Latest / Pod Therapy / #359: Dr. Rick Hanson

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#359: Dr. Rick Hanson · Pod Therapy

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  Speaker 1: For I'm fabulous Las Vegas, Nevada.
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  Speaker 2: It is POS Therapy coming to you by way of
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  Speaker 2: the recording studio at UNLV. It's a doctor Jim only
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  Speaker 2: show with a very special guest today. So buckle up everyone,
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  Speaker 2: because here is doctor Jim Joban and this is pod Therapy.
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  Speaker 3: Well welcome, everybody. I am so excited to be joined
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  Speaker 3: by my guest today, and let me just do a
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  Speaker 3: little bit of an introduction to him.
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  Speaker 1: So.
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  Speaker 3: Doctor Rick Hanson is a psychologist, Senior Fellow at UC
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  Speaker 3: Berkeley's Greater Good Science Center, and a New York Times
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  Speaker 3: bestselling author. His seven books have been published in thirty
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  Speaker 3: three languages and sold over a million copies in English alone.
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  Speaker 3: He's founder of the Global Compassion Coalition and the well
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  Speaker 3: Spring Institute for Neuroscience and Contemplative Wisdom, as well as
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  Speaker 3: the co host of the Being Well podcast, which has
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  Speaker 3: been downloaded over fifteen million times. He's lectured at NASA, Google, Oxford,
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  Speaker 3: and Harvard. His work has been featured on CBS, NPR,
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  Speaker 3: and the BBC, and now finally he's getting his big
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  Speaker 3: break to be a guest on the forty eighth most
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  Speaker 3: popular mental health podcast on Good pods pod therapy. Doctor
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  Speaker 3: Rick Hanson, thank you so much for.
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  Speaker 1: Joining me today. That was a great introduction. Thank you.
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  Speaker 1: I'm glad to be here.
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  Speaker 3: You finally made it. But this is your chance.
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  Speaker 1: Don't blow it. Okay, good.
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  Speaker 3: So you're in fabulous Las Vegas, Nevada. You've been guesting
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  Speaker 3: here at at the University of Nevada, Las Vegas. You've
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  Speaker 3: been speaking in small groups, you're speaking a large group
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  Speaker 3: later on this evening. Is this your first trip to
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  Speaker 3: Las Vegas.
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  Speaker 1: No, I've been here before. I was here a year
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  Speaker 1: ago and I also caught a day of rock climbing
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  Speaker 1: and oh digit you went over to Red Rocks. Yeah. Yeah,
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  Speaker 1: I've been really struck by a Las Vegas. I mean,
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  Speaker 1: once you as people say, move out of that, you
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  Speaker 1: know strip kind of air, right, suddenly it's a whole
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  Speaker 1: other world.
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  Speaker 3: Thank goodness, it is because we've been getting this f
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  Speaker 3: one race. Have you heard about this same the ads
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  Speaker 3: they rip the whole place up to build this race track.
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  Speaker 3: The locals are just crying because we're all stuck in traffic.
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  Speaker 3: But as a Californian, you know a thing or.
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  Speaker 1: Tell about traffic you've heard of in La Yeah, even
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  Speaker 1: now in northern California is starting to suffer the effects.
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  Speaker 3: Yes, it's there's just no winning. Well, a lot of
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  Speaker 3: Californians like to come over to Nevada and to Las
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  Speaker 3: Vegas and relocate. And it's funny because they usually tease
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  Speaker 3: us when we complain about traffic. They say, you don't know,
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  Speaker 3: this is nothing you can get from one corner to
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  Speaker 3: the other when you're in town. Are there any Las
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  Speaker 3: Vegas things you like to do? Do you like to
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  Speaker 3: see a show? Are there any shows you have seen?
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  Speaker 3: Anything you like to do? That's kind of the tourist thing.
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  Speaker 1: I've always been in and out really quickly. And if
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  Speaker 1: I could offers something that is not not meant as
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  Speaker 1: a slur on Las Vegas, but as a haunting personal
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  Speaker 1: lesson God. So I grew up in Los Angeles. I
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  Speaker 1: went to Disneyland a lot builled as the happiest place
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  Speaker 1: on Earth. And when I got a little older and
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  Speaker 1: we started taking our kids there, I began observing that
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  Speaker 1: in the so called happiest place on Earth, there was
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  Speaker 1: a lot of stress, weariness, irritability, exhaustion, and just dealing
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  Speaker 1: with a system that is essentially an endless money extraction process.
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  Speaker 1: Different situation. I came to Las Vegas. I recalled maybe
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  Speaker 1: thirty five forty years ago. I was much younger than
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  Speaker 1: and I remember walking through a casino, and I'm going
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  Speaker 1: to reveal a little about myself heterosexual assist gender male. Now.
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  Speaker 1: I was walking through the casino and I noticed that
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  Speaker 1: there was a woman in front of me, walking away,
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  Speaker 1: and I was, of course getting the view from the
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  Speaker 1: back sure, and I thought, oh, oh, beautiful, wonderful, interesting.
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  Speaker 1: And then as I walked past her and she turned,
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  Speaker 1: suddenly I saw someone who was really quite old, whose
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  Speaker 1: face you could just tell had been really ravaged by
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  Speaker 1: a lot of hard knocks, a lot of mistreatment, a
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  Speaker 1: lot of difficulty, a lot of suffering. I'm seeing everything
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  Speaker 1: I'm saying really out of respect for her. And I
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  Speaker 1: realized suddenly that there's a world of difference between the
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  Speaker 1: attractive rapping and what's actually inside the box. Well, and
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  Speaker 1: I think so much of life these days and everyday
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  Speaker 1: practical wisdom is to know the difference between the wrapping
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  Speaker 1: in the box, yes, and to be able to not
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  Speaker 1: be so manipulated that in ways that often land on
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  Speaker 1: our biological vulnerabilities, whether it's an appeal to greed or
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  Speaker 1: an appeal to grievance, which so dominates our current politics.
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  Speaker 1: To realize we're just vulnerable to those kind of appeals,
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  Speaker 1: and to look past them to the substance of what
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  Speaker 1: is actually good for oneself and for those we care about,
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  Speaker 1: including in widening circles that include the whole human species,
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  Speaker 1: a billion of us, and all life on the planet altogether,
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  Speaker 1: what actually is in our own best interest? Wow, so
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  Speaker 1: I'm sure we'll be talking about that.
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  Speaker 3: Well, I got to tell you, Las Vegas is not
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  Speaker 3: in anybody's best interest. We are the wrapping paper around
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  Speaker 3: all the things that people come to distract themselves from.
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  Speaker 1: The Better Lives show. That's probably less than ten percent
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  Speaker 1: of the total. I mean, I got to walk through
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  Speaker 1: UNLV and I had a really great tofu bowl at
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  Speaker 1: the Good Yeah. Yeah, And a little bit later, I
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  Speaker 1: get to be in a museum and here we are
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  Speaker 1: in a library. Yes, and yeah. That's another thing I
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  Speaker 1: just want to offer too, about what do we actually notice.
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  Speaker 1: I mean, we're I'm a psychologist with a particular interest
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  Speaker 1: in the intersection of clinical psychology, which for me includes
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  Speaker 1: coaching the human potential movement practical psychology. Okay, the intersection
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  Speaker 1: of that with brain science, what's going on in your
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  Speaker 1: brain as your mood lifts or plummets. And third, informed
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  Speaker 1: by thousands of years of contemplative wisdom. I'm most informed
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  Speaker 1: and trained in the Buddhist tradition, which has the most
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  Speaker 1: kind of connection with modern science. There are other traditions
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  Speaker 1: as well, and those of the indigenous First Nations native
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  Speaker 1: peoples around the world, they too have contemplative tradition.
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  Speaker 3: I'm glad you're bringing this up. This is an area
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  Speaker 3: I really wanted to explore with you. As I mentioned
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  Speaker 3: in your introduction, you are a prolific author, and several
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  Speaker 3: of your books Buddhist Brain Neurodharma, they discuss this correlation
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  Speaker 3: between Buddhist discipline and mental health, and I wonder if
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  Speaker 3: you can take us into that to help us understand
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  Speaker 3: how did you discover Buddhism and when did you begin
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  Speaker 3: sort of untangling how these two realities, these two areas
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  Speaker 3: of passion, these two areas that have influenced your life.
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  Speaker 3: When did you start kind of mixing the chocolate with
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  Speaker 3: the peanut butter here and creating something special.
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  Speaker 1: That's one of the great food combinations.
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  Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, a caramid group as farren fries.
