Latest / Beyond Labels Premium / Episode #135: Mail Bag: Joel and Sina Answer Your Questions (Apeel, Testing for Food Triggers, Good Investments & More!)

Transcript

Episode #135: Mail Bag: Joel and Sina Answer Your Questions (Apeel, Testing for Food Triggers, Good Investments & More!) · Beyond Labels Premium

0:00
SPEAKER_00: Today's uh program to jump right into it here.
0:03
SPEAKER_00: Uh we we enjoy very much uh listener questions.
0:08
SPEAKER_00: We don't always have the answers.
0:10
SPEAKER_00: Um if we don't have the answers, um Cena goes and finds the answer, fortunately.
0:14
SPEAKER_00: And so uh so so we we have we have an interesting one today that we'd like to dig into first because it does cover you know a lot of ground that that we think um might be kind of new information will just help you to understand a little bit more about the food system.
0:31
SPEAKER_00: Welcome everybody to another podcast of Beyond Labels with yours truly, farmer Joel Salaton and our favorite researcher, Dr.
0:39
SPEAKER_00: Cena McCullough.
0:41
SPEAKER_00: Uh we are really excited to be able to now begin announcing and laying some uh groundwork for the upcoming Beyond Labels Summit.
0:49
SPEAKER_00: Uh, I think this will be the fourth one here at Polyface Farm in the Shenandoah Valley of Virginia.
0:55
SPEAKER_00: And um I'm gonna turn it over to Cena, who's really the the brains of this.
1:00
SPEAKER_00: Uh uh I I just provided the uh a pretty place uh to be.
1:04
SPEAKER_00: But Cena does the uh the behind the scenes organization and work, and I'll let her um give about a one-minute uh uh explanation of what's coming up.
1:14
SPEAKER_01: Well, thanks, Joel.
1:16
SPEAKER_01: All right, I am so excited about this fourth annual Beyond Label Summit.
1:20
SPEAKER_01: It's called Detoxify the Body, Mind, and Spirit.
1:24
SPEAKER_01: It's June 14th and 15th of 2024.
1:29
SPEAKER_01: And this is the first time that we're gonna do something like this.
1:32
SPEAKER_01: We are actually gonna explore ancient and modern detoxification strategies.
1:38
SPEAKER_01: And then while you're still with us at the farm, we're gonna create a personalized detox plan tailored to the individual's needs, right?
1:47
SPEAKER_01: This is something we've never done before.
1:49
SPEAKER_01: We have some great experts coming to impart their knowledge, including Sayer G.
1:55
SPEAKER_01: Oh my gosh, I'm so excited.
1:57
SPEAKER_01: As Joel knows, I have tried to get Sayer to be our keynote for now four years in a row, and he finally succumbed.
2:05
SPEAKER_01: Like, right, right?
2:07
SPEAKER_01: Perseverance won.
2:08
SPEAKER_01: So we've got Sayer coming, Dr.
2:10
SPEAKER_01: Leland Stillman, and of course, Joel and myself, and the amazing Hilda Labra Gore, affectionately known as Holistic Hilda.
2:19
SPEAKER_01: She'll be there speaking and also MC.
2:22
SPEAKER_01: Uh, we're gonna go over all these different methods for how to detoxify the body, mind, and the spirit.
2:27
SPEAKER_01: And we're gonna have a lot of hands-on this year, like more workshop styles.
2:31
SPEAKER_01: And we have for the first time ever, a kids and teens program.
2:37
SPEAKER_01: It's called the Kids and Teens Club, uh, where you can drop your kids off with us.
2:41
SPEAKER_01: And actually, Joel, Hilda, and myself are gonna be also teaching the kids, like in sharing our knowledge.
2:48
SPEAKER_01: Joel's gonna even um send them on a farm tour with him and tell some funny farm stories.
2:53
SPEAKER_01: I'll be doing things like candy chemistry experiments with them, reading food labels.
2:56
SPEAKER_01: It's gonna be a blast.
2:58
SPEAKER_01: So I hope you're all able to join us June 14th and 15th.
3:01
SPEAKER_01: If you want more info or to buy the tickets, the link is in the show description.
3:06
SPEAKER_00: Thanks, Cena.
3:07
SPEAKER_00: That's uh that's great.
3:08
SPEAKER_00: And yeah, and the tickets will be uh through the Polyface website.
3:12
SPEAKER_00: But yeah, the links are all in in the show description here.
3:15
SPEAKER_00: And uh we we want to uh uh I I I just my personal thing here to explain to everybody, uh Cena has put her heart and soul into this.
3:25
SPEAKER_00: Uh we've this is our fourth year.
3:28
SPEAKER_00: They just keep getting better and better because she's so creative.
3:32
SPEAKER_00: And so uh uh I I I think I think I haven't been as excited about a program as we have coming up.
3:40
SPEAKER_00: So I hope that those of you who have been here before, there will be it'll be a totally new theme, and uh it'll be it'll be um it'll be a great, great time in June.
3:51
SPEAKER_00: Look forward to seeing you there.
3:52
SPEAKER_00: So, Cena, today's uh program to jump right into it here.
3:56
SPEAKER_00: Uh we we enjoy very much uh listener questions.
4:01
SPEAKER_00: We don't always have the answers.
4:03
SPEAKER_00: Um if we don't have the answers, um Cena goes and finds the answer, fortunately.
4:08
SPEAKER_00: And so uh so so we we have we have an interesting one today that we'd like to dig into first because it does cover you know a lot of ground that that we think um might be kind of new information.
4:19
SPEAKER_00: It'll just help you to understand a little bit of more about the food system.
4:23
SPEAKER_00: And it's um it's it's about chicken, about destroying chickens in um Arkansas.
4:29
SPEAKER_00: Cina?
4:31
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
4:31
SPEAKER_01: So we're gonna start with this question from Jessica Revis.
4:35
SPEAKER_01: And just like last QA, we're trying to do lightning round.
4:38
SPEAKER_01: We're gonna try to answer as many of your questions as we can.
4:40
SPEAKER_01: Okay, so Jessica writes in to the show and she says, I have heard Joel discuss industrial chicken slaughters that occurred as a result of disease in birds, but and she attached an article to this where they talk about birds being killed now because of a business failure.
4:58
SPEAKER_01: So she said, This is new to her.
5:00
SPEAKER_01: Why don't they process the birds?
5:03
SPEAKER_01: Why does the industrial response have to be a swift annihilation of food that can go a long way in feeding families?
5:10
SPEAKER_01: It was hundreds of thousands of chickens.
5:12
SPEAKER_01: That's a lot of food.
5:13
SPEAKER_01: I feel sadness that our society has become so disconnected from creation that killing mass amounts of birds simply because we are no longer have a use for them is justifiable.
