Transcript

Sharri | 9 July · Sharri

0:01
Speaker 1: Live on Sky News.
0:03
Speaker 2: This is Sharry, Good Evening and welcome. Coming up tonight,
0:09
Speaker 2: Anthony Albernezi's set to announce a plan to tackle anti
0:13
Speaker 2: Semitism that includes outcomes from our.
0:16
Speaker 3: Sky New summit. I have those details in a moment.
0:20
Speaker 2: Also tonight, the Secrets of the mushroom Killer, Aaron Patterson's hidden.
0:24
Speaker 3: Addiction to true crime.
0:26
Speaker 2: That's coming up, plus why has Trump shut down the
0:29
Speaker 2: Epstein Files? I talk about this with world famous journalist
0:34
Speaker 2: Michael Schellenberger, and Penny Wong refuses to say if she's
0:39
Speaker 2: been duped by a Marco Rubio impersonator. But first tonight,
0:45
Speaker 2: new details are emerging about Aaron Patterson's life and what
0:49
Speaker 2: drove her to a point where.
0:51
Speaker 3: She killed three people with a deadly lunch.
0:55
Speaker 2: The journalist who originally broke the story, John Ferguson, has
0:59
Speaker 2: met Aaron Patterson and describes her as cold, mean and vicious.
1:04
Speaker 2: He says she's lied so much that it's now hard
1:07
Speaker 2: to determine fact from fiction. He points to the untruths
1:12
Speaker 2: about her having ovarying cancer, the use of her multiple phones,
1:17
Speaker 2: lies about foraging for mushrooms, whether she owned a dehydrator,
1:23
Speaker 2: and how she was wearing white pants on the day
1:26
Speaker 2: she claimed to be suffering from food poisoning as a
1:30
Speaker 2: result of the beef Wellington meal. Ferguson will be on
1:34
Speaker 2: the show tonight. He describes it beautifully, saying that at
1:38
Speaker 2: the center of her life was a pathetic graveyard of fiction.
1:44
Speaker 4: Not completely normal around the way she was responding, But
1:48
Speaker 4: the number one thing was that I could tell she's
1:50
Speaker 4: really bright. And that's kind of unusual because usually when
1:55
Speaker 4: you end up in these any sorts of big crime
2:00
Speaker 4: alleged crime stories, they tend to be if it's not
2:05
Speaker 4: white color crime, it tends to be lower as socioeconomic,
2:08
Speaker 4: whereas you could see here that's a woman or means,
2:11
Speaker 4: you know, from everything we're told, it's a good mother,
2:16
Speaker 4: you know, and extremely well educated. So there's a few
2:20
Speaker 4: sort of little differences in this story.
2:24
Speaker 2: And John Ferguson will be on the show a bit later.
2:27
Speaker 2: But even for someone who's unusual, as he says, and
2:31
Speaker 2: prone to lying, the cruel way in which Aaron chose
2:35
Speaker 2: to murder her in laws Don and Gail Patterson, and
2:39
Speaker 2: also Gail's sister Heather, is inexplicable. They suffered the excruciating
2:45
Speaker 2: pain of organ failure from the death cap mushrooms, a
2:50
Speaker 2: slow and painful death.
2:53
Speaker 3: It's a miracle that.
2:54
Speaker 2: Baptist pastor Ian Wilkinson survived after spending weeks in an
2:59
Speaker 2: induced come and given he was the only person to
3:02
Speaker 2: live after that death cat mushroom meal, his evidence was
3:07
Speaker 2: crucial during the trial. He said that he and his wife, Heather,
3:11
Speaker 2: were so sick after the lunch that they slept next
3:14
Speaker 2: to the toilets at their home before being taken to hospital,
3:18
Speaker 2: and the doctor who was on call at the hospital
3:20
Speaker 2: when Aaron arrived said she was faking symptoms, and he
3:25
Speaker 2: describes her in brutal terms. Doctor Christopher Webster said that
3:30
Speaker 2: she is a colorous, calculated killer.
3:34
Speaker 5: There is an eerie sort of disquiet that you have
3:39
Speaker 5: in her presence, but it's not the typical sort of
3:45
Speaker 5: scary ogre type fear that you have.
3:50
Speaker 6: It's more visceral than that. It's sort of, you know, her.
3:55
Speaker 5: Oddness gets under your skin and penetrates your brain. Then
4:01
Speaker 5: she's not it's not pleasant to be around her.
4:06
Speaker 2: When Aaron Patterson told doctor Webster that she bought the
4:09
Speaker 2: mushrooms at a supermarket, he said he knew she was guilty.
4:15
Speaker 6: Where to get the mushrooms?
4:16
Speaker 5: And that's when she said Wilworth And I'm like, yeah, okay,
4:21
Speaker 5: that's you're guilty.
4:23
Speaker 6: I knew from that moment.
4:27
Speaker 2: And the audio is now in the public domain for
4:29
Speaker 2: the call that he then made to police right after
4:33
Speaker 2: her hospital visit.
4:34
Speaker 7: This is doctor Chris Webster calling from Lee and Gatha
4:37
Speaker 7: Hospital and I have a concern regarding a patient that
4:43
Speaker 7: presented here earlier but has left the building and is
4:48
Speaker 7: potentially exposed to a fatal toxin from mushroom poisoning.
4:54
Speaker 2: And so began a lengthy police investigation. They found that
4:59
Speaker 2: Aaron led an isolated existence. She spoke about her upbringing
5:03
Speaker 2: in messages that were published by The Australian Today. In
5:07
Speaker 2: the messages, she said, we had a horrible upbringing. Mum
5:10
Speaker 2: was essentially a cold robot. It was like being brought
5:14
Speaker 2: up in a Russian orphanage where they don't touch the babies.
5:18
Speaker 2: Dad wanted to be warm and loving to us, but
5:20
Speaker 2: Mum wouldn't let him because it would spoil us.
5:23
Speaker 3: So he did as he was told.
5:26
Speaker 2: But none of that explains her cruel murder of three
5:29
Speaker 2: kind hearted elderly people, or her bizarre reaction to it.
5:36
Speaker 8: It's a tragedy.
5:37
Speaker 7: What's happened?
5:39
Speaker 3: Can you tell us about the meal that you pulled?
5:44
Speaker 7: So devastated by what's happened, but the loss of Donning.
5:50
Speaker 3: Don is still in hospital, the bossome Ian and Heather
5:54
Speaker 3: and Gale. It was some of the best people that
5:57
Speaker 3: I've ever met.
6:00
Speaker 2: Looking back at that now we know they were crocodile
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Speaker 2: tears shed for good, decent people that Aaron Patterson deliberately
6:08
Speaker 2: murdered in a cruel way with still no possible motive.
6:19
Speaker 4: Now.
6:19
Speaker 2: Prime Minister Anthony Alberzi will front the media tomorrow alongside
6:23
Speaker 2: Special Envoy Julian Siegel as she presents her plan to
6:27
Speaker 2: tackle anti Semitism. My understanding is that her recommendations will
6:32
Speaker 2: include many of those from our Sky News Antisemitism Summit.
6:37
Speaker 2: At the conclusion of our summit, Alex Ripchen from the
6:40
Speaker 2: Executive Council of Australian Jury presented a fifteen point plan to.
6:45
Speaker 3: Help tackle the crisis.
