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Meet an Exotic Dancer Turned Dominatrix · Workplace Confessions: Behind Closed Doors

• 0:02
  Speaker 2: Welcome to Workplace Confessions Behind Closed Doors.
• 0:05
  Speaker 2: I'm Elsa Barbi.
• 0:06
  Speaker 2: And I'm Dawn Andrews.
• 0:08
  Speaker 2: We have been friends since sixth grade.
• 0:10
  Speaker 2: Somewhere between a car wash job, a few questionable boy choices, and 40 years of friendship, we became the kind of people who always want to know what's really going on, including at work.
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: Dawn spent 25 years as an employment lawyer digging into workplace drama from the inside out.
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: I built a long career in the beauty industry as a brand educator with a few TV cameos sprinkled in for fun.
• 0:33
  Speaker 2: We came up in very different industries, but we have the same passion.
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: Meeting new people and asking how they got their jobs, what they love, what they can't stand, and what happens behind closed doors.
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: Every episode, we talk to a new guest about their lived experience in the world of work.
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: And because our guests stay anonymous, they can spill the truth without the fallout.
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: We get into the choices they made, the tiny cruelties, the surprise kindnesses, and some of the moments that never make it into human resources reports.
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: Equal Parts informative and titillating.
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: This show serves up all the tea while honoring the incredible, complicated, often messy work people are doing across the industries and across the map.
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: Welcome to Workplace Confessions Behind Closed Doors.
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: Let's get into it.
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: Today's conversation may surprise you.
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: We're speaking with an exotic dancer turned professional dominatrix.
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: Our purpose was not necessarily to talk about sex, but to talk about power, consent, boundaries, and what happens when roles are clearly defined and when they aren't.
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: In her work, nothing happens without explicit agreement.
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: Expectations are negotiated, safety is paramount, and aftercare is non-negotiable.
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: Compare that to most workplaces.
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: This conversation today is explicit and not suitable for all audiences.
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: Normally, our guests are anonymous, but today's guest allowed us to share her identity.
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: We ask you to listen, not for shock, but for insight.
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: Typically, we start out by just asking you what was your very first job?
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: When did you first get a paycheck?
• 2:13
  Speaker: My very first job, I worked at a bagel shop and I was 15.
• 2:18
  Speaker: And yeah, I worked there for a couple months.
• 2:21
  Speaker: They ended up closing and going out of business, but that was my first job.
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: So tell us what you're doing now and how did you get from the bagel shop to what you're up to now?
• 2:31
  Speaker: I am a professional dominatrix, actually also a mortgage executive in do work for a wholesale bank, and I'm also an exotic dancer.
• 2:39
  Speaker: How did you get from the bagel shop to there?
• 2:42
  Speaker: Gosh, that is such a 48-year question.
• 2:45
  Speaker: Well, if you know anything about real estate, you know that it's up and down.
• 2:50
  Speaker: I started in real estate when I was 18.
• 2:54
  Speaker: I got my sales license and I worked my way up.
• 2:57
  Speaker: I worked at a title company and then for a broker, and then I was a processor and then an underwriter and then an outside sales rep.
• 3:04
  Speaker: And then I bought four houses.
• 3:05
  Speaker: And then 2006, 2007 happened.
• 3:09
  Speaker: And I was one of the people who opted in to do the 80-20 interest-only type loans on all of the homes I bought.
• 3:17
  Speaker: I was definitely buying my own bullshit and got way over-leveraged, lost everything, had a, you know, crisis.
• 3:26
  Speaker: What am I going to do?
• 3:27
  Speaker: And then out of a moment of desperation and panic, I told my partner, I'm going to go work at the strip club because we need money.
• 3:35
  Speaker: And I thought, you know, he would be like, no, let me save us, you know, the whole, oh, you know, save, save us, be my savior.
• 3:42
  Speaker: And he was like, foot in my ass out the door.
• 3:45
  Speaker: Go make money, honey.
