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DID GEORGE AND CINDY ANTHONY LIE? · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Greece.
• 0:14
  Speaker 2: Why won't this woman go away? Taught Mom Casey Anthony.
• 0:21
  Speaker 2: Her parents have been through hell, hell, all because of her,
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: And in the most recent incarnation of their living hell,
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: George and Cindy Anthony take.
• 0:40
  Speaker 3: Polygraphs.
• 0:43
  Speaker 2: Polygraphs, so if you had any doubt about what they
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: testified to at trial, this should define for you the truth.
• 0:58
  Speaker 2: Were they telling the truth or not? So their hell
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: is still ongoing. They did this voluntarily, They were not
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: in court ordered to. They did it as part of
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: a pretty incredible A and E special called Casey Anthony's
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: parents the lie Detector Test. But can you imagine this
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: much after? I mean, I really don't like talking about
• 1:26
  Speaker 2: my fiance's murder and I hate it when other people
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: bring it up without me being prepared for it. Can
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: you imagine the excruciating pain they went through taking this
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: polygraph all about Kelly's murder? And remember Kelly, Little Kelly
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: was like a daughter to them because their real daughter.
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: Top Mom Casey Anthony had relinquished all responsibility of taking
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: call of her own child. They are the ones that
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: fed her, They are the ones that paid for all
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: of her expenses, bought her clothes, made her meals, took
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: care of her, not her mother, not taught mom, Casey
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: Anthony was George and Cindy. Can you imagine what they
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: have been through looking for Kelly, hoping against hope that
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: she was still alive somehow.
• 2:27
  Speaker 3: Some wear, some way, and then finding out not only is.
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: This beautiful little girl dead, she's been murdered and she
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: has been in a trash bag and a swamp not
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: far from their home. They would drive by her body
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: every day.
• 2:47
  Speaker 3: How do they still drive by that spot? But they do.
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: I've been there and you have to drive by it
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: when you leave their neighborhood.
• 2:57
  Speaker 3: And now this you know, taught mom, Casey.
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: Anthony is sucking like a tick every ounce of press
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: in media that she can gain from this.
• 3:15
  Speaker 3: I mean, as he Grace, this is Crime Stories.
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: Thank you for being with us here at Crime Stories
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: and on series XEM one eleven.
• 3:22
  Speaker 3: In case you've been living under a rot.
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: In a cave on the other side of the country,
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: you must have heard this before listen.
• 3:34
  Speaker 4: I call would have been good to defy shiff say.
• 3:36
  Speaker 4: I found out my grandfather has some trick and she
• 3:39
  Speaker 4: has been listening for a third but you've been missed. Okay,
• 3:43
  Speaker 4: what is he now?
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: Okay?
• 3:45
  Speaker 5: What is the actress that you're calling from?
• 3:48
  Speaker 4: Spring Drive?
• 3:49
  Speaker 6: We're talking about seven ways through H O P E.
• 3:55
  Speaker 7: S P R I M G clim Lando.
• 3:58
  Speaker 4: Oh, my daughter, finally I need to find her.
• 4:03
  Speaker 8: Your daughter admitted that the baby is there.
• 4:06
  Speaker 7: Did you kind of took her.
• 4:07
  Speaker 4: Months to go to My daughter's been looking for I
• 4:09
  Speaker 4: called to my daughter with me some months. I just
• 4:11
  Speaker 4: found her to there that I can't find my granddaughter.
• 4:14
  Speaker 4: She just admitted to me she's some time to find
• 4:17
  Speaker 4: her herself.
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: You know what to Alexis Treschuk climb online dot Com
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: investigative reporter, Alexis, when a little Kelly first went missing,
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: you and I covered this story together. I immediately went
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: to Florida and began my own investigation and pretty quickly
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: determined that George and Cindy Anthony had nothing to do
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: with the disappearance of Kelly. I knew it in my
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: heart and my mind and my soul at the beginning.
• 4:50
  Speaker 3: Do you remember us discussing that off camera.
• 4:53
  Speaker 8: The first time we ever spoke about it, you told
• 4:57
  Speaker 8: me that you believed George and side Anti. You believe
• 5:00
  Speaker 8: that they had nothing to do with it. You thought
• 5:02
  Speaker 8: that they were completely innocent, and you one hundred percent
• 5:06
  Speaker 8: blamed Casey and only Casey. You said her parents had
• 5:09
  Speaker 8: nothing to do with it. And I was not sold
• 5:14
  Speaker 8: on that. I did not one hundred percent believe it.
• 5:15
  Speaker 8: But you never wavered in that.
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: You know, just then, when I was hearing Cindy Anthony
• 5:21
  Speaker 2: on that nine one one call, she sounds like she's hyperventilating,
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: and just in that moment, it got me so upset.
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: I could feel my hand shaken. I was just trying
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: to drink a cup of hot tea. And I remember
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: John w deal with me, high profile lawyer out of
• 5:35
  Speaker 2: this jurisdiction Florida, author of the method Proven Techniques for
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: Winning Jury trials. John, thank you for being with us.
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: I remember the first time my hand shook in front
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: of a jury, and for anyone that can see, this
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: is what happened. I had my questions as I always did,
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: in my hand for the witness, and had rolled them
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: up and I pointed at something and I looked at
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: the end of the paper and the paper was shaking.
• 6:01
  Speaker 3: I immediately put it down. I never did that again.
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: So even now, John Diale when you hear, Cindy, can't
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: you tell she's telling the truth. I don't need A
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: and E to do a line detect her test to
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: tell me she's telling the truth. But I have A
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: and E with me, so I'd like to reiterate it
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: was an awesome special So John deal, don't you get
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: a feeling or are you believe somebody or you don't
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: believe and you don't know why?
• 6:29
  Speaker 9: Yeah? Absolutely, I think you know with see me here
• 6:33
  Speaker 9: and there. Honestly, with George when we took his depot
• 6:38
  Speaker 9: that day, I spoke to him just briefly, and you
• 6:40
  Speaker 9: can tell he was wrecked by not I guilt, but
• 6:43
  Speaker 9: by grief. And it's just a feeling you get. So
• 6:45
  Speaker 9: I've always I've always had that feeling that he had
• 6:48
  Speaker 9: nothing to do with this at all.
• 6:49
  Speaker 10: Nancy. I remember the first time I met them in
• 6:52
  Speaker 10: the green room at CNN.
• 6:53
  Speaker 3: Hold on, you're hearing doctor Bethany Marshall.
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: She is a renowned psychoalyst joining us out of Beverly Hills.
• 7:01
  Speaker 3: Jump in, doctor Matthew, what were you saying?
• 7:03
  Speaker 10: I remember, I'm meeting George and Cynthy Anthony in the
• 7:06
  Speaker 10: green room at CNN, and it was a particularly difficult
• 7:09
  Speaker 10: period for them because they were really being skewered in
• 7:12
  Speaker 10: the press and on all the shows. They had come
• 7:15
  Speaker 10: to pier On's Larry Kean Show, and I was a
• 7:18
  Speaker 10: little afraid to walk into the green room where they
• 7:21
  Speaker 10: were because they were under assault, and I was worried
• 7:23
  Speaker 10: about what I had even said about them on various shows.
• 7:27
  Speaker 10: And they were lovely, gracious, kind, impact centered people, the
• 7:34
  Speaker 10: kind of people you want to have dinner with and
• 7:36
  Speaker 10: share time with, even while they were going through such
• 7:39
  Speaker 10: a difficult time, they asked me about myself, and I'll
• 7:41
  Speaker 10: never forget that.
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: You know what's interesting, I'm going to share a story.
• 7:46
  Speaker 3: It was not a story, It's true.
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: I spent a lot of time in Florida investigating this case,
• 7:52
  Speaker 2: and I spent a lot of time off camera interviewing
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: the bail bondsman that first dealt with Top Mom case Anthony,
• 8:01
  Speaker 2: and I remember she.
• 8:03
  Speaker 3: Was arrested on a minor charge.