6:48
Speaker 2: Yet the Albenzi government entirely rejected it. Alberizi himself wrote
6:53
Speaker 2: a letter back refusing to adopt a single one of
6:56
Speaker 2: those recommendations. Of course, that was before the Federal election,
7:00
Speaker 2: when he was more worried about upsetting the Muslim community
7:05
Speaker 2: than taking proper action on the hatred against Jews. But
7:10
Speaker 2: the election is now over, and the antisemitism crisis, of
7:14
Speaker 2: course hasn't abated, with a synagogue firebombed and a restaurant
7:18
Speaker 2: stormed just on Friday night. And so tomorrow the Prime
7:23
Speaker 2: Minister will stand alongside Jillian Siegel and commit to taking
7:27
Speaker 2: action to protect the Jewish community. Now the question is
7:32
Speaker 2: whether the Prime Minister will support her plan, and my
7:36
Speaker 2: sources tell me he does already have a copy of
7:39
Speaker 2: her comprehensive report. His decision to hold a press conference
7:43
Speaker 2: on this topic this week comes after he's been under
7:47
Speaker 2: sustained pressure over his lack of action on antisemitism, and
7:51
Speaker 2: specifically he's been under pressure to commit to the fifteen
7:54
Speaker 2: point plan from our summit.
7:57
Speaker 1: He's like gutive.
7:58
Speaker 5: Counsel, an Australian jury is pleading with you to reconsider
8:01
Speaker 5: or to least to consider their February proposal to stop
8:04
Speaker 5: anti Semitism in Australia.
8:06
Speaker 1: Will you do that?
8:07
Speaker 6: And if not, why not.
8:08
Speaker 3: What we're doing is working with the Special Envoy.
8:12
Speaker 2: Shadow Foreign if As Minister Michaulia cash and Liberal Senator
8:16
Speaker 2: James Patterson put pressure on alban Easy to adopt.
8:19
Speaker 3: This plan on my show this week.
8:23
Speaker 9: He has been presented with a constructive list of recommendations
8:28
Speaker 9: by the people who have been affected most egregiously by
8:33
Speaker 9: antisemitism in this country.
8:36
Speaker 10: Is they thought that antisemitism would go away on its own,
8:39
Speaker 10: that it wouldn't require leadership, that it wouldn't require action,
8:42
Speaker 10: that it wouldn't require fortitude, that it wouldn't require strength.
8:45
Speaker 10: I hope they have now been absolved of that false assumption,
8:50
Speaker 10: because this is a crisis, it's an ongoing one, it's
8:52
Speaker 10: getting worse, and it requires leadership and action now.
8:57
Speaker 2: So, as I said, my understanding is that some of
8:59
Speaker 2: those recommends from our summit will be included in the
9:03
Speaker 2: plan Jillian Siegel announces tomorrow. But the question remains where
9:07
Speaker 2: the Albanesi and Tony Burke decide to adopt these recommendations.
9:12
Speaker 2: And if Albanezi does adopt them, well, why did he
9:15
Speaker 2: reject them earlier this year? And I can't help but
9:18
Speaker 2: wonder if it's because the election has come and gone.
9:22
Speaker 2: And if that's the case, the conclusion is that the
9:26
Speaker 2: Jewish community were the victims of political expediency where the
9:30
Speaker 2: Albaneze government didn't want to lose Muslim votes and so
9:34
Speaker 2: didn't confront the anti Semitism challenge. And this is a
9:39
Speaker 2: sobering thought and it is most likely the case. The
9:43
Speaker 2: change in tone from the Albanese government in recent days
9:48
Speaker 2: is noticeable and quite astonishing. Lifelong pro Palestinian activist Tony
9:53
Speaker 2: Burke seemed to grasp the gravity of the situation we're
9:57
Speaker 2: facing when he stood outside East mel And Synagogue on
10:01
Speaker 2: the weekend.
10:03
Speaker 11: Arson attacks, the chanting calls for death, other attacks and graffiti.
10:13
Speaker 11: None of it belonged to Australia, and they were attacks
10:17
Speaker 11: on Australia.
10:19
Speaker 2: The chanting calls for death, the vandalism, the graffiti, the
10:22
Speaker 2: fire bombing. This has all been going on for months
10:25
Speaker 2: and months and months, and in fact some of it
10:27
Speaker 2: started right after October seven. Yet we're only hearing this
10:32
Speaker 2: language now, and this change in sentiment is also reflected.
10:36
Speaker 3: In parts of the media as well.
10:39
Speaker 2: The ABC has been the worst perpetrator of anti Israel
10:43
Speaker 2: propaganda since October seven and before. There are too many
10:48
Speaker 2: examples to count of how they continually choose to portray
10:52
Speaker 2: Israel as the villain and make false claims about unethical conduct.
10:58
Speaker 2: There are experienced journalists who must know the truth but
11:02
Speaker 2: deliberately report.
11:03
Speaker 3: A biased view of the war.
11:06
Speaker 2: So it was refreshing and surprising to see some solid
11:09
Speaker 2: reporting this week on the ABC. The ABC seven to
11:13
Speaker 2: thirty program did put tough questions to the activists who
11:18
Speaker 2: stormed the Melbourne restaurant.
11:20
Speaker 12: Does that help your cause? Does it help your cause
11:23
Speaker 12: to be scaring diners on a Friday night in Melbourne?
11:26
Speaker 13: Imagine lying on a hospital bed in a tent as
11:30
Speaker 13: a displaced person, or trying to keep your starving children
11:34
Speaker 13: safe in a tent.
11:35
Speaker 12: But those people were just they're just going out for dinner,
11:38
Speaker 12: you know, they're just trying to have a nice dinner.
11:40
Speaker 12: On Hardware Lane, it must have occurred to you when
11:43
Speaker 12: you've seen the coverage that a lot of people find
11:46
Speaker 12: this very objectionable.
11:48
Speaker 13: Do they find the murder, naming, genocide objectionable?
11:54
Speaker 2: Norman Hermann's questions were spot on, and then ABC journalist
11:59
Speaker 2: Patricia Callis wrote a surprisingly great article where she makes
12:03
Speaker 2: some excellent and intelligent points. She says, there's been a
12:07
Speaker 2: suggestion that people who are repulsed by anti Semitism don't
12:12
Speaker 2: therefore care about Gaza, and she says this is a
12:16
Speaker 2: narrative that has been constructed to justify the unjustifiable. And
12:22
Speaker 2: she writes about how it's not just government and leaders
12:25
Speaker 2: who need to take action, but she says it's the
12:27
Speaker 2: collective responsibility of all to ensure that Jews feel like
12:32
Speaker 2: they belong as free citizens in our country. Patricia writes
12:36
Speaker 2: the attacks on Jewish people in Melbourne on Friday night
12:39
Speaker 2: should send chills down the spines of all Australians, Jewish
12:43
Speaker 2: and non Jewish who value diversity, culture, and the right
12:47
Speaker 2: to be safe. She says, I've seen online a view
12:51
Speaker 2: that we should only and exclusively be concerned about the
12:54
Speaker 2: death and destruction in Gaza, that by even discussing the
12:58
Speaker 2: anti Jewish attacks in Australia, we have somehow made a
13:01
Speaker 2: choice to accept what we see unfold in the Middle East.
13:05
Speaker 2: She says it's time to call out this dangerous binary.
13:10
Speaker 2: This is a false and despicable choice by bad faith
13:13
Speaker 2: actors unwilling to confront the frightening position they are putting
13:17
Speaker 2: Australian Jews in attacking Jews in restaurants, in synagogues and
13:23
Speaker 2: on our streets. Is deeply rooted in anti Jewish sentiment
13:27
Speaker 2: and in anti Semitism. How can it be an act
13:31
Speaker 2: of political expression and protest to.
13:33
Speaker 3: Target your fellow citizens?