• 3:46
  Speaker: And so I ended up starting as a dancer when I was 29 in San Diego and then migrated over to Vegas.
• 3:54
  Speaker: And I did that for several years.
• 3:56
  Speaker: I worked in Las Vegas at Spermant Rhino and I would travel dance.
• 4:00
  Speaker: I wouldn't fly over there five days at a time and then come home for 10 days and then fly over for five days.
• 4:07
  Speaker: And I did that until 2015.
• 4:09
  Speaker: And then I went back into the mortgage business and worked my way up as a processor.
• 4:14
  Speaker: And then I worked for a big company called Guaranteed Rate and became one of their top processors.
• 4:20
  Speaker: And then the rates changed again.
• 4:22
  Speaker: And I went back out into the field and was like, I need to be a sales rep again.
• 4:25
  Speaker: And while I build up my pipeline, I would go back and work at the club on the nights and on the weekends to supplement my income until my pipeline would take over.
• 4:35
  Speaker: Because in mortgage and real estate, there's a long lag time of working on loans before you get paid on them.
• 4:40
  Speaker: You don't get paid hourly or you don't get paid a wage typically if you're in sales.
• 4:45
  Speaker: You only get paid when the loan closes.
• 4:47
  Speaker: So there's 60 to 90 days where you're not being paid while you're still working on loans.
• 4:52
  Speaker: So I always had, you know, those are my two careers, sex work and real estate.
• 4:56
  Speaker: And when the last dip happened in 2022, I let my mortgage career go for a little bit.
• 5:04
  Speaker: I was really frustrated from starting over and starting over and starting over.
• 5:08
  Speaker: And I knew I was getting to be an older dancer and that, you know, I'm 40 in my mid-40s.
• 5:14
  Speaker: I can't dance forever, obviously.
• 5:16
  Speaker: So I needed something that would take me into my older years.
• 5:19
  Speaker: And that's when I realized I've always loved kink.
• 5:23
  Speaker: I've always loved creative sex.
• 5:25
  Speaker: I've always loved the darker side of sex.
• 5:28
  Speaker: I've always been really intrigued and into that and think it's very fun.
• 5:32
  Speaker: So I was like, you know what?
• 5:33
  Speaker: I'm gonna learn how to be a dominatrix.
• 5:35
  Speaker: And all of my years of being a mother and a sales executive and a dancer have all really helped me prepare me for that role.
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: What's the training like to become a dominatrix?
• 5:48
  Speaker: It's kind of like I would have likened it to a tattoo artist where it's an art form and you really need to find a mentor.
• 5:55
  Speaker: Sure, you could buy a machine and you could just wing it, right?
• 5:59
  Speaker: But would you be very good?
• 6:00
  Speaker: No.
• 6:01
  Speaker: So yeah, you can buy a writing crop or a whip and wing it.
• 6:04
  Speaker: And would you be probably be very good?
• 6:06
  Speaker: No.
• 6:07
  Speaker: There's a lot of psychology behind it.
• 6:09
  Speaker: I started out with my kink career in 2018.
• 6:13
  Speaker: I met a client at the club who would take me in the champagne room and spank me and me and my friend and pay us a thousand dollars.
• 6:20
  Speaker: And we would get spanked all night and we would just experience the different types of called impact play.
• 6:26
  Speaker: And I would notice the following week, if he didn't come in or a few days had passed and I'd had a very stressful week in mortgage, I missed the spankings.
• 6:35
  Speaker: And I'm like, man, I've had a rough week.
• 6:38
  Speaker: I can't wait to see so-and-so and get get my spankings, you know.
• 6:41
  Speaker: And I thought, wow, that is so interesting that like being stressed out, that that's a relief to experience that.
• 6:48
  Speaker: And that's when I started to realize the psychology of the healing nature of what BDSM can do for a person.
• 6:54
  Speaker: And when I realized that, I thought, you know, this is like so special and I really want to learn more.