5:24
SPEAKER_01: Thanks for all you do, Jessica Rebus.
5:27
SPEAKER_00: Okay, so thanks, Jessica, for the question.
5:30
SPEAKER_00: We really appreciate it.
5:31
SPEAKER_00: And along with the question, she forwarded me, she forwarded us the um the news article about the uh depopulation.
5:42
SPEAKER_00: And so here's the deal.
5:45
SPEAKER_00: Uh this is called Cook's Ventures.
5:48
SPEAKER_00: It's a great, great big uh factory farm chicken operation in Arkansas.
5:53
SPEAKER_00: And it went belly up, went bankrupt, or or or whatever.
5:56
SPEAKER_00: They discontinued operations.
5:58
SPEAKER_00: So um why uh why don't they, you know, why don't they process these chickens?
6:06
SPEAKER_00: Why did they um euthanize them?
6:09
SPEAKER_00: So these were um not meat chickens.
6:14
SPEAKER_00: There's a couple things going on here.
6:17
SPEAKER_00: One is that uh in the I want you to think about the uh like a pipeline, okay?
6:24
SPEAKER_00: Um so you know, imagine kindergarten, elementary school, middle school, high school, you've got this, you got this pipeline going on, okay?
6:34
SPEAKER_00: And and here, what you have are you you have chicks hatched, you have them uh going, you have them being raised, going out to a farm, then they're being used for something, uh, and uh and uh then they're going into you know into processing.
6:51
SPEAKER_00: Well in a company like this, everything is tied together.
6:57
SPEAKER_00: It's all tied together.
6:59
SPEAKER_00: So when you have a hiccup in one spot, it creates a hiccup in another spot.
7:06
SPEAKER_00: And so when the when the company stopped operations, when they went out of business, it wasn't like the processing end of the company could continue to functioning like normal uh while the production farms.
7:25
SPEAKER_00: So that they have this pipeline going in, but if the if the end of the pipe stops up, i.e., you know, they can't pay their workers, they've got to shut down the processing thing because they've gone bankrupt and they can't, you know, they can't pay their workers.
7:40
SPEAKER_00: We got to uh let everybody go.
7:42
SPEAKER_00: You've got all this all this uh production into the pipeline from the hatchery all the way up to the you know to the processing, you've got that pipeline already full, but suddenly you can't get those chickens processed.
7:56
SPEAKER_00: Now, nobody else will process those chickens.
7:59
SPEAKER_00: You can't take them.
8:00
SPEAKER_00: This was Cook's Ventures, you know, you you can't take them over to Tyson.
8:03
SPEAKER_00: You can't take them, you can't call up Purdue and say, hey, Purdue, you know, we've got an extra uh you know 50 million chickens here.
8:09
SPEAKER_00: Can you process it?
8:10
SPEAKER_00: Because because their pipeline is full too.
8:13
SPEAKER_00: So they can't take them anywhere else.
8:15
SPEAKER_00: And certainly Purdue doesn't want Cook's Ventures chickens.
8:19
SPEAKER_00: That would be a branding problem.
8:21
SPEAKER_00: They're not going to take somebody else's chickens.
8:24
SPEAKER_00: And uh and so everything gets gets clogged up.
8:28
SPEAKER_00: And I think I think what uh what this illustrates is uh that that the system is is tweaked uh uh uh is tweaked to such a a measure of of uh what efficiency that there's simply no resilience to handle uh uh to handle an event that uh that uh bobbles, that that just bobbles this efficiency chain.
9:01
SPEAKER_00: And and so um it's interesting in the article, you know, it says uh that they they foamed the chickens.
9:10
SPEAKER_00: Um you know, that's such a euphemistic thing.
9:14
SPEAKER_00: You know, foaming sounds fun.
9:15
SPEAKER_00: Foaming, you know, we put it on for aftershave.
9:18
SPEAKER_00: You, you know, you there's all sorts of reasons for foaming.
9:21
SPEAKER_00: You, you know, kids play in foam at, you know, at at uh kid parks, right?
9:25
SPEAKER_00: Foam is fun.
9:26
SPEAKER_00: But in this case, um the foam, so so imagine you know, there's 15,000 chickens in a house, and how do you kill 15,000 chickens rapidly?
9:37
SPEAKER_00: Well, uh the one of the easiest ways is simply uh uh to pump soap suds in there and the soap suds build up pretty quickly and suffocate the chickens.
9:52
SPEAKER_00: And so that's how you kill uh very rapidly, you kill a house full of chickens is with uh uh foam, uh basically soap suds.
10:02
SPEAKER_00: Uh you you simply suffocate them all.
10:04
SPEAKER_00: And uh uh that that's that's quick, easy, you know, well done.
10:09
SPEAKER_00: From an industry standpoint, now I can't agree more.
10:13
SPEAKER_00: What a what a waste.
10:15
SPEAKER_00: Um but but I think that it indicates it it uh it simply illustrates uh the the inherent uh fragility and inability to flex within these uh highly compressed, um supposedly highly efficient uh you know when you when you have a zero waste production system, that also means zero flexibility.
10:44
SPEAKER_00: There's no place for anything to happen.
10:47
SPEAKER_00: And and you can't you can't wait another week.
10:50
SPEAKER_00: You can't uh you can't make an adjustment.
10:53
SPEAKER_00: And so what this is is that that the cost so here we have a company that's failing, they decide to go bankrupt, the cost of finishing out those chickens is way more in in in a um the cost of paying the processing and trying to finish them out is way more than simply the cost of destroying them.
11:20
SPEAKER_00: That's the bottom line.
11:21
SPEAKER_00: And so, so um obviously nobody's thinking about the life of the chicken.
11:34
SPEAKER_00: How can we get out of this as cheaply and as quickly and efficiently as possible?
11:40
SPEAKER_00: And uh, I couldn't agree with you more.
11:42
SPEAKER_00: It's a it's a it's a tragic waste, but I hope everybody realizes that this is this is created.
11:51
SPEAKER_00: Look, if you've got if you've got hundreds and thousands of small producers and something and somebody has a problem, somebody else can come over and dress those chickens.
12:04
SPEAKER_00: Somebody else can come over and handle that.
12:06
SPEAKER_00: Uh there's uh I can tell you that in the in the pastured poultry movement, uh, we have a lot of camaraderie.
12:13
SPEAKER_00: People help each other, people move stuff around.
12:16
SPEAKER_00: Uh, I've got a problem, and and there's a lot of uh camaraderie and movement.
12:20
SPEAKER_00: And and the numbers, the numbers aren't so big that they overwhelm, you know, overwhelm the system.
12:26
SPEAKER_00: Here, the numbers are so big and the the the processing facilities so big and the money so large and the banks uh so much money.
12:37
SPEAKER_00: You see what I'm saying?
