Latest / The Wholehearted Enneagram Podcast / Supporting Community through Brokenhearted Moments | Jane Butler & Christy Knutson

Transcript

Supporting Community through Brokenhearted Moments | Jane Butler & Christy Knutson · The Wholehearted Enneagram Podcast

• 0:01
  SPEAKER_01: Well, here we are right on the precipice of the holiday season, and yet all we have to do is hop on social media for five seconds when we're reminded of the pain and suffering around the globe, and oftentimes just right down the street.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_01: So we are gonna spend ample time this advent season preparing for celebration.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, of course, Enneagram 7 here, and taking in the joys and the goodness that we have available.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_01: I do want to share this special conversation to equip you to care for your community and your own heart if you're facing grief, illness, or loss this holiday season.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_01: Jane Butler and Christy Nutson have traversed many tragedies and joys together over the years, and their experience and expertise has led them to create an incredible resource called NIR.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_01: NIR has everything you need to care well.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_01: It's a seamless, easy-to-use platform created so friends, family, and loved ones can contribute in one place, ensuring that those in need receive the support and care without the stress of managing text messages, spreadsheets, and lists.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's the last thing we need, right?
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_01: If we're going through hardship is to organize all the help that we need.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_01: So if you've organized support or cared for someone in need, or maybe you even have needed someone to care and organize for you, I know you're going to appreciate what NIR offers and the entirety of this conversation.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_01: Also, fair warning.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_01: I mentioned this in last week's episode that Jane and Christy created such a safe place for me, and our conversation felt so authentic, and it was authentic, right?
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_01: It just felt like we were having coffee.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_01: My tears actually flowed freely a few times.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_01: I did ask Nyla to edit some of the ugly cry parts near the end so it wouldn't take over the conversation, but I couldn't cut out all the vulnerability.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_01: Otherwise, you'd miss some of the good stuff that we talked about.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_01: So bear with me and just know that these are true conversations for me.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that we've been through enough together that you can handle my tears.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_01: Jane and Christy are also going to share more about all the different supportive resources throughout the conversation.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_01: They'll be mentioning blog posts and links and different things like that.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_01: So I do highly encourage you to explore their website and also get their newest resource that is created just in time to help you care for others during the holiday season.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_01: Hey there, I'm Amy Wicks, your guide by the side for your whole-hearted journey.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_01: And friend, I get it.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_01: Life can be a whirlwind, juggling family, work, and all the in-betweens.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_01: As a wife, mom to three teenagers, and building a growing business, I felt the overwhelm, the doubts, and the struggles too.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_01: But here's the thing: the Lord took my broken-hearted pieces and turned them into a beautiful story of clarity, peace, and joy.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_01: And now I'm here to help you do the same.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_01: With years of experience as a certified Enneagram coach, spiritual director, and working genius facilitator, I am here to provide you with practical wisdom and inspiration.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_01: Through expert interviews and real life examples, you can uncover your strengths, motivations, and God's unwavering love.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_01: And together, we're gonna explore biblical truths, different personality profiles, and life rhythms that will empower you to break free from anxiety, shame, and frustration.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_01: I have walked the path, my friend, and I know the challenges you face.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_01: But that's why I'm here, by your side, cheering you on as you embrace wholehearted living.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_01: So grab your headphones, invite a friend, and let's embark on this transformative journey together.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to Simply Wholehearted, where we laugh, learn, and flourish as a community.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I'm excited to get to know you both.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_01: And while I know that you are very well versed in the Enneagram and even can call Beth McCord a friend, um, a real life friend, which is so fun.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_01: I I thought it would be fun to ask you ladies today to share or tell us maybe about your personality type without telling us your type.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_01: So we just help everyone get out of that Enneagram box that we so easily put people in or ourselves in, right?
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_01: Totally, totally.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_01: That's so true.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I mean, I feel like people once I say a few things, people are like, oh, I know exactly what she is.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_02: And I even think like what we've built and like our passion in life, like it's just it's in every little moment of interaction.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so my biggest thing is I just need to know I'm loved.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_02: So someone can just say, Jane, I just love you so much or you're so wanted right here.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I am set for life.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_02: So I get that in my love it.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_02: So that's my that is my thing.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_02: So if you can pull from that what you wish, I think everyone would know.