13:36
Speaker 2: And she asks what kind of cognitive dissonance and radicalization
13:40
Speaker 2: has happened to convince anyone that this behavior is anything
13:45
Speaker 2: other than violent hate. Now you wouldn't blink an eelet
13:52
Speaker 2: at a at a column like that on Sky News
13:55
Speaker 2: or in the new Scott publications, but we haven't seen
14:00
Speaker 2: comprehensive coverage of antisemitism at the public broadcaster. And her
14:05
Speaker 2: message of collective responsibility to address this scourge carries weight
14:10
Speaker 2: coming from a senior journalist at the ABC, because too
14:16
Speaker 2: many of the ABC reporters are pro Palestinian activists who
14:20
Speaker 2: you'll never ever hear uttering a word about hatred against Jews.
14:27
Speaker 2: And so it's in this changing climate that finally Albanzi
14:31
Speaker 2: is expected to speak out tomorrow about antisemitism, and we
14:36
Speaker 2: hope he'll endors Jillian Siegel's action plan, some of which
14:41
Speaker 2: was developed during our summit, and standing up at the
14:44
Speaker 2: press conference alongside Albanesi will be Tony Burke. In twenty seventeen,
14:50
Speaker 2: the pair were headlining a policy forum on Palestine alongside
14:57
Speaker 2: anti Israel activist Bob Carr. Now this pair are in
15:03
Speaker 2: charge of solving the anti Semitism crisis. Now, we can
15:08
Speaker 2: never forgive alban Ezi, Burke, Penny Wong and others for
15:13
Speaker 2: how they've allowed this crisis to flourish, how they've put
15:18
Speaker 2: our families in danger, how they've ruined Australia causing it
15:23
Speaker 2: to be a violent, racist, unsafe.
15:26
Speaker 3: Country for Jews.
15:29
Speaker 2: But this is the federal government, our Australians, our fellow
15:32
Speaker 2: Australians elected. This is the government we've been dealt with
15:36
Speaker 2: at this point in time. And unless you're going to
15:39
Speaker 2: leave the country, well for as long as we continue
15:42
Speaker 2: to live here, we don't have another option. And so
15:46
Speaker 2: we need to urge the Albanzi government to take serious
15:49
Speaker 2: action on anti Semitism, and we need to hope that
15:54
Speaker 2: they fully endorse Jillian Siegel's.
15:56
Speaker 3: Action plan tomorrow.
16:02
Speaker 2: All right, let's bring in our panel now, big show
16:05
Speaker 2: coming up, as I said Michael Schellenberger shortly on the
16:08
Speaker 2: Epstein files, John Ferguson on the Mushroom case of it later,
16:11
Speaker 2: but now let's bring in former Victorian Liberal Party president
16:14
Speaker 2: Michael Kroger and a labor legend, Graham Richardson, great to
16:18
Speaker 2: see you both.
16:20
Speaker 3: Michael.
16:20
Speaker 2: We've had this antisemitism crisis for twenty one months now.
16:25
Speaker 2: Why do you think the Prime Minister is only taking
16:28
Speaker 2: it seriously now?
16:33
Speaker 14: Well, because when you have a second synagogue firebombing, when
16:36
Speaker 14: you get restaurants trashed by these radical left wing activists,
16:43
Speaker 14: when you get cars defaced, when you get another Jewish
16:48
Speaker 14: restaurant in Melbourne on the weekend defaced, it's getting worse
16:55
Speaker 14: and worse. And I think Albany's is the point now
16:58
Speaker 14: where under his watch and it'll forever be a staying
17:01
Speaker 14: on his Prime ministership. Things have deteriorated since Penny Wong's
17:05
Speaker 14: appauling comment after October seven that Israel needs to exercise restraint,
17:11
Speaker 14: and it's been downhill from there. So I think it's
17:14
Speaker 14: got to a point now where things are so bad
17:16
Speaker 14: he's being forced to do something he doesn't want to do.
17:19
Speaker 14: We know he doesn't want to do anything. He's a
17:21
Speaker 14: left wing pro Palestinian activist by historical definition, Tony Burke
17:26
Speaker 14: of all people, for goodness sake, Well, that'll give the
17:28
Speaker 14: Jewish community a great deal of comfort to have Albanezy
17:31
Speaker 14: and Burke up there on the padium.
17:35
Speaker 6: All you need is.
17:36
Speaker 14: Penny Wong and that'll send people right off. So I
17:39
Speaker 14: think he's been forced in to do something through sheer,
17:41
Speaker 14: embarrassment and outgoing And now with the comments you've just
17:45
Speaker 14: reported of the ABC and Patricia Cavellis, this is now
17:49
Speaker 14: widening away from the Jewish community and right thinking Australians
17:53
Speaker 14: to a lot of other people who think that's got
17:56
Speaker 14: to stop.
17:56
Speaker 6: It's got to stop.
17:57
Speaker 3: And maybe that's maybe that's what it is.
18:00
Speaker 2: Maybe it's now he's under pressure from other media outlets,
18:03
Speaker 2: not just Newscott I think so.
18:05
Speaker 8: Rich.
18:06
Speaker 2: As Michael just points out, we know a leopard can't
18:09
Speaker 2: change its spots. So do you have any confidence that
18:12
Speaker 2: Tony Burke and ALBINIZI are going to suddenly take this
18:15
Speaker 2: issue seriously.
18:17
Speaker 15: I believe they've always taken it seriously. It's just they
18:21
Speaker 15: have a different view, I think to a lot of people,
18:25
Speaker 15: including yourself and probably me, I understand that. I think
18:32
Speaker 15: I've never liked the view that Anthony or Tony have
18:36
Speaker 15: on this, even as a labor men. I can't justify that.
18:42
Speaker 15: I think they're wrong, and I've always had the same
18:46
Speaker 15: view on this question.
18:49
Speaker 2: I mean, I don't mean to disagree, but I think
18:52
Speaker 2: you can have a different view on the wall, But
18:56
Speaker 2: on racism, I just don't think you can have a
18:59
Speaker 2: different view. I think there's right and there's wrong, and
19:02
Speaker 2: anti Semitism is wrong, and they should have acted on it,
19:06
Speaker 2: you know, nearly two years ago, twenty It could three months.
19:09
Speaker 6: It could have been done sooner.
19:11
Speaker 15: It could have been done sooner exactly.
19:14
Speaker 2: All right, Let's turn to Trump's announcement today that he
19:16
Speaker 2: plans to slap tariffs on pharmaceuticals and copper.
19:20
Speaker 16: Here he was, we'll be announcing something very soon on pharmaceuticals.
19:25
Speaker 16: We're going to give people about a year a year
19:27
Speaker 16: and a half to come in and after that they're
19:29
Speaker 16: going to be tariffed. If they have to bring the
19:30
Speaker 16: pharmaceuticals into the country, the drugs and other things into
19:34
Speaker 16: the country, they're going to be tariffed at a very
19:36
Speaker 16: very high rate, like two hundred percent. We'll give them
19:40
Speaker 16: a certain period of time to get their act together.
19:43
Speaker 2: Yeah, so two hundred percent absolutely massive. Or here was
19:46
Speaker 2: the Treasurer reacting to the news.
19:49
Speaker 4: They're obviously very concerning developments.
19:52
Speaker 1: We are talking about billions of.
19:53
Speaker 4: Dollars of exports to the US when it comes to pharmaceuticals.
19:58
Speaker 2: And Michael, this will increase the sure on Albin easy
20:01
Speaker 2: to get a deal done, but he's not in any
20:03
Speaker 2: position to do that when he has zero relationship with
20:06
Speaker 2: the President.