12:39
SPEAKER_00: The magnitude of everything, the magnitude of everything reduces the flexibility of everything because everything is so big.
12:48
SPEAKER_00: So that that's where we are.
12:50
SPEAKER_00: But it it's uh yeah, it is a tragedy.
12:52
SPEAKER_00: Couldn't agree.
12:53
SPEAKER_00: Thank you for the question.
12:55
SPEAKER_01: Yes, yes, thank you, Jessica.
12:57
SPEAKER_01: Okay, next question.
12:59
SPEAKER_01: We're gonna shift gears now.
13:01
SPEAKER_01: Um, this is from Angie Strobel.
13:05
SPEAKER_01: She writes in and says, I'm writing to ask if the appeal product can be washed off the produce.
13:13
SPEAKER_01: Also, if other wax coatings can be washed off.
13:17
SPEAKER_01: My daughter has to soak produce, even organic produce, in a mixture of filtered water and white vinegar before she can consume it.
13:25
SPEAKER_01: If she doesn't do that, she will have small hives appear on her mouth and her throat will itch.
13:31
SPEAKER_01: It's very scary.
13:32
SPEAKER_01: Um, thank you so much.
13:33
SPEAKER_01: Okay, Angie, this is a great, great question.
13:36
SPEAKER_01: So, what I've done is uh, because I, you know, I don't have a connection with appeal, like in terms of I don't make that product.
13:45
SPEAKER_01: So I went to the source to ask your question.
13:50
SPEAKER_01: Um, Jenny responded back.
13:52
SPEAKER_01: Jenny is the woman who we interviewed, and she's a co-founder of Appeal.
13:57
SPEAKER_01: Um, I sent her a question, and this is what she came back with.
14:01
SPEAKER_01: Jenny says, Um, please thank Angie and your listeners for their thoughtful questions on appeal.
14:07
SPEAKER_01: You can remove the appeal coating by washing it under warm, running water and using mechanical agitation, either using a vegetable scrub brush or by rubbing it with your hands.
14:20
SPEAKER_01: While we haven't ourselves tested other conventional and organic waxes that are already on the market, resources that we found from reputable sources online suggest the same applies as described above.
14:33
SPEAKER_01: Uh, where possible, peeling is another good option if you want to be certain.
14:38
SPEAKER_01: And then she does add, she says on a personal note, I'm sorry to hear about your daughter's experience in case it's something that could be of help.
14:45
SPEAKER_01: If you haven't come across pollen food allergy syndrome before, she says it's also referred to as oral allergy syndrome.
14:54
SPEAKER_01: It might be something you'd like to talk to your health care provider about.
14:57
SPEAKER_01: I used to have the same kinds of symptoms when eating a variety of different fruits.
15:01
SPEAKER_01: It turns out that my birch pollen allergy was triggering an allergic reaction to the proteins found in the fruits.
15:08
SPEAKER_01: So just something on a personal to look into.
15:10
SPEAKER_01: But the main point was she's saying you can wash it off, but it requires warm running water and mechanical agitation.
15:19
SPEAKER_01: Um, so you know, uh, I'm certainly not an expert in this area.
15:25
SPEAKER_01: I you know, I have asked my husband about it because he's, you know, he's the chemical engineer and he studied plastics and such.
15:31
SPEAKER_01: Um, but wax by definition is not soluble in water, right?
15:36
SPEAKER_01: Wax is not soluble in water.
15:38
SPEAKER_01: So this is why they'll say use the warm running water and then use mechanical agitation, because what's happening, probably what's most likely happening here, you know, like if you can see inside the wax that's on the produce, is that a chemical reaction is not occurring.
15:56
SPEAKER_01: It's a physical reaction, hence the need for the mechanical agitation, right?
16:01
SPEAKER_00: So um so just so so just so everybody understands, um, mechanical agitation sounds like a sounds like a scientific uh term.
16:10
SPEAKER_00: We're talking about a vegetable brush.
16:12
SPEAKER_00: Just use it, you use a good use a good vegetable brush and scrub it while the warm water uh and not cold water.
16:20
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's gotta be the warm water, you know, and you got to scrub it.
16:24
SPEAKER_01: And that's why, you know, some people will soak, they're like, oh yeah, I put it in a in a container of water, right?
16:30
SPEAKER_01: Well, that's not gonna do it, right?
16:32
SPEAKER_01: Especially if it's cold water.
16:33
SPEAKER_01: That's not gonna really get the wax off.
16:34
SPEAKER_01: Now, now I will say, so pure wax is not soluble in in water, okay?
16:41
SPEAKER_01: I don't know the exact configuration of all the different waxes that is used on the produce.
16:48
SPEAKER_01: So we know that they add different components to it.
16:51
SPEAKER_01: I've talked about this.
16:52
SPEAKER_01: They can add grass compounds to it, uh, they can add grain-derived compounds to it.
16:58
SPEAKER_01: So it's not a pure wax that's going on the fruits and vegetables.
17:01
SPEAKER_01: So depending on what other ingredients they've added, it could be more or less soluble in the water.
17:08
SPEAKER_01: But but this the bulk ingredient of a wax is not soluble in water.
17:12
SPEAKER_01: Hence, you have to use some kind of mechanical agitation, some scrubbing, um, along with the hot water.
17:19
SPEAKER_01: Uh, you know, and there's homemade recipes online that you can find.
17:22
SPEAKER_01: Some people use like bacon soda and vinegar, lemon juice, apple cider vinegar.
17:27
SPEAKER_01: Um, and it is the recipe that you use will change based on what type of coating has actually been formulated for that specific produce.
17:36
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
17:36
SPEAKER_01: But that's what she's saying.
17:38
SPEAKER_01: I have not personally tried to, you know, bought a product that had appeals coating on it and tried to remove it, right?
17:46
SPEAKER_01: So, so uh and Joel, I'm pretty sure you haven't either, right?
17:49
SPEAKER_01: Am I safe in saying that?
17:51
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
17:52
SPEAKER_00: No, no, I uh not not not me.
17:55
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so we can't speak from personal experience on that, but that's what Jenny has said, and that's what the internet's saying.
18:02
SPEAKER_00: Is there any way that you would know that the that the coating is is off?
18:06
SPEAKER_00: How how would a how would a person like me uh just you know, or just a you know a homeowner, how would somebody in our kitchen, how would we know that it's actually removed?
18:16
SPEAKER_01: So if you say you have like a bowl, if you can catch the water underneath you that's running off the the produce as you're scrubbing it, if you can catch the water enough to look at it, you can see it.
18:28
SPEAKER_01: You can see the chemicals in the water.
18:30
SPEAKER_01: It won't look like just crystal clear, you know, fluid water.
18:34
SPEAKER_01: You'll see it.