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  Speaker 1: That's right, Okay, okay, if I'll get into that by
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  Speaker 1: kind of completing the previous point, which is much as
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  Speaker 1: we were just talking about. It's easy to get distracted
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  Speaker 1: by the shining negative objects, right, because one of the
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  Speaker 1: great useful findings in evolutionary neuropsychology is that the brain
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  Speaker 1: has a negativity bias, which helped our ancestors lived to
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  Speaker 1: see the sunrise, you know, back in the day, whether
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  Speaker 1: it's the three hundred thousand years of anatomically modern humans
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  Speaker 1: or the two million years before that, in which our
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  Speaker 1: ancestors were smart enough to make stone tools even with
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  Speaker 1: brains eventually about a third or size. And then even
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  Speaker 1: before that, down that long run six hundred million years
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  Speaker 1: of evolution of the nervous system, our ancestors needed to
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  Speaker 1: both get the keras and avoid the sticks, you know, carrots, food, sticks, predators,
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  Speaker 1: et cetera. If you failed to get a carrot today,
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  Speaker 1: you'd have a chance at one tomorrow. But if you
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  Speaker 1: failed to avoid that stick today, whack, no more, care,
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  Speaker 1: no more, You're done. So we're biased exactly right to
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  Speaker 1: really really you know, avoid carrots, and if we survive
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  Speaker 1: an encounter with a carrot, probably to avoid sticks. And
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  Speaker 1: if we survive an encounter with a stick, to overlearn
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  Speaker 1: from it. That's the negativity bias. It shrinks our brain
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  Speaker 1: like velcrow for the bad and teugh on for the good.
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  Speaker 1: So when I wonder the alleyways of UNLV, the highways
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  Speaker 1: and byways of Las Vegas, I deliberately try to put
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  Speaker 1: in a kind of correction factor or that bias. That's
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  Speaker 1: not about rose colored glasses. It's about seeing the world clearly,
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  Speaker 1: while also making sure I don't miss the many many
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  Speaker 1: people who are just doing their job, who are just
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  Speaker 1: getting through the day, who are good hearted, who will
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  Speaker 1: tell me how to get to the library if I
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  Speaker 1: ask them, who are just trying to get an education,
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  Speaker 1: They're just trying to build a house. They're just good.
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  Speaker 1: You know, the sky is still blue, right, you know
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  Speaker 1: the sun is still shining. I woke up this morning,
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  Speaker 1: rather than the alternative. That's pretty good. So I think
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  Speaker 1: this is really important to pay attention to attention. And
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  Speaker 1: that's where the contemplative traditions have a lot to say
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  Speaker 1: and to give thought to where is our attention resting?
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  Speaker 1: Because in a traditional saying the mind takes its shape
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  Speaker 1: from what it repeatedly rests upon. The brain takes its
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  Speaker 1: shape since neurons that fire together, why will wire together? Yeah,
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  Speaker 1: the brain takes its shape from what we rest upon.
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  Speaker 1: So I was drawn to the Eastern traditions. I think
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  Speaker 1: by grace. Certainly, there was no good reason why this shy,
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  Speaker 1: dorky Ki who grew up in an ordinary middle middle
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  Speaker 1: class suburban environment in Los Angeles, at the end of
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  Speaker 1: his time at UCLA final quarter needed to get twelve
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  Speaker 1: units of independent study, and I said, well, I don't
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  Speaker 1: know anything about Eastern traditions. I'm gonna just check it out.
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  Speaker 1: So I did, and suddenly, wow, you know, I appreciated
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  Speaker 1: the analysis of the mind I found in Buddhism, especially
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  Speaker 1: early Buddhism, which is very psychological. It's kind of logical.
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  Speaker 1: There's not a lot of wo woo in it. That
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  Speaker 1: made a lot of sense to me. I was a
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  Speaker 1: super casual meditator, kind of foolish, but I think of
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  Speaker 1: levels of meditation, Level one is just sit on the
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  Speaker 1: couch and stop stressing. That counts. Yeah, Hey, I kind
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  Speaker 1: of had that. I kind of had that, And then
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  Speaker 1: you know, you can get deeper and deeper and deeper
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  Speaker 1: into it. So I went along there, and one after
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  Speaker 1: kind of wandering around in a lot of human potential stuff,
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  Speaker 1: in my twenties I realized, Whoo, I really better go
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  Speaker 1: to grad school. So then I spent my thirties more
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  Speaker 1: or less in grad school one or another developmental psychology,
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  Speaker 1: family systems, and then a clinical PhD. And then in
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  Speaker 1: my forties I got very interested in what happens when
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  Speaker 1: children come along, because they had so my first book,
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  Speaker 1: Mother Nurture, was about the long term care and support
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  Speaker 1: for the people who are doing all of the bearing
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  Speaker 1: and most of the rearing, much of their rearing, certainly,
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  Speaker 1: certainly the great majority of the rearing of our precious
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  Speaker 1: children women. Yes, And that was my first book. And
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  Speaker 1: then along the way with that, I got more deeply
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  Speaker 1: into contemplative practice, particularly Buddhist contemplatary practice. And then with that,
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  Speaker 1: neuroscience kind of exploded in the nineteen nineties, the Decade
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  Speaker 1: of the Brain, and so by the time I did
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  Speaker 1: the preliminaries for Buddhist Brain and then wrote that book,
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  Speaker 1: my second book, there was enough practical brain science that
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  Speaker 1: you could actually offer helpful I the subtitle was The
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  Speaker 1: Practical Brains Science of Happiness, Love and Wisdom. There was
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  Speaker 1: enough there I could do the practical stuff. So that's it.
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  Speaker 1: That's my background. That's how it all well.
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  Speaker 3: And it's so interesting to hear about how all these
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  Speaker 3: things developed at once.
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  Speaker 1: I didn't know that.
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  Speaker 3: I sort of assumed that you had done your clinical
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  Speaker 3: work and then along the way, perhaps because I think
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  Speaker 3: a lot of clinicians now have discovered mindfulness as a concept,
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  Speaker 3: and I think it's got to be tricky to those
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  Speaker 3: who take it extremely seriously, who know it back to front,
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  Speaker 3: to hear the rest of us just sort of casually
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  Speaker 3: tossing it out there all the time. So, yeah, try
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  Speaker 3: some of this, and that's got to be annoying. I
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  Speaker 3: would imagine that you're so close, you're knocking on the
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  Speaker 3: right door, if only you would go all the way in.
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  Speaker 1: There's so much here.
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  Speaker 3: And I sort of assumed that you had done your
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  Speaker 3: academic work and then just discovered this as many of
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  Speaker 3: us had. And no, it sounds like for you you
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  Speaker 3: came about it completely organically, and both of these streams
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  Speaker 3: of consciousness grew together, and so you've been weaving Buddhist principles,
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  Speaker 3: some of the these thinkings into your clinical work all
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  Speaker 3: along pretty much. Yeah, gosh, that's you know, I got
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  Speaker 3: to give you credit. You were there before it was cool.
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  Speaker 1: Does extent, and there's certainly other really really early adopters
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  Speaker 1: along before me, and then certainly bringing in the neuroscience aspect,
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  Speaker 1: paying attention to with a sense of gratitude and wonder,
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  Speaker 1: Holy gomoly, what's going on under the hood. Yeah, you know,
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  Speaker 1: right now, people listening, we already know this brain has
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  Speaker 1: about eighty five billion neurons, with another one hundred billion
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  Speaker 1: or so support cells. Typical neurons make up several thousand connections.
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  Speaker 1: We'll do the math that gives us several hundred trillion
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  Speaker 1: little microprocessors, each one of those junctions sparkling away. As
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  Speaker 1: a Shearington. Early neuroscientist referred to it, The brain is
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  Speaker 1: the enchanted loom, continually weaving the fabric of consciousness.
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  Speaker 2: Wow.
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  Speaker 1: Wow, And there's so much we don't know. We don't
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  Speaker 1: know what's called the hard problem. We don't know the
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  Speaker 1: solution yet to the hard problem. In the world does
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  Speaker 1: the information processing which is undeniably true. The brain is tangible,
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  Speaker 1: it is representing and processing information which is intangible yet
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  Speaker 1: exists as a natural phenomenon. That's what we mean, my mind.
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  Speaker 1: Mind equals all the information represented by a creature's nervous system,
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  Speaker 1: whether it's a complicated creature like you and me, or
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  Speaker 1: an ant with about one hundred thousand neurons compared to
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  Speaker 1: eighty five billion, or a honeybee. Makes me happy that
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  Speaker 1: a honeybee has about ten times as many neurons as
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  Speaker 1: an ant. You know a way to honey bees? Yay?
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  Speaker 1: I think honeybees are having experiences. Yeah, maybe even ants
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  Speaker 1: as well. In any case, we don't yet know how
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  Speaker 1: information translates to hearing and seeing, pain and pleasure and doing.
