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How to Build the Community You Desire: with Cat Lantigua · QUESTION EVERYTHING

0:04
Speaker 1: Big things happen when you're pretty, pretty bold, pretty clever,
0:08
Speaker 1: pretty strong. I'm Danielle Robe, and each week my guests
0:12
Speaker 1: and I have conversations that put a new spin on pretty.
0:17
Speaker 1: This is pretty smart. I've been reflecting a lot about
0:21
Speaker 1: community lately, and here's why.
0:24
Speaker 2: So.
0:24
Speaker 1: I grew up in a suburb outside of Chicago, and
0:27
Speaker 1: like many of you, had childhood friends. They were made
0:30
Speaker 1: up of neighbors or kids I went to school with.
0:33
Speaker 1: And then I had high school friends, and then college friends.
0:36
Speaker 1: And my college friends were the first friends that I chose.
0:40
Speaker 1: It wasn't about proximity anymore. Whose house was close to me,
0:44
Speaker 1: who I was in class with. I chose them based
0:48
Speaker 1: on one simple thing. I liked them. We had similar values,
0:53
Speaker 1: and we would laugh. We would sit on the couch
0:57
Speaker 1: and we would laugh and laugh and laugh for hours.
1:01
Speaker 1: And that was the very last time I experienced built
1:04
Speaker 1: in community. It's one of those unique seasons of your
1:08
Speaker 1: life where it's a bit easier to make friends because
1:10
Speaker 1: you're surrounded by people your own age from all backgrounds,
1:14
Speaker 1: and everyone is starting over, everyone is looking for new
1:17
Speaker 1: experiences with new people. And then I moved to la
1:21
Speaker 1: in twenty thirteen, and many of you know that story.
1:24
Speaker 1: I moved into a garage in Santa Monica. I didn't
1:27
Speaker 1: know a single person, and I was laser focused with work.
1:31
Speaker 1: If I'm being totally honest, I didn't even think about
1:34
Speaker 1: making friends or building community. All I could think about
1:38
Speaker 1: was making enough money to pay my rent and how
1:40
Speaker 1: I was going to get a foot in the door
1:42
Speaker 1: in the entertainment industry. And of course, over the years
1:45
Speaker 1: I made some friends, but honestly, not that many. I
1:50
Speaker 1: made a lot of acquaintances, and then I started dating
1:53
Speaker 1: somebody seriously and his friends became my social circle because
1:57
Speaker 1: they were nice and I was lazy. And then when
2:01
Speaker 1: we broke up, I realized I had no community. It
2:06
Speaker 1: was the first time that it hit me in the face.
2:09
Speaker 1: I have course had friends that I could call from
2:11
Speaker 1: home or from college, but they lived far away. Whose
2:15
Speaker 1: couch was I going to go sit on and laugh
2:17
Speaker 1: with or cry with? Now? And then I was on
2:21
Speaker 1: a mission, a mission to build community. I joined a
2:26
Speaker 1: young leader's philanthropy group. I started training for a triathlon,
2:29
Speaker 1: and I figured that I'd meet people there, which I
2:32
Speaker 1: kind of did. I joined a bike club on Sunday
2:35
Speaker 1: mornings I met people there, and slowly I started knowing people,
2:41
Speaker 1: and knowing people turned into caring about people, going to birthdays,
2:46
Speaker 1: inviting them to mine, And all of a sudden, five
2:49
Speaker 1: years later and some of those new friends weren't so
2:52
Speaker 1: new anymore. And now we have history, we have experiences
2:56
Speaker 1: and inside jokes to call on. Some of them that
2:59
Speaker 1: are from LA I've even met their parents. And while
3:03
Speaker 1: I do feel like I have community now, it was
3:06
Speaker 1: not easy to build. It took time, It took care,
3:10
Speaker 1: it took attention, It even took money, and it took
3:13
Speaker 1: putting myself in situations that were uncomfortable or I didn't
3:17
Speaker 1: even want to be in or didn't feel like I
3:20
Speaker 1: had time for. But I knew I had to do it.
3:24
Speaker 1: So when I think about community, I can't help but
3:27
Speaker 1: think about the foil to it, loneliness. I've been there,
3:32
Speaker 1: I've felt lonely. I felt lonely a lot, and I
3:36
Speaker 1: think we've talked about loneliness quite a bit over the years.
3:39
Speaker 1: I'm pretty smart. It's on the rise. The Surgeon General
3:43
Speaker 1: called it an epidemic, which sometimes I think feels like
3:47
Speaker 1: a little dramatic, but it is a lot of us
3:49
Speaker 1: are struggling to find that sense of community in our lives.
3:54
Speaker 1: There's this author, Robert Putnam. He's actually a political scientist.
3:58
Speaker 1: He wrote one of my very favorite books. It's called
4:00
Speaker 1: Bowling Alone. The overarching idea is that in the past,
4:04
Speaker 1: bowling leagues were a common form of social activity in America.
4:09
Speaker 1: People would gather every Wednesday or Tuesday night with the
4:11
Speaker 1: same group of people wearing matching bowling shirts, laugh, drink
4:15
Speaker 1: a beer. And then all of a sudden, in the
4:17
Speaker 1: late sixties and early seventies, bowling leagues started to decline
4:21
Speaker 1: and more people were bowling alone or with just a
4:25
Speaker 1: few friends rather than in league settings. This idea of
4:29
Speaker 1: bowling alone has become synonymous with lonely for me. Tamer
4:35
Speaker 1: and Hall even has done episodes about the lack of
4:38
Speaker 1: community that we all have nowadays. I saw this one
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Speaker 1: six months ago that hit me because it was about
4:44
Speaker 1: young people. Take a listen to this.
4:47
Speaker 3: An epidemic of loneliness and isolation is on the rise
4:50
Speaker 3: across the United States.
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Speaker 2: I remember my parents telling me about bowling leagues and
4:54
Speaker 2: being able to go to the mall and doing things
4:57
Speaker 2: like that in real life. But now when you meet
4:59
Speaker 2: someone you would change instagrams. That's how people make connections, right,
5:03
Speaker 2: It's like, do you have anxiety? Oh my gosh, b too.
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Speaker 3: Despite how connected we've become online, the Surgeon General's Advisory
5:10
Speaker 3: found that young adults are twice as likely to be
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Speaker 3: lonely than seniors.
5:15
Speaker 2: And honest measures Steel forgotten.
5:17
Speaker 1: About one of the girls even mentions bowling leagues because
5:21
Speaker 1: the shift from team oriented activities to individual pursuits highlights
5:26
Speaker 1: the growing trend of individualism in society. And if you
5:30
Speaker 1: think about what was happening in the sixties and seventies
5:32
Speaker 1: in America, it was all about counterculture, challenging traditional norms,
5:37
Speaker 1: prioritizing self expression, personal fulfillment. You can see it reflected
5:42
Speaker 1: in the social movements of the time, civil rights, women's rights,
5:46
Speaker 1: LGBTQ rights, and all those movements highlighted the importance of
5:51
Speaker 1: individual freedom and equality. You can also see it reflected
5:56
Speaker 1: in music, in fashion, the art of the time. There
6:00
Speaker 1: was also a decline in civic engagement, which provided connections
6:05
Speaker 1: think membership organizations like parent teacher associations or labor unions.
