Latest / Life Will Be the Death of Me with Chelsea Handler / Healthy Anger & Saying No with Gabor Maté

Transcript

Healthy Anger & Saying No with Gabor Maté · Life Will Be the Death of Me with Chelsea Handler

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Hi, Catherine.
• 0:01
  Speaker 2: Oh hello Chelsea.
• 0:03
  Speaker 3: Hi.
• 0:03
  Speaker 4: I'm just trying myself in my work ut. It's so
• 0:06
  Speaker 4: hot here, so hot. I'm just trying to figure out
• 0:09
  Speaker 4: where I'm going to go next because I might have
• 0:11
  Speaker 4: to leave before my next guests get here.
• 0:13
  Speaker 2: It's too hot. Oh no, Well, were your first guests
• 0:16
  Speaker 2: fun at least?
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: Mm hmm.
• 0:17
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: No, everyone's been fun.
• 0:19
  Speaker 2: We've had a lot of good laughs.
• 0:20
  Speaker 4: We've had a lot of good You know, everything's legal
• 0:23
  Speaker 4: in Spain, mushrooms, LSD, even cocaine is legal in Spain.
• 0:28
  Speaker 4: Cocaine's legal in Canada. Now I've just found out. I'm
• 0:31
  Speaker 4: like cocaine. Every time you think cocaine is out of style,
• 0:34
  Speaker 4: it makes some sort of comeback.
• 0:36
  Speaker 6: I mean I was like, wait, this is like a
• 0:38
  Speaker 6: thing again now, and I feel like it's happening all
• 0:40
  Speaker 6: over again, although now I'm too afraid to try it
• 0:42
  Speaker 6: because of all the additives.
• 0:44
  Speaker 4: Well in America that's a thing, fence and all. In
• 0:46
  Speaker 4: London and everyone was doing blow, I was like what.
• 0:49
  Speaker 4: I was like, people are still doing cocaine here. I
• 0:51
  Speaker 4: mean not everybody, but a good portion of people. I
• 0:54
  Speaker 4: was like, wait, what about fentanyl. They're like we don't
• 0:55
  Speaker 4: have that problem here. I'm like, oh, really, we don't
• 0:57
  Speaker 4: have fentanyl here. Only America has up problem because we
• 1:00
  Speaker 4: have people like Gronda Santis and Trump to deal with,
• 1:02
  Speaker 4: so we need the fentanel.
• 1:04
  Speaker 6: I was going to ask, you've spent a lot of
• 1:06
  Speaker 6: family time this summer. Do you get sick of being
• 1:08
  Speaker 6: around family after a certain amount of time?
• 1:11
  Speaker 4: I think of everybody, I mean, I just like to
• 1:14
  Speaker 4: I mean, it's better, you know, like post therapy now,
• 1:16
  Speaker 4: I know, I'm just better at modulating my moods and
• 1:20
  Speaker 4: not freaking out or losing my shit. Like I don't
• 1:24
  Speaker 4: really do that anymore, luckily. I mean, I don't want
• 1:27
  Speaker 4: to write it off completely because we watch it will
• 1:28
  Speaker 4: happen tonight. But I'm pretty good about that. And when
• 1:32
  Speaker 4: I want to be alone, I'm just pretty obvious about it.
• 1:34
  Speaker 4: I just remove myself from a situation. And I just
• 1:37
  Speaker 4: read that book Lessons in Chemistry. That was I keep
• 1:40
  Speaker 4: trying to stop reading books so I could just focus
• 1:42
  Speaker 4: on writing my book. But then I'm like, fuck, I
• 1:44
  Speaker 4: love reading so much, and I feel like every time
• 1:47
  Speaker 4: you read something, you gain something for writing. So but
• 1:49
  Speaker 4: when I don't have time, like if I'm over people.
• 1:52
  Speaker 4: I just go and read my book somewhere. The thing
• 1:54
  Speaker 4: that annoys me the most is when you are reading
• 1:56
  Speaker 4: a book and someone starts talking to you. It's like,
• 1:58
  Speaker 4: what do you think I'm doing? What does this fucking
• 2:01
  Speaker 4: look like?
• 2:02
  Speaker 6: I'm reading, I'm busy. I'm looking at something else. That
• 2:06
  Speaker 6: happens to be quite often. And I won't say who
• 2:08
  Speaker 6: it is, but it's definitely the person who lives with me. Yeah,
• 2:12
  Speaker 6: it's like, hey, do you want to have a conversation
• 2:13
  Speaker 6: right now?
• 2:14
  Speaker 4: We got that, We got that very loud and clear.
• 2:18
  Speaker 4: I went and got this MRI called like praneuva or something,
• 2:21
  Speaker 4: which is like a body MRI to like detect any early,
• 2:24
  Speaker 4: like tumors or anything you're It's supposed to be like
• 2:26
  Speaker 4: a pre deetection. But once you do it, you open
• 2:28
  Speaker 4: yourself up to everything because everyone has nodules or gross
• 2:32
  Speaker 4: or like little things. So but my doctor was like, oh,
• 2:34
  Speaker 4: I see something in like your L five L six.
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: I was like, what's that?
• 2:37
  Speaker 4: He's like your neck and I'm like really, He goes, yeah,
• 2:39
  Speaker 4: something's off in your neck. I have to order you
• 2:41
  Speaker 4: a spinal MRI and see how bad it is. If
• 2:43
  Speaker 4: it's something that we need to look at or whatever.
• 2:46
  Speaker 4: And as soon as he said that, my neck hasn't
• 2:48
  Speaker 4: stopped killing me.
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: Oh no, how is that though? Oh it's psychosomatic.
• 2:52
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean I'm like, oh fuck, now my neck
• 2:55
  Speaker 4: is killing me.
• 2:57
  Speaker 6: No, okay, So I have to tell you. I I've
• 3:01
  Speaker 6: never talked about this with you before, I don't think.
• 3:04
  Speaker 6: But my therapist I go to is a sematic pain therapist.
• 3:09
  Speaker 6: And I found her about a year ago or a
• 3:12
  Speaker 6: year and a half ago. Now, maybe because I was
• 3:14
  Speaker 6: having terrible pain in my feet. I had been having
• 3:17
  Speaker 6: like really bad plantar fasci iis for like six years,
• 3:21
  Speaker 6: and I had had these painful episodes where I just
• 3:25
  Speaker 6: had this like terrible pelvic pain and they would come
• 3:28
  Speaker 6: and go, and I didn't know what was setting them off.
• 3:30
  Speaker 6: And so I started seeing this sematic pain therapist after
• 3:34
  Speaker 6: several symptoms told me like, maybe this isn't a physical pain,
• 3:40
  Speaker 6: maybe this is something else. Like I would move around
• 3:42
  Speaker 6: my body some days my left knee would hurt, some
• 3:44
  Speaker 6: days my right knee would hurt. Which if it's structural,
• 3:47
  Speaker 6: that's not gonna happen, right, So I can't tell you
• 3:51
  Speaker 6: the difference that this therapy has made in my life.
• 3:53
  Speaker 6: I no longer have any foot pain. Instead of feeling
• 3:57
  Speaker 6: pain when I wake up in the morning, when I
• 3:58
  Speaker 6: set my feet on the ground, I feel like, oh,
• 4:01
  Speaker 6: I might need to stretch a little bit. It has
• 4:03
  Speaker 6: helped me totally reframe all of my pain. My pain
• 4:07
  Speaker 6: events when they do happen, they're very, very mild, and
• 4:11
  Speaker 6: I can sort of like breathe through them and meditate
• 4:13
  Speaker 6: through them, which is something that like surgery to not fix.
• 4:17
  Speaker 6: But yeah, it's a lot about people pleasing, a lot
• 4:20
  Speaker 6: about stress and this therapy, which really I kept thinking, like,
• 4:25
  Speaker 6: what's it going to be, like, are they going to
• 4:27
  Speaker 6: give me special meditations that are going to fix all
• 4:29
  Speaker 6: these things because it's specifically about pain, But it's just
• 4:33
  Speaker 6: really normal therapy where they kind of help you figure
• 4:37
  Speaker 6: out all your pain stuff and how to fix your
• 4:40
  Speaker 6: stress stuff so that the pain goes away or is
• 4:44
  Speaker 6: much reduced or you have a different relationship to it.
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: So yeah, that's something I haven't talked about on.
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: This before, saying interesting somatic therapist.
• 4:52
  Speaker 2: Thematic is body uh huh.
• 4:55
  Speaker 6: And the thing about sematic pain, like we used to
• 4:57
  Speaker 6: call it psychosomatic pain, it is real pain. It's like
• 5:01
  Speaker 6: you're really feeling this pain, but it's sort of your
• 5:03
  Speaker 6: brain misinterpreting signals from your body that it thinks are pain,
• 5:09
  Speaker 6: but really they're really just sort of like warning signals
• 5:11
  Speaker 6: of like maybe you're too tired, maybe you're this I
• 5:15
  Speaker 6: had a couple friends who had really bad back pain,
• 5:18
  Speaker 6: and they had sort of done similar therapies, and they
• 5:20
  Speaker 6: like don't have back pain anymore. Like my one girlfriend says,
• 5:24
  Speaker 6: you know, when I start to have like a twinge
• 5:25
  Speaker 6: in my back and I feel like a throw my
• 5:28
  Speaker 6: back out coming on, I know that I need to
• 5:30
  Speaker 6: like sit and rest and journal, you know, in journal
• 5:35
  Speaker 6: and like get her stress and stuff out. So I
• 5:37
  Speaker 6: went to the La Pain Psychology Center and they helped
• 5:39
  Speaker 6: me tremendously.
