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Manchester City Have Changed The Premier League Forever & Not For The Better | SI FC · Sports Illustrated FC

0:00
[SPEAKER_02]: For the Premier League to sit down and say, you know, we have no blood on our hands, we have no part to blame.
0:04
[SPEAKER_02]: That they could have prevented that from day one.
0:06
[SPEAKER_00]: Think that the punishment, no matter what it is, has to be so powerful that discourages everybody and anybody from ever doing something of the stature again.
0:15
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't really think it changes the way I perceive how good the players are.
0:19
[SPEAKER_00]: If now all of your silverware and accolades are now considered tainted or one through cheating, or your legacy definitely takes a hit.
0:28
[SPEAKER_00]: Welcome back.
0:29
[SPEAKER_01]: Welcome back.
0:30
[SPEAKER_01]: Welcome back.
0:31
[SPEAKER_01]: This is Sports Illustrated Football Club.
0:33
[SPEAKER_01]: Your football show, your sports Illustrated.
0:36
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm Alessandra Midey.
0:37
[SPEAKER_01]: And we can say, we are back.
0:39
[SPEAKER_01]: As always, Leah's busier than the building.
0:42
[SPEAKER_01]: How are we?
0:42
[SPEAKER_01]: I see you happy, yeah.
0:44
[SPEAKER_00]: It's good to be back.
0:45
[SPEAKER_00]: I miss the show.
0:46
[SPEAKER_00]: I know it was pre-plan for us to miss last week, but when you look at the amount of things that happen in our international breakman, I wish we had an emergency meeting recording or something like that.
0:54
[SPEAKER_00]: There's so much to talk about.
0:56
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, I mean, tense, international break, Italy, are getting the way back.
1:02
[SPEAKER_01]: La Miniamal, special, then we're going to talk about everything that's happened.
1:06
[SPEAKER_01]: But Luca, how was your trip to Italy, my man?
1:09
[SPEAKER_02]: It was a good man.
1:10
[SPEAKER_02]: Good break.
1:10
[SPEAKER_02]: Glad to be back.
1:11
[SPEAKER_02]: I missed it last week.
1:12
[SPEAKER_02]: This is probably the most eventful international break we've had at all.
1:16
[SPEAKER_02]: With Italy, it was a long time.
1:17
[SPEAKER_02]: I did, you know.
1:18
[SPEAKER_00]: The crunch talks with the Federation is that I were seeing the performances.
1:21
[SPEAKER_00]: Put your foot down.
1:22
[SPEAKER_00]: No, no, I have that every day with that.
1:24
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, now Alias, what have you eaten during the weekend?
1:28
[SPEAKER_00]: One of my eat.
1:28
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
1:30
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm putting on a little bit of weight.
1:32
[SPEAKER_01]: I have a look at this, because that this is exactly what Lucas sent to me.
1:36
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I didn't have this.
1:36
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, sorry.
1:37
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I'm sorry.
1:39
[SPEAKER_01]: And I had to look and find for Italian Lebanese here in London, you know, and it's not exactly the same.
1:45
[SPEAKER_02]: Look, exactly the same.
1:46
[SPEAKER_02]: No.
1:47
[SPEAKER_02]: It was a Saturday.
1:48
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
1:48
[SPEAKER_01]: It was a Saturday.
1:51
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
1:53
[SPEAKER_01]: How would you like this plate, look?
1:56
[SPEAKER_02]: incredible night.
1:56
[SPEAKER_02]: This is my favorite dish in the world.
1:58
[SPEAKER_02]: There's a couple of lachii di zuka with raguls, so pumpkin towards the loni with raguls sauce for me the nicest pasta dish, my favorite pasta dish.
2:06
[SPEAKER_00]: So are you guys having a group chat where you guys send each other food and something?
2:09
[SPEAKER_01]: No, no, no.
2:09
[SPEAKER_02]: I just sent him, personally, I'm watching.
2:11
[SPEAKER_01]: Personal message awesomeness.
2:13
[SPEAKER_00]: I must have missed the chat, man.
2:14
[SPEAKER_00]: It's fair enough, man.
2:15
[SPEAKER_00]: Fair enough.
2:15
[SPEAKER_00]: That didn't qualify.
2:16
[SPEAKER_01]: No, no, no, lunch time.
2:18
[SPEAKER_01]: Personal message awesomeness, sorry.
2:20
[SPEAKER_01]: Boom!
2:22
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm not saying in the menu as well.
2:23
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, in the menu, I don't want to say the menu.
2:26
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you say it too.
2:27
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, come on.
2:29
[SPEAKER_01]: This is the menu.
2:29
[SPEAKER_01]: This is the main story, but I have to go out and say, no, no, no, no, no.
2:33
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm doing the Italian Lebanese, just to compensate that picture.
2:38
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I was too many options.
2:40
[SPEAKER_02]: There were too many options on the list.
2:43
[SPEAKER_02]: So I had to pick it up.
2:44
[SPEAKER_01]: If you had to compare it to a player,
2:46
[SPEAKER_02]: A player.
2:47
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
2:47
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know.
2:48
[SPEAKER_02]: I guess because it's the best.
2:52
[SPEAKER_01]: No, no.
2:52
[SPEAKER_01]: Wow.
2:52
[SPEAKER_01]: People in the chart let us know your favorite dish likes, subscribe.
2:57
[SPEAKER_01]: Listen to us and Spotify.
2:58
[SPEAKER_01]: Watch us on her side TV.
3:00
[SPEAKER_01]: We are everywhere.
3:01
[SPEAKER_01]: And speaking of dishes.
3:03
[SPEAKER_01]: You know who was served at beta.
3:07
[SPEAKER_01]: A beta dish.
3:08
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, a lot of this transition.
3:09
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
3:09
[SPEAKER_01]: A beta dish during the international break.
3:12
[SPEAKER_00]: There's many people got served a bit of dish.
3:14
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, about marches to see oh, that's not even bitter.
3:17
[SPEAKER_00]: That's our rotten dish man That's a fool you the past them and it's if it's sitting in the fridge for 10 days You look at the sauce expired It loses for the right put that away man.
3:26
[SPEAKER_00]: That's what that's what medicine you got served.
3:27
[SPEAKER_00]: That is the nastiest dish and honestly it came out of nowhere I never thought they would actually have found guilty
3:34
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, for people who are leaving probably out of this road, Manchester United, Manchester City, before you come down, come down, come down, hold on, hold on, hold on, I'm only going to complain if that's the only way.
3:48
[SPEAKER_00]: Don't even try, don't even try.
3:49
[SPEAKER_00]: We have enough going on, commercial fraud is not one of them.
3:52
[SPEAKER_01]: Manchester City, before guilty by an independent commission of 115 charged.
4:03
[SPEAKER_01]: What do you think of the situation?
4:06
[SPEAKER_02]: I think it's pretty bleak for Man City, likely I said rotten, this they got served.
4:12
[SPEAKER_02]: I was surprised it came out nowhere too because I was always of the opinion that somehow this would just get pushed under the rub that somehow in some way shape or form city would have void these charges.
