of Pennsylvania, if you know your state shapes.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's a perfect rectangle with a little chimney and uh very close to Lake Erie, right on the border of Ohio.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_03: Uh and so it was very interesting for uh at Pennsylvanian, but to have family influence from um the Irish immigrant, uh Irish Catholic.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_03: My grandpa was um an iron worker, and my mother's family was from Albion, and that family was sort of was the uh dairy farmers.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_03: Um so my grandpa had had a maple sugary and a dairy and a little golf course and a little sandwich shop.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_03: So my mom is actually sympathetic to my daughter being raised here in Haynes because she was raised in a tiny little town that before there was Facebook and Nixil and all of that stuff.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_03: It was Llewellyn.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_03: I saw Jane holding hands with Gary over the, you know, so they had their whole homeland security sort of thing, uh, neighborhood watch going on there.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_03: So I uh so being on opposite sides of the states, how did your mom and dad meet?
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_03: Penn State.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_03: Penn State.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_03: Nittany Lions.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_03: Really?
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_03: Um and I think that was a hook em horns.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_05: But anyway, showing your showing your Texas bias.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_03: My dad, and I guess and I guess it's very normal to start to be able to start with me starts with my parents.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_03: Like, how did I get here?
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_03: So my dad um went to Penn State on the GI Bill and subsequently became a Vietnam vet.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_03: So he uh he was uh Penn State GI Bill, mom, um, Penn State, and her funny story, and there's all sorts of little nuggets of nuance and life influence, but she wanted to be a math teacher, but at the time was highly discouraged and ended up being an English teacher.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_03: Uh and so then taught in the uh school district of Philadelphia for 37 years as an English teacher, but she will always say that I wanted to be a math teacher, but it was just not encouraged at all.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_03: So they met at Penn State.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, they didn't what they didn't think women had the the minds for math.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_03: No, uh-uh.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_03: Turns out they were really wrong.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_05: They were very wrong about that.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_03: But so just interesting stories.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_03: Uh uh, so that's where they met.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_05: Um and what did your dad do then?
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_03: He uh he actually was um I'd be ashamed to say it.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_03: I actually don't know.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_03: I I'm not sure what his major it was, because that was also not a huge part of our family history story at all overshadowed.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_03: We'll get to some of that later.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_03: I know that he was uh he was a poet at heart.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_03: I will say also on my parents, I was born from a farm girl and a beatnik.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_03: He was a poet at heart, but his life being one of five kids in Philly to an iron worker dad, um, it was that with there was not really a lot of room for that.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_03: So he was the first to go to college, and that was a really big deal.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_03: And I really this is kind of funny, I'm ashamed to say.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_03: I'm not sure what his major was.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_03: Isn't that fair?
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_05: But what did he do for work?
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_03: Well, he was uh uh I would guess it was probably sales engineering.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_03: So when he got back from Vietnam, and there's another deeper story for those who like wormholes, he worked for NCR, National Cash Register.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_03: The other interesting story about my dad, Albert David McCartney, rest in peace.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_03: Um like I said, he enlisted and he ended up serving um in a very high clearance in Hokkaido in North Japan.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_03: So the trauma he that we know of that he experienced from Vietnam wasn't infantry, but that he was a co he was a kind of in code breaking.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_03: So he might have been responsible for wiping out whole communities at a time from a distance.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_03: And so that and we could uh I my my brother and I remember as little kids that dad would talk in his sleep and like this made up and to our ears it was a made-up language, drink it, but think it think it, you know, just it didn't make any sense, but he would talk in his sleep all the time, and he was really into spy novels.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_03: Um there's so much more to him than that, but that's and he could probably never tell me.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_03: Well, exactly.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, he could never tell you.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_03: But to um contact, he was an army uh uh to make contact and figure out what exactly it was that he did.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_03: But I do remember that he had um there were people asking about him all the way down to his kindergarten teacher.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_03: So we knew that, and my brother looked into it a little bit, like he was the guy that had uh Secret Service around him all the time.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_03: And so there are stories that come out of like from NCR National Cash Register Company, that was a feeder for high intelligence people to have a real day job when they came home from the war.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_03: And he, I will say that every um Veterans Day and Memorial Day, I honor my father because although he was not a direct casualty of war, he was among the many that came home absolutely broken.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_03: And it, I'm sure it affected his marriage, our his marriage, active alcoholic.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and that's part of you know where I grew up was so mom was a school teacher, dad was a cash register salesman, but then also he ended up being a branch manager, so he was often up in New York, uh away from home, a lot doing that traveling sales thing.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_03: But then also with the challenge of alcoholism, there was we he went through a lot of cars because there he was on the road, but he was also salving his internal wounds with alcohol.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_03: And so I would say that my upbringing was um comfortable and chaotic.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_03: Like there was absolutely, and I in later in life looked into adult children of alcoholics and like all of that.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_03: Uh so where were we?
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_03: So that's where I was born into.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_03: Second child.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_03: I have an older brother who also recently passed, sadly, but we can hold our emotions for that.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_03: But he was four years older than I.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_03: And uh and we I grew up in the suburbs of Philadelphia, but also in Philadelphia, my grandparents lived in Germantown, and which is a city, uh, which is a section of the city, and Philly is super parochial, and it's a kind of city where I don't know what the numbers are, and one thing that we'll discover about me is I specialize more in um relationships than details.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_03: Like, how big is that city?
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_03: It's bigger than that one, but I don't know what the exact numbers are.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_03: But Philly is a real parochial place where like there's sections of the city.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_03: If you're born and raised in one section of the city, you don't know boo about another section of the city.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_03: So South Philadelphia, all the Italians, you know, German town, for Germans, but also a very strong Irish Catholic um community.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_03: And so I was raised, and then my dad, he was raised in the Catholic Church, and his act of rebellion was my neither my brother nor I were baptized when we were kids because that was his act of rebellion from the trauma that he went through going through Catholic school at the time that he did, where if you got in trouble, the nuns would beat you, and then they'd call your folks, and you probably get something when you got home.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_03: And so he was very adamant about allowing us to be able to choose, choose our own adventures.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_03: And then my mom's family were uh Presbyterian, and so I grew up in the in in the church, but not like we the Catholic church was for Mass, was for Easter and Christmas and all of that.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_03: And then my big church experience was with my best friend Liz Dempsey at the time in uh elementary school.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_03: They were Methodist, and I went to Sunday school with her.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_03: We'd have sleepovers on Saturday and roll to Sunday school, and that I like to me, it was like I love the the Methodist church.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_03: That was my um real go-to, like going to Sunday school and going to the camps and all of that.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_03: Um, where were we?
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_03: So so that so it's really kind of dichotomy of like and the grandparents that was 10 hours away, they were over there.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_03: So we grew up in the suburbs of Philly, and dad's family, the McCartney's, were who we spent most of the time with.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_03: And then it was the special trip to go see Grandma and Grandpa Rindo out in the country.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and they had, like I said, he had a he had a dairy, what uh and actually my mom sending me a little care package, and she came up with one of uh Icy's milk bottles, and his nickname was Icy.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_03: I just knew it was Grandpa Icy.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_03: Come to find out that it was because he was so cool with the ladies.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, really?
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_03: Younger years, he got that nickname Icy.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_03: Wow.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_03: He was also one of the first dairy farmers at the time to embrace and promote pasteurization, which was pretty cool.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_03: Otherwise, it was you know just raw milk.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_03: And there's some old ad somewhere of his mug, you know, uh singing the praises of pasteurizing milk.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_03: Um let's see about that.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_03: Another fun, fun fact on my mom's side of the family, so that's the Rindo family, uh, and they are phobes, Rindo, that would have been Scotch, English, Scotch, and Hungarian.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_03: So part of my bloodline, how did Susie get here, all the ancestors, whatever, is uh I have a great-grandmother, Anna Orsag, who she always said that she was a gypsy.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_03: So that like bona fide gypsy, gypsy blood, um uh Magyar family, whatever.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_03: So that's kind of interesting in my life as my as I'm losing more and more living relatives to then do a a deeper dive and to be like, well, well, who the heck am I?
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_03: You know, and especially now living in Haynes over the past two decades and getting to know the the different large families here.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_03: Um it is a with a little wistfulness of like, well, I I was the intrepid, I'm thousands of miles away from where I started, and so sit in observation of all of these long, large, extended family units, and then in this internet age, then it's like, well, I want to where did my people come from?
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_03: I want to know more.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_03: Where do my people come from?
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_03: So um, phobes, and then my grandmother was uh she taught school in uh one room schoolhouse.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_03: She rode a horse.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_03: That was part of her story, is that she rode a horse to school to teach the children.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_03: And then the other, uh, this is a at the time uh subversive act.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_03: They were married in secret and kept kept it hidden so that grandma could keep teaching.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_03: Because at the time, once you're married, you not you can't be a school teacher.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_03: That that job was reserved for single women and men who were providing for their families.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_03: But once you were married, you're not to be teaching anymore, you go raise them kids.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_03: That's so very very kind of interesting lure.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_03: And then I'm skipping forward, but when my grandma died, this is so cool.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_03: Are we talking about where I'm from, but this is the people I'm from.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_03: So she passed at a ripe old age of 90 something, and um we go to her.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_03: Uh the funeral was in Albion, and we're at the funeral parlor.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_03: Nobody knew any of this, right?
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_03: We're at the funeral parlor, and then all of a sudden, there is a procession of women dressed in white and one gentleman in a suit, and my grandma was a part of the Eastern Star, which is the women's auxiliary to the Masonic Temple.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_03: Really?
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and so they showed up to honor her at her wake.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_03: And like maybe there were some family members that knew this was going to be part of the deal.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_03: But a lot of you are just wondering, what the heck's going on?
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_03: What the heck is going on?
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_03: And it was like these, you know, women all dressed in white dresses, like not robes, but just whatever frock that was white, and they had candles and they did an honorary for their sister, Llewellyn Rindo.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_03: Turns out I also could be, if I wanted to go through the paperwork, a daughter of the American Revolution.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_03: Who knew?
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_03: So there that's mom's family is is um very old, and I'm searching for the right words.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_03: I got so many in here, but um like before like Mayflower Eric, you know, original um I'm I'm searching for the words, but uh so they come down from even Connecticut and then settled in uh western Pennsylvania.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_03: Dad's family, we tried to do when when my daughter was born, we wanted to do a little in ancestry because we don't have a big family.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_03: And I was able to go pretty far back and trace up to Connecticut in the early 1700s, and then my dad's family, well the Irish immigrants, they were all poor.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_03: And they scattered.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_03: You can't get back real far with them because there was just no record.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_03: Nobody's keeping record.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_03: Nobody was keeping record.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_03: And then my dad's the story.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_05: Is there any immigration records that show when they first came in?
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_03: There are, but that I've got like a million and one tabs open.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_03: I could I could look into that.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_03: I'll get right on top of that, Rosa.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_05: I'll I'll expect a report tomorrow, Susie.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_03: Um and then just the other fun fact about family that also informs um, I think who I who I am and part of my family history and my family lore is my grandpa Henry was one of several kids.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_03: Two two of what there were and there were two brothers, my grandpa Henry and my uncle David, and they were so poor they couldn't afford uh to raise them both.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_03: So David was sent to live with relatives out in the country, and my grandpa Henry quit school in um grade four to help earn a living.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, to help to help uh to help the family out.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_03: He ended up being an ironworker and uh like brilliant.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, it's the kind of thing where like he was clearly genius.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_03: Uh he was also a boxer.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_03: Uh or I it might be might be another relative, but we have somewhere in in the in the family, my brother had it, uh picture of young McCartney, and I think it was actually uh um one of his one of his cousins, but he was like this giant six foot four, big iron worker guy, and he'd take us on trips to the Jersey Shore, about a two-hour drive, and I have a picture somewhere of loading into his imagine all the um like the road builders' white trucks, right?
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_03: But era night with a what do you call them um box trucks, not the box trucks, but the tool toolbox toolboxes on the side.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_03: So imagine this fire engine red and like a 1978 model, and he would load the kids, all the grandkids, in the back of the truck.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_03: Like we had a bench built for us to go in the back of the truck to drive to to Philly from Philly to like the Jersey Shore.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_03: Two and a half hours, highway driving, 55 miles an hour.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_03: And we were just in the back, like it's a little windy, but make it new.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that's a that's that's some of the funny like Gen X stories of like so go ahead, reel me in because I'm all over.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_05: So you've got this from your parents, yeah, very distinct, diverse backgrounds.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_05: And your dad really doesn't even fit, he's a little divergent from his his dad's family in a different way.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_05: How how did how is your childhood growing up?
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_05: Were they kind of pushing you to get more?
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_05: You got an English teacher, you got this poet, are they pushing you more into the liberal arts or what how was that influence on you growing up?
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_03: I will fast forward to say that I did not, I I was shamed into going to college, you know, and there's different aspects that I could purvey this, but at the time I didn't want to go necessarily.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_03: Um I will answer that.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_03: I will circle back to that.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_03: The other thing, so I went to Cheltenham High School, graduated in 1989, George H.W.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_03: Bush came to my graduation, right?
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_03: So this was a this the school was in the suburbs of Philadelphia, a very affluent uh neighborhood.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_03: He was, and um and part of the deal was that all the English, a part of English class was that you had to do for a senior English class, you had to write a college application.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_03: So one of the reasons why HW came to our school is because all our numbers looked really great.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_03: We had the highest rate of college acceptance, but even if you couldn't really, but they weren't looking at who actually went, but all the numbers because Cheltenham represents everything that's right in education, right?
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_03: And so I went to, for me, I didn't want to go to college because I wanted to get busy living.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_03: I was like, this is I'm I clearly I can toot my own horn or own a degree of intelligence, and nobody was really diagnosed with anything back in the day.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_03: I my grades were all over the place from A plus, like I was an honors student, dropout, and I think that there's and I still haven't gotten around to it, but I I start to read the literature of like ADD, ADHD, that kind of stuff, and both my brother and I fit the bill.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_03: Then there's another one of the great minds of our time right now, Dr.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_03: Gabor Mate, looks at trauma addiction, and how that feeds into the ADHD diagnosis.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_03: So that tracks with my upbringing that it was very um like going to visit mom's family was shh, grandpa's napping.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_03: We're gonna have we're gonna have luncheons and we do and everything is more country proper.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_03: You know, and and like Christmas and Thanksgiving with the McCartneys and the extended family is blah, you know, like you knew, or or um you didn't know when it was gonna happen.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_03: There was not I would say not physical abuse, I mean spanking, but that's that was that, and I have my other thoughts about that.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_03: But uh, but it was verbal humiliation, mental repartee.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_03: We're talking about a lot of really brilliant people and a lot of alcohol.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_03: And so it would every every um gathering was absolutely wine and beer soaked.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_03: And so it was a matter of people tell me now I talk fast or I interrupt a lot, and the way I was raised is nobody would take a break.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_03: When you're ready to say something, just start talking, start talking.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_03: Or like it's such a micro break, in you'd learn uh when it's when it can be your turn to break in and say something.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_03: And so having worked as a guide, also when I have to do public speaking, and I know I'm I'm talking, starting to talk real fast now, but I have to I have trained myself to speak ridiculously slow in order to have a normal rate of speech because it was all about you know, so to answer your question, what was it like?
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_03: It was weird.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_03: There was also a suicide in my dad's family, so that was a lot of the unspoken trauma of we don't talk about Uncle Buddy because he committed suicide, but my grandpa my grandparents at the time couldn't accept that, so it was just the giant elephant in the room, and then somebody would start to edge into it, and then people would get angry, and it was just like this is normal, oh my gosh.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_03: So I wanted to one of the reasons I wanted to not go to college, I was ready to just get away from that.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_03: I wanted to flee, and so I'm just gonna for a moment I'm a natural for hypnotherapy because what I want to say is the child mind, our I'm just gonna throw this in there right now.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_03: I grew up with a lot of trauma, but also so much privilege.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_03: So that and there's so many of us out there that it was like, I didn't get beat on, I was not sexually abused that I know of, or uh, you know, all these other things, but but when you're and you know, you forgive the parents, the parents, the parents, everybody's just doing the best they can, but you also realize as a kid with a gullible mind, you're taking in all of this input that's teaching you how to be in the way the world is, and these maladaptive coping strategies, and until you recognize it for what it is, it becomes the driver in your life and you're not even aware of it.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_03: Right?
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_03: So that's kind of where I so I did go to college, Westchester University, because that's the one cop that's the essay I wrote for English class.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_03: That's the application I made, and they accepted me, and I'm gonna go.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_03: So Westchester is 45 minutes away from Philadelphia, and I picked it because it was close enough that if I wanted to go back home, I could, but far enough away that mom wouldn't just mom or dad wouldn't just drop in.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_05: Drop in and see.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so it was still an away college, and it was Westchester was originally a state normal school, a state teacher school, and then they ended up with full uh accreditation.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_03: And uh I graduated with a degree in communication studies, but my first choice was psychology, and they say that about people who go into psychology do so to figure out why they're so messed up, like what to figure stuff out.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_03: And I hit a brick wall with a statistics class, math.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_03: Um, my SATs were skewed, like almost all the points in verbal, and not really enough of the points in math.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_03: And I can t I will take full responsibility for it, but it was one of those I was having trouble in the statistics class already, and then they did the dorm sign-up was like a cattle call.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_03: You have to stand in line in person to get the dorm the next year.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_03: My two of my c uh roommates, we were all sick as dogs, and the one girl, she was like on amoxicillin, she couldn't get out of bed, and it was like, somebody's gotta go get in line.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_03: It was like something like that.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_03: I'm making up a part of a story of it, but I'm I feel like I'm willing enough to be honest about when I've screwed up about something, and it was just a catch 22.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_03: I missed this one test, and she wouldn't let me make it up, and I couldn't pass the class with the way my grades were at the time.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_03: And so then I was like, forget it.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_03: I'm not doing this.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_03: And so then I just started taking classes that seemed interesting that friends of mine recommended, and before long I was weighted in communication studies.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_05: So what's what is communication studies?
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_05: Well because usually communications you're going into journalism of some kind.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_03: Well, so it does not necessarily provide a solid marketable, marketable skill.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_03: Communication studies is the degree for people who go into marketing or for diplomats or ambassadors.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_03: Um, a lot of the classes talk about or or at the time, so this was in the 90s, and um of the more interesting classes that I found were intercultural communication.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_03: And one and uh an example that comes up is that you have uh an American businessman and a Saudi businessman, and they've got a an American flies to Saudi Arabia or whatever, he gets off the plane, and they're supposed to have this meeting, and uh the Arab fella walks right up to him and gets right in his face because from his cultural perspective, that is honorable and right, that you have nothing to hide, and you should be talking close enough to somebody that you can smell their breath, smell their body, you that you're getting your it's all informing you.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_03: The American businessman is thinking, Oh my god, you big sweaty guy, and keeps backing away.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_03: And then the Arab is left thinking, what do you have to hide?
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_03: And the American guy is thinking, God, you're so pushy.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_03: But had they been informed of each other's cultural mores, yeah, then there wouldn't have been a problem.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_03: So it's like that's one kind of an example of it.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_03: And but even more so than that, um, classes in philosophy like language, thought, and behavior, do we do we have do you see rain first to come up with a name for it?
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_03: Or and then that informs your behavior, like which comes first, the behavior, the word for it, or the thought for it?
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_03: And it and it's all cyclical, like and that's one of the things we talked about, right?
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_03: Interpersonal or dyadic, how people sit and model each other, like so I can sit and mirror you like this, and we're talking, it represents more of an openness.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_03: If I'm sitting, if I'm sitting like this, it maybe gives a message that I'm not I'm not really interested in in this conversation or opening up to you or these little kinds of things.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_03: And and really some of the courses I when I came through it, I'm like, everybody needs this stuff.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_03: And then, of course, the big one, especially in this day and age, mass communications.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_03: In 1992, say when I was going through this course, understanding the concept of gatekeepers, even then understanding the concept of parent companies, that there could be 25 channels on your boob tube, but actually there's only maybe one person that is controlling what gets on the air.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_03: And so it is so funny in this postmodern fast-forward society of like, what's a conspiracy theory, what's real, what's this, what's that?
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_03: Everything is kind of a mockery of itself.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_03: And I in my educational history can go back and say, some of the I learned about this stuff way back then.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_03: Like, this is not it's really real, you know.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_03: Anyway, so it's the kind of um communication studies, it just informs um dealing with people.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_03: Anyway.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_03: Did you enjoy it?
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_03: I loved it.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_03: I loved it.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_05: And then So were you looking to get a job in this field going forward?
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_03: I wanted to run away from home so bad.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_03: I just wanted to do the thing, honestly, to be quite honest with you.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_03: I wanted to just do the thing, and I had no idea.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_03: I was so excited.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_03: I graduated in 1994, and you know what I did?
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_03: I ran away with a grateful dad.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_03: That's what I just wanted.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_03: I couldn't became a deadhead.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_03: I did.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_03: I was a 90s deadhead for uh so straight out of school, I what my dad ended up calling the magical mystery tour for about three years.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_03: And not so not fully dead tour, but then what I would do, so I fell into cooking because cooking for a living, because everywhere you go, you could always get a job uh in a restaurant, either as a server or as a cook.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_03: And then, and plus the other thing I gotta tell you, I was the little sister.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_03: My brother graduated from Drexel University with a sales engineering degree and was making buku dinero right out of school.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_03: So at the time I kind of felt like I'm the bonus kit.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_03: Like he's he's doing it.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_03: You've got your he's doing all the things.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_03: This is great.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_03: Can we just, you know, I mean just go go have fun and go live.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I can remember, Doug, in college, I was on the five-year program, and I can remember at one point I had these dreams.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_03: I wanted to get, I wanted to be done with school so badly.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_03: I actually had one pro professor and he taught um the class was called social inequality.
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_03: And it was and it was just looking at so I would say I I'm a student of people.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, and uh, even though I don't claim one God or or subscribe to one church, I do, I I I go to a church because I consider myself also kind of a theosophist, theosophist, right?
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_03: Having had the history of not being baptized into one particular church, I felt like I was more open to all the different iterations of religion.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_03: Uh and actually one of the courses I took in school was Magic, Witchcraft, and Religion, which took a look at all the different religions around the world and what's called a religion, and why do we call it uh witchcraft?
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_03: Why do we call it, you know, it's just a very, this very cool class.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_03: Anyway, so where were we?
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_03: 94.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_05: You're following the Grateful Dead.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_03: I did one summer tour of Grateful Dead, and then I would and then I would land somewhere and hang on a second.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_05: You're just out of school.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_05: How do you pay to go just follow the Grateful Dead around?
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_03: I know you're doing some cooking and stuff, but well, no, so I you know, I had it I had embezzled some books.