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: I can't general no, I just I can't handwrite stuff.
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: My answer always.
• 5:46
  Speaker 4: If I write a card, a birthday card, my hand
• 5:49
  Speaker 4: hurts for an hour after.
• 5:50
  Speaker 7: Oh.
• 5:50
  Speaker 6: I would argue that you write many journals, they just
• 5:53
  Speaker 6: get published as books.
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: Well, I type those. I can type. I have no
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: problem typing, but I can't i'm writing.
• 6:00
  Speaker 4: I'm like, oh, that's why I'm scared to put out
• 6:03
  Speaker 4: another book, because I don't want to do that I do.
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: Know why I can't sign those books again.
• 6:07
  Speaker 4: So many books you have to sign when you have
• 6:08
  Speaker 4: a book cover, right, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's like your
• 6:11
  Speaker 4: hand on you get carpal tunnel totally.
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: I mean I when I go on.
• 6:14
  Speaker 4: Book tours and like do book signings you have, I
• 6:16
  Speaker 4: literally go in after and.
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: Put my hand in an ice c my gosh.
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I've got to learn how to sign with.
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: My toes or something, or like a stamp.
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: Or Bernice needs to fucking chip in.
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: She's so lazy.
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: Oh, Bernie is my lover. Okay.
• 6:30
  Speaker 4: Our next guest is a very well known Canadian physician
• 6:33
  Speaker 4: and author. He has written the books When the Body
• 6:35
  Speaker 4: Says No, Scattered Minds, and In the Realm of Hungry Ghosts.
• 6:40
  Speaker 4: He's also written a book called Hold Onto Your Kids,
• 6:42
  Speaker 4: and his most recent book, which has been on the
• 6:44
  Speaker 4: New York Times bestseller list for nineteen weeks, is called
• 6:47
  Speaker 4: The Myth of Normal.
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: Please welcome gadbor mate.
• 6:51
  Speaker 4: Hello, oh, hello doctor, good morning, well, good afternoonsh nice
• 6:57
  Speaker 4: to meet you.
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: I'm Chelsea.
• 7:00
  Speaker 3: Is a gobor and I wish you'd row up the
• 7:01
  Speaker 3: doctor's stuff.
• 7:02
  Speaker 4: Okay, I'm so used to everyone calling me a doctor.
• 7:05
  Speaker 4: So I was just projecting and you know, Catherine, my
• 7:08
  Speaker 4: co host.
• 7:09
  Speaker 3: Hi there, Hi, I can clear a doctor if.
• 7:11
  Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, sure, sure whatever. It's very nice to speak
• 7:14
  Speaker 4: with you. Thank you for coming on the podcast. I'm
• 7:16
  Speaker 4: very much looking forward to asking you some questions and
• 7:20
  Speaker 4: having you help some of our callers with their life
• 7:23
  Speaker 4: advice and life questions.
• 7:24
  Speaker 3: Well if I can, if I can do it, I'll try. So.
• 7:27
  Speaker 4: Your new book, which has been on the New York
• 7:28
  Speaker 4: Times best seller list, is called The Myth of Normal,
• 7:33
  Speaker 4: and your book before that was also a huge success,
• 7:37
  Speaker 4: and it is called When the Body Says No, which
• 7:40
  Speaker 4: has been brought up on our podcast multiple times.
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: So I wanted to talk to you.
• 7:45
  Speaker 4: A little bit about the relationship between trauma and ADHD
• 7:52
  Speaker 4: and how add and ADHD differentiate with their relationship to trauma.
• 7:57
  Speaker 4: If you could speak to that a little bit, I'm
• 7:59
  Speaker 4: very curious.
• 8:00
  Speaker 3: Sure.
• 8:01
  Speaker 8: Well, that's actually my favoritt book which I wrote when
• 8:03
  Speaker 8: I was in my mid fifties and just diagnosed freshly
• 8:07
  Speaker 8: with attention deficit hyperactive disorder. That book is called Scattered Minds. Now,
• 8:12
  Speaker 8: the characteristics of this condition are the people have trouble
• 8:17
  Speaker 8: staying focused. They tend to tune out, kind of absu
• 8:20
  Speaker 8: mind it a lot. So they tend to lose things,
• 8:22
  Speaker 8: forget things, mix up appointments, this kind of stuff, miss
• 8:26
  Speaker 8: parts of conversations. They tend to pour impulse control. So
• 8:31
  Speaker 8: when they want to do something, even if they know
• 8:33
  Speaker 8: it's not so good for them, they tend to do it.
• 8:35
  Speaker 3: So people they did the slip very easily into addictions.
• 8:38
  Speaker 8: And the hyperactive part is some of them have trouble
• 8:42
  Speaker 8: sitting still there restless. They have to move all the time.
• 8:44
  Speaker 8: You can see their feet tapping on the floor, their
• 8:47
  Speaker 8: thumbs fidgetting on the table. You know, that's the hyperactive part.
• 8:50
  Speaker 8: So now, the usual medical view of it, which I
• 8:54
  Speaker 8: don't agree with, is that this is the genetic brain
• 8:57
  Speaker 8: disorder that passed on for Munde to the next. Now
• 9:00
  Speaker 8: I was diagnosed with it, so repove my kids, and
• 9:03
  Speaker 8: I don't think it's either a disease of the brain,
• 9:06
  Speaker 8: nor do I think it's a genetic So what is
• 9:08
  Speaker 8: it actually? And this is where life experience comes into it.
• 9:12
  Speaker 8: Tuning out is an actual capacity of the human brain.
• 9:17
  Speaker 8: As an example, if I were to stress you right
• 9:20
  Speaker 8: now by being rude and appropriate aggressive, you'd have some
• 9:24
  Speaker 8: healthy options. You could just hang up on me, say
• 9:27
  Speaker 8: heck with you, or you could fight back and tell
• 9:30
  Speaker 8: me God, but you're not the right to talk to
• 9:31
  Speaker 8: me that way. What if you couldn't either escape or
• 9:34
  Speaker 8: fight back, then how would you handle it? I tell
• 9:37
  Speaker 8: you how you handle it. When there's a lot of
• 9:39
  Speaker 8: stress and a person is helpless, the brain tunes out
• 9:43
  Speaker 8: as a defense mechanism. If this happens early in life,
• 9:47
  Speaker 8: if the parents are stressed because the relationship troubles, or
• 9:50
  Speaker 8: because they're on on result trauma, or because of economic
• 9:54
  Speaker 8: stress or racialist stress or whatever stress, the child is
• 9:58
  Speaker 8: very sensitive. The infant is very insitive to the parents'
• 10:01
  Speaker 8: emotional states. When the parent is stressed, the child is stressed.
• 10:05
  Speaker 8: When the infant and the young child is stressed, there's
• 10:08
  Speaker 8: not much they can do about it. They tune out.
• 10:10
  Speaker 8: There's a defense mechanism they don't do deliberately. And when
• 10:15
  Speaker 8: they're doing this when their brain is developing. So how
• 10:18
  Speaker 8: the human brain develops is an interaction with the environment.
• 10:22
  Speaker 8: And if you look at the studies of human brain development,
• 10:25
  Speaker 8: the biggest influence on new chemicals, the secretry the netflix
• 10:29
  Speaker 8: of the brain is the emotional.
• 10:32
  Speaker 3: Relationship with the adults. If that relationship is stressed, not
• 10:36
  Speaker 3: because the parents don't love their kids. It's not because
• 10:38
  Speaker 3: they're not trying to do their best, because they themselves
• 10:40
  Speaker 3: are stressed. The child is stressed, and what happens is
• 10:44
  Speaker 3: that the tuning ug gets wired into the brain and
• 10:47
  Speaker 3: then ten years later or fifty years later in my case,
• 10:50
  Speaker 3: the person is diagnosed with the so called brain disease
• 10:53
  Speaker 3: that they inherited. Now, what happened to me was I
• 10:56
  Speaker 3: was a Jewish infant under the Nazis in Hungary in
• 10:59
  Speaker 3: the Second World or I don't have to go into
• 11:01
  Speaker 3: it here, but you can imagine how stressed it was,
• 11:04
  Speaker 3: how stressed my mother was. How did I deal with
• 11:07
  Speaker 3: that stress? I tune out. And this is where my
• 11:10
  Speaker 3: brain is developing now. My own kids grew up in
• 11:13
  Speaker 3: Canada in a loving home, but with a father who
• 11:16
  Speaker 3: was a workaholic, add driven personality. And when I was
• 11:22
  Speaker 3: at home, I was very often in a bad mood.
• 11:24
  Speaker 3: And since I hate to tell you guys this, but
• 11:28
  Speaker 3: we always marry somebody at the same level of trauma
• 11:31
  Speaker 3: that we're at. It means I met and married a
• 11:35
  Speaker 3: woman who was as traumatized as I was not in
• 11:37
  Speaker 3: the same way, but to the same degree. So now
• 11:41
  Speaker 3: we have two traumatized parents, two young people who remember
• 11:44
  Speaker 3: that traumas acting out on each other in a form
• 11:47
  Speaker 3: of family conflict, and our kids live in a stressed
• 11:51
  Speaker 3: environment so they tune out. So yeah, what was passed
• 11:54
  Speaker 3: on here is not DD. What was passed on was
• 11:59
  Speaker 3: the stress and the trauma, which is multi generous.