6:11
Speaker 1: And then we changed how we lived. People were moving
6:14
Speaker 1: from urban areas to rural areas. And suburban living often
6:17
Speaker 1: involves greater physical distances between neighbors, you rely on cars
6:21
Speaker 1: instead of public spaces, and fewer opportunities for spontaneous social interactions.
6:27
Speaker 1: Our work patterns, our family structures changed, and then of
6:31
Speaker 1: course the rise of technology. We live in a high communication,
6:35
Speaker 1: low connection world online and we think we're making connections
6:39
Speaker 1: because we're constantly communicating. But here's what's interesting. Our brain
6:44
Speaker 1: does not fire oxytocin off unless all five senses are engaged.
6:49
Speaker 1: We need in person connection. And I say this all
6:54
Speaker 1: to share the why how we got here, because I
6:56
Speaker 1: think it's important to understand it to figure out where
6:58
Speaker 1: we're going. And a lot of that shift to individualism
7:02
Speaker 1: was awesome, that self reliance, personal intuition, individual spirituality, and
7:07
Speaker 1: of course freedom and equality. It's all stuff we were craving.
7:13
Speaker 1: But have we taken it to the extreme, and in
7:16
Speaker 1: the process have we torn the social fabric in a
7:19
Speaker 1: thousand different ways. David Brooks, another one of my favorite writers,
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Speaker 1: an expert in connection, says that the path to repair
7:28
Speaker 1: is through making deeper commitments, and that idea of deeper
7:32
Speaker 1: commitments to self and to others resonates deeply with today's
7:36
Speaker 1: guest Kat Lentigua. Kat is a community architect. How great
7:44
Speaker 1: is that title. She's also a podcast host and author
7:47
Speaker 1: of the new book Build It and They Will Come,
7:50
Speaker 1: a guide to architecting intentional community. Kat says that as
7:56
Speaker 1: a collective, we're not well and we're experiencing societ shifts
8:00
Speaker 1: at a pace that many of us are having a
8:02
Speaker 1: difficult time keeping up with.
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Speaker 2: Social media has created a filter for us to view
8:09
Speaker 2: other human beings as numbers. We have to break out
8:13
Speaker 2: of the norm of scrolling on our phones and just
8:17
Speaker 2: expecting things to fall on our lops and really go
8:19
Speaker 2: out and put ourselves out there.
8:21
Speaker 1: Kat said that she's made the discovery that everyone is
8:24
Speaker 1: struggling with loneliness on some level, and by hiding it,
8:28
Speaker 1: nothing is getting any better.
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Speaker 2: The more I talked about it, more transparent I was
8:33
Speaker 2: about my loneliness, the more I realized like everybody was
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Speaker 2: kind of keeping it a secret.
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Speaker 1: So today Kat shares her vision for a more community
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Speaker 1: driven world. She shares her experiences with becoming an architect
8:46
Speaker 1: of connection in her own life and finding alignment with
8:50
Speaker 1: the help of relationships, and best of all, she shares
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Speaker 1: how you can too, So Kat, you are a community architect,
9:03
Speaker 1: which is such a beautiful job title. How do you
9:06
Speaker 1: interpret the word architect in relation to community?
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Speaker 2: So as I thought about this question, I was like,
9:14
Speaker 2: where did I even get the idea to start calling
9:18
Speaker 2: myself a community architect? And I think it stems from
9:21
Speaker 2: having sat with the word or the phrase community builder
9:24
Speaker 2: and contemplating on the fact that I feel like it
9:27
Speaker 2: goes beyond building, Like if we're talking about future society
9:33
Speaker 2: and we're thinking about what it's going to look like
9:35
Speaker 2: and how we want it to feel, and putting ourselves
9:39
Speaker 2: as like the people that are going to make it happen,
9:43
Speaker 2: that are not waiting around for other people to do
9:45
Speaker 2: it for us, I'm like, oh, we have to design it.
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Speaker 2: It's not just like building it the structure of that.
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Speaker 2: It's about considering how we want it to feel, how
9:54
Speaker 2: do we want it to look, how do we want
9:57
Speaker 2: to design it. There's a different feeling that you get
10:00
Speaker 2: when you think about design versus like constructing, and I
10:05
Speaker 2: intuitively felt like I aligned more with the design aspect
10:10
Speaker 2: because it feels more holistic in considering the future and
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Speaker 2: like how I want community to be integrated and know
10:18
Speaker 2: how I want people to feel in community.
10:22
Speaker 1: So you wrote a book all about belonging and saying
10:25
Speaker 1: that you felt that you unquestionably did not belong during
10:29
Speaker 1: your adolescent years, which is a really powerful and really
10:33
Speaker 1: sad statement. Like I think we all have felt that
10:37
Speaker 1: feeling of not belonging. Why did you feel that way?
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Speaker 2: I think it's so multifaceted, and the more digging I do,
10:45
Speaker 2: the more answers I kind of come to terms within
10:50
Speaker 2: what I think where it's stems from is the fact that,
10:53
Speaker 2: like I am Afred Latina, I was born in the Bronx.
10:56
Speaker 2: I grew up around a lot of different cultures and
10:59
Speaker 2: people who looked like me in the Bronx. And when
11:03
Speaker 2: I was about five years old, my mom and I
11:05
Speaker 2: moved to Miami, and in the late nineties in Miami,
11:11
Speaker 2: I just did not feel like I was understood, like
11:15
Speaker 2: I was being thrusted into binaries, and I just didn't
11:19
Speaker 2: fit in any of the binaries. Latinas at the time
11:21
Speaker 2: were depicted as a certain kind of person, and being
11:25
Speaker 2: black was depicted as being a certain kind of person.
11:28
Speaker 2: And I didn't even speak English when I went to
11:31
Speaker 2: Miami because I went to schools in the bronx that
11:36
Speaker 2: were with Dominican people, and my family alwayspoke Spanish, and
11:39
Speaker 2: so I think that's where it stems from. Is already
11:43
Speaker 2: feeling like why can't I describe myself? Why don't I
11:46
Speaker 2: have the language to explain what I feel and how
11:50
Speaker 2: I exist in the world. Eventually I was like, well,
11:53
Speaker 2: I don't think you can avoid standing out. You're just
11:56
Speaker 2: gonna have to embrace it, and you're gonna have to
11:58
Speaker 2: dig deep and love your and so it also just
12:01
Speaker 2: became a really thorough journey of coming back to self.
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Speaker 1: Do you remember that turning point?
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Speaker 2: Yeah? I do. I think it was senior year of
12:13
Speaker 2: high school, or maybe it was junior year going into
12:16
Speaker 2: senior year. But I went to get a relaxer at
12:20
Speaker 2: a salon in Miami, and the chemicals of the relaxer
12:25
Speaker 2: burned my scalp so badly that I thought I was
12:27
Speaker 2: gonna end up going to the hospital. And I told
12:30
Speaker 2: my mom. I was like, I never want to do
12:32
Speaker 2: this again, Like it's just not worth it just to
12:34
Speaker 2: have pin straight hair, Like I cannot keep doing this
12:37
Speaker 2: to myself. But I was also terrified because I didn't
12:40
Speaker 2: know what my hair looked like from the age of
12:42
Speaker 2: six till seventeen, I was relaxing my hair every six weeks,
12:46
Speaker 2: so I didn't know what my curls were like, I
12:49
Speaker 2: didn't know how to style my hair, but I was like, well,
12:52
Speaker 2: I'm gonna have to learn because I'm never doing that again.
