Latest / We Are More: Sisters Talk Faith & Feminism / Ep. 72: Oops, I Did Sin Again

Transcript

Ep. 72: Oops, I Did Sin Again · We Are More: Sisters Talk Faith & Feminism

• 0:12
  Speaker 1: To the We Are More Pod cast. My name is Alyssa. And my
• 0:15
  Speaker 2: name is Bree. We're two sisters passionate about all things faith and feminism. We believe
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: that Jesus trusted, respected, and encouraged women to teach and preach his word. And apparently, that's controversial. Get comfy. I have some great news. What might that be, Alyssa?
• 0:37
  By the time you hear this, we will be
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: in Disney. Think of a wonderful thing. It's the same as having wings.
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: You missed, like, four lines there,
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: I I feel like singing the whole thing. Well, why? Well, I didn't wanna get in trouble.
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: From Mickey Mouse. Ah, yes. Mickey Mouse.
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: We saw a car the other day. We were driving down the road, and it said, Mickey. And then there was, like, a little mascot on there too, and it
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: was a moose. It was a Mickey Mouse. It was. It was very funny. Oh my gosh.
• 1:13
  I thought it was quite clever, to be honest with you. It is quite clever. However, we also felt lightly offended.
• 1:19
  Speaker 2: I was more than lightly offended. Was very offended. My entire being, my soul, my spirit was When
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: we get to Disney, are you gonna like go up to Mickey and say, hey, I need you to avenge yourself?
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: I don't talk to the characters. I feel like we've established this. They freak me out. I like to see them from far. I like to see them in a show.
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: I don't wanna interact with them. Yeah. No. That's fair. I specifically avoid, like, the character dining things.
• 1:49
  Our mom loves them. She used to like to do them because then she wouldn't have to wait in line to see the characters. Yeah. Which I get. I hear you.
• 1:56
  Yeah. But I as an adult, I know like, there's the whole Disney adult stereotype. Right? Mhmm. And I will see these people on YouTube, and they're like, up.
• 2:09
  They go up to the characters. They're so excited. They have a whole conversation with them. What no. No.
• 2:14
  It stresses me out. I don't like it. I don't wanna interact with regular people. I certainly don't wanna interact with a person in a giant costume. What do you mean?
• 2:25
  I mean, a mouse that's the size of a person. What do you mean? Sorry, children. No. I'm frightened.
• 2:33
  Yeah. I don't like it at all. Mm-mm. I particularly don't like the face characters. So, like, the ones where it's just like a person the princesses or something like that.
• 2:43
  And you I'm looking at a person.
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: Okay. Something that weirds me out is, like, if you look at Smee
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: or Schmee is it Schmee? I think it's Schmee.
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: Schmee. Okay. He's in the Halloween parade. Schmee is a pirate from Peter Pan. Yes.
• 3:00
  Anyways, his, like, face is costume and his hands are costume. But if you look at his legs Mhmm. They're just human legs. Yeah. And you're like, that doesn't look great.
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: It's like he got cursed by Ursula in like a weird way. Oh, I don't like it. No. I just I avoid the characters at all costs. Yeah.
• 3:22
  I'll sit at the edge of a parade and pray to the lord above that they do not speak to me.
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: Speaking of the lord above. Jumping in on to our topic.
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: If we did, frankly, it'd be a record of how fast we got on topic. Wow. Well, here we go. Is that this week's transition song?
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: Well, I was singing Peter Pan again.
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: Oh, so this week's transition is Peter Pan. That was pretty good. I'm sorry. You didn't wanna get copyrighted at the beginning? Yeah.
• 4:01
  This is gonna be the fourth Disney song you've sang thus far. Yeah.
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: But this was just like sounds and noises. We're three minutes in. Yeah. Well, Disney won't listen to more than three minutes of a podcast that they're confused by. Sorry, Disney.
• 4:16
  It's okay. We can love them from afar. We can.
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: We did insult half their characters, so they turned us off right at the beginning. Sorry. So sorry. But we are very excited to go. Yes.
• 4:28
  Anyway, so we that's where we will be when you're listening to this. We're very pumped.
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: If you see many pictures of us on all of the social media platforms, just in Disney,
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: that's how you know. It's how we live our best lives. Yeah. You know what? Sometimes you need to step away from the horror that is the world and go to Disney.
• 4:51
  Sometimes you need that. Mhmm. But this week, we're gonna be talking a little bit about hey. We stayed on topic for this one. Look at us go.
• 5:01
  I'm so proud. We're gonna be talking about what is sin. Baby, don't hurt me. No. That's next week.
• 5:08
  That's what is love. We'll get there. But we wanted to talk about this one mostly because I I don't know about, you know, the types of congregations that you guys grew up in or the denominations or whatever. But the denominations that we were in, which was primarily Baptist or nondenominational secret Baptists.
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: No. No. No. Continue. I was waiting for more.
• 5:33
  They were definitely secret Baptists. But
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: it was kind of always this concept of you are constantly sinning from the moment you wake up in the morning until you go to bed. Like, just just constant sin cycle.
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: I would say from the moment you take your first breath Yeah. You're sinning.