• 5:07
  unknown: Okay.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_02: So good.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_00: I love that description, Jane.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I would just say um I'll I'll pull in my wing too, because I've been feeling it really strongly, I feel like in the last few years.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_00: But um, I am highly driven with a lot of big feelings.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm sure you you know what that is.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_00: But uh, but yes, it's just it's a really interesting combination um because you know, there's there's just both sides of my brain, I feel like are very active in some really beautiful ways, but then oftentimes they can be, it can be a lot, right?
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_00: It can be a lot to um to kind of process and to move through and um a lot of balance there.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_01: So I also think for you, Christy, there is so much pull in the heart.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_01: Like you're just you're heart-centered, you are surrounded by heart types.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's got to be a unique story for a three.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_01: And I think for you both, as you said, Jane, and then you alluded to the work that you all do, I just feel like it has your personality fingerprints all over it.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_02: Yep, yep, totally.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_02: Which is a beautiful thing to be able to do, right?
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_02: To be able to pour into your life's work and feel it not only satisfy you professionally, but personally, um, is like a really beautiful, beautiful thing.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_01: When I'm asking someone about their book or maybe some new music or their ministry organization or even their why behind their coaching, I like to ask what was that broken-hearted moment that led to the whole hearted decision to do these things?
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_01: Because I think the Lord loves to take our brokenhearted pieces, not only heal and mend us, but that often births a ministry or something new, like new life can come from that when we go through the grieving process and the healing process.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_01: So for you ladies, what uniquely has birthed near?
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, it's such an extraordinary uh ministry, really, is what it is.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_01: And I know it wouldn't necessarily call it a ministry, but it's very unique.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_01: And I can't wait to hear a little bit more about the stories that really led to you all together.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_02: Sure.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, there's um, I can go first because I feel like Christine and I have um different stories, but there's a lot of blending into the result that gave birth to Nier.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_02: So, and I can recap mine, um, not to minimize the pain, but to be able to express kind of in its fulsom of what happened.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so uh almost 10 years ago, um, my husband, fiance then was diagnosed with a brain tumor um 25 days before we got married.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_02: And sorry, he was actually end of April, and so his brain surgery was May 1st, and we were planning on getting married May 25th.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_02: And so I feel like that moment as a 23, 24-year-old, our lives were completely halted.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and the reality of our mortality was something we just never thought of.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_02: It was a grandparent issue.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_02: It was uh, it was just not our time, not our, not even in our like perspective at all.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_02: And uh I felt like that was the first time where we had to, we were faced with the reality of okay, life isn't looking like we expected it to.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_02: What do we do?
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_02: All the systems in place.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_02: And there's a lot of really beautiful, sovereign moments that I can share um in other times.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_02: But he ended up having his surgery May 1st, and it was a successful surgery.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_02: And I say that not um frivolously, I say that very graciously and and thankfully that uh he was able to have that tumor removed and no chemo was needed.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and then we were able to get married 25 days later, which was beautiful.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_02: It was a celebration of uh life more than love.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_02: Obviously, weddings are you know a celebration of love, but I joke about the fact that I think I was more excited to see him at the end of the aisle than he was to see me.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_02: Um but um and then so we thought that was our brain teamer story.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_02: We thought, okay, well, maybe that was our tragedy, maybe that was what we um what we can learn from, how we see things differently, like the the fragility of life, like all of these things had like a whole new beauty to them because of what we faced.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_02: And then uh eight years passed and he um had regrowth.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_02: And so uh last August, over a year ago, he then went through his second surgery for another brain tumor.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_02: And I remember calling Christy uh after his diagnosis, not only crying again, but just saying how it was, I just had more to lose this time.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_02: I had not, it wasn't my fiance, it was now my husband, it was the father of our three kids, it was a man that I knew for almost 10 years.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and so I felt like I really was grieving an entirely different new experience, as well as the recognition that, you know, two brain surgeries is not um normal, or um the outcomes are a lot more riskier.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_02: And so we we went through that season and I was um really overwhelmed by not only how many logistics are different during that time, but how much I needed somebody or something to organize all of the support that I had or that I needed to have to get through that period of time with Andrew.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_02: And um and so that was kind of a an introduction to why we felt like Nier was going to fit well, regardless of his outcome, but just an opportunity to say, hey, there's something missing that we can equip people with.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and so he's currently tumor-free.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_02: Uh we still have to be, but it's uh, it's definitely um it was the part of my story that birthed why we chose Nier.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_02: Wow.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_02: It's a it's very it's it's easy to like repeat the story and say like this was our story, but then to really like look back at pictures and sit with it and think like and I see his scar every day and I just think, wow, like wow, what like we did what?