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  Speaker 1: We're not exactly clear about that, but we figure there
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  Speaker 1: must be a relationship between our experiences, which map very closely.
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  Speaker 1: They correlate very tightly. Flows of experiences map very very tightly,
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  Speaker 1: two flows of information, which map two flows of neural
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  Speaker 1: activity m H, and repeated patterns of neural activity underlying
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  Speaker 1: repeated patterns of experiences leave lasting physical traces behind.
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  Speaker 3: This to me has always been so fascinating. Neuroplasticity is
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  Speaker 3: this thing that I feel like in your tenure in
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  Speaker 3: this profession and through your graduate work you witnessed sort
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  Speaker 3: of the discovery of this and really exploring this in
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  Speaker 3: real applied purposes. And I still find it fascinating that
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  Speaker 3: this is true, that you brought it up earlier, that
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  Speaker 3: where you put the brain, it takes the shape you know,
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  Speaker 3: water in the cup. We take the shape of the cup,
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  Speaker 3: and those neurons firing together, wiring together. For the general audience,
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  Speaker 3: we may be talking three or four chapters further than
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  Speaker 3: they understand. Yet whenever you're asked to just explain what
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  Speaker 3: we mean that when we say that the neurons the brain,
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  Speaker 3: the stuff in your skull is plastic, what does that mean,
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  Speaker 3: doctor Hanson?
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  Speaker 1: And please call me Rick, so I can call you
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  Speaker 1: Jim there.
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  Speaker 3: I prefer his holiness, but you may.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, So let's see here. Well, a simple natural
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  Speaker 1: example that we're used to is that if you, for example,
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  Speaker 1: lift some way and you do it repeatedly, or do
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  Speaker 1: some activity like going for vigorous walks, you will grow muscle. Right,
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  Speaker 1: So the body is changing based on activity. Well, in
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  Speaker 1: the brain, its function is to basically process information, and
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  Speaker 1: you have all these neurons that are connected together as
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  Speaker 1: they repeatedly fire and fire together, which means within a
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  Speaker 1: few milliseconds. At the same time, these natural biological processes
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  Speaker 1: start literally connecting them together. New little tendrils grow that
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  Speaker 1: form new connections between these two neurons. Different receptor sites
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  Speaker 1: in the downstream neuron become more active because the upstream
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  Speaker 1: neuron is sending more little bubbles. They're essentially bubbles called
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  Speaker 1: vesicles of let's say, one hundred molecules of serotonin or
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  Speaker 1: dopamine or gabba across that little tiny synaptic left, so
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  Speaker 1: that downstream of docking sites, it's a little bit like
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  Speaker 1: a containership arriving with one hundred molecules at the docking site,
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  Speaker 1: which then receives it. Well, is all that happens. Physical
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  Speaker 1: changes literally occur in your brain. Other kinds of changes
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  Speaker 1: occur too. For example, at the epigenetic level, the expression
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  Speaker 1: of gene The genes themselves don't change, but the expression
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  Speaker 1: of the genes change again based on repeated activity. A
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  Speaker 1: blood flow. The little tiny capillaries will bring more blood
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  Speaker 1: to regions of the brain that are busy because it's
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  Speaker 1: like the muscle, you know, they're working more, so they
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  Speaker 1: need more blood flow. And these kind of lasting changes
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  Speaker 1: for better or worse. Right, you can develop more mindfulness.
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  Speaker 1: Let's say you started there. That is correlated with measurable
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  Speaker 1: changes in the brain. Certainly after eight weeks of a
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  Speaker 1: mindfulness training course, and even fairly short lived changes in
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  Speaker 1: the brain. Even after just a single training experience mindfulness,
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  Speaker 1: you can see discernible changes. You can also see it
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  Speaker 1: with trauma. You can see changes in the brain that
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  Speaker 1: are lasting based on traumatic experiences. And for me it
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  Speaker 1: almost sounds kind of mysterious. But if you work backwards,
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  Speaker 1: you've got Once upon a time, doctor Jobyn, you were witness.
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  Speaker 1: Thank you. You were a little baby. You were a
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: little baby. So I'm imagining little Jimmy who was learning
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  Speaker 1: to walk and not crawl. And if you've had kids
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: or have been around kids, you can imagine that kid
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  Speaker 1: learning to walk instead of crawl. Well, learning occurred, that
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  Speaker 1: kid acquired a skill or a strength. Now fast forward
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: that kid is in high school and blundering socially and
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: then hopefully learning something from it. Oh, don't say that
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: stupid thing that we're oh, slow it down more, We're oh,
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: don't let that bully jerk get into your head. Oh,
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: there's learning of some kind all right, something has to
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: change in the body. If there's learning by definition, whether
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: it's two plus two is four, or you know, learning
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: that your parents alcoholism was not your fault. Wow, Okay,
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: something has to change right, otherwise you're left with magic. Now,
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: I believe in some kinds of magic, and we may
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: go there. I don't know. But most of the time,
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: if not all the time, inside the natural universe, the
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: Big Bang universe, if there is any kind of change
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: that's durable over time, something has to have changed in
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: the body right to enable that change in the mind.
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: And where that change typically happens is in the three
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: pounds of coconut, three pounds of tofu like tissue inside
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: the coconut, inside the coconut. That is the brain that's
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: so wild.
• 20:33
  Speaker 3: And one of the things you said that I think
• 20:35
  Speaker 3: fascinates people when they really look into this, when you
• 20:38
  Speaker 3: say the brain is literally changing. Yeah, you mean, honestly,
• 20:42
  Speaker 3: if we look through a device that allows us to
• 20:45
  Speaker 3: see your brain, and if we can zoom in, we
• 20:49
  Speaker 3: actually see your brain changing shape and structure, and doesn't
• 20:55
  Speaker 3: mean it's going to take the shape of a triangle.
• 20:57
  Speaker 3: It still looks like a brain at the big level.
• 20:59
  Speaker 3: But when you really when we zoom in, those neurons
• 21:02
  Speaker 3: are moving their actual physical location and position and tying
• 21:06
  Speaker 3: themselves to others. I heard a colleague of ours back
• 21:09
  Speaker 3: in the day try to equate it to a tennis player,
• 21:12
  Speaker 3: and he was using Andrea Agassy, who was very important
• 21:14
  Speaker 3: at the time, and he said, you know, Andrea Agassy
• 21:16
  Speaker 3: has seen so many tennis balls moving at such a
• 21:19
  Speaker 3: fast speed that his brain is neurologically wired to look
• 21:23
  Speaker 3: for the tennis ball faster. And that's partly how an
• 21:27
  Speaker 3: expert is created. Is we talk about the ten thousand
• 21:31
  Speaker 3: hours of experience, and that to me seems adjacent to
• 21:34
  Speaker 3: what you're talking about with this is how the neurology works.
• 21:37
  Speaker 3: But full circle back to and this is why you
• 21:40
  Speaker 3: have to be so intentional about overcoming the negative bias,
• 21:44
  Speaker 3: exposing your brain to exactly what you want it to
• 21:47
  Speaker 3: be more responsive too. If you want to be good
• 21:50
  Speaker 3: at tennis, you need to look for tennis balls. But
• 21:52
  Speaker 3: if you're out here not looking at those, you won't
• 21:55
  Speaker 3: be surprised that you never get good at tennis. And
• 21:58
  Speaker 3: it sounds like you're talking about intentional neuro engineering oneself.
• 22:04
  Speaker 3: And this is the practical application of what you're talking.
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: About extremely well said, and for thousands and thousands of years,
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: people have developed themselves in all kinds of ways, like learning,
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: for example, how to shoot a bow and arrow, or
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: discern where water is located, or to pick up the
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: difference between the sound of a predator approaching prior to
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: food prey approaching. We learn, animals learn. You can train
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: literally a worm to turn left rather than right at
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: a junction in a maze because there's some kind of
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: something that's aversive on the right, and let's say there's
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: something pleasant like food on the left. You can train it.
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: It will learn. And then when you you know, with
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: ethical considerations aside, dissect the nervous system of the worm,
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: you will detect discernible lasting changes in a trained worm
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: compared to an un for example. And to me, the
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: takeaway is gratitude and responsibility. The build out instructions for
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: our brain have been the result of six hundred million
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: years of evolution of the nervous system in life altogether.