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: They I heard on many occasions that babies crying was an evidence that you were born sinful. Mhmm. And the assumption was that Jesus never cried as a baby. I think I've said this before. But, like, can you imagine the true horror of having a baby that never cried?
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: Well, that's communication for a baby. That's like them telling you Mhmm. My butt is full of poop. Or I'm hungry. You know, baby things.
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: Baby things.
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: I wouldn't know. I don't have any children.
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: But it's just this concept that every breath you take, everything that you do, just being alive is sinful.
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: Mhmm.
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: That God created a perfect world, and the moment that Adam and Eve ate the apple, we were all screwed, and one day we'll burn. Like, that's really kinda what it boils down to. Mhmm.
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: If you didn't grow up in, like, the Christian tradition or religiously, that moment where Eve ate the apple and then gave it to Adam and Adam ate the apple and oh, no. You know? Oh, no. That's called the fall. Yes.
• 7:05
  And is a result of all of the bad things that have happened in the world today. Mhmm. Right? Because then sin was brought into the world, yada yada yada. Mosquitoes.
• 7:14
  Chin hairs.
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, man.
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: Body odor. What other bad things can I think about? When the ice melts in your iced coffee.
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: That is a bad thing.
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: Mhmm. And
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: mornings. Mornings are results of the fall? Yeah. Ah. I could have gone into a much broader context considering everything we've talked about for the last 71 episodes.
• 7:42
  Okay. Government.
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: Men. No. I've heard anything that's not honoring to God is considered a sin. Mhmm. But the tricky thing is, what do you consider honoring?
• 8:02
  Because what I would consider just kind of ambivalent another person might see as directly not honoring to God. So it gets a little tricky.
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: Mhmm. I remember when we were in youth group, when we were, like, high school aged, sitting and talking to, like, the pastor. We were at this tiny, tiny church, so the pastor was leading our youth group. Mhmm. And I remember him talking about school dance was coming up.
• 8:28
  Mhmm. And he was talking about, like, well, you know, for this person, you might pray about it. And God says, yeah. Go ahead. Go to the school dance.
• 8:37
  Whatever. No big deal. And this person might pray about it, and God might tell them because they're a different person.
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: Mhmm.
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: You know what? No. This isn't right for you. Don't go. Mhmm.
• 8:45
  He said, just follow what God tells you to do. And I remember that being, like, revolutionary. Now this was still a small, very conservative church. But hearing that was bizarre to me. And I I remember at the time thinking, I don't think he's telling us the right thing because I was so I had been raised in such a, like there's black and white.
• 9:06
  There's right and wrong. And everything that's not constantly shouting bible verses from the top of your lungs
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: Mhmm.
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: Is sinful.
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: Mhmm. Well, you think even the super fundamentalist, like,
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: the Duggars Mhmm. Wearing pants for them is sinful. Or they consider it such.
• 9:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Or they consider it sinful. Growing up, we heard that going to the movies could be sinful. Not necessarily because all of the movies are bad, but because someone might think that you're going to see one of the bad movies. Mhmm.
• 9:43
  And you don't wanna be even thought of as going to be near a bad movie. Mhmm. So, like, here's the sin, but anything around, you know, a 100 foot radius Mhmm. Of that, you wanna stay away from.
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: Or let's talk about, you know, Brie and I were some of the first in our family to go to public schools.
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: Mhmm.
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: That was a big thing because Actually, I think you were the first. Yeah. I was there a year before you were. But Brie followed shortly after.
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Because I'm shorter. That's not true.
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: But I remember that being looked at as as a bad thing because in our family, like, nobody did that. It was homeschooler. It was private school. And when I say private school, mean Christian school. Yeah.
• 10:25
  And so just the act of going to public school was often treated in Christian circles as sinful.
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I've heard it be like kids mature faster
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: Mhmm.
• 10:40
  Speaker 2: In public school settings because they're exposed to things quicker than kids in private or Christian schools. And I guess that's wrong. Mhmm. Or not as smiled upon. Not as Christian.
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: Yes. But it just sort of feels like when you're in Christian circles, to me, it has always kinda felt like you can't get away from the sin. Like, every little choice you make is sin. And what that has done to me as a person is give me a lot of anxiety about the choices that I make.
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: Mhmm. Especially, I think when you're younger and you do think that things should be black and white Mhmm. Your mind doesn't quite understand that, like, there's gray areas. Right. Or this could be right for one person.
• 11:25
  This could be, you know, wrong for another.
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: Mhmm. Or even honestly, that God doesn't really care. And I don't mean that as, oh, he doesn't care about you. But let's say I'm gonna go to Starbucks, and I'm deciding if I want an iced coffee or a pumpkin cream cold brew, which, by the way, if you haven't had it, go get one. But there isn't like, God isn't sitting there like, alright, this is the right decision.
• 11:52
  No. Because it's inconsequential.
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: Mhmm. I think what we forget too is that, yes, God cares about you. He knows every single hair on your head.
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: Mhmm.
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: Right? And there's verses like, if he cares about the the birds, how much more must he care about you? Yes. Obviously, he cares about you. But he wants to have a relationship with you.
• 12:11
  And so the little things that matter to you matter. But just like your parents. Right? Is mom gonna say, no, you shouldn't have the pumpkin cream cold brew because that has too much caffeine? Alyssa, you
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: should stick with the tea.