• 12:03
  Speaker 6: You've talked quite a bit about those things that we
• 12:07
  Speaker 6: develop as children as coping mechanisms, ADHD being one of them.
• 12:10
  Speaker 6: I know that's my situation as well, But how we
• 12:13
  Speaker 6: take those into adulthood in ways that don't serve us?
• 12:16
  Speaker 6: Can you talk a little bit more about that well.
• 12:18
  Speaker 8: So, first of all, the tuning out, which is a
• 12:20
  Speaker 8: coping mechanism, gets wired into the brain, so it does
• 12:23
  Speaker 8: become a matter of brain physiology. But the deproblem didn't
• 12:26
  Speaker 8: start in the brain. It started with how the environment
• 12:29
  Speaker 8: acted on the brain. It's difficult in adult life to
• 12:33
  Speaker 8: be in relationship with somebody who's about ADHD because the
• 12:36
  Speaker 8: poor tension span, the poor impulse control. Sometimes my wife
• 12:40
  Speaker 8: would say, you're not listening to me, you know, thinking
• 12:42
  Speaker 8: I was not doing it deliberately but actually what would
• 12:45
  Speaker 8: actually happening is that, especially when the emotional environment.
• 12:48
  Speaker 3: Gets a bit heavy, I tend to tune out.
• 12:52
  Speaker 4: Can I ask you a question when you say tune
• 12:54
  Speaker 4: out when you're talking about that, are you talking about
• 12:56
  Speaker 4: disassociation or is that a separate category?
• 12:59
  Speaker 8: Yeah, about this situation simply means disconnecting from the present moment.
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: So same thing, the degrees of it.
• 13:07
  Speaker 8: So I would say that ADHD is a milder form
• 13:10
  Speaker 8: of dissociation, and it's not all the time. When you're
• 13:14
  Speaker 8: very interested in something where you're motivated, oh, you can
• 13:17
  Speaker 8: pay perfect attention. So partly it's also a matter of motivation,
• 13:21
  Speaker 8: emotional safety, comfort, and so on. But the point is,
• 13:26
  Speaker 8: if you came to me as a parent with a
• 13:28
  Speaker 8: kid with ADHD, what would you rather hear, sir or madam.
• 13:32
  Speaker 8: You've got this kid with this genetic brand disease, or
• 13:36
  Speaker 8: you've got a kid who probably grew up in a
• 13:38
  Speaker 8: stressed environment. Not your fault, you did your best. But
• 13:41
  Speaker 8: if you provide the right environment, that kid can develop
• 13:44
  Speaker 8: new brain circuits and can grow in very healthy ways.
• 13:48
  Speaker 8: So the second message puts more responsibly on the parent,
• 13:52
  Speaker 8: not guilt, but responsibility. But at the same time, if
• 13:56
  Speaker 8: you're a parent, which would you rather hear?
• 13:58
  Speaker 4: Yeah, And that's very helpful, you know, for people to
• 14:01
  Speaker 4: be able to know that they can change their behavior
• 14:02
  Speaker 4: if they put it, the work towards it, and the
• 14:04
  Speaker 4: effort needed.
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: What do you think the contribution.
• 14:06
  Speaker 4: Of social media and all of that has on add
• 14:10
  Speaker 4: and ADHD.
• 14:11
  Speaker 8: Well, First of all, let me say something about the
• 14:13
  Speaker 8: contribution of social culture in general, because if you look
• 14:16
  Speaker 8: at what's happening with bad diagnosis, or i should say,
• 14:20
  Speaker 8: any other childhood diagnosis, childhood depression, childhood anxiety, self cutting, bulimia, anorexia,
• 14:28
  Speaker 8: childhood soucides, these numbers are going up and up and
• 14:31
  Speaker 8: up and up and up here in North America. Now,
• 14:34
  Speaker 8: if these are genetic disorders, why would they be going up.
• 14:37
  Speaker 8: Genes don't change in a population over ten or fifteen
• 14:40
  Speaker 8: or twenty or thirty or fifty years. So if the
• 14:43
  Speaker 8: numbers are going up, there's something happening in the culture.
• 14:46
  Speaker 8: And what's happening in the culture is that people are
• 14:49
  Speaker 8: much more isolated and much more stressed than they used
• 14:51
  Speaker 8: to be, and parents are much more isolated and stressed
• 14:54
  Speaker 8: that they used to be. Ghost parents are even together,
• 14:57
  Speaker 8: but there's a high divorce rate, and there is a
• 14:59
  Speaker 8: high rate of depression amongst adults, and that's affecting the children.
• 15:03
  Speaker 8: So what I'm saying is that the reason we're seeing
• 15:05
  Speaker 8: more and more these childhood disorders is not because they're
• 15:08
  Speaker 8: any genetic epidemic, but because the conditions on the region,
• 15:12
  Speaker 8: means developed and thrive are less and less available. And
• 15:16
  Speaker 8: that's really the essential motif of my most recent book,
• 15:20
  Speaker 8: The Myth of Normal.
• 15:21
  Speaker 3: The subtitle is the Myth of.
• 15:23
  Speaker 8: Normal, Trauma, illness and healing and a toxic culture. And
• 15:27
  Speaker 8: I'm basically saying we're living in a toxic culture now.
• 15:30
  Speaker 8: Now social media comes into it. How First of all,
• 15:34
  Speaker 8: one of the essential needs of children is free play,
• 15:38
  Speaker 8: spontaneous play out there in nature. As soon as you
• 15:41
  Speaker 8: introduce screens into the kid's life, that's over with. Because
• 15:44
  Speaker 8: these things, these devices, normally are they highly addictive. They're
• 15:49
  Speaker 8: designed to be addictive. They call it neural marketing. They
• 15:53
  Speaker 8: design and to hook in the brains of young kids.
• 15:56
  Speaker 8: And if you look at the brains of children who
• 15:58
  Speaker 8: are a lot on social media, they don't look normal.
• 16:02
  Speaker 8: Circuits that involve thinking and emotional regulation are attenuated or
• 16:07
  Speaker 8: not well developed as a result of screen news. Number one.
• 16:11
  Speaker 8: Number two, there's the addiction addictive thing. You take a
• 16:16
  Speaker 8: kid on social media. If you're a parent and you
• 16:18
  Speaker 8: get addicted to social media, you try and get them
• 16:21
  Speaker 8: to stop it. I've worked with drug addicts. One of
• 16:23
  Speaker 8: my books is on addiction, and I worked with some
• 16:26
  Speaker 8: of the most severe drug addicts in North America. Actually
• 16:29
  Speaker 8: trying to separate a child who's hooked on their social
• 16:32
  Speaker 8: media from their devices. It's like trying to get a
• 16:36
  Speaker 8: severely opiate dependent individual off their heroin. They hate you,
• 16:41
  Speaker 8: they attack you, they fight back, their hostile they're really upset.
• 16:45
  Speaker 8: Why Because they're addicted, and they're respawning, like any addicted person,
• 16:49
  Speaker 8: to the threatened deprivation of the addictive preference. Thirdly, a
• 16:54
  Speaker 8: lot of parents use social media as a way of
• 16:56
  Speaker 8: babysitting their kids. Now, I don't blame them for it.
• 17:00
  Speaker 8: Painting was never meant to be as difficult and as
• 17:02
  Speaker 8: isolated and as stressed as it is in this culture,
• 17:05
  Speaker 8: but the result is that people are no longer relating
• 17:08
  Speaker 8: to adults in their lives. How we evolved as human
• 17:11
  Speaker 8: beings is we lived in small tribes, but the adults
• 17:14
  Speaker 8: were all around us the whole day. No kids can
• 17:17
  Speaker 8: spend the whole day relating to each other, which means
• 17:21
  Speaker 8: they lose respect for the adults because we tend to
• 17:24
  Speaker 8: get our orientation and our guidance from the people that
• 17:28
  Speaker 8: we're connecting with. When kids have connected with other kids
• 17:31
  Speaker 8: most of the time, they can't care less what the
• 17:33
  Speaker 8: adults think, and they start getting obstreperous and resistant, and
• 17:36
  Speaker 8: the adults thinking, what's wrong with these kids? Nothing's wrong
• 17:39
  Speaker 8: with the kids. What's wrong with the kids is that
• 17:42
  Speaker 8: the healthy relationship with adults has been so weekend in
• 17:46
  Speaker 8: this culture, the kids are influencing each other. I mean,
• 17:50
  Speaker 8: look at all the child influencers out there, immature creatures.
• 17:54
  Speaker 8: I don't mean that as a pejority of I just
• 17:56
  Speaker 8: mean objectively, they're immature and i having matured yet influencing
• 18:00
  Speaker 8: millions of their peers.
• 18:03
  Speaker 3: I mean that's a frightening phenomenon.
• 18:05
  Speaker 4: Yeah, but with what you said earlier, I mean, you
• 18:08
  Speaker 4: can retrain that neural circuitry, right, You can create new
• 18:12
  Speaker 4: habits at any time almost, I mean, unless you have
• 18:15
  Speaker 4: some other inhibiting factor.
• 18:17
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 18:18
  Speaker 4: Yeah, So it's not a hopeless situation if you address
• 18:21
  Speaker 4: the situation and try to limit.
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: The addictive behavior of children on their devices.
