Latest / Rusty's Garage / The Motorsport Brief - Real Design Group’s Vaughan Cartwright

Transcript

The Motorsport Brief - Real Design Group’s Vaughan Cartwright · Rusty's Garage

• 0:02
  A listener production.
• 0:04
  Being at one with the race car is vital to success.
• 0:08
  Today on the Motorsport Brief, someone from our corner of the globe who is passionate about cutting-edge competitor comfort when they get behind the wheel.
• 0:18
  G'day everyone, Rusty here.
• 0:19
  Welcome to another ep of the Shortcast.
• 0:21
  Bit of an industry flavour to this one, but you'll enjoy it.
• 0:25
  Vaughan Cartwright is standing by in the UK from his real design group HQ.
• 0:30
  Cool story.
• 0:32
  From welding and fabricating, working on the tools around race cars in New Zealand, America, supercars in Australia, and then for decades now in Europe around F1 and much more.
• 0:44
  But...
• 0:44
  It's bespoke seating for racers that he's become renowned for so they can perform at their very best.
• 0:50
  And he's expanded into other sports too, enjoying Olympic success as a part of that.
• 0:56
  Just quickly, there's a couple of other short cars to check out during the break in our garage library, including a debrief on what was an incredible supercar season at Red Bull Amphol Racing with the boss, Jamie Winkup, who also talked about his entry in the race of champions
• 1:14
  That prompted us to, especially with all the news breaking around the big name drivers taking part in that event, to get the man behind the Race of Champions on the podcast.
• 1:25
  Frederick Johnson has been the driving force of Race of Champions since the late 80s.
• 1:30
  There have been some unreal venues they have visited along the way.
• 1:35
  Quite the roll call of drivers from all sorts of disciplines.
• 1:38
  It's coming down under for the first time in 2025, head-to-head racing inside the Olympic Stadium in Sydney.
• 1:45
  That is going to be unreal.
• 1:47
  Right, to our guest from growing up around Greg Murphy, pestering Paul Radisic for a job, faxing Australia and landing a gig with Wayne Gardner Racing with Crompo and WG, before ultimately opening doors...
• 2:01
  in F1.
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  Now, while he worked as a mechanic and fabricator, he's since been fully focused on tailored, bespoke seating making and designing them for 16 years.
• 2:13
  And what he's doing is world class.
• 2:15
  There is hardly anyone that he hasn't worked with, including Brad Pitt.
• 2:22
  More on that shortly.
• 2:23
  G'day Vaughn Cartwright.
• 2:24
  Fantastic to get you on, mate.
• 2:26
  Mega mate, so good to see you Rusty, it's been so long since seeing you in person, but yeah, great to be here with you buddy.
• 2:33
  That's great to get you on the pod.
• 2:34
  Hey, little background for listeners, am I right in saying you're from Hawke's Bay, Greg Murphy Territory, late Ash Ditchbury was from there as well, Dwayne Bewley who raced in Super Tourers among others, how did you get into racing?
• 2:49
  Oh, mate, yes.
• 2:51
  Very proud to be from Hawke's Bay.
• 2:53
  Yeah, like any young Kiwi kid, I just wanted to be an All Black, to be honest.
• 2:57
  That was my dream.
• 2:59
  But unfortunately, a pretty horrible accident fell like 10 metres off a haystack out of my auntie in Uncle's place and smashed up my face pretty bad.
• 3:09
  Um, the upshot from that was after a lot of time in hospital, uh, recovering from that, my, uh, late cousin, uh, Darrell Pallison, um, he just, uh, bombarded me with, with motor racing videos back in the day of VHS tapes from, uh,
• 3:25
  F1 races from Europe and around the world and touring car stuff, and I was hooked, absolutely hooked.
• 3:31
  And from there, at school, high school, at Havlon North High School, became mates with Greg Murphy.
• 3:40
  I think at the time it was because he had the hots for my sister, to be honest.
• 3:43
  I think that was the only reason he was...
• 3:47
  That'll get back.
• 3:49
  Yeah, mate.
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  Yeah.
• 3:50
  Yeah.
• 3:50
  So, yeah, but, yeah, obviously Greg was, at that time, was doing mega well in karting and dragged me out to the Hawke's Bay Kart Club and sold me one of his old karts because he thought I had a bit of a shot.
• 4:03
  And I was hooked, absolutely hooked.
• 4:05
  But, yeah, as you said, himself.
• 4:08
  Ashley Stichbury, great guys, and we were committed, myself and mum and dad, and we were doing it because we loved it, rather than a long-term goal to make a career out of being a racing driver, but I loved the whole atmosphere and setup of motor racing, and
• 4:30
  You know, got my apprenticeship at Havrelock North Auto Corp with Shane Miller and just progressed from there.