18:35
SPEAKER_00: Is there any kind of uh, I don't know, uh black light or infrared light or anything that that you know that you could that you could like you know uh put on the fruit that would that would indicate, okay, here's a spot I missed, there's a spot I missed.
18:49
SPEAKER_00: I mean, is there is this too sophisticated?
18:52
SPEAKER_00: I'm just I'm just trying to put myself in the position of somebody that's that's washing this.
18:56
SPEAKER_00: Of course, you know, we we go to an orchard and buy stuff, you know, by the bushel.
19:00
SPEAKER_00: So um, you know, you don't have a coating on it.
19:02
SPEAKER_00: You don't have a coating.
19:03
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
19:03
SPEAKER_01: Well, geez, I would hope that a black light wouldn't be shining like when it wouldn't, you know, wouldn't it reveal markings on the fruits and vegetable?
19:13
SPEAKER_01: Like that was all that's cool.
19:16
SPEAKER_01: But uh, I mean, that'd be a cool experiment you do with your kids.
19:19
SPEAKER_01: Um, I I don't know the answer to that.
19:21
SPEAKER_01: You know, I would hope that the answer would be no to that black light part.
19:25
SPEAKER_01: Um, but you know, from my experience, you just you can see it and you can feel it coming off of of the produce, you know.
19:32
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, because because it it it because it's not it doesn't feel as slick.
19:36
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and you and it's in the brush too.
19:38
SPEAKER_01: Like as you're as you're rubbing the the fruit with the brush, you can feel it help go into the brush, you know.
19:45
SPEAKER_01: Um, yeah, it's it's it's not viscous, it's not as viscous as the water.
19:50
SPEAKER_01: So you should be able to feel it.
19:51
SPEAKER_01: If you're if it's coming off, you should be able to feel it, you should be able to see it if it is coming off.
19:55
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's a great question, Joel.
19:58
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, right.
19:59
SPEAKER_00: Okay, good.
20:00
SPEAKER_00: Got another question.
20:01
SPEAKER_01: Okay, we're all right, we're on a roll here.
20:04
SPEAKER_01: Okay, this one I thought was kind of fun.
20:07
SPEAKER_01: So this isn't uh actually a question, but I love it.
20:11
SPEAKER_01: I love it when our listeners do things like this.
20:13
SPEAKER_01: So this one comes from Dan Weinberg, and he says he's out of um Chicago, and he says, Hello, beyond label.
20:21
SPEAKER_01: These are poems that I wrote recently.
20:24
SPEAKER_01: I stole Joel's quote, pignus idea.
20:27
SPEAKER_01: Maybe you can use these poems.
20:28
SPEAKER_01: Okay, so you ready?
20:30
SPEAKER_01: I was gonna read you some of the poems.
20:32
SPEAKER_01: Okay, yep.
20:34
SPEAKER_01: Make chickens and cows happy, don't put them in a cage, let them be scrappy, allow them to engage, celebrate their cowness and chickenness so they will strive in all their richness, so we and they can thrive.
20:51
SPEAKER_00: Isn't that great?
20:52
SPEAKER_00: That's great, that's great, yeah.
20:54
SPEAKER_00: Poetry is good, that's good stuff, yeah.
20:57
SPEAKER_01: Okay, then there's here's another one.
20:59
SPEAKER_01: We have to shift the way we think, or crops will shrink and shrink.
21:03
SPEAKER_01: Animals and plants are not machines, they need life and death in their routines.
21:09
SPEAKER_01: Well, he's got you pegged.
21:12
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, there's a there's there's some there's some real talent.
21:15
SPEAKER_00: Love.
21:17
SPEAKER_01: Um, okay, so here's I'll read you one more that he wrote.
21:20
SPEAKER_01: This one's called Evolve.
21:22
SPEAKER_01: Evolving farmland, going regenerative, nature in command, make all to live.
21:28
SPEAKER_01: No more bags of chem, normal, no more bank loans, only worms and stem and bird tones.
21:35
SPEAKER_01: Crops are happy, water abounds, bacteria are snappy, and fungi get around.
21:42
SPEAKER_01: Soil is healthy, we are too.
21:44
SPEAKER_01: Soil is wealthy, so plants get their due.
21:47
SPEAKER_01: Isn't that great?
21:49
SPEAKER_00: That is that is great.
21:50
SPEAKER_00: Very catchy, very catchy.
21:52
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you gotta you got you gotta work at that stuff.
21:55
SPEAKER_00: I've written some poetry, you know, and and uh man, it it's uh You got to work at it.
22:01
SPEAKER_00: And especially, you know, when you when you have something with that um that nuanced rhyme to it, that that's hard work.
22:08
SPEAKER_00: So thanks, Dan.
22:10
SPEAKER_00: That's super.
22:11
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that was fantastic.
22:12
SPEAKER_01: I love it.
22:13
SPEAKER_01: You know, if anyone else wants to send us poems or jokes, that would be fantastic.
22:17
SPEAKER_01: We'll read them on air, you know.
22:19
SPEAKER_01: Oh, I have to share.
22:21
SPEAKER_01: Um, one of one of our listeners, uh, the last time we had our summit, our Beyond Label summit at Polyface Farm, uh, this was so amazing.
22:30
SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, there was an episode, Joel.
22:32
SPEAKER_01: I don't know if you remember or not, but you were talking about the bogeyman.
22:37
SPEAKER_01: Do you remember that episode?
22:39
SPEAKER_01: You're talking about bogeyman.
22:40
SPEAKER_01: And I was like, are you saying bogeyman?
22:44
SPEAKER_01: And you're like, oh, it's bogeyman.
22:46
SPEAKER_01: And you pulled out your dictionary.
22:48
SPEAKER_01: And I was like, don't even bother.
22:50
SPEAKER_01: I know you're right, right?
22:51
SPEAKER_01: Well, it turns out we were both right.
22:53
SPEAKER_01: So I kid you not, a few couple months later at our Beyond Label Summit at your farm, one of our listeners brought me a dictionary.
23:04
SPEAKER_00: An actual paper, paper dictionary.
23:08
SPEAKER_01: Because I was like, I don't have it anymore.
23:10
SPEAKER_01: I just look it up online.
23:11
SPEAKER_01: So they brought me one.
23:12
SPEAKER_01: So now I I can rival you right on the spot.
23:19
SPEAKER_00: No, what it what it what it what what it what it is, now you have no excuse.
23:23
SPEAKER_00: That's what it is.
23:27
SPEAKER_01: Oh man, I kind of walked myself into that corner, didn't I?
23:34
SPEAKER_01: But yes, our listeners are so sweet and amazing.
23:37
SPEAKER_01: It's it it really, I keep it right there, prominent on my bookshelf.
23:41
SPEAKER_01: So I see it every day.
23:43
SPEAKER_01: So, okay, great.
23:44
SPEAKER_01: Well, let me roll along in this lightning round to the next question.