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: But I think often it does feel like that.
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: It does feel like there is a right answer here and a wrong answer here. And if I pick wrong, then I have sinned or I have done the incorrect thing and God is gonna hit me with a lightning bolt. Yeah. So I think it's important to look at what the Bible actually says here.
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: Mhmm.
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: Because Christians have made an industry of of Christianity. We've made an industry of our faith. Mhmm. And that means that we are told what this means and what that means and how to implement this and that. And that's really not what God ever wanted for us.
• 13:07
  Mhmm. What he wanted for us was to individually check out the Bible and say, like, oh, hey. This is what it says, and I'm going to make decisions based off of that. Not I'm gonna make decisions based off of my pastor's interpretation of what this pastor wrote about it in 1892. Columbus sailed the ocean blue.
• 13:25
  No. No. No. That's not right. I knew that was coming out of your mouth.
• 13:32
  So I have a couple of lists here. I love
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: a list. Do you? No.
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: There are a few verses that we're gonna go through. And then I wanna talk a little bit about what Jesus says, some different, like, context clues so that we can talk through the Bible, but also not just give you individual verses. You know?
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: Mhmm.
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: Actually, my husband and I were talking about this today. Brie and I went to Awana all growing up. I think we've said this many times before.
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: Uh-huh. I just side note, Awana changed their uniform. Mhmm. Just as I was about to get the uniform, they changed it from this, like it used to be this gray button up shirt with a red collar. Yep.
• 14:19
  And I was so excited to get that thing. Right? And then as soon as I was about to get it, they switched to this horrible green polo shirt. Uh-huh. And I was traumatized.
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: It was an ugly shirt. It was so ugly. Honestly, the the first shirt wasn't good either.
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: But Yeah. But it was like It
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: was a thing.
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Mhmm. Man, I digress. But anyway,
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: we were talking about how in Awana, you learned individual verses. That was the whole goal. If you guys were in, like, Wednesday night Awana Mhmm. You're with me here. But you would learn these individual verses, you'd have to go up to your group leader and say them.
• 14:58
  And when you got a section done or something, you'd get, like, a pin or you'd get a patch or whatever. Mhmm. And that's all well and good. I think it's it's there's nothing wrong, obviously, with having kids learn scripture. That being said, there was never any context about it.
• 15:14
  There was never any, like, here's how
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: to apply this in your real life. I think they had small passages, kind of like devotions. Like, here's a little bit. Here's a little story, and here's a verse tacked onto it that applies to
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: this story. But the verse itself, they didn't give you, like,
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: the verse before and after. Right. It was just kind of a devotion and attached a verse.
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: And let's be real. The children were not reading the devotion.
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: No. You're just trying to memorize it in the car on the way there so you
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: can get your patch. Yeah.
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: So I think it's important for
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: us as we look through this to give you some context to talk about the broader picture. And then I I would love if you then went out and read it too and checked out the sections of scripture and read commentaries on it, whatever, I don't know, sparks your interest, I guess.
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: Sparkies. Yes. Sparkies.
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: Okay. So throughout the New Testament, when Jesus is alive so I guess it's not really the New Testament. It's four books of the New Testament. The Gospels. The Gospels.
• 16:16
  Jesus talks about sin a decent amount. Mhmm. Now a lot of where we get our context for what sin is comes from Paul. And I do wanna talk in a little bit about why there's a difference there and how to look at it. But here's kind of like a summary of what Jesus says sin is.
• 16:35
  In Mark, he talks about how sin is like heart rooted.
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: Mhmm.
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: So how it comes from inside of you. It's like a result of not following God. I heard a pastor say it's like when you're separated from God. Mhmm.
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: Like when Adam and Eve ate the fruit that kind of separated them from God. Mhmm. And it caused them to feel shame for themselves when they look down on their naked bodies. Shame is a result of separation from God. Mhmm.
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: So it's instead of it being a culmination of all these little things that you do
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: Mhmm.
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: It's something that comes from sitting in a place of not following what God wants in your life. Jesus also talks in John about sin being relational. So like you said, that the root sin is rejecting God's love and Jesus' love Mhmm. As opposed to little things. Sin is also about justice and mercy.
• 17:30
  So when you neglect love, justice, and faithfulness, and then obsess over rules What? That is sin. This is Matthew twenty three twenty three. And this is the NLT. It says, for you are careful to tithe even the tiniest income from your herb gardens, but you ignore the more important aspects of the law, justice, mercy, and faith.
• 17:49
  You should tithe. Yes. But do not neglect the more important things. So in this context, sin in and of itself is still following God's laws. The person who is tithing from the littlest bit of money that they made selling basil, I don't
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: know, is still
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: sinning in this context. Mhmm. Because they're focusing on the little law instead of spirit of the law.
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: And I think we fall into this trap a lot. You see that and we've spoken about this a million times. But in the churches where it's like a checklist. Right? You're going to church on Sundays and maybe Wednesday nights.
• 18:31
  You are doing your devotions, and you're posting that picture on your social media of your Bible with your highlighter and your coffee cup. And you were listening to Christian music exclusively in your car, like, it's these little check boxes. That as long as you follow these specific things, then you're a good Christian. But like you said, it's the spirit. Are you loving other people?