4:24
[SPEAKER_02]: The Premier League, I thought would protect them honestly if I'm being completely honest.
4:29
[SPEAKER_02]: But,
4:30
[SPEAKER_02]: It was just the biggest bomb that you could have, you could have four of in the international break and get from guilty of 114 of them is major.
4:39
[SPEAKER_02]: And these are major financial breaches over the span of a decade, which completely changed the trajectory of English football, the club of Manchester City, every other club in the league competed for league titles, but even clubs that faced them in any competition.
4:51
[SPEAKER_02]: So it might be the biggest sort of event in modern football history, honestly.
4:59
[SPEAKER_01]: What does Iran call inside the other major controversy in the Premier League history?
5:04
[SPEAKER_00]: Number one.
5:04
[SPEAKER_00]: In the Premier League, number one by far, in the Premier League from 92 onwards, this is obvious number one.
5:09
[SPEAKER_00]: The Premier League has never had, to be fair, what's the biggest conspiracy they had before this?
5:14
[SPEAKER_00]: What shall see in terms of paying agents?
5:17
[SPEAKER_02]: dope.
5:19
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
5:21
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
5:22
[SPEAKER_00]: That's it.
5:22
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
5:23
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
5:23
[SPEAKER_01]: I hear it.
5:24
[SPEAKER_01]: Fair enough.
5:24
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
5:25
[SPEAKER_00]: This clothes it out the water.
5:26
[SPEAKER_00]: This clothes it out the water.
5:29
[SPEAKER_00]: just the ramifications of it could be huge.
5:31
[SPEAKER_00]: We're still obviously waiting for the sanctions, which I think you're talking about a bombshell right now.
5:35
[SPEAKER_00]: Once those sanctions hit, I think that's where we're truly we're going to have the bombshell and we're going to have to look back the last 20 years of Premier League football and question how much of it was legitimate, how much was allowed to pass.
5:46
[SPEAKER_00]: I even think that
5:48
[SPEAKER_00]: Look, the emails in the case go up to 2018, but if they are indeed guilty of all of the things they've been accused of, it's naive to think that post 2018, they just, they found, they found an angel on their shoulder and they decided to go about things the right way.
6:02
[SPEAKER_00]: I think you have to look at the last 10 years even, even though they don't fall within this case.
6:06
[SPEAKER_00]: It's insane.
6:07
[SPEAKER_00]: It's insane.
6:08
[SPEAKER_00]: I've seen a lot of people try to almost victimize Manchester City.
6:10
[SPEAKER_00]: I've seen a lot of people almost trying to reason with them.
6:13
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's absolutely insane.
6:14
[SPEAKER_00]: These guys have genuinely took in the Premier League for absolute smokes for over a decade and they say what the truth has always happened today.
6:22
[SPEAKER_00]: If I'm like him.
6:23
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, now I want to do a little game with you.
6:26
[SPEAKER_01]: We are the jury here and what's the punishment for Manchester City for these 115.
6:35
[SPEAKER_00]: This is basically saying that they filled their appeal and that they are found guilty 100%.
6:39
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
6:41
[SPEAKER_01]: They further appeal, guilty under percent, people in the chart let us know your punishment.
6:45
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to start with Lees, because that, I'm curious about your view about this, because they're spastic, neatly, something else.
6:53
[SPEAKER_00]: But, uh, Lees, please.
6:55
[SPEAKER_00]: Uh, number one, I got a few punishments for me.
6:58
[SPEAKER_00]: Number one, I think the ownership group should be forced to some extra city.
7:02
[SPEAKER_00]: no matter what, I think they should be forced as a master city and I personally believe they should be banned from football.
7:06
[SPEAKER_00]: I think Halduna Umbarak, I think he should also be banned from football and it definitely take an out of his role for master city.
7:14
[SPEAKER_00]: I even think if it wasn't for his diplomatic community that he seems to have, he might be looking at bigger punishments.
7:20
[SPEAKER_00]: I would avoid seasons that they've won league titles in.
7:23
[SPEAKER_00]: I would avoid those seasons.
7:24
[SPEAKER_00]: I wouldn't give it the second, because I don't think that necessarily makes much sense, but I would avoid the seasons.
7:30
[SPEAKER_00]: And obviously, I think they're gonna receive a huge fine, but even on top of that, the amount of suing the other clubs, I think one, up doing due to losses from either financial in terms of missing on Champions League or bonuses that players should make.
7:43
[SPEAKER_00]: I think they'll get sued to the hills.
7:46
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think you've got to look at a hefty point seduction, a hefty point seduction that I would like to see send them down several divisions.
7:53
[SPEAKER_00]: I wouldn't want to see match their city permanently expelled from the Premier League for life.
7:56
[SPEAKER_00]: I wouldn't like to see matches just city liquidated.
7:58
[SPEAKER_00]: I wouldn't like to see them go out of business, but I do think that the punishment no matter what it is has to be so
8:05
[SPEAKER_00]: powerful that it completely scares any club from doing this in the future.
8:09
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that's the big thing here.
8:10
[SPEAKER_00]: You can't just give them a slap on the wrist.
8:12
[SPEAKER_00]: Otherwise, new cast will just look at it and say, well, if that's the punishment, if it's not that bad, we'll just do it ourselves.
8:16
[SPEAKER_00]: We'll eat that punishment.
8:17
[SPEAKER_00]: It has to be something that discourages everybody and anybody from ever doing something of this, the statute.
8:23
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, if I want to take you back a few months when we were all together, the fanatic fest and we met them is the president.
8:31
[SPEAKER_00]: Caldoan?
8:31
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
8:32
[SPEAKER_00]: When I tell you at the time, I say, she shouldn't enjoy his last few days of being able to... That's why you last days of freedom.
8:40
[SPEAKER_01]: It's my daughter.
8:41
[SPEAKER_01]: I tell you that.
8:42
[SPEAKER_01]: I told you guys, Caldoan, I said what?
8:43
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's what he said.
8:44
[SPEAKER_02]: I was like, I said, you didn't even... Was it you who didn't recognize him?
8:47
[SPEAKER_02]: No, I think I went to get the shot.
8:49
[SPEAKER_00]: I told him, I was like, that's Caldoan.
8:54
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm just making good.
8:55
[SPEAKER_01]: It's sometimes very good, never should.
8:57
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, you know, Luca, you are a member of the jury.
9:02
[SPEAKER_01]: Some member of the jury, yeah.
9:03
[SPEAKER_01]: They've been found guilty.
9:04
[SPEAKER_01]: What's your punishment?
9:06
[SPEAKER_02]: I really think I'd add anything to what Leah said to be fair.
9:08
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't think there's anything more you can really do.
9:11
[SPEAKER_02]: I think it's going to be hard to implement the...
9:15
[SPEAKER_00]: potential selling of Manchester City because now you're seeing the Saudi government get involved and they're threatening the British government if the owners were to force us out we're going to refuse to do trade with you there's there's a lot of the you ain't going to go not okay but hold on if that happens then we should start it's just boycott watching the Premier League not if if genuinely the Premier League are incapable of they force to run around with each other club for other reasons but political reasons right
9:38
[SPEAKER_00]: what these guys have done is worse than what Roman Abramovich did.