• 18:26
  Speaker 4: I mean, I saw my friend's four year old son
• 18:29
  Speaker 4: throw an iPad at her face when she tried to
• 18:31
  Speaker 4: take it away from him, and I thought, oh my god,
• 18:35
  Speaker 4: that's an addict that's like taking away. Yeah, so it
• 18:39
  Speaker 4: is very disturbing.
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: We're going to take a quick break. We'll be right back.
• 18:47
  Speaker 4: I know you discuss in your books, all of your books,
• 18:49
  Speaker 4: the mind body connection. So when you're talking about retraining
• 18:53
  Speaker 4: the neural circuitry, how does.
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: The body fall in step with that?
• 18:57
  Speaker 8: Again, if you look at how you evolved as human creatures,
• 19:01
  Speaker 8: they didn't involve in cities and pavements and isolated apartments.
• 19:06
  Speaker 8: Revolved out there in nature, living with other human beings
• 19:09
  Speaker 8: in small groups and traveling with them and hunting with
• 19:12
  Speaker 8: them and collecting food with them. But there was a
• 19:15
  Speaker 8: real sense of community.
• 19:17
  Speaker 3: And in Canada, as in the United States, indigenous people
• 19:22
  Speaker 3: suffered the most in terms of addictions and suicides and
• 19:27
  Speaker 3: autoimmune diseases and domestic violence.
• 19:31
  Speaker 8: Why because of what was done to them in Canada
• 19:34
  Speaker 8: and in samples the United States, there were this state enforced,
• 19:39
  Speaker 8: church run residential schools with an indigenous child as much
• 19:44
  Speaker 8: as spoke their own tribal language, they pinned stuck to
• 19:48
  Speaker 8: that to discourage them when speak their language. Where they
• 19:51
  Speaker 8: were sexually abused, physically abused, they often died, starved, beaten
• 19:57
  Speaker 8: as a result of all that multigenational trauma. These people
• 20:00
  Speaker 8: have a lot of addictions, a lot of mental health issues,
• 20:04
  Speaker 8: a lot of physical health issues. So I'm often asked
• 20:07
  Speaker 8: to both of these communities and help with their healing process.
• 20:11
  Speaker 8: So that's one reason I go there. They have such wisdom,
• 20:14
  Speaker 8: their traditional wisdom is so much more holistic and connected,
• 20:22
  Speaker 8: and they see themselves not as isolated individuals, but as
• 20:25
  Speaker 8: part of our universe, really very much in their bodies,
• 20:29
  Speaker 8: in their natural states, and in their God feelings connected
• 20:33
  Speaker 8: to their God feelings. No, one of the things that
• 20:35
  Speaker 8: happens in trauma is that people get disconnected from their
• 20:38
  Speaker 8: God feelings. Have you ever met the one day old
• 20:40
  Speaker 8: baby not connected to their God feelings?
• 20:44
  Speaker 3: So something happened, Something happened that is connected to film
• 20:48
  Speaker 3: your body. And what happened was that at some point
• 20:51
  Speaker 3: you learned that to be accepted by your environment, you
• 20:56
  Speaker 3: kind of have to disconnect from yourself. Now that also
• 20:59
  Speaker 3: means that healing also happens to the body, and so
• 21:03
  Speaker 3: that when you're ignoring, you've got feelings, you're knowing your body.
• 21:06
  Speaker 3: That's what you're doing.
• 21:08
  Speaker 8: So when I teach people healing modalities, it is very
• 21:12
  Speaker 8: much to do with reconnecting with the body.
• 21:14
  Speaker 3: Actually being aware of what's in your body, what's in
• 21:17
  Speaker 3: your throat, what's in your belly's what's happening in your chest,
• 21:21
  Speaker 3: are your muscle's feelings? You know, So be reconnecting with
• 21:25
  Speaker 3: the body because of the brain in the mind can't
• 21:28
  Speaker 3: be separated. When you're present with your body, you're present
• 21:31
  Speaker 3: with your brain as well.
• 21:32
  Speaker 6: And you've said when a no comes up for you,
• 21:35
  Speaker 6: it's begging to be said, and if you don't say no,
• 21:38
  Speaker 6: that the body will do it for you in the
• 21:40
  Speaker 6: form of illness. Can you expand on that a little bit?
• 21:44
  Speaker 3: Sure? Well, you guys live on where in LA or where?
• 21:47
  Speaker 8: Okay, let's say you live in LA and we're friends
• 21:51
  Speaker 8: and I fly into LA and Catherine, I call you
• 21:55
  Speaker 8: up and I say, can we go for coffee? But
• 21:57
  Speaker 8: you don't want to because you has spin up all
• 22:00
  Speaker 8: night tending a sick friend or a sick dog or
• 22:03
  Speaker 8: a sick child. I don't know, or maybe you just
• 22:05
  Speaker 8: don't feel like a period, you know, but you don't
• 22:09
  Speaker 8: say no. What's going to be the impact on you
• 22:11
  Speaker 8: if you don't say no, If you're in that state,
• 22:14
  Speaker 8: you don't say no, you have coffee with me? What's
• 22:16
  Speaker 8: going to be impact on you?
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: I can already feel that feeling in my stomach.
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: I mean I do that all the time. I do
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: things I don't feel like doing all the time.
• 22:24
  Speaker 3: What is the impact on you?
• 22:26
  Speaker 4: I mean I don't know specifically, but I definitely it's
• 22:29
  Speaker 4: so hard because that's life.
• 22:31
  Speaker 8: You know, so many no notice, that's life as you've
• 22:35
  Speaker 8: created it. Okay, now, and you don't say no, will
• 22:39
  Speaker 8: you agree that you're more likely to be tired?
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yes, irritable, more.
• 22:45
  Speaker 8: Likely to be irritable, stressed, monetly, a difficulty sleeping, or
• 22:49
  Speaker 8: you know, there's going to be some impact. Not only that,
• 22:52
  Speaker 8: you're going to be more resentful as well. Now all
• 22:55
  Speaker 8: those states are body states. When you don't know how
• 22:57
  Speaker 8: to say no, And we can talk about white people
• 23:00
  Speaker 8: have such trouble saying no. I totally understand what you're saying,
• 23:02
  Speaker 8: but it tells me a certain history I mean, you
• 23:05
  Speaker 8: don't know how to say no, and the body sends
• 23:07
  Speaker 8: you these messages like whatever fiting in your belly or
• 23:10
  Speaker 8: the fatigue of it, and you don't pay attention, it
• 23:12
  Speaker 8: might end up saying no in a big way.
• 23:14
  Speaker 3: And when I study.
• 23:15
  Speaker 8: Chronic illness like autoimmunities, is rumor too, that's writer, it's
• 23:18
  Speaker 8: multiple scrosses collidis, these chronic fatigue, pablomy alge, chronic services, examma, asthma,
• 23:25
  Speaker 8: I could go on. Typical of the people that develop
• 23:29
  Speaker 8: those conditions is that they don't know how to say no,
• 23:32
  Speaker 8: so they take on too much stress. Why because they're
• 23:35
  Speaker 8: afraid of disappointing the other person, and they think it's
• 23:38
  Speaker 8: their responsibility to make other people happy and never to
• 23:41
  Speaker 8: let anybody down. And what it's good to be kind,
• 23:45
  Speaker 8: it's dangerous to be kind only to others and not
• 23:48
  Speaker 8: to yourself. Now, not blaming anybody. These patterns develop in childhood.
• 23:54
  Speaker 8: It meant that as a child you were discouraged from
• 23:57
  Speaker 8: saying no because you were thought to be nice and
• 23:59
  Speaker 8: pleasant and compliant and appeasing people and pleasing people. Or
• 24:04
  Speaker 8: maybe your parents were so stressed, maybe they were alcoholics,
• 24:07
  Speaker 8: or maybe they were fighting, or maybe they were economically
• 24:11
  Speaker 8: overwhelmed and you kind of took on the responsibility or
• 24:15
  Speaker 8: making them feel better by meeting their needs and forgetting
• 24:20
  Speaker 8: your own.
• 24:21
  Speaker 3: So this is not how life has to be. It's
• 24:23
  Speaker 3: to be a lot of.
• 24:24
  Speaker 8: Children in this society of programmed. Now, if you ask
• 24:27
  Speaker 8: the question, and I have a chapter on it in
• 24:29
  Speaker 8: a metal normal, why is it that women have eighty
• 24:32
  Speaker 8: percent of autommune disease? Why is it of the two
• 24:35
  Speaker 8: major genders in this culture, which is the one that's
• 24:39
  Speaker 8: acculturated and programmed into pleasing other people, ignoring their own needs,
• 24:44
  Speaker 8: repressing their healthy anger, so they always should be nice.
• 24:49
  Speaker 8: It's women not to disappoint others and think responsible for
• 24:52
  Speaker 8: other people feelings. It's women, And that's why women have
• 24:55
  Speaker 8: more auto immun disease because the mind and body being
• 24:59
  Speaker 8: inseparable scientifically, when your emotions and your psychic apparatus in
• 25:05
  Speaker 8: your brain. By psychic, I mean the emotional appetist in
• 25:07
  Speaker 8: your brain is connected to the immune system, to your guts,
• 25:11
  Speaker 8: to your heart, to your lungs, to your nervous system.