12:54
Speaker 2: And that was the turning point because like for women
12:59
Speaker 2: our hairs, actually for black women too, like your hair
13:02
Speaker 2: is like a very very very important part of how
13:05
Speaker 2: you present yourself to the world. And leaning into the
13:08
Speaker 2: fact that I was about to start presenting in a
13:10
Speaker 2: way that I didn't know when I wasn't familiar with
13:12
Speaker 2: and I didn't know how people were going to receive me,
13:15
Speaker 2: I think kind of was the catalyst for me to
13:17
Speaker 2: sit with all other parts of myself. And luckily at
13:20
Speaker 2: that time, I was also meeting a lot of different people,
13:24
Speaker 2: and I manifested friendships that were allowing me to like
13:27
Speaker 2: really be myself. And I was being recommended products and
13:31
Speaker 2: this and that, and so everything happens as it was
13:34
Speaker 2: supposed to, but it was a scary transition. I'm not gonna.
13:36
Speaker 1: Lie you actually write in the book the prospects of
13:40
Speaker 1: making new friends as an adult, especially in a city
13:42
Speaker 1: of eight point four million people are usually slim to none.
13:46
Speaker 1: You know. I think as I interview more people and
13:49
Speaker 1: I hear about stories of friendships, the more I learn that.
13:53
Speaker 1: I think when we grow up around community, we take
13:56
Speaker 1: it for granted because trying to build it or design
13:59
Speaker 1: it is very, very difficult. It's time consuming, sometimes it
14:03
Speaker 1: costs money. What are we doing wrong? Do you think
14:07
Speaker 1: when we're trying to make new friends and build that community.
14:10
Speaker 2: Well, I think it's interesting in thinking about the landscape,
14:14
Speaker 2: like the physical landscape that we are in, when we
14:18
Speaker 2: are thinking about building community. Right, Like I now live
14:21
Speaker 2: in Mexico, and in Mexico there are third spaces everywhere,
14:25
Speaker 2: there are parks everywhere. You can design your routine and
14:28
Speaker 2: your schedule in a way where you will see the
14:30
Speaker 2: same people every day, and you will naturally and organically
14:35
Speaker 2: build it because the design of the city makes it
14:38
Speaker 2: so that that is prioritized. In the States, I don't
14:43
Speaker 2: necessarily think it's the same, especially in big cities. This
14:45
Speaker 2: is something that people talk about all the time, is like,
14:47
Speaker 2: why don't we have more green spaces, Why don't we
14:49
Speaker 2: have more third spaces? Why do you have to pay
14:51
Speaker 2: to be somewhere all the time? Why can't you just exist?
14:55
Speaker 2: And I think that that's a whole other conversation because
14:58
Speaker 2: that would honestly remove half the battle if you were
15:01
Speaker 2: able to just go to the park and sit there
15:03
Speaker 2: for a few hours at every single you know, Thursday
15:06
Speaker 2: or every Saturday, and you know, kind of build a
15:09
Speaker 2: routine and see the same people and then eventually you
15:11
Speaker 2: would end up talking. So that's that part. So I
15:15
Speaker 2: also write like it would it would really make everybody's
15:20
Speaker 2: life easier if that was.
15:21
Speaker 1: The case, and it still exists in New York. So
15:24
Speaker 1: I think like that's part of the reason New York
15:26
Speaker 1: is so social.
15:27
Speaker 2: Yes it is, And also what I observed when I
15:32
Speaker 2: moved back to New York when I was like twenty
15:34
Speaker 2: four and I ended up building Goddess Counsel and everything.
15:36
Speaker 2: It's also one of those cities where everything is moving
15:39
Speaker 2: very fast. Everything's moving super fast. People are locked in
15:43
Speaker 2: to where they're going and where they're leaving, and there
15:46
Speaker 2: isn't a lot of space to wander and to kind
15:48
Speaker 2: of just like happen upon places, and so oftentimes people
15:54
Speaker 2: just hang out with folks from work, or they hang
15:57
Speaker 2: out with people that they've always known. And if if
16:00
Speaker 2: you're born there, you hang out with the people that
16:01
Speaker 2: you grew up with. But if you're a transplant, it's
16:04
Speaker 2: difficult to make friends out of the built in networks
16:08
Speaker 2: that are baked into work and you know, maybe go
16:11
Speaker 2: to the supermarket, the same things that you always have
16:14
Speaker 2: to do just to survive. And so what I think
16:17
Speaker 2: we need to consider and what we need to do
16:19
Speaker 2: differently is challenge ourselves to break out of the monotony
16:22
Speaker 2: of life and break out of the routine so that
16:25
Speaker 2: we can go this way instead of the usual route,
16:29
Speaker 2: because if you go this way, you might bump into
16:31
Speaker 2: somebody that you would have not typically bumped into, or
16:35
Speaker 2: instead of going to the same cafe, you can probably
16:37
Speaker 2: change things up. That's kind of like a double edged
16:40
Speaker 2: sword though, because I have found that if you go
16:42
Speaker 2: to the same places over and over and over, that
16:43
Speaker 2: is also an easy way to just build community. The
16:46
Speaker 2: barista or there's somebody who alway gets their cofee. At
16:49
Speaker 2: the same time, there are certain things that you can
16:51
Speaker 2: also lean into with routine. But when it happens to
16:55
Speaker 2: like a default and you leave no room for spontaneity
16:58
Speaker 2: and you leave no room to to lean into hobbies
17:01
Speaker 2: or trying something new. It kind of makes it impossible
17:04
Speaker 2: for you to become a different version of yourself and
17:07
Speaker 2: also to attract different people into your life, like you're
17:09
Speaker 2: just not energetically a match for something new.
17:12
Speaker 1: I feel so connected to what you're saying because I
17:15
Speaker 1: was a transplant and I grew up with a really
17:18
Speaker 1: strong community in Chicago, and when I came to La
17:21
Speaker 1: I realized I had none. And I actually realized three
17:25
Speaker 1: weeks and I didn't know a single person, and I
17:28
Speaker 1: hadn't laughed. And so I would go to the comedy Store,
17:32
Speaker 1: which is like a like a laugh factory type of
17:34
Speaker 1: thing here on Wednesday nights because for five dollars from
17:37
Speaker 1: ten to two am, I could just laugh.
17:40
Speaker 2: And so.
17:42
Speaker 1: There's something I know. But like there's something that happens.
17:46
Speaker 1: When you move, you realize how much you miss that.
17:49
Speaker 1: And if you feel isolated from the community you grew
17:52
Speaker 1: up in, you also realize how you need to build that.
17:55
Speaker 1: And so one of the parts of your books that
17:57
Speaker 1: I think your book, that I think is so beautiful
17:59
Speaker 1: is this invitation you invite people to create and design
18:04
Speaker 1: the community that they have been looking for and searching for.
18:07
Speaker 1: Because even if you grew up with one. It doesn't
18:10
Speaker 1: mean that's proximity. It doesn't mean that's the one you've
18:12
Speaker 1: been looking for. And so you mentioned Goddess Counsel. What
18:17
Speaker 1: was your mission statement with that project.
18:19
Speaker 2: God's Counsel started off as a potlook series in my
18:22
Speaker 2: apartment in Brooklyn. I didn't think it would become an organization.
18:25
Speaker 2: I didn't think it would become a business. It was
18:28
Speaker 2: completely by accident, and so it morphed. It's intention morphed.