• 18:54
  Are you taking those things that you're learning in your devotions and practicing in them
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: in your lives? Are you
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: listening to that Christian music and going out and loving the rest of the world? Yeah.
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: So if you take that little thing and you it's just like the Pharisees.
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: Mhmm.
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: They were following the laws. Technically, they were doing what God said to do. Right? Mhmm. And yet Jesus came down to them and criticized them the most of anybody else.
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And if you look through the 10 commandments, you can kind of break them up into two sections where it's like, are you loving God or are you loving other people? I think the 10 commandments are found in Exodus 20. You shall not have any other gods before me. You shall not make idols.
• 19:41
  You shall not take the lord's name in vain. Remember the Sabbath day. Honor your father and mother. You shall not murder. You shall not commit adultery.
• 19:51
  You shall not steal. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor. And you shall not covet. So all of them get broken down into like, are you loving God? Are you respecting God's spirit and wishes?
• 20:06
  Mhmm. And also, are you loving the people around you? Mhmm. And are you respecting the people around you? And are you helping the people around Anyway,
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: so the other parts that Jesus talks about with sin is kind of the consequences of sin. So in John, he talks about how sin enslaves people. And then that sin is simply a failure of loving.
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: Mhmm.
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: And that's in Matthew 22. That everything that Jesus teaches, when it boils all the way down to it, is about loving. Mhmm. Loving God and loving others. And violating that love is sinful.
• 20:43
  I think the church really focuses on all of
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: the things not to do Mhmm. All the time, it'll give you a whole checklist of things that you shouldn't do. Mhmm. Rather than just telling you what to do. And just like you said, I think if we taught people to look through the lens of, is this respectful and loving towards God?
• 21:03
  Is this respectful and loving towards others? Mhmm. Literally, it's the WWJD bracelets. Right? If you are able to wear that bracelet and live out your life like Jesus did Mhmm.
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: It'd be a much better place. Yeah. And I a lot like I said, a lot of what we get our definition of sin from, it comes from Paul. Now, I'm not sitting here saying a bunch of things against Paul. I think Paul has been misinterpreted in a lot of ways.
• 21:31
  Speaker 2: We did an episode on that, too.
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: We
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: did. One of our earlier episodes.
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah. It was one of our very first ones. However, I think it's important to remember that while, yes, Paul wrote a lot of the New Testament, like most of the New Testament
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: Mhmm.
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: Paul was not Jesus. Yeah. And so when we're looking to our reference point of what is sin, we should be looking to Jesus. Because Jesus is the one that came down, said all of this law that you've been following up till now doesn't matter anymore. Let it go.
• 22:00
  Mhmm. Let it go. Anyway, so Paul, he's an important figure, but he isn't Jesus. And I do think that the church so often even though they would never say this, you would never hear someone say, like, well, Paul is the equivalent of Jesus. We do treat him like that Mhmm.
• 22:17
  So often. And I can't imagine he's thrilled about that up in heaven. Yeah. But Paul was the one to make some lists because that's just kind of how he thinks. Like, you can tell his writing style throughout the New Testament.
• 22:30
  Like our mother, she loves a good list. She does love a good list. So Paul lists out some more specific sins. So I'm gonna read from the message because I do think that some of the other translations are often mistranslated. Mhmm.
• 22:49
  And we've taken a mistranslation and then retranslated it and retranslated it, etcetera, etcetera. So I like the way that the message approaches these verses because they're a little bit more gray area is what I'll I'll say there.
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: Try the gray stuff. It's delicious. I'm not gonna stop. I know.
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: But this is Galatians five nineteen through 21. And this comes from the message. And I will tell you, like, if you're used to, I don't know, the King James version or even really the NIV or the NLT, the message is a unique entity unto itself.
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Because there's not really, like, first numbers. It's written out, like, in a story format.
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: Right. And it's also it's just I'm a read it to you. It's a different kind of wording. But like I said, Galatians five nineteen through 21. And it says, it is obvious what kind of life develops out of trying to get your own way all the time.
• 23:44
  Repetitive, loveless, cheap sex, a stinking accumulation of mental and emotional garbage, frenzied and joyless grabs for happiness, trinket gods, magic show religion, paranoid loneliness, cutthroat competition, all consuming yet never satisfied wants, a brutal temper, an impotence to love or to be loved, divided homes and divided lives, small minded and lopsided pursuits, the vicious habit of depersonalizing everyone into a rival, uncontrolled and uncontrollable addictions, ugly parodies of community. I could go on. This isn't the first time I have warned you, you know. If you use your freedom this way, you will not inherit God's kingdom. So I like that.
• 24:27
  And again, if you read it in other contexts, like, does it is a little more specific in what these sins are. Mhmm. But we didn't wanna utilize those because I do think several of the things are a little bit mistranslated.
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: Mhmm.
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: But look at what that says. So Paul, obviously, it's quite a list. It's a long list. Mhmm. But basically he's saying, if you live a life that's sinful, here's what it looks like.
• 24:54
  It's putting yourself above God
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: Mhmm. At the end of the day. Because that's all that can look like.
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: Mhmm.
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: You're not concerned with what God would want for you or what God sees for your life or for the people around you, their lives. Mhmm. It's just what can benefit you the most.