23:48
SPEAKER_01: This one comes from Ethan Johnson.
23:51
SPEAKER_01: And Ethan says, uh, Dr.
23:54
SPEAKER_01: Cena, when you speak about finding the right triggers, so this is when you're trying to reverse a disease, okay?
24:01
SPEAKER_01: So when you speak about finding the right triggers, are you speaking about IgG testing?
24:06
SPEAKER_01: He said his wife and I are working with somebody.
24:09
SPEAKER_01: Um they're not convinced that IgG is a legitimate test from some of the articles they've read.
24:14
SPEAKER_01: Um they're having health issues, trying to get pregnant.
24:18
SPEAKER_01: They've been on this journey for six months, nothing's changed.
24:22
SPEAKER_01: Um, so the question is is IgG uh a test, a good test when you're trying to find the right triggers?
24:31
SPEAKER_01: Okay, so this is gonna be kind of my shortened answer, because you know, these all require a lot of um a lot of different triggers to be found.
24:42
SPEAKER_01: When you're working with trying to find food triggers, right?
24:45
SPEAKER_01: So IgG would be in that category.
24:48
SPEAKER_01: What I would say is IgG by itself is is would not be considered an adequate or, in your terms, legitimate test.
24:56
SPEAKER_01: So I don't do an IgG by itself.
24:59
SPEAKER_01: I completely agree with that.
25:00
SPEAKER_01: What I like to do is I combine three different tests, right?
25:04
SPEAKER_01: Because when you're trying to find your triggers, what you're trying to do really is find the puzzle pieces.
25:09
SPEAKER_01: And you want to find as many puzzle pieces as possible to make the your the picture, your health picture, as clear as possible.
25:19
SPEAKER_01: Okay, so that's that makes sense, right?
25:21
SPEAKER_01: The more puzzle pieces you put together, the clearer your picture.
25:26
SPEAKER_01: So the clearer your path that you need to take for recovery.
25:30
SPEAKER_00: So you might even rather than just thinking of it as a puzzle, and also thinking of it as as overlays.
25:36
SPEAKER_00: If you've ever you know look looked at overlays, you get a you get a basic and then you get one with a little a little different detail.
25:42
SPEAKER_00: And by the time you get three or four overlays on, you really have a you really have a uh an in-depth detailed picture of of something.
25:50
SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
25:51
SPEAKER_01: And so like IgG in your um analogy would maybe be the first, you know, the first picture, the first picture.
25:59
SPEAKER_01: You need many, many more overlays to to even get some thought of what you what your food triggers are.
26:06
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
26:07
SPEAKER_01: So um in case this helps, because Ethan's talking about how they they're not making any progress.
26:13
SPEAKER_01: So I thought I would share the three tests that I use.
26:17
SPEAKER_01: Um, I do uh a gluten sensitivity test, and this is the genetic test for the HLA DQ genotype.
26:25
SPEAKER_01: All right, I didn't do I don't do any antibody testing when it comes to gluten sensitivity because I have found they're not accurate for a multitude of reasons.
26:34
SPEAKER_01: If someone's interested, let us know.
26:35
SPEAKER_01: We can do that for another podcast.
26:37
SPEAKER_01: Um, the second test I do is an IgE, a true allergy test, right?
26:43
SPEAKER_01: And this a Western doctor can do, right, in the Western doctor's office.
26:47
SPEAKER_01: Usually it's covered by insurance.
26:50
SPEAKER_01: Um I will say most people tend to not have a true allergy.
26:55
SPEAKER_01: Most tend to have a delayed hypersensitivity, okay?
26:59
SPEAKER_01: But I like to rule out the true allergies because every now and then they do pop up, even if it's a mild allergy.
27:06
SPEAKER_01: So, example, um, as you know, my husband also went through um a health challenge uh where he had chronic Lyme and he had lupus and um gum disease and such.
27:20
SPEAKER_01: And he he went totally grain-free.
27:23
SPEAKER_01: So he he ate grains and meat and um cheese, right?
27:28
SPEAKER_01: He loved his cheese in his milk and you know, not very much other food.
27:32
SPEAKER_01: So he went, he gave up grains, but he wouldn't get up, give up the milk.
27:36
SPEAKER_01: And he said to me, Well, I don't have any reactions to it.
27:40
SPEAKER_01: Like I'm not having any gastrointestinal issues, I don't feel different when I drink my nightly glass of milk.
27:47
SPEAKER_01: It actually helps me to go to sleep and whatnot.
27:49
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
27:50
SPEAKER_01: So he wasn't healing, right?
27:53
SPEAKER_01: The Lyme came back, the lupus markers were elevated.
27:56
SPEAKER_01: And so I said, you know, just humor me.
27:59
SPEAKER_01: Just go for your, you know, when you go in for your physical, because the company had them do physicals and you got reduced prices for it.
28:06
SPEAKER_01: So um on your insurance.
28:08
SPEAKER_01: So when you go in for your physical, just ask the doctor to run an IGE test.
28:14
SPEAKER_01: All right.
28:15
SPEAKER_01: And he was like, I don't think they're gonna do it.
28:17
SPEAKER_01: I'm like, just tell them that it's me.
28:19
SPEAKER_01: That I just, you know, just have this wild intuition and just tell them to do it.
28:25
SPEAKER_01: So he goes in there and the doctor's like, it's not gonna show anything, but fine, I'll do it.
28:29
SPEAKER_01: Because the doctor knows that like I'll just kind of hound them until they do it, right?
28:34
SPEAKER_01: So they ran it and he sure enough tested positive for true allergy to dairy, even though he he had none of the symptoms that we think of for a true allergy, right?
28:47
SPEAKER_01: We think of like itchiness and hives and anaphylactics if and stuff like that, you know.
28:51
SPEAKER_01: He didn't have any of the symptoms, and like he said, he felt good consuming his nightly last of dairy.
28:57
SPEAKER_01: That has a whole other thing.
29:00
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, see Cena, based on what we learned about our podcast on living to a living well to a hundred, he needs to he needs to substitute his glass of milk for a glass of wine.
29:14
SPEAKER_01: Yes, well, he would have been better off had he done that, yes.
29:19
SPEAKER_01: Um, that's absolutely right.
29:21
SPEAKER_01: Um, but no, it's true.
29:23
SPEAKER_01: So, like and just like in that podcast, we were saying uh one size doesn't fits all, right?
29:28
SPEAKER_01: It's the same thing for tests.
29:30
SPEAKER_01: There's limitations to each test.
29:32
SPEAKER_01: And even when you categorize something like an IgE true allergy, there's limitations to that.
29:37
SPEAKER_01: Because like I said, he didn't have any of the quote unquote common symptoms that you would that you would have if someone were to diagnose you with a true allergy, right?