18:32
Speaker 2: But eventually Goddess Counsel became a community for women seeking
18:36
Speaker 2: deep connections, healing, and joy. It became a safe space
18:39
Speaker 2: for us to unfold, to learn more about ourselves while
18:43
Speaker 2: in community and in sisterhood. It was an opportunity for
18:46
Speaker 2: us to forge deep bonds. I feel very passionately about
18:51
Speaker 2: offsetting the superficial nature that a lot of us engage
18:55
Speaker 2: in when it comes to relationships and instead go deep.
18:58
Speaker 2: I actually quote in the book something that Adrian mary
19:00
Speaker 2: Brown wrote an emergent strategy, which is this concept of
19:03
Speaker 2: going a mile deep and an inch wide instead of
19:05
Speaker 2: a mile wide and an inch deep. And so if
19:07
Speaker 2: you think about that as an analogy for relationships, it's
19:10
Speaker 2: better to have a few folks that you can go
19:13
Speaker 2: all the way with, that you can talk about everything with,
19:16
Speaker 2: and you can really really get to know, and that
19:18
Speaker 2: will allow you to feel safe enough to be seen
19:22
Speaker 2: instead of having, you know, just acquaintances that you talk
19:26
Speaker 2: about like work or what you're drinking or what you're wearing,
19:29
Speaker 2: and they don't know that you're actually sad, or you know,
19:32
Speaker 2: they don't check in on you, or you don't know
19:34
Speaker 2: when to check in on them, vice versa. And so
19:37
Speaker 2: I wanted that to be baked into the mission of
19:39
Speaker 2: GC because I wanted people to feel like they were seen,
19:42
Speaker 2: and because it was born in New York, and because
19:46
Speaker 2: it came out of me feeling completely invisible. I was like,
19:50
Speaker 2: there's no way that I'm the only person feeling this way.
19:53
Speaker 2: I know that other folks are feeling like this too.
19:55
Speaker 2: And the more I talked about it and the more
19:57
Speaker 2: transparent I was about my loneliness, where I realized like
20:01
Speaker 2: everybody was kind of keeping it a secret, the folks
20:04
Speaker 2: that were attracted to GC, it was like, you know,
20:05
Speaker 2: I haven't really talked about this because I feel like
20:07
Speaker 2: I was weird or I felt like something was wrong
20:09
Speaker 2: with me. I didn't understand why I couldn't meet people,
20:11
Speaker 2: and it's like, no, it's just kind of the fabric
20:14
Speaker 2: of being in a really big city, you know, especially
20:17
Speaker 2: New York. People have tunnel vision, and so it's nothing
20:20
Speaker 2: inherently wrong about the way that you are navigating. It's
20:24
Speaker 2: just the way that folks have to be in order
20:26
Speaker 2: to survive in a place like that.
20:28
Speaker 1: Well, I think to your point, you say in the
20:31
Speaker 1: book that many people crave this spirit of community but
20:34
Speaker 1: are not familiar with what it looks like or what
20:36
Speaker 1: it feels like. So, as you're creating this community for
20:41
Speaker 1: yourself and also now you're sharing time in Mexico City,
20:45
Speaker 1: You've moved several times since your New York experience, as
20:49
Speaker 1: you've built community in all these different places, what does
20:52
Speaker 1: it look like and feel like for you? Now?
20:55
Speaker 2: It's interesting because the more I kind of uproot and
20:59
Speaker 2: try life and new places, I'm like, Okay, well, let's
21:02
Speaker 2: see if I really know what I'm talking about. Let's
21:03
Speaker 2: see if I know how to implement these strategies. And
21:06
Speaker 2: primarily it's the way I seek community and engage with
21:11
Speaker 2: in community now has evolved based on how I am
21:14
Speaker 2: like I have completely transformed. Over the past few years,
21:17
Speaker 2: I went through my sat in return, I got a divorce,
21:20
Speaker 2: I moved to a new country, I wrote a book,
21:21
Speaker 2: and I've been in a deep contemplative practice that has
21:25
Speaker 2: forced me to sit with, well, what do I actually
21:28
Speaker 2: desire in connection now? Because when I was younger, I
21:32
Speaker 2: think that my relationships were filling some kind of void
21:35
Speaker 2: and that was not necessarily healthy because they were never
21:38
Speaker 2: going to be able to complete me. And so now
21:41
Speaker 2: that I feel like a whole person on my own,
21:44
Speaker 2: I'm like, well, the connections that I have are not
21:47
Speaker 2: to you know, escape in if that makes any sense.
21:51
Speaker 2: I'm looking to enrich the life that I already am
21:54
Speaker 2: in love with. And so now I am connected to
21:59
Speaker 2: people who are full within themselves as well, where we
22:02
Speaker 2: can co create together and we can bring our gifts together,
22:06
Speaker 2: and we're not codependent, and we're not avoiding ourselves by
22:11
Speaker 2: spending time together, or we're not like leaning into each
22:14
Speaker 2: other to avoid the parts of ourselves that are begging
22:18
Speaker 2: us to sit and reflect, you know. And so yeah,
22:22
Speaker 2: now a lot of my friends are just amazing. They're great,
22:25
Speaker 2: they have their own hobbies, They're exposing me to different things,
22:27
Speaker 2: They're treating me to the kind of love and care
22:31
Speaker 2: that was only going to find me once I knew
22:35
Speaker 2: what it was actually like, because I had to create
22:39
Speaker 2: it for myself first.
22:41
Speaker 1: There's this feeling it's hard for me to put into
22:43
Speaker 1: words when you feel like you found one of your people.
22:47
Speaker 1: It's like, I don't know if it's like, oh I
22:49
Speaker 1: knew you in a past life, or there's an ease
22:51
Speaker 1: to it. What is a word that it like? What
22:54
Speaker 1: word describes it for you? Is it like that they
22:57
Speaker 1: hold you, or what's the signal for you?
23:02
Speaker 2: I don't feel this often, but when I feel it,
23:04
Speaker 2: I know that something is happening, and it just feels kismet.
23:08
Speaker 2: It feels like we have arrived at this very moment
23:12
Speaker 2: for whatever reason, and I feel so at ease with you,
23:17
Speaker 2: and I know that this is not going to be
23:19
Speaker 2: the last time that we engage, like you and I
23:21
Speaker 2: met and now we're linked forever. It's an intuitive, gut feeling,
23:27
Speaker 2: and it doesn't feel like anxiety or butterflies are feeling
23:30
Speaker 2: overly excited. It just feels like there you are, like
23:34
Speaker 2: how you been, you know, like we're meeting for the
23:36
Speaker 2: first time, but also not really like it was a
23:39
Speaker 2: matter of time till we reunited again. And so I
23:41
Speaker 2: do kind of feel like it's a past life thing.
23:43
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a knowing. I like how you said that. So,
23:48
Speaker 1: speaking of the knowing, actually, in your book you open
23:51
Speaker 1: up about alignment as being the opposite of burnout for you.
23:56
Speaker 1: Can you tell me about a time where you were
23:58
Speaker 1: operating both of those spaces, in both alignment and burnout,
24:03
Speaker 1: and what you learned from each of those.