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_03: I was working through college, so I went on uh college loans, so a couple of grants and a couple of loans.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so mail ordered for tickets.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_03: My friend Sharon took care of that.
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_03: Thanks, Cher, if you're watching this.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and there were side jobs, my jobs through uh my formative years, through high school and college.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_03: My first job was at like a a Jewish deli, Neil Street deli.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_03: I was the cake girl, a couple of lifeguarding jobs.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_03: Uh found out I was a terrible waitress.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_03: Um and then uh retail.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_03: I just all sorts of little side jobs.
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_03: Um so I was consistently working somewhat in school.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_03: And um I know I don't even remember exact this was a long time ago, Doug.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_03: What exactly, what exactly was that?
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_03: But I but I always had some kind of job doing something, cooking or waitressing or working.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_05: But is your as you're following the dead around?
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, is it just like so you know, so when once we were there, the self-funding was like hair wraps, hippie dresses, like I we had a sewing machine with us.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_03: We made we made stuff, crafts.
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_03: Um seriously.
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_03: On the grateful, on the Grateful Dead lot.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_03: Uh Shakedown Street.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_03: There's a popular tune.
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_03: Next time you hear it, nothing shaking on Shakedown Street.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_03: That is the parking lot scene where people would roll.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_03: And so here I had uh one of the people I met, I remember talking about the whole Grateful Dead uh phenomenon, and this was so late stage.
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, they'd been around forever.
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_03: I was just kind of on the tail end of it.
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_03: But this older fella, the way he described it was it was like a giant doorway, right?
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_03: And the Grateful Dead drew people in from all walks of life, uh, including, you know, suburban uh uh trust fund kids and uh blue-collar working kids, a lot of homeless people, a lot of people from all walks of life, and come to check out this weird, wild scene.
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_03: And some people went through that, met that met somebody that was nothing like them, expanded their mind one way or the other, and went on to do something different.
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_03: Some people got stuck in the doorway and never, and just, you know, never really ended up, whether it was, you know, overdosing on drugs or just getting totally lost or or ending up in jail for a stupid reason or whatever or whatever.
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but it's just this really weird mixer of a doorway, and there are people who are deadheads of all socioeconomic backgrounds, and so it's just this big, huge mixer of the.
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_05: So do you have the do you have like this group that you're traveling with by yourself?
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_03: And and as the tour went, you'd show up at one venue, everybody's there, you go into the next show, yes, and it would be like this giant caravan.
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_03: I I hitchhiked for the first time in my life, and actually had right before right before that summer, I had just recently read Siddhartha.
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_03: Have you ever read Siddhartha?
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_03: Highly recommend Herman Hess, and it is the story of Gautama of the Buddha, right?
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_03: And and I very much had that at the time similar feeling experience to be a middle-class white girl from the suburbs, that I would have the experience that I could walk into a jewelry store or a dress shop and have someone, especially in my five foot eleven, ten now, five tall stature, walk in and have and pale skin and all of that, have somebody come right up to me and say, Hi, is there something I can help you with?
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_03: Right?
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_03: And then through the course of being on tour and I grew dreadlocks in my hair and was dirty, whatever, uh not just different looking, then had this experience of going into a store and having the shopkeeper come right up front and track me the whole time.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm like, I'm the same person inside.
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_03: I still have a college degree, I have a credit card at the bottom of my backpack, but you wouldn't know that.
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_03: So it's this really interesting anthropological experiment.
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_03: Uh and so that's what we would do is go from one show to the next.
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_03: I hitchhiked uh a little bit.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_03: I would never do that, I think, in this day and age, but the 90s, there was something about like the last bits of analog.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_03: The very last bits of of analog uh is what I would say the experience was.
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_03: And we would sell stuff on tour uh at the parking lot stations or show up at different festivals.
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_03: I went to a rainbow gathering for the first time, uh, which, if you've never heard of a rainbow gathering, and this is where I I need your help, the the the sole I hear who who knew that this is what we would be talking about, but here we are.
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_03: Rainbow gatherings, the reason they are an act of rebellion, essentially celebrating the right to gather in a non-commercial event.
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_03: Which amendment is that?
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_03: Or there's there it it is, it's an amendment.
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_03: It's it's that you are so the idea is there would be tens of thousands of people showing up in the woods, and the the way it would happen is that the way it could happen is that no money is exchanged.
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_03: So this predates Burning Man, if you've ever heard of Burning Man, but it was even more also a microcosm.
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_03: So on the one hand, it was very much sharing everything, love light, little camps made up of people and communal camps, so that you weren't having everybody cooking at their own deal.
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_03: There would be people who would work together to make like Shamalama Ding Dong kitchen or granola funk kitchen or kid camp kitchen.
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_03: And so the idea is that you would come in, set your own personal camp, but then eat together, you know, eat together with that.
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_03: And then there was also a camp out in the parking lot, which is where the alcohol was.
• 39:41
  SPEAKER_03: And so there are there can be a lot of problems with any kind of any vices of virtue, virtue of vice, a little bit of alcohol, not a big deal.
• 39:51
  SPEAKER_03: A lot of alcohol, no big deal.
• 39:53
  SPEAKER_03: Maybe a little bit of pot, a little bit of this, not a big deal.
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_03: A lot of it, big deal.
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_03: But because I'm just gonna, I'm I'm at a loss for all the perfect words, but because of the nature of alcohol and what we know about it, it is segregated out of the gathering proper.
• 40:13
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, and that's where you might find a lot of vets, a lot of or a little harder of a scene, but also those folks were part of the guardians, you know.
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_03: Uh-huh.
• 40:23
  SPEAKER_03: Uh they had their own others, their own.
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I'm veering off, and I probably want to reel it in here to not just talk about rainbow gatherings, but I'll tell you, I did that for a couple years in my life.
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_03: And it absolutely was a life-changing thing.
• 40:37
  SPEAKER_03: I my dad, like I said, my dad called it the magical mystery tour.
• 40:41
  SPEAKER_03: I wanted what I didn't know at the time that I can appreciate now, is that I was absolutely fleeing from a really nice-looking, traumatic childhood.
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_03: That we were privileged enough that, well, you're fine.
• 41:01
  SPEAKER_03: You're fine, everything's fine.
• 41:03
  SPEAKER_03: What's going on?
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_03: And I have, and I have a really great relationship with my mom.
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_03: I know that if she heard this, she might have a hard time hearing some of this.
• 41:11
  SPEAKER_03: But we've also done so much work in our relationship to be able to say, like, gosh, I couldn't imagine having been a mom at age 24, first of all.
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_03: And so for her to, you know, she didn't, she was parenting in the way that she knew how to parent.
• 41:27
  SPEAKER_05: And now in my life, I can say But a lot of it you're talking about wasn't necessarily mom and dad, but the whole family stuff.
• 41:33
  SPEAKER_03: It was the whole dynamic.
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_05: That whole dynamic of cousins and grandparents and aunts and uncles and all of that was just as much a part of that dynamic growing up as it was your parents.
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_03: Absolutely.
• 41:45
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 41:45
  SPEAKER_03: It was kook of bananas.
• 41:47
  SPEAKER_05: So between the being the dead head and the rainbow gathering, ran away from home.
• 41:52
  SPEAKER_05: That was kind of your cathartic moment getting kind of cleansing for you.
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_03: I think so.
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_03: Just trying to deconstruct in order to reconstruct, to go, to go unbe me, the me that I that I needed to be, because it was also very much like the mom's family was, are you gonna wear that?
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_03: Or is that appropriate?
• 42:14
  SPEAKER_03: Or so much of like what's appropriate, what's appropriate.
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_03: And then um, which was not to say that there wasn't that in my in my dad's family, it's just a different, I don't know how to describe it, but I just I wanted I knew that things were not right, you know.
• 42:32
  SPEAKER_03: Um my folks were divorced when I was 11.
• 42:35
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and you know, like when you know that that it's not the way it's supposed to be, but it is what it is.
• 42:43
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I just I ran away from home.
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_03: That's basically, and then my manifest destiny was Colorado.
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_03: And so ultimately I settled settled just outside of Boulder.
• 42:52
  SPEAKER_03: And did you find that on your magic mystery tour that you went on?
• 42:55
  SPEAKER_03: I heard about Ned already from college in Westchester.
• 42:59
  SPEAKER_03: Like there were people from Westchester from college that were talking about, like, oh, go to Netherland, Netherland, it's so cool.
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_03: We're gonna ski the cherry cherry powder.
• 43:08
  SPEAKER_03: Like, so I grew up skiing on the East Coast, yeah, but it's all because of the weather, it's all ice.
• 43:15
  SPEAKER_03: There's no not very little powder to ski on.
• 43:18
  SPEAKER_03: So that was in the back of your mind.
• 43:20
  SPEAKER_03: So was it when I wanted to go out to the Rockies and ski the powder?
• 43:24
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, yes, and uh and so what part of on your magic mystery tour did Colorado come into the studio?
• 43:31
  SPEAKER_05: Well, it's in the middle.
• 43:31
  SPEAKER_05: It was in the middle.
• 43:32
  SPEAKER_03: So I went from the East Coast all the way out to the west coast and then back to the middle, and then stayed there for a little bit.
• 43:41
  SPEAKER_05: How long is a little bit?
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_03: Uh a couple of years, and then I what I would have to say about that is I loved Colorado, but Colorado didn't really love me back.
• 43:56
  SPEAKER_03: And but the first time I left Colorado, this is actually.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_03: Really cool.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_03: This is a fascinating story, and I I really welcome the opportunity to tell it because it is also uh a greater cultural history.
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_03: So back to my brother, Dave, who is the Drexel grad making bucku dinero in Houston.
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_03: He moved down to Houston to take a job for Union with Union Pump Company that made all the pe that pump the union pumps pumped all the peanut butter that go into Reese's peanut butter cups are in union pump pumps.
• 44:33
  SPEAKER_03: They also got shut down right before the first uh Gulf War uh with a government contract.
• 44:41
  SPEAKER_03: Like you're gonna you're gonna stop operation until you make these big pumps for Operation Desert Desert Storm, right?
• 44:48
  SPEAKER_03: So that's where Dave was working.
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_03: He was making probably over 70, 80 grand at age 28 in the 90s.
• 44:55
  SPEAKER_03: So he was a high roller, but he was also very overweight, eating fat steaks and cream sauces.
• 45:02
  SPEAKER_03: In 1996, he quit his job working for Union Pump Company in or in order to open a veggie sandwich shop because he had so he was still working for Union Pump and he had gotten on this kick.
• 45:19
  SPEAKER_03: Uh Dave was a zealot, first of all.
• 45:21
  SPEAKER_03: He was very excited about when he got excited about stuff, it was full tilt boogie.
• 45:26
  SPEAKER_03: Uh read this book called Uh Fit for Life by Harvey and Marilyn Diamond.
• 45:31
  SPEAKER_03: Are you familiar?
• 45:32
  SPEAKER_03: I've heard about it.
• 45:33
  SPEAKER_03: And uh the concept is natural hygiene, and it's it's learning how to eat differently.
• 45:39
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and that the the purpose of which is to increase your potential, your energy, just to give you more energy, and the side effect is weight loss.
• 45:48
  SPEAKER_03: So Dave went on this program and lost 40 pounds and felt great and went like totally messianic about, you know, so he opened, it was called the Green Gorilla Grill Gourmet Veggie Sandwiches.
• 46:01
  SPEAKER_03: But the deal was back in the 90s, there was, if you wanted to get something healthy, you had to go to Whole Foods.
• 46:11
  SPEAKER_03: Like there was no, there was no kind of healthy fast food or no healthy grab and go out of the regular, even grocery stores weren't really getting, they weren't really ramped up on that.
• 46:23
  SPEAKER_03: Uh so that's what his concept was uh uh delivery, pickup delivery, and a couple of grab and go case places at like Rice Market, which is a high-end uh supermarket.
• 46:36
  SPEAKER_03: So that's what he developed is a menu of six sandwiches, uh gourmet, veggie, chili, all vegetarian chili.
• 46:44
  SPEAKER_03: And he called me up and was like, Susie, I have this awesome idea and I'm so disorganized.
• 46:52
  SPEAKER_03: I am afraid to get a partner because I think they'll steal it from me.
• 46:57
  SPEAKER_03: He's like, So would you come down from Colorado from my personal Mecca?
• 47:02
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, uh, as a long-haired dreadlock hippie freak.
• 47:06
  SPEAKER_03: My brother calls me from Houston, Texas.
• 47:08
  SPEAKER_03: I was like, Will you please come down and help me make this a vision?
• 47:13
  SPEAKER_03: And honestly, I felt like I was being drafted because I was like, What kind of jerk face says no?
• 47:19
  SPEAKER_03: But on the other hand, of like I had there was no part of the fiber of all fibers of my being that wanted to find myself in Houston, Texas at the time.
• 47:30
  SPEAKER_03: You know, just like why would I ever but I couldn't say no to my one and only brother.
• 47:34
  SPEAKER_03: So I went down there to help him open the Green Gorilla Grill, and we did it.
• 47:38
  SPEAKER_03: And he would draw me all these.
• 47:40
  SPEAKER_03: This was before any GPSs or anything.
• 47:43
  SPEAKER_03: So I would like, I was going on deliveries in the first couple of days that I was there on blank pieces of paper with a hand-drawn map of like the loop of like, all right, here you go, you're gonna go.
• 47:56
  SPEAKER_03: And he would be like, okay, take this street and go north, and take that street and go west or whatever.
• 48:02
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm like, left or right, you know, like I'm so and if you've ever been to Houston, Texas, it's like this big giant city, and there's the whole loop and it's madness.
• 48:12
  SPEAKER_03: And so there I was driving my little Subaru hatchback with my gourmet veggie sandwiches, having no idea where I was going and looking at the papers.
• 48:20
  SPEAKER_03: But anyway, um, so we did that, and then he was engaged, uh, married, and pregnant, and decided that he couldn't, in good conscience, bring his firstborn into the world with a business that was running in the red.
• 48:37
  SPEAKER_03: So we decided to close.
• 48:40
  SPEAKER_03: And I wasn't ready.
• 48:41
  SPEAKER_03: I was not really I was not in a position, and I going back, I don't know, I couldn't tell you exactly why, but I was just not ready.
• 48:48
  SPEAKER_03: So then I ended up getting a job in customer service just to make enough money to escape Texas and move back up to Colorado, and uh, and that was uh leveraging the communication skills.
• 49:02
  SPEAKER_05: What were you doing in Colorado?
• 49:03
  SPEAKER_05: What were you doing the first time?
• 49:05
  SPEAKER_03: Living the dream, man.
• 49:06
  SPEAKER_03: Cherry cherry pal pal.
• 49:08
  SPEAKER_03: No, I was skiing.
• 49:08
  SPEAKER_03: You just skiing and I got myself a job.
• 49:11
  SPEAKER_03: So actually, that's a great question.
• 49:13
  SPEAKER_03: I was a hor I'm a horse girl, I'm a horse girl, and part of the story I didn't tell you.
• 49:18
  SPEAKER_03: So my mom was because there's so much to the story, it's a volume.
• 49:23
  SPEAKER_03: She was raised in western Pennsylvania.
• 49:25
  SPEAKER_03: They had horses.
• 49:27
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 49:28
  SPEAKER_03: And one day she ran and chased a puppy underneath one of the horses and got kicked in the head.
• 49:36
  SPEAKER_03: And grandma said, and she ended up being okay, but still has a scar on her temple from it.
• 49:42
  SPEAKER_03: And grandma freaked out and was like, That's it, Icy.
• 49:45
  SPEAKER_03: We're done.
• 49:46
  SPEAKER_03: We're done with animals.
• 49:48
  SPEAKER_03: She didn't want to, she didn't want to have the horses gone anymore.
• 49:50
  SPEAKER_03: And so I blame my mom for why I didn't get to be the equestrian that I could have been, because they sold the horses, could have been an Olympic dream.
• 49:59
  SPEAKER_03: Could have been.
• 49:59
  SPEAKER_03: But so I did, I I had uh, and that was one of my side jobs in high school was working at a stable.
• 50:05
  SPEAKER_03: Philadelphia is a very green city.
• 50:08
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, and so despite all the map, all the roads that you see, um, yeah, there's uh uh I learned how to ride, I actually went to horseback riding lessons.
• 50:20
  SPEAKER_03: The dream was alive for me.
• 50:21
  SPEAKER_03: So I grew up, I and like I said, that's the thing of like very privileged on the one hand, but like by this, by the skin of our teeth, you know, like just mom made it happen for all.
• 50:32
  SPEAKER_03: But where we were, so I so oh Jerry.
• 50:37
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm on I'm on dead tour.
• 50:39
  SPEAKER_03: I find myself in Boulder, Colorado.
• 50:41
  SPEAKER_03: I decided this is where I want to be.
• 50:43
  SPEAKER_03: There is a ranch resort uh hiring as a Wrangler.
• 50:48
  SPEAKER_03: I was like, I'm gonna be a Wrangler.
• 50:50
  SPEAKER_03: This is it, I'm gonna do it.
• 50:52
  SPEAKER_03: And so I go to interview and I spend two hours mucking out all the stalls, getting ready to take the trail ride, and I'm talking to the head wrangler about what my life experience is.
• 51:05
  SPEAKER_03: And I was like, Yeah, I've cooked it, I've I've done some cooking and I worked at this restaurant and this and that.
• 51:10
  SPEAKER_03: And she was like, say no more.
• 51:12
  SPEAKER_03: Bob really needs somebody in the kitchen.
• 51:15
  SPEAKER_03: Just go.
• 51:15
  SPEAKER_03: And I was just like, I didn't have the wherewithal, and maybe that's trauma, people pleasing.
• 51:22
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I didn't stand up for myself and say no, it's not what I want to do.
• 51:27
  SPEAKER_03: But I also knew I had to work, I had to get a job, and so I just took it and I went into the kitchen.
• 51:33
  SPEAKER_03: Now, this was a four-star restaurant.
• 51:36
  SPEAKER_03: So the other thing that I was doing with cooking is recognizing that um in the back of my mind, taking each job as an internship.
• 51:45
  SPEAKER_03: Like I'm gonna choose where I want to work so that I can add it to my resume that I've done this.
• 51:51
  SPEAKER_03: So this was a very cool opportunity to work in a four-star remote restaurant with stuff like antelope and rabbit fricasse on the menu, you know, all sorts of neat stuff.
• 52:02
  SPEAKER_03: I learned a lot of Thai cooking and because the chef there had trained with a, you know, Thai chef, whatever.
• 52:09
  SPEAKER_03: And so that was a really cool opportunity to add to my toolkit.
• 52:14
  SPEAKER_03: So it's called Alice's Restaurant up at Gold Lake Ranch Resort.
• 52:19
  SPEAKER_03: So uh anyway, so where were we?
• 52:22
  SPEAKER_03: So that that that's what I ended up doing in Colorado is that I was making pretty good money, and then a lot of it is just at the time we call it lifestyling.
• 52:31
  SPEAKER_03: You work long enough to make enough money to go on an adventure, and when you run out of money, you land again somewhere, get a job, work long enough, and the future is over there, and when you're in your 20s, and it just seemed like what not not anything.
• 52:50
  SPEAKER_03: Again, I had my older brother who was like, This is gonna sound really dorky, but I'm gonna go for it again.
• 52:56
  SPEAKER_03: It was like Arthur and Morgain, right?
• 53:00
  SPEAKER_03: King Arthur, like Dave, all he always he was always grasping for that brass ring.
• 53:07
  SPEAKER_03: He always wanted more.
• 53:08
  SPEAKER_03: He wanted to, you know, he's a not only young Republican, but also like he just wanted to be in the inner circle so much.
• 53:16
  SPEAKER_03: And he was great.
• 53:17
  SPEAKER_03: He was this big gorilla, awesome guy, highly charismatic, a natural salesman.
• 53:23
  SPEAKER_03: And he just that's the life he wanted.
• 53:25
  SPEAKER_03: And remember, we grew up in a really affluent neighborhood, but we did not live in one of the nicer houses in the affluent neighborhood.
• 53:34
  SPEAKER_03: And so most of our friends had a lot more money than we did.
• 53:38
  SPEAKER_03: So what I think what Dave internalized was just a little bit more, just work a little harder, and just he wanted to have that house that his buddy had.
• 53:46
  SPEAKER_03: And that's that that was his that was his driver.
• 53:50
  SPEAKER_03: I, on the other hand, and I'll tell a tale, I so I did.
• 53:54
  SPEAKER_03: I can look back and say, no, was it a great thing?
• 53:57
  SPEAKER_03: I I, you know, I was into I started smoking pot when I was not in high school, and actually it was my brother who turned me onto it first.
• 54:07
  SPEAKER_03: And I remember my mom when I was.
• 54:12
  SPEAKER_03: Anyway, but so this is a valuable story, just in informing a lot.
• 54:18
  SPEAKER_03: And I, you know, I don't, I'm not down with it for kids at any age, right?
• 54:22
  SPEAKER_03: Or uh young kids, but at the time we were all just like fumbling through, and I remember my mom being really upset with me of about the caliber of friends that I was hanging out with at this point now as a junior and senior in high school.
• 54:39
  SPEAKER_03: And I was so angry, but because I also knew at the time the rich kids the rich kids were doing coke.
• 54:47
  SPEAKER_03: And I was like, Mom, you want me to you want me to hang out with those people because they're doing they're doing hard drugs.
• 54:53
  SPEAKER_03: I'm hanging out and smoking a little pot from time to time.
• 54:56
  SPEAKER_03: And and again, it was right or wrong, but that's uh but I want to go back to uh so there was a reason why so my brother, the green gorilla grill, why did I move this?
• 55:10
  SPEAKER_03: So I I just wanted to get out and live.
• 55:13
  SPEAKER_03: Like it all I I at the time I could already see so much hypocrisy.
• 55:19
  SPEAKER_03: Like Dave, I know where I was going with this.
• 55:21
  SPEAKER_03: Dave wanted the bright lights in the big city to find his purpose, and I just wanted to go into the woods, right?
• 55:30
  SPEAKER_03: I just wanted to try something different or just understand that the idea of me having a house and a family, you know, I just I had no desire to fit in, or I wanted to just fit in just enough, or what's that old uh how's it um Stevie wondered, live in just enough, just enough for the city.
• 55:51
  SPEAKER_03: Like, yes, there's certain bars that you have to meet.
• 55:54
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, that I'll pay my taxes or figure that out or whatever, sure.
• 55:58
  SPEAKER_03: But I don't really want to have anything to do with that if I don't have to.
• 56:02
  SPEAKER_03: I was still very, very much in a soul searching.
• 56:05
  SPEAKER_03: And in fact, this is le so I was I had at that point since leaving home not lived in any one place for longer than about nine months at a time.
• 56:17
  SPEAKER_05: And so what at when you get when you're leaving Houston to go back to Colorado, yeah, what age are you at that point?