29:47
SPEAKER_01: So he removed the short story, uh short ending of that is he removed the dairy, and that was his final missing trigger.
29:54
SPEAKER_01: And the loop is reversed, and so did, you know, the lime went away.
29:59
SPEAKER_01: So that is one of the markers that I use, even though it's not as common as hypersensitivities.
30:04
SPEAKER_01: That leads us to the third category, the third test, and that is for delayed hypersensitivity test.
30:10
SPEAKER_01: So this is for delayed hypersensitivities.
30:13
SPEAKER_01: I use the LRA, it's lymphocyte response assay.
30:18
SPEAKER_01: And um the reason why I use this one is because it measures six different response pathways.
30:30
SPEAKER_01: Okay, so most people are familiar with the IgE true allergy tests, right?
30:35
SPEAKER_01: A lot of us have heard of this because people with peanut allergies and such, um, with epi pens, this is a true allergy, and you go to your Western doctor to get that test done.
30:44
SPEAKER_01: And and this delayed hypersensitivities are vastly different than an IgE true allergy.
30:52
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
30:53
SPEAKER_01: A delayed reaction can take two hours or up to three weeks to present itself after exposure.
31:02
SPEAKER_01: Right?
31:02
SPEAKER_01: This makes them very hard to detect, especially if you're relying on something like diet elimination reintroduction.
31:08
SPEAKER_01: Because how are you going to track that for a whole three-week period and have some symptoms show up three weeks later and be like, oh, um, that was that fava bean that I ate.
31:17
SPEAKER_01: Like too hard to do that, right?
31:19
SPEAKER_01: So um so we test for using the lymphocyte response assay, and it tests for these different pathways.
31:28
SPEAKER_01: It does test for IgG, but it also tests for IgG4, IgA, IgM, what's called immune complex, and T T cell responses.
31:40
SPEAKER_01: Okay, so this is the only test I know of the tests for all six of those possible pathways.
31:47
SPEAKER_01: And when I say pathways, I mean if your body is exposed to a food that it sees as a trigger, then the systemic um inflammatory response will usually occur through one of these seven pathways.
32:04
SPEAKER_01: So the six in the delayed hypersensitivity response and the one in the true allergy response.
32:10
SPEAKER_01: So there's seven known pathways, so which means there's more, right?
32:14
SPEAKER_01: There's that's why there's limitations to all these tests.
32:16
SPEAKER_01: There have to be more.
32:17
SPEAKER_01: We know of these seven.
32:19
SPEAKER_01: I test for all seven.
32:20
SPEAKER_01: Those are all the seven step, those are all the pathways that we currently know.
32:25
SPEAKER_01: Um, the reason why I use the LRA response uh after is because not only does it test for all six of those categories, but it's what I call a functional test.
32:36
SPEAKER_01: So it's not a snapshot, right?
32:39
SPEAKER_01: Most tests that we use, especially in Western medicine, are snapshots in time.
32:43
SPEAKER_01: So it will tell you like calcium level in your blood in this exact moment, right?
32:49
SPEAKER_01: This test is different.
32:50
SPEAKER_01: What it does is it looks at your white blood cells or your lymphocytes, and they're actually looking at it under a microscope in real time, and they're testing it to different foods, and they're seeing how your white blood cell responds.
33:05
SPEAKER_01: Like, what is the inflammatory response of the white blood cell?
33:08
SPEAKER_01: So, in that sense, it's actually evaluating the body's delayed immune response in real time.
33:13
SPEAKER_01: Okay, so those are the tests that I use, and I combine them all together to have my overlays to try to get the best picture that I could possibly get in order to help someone figure out what they're supposed to be eating to reverse the disease.
33:28
SPEAKER_00: All right, questions or what helpful, very helpful.
33:31
SPEAKER_01: Good okay, yay! We made it through another one.
33:37
SPEAKER_01: We're really on a roll.
33:38
SPEAKER_01: Okay, now it's time to pass it back to you.
33:41
SPEAKER_01: Uh Joel, we have actually how much time do we have?
33:43
SPEAKER_00: Oh, we've got about five or six minutes.
33:45
SPEAKER_01: Oh, perfect.
33:46
SPEAKER_01: This is great for you then.
33:47
SPEAKER_01: Okay, this question comes from Peter Foster.
33:51
SPEAKER_01: He says, Okay, he's 68.
33:54
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
33:54
SPEAKER_01: Being 68, I'm not up for homesteading myself, but is there any fund to invest in to further young people getting into it?
34:04
SPEAKER_01: I have about$200,000 to invest and would consider 5% a very good return to further this worthwhile deal.
34:14
SPEAKER_01: I currently have$31,000 uh CD up for renewal.
34:20
SPEAKER_01: So this is totally a Joel question, not me.
34:26
SPEAKER_00: Oh wow.
34:28
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
34:28
SPEAKER_00: Um, well, first of all, uming is not like other investments.
34:41
SPEAKER_00: Uh some of you may know that well, so we have we have had numerous people over the years that want to buy a, well, I call it an agrarian bunker.
34:56
SPEAKER_00: You could call it a bug out place or a haven, but but a place that they don't want to leave town, they don't want to leave their house, but they want a place that if the wheels fall off, they can get to and know that they'll be okay.
35:10
SPEAKER_00: And so we've actually helped three or four or five of these folks um buy properties near us that we manage.
35:20
SPEAKER_00: And the biggest um surprise is when they uh invest in that is that there is no return.
35:29
SPEAKER_00: They're thinking, well, if I buy a house and rent it out, you know, I get a return this way.
35:34
SPEAKER_00: If I buy a commercial property, I you know get it out this way.
35:38
SPEAKER_00: Um in in agricultural land, the return on investment that you can get from renting or investing in that is somewhere in the neighborhood of um less than half a percent per year.
35:56
SPEAKER_00: And and so this is one of the biggest shocks to people.
36:01
SPEAKER_00: So, and I know that you're not just investing in land, you're talking about is there any investment that I can get my money back?
36:08
SPEAKER_00: Um I don't know of one that that does specifically what you're saying, that that that you know, the uh like a pool of money where where homesteaders or or people that are wanting to you know to begin farming, you know, could go there.
36:21
SPEAKER_00: Now there's an outfit um called Iroquois.
36:25
SPEAKER_00: Yes, uh spelled just like the Native American tribe, Iroquois.
36:30
SPEAKER_00: And what they do is they offer um deferred interest loans to startups.
36:37
SPEAKER_00: And I know some young people who have started farming as um who get that, you know, get that investment pool.
36:45
SPEAKER_00: I don't know if Iroquois needs a bigger pool.
36:49
SPEAKER_00: I'm assuming they can always use a bigger pool.
36:51
SPEAKER_00: I don't know that they would return 5%.