• 7:01
  Speaker: So in 2018, I started reading books.
• 7:03
  Speaker: I took a Shibari class.
• 7:05
  Speaker: That's the rogue tying.
• 7:06
  Speaker: And I just kind of started exploring it, watching movies, talking to customers more about it.
• 7:13
  Speaker: It was a slow warm-up.
• 7:15
  Speaker: And at the beginning of my journey, it was just more for personal reasons, like in my romantic relationships.
• 7:21
  Speaker: And I would try to find partners online that would play with me that way.
• 7:24
  Speaker: I did encounter a lot of predatory men, a lot of men that would use the veil of, oh, I'm dominant, let me teach you.
• 7:33
  Speaker: Um, but really it's a veil for them to be abusive towards women and exploit them.
• 7:38
  Speaker: And after I would say years of trying to find an appropriate partner, I realized sometimes when you can't find it, you have to be it.
• 7:46
  Speaker: And I realized there are not enough responsible dominance.
• 7:50
  Speaker: And I think that I need to learn how to do this and be this so that not only can I recognize the right person in someone else to play with, but also because I need to understand and learn for myself.
• 8:01
  Speaker: And also if I can offer this to people because I know how healing it is, it would be a really great blessing, you know.
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: Uh, was there ever a time when you were transitioning into being a dominatrix that did you leave the mortgage industry 100%?
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: Or did that shift?
• 8:18
  Speaker: I did leave the I left the mortgage industry in 2022.
• 8:21
  Speaker: The company that I worked for, I was about to have my best, most successful month of my life.
• 8:26
  Speaker: Um, I was about to close 24 loans in one month, which as a bank account executive, we had appraisals ordered on 24 loans and we had appraisals back on 22.
• 8:36
  Speaker: We lost our funding.
• 8:38
  Speaker: The margins dropped at that time, the rates spiked, and the margins for income dropped, and our bank lost all of its funding.
• 8:45
  Speaker: And so I what, you know, and it so this was the third or fourth time in my life that the rug had been ripped out from under me.
• 8:53
  Speaker: And I was so frustrated, I just said, I give up, I'm done.
• 8:56
  Speaker: I'm gonna, I'm gonna put mortgage down for a couple of years and just completely dive into my creative endeavors.
• 9:02
  Speaker: You know, I started in OnlyFans, I was working full-time at Pacers in San Diego, and then that's when I decided I'm gonna be a dominatrix.
• 9:10
  Speaker: And that's when I really started to really get serious about learning how to make that a career.
• 9:15
  Speaker: I was doing a lot of photo shoots at this time for fun, and I was shocked because I'm in my late 40s.
• 9:22
  Speaker: Why does anybody want to see what I look like, you know, undressed or whatever?
• 9:26
  Speaker: But surprisingly, it's been very supportive.
• 9:29
  Speaker: I'm finding the older I get, the more men are interested in my sexuality.
• 9:33
  Speaker: And I just find that so interesting because it's not what we're taught or sold when we're little, and so it's been really fun embracing this in my older years.
• 9:41
  Speaker: Sounding that I think it's conditioning, you know.
• 9:48
  Speaker: I met a young man yesterday who, you know, he said that he always has liked older women and he was 24 and I danced for him, and you know, he spent 45 minutes with me, and you know, I'm for I'm double his age.
• 10:02
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 10:03
  Speaker: So yeah.
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: Do you have a sense as to as to why it is?
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: I mean, is it just that we're we're finally growing out of our cultural conditioning and times are changing, or do you think there's there's there's more to it?
• 10:17
  Speaker: There's more to it.
• 10:17
  Speaker: I believe, I truly, truly believe this, and this has taken two to three years of learning femdom, feminine domination, that men are naturally submissive.
• 10:29
  Speaker: I truly believe that.
• 10:31
  Speaker: And that when they meet a woman in power, in her power that is more dominant and leading, that they they feel safer.