• 56:23
  SPEAKER_05: Great question.
• 56:24
  SPEAKER_05: Twenty-seven.
• 56:25
  SPEAKER_05: Twenty-seven.
• 56:26
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 56:26
  SPEAKER_05: So between your college years and everything.
• 56:28
  SPEAKER_03: So that was the magical mystery tour.
• 56:30
  SPEAKER_05: Kind of twenty twenty-three, twenty-four when you're out of college.
• 56:32
  SPEAKER_05: So you've had three so you've had three years now that you've been on your magical mystery tour.
• 56:38
  SPEAKER_05: You're going back to Colorado.
• 56:40
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 56:40
  SPEAKER_05: Are you going back to the same place or are you just going back to the house?
• 56:43
  SPEAKER_03: I did go back.
• 56:43
  SPEAKER_03: No, I did go back to the same town.
• 56:46
  SPEAKER_03: And this is where this is where the um I could say that uh so I went back to Colorado and different restaurant jobs.
• 56:55
  SPEAKER_03: So at that point, this that had become kind of an identify an identity.
• 56:59
  SPEAKER_03: And again, a nod to hypnotherapy.
• 57:01
  SPEAKER_03: I couldn't see past my own ghetto wall.
• 57:03
  SPEAKER_03: Like I had, I knew I was highly intelligent and capable.
• 57:06
  SPEAKER_03: And I remember asking my brother for financial advice.
• 57:10
  SPEAKER_03: I said, I need I need some, I need to, I need you to help me look at my financial picture.
• 57:15
  SPEAKER_03: And he was like, Susie, you just need more finances in your picture.
• 57:20
  SPEAKER_03: That's what you need.
• 57:21
  SPEAKER_03: You know, but and my mom was like, Can't can you get a job with an environmental corporation that has like that like checks your boxes, but is maybe gonna look out for your future.
• 57:32
  SPEAKER_03: And at the time, I was like, nah, no, no, no.
• 57:36
  SPEAKER_03: Whatever.
• 57:37
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but it it's all life is a work in process.
• 57:41
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm getting there.
• 57:42
  SPEAKER_03: So I that the second run in Colorado was a little more, a little more dicey.
• 57:48
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so at that point, you should know too.
• 57:50
  SPEAKER_03: So so Jerry Garcia dies, right?
• 57:53
  SPEAKER_03: The dead tour, as we know it, is over.
• 57:55
  SPEAKER_03: But and go going back to the analogy of the doorway, there were a lot of people who were on tour that then opened up their veggie burrito store or opened up their concept.
• 58:06
  SPEAKER_03: So I got a job uh at one of the first, uh it was called the New Potato Cafe, and it was an all-vegetarian restaurant, which was an incredible concept.
• 58:17
  SPEAKER_03: So I was working there and I was partying way too much.
• 58:21
  SPEAKER_03: Now, you should know during this time my dad was diagnosed with lung cancer, and he was going through chemotherapy, and it was and I also will nod um there was a point in my adult relationship that I had sort of a come to Jesus moment with my dad and forgave him for the father that I knew he could never be, like the daddy of of my dreams because he was an alcoholic and because he was, you know, never quite together.
• 59:01
  SPEAKER_05: I no, I did you tell him you forgave me?
• 59:03
  SPEAKER_03: I yeah, I I I love you and I just I love you and I I accepted some of it was me to me of understanding that I can forgive and release the dream that would never be, he will never be this ward cleaver kind of like guy.
• 59:25
  SPEAKER_03: But I could accept and love that here is a human being on earth that loves me more than life itself, will always be good for a pretty good conversation, and maybe a couple he would call them action Jacksons in the mail.
• 59:40
  SPEAKER_03: He'd say he'd send cash, like here's a couple of action Jacksons, go go do what you want.
• 59:45
  SPEAKER_03: But um, so he was he died, he ended up dying, and I was in the throes.
• 59:51
  SPEAKER_03: I was again, I was partying way too much.
• 59:54
  SPEAKER_05: So do you think that partying was because of him going through all of this?
• 59:59
  SPEAKER_03: I was still just a mess.
• 1:00:00
  SPEAKER_03: I was it was still it was a spillover of why again we maybe get into that.
• 1:00:06
  SPEAKER_03: It is an alcohol like any addiction is trying to fill a hole.
• 1:00:11
  SPEAKER_03: But if you're not, you have to put that hole on the table of consciousness.
• 1:00:15
  SPEAKER_03: You have to know what it is before you can really start to deal with it.
• 1:00:20
  SPEAKER_03: But most people just make such a habit of covering stuff up that you don't even know what you're covering up now.
• 1:00:27
  SPEAKER_03: You just know that I have this feeling again.
• 1:00:30
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, better crack one open or burn one down or do what, do whatever it was.
• 1:00:34
  SPEAKER_05: So when you're saying partying is mainly weed and alcohol, weed and alcohol, a little bit of psychedelics, which is so funny.
• 1:00:40
  SPEAKER_03: I will just I have to do a PSA right now.
• 1:00:43
  SPEAKER_03: Right now in history, there is all sorts of understanding about how about how helpful, like microdosing and the application of um psychotropic mushrooms and all of that stuff.
• 1:00:57
  SPEAKER_03: This was the Wild West in the 90s, so I'll just say what happened to the 90s stays in the 90s, but there was also some degree of understanding that it wasn't like doing this and going out to bars, but it was going out into the woods.
• 1:01:11
  SPEAKER_03: And or just I was still, even in my late 20s, still just had aware, but couldn't really put my finger on exactly what it was, just this big empty inside from a lot of the confusion and frustration of how I was raised and what was going on.
• 1:01:28
  SPEAKER_03: Because the subconscious takes everything in.
• 1:01:32
  SPEAKER_03: 95% of our life is ruled by the subconscious, and the subconscious is recording everything, but our conscious mind doesn't really know what's all in there.
• 1:01:44
  SPEAKER_03: What I'm getting to, this one morning, I are I had this incredibly powerful dream, and this one morning I woke up with just this the only thing I could describe it is as a knowing.
• 1:02:01
  SPEAKER_03: I'd had a vision of a being walking into the light.
• 1:02:08
  SPEAKER_03: At the time, also I was in the throes of a really weird relationship.
• 1:02:11
  SPEAKER_03: I wanted I wanted this guy to like me, or I was trying to date that we were we were off and on, and in my mind I was like, do I need to replace the man in my life?
• 1:02:20
  SPEAKER_03: It was all sorts of weird stuff, but I knew my dad was sick.
• 1:02:23
  SPEAKER_03: I'll I'll uh give you something that you might be able to share with somebody else.
• 1:02:27
  SPEAKER_03: But uh I I I'm kind of in a word salad because it it is a painful memory that I woke up that morning just um in in the ab they call it an abreatic reaction.
• 1:02:41
  SPEAKER_03: My dad was dead.
• 1:02:42
  SPEAKER_03: Like I just I felt I was like he's he's dead.
• 1:02:46
  SPEAKER_03: Um it was a very confusing time.
• 1:02:50
  SPEAKER_03: I called my mom, she was like, What are you talking about?
• 1:02:55
  SPEAKER_03: Your Aunt Kathleen just talked to him last night.
• 1:02:57
  SPEAKER_03: Like it was like, but I had had I but I just felt it so real.
• 1:03:02
  SPEAKER_03: Everybody was so worried about me that I had like gone too far with some experimentation and I'd lost touch with reality, but I was just I couldn't get over the feeling that these just it's just so final.
• 1:03:16
  SPEAKER_03: I cried the real tears and it was just so awful, right?
• 1:03:21
  SPEAKER_03: So um it was a really dark, it was a really dark time.
• 1:03:25
  SPEAKER_03: And then so my mom was even like to my a friend of mine do, does she need to be taken to a hospital?
• 1:03:30
  SPEAKER_03: Like she's really talking some weird, really weird stuff.
• 1:03:34
  SPEAKER_03: Well, here's the story.
• 1:03:36
  SPEAKER_03: My brother calls me and he was like, Do you I uh and I was just so done with a lot of stuff was not, I was very disillusioned with my life in Colorado.
• 1:03:47
  SPEAKER_03: Things were I was making poor in retrospect, I was making poor choices, stuff was not working out, and my brother offered to come and drive, come and get me so I could come live with him, go live with him down in Austin with his family.
• 1:04:02
  SPEAKER_03: Uh he's like, Do you want to come live with me and just get a fresh start?
• 1:04:06
  SPEAKER_03: And I was like, you know what?
• 1:04:07
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, I'm done.
• 1:04:08
  SPEAKER_03: Like I'm ready to come back into the fold.
• 1:04:10
  SPEAKER_03: Like I'd gone out and tried to figure some stuff out.
• 1:04:13
  SPEAKER_03: This is obviously not working.
• 1:04:15
  SPEAKER_03: I'm ready to come home and to you is home enough.
• 1:04:19
  SPEAKER_03: Well, so we'll say this was on a Monday.
• 1:04:22
  SPEAKER_03: On Wednesday, he calls and is like, listen, I'm really sorry.
• 1:04:26
  SPEAKER_03: I have this business meeting that I can't get out of.
• 1:04:30
  SPEAKER_03: We're gonna have to push it forward, and um, I need to come get you on Friday.
• 1:04:35
  SPEAKER_03: And by that point, I was like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, wait a minute.
• 1:04:39
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, I understand that you're here to save your baby sister.
• 1:04:42
  SPEAKER_03: However, I have a job to give notice to, I have a life to shut down.
• 1:04:47
  SPEAKER_03: What's going on?
• 1:04:48
  SPEAKER_03: Like I can't, I can't actually pull this off.
• 1:04:50
  SPEAKER_03: And then he takes a deep breath and he's like, Okay.
• 1:04:55
  SPEAKER_03: And I forgive you for this, mom.
• 1:04:57
  SPEAKER_03: Uh he said, Mom didn't want me to tell you, but dad died last night.
• 1:05:03
  SPEAKER_03: And it was like, are you are you kidding me?
• 1:05:07
  SPEAKER_03: Like I had a full-blown premonition.
• 1:05:12
  SPEAKER_03: And the first response was, don't tell Susie it might break her mind.
• 1:05:17
  SPEAKER_03: But it was like, no, that would have been so validating for me.
• 1:05:21
  SPEAKER_03: So that like that was really, that was really crazy.
• 1:05:24
  SPEAKER_03: So then, and that's why he was like, We need to come and get you.
• 1:05:27
  SPEAKER_03: We need to come get you down.
• 1:05:28
  SPEAKER_03: So we can get you down to Texas, and then we can go fly to the funeral.
• 1:05:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:05:32
  SPEAKER_03: And that that was the timeline.
• 1:05:33
  SPEAKER_03: But they're like crazy.
• 1:05:35
  SPEAKER_03: So that's how I ended up in Austin because I, you know, this whole like I was starting to.
• 1:05:40
  SPEAKER_05: So you actually had him come up and he did.
• 1:05:43
  SPEAKER_03: He was like, I will no, and he offered.
• 1:05:45
  SPEAKER_03: I didn't ask.
• 1:05:46
  SPEAKER_03: And this was why there were points in my life, like I told my brother, I saved his life once when, you know, like he was struggling.
• 1:05:53
  SPEAKER_03: He really wanted this business idea.
• 1:05:55
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, I will come for my little nirvana and come and help you out.
• 1:05:59
  SPEAKER_03: And And then it was sort of a very like unspoken like and he would call me Suby because when when I first came down there I drove this little Subaru and so I became Aunt Subi, Subi LaRue.
• 1:06:11
  SPEAKER_03: Listen, Suby.
• 1:06:12
  SPEAKER_03: Do you want me to come and get you?
• 1:06:14
  SPEAKER_03: I will drop everything and come and get you and and bring you home.
• 1:06:18
  SPEAKER_03: And so he did that.
• 1:06:19
  SPEAKER_03: So he drove up, collected me and the dog and everything, and drove us down, and and I moved.
• 1:06:25
  SPEAKER_03: Uh that's what got me to Austin, Texas.
• 1:06:28
  SPEAKER_03: That everybody in Haynes for the past 20 years, if they're like, oh Susie, yeah, she's from Austin, that's how I got to Austin.
• 1:06:35
  SPEAKER_05: So you're what, 27, 28?
• 1:06:37
  SPEAKER_03: So now, yeah, and if you anybody's into astrology, that was my Saturn return.
• 1:06:42
  SPEAKER_03: Which in astrology, your Saturn return is a point at which your life folds over onto itself and gives you all sorts of lessons to lather, rinse, repeat.
• 1:06:52
  SPEAKER_03: Anyway.
• 1:06:53
  SPEAKER_03: Wait, wait, wait.
• 1:06:55
  SPEAKER_03: I only know this much about astrology.
• 1:06:57
  SPEAKER_03: I just know all the right words.
• 1:06:59
  SPEAKER_03: What the hell is this?
• 1:07:00
  SPEAKER_03: No, that means I confronted, I it was a confronting of all of my past.
• 1:07:04
  SPEAKER_03: Like during that time, I thought I was trying so hard to outrun all of this, all of this trauma that I, all of this stuff that I was just trying to push away, and it just came right up into my face.
• 1:07:20
  SPEAKER_03: And now your dad's dead and your brother's coming up to take you back home to start over.
• 1:07:27
  SPEAKER_03: But so at the time, so I first went to while I went from Houston, when I went from Houston back up to Colorado, Dave moved to Austin.
• 1:07:38
  SPEAKER_03: So he he so he moved, so then so it was going down to visit him.
• 1:07:42
  SPEAKER_03: So then from Austin, what do I do for a living?
• 1:07:48
  SPEAKER_03: I no no no get it.
• 1:07:50
  SPEAKER_05: What's a Saturn return thing?
• 1:07:52
  SPEAKER_05: Is that just is that just describe what you went through or just Saturn actually code?
• 1:07:56
  SPEAKER_03: No, so so the idea is so sad, and I know I know very little about astro I love astrology, but I can't wrap my mind around the whole s whole of it.
• 1:08:05
  SPEAKER_03: The one of the reasons why I take astrology in with everything, and then it's not just in left field, is uh from a biochemical standpoint, we are made, Carl Sagan says it, we are made of star stuff.
• 1:08:22
  SPEAKER_03: We are made of the same elements that are floating around in the universe.
• 1:08:27
  SPEAKER_03: Why does it not why does it not make sense that our physical bodies don't have some electromagnetic connection to the positioning and the gravitational pull and the movement of the planets that are a part of our solar system.
• 1:08:50
  SPEAKER_03: Like we're we're a part of the system, we're not separate from it.
• 1:08:55
  SPEAKER_03: Even to me, even in the circumspect concept of God, it's all God.
• 1:09:02
  SPEAKER_03: We're all it's all a part of us, right?
• 1:09:04
  SPEAKER_03: So if you if you believe in God and this is his universe, then Jupiter and Saturn and all the planets belong to God.
• 1:09:14
  SPEAKER_03: So we're all a part of the same thing.
• 1:09:17
  SPEAKER_03: So the concept is in a in and and this is so junior bird man, but um when we are born on Earth, there is a relationship to where the all the planets are at the time of your birth, right?
• 1:09:37
  SPEAKER_03: And so as you go through your life and what astrologers talk about in the positioning of the planets, like affects your waters, right?
• 1:09:46
  SPEAKER_03: It be and it's because we're all made of the same thing.
• 1:09:49
  SPEAKER_03: And so Saturn doesn't really return, it just appears to oh no, I'm gonna get it wrong.
• 1:09:56
  SPEAKER_03: See, this is where I sound like an idiot because I I know enough, but not enough.
• 1:09:59
  SPEAKER_03: It's the when something's in retrograde, it's not actually moving backwards, it's just moving so slowly it looks like it's going backwards compared to the other planets moving.
• 1:10:10
  SPEAKER_03: And the Saturn return, it's my understanding, is it cycles, it cycles through your chart or whatever, and then it happens again, and it's every X amount of years.
• 1:10:21
  SPEAKER_03: So your Saturn return is it's coming back through again after every however many years it is, right?
• 1:10:28
  SPEAKER_05: So when did when did you find out this is your Saturn return?
• 1:10:30
  SPEAKER_03: Typically, it happens when people at a around age 27, that's universal.
• 1:10:35
  SPEAKER_03: Around age 27, that's your first Saturn return, right?
• 1:10:39
  SPEAKER_05: It's like every 27 years.
• 1:10:41
  SPEAKER_03: Or something like that.
• 1:10:42
  SPEAKER_03: And some astrologist is like poking their eye out, listening to me, like, oh my god, you're getting it all wrong.
• 1:10:47
  SPEAKER_03: But enough to say it's it's kind of a big deal, and it's your life folds back over.
• 1:10:52
  SPEAKER_03: That's what people call sometimes the midlife crisis, right?
• 1:10:54
  SPEAKER_03: In your 50s.
• 1:10:55
  SPEAKER_03: It's because everything's happy.
• 1:10:57
  SPEAKER_03: You you you look back over your life.
• 1:11:00
  SPEAKER_03: Oh my gosh, what have I done?
• 1:11:01
  SPEAKER_03: Where am I going?
• 1:11:02
  SPEAKER_03: Is this my beautiful house?
• 1:11:03
  SPEAKER_03: Is this my beautiful life?
• 1:11:04
  SPEAKER_03: And the days go by.
• 1:11:06
  SPEAKER_03: Anyway, so the Saturn return is a point in your life to reassess like what are you gonna have to go through again, or what lessons have you learned and now you can move on from, right?
• 1:11:18
  SPEAKER_03: But that's enough about astrology.
• 1:11:20
  SPEAKER_05: Okay, I'd never heard that before.
• 1:11:21
  SPEAKER_05: And so that was something really so look into it.
• 1:11:23
  SPEAKER_03: It's all good before.
• 1:11:25
  SPEAKER_03: So that's how I got to Austin.
• 1:11:26
  SPEAKER_03: So you're back in Austin now, and I can uh so we know my life skills are seamstressing, right?
• 1:11:35
  SPEAKER_03: From sewing clothes for the day, grateful deadlock, uh cooking food for a living.
• 1:11:40
  SPEAKER_03: So I ended up getting a job through at this catering company high-end.
• 1:11:44
  SPEAKER_03: This was also around the time the arc of the Dell web, the Dell boom.
• 1:11:53
  SPEAKER_03: So it there were high-end, I mean, catered lunches were everywhere.
• 1:11:57
  SPEAKER_03: So I had some really great work paid that paid really well for with catering companies doing corporate lunches and house parties and all the McMansions and all of that stuff.
• 1:12:10
  SPEAKER_03: But I didn't have any friends, like I didn't know a lot.
• 1:12:14
  SPEAKER_03: There were a handful of people that I had met in Houston that had now moved to Austin.
• 1:12:21
  SPEAKER_03: Well, they will say politically, like Austin's the speck of blue and the sea of red.
• 1:12:25
  SPEAKER_03: So they may be a little more progressive, but Houston actually has a really great um cultural scene, drumming, uh, Afro-Cuban stuff, whatever, but I digress.
• 1:12:35
  SPEAKER_03: So I end up getting this job.
• 1:12:37
  SPEAKER_03: This is how I'm getting to Alaska.
• 1:12:39
  SPEAKER_03: So I end up taking a an incredibly low-paying job at this store called Whole Earth Provision Company, which is like an REI meets a discovery zone.
• 1:12:53
  SPEAKER_03: Like um, it's like a local REI.
• 1:12:57
  SPEAKER_03: It's local to Texas, only five or so stores in Dallas, Houston, San Antonio, Austin, that kind of thing.
• 1:13:06
  SPEAKER_03: But it's a real outdoorsy community.
• 1:13:09
  SPEAKER_05: And so I did what was the draw for that?
• 1:13:11
  SPEAKER_05: Because you're doing this high-paid catering stuff for you.
• 1:13:14
  SPEAKER_03: Because I was like at my heart, like a hippie.
• 1:13:17
  SPEAKER_03: And I was like, who am I gonna go walk my dog with?
• 1:13:19
  SPEAKER_03: Where are the green trails?
• 1:13:21
  SPEAKER_03: Where am I gonna go play disc golf?
• 1:13:23
  SPEAKER_03: Where am I gonna go try climbing?
• 1:13:25
  SPEAKER_03: And so it's building community.
• 1:13:27
  SPEAKER_03: So I was so previously when I had worked at bigger restaurants, this might be news to you, but it's old hat.
• 1:13:35
  SPEAKER_03: Like, you end up partying with the people that you work with and your big staff of like, where's the party?
• 1:13:40
  SPEAKER_03: Hey, we're all meeting to go uh play putt-putt golf tomorrow.
• 1:13:43
  SPEAKER_03: Hey, we're all that's how you that was your crew at the time when I was working in restaurants in my 20s.
• 1:13:49
  SPEAKER_03: You end up h hanging together.
• 1:13:51
  SPEAKER_03: Like, hey, so-and-so's having a party, or hey, we're gonna do something wholesome, you know, tomorrow.
• 1:13:57
  SPEAKER_03: But when I moved down to Austin at the time, I worked for a catering company.
• 1:14:04
  SPEAKER_03: I didn't know at which which had a staff of three.
• 1:14:07
  SPEAKER_03: And like you didn't really want to hang out.
• 1:14:09
  SPEAKER_03: I didn't know how, and and also didn't know how to meet, it was like, how do I meet people?
• 1:14:13
  SPEAKER_03: Believe it or not, I'm kind of an introvert, left to my own devices.
• 1:14:19
  SPEAKER_03: Like, once I'm with people that I'm comfortable with, sure, I'll open up like a soda bottle, whatever.
• 1:14:26
  SPEAKER_03: But not knowing anybody is a lot harder to figure out, well, who, and especially in a big city like Austin, too.
• 1:14:34
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I don't want to meet the people that somebody is like, oh yeah, no, stay away from that person.
• 1:14:39
  SPEAKER_03: You don't, or because they're not safe or you're dangerous or whatever.
• 1:14:42
  SPEAKER_03: We didn't have those words back then.
• 1:14:44
  SPEAKER_03: There were no safe spaces, or even even then.
• 1:14:47
  SPEAKER_05: But um so it's more of the social aspect.
• 1:14:49
  SPEAKER_05: It's really for social.
• 1:14:51
  SPEAKER_03: You're looking for connection and gear.
• 1:14:53
  SPEAKER_03: The pro it was all about making friends and getting discounts on Patagonia and you know, Leatherman and all of that.
• 1:15:01
  SPEAKER_03: So that was just a side job to meet people and for community.
• 1:15:07
  SPEAKER_03: And then over the course of time, I started answering the phone and so-and-so is looking for their pro deal, they're getting back from Alaska, they're on, they're packing up to go to Alaska.