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: Right. And if you look at each of these things, he's not saying, and this is sin, and this is sin, and this is sin. He's saying, you're living a selfish life. Mhmm. You're living a life away from God.
• 25:28
  And because of that root sin, these other things are happening. And they're screwing up your life.
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: This is not a good time. You're not having a good time. But it's not because each of these little individual things, God's oh, well, she did this today.
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: And she did this today. And when she gets up here, let
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: me tell you. Like, that's not what he's saying. He's saying you're living a sinful life in your heart, and therefore, these other things are coming out of it.
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: That's an interesting way to think about it. Because when, like, you're a kid and you think about judgment day Mhmm. And one day you're gonna stand before God and he's going to list out all the things that you did right and wrong. You think like, dang, I'm gonna be standing there for a hecking long time. Right?
• 26:12
  Because you're listing out every single sin I've ever done. Right. But that's an interesting way to interpret that too. Did you live your life with the spirit of sinfulness? Mhmm.
• 26:24
  Or did you live your life
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: with love in your heart
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: Mhmm. For God and for others?
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: You've all known somebody, probably, I assume, that just emanates that love. Mhmm. It doesn't even necessarily have to be a Christian person. No. But just somebody that, like, emanates that, like, joy and love and kindness.
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: Like Melissa McCarthy.
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: Sure. I just feel like she
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: has a light inside her.
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: Do you feel like she's a good person?
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: Yes. And
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: when you meet that person, like, you just and it depends on the sort of person you are, whether you wanna, like, hang out with them or not.
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: Mhmm.
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: But you know. They're magnetic.
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: Yes. They have an intoxicating personality. Right.
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: And I think that's what god is asking of
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: us. Mhmm.
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: Not to be happy all the time, not to follow every single rule, not to be perfect, but to be the person that emanates his love
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: Mhmm.
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: So that anyone who sees you knows.
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: And knows that you're like a safe space. And I think we've talked about this before too, like making yourself into a space where people feel like they can come and talk to you about anything. Mhmm. Because they're not gonna come and talk to you about their faith if they don't feel comfortable talking to you about how their day is. Right.
• 27:50
  And it doesn't mean that you have to be a super extroverted person. I think that's where we get confused is we think that to show God's love, we have to have this certain kind of personality. Especially women in the church. We have to be like super accommodating and super welcoming and have a soft spoken voice. But we're not all the same.
• 28:08
  We're all unique and we're gonna attract different groups of people. And that's what's special about humanity is that we're all unique and different. Right. I'm insane. We knew that.
• 28:19
  You're vicious.
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: I think, like, five episodes, we both talked about how we wanted to be terrifying. I don't wanna hear it out of you.
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: No. No. No. I'm also terrifying. I got
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: a sticker. I'm I'm very proud of this sticker. Okay? I got it off Timu or Temu as the commercials say. Timu.
• 28:41
  And it says, I'm not mean. I'm spicy nice. And it just spoke to my soul. Yeah. I had to buy it.
• 28:49
  It was like a dollar 25 for one sticker, but I needed it. That's alright. I needed it in my life.
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: That's a good deal.
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: But something Brie talked about before we were recording because sometimes we sit here and I don't know why we do this because we talk about some of our best stuff, and we're not even recording, which is one of our dumber things that we do. Yeah. But we were sitting here talking, and we were talking about how sin came about. We say that sin is the result of the fall. Right?
• 29:17
  But is sin the result of the fall? Or is sin the result of God giving us free will?
• 29:22
  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah. I did say that. You did. Good for me. Good for you.
• 29:27
  Mhmm.
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: The reality is sin could not have existed if God didn't give us free will.
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: Mhmm.
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: If God had said, you're gonna be automatons. You're just gonna do what I
• 29:39
  Speaker 2: say. Mhmm.
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: And praise me all the time.
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: Because when the devil came in and was making his way around Eve, she wouldn't have been tempted Mhmm. If she didn't have that free will Right. In the first place to be manipulated.
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: Because she would have never eaten the fruit because she would just be like, God said no. Mhmm.
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: But God gave that to us. Mhmm. So sin isn't really the result of the fall. Sin is the result, at the end of the day, of a decision that God made.
• 30:08
  Speaker 2: Mhmm.
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: The decision that he made in love to give us free will, to give us the ability to think for ourselves. Because like we said the last episode, true love can't exist in a relationship that has control.
• 30:23
  Speaker 2: Mhmm.
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: God isn't trying to control us, so he gave us free will. Therefore, sin entered the world. Not Eve ate the apple. Therefore, sin entered the world. Not Satan decided to come down as a snake.
• 30:38
  Therefore, sin entered the world. God gave us free will. And because of that free will, sin entered the
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: world. Mhmm. And we got periods. Hold on. Let us list some more crappy stuff.
• 30:49
  And we got uncomfortable heels.
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: Oh, yeah. And arthritis. Mhmm. And those little moths that have been flying around. And allergies.
• 31:00
  And the fact that there are so many gorgeous creatures that you can't pet. You don't even like animals that much.
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: But I like the idea of them.
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: Oh. Sure. Like a lion or hippopotamus. Why don't
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: you just feel like well, that would be interesting to pet. But you can't. You know, sometimes I feel
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: that we stay pretty serious through you know, we've got a serious topic. We stay serious throughout the episode.