36:54
SPEAKER_00: Um, Woody Tash, who started Slow Money and has written the book Slow Money and Other Things, um what what Slow Money is doing is they are saying basically take your investment and do a tithe, do a tithe of of uh of of non not a return on investment.
37:24
SPEAKER_00: So so you you've got$100,000, put$90,000 in wherever you want to put it in, you know, Wall Street or whatever, but take 10% of that and put it in something that's meaningful, you know, that's actually healing and meaningful.
37:38
SPEAKER_00: And uh and and slow money is now handling a pool of, I think they're up into the$20 million range, which, you know, compared to Wall Street is a spit in the ocean.
37:49
SPEAKER_00: But it's a big enough pool now that they're actually funding some local uh commercial kitchen startups, so people that want to do value-added products, uh helping a young farmer, you know, um get put up some some tall tunnels for season extension.
38:04
SPEAKER_00: Um uh I know they've helped some uh small neighborhood abattoirs get started so there can be more slaughterhouse capacity for you know for uh craft uh um you know grass-based animals.
38:18
SPEAKER_00: They're concentrating in the in the food and food space slash a little bit of farming, but but primarily you know trying to upgrade the the food the food space.
38:29
SPEAKER_00: So um the problem, here's the problem that I've seen, and I've worked with numerous people like you, Peter, and and my you know, my you know, you bring me to tears, my heart just swells to to to you know uh get your your interest in this.
38:48
SPEAKER_00: Um I've got a couple of really specific uh practical reactions.
38:54
SPEAKER_00: Number one is a 5% return is too much for a startup.
39:00
SPEAKER_00: What startups need is a nest egg, a no-interest nest egg.
39:04
SPEAKER_00: Um and and the and and because there's just not enough money in that initial startup to pay uh that kind of of return.
39:15
SPEAKER_00: Most people starting in this space are trying to put together a nest egg that they can then that they can then uh pull from to finance whatever they're gonna start, you know, interest-free, because there's just not that much wiggle room.
39:28
SPEAKER_00: And and starting up is is uh fairly slow.
39:33
SPEAKER_00: It it's slow to get to where you have the the freedom to give that kind of a return on investment.
39:40
SPEAKER_00: Um the other thing is that what I see most what I see very too too often, and I've I've I've worked with numerous groups that are trying to germinate young farmers, is that when you're when when you've got a person who is a novice who doesn't know a lot about farming financing a novice who doesn't know much about farming, you've got two kind of novices coming together with money, and often it's a disaster.
40:14
SPEAKER_00: It's often a disaster.
40:16
SPEAKER_00: And so here it and and I don't want this to sound like it's you know um uh you know self-aggrandizing or anything, but in my experience, where this kind of investment money can be leveraged best is in an existing operation with a brand that's been in business for 10 years that that is ready to leverage to another level.
40:46
SPEAKER_00: So if there's if there's a farm business that's farming the way that you like that is poised to uh take a step forward, but they need financing, in my experience, that kind of scenario actually offers way better chance of success than trying to invest in first-time newbie farmers.
41:14
SPEAKER_00: And nobody loves first-time newbie farmers like I do, but but but but they're they're risky.
41:19
SPEAKER_00: They're risky.
41:20
SPEAKER_00: And a lot of young people coming to this don't have a clue of the lifestyle, the changes.
41:26
SPEAKER_00: You're not you're you're you're not gonna go to the movies every you know uh two nights a week.
41:30
SPEAKER_00: You're not gonna eat out, you're not gonna go on Caribbean cruises.
41:34
SPEAKER_00: It's a it's a real uh, you know, it it's it's a it's a commitment to a lifestyle thing.
41:41
SPEAKER_00: And and a lot of a lot of people they they think this is gonna be great.
41:46
SPEAKER_00: I I know because I work with them and I watch them be frustrated.
41:50
SPEAKER_00: Well, you know, when did you get out to do chores?
41:52
SPEAKER_00: Well, I had two cups of coffee and I caught up on the morning news.
41:56
SPEAKER_00: Hey, you've just burned an hour and a half of the most important daylight of the day.
42:01
SPEAKER_00: Get out there and get after it, you know.
42:03
SPEAKER_00: And so here at Polyface, one of the reasons that our apprentices and stewards are so successful when they leave here is because they immerse themselves in the lifestyle.
42:14
SPEAKER_00: The ones that don't like it don't proceed, the ones that do eat it up and are successful.
42:20
SPEAKER_00: But but at least they know what's going to be entailed in this.
42:24
SPEAKER_00: And so I won't belabor the point, but I think that if you have money to invest in this and your heart's in the right place, seek seek a good outfit that is that is poised to make a move, but they're starved for cash in a particular in a particular investment project or leverage and enable them to go to go farther than they could otherwise.
42:55
SPEAKER_00: I'm talking about a place that's probably been in business for 10 years.
43:00
SPEAKER_00: If they haven't been in business for 10 years, they're still, you know, it might still be a little bit shaky.
43:06
SPEAKER_00: Um and and that's where you actually might be able to get a return on investment and move it forward.
43:12
SPEAKER_00: I know, for example, two years, uh, uh a year, a year and a half ago, when we um when we bought, we we changed ownership in our slaughterhouse, uh, we needed about it was about$200,000.
43:26
SPEAKER_00: And absolutely we could have done a 5% interest, you know, on a loan like that, but we didn't, but we didn't um uh we we ended up going to um to farm credit and and got a loan from them, but we would have loved some 5% money, especially today, if we were wanting to make that kind of investment today.
43:47
SPEAKER_00: So there are these kinds of of specific investment opportunities.
43:52
SPEAKER_00: And uh there's but but there's no to my knowledge, there's no clearinghouse.
43:56
SPEAKER_00: There's no there's no single place where here's the matchmaking service.
44:00
SPEAKER_00: You know, like like indeed for employment or something like that.
44:04
SPEAKER_00: You know, there's no there's no matchmaking service right now.
44:07
SPEAKER_00: But I have mentioned slow money and I've mentioned Iroquois as two threads that you might want to look at for for possible uh places to to make some investment.
44:18
SPEAKER_01: Are you looking for investors?
44:21
SPEAKER_00: Am I looking for investors?
44:23
SPEAKER_00: Um no, our weak link is the the only investors we're looking for, in perfect transparency, is if somebody wants to invest in land for us to manage.
44:35
SPEAKER_00: We don't need cash for operations.
44:38
SPEAKER_00: Our operations cash is fine.
44:40
SPEAKER_00: Um, but because the because the land price is so far outside of agricultural um use, you know.
44:52
SPEAKER_00: So my sound bite is when mom and dad bought this, the the core farm here, we've now added to it in several years, but um, but when they bought the core farm, uh the land was 90 bucks an acre, and feeder calves were selling for 180 bucks, and you could grow half of one on an acre a year, which means you could get 90 uh per acre in production and the cost, the market value is 90 bucks an acre.