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_02: We so um there's yeah, I mean, there's so much of God's faithfulness and provision and also recognizing the support and the beauty of community that we experience during those really hard times.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_02: Um is just something I I love sharing and want everyone to experience.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I get what you mean, Jane.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_01: I went through a really unique family situation over the last uh almost several years, which is crazy to think.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_01: But to your point, you you go through it and it's on the other side sometimes that we realize, whoa, that is my story.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_01: That's the kind of thing I see in a movie or I hear about or I read about.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_01: That isn't something that happens in my life or my family.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's sobering.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's I'm grateful as you to your point to be able to have a simplistic way to now describe the last several years.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_01: And for you, thankfully, um, a positive outcome at this point, but such a journey to go and kind of our situation as well.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_01: Like there, there's no beautiful or pretty bow that is like it's all right, it's all fixed, you know, there's ongoing healing.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_01: And I think I I love that you add that because I think it's so important for all of us to understand the grief, the loss process.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_01: It is so nuanced and it's typically rarely just finished neatly and and fits uh, you know, in a chapter in our story.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_01: It usually touches every chapter afterwards at some level.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_02: I normally tell people grief has become a friend.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_02: So it's just this like we and and grief it doesn't always have to be a depressing, sad cloud.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_02: It can actually showcase a lot of beauty in life, which actually makes you love life more.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_02: But I really have adapted like a little grief friend that just comes with me wherever I go, and I'm able to process things and see things in a new light because of what I've had to consider of losing and um the pain that comes with unexpected and terminal illness and everything that comes with that.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_02: It's a you really can't just yeah, fix it and put it in a box and put it away.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_02: It it opens up things and you have to walk it out.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_01: I love hearing that high side of the four creep in your story and your narrative.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_01: That that's that's beautiful.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_01: Definitely seeing it.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_01: To call grief a friend, I don't take that sentence lightly.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_01: There is there's a lot to that.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um well, I know you kind of touched on that community was a big piece of it.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_01: So I have to imagine that this is where maybe Christy intersects.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_01: So you you mentioned even calling her and just voicing the honest, raw pain of the moment.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, thank you, Jane, for sharing that.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_00: I know it's not, I know it's not easy to revisit, but we um our stories are different, but we definitely both came to this work, you know, through personal experiences and the and Jane's has continued on, you know, um her initial experience was before we started working on NIR, but this second recurrence happened while we were working on NIR.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_00: And so, you know, that was a really um just meaningful and difficult, you know, it definitely informs everything we do.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_00: And so my story is um it really starts when I was a little bit younger, well, a lot younger.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_00: I was 10.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_00: I had a series of early illnesses in my family and losses.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_00: And I was raised as an only child, but my extended family was incredibly close.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_00: So we were all kind of a unit.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_00: And um, when I was 10, I became one of the primary caregivers for my grandmother who was living with Alzheimer's, and I helped care for her until she passed away when I was 16.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_00: And I always am very quick to say that that was one of the greatest honors of my life and a really deep joy because I know um there are children, you know, childhood and teenage caregivers who have much different experiences, but mine was really beautiful, and um, and that really shaped a lot of my perspective.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_00: And I was always really interested in going into the healthcare field and that deepened that as well.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_00: And then I had a cousin, she was also an only child.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_00: So we were, she was older than I was, but we were like sisters, you know, best friends, um, just really my person.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_00: And so right after our grandmother died, her mom was diagnosed with cancer.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I walked through that experience with her.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_00: Her mom passed away a few years later.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_00: And then in that same year, she was diagnosed with cancer.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_00: And so she was um sick on and off for about four years, and then she passed away when I was 22.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_00: And so it was a series of years and years of illness, and um, you know, your mortality was just right in front of you and at a at a very young age, at least for me.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_00: And so that experience shaped everything about me and everything about how I see the world.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um and that's kind of why we're here today.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_00: I knew that I wanted to be involved in, you know, serious illness and healthcare.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_00: I started out in the nonprofit world and then moved into uh Jane and I had a marketing agency we've had for 12 years.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_00: We work with nonprofits, but also small businesses that a lot of them in the end of life space and mental health space.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_00: And then in 2019, it just felt natural that we would turn some of those um skills and experiences into our own creation.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_00: And that's when NIR was really birthed and we've been working on it since then.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_00: But this newest iteration was launched more recently.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_01: I have so many questions that I want to ask you, just you know, B2B.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I'm going to steer the conversation in another thought.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I've always got so many questions.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_01: But I of course, um, when, and I don't even remember if it was Joanna, I get a lot of names in my inbox, as you can imagine, but I know that um there's some of those uh inquiries or quote unquote pitches of you know different things coming across my desk, but she knew how to title it because it got my attention.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_01: And I clicked away on the links really quick, which I don't typically do, and I immediately was like, oh, you got a good one.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_01: You got my heart.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_01: And so I was just clicking on there, and ironically, it actually landed.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um I'm gonna get emotional too.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but it landed my inbox um really briefly after one of my dear friends lost her mom.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_01: And I just because as um as someone who cares for a lot of people, and I have so many clients, they've lost pets and family and jobs and gone through illness.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_01: And um I it has is grown in me more attunement to grief.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_01: But also exactly the need that you're fulfilling is like, holy cow, what do I do?