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: To start with, like neglect of a child or something
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: along failure to report a child missing.
• 8:12
  Speaker 3: And she bonded out.
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: And there were a lot of restrictions on her bond,
• 8:17
  Speaker 2: and she had a bail bondsman with her.
• 8:20
  Speaker 3: She got home to the house.
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: This is why Kelly was quote still missing air quota
• 8:25
  Speaker 2: air quoting.
• 8:27
  Speaker 3: She walked in the house, and the Bill Bondsman told me.
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: Two of them, a female Bellson Bill bondsman and a
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: male Bell Bondsman.
• 8:34
  Speaker 3: That heard this. The first thing she said she walked in.
• 8:37
  Speaker 2: She didn't say, Hey, have you set up a headquarters
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: to find Kelly? What do you know about Kelly? What's
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: being done to find Kelly? This is what I think happened.
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: The first thing she said was, Hey, what's for supper?
• 8:50
  Speaker 3: Mom? Are you kidding me? No?
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: Two witnesses told me that, And this is what I
• 8:56
  Speaker 2: was leading up to. Later on, when George we try
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: to ask questions about Kelly, Cindy would goes, don't push her,
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: don't push her, she's upset. Finally, George Anthony rushed tot
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: loam Casey Anthony in the home, grabbed her by the throat,
• 9:12
  Speaker 2: pushed her up against the wall, and would.
• 9:14
  Speaker 3: Say, where is Kelly? Where is Kelly? Where is Kelly?
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: That is not the behavior of a man who had
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: anything to do with the death of Kelly. But wait, wait, wait,
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: you judge, were about to go into the lie detector
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: test performed by George Olivo, who is with us, And
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: we're gonna hear from Tony Harris, the award winning journalist.
• 9:36
  Speaker 11: Can we have a real conversation about this? Can we
• 9:39
  Speaker 11: have a real conversation about this? I love and I
• 9:42
  Speaker 11: have loved your reporting on this and the way that
• 9:46
  Speaker 11: you have sort of staked put that steak in the
• 9:48
  Speaker 11: ground on behalf of George and Cindy. But let's be
• 9:52
  Speaker 11: honest about it. You know, there were a number of
• 9:55
  Speaker 11: people in this country that's to this day and this
• 9:58
  Speaker 11: the results of this telegraph exam won't change anamimes. I
• 10:02
  Speaker 11: almost guarantee you one hundred percent on that. But the
• 10:06
  Speaker 11: reality is that there were reasons, there were reasons suggested
• 10:11
  Speaker 11: why you should not have faith in George, and that
• 10:15
  Speaker 11: was planted by who that was. And you guys have
• 10:18
  Speaker 11: got the attorneys on this battle. They've got to talk
• 10:20
  Speaker 11: to me about this. It was planted by Jose Bias.
• 10:23
  Speaker 11: The doubt that was raised about George Anthony was planted
• 10:26
  Speaker 11: by Jose Bias. But there were reasons to have questions
• 10:31
  Speaker 11: about Cindy. Two. Cindy Anthony love her, spend four days
• 10:36
  Speaker 11: with her. It was in some ways traumatizing for me.
• 10:39
  Speaker 11: But Cindy Anthony is pure, one hundred percent pitbull, and
• 10:47
  Speaker 11: she dug in to find the information. You know of
• 10:50
  Speaker 11: this Nancy. She dug in to find this information with
• 10:53
  Speaker 11: one hand extended to everyone on the outside world that
• 10:57
  Speaker 11: was trying to breach that wall that she had put up.
• 11:01
  Speaker 11: She was going to do her own investigation. She was
• 11:03
  Speaker 11: going to find out what happened to her granddaughter come
• 11:06
  Speaker 11: Hella high Water. She extended the other arments that stay away,
• 11:10
  Speaker 11: and that's why she was challenging the press and the
• 11:12
  Speaker 11: people who were on her lawn. She wanted to find
• 11:15
  Speaker 11: this out for herself. And she is an absolute pitbull,
• 11:18
  Speaker 11: and you can see it in our interview. I spent
• 11:22
  Speaker 11: four days with her. I think her determination, her single mindedness,
• 11:27
  Speaker 11: her focus on this is why we are where we are.
• 11:30
  Speaker 11: And if Casey had not made these allegations against George,
• 11:33
  Speaker 11: the one thing she knew that would trigger her mother,
• 11:38
  Speaker 11: we would not have been in her home for four
• 11:41
  Speaker 11: days recording a special.
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: There you go, you are hearing Tony Harris, Award winning
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: journalist and the host of the A and E special
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: Casey Anthony's parents, The Light Detect her test and oh,
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: by the way, if you missed it the other night,
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: it's streaming on the A and E app right now.
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: It's also an AETV dot com.
• 12:01
  Speaker 11: Now.
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: First of all, Tony Harris and you can cut his
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: mic right now, said let's have a real discussion.
• 12:08
  Speaker 3: I resent that because every.
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: Discussion I have is real, and there is not a
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: single person on this panel that I would ever accuse
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: of subterfuge. They're all straight shooters. Everybody. Well, there is
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: Joe Scott Morgan, but we'll hear from him in just
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: a moment. Long story short, this is a real discussion.
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: But you're absolutely right, regardless of my initial thoughts, which
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: I still maintain are correct regarding George and Cindy, a
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: lot of people actually think George Anthony molested top Lim
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: Casey Anthony and that he's the one that disposed of
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: Kelly's body. You're right, there are a lot of people
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: that really believe that, and you cannot tell me somebody
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: on the jury doesn't believe it. After Bias threw it
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: out there that George Anthony had molested tot Mom, I
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: don't belie leave that, but why else would they have
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: acquitted top Mom Casey Anthony, which is like a.
• 13:06
  Speaker 3: Bone in my throat when I have to say that.
• 13:08
  Speaker 3: But that said, let's hear them.
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: Take a listen to more of Cindy in that nine
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: one one called do you believe her?
• 13:16
  Speaker 3: Because I do.
• 13:17
  Speaker 4: There's something wrong. I saw my daughter's cart today and
• 13:20
  Speaker 4: it's not my first.
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: Been a dead battle thrown clo.
• 13:22
  Speaker 5: Okay, what is the three year old's name?
• 13:24
  Speaker 4: Kaylee? The A Y L E E.
• 13:27
  Speaker 5: Anthony Haley Anthony, Yeah, okay, she white, black, her Hispanics.
• 13:32
  Speaker 5: It's like, how long has she been missing for?
• 13:37
  Speaker 4: I have not seen her since the seventh of June?
• 13:42
  Speaker 3: What is her date of birth?
• 13:47
  Speaker 4: Eight nine, two thousand? Oh god, you free two thousand
• 13:52
  Speaker 4: and five? True, listen.
• 14:05
  Speaker 6: A month ago?
• 14:10
  Speaker 5: Okay, I mean I understand. Can you just can you
• 14:13
  Speaker 5: calm down for me for the submit it? And I
• 14:14
  Speaker 5: don't even know what's going on. Okay, I'm gonna chime ou.
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: Jo Scott Morgan I love ribbing him when his microphone
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: is cut, of course, is an incredible professor of forensics
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: Jacksonville State University, author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon.
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: He's host a hit podcast, Bodybacks of Joe Scott Morgan,
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: and he's not only a colleague, but he and his
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: wife Kim are friends of mine. Joe Scott, you know,
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: I'm about to go to the polygraph expert, Georgia Levo.
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: But Joe Scott, you and I've been on so many
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: crime scenes, We've interviewed so many witnesses, so many defendants.
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: Do you get a gut sense at the get go
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: when you believe or disbelieve somebody?
• 15:07
  Speaker 3: And I think it's born of millions of years of evolution.
• 15:13
  Speaker 3: There's so much I can't explain. Do you ever do that,
• 15:16
  Speaker 3: Joe Scott? After all the people.
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: You've interviewed, you get an immediate sense of who's telling
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: the truth?