24:05
Speaker 2: Yes, I, towards the end of running Goddess Counsel was
24:11
Speaker 2: running off of fumes. Basically, I was existing purely for
24:15
Speaker 2: the sake of showing up for other people and completely
24:18
Speaker 2: deprioritize myself, and it presented for me as the embodiment
24:25
Speaker 2: of illness. I was breaking out in hives. I was
24:28
Speaker 2: not able to sleep, I was always anxious. I was
24:33
Speaker 2: starting to resent the business, which ironically was a wellness organization.
24:38
Speaker 2: It was all about making people feel good, and I
24:40
Speaker 2: was resenting the fact that I had to be there,
24:44
Speaker 2: and that's how I knew that it was not sustainable. Eventually,
24:47
Speaker 2: it got to the point where I couldn't even try
24:50
Speaker 2: if I wanted to. I was so unwell that I
24:52
Speaker 2: was like, if I keep showing up to this, I
24:54
Speaker 2: don't think like I'll be able to remain in my
24:57
Speaker 2: body and in my mind. And so how I knew
25:00
Speaker 2: that it was burnout. It had to be so extreme,
25:02
Speaker 2: and I don't ever want to get there again. And
25:05
Speaker 2: I know now I've embodied the signals that my body's
25:08
Speaker 2: going to, you know, make me aware of along the way,
25:10
Speaker 2: it doesn't have to ever get there. In terms of alignment, writing,
25:15
Speaker 2: this book was the first time in my life where
25:17
Speaker 2: I felt like I was in alignment for weeks and
25:21
Speaker 2: months on end. It just felt like a flow. It
25:24
Speaker 2: felt like I didn't have to think about it. I
25:27
Speaker 2: just knew that this is where I wanted to be.
25:30
Speaker 2: I was writing at like four point thirty in the
25:32
Speaker 2: morning till eight or nine, and so I started writing
25:36
Speaker 2: in the dark, and I just felt so in my
25:40
Speaker 2: soul like as I was writing, I oftentimes just felt
25:43
Speaker 2: like it was not Cat. It was the spirit of
25:47
Speaker 2: Cat typing away. And I had never connected with that
25:50
Speaker 2: kind of magic before. And so I know that it
25:54
Speaker 2: presents very differently for all of us, you know. I
25:57
Speaker 2: just I'm able to access that through writing. But everybody
26:01
Speaker 2: has their own flow and it's able to come through
26:04
Speaker 2: them by doing different things. But yeah, this process of
26:08
Speaker 2: writing the book, I think completely transforms me. And now
26:12
Speaker 2: I know for sure what that feels like, and moving forward,
26:17
Speaker 2: whether it's through writing or something else that presents itself,
26:19
Speaker 2: I'll know when I'm in the right place and when
26:21
Speaker 2: I'm aligned, because I'll have that feeling again.
26:24
Speaker 1: I love that you use the word flow, because I
26:27
Speaker 1: can imagine you've read a lot of Oprah too, But
26:29
Speaker 1: she says that flow is when your personality and your
26:32
Speaker 1: purpose are aligned, and so I can almost picture you
26:36
Speaker 1: at your computer writing away with those two parts of you.
26:40
Speaker 1: When I read the book. It reads that way. You
26:42
Speaker 1: can tell, oh, I'm glad, I'm glad. Yeah. But in
26:46
Speaker 1: terms of burnout, I want to ask you one more
26:49
Speaker 1: question about that, because you say that as a collective
26:52
Speaker 1: we are not well, and that we are experiencing societal
26:55
Speaker 1: shifts at a pace that many of us are having
26:58
Speaker 1: a difficult time keeping up with. You're touching on something
27:03
Speaker 1: that once again I don't quite have words for, but
27:06
Speaker 1: I actually talk about with my parents quite a lot,
27:08
Speaker 1: because in the neighborhood I grew up in, people had
27:12
Speaker 1: a lot of advantages in life, and there are a
27:16
Speaker 1: lot of people that are not doing well, and so
27:19
Speaker 1: to have those advantages in life and still not be
27:22
Speaker 1: doing well, I think really signifies that something is wrong.
27:28
Speaker 1: What do you think that is?
27:30
Speaker 2: I think it's a lack of care and society. I
27:33
Speaker 2: think it's multifaceted. Again, I think there are certain aspects
27:37
Speaker 2: of this conversation that we cannot control. It's just the
27:40
Speaker 2: way that society is formed that encourages a disconnect and
27:44
Speaker 2: encourages a catlessness that is not normal or how we
27:49
Speaker 2: inherently want to be with other human beings.
27:52
Speaker 1: Say more about that, like what's become normalized that you
27:56
Speaker 1: think we're struggling with.
27:58
Speaker 2: I think it's just the fact that we are disconnected
28:00
Speaker 2: from other people's pain, you know, Like I think people's
28:04
Speaker 2: pain is their problem, and aside from your pod of people,
28:09
Speaker 2: it's figure it out, figure it out on your own.
28:12
Speaker 2: It's it's not a collective worry. I think our society
28:15
Speaker 2: is so individualistic that your pain, your discomfort, your suffering
28:23
Speaker 2: is for you to figure out. Go to a yoga class,
28:26
Speaker 2: go write about it, go to a retreat, go to
28:28
Speaker 2: a therapist. Like that has nothing to do with me.
28:31
Speaker 2: That's your responsibility, and that is not okay. That's not okay.
28:36
Speaker 2: But everyone is so focused on surviving and making sure
28:41
Speaker 2: they're okay and that their immediate people are okay that
28:44
Speaker 2: I don't even think it's necessarily that people want to
28:47
Speaker 2: be so individualistic. I just don't know if they have
28:50
Speaker 2: the capacity, because it's so difficult to the point of
28:53
Speaker 2: what you're saying, like, even folks who have privileges are
28:55
Speaker 2: already struggling, And so if people with privileges are struggling
28:59
Speaker 2: and they don't have the bandwidth, then the people who
29:02
Speaker 2: don't have privileges absolutely don't have the bandwidth, and there
29:05
Speaker 2: are ripple effects to that, and so multiply that by
29:08
Speaker 2: millions and millions of people. I can see how we
29:10
Speaker 2: got here. But that's precisely the point. It's like, we
29:14
Speaker 2: have to start carrying again. And I really tried to
29:18
Speaker 2: touch on that in the book, because as somebody who's
29:21
Speaker 2: always felt a little too sensitive and who's always been
29:23
Speaker 2: tapped into the suffering of other people, for better or
29:27
Speaker 2: for worse, I've always known that that is not okay.
29:31
Speaker 2: That we can just turn around when somebody is begging
29:33
Speaker 2: us for help, or when there's somebody on the street
29:36
Speaker 2: who maybe has fallen and everybody's walking by its doesn't
29:38
Speaker 2: even care to, you know, help them get up, which
29:40
Speaker 2: I have literally seen with my own eyes. And so
29:44
Speaker 2: the bystander effect is a very real thing. And when
29:47
Speaker 2: we're in cities, like when we're in big cities, this
29:49
Speaker 2: is even more of a thing. I think that when
29:51
Speaker 2: you're in smaller towns, maybe this isn't such a prevalent issue,
29:55
Speaker 2: but when you're living in a big city, you can
29:58
Speaker 2: kind of just like be like, yeah, I don't I
30:00
Speaker 2: can't do it right now. I have to go to work,
30:01
Speaker 2: or I have to run back home to feed my kids,
30:03
Speaker 2: and this is just like not my thing right now.