45:18
SPEAKER_00: That's a one to one value to annual production ratio.
45:22
SPEAKER_00: Follow me, 90 to 90.
45:23
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
45:24
SPEAKER_00: Today that land is$7,000 an acre.
45:28
SPEAKER_00: That calf is$700.
45:31
SPEAKER_00: You you take off half of it, that's$350.
45:34
SPEAKER_00: So$7,000 to$350 is now instead of a one-to-one ratio, it's a 20 to 1 ratio.
45:41
SPEAKER_00: And that's how much things have changed in my lifetime, and why uh why the the the price of farmland has no real um relationship now to its production to its production value.
45:59
SPEAKER_00: As a kid, every old timer in the community talked about in the 1940s and 50s being able to buy their farms and buy their land from the production of that land.
46:12
SPEAKER_00: Today, can it be done?
46:15
SPEAKER_00: Yes, it can be done.
46:18
SPEAKER_00: Um but but but only if you have an extremely um, I'm just gonna say if you have a really big head start.
46:31
SPEAKER_00: And so, so yeah, um, you know, if we put on chickens and orchard and turkeys and cows and and egg layers and gardening uh and and expensive uh whatever, you know, greens and microgreens, there is a way to layer enough things on to actually make it go.
46:54
SPEAKER_00: But but but but but it's very it's it's it's 20 times more difficult than it was, you know, uh years ago when the ratios were so different.
47:04
SPEAKER_00: And and that's why, that's why tax policy now, most localities um give a tax break for market value for farmland, because the farmland simply isn't generating that amount of income per acre that a commercial or a residential outfit does per uh you know in its cash flow.
47:24
SPEAKER_00: And so farmland, yeah, we're assessed at market value, but there's a formula, they even divide it into classes of soil, class one, class two, class three soil, to to actually recognize that yes, there's a market value, but but but the but the market value has no bearing on fertility, quality, or anything.
47:47
SPEAKER_00: Market value has to do a lot of times with viewscape, location, you know, what a city person will pay for this land, that's market value, but it's not it's not authentic, true agricultural value from a production standpoint.
48:04
SPEAKER_01: Oh that's a huge barrier to entry.
48:09
SPEAKER_00: Well it is, it is, it is, it's yeah, it is.
48:11
SPEAKER_00: It's it's the it's the single biggest barrier to entry, which is one reason why I'm an advocate of renting, um uh uh of renting uh because because agriculture land leases are based on true agricultural value.
48:27
SPEAKER_00: And and so so that's a place where uh and and and with the average farmer now 60 years old and so much land coming out of ownership, uh there has never been a better opportunity for leasing land um because a lot of it's a lot of it's being abandoned, abandoned by farmers who are dying or retiring or leaving the business and their kids don't want it.
48:53
SPEAKER_00: So there's a you know there's there's a there's a uh there's a silver lining on this whole thing that that land is becoming more available.
49:02
SPEAKER_00: Um, but it you know, it it's similar to Europe uh 250 years ago.
49:09
SPEAKER_00: You know, 250 years ago, you know, in Europe, a lot of the farmers don't own their land, like in Great Britain, you know, they have tenuridage where um most farmers actually have 99-year leases on land, and they have lease boards where a farmer can't.
49:25
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I was oh we're we're we're going long here, Cena, but um I was over there with a with a um uh a landowner in in Great Britain that owns 10,000 acres.
49:36
SPEAKER_00: He's a lord, uh lord and lady, you know, and the servants, the the the people in the house call him my lord, my lady him is like Charles Dickens all over again.
49:45
SPEAKER_00: But anyway, this this guy, this guy who's 10,000 acres, he has 140 farmers who lease from him his lands.
49:54
SPEAKER_00: And he he brought me over to do a seminar to try to get all these farmers to hear a different way of farming.
49:59
SPEAKER_00: He wanted to go no chemical, but he couldn't, he couldn't kick off any of these farmers that leased his lands because they have protection boards.
50:08
SPEAKER_00: And so he just showed me this, you know, this thing.
50:10
SPEAKER_00: Well, this guy's at 60 years, this guy's at 40 years, this guy's at 80 years, and they can actually inherit that they inherit their leases to their to the next generation, and they just continue and continue and continue.
50:22
SPEAKER_00: And so here this guy, you know, he's wanting to make a big change with his 10,000 acres, but he can't make any change because he can't change the minds of the farmers that lease from him.
50:31
SPEAKER_00: He can't change their rent, he can't get rid of them, and they're just there in these 99-year uh tenure tenurages.
50:37
SPEAKER_00: So, you know, it's it's a it's it's a real different uh a difference thing.
50:41
SPEAKER_00: Um but yeah, if if uh if Peter wants to reach out to me personally and and and run this, run this uh a little bit more, I'd be you know, I'm glad to glad to talk.
50:51
SPEAKER_00: But I I do actually spend a fair amount of time talking with people like this who have a big heart, they want to help, but too often they're coming from a framework of commercial and residential real estate investing and don't realize how different agriculture investing is.
51:09
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
51:10
SPEAKER_01: So I mean, based on what you're saying, could it maybe be a good investment if if someone had the capital to buy the agricultural land and lease it?
51:18
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
51:20
SPEAKER_00: You're not you're not gonna get a return on investment uh from the lease.
51:24
SPEAKER_00: The only time you'll get a good return is when you sell it.
51:28
SPEAKER_00: And uh that's unfortunate, but but yes, land values continue to grow, go up.
51:34
SPEAKER_00: Um, I mean, I mean, think about this, you know.
51:39
SPEAKER_00: Um yeah, the land values, I mean, they do cycle, but they definitely continue to go up because nobody's making any more land, you know, and so so land is is becoming more um more valuable.
51:54
SPEAKER_00: And um, and and that's why there are different things now being developed to try to, you know, to try to take land out of just the the the trading the trading marketplace.
52:07
SPEAKER_00: Um and yeah, that that's another whole topic for another another discussion.
52:13
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so if you're interested in that, send your questions and Joel will address that on the different podcasts.
52:19
SPEAKER_01: But no, this was Peter, that was a fantastic question.
52:22
SPEAKER_01: And I love I I like Joel, right?
52:26
SPEAKER_01: I love hearing from our our listeners.
52:28
SPEAKER_01: I I love to see the way you're thinking and the direction you wanted to go.
52:33
SPEAKER_01: This is so helpful for us.
52:34
SPEAKER_01: And it's just you know, you can just hear the compassion and and and the love and the curiosity in these emails, and it really keeps us going.
52:43
SPEAKER_01: So please keep sending them in.
52:45
SPEAKER_01: We're we love to answer them, we love to hear them.
52:48
SPEAKER_01: And um, thank you for joining us this week on another episode of Beyond Labels, and we will see you all next week.