• 25:15
  Speaker 8: When things are disturbed in your emotional apparatus, they're going
• 25:18
  Speaker 8: to be disturbed in your immune apparatus as well. I mean,
• 25:22
  Speaker 8: you don't know how to say no, which is a
• 25:24
  Speaker 8: boundary defense. Your immune system gets confused as well. Now
• 25:28
  Speaker 8: that may sound radical to a lot of people who
• 25:31
  Speaker 8: are not familiar with what I'm talking about. Certainly most
• 25:34
  Speaker 8: of my fellow physicians wouldn't know what the heck I
• 25:37
  Speaker 8: was talking about. That's not their fault, and it's not
• 25:40
  Speaker 8: because I'm not talking science. I am talking science. It's
• 25:43
  Speaker 8: just that the science of mind body unity is still
• 25:46
  Speaker 8: not taught in most medical schools. The doctors learned purely
• 25:50
  Speaker 8: the physiological fighter things, but not the unity of mind and.
• 25:54
  Speaker 4: Body right, which is a much more holistic approach to everything.
• 25:57
  Speaker 4: What do you think the correlation is, Well, I think
• 26:00
  Speaker 4: I know the answer to this. But between you know,
• 26:02
  Speaker 4: trauma losing like a family member. My brother died when
• 26:05
  Speaker 4: we were young, and my sister was diagnosed with lupus
• 26:09
  Speaker 4: like two and a half years later. My mother was
• 26:10
  Speaker 4: diagnosed with cancer two and a half years later, exactly
• 26:13
  Speaker 4: at the same time, and that's when we started to
• 26:16
  Speaker 4: learn more about what trauma does.
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: And how it can cause disease. Can you speak to
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: that a little bit.
• 26:21
  Speaker 3: First of all, it's striking.
• 26:24
  Speaker 8: How many families are similar to yours, where a whole
• 26:27
  Speaker 8: lot of supposedly unrelated diseases show up, But they're not
• 26:31
  Speaker 8: unrelated if you understand that trauma is at the basis
• 26:34
  Speaker 8: of them. And that's the point I keep making in
• 26:37
  Speaker 8: the book The Myth of Normal. But on my computer
• 26:41
  Speaker 8: I prepared this, I could go show you a photograph
• 26:44
  Speaker 8: of a young woman who I met four years ago
• 26:46
  Speaker 8: in Britain. Her face was covered with the red rash,
• 26:50
  Speaker 8: a butterfly looking rash, and her fingers were white as chalk.
• 26:55
  Speaker 8: She had lupas and her fingers were white because they've
• 26:58
  Speaker 8: been deprived of blood supply. The arteries had narrowed. She
• 27:02
  Speaker 8: came to a lecture I gave in London four years
• 27:04
  Speaker 8: ago on when the body says no and a connection
• 27:06
  Speaker 8: between stretch, trauma and autom disease light Lupas's. I could
• 27:11
  Speaker 8: show the photographs now. Her face is totally normal looking,
• 27:14
  Speaker 8: her fingers are pink as anything. She's got no disease
• 27:18
  Speaker 8: and she's on no medication. Why Because she learned how
• 27:21
  Speaker 8: to say no, She learned start how to start looking
• 27:24
  Speaker 8: after herself. She learned to stand up for herself, not
• 27:27
  Speaker 8: to live her life to please other people, but to
• 27:30
  Speaker 8: get to know her real self that she got disconnected
• 27:34
  Speaker 8: from long ago in childhood. And she's healthy as anything,
• 27:38
  Speaker 8: And it's not an unusual story. So what happened in
• 27:42
  Speaker 8: your family is your sister, I bet it is one
• 27:46
  Speaker 8: of these personalities that took on the emotional needs of
• 27:49
  Speaker 8: others and ignored her own. Probably didn't know how to
• 27:52
  Speaker 8: express anger in any kind of a healthy way, Probably
• 27:55
  Speaker 8: had no idea how to say no. Probably that goes
• 27:58
  Speaker 8: back to your childhoods and your childhood we should took
• 28:01
  Speaker 8: on a certain role in the family. Probably there was
• 28:05
  Speaker 8: a lot of stress in your family of origin, and
• 28:07
  Speaker 8: you guys are small, So all these different diseases or
• 28:11
  Speaker 8: manifestations of trauma and disconnection from the south.
• 28:15
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I would say the two people in my family,
• 28:17
  Speaker 4: my mother and my sister, had the quietest, the biggest
• 28:20
  Speaker 4: people pleasers in our family. I certainly haven't been a
• 28:23
  Speaker 4: people pleaser for a long time, even though I still
• 28:25
  Speaker 4: continue to do things I don't feel like doing. But yes,
• 28:28
  Speaker 4: and how scientifically is that measured? Is there a measure
• 28:31
  Speaker 4: for something like that, because, as you're saying, it's kind
• 28:33
  Speaker 4: of almost nascent in medicine for most doctors to even
• 28:38
  Speaker 4: take the mind body connection seriously, So how does one
• 28:42
  Speaker 4: measure that?
• 28:43
  Speaker 8: But Chelsea, that's so weird is that none of these
• 28:46
  Speaker 8: ideas on you. Jean Mattan Charcot, a French neurologist to
• 28:51
  Speaker 8: first describe multiple sclerosis, said that this disease caused by stress.
• 28:57
  Speaker 8: A great Canadian, American, British position. Sir William Mosler said
• 29:01
  Speaker 8: the same thing about women the elite writers in eighteen ninety.
• 29:05
  Speaker 8: In nineteen thirty nine, there was a very famous lecture
• 29:08
  Speaker 8: given at Harvard University by a doctor who's still revered
• 29:13
  Speaker 8: at Harvard, and this lecture was published in the Journal
• 29:16
  Speaker 8: of the Medical American Medical Association, where he said that
• 29:19
  Speaker 8: emotional factors are as important in the causation of illness
• 29:23
  Speaker 8: as physical ones, and they have to be at least
• 29:25
  Speaker 8: as important in treatment. And this article is published in
• 29:29
  Speaker 8: Drama Journal of the American Medical Association in nineteen forty
• 29:34
  Speaker 8: And to this day, even his member's name, they don't
• 29:37
  Speaker 8: remember what he taught.
• 29:38
  Speaker 3: They don't teach what he talked.
• 29:40
  Speaker 8: Now, in a decade since this famous physician at Harvard
• 29:45
  Speaker 8: made that statement, we've had eighty years of research showing
• 29:49
  Speaker 8: that it's not that the emotional system in the brain
• 29:52
  Speaker 8: is connected to the nervous system or to the immune system.
• 29:56
  Speaker 3: They're not connected.
• 29:57
  Speaker 8: They're the same system like people who and to look
• 30:00
  Speaker 8: after people with Alzheimer's who tend to be women. By
• 30:04
  Speaker 8: the way, the caregivers, their chromosomes suffer, their immune system
• 30:09
  Speaker 8: is diminished, the more likely to get colds.
• 30:11
  Speaker 3: If they get a cold, it's all lasts longer if
• 30:14
  Speaker 3: you wound them on the skin, as the test that
• 30:17
  Speaker 3: wound will take longer to heal. So the emotional stress
• 30:20
  Speaker 3: of caregiving actually diminishes immunity.
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: Okay, well, on that note, we're going to take a
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: quick break. We'll be right back, and we're going to
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: take some callers and we're back.
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: We're back.
• 30:35
  Speaker 6: So our first color today is Mina. Dear Chelsea, She says,
• 30:40
  Speaker 6: a few years ago, my anxiety started taking a toll
• 30:43
  Speaker 6: on my relationship and my physical health. After hearing your
• 30:46
  Speaker 6: experience with doctor Dan, which is Chelsea's therapist, Dan Seagull.
• 30:51
  Speaker 3: Oh the therapist. Oh yes, yes, we're good friends.
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: Then I oh good. Good to know.
• 30:57
  Speaker 8: As a matter of fact, about five weeks ago, going
• 31:00
  Speaker 8: through a very difficult time and guess what I call it?
• 31:02
  Speaker 6: Oh wow, well perfect, Mina says, I have embarked on
• 31:09
  Speaker 6: EMDR therapy for what my therapist calls complex trauma, and
• 31:14
  Speaker 6: I've been facing things I never thought I would have
• 31:16
  Speaker 6: to relive so that I can process them in a
• 31:19
  Speaker 6: healthy way. That being said, I still really struggle with
• 31:22
  Speaker 6: mind body connection. Unless I engage four out of my
• 31:25
  Speaker 6: five senses, I simply cannot shut my brain off. So essentially,
• 31:30
  Speaker 6: unless I'm listening to exotic flute music while submerged in
• 31:34
  Speaker 6: an ice bath with a eucalyptus leaf under my nose,
• 31:37
  Speaker 6: It's impossible for me to meditate. Do you have any
• 31:40
  Speaker 6: suggestions on forms of meditation or other therapies that engage
• 31:44
  Speaker 6: several senses at once, or any other tactics Just listening
• 31:48
  Speaker 6: to something doesn't cut it for me. Thank you for everything, Mina.
• 31:52
  Speaker 7: Hi, Mina, Hi Chelsea.
• 31:54
  Speaker 3: Hi.
• 31:54
  Speaker 4: Our special guest today is Gobormate. So I think you
• 31:57
  Speaker 4: are going to be in good hands.
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: Oh oh are you so excited? Look at that face?
• 32:02
  Speaker 7: Oh yeah, I'm yeah wow, okay, okay, yeah, okay.
• 32:09
  Speaker 8: Well hi, Hi, let me just go back to the
• 32:11
  Speaker 8: original statement that the anxiety was hard on your relationship.