30:06
Speaker 1: Yeah, Like I can barely take care of myself, how
30:08
Speaker 1: can I take care of you? There's a lot of
30:10
Speaker 1: that and a lot of it's valid too. We have
30:13
Speaker 1: talked like about the geography of it all, but in
30:17
Speaker 1: your book you also talk about how social media is
30:20
Speaker 1: a catalyst for that. Can you say more on that?
30:23
Speaker 2: Yes, well, I think social media has created a filter
30:29
Speaker 2: for us to view other human beings as numbers. We
30:32
Speaker 2: have now created social media as an opportunity to connect. Yes,
30:37
Speaker 2: but because there's marketing behind social media, and because everything
30:40
Speaker 2: is now measured, we are conflating numbers with impact and
30:46
Speaker 2: numbers with human beings, and that creates a distortion when
30:51
Speaker 2: it comes to how we perceive each other. One follower
30:55
Speaker 2: is not anything for you know, the algorithm, or for metrics.
30:59
Speaker 2: But neither's one hundred, neither's a thousand at this point,
31:02
Speaker 2: neitherre's five thousand. Because you're supposed to have millions. Everything
31:05
Speaker 2: has to be in mass for it to matter, because
31:09
Speaker 2: so often it is conflated with marketing and how can
31:13
Speaker 2: you get in the eye in front of as many
31:16
Speaker 2: eyes as possible? And that does not necessarily translate to
31:20
Speaker 2: impact and feeling and connection, And so I think that
31:27
Speaker 2: there is something to be said there. I'm not exactly
31:29
Speaker 2: sure what the solution is because social media doesn't seem
31:31
Speaker 2: to be going anywhere. Many of us use it for work,
31:35
Speaker 2: and that is a primary way to connect and communicate
31:38
Speaker 2: with people. But there has to be an integration of
31:41
Speaker 2: humanness again, And because social media platforms are evolving so
31:47
Speaker 2: much and so quickly, it almost feels like every time
31:50
Speaker 2: you start to learn how to do that, it changes again.
31:54
Speaker 2: Or you build an audience but they don't even see
31:56
Speaker 2: your posts anymore, because now it's not chronological or you
32:00
Speaker 2: have to pay to do it. It's even the people
32:02
Speaker 2: when they find you, they can't see you because you
32:04
Speaker 2: don't appear. And so you're constantly having to transform the
32:09
Speaker 2: way that you approach connection and communication. And that is
32:15
Speaker 2: part of the reason why I'm like, yeah, we just
32:17
Speaker 2: have to build physical communities where maybe like you communicate
32:22
Speaker 2: initially on social but you get off of social media
32:24
Speaker 2: as quickly as you can and you meet up in
32:27
Speaker 2: person so that you don't have to deal with that.
32:29
Speaker 2: It should only be just the touch point to find
32:32
Speaker 2: each other and then actually be in the energy of
32:36
Speaker 2: the other human beings, because that is ultimately what I
32:39
Speaker 2: think people are seeking and searching for when they're on
32:41
Speaker 2: social media as much as they are. But yeah, I
32:45
Speaker 2: don't know, no.
32:46
Speaker 1: Kat, I'm with you. I think we're in a high communication,
32:49
Speaker 1: low connection world right, Like we're reaching more people than ever,
32:53
Speaker 1: and yet we're more lonely than ever, and all the
32:55
Speaker 1: statistics back that up. I mean, there's this book called
32:58
Speaker 1: The Anxious Generation and by Jonathan hat and it talks
33:02
Speaker 1: about the rise of the phone based childhood, and he
33:05
Speaker 1: says that since twenty twelve, the time adolescents spend with
33:09
Speaker 1: their friends in face to face settings has dropped by
33:11
Speaker 1: fifty percent, and they're just spending way more time on
33:15
Speaker 1: their devices. You know, I don't know how many parents
33:18
Speaker 1: listen to this podcast, So this question is actually not
33:22
Speaker 1: like geared towards parents, but as a community, how can
33:27
Speaker 1: we better set an example for the younger generation about
33:31
Speaker 1: how important human connection is because I think like we're
33:34
Speaker 1: not able to crystallize how much we've lost.
33:38
Speaker 2: It's by leading. It's you have to lead by example
33:40
Speaker 2: if you're a parental figure or you are some kind
33:43
Speaker 2: of guidance in the lives of younger people, and you
33:45
Speaker 2: yourself are hyper connected and don't have deep connections, and
33:50
Speaker 2: what do they know about what that looks like or
33:53
Speaker 2: how can they model something that they don't know exists.
33:56
Speaker 2: And so we have to break out of the norm
34:01
Speaker 2: of scrolling on our phones and just expecting things to
34:04
Speaker 2: fall on our laps and really go out and put
34:07
Speaker 2: ourselves out there. And it looks different for all of us.
34:10
Speaker 2: You know, we are drawn to different ways of being
34:13
Speaker 2: with people. I know there are some people who are
34:15
Speaker 2: more extroverted, some people who are more introverted, who desire
34:18
Speaker 2: to be around people in different ways. Like there are
34:20
Speaker 2: literally clubs in New York now where you can just
34:24
Speaker 2: get wine and read with people, and you can just
34:26
Speaker 2: be with people and not speak. And there are also
34:29
Speaker 2: day parties now where if you don't want to go
34:31
Speaker 2: clubbing at night, you can go have a sober dance
34:34
Speaker 2: party in the morning. Because you're more extroverted. It manifests
34:38
Speaker 2: so differently for all of us. But you have to
34:40
Speaker 2: show up, you know. If you're like, oh, okay, drinking
34:42
Speaker 2: wine and reading a book in Simon sounds cool, Like
34:45
Speaker 2: you have to show up. You can't just say it
34:47
Speaker 2: sounds cool. You have to go get the book, sit down,
34:50
Speaker 2: look at people in the eye, and do something about it.
34:53
Speaker 2: And so I think that's what it is. It's just
34:56
Speaker 2: being brave. It's being brave and having the courage to
34:59
Speaker 2: be like, I'm going to do something different today, or
35:02
Speaker 2: if you find it today, you make a plan for
35:04
Speaker 2: Saturday whatever, and you put it in the calendar and
35:07
Speaker 2: you actually show up. You don't cancel, you don't make excuses.
35:10
Speaker 2: You push through that awkwardness of doing something new and
35:14
Speaker 2: not knowing how it's going to turn out, and you
35:17
Speaker 2: listen to that part of you that's saying, I want
35:19
Speaker 2: to go here, I'm curious about what my life will
35:22
Speaker 2: look like on the other side of this, and trust
35:24
Speaker 2: that it's for a reason. And the people that are
35:28
Speaker 2: younger than you and the folks that are looking to
35:30
Speaker 2: you for guidance are going to see that. And you
35:32
Speaker 2: don't even have to You don't have to explain what
35:35
Speaker 2: you're doing. You just have to lead by example and
35:37
Speaker 2: trust that that's doing a lot.
35:41
Speaker 1: I think you're one hundred percent right on that. Everything
35:44
Speaker 1: you're saying about our personal touch points and relationships, it's
35:48
Speaker 1: the same solution that's required for a societal solution, like
35:52
Speaker 1: as a community, we're so lonely. I saw a study
35:55
Speaker 1: from the do Good Institute about volunteering and it said
35:58
Speaker 1: that shortly after September eleventh and the terrorist attacks, the
36:02
Speaker 1: volunteer rate reached a historical high. It was twenty eight
36:06
Speaker 1: point eight percent for three straight years, and it's dwindled
36:09
Speaker 1: every year since then, and now we're bottoming out at
36:12
Speaker 1: a fifteen year low. So what does that signal to you?