• 15:23
  Speaker 12: Oh, most definitely. And still to this day. You know,
• 15:27
  Speaker 12: even though I'm no longer in the field working as
• 15:28
  Speaker 12: an investigator, you know people I come in contact with
• 15:32
  Speaker 12: day to day. Still it is something that's quite primal,
• 15:36
  Speaker 12: isn't it. We do get those feelings within our gut.
• 15:39
  Speaker 12: And you know, look, I'm a science guy, you know that, Nancy,
• 15:42
  Speaker 12: So I'm not real big on gut feelings. However, there
• 15:46
  Speaker 12: is a sentence when you inhabit a space with an
• 15:49
  Speaker 12: individual and you're chatting with them that you can pick
• 15:51
  Speaker 12: up on these little nuances in their conversation, body movements,
• 15:55
  Speaker 12: those sorts of things, and the consistency or back thereof
• 16:01
  Speaker 12: of a narrative that they're trying to put forward. And
• 16:05
  Speaker 12: so in this case, I think you see this over
• 16:08
  Speaker 12: and over that that image that you painted just a
• 16:11
  Speaker 12: moment ago, about this grandpa wrapping his hand around her
• 16:19
  Speaker 12: throat and pushing her to the wall. I'm a grandpa too.
• 16:24
  Speaker 12: I'd want to know where those grand babies are, you know,
• 16:26
  Speaker 12: And I don't know, you know, whether you're prone to violence,
• 16:30
  Speaker 12: you don't support violence, or whatever the case might be.
• 16:32
  Speaker 12: When you're talking about child and you're trying to enlist
• 16:34
  Speaker 12: that information as a fellow family member, I don't know.
• 16:38
  Speaker 12: Sometimes actions do speak truth.
• 16:40
  Speaker 3: All that said, I think your answer was yes, did
• 16:42
  Speaker 3: you okay?
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah? Jackie agrees that all that meant yes, he does
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: a couple of minds. Now, if you wish, yes, I'm
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: going to cut through.
• 16:50
  Speaker 3: But we heard Cindy Anthony.
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: I also don't know if I like Tony Harris's depiction
• 16:57
  Speaker 2: of her as a rot what do you say a
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: pit bull?
• 17:00
  Speaker 3: I don't know that I would.
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: Compare her to any type of a dog because I
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: found her to be lovely and loving and articulate. And
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: I think the country met her and George in the
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: worst moments of their lives. Remember when they would come
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: out and scream at the reporters to get the hand
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: off their lawn.
• 17:16
  Speaker 3: Well, I think I would too. Their baby was missing.
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: They had to suspect that top Mom killed her or
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: got rid of her.
• 17:24
  Speaker 3: It was the worst time of their life.
• 17:26
  Speaker 11: Yeah, I'm totally willing to defend that description. I just look,
• 17:33
  Speaker 11: she knew me from my History Channel show, and so
• 17:37
  Speaker 11: we hit it off immediately. But there is something there
• 17:40
  Speaker 11: is a switch in sending that flips when you dig
• 17:47
  Speaker 11: into the details of this story.
• 17:49
  Speaker 3: I guess so. But the worst thing that ever happened
• 17:51
  Speaker 3: to her and you want to talk about.
• 17:53
  Speaker 11: It, absolutely So, guys, we're going to.
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: Actually play Georgia Olivo polygraphing them.
• 18:01
  Speaker 3: George is with us right now. Tony Harris created the Casey.
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: Anthony Parents the Like to Take Your Test program, which
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: was amazing, by the way. Now, but I want you
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: to hear the stark contrast the dichotomy between that day
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: when Cindy Anthony calls nine one one Now she drags
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: top Mom, Casey Anthony. You know what, I wouldn't be
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: on the phone calling nine one one. I would be
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: at the police station three eaches up their tailpipe to
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: find my baby. But I want you to hear in
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: our cup one nine Jackie, I want you to hear
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: top mom, Casey Anthony, listen.
• 18:41
  Speaker 4: Okay, a vehicle stor on too? No, this was my vehicle.
• 18:45
  Speaker 4: What vehicle is stors? You know I need Ponyac sunfire.
• 18:49
  Speaker 9: Okay.
• 18:50
  Speaker 5: I have deputies on the way to you right now
• 18:51
  Speaker 5: for that. But now you're now you're three three oldaughter
• 18:55
  Speaker 5: is missing Kaylee Anthony? Yes, yes, yes, female three years
• 19:01
  Speaker 5: old eight nine two five a day to birth.
• 19:03
  Speaker 4: Yes, and you last saw her a month ago, thirty.
• 19:07
  Speaker 6: One days from thirty one days?
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: Who have her?
• 19:12
  Speaker 13: Do you do a name?
• 19:14
  Speaker 6: Her name is Vaneva Fernandez Gondalas.
• 19:17
  Speaker 9: Who is that baby sitter?
• 19:19
  Speaker 4: Because she's been my nanny for about a year and
• 19:22
  Speaker 4: a half, almost two years.
• 19:23
  Speaker 5: Why why are you calling now?
• 19:25
  Speaker 8: Why didn't you call it thirty one days ago?
• 19:27
  Speaker 4: I've been looking for her and have gone through other
• 19:30
  Speaker 4: resources to try to find her, which was stupid.
• 19:34
  Speaker 5: Okay, can you can you give me the name of
• 19:36
  Speaker 5: the then nanny again like.
• 19:37
  Speaker 14: Sell it out for me?
• 19:38
  Speaker 6: Naiva v n Ai da last day Fernandez Fernandez hyphen
• 19:48
  Speaker 6: good balas the think officers are here.
• 19:53
  Speaker 4: The opposite of their Yes.
• 19:56
  Speaker 9: Okay, on on a second and half.
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: Of yet, I mean, okay, time stories with Nancy Grace.
• 20:16
  Speaker 13: Okay.
• 20:17
  Speaker 4: So it's been a vehicle sting too, No, this was
• 20:19
  Speaker 4: my vehicle.
• 20:20
  Speaker 6: What vehicle was stolen?
• 20:22
  Speaker 4: It's a ninety Pontiac Sunfire.
• 20:25
  Speaker 8: Okay.
• 20:25
  Speaker 5: I have deputies on the way to you right now
• 20:27
  Speaker 5: for that. But now you're now you're three year olds.
• 20:30
  Speaker 3: Three oldaughter is.
• 20:31
  Speaker 5: Missing Kaylee Anthony Yeah.
• 20:33
  Speaker 4: White female, yes, yes, white female, three years.
• 20:36
  Speaker 5: Old eight nine two five a day of birth yes,
• 20:39
  Speaker 5: And you last saw her a month ago.
• 20:42
  Speaker 6: Thirty one days from thirty one days?
• 20:46
  Speaker 5: Who have her? Don't you a name?
• 20:49
  Speaker 6: Her name is Java Fernando Mzalis.
• 20:53
  Speaker 5: Who is that baby sitter?
• 20:55
  Speaker 6: She's been my.
• 20:55
  Speaker 4: Nanny for about a year and a half, almost two years.
• 20:59
  Speaker 5: Why why are you calling now?
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: Why didn't you call it any one days ago?
• 21:02
  Speaker 4: I've been looking for her and have gone through other
• 21:05
  Speaker 4: resources to try to find her, which was stupid.
• 21:09
  Speaker 15: Okay, can you can you give me.
• 21:11
  Speaker 5: The name of the nanny again like goell it out
• 21:13
  Speaker 5: for me Va to.
• 21:15
  Speaker 6: Be eton ai b a last fame Fernandez Fernandez hyphen Gonzalez.
• 21:26
  Speaker 4: I think officers are your.
• 21:28
  Speaker 6: The officer of there? Yes, coming on on a second
• 21:32
  Speaker 6: and half of the end.
• 21:37
  Speaker 3: I mean, okay, now correct me if I'm wrong.
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: John Deale personal injury lawyer joining us out of this jurisdiction.