20:10
Speaker 14: Well, that's true, Shari. And the problem is he cannot
20:13
Speaker 14: go to the White House. I mean, this is the
20:16
Speaker 14: bizarre thing. And Greg Sheridan has basically pointed this out
20:20
Speaker 14: on numerous occasions. You've got the Prime Minis of Australia
20:24
Speaker 14: who can have four meetings with the communist leader of China,
20:27
Speaker 14: one of the most repressive regimes in the world.
20:30
Speaker 1: He can have four meetings with him.
20:32
Speaker 14: He's more comfortable visiting China, but can't visit our trading
20:37
Speaker 14: partner and major historical ally and the country with him
20:40
Speaker 14: we've been to war on any number of occasions. Why
20:43
Speaker 14: he cannot risk a meeting in the White House. He
20:46
Speaker 14: cannot sit in the White House and run the risk
20:47
Speaker 14: of a Zelenski moment because in that meeting in the
20:50
Speaker 14: White House, our ambassador will have to be there, Kevin Rudd.
20:54
Speaker 14: So you've got Rudd standing there behind one of those couches.
20:57
Speaker 14: Given all the things he said about Trump. And but
21:00
Speaker 14: he's given what he said about Trump at at that festival.
21:04
Speaker 14: You got jd Vance sitting there. Who knows what Vans
21:07
Speaker 14: might say to say it cross the room to Kevin right,
21:10
Speaker 14: aren't you the bloke that called our president, you know,
21:13
Speaker 14: a threat to democracy, a crazy man, etcetera, etcetera. That
21:16
Speaker 14: meeting could that meet a village idiot. That meeting could explode.
21:20
Speaker 14: Now in the conference of how these things work, Albany's
21:22
Speaker 14: advisors will have sat with him and said, listen, we
21:24
Speaker 14: can't go to an overlops meeting. Try and get him
21:27
Speaker 14: on the sides of one of these conferences where you
21:30
Speaker 14: can be photographed with him, had cameras shaking hands, so
21:34
Speaker 14: you can say I've had a meeting with him. But
21:36
Speaker 14: for goodness sake, they've said to him, you cannot risk
21:38
Speaker 14: a Zelenski moment in the White House because that will
21:40
Speaker 14: live on in Australia in US history forever. And that's
21:43
Speaker 14: why you can't go to the White House. That's why
21:45
Speaker 14: I can't have a meeting. And isn't that bizarre. We
21:47
Speaker 14: can't meet our major ally, Yet he can meet the
21:49
Speaker 14: communist leadership in China on four occasions. It's totally bizarre, Shari.
21:53
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean he was.
21:54
Speaker 2: I reported this a couple of months ago that he
21:56
Speaker 2: was a few months ago. He was desperately trying to
21:58
Speaker 2: get a phone call. But now maybe he doesn't even
22:01
Speaker 2: want the meeting. As you say, Richo, would you say
22:04
Speaker 2: this is the worst relationship Australia has had with America
22:09
Speaker 2: since the Whitlam government.
22:11
Speaker 15: Yeah, I would.
22:15
Speaker 3: Do you want to expand on that?
22:17
Speaker 15: I think this is deplorable now. I think we have
22:23
Speaker 15: got to take into account the fact that you're only
22:26
Speaker 15: ever going to have one ally like the United States.
22:29
Speaker 15: You're only ever going to have one nation that can
22:32
Speaker 15: put an umbrella over you and try and put.
22:36
Speaker 3: Well, I think we're losing Richo's audio a bit there.
22:39
Speaker 15: Kick from the oh sorry, can you hear me?
22:43
Speaker 7: Now?
22:43
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're cutting in and out. Your audio is cutting
22:46
Speaker 2: in and out. We might move on to the next topic, Michael.
22:51
Speaker 2: This has been quite a big story today. It's the
22:54
Speaker 2: latest gender face. A convicted double murderer has requested to
22:58
Speaker 2: be transferred to a women's prison after suddenly identifying as
23:02
Speaker 2: a woman. This is nineteen years into his forty three
23:06
Speaker 2: year sentence.
23:08
Speaker 3: A murderer.
23:10
Speaker 2: The acting news otherwise Premier Ryan Park told the Telegraph
23:14
Speaker 2: that this isn't going to be happening. He doesn't find
23:16
Speaker 2: it acceptable. He doesn't think the community would find it acceptable.
23:19
Speaker 2: But Michael, this is getting ridiculous, isn't it.
23:25
Speaker 14: I think mister Park's words probably echo those of the
23:29
Speaker 14: majority of the Austrainian public. Sad and as difficult as
23:34
Speaker 14: circumstances are of the convicted double murderer and his personal
23:40
Speaker 14: circumstances as difficult as they are with in relation with sexuality,
23:44
Speaker 14: I don't think it's reasonable let that person haven't committed
23:47
Speaker 14: to murders be transferred to a women's prison. So no,
23:50
Speaker 14: I think I agree with mister Park, who's right again
23:53
Speaker 14: as he was the last time we spoke about him.
23:55
Speaker 2: Absolutely, he is one of the excellent ministers in them
24:00
Speaker 2: men's government. But this is the issue with this policy
24:03
Speaker 2: where people believe that any man is a woman. I mean,
24:07
Speaker 2: this is where it ends in circumstances like this, it's
24:10
Speaker 2: just bizarre. Michael Kroeger, thank you so much for your time.
24:14
Speaker 2: And if riche's there, well, hopefully a better.
24:16
Speaker 3: Audio next week.
24:18
Speaker 2: All right, Well, the White House has been fending off
24:21
Speaker 2: controversy this week after it shut down, claims that there's
24:24
Speaker 2: an incriminating Epstein client list. We've heard about the Epstein
24:28
Speaker 2: list for a long time now, and then suddenly there
24:31
Speaker 2: was this official memo that said it is the determination
24:35
Speaker 2: of the Department of Justice and the FBI that no
24:38
Speaker 2: further disclosure would be appropriate or warranted. Now, key members
24:44
Speaker 2: of Trump's team had promised transparency on this topic, and
24:48
Speaker 2: it was a key point of interest among the Maggot base,
24:51
Speaker 2: and previous comments from Attorney General pat and Bondai also
24:55
Speaker 2: suggested that this document, this list not only existed, but
25:00
Speaker 2: that she had it on her desk.
25:03
Speaker 14: The DOJ may be releasing the list of Jeffrey Epstein's clients.
25:08
Speaker 12: Well that really happen.
25:09
Speaker 8: It's sitting on my desk right now to review.
25:14
Speaker 3: Now she says there's no list.
25:16
Speaker 2: So is there something here or is it all just
25:18
Speaker 2: wild speculation? Well, President Trump was asked about it today.
25:22
Speaker 2: He certainly didn't appreciate the question, and it was during
25:25
Speaker 2: a cabinet meeting.
25:26
Speaker 3: Have a look, are you.
25:28
Speaker 7: Still talking about Jeffrey in Epstein.
25:30
Speaker 16: This guy's been talked about for years. You're asking me,
25:34
Speaker 16: we have Texas we have this, we have all of
25:36
Speaker 16: the things, and are people still talking about this guy,
25:40
Speaker 16: this creep That is unbelievable.
25:45
Speaker 2: I spoke about all of this with world famous journalist
25:48
Speaker 2: and author Michael S.
25:49
Speaker 3: Shellenberger a little earlier.
25:52
Speaker 2: Michael Shellenberger, thank you so much for your time today.