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: And that's an evolution that occurs through the deaths of
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: a lot of casualties, many of which didn't make it
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: to pass on their genes just randomly. It wasn't like
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: they were unfit in some Darwinian sense, but those deaths
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: enabled the tiny incremental mutations literally in one in one
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: hundred thousand, one in a million of individuals who were
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: then a little more capable, whose descendants were a little
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: more likely to survive, which then gradually Da da da
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: da da da da da. Thank you, evolution enabled us
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: to be here today, could possibly earn the gift of
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: a human brain, right right, gratitude, gratitude, what will we
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: do with that gift? And the second part is because
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: of neuroplasticity, we have a sacred power to be able
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: to We can't change the past, and we can't even
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: change the present as it is occurring, but we can
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: continually influence our future, if only in terms of our
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: relationship to what it is. Even if we can't change
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: the circumstances or some of the baggage like chronic illness
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: or the legacy of trauma, say that we're carrying with us,
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: at least we can grow in our relationship to it.
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: So we have this power to influence who we are becoming.
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: Wow through literally for me, it's kind of a very
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: simple summary deal with the bad, turn to the good,
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: take in the good. For sure. This is not about
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: bypassing the bad. If anything, this is the how to
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: grow the strengths. Is the essence a deliberate self reliance
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: over time. As you got said earlier phrase from doctor
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: Jeffrey Schwartz a UCLA self directed neuroplasticity. Who are you
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: helping yourself become for your sake and for the sake
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: of others? What's the most important minute in your life?
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: The next one? Minute after minute after a minute. So
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: we do have that influence, We do have that power.
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: Where do we rest our attention and what do we
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: do with what it rests upon? Can we withdraw our
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: attention from the shiny, alarming objects that make us ruminate
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: and feel helpless and hopeless and aggrieved and resentful and
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: like we want to slug somebody. I understand those feelings.
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: I have them, but they're not good to allow as
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: a boat to put it a long time ago. You know,
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: these things pass through awareness, that's normal. Don't let them
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: invade and remain. That's the distinction, right, And also, can
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: we pull our attention and sustain it with what's good?
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: Like I appreciate our connection right here. We didn't meet
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: really before I walked on the door here, but you're
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: a great listener. We're present. It's not a million dollar moment,
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: but what it is is real. Why not slow down
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: to absorb it? And many other examples of that. So
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: deal with the bad, turn to the good, take in
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: the good. And that sacred power cannot be taken from us, Yes,
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: but no one can use it except us. That's so
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: irresponsible for it, and so we earn the fruits of
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: our practice. It's poetic and it's I think a message
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: that we need. As you and I are sitting down
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: here to record this. It's November of twenty twenty four.
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: It has been a very long political year and a
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: lot of our friends and communities are reeling as change
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: is happening, and things are more polarized than ever, stakes
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: are higher than ever. More people are affected by elections
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: in a very personal and direct way than have happened
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: in the past. And a moment ago you were sharing
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: you know, we don't have control over the outside of ourselves.
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: There are realities that exists.
• 27:03
  Speaker 3: You know. The caveman as well experienced storms and volcanoes
• 27:06
  Speaker 3: and forest fires and bears, and there is this negativity bias,
• 27:11
  Speaker 3: and that's to keep us alive. And when we are
• 27:14
  Speaker 3: surrounded by a world that is all fire alarms going
• 27:20
  Speaker 3: off at once, and many of them very legitimately warning
• 27:24
  Speaker 3: us of real fires, it's not all just burning toasts.
• 27:27
  Speaker 3: Sometimes there really are dangers that present themselves. I'm hearing
• 27:31
  Speaker 3: what you're sharing as a message of hope, but also
• 27:34
  Speaker 3: I think very importantly you're not telling us to bury
• 27:38
  Speaker 3: our heads in the ground. I don't hear you saying,
• 27:40
  Speaker 3: you know, just negative things are a lie, don't worry
• 27:43
  Speaker 3: about it, Just be positive man at all, work out,
• 27:46
  Speaker 3: don't worry. I don't hear that. I hear you kind
• 27:49
  Speaker 3: of reflecting. I think what is also a Buddhist principle
• 27:52
  Speaker 3: of this idea of right sizing things? You know, I
• 27:54
  Speaker 3: don't think that Buddhism ever said pretend like there's nothing bad.
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: I think that.
• 27:58
  Speaker 3: Buddha taught be mindful about it in a sense of
• 28:02
  Speaker 3: right sizing, what is the danger, what is the negative?
• 28:05
  Speaker 3: And being of right mind and right action. And I
• 28:08
  Speaker 3: wonder if you can kind of share a little bit
• 28:10
  Speaker 3: about this very modern moment that we're in, this very
• 28:13
  Speaker 3: precient reality of being surrounded by sticks and fire alarms
• 28:17
  Speaker 3: and scary things. And here you and I are two
• 28:20
  Speaker 3: little worms in the maze, trying to navigate and trying
• 28:23
  Speaker 3: to still find a way to give ourselves that sacred
• 28:26
  Speaker 3: power of focusing on the positive. I wonder if you
• 28:29
  Speaker 3: have any wisdom for folks that are saying, you know,
• 28:31
  Speaker 3: doctor Hanson, I just feel overwhelmed right now.
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: There's so much scary.
• 28:34
  Speaker 3: I'm worried that that's going to change who I am.
• 28:37
  Speaker 3: And I'm going to keep recycling on the scary stuff,
• 28:40
  Speaker 3: and that may start to make me a negative person.
• 28:43
  Speaker 3: It may make me toxic. I may become a person
• 28:46
  Speaker 3: biased toward pain. How do we break free of that
• 28:49
  Speaker 3: at a time when things really are.
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: Still scary so much? In that question there is it's loaded. First,
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: I would like to make a distinction, sure, between being
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: positive enjoying every sandwich, smell the roses, all that's wonderful,
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: and it's not really what I'm talking about. What I'm
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: really talking about is the essence of self reliance based
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: on recognizing that the world is challenging. Yes, and we've
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: got to brain this's negatively biased. So I'll tell you
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: four questions that I come back to again and again
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: as a clinician, that people can also use themselves. First
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: question is what's the challenge, and especially what's the experience
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: of the challenge. So let's say there was an election
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: that was razor thin close, hypothetically perffectually, you know, fifty
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: two fifty point two, fifty point two, and that number
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: will probably decline as all the votes from California and
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: United States command fifty point two percent of the American
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: people elected reelected Donald Trump. Some are celebrating that fact,
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: some are not celebrating that fact. A person can accept
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: the results of an election while being deeply concerned about
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: its consequences. So these things are real. What's the challenge,
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: including as you experienced the challenge? First question. Second question
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: is the key question. What if it were more present
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: inside you, in your heart, in your mind, in your consciousness.
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: What if it were more present inside you as a
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: trait would really help you. Wow, that's the strength. What
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: are we trying to grow? And then the third question
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: is how can you experience that which you want to grow?
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: Because that's the first of the two necessary steps for
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: any lasting healing, growing or awakening, which involve and underlying
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: physical change in your brain. How can you experience that
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: particular strength. Well, first of all, you're already probably experiencing
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: it some of the time. And second, you can probably
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: do deliberate things to experience fill in the blank. Greater calm,
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: greater sense of self compassion, greater commitment to social justice
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: and protection and being an ally for others, greater clarity
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: that you're just not going to watch so much news. Yeah,
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: you know, better social skills to be able to say no,
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: Uncle Bob, I don't want to talk about politics and
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: Thanksgiving because you know where that's going to go gets
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: a tunnel with no cheese. Okay, So you experienced it.
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: And then fourth step, how can I help that experience
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: really sink in by keeping the neurons firing together for
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: a breath or longer, feeling it in your body, and
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: doing other things that help that pattern of activation become
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: consolidated in your own brain, hardwired increasingly into you. So
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: what's the challenge, what resource, what inner strength would really help?
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: And then how can you experience it and how can
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: you internalize it? So that's the frame for me much
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: I work backwards from the standpoint of helping people heal
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: from their childhoods and manage their current lives and have
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: a better future. What are we trying to grow inside?
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: You know, I have a long time rock climber in
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: a wilderness person. What's in your backpack? You know that.
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: What's in your wallet? Blah blah? What's in your backpack?
• 32:20
  Speaker 4: You know?
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: What do you want to take with you down the
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: long road of life? So okay, that's kind of a frame.
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: So what given the current moment, including politically, would be
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: really really useful to have more of? And here at
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: UNLV I'm giving a series of talks and people can
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: find the essence of it online already. Which are basically
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: four strengths for broad principles that are found in science,
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: They're found in history, they're found in clinical practice. For
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: what's in our own power that we can do when
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: the bottom falls out? Yes, of one kind or another.
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: I live in California wildfires. I've had friends who've had
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: their homes in Colorado as well as in California burned
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: to the ground. What do you do when that bottom
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: falls out? What do you do when you get a
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: diagnosis of a serious maybe a terminal illness? Sure bottom
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: falls out? What do you do when you go to
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: college and suddenly you find out that three professors have
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: been shot or other shooters in your city. Whoa wolence?