• 10:38
  Speaker: I believe, you know, we come from women.
• 10:41
  Speaker: We're born to women, we're born to mothers.
• 10:43
  Speaker: Mothers are your primary caretaker and your, you know, you tell your children what to do, you coach them, you guide them, you form them.
• 10:50
  Speaker: And so from the time we're born, we are meant to be led by women.
• 10:55
  Speaker: And so when a man meets a woman who is leading, it is comforting and it is rewarding to them in ways that soothe their soul.
• 11:05
  Speaker: And I think that all of the conditioning that we get in the world today is fighting that.
• 11:10
  Speaker: And I think when they when it's finally accepted and leaned into, that's when that's when men and women can really be happy together.
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: When you first got curious about domination, you were finding all of these uh quote unquote DOMs who really weren't trained and they were just in it to to find women to abuse.
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: Like, how do you square that experience with your understanding now that really men are just looking for to be led?
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: Like what goes on there?
• 11:40
  Speaker: Well, again, it's I believe it's patriarchal conditioning and it's fear of being controlled by a woman.
• 11:45
  Speaker: So when a man is afraid of being controlled by a woman, in their you know, primal narrative, it's better or easier for them to, oh, I'm powerful, I'm this.
• 11:53
  Speaker: But actually, it's a response to being afraid of women controlling them.
• 11:58
  Speaker: You know, men who don't have discipline can be really taken down a bad path by lust and desire and all of these things.
• 12:08
  Speaker: And they're afraid of that, and they know that because it is powerful, because I believe ultimately they know that if they were to give in fully to a woman, it would be very hard for them to get out of that dynamic.
• 12:17
  Speaker: I believe this is why men are guarded of their hearts.
• 12:21
  Speaker: This is why they treat women that they're sexually attracted to horribly sometimes because they're afraid of what that power can do to their lives.
• 12:29
  Speaker: And, you know, if a man follows a bad woman down a path, we've seen what that can do.
• 12:34
  Speaker: So it's my belief that in response as a preemptive response to that fear, they just take on the role of the aggressor or the controller.
• 12:43
  Speaker: But what would be the best part about your job that you would say?
• 12:47
  Speaker: Oh my gosh, there's so many things about my job that I love.
• 12:50
  Speaker: It's so cathartic to put on a leather skirt and, you know, leather stiletto or stilettos, black stilettos, red lipstick.
• 13:00
  Speaker: You know, I put on my war battle gear and I grab a crop or a whip and I step into the dungeon and I'm I'm in charge.
• 13:09
  Speaker: I am gonna do what the fuck I want, and you're gonna listen to me.
• 13:13
  Speaker: And to to be in that energy and to be powerful, it's like I'm taking my life back over for one full hour, and I'm the complete boss bitch, and I am in charge, and you own that, and it's so cathartic because there's so much in this world that we can't control and so many things going on.
• 13:29
  Speaker: And but it for that one hour, I am in complete control.
• 13:33
  Speaker: Every I'm powered.
• 13:34
  Speaker: There's a flow of power, it's giving me their energy, and I'm I'm sucking it in like you know, like I am powerful, and it's just kind of like a performer going on stage and like everyone's throwing money at you, and you're like the shining golden whatever, and like you're the star.
• 13:52
  Speaker: It's that energy where you're sucking up in all this energy and you're shining brightly and in your full power, and then you leave, and that person had a beautiful experience where they submitted fully, so they got to turn their brain off for one hour, put all of their problems aside for one hour.
• 14:07
  Speaker: Kind of like when you go to a yoga class and they're ordering you around, you don't have to think, you're just doing what they're telling you.
• 14:13
  Speaker: There's there's a peaceful meditative, you know, space in that.
• 14:19
  Speaker: And so it's a container for that.
• 14:21
  Speaker: And so when we're in the dungeon, it's cathartic for me and the sub in that way.
• 14:24
  Speaker: They where and what is the dungeon?