25:55
Speaker 6: Thanks for having me.
25:57
Speaker 2: Now, there was this expectation that under the Trump had
25:59
Speaker 2: been fustration we'd see the release of the so called
26:02
Speaker 2: Epstein files. But we've now seen the Department of Justice
26:06
Speaker 2: and the White House claim there aren't any files.
26:10
Speaker 3: What do you think the truth is here?
26:12
Speaker 17: I think that what I think is what I think
26:15
Speaker 17: most reporters here think and most of the public think,
26:18
Speaker 17: which is that there's a lot of files. I mean that,
26:21
Speaker 17: you know, the Attorney General said it at truckloads full,
26:24
Speaker 17: you know, tens of thousands of videos. Epstein's victims had
26:27
Speaker 17: said that there were that they were videotaping the sexual activity,
26:34
Speaker 17: sexual abuse, the sex trafficking.
26:36
Speaker 6: You look most people that have covered.
26:38
Speaker 17: This, and by the way, it's it's left wing, right wing,
26:41
Speaker 17: mainstream news media, Miami Herald. I mean, it's pretty widely
26:46
Speaker 17: held among the journalists that have covered this that this
26:48
Speaker 17: was a sex blackmail operation with ties to the intelligence community,
26:55
Speaker 17: the Central the former director of the Central Intelligence Agency,
26:59
Speaker 17: was at Epstein's apartment multiple times. That was reported by
27:02
Speaker 17: the Wall Street Journal. Bill Gates famously was there and
27:05
Speaker 17: his ex wife told reporter that it was a major
27:10
Speaker 17: reason for their divorce. This is serious business because it's
27:15
Speaker 17: not just about sex trafficking. It's about really the undermining
27:20
Speaker 17: of democracy potentially if they're entrapping politicians in you know,
27:25
Speaker 17: sex blackmail operations. You know, you have both the attorney
27:29
Speaker 17: of the Attorney General, you have the director of the FBI,
27:31
Speaker 17: the deputy director of the FBI, who have all said that.
27:35
Speaker 6: This is that there's a lot here.
27:37
Speaker 17: You know, before Trump was elected, his director of the FBI,
27:42
Speaker 17: Cash Battel.
27:43
Speaker 6: Said that that the.
27:45
Speaker 17: There was a cover up occurring because of the people
27:48
Speaker 17: on the list. The deputy director said that foreign intelligence
27:51
Speaker 17: from some Middle Eastern nation was involved in this, which
27:54
Speaker 17: most people interpret as Israel. So there's just a lot here.
27:58
Speaker 17: And I will say credit Trump's supporters. They have not
28:03
Speaker 17: taken what the Trump administration has said at face value.
28:07
Speaker 6: They're demanding answers.
28:09
Speaker 17: They've shown a lot of independence here, which I think
28:11
Speaker 17: is a positive assign for our democracy. It's sort of
28:14
Speaker 17: one of the side things that's come out of it.
28:17
Speaker 2: Well, there were high expectations that we'd have a new
28:20
Speaker 2: era of transparency in this administration, and this was one
28:23
Speaker 2: of the key fields. There are others, of course, But
28:26
Speaker 2: when it comes to the Epstein issue, we saw accusations
28:30
Speaker 2: from Elon Musk that Donald.
28:31
Speaker 3: Trump was named in the files.
28:34
Speaker 2: Musk of course deleted that x post and removed those
28:37
Speaker 2: allegations publicly. But do you think there might be any
28:40
Speaker 2: basis to the fact that Trump may be mentioned in
28:44
Speaker 2: some capacity and that could be why the full files
28:48
Speaker 2: aren't being released at the moment.
28:50
Speaker 17: I mean, you know, look, I mean, Trump had a
28:52
Speaker 17: relationship with Jeffrey Epstein. That's bringing well documented. There's photographs,
28:56
Speaker 17: there's videos. Trump has talked about it. Trump has repeatedly
28:59
Speaker 17: said that he did not engage in any inappropriate behavior,
29:03
Speaker 17: you know, I mean, I think the best argument that
29:06
Speaker 17: there is nothing linking Trump to Epstein is that the
29:10
Speaker 17: people that tried to prevent Trump from becoming president tried
29:14
Speaker 17: to put him in prison. They tried to prevent him
29:16
Speaker 17: from running for office in a variety of ways. They
29:18
Speaker 17: trumped up a lot of charges, trying to turn misdemeanors
29:23
Speaker 17: into felonies, all in the so called lawfair to prevent
29:26
Speaker 17: Trump from becoming president. If they had Trump tied to Epstein,
29:30
Speaker 17: I don't know why they wouldn't have used it.
29:34
Speaker 5: You know.
29:34
Speaker 17: On the other hand, if there's a lot of people implicated,
29:36
Speaker 17: maybe it's considered you know, the nuclear option, and there's
29:40
Speaker 17: just so many people implicated. I mean AGAINI the current
29:43
Speaker 17: FBI director last year said that there were people in
29:47
Speaker 17: Congress who were implicated by this, So you know, we
29:50
Speaker 17: don't know. But like you said, you know, it's the
29:53
Speaker 17: con It's not like if this were happening in context
29:56
Speaker 17: where we were getting transparency and disclosure on a lot
29:59
Speaker 17: of other major conspiracies and I don't mean theories, I
30:03
Speaker 17: mean proven conspiracies, then I think the response from Trump's
30:08
Speaker 17: base would have been different. But the reality is they
30:12
Speaker 17: just haven't delivered on this particular part of Trump's campaign promise,
30:16
Speaker 17: which was not just transparency but also really reforming the
30:19
Speaker 17: intelligence community, which we haven't done for fifty years, and
30:22
Speaker 17: I think most people think we need to do.
30:25
Speaker 2: Michael, I just want to ask you about the devastating
30:28
Speaker 2: tragedy of the flash floods in Texas, the warning systems
30:32
Speaker 2: were massively inadequate, and we're seeing school children who lost
30:37
Speaker 2: their lives.
30:38
Speaker 3: Because of it. Is this a leadership issue and what
30:41
Speaker 3: needs to happen now?
30:42
Speaker 17: Yeah, it's a really great question. I think that the
30:45
Speaker 17: first thing is that whenever there's a natural disaster, the
30:48
Speaker 17: media says it was completely unprecedented, that there had never
30:53
Speaker 17: been extreme weather that we'd seen before, and therefore it
30:56
Speaker 17: was fundamentally about climate change.
30:59
Speaker 6: On this particular.
31:00
Speaker 17: Disaster, the media also said that it was because Trump
31:03
Speaker 17: had cut the budget for the National Weather Service. Both
31:06
Speaker 17: of those things have been debunked roundly. I think a
31:10
Speaker 17: credit to ACTS and social media for being able to
31:15
Speaker 17: spread the truth on this. But the fact of the
31:17
Speaker 17: matter is that precipitation is actually declined in that part
31:20
Speaker 17: of Texas, that in fact, flooding has been going on
31:25
Speaker 17: for a very long time.
31:27
Speaker 6: In fact, the.
31:27
Speaker 17: Flooding was going on for so long that it was
31:30
Speaker 17: something that people had that the locals had tended to ignore.
31:34
Speaker 17: I mean, I think that this is one of the
31:36
Speaker 17: very important things that comes out of these disasters, is
31:39
Speaker 17: that you know, it was raining very hard and there
31:42
Speaker 17: was you know, there was this flood risk and there
31:45
Speaker 17: people did know about it, but they had been warned
31:47
Speaker 17: for so often. So I think the other lesson is
31:50
Speaker 17: you have to you really have to have the government
31:53
Speaker 17: go and either evacuate people, require that people leave. And
31:57
Speaker 17: then yeah, it's just what you said, you know, it's
31:59
Speaker 17: basically very simi bull. It's you know, it's these big
32:01
Speaker 17: warning systems, these big loud speakers on you know, up
32:05
Speaker 17: high and because they think people are their phones or
32:08
Speaker 17: their phones are out of service.