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: You know? And what do you do when let's say
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: there's an election in which, despite everything, and inclusive of everything,
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: roughly two thirds of your fellow adult citizens are either
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: really happy with the person who got elected or they
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: don't care enough I vote for that person's opponent. Oh, okay,
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: what do we do now? Right? And so what are
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: the four strikes? I'll just name them and then I'll
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: shut up. Because you're an awesome inner. You are. I've
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: been interviewed by a lot of people. That's an opportunity
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: for you to take in the good bye way. Think briefly.
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: I'll just hit the headlines first. Strength, Take heart, Tune
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: into the heart. The heart is the source of courage.
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: The root of the word for courage comes from heart.
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: Get in touch with love flowing in and love flowing out.
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: It feeds us as it flows through us. Have compassion
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: for yourself, find heart, and especially get on your own side.
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: Be kind to yourself, as again a clinician of it.
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: You know this is true yourself. Half the clients who
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: would come in to see me. I didn't realize why
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: what I was doing wasn't working until I got it. Oh,
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: I'm pumping them full of metaphorical gas. Although I have
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: a certain amount of hot air. I'm pumping them up
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: with let's say gas. But there's no pilot light. Ah,
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: we got to ignite the pilot light. They're loyal to others,
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: they care about others. They come through for others, they
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: don't come through for themselves. They're indifferent to their own pain.
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: Whoa not because they're bad or dumb, often because for
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: them they were trained to put others first endlessly, or
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: trained that it's a sin, or because of trauma and
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: other reasons. They felt like ashamed of themselves where they
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: didn't deserve to be loyal to And that's really important
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: to correct. So that's under the heading of take hart
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: yes second, see clearly sort out what is performative bs
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: to grab your attention and what is a real threat
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: come in your way. On the one hand, I remember
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: reading this fellow who grew up in Haiti during the
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: time of de Vallier and Pop and baby Doc these terrible, terrible,
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: terrible all times. Yeah, he escaped Haiti just ahead of
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: the death squads. As a very young man, ended up
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: in Canada, washed dishes, started writing, very talented, eventually got
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: in the highest highest literary honor in France for writing
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: in French, you know, and the first one ever given
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: to someone who was not born in France. So quite
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: a person. And he said, you know, when you're living
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: in a dictatorship or you're on the slippery slope in
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: that direction, they want to get into your head. They
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: want you to talk about them all the time. They
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: want you to think about them all the time. They
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: don't care if you like them. They just want to
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: get in your head. They want to occupy you and
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: invade your mind. And remain to use that phrase again.
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: And so it's really important to guard your attention in
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: terms of seeing clearly, you know, what is just performative bs,
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: but also see the real threats heading your way or
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: heading toward those you care about. Is Maya Angelou put it.
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: When people show you who they are, believe them the
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: first time. And it's just simply a fact. If you
• 36:51
  Speaker 1: look at the playbook throughout history of the movement into tyranny.
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: I was recently just reading about the rise of Hitler
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: and the Steps nineteen two, nineteen thirty three, nineteen thirty four,
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: The Early Days whoa Okay, other similar playbooks. Great book
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: Timothy Snyder on Tyranny and Applebama, a great writer. It's
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: really clear that America is already at least a few
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: steps down that slippery slope toward minimally what's called authoritarian
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: democracy pseudo democracy, if not all the way to a
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: dictatorship or oligarchy by another name. That's just not alarmism,
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: that's sure. Sure, there's a way to measure this. Yeah,
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: we don't know exactly what they look like, we don't
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: know how often they'll come, but storms are coming. So
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: see clearly that's the second strength to grow. And then
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: the third strength is to do what you can, take
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: the action that you can. I think about this wonderful
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: teaching from Nikosi Johnson. This little boy born with HIV
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: in South Africa died at twelve, and he became an
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: advocate for people with HIV AID, especially children, and he said,
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: do all that you can with what you've been given,
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: in the place where you are, in the time that
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: you have. So that's what we do. We do what
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: we can and we do it at the local level.
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: We you know, batten down our own hatches, maybe update
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: our passport or if we have options, you know, start
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: you know, developing more of a nest egg. You know,
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: get our paperwork up to date, whatever it is. Empower
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: yourself at our personal level. Yeah, take care of your health.
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: Realize that you know, you get back what you put
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: in to what you eat, how you exercise, and where
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: you rest your mind, including the meditations or prayers that
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: you do. For sure that and also I have a
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: be in my bonnet about facing the fact that while
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: enormous progress has been made in human history, for the
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: average person today average average eight billion, this is the safest,
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: most peaceful, healthiest time ever to be alive. That's a fact.
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: It does not deny that horribly ten thousand children a
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: day die of hunger related causes. Right, doesn't change those facts.
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: But still there's been a lot of progress. So it's
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: important to appreciate progress and take heart from the progress
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: and learn from the progress both. Clearly, it is not
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: generally addressed the underlying structural systemic sources of injustice and
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: em miseration that profit the few at the cost of
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: the many. That's just a plain fact. Sure, what are
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: we going to do? How do we get at that
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: deeper route? And I have two opinions? What a surprise.
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: It's not.
• 39:48
  Speaker 3: It's not easy. It's not it's not always simple. There's
• 39:51
  Speaker 3: complexity to this.
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: Learning from what people have said who are really expert
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: it this, we need to do two things. First, at
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: a cultural level and an individual consciousness level. We need
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: to what's called rehumanize, or as the chair of the
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: board of the Global Compassion Coalition Mempela Rampelli, an historic
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: figure from South Africa anti apartheid, has said, we need
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: to be indigenous again. We need to reclaim the ancestral
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: wisdom that our ancestors had for two hundred and ninety
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: thousand years of our three hundred thousand years so far
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: tenure on this planet. As this species who lived in
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: small bands on the basis of what's called caring and sharing,
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: compassion and justice, and that primal way of doing politics
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: in a group of forty or so people who lived
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: most of their life together has been blown up over
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: the last ten thousand years, which is why most of
• 40:55
  Speaker 1: us in the last ten thousand years have lived kind
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: of in a game of thrones sort of setting. And
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: so we need to come back to the recognition that
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: we are all truly in this together. We need to
• 41:06
  Speaker 1: rehumanize and we need to find ways to address the
• 41:09
  Speaker 1: fact that the disease of our age is someone I
• 41:14
  Speaker 1: believe Elie Ysel, survivor of the Holocaust. Yes, great activist
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: and so on. Wise being said, the opposite of love
• 41:25
  Speaker 1: is not hate, it's indifference. We just look at the
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: American electorate, something like sixty seven million people are not
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: registered to vote. They just don't care. Think of the
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: people who just set out the election. They don't care.
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: You know, we have a real issue with caring. And
• 41:44
  Speaker 1: then we have also pernicious forces that are trying to
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: drive wedges in between people to disrupt the vital need
• 41:52
  Speaker 1: to widen the circle of us and we all live together.
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: It's just forty or so right. We didn't have to
• 41:57
  Speaker 1: work hard to have a very strong sense of us.
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: How do we have a strong sense of us now?
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: When you walk past a thousand strangers every day? Probably,
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: how do you expand that circle of us? So we
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: have our work cut out. But that's what rehumanizing is about.
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: And then the other thing is I just observe so
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: many people and nonprofits not coming together to form a
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: coalition that will get something actual done. I see businesses
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: competing at the local level and yet cooperating at the
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: political level. I see very many pro social nonprofits. I
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: live in this world. You know a lot of do
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: gootters wonderful at the individual level, and they almost never
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: cooperate at the political policy level at a scale that's
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: big enough to make any darn bit of difference. So
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: we need to really form more coalitions. That's where we
• 42:51
  Speaker 1: have opportunity, in the space between government action and individual action. Okay,
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: so that's do what you can. And then last headline
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: the strength yes, find peace amidst the storms. Realize that
• 43:05
  Speaker 1: most people throughout history have lived under the thumb or
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: the boot of a tyrant. They found their ways. I'm
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: not minimizing sugarcoating it. I'm just saying if they found
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: their ways in Babylonia or in Middle Ages, or you know,
• 43:22
  Speaker 1: being a peasant in China years ago, they found their
• 43:25
  Speaker 1: own ways, and gosh, we can find our ways today
• 43:29
  Speaker 1: and there are other ways to find peace. Exhale slowly,
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: that's going to help you be more peaceful. Raise your
• 43:35
  Speaker 1: gaze to the horizon neurologically, that will help you, you know,
• 43:39
  Speaker 1: get a bigger picture. Also, take comfort and refuge and
• 43:43
  Speaker 1: what endures. All the good work that you've done, Jim,
• 43:46
  Speaker 1: cannot be touched by the recent election. For example. You
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: know the sky that is blue, the taste of a
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: banana with chocolate and peanut butter. Now, that's the trifecta.