• 21:44
  Speaker 3: All that was a lie. And did you hear how
• 21:46
  Speaker 3: calm top mom is.
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: She's so calm, she's more worried about her Pontiac sun
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: Bird or Firebird or whatever her car is, ninety eight
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: Pontiac Sunfire Then she she seeing more concerned about that
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: than about her daughter. Everything she just said about Zennia
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: Fernandez Gonzales is a lie.
• 22:06
  Speaker 3: There was no such person in her life. She had
• 22:09
  Speaker 3: never had a babysitter. Ever.
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: That was a lie that she had kept up in
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: front of her parents for two years. So what was
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: her explanation at trial as to why she made up
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: the lie?
• 22:20
  Speaker 9: Well, she never never explained that. I mean, obviously she
• 22:25
  Speaker 9: just basically abandoned that, you know, in the depositions she
• 22:28
  Speaker 9: never explained what it was. But unfortunately, the thing about
• 22:31
  Speaker 9: Casey she would lie with such detail thrown in like
• 22:35
  Speaker 9: that example is a Nida Fernandez Gonzales, whose name she
• 22:39
  Speaker 9: apparently got from a ledger in an apartment complex where
• 22:42
  Speaker 9: she was visiting, and that detail would that detail would
• 22:46
  Speaker 9: throw the investigators down another rabbit hole. And it's quite
• 22:50
  Speaker 9: possible and probable that she'd been telling those same detailed
• 22:53
  Speaker 9: lies to her mom for years, and her mom, being
• 22:55
  Speaker 9: a mom, wanted to believe her, so it was that
• 22:58
  Speaker 9: was part of the reason why it's obviously, hey, clearly
• 23:02
  Speaker 9: she's the one to to Kyley, but at the time,
• 23:05
  Speaker 9: obviously the investigators and her parents who were trying to
• 23:08
  Speaker 9: give her the benefit of the doubt to find out
• 23:10
  Speaker 9: which really happened.
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: And I remember when they would visit her at the jail,
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: she would curse them out, scream at them whenever they
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: would ask about where is Kelly.
• 23:17
  Speaker 3: You know, let's get right to it.
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: George Olivo is a former FBI special agent who gave
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: the polygraph test for this A and E special casey
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: Anthony's parents the lie detect their test, and again it
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: was incredible, and I'm going to watch it again because
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: I'm like to pick up on nuances of how people behave.
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: And I want to support my initial theory that George
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: and Cindy Anthony were telling the truth, that they were
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: not involved in any way, although I do believe Cindy
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: lied on the stand for her daughter. Taught mom Casey
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: Anthony when she said she did the computer searches for
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: chloroform and she meant to put chlora phil Sandy is
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: way too smart to misspell chloroform. She was willing to
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: take the fall for her daughter. That's the kind of
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: mother she is. There's no doubt in my mind she
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: was telling the truth about Kelly. And I want you
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: to hear now George Olivo, who is with us now
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: senior polygraph examiner and he is polygraphing George Anthony, listen
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: to our cup one seventeen.
• 24:26
  Speaker 15: Did you know Lee conceal Keally's whereabouts?
• 24:30
  Speaker 5: No?
• 24:31
  Speaker 13: I mean I didn't know where she was at, right.
• 24:34
  Speaker 15: That's all I'm asking. So the question again, did you
• 24:37
  Speaker 15: knowing Lee conceal Keally's wearboines?
• 24:42
  Speaker 9: No?
• 24:42
  Speaker 13: Okay, So you're struggling with that one a little bit.
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: Tell me why me?
• 24:46
  Speaker 13: It's because I was close to her house?
• 24:49
  Speaker 15: Yeah, as she was found, right, But think about the
• 24:53
  Speaker 15: times you went out looking for her?
• 24:55
  Speaker 3: Did you know where she was that whole time?
• 24:57
  Speaker 15: No?
• 24:58
  Speaker 9: You sure did?
• 24:59
  Speaker 13: I did you know where she was at?
• 25:00
  Speaker 15: Okay, that's all I'm asking I don't know, That's all
• 25:03
  Speaker 15: I'm asking you. Okay, George, kind of pull it together.
• 25:06
  Speaker 13: I just was visualizing made the woods at the morow.
• 25:09
  Speaker 13: I'm sorry? What the woods where she was found? I'm sorry,
• 25:12
  Speaker 13: I'm sorry.
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: Alexis Tschuk is joining me Crime online dot Com investigative reporter.
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: You and I've seen those woods over and over and over.
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: It's kind of a cross between swampy water and.
• 25:24
  Speaker 3: It looks like wood.
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: It looks like woods, but when you walk down into it,
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: it's just swamp. It's like marshy and people have thrown
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: out old tires and trash and that swhear tot mom
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: threw her daughter. Could you describe the area, Alexis to restchuck.
• 25:42
  Speaker 8: Yes, But I also want to say with George that
• 25:45
  Speaker 8: he didn't know where she was. Casey's car stunk like death.
• 25:49
  Speaker 8: Do you remember? That's exactly what Sidney said. It's sorry,
• 25:52
  Speaker 8: Cindy said. It's not like someone died in here. Little
• 25:55
  Speaker 8: Kayley was not tossed like killed in the house and
• 25:58
  Speaker 8: tossed in the woods all in one second. Casey was
• 26:01
  Speaker 8: driving around with her dead daughter's body in the car
• 26:05
  Speaker 8: for so long that the rot of the body permeated
• 26:08
  Speaker 8: the entire trunk of the car, so she was not
• 26:11
  Speaker 8: there right away. This is a like a Florida swamp.
• 26:15
  Speaker 8: It's really the best way to do it. It's kind of,
• 26:17
  Speaker 8: you know, it has trees. It's not like a forest
• 26:19
  Speaker 8: like you would imagine up in the mountain, but it
• 26:22
  Speaker 8: has You would think you could walk through it. But
• 26:23
  Speaker 8: it's kind of a marshy bottom with the water kind
• 26:26
  Speaker 8: of hidden under leaves, and anything could be back there
• 26:30
  Speaker 8: and be trashed Florida. There could be alligators. It's just
• 26:34
  Speaker 8: sort of an abandoned area, but near their house, right
• 26:37
  Speaker 8: near their house.
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: Scott Morgan joining us a host of body bags of
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: Joseph Scott Morgan, jo Scott. How long would Kenly's body
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: have been in that car before the decomposition of the
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: little girl's body began to smell so horribly?
• 26:52
  Speaker 12: Just a couple of days, It doesn't take too much. Remember,
• 26:55
  Speaker 12: the body was according to what you know doctor g
• 26:58
  Speaker 12: had said and from what we saw at the same
• 27:00
  Speaker 12: scene or what was revealed that they found at the scene.
• 27:04
  Speaker 12: She was kind of cocooned in a blanket as well
• 27:08
  Speaker 12: as a plastic bag. And not to mention, let's just
• 27:10
  Speaker 12: talk about the car, which I know is the target here.
• 27:13
  Speaker 12: Riding around in the Florida heat. Heat speeds up the
• 27:18
  Speaker 12: process of decomposition. Within within two days, you would be
• 27:22
  Speaker 12: able to smell a foul odor, particularly in that environment,
• 27:26
  Speaker 12: so it prompts it, It accelerates the process very quickly.
• 27:31
  Speaker 12: So just in that short period of time, and the
• 27:34
  Speaker 12: fact that she could have been that numb to it,
• 27:38
  Speaker 12: that she would just have ridden around with this child's
• 27:41
  Speaker 12: body in the back of this car is kind of
• 27:45
  Speaker 12: striking to me.
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: George Olivo joining me, former FBI special agent who administered
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: the polygraph test for the A and E special casey
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: Anthony's parents, the lie detect her test.
• 27:57
  Speaker 3: Georgia Olivo, it's a real honor to speak with you.
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: Thank you, an FBI special agent who is a senior polygrapher.
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: Tell me how the whole thing went down, because I
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: know George nearly broke down in the middle of the polygraph. Yeah,
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: he was.