36:17
Speaker 1: Do you think that our personal loneliness is connected to
36:21
Speaker 1: the societal disconnect that we're experiencing.
36:24
Speaker 2: Oh, absolutely, And that's why people say, like, to transform
36:27
Speaker 2: the world, you have to transform yourself first. You cannot
36:31
Speaker 2: expect to be in a society where people are connected
36:35
Speaker 2: and linked and feeling like the communal love is there
36:38
Speaker 2: if you don't feel it within yourself, if you don't
36:40
Speaker 2: know how to show yourself that love. And so in
36:43
Speaker 2: thinking about the fact that the volunteer rates were as
36:47
Speaker 2: high as they were after such a traumatic event in
36:50
Speaker 2: American history, I sit with like, well, it shouldn't have
36:53
Speaker 2: to take for us to go through something so painful
36:55
Speaker 2: to turn to each other. We shouldn't have to reach
36:59
Speaker 2: such a critical point in society where we are feeling
37:04
Speaker 2: despair to remember that we are the ones that are
37:09
Speaker 2: going to save each other, We're the ones that make
37:11
Speaker 2: each other feel better. I wish that we were able
37:15
Speaker 2: to connect with that truth, regardless of there having to
37:19
Speaker 2: be such a dark catalyst for that. And so even
37:23
Speaker 2: as I said, with just like the mental health crisis
37:25
Speaker 2: that's going on right now in the States in general,
37:28
Speaker 2: with loneliness, with a lot of people genuinely not wanting
37:32
Speaker 2: to be on the planet anymore, I'm like, well, we
37:36
Speaker 2: have to sit with that truth that those are individual
37:39
Speaker 2: people who are feeling that way, and yes, there is
37:41
Speaker 2: a part of this that is like they don't feel
37:43
Speaker 2: like they belong in a larger society. But what does
37:45
Speaker 2: it mean for us to pour that love into ourselves?
37:49
Speaker 2: How do we connect with what it means to foster
37:52
Speaker 2: care for our souls? You know, maybe it is getting
37:54
Speaker 2: off of your phone and go touch grass every single day.
37:58
Speaker 2: Maybe it is just like actually showing off for your body,
38:01
Speaker 2: moving your body every day, eating foods that make you
38:04
Speaker 2: feel good. Like it can start off as something so
38:07
Speaker 2: fundamental as just the physical, tangible habits that you have,
38:12
Speaker 2: and even that element is not necessarily as common as
38:16
Speaker 2: it should be in American society right now, and so
38:20
Speaker 2: all the solutions are different. But for me myself, I've
38:23
Speaker 2: had to sit with the fact that for a very
38:25
Speaker 2: long time I wasn't even doing those things for myself,
38:28
Speaker 2: and so I could see the correlation behind why I
38:31
Speaker 2: felt as ill as I did, and the fact that
38:35
Speaker 2: I didn't even know how to care for my vessel,
38:36
Speaker 2: and if my vessel was not necessarily operating at its best,
38:40
Speaker 2: how was I going to have the energy to go
38:43
Speaker 2: do new things? And to be around people and do
38:45
Speaker 2: all of that stuff if my nervous system was in shambles.
38:48
Speaker 1: You know, are you talking about like that true sense
38:51
Speaker 1: of belonging to yourself because you talk about prioritizing that
38:55
Speaker 1: in the book a lot.
38:57
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like I I didn't even know what it meant
39:01
Speaker 2: to belong to myself until like two years ago. I'm
39:05
Speaker 2: thirty one, and throughout that time I had so many
39:09
Speaker 2: thoughts about why don't I feel like I fit it
39:11
Speaker 2: in? And why can't I find these people? Why can't I
39:13
Speaker 2: do this? Why can't I do that? And I didn't
39:16
Speaker 2: even know who Kat was. Like fundamentally, I could not
39:21
Speaker 2: exist in the world by myself for too long without
39:23
Speaker 2: wanting to be like, Okay, I need to go find
39:25
Speaker 2: people to be around. And so I think that again,
39:30
Speaker 2: like a lot of the things I'm bringing up throughout
39:33
Speaker 2: this chat, it presents differently for us in terms of
39:37
Speaker 2: what it means to belong to yourself and what that
39:40
Speaker 2: journey looks like for you. Primarily, the thing that comes
39:43
Speaker 2: up for me is just sitting with yourself and getting
39:47
Speaker 2: through the awkwardness of yourself and coming to terms with
39:52
Speaker 2: the fact that, like I don't know myself, and that
39:55
Speaker 2: can be a little bit embarrassing, and that can be
39:56
Speaker 2: a bit shame inducing. But once you lean into it
40:01
Speaker 2: and you're like, well, I do want to get to
40:02
Speaker 2: know myself, and you show up for yourself every day
40:04
Speaker 2: and you're not embarrassed by some of those thoughts or
40:08
Speaker 2: by the confusion that is in your own head, then
40:13
Speaker 2: you can start to find clarity. And then once you're
40:16
Speaker 2: able to walk through the world and be like, yeah,
40:17
Speaker 2: I know who I am, I know what I like,
40:18
Speaker 2: I know what I don't like, I know where my
40:19
Speaker 2: boundaries are, I know what I'm open to, then you
40:23
Speaker 2: can be in community with people and feel safe to
40:26
Speaker 2: be in community with people and have it be for
40:28
Speaker 2: the right reasons as well. And so, yeah, that journey
40:32
Speaker 2: is not necessarily fun and it's not necessarily comfortable, and
40:36
Speaker 2: it's not something that anyone can save you from. It's
40:40
Speaker 2: no one else's work. It is literally just you and you.
40:44
Speaker 1: So do you think that if somebody listening to this
40:47
Speaker 1: is feeling like they constantly have friction in their friendships
40:51
Speaker 1: or friction in their lives, Really it's not about community.
40:56
Speaker 1: It's about finding yourself first.
41:01
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I can say yes, confidently, because I
41:04
Speaker 2: had to come to terms of the fact that that
41:05
Speaker 2: was my issue. You know, there were certain patterns that
41:08
Speaker 2: kept repeating in some of my friendships, and I was like, well,
41:10
Speaker 2: why is this happening? Why is this happening? And it's like, well,
41:13
Speaker 2: what are the roots of that friendship? When did you
41:16
Speaker 2: meet this person? What energy state were you in when
41:18
Speaker 2: you met this person? Oh? Okay, that is fundamentally why
41:22
Speaker 2: every single version of these relationships that aren't working out
41:25
Speaker 2: feel so similar, because you keep doing the same thing.
41:29
Speaker 2: And in my early twenties, for me, it was desperation.
41:33
Speaker 2: I was so desperate to be around people that I
41:35
Speaker 2: allowed anyone who gave me attention to be my friends.