• 43:58
  Speaker 3: That's all the peace, that is it, That's the holy trinity?
• 44:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, right there, you know. And also you're own in
• 44:07
  Speaker 1: a goodness right, it cannot be taken from you that
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: you have a fundamentally good heart, even if there's some lapses,
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: you have a fundamentally good heart. And that is something
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: you can take refuge in and deep down inside all
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: of us if you just look, I've come off right
• 44:24
  Speaker 1: now a three week meditation retreats are particularly aware of it.
• 44:28
  Speaker 1: Now several weeks later, but still, if you let your
• 44:32
  Speaker 1: mind quiet a little bit, you will observe a lot
• 44:36
  Speaker 1: of You will see things changing, right, thoughts, calm, feelings
• 44:39
  Speaker 1: come sound side, so forth changing. What doesn't change? What's
• 44:44
  Speaker 1: deeper than changing, right, there's a stillness deeper than all
• 44:48
  Speaker 1: of us, and you look more closely. That stillness is benevolent.
• 44:52
  Speaker 1: It has a caring, a kindness in it. It's it's
• 44:56
  Speaker 1: not malevolent, it's not mean. It looks to help, it
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: looks to build, not destroy. That's innate all of us.
• 45:05
  Speaker 1: And we can find peace by resting in that deep refuge.
• 45:10
  Speaker 1: So those are four strikes. Lot are things we can do.
• 45:12
  Speaker 1: No one can stop us from right taking heart, seeing clearly,
• 45:16
  Speaker 1: doing what you can and finding peace.
• 45:20
  Speaker 3: Wow, you know, and there's so many takeaways from those
• 45:23
  Speaker 3: many points. I mean, one of them I think is
• 45:25
  Speaker 3: very true, and it's something that we can get lost
• 45:27
  Speaker 3: in life is local. Yes, there are big things happening
• 45:31
  Speaker 3: all over the world, but for a lot of us,
• 45:34
  Speaker 3: when we're treating somebody who's going through their fears and
• 45:36
  Speaker 3: seeing things on here, and they'll say, oh, my goodness,
• 45:39
  Speaker 3: I hear that this new Attorney General is a bad person,
• 45:41
  Speaker 3: and I think they're taking money from some bad person
• 45:44
  Speaker 3: and doing bad things, and they're going to get a
• 45:46
  Speaker 3: house in the Bahamas. And then you might want to
• 45:48
  Speaker 3: bring them back to the now and bring them back
• 45:50
  Speaker 3: to the power of now and where your feet are
• 45:52
  Speaker 3: and ask them, but does that affect what you're going
• 45:54
  Speaker 3: to have for lunch. Well, no, but I am concerned.
• 45:58
  Speaker 3: That's fine too. Both be true as a citizen and
• 46:02
  Speaker 3: as somebody who wants fairness and justice in your world.
• 46:05
  Speaker 3: I'm glad you're alarmed. I'm glad you're concerned. I'm glad
• 46:08
  Speaker 3: you're engaged. But we also need to differentiate that reality from.
• 46:12
  Speaker 1: Your reality, your truth.
• 46:14
  Speaker 3: Your life is local. It's here with me right now.
• 46:18
  Speaker 3: We're on a beautiful campus on a beautiful day. We're
• 46:20
  Speaker 3: going to have a great evening. It's Las Vegas, it's November.
• 46:23
  Speaker 3: This is the best time to be here, and almost
• 46:25
  Speaker 3: every other times terrible. This is where we're in our reality,
• 46:29
  Speaker 3: and we've got to be where our feet are. And
• 46:31
  Speaker 3: I'm hearing you kind of personalize that you're giving people
• 46:34
  Speaker 3: back their power with those four points, saying this can
• 46:37
  Speaker 3: be something under your control, even in a world out
• 46:41
  Speaker 3: of control. And one of those last things that you
• 46:43
  Speaker 3: had said I thought was so profound, is this idea
• 46:46
  Speaker 3: that you know, we ancestrally worked as units. We had
• 46:50
  Speaker 3: small communities. There were only so many of us. And
• 46:54
  Speaker 3: I remember in that really wonderful book Sapiens, they talked
• 46:58
  Speaker 3: about how large true of primates can even really get before.
• 47:02
  Speaker 3: They just don't do that anymore. They split off and
• 47:05
  Speaker 3: create other troops, and it kind of manifests this signal
• 47:08
  Speaker 3: of there's only so many names you'll memorize, so many
• 47:11
  Speaker 3: relationships you can actively have. But I'm noticing we're seeing,
• 47:15
  Speaker 3: especially in the Internet age, this creation of small community.
• 47:19
  Speaker 3: We're creating these smaller bodies of like minded pro mental
• 47:24
  Speaker 3: health pro support kind bodies of humans. And when I
• 47:28
  Speaker 3: think about that, and I think about that as a
• 47:30
  Speaker 3: manifestation of control and what we can empower ourselves with.
• 47:34
  Speaker 3: I think about what you've done. I think about your
• 47:36
  Speaker 3: show and the way you have created with your son,
• 47:40
  Speaker 3: an online community of people that are thinking clearly, are
• 47:44
  Speaker 3: encouraging each other, are rooting for each other, and are
• 47:48
  Speaker 3: manifesting a sense of empowerment in the world. And especially
• 47:52
  Speaker 3: during crazy times and more than ever, when things feel
• 47:55
  Speaker 3: out of control, we need those voices we need. And
• 47:58
  Speaker 3: it's so interesting because you know, you and I are
• 48:00
  Speaker 3: obviously podcasters and mental health professionals, but I have to
• 48:03
  Speaker 3: tell you, I'm envious of you, and I want to
• 48:05
  Speaker 3: tell you why Rick two things so You're being well podcast.
• 48:09
  Speaker 3: It's one of the most listened to shows in the
• 48:11
  Speaker 3: mental health genre. I don't envy you that. I envy
• 48:15
  Speaker 3: that you've gotten your son to listen to you every
• 48:17
  Speaker 3: single week and hang out with you and take advice.
• 48:20
  Speaker 3: And I have a teenage son, and I think, all right, Rick, teach.
• 48:23
  Speaker 1: Me your tricks?
• 48:26
  Speaker 3: Did you get? How did you get? This is the
• 48:29
  Speaker 3: whole podcast a sham? Is it just a front to
• 48:31
  Speaker 3: hang out with your son?
• 48:33
  Speaker 1: To be frank, I'm not sure which of the several
• 48:37
  Speaker 1: tied for first place reasons, Yeah, that one is, but
• 48:41
  Speaker 1: it's certainly in that group. Yeah. Yeah, Well, one of
• 48:45
  Speaker 1: the smartest things I did as a parent is I
• 48:48
  Speaker 1: learned how to play the game Magic with our Magic
• 48:52
  Speaker 1: the card game the Gathering. Yeah, yeah, exactly right. Really
• 48:55
  Speaker 1: a clever, interesting game. And I've played it with a
• 48:58
  Speaker 1: lot of my therapy clients too kids and taught them
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: how to play and things like that. So that was
• 49:03
  Speaker 1: a pretty good move. Mmm. Well, that's thank you. That's
• 49:06
  Speaker 1: quite an observation.
• 49:07
  Speaker 3: Well, I'm curious. So your your show being well, like
• 49:10
  Speaker 3: I had mentioned earlier, it's one of the most popular
• 49:12
  Speaker 3: shows in the genre. It is dynamic, it is weekly,
• 49:16
  Speaker 3: and it's very practical. You cover all sorts of things.
• 49:20
  Speaker 3: It's so eclectic, you know. I think I can always
• 49:22
  Speaker 3: tell whenever you must be traveling or things are happening,
• 49:24
  Speaker 3: because Forrest is interviewing all sorts of folks, and then
• 49:27
  Speaker 3: otherwise y'all are taking questions and giving feedback, sometimes taking
• 49:31
  Speaker 3: on big topics. I wonder if you could share with
• 49:34
  Speaker 3: us the story of when you decided to create this show,
• 49:37
  Speaker 3: what the blueprint was, and how to create a show
• 49:41
  Speaker 3: with your son, What a neat project to get to do,
• 49:44
  Speaker 3: what's the genesis, what's the backstory of the Being Well podcast?