• 28:14
  Speaker 14: He was very nervous, and that was to be expected
• 28:17
  Speaker 14: just about everybody who comes in for a polygraph examine.
• 28:19
  Speaker 14: It's pretty nervous initially. Most people struggle with that. Initially,
• 28:24
  Speaker 14: they get in their own way and they overthink things.
• 28:26
  Speaker 14: And much has been made about George struggling with the
• 28:31
  Speaker 14: idea of Kayley's whereabouts. We had to clarify that.
• 28:35
  Speaker 11: We had to work on that with him.
• 28:37
  Speaker 14: He was trying to reconcile what he knew then versus
• 28:40
  Speaker 14: what he knows now, A classic example of getting in
• 28:44
  Speaker 14: your own way, something that most people do. George is
• 28:48
  Speaker 14: no different than anybody else. But eventually he did pull
• 28:52
  Speaker 14: it together. He was able to focus and answer a
• 28:55
  Speaker 14: yes or note to all the questions.
• 28:56
  Speaker 3: Here is more of.
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: Expert Police for George Alivo polygraphing top Mom Casey Anthony's father.
• 29:06
  Speaker 3: George, listen, okay.
• 29:07
  Speaker 15: You're going to have to compartmentalized right now as you
• 29:10
  Speaker 15: sit here right now.
• 29:11
  Speaker 13: Did you conceal her whereabouts that I can seal her whereabouts?
• 29:20
  Speaker 13: I did not know where she was at. Okay, So
• 29:22
  Speaker 13: why are you struggling with that?
• 29:34
  Speaker 3: What do you make of that? Georgia leive? Why was
• 29:37
  Speaker 3: he struggling?
• 29:38
  Speaker 14: Well, again, I think he was trying to reconcile what
• 29:40
  Speaker 14: he knew then versus what he knows now. It's a
• 29:44
  Speaker 14: classic example again of getting in your own way, and
• 29:47
  Speaker 14: most people do struggle initially to get out of their
• 29:51
  Speaker 14: own way. We tend to overthink things, and George was
• 29:54
  Speaker 14: no different. But eventually he did pull it together and
• 29:58
  Speaker 14: he was able to focus and say yes or no
• 30:01
  Speaker 14: to the question.
• 30:02
  Speaker 2: Tony Harris is joining us the host of this A
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: and A special Tony, do you think he was struggling
• 30:08
  Speaker 2: because he's being forced to remember his granddaughter was murdered,
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: rotted in the back of his daughter's car and a
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: trash bag and then was thrown out a swamp.
• 30:17
  Speaker 3: Do you think that may have gotten him upset? I'm
• 30:20
  Speaker 3: upset just saying it.
• 30:21
  Speaker 11: Yeah, I mean, look, look, we've discussed it. I mean,
• 30:24
  Speaker 11: this is and you just said it just a couple
• 30:26
  Speaker 11: of moments ago. This was them reliving the worst moments
• 30:29
  Speaker 11: of their lives together as a family, as individuals.
• 30:33
  Speaker 9: As a couple.
• 30:34
  Speaker 11: Right, And so now George, who was I just think magnificent.
• 30:38
  Speaker 11: I can't I can't speak highly enough of the job
• 30:41
  Speaker 11: he did. And now George is pinning down on the
• 30:47
  Speaker 11: critical questions. Right, I'm asking them in and m I interview.
• 30:51
  Speaker 11: You know, you can lie to a journalist. We know
• 30:52
  Speaker 11: that that's almost a sport these days. But to sit
• 30:55
  Speaker 11: down with George with all of his experience and be
• 30:59
  Speaker 11: asked to end serve the most pointed questions you know
• 31:03
  Speaker 11: about this case is obviously dredging up all kinds of
• 31:07
  Speaker 11: memories for him, and they're all painful that he was
• 31:11
  Speaker 11: able to pull it together at all, with wires all
• 31:14
  Speaker 11: over him and picking up all of his physiology. You know,
• 31:19
  Speaker 11: first of all, I just think George did an amazing job.
• 31:22
  Speaker 11: And for George Anthony to come through that and to
• 31:27
  Speaker 11: produce the result that he produced, and for Georgia Levo
• 31:30
  Speaker 11: to then say, Okay, let me double check this, let
• 31:33
  Speaker 11: me triple check this because it's that important. I just
• 31:38
  Speaker 11: think it was just a remarkable examination and a remarkable exercise.
• 31:43
  Speaker 11: And credit to George Anthony for being willing to do
• 31:46
  Speaker 11: the thing that we know Casey wouldn't do it.
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: Prime Stories with Nancy Grace to doctor Bethany.
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: Marshall joining a psychoanalyst in Beverly Hills. Doctor Bethany, You've
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: seen so many cases, but it just strikes me how
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: taught mom even now, is willing to let her father,
• 32:24
  Speaker 2: who father and mother who loved her so so much,
• 32:28
  Speaker 2: and I think still do suffer this way and actually
• 32:32
  Speaker 2: blame them somehow.
• 32:35
  Speaker 3: You know she watched this, of course she did.
• 32:37
  Speaker 10: And Nancy, you know she has the same disregard for
• 32:40
  Speaker 10: her father, who she accused him, electing her her brother
• 32:44
  Speaker 10: whom she accused him, lesting her her mother, who she
• 32:47
  Speaker 10: threw under the bus, the same disregard for them as
• 32:50
  Speaker 10: she had for her own daughter. And the eight idea
• 32:53
  Speaker 10: that George hesitated when asked where little Kaylee was, if
• 32:57
  Speaker 10: he knew where she was, I understand on that completely
• 33:01
  Speaker 10: from a psychological perspective, he felt responsible for what happened
• 33:06
  Speaker 10: to Kaylee. When you have a daughter who's that disturbed,
• 33:09
  Speaker 10: who kills your granddaughter? I know she was acquitted, but
• 33:12
  Speaker 10: in his mind, his daughter killed his granddaughter, secreted her
• 33:17
  Speaker 10: in a swamp behind the house, and he's raised this
• 33:21
  Speaker 10: daughter and seen every bizarre, disturbed behavior that he cannot control,
• 33:26
  Speaker 10: he cannot remediate, he cannot change. And he's asked if
• 33:30
  Speaker 10: he knew where his granddaughter was. Of course he's going
• 33:33
  Speaker 10: to feel responsible. This is his daughter who did that
• 33:36
  Speaker 10: to the granddaughter. So I think in his mind it
• 33:39
  Speaker 10: wasn't so much like where she was, but that he
• 33:43
  Speaker 10: should have known where she was and he should have
• 33:46
  Speaker 10: stopped this.
• 33:46
  Speaker 2: Let's take a listen to more of George Olio examining
• 33:52
  Speaker 2: top mom Casey Anthony's father George Anthony.
• 33:55
  Speaker 3: Listen, So Casey.
• 33:56
  Speaker 15: Has claimed that when she was young, you came in
• 34:00
  Speaker 15: the room.
• 34:00
  Speaker 13: And molested it. So there's two parts to this test.
• 34:05
  Speaker 3: They're like two sides of a point.
• 34:07
  Speaker 15: Both sides are equally important.
• 34:09
  Speaker 3: So the first side answers the question did you do it?
• 34:12
  Speaker 15: The other part answers the question do you pick the
• 34:14
  Speaker 15: profile of a person that would do that well? The
• 34:17
  Speaker 15: pretest interview is where we discuss all the issues, tell
• 34:19
  Speaker 15: them everything they need to know. I want to try
• 34:21
  Speaker 15: and keep that foot movement to a minimum. To move
• 34:23
  Speaker 15: your feet when you answer. Don't try to convince me
• 34:25
  Speaker 15: with your answer. That's not necessary, just a soft spoken
• 34:28
  Speaker 15: yes or no. You have to make that decision during
• 34:30
  Speaker 15: the pretest. Is this person suitable for testing? Are they
• 34:34
  Speaker 15: lose it? Are they able to sit through this test?