• 32:15
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 32:16
  Speaker 9: So I wrote this a couple of months ago, and
• 32:19
  Speaker 9: since I have written through to Kelsy and Catherine, I've
• 32:23
  Speaker 9: started EMDR, Yeah, which has been amazing and incredibly helpful.
• 32:31
  Speaker 9: I've been in therapy for a while, but the EMDR
• 32:33
  Speaker 9: has also been quite difficult, to be.
• 32:37
  Speaker 3: Honest, Yeah, what was difficult about it?
• 32:40
  Speaker 9: Honestly, it resurfaced a lot of trauma that I had
• 32:44
  Speaker 9: about ten or twelve years ago that I had not
• 32:47
  Speaker 9: I mean, I knew was there, but it hadn't really
• 32:50
  Speaker 9: come up for me until I sort of want in
• 32:53
  Speaker 9: this deep dive. The first couple of times I did
• 32:57
  Speaker 9: the reprocessing, I didn't actually notice anything, to be honest,
• 33:01
  Speaker 9: I sort of felt a bit like nothing was happening.
• 33:05
  Speaker 9: And then I did it a few more times and
• 33:08
  Speaker 9: I felt extremely uncomfortable and I didn't sleep well, and
• 33:12
  Speaker 9: I started having very vivid dreams and a lot of anxiety.
• 33:16
  Speaker 3: All right, And did you tell you a therapist then?
• 33:19
  Speaker 7: Yeah, yeah, she's she's aware.
• 33:21
  Speaker 3: And when you told you a therapist what happened, she
• 33:23
  Speaker 3: said that.
• 33:24
  Speaker 7: It was completely normal and part of the process.
• 33:27
  Speaker 3: And did you want to continue with that process?
• 33:29
  Speaker 7: I have continued.
• 33:30
  Speaker 8: Yes, is that because you wanted to continue with it. Yes,
• 33:34
  Speaker 8: can you check in with yourself right now? So what's
• 33:39
  Speaker 8: happening for you at the present moment?
• 33:41
  Speaker 7: A little bit of a pit in the base of
• 33:43
  Speaker 7: my stomach.
• 33:45
  Speaker 3: Tell me what that feels like? Is that? Okay?
• 33:47
  Speaker 9: If I ask you that, Yeah, it's similar to Actually
• 33:50
  Speaker 9: it's similar to when I actually do amdr and my
• 33:54
  Speaker 9: therapist ask me. She goes, how are you feeling after
• 33:58
  Speaker 9: or during? And I always say, oh, I have a
• 33:59
  Speaker 9: bit of a like a little pit in my stomach
• 34:02
  Speaker 9: and it feels really uncomfortable.
• 34:06
  Speaker 8: Okay, so this is a discomfort there. Yeah, can you
• 34:09
  Speaker 8: put your attention on that for a moment? Half familiar?
• 34:13
  Speaker 3: Is it to you? Is it you? Is it old?
• 34:15
  Speaker 5: Very?
• 34:16
  Speaker 3: Is it very? Halfway?
• 34:17
  Speaker 7: Does it go back my whole life?
• 34:20
  Speaker 3: Okay?
• 34:21
  Speaker 8: That means they have some difficult news for you. Okay, yeah,
• 34:24
  Speaker 8: but it's intended to be helpful. Yeah, your trauma didn't
• 34:28
  Speaker 8: start kind of twelve years.
• 34:29
  Speaker 3: Ago, No, I know, it goes way back.
• 34:36
  Speaker 8: Yeah, Okay, Now, so that's the first point. Okay, an
• 34:42
  Speaker 8: your therapy, have you dealt with that long ago stuff
• 34:45
  Speaker 8: or not.
• 34:46
  Speaker 9: We've done exercises where it's what's the strongest memory and
• 34:50
  Speaker 9: what's the earliest memory. And then when I go into
• 34:53
  Speaker 9: the earliest memory, I do the reprocessing.
• 34:55
  Speaker 3: So hawway have you gone back like four years old?
• 34:59
  Speaker 3: Four years old? So it does go back a long way.
• 35:01
  Speaker 7: Yeah.
• 35:02
  Speaker 8: First of all, what I'm hearing is you've had some
• 35:05
  Speaker 8: traumas in childhood that you're still working on right now.
• 35:08
  Speaker 9: Yeah.
• 35:08
  Speaker 8: That's sometimes when you do the NDR or even talk
• 35:11
  Speaker 8: about it, but somebody like me, it brings up these
• 35:14
  Speaker 8: physical feelings that are so familiar to you. Yeah, okay,
• 35:18
  Speaker 8: and that you know, I agree with your therapist. I
• 35:20
  Speaker 8: mean that's going to happen. The method I'd recommend for
• 35:23
  Speaker 8: you and actually probably to talk to you about this
• 35:26
  Speaker 8: is Dan Seagull's wheel overweareness so familiar with that one,
• 35:30
  Speaker 8: I'm not known. It's very simple, a very easy to
• 35:34
  Speaker 8: learn mindful awareness.
• 35:35
  Speaker 3: Technique, but I think it's way effective because it allows
• 35:38
  Speaker 3: you to identify your calm center even as you're having
• 35:43
  Speaker 3: these experiences, You're going to find that sort of grounded
• 35:47
  Speaker 3: center in the middle of it all that will help
• 35:48
  Speaker 3: you get through it.
• 35:49
  Speaker 7: Yeah.
• 35:50
  Speaker 9: So I get like intense panic, really really intense.
• 35:54
  Speaker 3: Panic, and what happens when you get into panic.
• 35:56
  Speaker 7: I basically just disassociate.
• 35:59
  Speaker 3: But what happens to you high to ventilate, the.
• 36:01
  Speaker 9: Shape hyperventilate, I get nauseous, cold sweats, I can't see straight.
• 36:07
  Speaker 7: It's a full, just full pedic attack.
• 36:10
  Speaker 3: Okay, well, look here's what I have to tell you.
• 36:12
  Speaker 8: I cannot, in this short conversation in the context of
• 36:16
  Speaker 8: our podcast, really help you as much as i'd want to.
• 36:19
  Speaker 8: I'd really have to spend time with you, being your presence,
• 36:23
  Speaker 8: talk about some of your stuff, have you experience whatever
• 36:27
  Speaker 8: you're going through, be there with you, and then I
• 36:30
  Speaker 8: could tell you how it would help you. In this case,
• 36:34
  Speaker 8: you're dealing with a tough problem. But sounds like you've
• 36:36
  Speaker 8: got some good support. So that's the good news. You
• 36:38
  Speaker 8: have good support professionally, and you have good support sounds
• 36:43
  Speaker 8: like personally. I cannot solve the problem for you in
• 36:45
  Speaker 8: the short I wish I could.
• 36:47
  Speaker 4: No, of course not, but I want to jump in
• 36:49
  Speaker 4: and just say a couple of things to you. First
• 36:51
  Speaker 4: of all, the Wheel of Awareness is a great reference,
• 36:53
  Speaker 4: and this is Dan Siegel. He's got tons of books
• 36:55
  Speaker 4: that he's written as well.
• 36:57
  Speaker 7: It's basically can wait, Chelsea.
• 36:58
  Speaker 9: Dan's you're a therapist, right, yeah, yeah, yeah, so you
• 37:01
  Speaker 9: guys are why I went into therapy.
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: Oh great, love it, love it.
• 37:05
  Speaker 4: So it's basically your center, and you are spokes on
• 37:08
  Speaker 4: a wheel, and everything that's coming out of you is
• 37:11
  Speaker 4: kind of your wheel of awareness.
• 37:12
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 37:13
  Speaker 4: And it's almost like if you're a plane and you're
• 37:15
  Speaker 4: flying over yourself the center of your gravity, you're looking
• 37:20
  Speaker 4: down like your emotions are this flying over and this
• 37:24
  Speaker 4: is your center. So anything that's happening within you you
• 37:27
  Speaker 4: can be an observer of instead of being in reaction
• 37:31
  Speaker 4: to it. Right, You don't need to necessarily because when
• 37:34
  Speaker 4: you are having these panic attacks, I suspect it's because
• 37:37
  Speaker 4: you're trying to escape the feeling that you're having.
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, right, that pit in your stomach.
• 37:42
  Speaker 7: Yeah, it's almost like anxiety about having anxiety exactly.
• 37:46
  Speaker 4: So this is something that is going to be very
• 37:48
  Speaker 4: helpful to you because it was very helpful to me.
• 37:51
  Speaker 4: When you're having such a negative feeling or a feeling
• 37:54
  Speaker 4: that is bringing you to a place that you don't
• 37:56
  Speaker 4: want to recall, you have the power to sit with
• 37:59
  Speaker 4: it instead of trying to push it away and saying
• 38:02
  Speaker 4: I don't want to think about this.
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: I don't want to think about it.
• 38:04
  Speaker 4: You take it in and feel it holy and that
• 38:08
  Speaker 4: is the way for it to move through your body
• 38:10
  Speaker 4: and also your brain without sending you into a flurry
• 38:14
  Speaker 4: and sending you into a panic attack.
• 38:16
  Speaker 9: And it is a practice, so you get these feelings
• 38:19
  Speaker 9: that scares me so much, the idea of sitting with it,
• 38:22
  Speaker 9: I know.
• 38:22
  Speaker 1: But this is what's going to set you free from
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: panic attacks.