• 4:35
  Just Dad took me down to Manfield for a round of the Peter Jackson Series back in the day.
• 4:41
  And I was walking around the pits and saw Paul Radicech and been running over to him.
• 4:46
  And poor guy thought I was actually after his autograph.
• 4:48
  But I actually said to him, look, how do I get a job in motor racing?
• 4:52
  And he said, well, get yourself up to Pukekohe next weekend and we'll see how you get on.
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  And that was the start of it.
• 4:58
  And I was in.
• 5:00
  Amazing.
• 5:01
  So that's the beginning of a career that has taken you all around the world.
• 5:07
  So, I mean, you talked about it, you know, karting and being involved from that perspective, but you've found another way to stay involved and to go to the very highest level of different forms of motorsport.
• 5:18
  Firstly, can I come to what you said there about the...
• 5:21
  The new Next Gen NZ Championship has just launched here, right?
• 5:25
  So the summer series has kind of been reborn, if you will.
• 5:31
  Is it initially for you around that style of racing?
• 5:33
  And I've seen pictures of Formula Holdens and all sorts of things that you started working on the cars for well-known drivers.
• 5:41
  Yeah.
• 5:41
  Yeah, exactly.
• 5:42
  I mean, the New Zealand Series is incredible.
• 5:47
  It's six weeks.
• 5:48
  I think it's still six weeks now.
• 5:49
  You're racing every weekend.
• 5:51
  And I did, I think it was 1991 I started in my first couple of races with Paul Radisic on the Formula Atlantic car, actually, the Reynard.
• 6:02
  Excellent.
• 6:02
  Excellent.
• 6:03
  Yeah.
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  And then from there, he actually put me in touch with Dave McMillan in the US.
• 6:11
  He was looking out for some mechanics to join the team up in the States.
• 6:15
  And amazingly, Paul put my name forward to David and got in touch.
• 6:21
  And then early in 92, I think it was,
• 6:27
  shot off up to the states which you know well mum and dad weren't happy i still hadn't qualified as mechanic then and and um they were like look can you just like get that done first because yeah we want you to have a trade behind you and be qualified and all the rest of it and and i know you just when you're that young and i just saw it as a huge opportunity it was a chance to go to the other side of the world and and
• 6:49
  And at that stage, there was no long-term goal for me, but I just saw it as a huge, amazing opportunity.
• 6:56
  So, yeah, just grabbed it and went up to the States for six months and worked up there and then came back to New Zealand and did Atlantics again with Paul and the Swift.
• 7:06
  and it was supposed to go back to the States.
• 7:08
  That didn't pan out.
• 7:09
  So he ended up doing Group A touring cars with Mark Pitch Motorsport with Paul again and Dick Johnson with one car.
• 7:17
  And the other car was supposed to be Kane Scott and Brett Riley.
• 7:23
  Long story short, had an accident and broke his ankle or something.
• 7:26
  And poor old Pitchy came screaming down from upstairs, yelling and screaming at Karen.
• 7:31
  I was like, who are we going to get in the car?
• 7:33
  And this is a night.
• 7:34
  And this was like three weeks or something before Wellington.
• 7:37
  And I said to Todd Bickett and the other mechanic, I said, oh, we should get Greg Murphy in.
• 7:42
  And he's like, Greg Murphy?
• 7:44
  Who's Greg Murphy?
• 7:46
  Well, words to that effect.
• 7:47
  And so I actually phoned up Kevin because Greg at that stage had just won the Sheld Scholarship Fund for the Rolt for that season.
• 8:00
  And so I phoned up Kevin.
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  I said, look, this is what's happened.
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  So he obviously got in touch with Mark and they worked out a deal and what was incredible and just showed how...
• 8:12
  talented Greg is.
• 8:15
  We put the car together, he came up to Auckland and obviously met Mark and Kane and looked around the car and what have you and then we put on a trailer, drove to Manfield on our way to Wellington.
• 8:29
  So it was Kane, Mark, myself and Todd Bickerton,
• 8:35
  Got to Manfield, came, did some laps.
• 8:38
  Greg jumped in it and straight away he was on it.
• 8:40
  And that was the only testing he got before we went to Wellington.
• 8:43
  And we finished fourth at the street race.
• 8:46
  So good.
• 8:47
  He was reunited with that car not long ago too.
• 8:49
  Great memories for you, mate.
• 8:50
  Yeah, very good.
• 8:52
  Tell me about the stint then from this point.
• 8:55
  I mean, there's time with...
• 8:56
  Kane Scott around Trans Ams by the looks of it and so on.
• 8:59
  But at some point, your wings spreading that you weren't afraid to do with that trip to the US and so on takes you to Australia as well and touring car racing with Wayne Gardner.