• 1:15:18
  SPEAKER_03: Like Keith up in Haynes is calling asking about that tent or whatever, and I ended up hearing about the opportunity to come to Haynes, Alaska to work for Chill Cat Guides.
• 1:15:31
  SPEAKER_03: And as the story goes, uh, one of the originators was a fellow named Scott Nichols, 1T was his radio handle name.
• 1:15:40
  SPEAKER_03: And as the story that I remember, my and that's always a safe phrase, is it's my understanding, which means could be right or wrong, but it's my understanding.
• 1:15:51
  SPEAKER_03: As the story goes, Scott was up here just on a backpack foray through Haynes and was trying to hitchhike out of Haynes, uh, standing right out on the road with his backpack for more than a day.
• 1:16:07
  SPEAKER_03: And I think it might have been Nelbert, pulled the bus over and said, Hey, you want a job?
• 1:16:12
  SPEAKER_03: And that's how he ended up getting a job at Chilcat Guides.
• 1:16:16
  SPEAKER_03: Uh-huh.
• 1:16:17
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, and then came home to Texas and was like mind blown, y'all, next summer.
• 1:16:25
  SPEAKER_03: You know, so as our story went, Scott went up and then came home and then, and then he brought two friends, and then they brought two friends, and so on, and so on.
• 1:16:34
  SPEAKER_03: And so I'm in like the next, so generation 2003 on my way up.
• 1:16:39
  SPEAKER_03: I knew enough to have a job.
• 1:16:42
  SPEAKER_03: I was hired as a bus driver.
• 1:16:45
  SPEAKER_03: And the buddy of mine that was coming up was all aces for working out at the at the Glacier, at Glacier Point.
• 1:16:51
  SPEAKER_03: And at the time we had one flip phone between the two of us because nobody, I think it was after that summer that in Bellingham I went to a store and got a burner phone.
• 1:17:02
  SPEAKER_03: Like, okay, I'll get a cell phone, you know, or it just wasn't prolific, even in this was 2003.
• 1:17:09
  SPEAKER_03: I don't even think maybe I had, I don't even know.
• 1:17:12
  SPEAKER_03: Anyway, um so we ended up a buddy of ours, Keith Barsh, called us.
• 1:17:20
  SPEAKER_03: We were about to cross out of Bellingham into Canada, and he said, Two guides, one guy's injured, and another person didn't show up.
• 1:17:31
  SPEAKER_03: Guide school starts in three days, get here.
• 1:17:35
  SPEAKER_03: So we beat feet through Canadian, actually decided to drop down from Whitehorse into Skagway and then take the ferry over from Skagway.
• 1:17:45
  SPEAKER_03: We landed in Haynes in the dark and had no idea what we were doing.
• 1:17:53
  SPEAKER_03: You know, like looking for chill, like, should we try?
• 1:17:55
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, it was past midnight.
• 1:17:56
  SPEAKER_03: It was one of those in the middle of the night boats.
• 1:17:58
  SPEAKER_03: And I remember we driving and it was raining.
• 1:18:02
  SPEAKER_03: We saw the red building at the time.
• 1:18:04
  SPEAKER_03: It was the red building that still, I think, had a chilkat guide shingle on it, but it was clearly, this is clearly not the operation we're looking for.
• 1:18:12
  SPEAKER_03: Had no idea.
• 1:18:13
  SPEAKER_03: I think in retrospect, I figured out that we ended up driving out Mud Bay and just parking on the side of the road.
• 1:18:20
  SPEAKER_03: Like this was even past the camp.
• 1:18:22
  SPEAKER_03: Like we didn't even know what we were doing.
• 1:18:23
  SPEAKER_03: We just pulled the truck over, popped the tent, and then went to sleep in the rain on the side of the road, not having any idea about Haynes or anything like that.
• 1:18:33
  SPEAKER_03: And then showed up for guide school in 2003.
• 1:18:38
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, we called it Cambodia at the time.
• 1:18:41
  SPEAKER_03: So we lived back in behind the Chilkat guide's office back there.
• 1:18:45
  SPEAKER_03: And I remember that morning waking up because it was uh it was an early call, or like days, days, days, day a day and a half or whatever.
• 1:18:57
  SPEAKER_03: But we're pitching a tent back with everybody, and I remember bright and bright and early in the morning hearing the sound like Gah or I I can't even do it right.
• 1:19:08
  SPEAKER_03: Actually, I do a really good Raven, but it was the sound, it was the Raven party sound.
• 1:19:13
  SPEAKER_03: They make that that one particular sound, and I had no idea what it was.
• 1:19:18
  SPEAKER_03: I thought it was one of the senior guides just messing about, going through camp to make sure all the newbies were up and we're gonna make the first meeting.
• 1:19:27
  SPEAKER_03: And so every time I hear that sound, like I said, I actually I do a pretty good raven, but my throat's dry and I've been talking, so I can't really pull that off.
• 1:19:36
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, and yeah, ended up working when I trained for I was 30 by that time as a new Glazier Point guide.
• 1:19:44
  SPEAKER_03: I was one of the elders already.
• 1:19:47
  SPEAKER_03: And so it was a really interesting learning curve.
• 1:19:49
  SPEAKER_03: I was more interested in the camp scene.
• 1:19:52
  SPEAKER_03: Like, oh, live off grid, already done that.
• 1:19:56
  SPEAKER_03: Like I've lived out of a car and a tent, a cut, you know, like just all over the West Coast for a long period of time.
• 1:20:02
  SPEAKER_03: So my struggle then was actually to check off as a guide.
• 1:20:06
  SPEAKER_03: So some of the other guys I'd, and men and women that I'd trained with already had experience with outboards.
• 1:20:14
  SPEAKER_03: Like I'm comfortable on the water, I could canoe.
• 1:20:16
  SPEAKER_03: I grew up sailing a little bit, but outward outboards, no.
• 1:20:21
  SPEAKER_03: So I had to be strongly encouraged to like go get checked off because I was like, I'll cook dinner, I'll do this, or maintenance, you know, whatever, but I wasn't making enough.
• 1:20:33
  SPEAKER_03: I remember at the time it was that Darren Schweinefus was the manager, and he looked at me, he was like, Do you want to do you want to make some money?
• 1:20:42
  SPEAKER_03: I was like, Well, yeah.
• 1:20:43
  SPEAKER_03: And then actually, so my radio handle out there was born in a very natural way.
• 1:20:48
  SPEAKER_03: Every morning, so everybody out there has your radio handle, like it or not.
• 1:20:54
  SPEAKER_03: And this one morning, every every morning you had to go clean the canoes, so to make sure that they were ready for operations, and we called it the buff.
• 1:21:03
  SPEAKER_03: You gotta go buff out the canoes, start all the engines, make sure that they have enough fuel, bail them out if they need it, make sure they're all ready to go for the trips.
• 1:21:12
  SPEAKER_03: He's like, Hey, do you wanna uh do you want to buff this morning?
• 1:21:16
  SPEAKER_03: I was like, Yeah, sure, just call me Buffy, like totally off-handed.
• 1:21:20
  SPEAKER_03: He was like, Okay, that's it.
• 1:21:22
  SPEAKER_03: So that would that became my Buffy radio handle, and I could play with that a lot on the job of Buffy, the canoe slayer.
• 1:21:28
  SPEAKER_03: That wasn't it, it was just because I was reticent to get checked off, but finally did, and then made a career out of it, six years.
• 1:21:38
  SPEAKER_03: All at times.
• 1:21:39
  SPEAKER_03: Top deal, yep, top tier spiel spiel level three, like making buku dinero, and it was it was really great.
• 1:21:46
  SPEAKER_05: So, how how does that work?
• 1:21:48
  SPEAKER_05: Because you were going, because there's a lot of that when you're making the Buku Danero, is that a lot of that on the spieling that tips and so there's a dealer?
• 1:21:55
  SPEAKER_03: Right, and so this is also it's so funny.
• 1:21:57
  SPEAKER_03: Like, what is time is a oh my gosh, it's seven already.
• 1:22:01
  SPEAKER_03: Uh I've recently sharing with a friend that I thought time is a river, and she said, No, time is an ocean with riptides.
• 1:22:08
  SPEAKER_03: So which is true as far as like did a minute just pass or an hour.
• 1:22:14
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so how it worked, uh, for anybody that doesn't know, or the at the time, the iteration of the glacier point scene, uh, worked like a round robin, and it was just more cost-effective to have the staff live out there, right?
• 1:22:29
  SPEAKER_03: And so everybody, obviously, I have the gift of gab, and that was leveraging in my communication studies degree, so degree of public speaking.
• 1:22:39
  SPEAKER_03: You might also not know this because I didn't share it.
• 1:22:41
  SPEAKER_03: I come from a long line of teachers.
• 1:22:44
  SPEAKER_03: When I graduated college, my grandma wanted to, she said she would give me a$5,000 uh bonus or something for if I got my teaching certificate.
• 1:22:54
  SPEAKER_03: And at the time, of course, I was like, you can't bribe me, I don't want to do that.
• 1:22:59
  SPEAKER_03: Whatever.
• 1:23:00
  SPEAKER_05: Oh, you can't be bought, grandma.
• 1:23:02
  SPEAKER_03: So the way it worked out is the the merit-based, the better you are at it, the more you got to do it.
• 1:23:08
  SPEAKER_03: Or the more, and and it was all about the comment cards.
• 1:23:10
  SPEAKER_03: So the more comment cards come back and say, We had a great trip with you, then the more you get to go on the boat because the better the comment cards, the more sales, the more, the more they sell the trip.
• 1:23:21
  SPEAKER_03: So they want their best talkers doing the whole um doing the whole spiel, doing the whole show.
• 1:23:28
  SPEAKER_03: And so I figured that so obviously you have to check off with your hard skills as a canoeist, as a guide, but then it is this whole other showman realm of you go meet the people in Skagway.
• 1:23:43
  SPEAKER_03: And at the time, I got to ride on the do you remember the CX?
• 1:23:47
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, the Chilcat Express.
• 1:23:49
  SPEAKER_03: Chilcat Express.
• 1:23:50
  SPEAKER_03: Oh man, that boat was so much fun.
• 1:23:53
  SPEAKER_03: That was a that was a really sweet boat to work on.
• 1:23:55
  SPEAKER_03: In Edmonds, Washington now.
• 1:23:56
  SPEAKER_03: Ugh.
• 1:23:58
  SPEAKER_03: They that those engines, what could uh I remember some of the stats on that where you could just nerd out on like empty or fill uh an Olympic-sized swimming pool in what you probably know the stats in like seconds.
• 1:24:12
  SPEAKER_05: But it was that thing was phenomenally back.
• 1:24:14
  SPEAKER_03: Very cool.
• 1:24:15
  SPEAKER_03: So that was the trip.
• 1:24:16
  SPEAKER_03: Is that a 45-minute or so?
• 1:24:18
  SPEAKER_03: You know, you tell tell everybody about the neighborhood.
• 1:24:21
  SPEAKER_03: So you could talk about, and and at the time when we trained, it was a tomb.
• 1:24:26
  SPEAKER_03: It was a book of local knowledge, and it was a really fast ramp up on glaciology, geology, the plants, the native history, the cultural history, and it was such a cool, one of the coolest aspects on of the job was uh the at the time, and no diss to anybody else, but I got to work with a dream team that was sweet senior.
• 1:24:52
  SPEAKER_03: Larry Sweet Sr.
• 1:24:53
  SPEAKER_03: was the captain, junior was the engineer, and Natasha was the purser.
• 1:24:58
  SPEAKER_03: So there was this short window of opportunity that it was a really sweet time, if you will.
• 1:25:04
  SPEAKER_03: But uh that that was uh that was very cool.
• 1:25:06
  SPEAKER_03: And so the idea was you, if you were the spieler, you'd bring the people over, they'd run the trip, and then maybe you would stay there that night and somebody else would go over to Skagway and pick them up.
• 1:25:20
  SPEAKER_03: Unless the way the number shook out, sometimes you I you would just spiel back and forth and just go back and just you were the one to do it.
• 1:25:29
  SPEAKER_03: And uh the last year I worked there, I was kind of over it, and I I did the last summer was really cool.
• 1:25:35
  SPEAKER_03: I worked at Glacier Point mostly as a spieler, and then I worked at the fireweed.
• 1:25:41
  SPEAKER_03: I rolled pizzas before there was, so this was the fireweed under Lisa.
• 1:25:46
  SPEAKER_03: So it was Avi at the fireweed, and then Adam, and then Lisa.
• 1:25:53
  SPEAKER_03: No, it's the other way around.
• 1:25:55
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, you're right.
• 1:25:56
  SPEAKER_03: Um it was so it was Avi, Lisa, Adam, Sarah.
• 1:26:00
  SPEAKER_03: So I worked under where was I?
• 1:26:04
  SPEAKER_03: I just lost Lisa Lisa and uh rolled pizza dough before there was the the dough roller.
• 1:26:11
  SPEAKER_03: And let me tell you, between paddling a canoe and rolling the pizzas, my I was totally ripped.
• 1:26:18
  SPEAKER_03: And it was very cool.
• 1:26:19
  SPEAKER_03: And so that was a that was a very neat experience.
• 1:26:22
  SPEAKER_03: The other thing I want to add that you didn't ask about, call uh just uh interesting after 2008, so I got to come up in 2003, and like there's always inflation, but like gas prices went through the roof.
• 1:26:40
  SPEAKER_03: I feel like it was a different, not bad, but a different breed of the summer guide coming up because I was in the last throws of like a couple hundred bucks and a very loose concept of what was gonna happen in the summer is enough to get you from Texas to Alaska.
• 1:27:03
  SPEAKER_03: You know, like a couple hundred bucks and an idea, you know, make it.
• 1:27:06
  SPEAKER_03: But but these days with the price of fuel, it's like you have to really have a solid plan of of what you're doing and where you're going.
• 1:27:14
  SPEAKER_03: And also appreciating, like with the housing at the time, I can't tell you the first several years through the course of not only Glacier Point, but even wintering here, I have lived in a variety of trailers and uh interesting rental units, and it's so very interesting with a concept of coming up through a system.
• 1:27:40
  SPEAKER_03: Like, what are the expectations of someone arriving in Haynes to build a life?
• 1:27:46
  SPEAKER_03: And in order to build a life here, it's like it started in a tent.
• 1:27:51
  SPEAKER_03: I've lived in two different, like very tiny, kind of moldy trailers to all so that to reduce overhead.
• 1:27:58
  SPEAKER_03: Like, how do you reduce the overhead?
• 1:28:01
  SPEAKER_05: So what was your first winter that you spent in Haynes?
• 1:28:04
  SPEAKER_05: Did you spend that first one or did you go back?
• 1:28:06
  SPEAKER_03: No, so the first, so I it was um I worked a summer, went home, worked another summer, stayed.
• 1:28:13
  SPEAKER_03: And I lived on Beach Road uh in Cindy Buxton's, no, yes, in Cindy Buxton's cabin right across the street from the uh Beach Road house.
• 1:28:28
  SPEAKER_03: Uh I spent another winter, winter in the wool attic, which was the last little structure of the Jacobsons originally built by Jacobsons right at beat uh the Beach Road or the um Battery Point Trailhead.
• 1:28:43
  SPEAKER_03: Yep.
• 1:28:44
  SPEAKER_03: I spent a winter in that little wool attic, both of which with outhouses, that was it.
• 1:28:50
  SPEAKER_03: Uh so what made you decide to stay the winter?
• 1:28:54
  SPEAKER_03: I okay to answer that question, I will go back to why I said yes to coming to Alaska is that I really felt like I had a date with Alaska.
• 1:29:09
  SPEAKER_03: And also at age 30, appreciating that it was not on my radar at all.
• 1:29:18
  SPEAKER_03: And also a part of my the back to this kind of Siddhartha like little little Buddha in the big world iteration of like experience.
• 1:29:31
  SPEAKER_03: I've never done that before.
• 1:29:33
  SPEAKER_03: Why not give it a try?
• 1:29:35
  SPEAKER_03: Why limit myself, you know, just go check it out, right?
• 1:29:38
  SPEAKER_05: Um I love it here.
• 1:29:42
  SPEAKER_05: I I mean I'm thinking about why did it, you know, because I'm just wondering because after your first summer you go back home and then your next summer, you're doable.
• 1:29:50
  SPEAKER_05: I'm gonna I'm just gonna stick around.
• 1:29:52
  SPEAKER_05: Because it's you look because you look at it, Susie.
• 1:29:55
  SPEAKER_05: You've you've been here long enough and you've seen enough guides that there's there's a percentage each year that stays.
• 1:30:01
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 1:30:01
  SPEAKER_05: Right?
• 1:30:02
  SPEAKER_05: Some of them just stay for a couple years and then they'll leave.
• 1:30:04
  SPEAKER_05: There's others that came here 20, 30 years ago and they're still here.
• 1:30:10
  SPEAKER_03: They're still here.
• 1:30:10
  SPEAKER_03: Well, going back to the back to the beginning, Doug, too.
• 1:30:13
  SPEAKER_03: I was raised in the city in the suburbs.
• 1:30:15
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:30:16
  SPEAKER_03: And wanted to be Lower Angles.
• 1:30:20
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I grew up on Little House on the Prairie.
• 1:30:22
  SPEAKER_03: The first road trip on Dead Tour, my friend Sharon and I did stop at the little house on the prairie.
• 1:30:28
  SPEAKER_03: And we did, we videoed each other running down the hill and stumbling and falling and rolling in our little Rachel dead little house on the prairie dresses.
• 1:30:37
  SPEAKER_03: But to me, um, and you know, before my my dad always imagined wanting to have a cabin in the woods.
• 1:30:45
  SPEAKER_03: It felt like, it felt like having made it, having, having been born and raised in the suburbs of Philadelphia, what I really wanted was a more simple life.
• 1:31:01
  SPEAKER_03: Like I was raised with parks in the area, but a lot, but you had to pack up in the car to go get it.
• 1:31:08
  SPEAKER_03: You know what I mean?
• 1:31:09
  SPEAKER_03: I just I'll tell you another sideways relational story.
• 1:31:14
  SPEAKER_03: One of the winters that I did go south, I was visiting with some friends of mine down in Texas who, by the way, are very well off for themselves now.
• 1:31:23
  SPEAKER_03: But at the time, part of their arc was that they were intermittently staying in, living in a chiropractor office in a plaza in the city.
• 1:31:35
  SPEAKER_03: Like that was just their house sold before they bought another house.
• 1:31:38
  SPEAKER_03: So part of how they were making it.
• 1:31:40
  SPEAKER_03: So there I was home, vis and I visited my buddies who will remain nameless for the time being.
• 1:31:46
  SPEAKER_03: I visited my buddies, and they were like sandwich routine, a little Caesars, and like some laundromat on the end, and they were like intermittently living in the office.
• 1:31:55
  SPEAKER_03: So we took the dogs for a walk this one day, and it was very much in an urban part of Austin, and then there are flood zone, floodplains every once in a while, and they they look like green spaces, but really what it is it's drainage ditches that are overgrown with grass.
• 1:32:12
  SPEAKER_03: And so we walked the dogs in there and we sat, and there may there may not have been a spleef involved, but uh we sat there and she's like, Sue, can't you just imagine looking out at the scenery and the trees, but not but not seeing any stitch of human imprint.
• 1:32:35
  SPEAKER_03: And I looked and I said, My friend, I just came from there.
• 1:32:39
  SPEAKER_03: Because I had already been up here looking at escape, you know, looking at a uh not an as you know what I mean, looking at a landscape, but looking at a vista and uh not having one shred of human imprint on that vista, and it does something to the nervous system to be able to just breathe and relax and be a part of it.
• 1:33:04
  SPEAKER_03: And so why did I want to I've always because I'm a nature girl because I love the woods, you know.
• 1:33:13
  SPEAKER_03: Deserts fascinate me but terrify me, and I think I love it here so much because it is a little more pure.
• 1:33:22
  SPEAKER_03: It's not.
• 1:33:23
  SPEAKER_03: There's I mean, you can't escape our humanity, right?
• 1:33:27
  SPEAKER_03: You can't escape the story of I can't escape the idea that I know, and I I would be remiss if I didn't say it.
• 1:33:35
  SPEAKER_03: Like this is Klingitani, right?
• 1:33:39
  SPEAKER_03: Before there was a glaciers, and there's a native population, and then here comes a European population.
• 1:33:46
  SPEAKER_03: But I was born and raised in Philadelphia.
• 1:33:48
  SPEAKER_03: So what my, you know, and also I will have a nod to like fewer ghosts.
• 1:33:53
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I have never seen an apparition in my life, but you better bet I am well versed in the scoots, like taking stairs in some old houses that I'd lived in and grown up in, three and four at a time, like just feeling like there's something there, just the energetic imprint of, and also so much war, like the Philadelphia area, like just like the whole eastern seaboard.
• 1:34:17
  SPEAKER_03: So for me, I really appreciate being here on so much more relatively new land.
• 1:34:28
  SPEAKER_03: Relatively new in, not without its own trauma, not without its own part of the human story, but more recently uncovered.
• 1:34:39
  SPEAKER_03: And to me, that's what really excites me is that it's just it's more wild, and I can feel like I feel my voice getting weird, but uh I feel more like a human being here.
• 1:34:56
  SPEAKER_03: And even even through the mania of summer and the business of taking care of Troy, like the there's doing, we have to do, we have to be a part of, but it is more of the part of there's more of a natural order in the part of the dance, like what are we harvesting right now?
• 1:35:15
  SPEAKER_03: What are we protecting ourselves from now?
• 1:35:17
  SPEAKER_03: Or there's another segue right there too of um this place.
• 1:35:24
  SPEAKER_03: I this is uh this will be a little dreamy, but this is part of the part of the dream I have of Haynes, or part of something that I and one of the things I love about this is that there are some people that I've met in Haynes that then years later will tell me, I'll always remember you telling me this, which which makes me want to say it again because it bears repeating.
• 1:35:50
  SPEAKER_03: I feel like Haynes has an animus, like the cat, like the the location itself, right, asks you to meet it halfway.
• 1:36:02
  SPEAKER_03: And everybody's halfway is different, right?
• 1:36:06
  SPEAKER_03: So you can't necessarily pattern yourself off of what somebody else is doing.
• 1:36:11
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, that worked for them, so I'm just gonna try to do what they're doing.
• 1:36:15
  SPEAKER_03: It's like this takes your personal uh boundaries or internal boundaries and asks you, what are you willing to do to thrive here?
• 1:36:27
  SPEAKER_03: And that's why so many successful people wear many different hats.
• 1:36:31
  SPEAKER_03: Like, are you willing to use an outhouse?
• 1:36:34
  SPEAKER_03: And some people will move here and expect to bring their standards of living from where and this is sounds like such a trope because you've we've heard it, but I'm talking on a much deeper level that how are you willing to experience this place?