32:10
Speaker 6: So I think that's just.
32:11
Speaker 17: The hard lesson from it is that you know, they
32:14
Speaker 17: had you know, been going on.
32:15
Speaker 6: Since the eighties, the flooding, so.
32:17
Speaker 17: There was a proposal to have these big loud speakers
32:19
Speaker 17: and warning systems.
32:20
Speaker 1: They didn't do it.
32:21
Speaker 6: Of course, there's some cost involved.
32:23
Speaker 17: Obviously that looks ridiculous given the deaths and destruction that
32:27
Speaker 17: have occurred. But yeah, I think that's one of the
32:29
Speaker 17: lessons is that you just have to have these sirens
32:32
Speaker 17: in place to really raise the alarm and cut and
32:35
Speaker 17: make a difference between just a mild mannered warning and
32:38
Speaker 17: a really serious one.
32:40
Speaker 2: And in fact, in that area I read that in
32:42
Speaker 2: nineteen thirty two there was also major flooding.
32:44
Speaker 3: So you're right, this has been an ongoing.
32:46
Speaker 2: Issue for the area and they should have been more prepared. Michael,
32:49
Speaker 2: thank you very much for joining me once again.
32:52
Speaker 6: Always a pleasure. Good to see you, Sherry.
32:56
Speaker 3: Isn't it great? All right? Still to come?
32:58
Speaker 2: Will Alban Easy finally take action on anti Semitism? Advocate
33:02
Speaker 2: Marnie Pearlstein will join me live plus all the dirt
33:06
Speaker 2: comes out on the mushroom murderer Aaron Patterson. We'll find
33:09
Speaker 2: out her secret addiction to true crime.
33:12
Speaker 3: That's after this quick break, Welcome back.
33:18
Speaker 14: Well.
33:19
Speaker 2: Now that Aaron Patterson's trial is over, the curtains are
33:22
Speaker 2: lifting on the.
33:22
Speaker 3: Mushroom murderer's past.
33:25
Speaker 2: New information about the extent of her lies and manipulative
33:28
Speaker 2: behavior are emerging now that the media is no longer
33:32
Speaker 2: gagged by the legal process, and this includes stories of
33:35
Speaker 2: multiple cell phones, lying about medical conditions and a ponschant.
33:40
Speaker 3: For true crime.
33:41
Speaker 2: No one has covered this case more closely than the
33:44
Speaker 2: associate editor at The Australian, John Ferguson, and I spoke
33:48
Speaker 2: with him a bit earlier. John Ferguson, you originally broke
33:52
Speaker 2: the story about Aaron Patterson. What can you tell us
33:56
Speaker 2: about the case now and about Erin now that you
33:59
Speaker 2: couldn't pot on while the trial was ongoing.
34:04
Speaker 1: Well, I suppose, Shari. It's the nature of the woman.
34:09
Speaker 4: She's a triple murderer, she's nasty, she's been indictive. I
34:15
Speaker 4: think she's controlling some of the things that were tried
34:19
Speaker 4: to be said about her husband. It was actually her untrustworthy,
34:23
Speaker 4: a serial liar, you know, someone that fundamentally you wouldn't
34:29
Speaker 4: want in your life.
34:31
Speaker 3: John.
34:32
Speaker 2: There's been a lot of discussion about what her motive
34:34
Speaker 2: could possibly be for murdering her in laws, kind hearted
34:38
Speaker 2: people and their relatives, and the attempted murder of a
34:42
Speaker 2: Baptist pastor as well.
34:44
Speaker 3: Why do you think she did this.
34:48
Speaker 4: I think it's revenge against her a strange husband, Simon.
34:53
Speaker 4: I think it was all about that. There's no sensible reason. Obviously,
34:59
Speaker 4: you don't go around killing people, which she has. But
35:03
Speaker 4: I think it was about that they just fell out,
35:06
Speaker 4: her and a husband, and their relationship became progressively worse.
35:12
Speaker 4: Her in the court that in late twenty twenty two,
35:15
Speaker 4: he changed his marital status to single, which had an impact,
35:22
Speaker 4: she believed on what income she could get potentially.
35:26
Speaker 1: From the federal government.
35:29
Speaker 4: And so at that point very much their relationship collapsed,
35:33
Speaker 4: and she obviously wanted to get back at him, and
35:39
Speaker 4: as we know, she invited him to that lunch on
35:42
Speaker 4: July twenty nine, twenty twenty three. You can only imagine
35:47
Speaker 4: that he was the prime target and these elderly people
35:51
Speaker 4: are collateral.
35:53
Speaker 2: And for someone who you have described as fairly intelligent, quite.
35:57
Speaker 3: Smart, did she really think she could get away with this?
36:01
Speaker 3: Was she not thinking about her children?
36:05
Speaker 4: Look, it's it's bewildering Sharie, to be honest, but you
36:11
Speaker 4: know she's We now know her. She's a convicted triple
36:14
Speaker 4: murderer and someone who attempted to kill another elderly person.
36:20
Speaker 4: The thing that's really hard, and it's coming up a
36:23
Speaker 4: little bit, is that she was a true crime sort of.
36:26
Speaker 4: I would say Nafie that basically she was really into
36:31
Speaker 4: true crime, but she hadn't focused on basic issues like
36:37
Speaker 4: you know, you can be tracked now very very readily
36:41
Speaker 4: that you know obviously your communications are anything you buy,
36:46
Speaker 4: you know, you go and buy food, dehydrate of your
36:48
Speaker 4: credit card, not only can they get the receipt, but
36:53
Speaker 4: if they want to, they can get the CCTV if
36:56
Speaker 4: he drops, if you drop into a petrol station on route,
37:00
Speaker 4: like she did the day after the murders, you know,
37:05
Speaker 4: she was seen there on the CCTV. It's a very
37:09
Speaker 4: different world we live in, but you would think a
37:11
Speaker 4: really highly intelligent woman, and she is. Her mother was
37:14
Speaker 4: a very well regarded children's literature academic. Her father was
37:21
Speaker 4: very bright, her sister's extremely bright. You know, these were
37:26
Speaker 4: seriously well read people, but really not very practical zero
37:32
Speaker 4: zero practical life skills.
37:34
Speaker 1: I would have thought. I mean a story that I wrote.
37:40
Speaker 4: Soon after the convictions about her time working as an
37:44
Speaker 4: air traffic controller.
37:46
Speaker 1: She was really dysfunctional.
37:47
Speaker 4: She basically, you know, this is a bit harsh, but
37:51
Speaker 4: she had poor hygiene, she didn't get on with She
37:54
Speaker 4: was quite terse and angry towards people. I've spoken to
37:59
Speaker 4: Aaron Patterson and she's a very unpleasant woman. And obviously
38:04
Speaker 4: now she's a triple murderer as well.
38:07
Speaker 2: Yeah, I didn't realize she was a true crime night
38:10
Speaker 2: as you say, was she into true crime fiction or
38:13
Speaker 2: television programs.
38:18
Speaker 1: Fiction?
38:18
Speaker 4: And she was also she had a large network of
38:23
Speaker 4: friends online that were interested in cases, true crime cases.