• 49:47
  Speaker 1: Well, I'm pausing to reflect on what could be of
• 49:50
  Speaker 1: general interest to people. As best I can recall. Forrest
• 49:56
  Speaker 1: and I wrote the book Resilient, which really gets at
• 50:00
  Speaker 1: what I think of as twelve fundamental core strengths, inner
• 50:03
  Speaker 1: strengths that we can develop quick sidebar for all the
• 50:09
  Speaker 1: discussion of nature versus nurture and all the rest of that. Roughly,
• 50:15
  Speaker 1: on average, two thirds of the variance in any significant
• 50:20
  Speaker 1: psychological characteristic like resilience or self worth or happiness is acquired,
• 50:27
  Speaker 1: rather than in eight only about one third is based
• 50:30
  Speaker 1: on what are heritable factors. On average, now, for some people,
• 50:34
  Speaker 1: heritable factors make a huge difference, and for other people,
• 50:37
  Speaker 1: environmental or psychological factors make a huge difference. But the
• 50:41
  Speaker 1: bottom line point is that on average, about two thirds
• 50:44
  Speaker 1: of who we are becoming over the lifespan is up
• 50:47
  Speaker 1: for grabs based on the nature of our society and
• 50:51
  Speaker 1: forces like poverty or bias or good fortune, as well
• 50:55
  Speaker 1: as what we do inside ourselves. So it's kind of
• 50:58
  Speaker 1: wild to appreciate that, you know, when you think about, Wow,
• 51:02
  Speaker 1: two thirds roughly of who I am, and certainly who
• 51:05
  Speaker 1: I am becoming is up for grabs. WHOA Do I
• 51:09
  Speaker 1: want to be just passive and inert and spun down
• 51:12
  Speaker 1: the river of life by twirling in a motor boat
• 51:15
  Speaker 1: with no power on? Or do I want to put
• 51:17
  Speaker 1: my arm on my hand on the tiller? Yeah, direct
• 51:22
  Speaker 1: myself as best I can given the cliffs and the
• 51:25
  Speaker 1: shoals and the alligators. Yes, all right, So that was
• 51:27
  Speaker 1: the book. Resilient is about twelve of those fundamental strengths,
• 51:31
  Speaker 1: like compassion. Learning is a fundamental strength. Learning is a
• 51:35
  Speaker 1: meta strength, that's the strength that grows the other strengths
• 51:38
  Speaker 1: and all the rest of them. So we started doing that,
• 51:40
  Speaker 1: and then I said, well, why don't we do a
• 51:42
  Speaker 1: kind of a podcasting thing. I guess I'd heard about podcasts,
• 51:46
  Speaker 1: so we'll go through the book. He and I did.
• 51:49
  Speaker 1: We went through the twelve chapters twelve months and basically
• 51:52
  Speaker 1: each one of them is broken into four separate things.
• 51:55
  Speaker 1: So that not coincidentally gave us forty eight fifty two
• 51:58
  Speaker 1: weeks in the year. Sure did that for the first year.
• 52:01
  Speaker 1: I already had some audience, which helped. And I think
• 52:05
  Speaker 1: the combination of the two of us is good, and
• 52:08
  Speaker 1: Forrest is phenomenal. He's just really good as sharp yep,
• 52:12
  Speaker 1: and really good at the business side as well and
• 52:14
  Speaker 1: the social media aspects. And we caught a wave. A
• 52:18
  Speaker 1: fair amount of life is just you know, you can
• 52:20
  Speaker 1: learn how to surf and be good at it, you
• 52:22
  Speaker 1: still need.
• 52:23
  Speaker 4: To wave and you need both yeah, right time, and
• 52:27
  Speaker 4: you know, and then it just kind of went from
• 52:29
  Speaker 4: there and it is as we you and I were
• 52:32
  Speaker 4: just talking about this.
• 52:35
  Speaker 1: Part of me. I'm a you know, I'm a kind
• 52:38
  Speaker 1: of scruffy, revolutionary kind of person. I'm an aging hippie.
• 52:44
  Speaker 1: I am delighted by I think it was a three
• 52:47
  Speaker 1: d's in the time in which we lived, this era
• 52:51
  Speaker 1: of digitalized distributed and democratized access to tools, including psychological tools.
• 52:59
  Speaker 1: I remember being a I think pretty young when the
• 53:03
  Speaker 1: Whole Earth Catalog came out if you vaguely recall that
• 53:06
  Speaker 1: in later additions access to tools. So I deeply believe
• 53:11
  Speaker 1: in the opportunity for people around the world, unless they're
• 53:15
  Speaker 1: behind some dictatorial wall that does not give them access
• 53:19
  Speaker 1: to this, but around the world, who can late at night,
• 53:24
  Speaker 1: I imagine, frankly, a mom in Kuwait who is had
• 53:29
  Speaker 1: an argument with her husband. He goes to bed. She's like,
• 53:35
  Speaker 1: and she can go online, y find help, have something
• 53:38
  Speaker 1: to do that will help her with whatever all that was.
• 53:42
  Speaker 1: And I just imagine that, or imagine all kinds of
• 53:45
  Speaker 1: other people listening to you and getting help in all
• 53:48
  Speaker 1: kinds of ways. So I just feel enormously privileged and
• 53:51
  Speaker 1: happy to be able to just you know, offer what
• 53:55
  Speaker 1: we can in the world. So much of what I
• 53:57
  Speaker 1: think people suffer is thwarted tribution. It's withheld love, block love.
• 54:04
  Speaker 1: And we do that to adolescents a lot. We do
• 54:07
  Speaker 1: that to college students a lot. We don't really give
• 54:09
  Speaker 1: them opportunities to contribute. We sequester them in these kind
• 54:12
  Speaker 1: of strange reservations you know, malls and schools, and then
• 54:16
  Speaker 1: we wonder why they're so unhappy and they don't believe
• 54:20
  Speaker 1: us when we say no, no, no, you need to
• 54:22
  Speaker 1: learn this and that and give up sex, drugs and
• 54:25
  Speaker 1: rock and roll so you can be like me in
• 54:27
  Speaker 1: ten years. Right, Yeah, I like that pops hops. Yeah.
• 54:32
  Speaker 1: So I just think that we're blessed, you and I
• 54:36
  Speaker 1: and others who do this kind of thing, including your
• 54:38
  Speaker 1: own three other partners, to be able to make our
• 54:41
  Speaker 1: contributions and to know that in this life, at the
• 54:45
  Speaker 1: end of it all, we gave what we could.
• 54:49
  Speaker 3: Yes, So as we get to the end of our
• 54:51
  Speaker 3: time together, I want to take a beat to reflect
• 54:55
  Speaker 3: on anything that you are working on. You know, you
• 54:58
  Speaker 3: seem to be very busy with publishing and speaking and
• 55:02
  Speaker 3: podcasting and providing all this education and access, and I
• 55:08
  Speaker 3: sense no slowing down. I sense that the world, as
• 55:10
  Speaker 3: it's changing and becoming more interesting to deal with, you're
• 55:14
  Speaker 3: stepping up, not stepping back. And I'm curious if you
• 55:17
  Speaker 3: can kind of share with us some of the things
• 55:19
  Speaker 3: you're passionate about, and if there are things that you
• 55:22
  Speaker 3: want the audience to hear about that they can say,
• 55:24
  Speaker 3: you know what I'm fired up. I'm excited about what
• 55:26
  Speaker 3: this person's talking about. I want to be a part
• 55:28
  Speaker 3: of change in my life. I want to be part
• 55:30
  Speaker 3: of positive change in the world. I want to make
• 55:32
  Speaker 3: sure we take a beat to reflect and offer them. Hey,
• 55:35
  Speaker 3: if you're interested in what I'm talking about, if you
• 55:37
  Speaker 3: want to read more, if you want to get engaged,
• 55:39
  Speaker 3: here are some places that you can start looking. Here's
• 55:41
  Speaker 3: some projects that I'm working on. Tell us what you've
• 55:43
  Speaker 3: been up to and where folks can find more of it.
• 55:45
  Speaker 1: That's very kind. And again, you're supremely skillful. It's really funny.
• 55:52
  Speaker 1: So here I am reverse role. I'm watching someone with
• 55:56
  Speaker 1: a lot of.
• 55:56
  Speaker 3: Game game recognize game as the go.
• 56:01
  Speaker 1: Go rebels right. Well, first, at a personal level, there
• 56:07
  Speaker 1: is a developmental trajectory in life and what is developmentally appropriate.
• 56:12
  Speaker 1: And I am now in my very early seventies, and
• 56:17
  Speaker 1: I'm super healthy. Mine's very alive. My parents lived to
• 56:21
  Speaker 1: quite an old age, so I'm fortunate genetically in that way,
• 56:25
  Speaker 1: while knowing that the lights could go out in any moment,
• 56:28
  Speaker 1: and to live with that and to live in contentment
• 56:33
  Speaker 1: right and peacefulness and gratitude for what an amazing ride
• 56:37
  Speaker 1: it's already been that said. I am really dialing back.
• 56:42
  Speaker 1: I'm doing less and less work related things to make
• 56:45
  Speaker 1: more room for deep practice, wilderness, family and friends, fooling around.