• 31:31
  Speaker 2: And then sometimes this happens. I'm just ready to go to Disney. I think something important to talk about is if you're gonna claim to be a Christian Mhmm. And you're gonna wear your WWJD bracelet, you really have to think, am I actually living my life in a way that when people look at me and they say, I know that she's a Christian, I can tell. Mhmm.
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: You know, are you
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: actually living out the will of God? Mhmm. Because I know a lot of people and you know, on the news, in Who claim to be Christians. And they're not living their lives in a loving way. They're not living like Jesus did.
• 32:19
  Because when you look at the stories of Jesus, he surrounded himself with people who would not have been considered top of the line. Mhmm. The tax collectors, the prostitutes, yada yada yada. And he lived his life, like, really loving, really giving. Mhmm.
• 32:37
  Unconditional loving. There's a pastor
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: I hate calling some of these people pastors. I really just dislike it. But Mark Mark Twain. That's not it. What is his name?
• 32:49
  Driscoll. Thank you. Yes. You're welcome.
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: Wow. Where did he go?
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: We talked about him quite a while ago. He's a very conservative patriarchal pastor. Mhmm. And he has said that he can't get behind this idea of, like, a hippie Jesus. Like, an effeminate hippie Jesus.
• 33:08
  That he wants a strong masculine Jesus. And that's the Jesus that he could get behind.
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: He wanted, like, a political leader, a
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: Exactly what Jesus came down and said, I'm not doing this.
• 33:22
  Speaker 2: Mhmm.
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: This is not who I'm going to be. But that's who Mark Driscoll, who's a very famous pastor. You can see him all over TikTok. And
• 33:30
  Speaker 2: I guess you can want it all you want, but you can't make it happen. Well, that but
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: that's what they're trying to do is kind of ignore all pretty much all of what Jesus let's just ignore the gospels real quick. Let's cut them out. Let's mistranslate the rest of the New Testament. Mhmm. And assume that Jesus was who we wanted him to be.
• 33:50
  Yeah. But he wasn't. Like, Jesus was a little bit of a hippie. Yeah. Birkenstocks and whatnot.
• 33:56
  He was he says, your number one commandment is to
• 33:59
  Speaker 2: love. Mhmm.
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: That's it.
• 34:03
  Speaker 2: I just feel like that is a huge sin. That's like a what do they say? Like cardinal one? Cardinal sin. Is if you are gonna claim to be a Jesus follower Mhmm.
• 34:14
  And if you are turning people away from the faith because of the way
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: that you're living your life. Mhmm.
• 34:21
  Speaker 2: I think that's that's unacceptable. Mhmm.
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: One of the big debates amongst Christians, amongst different denominations of Christians, is what sin does to
• 34:34
  Speaker 2: you. Mhmm.
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: Does sin cause you to lose your salvation? Does sin simply push you further from God? Does sin not really matter in context because you're gonna go to heaven anyway because you're saved, so whatever.
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: At the end of the night, I'm a pray. I'm a say, sorry.
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: That's really how some people like, that's really how
• 34:56
  Speaker 2: you feel oftentimes.
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: As long as I say I'm sorry, whatever.
• 34:58
  Speaker 2: I'll ask for forgiveness later. Mhmm.
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: So one of the verses that I found was Matthew twelve thirty six and thirty seven. And this is the NLT. And it says, and I tell you this, you must give an account on judgment day for every idle word you speak. The words you say will either acquit you or condemn you. That's some pretty strong language.
• 35:18
  And I believe this does come from Jesus because it's in Matthew here. But and so this this verse has been given as, like, reasoning of, like, well, you could lose your salvation. Mhmm. Well, whatever. But it's important to talk about the context, the verses before and afterwards, and what Jesus was really talking about talking about here.
• 35:39
  So this, it says, comes right after Jesus rebukes the pharisees for claiming his miracles were done by Satan.
• 35:46
  Speaker 2: Mhmm.
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: So they're doing exactly what Mark is doing in this context, looking at Jesus and saying Jesus isn't who he said he was. Now Mark, in this case, is trying to do it to make Jesus a stronger man. But you're turning Jesus into who he's not.
• 36:02
  Speaker 2: Mhmm.
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: It's exactly what the pharisees are doing, that Jesus did something through the power of Satan. He also stresses in verse 34 that this is about a heart condition.
• 36:13
  Speaker 2: Mhmm.
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: This is about what's in your heart determines what comes out of you. Who you are inside. Isn't there's a song there's a Disney song somewhere in there. Who you are inside? Mulan, maybe?
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: Mhmm. The reflection song?
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: I think so.
• 36:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Do want me to sing it to?
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: Who I am inside. Right?
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I knew it. I knew there was one somewhere in there. So as you read through kind of the Greek words that are being used and things like that, Jesus is saying here, the result of just sort of general sin is not immediate God hates you and go die whatever. It's what's truly in your heart.
• 36:56
  Is what's truly in your heart love?
• 36:58
  Speaker 2: Mhmm.
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: Is what's truly deep in your heart looking at the example of Jesus and saying, this is what I want to follow.