• 9:09
  Yeah, another funny story.
• 9:11
  You got back to NZ and, as you quite rightly said, was doing Atlantics and Trans Am at that stage and was keen to...
• 9:20
  To find a full-time career in motorsport, because back in New Zealand, as we said, it was only December through until February-ish, and that was it.
• 9:29
  So I was very fortunate that Shane, back at Havelock North Auto Court, was happy to let me go off and do that, and then come back to working with him again.
• 9:38
  But I really wanted to make it my career.
• 9:43
  Mum at the time was working for an estate agent in Havlock North and I got a copy of Speed Sport magazine, I think it was, from Australia.
• 9:52
  I found the fax number showing my age back at the back there from the organisers.
• 10:00
  I've got Mum to – well, we faxed them a letter asking for every single touring car team's contact addresses.
• 10:07
  And then Mum obviously had been faxed from her work, so she'd gone into work the next day and got a bit of a ripping from the boss because he was just like reams of paper that had spat out of the fax machine of every single –
• 10:21
  outfit in this in Australia but so I I sat down wrote myself uh wrote a letter to every single team um fired them off and I think it was Dick Johnson the Holden Racing team um I think it might have been Gibson Motorsport and WGR were the only four teams that that wrote back to say hey thank you so I wrote back to all four of those saying um yep thanks very much we'll keep in touch
• 10:47
  I then moved, well, my sister and brother-in-law were living in Australia then, so I went over to see them for a bit of a holiday.
• 10:53
  And whilst I was there, Alan Heafy rang up and said, look, where are you?
• 10:58
  Get your ass down to Sydney.
• 11:00
  We've had a guy leave.
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  And you've been the most annoying guy either phoning me or writing to me to keep in touch.
• 11:07
  So you're obviously keen.
• 11:09
  And then I could hear Wally's story in the background saying, ask the bar so that he can weld.
• 11:14
  It's so good.
• 11:15
  That was my interview with WGR.
• 11:18
  So yeah, literally flew down to Sydney, landed on a, I think it was on a Monday or something.
• 11:23
  And then on Wednesday, we flew down to Tasmania for the next round of the touring car championship.
• 11:28
  Hadn't seen the car, nothing, and I was straight away on the tools, number two mechanic on Wayne's car.
• 11:35
  Mega.
• 11:35
  Coca-Cola Commodores, great period of what was the emergence of supercars that we know today.
• 11:41
  And you were there, big mission by WG.
• 11:44
  Krompo was his teammate.
• 11:45
  He's been on the podcast, obviously, before.
• 11:47
  And, you know, legends, as you say, like Wally Story and Alan Heafy, very cool to be around that sort of influence at that age for you.
• 11:55
  Oh, huge, mate.
• 11:55
  I mean, even before that with Liz Laidlaw back in the day with Paul Radisitz, amazing, all of those guys that you ticked off there.
• 12:05
  I was very fortunate to be around those guys that hard operators, tough operators, but they were...
• 12:14
  happy to impart their knowledge and experience if you showed willing to learn.
• 12:19
  And, yeah, obviously did something right back then, but working with Alan, Wally, Wayne and Crompo, just all of them unique characters and just learnt heaps from all of them.
• 12:34
  Wayne is, you know, poor guy, he gets a bit of a ribbing.
• 12:38
  which is very frustrating when you see great sportsmen and women just getting shot down every now and again.
• 12:45
  But the guy was just so, especially in practice and qualifying, like he was pushing, pushing, pushing to try and get the best out of that bucket of bolts back then.
• 12:54
  But as soon as the lights went out, he just got on it and he could wrestle that thing around.
• 12:59
  And Krompo, just such a cool guy, just not only as a racing driver, but his...
• 13:06
  his brain and attitude away from as a racing driver and, you know, on the commercial side of it and business side of it.
• 13:12
  And obviously his commentary is, is second to none.
• 13:14
  He's, he's cool guy.
• 13:17
  Wally story tells a very funny, uh, yarn about rearranging his desk.
• 13:21
  He had a very perfect desk.
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  I'm told at Wayne Gardner racing, and they like moving pens and pencils, which he had in a certain place.
• 13:27
  And he always knew if someone had been there, right.
• 13:29
  Can we move on to some pictures that are over your shoulder?
• 13:33
  Um,
• 13:34
  Because you ultimately go to the UK.
• 13:37
  I love how the kind of school of motor racing here is that you've kept growing and learning along the way from all the stuff, be it US, New Zealand or Australia here.
• 13:46
  Over your shoulder, mate, there are some very cool Formula One pictures.
• 13:50
  Just give people a little snapshot of what you, between BAR and McLaren, you ended up in some great spots at significant moments, didn't you?