• 14:27
  Speaker: Uh there's a dungeon I work out.
• 14:29
  Speaker: It's in San Diego, it's in Mission Valley, it's privately owned.
• 14:32
  Speaker: It looks like an office building.
• 14:33
  Speaker: You don't know what it is from the outside, so it's very private.
• 14:36
  Speaker: So we don't disclose the location until you've paid your deposit and it's the day of your session.
• 14:41
  Speaker: And then we will let you know, and then you meet us there.
• 14:43
  Speaker: And it's I rent a room from the owner.
• 14:45
  Speaker: So she has two rooms, and I rent a room for $60 an hour, and we rent the space.
• 14:50
  Speaker: Like a recording studio.
• 14:52
  Speaker: It's kind of like if you were to have a photography session, you know, it's set up, you know, and you use the space and then you clean it properly, and then you leave.
• 14:59
  Speaker: I also work out of a professional dungeon in Los Angeles called Sanctuary.
• 15:03
  Speaker: It's a more well-known commercial dungeon, and so that's more publicly known.
• 15:07
  Speaker: And so when you go there, it's down the street from the police station.
• 15:11
  Speaker: It's actually in Long Beach, and and she owns the entire building.
• 15:14
  Speaker: And she's been around.
• 15:15
  Speaker: Her name is Mistress Cyan, and she's been around for over 35 years.
• 15:20
  Speaker: And so that also has three very well, you can see them in my social media.
• 15:26
  Speaker: You can see some of the glimpses of what the dungeon looks like, but you rent that room as well.
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: And so if someone was coming for the first time to meet you, what what is it like?
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: What do you what how do you set the boundaries and what does it look like in the space?
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: I'm so curious.
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, do you do?
• 15:42
  Speaker: So you set all the boundaries before.
• 15:44
  Speaker: So I have a website and you can read all of my do's and don'ts and what you know, we call like what our kinks or what our fetishes is.
• 15:50
  Speaker: So, like, for example, oftentimes people ask me for things I don't offer or things I don't do.
• 15:55
  Speaker: And so it's important for a new DOM to know what her boundaries are and what she likes and to not accept sessions for things they don't like.
• 16:03
  Speaker: I don't know how vulgar I can get on this, but a lot of people ask for for FT, which is full toilet.
• 16:08
  Speaker: So that means they want me to pee and poop on them.
• 16:11
  Speaker: And I'm not into that.
• 16:12
  Speaker: So I'm okay with golden showers, but I'm not okay with scat, which is, you know, number two.
• 16:18
  Speaker: So when people approach me, I let them know, please refer to my website, please read all my rules.
• 16:23
  Speaker: Oftentimes they want what's called like, they'll say body worship.
• 16:27
  Speaker: That means they want to eat me out.
• 16:28
  Speaker: I'm like, no.
• 16:30
  Speaker: No, I am not an escort.
• 16:33
  Speaker: I do not offer or perform sexual services.
• 16:35
  Speaker: I am not touching your genitals unless it's CBT, which is cock and ball torture.
• 16:40
  Speaker: I will tie them up and hit them, but I'm not, you know, I'm not performing sex acts.
• 16:44
  Speaker: That is not what this is.
• 16:46
  Speaker: So all of these things are pre-negotiated.
• 16:48
  Speaker: So, for example, like someone will say, I want to do cross-dressing.
• 16:51
  Speaker: And I'm like, okay, great.
• 16:52
  Speaker: Do you have your own feminine feminine clothing?
• 16:55
  Speaker: You know, yes, I do, or no, I don't.
• 16:57
  Speaker: And then I'm like, okay, well, you know, you can go to Amazon and order some things, or you can do this or that.
• 17:02
  Speaker: You know, we'll talk about all of these things before we get into our session.
• 17:06
  Speaker: If the communication drags on, there are a lot of people who are time wasters.