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: I've heard it before too, where it's like, if you focus on that relationship with God and you take care of and you cultivate that relationship. Because it is, at the end of the day, a relationship. Mhmm. You should be talking to God all the time, having a conversation with God all the time. If you live your life in that way, that's gonna steer you towards love.
• 37:33
  Mhmm. And that's gonna be your guiding light. And that's gonna be how you live your life. Mhmm. But if you are living your life trying to just follow certain rules and not worrying about that relationship, I think that is gonna change just literally the way you live your life.
• 37:53
  Mhmm. Because you're always gonna be looking for loopholes. Right. Like how can I get around this sin? How can I get around that sin?
• 38:01
  At some point, does it really matter? Mhmm. Because the spirit Mhmm. Of your life is misguided.
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: Well, it's it's almost easier as humans. If God is checking boxes
• 38:16
  Speaker 2: Mhmm.
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: If all we have to do is follow the list. I think if so our mom loves lists. Right? And when we would clean the house when we were kids, we loved it because she would take two hours to make this list. And she'd be like, alright, we're gonna clean the house today once I'm done
• 38:32
  Speaker 2: with this list. And we'd
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: be like, alright, turn on a movie.
• 38:37
  Speaker 2: But there was just a list of, like, 50 different things to
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: get done throughout the house. Right? And that makes it pretty easy. Mhmm. I have to clean off the oven.
• 38:47
  I have to put all the dishes in the sink. I have to vacuum the living room. I have to what you're checking off the boxes. Mhmm. It makes it pretty easy.
• 38:55
  As Christians, if all God's doing is checking off boxes I mean, we can do that. Right? Mhmm. In in theory. We can do that.
• 39:04
  Speaker 2: Mhmm.
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: But if it's about what's in your heart,
• 39:08
  Speaker 2: if it's about who you are as a person Literally who you are as a person. That's a lot harder. Mhmm.
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: That becomes I need to be who Jesus wants me to be. Not just I need to do what Jesus wants me to do.
• 39:27
  Speaker 2: I think that's where we get a lot of the slimy people Mhmm. In this world who say they're living out what God wants for them, the pastors and whatever. And you find out they're not doing the right thing. Mhmm.
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: If your heart isn't positioned where God wants it to be, the result is all of these things. I mean, that's what Paul said. Right?
• 39:50
  Speaker 2: Mhmm.
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: And you can justify anything in your mind.
• 39:54
  Speaker 2: Like, the devil can work some crazy things Mhmm. In there. The devil can really manipulate your spirit and your mind, where you can justify doing a lot of bad things. Mhmm. Think of all of the bad things that happen in this world.
• 40:08
  Do you think anybody is like a Disney villain out there who's like
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: Actually, yeah. I do think
• 40:15
  Speaker 2: there are some people like that, but not all people.
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: I think most people most people are not. Most people are living the way that they think
• 40:24
  Speaker 2: Mhmm. Is right. But that's the thing is they think it. Mhmm. They're putting themselves above God.
• 40:32
  Mhmm. But they're slapping God's name on it.
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: That's That's the issue. And so there's a verse here. It's John nine forty one. And this comes from Jesus as well. It says, if you were blind, you wouldn't be guilty.
• 40:45
  But you remain guilty because you claim you can see. So what Jesus is saying there is if you knew nothing about me, if you knew nothing about the bible, nothing about my love, then you wouldn't be expected to follow all these rules. I wouldn't have these expectations of you. But because you say you know
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: me. Mhmm.
• 41:09
  Speaker 1: I expect something of you. Because you slapped my name on it.
• 41:14
  Speaker 2: Mhmm.
• 41:14
  Speaker 1: I expect something of you.
• 41:16
  Speaker 2: And I think that's what in the 10 commandments when it says don't use my name in vain. Mhmm. I think it's really easy just to say, don't say OMG. Mhmm. That's what that means.
• 41:27
  But I think it's what we're talking about. Right. It's slapping God's name onto something that he never said. Mhmm.
• 41:34
  Speaker 1: There's a sticker also on Timu. Hey. And I I wanna buy it in bulk. Someday I'll do it. And I'm gonna just, like, throw it at people.
• 41:41
  I'm gonna fling it at people as I walk by. And it's a picture of not really Jesus because, you know, he it's from a long time ago. But an image of what the Catholic church tends to think of as Jesus. And he's pointing at you, and he says, I didn't say that.
• 42:00
  Speaker 2: And I just love it.
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: Because the Christian church is just full. Like I said, it's an industry. Mhmm. We created an industry out of faith. And we said, alright, we're gonna tell you what's right and wrong.
• 42:14
  We're gonna tell you what's good and bad. Mhmm. No. Jesus told you what was good and bad. Jesus told you what was right and wrong.
• 42:21
  And the right and wrong is pretty simple. It's pretty simply, are you loving God? And are you loving others?
• 42:29
  Speaker 2: Mhmm.
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: That's really it. You don't need to be pointing out other people's sin. You don't need to be controlling other people. You don't need to be shoving your religion into the government. All of these extra little things that you think that you need to do, if you skip your daily devotions, it's okay.
• 42:49
  God'll be okay. You'll be okay. If you missed church this week, the world's not going to hell. Like, it's okay. God isn't keeping tally marks.