• 13:58
  Yeah, and again, I recognise the opportunity.
• 14:02
  Back in Australia, we were obviously a support race at the Australian Grand Prix, and we were at the first Melbourne Grand Prix that year in 1997.
• 14:12
  96, 96.
• 14:14
  96, apologies.
• 14:15
  Yeah, 96.
• 14:17
  So, yeah, we'd gone to 96 and, yeah, we got to 97.
• 14:20
  So it was – and another great Kiwi mechanic, Steve Giles, was working already at McLaren.
• 14:28
  and we were coming down to the pit lane, obviously because our touring car pits were behind the main pits.
• 14:37
  We trundled into the main pit lane and parked outside McLaren, and I saw Steve and said g'day, and we got chatting, and he said, look, McLaren are looking to set up a...
• 14:49
  a full-on test team for 97.
• 14:52
  Would you be keen on seeing if we can get you in?
• 14:55
  Absolutely, mate.
• 14:56
  That's the goal is Formula One.
• 14:58
  It's everything.
• 14:59
  So he introduced me to Dave Ryan, another Kiwi guy, and actually had my interview in the garage at McLaren in the pit lane at the Melbourne Grand Prix and had a really good chat with Dave.
• 15:12
  He said, look, get your stuff sorted out.
• 15:15
  We'd like to offer you a job, get your visas and everything sorted out and get your ass over to the UK.
• 15:20
  And so I went back and told Wally and Ellen and they weren't too happy, but then had to drive down to Canberra and get my visa sorted out.
• 15:29
  And in April, so that was in March, and in April I was on a plane to Canada.
• 15:33
  to the UK and joined McLaren and just, I mean, my phony mum and dad saying, I can't believe this has happened.
• 15:39
  And I was honestly just shitting myself.
• 15:42
  I was like, shit, is my, you know, my welding, my lathe skills and everything else got to be up to speed and good enough.
• 15:48
  And, but, you know.
• 15:51
  At a massive organisation like that, there's all these divisions and setups within the team.
• 15:59
  So yes, we did some fabricating stuff, but I didn't have to worry too much about that.
• 16:02
  It was more probably having to learn to coping with a lot of hours, especially on the test team.
• 16:09
  We were testing every week nearly, normally three days, sometimes four days.
• 16:14
  We started running at nine in the morning until five o'clock at night and then...
• 16:19
  Then it was a complete set down, engine out, gearbox off, engine out, change all the suspension, doing that every single night.
• 16:27
  It was a toll on all of us, but mainly looking back, even for David and Mika and Alex Wirtz and Ricardo Zonta and the other test drivers we had, they were going Grand Prix's to test to Grand Prix's to test, and, yeah, it was brutal back then.
• 16:43
  But cool cars, yeah, V10s, awesome noise, mega.
• 16:48
  just bounce around what some of those names you rattled off so easily there were like to work with.
• 16:53
  Firstly, I mean, when I look at now, uh,
• 16:57
  the roll call of drivers over time, and we'll get to what you're doing now very shortly.
• 17:02
  But, I mean, you've worked with some incredible ones.
• 17:05
  On that McLaren side, go DC first.
• 17:07
  What was he like?
• 17:08
  DC, a lovely, lovely guy.
• 17:15
  You could see he loved what he did.
• 17:18
  He was also, yeah, he knew that up against Micah, he really had to bring his A game every single time.
• 17:24
  But just very, very personal.
• 17:26
  You know, he was always chatting to everybody in the garage.
• 17:29
  You know, he was a fun guy to be around.
• 17:32
  He, well, they both did, but, you know, they respected what everybody was doing to get them in a car.
• 17:38
  And, you know, once Adrian...
• 17:40
  knew he joined McLaren, the switch in terms of performance you could just see both of those guys they lifted themselves even more because they knew they had the car to do it but yeah, DC just a lovely family guy come from a lovely family and
• 17:58
  You could see that in the way he approached everything that he did, but also pretty tough behind the wheel as well.
• 18:05
  I thought he was pretty tough behind the wheel, but then Micah was just next level, just unreal.
• 18:09
  Wow.
• 18:10
  First time I met Micah, he was quite blunt.
• 18:16
  I think coming from down under, we were sort of, G'day, how you going?
• 18:19
  Nice to meet you.
• 18:20
  He was just like eyes forward, just so focused.
• 18:24
  And I think that's the difference when you start digging down to...
• 18:28
  the great guys and the guys that are really bloody good it's those little things that just make the difference that you get to witness and and that was the difference between Mika and David once once Mika won the world championship he flicked a switch and he was a lot more relaxed but you could see that coming up to that that was nothing else was going to get in his way so he sort of tried not to get too involved in personal stuff
• 18:51
  There's also a BAR race suit over your other shoulder.