• 17:12
  Speaker: I would say 90% of the people that reach out to us just want to chat with us and waste our time and are jerking off while they're talking to us andor getting off on the communication alone.
• 17:23
  Speaker: So it's very brief and short.
• 17:25
  Speaker: What are you into?
• 17:26
  Speaker: Okay, great.
• 17:26
  Speaker: We pick the day and time.
• 17:28
  Speaker: They send a deposit.
• 17:29
  Speaker: After they've sent the deposit, then I will resume communication and we will talk about boundaries, limits, safe words, what they want to be called, what they want to call me, what they prefer I wear, what, you know, what vibe they're looking for, because I'm crafting a personal session for every person that I meet with.
• 17:46
  Speaker: It's an art form.
• 17:47
  Speaker: It's okay, am I the mean teacher?
• 17:50
  Speaker: Am I mean mommy?
• 17:51
  Speaker: Am I strict authoritarian?
• 17:53
  Speaker: Am I the, you know, tease and denial, sexy stripper you can't touch?
• 17:57
  Speaker: You know, it's like every every dynamic is different and every fetish is different.
• 18:02
  Speaker: And if it's not going to be fun for me, I'm not gonna do the session.
• 18:05
  Speaker: So my session yesterday, he he wanted strict heel worship, foot worship, and bondage.
• 18:11
  Speaker: And so I crafted an entire hour session out of that where he was just tied down and I just put my feet all over his face and stepped in his mouth.
• 18:18
  Speaker: And it was that's fun for me, right?
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: What other things do people get wrong about your profession?
• 18:25
  Speaker: I would say what you just said is the number one most that we're escorts or that we have sex with our clients.
• 18:31
  Speaker: I can't tell you how many times people who just don't know say, oh, so you sleep with your clients, you know, or oh, so so is side.
• 18:40
  Speaker: It's like, no, it's just like just like if you go to get a lap dance.
• 18:45
  Speaker: Are is she jerking you off?
• 18:47
  Speaker: No.
• 18:48
  Speaker: Are you is she gonna give you a blowjob?
• 18:51
  Speaker: No.
• 18:51
  Speaker: What's the point of a lap dance then, right?
• 18:53
  Speaker: Well, the point is to have a sensual experience.
• 18:55
  Speaker: Do sometimes people come in their pants?
• 18:57
  Speaker: Yeah, sometimes they do.
• 18:58
  Speaker: Is that the point of the dance?
• 19:00
  Speaker: No, it's not.
• 19:01
  Speaker: The point is to have a connected human energetic exchange experience, to have a sensual experience.
• 19:07
  Speaker: Same with what I do.
• 19:08
  Speaker: The goal is to have a sensual power exchange, energetic healing experience.
• 19:13
  Speaker: Do sometimes people come?
• 19:15
  Speaker: Yes.
• 19:15
  Speaker: Is that the goal of the session?
• 19:17
  Speaker: No, it's not.
• 19:18
  Speaker: Is it the goal of some people when they book a session?
• 19:21
  Speaker: Sometimes it is.
• 19:22
  Speaker: And I let them know if that is your main and primary goal, we are probably not a match.
• 19:26
  Speaker: I am not a kink distributor.
• 19:29
  Speaker: I am not, you know, a Taco Bell drive-thru, get your rocks off.
• 19:33
  Speaker: That's not what this is for me and to me.
• 19:35
  Speaker: This is an art form.
• 19:36
  Speaker: And if it's not, if I don't feel the reverence in that when I'm setting up the session and the appointment, then I, you know, we get an you get an intuition and you're like, yeah, you're not, you're not the right client for me.
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: So those are all the great things about what you actually provide as a service to men and women, I would assume.
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: Men and women.
• 19:56
  Speaker: I don't have any women clients, but I have had a few people reach out to me for mentorship.
• 20:01
  Speaker: And so I feel like, yes, women are my clients in the way that I try to I do.
• 20:06
  Speaker: I am a TikToker.