9:41
[SPEAKER_00]: Roman Abramovich is guilty by association.
9:43
[SPEAKER_00]: That's where a different story, right?
9:44
[SPEAKER_00]: But what these guys have done is commercial fraud, corporate fraud of the highest standard.
9:49
[SPEAKER_00]: And if you're going to almost go easy on them because you're afraid of what implications it could have with your political relationships with different countries, then at some point then we need to take a step back and say, we shouldn't watch the primary league if that's what's going to happen.
10:00
[SPEAKER_00]: If there's higher powers that play that are going to stop justice from being served,
10:04
[SPEAKER_00]: Then I'm sorry, as viewers, we should have a responsibility too to the funny stuff.
10:08
[SPEAKER_02]: Unfortunately, that's what happens in life.
10:10
[SPEAKER_02]: Where high power can get.
10:12
[SPEAKER_00]: That makes it harder to enforce justice.
10:14
[SPEAKER_00]: What has that ever happened in sport in sport?
10:17
[SPEAKER_00]: How many things I think?
10:18
[SPEAKER_00]: I think this is like, again, people are trying to look at it.
10:21
[SPEAKER_00]: We've met too many different points.
10:22
[SPEAKER_00]: You like, oh, could they have voted because of this?
10:24
[SPEAKER_00]: If the Premier League allows them to get away with this, because they're afraid of what the UAE are going to do,
10:29
[SPEAKER_00]: Then, Matt, we have bigger problems in the most of cities.
10:31
[SPEAKER_00]: We've got bigger problems on that city.
10:32
[SPEAKER_02]: Premier League that are frail.
10:33
[SPEAKER_02]: It's the British government.
10:34
[SPEAKER_02]: The British government, they're sorry to Ving.
10:36
[SPEAKER_02]: That's what I'm trying to say.
10:37
[SPEAKER_02]: Which I'm not justifying that, I'm just going to say.
10:38
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm just going to go.
10:39
[SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't need the UAE like that, and I'm sorry.
10:41
[SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't need it to that extent.
10:42
[SPEAKER_00]: No, I'm not.
10:43
[SPEAKER_02]: It's a massive deal of killing up for them.
10:44
[SPEAKER_02]: But what I'm saying is, if the British government were to intervene, that would put pressure on the Premier League, that might cause them to stay.
10:51
[SPEAKER_02]: It's what I'm saying is more complicated than it seems.
10:53
[SPEAKER_02]: This is what I'm trying to say.
10:55
[SPEAKER_02]: The next point would be, I think it'd be hard to just send them down leagues because the EF are on the Premier League at different entities.
11:01
[SPEAKER_02]: I think you'd have to give them, I'd struggle to see a world in which they give them incremented points, deductions every single season, if that makes sense, like 31 season, 30, the next, because then you'd also have to get the EF out of sign off on that.
11:14
[SPEAKER_02]: If you were to give them like a minus 7, I'd have done it, I'm just for arguments to say, 70 point deduction, they'd get ready to get from the Premier League straight down to the
11:23
[SPEAKER_02]: you know, welcome them.
11:24
[SPEAKER_02]: Maybe they'll object to it.
11:25
[SPEAKER_02]: Maybe they'll say we don't want them.
11:27
[SPEAKER_02]: And then that poses a question in what happens to them.
11:29
[SPEAKER_02]: Did they stay in the league again in the Premier League on minus points?
11:32
[SPEAKER_02]: And reality that that doesn't just then means that they can't ever get relegated, they're just never going to be able to get Europe.
11:37
[SPEAKER_02]: So it's more confusing than it is with Italy because Sereo, Sereo and Sereo would be a link to where it's the ear for on the Premier League of two different entities.
11:44
[SPEAKER_02]: I think the fairer source punishment would be
11:47
[SPEAKER_02]: I would agree that the ownership would have to sell.
11:49
[SPEAKER_02]: They wouldn't be involved in the club and football anymore.
11:51
[SPEAKER_02]: Pointed auction to the point where they get relegated.
11:53
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's the only real way to affect them.
11:56
[SPEAKER_01]: And what would you do to their titles?
11:59
[SPEAKER_02]: You'd probably void them.
12:00
[SPEAKER_02]: you wouldn't give them to second or third because it runs deeper than just our second place gets the Premier League title about the team that missed out on Europe, that you're about the team that got relegated, that you're about all the teams that face Manchester City in those seasons, what are the teams that lost out on financial capital gains?
12:15
[SPEAKER_02]: Are you ready for a spicy question?
12:17
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
12:19
[SPEAKER_01]: Our many scudettos, you went to the one in the fall to see.
12:24
[SPEAKER_02]: Of course.
12:25
[SPEAKER_00]: So, you've got a sound on your soundboard and so stop the cap, that's what we need.
12:28
[SPEAKER_00]: So what was
12:30
[SPEAKER_02]: from you and what was the difference yeah big difference culturally that is it's it's long could be an episode of self culturally was a ledge match match fixing compared to financial fraud I mean it's harder to prove match fixing though the proof that they use the two main sources of evidence in culturally were a gazetta articles this is a fact anyone could look at which is a Milan based article written by journalist how can that be evidence and see and be it was phone calls
12:57
[SPEAKER_02]: at the time.
12:58
[SPEAKER_02]: And in the, I think over 100,000 minutes or calls were for modgy speaking, there was no like clear proof that you vent us were paying off referees.
13:07
[SPEAKER_02]: At the time it's different now, but let's say you vent to a home or on my home, they would look after the referee, they would collect the referee from the airport, they would sort out the hotel, they would sort out the transport, that was just how it was, rather than now where the league does that.
13:19
[SPEAKER_02]: So there was no hard evidence that you've advanced so any of a club will pay in referees or manipulate matches in any way.
13:24
[SPEAKER_00]: So how did they come to a conclusion and then that, however many clubs, because it wasn't just you guys, however many clubs got the ducted points and stuff?
13:30
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, but what, then they came up with a conclusion from the jury, it just came up with a jury.
13:35
[SPEAKER_00]: They made a decision purely on newspaper articles and a phone call, yeah.
13:40
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you believe that?
13:41
[SPEAKER_00]: Of course.
13:41
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's, these are the facts.
13:44
[SPEAKER_01]: Based on phone calls that, you know, based on the phone, you went to, if I remember correctly there were fine guilty based on phone calls.
13:52
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
13:53
[SPEAKER_02]: It was a bit weird, like even at the time.
13:55
[SPEAKER_01]: You think you were innocent?
13:56
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm saying you vent us, looked after the referees by taking them to games, doing all of that like every other club did.
14:02
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm saying that there was the vendetta against you vent us to destroy them.
14:05
[SPEAKER_02]: Why did you vent us to get past most punished most harshly?
14:08
[SPEAKER_02]: When it was no clear evidence that you vent us with the only team.
14:10
[SPEAKER_02]: doing whatever.
14:11
[SPEAKER_00]: So you think they got all of your punishment for no reason, but they weren't there.