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_01: How do I help?
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_01: And so I've gotten creative and used Instacart to send meals and flowers and you know, be the hands and feet that I cannot be because we can only be so many places at once.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_01: And so I'm grateful for strategy like this.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_01: But for me, I I just looked at what Nir was doing and I'm like, this, this is what we need, not only as someone who is in a role that I'm in, but everyone of us on a regular basis are encountering people who need that sympathetic ear.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_01: And we don't have to fix anything, we just get to offer care.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_01: So one of the things that I loved as well is you all are offering conversation and thoughts on topics that people typically aren't wanting to talk about, but they also are researching it because they need to know.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_01: So I'd love for you to just share some of those topics that you found really maybe helpful for you, or again, were birthed out of your pain and um your circumstances that you're like, you all need to pay attention and whether it's read that blog or gather this information.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_00: I can jump in real quick and Jane, you can add to it.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_00: I know we could talk for days.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously, this is our passion.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_00: We could talk about all of this for days and days, but a few things that stick out based on what you were just saying, especially regarding your friend who lost her mom, oftentimes, especially if someone isn't well acquainted with personal loss themselves, they feel pressure to do or say the right thing.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_00: And they also feel a lot of fear around that because they don't want to cause more pain.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_00: And so that sometimes goes in the direction of them not saying anything because they start to text and then they freeze and then they move on.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then time goes by and the person who is grieving or the person who is ill feels lonelier and lonelier because people aren't reaching out.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_00: And that's a really, you know, that's really part of part of what's at the heart of what we're doing is helping empower the person who has either experienced a loss or is sick themselves or their care coordinator to be able to ask specifically for things that they need.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, otherwise, a lot of times we're just left guessing, and um, which is better than nothing for sure.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_00: We don't mean to downplay that, but there is something really empowering about making sure that you're giving them a voice if they have the energy to have a voice.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_00: And then on the other side, it's helping equip you for, you know, how to reach out.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_00: And Jane has said this before, and she says it so beautifully, but you don't always have to say anything.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_00: Presence is absolutely powerful, even without words.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_00: And that is that's also really helpful just to know that sometimes you can just sit with someone and taking away that pressure and instead just offering your presence is really powerful as well.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um, Jane, I mean, I could answer a few other ideas too, but I would love to hear what you're thinking, Jane.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_02: No, I I I totally agree with you, and I think that's a great response.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like the we just want to normalize it in a way that's also takes away the fear and the unknown of it all.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_02: Like there are some really beautiful um ideas and opportunities and ways to care, as well as how to equip us to be better about the logistics near the end of someone's life or when someone is faced with a terminal diagnosis.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I feel like we we push all of that away thinking we'll never, either we won't ever touch that, or by the time we've experienced it in its past, we wish we had this product or this um, you know, service that there's so many beautiful service providers out.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_02: And so we're trying to say it's okay to talk about these things in a way that that lifts caring to the front and and provides and enlightens your experience a little bit.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_02: That's the least we can do.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_02: Um and so our heart is to really highlight those services and highlight resources that we feel like are um helpful um to family and friends and extended people who are watching it all play out as well.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_01: Would you give a little bit of a picture of what someone could ex could expect or experience?
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_01: Because I think we're all familiar with Meal Train, and that has been such a great resource.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_01: You know, man, I feel like that started in the dark ages, right?
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_01: Before, before we're really like adept to some of the technology.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_01: And it's been, man, I don't know, I've been on that a million times for for throughout the years.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um, what is it that you all are doing that kind of takes that concept to the next level when it comes to either someone is maybe in that process of losing someone or going through the hardship like you talked about, Jane, or on the other side of loss of losing that loved one and going through that stage of grief?