41:38
Speaker 2: And that is not okay, because they would just do
41:42
Speaker 2: whatever and they knew that I would accept them. And
41:44
Speaker 2: eventually I had to stay with the fact that, like,
41:46
Speaker 2: you have to say that you're uncomfortable, you have to
41:49
Speaker 2: say no, you have to set a standard for the
41:51
Speaker 2: way that people treat you. And in doing that, I
41:54
Speaker 2: had to start all over because the friendships that I
41:57
Speaker 2: had built for years were all based on the fact
41:59
Speaker 2: that I was a dormat and that's not okay, And
42:02
Speaker 2: so now that I know myself, now that I'm able
42:05
Speaker 2: to be like, well, if you don't want to be
42:07
Speaker 2: my friend, because I've said a boundary, I'm so okay
42:10
Speaker 2: being alone. I have a million things that I love
42:12
Speaker 2: to do. Everything changes, Everything changes. The way people treat
42:16
Speaker 2: you as different, the way that you treat people as different,
42:20
Speaker 2: and the life that you're able to cochreate with people
42:22
Speaker 2: is based off of mutual respect and love.
42:26
Speaker 1: I want to ask you sort of a fun question
42:28
Speaker 1: about gathering, because, speaking of practice, you are so practiced
42:33
Speaker 1: at connecting with people and throwing gatherings. So are there
42:37
Speaker 1: any tips that you've picked up along the way that
42:40
Speaker 1: you think makes a gathering or real success.
42:45
Speaker 2: Ironically, I think folks think about gathering as something that
42:49
Speaker 2: takes place once you're together. And something that prea Parker
42:54
Speaker 2: in the art of gathering taught me was that you
42:56
Speaker 2: have to start planning the gathering long before anyone's in
42:59
Speaker 2: a phys space together. And that is, honestly, seventy five
43:03
Speaker 2: percent of the work is understanding why you're gathering, who
43:06
Speaker 2: you want there, what you want the energy of the
43:09
Speaker 2: space to be, how many people you want to be there,
43:11
Speaker 2: how you want to carry yourself. And so once you
43:15
Speaker 2: clarify that and then the people come together, you literally
43:19
Speaker 2: just have to exist and you have to trust that
43:21
Speaker 2: like all the planning you've already done, it worked out
43:24
Speaker 2: and it was for a reason. And so I think
43:27
Speaker 2: that that's just something we all have to really sit with,
43:29
Speaker 2: is like it's not always a matter of just like, oh,
43:31
Speaker 2: I know all these people, I want them to all
43:33
Speaker 2: be in the same room. You have to be like
43:34
Speaker 2: does this make sense, like personality types, the interests of
43:38
Speaker 2: these folks, like are they actually compatible? And once you've
43:42
Speaker 2: filter through things through compatibility and alignment, everything starts to
43:47
Speaker 2: make more sense. And it's not always about numbers, it's
43:50
Speaker 2: about intentionality and impact. If you have two people that
43:54
Speaker 2: are in a gathering with you, and you three are
43:57
Speaker 2: able to create a magical experience because you are aligned
44:01
Speaker 2: with intentions and with interests that are overlapping perfectly, that
44:06
Speaker 2: is going to have more of a ripple effect, not
44:11
Speaker 2: just with the folks that are in that room, but
44:13
Speaker 2: like the energy that they take into their other relationships
44:15
Speaker 2: compared to twenty people who are just standing around with
44:19
Speaker 2: a drink in their hand kind of being like, well,
44:21
Speaker 2: I don't know what to do, or I don't know
44:22
Speaker 2: what to say, or I don't know how to engage
44:24
Speaker 2: with these people because we're nothing alike. And so yeah,
44:27
Speaker 2: that's what I would keep in mind.
44:29
Speaker 1: I think that's really good advice. I want to ask
44:32
Speaker 1: you some rapid fire questions. So, what is an activity
44:37
Speaker 1: that you love doing solo gardening? What's an activity that
44:42
Speaker 1: you think you'd enjoy doing with other people but have
44:44
Speaker 1: never tried?
44:46
Speaker 2: Playing tennis?
44:48
Speaker 1: Ye, next time you come to LA, I'll play with you.
44:52
Speaker 1: I'm terrible, please.
44:54
Speaker 2: Yeah? Or pickleball too, like I want to try them
44:57
Speaker 2: so bad?
44:58
Speaker 1: Yeah, everyone likes pickle. Great at pickle Okay, what is
45:02
Speaker 1: the best thing that you've ever splurged on?
45:05
Speaker 2: My one way ticket to Mexico City to start Renula.
45:08
Speaker 1: What's a question that you love asking people?
45:11
Speaker 2: How's your heart today?
45:13
Speaker 1: What's a book that you've read that has changed your life?
45:16
Speaker 2: A people's History of the United States Ruined by Howard's Inn.
45:19
Speaker 1: I've never even heard of that.
45:21
Speaker 2: Oh, it's a ride. It is a ride.
45:24
Speaker 1: I love when people stump me. Okay, I'm going to
45:27
Speaker 1: read it. Question everything. Let me know when to stop.
45:31
Speaker 2: Stop.
45:33
Speaker 1: Okay, answer this question? Please? The question I ask myself
45:36
Speaker 1: every single day. That drives me is.
45:39
Speaker 2: What can I do today that will lead me to
45:45
Speaker 2: feel confident that I did everything I can do in
45:48
Speaker 2: this life.
45:50
Speaker 1: Ooh two, that's a good one.
45:52
Speaker 2: To live out my my destiny. I don't know when
45:56
Speaker 2: that day will be, but I'm completely motivated. More motivated
46:00
Speaker 2: by the fact that we literally don't know how long
46:02
Speaker 2: we're going to be here, and we all have a
46:04
Speaker 2: purpose and I try to figure out how I can
46:09
Speaker 2: express that purpose every single day.
46:12
Speaker 1: That's a good one. Cat, what's the smartest decision you've
46:16
Speaker 1: ever made?
46:17
Speaker 2: Getting a divorce and moving to a new country and
46:19
Speaker 2: writing this book?
46:24
Speaker 1: It was a snowball effect, literally starting.
46:30
Speaker 4: Over, Oh my god, before I press stop being honest,
46:39
Speaker 4: I appreciate your honesty.
46:40
Speaker 1: Before I press stop recording. Is there any parts of
46:43
Speaker 1: your book that I didn't touch on that you want
46:45
Speaker 1: to make sure you convey.
46:47
Speaker 2: I'd like to just say that this book kind of
46:50
Speaker 2: feels like a trojan horse. I wrote this book in
46:54
Speaker 2: hopes of pouring everything that I know about organizing and
46:58
Speaker 2: bringing people together, but really it was a book written
47:02
Speaker 2: out of a deep feeling that I have to remind
47:06
Speaker 2: people that they have what it takes to change the
47:09
Speaker 2: world around them. So often we are looking around hoping
47:13
Speaker 2: that somebody is going to do something that will finally
47:15
Speaker 2: make things better and that the leader will come around
47:18
Speaker 2: and we'll be like, we've been waiting for you, and
47:21
Speaker 2: it's just not what we need right now. We need
47:25
Speaker 2: everybody to tap in. We need everybody who feels something
47:28
Speaker 2: inside to listen to that thing, to trust that that's
47:32
Speaker 2: there for a reason, and to be a part of
47:35
Speaker 2: the new world that we all want. And so that
47:39
Speaker 2: is really the primary focus here. And yeah, although it
47:45
Speaker 2: is a book about building community, it's really about empowering
47:49
Speaker 2: the reader and reminding the reader that they are who
47:52
Speaker 2: we are waiting for.
47:54
Speaker 1: They are who we are waiting for. I was just
47:57
Speaker 1: about to say that side, thank you, thank you. Okay,
48:08
Speaker 1: you know what time it is. Today's a good day.
48:10
Speaker 1: To have a good day. I'll see you next week.