• 34:36
  Speaker 15: And it's focus and pay attention, and you call yourself
• 34:39
  Speaker 15: a ten on on a personal honesty scale.
• 34:41
  Speaker 3: You didn't lie about that, right, You didn't lie about that?
• 34:45
  Speaker 2: Right?
• 34:46
  Speaker 15: Yes?
• 34:47
  Speaker 13: I mean I didn't lie about it. I'm sorry, all right.
• 34:49
  Speaker 11: You gotta be worried there for a.
• 34:50
  Speaker 3: Minute, you know, when you have to ask it.
• 34:52
  Speaker 2: I can't even imagine doing this to my father. Making
• 34:57
  Speaker 2: these horrible claims about him is a to save my own.
• 35:01
  Speaker 3: Skin, very very disturbing. George Olivo.
• 35:05
  Speaker 2: You say that George and Cindy Anthony passed their lie
• 35:10
  Speaker 2: detector tests, isn't it true? You do three different independent evaluations, Yes, I.
• 35:16
  Speaker 14: Did for this exam. Usually it's two. You get a
• 35:19
  Speaker 14: secondary what we call a quality assurance sim to review
• 35:24
  Speaker 14: your work independently without meeting the people, without being there
• 35:28
  Speaker 14: in the room. They just look at the data and
• 35:30
  Speaker 14: they either concur or you know, there's a discussion. But
• 35:33
  Speaker 14: I did three, three different independent validations for this test.
• 35:37
  Speaker 3: And the three independent evaluations.
• 35:39
  Speaker 14: Were what well, of course my own I did my
• 35:42
  Speaker 14: own evaluation where we put numbers on the on the
• 35:46
  Speaker 14: diagnostic features. We're not throwing horseshoes here, we're actually using
• 35:50
  Speaker 14: objective scoring scales. So I did my own evaluation. I
• 35:54
  Speaker 14: determined that they that they did pass their exams, there's
• 35:57
  Speaker 14: no deception indicated. And then the computer itself, the polygraph
• 36:01
  Speaker 14: program has an algorithm that evaluates charts and it comes
• 36:05
  Speaker 14: up with its own decision. Just complete, completely automated software.
• 36:10
  Speaker 14: It said that they passed the exam, and then another
• 36:13
  Speaker 14: individual that looked at everything, and he also concurred.
• 36:16
  Speaker 3: Guys, you decide for yourself. Listen to George.
• 36:19
  Speaker 15: You're in a legitimate exam. There are no surprises, and
• 36:22
  Speaker 15: we actually go over every single question so they know
• 36:25
  Speaker 15: exactly what they're going.
• 36:26
  Speaker 13: To be asked.
• 36:26
  Speaker 15: Because if they're not comfortable or they don't really understand
• 36:29
  Speaker 15: what I'm getting at, then we're not going to have
• 36:31
  Speaker 15: accurate results. You've been married to Sindy now for how long?
• 36:36
  Speaker 15: Three two year or some gratulations, and you've had never
• 36:38
  Speaker 15: keeo on time and say you haven't even an emotional affair?
• 36:42
  Speaker 13: Right, I haven't?
• 36:45
  Speaker 11: Okay, all right?
• 36:46
  Speaker 15: Have you always been a ten on the sexual integrity scalp?
• 36:49
  Speaker 5: No?
• 36:50
  Speaker 13: Yes, yes, yes, no, yes, when you're separated, that's a.
• 36:56
  Speaker 3: I don't know. So what does that mean?
• 36:59
  Speaker 2: Tony Harris? Did he have an affair with somebody when
• 37:01
  Speaker 2: they were separated? Is that what they're getting at?
• 37:03
  Speaker 11: Yeah, you know the states inside and out, and there
• 37:05
  Speaker 11: was a there were a couple of points in their
• 37:07
  Speaker 11: relationship was pretty rocky, and they weren't living together, and
• 37:10
  Speaker 11: there were issues in the marriage with financial issues and
• 37:14
  Speaker 11: relationship issues and faithfulness issues. And then we get to
• 37:18
  Speaker 11: the trial and there's this whole thing about George having
• 37:21
  Speaker 11: an affair and and and and that whole discussion. So yeah,
• 37:25
  Speaker 11: So when Cindy hears that question and she's answered it
• 37:29
  Speaker 11: for George, uh, it's a it's a pretty it's a
• 37:32
  Speaker 11: pretty stunning television moment.
• 37:34
  Speaker 3: So wait a minute. So they're in there together and she.
• 37:36
  Speaker 11: Jumps in, well, we're watching it in another room. Yeah,
• 37:39
  Speaker 11: Cindy and I are watching George's examine another room and
• 37:43
  Speaker 11: she can hear everything. So when Georgia Levo asked this question, uh,
• 37:48
  Speaker 11: Cindy has a view of the hands. He let's say yeah,
• 37:51
  Speaker 11: and so she offers it up.
• 37:52
  Speaker 2: And as it turns out, that was exactly what happened,
• 37:55
  Speaker 2: and George was telling the truth because they were separated
• 37:59
  Speaker 2: at that time. To minding, we've been talking a lot
• 38:01
  Speaker 2: about George Anthony, but what about Cindy Anthony. Take a
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: listen to renowned a polygrapher. George Olivo questioning Cindy Anthony, do.
• 38:11
  Speaker 13: You believe your daughter knows what happened?
• 38:14
  Speaker 7: Yes, I believe one hundred percent, and I kept hoping
• 38:18
  Speaker 7: upon hope that she would confess. And that's the only
• 38:21
  Speaker 7: reason I've been put myself through all of her drama and.
• 38:24
  Speaker 13: Everything absolutely correct.
• 38:28
  Speaker 7: Since June sixteenth, two thousand and eight, Kaylee has been
• 38:32
  Speaker 7: my number one priority as far as what happened to
• 38:36
  Speaker 7: her in getting her back. I lost Casey and my
• 38:41
  Speaker 7: granddaughter that day, but Kaylee was always the priority. Kaylee's
• 38:45
  Speaker 7: always been the priority. That's been my focusing goal the
• 38:49
  Speaker 7: whole time is to find out the truth and to
• 38:52
  Speaker 7: sit here and listen to her, keep making different stories
• 38:55
  Speaker 7: as it fits.
• 39:01
  Speaker 10: I haven't.
• 39:03
  Speaker 13: Attack.
• 39:04
  Speaker 7: I'm sorry. I take my handside, girls, I'm sorry.
• 39:20
  Speaker 13: Breath please, I'll take them with you. We're going to
• 39:26
  Speaker 13: get through this.
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: I'm starting to lose it.
• 39:28
  Speaker 3: I'm starting to faint. I'm starting to pass out.
• 39:30
  Speaker 13: I don't know what I want to it down the
• 39:32
  Speaker 13: floor to say, what's going to do with you? Okay,
• 39:39
  Speaker 13: you want to go to the hospital.
• 39:41
  Speaker 3: Need to breathe.
• 39:47
  Speaker 2: M just got Morgan joining us death investigator, what is
• 39:52
  Speaker 2: a panic attack?
• 39:54
  Speaker 12: The individual starts to uptake uh less oxygen. Okay, so
• 39:58
  Speaker 12: there's shallow breathing at that point in tom And for
• 40:02
  Speaker 12: an individual that experiences this, one of the one of
• 40:06
  Speaker 12: the kind of consequences of this is that they think
• 40:10
  Speaker 12: many times that they're actually having a heart attack, to
• 40:13
  Speaker 12: have palpitations in their heart, rapid heartbeat, rabbit pulse, and
• 40:18
  Speaker 12: they'll become lightheaded. And again that goes back to the
• 40:20
  Speaker 12: lack of oxygenation. It's hard to remain focused, particularly in
• 40:25
  Speaker 12: an instance like this, because you can imagine this is
• 40:28
  Speaker 12: rather high pressure, and then you coupled all of that
• 40:31
  Speaker 12: with all of the family nuances that are involved in this,
• 40:34
  Speaker 12: and it can be troubled.