14:14
[SPEAKER_02]: We're using the original original punishments, where you went to Spain, Saudi, on a less point deduction, and they don't play European football next year.
14:20
[SPEAKER_02]: Same as Asim Alam.
14:21
[SPEAKER_02]: Don't play European football next year.
14:22
[SPEAKER_02]: The final punishment, you went to the only team relegated with more points.
14:25
[SPEAKER_01]: And Milan were allowed to play the Champions League playoffs because they won their
14:30
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, because the reason they were there, they missed them.
14:34
[SPEAKER_01]: And they started and they were punished.
14:36
[SPEAKER_01]: He was like 60 points and they went on the side.
14:37
[SPEAKER_01]: Ventus, Fiorentina, Lazio, and then only events.
14:42
[SPEAKER_01]: They found guilty, I guess.
14:44
[SPEAKER_02]: And go.
14:44
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, the other teams have found guilty about the punishment.
14:46
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, just events got relegated.
14:48
[SPEAKER_01]: Milan could take part in the Champions League playoff.
14:51
[SPEAKER_01]: And they won the Champions.
14:52
[SPEAKER_01]: And they won the Champions.
14:53
[SPEAKER_01]: And they won the Champions.
14:54
[SPEAKER_01]: I have a couple of questions for both of you guys.
15:00
[SPEAKER_01]: People in the chat, let us know your view, your opinion on these.
15:05
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, what would you stand?
15:06
[SPEAKER_01]: Because I've been listening to a few Manchester United players.
15:10
[SPEAKER_01]: Some of them said, I don't want that medal.
15:12
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't want that medal.
15:13
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, really said that, I think.
15:14
[SPEAKER_01]: And post-course, yes.
15:16
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm an avid.
15:17
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, the hair, the hair, too, is the same.
15:18
[SPEAKER_01]: The hair, too, is the same.
15:19
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, what do you stand?
15:21
[SPEAKER_00]: It's hard for me to say because I'm not a player.
15:23
[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't compete in those in those competitions.
15:26
[SPEAKER_00]: I can remember as a fan how I felt when Aguero scored in the last minute.
15:30
[SPEAKER_00]: I can remember as a fan how I felt when we'd lost by like however many points in 1718.
15:35
[SPEAKER_00]: As a fan, I feel like the moment itself is gone.
15:40
[SPEAKER_00]: So giving me a sec, oh, now I'll yes, you wanted the league in 10, 10, 10, 10, 11, 12.
15:45
[SPEAKER_00]: Doesn't do much for me, but I can also understand why as a player, some of the blood sweat interiors who sacrificed so much during that season why they feel like they should be retributed.
15:54
[SPEAKER_00]: As a fan though, I just don't feel it.
15:55
[SPEAKER_00]: Like if you tell me now, I'm not gonna go through a parade because I wanted the league in 2012, 11, 12.
15:59
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not gonna go talk to fans that season, say, oh, we want the league that year.
16:02
[SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't hit the same.
16:03
[SPEAKER_00]: But as a player, I can completely understand why they would think differently.
16:05
[SPEAKER_00]: So I guess it's a case-by-case basis.
16:08
[SPEAKER_01]: Before coming to you with another question, my point is because I remember that's like, if you take me back to CalShop, when it's 2006, I can easily tell you, you went tos where anyway, the best team in that league in those capital of years.
16:26
[SPEAKER_01]: So on a pure football side, they deserve those titles.
16:33
[SPEAKER_01]: There's a little dimple of my question for you is, of course it's like it's easy to say you are the best team on the pitch when you can inject money and do the better team, but well Manchester City, the best team on the pitch, that's not a conversation, that's not the question here, obviously they're the best team, the methodology of how they became the best team is what's, yeah, no one could question it, quality, all the teams were better, that's, yeah, of course,
16:59
[SPEAKER_00]: But should they have been able to assemble that kind of team?
17:03
[SPEAKER_00]: And then continue to almost write off players and sell them within a season and pay them crazy wages and bring Robino to the club for all of that definitely comes into consideration.
17:14
[SPEAKER_00]: Obviously, once they're on the pitch, okay, everyone can see.
17:17
[SPEAKER_00]: They got the bro and now they got Hal and God are the best team.
17:19
[SPEAKER_00]: But that's not the conversation here.
17:21
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, we know what I mean.
17:22
[SPEAKER_01]: And if now you were a Manchester CD player, how would you feel?
17:27
[SPEAKER_02]: Because now, I think it's interesting, really, because the players, I'm not going to say they feel betrayed.
17:34
[SPEAKER_02]: I feel like it might be more the fans, because players come and go.
17:37
[SPEAKER_02]: The fans remain in the club forever, so they kind of have to fill those implications a bit more.
17:41
[SPEAKER_02]: I feel where the players like Roger said in the interview, like we won the league on the pitch, we won those games on the pitch.
17:47
[SPEAKER_02]: So from a players point of view, I don't really think they were ever thinking about, oh, what's the board doing?
17:51
[SPEAKER_02]: Are they, you know, being involved and being co-involved in financial misconduct?
17:55
[SPEAKER_02]: Are they, are they doing it by the books?
17:56
[SPEAKER_02]: They've just been signed.
17:57
[SPEAKER_02]: They've been paid this big wage and actually they're going to accept it.
18:00
[SPEAKER_02]: And they've joined the club that are one of the most successful, one of my successful size in English football history at the time whenever they joined the pendant on the player, of course, because of where
18:10
[SPEAKER_02]: during it.
18:10
[SPEAKER_02]: But they at the end of the day, a players job is to get prepared for matches, win on the pitch, give it their all.
18:17
[SPEAKER_02]: And those players were involved in teams up one on the pitch.
18:19
[SPEAKER_02]: So from the players perspective, I don't really think they're going to be looking at this thing and you know, I feel so much shame and all of this because at the end of the day, they were bought by the board who were bending the rules.
18:30
[SPEAKER_02]: But then they themselves were the ones that actually won the game.
18:34
[SPEAKER_00]: You see that, but let me ask you this in a return.
18:37
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think there's anything you said, but now, undoubtedly, the conversation around a lot of these players is, well, their titles are tainted, their legacy is negative, as a player, if you're in DeBrona, for example, and you're hearing the entire world, a huge section of English football fans basically write off all your accomplishments.
18:54
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, okay, he won't leave, but they cheated.
18:56
[SPEAKER_00]: He's the relative of DeBrona, but DeBrona is still the best mid-photent primary
19:01
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, it's all on first and foremost, that's a conversation for a whole different day because in terms of, yeah, a lot of people, a lot of people could question could, yeah, okay, I'm talent, but a lot of people judge legacy and stuff based on what silverware and accolades, right?
19:13
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, if now all of your silverware and accolades are now considered tainted or one through cheating for your legacy definitely takes a hit.
19:21
[SPEAKER_00]: We're gonna look at you and say, okay, yeah, you want to match your city all those titles.
19:24
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, if Kevin the Bruno won one Premier League title from Manchester City, while another guy was winning seven Premier League titles for a club that had the resources that city did, that city did.