• 18:54
  Just give people a sense of collectively here between McLaren and even BAR, what did that period teach you perhaps for what you're doing today?
• 19:03
  I mean, you're at race teams with a massive amount of people, world championship winning ethos in some respects.
• 19:11
  I mean, that's...
• 19:13
  to be around that, absorb all of that is huge for what you've done in later life, isn't it?
• 19:20
  Yeah, exactly.
• 19:20
  I think, yeah, I was there at McLaren, yeah, we had, again, they were sort of innovators in absolutely everything and that's,
• 19:31
  I think throughout my career and even back to mum and dad on the orchard, dad was so fastidious about everything.
• 19:39
  It was a bit sort of Boy Scout-y.
• 19:42
  It's like be prepared, get yourself, get everything in order and then you put the hard yards in building something or getting everything ready and then it actually is easier as you go along and McLaren is even streets ahead on that sort of approach and it was all about...
• 20:00
  And for me, it was realizing that there's opportunities here when you're working with great people, whether it's other mechanics or engineers, drivers, designers, managers, you start feeding off their experience and their knowledge.
• 20:17
  And again, going back to Les and Wally as well, you know.
• 20:21
  Just, you know, no bullshit guys that just are happy to show their experience to you.
• 20:28
  And F1, it was all about details.
• 20:31
  Every single detail has got to be the best it can be.
• 20:34
  There's no point in shortchanging anything.
• 20:36
  And at McLaren, even...
• 20:40
  They were one of the first teams.
• 20:42
  When I first started, you could just wear whatever you wanted to work, and they were one of the first teams to actually bring in a uniform because it was like we've got to have pride here in how we all look, and it's all those little attempts in the details.
• 20:55
  So what shocked me the most going from McLaren to BAR was not the same level as commitment in terms of the finer details, and that blew me away.
• 21:06
  Gotcha.
• 21:07
  So, but again, working with great drivers, you know, Olivier Pamus and Jacques Villeneuve and Antti Davidson and Takuma Sato, and then later on, obviously, Jenson Button as well.
• 21:18
  And all these different personalities just certainly helped me as I merged into my later or now career to understand exactly what I needed to do to try and accommodate all these different people.
• 21:34
  A quick break on this edition of Rusty's Garage.
• 21:36
  Stick around.
• 21:37
  What it's like working with Brad Pitt as a part of a new F1 movie and how he channeled the race learnings into other sports too.
• 21:49
  You're listening to The Motorsport Brief, our garage shortcast.
• 21:52
  During the holiday break, we've tried to find a couple of yarns that you might enjoy, something different.
• 21:56
  This one charts a hard-working Kiwi from Hawke's Bay who's worked all around the world in different forms of motorsport and is now providing a custom race seat service that is industry-leading.
• 22:09
  Back to the chat with Vaughan Cartwright now.
• 22:12
  In 2016, you founded what has now become Real Design Group, right?
• 22:17
  Firstly, when did you become, I guess, fascinated by ergonomics, driver ergonomics and the importance of that?
• 22:29
  Well, even working with Greg Murphy back in his Atlantic days, I can't remember the guy's name, he was like our chief mechanic, I think he'd come over from either England to run the car with Greg.
• 22:47
  We had to make him an expanding two-part foam seat, and it was like this big investment of just getting enough material to make one seat.
• 22:56
  We had one crack at it and that's it.
• 22:59
  Expanding foam, it's a marine-based material for filling up the cavities within boats.
• 23:05
  So it's two liquids.
• 23:07
  Thermal reaction expands up.
• 23:09
  So back then all we did was we put this bin liner bag in the cockpit of the car.
• 23:14
  Greg sat on it.
• 23:16
  And we mixed up the liquid, poured it in, and it's going everywhere.
• 23:18
  And Paul Gregg's trying to hold himself in the right position.
• 23:23
  Just looking back at it, thinking, you know, this is ridiculous.
• 23:26
  But that was it.
• 23:28
  We didn't have any more material.
• 23:29
  We couldn't afford to have another go.
• 23:30
  So I don't know how Gregg never complained about it.
• 23:33
  But looking back at it, I can't believe he sort of put up with it.
• 23:38
  But...
• 23:39
  It sort of progressed from there.
• 23:40
  So, you know, moving on to V8 supercars with Wayne and Krompo.
• 23:45
  Like, Krompo, like, you know, there isn't a micrometer that goes down to enough microns for the detail that he wants in his seat position.
• 23:53
  For me, I sort of...
• 23:55
  That sort of, I guess, sparked something.
• 23:57
  I mean, we moved to F1.
• 24:00
  Everything on a race car is designed to work at its optimum.