• 1:36:52
  SPEAKER_03: And I think the more that you are willing to be open to that, the more that Haynes gives back to you.
• 1:36:59
  SPEAKER_03: Like I've seen this in the 20, in the mirror, I respectfully in the mirror 20 years, and I say that because people have spent much more time here than I I've witnessed this place chew people up and spit them out, and also synchronistically embrace some people.
• 1:37:22
  SPEAKER_03: And from if you don't know the deeper stories, it was and you might it may make me it might make one wonder why?
• 1:37:30
  SPEAKER_03: Why did that happen?
• 1:37:31
  SPEAKER_03: Why did it not work out for those people?
• 1:37:33
  SPEAKER_03: Why did it work out so well for those people?
• 1:37:35
  SPEAKER_03: And is it a matter, I wonder, is it a matter of what boundaries of your own are you willing to push with the place itself?
• 1:37:45
  SPEAKER_03: You know, what is gonna make you give up and throw in the towel and be like, nope, I can't do this anymore.
• 1:37:50
  SPEAKER_03: And what are you and and I'm not saying that that's not an unhealthy thing, like the in the subcategories, sometimes you have to, sometimes quitting is for winners.
• 1:37:59
  SPEAKER_03: Sometimes you gotta know when to say this isn't working.
• 1:38:03
  SPEAKER_03: But sometimes, uh, in a river analogy, sometimes it just takes one more paddle stroke to get around the rock, you know, and I think that that's a really interesting observation that I've noticed.
• 1:38:15
  SPEAKER_03: We were talking earlier about some days or doing days and some days are waiting days, or especially with the way the weather patterns work here, as much as you wanted to catch that flight, or as much as you wanted to take that boat ride over there, it's not happening today.
• 1:38:31
  SPEAKER_03: Actually, it's not happening for three or four days.
• 1:38:33
  SPEAKER_03: Actually, it might not happen for a week, you know.
• 1:38:36
  SPEAKER_03: But how much do you have the internal fortitude to bear that determines how well it's gonna work out for you?
• 1:38:47
  SPEAKER_03: And again, not a judgment call on somebody who says, Yeah, screw this, I can't do this.
• 1:38:52
  SPEAKER_03: I'm not here to make that judgment call.
• 1:38:55
  SPEAKER_03: But that's what I notice is that that's what people who are roll with it, is the saying, you know.
• 1:39:02
  SPEAKER_03: Can you roll with it?
• 1:39:04
  SPEAKER_05: Not an easier, not an easy place, not everything's but it's very rewarding.
• 1:39:07
  SPEAKER_05: But it is very rewarding, yes.
• 1:39:10
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:39:10
  SPEAKER_05: So after six years of GP, you move on.
• 1:39:15
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 1:39:16
  SPEAKER_03: Well, enter Old Rod's Market Center.
• 1:39:18
  SPEAKER_03: After six years of Glacier Point, so here's an here's another crazy synchronicity.
• 1:39:27
  SPEAKER_03: I had decided, this was after five years of Glacier Point.
• 1:39:36
  SPEAKER_03: I went back down to Texas and decided I am all in.
• 1:39:40
  SPEAKER_03: This was the road trip south that I was gonna collect the last couple of things I had in my brother's garage and just move, just move up.
• 1:39:48
  SPEAKER_03: I was doing it.
• 1:39:50
  SPEAKER_03: And um, so I go to do that.
• 1:39:54
  SPEAKER_03: I'm on my way back up, and I had a plan.
• 1:39:56
  SPEAKER_03: I was gonna stay at the cherry house at the time Dina um owned the cherry house.
• 1:40:01
  SPEAKER_03: I was, and this was the plan.
• 1:40:03
  SPEAKER_03: I was driving up from Texas through Colorado, visit a buddy of mine on my way to catch the ferry to come up.
• 1:40:11
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, and it was all planned, all timing.
• 1:40:13
  SPEAKER_03: I'm gonna live at Dina's for the winter.
• 1:40:15
  SPEAKER_03: It's getting cold.
• 1:40:17
  SPEAKER_03: I'm in Colorado on a timeline to get to the boat, to get to the thing.
• 1:40:22
  SPEAKER_03: And Dina calls or messages me or whatever, and she's like, I am so sorry to tell you this.
• 1:40:28
  SPEAKER_03: But the boiler like exploded at the cherry house, and I cannot, in good conscience, have you live there.
• 1:40:37
  SPEAKER_03: And at the time, I was just, I learned from a good friend of mine, sometimes in life you just act as if, all right, I just act as if that's fine.
• 1:40:44
  SPEAKER_03: Yep.
• 1:40:45
  SPEAKER_03: All right, well, thanks for letting me know.
• 1:40:47
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm I'm the duck on top, I'm the I'm the feathers on top, and the feet like fatty like crazy.
• 1:40:54
  SPEAKER_03: What am I gonna do?
• 1:40:56
  SPEAKER_03: But just like I have the vision, I'm our I'm I'm locked and loaded, I'm going the ferry, the car's loaded, the ferry tickets bought.
• 1:41:03
  SPEAKER_03: What if everything, what if everything is gonna be okay?
• 1:41:06
  SPEAKER_03: Here's another mental rule or trick is just like we know in life, sometimes tragedy will strike out of nowhere.
• 1:41:17
  SPEAKER_03: And you can't expect it.
• 1:41:20
  SPEAKER_03: You're you you just have to deal with it.
• 1:41:22
  SPEAKER_03: It is a really powerful mental tool to hold throwing numbers out there, 10 to 20 percent of your reserves for spontaneous miracles that you could not have possibly planned for.
• 1:41:39
  SPEAKER_03: And then that way it can meet you.
• 1:41:41
  SPEAKER_03: You know, when you have a little bit of room left for like, I could not have seen that coming.
• 1:41:46
  SPEAKER_03: And yet there it was.
• 1:41:47
  SPEAKER_03: So this is what happened.
• 1:41:48
  SPEAKER_03: I'm on the ferry, still like I don't really have a plan.
• 1:41:52
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I don't really have, it's like it's after Thanksgiving.
• 1:41:56
  SPEAKER_03: It's like December.
• 1:41:58
  SPEAKER_03: What am I gonna where am I gonna live?
• 1:41:59
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know.
• 1:42:00
  SPEAKER_03: Something's gonna, something is going to happen.
• 1:42:03
  SPEAKER_03: It's not a deciding day.
• 1:42:04
  SPEAKER_03: It's not a deciding day, so I'm not gonna worry about it.
• 1:42:08
  SPEAKER_03: I am in catch a can and I decided, well, if everything was fine, what would Susie do?
• 1:42:16
  SPEAKER_03: If everything was totally, I would call up, like, hey, I'm gonna be in town on Wednesday.
• 1:42:21
  SPEAKER_03: What are you guys doing?
• 1:42:22
  SPEAKER_03: I called Lisa, Loeb, Lisa from the Fire Reed.
• 1:42:26
  SPEAKER_03: Hey, Lisa, I'm on my way back up.
• 1:42:28
  SPEAKER_03: What's going on?
• 1:42:29
  SPEAKER_03: What's what's shaking?
• 1:42:31
  SPEAKER_03: She said, Well, actually, I just headed so I I just headed south.
• 1:42:37
  SPEAKER_03: And uh, so you know, I don't really know what's going on.
• 1:42:40
  SPEAKER_03: And I was like, then I had my moment of truth.
• 1:42:43
  SPEAKER_03: I'm like, actually, Lisa, I'm host.
• 1:42:46
  SPEAKER_03: This is my situation.
• 1:42:47
  SPEAKER_03: And she's like, call Melina right now.
• 1:42:52
  SPEAKER_03: I just empty I just left the room that she had for rent.
• 1:42:56
  SPEAKER_03: She doesn't have anybody in there right now.
• 1:42:57
  SPEAKER_03: I hung up the phone and I called Melina and I was like, I'm host.
• 1:43:01
  SPEAKER_03: She's like, Yep, I got a spot for you.
• 1:43:04
  SPEAKER_03: And so it was seamless.
• 1:43:06
  SPEAKER_03: So had I spent the previous week freaking out, I would have done nothing.
• 1:43:11
  SPEAKER_03: But I just like rolled with it of like, I know I'm gonna just trust that something's gonna happen.
• 1:43:17
  SPEAKER_03: So from there, so I'm living with Melina.
• 1:43:21
  SPEAKER_03: I run into somebody, turns out old Mick McArthur needed somebody.
• 1:43:25
  SPEAKER_03: So at the time, Mick is at that last tie who's out at that last hell at Michael Stark's place now, with his pacemaker, just needed somebody to help him chop wood, carry water, all that stuff.
• 1:43:37
  SPEAKER_03: So I would go out, so I I got looped in to this program that I would go out and visit with Nick, chop some wood, shovel some snow for an hour.
• 1:43:49
  SPEAKER_03: Then he'd invite me in for lunch, have a beer, get to talking, pay me for three hours, you know, like whatever.
• 1:43:56
  SPEAKER_03: So we get to talking, and as it turns out, Michael was trying to buy his house, and Mick brokered, and Michael had to get out of the little cabin on small tracks.
• 1:44:12
  SPEAKER_03: So Mick McCarter started in his words whispering, singing the praises, singing the glory of owner financing to Michael, and Mick convinced Michael to owner finance me into buying that little cabin on small tracks so that he could finish, he could buy Mick's place.
• 1:44:38
  SPEAKER_03: And that's how that, and all absolutely through this word of mouth.
• 1:44:43
  SPEAKER_03: And I remember at the time thinking, I can't be a home owner house, really, already.
• 1:44:49
  SPEAKER_03: But at the time, so that that the structure of that is it's this tiny little 500 square foot cabin with an over roof and an overroof and a shipping container.
• 1:44:58
  SPEAKER_03: And I remember when I first moved in thinking, well, if I freak out, I could always just pull the truck into the container, rent the place out, and go fly and go be somewhere else.
• 1:45:10
  SPEAKER_03: Like if I if I flip out and decide I can't do that.
• 1:45:13
  SPEAKER_03: So this is where Old Roots comes in, also, Doug, because I realized, so I buy the place.
• 1:45:19
  SPEAKER_03: This is before I started working at Old Roots, actually.
• 1:45:21
  SPEAKER_03: So I so I get into the place and I realize also that year I didn't get that big$3,000 um PFD because I stayed in Texas a little longer, being there for my brother, right?
• 1:45:35
  SPEAKER_03: So and mom was like, Can't you just he was going through a divorce?
• 1:45:38
  SPEAKER_03: He's like, Can't you just stay a little bit longer?
• 1:45:41
  SPEAKER_03: Can you just please be there for your brother?
• 1:45:43
  SPEAKER_03: Well, as it turns out, I lost out on that um PFD because I was gone for too long.
• 1:45:49
  SPEAKER_03: So I closed on the house, I made it work, but then I was so broke again with the mental program of not not to be delusional, but to act as if.
• 1:45:59
  SPEAKER_03: What if everything was fine?
• 1:46:00
  SPEAKER_03: Like I was so broke at that time.
• 1:46:03
  SPEAKER_03: I I specifically brought bought bacon so that I would have cooking fat, right?
• 1:46:09
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm not gonna buy, I'm not gonna waste money on like olive oil, but I'll buy a little, I'll buy some butter and I'll buy some bacon and then I'll save the fat from the bacon so that I can saute stuff and the bacon, you know, it was that kind of stuff.
• 1:46:22
  SPEAKER_03: So then I heard about that there was this ladies' night party, pedicure party down at Michelle Labrasse's place, right?
• 1:46:29
  SPEAKER_03: And I really, I wasn't sure how I was gonna make my mortgage that month.
• 1:46:33
  SPEAKER_03: And um it was like late spring.
• 1:46:36
  SPEAKER_03: I I was making it happen, but it was starting to get really tight before guide work started again.
• 1:46:42
  SPEAKER_03: And uh I was invited to a pedicure party, and I was thinking, how much gas do I have in the car?
• 1:46:48
  SPEAKER_03: Can I really do this?
• 1:46:48
  SPEAKER_03: What should I be doing?
• 1:46:49
  SPEAKER_03: And then I was like, but if everything were fine, what would Susie do?
• 1:46:54
  SPEAKER_03: Susie would totally go to a pedicure party if everything were fine.
• 1:46:58
  SPEAKER_03: So I go to the pedicure party, and this is at uh Michelle's Doubt Viking Cove or the that propois point, right?
• 1:47:07
  SPEAKER_03: And we're just getting to talking, and she says, I don't know what I'm gonna do.
• 1:47:13
  SPEAKER_03: I gotta go to this for this business meeting, and but Kate's gotta get to school.
• 1:47:19
  SPEAKER_03: I need somebody to drive Kate to school.
• 1:47:21
  SPEAKER_03: And I was like, I could drive Kate to school.
• 1:47:23
  SPEAKER_03: She's like, I need you to do this for like a week.
• 1:47:26
  SPEAKER_03: What do you need?
• 1:47:26
  SPEAKER_03: Like, is 500 enough?
• 1:47:29
  SPEAKER_03: And it was like the almost exact amount of my mortgage payment.
• 1:47:32
  SPEAKER_03: And I was just like, had I sat at home and ate worms and ruminated about all my poor life choices, I don't know what would have happened.
• 1:47:42
  SPEAKER_03: But I decided to just let it go and go to the pedicure party, and the offer came.
• 1:47:47
  SPEAKER_03: And uh, so that's where like life is this weird cosmic soup when you just let it go, let it go with the flow, you know.
• 1:47:56
  SPEAKER_03: Anyway, so then work started for Glacier Point, and then I ended up getting a job at Oldroods that summer because I realized mortgages are 12 months and guide work is only six months at best, and so that's when I first entered into the the Old Roods family.
• 1:48:12
  SPEAKER_03: Was that was that summer?
• 1:48:14
  SPEAKER_03: Was that winter?
• 1:48:16
  SPEAKER_03: And that was cool anyway.
• 1:48:20
  SPEAKER_03: And I mean, my whole really we could just fast forward.
• 1:48:24
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, yes, I have a daughter, yes, I was you know married, and there's a whole amazing story about all of that, and all of the stories with the birth of my daughter and her 15 years.
• 1:48:35
  SPEAKER_03: But what's cool about this is to talk about my whole life that was 30 years of living before I really even came to Haynes, and then some of you know, or in the early guide work before I even became a mom.
• 1:48:54
  SPEAKER_03: And not to glaze over that, but that's its whole other the past 15 years being a uh wife and mother and all of that is its whole other, it's a whole other five hours of a story.
• 1:49:06
  SPEAKER_03: But then all of that leads into why hypnotherapy.
• 1:49:10
  SPEAKER_05: Well, before we get to the hypnotherapy, yeah, what was it about your childhood working as a guide, moving around?
• 1:49:17
  SPEAKER_05: How do you think that has shaped you as a mother and the lessons you're trying to instill in your daughter?
• 1:49:24
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, I would say so.
• 1:49:26
  SPEAKER_03: I understand the gen uh generational cycles, right?
• 1:49:31
  SPEAKER_03: And what a wonderful time to be alive in so many ways where uh lore meets science, where um cliches meet data.
• 1:49:44
  SPEAKER_03: If if if you if that makes it does make sense to me because uh we now have been uh we now have been studying people for long enough to prove, to disprove, but also prove some cliches and Adajes.
• 1:50:00
  SPEAKER_03: So generational cycle, generational curses, generational cycles.
• 1:50:05
  SPEAKER_03: Like when you're raised thinking that um I'm just I I'm at a loss for more eloquent words, but if you're raised to think that poop is gold, and you you you that's what you teach your kids, right?
• 1:50:21
  SPEAKER_03: When you when you you teach your kids what you know and then when you learn better, you do better, right?
• 1:50:29
  SPEAKER_03: And so that's what I'm that's how I approached my own motherhood is recognizing that I was parented and also I feel like an incredible gift.
• 1:50:42
  SPEAKER_03: I did not become a mother until I was 40.
• 1:50:45
  SPEAKER_03: A geriatric pregnancy.
• 1:50:48
  SPEAKER_03: Um what I lost in physical resilience with you know the necessity of parenting an infants, infant, I absolutely gained in some degree of self-awareness that my mom parented as a 24-year-old married to a Vietnam vet alcoholic, and just, I mean, she, I was in daycare um from three months old, and we're talking not like not like Kim Larson.
• 1:51:21
  SPEAKER_03: This was like some who are these strangers taking care of my kid?
• 1:51:25
  SPEAKER_03: Like this is like we're thinking big big city kid.
• 1:51:28
  SPEAKER_03: Were there some weird untoward things were things that things happen to me that I don't know about?
• 1:51:33
  SPEAKER_03: Maybe, I don't know.
• 1:51:34
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but I'm gonna try to stick to the question.
• 1:51:37
  SPEAKER_03: I wanted to do things differently.
• 1:51:40
  SPEAKER_03: Uh I was in daycare from a very young age.
• 1:51:45
  SPEAKER_03: Then my mom was a single mom for a while.
• 1:51:48
  SPEAKER_03: Uh because my my parents were divorced when I was 11.
• 1:51:52
  SPEAKER_03: And always working.
• 1:51:55
  SPEAKER_03: And I wanted to be more available.
• 1:51:57
  SPEAKER_03: I nursed my daughter for two years.
• 1:52:00
  SPEAKER_03: I wanted to, I wanted, I wanted to give her that advantage in life, and I got I'm already so far removed from it.
• 1:52:08
  SPEAKER_03: Um but at the time I was all into like attachment.
• 1:52:15
  SPEAKER_03: Like, um, that is a huge part of the conversation around being a whole human being is our attachment styles.
• 1:52:27
  SPEAKER_03: And even through the sad story of studying children who have gone through orphanages and terrible animal experimentation of like the there's a classic chimpanzee uh story where they take, they give them, they give them food but no nurturing, and they like atrophy and pretty much die, right?
• 1:52:47
  SPEAKER_03: And so I wonder that part of, or I know that part of the way we had, we we develop maladaptive coping strategies to get what we needed as kids that we didn't get as kids.
• 1:53:01
  SPEAKER_03: So, right, so what I feel like my experience is is that I was fed and cared for, but I'm a person that needed more contact than I really got.
• 1:53:11
  SPEAKER_03: Like I still have memories of like trying to crawl up on my mom, and she was she's a loving, nurturing person, nothing wrong.
• 1:53:18
  SPEAKER_03: This is also how people, how we were parented as kids.
• 1:53:21
  SPEAKER_03: Like, go, go play, go uh, get uh more than oh, come here, honey, what's going on?
• 1:53:28
  SPEAKER_03: Or rub some dirt in it, you're fine, go, go, go.
• 1:53:30
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I'm busy adulting, you know.
• 1:53:33
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and so how that has informed informed my parenting is appreciating that there is no such thing as fostering independence in an infant.
• 1:53:48
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm whispering because it is such a I hear so often, and this is absolutely a soapbox of people who talk about like, and forgive me if I offend anybody here, but the what I what worked for me is despite any naysayers, the more you lean into the dependency of very young children, the more grounded they truly are in their independence.
• 1:54:21
  SPEAKER_03: Like when they're ready, they've got both feet on the ground, they are secure.
• 1:54:24
  SPEAKER_03: I know I'm loved, I know I'm cared for, and they don't have to question that.
• 1:54:29
  SPEAKER_03: Whereas I can feel like um there are, and maybe that's the root of some addiction coming from trauma, is like I'm screaming and crying, and there is not a caregiver coming to help me, you know.
• 1:54:45
  SPEAKER_03: Um there's another aspect to that, and I really try hard to stay, I'll lose my train of thought while I'm on it, which is which is uh interesting.
• 1:54:56
  SPEAKER_05: But um Do you have these conversations with your daughter, kind of letting her know that this is your rationale and checking in with her?
• 1:55:04
  SPEAKER_03: Or is uh well, no, she's just gonna be the first time she's here in some.
• 1:55:07
  SPEAKER_03: She's 15, so I I don't make direct eye contact very often now.
• 1:55:10
  SPEAKER_03: And I say that very lovingly, but of like I I'm not privy to her.
• 1:55:15
  SPEAKER_03: But I but I also can feel what I have to remind myself is that I am secure in the kind of mother that I was for her when she needed me as as a very young child, much to the I mean, much to the naysaying of like my mom has said, I think she's a little too empowered when she was younger, or like in some circles of like, you know, nursing until she's two.
• 1:55:37
  SPEAKER_03: Wait, what?
• 1:55:38
  SPEAKER_03: I'm like, well, you know, oh, so here's the other thought, uh, just to stay cohesive, um, that I find fascinating anthropologically, is the price we pay for walking upright is giving birth to underdeveloped babies.
• 1:56:04
  SPEAKER_03: Right?
• 1:56:05
  SPEAKER_03: So this is and so for me, I am actually as woo-woo as sometimes some of my some of my stuff is, it really is based in anthropology and science and stuff.
• 1:56:17
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I just soaked in so much as a as a new mom, and the with a concept of attachment theories, and like the idea is that female pelvises in the upright walker is are much smaller than even um the apes or other animals, and so in the animals that walk on four legs, their pelvic uh opening is much larger, and that's why in the animal kingdom you have much more developed babies that are ready, whether like shoot, horses, cows, shoot, whatever, like they're born and boom, go run.
• 1:56:53
  SPEAKER_03: Like, well, that's because you're so they're so much more developed in utero.
• 1:56:57
  SPEAKER_03: But even going to the human or or uh the uh ape family or you know uh other such um creatures, in order structurally for us to uh walk upright, our pelvises are smaller and our and and really the the the what word am I working for?
• 1:57:17
  SPEAKER_03: The the writings are about um the first nine months are actually the last trimester until that kid is nine almost nine months old.
• 1:57:30
  SPEAKER_03: That's your last trimester of of fetal development because you have to come out at that point in order to make it in order to make it out, but you really are so needy, you know, and so underdeveloped.
• 1:57:47
  SPEAKER_03: And that's the approach that I took with my with my little weenie.
• 1:57:53
  SPEAKER_03: Although, you know, I'm also very much of this world.
• 1:57:56
  SPEAKER_03: I will just fast forward like, okay, during COVID, we tried homeschooling.
• 1:58:01
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, there were tears, they were mine.
• 1:58:03
  SPEAKER_03: Uh that was not a good fit for our family.
• 1:58:07
  SPEAKER_03: Uh she uh but anyway, that that was kind of out of left field, but it's just one of my zingers that I cracked myself up with.
• 1:58:14
  SPEAKER_05: So what um I don't know if you want to delve into this or not, but I think people would get get your side of this is when when did cancer come into play?
• 1:58:25
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 1:58:26
  SPEAKER_03: So, cancer for me, there's so much I don't know.
• 1:58:30
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, there's so much I don't know.