19:32
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm sorry, no one is gonna look at the burner as the greatest, even though his talent doesn't change, but your legacy, it goes off a lot of different things, right?
19:39
[SPEAKER_00]: The amount of stuff you win is a huge part of that.
19:41
[SPEAKER_00]: And he won a lot of stuff, because he's great for sure.
19:45
[SPEAKER_00]: because he was surrounded by the best team.
19:46
[SPEAKER_00]: And the best team was assembled for illegitimate means.
19:49
[SPEAKER_00]: Everybody's not going to say the bruna.
19:51
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you want all of that stuff.
19:52
[SPEAKER_00]: But you're team cheated to all of it.
19:54
[SPEAKER_00]: And that lessons the way I look at you.
19:56
[SPEAKER_00]: From the bruna, I'm looking at it and saying, bristol balled out.
19:59
[SPEAKER_00]: And now everything I did is looked at lesser.
20:01
[SPEAKER_00]: That would bother me.
20:02
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, no, that would bother him.
20:03
[SPEAKER_02]: I would agree with that.
20:04
[SPEAKER_02]: But at the same time, I feel like on the players' conscience and the bonus case, for example, however, they also know that this isn't my fault.
20:10
[SPEAKER_02]: This is caused by the bottom.
20:11
[SPEAKER_02]: So what I did on the pitch was me, and people at the time, now they might look at it differently, but that's been caused by what the board did.
20:19
[SPEAKER_02]: You get what I'm saying.
20:19
[SPEAKER_02]: So for me, I don't really think it changes the way I perceive how good the players are.
20:24
[SPEAKER_02]: No, they don't have you.
20:24
[SPEAKER_02]: You can't suffer from much from my efforts.
20:26
[SPEAKER_01]: Unfortunately, it's like,
20:28
[SPEAKER_02]: No, I get what- When you're gone, the picture representing your club.
20:31
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, 100%.
20:32
[SPEAKER_02]: And at the end of the day, the players and the border are in two completely different scenarios in a situation because it's not like the players were causing misconduct on the pitch or there's allegations against the individual footballers.
20:43
[SPEAKER_02]: It's more the board have put them in a situation where now their legacies are being painted, but it stems from the board.
20:49
[SPEAKER_02]: So in my opinion, I'm not going to view a Guero David Silver, Kevin De Bruyne any differently.
20:53
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to view maybe,
20:55
[SPEAKER_02]: The club, the board differently, you could argue even pet with the resources that he had to buy those players from the individualistic point of view of the actual.
21:04
[SPEAKER_02]: That never changed.
21:05
[SPEAKER_02]: No, that's not the case.
21:07
[SPEAKER_02]: That's what they do.
21:08
[SPEAKER_02]: I think it's different from a footballer perspective compared to the resources that pet had, but most importantly the board.
21:13
[SPEAKER_02]: It almost funnels down.
21:15
[SPEAKER_00]: I agree with everything.
21:16
[SPEAKER_00]: Say, obviously, Rodries Talon doesn't change where he plays for City or for Liverpool, but by the fall, by association, because what they won is now viewed as tainted, if you void every season that they won the league, I'm sorry, that does affect the way they're perceived.
21:30
[SPEAKER_00]: Not as players, but as great.
21:33
[SPEAKER_00]: You know what I mean?
21:34
[SPEAKER_00]: I've gained the fact the way you look at it.
21:36
[SPEAKER_00]: For example, Gerard has zero-premise titles.
21:37
[SPEAKER_00]: That affects the way a lot of people have seen it.
21:39
[SPEAKER_00]: Based on his teller.
21:40
[SPEAKER_00]: If he has three-premise titles,
21:41
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm sorry, people are looking at Jared in a higher level.
21:43
[SPEAKER_00]: Doesn't change the fact how we play the game, but his legacy is boosted.
21:48
[SPEAKER_02]: I totally agree with you.
21:49
[SPEAKER_02]: But here's the thing.
21:50
[SPEAKER_02]: I think from our perspective, we grew up with those city teams.
21:52
[SPEAKER_02]: We remember those city teams went on the pitch.
21:54
[SPEAKER_02]: And actually it's going to be tainted if those avoided.
21:55
[SPEAKER_02]: But we still know what those players did in those seasons.
21:58
[SPEAKER_02]: When it's not for me, it's not really going to change the way I perceived the brine.
22:01
[SPEAKER_02]: If the 17 18 season is voided, I know City won the league with 100 points.
22:05
[SPEAKER_02]: I know how important the brine was in that team on the pitch.
22:07
[SPEAKER_02]: But they didn't win 100 points.
22:09
[SPEAKER_02]: It's avoided, real.
22:09
[SPEAKER_02]: That season doesn't exist anymore.
22:10
[SPEAKER_02]: But I know it doesn't exist in the books, but it does exist in history.
22:14
[SPEAKER_02]: We remember.
22:14
[SPEAKER_00]: But why do those players, those... You were a member, but it's teated.
22:18
[SPEAKER_00]: That's what I'm trying to say.
22:18
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, we're remembering something.
22:20
[SPEAKER_02]: Play a perspective, though.
22:21
[SPEAKER_02]: It's not painted from the play of his perspective.
22:23
[SPEAKER_02]: This is what I'm trying to tell you.
22:23
[SPEAKER_02]: It's painted from a club perspective.
22:25
[SPEAKER_02]: Potentially even a coach perspective would be enabled to spend that much money to bring in those players.
22:29
[SPEAKER_02]: But the players, those 11...
22:30
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not calling them guilty, but I have a hard time separating them from the team.
22:35
[SPEAKER_00]: I do.
22:36
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not, again, I'm not saying that they knew anything that was going on, but I think they are supposed to have the class for them as different entities in marketing.
22:42
[SPEAKER_01]: Because you cannot, unfortunately, it's not possible to classify them as a, I completely get your point.
22:50
[SPEAKER_01]: I completely get the, the pitch perspective and the fun, I mean, me as a football fan watching the beautiful team playing, but as entity, they're representing the club and I fortunately,
23:05
[SPEAKER_01]: that way I love to, to build that team to a lot of Manchester City.
23:10
[SPEAKER_00]: I've won the league the following season in 1819 against that Liverpool team if they didn't have the financial advantage over Liverpool to build that in same squad not just to start a little bit of this question if you've been in that position.
23:19
[SPEAKER_00]: How they not been in that position.
23:21
[SPEAKER_00]: But even if you look at it just if you look at it just in that in that season in particular, you look at city's bench compared to Liverpool's.
23:26
[SPEAKER_00]: They won't leave by one point that year.
23:28
[SPEAKER_00]: They won't leave off one game where they beat Liverpool.
23:31
[SPEAKER_00]: They're almost what undefeated that season.
23:32
[SPEAKER_00]: If Liverpool win that league over Manchester City, that erases first and foremost, one of those great city seasons that you're saying, I saw, I remember the history, I saw what the burn had did.
23:41
[SPEAKER_00]: If you remove all of that and Liverpool end up winning the league, I started the way we're looking at the city players, does change, bro.