• 24:04
  And I think if you start sort of ignoring something as important as the seat and sort of flippantly go, I'll just do your belts up tighter and get on with it, in my opinion, you're missing out on not only physically but mentally getting the driver...
• 24:21
  100% confident in the car.
• 24:23
  And that's when we, as I progressed towards the end of my F1 career and was deciding what to do next, I just honestly believed at that time that there was an opportunity to really upscale the –
• 24:38
  bring some science to how we fit drivers to race cars.
• 24:42
  So, yeah, in 2008, end of 2008 was when we started Real as a business.
• 24:47
  And then, yeah, in 2016, we moved over to Real Design Group.
• 24:54
  Excellent, mate.
• 24:54
  So what – I mean, can you quantify – maybe you can't put an exact number on it, but I think as you've sort of alluded to there, a driver that –
• 25:03
  feels comfortable, clearly is going to be a better performing athlete, aren't they?
• 25:09
  A hundred percent.
• 25:09
  Yeah, it's, I think, one of the reassuring moments for me was sort of, I think it was 2010, working with Alex Lin in the Formula 3 Championship, British Formula 3 Championship.
• 25:22
  You know, the team at the time, I think he said they'd made him like six or seven seats and he just couldn't get comfortable and we came in, got him...
• 25:31
  We spent the day with him and he phoned me up after the test a couple of days later and he said, for the first time this year, I've been able to stand at the back of the car and go, I just can't wait to get in this car and go drive it.
• 25:46
  Whereas before he said, I was like, I was taking painkillers.
• 25:49
  I was just psyching myself up going, I've just got to put up with this for 20 minutes or however long the races.
• 25:53
  And he said it just changed his whole attitude towards driving the car and he's
• 25:59
  That's been our focus always is, as I said, everything on a race car is designed to its optimum.
• 26:05
  For me, the seat is a component of a race car.
• 26:08
  You have to brake duct or whatever it is not doing its job.
• 26:11
  Then you change it or make it better.
• 26:15
  That's our approach is if we can take the time and go through a systematic process of how we –
• 26:23
  accommodate the driver and these days especially within with the onset of the halo for example it's tightened up the space uh that's available for a driver you know that the steering wheel has to be in a certain position in relation to the halo obviously the headrest and the single seat is the headrest is a certain dimension um and in one make series like formula e or formula 2 formula 3 you know the pedal uh
• 26:48
  space is a set that you can only sort of put the pedals in certain positions.
• 26:52
  So when you've got drivers of varying sizes, it makes it very tricky trying to effectively fit a square peg to a round hole.
• 27:02
  So our process means that we can just take our time and go through that.
• 27:06
  And then from there...
• 27:08
  We laser scan all the seats, we then CAD model the seats, and then we CNC machine them out of FIA-approved material to meet the regulations for Hypercar or Formula E, for example.
• 27:19
  Amazing, mate.
• 27:20
  So, you know, a bespoke product at the end of the day.
• 27:24
  How much like motor racing is it an evolving thing?
• 27:27
  I mean, you talked about going back to 2008 there before.
• 27:30
  Don't share anything proprietary here.
• 27:32
  I'm conscious you've come up with something quite good here.
• 27:36
  But a lot of technology has changed in that time frame.
• 27:39
  You're probably dealing with new materials and things as well in the evolution of this, aren't you?
• 27:44
  100%.
• 27:45
  Yeah, I mean, it's sort of, say, two stages.
• 27:48
  We still use the same initial process to make the custom moulded seat to start with.
• 27:56
  We've developed that over the years and we've changed a few things to give us the time so that...
• 28:03
  the driver can relax.
• 28:04
  Uh, and as I said, we can be very methodical.
• 28:06
  So that, that side of it hasn't really changed, but downstream from that, certainly the scanning, catting process, uh, the way that we go through that, we are always learning.
• 28:17
  Yeah.
• 28:17
  And as you said, you know, there's new technologies out there, uh, that we, we have to be aware of and, and understand to help us to even deliver a better, uh, you know, final products.
• 28:28
  But, um, yeah,
• 28:30
  At the moment, we're in good discussions with the FIA constantly on what they're looking to see in the future.
• 28:38
  That's been an amazing insight, having that.
• 28:43
  I've had three trips to Geneva to meet with the FIA Safety Committee members to discuss our process and how we go through it, what we're trying to achieve, that the issues that we're having, as I said, trying to
• 28:56
  accommodate drivers when there's some restrictions because the car hasn't got enough scope to allow them to sit comfortably and and that's my biggest bugbear is is drivers having to sort of compromise just to try and get themselves in a car legally uh that's the big thing you know that the um
• 29:16
  it's an issue for them so having those discussions with the FIA is is you know good for them but also good for us to understand where where the future is going to be for for you know especially for single seaters just quickly it isn't just single seaters that you do whilst that might be the focus of our discussion here at the moment am I right in saying that it's lots of different kinds of motor racing you probably even do them for people for sims and all sorts do you
• 29:39
  Yeah, a few sims, not mainly, but yeah, motorsport is the main crux of our business for sure.