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so think of our care registry similar to like a wedding or a baby registry where you can add gifts and really lovely stuff, but it also adds this care request section where you can write in, I need someone to come do some housework.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_02: I need someone to just get the mail because I'm not able to get it and it's overflowing.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_02: I need someone to watch my kids because I have this appointment to go with with my spouse, or I need someone, I would just like to go out, but finances are tight.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_02: Like it just normalizes the requests and all the logistics, regardless of um for your own or for your house or for your family.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_02: And then it also adds in the, hey, we need dinner tonight, or we don't actually prefer casseroles, we prefer this delivery service because then it's on our timeline.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_02: Like there's a variety, it's really customizable based on where you are in your journey as well as your preferences as a family, as a single person, as a couple.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and so, and it also there's many terminal diagnosis or uh serious illnesses that require certain things that you have to have.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_02: Christy and I have know a friend that their dad could only have blended foods.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_02: And so they um the community all sent them Vitamixes, which is great, but they got like what, Christy, four Vitamixes.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_02: Oh no, and they needed just one, which is great.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_02: And it's stuff like that where it's like if we could funnel that and and maximize everyone's excitement to help, but organize it in a way that it's now not causing them to go return three Vitamixes, I think we can be more effective.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_02: Um and there's also things like post-surgery after like after misectomy, like there's a variety of beautiful comfort gifts that we can give to people.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I love flowers and I don't ever want my husband to hear me say that I wouldn't take flowers, but it's also helpful.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_02: There's also helpful um gifts that are just a little bit more catering to a specific need and that you can fill it out.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_02: We have hundreds of gifts on our registry right now.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_02: And so you can say, hey, these are the next five things that we need to bring comfort and be proactive about getting them for that person.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_01: Something that came to my mind that I thought might be good to throw out, and maybe you all have some ideas that you could add to.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_01: What I'm gonna say is sometimes we put a resource like this to uh extreme cases of loss and heartache.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_01: But I'd like to kind of add to that list if a family has let you in that their marriage is really struggling and they're going through whether separation or extra counseling and they're in a crisis, something like this is equally as beneficial for a situation like that.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm just curious for you, are there some situations obviously we want to protect and and um care for the community in a way that honors their story, but maybe help us think through, because not all of us have the superpower of a two to know that we need to help people.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_01: Or again, as you said, we're we're a little bit frozen because we're we don't want to do anything wrong here.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_01: But what are some other situations that we might need to go?
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_01: Ooh, so maybe something like this could be helpful.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, Chris, do you want to jump in?
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, sure.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_00: So uh to your point, you know, if someone's going through a separation, especially if there are multiple households involved, then, you know, one thing that's nice about the registry is we set it up well so that it covers travel, because oftentimes individuals are traveling for their own treatment or to support a loved one who's in treatment.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_00: And so we have a whole travel section.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_00: So that's kind of what comes to mind when I think about if you're dealing with multiple households, there's an interesting application there as well.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_00: But then also, and not to bring it back to the health, but it doesn't have to be a terminal illness to use it.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_00: So we, you know, like one user, for example, is having surgery and it's not, it's it's an acute situation.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_00: It's going to be hopefully a quote one and done surgery, but she still is going to have to have recovery time.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_00: And so, you know, being able to rally around people there, we don't have to think about it just in terms of, you know, the very end of life.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_00: We can just look at it at any struggles kind of along the way.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_00: One thing I would add too is you were mentioned you were asking about some of the services, and Jane did a great job of describing the care registry.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_00: We also have a care directory.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_00: And the idea behind that is exposing individuals to what services are out there, because oftentimes we don't know what's out there until it's too late to actually engage with the service and receive the benefit.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_00: And so we have categories for everything from end-of-life planning.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, you have legal needs, you have financial needs, but then also um legacy projects.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_00: That's one of my favorite categories.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_00: And kind of to your point about, you know, how can we help people see the need if it's not quite as obvious as a really serious illness.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like there's an invitation within the legacy space.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_00: And I'll define legacy, um, not in traditional terms.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_00: Oftentimes you hear legacy and you think wills and estates.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_00: Legacy includes much more beyond wills and estates.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's your memories, right?