• 40:35
  Speaker 2: To Tony Harris, the journalist who hosted this A and Special, what.
• 40:41
  Speaker 3: Happened when Cindy had a panic attack?
• 40:43
  Speaker 11: She took the question that was being asked, and she
• 40:45
  Speaker 11: was responding to a particularly stunny allegation in cases Special,
• 40:51
  Speaker 11: and she just as was described a moment ago, the
• 40:54
  Speaker 11: breathing became shallow. She was clutching at her chest a bit,
• 40:59
  Speaker 11: and she just said, look, I just need to take
• 41:02
  Speaker 11: a moment here because I need to take my anxiety medicine.
• 41:06
  Speaker 11: And that's the part maybe you heard in it, but
• 41:07
  Speaker 11: she said I need to take my anxiety medicine. She
• 41:09
  Speaker 11: goes into the bedroom, George follows her. But there were
• 41:13
  Speaker 11: a couple of moments of that. There were at least
• 41:15
  Speaker 11: three moments when the weight of everything that was going
• 41:18
  Speaker 11: on was clearly impacting her. She got really upset when
• 41:23
  Speaker 11: she didn't think that George answered a question that I posed,
• 41:27
  Speaker 11: that he didn't answer it properly or correctly or in
• 41:31
  Speaker 11: as strong a fashion as he should have, and she
• 41:34
  Speaker 11: kind of lost it on George at that moment. There
• 41:36
  Speaker 11: was a moment in the taping of this where I
• 41:38
  Speaker 11: just said, look, we just need a bit of a
• 41:40
  Speaker 11: break in. Georgia, need to take you aside, because there
• 41:42
  Speaker 11: was a pressure to this whole interview. We were together
• 41:46
  Speaker 11: for four days and there was pressure building.
• 41:48
  Speaker 5: Well.
• 41:48
  Speaker 2: Of course, they have been pillorayed by millions of people
• 41:52
  Speaker 2: as liars, as killers, as child molesters ever since Kelly
• 41:56
  Speaker 2: went missing, and this is their chance to take a
• 41:59
  Speaker 2: polygra on video and prove that they're telling the truth.
• 42:03
  Speaker 2: I mean, Alexis Tereschuk joining me from Crime Stories as
• 42:07
  Speaker 2: investigative reporter Alexis.
• 42:09
  Speaker 3: You and I were there.
• 42:11
  Speaker 2: I think we were up in the balcony watching the trial.
• 42:14
  Speaker 2: Cindy would turn as white as a sheet up on
• 42:18
  Speaker 2: the stand. I thought she was going to pass out
• 42:19
  Speaker 2: when she was testifying at trial.
• 42:21
  Speaker 8: Because she was lying. She lied on for Casey. She
• 42:26
  Speaker 8: even though her granddaughter had been murdered by her daughter,
• 42:28
  Speaker 8: and she knew it. She knew this in her heart.
• 42:31
  Speaker 8: She knew she didn't do it. She knew George didn't
• 42:33
  Speaker 8: do it. She knew George didn't. It's actually abused. Casey
• 42:36
  Speaker 8: wasn't the father of little Kayley. She still got on
• 42:40
  Speaker 8: the stand and lied about her internet searches, trying to
• 42:43
  Speaker 8: take the blame for the things, when Casey was the
• 42:45
  Speaker 8: one that was trying to figure out through the Internet
• 42:47
  Speaker 8: how to kill her daughter.
• 42:48
  Speaker 2: Let's take a listen to what else Cindy Anthony says
• 42:51
  Speaker 2: regarding what happened to Kelly.
• 42:53
  Speaker 11: Listen, but I'm sensing some tension after her space partly
• 42:57
  Speaker 11: bath sure, she can.
• 42:58
  Speaker 3: Change our life. They can change our life. This is serious.
• 43:04
  Speaker 13: Okay, Well you both ready to hear her allegations.
• 43:08
  Speaker 3: I want to go on as long as George feels comfortable.
• 43:11
  Speaker 3: What did you mean by that, Tony? Are you ready
• 43:13
  Speaker 3: to hear her allegations? What did you mean by that?
• 43:15
  Speaker 11: So our setup was we were sitting in their home,
• 43:18
  Speaker 11: in their living room, and they had not watched What
• 43:21
  Speaker 11: they said to me is that they had not watched
• 43:24
  Speaker 11: Casey's documentary and so they were going to watch her
• 43:28
  Speaker 11: accusations in real time for the first time. They had
• 43:33
  Speaker 11: heard from friends, from press accounts what Casey was alleging,
• 43:37
  Speaker 11: but they were going to hear this from their daughter
• 43:39
  Speaker 11: for the first time. And when they heard this, needless
• 43:44
  Speaker 11: to say, it was pretty horrendous for them. Both George
• 43:49
  Speaker 11: and Cindy had physical reactions to what they were hearing.
• 43:53
  Speaker 3: Well, wait, what do you mean by that?
• 43:55
  Speaker 2: They had physical reactions to hearing their daughter lie about them?
• 43:59
  Speaker 11: Oh, well, this is again. These are the moments leading
• 44:02
  Speaker 11: up to a couple of breaks, I mean real sort
• 44:04
  Speaker 11: of emotional breaks for Cindy where she jumps up off
• 44:09
  Speaker 11: the couch right and there are stairs and side eyes
• 44:14
  Speaker 11: and everything else that seemed to speak volumes in those moments.
• 44:19
  Speaker 11: There's an accusation and George is trying to respond to it,
• 44:24
  Speaker 11: and Cindy's reacting to his response, So there was a
• 44:28
  Speaker 11: lot of body language. The thing I love about George's
• 44:32
  Speaker 11: exam is that it is it is gathering all of
• 44:35
  Speaker 11: the physiology. It is it is fingers moving and his
• 44:37
  Speaker 11: eyes batting, it is feet tapping, it is picking up
• 44:41
  Speaker 11: all of that. And as I'm watching the exam, I'm saying, Wow,
• 44:44
  Speaker 11: this is the same stuff I was seeing as I
• 44:47
  Speaker 11: was sitting across from them, as they were responding to
• 44:49
  Speaker 11: all of this, all of this non verbal information.
• 44:52
  Speaker 2: Hey, Tony, I was recently asked to take par in
• 44:58
  Speaker 2: a special TV program about Top Mom Casey Anthony, and
• 45:05
  Speaker 2: I asked about exactly what they wanted me to do.
• 45:10
  Speaker 2: I could not ask ask.
• 45:11
  Speaker 3: My own questions. I could not control the editing. It
• 45:15
  Speaker 3: was not A and E by the way.
• 45:19
  Speaker 2: They could cut out her responses if they didn't like it,
• 45:23
  Speaker 2: they could cut my questions. Bottom line, it wouldn't be true.
• 45:29
  Speaker 2: What was going to be presented. I don't think was
• 45:32
  Speaker 2: going to be the full truth, the truth, the whole truth,
• 45:37
  Speaker 2: and nothing but the truth. And I couldn't guarantee that,
• 45:40
  Speaker 2: so I would have nothing.
• 45:42
  Speaker 3: To do with it at all.
• 45:44
  Speaker 2: Let me ask you this, Tony Harris, in any way
• 45:49
  Speaker 2: have these lie detector tests on George and Cindy Anthony
• 45:53
  Speaker 2: been manipulated in any way for the viewer.
• 45:57
  Speaker 11: I will tell you what I know to be true
• 46:00
  Speaker 11: from the bottom, the top, the bottom of my heart.
• 46:02
  Speaker 11: I sat there in the room adjacent to where the
• 46:06
  Speaker 11: exams are going on. There was no manipulation. There was
• 46:10
  Speaker 11: these questions. They were very specific about the questions. George
• 46:15
  Speaker 11: had two exams, Cindy had one exam. The questions were
• 46:20
  Speaker 11: very specific, very pointed, and in our review of it
• 46:26
  Speaker 11: for the broadcast, Georgia Lebo says, here are the questions.