• 29:46
  Yeah, not just single-seaters, but also hypercar, WEC, DTs, touring cars.
• 29:52
  We've had a couple of trips out to Australia to do some supercar stuff, which has been good to get back down under.
• 29:59
  Excellent, excellent.
• 30:00
  Yeah, we've certainly always looked at where we can apply our process.
• 30:04
  I mean, the big thing for us, I think, where we've captured the industry is our process.
• 30:11
  I like to have a structure to it and go through the same process.
• 30:16
  format every single time, but, but, but be able to really, you know, it's not just that'll do it's, you know, we've got to get this a hundred percent right every single time.
• 30:24
  And that's allowed us to, you know, look into other sectors.
• 30:27
  So, um, aerobatic stump pilots is, is another area that we work in and we've been very fortunate, um, in the last few years to start working with some para para athletes as well, which has just been mind blowing.
• 30:40
  Awesome.
• 30:41
  I'll come to that in a minute, just quickly.
• 30:43
  And I don't know if there's confidentiality agreements here, so you just stop me if I'm stepping out of line here.
• 30:48
  Is it true that you have had a little bit of time with Brad Pitt, a.k.a.
• 30:53
  Sonny Hayes from the forthcoming movie F1?
• 30:56
  What is he like?
• 30:57
  Did you do some stuff with him?
• 31:00
  Yes, both him and Damson Idris and all the stunt drivers of that movie.
• 31:07
  That was a very cool experience.
• 31:09
  I wouldn't say we're BFFs, but we're... We shouldn't have swapped numbers or anything, but just both him and Damson, I think they were just blown away by how the scale of...
• 31:26
  having that insight into motorsport, you know, the whole thing was set up as a race team.
• 31:31
  Um, so yeah, they were experiencing, yeah, how it actually operates.
• 31:35
  So they would, they just, you just see this like, how, how cool is this?
• 31:39
  Yeah.
• 31:39
  We're getting to drive these, these F1 looking race cars, um, around tracks all around the world.
• 31:46
  So yeah, to work with them, uh, was, yeah, it was,
• 31:50
  It's so cool to be in a different environment, you know.
• 31:55
  But yeah, just great guys, both of them.
• 31:57
  Absolutely great guys.
• 31:58
  Lovely.
• 31:59
  Finally, you mentioned there about working at an Olympic level now, which I think is terrific.
• 32:03
  I don't know if you know, but Matthew Crawford, who used to be an engineer with the Holden Racing team for many years, he's out of motorsport now.
• 32:11
  And I think from memory, he's working with the Australian Institute of Sport doing the
• 32:15
  things with athletes in a manner that you're, I guess, doing as well to help them ensure that they can get the absolute best out of themselves.
• 32:24
  So just tell us how you're applying this now in the Paralympic space and some of the success you've enjoyed there too.
• 32:30
  Yeah, we were approached – well, we do work with a team called Team Brit based here in the UK, which was primarily set up to offer an opportunity for –
• 32:44
  servicemen and women who had suffered horrific injuries in war.
• 32:51
  And they were providing race cars at various levels and providing opportunity for these people to experience something in an environment where you weren't judged by your ability or disability.
• 33:05
  Once you get on the race track, it just comes down to lap time.
• 33:08
  So they developed this hand control system that allowed disabled drivers to be able to still run a race car, which is amazing.
• 33:15
  And through them, we'd made a few seats for some of their drivers.
• 33:20
  And they were approached by Rebecca Shanahan from the UK Sport Institute.
• 33:26
  And they put her in touch with us back in 2022.
• 33:30
  and we met with her.
• 33:32
  She came and saw us here at work, at the office, and had a good discussion with her, and basically the primary goal was to work with Ben Pritchard, the PR1 rower.
• 33:43
  He had finished fifth at Tokyo and had hit a bit of a brick wall.
• 33:49
  He was, like, starting to question whether this was for him and whether he could actually get onto a podium.
• 33:57
  And they were struck, you know, in rowing, basically Ben is the engine, he's everything.
• 34:03
  And there's very strict rules of what you can and can't do.
• 34:05
  You know, the boat can only come from two manufacturers, the oars, the outriggers.
• 34:10
  It's all very controlled.
• 34:11
  So basically, apart from him, the seat is sort of the only other area where there's opportunity to gain some performance.
• 34:19
  So we started back in 2022 and we just hit the ground running.