38:29
Speaker 4: And this is where her social network was basically she
38:33
Speaker 4: didn't have many friends at all at land Gatha where
38:37
Speaker 4: she was living.
38:38
Speaker 1: But what she did have she had online friends.
38:40
Speaker 4: And they were all over Australia where they talked about
38:44
Speaker 4: true crime cases like the Kelly Lane case, which you
38:48
Speaker 4: would have heard of.
38:50
Speaker 1: That was one of them.
38:51
Speaker 4: And so that's where she got her social nourishment from.
38:55
Speaker 4: As it were, that basically her life wasn't lived deep
39:01
Speaker 4: within the land Gatha corn Borough communities.
39:04
Speaker 1: She lived it online and then of.
39:06
Speaker 4: Course she was Conversely, she was considered by the evidence
39:11
Speaker 4: to have been a good mother.
39:13
Speaker 1: I'm not sure how you can be a good mother.
39:14
Speaker 4: If you run around killing you your children's grandparents, But
39:19
Speaker 4: that was the evidence hurt in court.
39:22
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly.
39:23
Speaker 2: And was it true the reports we heard early on
39:25
Speaker 2: about scenes of death drawn on the walls in her house.
39:29
Speaker 3: Was that accurate?
39:31
Speaker 1: Yeah, that is accurate. So around two years ago, after.
39:37
Speaker 4: The news became public about this case, there were some
39:39
Speaker 4: weird scribblings on at the house that Aaron Patterson owned
39:44
Speaker 4: in corn Borough I think it was in Shelcotte Road,
39:47
Speaker 4: just basically referring to death and you know, rip of tombstone,
39:53
Speaker 4: that sort of thing that had been scribbled on the wall.
39:56
Speaker 4: Now we don't know who who did that, but it
40:01
Speaker 4: was very odd, and the people who came in to
40:04
Speaker 4: paint the house how to look at it and have gone, well.
40:06
Speaker 1: What's this all about. It's just really unusual.
40:10
Speaker 4: Now, it might have just been juvenile behavior by someone,
40:14
Speaker 4: but it's I can't recall going into a house where,
40:18
Speaker 4: in an educated person's house, where there's scrawlings on the
40:22
Speaker 4: wall about death and that sort of thing.
40:24
Speaker 1: It's really unusual.
40:25
Speaker 4: And I cannot stress how unusual Aaron Patterson is. When
40:30
Speaker 4: the four guilty verdicts were handed down, she was as
40:36
Speaker 4: she was still and emotionless as you could possibly be
40:42
Speaker 4: when they read out that Gyl Patterson, Simon's mother the
40:45
Speaker 4: guilty verdict. Then there was there was a slight movement
40:49
Speaker 4: in her throat, which it was very slight. I was
40:51
Speaker 4: only sitting i'd say one and a half to two
40:55
Speaker 4: meters roughly from her, so I was watching her very closely.
41:00
Speaker 1: That was it.
41:01
Speaker 4: But to the I suppose the naked eye, you know,
41:04
Speaker 4: ten or fifteen minutes made us away, you wouldn't have
41:07
Speaker 4: seen it. So, you know, this is a really odd
41:10
Speaker 4: cat that we're dealing with and you know, completely unusual,
41:14
Speaker 4: a multi millionaire in the lie of multis but worth
41:17
Speaker 4: a fair bit of money. She had a lot of
41:20
Speaker 4: reasons to live a prosperous.
41:25
Speaker 1: Normal life and she chose this path of murder.
41:29
Speaker 3: Yeah, such a bizarre case.
41:31
Speaker 2: And John, you've been right on top of it from
41:34
Speaker 2: the very beginning.
41:34
Speaker 3: Thank you so much for your time.
41:37
Speaker 1: Thank you, Shari.
41:39
Speaker 3: Okay still to come.
41:41
Speaker 2: Why won't Pennywong say whether she was one of the
41:43
Speaker 2: three foreign ministers duped by an AI impersonation of Marco Rubio?
41:49
Speaker 2: And can we trust that Albinizi and Tony Burke suddenly
41:52
Speaker 2: care about anti Semitism? Ahead of the announcement tomorrow, Advocate
41:56
Speaker 2: Martey Perlstin will join us live after this quick.
41:59
Speaker 3: Break Welcome back.
42:03
Speaker 2: As I spoke about earlier in the show, Alban Easy
42:05
Speaker 2: and Tony Burke are set to join Anti Semitism Envoy
42:09
Speaker 2: Gillian Siegel as soon as tomorrow morning as she presents
42:13
Speaker 2: her plan to combat antisemitism to discuss that's bringing our
42:17
Speaker 2: community Advocate Marni Pelstein, Marney.
42:19
Speaker 3: So good to see you in studio. Now.
42:22
Speaker 2: You know I mentioned this from time to time, just
42:24
Speaker 2: how depressing it's been to watch our country disintegrate since
42:30
Speaker 2: October seven. It's become a violent, racist country that feels
42:35
Speaker 2: increasingly unsafe for our Jewish community.
42:38
Speaker 3: Is this a sentiment that you share?
42:41
Speaker 8: I absolutely share this sentiment. I have often reflected on
42:46
Speaker 8: my grandparents' journey to this country from.
42:49
Speaker 3: Poland just before the Holocaust, trying.
42:52
Speaker 8: To get as far away from antisemitism as they could,
42:55
Speaker 8: and I think they would be turning in their graves
42:57
Speaker 8: right now. It is so depressing, And I think the
43:00
Speaker 8: Australian public are only seeing.
43:02
Speaker 3: The really big things that happen.
43:03
Speaker 8: You know, they're seeing the fire bombings of synagogues, and
43:07
Speaker 8: they're seeing vandalism of restaurants and cars.
43:10
Speaker 3: But what they're not seeing.
43:11
Speaker 8: Is our day to day lived experience and our kids.
43:13
Speaker 8: You know, who might the school that my children go to,
43:17
Speaker 8: Kids who are being harassed on their way into school,
43:19
Speaker 8: Eggs being thrown at school children, kids receiving death threats,
43:24
Speaker 8: people in progressive and artistic spaces who are losing work
43:28
Speaker 8: like that, just the smaller things that people aren't seeing,
43:31
Speaker 8: which is just so depressing and debilitating.
43:34
Speaker 2: And sometimes it feels inescapable because you know, the young kids,
43:37
Speaker 2: whether they're at school or at universities, they're confronting on
43:40
Speaker 2: a daily basis, certainly at most universities.
43:43
Speaker 3: And then it's.
43:44
Speaker 2: Inescapable online as well, social media. It's been so prolific
43:47
Speaker 2: they hate it.
43:49
Speaker 8: Is inescapable, and then even if they right now are
43:52
Speaker 8: traveling and wanting to get away from it and decide
43:54
Speaker 8: to go to a music festival somewhere, they.
43:57
Speaker 3: Cannot escape it exactly.
43:59
Speaker 2: Now, we don't know whether Albanize is going to commit
44:01
Speaker 2: to Jillian Siegel's recommendations tomorrow. We do know that some
44:06
Speaker 2: of her recommendations were adopted from our summit, our anti
44:10
Speaker 2: Semitism summit that you attended in February. That was that
44:14
Speaker 2: fifteen point plan that Alex Rifchin announced at the conclusion.
44:18
Speaker 3: Of our summit the same night. So you know what's changed.
44:21
Speaker 2: Why would ALBANIZI reject those recommendations in February and now
44:25
Speaker 2: perhaps be prepared.
44:26
Speaker 3: To adopt them.