23:47
[SPEAKER_00]: And the way we look at the Liverpool players and turn also changes.
23:50
[SPEAKER_00]: That's my point.
23:50
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not trying to question.
23:51
[SPEAKER_00]: The bruna is great no matter where you put him.
23:54
[SPEAKER_00]: But I also think Pomba would have been great for that Manchester City team.
23:56
[SPEAKER_00]: The fact that he didn't play for that team affects the way people view him.
23:59
[SPEAKER_00]: He's not put into any conversations greatest from the league midfielders.
24:02
[SPEAKER_00]: Youngman's son, if he plays for that match, he's in team.
24:04
[SPEAKER_00]: Of course, he's also looked that way, but because they did it and they prayed for teams with less advantages in that city team, that's affecting the way they looked at it.
24:10
[SPEAKER_00]: That's my whole point.
24:10
[SPEAKER_02]: No, I get where you're coming from.
24:12
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's a tough, it's tough to see, because I get where you're saying as well, are the plays not actually linked to the club, right?
24:18
[SPEAKER_02]: They are the same entities as me, I'm looking at it from a point of view, where the board of the found guilty of financial misconduct.
24:24
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
24:25
[SPEAKER_02]: I know the plays were bought with that financial misconduct, but the plays didn't,
24:29
[SPEAKER_02]: The place aren't kind of involved in that, it's not, it's for me, for me, for me, on, on, on, on, on, beach.
24:34
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's, that's why I'm just a city where the, where the, where the bed, the best country.
24:38
[SPEAKER_02]: That's why I'm separate.
24:38
[SPEAKER_02]: And I know that the same entity is a club, because at the end of the day, even, all the employees, even, people that look after the patch and the, and the, you know, the people that cook the food, they're, who represent Manchester City.
24:47
[SPEAKER_02]: So in, in, in, in, in, in, in such that we're involved in it, right?
24:50
[SPEAKER_02]: But I'm separating the boards compared to the players.
24:52
[SPEAKER_02]: And in my opinion, okay, look.
24:55
[SPEAKER_02]: Naturally, if you strip all their titles, the brain has zero, a Premier League titles on the books, right?
24:59
[SPEAKER_02]: I totally get that, but I'm not going to forget how good coming the brain was.
25:02
[SPEAKER_02]: And I know, of course, of course.
25:04
[SPEAKER_02]: And I know in 2021, 22, he said, I can't get all four of that.
25:07
[SPEAKER_01]: That's the rub was, you know?
25:08
[SPEAKER_01]: That's the phrase, the game.
25:10
[SPEAKER_01]: No, no, no, no, no.
25:11
[SPEAKER_01]: To let, you know, I can forget, I mean, any play for QPR, no.
25:14
[SPEAKER_01]: If you look at me on the pitch, and it's like, it's not, it's not a longer cone.
25:18
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you cannot compare it with these players, because of legacy.
25:22
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, of course.
25:23
[SPEAKER_00]: I understand what you're saying.
25:23
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah.
25:24
[SPEAKER_00]: But it's the same with you.
25:25
[SPEAKER_00]: Right?
25:25
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, they'll peer on the phone.
25:26
[SPEAKER_00]: We still consider them elite players.
25:28
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know what it's for.
25:28
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know what it's for.
25:29
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
25:29
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know what it's for.
25:30
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know what it's for.
25:31
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
25:31
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know what it's for.
25:31
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know what it's for.
25:32
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know what it's for.
25:32
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know what it's for.
25:33
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know what it's for.
25:34
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know what it's for.
25:34
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know what it's for.
25:35
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know what it's for.
25:35
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know what it's for.
25:36
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know what it's for.
25:37
[UNKNOWN]: I don't know what
25:37
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm sorry, it does take their legacy and legacy is not directly correlated with quality because there's plenty of brilliant players without a brilliant legacy because they couldn't support it with silverware or seasons, that's all I'm talking about.
25:48
[SPEAKER_02]: I get what you're saying by my opinion, for me, I think if we were to do a hierarchy in terms of,
25:55
[SPEAKER_02]: Legacy-tainted.
25:56
[SPEAKER_02]: I think of course.
25:57
[SPEAKER_02]: Legacy-tainted the most.
25:58
[SPEAKER_02]: Of course.
25:58
[SPEAKER_02]: Then I do think perhaps unfortunately.
26:01
[SPEAKER_02]: There's Manajoo, Legacy's Tainted more than the players.
26:03
[SPEAKER_02]: Agreed.
26:04
[SPEAKER_02]: That makes sense.
26:04
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
26:04
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
26:05
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
26:06
[SPEAKER_01]: Since you mentioned Liverpool and the title race, of course, you'll get caught back in the day said, if they'll be fine guilty, I'm going to celebrate.
26:16
[SPEAKER_01]: He said that.
26:16
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but never heard of saying it.
26:18
[SPEAKER_01]: This week is said.
26:19
[SPEAKER_01]: I know.
26:19
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm no longer interested in this.
26:21
[SPEAKER_01]: Now my question for you.
26:22
[SPEAKER_01]: How do you margin?
26:23
[SPEAKER_01]: Leave a poopy people?
26:24
[SPEAKER_01]: How can I feel?
26:25
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, coming much.
26:26
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's going to be like a culture and honesty.
26:29
[SPEAKER_00]: I think a lot of games that Manchester City will travel to.
26:32
[SPEAKER_00]: A lot of their way games will be extremely poisonous for them.
26:35
[SPEAKER_00]: But especially that game, that is a heat like honestly, especially because Liverpool are probably the side that have been punished the most because of Manchester City's dominance, I think that's going to be an insane atmosphere, insane.
26:46
[SPEAKER_01]: Guys, let us know your thoughts on Manchester City situation in the comments, Luca, now the floor is yours.
26:55
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, going into that, good transition,
27:00
[SPEAKER_02]: The Premier League is still, I still has quite a big part to blame in this whole Manchester City soccer, right?
27:07
[SPEAKER_02]: And I say that because,
27:10
[SPEAKER_02]: The Premier League are the ones that welcomed state-owned clubs.
27:14
[SPEAKER_02]: They welcomed sports-washing money and to some degree as well in some situations, a legal money into the league.
27:20
[SPEAKER_02]: I think it massively started with Chelsea, and I know financial regulations weren't the same as they are today when a Bramavich took over.
27:28
[SPEAKER_02]: But the reality is, though, those,
27:31
[SPEAKER_02]: Rubenden sort of clubs like Manchester City help formulate the league.
27:36
[SPEAKER_02]: They help shape the Premier League because if it wasn't for Chelsea bringing or coming in with a band of it spending all that money, then city with shakeman saw the Premier League would just be Man United Arsenal Liverpool.
27:49
[SPEAKER_02]: every single season, Man United would have in the 30 titles.
27:52
[SPEAKER_02]: Arsenal Liverpool would be winning it every now and again.
27:55
[SPEAKER_02]: What makes the Premier League the Premier League it's today with how big the brand is, how competitive it is.
28:00
[SPEAKER_02]: It's because clubs like Chelsea were able to rupture.