• 38:25
  Speaker 8: But you know what, you can also listen to Dan
• 38:27
  Speaker 8: guiding you through it, so you're not actually as alone
• 38:30
  Speaker 8: as you think you are. Yes, there's the one final
• 38:32
  Speaker 8: thing I want to say to you. There's nothing wrong
• 38:35
  Speaker 8: with you. Okay, you don't have a mental illness. What
• 38:39
  Speaker 8: you've got is a perfectly normal response to something. I'm
• 38:43
  Speaker 8: normal that happened to you.
• 38:45
  Speaker 7: That's really comforting to hear because nobody's phrase.
• 38:49
  Speaker 3: It like that.
• 38:50
  Speaker 8: Whatever the circumstances were. Whereas the four year old you
• 38:55
  Speaker 8: first developed this anxiety, there's two things that can tell
• 38:59
  Speaker 8: you you were being hurt and there was nobody there
• 39:02
  Speaker 8: to listen to you, to hear you, and to hold you. Yeah,
• 39:06
  Speaker 8: and our brains, you know what, Our brains have a
• 39:10
  Speaker 8: circuit in it for panic. We actually have a panic circuit.
• 39:14
  Speaker 8: Because if an infant is left alone and they're in
• 39:17
  Speaker 8: danger or they're lonely, they should panic. And when they panic,
• 39:21
  Speaker 8: what did they do? They scream for help? And when
• 39:24
  Speaker 8: they scream for help, what should happen? The adults should
• 39:27
  Speaker 8: come running. Yeah, in your case, nobody came running exactly. Yeah,
• 39:33
  Speaker 8: you were being hurt and.
• 39:35
  Speaker 3: There was nobody there to help.
• 39:37
  Speaker 8: Your panic is a perfectly normal human response to something
• 39:41
  Speaker 8: abnormal that never should have happened, and if it did happen,
• 39:45
  Speaker 8: you never should have been alone with it.
• 39:48
  Speaker 3: So we had to just really rest in the idea
• 39:51
  Speaker 3: that there's nothing wrong with you. That it's uncomfortable, it's scary,
• 39:55
  Speaker 3: but there's nothing.
• 39:55
  Speaker 4: Wrong with you that is really comforting to hear and
• 39:58
  Speaker 4: to give yourself the time I'm to deal with those
• 40:01
  Speaker 4: difficult emotions. I know it's said, like you just said,
• 40:04
  Speaker 4: it sounds so scary, but if you sit with yourself,
• 40:07
  Speaker 4: it's just a feeling and it will pass as long
• 40:10
  Speaker 4: as and as soon as you resist it, it persists.
• 40:13
  Speaker 4: Right Like we know that as soon as you say no,
• 40:15
  Speaker 4: I don't want to feel this way, then that's when
• 40:17
  Speaker 4: you start to scramble. That's when you start to panic.
• 40:19
  Speaker 4: If you allow it to sit with you and you
• 40:21
  Speaker 4: sit there and let it work its way through your body,
• 40:25
  Speaker 4: as scary as that may be, it most likely won't
• 40:28
  Speaker 4: result in the way it has been resulting for you.
• 40:31
  Speaker 9: That's what's so crazy, is like there are times where
• 40:33
  Speaker 9: I'll like, let it sit through and I'll be like,
• 40:35
  Speaker 9: oh wow, look at that. It passed and I was
• 40:37
  Speaker 9: totally fine. And then there are other times where I'm like,
• 40:41
  Speaker 9: I'm going to die from this feeling like that. That's overwhelming.
• 40:46
  Speaker 3: Yeah. And whenever you have that thought and then and
• 40:49
  Speaker 3: may have that pension in you, what you're actually having
• 40:53
  Speaker 3: is a memory of childhood. Yeah, that's what's happening. Might
• 40:57
  Speaker 3: want to remind yourself if you can. I'm having a
• 40:59
  Speaker 3: memory right now. When I say a memory, I mean
• 41:02
  Speaker 3: a body memory.
• 41:04
  Speaker 7: Yeah, And just to remember like I'm an adult and.
• 41:07
  Speaker 4: You're saying exactly, yeah, that's not happening to you anymore.
• 41:13
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 41:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And try not to resist it, like you know
• 41:16
  Speaker 1: what I mean.
• 41:17
  Speaker 4: I know it's you don't want it, but when it
• 41:18
  Speaker 4: comes to go, okay, try a different exercise, try and
• 41:22
  Speaker 4: bring it in and say okay.
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: Because you've experienced it before, and it will pass.
• 41:26
  Speaker 4: Everything passes, and the more control you gain over it,
• 41:30
  Speaker 4: the more you minimize this happening to you.
• 41:33
  Speaker 8: There's a huge difference, not only that you're an adult
• 41:36
  Speaker 8: and you were a child then, but then you had
• 41:38
  Speaker 8: no opportunity to ask for help and all you do. Yeah,
• 41:42
  Speaker 8: so it'll never be as bad as it was then.
• 41:45
  Speaker 5: Okay, yeah, well, thank you, Thank you so so much,
• 41:51
  Speaker 5: seriously amazing, You're welcome, good luck to you. Thank you
• 41:56
  Speaker 5: guys so much. Thanks me, and take care, take care,
• 42:00
  Speaker 5: bye bye bye.
• 42:02
  Speaker 6: I love that advice you gave when I had told
• 42:05
  Speaker 6: Chelsea beforehand, I had done some work on somatic pain therapy,
• 42:09
  Speaker 6: and a lot of it was what's the feeling you're feeling,
• 42:13
  Speaker 6: focusing on it, And there is something wild about when
• 42:16
  Speaker 6: you focus on the pain, it feels different. It diminishes,
• 42:20
  Speaker 6: whether that's emotional pain, whether that's physical pain. But I
• 42:23
  Speaker 6: also think for Mina, the fact that she's having this
• 42:26
  Speaker 6: anger and this anxiety come up that she's been repressing
• 42:29
  Speaker 6: for so long, like that's the work being done.
• 42:32
  Speaker 7: You know.
• 42:33
  Speaker 6: It's messy and it's sticky, and it affects those around
• 42:35
  Speaker 6: us while we're going through it. But I think she's
• 42:38
  Speaker 6: really well on her way to healing.
• 42:41
  Speaker 8: Look, exactly what I say to people often is you
• 42:45
  Speaker 8: can have two kinds of pain. You can have the
• 42:48
  Speaker 8: pain of trying to escape into denial, into addictions, into
• 42:54
  Speaker 8: addictions they're all about escaping pain, all of them, or
• 42:57
  Speaker 8: into relationships, or into mindless watching television or whatever you can.
• 43:04
  Speaker 8: You can have and then have the.
• 43:06
  Speaker 3: Consequences of those behaviors of eating or whatever, you know,
• 43:09
  Speaker 3: Or you can have the pain of discovering the truth.
• 43:12
  Speaker 8: You may not have a choice of whether you're gonna
• 43:14
  Speaker 8: have a pain or that. It's a question of which
• 43:16
  Speaker 8: pain are you gonna do you want? Do you want
• 43:18
  Speaker 8: the pain that's going to help you grow, or do
• 43:20
  Speaker 8: you want the pain that's going to keep you stuck?
• 43:23
  Speaker 8: And one of one of the toxicity, one of the
• 43:27
  Speaker 8: poisonous aspects as I concerned of this culture. It's it's
• 43:32
  Speaker 8: so much about escaping pain rather than dealing with the
• 43:34
  Speaker 8: sources of it.
• 43:36
  Speaker 4: It's funny when you talk about that mindlessly watching TV.
• 43:38
  Speaker 4: You know a lot of people don't think about that.
• 43:40
  Speaker 4: They think, oh, you're relaxing. You know, I've been I've
• 43:42
  Speaker 4: done that so many times where I just it's such
• 43:45
  Speaker 4: an escapism, I mean, and it's just like any other addiction.
• 43:49
  Speaker 4: So yeah, mindlessly watching TV isn't always mindlessly watching TV.
• 43:54
  Speaker 3: And when you actually look at the content of it,
• 43:58
  Speaker 3: so much of it so bad for people, you know,
• 44:01
  Speaker 3: like the violence they watch or the degraded relationships they're ingesting,
• 44:08
  Speaker 3: some really toxic stuff.
• 44:10
  Speaker 6: Yeah, and they say, you know, our brains can't tell
• 44:12
  Speaker 6: the difference between watching something violent on TV and when
• 44:15
  Speaker 6: it's happening to us. You know, our brains aren't that
• 44:18
  Speaker 6: that evolved. We experience that stress from whatever we're watching
• 44:22
  Speaker 6: on television.
• 44:23
  Speaker 8: By the way, I'm not saying people should never watch TV,
• 44:26
  Speaker 8: nor is it always about to escape, But if you're
• 44:28
  Speaker 8: gonna do it, don't do it mindlessly. Right right, I'm
• 44:33
  Speaker 8: gonna think half an hour, an hour, an hour, I'm
• 44:35
  Speaker 8: totally veg ou so vegio consciously.
• 44:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 44:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like eating, right, you got to eat mindfully.
• 44:48
  Speaker 6: Well, Marion says, this is really a question about dealing
• 44:53
  Speaker 6: with trauma as it's happening. I'm forty one and I
• 44:56
  Speaker 6: have twin girls who are four and a son who's three,
• 44:59
  Speaker 6: practice triplets. I just found out in February that my
• 45:03
  Speaker 6: husband has had a girlfriend, and I've begun the divorce process.