• 43:02
  Did you love God? And did you love others? I think that's what we'll answer to when we get to heaven or the other place.
• 43:09
  Speaker 2: And that's why I'm excited to go into next week's episode when we talk about when we say love others. Mhmm. When we say love God, what do we mean by
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: that? Right.
• 43:18
  Speaker 2: What should that look like? Because I'm telling you for free. That's not what we're seeing today. No. One of
• 43:26
  Speaker 1: the verses that I wanted to end on is very simple. It's John sixteen nine. And, this is Jesus. And we focus primarily on verses that came from Jesus in this episode because I think that's what we need to focus on. Like, yeah, Paul's still important, but Jesus is Jesus is the number one here.
• 43:43
  Right?
• 43:44
  Speaker 2: I know. That's odd. Groundbreaking.
• 43:48
  Speaker 1: But in John sixteen nine, Jesus says, the world's sin is that it refuses to believe in me. It really doesn't get complicated with Jesus here. Mhmm. He's not trying to add all this fluff. There's not the 600 rules that we're seeing in the Old Testament.
• 44:05
  Jesus strips everything down to the very basics. Well, I mean,
• 44:13
  Speaker 2: this is a verse that all other Christian kids know. John three sixteen. For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son, that whoever believes in me will not perish, but have everlasting life. I kinda mixed all the different versions.
• 44:29
  Speaker 1: You did. There were a few different translations in there. But
• 44:35
  Speaker 2: that's all that he requires of you to get to heaven. Mhmm. That's faith is just to believe in Jesus. Mhmm. Because he loved you.
• 44:43
  Speaker 1: I do have some questions about if you intentionally, like, guide people away from Jesus, like the people that we have talked about in the last two episodes. Mhmm. But, you know, that's not mine to to do.
• 44:56
  Speaker 2: Mhmm. Justice is for Jesus. But sometimes I like to be a spectator of that justice. Alright. So then, I guess alright.
• 45:10
  I said
• 45:10
  Speaker 1: the last verse was the last verse. But I'm gonna give you one more. Because I think it's a really good one to end on and to lead us to transition. Wow. Very well into our next episode.
• 45:22
  It's Matthew twenty two thirty seven through 40. This is Jesus. And he says, you must love the Lord your God with all your heart, all your soul, and all your mind. This is the first and greatest commandment. A second is equally important.
• 45:35
  Equally important.
• 45:36
  Speaker 2: Wait. Say that again. Equally important. Oh, okay.
• 45:40
  Speaker 1: Love your neighbor as yourself. The entire law and all the demands of the prophets are based on these two commandments. Equally important to loving God with all your heart is loving others with all your heart. Mhmm. Showing that love,
• 46:00
  Speaker 2: no holds barred. Well, there's no stipulations. There's no love your neighbor if they look like this. Love your neighbor if they are actually physically your neighbor. Mhmm.
• 46:12
  Love your neighbor if they are also a Christian. Like, there's no limits. Mhmm. Because who is your neighbor? It's everybody.
• 46:20
  Mhmm. We're all on the same planet.
• 46:23
  Speaker 1: The disciples asked Jesus that at one point. Who is my neighbor? Mhmm.
• 46:26
  Speaker 2: I think he said, like, look around, idiot. It's everybody. Yeah. I'm pretty sure that's exactly what he said.
• 46:33
  Speaker 1: Hold on. Let me look at him. Love God. Love others. It's that simple.
• 46:40
  Don't make it complicated for yourself. Because the more complicated you make it, the more you have to question every move that you make.
• 46:48
  Speaker 2: Every move I make, I make in you. You are my way. Jesus?
• 46:52
  Speaker 1: Is that another Christian song you know? Look at you. Mhmm. That was like three today. Not in the episode, but earlier.
• 46:58
  She was singing for just for me. Just for me and my love of her songs, obviously. But I think if we keep our faith pretty simple, if we keep what Jesus said just to what he said, we don't add all the fluff. We don't add the bubble around the sin. We don't add all the extra things.
• 47:16
  Just stay simple. Just stay with what Jesus specifically said to us. Our faiths will be stronger, and we'll be able to show God's love to a world that needs it.
• 47:28
  Speaker 2: Mhmm. And it needs it. Mhmm. It was even written in the Bible. Mhmm.
• 47:33
  It needs it.
• 47:34
  Speaker 1: So next week, we are gonna be talking about what is love. And by then, we will in fact be back from Disney. So we'll be sadder. Sinking deep into a deep depression. But we are recording it, like, tomorrow.
• 47:48
  So we won't be in a depression yet. The following episode, then you'll know. You'll get the vibes.
• 47:54
  Speaker 2: I'm already in a little bit of I'm like, vacation's over soon. What? So
• 48:01
  Speaker 1: if you wanna know what loving God and loving others looks like,
• 48:05
  Speaker 2: I guess tune in next week. Stay tuned. Slight cliffhanger, I'm
• 48:09
  Speaker 1: sure that you can manage for a week to figure out on your own how to love others. We will talk to you guys then slash tomorrow when we record it.
• 48:21
  Speaker 2: Huzzah. Have a good night day. Good afternoon. Good evening. And good night.
• 48:27
  Hello.
• 48:28
  Speaker 1: Wow. Alright. Love you. Bye.