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_00: It's your connections and how those connections remain after you're gone.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_00: And so I was, when we first started researching everything, I was really floored by how many beautiful services are out there to help you connect with the people you love.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_00: And that can be while you're still alive.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_00: That can be writing things now that they'll read later.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and there, the numbers of services out there include things like videos, um, you know, whether you're recording yourself or you're having a conversation with someone.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_00: Of course, there's the classic photo books and things, but there's some really interesting takes on that.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_00: Also, ones that help you figure out how to write letters.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_00: If you want to leave letters, it seems like it would be a very obvious thing, but when you sit down, it's incredibly emotional and very difficult.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_00: And there you can put a lot of pressure on yourself.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_00: And so these services will help provide a framework and kind of help nudge.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_00: So I would also invite people to think about it from a connection and relational standpoint in our life now, not just afterwards.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I am so glad you talked about this because I want my friends to be proactive.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_01: And this aligns with that concept of intentional, which is just a foundational word here of it gets overused and thrown out.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_01: And the invitation is that, you know, this, it's not easy, but it can be simple when we look to community to help us.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I think this is just that.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_01: To your point, I hope that as my friends are listening, you actually go check this out because it is there is an unbelievable amount of resources.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_01: It's not overwhelming.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_01: But I feel like any of us, no matter if we've just come out of a situation, we're going through it, or we're on the other side of it, there's something there.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and to this point of being proactive, right?
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_01: Those kind of things are going to, I think, ease some of those experiences at one form or another.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_01: And just can be where we can do it in a place where we have maybe a little bit more bandwidth and margin than when we're in crisis mode, though.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_01: We're all guilty of waiting till the crisis hits till we take care of things.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_01: Like I'm totally one of those.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we're having this conversation right here as we're in this like Halloween is tomorrow and the holiday season just ensues.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_01: In fact, we all know our stores are already, you know, have the Christmas decorations up in Costco and whatnot, right?
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_01: We haven't even passed out the candy.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I I was really excited about the timing of this because I um I've I've gotten more comfortable over the years talking about sorrow and loss and its celebration because I've been walking through it myself.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_01: But as we are preparing for the holiday season, we're like, okay, here we go.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_01: It's all good.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_01: And then we are like, oh yeah, there's this person that's hurting, or this is going to be the first, that first anniversary that marks that loss, or a diagnosis, God perfect, happens during this time.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_01: So I'd just love for you to talk about the resource that you've created with this idea in mind.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_00: What I would say, just to add on um, with with your kind of thoughts there, Amy, is just to add that it's okay if it doesn't feel the same.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_00: I think giving ourselves permission to hold certain holiday seasons as separate and set apart is the first step.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_00: And we have a tool that Jane can describe and how to think through that, but really just beginning from a place of understanding it's okay if it's not the same.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_00: We're gonna be gentle on ourselves, we're gonna be gentle on our loved ones.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, maybe this is a year for new traditions, or if you're facing, if you've already had a loss, maybe this is a year where you really lean hard into how do we still include them and their memory in our celebrations.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I think beginning at that place is is really helpful.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_00: And then yeah, Jane can talk a little bit about a tool we put together to help make that more um, make that a little easier.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, we put together our new holiday gift guide.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_02: And so it has different situations broken out into what we would suggest would be a great comforting, whether practical or just a very intentional gift to give to somebody, to feel like you're not just giving them a card or just giving them flowers, although people do love flowers.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and then we also in that guide have some checklists and just helpful tools to like think through or scripts that you can say, what shouldn't I say, or what's a better way to say this?
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_02: Um there's some really beautiful um tactical things that we can that we can do to support and better care during the holiday season.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_02: So that gift guide is now live on our site.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_02: And so you can download it and explore it and take screenshots and get products and has some of our favorite vendors in it that we um just think are are doing an incredible job crafting beautiful, beautiful gifts for different types of losses or illness or grief.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_02: So highly recommend.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, that's so good.
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_01: Christy, I love that you highlighted that idea of this doesn't have to be the same as it has been.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_01: And again, our unique grief situation, our the first Christmas where dad's no longer in the picture and it changed everything.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_01: Sorry guys, caught me off guard.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_01: Just what do you think?
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_01: It doesn't bother you anymore.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_01: It does.
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for your tenderness though.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's it's part of it.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_00: It's um and and I just I I appreciate yeah, I appreciate your vulnerability with us because it's something that we can easily hide, you know.
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I think that does our own grief a disservice and it does others a disservice.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_00: So I I appreciate you, you know, allowing yourself to to really think about what we're talking about.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_01: Clearly, you guys create a safe space because they weren't threatening before this.