• 1:58:32
  SPEAKER_03: And I and first of all, I'm gonna preamble all of this.
• 1:58:35
  SPEAKER_03: There's eight billion people on the planet.
• 1:58:38
  SPEAKER_03: How much do any of us really know?
• 1:58:40
  SPEAKER_03: Even when we think we know, even when we think we've read all the studies and this is what they say, how do we really know, right?
• 1:58:47
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, and I don't mean to sound like a total flake when I say that, but there's just there's more mystery than I think our little pea brains will allow for.
• 1:58:57
  SPEAKER_03: But so we look at the data.
• 1:58:58
  SPEAKER_03: Where did cancer come from?
• 1:58:59
  SPEAKER_03: I'll tell you, Doug.
• 1:59:03
  SPEAKER_05: Well, maybe not necessarily where it came from, but when did that when did that enter into uh tw so here's the here's the arc.
• 1:59:10
  SPEAKER_03: So what year is it?
• 1:59:11
  SPEAKER_03: 2026?
• 1:59:12
  SPEAKER_05: Yep.
• 1:59:13
  SPEAKER_03: 25, 24.
• 1:59:15
  SPEAKER_03: I'm gonna go back to 2023.
• 1:59:17
  SPEAKER_03: I was diagnosed in 2024 in the spring.
• 1:59:23
  SPEAKER_03: But I have to go back to 2023, and this was in an arc, okay, so or the whole arc of my uh of of the recent life.
• 1:59:34
  SPEAKER_03: We um um we chose to be a single-income family from the get-go for me to be a stay-at-home mom because both Jeff and I were raised in what I believe what we we came to call proximal abandonment, right?
• 1:59:51
  SPEAKER_03: Both of his parents worked.
• 1:59:53
  SPEAKER_03: This is patients, his daddy Jeff.
• 1:59:55
  SPEAKER_03: Uh both of his parents worked, but we were very well cared for.
• 1:59:59
  SPEAKER_03: Both my parents worked, but we were tended to, but where there was also this lack of primary attachment, because it was always going.
• 2:00:07
  SPEAKER_03: So we decided early on we wanted to do something different for patients.
• 2:00:10
  SPEAKER_03: So I spent a lot of years of our marriage just as a stay-at-home mom, and then also did some gig work going on.
• 2:00:17
  SPEAKER_03: So I was also, I was in an arc of really starting to feel like I was coming into my uh went to a writer's conference.
• 2:00:26
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, how can I really come more out of doing gig works, but but step into what my career, my what do I really want to do besides just raise, be the kid raiser?
• 2:00:35
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, she's 10, 11, 12.
• 2:00:37
  SPEAKER_03: It's past time for me to be doing something different.
• 2:00:39
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm having this summer.
• 2:00:41
  SPEAKER_03: I'm working for Takshinook Mountain Guides, which is fun.
• 2:00:44
  SPEAKER_03: It's outside, it's doing stuff.
• 2:00:46
  SPEAKER_03: I love guide work because it is teaching in the coolest classwork classroom ever.
• 2:00:53
  SPEAKER_03: Everything seemed to be coming together in a lot of really great ways for me.
• 2:00:58
  SPEAKER_03: And then I got a call that uh in May that my brother had stage four cancer of unknown primary, my only brother.
• 2:01:05
  SPEAKER_03: Um I went down to Texas to be with him.
• 2:01:10
  SPEAKER_03: He was he was so far gone that even though they were throwing everything at it, and I'm talking chemo, as well as going down to the uh what's the Oasis of Hope in Mexico, doing all sorts of just literally trying to throw everything at it, but it had advanced so far because he ignored his symptoms for so long.
• 2:01:36
  SPEAKER_03: He went into the doctor with excruciating back pain and was referred like you you have cancer everywhere, all over, because he ignored it for so long.
• 2:01:45
  SPEAKER_03: Um while I was down in Texas, Jeff called and said, you know, I've been feeling like shit for a really long time.
• 2:01:55
  SPEAKER_03: Pardon my French.
• 2:01:57
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm going, I'm going into the search and I'm gonna see what's going on.
• 2:02:03
  SPEAKER_03: He was diagnosed with lymphoma.
• 2:02:06
  SPEAKER_03: So now my brother is and he was Dave was diagnosed in December, or diagnosed in May and dead in December.
• 2:02:14
  SPEAKER_03: Jeff receives Oh my god, that was quick.
• 2:02:17
  SPEAKER_05: He was far along.
• 2:02:18
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 2:02:19
  SPEAKER_03: Because by the time he was getting treatment, his body was too weak to bear it.
• 2:02:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 2:02:25
  SPEAKER_03: Um Jeff receives his diagnosis and starts going in for treatment, which is successful.
• 2:02:32
  SPEAKER_03: Things are kind of okay.
• 2:02:33
  SPEAKER_03: But this, so this is what where did it come from in me?
• 2:02:36
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, this is, you know, a girl who was really not raised to be June Cleaver per se.
• 2:02:44
  SPEAKER_03: You know, so like I would just always seeing over the rainbow, like what more, but also wanting to hold the fort down and raise my daughter in a stable environment and stay, stay, stay, we're here, we're here, we're here.
• 2:02:55
  SPEAKER_03: And then just starting to branch back out and being, feeling more like me, like a bigger aspect of me.
• 2:03:01
  SPEAKER_03: And and I I love being a mom, but I also I was I was not even a big sister.
• 2:03:07
  SPEAKER_03: I didn't ever have a lot of kids.
• 2:03:08
  SPEAKER_03: It was a real challenge for me to feel like I'm doing the right thing by this little by this human being, right?
• 2:03:15
  SPEAKER_03: To try to hold the sky up for and be stable and all of this stuff.
• 2:03:19
  SPEAKER_03: And it was in March.
• 2:03:25
  SPEAKER_03: Jeff was going up for his last infusion, and I noticed a rash, and I was actually doing some catering for the heli skiers, and I thought, oh, it was just a really busy shift.
• 2:03:36
  SPEAKER_03: I was at the dishwasher the whole time.
• 2:03:38
  SPEAKER_03: Maybe a piece of garlic got down my bra or something like that, and maybe it's nothing.
• 2:03:42
  SPEAKER_03: But then it didn't go away, and it didn't go away.
• 2:03:44
  SPEAKER_03: So I called Celeste and I was like, better do the thing.
• 2:03:48
  SPEAKER_03: And that was the during the Blaine City thing that was it was so much fun.
• 2:03:52
  SPEAKER_03: It was all these things that were like so cool happening, but I was like, oh crap, what's that all about?
• 2:03:57
  SPEAKER_03: Maybe it's nothing.
• 2:03:58
  SPEAKER_03: And then by May, it was while I was we were in in the throes of performance, and I I went and got it, got the reading, and it was the diagnosis was stage three in uh HER2 positive um not inflammatory breast cancer.
• 2:04:18
  SPEAKER_03: That's what we come to find out, but it was a positive.
• 2:04:21
  SPEAKER_03: And I am so grateful to have caught it early.
• 2:04:27
  SPEAKER_03: My mom came up to visit really just for Mother's Day, and I had to tell that's what I told her.
• 2:04:33
  SPEAKER_01: That's when you told her.
• 2:04:34
  SPEAKER_03: And it was, I think it was one of the my my birthday's May 10th, and it's always within a few days or the same day as Mother's Day and my birthday.
• 2:04:43
  SPEAKER_03: So she was just planning to come up anyway, because it was also the first her son, my brother, had just died.
• 2:04:49
  SPEAKER_03: She didn't want to be alone.
• 2:04:50
  SPEAKER_03: She's like, I'm gonna come up to see you for Mother's Day and your birthday, and what a what a shit sandwich.
• 2:04:56
  SPEAKER_03: Then for me to say, Hey, guess what, mom?
• 2:04:58
  SPEAKER_05: Guess what?
• 2:05:00
  SPEAKER_05: Oh, geez.
• 2:05:01
  SPEAKER_03: So, and that's why, like, some people who know a little bit, a little bit of the story from the outside in.
• 2:05:07
  SPEAKER_03: She went all in.
• 2:05:08
  SPEAKER_03: We've like paid a ton of money.
• 2:05:11
  SPEAKER_03: It was a beautiful trailer, Caitlin.
• 2:05:13
  SPEAKER_03: It was a beautiful trailer.
• 2:05:14
  SPEAKER_03: So she bought this awesome RV trailer to come, she came up and stayed for the summer, and then we road tripped to do all the treatments up in Anchorage.
• 2:05:24
  SPEAKER_03: And, you know, it's funny, careful what you wish for.
• 2:05:27
  SPEAKER_03: I had always said for the time that we lived here in Haynes, you know, one of the things that I love about my marriage and about Jeff is that what we were able to what we were able to pull off is living credit card free.
• 2:05:45
  SPEAKER_03: And in this day and age, and again, no shame, blame, guilt for anybody.
• 2:05:49
  SPEAKER_03: We're all like there's eight billion of us ants with prefrontal cortexes trying to figure out how to navigate life.
• 2:05:59
  SPEAKER_03: Um we were able to pull all this off without being without trying to think of the exact, the perfect word, the portable, not in debt.
• 2:06:12
  SPEAKER_03: So there's all sorts of people who are like, oh yeah, we're going here for a vacation, or oh, we're popping down to Juno, or oh, we're doing this, or oh, we're doing that.
• 2:06:20
  SPEAKER_03: Because maybe you're charging it on your credit card and and then you're gonna figure out how to play it.
• 2:06:25
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that was part of part of it all, of like the honesty of what we were trying to pull off with both of us.
• 2:06:34
  SPEAKER_03: Again, I'll say it again, the biggest sacrifice we make living here.
• 2:06:38
  SPEAKER_03: He's from Baltimore, I'm from Philly, we raised that little girl with no extended family.
• 2:06:44
  SPEAKER_02: And I'll tell you, it does make me cry a little bit because in retrospect, I had um postpartum like a mofo.
• 2:06:52
  SPEAKER_02: Like I absolutely, and I I couldn't accept it.
• 2:06:56
  SPEAKER_02: I couldn't, I couldn't know at the time, but looking back, I absolutely parented that sweet little girl with a huge help of postpartum depression, no extended family around.
• 2:07:09
  SPEAKER_02: Like we just we tried to do so much by ourselves, and it also harkens back to you can't thrive on your own here.
• 2:07:21
  SPEAKER_02: You cannot.
• 2:07:22
  SPEAKER_02: The only way you really make it is in connection, right?
• 2:07:26
  SPEAKER_02: And I have another side story, but I have to continue with the front story just about all that connection.
• 2:07:31
  SPEAKER_02: So, so there I was.
• 2:07:33
  SPEAKER_03: I went through, mom came up to be with me, and then I had my auntie.
• 2:07:38
  SPEAKER_03: It was actually really beautiful when I allowed it to be.
• 2:07:42
  SPEAKER_03: And I also at the time, I think there was a part of my a point in my life that if I knew that I would be diagnosed with cancer, I would want to go right to Mexico and do all the juices and do all like, nah, you know, like big blessings for pharma, but also big, big problems, way too much money involved, and way there's that's clear that that there's no conspiracy of that.
• 2:08:07
  SPEAKER_03: There's just too much collusion of power and finance as where medicine is concerned.
• 2:08:12
  SPEAKER_03: But what are you gonna do?
• 2:08:14
  SPEAKER_03: So, but because I was a mom, I'm like, I'm an I'm an unreliable witness for managing my own cancer care, and a part of my experience in Haynes, despite there being levels of community, absolutely, but where the rubber hit the road felt way too much like we're doing too much on it.
• 2:08:39
  SPEAKER_03: We're we're we're like, we're so capable, we're just we're doing it, that what I really needed was a team of people around me to put myself first.
• 2:08:50
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that also going back to attachment styles and safety, and this is very common with not just women, but self-abandonment, to, you know, like don't worry about me, I'm holding this together, don't look at me, I'm we're doing, we're doing that.
• 2:09:07
  SPEAKER_03: And cancer, some forms, I don't know about all, but I know that on under some some perspective, cancer is now being considered an autoimmune disease.
• 2:09:19
  SPEAKER_03: And do you know that 85% of all human beings with autoimmune disorder are women?
• 2:09:26
  SPEAKER_03: And a lot of it is 80% up to 85% of all human beings that have an autoimmune disorder are women.
• 2:09:38
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that speaks hugely to the internalization of stress of I got it, don't worry about me.
• 2:09:46
  SPEAKER_03: No, I got it, I'll handle that, I got it, don't worry about me.
• 2:09:49
  SPEAKER_03: And the next thing you know, your body's attacking itself because you're holding what was never yours to hold to begin with, you know, being the nurturing everybody else except for yourself, right?
• 2:10:02
  SPEAKER_03: And so I think for me, that was a big wake-up call that I think that's what what cancer was for me.
• 2:10:09
  SPEAKER_03: And there's a lot of metaphysical, or even like taking in, taking all of it in, like even in Chinese medicine, you know, like the lungs hold grief.
• 2:10:18
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, I could say my dad died of lung cancer.
• 2:10:21
  SPEAKER_03: Did he smoke cigarettes?
• 2:10:23
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, he did.
• 2:10:24
  SPEAKER_03: Did he walk three miles every day?
• 2:10:26
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, he did.
• 2:10:27
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I mean, he was a really active guy in this and that, also a Vietnam vet.
• 2:10:32
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, brother committed suicide, Irish Catholic, you know, trauma from from his particular upbringing.
• 2:10:40
  SPEAKER_03: So for me, that it was breast cancer felt like uh part of my DNA roots, like this Scottish warrioress going, now, now, are you gonna put yourself first?
• 2:10:57
  SPEAKER_03: Now, are you gonna start looking at what you need?
• 2:11:01
  SPEAKER_03: You know, and so with that opening, it's like, okay, I welcome everybody.
• 2:11:05
  SPEAKER_03: Look at me.
• 2:11:06
  SPEAKER_03: It was like a big Mardi Gras because it was breast cancer.
• 2:11:08
  SPEAKER_03: So, okay.
• 2:11:11
  SPEAKER_03: That was that's kind of silly.
• 2:11:12
  SPEAKER_03: I use I use humor appropriately and inappropriately sometimes, but but I but taking it as the experience of now I get to go to Anchorage, like and I've said for years here, and this is I'm tying this back in.
• 2:11:28
  SPEAKER_03: This will be the longest clip ever, if you share this.
• 2:11:32
  SPEAKER_03: But um, so I've lived in Haynes for 20 years and done very little traveling outside of Haynes, Haynes in the state of Alaska.
• 2:11:41
  SPEAKER_03: Always said, I for or not always, but for a long time, like, I want to go to Anchorage, I want to see more of Alaska, right?
• 2:11:48
  SPEAKER_03: And this very Stephen King sort of way.
• 2:11:50
  SPEAKER_03: It's like you're doing six trips to Alaska in one summer or six trips to Anchorage, right?
• 2:11:56
  SPEAKER_03: And so that was a very cool experience to do the whole road.
• 2:12:00
  SPEAKER_03: Trip up there.
• 2:12:01
  SPEAKER_03: And um, and where I'm at now is clear, but I will say on live TV that uh that there is an area of sus uh a suspicious area, but I also appreciate that once you're in the club that you never wanted to be a part of the cancer, and the more people with cancer I talk to, I have to also, from the view from 30,000 feet, appreciate that really I'm one year into this or a year and a half, and I just really want to be done with it, but I have to accept that I my whole, I'm not, I'm not at all saying that I caused the cancer at all.
• 2:12:42
  SPEAKER_03: Um, however, what I will say is that my soil, the soil, the clay, the dirt of my body became an environment where it could grow.
• 2:12:55
  SPEAKER_03: So with a nod to like epigenetics, like, do you have the the gene code for this or that or that?
• 2:13:02
  SPEAKER_03: That my internalized stress created an environment where something that maybe was already pre-existing there turned on as opposed to just laying dormant.
• 2:13:16
  SPEAKER_03: Like there's some theories that say there's the there's the possibility of cancer in almost everybody's body.
• 2:13:22
  SPEAKER_03: It's already there, and it's a matter of whether it's turned on or not.
• 2:13:25
  SPEAKER_03: You add the right ingredients, and boom, you've got cancer.
• 2:13:28
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but um so so that's where I'm at now, and that's also where hypnotherapy plays in is returning the body to homeostasis.
• 2:13:43
  SPEAKER_03: Is that in a lot of ways, so stress, internalized stress, does crazy things to the body.
• 2:13:52
  SPEAKER_05: Um so is it you're going through cancer and treatments and all that?
• 2:13:58
  SPEAKER_05: Is that when you found out about hypnotherapy?
• 2:14:01
  SPEAKER_05: Is this something you'd been thinking about beforehand?
• 2:14:04
  SPEAKER_03: No, it was not on my field of consciousness at all.
• 2:14:08
  SPEAKER_05: So what was it?
• 2:14:09
  SPEAKER_05: What was the trigger that I will tell you?
• 2:14:11
  SPEAKER_05: Okay, that's what I want to know.
• 2:14:12
  SPEAKER_03: The trigger was a friend of mine.
• 2:14:16
  SPEAKER_03: Um dear friend of mine who lives in Colorado.
• 2:14:25
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know whether I want to say names or not, but uh we'll keep it.
• 2:14:28
  SPEAKER_03: So my friend Pam.
• 2:14:29
  SPEAKER_03: Actually, she's a uh she's a practicing hypnotherapist too, and she is the reason why I got into it and as well as once I heard the story, how it all seemed to just click, because I'm gonna take a short, just a short segue to say that I've always been a pretty active person.
• 2:14:49
  SPEAKER_03: I consider myself a slack elite.
• 2:14:51
  SPEAKER_03: I'm not a mountain eater or a marathon runner, but my through my lifestyle, not sedentary, active enough through the jobs that I take and this and that.
• 2:15:01
  SPEAKER_03: Well, after having gone through all the chemotherapy treatment and radiation, my energy level was tanked.
• 2:15:10
  SPEAKER_03: And then also being a 55-year-old woman, this is a point in life where women tend to start to lose muscle mass if not actively tended.
• 2:15:21
  SPEAKER_03: So I had uh gone through radiation.
• 2:15:24
  SPEAKER_03: I knew I wanted to keep working.
• 2:15:27
  SPEAKER_03: I had a little bit of catering.
• 2:15:28
  SPEAKER_03: That's when I came into the produce section because I'm like, I need a job to do, and actually lifting the boxes, knowing I could just do it for four hours at a time.
• 2:15:37
  SPEAKER_03: And I remember when I first came off of radiation, it was four hours and not four hours and 15 minutes or four hours and a half.
• 2:15:46
  SPEAKER_03: Because if I went over that limit, then I was like couch ridden for the rest of the night.
• 2:15:51
  SPEAKER_03: I couldn't really bounce back.
• 2:15:52
  SPEAKER_03: But I knew if I could do four hours, then I can take a little disco nap and then get up and do dinner and do stuff and whatever.
• 2:15:59
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so but I also knew that this isn't what's my next move?
• 2:16:05
  SPEAKER_03: I'm now a demographic, 55 years old, stay-at-home mom for 10 years of my life.
• 2:16:11
  SPEAKER_03: What's next in my life?
• 2:16:13
  SPEAKER_03: What am I gonna do next, right?
• 2:16:16
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and I ended up hearing from my friend Pam, who is a uh Pilates instructor uh and uh equestrian.
• 2:16:29
  SPEAKER_03: She boards horses, so a very physical person.
• 2:16:31
  SPEAKER_03: She lives in one of my friends from Netherland, Colorado.
• 2:16:35
  SPEAKER_03: And she had been putting off a knee replacement for years and years and years, finally gets her knee replaced and develops a staph infection uh or a staph infection develops from this knee replacement.
• 2:16:49
  SPEAKER_03: So she goes in and her first doctor, and now she would she would have gotten a second opinion anyway, but one of the first doctors she talked to said, You're looking at a couple of surgeries and probably an amputation because it's it's so bad.
• 2:17:02
  SPEAKER_03: So she calls a friend of hers, kind of in freakout mode.
• 2:17:05
  SPEAKER_03: Like, what am I gonna do?
• 2:17:07
  SPEAKER_03: She as well has a 15-year-old daughter, lives in the mountains.
• 2:17:11
  SPEAKER_03: Looking at the concept of losing a limb.
• 2:17:14
  SPEAKER_03: So and so her friend Helen says she calls Helen who is an old college roommate years back, and Helen goes, duh, Pam, and so I'm I'm misquoting here, duh Pam, I can help you with this.
• 2:17:29
  SPEAKER_03: Helen's been in hypnotherapy for 20 years.
• 2:17:34
  SPEAKER_03: She herself manages um rheumatoid arthritis through active practice of self-hypnosis, which I mean to say she's had a RA diagnosis.
• 2:17:46
  SPEAKER_03: And then when, in her words, when I forget, you know, when I get too cool for school and forget my own practice, I'll get a little node on my finger.
• 2:17:54
  SPEAKER_03: I'll start cramping up or I'll start feeling that old feeling, and then I remember to do my self-hypnosis practice, talk to the body, talk to the, I'll tell you more about that.
• 2:18:03
  SPEAKER_03: Anyway, so Helen is like, look, you're my pro bono.
• 2:18:08
  SPEAKER_03: Right now we're doing this three times a week for three weeks.
• 2:18:11
  SPEAKER_03: This is what we're doing.
• 2:18:12
  SPEAKER_03: We're we are gonna focus on healing this staph infection without giving any actual trade secrets away through, and and as a hypnotherapist, what we do is we teach self-hypnosis.
• 2:18:27
  SPEAKER_03: So you come to a hypnotherapist look to be guided through something, and then you, and then the idea is that you you're doing it too.
• 2:18:35
  SPEAKER_03: You can't just come into the office, get the thing, you know, have the visualization, and then go go be the same thing that you were do the same thing you were doing.
• 2:18:45
  SPEAKER_03: Like you have to practice it yourself.
• 2:18:48
  SPEAKER_03: Pam now is the patient her doctors will talk about for the next 20 years.
• 2:18:54
  SPEAKER_03: She dissolved her staph infection.
• 2:18:57
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know that there was maybe a little bit of a conjunction.
• 2:19:01
  SPEAKER_03: I'm not gonna say it was absolutely drug-free, but it was she sidestepped surgery and amputation by using hypnotherapy.
• 2:19:15
  SPEAKER_03: And there is application for hypnotherapy with autoimmune disorder.
• 2:19:20
  SPEAKER_03: There are oncology patients who are in it's it's a one-two punch.
• 2:19:24
  SPEAKER_03: It can be a one, it's not necessarily a replacement, uh, but for visualization, uh, if like even pre-op or post-op, and the concept is the concept with hypnotherapy and self-hypnosis is 95% of our life is happens in the subconscious.