• 20:07
  Speaker: I have a big TikTok following, and I try to share my experiences so that they can see through my lived experience what is possible for them when they have their own sovereignty and empowerment.
• 20:18
  Speaker: Um, what would be something like what would be the worst part about your job that you just don't like?
• 20:24
  Speaker: The absolute worst part of my job is disrespect by men, by them wasting my time, by them expecting access for nothing, for nothing given for the subs that come to me that oh, oh mistress, I want you to peg me.
• 20:39
  Speaker: Oh, mistress, I want to be your sissy foot slave, I want to be your sissy slut.
• 20:43
  Speaker: I want you to pick me up.
• 20:44
  Speaker: Like, Mike, what are you offering me?
• 20:46
  Speaker: I'm offering you my body.
• 20:47
  Speaker: I'm like, I'm sorry to tell you, but you're a man.
• 20:50
  Speaker: That means nothing to me.
• 20:51
  Speaker: I have 500 men in my inbox offering me their body.
• 20:54
  Speaker: That means bullshit to me.
• 20:55
  Speaker: The we're in a material world.
• 20:57
  Speaker: My time is money.
• 20:58
  Speaker: Offer me money, get out of my inbox, leave me alone, don't message me.
• 21:02
  Speaker: There's like so many men who, because of my title, believe that they have entitlement to my time in my body and my services for nothing off of it.
• 21:11
  Speaker: Who are the people who really benefit from the experience?
• 21:14
  Speaker: I'm I believe every man benefits from this experience, but the ones that have really embraced it are a lot of men in military.
• 21:25
  Speaker: I'm in San Diego, so obviously there's going to be a lot of military, a lot of men that are in traditional corporate positions of management, a lot of teachers I've noticed.
• 21:36
  Speaker: And let's see, some law enforcement.
• 21:40
  Speaker: It's $400 an hour.
• 21:48
  Speaker: And then my online services are the same.
• 21:51
  Speaker: My time is my money, and it's what I make at the club as well.
• 21:53
  Speaker: It's $100 for 15 minutes.
• 21:55
  Speaker: So if you want to text, video chat, it's kind of the same for everyone.
• 21:58
  Speaker: Though I do offer my mentor.
• 21:59
  Speaker: Mentorship to women at a half price.
• 22:01
  Speaker: So 30 minutes of mentorship online is $99.
• 22:04
  Speaker: I decide to work five hours a day every day.
• 22:07
  Speaker: That's what I put on myself.
• 22:09
  Speaker: So I work 25 hours a week.
• 22:10
  Speaker: So I do my mortgage job in the locker room.
• 22:13
  Speaker: And then if I have a session, I'll run down to the dungeon and then go back to the club.
• 22:16
  Speaker: So I run my life that I work five hours a day.
• 22:19
  Speaker: The goal is to make $400 an hour for those five hours.
• 22:21
  Speaker: And that's just that's where I'm setting the bar.
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: If you could wave a magic wand and change one thing about your industry, what would it be?
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: Cultural respect.
• 22:34
  Speaker: Elaborate, keep going.
• 22:36
  Speaker: The way that we're seen by the greater culture is that we're slots, that we're, you know, we sleep with our customers, that it means immediately that we sleep with them.
• 22:46
  Speaker: I just that just drives me crazy because the women that I know that do what I do, and I have a lot of friends.
• 22:51
  Speaker: You know, I have 20 friends that are dominatrices.
• 22:54
  Speaker: Most of them are either married, they're celibate, or maybe they're maybe they're polyamorous with a couple, or maybe they're lesbian.
• 23:04
  Speaker: Like there's it's so not what you think.
• 23:07
  Speaker: They are not, none of them are sleeping with their clients.
• 23:10
  Speaker: They have more discernment than they've ever had about physical relations with other people.
• 23:15
  Speaker: If you actually calculated the percentage of people who are allowed into our lives versus who approach us, it's like negligible, right?
• 23:22
  Speaker: It's like 0.0001% or something.