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_01: So um I am so grateful for the wisdom that we got along the way.
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it was kind of it's it's an awkward thing um the the situation we went through.
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_01: So there wasn't the the care team or things like that.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_01: But I know that someone very wisely just said, you probably need to make Christmas look very different.
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_01: And that was uh some of the best wisdom that we could have gotten that really did help us.
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_01: It was still um a crazy hard time.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_01: But because we had gone into it knowing and preparing and not trying to make it the same.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_01: Gosh, that that helped tremendously.
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_01: So maybe my tears can help someone else.
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and the honest reality of like it's it's so okay that it's not the same.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_01: And I think probably those of us who are moms, we feel a pressure to make it the same for everybody else, maybe not even just our kids, but the nurture and and us women in particular, that we want to like hold it together and keep the traditions alive.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_01: And and some traditions have to go because they're just too painful.
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_01: And there might be years ahead that those traditions can come back because it'll be honoring.
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_01: But to to be just really kind, um, is here I am, it'll be our third.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_01: And it's still as I look ahead, I'm like, oh yeah, everything is different.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_01: And to try to make it the same is not kind.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_01: So wow, friends, you got the um the real um behind the scenes here, but I just I'm gonna give credit to Christy and Jane have created something really precious and really special.
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_01: And so I want to give thanks back to you for doing this work and creating this space.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so before the tears hijack this whole thing, I would love to just turn it around and just offer to you guys any last words of encouragement or just things that you want to call attention to for those of us who are who are wanting to be intentional with this process and and take a look at what you offer.
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you for sharing your story and a glimpse into your heart.
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I think it is what Chrissy said, there's something beautiful about being able to still feel the pain and not just becoming numb to it.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_02: That just shows that you're able to still feel joy, you know, and pain and the beauty of it all.
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_02: So that's um that's really beautiful.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_02: And I think it it's just a uh even bigger reason of like why we believe that people should like pour themselves into these hard seasons and care more because the pain kind of always lingers.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_02: We always kind of have these wounds.
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, healing does occur, and yes, time does help, but there is these gaps in our life that we kind of always have, and we have to um sit with them and give space to ourselves and others as we all adjust and give meaning to what we've lost.
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_02: And so I guess I would just encourage people to just start caring more, like to start to just say, like to recognize that person who's lost it and to say, like, I'm gonna be proactive for you and create the care registry, and you just tell me anything you need and like delegate yourself as the person.
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_02: And I know that my one of my best friends here was like, everyone like text me, not Jane, and I will get all of her requests.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_02: And it took that off of my the overwhelm that I was feeling.
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_02: And then I was able to be fully present for Andrew while knowing my needs were met from the community of just saying, Okay, but we're gonna pick up your kids or we're gonna clean your fridge because it has old food in it, because you haven't been home yet, like all the things.
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_02: Um so I think like just the boldness to say, I see you and I want to care for you, and this is how I'm gonna care for you.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_02: And then kind of in the holiday season to just yeah, give that space for family and friends to whether if you're ready to open it up.
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_02: We Andrew and I and our family, when we've got gone through hard times, we know that there's always permission to grieve.
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's not allocated here and there, but to get everyone in the same um mindset, we typically say, I need to open the box and I need to just like open up my grief box, I need to let all my pain out so that everyone kind of hear where I'm at so it doesn't monopolize the whole holiday season, although it can be opened at any time.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_02: And then I need to just like vocalize it and I'm gonna close it and we can enjoy this next five minutes if that's what it takes.
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_02: But I do think that there's a beauty in allowing other people to come into your grief too, so you're not alone in it.
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_02: Cause I think that's one of the biggest lies that we face is that you are alone in it, it's all happened to you, and we don't want people to feel that way.
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_02: We're in it with them.
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_01: Jane, that's so good.
• 39:27
  SPEAKER_01: That tip there of being willing to open the box because otherwise it comes out sideways and it can like leak through and kind of taint the whole time.
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_01: So that is so wise, so, so good.
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_00: How about you, Christy?
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_00: I was gonna say to Jane's point, you know, and this is a this is a little bit more of a concrete, I know we've had a a really um, you know, it's emotional, right?
• 39:49
  SPEAKER_00: This topic is is difficult.
• 39:51
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sure the listeners are having their own, you know, remembering their own experiences, or maybe it's pulling up a lot of feelings.