28:05
[SPEAKER_02]: the hierarchy.
28:06
[SPEAKER_02]: Manchester City were able to rupture and destroy the hierarchy.
28:09
[SPEAKER_02]: Now they did so bend in the rules and I'm not condoning it.
28:12
[SPEAKER_02]: I think City should be punished.
28:13
[SPEAKER_02]: But at the same time for the Premier League to sit there and say, you know, we have no blood on our hands, we have no part to blame.
28:19
[SPEAKER_02]: They could have prevented that from day one.
28:20
[SPEAKER_02]: They could have said, no, we don't want our welcome, stay only on a ship.
28:24
[SPEAKER_00]: They could have said, no, it's still the issue, Luca, or is it what they do with that money?
28:29
[SPEAKER_00]: Because Newcastle are stay owned, and Newcastle have not broken.
28:32
[SPEAKER_02]: But then this question is about the weather money comes from as well.
28:35
[SPEAKER_02]: No, it's washing money.
28:36
[SPEAKER_02]: Of course, it's more washing to the views.
28:38
[SPEAKER_00]: We're washing is one thing.
28:39
[SPEAKER_00]: 100% no one condones the actions that people who might be affiliate with those.
28:43
[SPEAKER_00]: No one trying to condone that, obviously.
28:45
[SPEAKER_00]: But in terms of from a financial point of view, there's no issue with who owns the football club, right?
28:51
[SPEAKER_00]: No matter where your money's come, you can judge how they got that money, what they're doing in their own, I'm not trying to condone that, but the money is the money, right?
28:58
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think anyone should be discouraged from buying a primarily club, but I'm sorry, that's where they need to be, um, what's the word?
29:06
[SPEAKER_00]: Regulated better that's that's where I sit Let's put a state what if if if Manchester City got bought our many night got bought by Qatar recently I don't think it's an issue, but if Qatar now all of a sudden is spending more than they're allowed to We're trying to cook the books.
29:19
[SPEAKER_00]: We're trying to manipulate sponsorships That's when I think it's a big big issue and I do understand that when the big reason city did that is because of sports washing
29:26
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't really have an issue with stay on to be honest if you know.
29:29
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, fair enough.
29:30
[SPEAKER_02]: I think from a lot of people's perspective, they do have an issue with stay-owned ownership, funding and completely honest.
29:36
[SPEAKER_02]: I think with the Premier League as well, they could have prevented it earlier on.
29:40
[SPEAKER_02]: If you look at some of the books from the early 2010s, Premier League could have stamped it out much earlier on than when they started the investigation in 2023.
29:48
[SPEAKER_02]: It was bizarre that they were even allowed to operate at that rate for so long saying that they had
29:52
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, they've turned it over more profit then round my dread, clubs like that, which is obviously not going to be the case.
29:57
[SPEAKER_02]: I just think the Premier League.
29:59
[SPEAKER_02]: And other Premier League fans as well, you know, they've all benefited from this.
30:03
[SPEAKER_02]: That's the reality.
30:04
[SPEAKER_02]: City have helped turn the Premier League into the Dragonaut League it is with the top managers, the top players that have come to the league, the dominance, the success, the competitiveness.
30:12
[SPEAKER_02]: So for me, any other Premier League fans say, you know, our conscience is clean.
30:16
[SPEAKER_02]: We've not been affected by this.
30:18
[SPEAKER_02]: In reality, the knock on effect has been huge on those clubs and also the league.
30:21
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't think the Premier League would be where it is today if it wasn't for city band in the rules.
30:25
[SPEAKER_02]: if it wasn't for, I know Chelsea aren't involved because PSI was different at the time, but coming in with a Bramovic rupture in the dominance we could call it.
30:34
[SPEAKER_02]: Because reality is for you to dominate and for you to actually enter into their elites with Manchester United, Arsenal Liverpool, you have to bend the rules.
30:40
[SPEAKER_02]: You call it so aren't able to do that.
30:41
[SPEAKER_02]: They have the money, but you have to.
30:43
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't agree.
30:44
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't agree first and foremost that I think Chelsea, in particular, Robin and Bramovic coming to the Premier League, was a huge catalyst to make the Premier League would ultimately the biggest league in the world.
30:55
[SPEAKER_00]: Manchester City coming in and what it was a 2008.
30:58
[SPEAKER_00]: I think the Premier League was already on the ascendancy before then.
31:00
[SPEAKER_00]: I think the Premier League around 2007-2008000 was already the biggest league in Europe.
31:04
[SPEAKER_00]: I think then Spain took over because of Messian Ronaldo.
31:07
[SPEAKER_00]: That was happening during this Manchester City in Chelsea, Europe.
31:10
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's more so incompetence from La Liga, the Seria,
31:15
[SPEAKER_00]: Obviously Leegan, Bundesliga just aren't as powerful leagues, but I think it's more incompetency on their ends in terms of how they share revenue and share TV rights, and then also on top the Premier League, making it almost even from top to bottom in terms of how much teams can earn that attributed the Premier League becoming more of a competitive healthier, and therefore, the biggest league in the world, rather than Manchester City and Chelsea for sure, because they came in and just made it a three-horse thing, but since City came, City have turned this league into a monopoly in its own right.
31:40
[SPEAKER_00]: Right?
31:41
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just as dominant from a city perspective over the last 15 years as it was when Man United, we're doing it.
31:46
[SPEAKER_00]: You're saying it's Man United, isn't it?
31:47
[SPEAKER_00]: But it was our style Liverpool more here and there.
31:49
[SPEAKER_00]: With city, it's been city and then Liverpool and Arsenal here and there.
31:51
[SPEAKER_02]: No, I get what you're saying in terms of league touches won, but the reality is they rocked the hierarchy.
31:56
[SPEAKER_02]: It made it more entertaining from a point of view.
31:58
[SPEAKER_02]: They made their own hierarchy.
31:59
[SPEAKER_02]: They didn't rock straight though.
31:59
[SPEAKER_02]: They just created it.
32:01
[SPEAKER_00]: They made the league a better spectacle.
32:02
[SPEAKER_00]: I think the audio, I think it's already all a did.
32:05
[SPEAKER_00]: But again, the Manchester City...
32:07
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, but Manchester City had money before Guardiola came and they didn't make the league much of a spectacle.
32:12
[SPEAKER_00]: In fact, you could argue the weakest Premier League era in recent history was probably the early to mid-2000s, between 2010 to 2015-16.
32:22
[SPEAKER_00]: You're English clubs in Europe, mostly flopping, and Manchester City were a big part of it.
32:25
[SPEAKER_02]: That's the best there of the Premier League.
32:26
[SPEAKER_02]: I said, it's the worst.
32:27
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, exactly.
32:28
[SPEAKER_00]: But again, when City had most of its money, I think Wardial is brilliance on top of the players that they were signing from there is really what propelled City to another level.
32:35
[SPEAKER_00]: And I don't think it directly attributes to the Premier League's rise in my opinion.
32:38
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, what I'm saying is the rise of the Premier League started in the late 2000s, like you said.