• 2:19:52
  SPEAKER_03: Like you wake up in the morning, there is so much information coming in, your conscious brain can really only process about 5% of everything that's coming in, right?
• 2:20:03
  SPEAKER_03: Um in hypnotherapy, we guide you to a safe, peaceful, relaxed place in order to talk to the subconscious mind, get the critical mind out of the way.
• 2:20:17
  SPEAKER_03: I'm um going a little bit out of order.
• 2:20:20
  SPEAKER_03: So the idea being is that we're all walking around with uh the programs that seem to work for us, right?
• 2:20:29
  SPEAKER_03: So imagine that kid uh who has a gullible mind, there is no such thing as a child's mind that has that that can be a critical thinker.
• 2:20:41
  SPEAKER_03: You teach critical thinking.
• 2:20:43
  SPEAKER_03: Is it true?
• 2:20:44
  SPEAKER_03: Is it not true?
• 2:20:45
  SPEAKER_03: Do I have to think about it a little more?
• 2:20:48
  SPEAKER_03: But about age infant three infancy through at least age seven and maybe arguably beyond your formative years, your caregivers give you information and it is received with a gullible mind, you know?
• 2:21:03
  SPEAKER_03: Like uh Uncle Bob says you can't trust a redhead.
• 2:21:07
  SPEAKER_03: You know, at some point you hear that enough time, or I'm just throwing something random out there, or you know, like, or you whatever.
• 2:21:16
  SPEAKER_03: I'm just gonna run with it.
• 2:21:17
  SPEAKER_05: And you get a lot of notes from redheads.
• 2:21:19
  SPEAKER_03: Redheads.
• 2:21:20
  SPEAKER_03: I got never or I could stick with something else, but I'm just gonna I'm just gonna roll with it, right?
• 2:21:25
  SPEAKER_03: You can't never ever trust a redhead.
• 2:21:28
  SPEAKER_03: You hear that enough times, and then um let's say that the and you don't even remember hearing it, right?
• 2:21:35
  SPEAKER_03: You don't because it's in it's it was when you're a kid, gullible mind.
• 2:21:39
  SPEAKER_03: Well, let's say now you're uh you have a business partnership and your partner is a redhead, and for some things just keep going wrong, and you can't figure out why things keep going wrong, because somewhere in your subconscious mind, it is a fact that you just can't ever trust a redhead.
• 2:22:01
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 2:22:01
  SPEAKER_03: Is that and this is something so so silly and lighthearted because it there's there's much deeper implications, obviously.
• 2:22:08
  SPEAKER_03: So the concept with hypnotherapy is that you help a person identify what program is being run, you deprogramming, you deprogram the maladaptive stuff, and then you reprogram more positive stuff, right?
• 2:22:27
  SPEAKER_03: So you might uncover the idea is you know, using, so it's not talk therapy because and and I I've been in therapy.
• 2:22:35
  SPEAKER_03: Therapy can be very useful and wonderful, but it's the adult self talking, right?
• 2:22:40
  SPEAKER_03: There's other modalities like taught like uh parts work, EMDR is another um modality that's very effective, speaking to the subconscious and accessing part of your hard drive that you're not even aware, but that is in fact running the show with true isn't.
• 2:22:59
  SPEAKER_03: And there are certain rules of the mind that can be applied, much like laws of physics that we understand.
• 2:23:06
  SPEAKER_03: You don't have to understand why gravity works, but it does, right?
• 2:23:10
  SPEAKER_03: There are through the process of the field of psychology, some neuroscience, um, there have been identified eight rules of the mind, one of which is opposing ideas cannot exist at the same time, right?
• 2:23:27
  SPEAKER_03: So if you don't know, until you put something on the table of consciousness, you don't know that that is actually an opposing idea in your head, right?
• 2:23:36
  SPEAKER_03: So if you've decided that redheads cannot ever be trusted, and then here you are trying to do business with a redhead and you can't figure out why nothing feels right, there's every reason why I should be trusted and I don't get it.
• 2:23:48
  SPEAKER_03: Well, it might come up in a hypnotherapy session that, oh yeah, you can't, yeah, my Uncle Bob said, never can't trust a redhead, you know, and you might remember something like that.
• 2:23:57
  SPEAKER_03: And again, this is um you could do a deeper talk about this, but but through hypnotherapy, we help people return to the you you've always been and weed out what was, oh, that wasn't really even true, anyway.
• 2:24:12
  SPEAKER_03: So a first meeting would be like an interview.
• 2:24:15
  SPEAKER_03: You ask me questions, I ask you questions to use your verbiage.
• 2:24:19
  SPEAKER_03: It's not it's not the stage hypnosis, I'm gonna make you cluck like a chicken now.
• 2:24:24
  SPEAKER_03: It's what do you want?
• 2:24:25
  SPEAKER_03: What do you want?
• 2:24:26
  SPEAKER_03: I want to be less of a pushover.
• 2:24:28
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, well, where'd you learn how to be a pushover?
• 2:24:30
  SPEAKER_03: And you hear just a little bit about some of the formative stuff, and then using the verbiage that what somebody wants, then I can help somebody come into a very peaceful, relaxed state where your guard is down, the critical mind is down, and then using the words that were given to me.
• 2:24:48
  SPEAKER_03: I'm not planting anything that you didn't say you you wanted, and then it's lucid dreaming, it's controlled daydreaming.
• 2:24:56
  SPEAKER_03: Do you ever have that feeling when you wake up early in the morning, you're laying in bed, and you just you that first moment you realize you're awake, but you're not really awake?
• 2:25:05
  SPEAKER_03: And it's that really kind of dreamy kind of place.
• 2:25:08
  SPEAKER_03: That's that's kind of where we're at.
• 2:25:11
  SPEAKER_03: And you can, if you say this today's gonna be a really great day.
• 2:25:15
  SPEAKER_03: Do you ever do you have you ever had some of those days where you're like there's a little something going on in the in the morning that's cool and everything works out great?
• 2:25:22
  SPEAKER_03: Similarly, you wake up and stuff starts going wrong.
• 2:25:26
  SPEAKER_03: Guess what?
• 2:25:27
  SPEAKER_03: Expect rule of the mind number two, expectations tend to be realized.
• 2:25:31
  SPEAKER_03: If you're convinced that today is just a no-good rotten day, how could it really be anything but that?
• 2:25:37
  SPEAKER_03: If that's we are we are our brains are pattern-seeking machines.
• 2:25:44
  SPEAKER_03: And so when you tell yourself what you think you're gonna, it's just like, oh, that's that's crappy.
• 2:25:49
  SPEAKER_03: Crappy, crappy, crappy, crappy.
• 2:25:51
  SPEAKER_03: That's crappy too.
• 2:25:51
  SPEAKER_03: Hey, that's crappy.
• 2:25:52
  SPEAKER_03: That's crappy also, also untrustworthy, also rude.
• 2:25:56
  SPEAKER_03: But when you're when you're feeding yourself calm, you know, I am yeah, worthy of love simply because I exist.
• 2:26:07
  SPEAKER_03: I am, you know, all these, you know, all these wonderful things, then that's what you begin to notice more and more.
• 2:26:14
  SPEAKER_03: And so that sounds a little will, and maybe I should be a little more specific as I'm breaking out into the hypnotherapy thing, you want more?
• 2:26:21
  SPEAKER_03: Come talk to me.
• 2:26:23
  SPEAKER_05: And see, the one of the things that you mentioned on that is I always had the impression of it, and and your conversation made it clear to me why this is, but I always had the impression this is more like you're dealing with trauma and things, and it is.
• 2:26:37
  SPEAKER_05: I didn't I didn't think this dealt into the physical health, but I can totally see how they're connected.
• 2:26:43
  SPEAKER_05: That is there, it's the mind-body there has to be a connection there.
• 2:26:47
  SPEAKER_03: It's amazing, and this is again where where where the woo-woo becomes woo, it's science, or like there's so much now that we're understanding in quantum physics that is that that jives with Eastern mysticism.
• 2:27:02
  SPEAKER_03: There's some aspects of hypnotherapy that is that is adjacent to shamanic journey work, but it is also very biomechanical.
• 2:27:12
  SPEAKER_03: It's like here, like let's see what this baby can do.
• 2:27:15
  SPEAKER_03: Here, according to neuroscience, this controls that, this organ controls that.
• 2:27:19
  SPEAKER_03: We're speaking right to the pituitary gland now, glands you can do when in a in a in hypnotic state, it is possible to do cell command.
• 2:27:35
  SPEAKER_03: I speak directly to your cells.
• 2:27:38
  SPEAKER_03: There are applications for pain relief.
• 2:27:41
  SPEAKER_03: There are people who go to the dentist and have procedures done without Novocaine or anything like that because they are in control of their body's pain receptors.
• 2:27:52
  SPEAKER_03: I'm not there yet, but that but but what you know, even or have you ever seen some of the in um in I want to say India, I might get the country wrong, but there are these incredible feats of like body piercing and they hold weights.
• 2:28:07
  SPEAKER_03: That is in a trance state.
• 2:28:11
  SPEAKER_03: So the the hypnotic state is a very natural state of being, right?
• 2:28:16
  SPEAKER_03: It's not, it's it's it's something that that is common for humans.
• 2:28:21
  SPEAKER_03: It's just a it's a part of our waking state, whether you're in down in deep REM sleep or hyper-vigilant beta state.
• 2:28:28
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I might get them wrong.
• 2:28:29
  SPEAKER_03: I do that.
• 2:28:30
  SPEAKER_03: I'm it's been a long day.
• 2:28:31
  SPEAKER_03: I word salad a little bit.
• 2:28:33
  SPEAKER_03: Again, relationships.
• 2:28:34
  SPEAKER_03: Because you deal with salad all day.
• 2:28:36
  SPEAKER_03: That's why the word salad comes out.
• 2:28:38
  SPEAKER_03: But we go through different um different brain wave states, and at certain brainwave states, we are more suggestible, and it is possible in the mind-body connection to redirect our own cells.
• 2:28:56
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, this is that we hear about this all the time.
• 2:29:00
  SPEAKER_03: Actually, I was just talking.
• 2:29:02
  SPEAKER_03: There was a movie The Secret.
• 2:29:04
  SPEAKER_03: Did you ever see that one?
• 2:29:05
  SPEAKER_03: Highly recommend.
• 2:29:06
  SPEAKER_03: Some people won't watch it because it's like, oh, that sounds too woo-woo.
• 2:29:10
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I challenge you to watch something because it is right where quantum, the quantum science, the quantum field, it's called the secret, um, blends with um it's not even, it's not even new age.
• 2:29:25
  SPEAKER_03: I throw that out.
• 2:29:26
  SPEAKER_03: It's it's it's the quantum, it's the cosmic soup, where uh in affirmations, how we are the observer can change what is observed, right?
• 2:29:40
  SPEAKER_03: Are you familiar with the uh the double blind or the uh the double slit?
• 2:29:44
  SPEAKER_03: I'm I'm gonna start, I I need to I need to reel myself in because I'm going manic with all of my word thoughts.
• 2:29:51
  SPEAKER_03: But the specific example, Doug, is uh this airplane pilot.
• 2:29:58
  SPEAKER_03: He's just flying his own plane, terrible plane crash.
• 2:30:02
  SPEAKER_03: He goes down, he's hospitalized.
• 2:30:05
  SPEAKER_03: Nearly every bone in his body is broken.
• 2:30:09
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, he's hooked up to a respirator or ventilator, respirator.
• 2:30:12
  SPEAKER_03: And he even hears the doctor say, that's this guy's probably not ever gonna walk again.
• 2:30:17
  SPEAKER_03: And and everybody is different, but this fella had enough strength of mind where he and as he's telling the story, he's like, Well, that's baloney.
• 2:30:27
  SPEAKER_03: I'm gonna walk out of here by Christmas.
• 2:30:28
  SPEAKER_03: And he's like, I couldn't control anything.
• 2:30:30
  SPEAKER_03: The only thing I could start to control in that state was my lung.
• 2:30:34
  SPEAKER_03: I'm gonna like I'm gonna start to focus on my lungs.
• 2:30:36
  SPEAKER_03: I'm first first thing I'm gonna do is get off this blessed machine, right?
• 2:30:42
  SPEAKER_03: And so he's like, I focused all of my I couldn't do anything else.
• 2:30:46
  SPEAKER_03: So I focused everything I had on just lungs breathing in and out, and that's it.
• 2:30:52
  SPEAKER_03: Just return to breath.
• 2:30:54
  SPEAKER_03: That's it.
• 2:30:54
  SPEAKER_03: Nothing else.
• 2:30:55
  SPEAKER_03: I wasn't worried about my toes, wasn't worried about my hands, just focusing on my lungs.
• 2:30:59
  SPEAKER_03: Next thing I know, before too long, off the ventilator, right?
• 2:31:03
  SPEAKER_03: And then he's like, I just started going through my body just like that, just in this, like breathe and relax, and it really is.
• 2:31:10
  SPEAKER_03: So much of our problems in life are like, what's going on over there?
• 2:31:15
  SPEAKER_03: I gotta fix that.
• 2:31:18
  SPEAKER_03: And the antidote is well, just sit a minute and get centered.
• 2:31:24
  SPEAKER_03: Like even in in in rescue training, they say you don't run to an emergency, you know, or even I had a situation where my my daughter had a little she had a little upset uh a couple weeks ago, ended up in an ambulance ride at midnight, she fell off a rope swing, but I got the call at 11:45 at night, and a part of me wanted to just hang up the phone and race to the clinic.
• 2:31:50
  SPEAKER_03: She's fine.
• 2:31:52
  SPEAKER_03: But I also remember through my formative through Glacier Point, Wolfer Training, all of this, all ties into one another.
• 2:31:59
  SPEAKER_03: You don't race to an emergency because what's gonna happen if all your you're if you're not all set?
• 2:32:06
  SPEAKER_03: You know, somebody somebody needs your help, but if you left half your kit behind, how are you gonna be helpful?
• 2:32:12
  SPEAKER_03: So the other real the other tighter analogy is one of my favorites.
• 2:32:18
  SPEAKER_03: You're walking, Doug, you're walking through the store and you got a cup of water in your hands, and somebody bumps into your elbow, and the water spilled out.
• 2:32:29
  SPEAKER_03: Why did the water spill out?
• 2:32:34
  SPEAKER_03: Because there was I won't leave you high chilling.
• 2:32:36
  SPEAKER_03: Because there's water in the cup.
• 2:32:37
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 2:32:38
  SPEAKER_03: So the analogy is you wake up in the morning, your the dog pooped in the house, your car didn't start right, you're pissed, you're angry, and you're just you don't even stand you're now you're late for work, and now uh you're driving down the road and somebody cuts you off, and what do you do?
• 2:32:55
  SPEAKER_03: You lay on the horn, you flip on the bird.
• 2:32:58
  SPEAKER_03: Why did you do that?
• 2:32:59
  SPEAKER_03: Because you were so angry already at first, right?
• 2:33:04
  SPEAKER_03: And also in hypnotherapy, as well as other, many other mindfulness practices, is just practicing the pause.
• 2:33:11
  SPEAKER_03: Why did you freak out on somebody?
• 2:33:13
  SPEAKER_03: Because freak out was in you.
• 2:33:15
  SPEAKER_03: Why were why were you angry?
• 2:33:16
  SPEAKER_03: Why did you anger all over someone?
• 2:33:19
  SPEAKER_03: Because anger was already in you, right?
• 2:33:22
  SPEAKER_03: But but then you find when you take well, I find, when I I'll just speak in the first person, I find something so simple as at best, at worst, last thing, at some point in the evening, at some point in the morning, best case, three times a day, once in the middle of the day, to just especially when the last it's the last thing I want to do is just sit and breathe.
• 2:33:52
  SPEAKER_03: And just visualize myself head to toe, connected to the ground, connected to the sky, and just uh breathe.
• 2:34:00
  SPEAKER_03: Breathe and experience relaxation.
• 2:34:04
  SPEAKER_03: And then, if nothing else, the next thing I do is not going to be affected by that thing that went wrong 20 minutes ago.
• 2:34:13
  SPEAKER_03: Because most of us just like are like pinballs going from thing to thing.
• 2:34:18
  SPEAKER_03: And then all of a sudden you're growing this anger or resentment inside of you.
• 2:34:24
  SPEAKER_03: And I call it, and then somebody boops you, like boop, and bah.
• 2:34:29
  SPEAKER_03: Because because you had it already inside of you, already.
• 2:34:33
  SPEAKER_03: But when you take that time to just settle, settle your cup.
• 2:34:40
  SPEAKER_05: Yoga was huge for me in that way.
• 2:34:41
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so that's the thing.
• 2:34:42
  SPEAKER_05: Just the mindfulness, just letting the fla thoughts flow through and um you know, just concentrating and just trying to be at ease.
• 2:34:50
  SPEAKER_05: That was very helpful to me.
• 2:34:52
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 2:34:53
  SPEAKER_05: Controlling anger and temper and stuff because it was just letting that stuff that like you're saying, those smaller things, they just kind of build up and that little boop and ah but uh so it's um you'd mentioned that you wanted me to come do a practice with you, but I have I have a hard time with the with the hypno part of this.
• 2:35:17
  SPEAKER_05: But you're suggesting this isn't you're not are is a person to get a little bit more than a little bit.
• 2:35:22
  SPEAKER_03: A person is control, in control at all times, and that's part of the whole the pre-hypno or or or the lead-in.
• 2:35:30
  SPEAKER_03: The concept is um to allow the body to feel to allow the self to feel completely safe, at ease, and relaxed.
• 2:35:42
  SPEAKER_03: And what I will say at any appointment is if at any time you feel uncomfortable, you're in charge.
• 2:35:49
  SPEAKER_03: You can say, Stop! I don't want to do this anymore.
• 2:35:51
  SPEAKER_03: I don't like it.
• 2:35:52
  SPEAKER_03: I don't want to do it.
• 2:35:53
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, fine.
• 2:35:54
  SPEAKER_03: But it and some people fall asleep, which is fine.
• 2:35:58
  SPEAKER_03: Some people have to get up and go to the bathroom.
• 2:36:00
  SPEAKER_03: I gotta go pee.
• 2:36:01
  SPEAKER_03: I'm like, you don't have to hold it.
• 2:36:02
  SPEAKER_03: Just get up and go use the restroom, come back, and we'll breathe and session.
• 2:36:09
  SPEAKER_03: An hour and a half.
• 2:36:10
  SPEAKER_01: Hour and a half.
• 2:36:11
  SPEAKER_03: And it's it's it is pretty cool.
• 2:36:15
  SPEAKER_05: And how uh how do people get in contact with you?
• 2:36:18
  SPEAKER_03: Uh I'm available on Facebook and I'm just really getting my um brick and mortar.
• 2:36:26
  SPEAKER_03: You know, so I have I've I've worked up a logo, but I haven't I don't have any PR out yet.
• 2:36:31
  SPEAKER_05: So uh if you're seeing this on Facebook, you can find me on Facebook Messenger, or uh I guess I shouldn't put my or if they see you see me around town if they see you stock and produce at older.
• 2:36:44
  SPEAKER_05: That's right, they could book an appointment with you.
• 2:36:46
  SPEAKER_03: That's right.
• 2:36:47
  unknown: Yeah.
• 2:36:48
  SPEAKER_03: Welcome home hypnotherapy.
• 2:36:50
  SPEAKER_03: Look for my stuff out.
• 2:36:51
  SPEAKER_03: It's I don't have a website yet.
• 2:36:53
  SPEAKER_05: Oh, you're you're working on one?
• 2:36:55
  SPEAKER_03: I'm working on all that.
• 2:36:56
  SPEAKER_05: All right.
• 2:36:57
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 2:36:57
  SPEAKER_05: So what what else should somebody know about hypnotherapy?
• 2:37:00
  SPEAKER_03: Um Boland School of Hypnotherapy.
• 2:37:02
  SPEAKER_03: Helen Boland was my uh my teacher.
• 2:37:05
  SPEAKER_03: I'm she is the best, I've I believe is the best in the field.
• 2:37:08
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, and so she offers schooling, and there is a boland hypnotherapy.com, and I would be findable on uh as an affiliate through there as well.
• 2:37:19
  SPEAKER_05: Um what is it would you think that anybody can come to this?
• 2:37:27
  SPEAKER_05: Are there certain things you want to?
• 2:37:30
  SPEAKER_05: Is there like a specialty for you on what kind of things you want to treat?
• 2:37:35
  SPEAKER_05: Is that a thing in hypnotherapy?
• 2:37:37
  SPEAKER_03: Or is this just a there is I'm just such I'm I'm a baby at it.
• 2:37:41
  SPEAKER_03: I'm new, and part of me is figuring out what does the community need is a lot of uh stress, stress and anxiety.
• 2:37:49
  SPEAKER_03: Uh I have met with a handful of people here which have been have been awesome, and a lot of it is um, I think I'm gonna just call out, we are in a post-traumatic post-COVID trauma, uh, culturally and collectively relearning how to be out in the wild with each other.
• 2:38:15
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, and so that actually has been um has come up with people feeling like they are mischaracterized by other people or taking on uh taking on um other people's stuff so we can work, we work on uh we can work on boundaries, but there's really the applications, and I feel like I want to um I feel I did bring my binder because I knew we were gonna get to this aspect, and today was a really big long day.
• 2:38:46
  SPEAKER_05: Uh, but I have somebody kept making you work all day.
• 2:38:49
  SPEAKER_05: I know he was a jerk.
• 2:38:51
  SPEAKER_03: Uh the applications, we can we can do a nice cut on this.
• 2:38:55
  SPEAKER_03: And did I grab the right notebook?
• 2:38:57
  SPEAKER_03: But the applications are many for uh for hypnotherapy, and maybe you can oh here we go.
• 2:39:04
  SPEAKER_03: Modern hypnotherapy, okay.
• 2:39:06
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm reading because I'm amazing and I don't have to know everything.
• 2:39:10
  SPEAKER_03: Applications of clinical hypnotherapy, uh, pain relief, internal medicine, surgery, anesthesia, anesthesiology, obstetrics, birth hypnosis, really win-win business hypnosis, sales and motivation, public speaking, goal setting uh for kids, test taking.
• 2:39:29
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, really, it's building inner allies.
• 2:39:35
  SPEAKER_03: You know, so a lot of people come with feeling like I'm all alone or I can't trust this person.
• 2:39:41
  SPEAKER_03: And it's so it's it's rebuilding a helping a person rebuild from the inside out.
• 2:39:47
  SPEAKER_03: Number one, one of the things people say all the time is I have never felt so relaxed in my life, really.
• 2:39:55
  SPEAKER_03: And that's just in a a guided, a guided visualization to a peaceful place.
• 2:40:00
  SPEAKER_03: If nothing else, that's something you can do.
• 2:40:02
  SPEAKER_03: You want to you just want to feel better in an hour and a half than you have felt all day or for the past week, I can do that.