• 39:57
  SPEAKER_00: And so, you know, one one kind of tangible thing and a difference in addition to sitting with whatever this is bringing up, a tangible step is to say, we we refer what Jane was talking about, the person who's organizing as a care coordinator.
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_00: So I would encourage listeners to think, is there someone who would benefit from a care coordinator in a specific situation right now?
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_00: And if so, could I be that person?
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_00: Could I ask someone else to be that person?
• 40:23
  SPEAKER_00: And um, you know, the value of a care coordinator, if a registry is is fitting, if it's appropriate for the situation, then they can be the one to set it up because it's it's oftentimes way too overwhelming for the person at the center of the crisis.
• 40:35
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think just think about that care coordinator opportunity, both, you know, could you be a care coordinator for someone currently going through something in your life, or are you in a position where you need to ask someone to do that for you?
• 40:47
  SPEAKER_00: And and really feeling that permission and that blessing to go and ask for the help that you need, um, not just on a one-off basis, but really giving that over to somebody who would most likely love to do that for you.
• 41:01
  SPEAKER_00: So kind of thinking about both of those different options.
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, great point, Christy, because I do know that so I could speak for so many of us who we see someone going through a crisis and we want to do something, and it feels there's such great relief and just like, oh yes, okay, please, um, thank you for asking kind of thing is how I would receive the request for sure.
• 41:25
  SPEAKER_01: So it's hard to ask for help.
• 41:27
  SPEAKER_01: I I am totally guilty, not quick to ask or to send out the SOS, but I know that every single time that I have, um, it's been met with, of course, thank you for asking, you know.
• 41:41
  SPEAKER_01: So, um, and we know those people.
• 41:43
  SPEAKER_01: We all have those people that we can ask at least one.
• 41:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so ladies, I just have loved this.
• 41:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um, obviously the tears.
• 41:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um, this has been, um, I know that I will be grateful, even though my calls after this, I'll be like, darn it.
• 42:00
  SPEAKER_01: I got my puffy eyes to prove it.
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I just again love the work you're doing.
• 42:06
  SPEAKER_01: I'm so excited for the community here to get involved and be able to share the word.
• 42:12
  SPEAKER_01: Like that's the thing.
• 42:12
  SPEAKER_01: This is, we don't need this to be the best kept secret.
• 42:15
  SPEAKER_01: We like use the platform, share it with your people.
• 42:19
  SPEAKER_01: I I know these kind of resources are just so, so helpful.
• 42:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and it's an easy place, kind of as you mentioned, there's a lot of things all in one place, whether it's a miscarriage or end of life or surgery, all the different things that you can think of.
• 42:33
  SPEAKER_01: This is such a great resource to go to.
• 42:35
  SPEAKER_01: So thank you both.
• 42:36
  SPEAKER_01: I appreciate your time and God bless you and all that you're doing.
• 42:40
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 42:40
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for having us.
• 42:42
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you, Amy.
• 42:43
  SPEAKER_01: What a delight.
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_01: Well, friend, thanks for hanging with me through all the blubbering.
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_01: Goodness, it was unexpected.
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yep, I got warm, I got hot, it felt like an ugly cry, but I am learning to embrace emotion, right?
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_01: And to allow it to take me where I need to go in the moment.
• 43:01
  SPEAKER_01: It's not easy, but I'm here to testify it didn't lead to catastrophic depletion or some other horrible thing and the moment passed, right?
• 43:10
  SPEAKER_01: I really am grateful though that the waves of tears have lessened for me as the reality of my family dynamic has continued to settle in.
• 43:18
  SPEAKER_01: But also the reality is that there's gonna always be some sadness about that loss, though I can see more and more beauty come from the ashes.
• 43:26
  SPEAKER_01: Now, don't forget to check out the NIR website, it's staynear.co, and you can find the holiday care guide right there on the homepage, along with all the resources that we chatted about today.
• 43:38
  SPEAKER_01: Now, I'm guessing you likely thought of someone who could use this resource, NIR, and also the conversation in general.
• 43:45
  SPEAKER_01: So would you please pass this along?
• 43:47
  SPEAKER_01: I really am praying that all of these episodes reach as many friends as possible.
• 43:52
  SPEAKER_01: I really appreciate you sharing this with others.
• 43:54
  SPEAKER_01: You're truly the best.
• 43:56
  SPEAKER_01: All right, until next time, friend.
• 43:58
  SPEAKER_01: Continue to pursue God's perspective, purpose, and plans for your simply pull hard at life.