32:43
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
32:43
[SPEAKER_02]: And it wasn't a massive jump like that.
32:45
[SPEAKER_02]: It was a steady way.
32:46
[SPEAKER_02]: It was a steady way.
32:47
[SPEAKER_02]: For me, the peak of the Premier League was late 20 times.
32:51
[SPEAKER_02]: 2017, 18, 18, 19, into the early 2020s.
32:54
[SPEAKER_02]: That's when the Premier League, any of the league at the water.
32:56
[SPEAKER_01]: But in terms of reputation, for me, it's right that the great job done by the Premier League was identifying the Asia as a market to sell the, even the, even the, even the, even the, even the, even the, the broadcast there, they're, they're thing, in terms of English being the, the biggest language around the world.
33:14
[SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.
33:14
[SPEAKER_00]: Another thing that identified those markets, elevate the market.
33:17
[SPEAKER_00]: Not denied it.
33:17
[SPEAKER_02]: But the reality is city helped load up the brand of the Premier League World, because of the players at the same time, the coach that they had, the dominance that they had, how good they were as a son.
33:25
[SPEAKER_02]: There's no doubt about that.
33:26
[SPEAKER_02]: But you're saying it was more so that argument is that the Premier League have also benefited from the city success.
33:31
[SPEAKER_02]: So then they can't sit there on their moral high horse and say, we weren't benefiting from this, this didn't help us at all.
33:37
[SPEAKER_02]: And the same goes for the other teams in the Premier League, because the reality is the Premier League improved as a whole.
33:42
[SPEAKER_02]: helped by city in my opinion and the other teams improved as a whole from a financial point of view from a spot in point of view, the the quality, all of that boosted.
33:49
[SPEAKER_02]: So in my opinion, I'm not saying there as accountable a city, but the Premier League definitely reap this benefits from the city situation.
33:58
[SPEAKER_02]: That's the way I view it.
33:59
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't disagree that they benefited off of it.
34:00
[SPEAKER_00]: I just disagree how much they actually resulted in it.
34:03
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, and there's a lot of floors yours yours.
34:06
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, okay.
34:06
[SPEAKER_00]: My floor is yours.
34:07
[SPEAKER_00]: It's pretty brief to be honest with you I just think this idea that Manchester City had to do what they did almost because they had they were up against it Right like that the red cartel were stopping other clubs from being competitive and took to compete with them You had to break financial rules the way Manchester City did
34:23
[SPEAKER_00]: I just think is the biggest load of baloney in this idea that PSR is holding teams back from accomplishing what they really want to do is also, again, in my opinion, complete baloney.
34:31
[SPEAKER_00]: I look at a club like Spurs and what they were able to do in the 2010s.
34:35
[SPEAKER_00]: They didn't break any financial rules to do it.
34:37
[SPEAKER_00]: They are part of the Red Cartel of Man United Arsenal and Liverpool who have this historic advantage over other clubs.
34:43
[SPEAKER_00]: Spurs turned from a club that at one point were genuinely under serious relegation threat.
34:51
[SPEAKER_00]: and to a team that were qualifying for Champions League football pretty regularly at one point where even going on title charges against teams with more money than them and even what as far as making a Champions League final all while playing financial fair play right all by by playing by the rules and ultimately I think what really hurt them was poor footballing decisions and turning them most recently is poor footballing decisions but I don't feel like
35:13
[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like spurs doing what they did should be a representation to all the clubs in the Premier League that this idea that you have to spend billions upon billions in break financial rule after financial rule to even come close to the sniffing glory is a flawed concept.
35:25
[SPEAKER_00]: Asden Villa have become a club that now of qualified for the Champions League to out the last three or four years.
35:30
[SPEAKER_00]: they want a Europa League trophy recently and I look at them as a team that are now considered part of the big six if you will.
35:36
[SPEAKER_00]: I know based on marketing, they probably are considered that, but they've done things the right way.
35:41
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, they've almost had to like stretch their wages as much as possible to even get there, but they should be an example that playing by the rules in the modern day Premier League.
35:49
[SPEAKER_00]: can actually result in greater things.
35:51
[SPEAKER_00]: I think PSR has actually improved the Premier League as a product.
35:54
[SPEAKER_00]: This idea that now we talk about the league being more even than ever.
35:56
[SPEAKER_00]: And my eyes, a lot of that is due to PSR and teams having to be more financially stable and more sustainable rather.
36:02
[SPEAKER_00]: This idea that city had to do what they did to ever be considered a great team is, in my opinion, the problem with society and modern day, everything has to be instant.
36:11
[SPEAKER_00]: right?
36:12
[SPEAKER_00]: The only way city could win the league within three years was by spending billions of pounds.
36:15
[SPEAKER_00]: No, you could have gradually grown yourself into a team that could one day aspire to do great things.
36:20
[SPEAKER_00]: It would have taken you longer to do it.
36:21
[SPEAKER_00]: You might not have had eight primary leagues in nine years or whatever they did, but to pretend that it was completely unfathomable.
36:27
[SPEAKER_00]: There's no way they could have done it.
36:28
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's victimization from extra city, from their fans.
36:31
[SPEAKER_00]: And from people in the primary league who are just tired of seeing big teams win.
36:35
[SPEAKER_00]: But
36:35
[SPEAKER_00]: And also at the same time, you look at every league, Barcelona and Real Madrid are the best two teams in the league.
36:39
[SPEAKER_00]: You don't hear like Valencia fans saying man, the league is against us, the rules are against us.
36:44
[SPEAKER_00]: Football is a sport that doesn't have a salary cap, right?
36:46
[SPEAKER_00]: There's always going to be better league.
36:47
[SPEAKER_01]: We have a salary cap, though.
36:49
[SPEAKER_00]: They have salary cap, I mean, do they?
36:50
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, you're telling me that that Barcelona and Ramadena have the same salary, or not, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, a salary cap, I think he's a just audience.
36:57
[SPEAKER_00]: My point is, right, if teams in the Premier League were really, like, Massachusetts, for example, were really hell bent on making the Premier League more fair.
37:06
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, everybody should have the same chance.
37:08
[SPEAKER_00]: then you should go about it a different way.
37:09
[SPEAKER_00]: And that is by suggesting, well, we should have a salary cap in the league, or how much you're a lot to spend in the league.
37:14
[SPEAKER_00]: Everybody should be at the same boat.
37:15
[SPEAKER_00]: But to say that, oh no, to break the rules or to break the establishment, we're just going to spend way more money than 90% of the rest of the league.
37:24
[SPEAKER_00]: And by everybody's best players, that's how we're going to stick it to the establishment.
37:28
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's a crazy flood thought process.
37:32
[SPEAKER_01]: Guys, let us know what do you think, let us know your punishment for Manchester City.
37:38
[SPEAKER_01]: We are going to be back tomorrow, we are going to talk about international break, we are going to talk about Leonardo Messi, we are going to talk about the MLS.
37:46
[SPEAKER_01]: For now, thank you very much, Leia's Busidi, thank you very much, Luca, and see you tomorrow.
37:51
[SPEAKER_02]: Ciao!