• 45:07
  Speaker 6: He was my best friend and even though things were hard,
• 45:09
  Speaker 6: sometimes I was still so in love with him. But
• 45:12
  Speaker 6: cheating was my limit and he knew it. I've been
• 45:15
  Speaker 6: reading the book you so highly recommend, Letting Go, which
• 45:17
  Speaker 6: is when we talk about a lot on the podcast here,
• 45:20
  Speaker 6: and I'm applying the lessons in other areas of my
• 45:22
  Speaker 6: life that I was holding on to too tightly. And
• 45:25
  Speaker 6: I like the lightness that brings to me. But how
• 45:28
  Speaker 6: can I get through a custody battle and still wish
• 45:31
  Speaker 6: him well and send him love? Or must I let
• 45:34
  Speaker 6: this horrible battle go? I understand how to let go
• 45:37
  Speaker 6: of things that are in the rear view mirror, but
• 45:40
  Speaker 6: how do you let go of something when it's something
• 45:43
  Speaker 6: you can't let go of that you're still in the
• 45:45
  Speaker 6: middle of.
• 45:46
  Speaker 2: Mirian.
• 45:48
  Speaker 3: Well, a bunch of things come up for me.
• 45:50
  Speaker 8: First of all, most people when they're being light too,
• 45:54
  Speaker 8: they get some sense of something is not quite right.
• 45:57
  Speaker 8: This person who I would ask you first, well, before
• 46:01
  Speaker 8: you found out about the affair, do you have any
• 46:03
  Speaker 8: sense that maybe things go are quite way with this guy?
• 46:06
  Speaker 8: Is there some gut feeling that you ignored in yourself.
• 46:09
  Speaker 8: Most of the time I asked that question, I don't
• 46:11
  Speaker 8: know what her answer would be, but most of the
• 46:13
  Speaker 8: time I asked that question, people say, yeah, I had
• 46:16
  Speaker 8: the gut thing, but I ignored it. So the betrayal
• 46:20
  Speaker 8: wasn't just a partner betraying you. It's also you betraying yourself,
• 46:26
  Speaker 8: not that you meant to. Again, I had to do
• 46:29
  Speaker 8: with child and conditioning, and unfortunately this scenario I've seen
• 46:35
  Speaker 8: too often that small kids come into the family and
• 46:39
  Speaker 8: then the big kid can't stand it because mommy and
• 46:42
  Speaker 8: all of suddenly isn't available, so he goes in he
• 46:45
  Speaker 8: an affair. Because men very often relate to women like
• 46:49
  Speaker 8: surrogate mothers as well as partners. So I don't know
• 46:52
  Speaker 8: if that's happened here. But here's the point. You probably
• 46:56
  Speaker 8: didn't pay attention. Not your fault, it's your program, but
• 47:01
  Speaker 8: not pay attention. So when you say you want to
• 47:03
  Speaker 8: send them in love and so on, why the hell
• 47:05
  Speaker 8: do you want to do that. I mean, if love
• 47:07
  Speaker 8: comes up for you, if forgiveness till letting go genuinely
• 47:11
  Speaker 8: come up for you, I'm.
• 47:12
  Speaker 3: Very happy for you. You be a fear for it.
• 47:15
  Speaker 3: But don't force yourself, don't put a trip on yourself.
• 47:20
  Speaker 8: This guy was dishonest with you when you had small
• 47:23
  Speaker 8: children to look after, when you most needed support, when
• 47:27
  Speaker 8: you most needed somebody to be there for you. He
• 47:31
  Speaker 8: decided that this is the moment that he's going to
• 47:34
  Speaker 8: go and please his own desires. How do you feel
• 47:36
  Speaker 8: about that? I hope there's anger for you there. That's
• 47:40
  Speaker 8: the healthy response. I'm not saying you should get stuck
• 47:42
  Speaker 8: in the anger, but if it's there, for God's sake,
• 47:46
  Speaker 8: don't ignore it. And furthermore, it's going to be a
• 47:49
  Speaker 8: custody battle, which is really tough on you, and if
• 47:54
  Speaker 8: it curse to the courts.
• 47:55
  Speaker 3: I tell you what's going to happen in the course.
• 47:57
  Speaker 3: His lawyer is going to try and make you look
• 48:00
  Speaker 3: like an incompetent mother, because that's what lawyers do. Not
• 48:03
  Speaker 3: Maybe it'll be resolved amicably, Maybe they'll mediation. I hope so.
• 48:09
  Speaker 8: But in so far as there's a custody battle, you
• 48:12
  Speaker 8: really have to look at to your own integrity, your
• 48:14
  Speaker 8: own physical and emotion integrity, look at to yourn emotions.
• 48:17
  Speaker 8: Don't make it your job to send him love and
• 48:21
  Speaker 8: all that kind of stuff. If you get to that
• 48:24
  Speaker 8: point by all means, but right now, put the attention
• 48:29
  Speaker 8: on taking care of yourself and allowing your stuff to
• 48:32
  Speaker 8: feel whatever is there.
• 48:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I would agree.
• 48:36
  Speaker 4: I would say that that book Letting Go by David
• 48:38
  Speaker 4: Hawkins is good for I mean, it's very hard to
• 48:41
  Speaker 4: apply that book into a situation where you are actively
• 48:45
  Speaker 4: in combat with somebody.
• 48:47
  Speaker 1: I would echo everything that.
• 48:48
  Speaker 4: A boor said, and especially sometimes you have to fight,
• 48:52
  Speaker 4: you know what I mean, to get custody of your
• 48:55
  Speaker 4: children or to do what's right in a situation, and
• 48:58
  Speaker 4: while you're in it, I think the biggest gift you
• 49:01
  Speaker 4: can give yourself is to look at your behavior, you know,
• 49:03
  Speaker 4: from a level of consciousness, rather than being mired in
• 49:06
  Speaker 4: your own behavior and your reactivity, and understand when it's
• 49:10
  Speaker 4: necessary for you to react or when it's not. And
• 49:13
  Speaker 4: so just kind of it's almost like you're watching over yourself,
• 49:16
  Speaker 4: you know, to be very mindful of how you're using
• 49:20
  Speaker 4: that energy and what the best use of your time
• 49:22
  Speaker 4: within this argument and this divorce and this custody battle is.
• 49:27
  Speaker 4: And then once it's over, then you can really work
• 49:31
  Speaker 4: on forgiveness and sending love. And I think that is
• 49:34
  Speaker 4: a that's something that you cannot push and like fast forward,
• 49:37
  Speaker 4: you have to really wait until everything is resolved and
• 49:40
  Speaker 4: you're in a position where it's in your past, because
• 49:42
  Speaker 4: it's not yet in your past. And I think that
• 49:46
  Speaker 4: book is really about letting go of your past, not
• 49:49
  Speaker 4: the present necessarily of the past. So while they're great tools,
• 49:53
  Speaker 4: don't pressure yourself into applying them in a situation like this,
• 49:57
  Speaker 4: because you need your wits about you and.
• 49:59
  Speaker 2: You're going to your feelings while you're going through this.
• 50:01
  Speaker 4: Absolutely, you don't want to deny yourself what's happening to
• 50:04
  Speaker 4: you right now or what's happening with you right now.
• 50:07
  Speaker 4: But I wish you well in that and I'm glad
• 50:09
  Speaker 4: that you put your foot down and kicked them out
• 50:11
  Speaker 4: of the house and are starting divorce proceedings because you
• 50:14
  Speaker 4: don't deserve that. Okay, well, that's our episode today. This
• 50:19
  Speaker 4: is serious business with Yukabora. Thank you for imparting us
• 50:23
  Speaker 4: with your wisdom.
• 50:24
  Speaker 3: My pleasure. Thank you, thanks for having me.
• 50:26
  Speaker 1: Yes, I'll see you in Canada. Okay, Okay, take care,
• 50:31
  Speaker 1: thank you so much, so much.
• 50:32
  Speaker 2: Pake sure, bye bye bye bye.
• 50:35
  Speaker 1: Okay, guys, we have added more shows to my Little
• 50:38
  Speaker 1: Big Bitch Tour.
• 50:39
  Speaker 4: I added another second show in Toronto, so I have
• 50:41
  Speaker 4: two shows in Toronto now to December seventh, December eighth,
• 50:45
  Speaker 4: December ninth, I'm in Ottawa and two new shows at
• 50:48
  Speaker 4: December fifteenth. On a Friday, We're doing a seven thirty
• 50:52
  Speaker 4: and ten pm show with Kevin Hart and Friends that's
• 50:55
  Speaker 4: in Thackerville, Oklahoma. And all my other shows that you
• 50:59
  Speaker 4: can buy tickets at Chelseahandler dot com. I'm starting my
• 51:02
  Speaker 4: tour backup on September twenty ninth in New York City
• 51:06
  Speaker 4: at the Beacon, which is sold out, but the next
• 51:08
  Speaker 4: night there are tickets available September thirtieth at the Beacon,
• 51:11
  Speaker 4: So for all fall dates, you can go to Chelseamandler
• 51:13
  Speaker 4: dot com for tickets.
• 51:14
  Speaker 2: And you'll see me.
• 51:16
  Speaker 6: If you'd like advice from Chelsea, shoot us an email
• 51:18
  Speaker 6: at Dear Chelsea podcast at gmail dot com and be
• 51:21
  Speaker 6: sure to include your phone number. Dear Chelsea is edited
• 51:24
  Speaker 6: and engineered by Brad Dickert executive producer Catherine Law and
• 51:28
  Speaker 6: be sure to check out our merch at Chelseahandler dot
• 51:31
  Speaker 6: com