• 2:40:09
  SPEAKER_03: Or we can work up on a goal.
• 2:40:10
  SPEAKER_03: You want to quit smoking?
• 2:40:12
  SPEAKER_03: You wanna there are there are some applications that are like, okay, it is a uh hypnotherapy is a license in and of its own.
• 2:40:22
  SPEAKER_03: Uh there is a bar, uh, the American Council of Hypnotist Examiners, there's a there's a field, a collective that sets its standards.
• 2:40:33
  SPEAKER_03: But unlike counseling or massage therapy, there's no state licensing for it because effectively it's a do-no-harm practice.
• 2:40:42
  SPEAKER_03: So if somebody came to me that was a real mess, I would refer them to counseling or right to search or to, you know, to to a shelter or, you know, like I wouldn't, we're not, I'm not there are there are better services for that.
• 2:41:00
  SPEAKER_03: This is a do-no harm guided visualization.
• 2:41:02
  SPEAKER_03: It does have very real goals, but uh it's like I would I can't give you stitches.
• 2:41:07
  SPEAKER_03: I can't, if you've got something really, some real serious psychoses going on, that's not that's not my field, you know.
• 2:41:14
  SPEAKER_03: I would refer I would refer that out.
• 2:41:16
  SPEAKER_03: Uh weight control, artistic expression.
• 2:41:19
  SPEAKER_03: We're really, there's another one that I really love.
• 2:41:22
  SPEAKER_03: Before you interrupt me one more time, which I love that you do, and I love all your questions, because I'll can I read you this synopsis?
• 2:41:31
  SPEAKER_03: This is one and I I tagged it because it's one of my favorite synopsis.
• 2:41:36
  SPEAKER_03: We teach clients healthy attachment patterns through our presence.
• 2:41:44
  SPEAKER_03: We teach the release of the emotions of any pain, shame, or guilt incurred during the innocent mind of childhood.
• 2:41:58
  SPEAKER_03: We teach the ability to release unwanted neurobiological programs associated with trauma, and we guide the release of trauma held in the body.
• 2:42:11
  SPEAKER_03: Like you gotta feel it, you gotta put it on the table of consciousness to know what it is, to then release it.
• 2:42:17
  SPEAKER_03: And a lot of people, some people will come in thinking it's this issue, and then discover, oh wow, I didn't I didn't even realize it was that the whole time, you know?
• 2:42:28
  SPEAKER_03: And it's only it's only what you want.
• 2:42:31
  SPEAKER_03: The the mind, the tenant is the mind knows where it needs to go to heal.
• 2:42:38
  SPEAKER_03: And the last analogy I'll give you is like a fishing guide.
• 2:42:41
  SPEAKER_03: You come in and tell me I want to catch halibut.
• 2:42:44
  SPEAKER_03: All right, I'll load you up on my boat.
• 2:42:47
  SPEAKER_03: That's a scook of boat, it's safe, and I'm gonna take you out to the spot.
• 2:42:53
  SPEAKER_03: Here's the pole.
• 2:42:54
  SPEAKER_03: You drop the line.
• 2:42:57
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 2:42:57
  SPEAKER_03: That's what guided, that's what hypnotherapy is.
• 2:43:00
  SPEAKER_03: You're doing the work.
• 2:43:01
  SPEAKER_03: I'm just kind of helping you get there, being a guardrail a little bit.
• 2:43:07
  SPEAKER_05: So it's pretty cool.
• 2:43:08
  SPEAKER_05: How helpful has this been for you?
• 2:43:10
  SPEAKER_03: Profoundly.
• 2:43:12
  SPEAKER_03: I I believe.
• 2:43:14
  SPEAKER_05: Is that is that why is that why you went into it?
• 2:43:16
  SPEAKER_05: Or during the learning about the learning about this, has that been part of the helpful part of this?
• 2:43:25
  SPEAKER_03: I can talk about that coat over there if you want.
• 2:43:28
  SPEAKER_03: Um so when so circling back, Pam is a dear and trusted friend of mine.
• 2:43:38
  SPEAKER_03: She told me about her experience with hypnotherapy, and she said, Helen is teaching a class in October, and I'm gonna take it.
• 2:43:50
  SPEAKER_03: And I don't even think she said, Do you want to take it too?
• 2:43:53
  SPEAKER_03: That was just one of those moments of uh shoot first, shoot first, then aim.
• 2:43:59
  SPEAKER_03: And I was like, I'm in.
• 2:44:00
  SPEAKER_03: Because really, and in life, I've been a manual labor effectively in the restaurant industry, guide work, field work, that kind of stuff.
• 2:44:08
  SPEAKER_03: And as I age gracefully, I would I want to be able to glean an income while I'm sitting down.
• 2:44:17
  SPEAKER_03: And it is, and it, and it, I mean, there's there's there's behind there's work, there's work to it.
• 2:44:23
  SPEAKER_03: It is a service being performed.
• 2:44:25
  SPEAKER_03: I went through 500 plus hours of training.
• 2:44:28
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, it's a school.
• 2:44:29
  SPEAKER_03: I went to school, I paid money for it, a lot of training, a lot of continuing education.
• 2:44:34
  SPEAKER_03: And much like, you know, being a wilderness guide, being a good guide, make it is you when you can make it look easy, it's like, oh, anyone can do it.
• 2:44:44
  SPEAKER_03: But actually, there's a lot going on, a lot of run and change.
• 2:44:47
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, this is what, oh, oh, this is what we're doing.
• 2:44:49
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, this is what we need.
• 2:44:50
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, we're okay.
• 2:44:51
  SPEAKER_03: You know, but to do it in a seamless enough way, always maintaining the safety, dignity, confidence, competence of you know, everybody in the room.
• 2:45:00
  SPEAKER_05: So you hadn't been a you hadn't been a client before you went and got the training.
• 2:45:05
  SPEAKER_03: No.
• 2:45:05
  SPEAKER_03: I hadn't.
• 2:45:06
  SPEAKER_03: I took it on my friend's words.
• 2:45:08
  SPEAKER_05: Just on the case, but hearing her testimony.
• 2:45:11
  SPEAKER_05: Her testimony, you're like, I want I want to bring this to other people.
• 2:45:14
  SPEAKER_03: No, and because I I am a believer.
• 2:45:15
  SPEAKER_03: Like this, and I think that culturally it is the type of healing that we as uh beyond a nation, but as a people need in this, in where we find ourselves in the world.
• 2:45:32
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and that's kind of where it was uh the inspiration for for my the name of my practice being welcome home, like welcome home to the you you've always been, and that's all you know the concept of a person can't self-actualize until they feel safe, like until your lower me needs are met.
• 2:45:56
  SPEAKER_03: So in your whole internal house, I mean you could be sitting in a million-dollar house, but if your internal realm is running scarcity because of some stuff that you've never dealt with, you will never be at ease.
• 2:46:13
  SPEAKER_03: You know what I'm saying?
• 2:46:15
  SPEAKER_03: And or then maybe that's where there's some degree, or like they say, like it doesn't matter how much money you have, you could find you could meet a poor person that is completely at ease with their place in life and healthy and all of that, and then you meet somebody with a million dollars that is just like a mess.
• 2:46:37
  SPEAKER_03: And you can you can do the opposite too, you know.
• 2:46:40
  SPEAKER_03: Um it can be cool to have money.
• 2:46:44
  SPEAKER_03: Not all rich people are bad.
• 2:46:46
  SPEAKER_03: You know, well, there there's the Epstein class and the billionaire class, which is another thing that I'm talking about.
• 2:46:51
  SPEAKER_03: Like, money isn't bad, it's just a tool.
• 2:46:54
  SPEAKER_03: Our brain is this incredible tool that it's like as a human, it's like we're like toddlers running around with iPhones.
• 2:47:06
  SPEAKER_03: It's like once you learn about how it really works, then life takes on this whole other um level.
• 2:47:17
  SPEAKER_03: And so that's kind of where the hypnotherapy is like, let's see what this baby can do.
• 2:47:23
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, yeah.
• 2:47:24
  SPEAKER_03: Absolutely.
• 2:47:26
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 2:47:27
  SPEAKER_05: And I and just just talking about this, it I I I can tell it glimmers.
• 2:47:32
  SPEAKER_05: I get the glimpse, well, no, I and I get the feeling that as you've gone through the training, as you've worked on this, yeah, I I'd asked you that and you confirmed it, but this has helped you deal with past trauma from your childhood and getting a better understanding of who Susie is and who Susie wants to be.
• 2:47:48
  SPEAKER_05: You're yeah, you're probably more present not only for yourself, but for your daughter, for the people around you.
• 2:47:54
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 2:47:55
  SPEAKER_04: And the people in the neighborhood.
• 2:47:57
  SPEAKER_05: It's a pretty good gift to give your daughter at this stage, too, to see her mom going forward and learning something new that can have those kind of benefits.
• 2:48:06
  SPEAKER_05: Do you think she appreciates that?
• 2:48:08
  SPEAKER_03: I hope so.
• 2:48:09
  SPEAKER_03: She will.
• 2:48:11
  SPEAKER_03: And that really is.
• 2:48:15
  SPEAKER_03: I I feel like this has come at a great time in her teenage years.
• 2:48:23
  SPEAKER_03: I can remember at age 20 or so apologizing to my mom for ages 13 to 18.
• 2:48:35
  SPEAKER_05: And I think all of us should be apologizing to our parents for those.
• 2:48:39
  SPEAKER_03: What it has I I believe that it has helped me be a better mom as to navigate for her navigating her teenage years.
• 2:48:54
  SPEAKER_03: Um and that's an understanding that that's what a breaking generational cycles looks like for my family is really appreciating really being able to be, here's the it's is to be regulated.
• 2:49:18
  SPEAKER_03: To be regulated, to be emotionally regulated myself so that when she's dysregulated, it doesn't that I'm not meeting that dysregulation.
• 2:49:31
  SPEAKER_03: Because that that's the norm.
• 2:49:32
  SPEAKER_05: There's a safe spot there.
• 2:49:33
  SPEAKER_03: There's a yeah, and just and yep, and appreciating reading her, knowing that, oh, you know, you're not ignoring me.
• 2:49:43
  SPEAKER_03: You just got back from a long day of school or work, and you, as much as I feel like I need to, I need to respect the fact that you need to just settle your nervous system.
• 2:49:55
  SPEAKER_03: If you want to just go be in your room for an hour, that's fine.
• 2:49:59
  SPEAKER_03: But then also I'm like, okay, it's been time's up.
• 2:50:03
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, but you know, but also appreciating not um being able to unpack how how dysregulated my mom was trying to parent me.
• 2:50:17
  SPEAKER_03: And then so then it was just like so the gift I feel like this is effectively me giving my daughter is being a more stable human, and I have nothing but um compliments for my mom is amazing what she's accomplished in her life, and we can, and she has been through therapy too.
• 2:50:43
  SPEAKER_03: Like we can talk about, and we can, you know, we can talk about it and appreciate that you, you, Jane, the Jane, the mom that I'm talking to now, is not the person that was surviving when I was younger.
• 2:50:57
  SPEAKER_03: You know, we can talk about it and put it in in it in that compartment and say, when you did this, I felt that, and I love you so much, you know.
• 2:51:05
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and I think that uh that is huge.
• 2:51:10
  SPEAKER_03: Um what I and I also appreciate, I know this is an interview.
• 2:51:15
  SPEAKER_03: It's a conversation.
• 2:51:16
  SPEAKER_03: It's no I realize that I'm talking a lot, and I really do.
• 2:51:20
  SPEAKER_03: One of the things that I would like to say is I really appreciate your questioning that the questions that you have, and you that's leading pacing, you know.
• 2:51:29
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, stop and let's ask another question.
• 2:51:32
  SPEAKER_03: Back to you, Doug.
• 2:51:34
  SPEAKER_05: What have we missed?
• 2:51:36
  SPEAKER_05: Uh well, like I know we could go from I I know we could go just just some of the things I know about you, we could go for a couple more hours, but what is is there anything we've missed that you think would help?
• 2:51:47
  SPEAKER_05: Because I I think it's really cool that you're going on this new this new phase.
• 2:51:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 2:51:52
  SPEAKER_05: I I met you when you first came to Hanes.
• 2:51:55
  SPEAKER_05: You're out of GP, coming into the sports shop, and everybody talks about the strawberries over there, the whole deal, and going through that, and then coming to work for us after that.
• 2:52:05
  SPEAKER_05: Um, now you're back working with us part-time, and it's great having you there.
• 2:52:10
  SPEAKER_05: But see knowing you and going through several of these stages that you've talked about and seeing where you're at now, yeah.
• 2:52:17
  SPEAKER_05: Just not only seeing the settlement that you feel, yeah, but the excitement about this journey you're going on is really cool to see.
• 2:52:26
  SPEAKER_05: Thanks.
• 2:52:26
  SPEAKER_05: It's it's it's fun seeing that in people where they they find something that's a passion and it and not just a passion for yourself, yeah, but you're looking at this as how are you helping not just your clients but a larger class of people.
• 2:52:41
  SPEAKER_03: I want to be a helper.
• 2:52:42
  SPEAKER_05: So I think it's I think it's really cool that you're doing that.
• 2:52:44
  SPEAKER_03: Well, and wasn't that uh uh Mr.
• 2:52:46
  SPEAKER_03: Rogers I'll misquote Mr.
• 2:52:49
  SPEAKER_03: Rogers of like we suppose when things look bleak or whatever, find the helpers.
• 2:52:57
  SPEAKER_03: Look for the helpers.
• 2:52:58
  SPEAKER_03: Look for that.
• 2:52:58
  SPEAKER_03: I want to be a helper.
• 2:52:59
  SPEAKER_03: I want to help.
• 2:53:01
  SPEAKER_05: Um we all we need we all need more helpers.
• 2:53:04
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 2:53:05
  SPEAKER_05: So thank you for going down this route.
• 2:53:07
  SPEAKER_03: You're very welcome.
• 2:53:09
  SPEAKER_05: I hope it's very successful for you.
• 2:53:10
  SPEAKER_03: Me too.
• 2:53:11
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 2:53:12
  SPEAKER_03: And you know, in theory, it's in in theory, it's a it's a lucrative field.
• 2:53:18
  SPEAKER_03: Um but also uh it feels uh it feels like a good thing.
• 2:53:25
  SPEAKER_03: I'm just gonna repeat myself.
• 2:53:27
  SPEAKER_03: Um connecting and helping people.
• 2:53:35
  SPEAKER_05: One is monetarily, but also the second is seeing people's lives improve, seeing their their relationships with others improve.
• 2:53:44
  SPEAKER_05: And and I think that's just as much of a wealth as the money in the bank aspect of it.
• 2:53:51
  SPEAKER_03: Uh yes, and I'm gonna bring in another trying really hard to remember things without looking them up because that's the downfall of the written word in the digital age, is that everything is, oh let me just remember.
• 2:54:04
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, and this actually is uh was a quote from when my father passed, and we we stood I stood in a circle with um some of my aunties and we recited uh this the John Dunn um no man is an island unto himself and each when any man is diminished, as my I'm gonna misquote it, but basically any man being diminished diminishes me.
• 2:54:37
  SPEAKER_03: And so the converse is true, is that if I have been given the tools to help turn a light on in different people as I have feel like I have been able to turn a light on in myself, then what an amazing gift to like we raise everybody up, you know, like the rising tide lifts all boats, and so that's kind of what I can do.
• 2:55:07
  SPEAKER_03: I can't help everyone, but I can help some people, and then there's a ripple effect from there.
• 2:55:13
  SPEAKER_05: And I I I think it you know that there's a lot of people that are working on diminishing those around them to make themselves feel better, but I I I don't think it takes any more energy to raise the people up around you.
• 2:55:26
  SPEAKER_05: And if you if you raise the people up around you, don't you elevate it's the same thing.
• 2:55:30
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, rising tide lifts all boats, it's elevating yourself that you don't have to diminish others to lift yourself.
• 2:55:36
  SPEAKER_05: You're you're diminishing yourself when you're doing that.
• 2:55:38
  SPEAKER_05: And so I think the more people that are looking at uplifting those around them, that's right, the better off.
• 2:55:43
  SPEAKER_03: Don't be a candle blower outer.
• 2:55:45
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 2:55:48
  SPEAKER_05: Never heard that phrase before.
• 2:55:50
  SPEAKER_05: Really?
• 2:55:50
  SPEAKER_03: No, I think actually, I will say this is kind of a weird segue.
• 2:55:54
  SPEAKER_03: One of my favorite things about one of one of my favorite aspects or remembrances of my parenting.
• 2:56:00
  SPEAKER_03: Journey is toddler syntax that like when kids mispronounce or missay things and some things stick, like it's you know, can I even think of something wrong with the way kids say things and then it just sticks with you?
• 2:56:14
  SPEAKER_03: Of like, even though my mom's an English teacher, I'm a word nerd, I like you know, I have to stop myself from correcting people's grammar or you know, pronunciation, but like when kids say things are you know, now and now of course I can't think of it of an example, but a candle blower outer.
• 2:56:31
  SPEAKER_05: The the first thing that came to my mind when you're talking candle blower outer is what my mom for a couple years, she always wanted to have like this candlelight dinner for Christmas or Thanksgiving, and her dad, we'd always start, we'd have some candles lit, and it looked really nice.
• 2:56:45
  SPEAKER_05: And my grandpa's like, I can't see what I'm eating.
• 2:56:48
  SPEAKER_05: Turn the lights on.
• 2:56:49
  SPEAKER_05: I can't see what I'm eating.
• 2:56:51
  SPEAKER_03: See, was he a candle blower owner?
• 2:56:53
  SPEAKER_05: In a way, I guess grandpa was a candle blower owner because after a couple years, I I don't remember ever trying to have a candlelight dinner if grandpa was there because he was always going, I can't see what I'm eating.
• 2:57:04
  SPEAKER_05: I need some lights on.
• 2:57:05
  SPEAKER_03: That's a trip.
• 2:57:06
  SPEAKER_03: No, I gotta tell you, uh, heading into this, heading into having an interview with the you, there is a part of me that I wanted to do it, specifically because the idea was terrifying.
• 2:57:18
  SPEAKER_03: And so I think that's uh that that's another prism.
• 2:57:22
  SPEAKER_05: Your story was terrifying?
• 2:57:24
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and being recorded and then going to be mortified and look back, and like, oh my god, how did I pronounce that?
• 2:57:29
  SPEAKER_03: What was I saying?
• 2:57:30
  SPEAKER_03: Blah, blah, blah.
• 2:57:31
  SPEAKER_05: But that that is the Do you want another way to get away from that?
• 2:57:35
  SPEAKER_03: What?
• 2:57:36
  SPEAKER_05: Do you have Sam or Marty edit it and you never ever watch it?
• 2:57:39
  SPEAKER_03: And yeah.
• 2:57:40
  SPEAKER_05: I've never I've not watched a single one.
• 2:57:42
  SPEAKER_05: I've not watched a single one.
• 2:57:43
  SPEAKER_05: Good for you.
• 2:57:44
  SPEAKER_05: If if if I had to watch these before they none of this would ever get up to it.
• 2:57:47
  SPEAKER_03: Well, so there's an I'm a I'm a I'm big on cliches.
• 2:57:50
  SPEAKER_03: And actually, that's a little bit from my mom.
• 2:57:52
  SPEAKER_03: She was my mom was the original cliche.
• 2:57:55
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, choices, not chances, Susan.
• 2:57:58
  SPEAKER_03: Make choices, don't take chances.
• 2:58:00
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 2:58:01
  SPEAKER_03: And uh the one I'm thinking about is well, also I live in my truth and I speak my truth, and whatever anyone else has to say about me is none of my business.
• 2:58:15
  SPEAKER_05: So there's something I'm not worried about what other people say.
• 2:58:19
  SPEAKER_05: It's my own That's brilliant, yeah.
• 2:58:21
  SPEAKER_05: It's my own judgment on how I act and look and talk, and it drives me.
• 2:58:27
  SPEAKER_03: I've got that bone in me that's kinda I get it.
• 2:58:29
  SPEAKER_03: That's like, look at me, look, look, look.
• 2:58:30
  SPEAKER_03: Oh my god, don't look.
• 2:58:31
  SPEAKER_03: Don't, you know.
• 2:58:32
  SPEAKER_03: That's that's a little performer prancing pony.
• 2:58:36
  SPEAKER_03: I like, I do I enjoy spreading light.
• 2:58:38
  SPEAKER_03: I enjoy making people laugh.
• 2:58:41
  SPEAKER_05: I I do too.
• 2:58:42
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 2:58:43
  SPEAKER_05: I think it's uh I I I want to uplift other people.
• 2:58:45
  SPEAKER_05: I want to bring joy to people.
• 2:58:46
  SPEAKER_05: I want to I want to share stories like yours that people take that and and find something uplifting and inspiring about it.
• 2:58:55
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 2:58:56
  SPEAKER_05: I just don't like listen listen listening or looking at myself while I'm doing it.
• 2:59:01
  SPEAKER_04: No.
• 2:59:01
  SPEAKER_05: Uh-uh.
• 2:59:01
  SPEAKER_05: And so that's why Sam and Marty are very key to this whole operation happening.
• 2:59:06
  SPEAKER_05: That's rad.
• 2:59:07
  SPEAKER_05: Because I think there's no I and team.
• 2:59:12
  SPEAKER_05: There's no I and team.
• 2:59:15
  SPEAKER_05: All right.
• 2:59:15
  SPEAKER_05: Well, I I appreciate you getting past your nervousness and showing up.
• 2:59:21
  SPEAKER_03: Being out, getting it out there, sharing it.
• 2:59:23
  SPEAKER_05: And I I hope you get people that are inquiring about your hypnotherapy.
• 2:59:27
  SPEAKER_03: Me too.
• 2:59:28
  SPEAKER_05: And uh you keep serving the community of Haynes and helping us improve ourselves.
• 2:59:34
  SPEAKER_03: Thanks, Doug.
• 2:59:34
  SPEAKER_03: Thanks for doing, thanks for shining your light.
• 2:59:37
  SPEAKER_03: Only Doug could do a show that is Doug has questions.
• 2:59:41
  SPEAKER_05: But there could be another Doug that has issues.
• 2:59:44
  SPEAKER_03: Ah, all right.
• 2:59:45
  SPEAKER_03: All right, my high water alarm's going off.
• 2:59:47
  SPEAKER_03: Perfect.
• 2:59:47
  SPEAKER_03: Thanks, Susie.
• 2:59:48
  SPEAKER_03: I feel like that's yeah, thank you.
• 2:59:50
  SPEAKER_03: Appreciate it.
• 2:59:51
  SPEAKER_03: All right.
• 2:59:52
  SPEAKER_03: Yay!