• 46:31
  Speaker 11: Not only does he repeat the question in front of
• 46:33
  Speaker 11: George and Cindy and me before he gives the results,
• 46:37
  Speaker 11: we cut to him asking those very same questions in
• 46:41
  Speaker 11: the actual exam. Okay, now that's the kind of transparency
• 46:45
  Speaker 11: we brought to this. I have no idea what kind
• 46:49
  Speaker 11: of transparency what took place in cases a version of
• 46:53
  Speaker 11: the story, but I can vouch for what we did
• 46:56
  Speaker 11: one hundred and ten percent.
• 46:57
  Speaker 3: I don't either, Tony. I wouldn't touch that with a
• 47:00
  Speaker 3: ten foot poll.
• 47:01
  Speaker 2: You know, I didn't spend my whole life fighting for victims'
• 47:05
  Speaker 2: rights and trying cases and taking the attacks of other
• 47:09
  Speaker 2: people to lose all of that work, to have it
• 47:15
  Speaker 2: smeared by taking part and a quote special where the
• 47:21
  Speaker 2: program is manipulated to show only what some producer wants
• 47:25
  Speaker 2: you to see.
• 47:26
  Speaker 3: John W.
• 47:27
  Speaker 2: Deal joining me, high profile lawyer out of Winter Park, Florida,
• 47:31
  Speaker 2: this jurisdiction.
• 47:32
  Speaker 3: You can find him at John W. Deal dot com.
• 47:35
  Speaker 3: You know, top Mom never took a lie detector that was.
• 47:38
  Speaker 2: Made public by the anyway, never offered to take a
• 47:43
  Speaker 2: lie detector. Never, Gee, I wonder why you got Georgia
• 47:47
  Speaker 2: Cindy stepping up and hitting a home run. Top Mom,
• 47:50
  Speaker 2: Casey Anthony would never dare She wouldn't get close to
• 47:54
  Speaker 2: a lie detector.
• 47:54
  Speaker 9: She would never get close to the cross examination either. Obviously,
• 47:58
  Speaker 9: never sent for her deposition, took the fenth amendment even
• 48:01
  Speaker 9: though she had already been acquitted. So, you know, a
• 48:04
  Speaker 9: lot of people would like to answer some questions, and
• 48:07
  Speaker 9: especially now that if you think about it, Kaylee is right.
• 48:10
  Speaker 9: It would be eighteen eighteen, almost nineteen. It's about the
• 48:13
  Speaker 9: same age that Kasey wes when she had her So
• 48:17
  Speaker 9: that just shows you that it's a whole lifetime essentially. Now,
• 48:21
  Speaker 9: little Kaylee, all of this going on, and the damage
• 48:25
  Speaker 9: just continues to continues from Kasey Anstey.
• 48:28
  Speaker 2: And remember when we found out that OJ Sepson took
• 48:32
  Speaker 2: a lide detector.
• 48:34
  Speaker 3: Hey, Sidney, can you look up his desk?
• 48:36
  Speaker 10: Gore?
• 48:36
  Speaker 3: I think it was like a negative forty two.
• 48:39
  Speaker 2: And of course they would never present that in front
• 48:42
  Speaker 2: of a jury, and typically light detectors are not allowed
• 48:46
  Speaker 2: in a criminal case unless both parties stipulate to the
• 48:49
  Speaker 2: admission of the lie detector before the test is taken.
• 48:52
  Speaker 3: But that jury never knews Sepsent had totally faun I mean,
• 48:59
  Speaker 3: worse than a zero. It's like a negative.
• 49:01
  Speaker 2: Just tell me, Sydney negative twenty four, not just just zero,
• 49:06
  Speaker 2: but a negative twenty four.
• 49:07
  Speaker 3: That's how badly you flaunked it.
• 49:09
  Speaker 2: So, I mean, is anybody on this panel ever heard
• 49:13
  Speaker 2: the top mom Casey Anthony even took a polygraph, much.
• 49:17
  Speaker 3: Less passed a polygraph?
• 49:19
  Speaker 9: No, no, no, ever, no way.
• 49:22
  Speaker 3: So to you, George Olivo, did they.
• 49:26
  Speaker 14: Pass absolutely they did?
• 49:28
  Speaker 3: How much did they pass? Did they make a seventy
• 49:30
  Speaker 3: or did they make a ninety? Or do you just
• 49:32
  Speaker 3: say pass fail?
• 49:33
  Speaker 14: Well, the numbers don't really mean much unless you understand
• 49:36
  Speaker 14: the scoring scale and I'm not sure you just mentioned
• 49:39
  Speaker 14: something about j Simpson. There's different formats and legitimate polygraph,
• 49:44
  Speaker 14: and I guess for me, the selfish thing I want
• 49:48
  Speaker 14: to put out there is for people to know that
• 49:50
  Speaker 14: there's clearly a difference between legitimate polygraph and movie and
• 49:54
  Speaker 14: TV polygraph. You know, you have to understand the difference
• 49:57
  Speaker 14: between a real apple and a plastic apple. It's the difference.
• 50:00
  Speaker 14: And so there's different scoring scales, and there's different formats
• 50:04
  Speaker 14: for testing.
• 50:05
  Speaker 3: You have to you know, good examiner has Okay, stop
• 50:07
  Speaker 3: you're making my headspin. Did they pass it or not?
• 50:10
  Speaker 11: Absolutely, they did pass it.
• 50:13
  Speaker 3: Both of them passed it. Would you go so far
• 50:15
  Speaker 3: to say they passed it with flying colors?
• 50:17
  Speaker 14: Yes, not that I would want to put, you know,
• 50:20
  Speaker 14: a value on you know, truth or not truth in
• 50:25
  Speaker 14: terms of a little bit of truth or a lot
• 50:27
  Speaker 14: of truth.
• 50:27
  Speaker 12: They passed.
• 50:28
  Speaker 14: They're telling the truth.
• 50:29
  Speaker 2: Are you sure you're not also a lawyer, because that
• 50:31
  Speaker 2: was a yes, no question. Well did they pass with
• 50:34
  Speaker 2: flying collars?
• 50:35
  Speaker 3: Yes?
• 50:35
  Speaker 11: No? Well yes, yes, it would be a yes.
• 50:38
  Speaker 3: Okay, then yes they did. They passed with flying colors.
• 50:41
  Speaker 3: And Todd I won't even get in the same room
• 50:44
  Speaker 3: with a polygrapher, you know.
• 50:45
  Speaker 2: And again this is no face to you, Tony Harris,
• 50:47
  Speaker 2: because I really not only enjoyed seeing Cindy and George again. Yeah,
• 50:55
  Speaker 2: but I'm glad they took the test. I'm glad they
• 50:58
  Speaker 2: took the test because so many people have doubted them.
• 51:02
  Speaker 2: Of course, those people are still probably gonna be naysayers,
• 51:06
  Speaker 2: even though they have a legitimate polygraph task that George
• 51:09
  Speaker 2: and City passed. Yeah, but I'm telling you day one,
• 51:13
  Speaker 2: they were the ones that were looking for Kelly. They're
• 51:16
  Speaker 2: the ones that call nine to one one. They are
• 51:19
  Speaker 2: the ones that took the stand. They are the ones
• 51:23
  Speaker 2: that took care of the baby. They did not hurt Kelly.
• 51:27
  Speaker 2: But I'm really proud to talk to you Tony Harris
• 51:32
  Speaker 2: and to you Georgia Levo, because you have given scientific
• 51:36
  Speaker 2: proof to what my heart told me on day one.
• 51:40
  Speaker 2: But in the end, no justice for Kelly, and that
• 51:46
  Speaker 2: is like eating a dirt sandwich.
• 51:51
  Speaker 3: Thank you to A and E for what you have
• 51:53
  Speaker 3: done for us.
• 51:56
  Speaker 13: Goodby's gonna