• 56:51
  Speaker 1: All that's said, All that said, the older I get,
• 56:59
  Speaker 1: the calmer I get. I've been meditating since nineteen seventy four,
• 57:02
  Speaker 1: off and on, last thirty plus years. Very on. The
• 57:07
  Speaker 1: older I get, the camera I get, and the matter
• 57:10
  Speaker 1: I get at like I was getting at earlier, that
• 57:18
  Speaker 1: deeper level of injustice, exploitation, bias, casual indifference to the
• 57:27
  Speaker 1: suffering of others, the routine what's called an economics externalizing
• 57:32
  Speaker 1: of costs, dumping your garbage out the window that others
• 57:38
  Speaker 1: have to pick up, smokestacks spewing carbon into the atmosphere,
• 57:44
  Speaker 1: and all kinds of other externalizing of costs on others.
• 57:48
  Speaker 1: I'm mad about it now. I'm a person who practices
• 57:51
  Speaker 1: with anger. I try to use anger use me so
• 57:56
  Speaker 1: based on that, like of a lot of other people who,
• 58:00
  Speaker 1: in part because we have made the progress we've made,
• 58:04
  Speaker 1: we now are no longer running for our lives day
• 58:06
  Speaker 1: to day, most of us, we can look around and
• 58:10
  Speaker 1: increasingly be clear. Wait a second, Wait a second, ten
• 58:14
  Speaker 1: thousand years of Game of Thrones. Now we're living in
• 58:18
  Speaker 1: a more upholstered and.
• 58:22
  Speaker 3: Yeah, indoor plumbing is pretty great. Yeah, we've got some
• 58:25
  Speaker 3: cool things. Yeah, that's exactly right.
• 58:27
  Speaker 1: So that's why I founded the Global Compassion Coalition, which
• 58:31
  Speaker 1: other people can check out and invite them to check out.
• 58:34
  Speaker 1: The fundamental idea is that we need to re establish
• 58:40
  Speaker 1: what worked for us as a species, as you said,
• 58:44
  Speaker 1: at the local level, and then everything was local, basically
• 58:48
  Speaker 1: small bands essentially that's local, even as they you know,
• 58:52
  Speaker 1: wandered hunting, hunting and gathering. How do we re establish
• 58:57
  Speaker 1: that sense of common good, common way, welfare, common truth,
• 59:03
  Speaker 1: and common justice. How do we re establish that at
• 59:05
  Speaker 1: the scale of eight billion people, so that no more
• 59:09
  Speaker 1: children dive starvation every day, so that all girls have
• 59:12
  Speaker 1: access to a decent education, so that nuclear weapons are
• 59:16
  Speaker 1: never ever used, and so that we stop dumping something
• 59:21
  Speaker 1: on the order of one hundred million tons a day
• 59:25
  Speaker 1: of greenhouse gases into this guy. Wow, you know, people
• 59:28
  Speaker 1: might want to add a couple other items to that list,
• 59:30
  Speaker 1: but that's a pretty darn good starter list. It's a
• 59:32
  Speaker 1: good list. Yeah, how do we actually have a world
• 59:35
  Speaker 1: by the end of the century right by twenty one hundred.
• 59:38
  Speaker 1: It took us ten thousand years to get here, It's
• 59:40
  Speaker 1: going to take us a few centuries to get out
• 59:41
  Speaker 1: of here. But if we keep the end in view
• 59:46
  Speaker 1: and actually ask ourselves what needs to happen in the
• 59:49
  Speaker 1: world so that no more children die of hunger? What
• 59:51
  Speaker 1: needs to happen, so that all girls are educated. What
• 59:54
  Speaker 1: needs to happen so that at least half the people
• 59:57
  Speaker 1: in the world rather than the current six percent, live
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 1: in a high functioning democracy. What do we need to do?
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 1: And the only way to accomplish that is to come
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 1: together in coalitions at different scales to claim the power
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 1: we actually have to make things happen. So that's what
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 1: the Global Compassion Coalition is all about. So if people
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 1: want to check that out, and it's a platform for
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 1: whatever you whoever you are that is at bottom, you know,
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 1: motivated by care and concern for others and yourself right
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 1: not just yourself. You know, there's a great platform, great opportunity,
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 1: tons of resources, well intended, world class experts on compassion
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 1: science are involved there, and I really encourage people to
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 1: find out more and hop on board. And you can
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 1: just google Global Compassion coalition and they'll take you to
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 1: our website. Wonderful.
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 3: This has been such a great opportunity. I really appreciate
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 3: you taking the time. I know you are so busy,
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 3: You've got so many folks waiting on you, and you're
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 3: just taking the time to say, let's just sit down
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 3: and talk. And I just feel like I am so
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 3: overjoyed to get that one on one opportunity. You have
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 3: taught us so much. And I got to tell you,
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 3: doctor Hanson, at a time in the world where so
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 3: many folks have never been more confused and never felt
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 3: more disempowered, I think you've spent the last hour teaching us.
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 3: Here's how you, on an individual level can get some
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 3: amount of control and restoration and most importantly peace. And
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 3: also here's how you, as a human and a member
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 3: of our community can take action. Here's how you can
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 3: get motivated. Like you said a second ago, I'm not
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 3: going to let anger use me, but I will use
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 3: anger to motivate me to be a force for good
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 3: in the world. And there's plenty of good work to do.
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 3: And you know what, you bring up such a good point,
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 3: because sometimes I think we get so lost in the
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 3: things outside.
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 1: Of our control.
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 3: We forget about all the many things inside of our control.
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 3: How profound it would be to assist one person in
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 3: your community that you would be the biggest source of
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 3: change in their life. And you could assist that, or
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 3: get involved in a local project, or support a local
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 3: Girl Scout troop, or or a local group at a
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 3: healthcare hospital, places that need your support. Now, at the
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 3: local level, that could be a force for good. And
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 3: that is the most meaningful thing sometimes that we can do.
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 3: And I love that you've given us back that sense
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 3: of dignity and power at a time when I think
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 3: folks really miss those feelings and they need it the most.
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 1: I wonder if I could build on what you just
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 1: said there, Jim, that's so good. I remember reading a
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 1: book a million years ago, I think was called on Lying.
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 1: It was a book about lying, which is really interesting. Yeah,
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 1: and they made the author made a brilliant point that
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 1: the lie effects both the recipient of the lie and
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 1: the liar themselves.
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 3: Wow.
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 1: Right, and that's really interesting to contemplate. On flip it
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 1: around today, think about the petitions we sign, the dollars
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 1: we send, the ballots we submit, we do these things,
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 1: you know, the stands. We take the ways in which,
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 1: for example, when Uncle Bob let's say, goes off on
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 1: Thanksgiving ranting about this or that, no relationship to reality
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 1: at all, a fact free rand, we don't NodD along,
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 1: but instead we just kind of sit quietly because it's
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 1: Thanksgiving and uncle Bob took us fishing, and he's a
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 1: really good guy. I like Uncle Bob. Yeah, even though
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 1: even though X and Y sure, but we don't give
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 1: him agreement. We sit in dignity nice, I remember, and
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 1: I hope, and I really offer this with respect. Reading someone,
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 1: it might have been in Scott mama Day, great Native
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 1: American writer who said something like, you know, the Native
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 1: Americans one of their greatest weapons was silence. Oh wow,
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 1: and therapy. Offering silence is a very important that's very interesting.
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 1: But I mean now here in kind of a moral
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 1: withholding us non agreement, withholding a send, maybe that's all
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 1: we can do. So whatever it is, petitions votes. With
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 1: holding agreement, we're standing in solidarity, moving closer to the
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 1: person who somehow other people are dumping on. Okay, we
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 1: may not be able to affect the outcome outside ourselves.
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 1: That petition, that dollar, that vote, that stand affects us.
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 1: I like that we feel better for it. We know
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 1: we did our bid and in ways that I think
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 1: are often mysterious. It builds merit in our own lives
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 1: and in ripples going out into the world keeps helping
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 1: to make the world a better place.
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 3: Doctor Rick Hanson, thank you so much for joining us
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 3: on pod therapy. It's been an honor. I'm so excited
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 3: to put into practice what you're teaching us today.
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 1: Folks.
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 3: If you'd like to hear more of doctor Rick Hanson,
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 3: you can check out the Being Well Podcast and just
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 3: google the man's name and you will find all of
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 3: his works, seven great books, so much wonderful contribution, which,
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 3: as he just admitted, he did selfishly.
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 1: He did it because it makes him feel good, because
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 1: that was.
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 3: Cut this man's micry N try Oh. Doctor Rickanson, thank
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 3: you so much for joining me.
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 1: Today's better. He take care of so