44:28
Speaker 8: Well, I think in February it was it was pre election,
44:31
Speaker 8: so there was you know, wanting to stay safe before
44:35
Speaker 8: the election, but also I think you just seriously hoped
44:38
Speaker 8: that this problem would go away, and it hasn't gone away.
44:41
Speaker 3: It's just getting worse and worse and worse.
44:44
Speaker 8: And I honestly don't understand why some of those recommendations
44:47
Speaker 8: or all of the fifteen point plan wasn't implemented straight
44:50
Speaker 8: after it was delivered, especially number one, which was to
44:53
Speaker 8: call this problem a national emergency, which it is, because
44:57
Speaker 8: this is if this was any other group in this country,
45:00
Speaker 8: or any other crisis, it would have been dealt with
45:03
Speaker 8: quickly on a national level.
45:05
Speaker 3: I mean, if you look at the.
45:06
Speaker 8: Situation with early childcare safety, he's made national recommendations that
45:11
Speaker 8: are being accepted by all the states and territories, and
45:14
Speaker 8: I can't understand why that hasn't happened with anti Semitism.
45:18
Speaker 3: I just don't understand it.
45:19
Speaker 2: And that's why we held the summit, why we organized
45:22
Speaker 2: it in the first place, because they were the government
45:24
Speaker 2: wasn't doing anything. It was left to us to try
45:27
Speaker 2: and come us, as in the Jewish community, to try
45:29
Speaker 2: and come up with this which plan. If we're talking depressing,
45:33
Speaker 2: that's the most depressing part, because which other group of
45:36
Speaker 2: people in this country have to come up with their
45:38
Speaker 2: own safety plan.
45:40
Speaker 3: It actually was unbelievable as I sat.
45:43
Speaker 8: At that summit, thinking our community has been forced to
45:46
Speaker 8: come up with our own plan to try and keep
45:49
Speaker 8: ourselves safe because our government won't respond to this issue
45:53
Speaker 8: on a national basis.
45:55
Speaker 2: It's going to be very in a sense confusing for
45:58
Speaker 2: the community.
45:59
Speaker 3: We're used to this government constantly attacking.
46:03
Speaker 2: Israel and not taking issue of antisemitism seriously.
46:07
Speaker 3: Are we meant to now trust them that they're going
46:09
Speaker 3: to take action?
46:10
Speaker 8: No? I mean even if they do take action, the
46:13
Speaker 8: trust has gone. We've waited so long for something concrete
46:17
Speaker 8: to be done.
46:18
Speaker 3: We've seen a rise.
46:20
Speaker 8: We've seen a seven hundred percent rise in anti Semitic
46:23
Speaker 8: incidents in this country since October seven, twenty twenty three.
46:27
Speaker 8: There is no way, I think, on the whole that
46:30
Speaker 8: this community is going to trust the intentions of Albanzi,
46:34
Speaker 8: Wong and Burke.
46:35
Speaker 3: There's just no way.
46:36
Speaker 8: And there are too many other things that have been
46:38
Speaker 8: going on that show us that they actually don't have
46:41
Speaker 8: the best interests of our community at heart.
46:43
Speaker 3: And yet we have to learn to live with them.
46:45
Speaker 3: It's what we've got.
46:46
Speaker 2: Unfortunately, Marni, thank you so much for coming in and
46:50
Speaker 2: for joining me.
46:50
Speaker 3: Thank you, and of course for your strong advocacy. Thanks
46:53
Speaker 3: you know, Okay, still to come.
46:56
Speaker 2: Penny one refusing to answer questions about whether she was
46:59
Speaker 2: one of the three foreign ministers duped by.
47:02
Speaker 3: A Marco Rubio impersonator. That's after the break, welcome back.
47:09
Speaker 3: We're making global news today.
47:11
Speaker 2: Is this AI scam impersonating US Secretary of State Marco Rubio.
47:17
Speaker 2: The Washington Post reports that an impostor using AI to
47:21
Speaker 2: impersonate Rubio had contacted at least three foreign ministers, a
47:26
Speaker 2: US senator, and a governor. We put questions to Pennywong's office,
47:30
Speaker 2: but she's declined to comment on whether she was one
47:33
Speaker 2: of those contacted by the fake Secretary of State, citing
47:37
Speaker 2: security concerns. We joining me now is technology commentator Trevor Long. Trevor,
47:43
Speaker 2: thanks for your time. What do we know about this scam?
47:47
Speaker 18: Good intoning to show you this is the latest, you know,
47:50
Speaker 18: a long running range of AI scam. So basically what
47:53
Speaker 18: we're talking about here is impersonating Marco Rubia, either by
47:57
Speaker 18: voice or even by image. Now it's not clear which
48:01
Speaker 18: was used here, but my guess is their voice messages
48:04
Speaker 18: being sent on secure messaging apps and essentially, if you
48:07
Speaker 18: recognize a voice, you have a familiarity, and that is
48:10
Speaker 18: the trick, and it's being used in household scams let alone.
48:14
Speaker 18: At this level, it doesn't appear to have been successful
48:17
Speaker 18: in any way, but it opens up a huge range
48:20
Speaker 18: of security concerns for governments worldwide. Given that you know,
48:23
Speaker 18: picking up the phone and calling your counterpart, maybe we
48:26
Speaker 18: need to question whether or not it's really that person
48:28
Speaker 18: on the other end of the line.
48:30
Speaker 2: I'd argue that it is in the public interest to
48:33
Speaker 2: know which foreign ministers were contacted. We need to know
48:36
Speaker 2: which security systems.
48:38
Speaker 3: Need to be improved.
48:39
Speaker 2: If it is Australia, I think we should we do
48:42
Speaker 2: deserve to know that. But clearly this type of fraud
48:45
Speaker 2: is only going to become more common as AI develops.
48:51
Speaker 1: That's right.
48:52
Speaker 18: Well, the bigger thing here, like alongside the AI is
48:55
Speaker 18: the vulnerability of getting access to someone directly. So if
49:00
Speaker 18: foreign minister, as for example, was contacted where they contacted
49:03
Speaker 18: directly on their own mobile device, therefore does the scammer
49:07
Speaker 18: have access to that person's personal details and able to
49:10
Speaker 18: contact them directly? And secondly, how more detail will they
49:14
Speaker 18: exploit them using AI? Because you've got to remember that
49:17
Speaker 18: using AI with someone as high profile as Marco Rubio,
49:20
Speaker 18: you could easily create a video that looks like they're
49:23
Speaker 18: talking to you using their voice, So we have to
49:26
Speaker 18: be very cautious from a national security level. How seriously
49:30
Speaker 18: we take communications outside of the old school, you know,
49:33
Speaker 18: big red phone in the office desk.
49:36
Speaker 2: It's also an issue with whether you can trust content.
49:39
Speaker 2: Can you trust video that you see online, particularly if
49:44
Speaker 2: it is of well known people or politicians doing various
49:47
Speaker 2: or nefarious things. I mean, this is going to become
49:49
Speaker 2: really difficult in the future. In ten seconds, Trevor, is
49:53
Speaker 2: there a way to verify whether videos AI or not.
49:59
Speaker 18: The only way to vary something is to have essentially
50:01
Speaker 18: a secret code word. Great, great suggestion for families, have
50:04
Speaker 18: a code word that only you and your family know it.
50:06
Speaker 18: In this case, only a foreign minister knows. That way,
50:09
Speaker 18: If the AI doesn't mention the code word, it's.
50:10
Speaker 2: Not real, very scary, all right, Trevor, Great to see you.
50:13
Speaker 2: I'll see you tomorrow at eight. And here's poor Mari