• 34:26
  We met him on day one with him, moulded him a seat, and what blew him away that he was out on the water the same day to start assessing it, that he'd never had that before.
• 34:37
  Other companies had come in and done assessments with him and gone away, and six weeks later they'd sent something, and by that time he'd changed and it wasn't quite right.
• 34:45
  And...
• 34:46
  he just was blown away that we were there making something that he could use and then fine-tune it all on the same day.
• 34:52
  And that just, I think, was the sort of foundation we needed to then push forward with in terms of development.
• 34:59
  And we went in a few different directions and finally found a path that
• 35:04
  led him and us to be able to design something that we ended up saving nearly five kilos in weight off his boat, which, yeah, which was amazing.
• 35:15
  And then to obviously fast forward to Paris 2024,
• 35:20
  Up until that stage, he'd finished second and third in European regattas and world championship events.
• 35:26
  And so Sarah and I are home with the kids, ready to watch his final.
• 35:33
  He made the final in Paris and we're sitting there and I've never felt as emotionally invested in something like this.
• 35:43
  And I literally, butterflies were doing butterflies in my stomach.
• 35:47
  It was amazing feeling.
• 35:48
  And...
• 35:49
  sitting there on the couch watching the TV, and he sort of rose out to the start, and I think, is this guy for real?
• 35:54
  Like, he just looks so, like, chilled out.
• 35:57
  Anyway, the race starts and he gets off to an amazing first leg and powers through and just obliterates the field and wins it.
• 36:05
  And I'm screaming at the TV at the top of my lungs.
• 36:08
  And, you know, just unreal feeling.
• 36:12
  And so to win, for him to win gold medal and to have a part of that has probably been one of the biggest highlights of my career of doing this.
• 36:21
  You know, the upshot, after all the PR stuff that he had to do post Paralympics and what have you, and obviously spending time with his wife and daughter.
• 36:33
  And he phoned up and said, mate, we need to go for dinner.
• 36:35
  And he took Sarah and I out for dinner.
• 36:37
  And just, you know, it was, I think, two and a half hours later, we finally got kicked out of the table.
• 36:43
  But they just be able to go through, you know, we make seats for racing drivers and a lot of them say to me, well, you know, I get to see you once a year.
• 36:53
  And that's a good thing because if I only see you once a year, you know, we've got it sussed and that's great.
• 36:58
  But with Ben, it was this ongoing, you know, development and research.
• 37:04
  And we learned so much about how to do our process even better because obviously Ben is, you know, he's paralyzed.
• 37:10
  He's got no feeling from his chest down.
• 37:12
  Yeah.
• 37:13
  trying to work out between ourselves between him and myself how we can find the right position for him you know it took a lot but we you know it's it was just yeah absolutely amazing how incredible what a great way to finish our chat here today i love where motor racing has taken you um in life and the fact that you are showing other sports other industry now what motor racing people are
• 37:39
  capable of.
• 37:39
  Congratulations.
• 37:41
  Let people know how they can find out a little more about you as well before we go.
• 37:44
  Cheers, Rusty.
• 37:45
  I mean, this has been an amazing thing to do with you.
• 37:48
  I've really been looking forward to this for ages.
• 37:52
  But yeah, I mean, check us out online, realdesigngroup.com is our website.
• 37:57
  We're on socials as well, but you can find us on Instagram as our main one.
• 38:02
  But
• 38:03
  Yeah, just flicking through the list of drivers and athletes that I've worked with since late 2008 has been incredible.
• 38:14
  Met and continue to work with some amazing drivers and athletes and, yeah, just loving what I'm doing.
• 38:21
  Absolutely loving it.
• 38:22
  Well done.
• 38:22
  Merry Christmas to you and Sarah and all the very best for 2025.
• 38:26
  Then to you, buddy, and all the best to you and Sarah.
• 38:30
  Hope you enjoyed that one.
• 38:31
  You can find Real Design Group on the web or socials, as Vaughan said there.
• 38:36
  If you've got an industry guest that you'd like us to talk to, maybe it's a lesser-known story, but perhaps that person isn't the kind to seek the limelight despite the success they've played a part in, I'd love to know about it.
• 38:48
  Hit me up on social media.
• 38:49
  We'll try and weave them in from time to time around our usual...
• 38:53
  feature episodes that I know you all love and our news orientated shortcast too.
• 38:58
  Incidentally, I'm at the historic GP in Topor in the coming weeks.
• 39:02
  Roberto Moreno, Russell Ingle, Stephen Richards, Murph, Steve Millen and more will be there along with Tony Quinn's epic six-wheel Tyrrell.
• 39:11
  We will definitely get some content from there for you to enjoy here on the podcast.
• 39:15
  Bye for now.