• 23:25
  Speaker: Yet the greater public thinks we're whores or escorts or we sleep around, or it's just, it's so it couldn't be further from the truth.
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: This is the general arc of an experience with you.
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: Walk us through how does it how does it all wrap up?
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: What's the caretaking part of it all?
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: How does it work?
• 23:43
  Speaker: Yeah, so they'll come in, they'll meet me at the door, I'll be dressed, I'll have my outfit.
• 23:47
  Speaker: Oftentimes I'll take like what they've said that they wanted, and I like write down the pattern of what I'm gonna do in my mind.
• 23:54
  Speaker: You know, it's like it's like choreographing a dance or choreographing a yoga class.
• 23:59
  Speaker: You know, it's like, okay, I'm gonna start with, you know, first they're gonna undress and greet me and finish paying if they need to finish any remainder, they need to use the restroom or, you know, just kind of get settled.
• 24:10
  Speaker: Then they get undressed.
• 24:12
  Speaker: And then I will always bring in like a towel or something, just because it is a public space.
• 24:17
  Speaker: I don't want their naked body on the floor.
• 24:20
  Speaker: So I will bring in a towel and then I kind of make them lay their towel out like it's a yoga mat.
• 24:24
  Speaker: And then we connect.
• 24:26
  Speaker: They're on their, they're down on the ground.
• 24:29
  Speaker: I'm normally sitting in a chair.
• 24:30
  Speaker: I normally have a crop in my hand.
• 24:32
  Speaker: They're kissing my feet, thanking me for seeing them.
• 24:35
  Speaker: We kind of go over the basics, like, okay, like you're my pet today, or you're gonna do everything I tell you.
• 24:41
  Speaker: You know, we just whatever the dynamic is gonna be, this is kind of the intro.
• 24:44
  Speaker: Like, this is your name, this is my name, this is what we're gonna, like, this is what I'm gonna do to you today, this is how you'll serve me today.
• 24:50
  Speaker: Sometimes there will be like feet kissing to like honor the reverence of like me being in a superior position to them.
• 24:58
  Speaker: Then oftentimes one of my favorite things to do is I'm a I'm a small woman, I'm five feet tall, 115 pounds.
• 25:04
  Speaker: So I like to ride them around on their back if they're strong enough, like a pony.
• 25:08
  Speaker: And I like to kick them in the sides, you know, like giddy up.
• 25:11
  Speaker: And I like to put them in like predicament situations.
• 25:15
  Speaker: So, like there's a big bed in the dungeon, and I like to make them crawl around the bed and I say, Don't, don't you fucking drop me?
• 25:22
  Speaker: If you fucking drop me, you're gonna get it.
• 25:24
  Speaker: And so I stress them out, right?
• 25:26
  Speaker: They need to be stressed out.
• 25:27
  Speaker: So then they go around the, they'll always do this, and this is my favorite part.
• 25:30
  Speaker: They go, they go around the bed and then they can't turn around, it's too small of a space.
• 25:34
  Speaker: Then they have to like back up slowly, and then this is where I get in their ear, and I'm like, I told you, don't you fucking drop me?
• 25:39
  Speaker: And then they're like, you know, they're stressed out, they're nervous.
• 25:42
  Speaker: How do I fix this?
• 25:43
  Speaker: Oh my god, I can't drop her.
• 25:44
  Speaker: If I drop her, I'm in big you know, deep trouble.
• 25:46
  Speaker: So they have to back up slowly, and they always do the same.
• 25:49
  Speaker: It's so funny.
• 25:49
  Speaker: I can see the gears turning in their head, like, oh my God, what do I do?
• 25:53
  Speaker: So it's like basically playing chicken with them.
• 25:56
  Speaker: Like you're just kind of stressing them out, and then you you mix up a little bit of sensuality and a little bit of mean, and then a little bit of, okay, that was a good job, you know, a little bit here and there.
• 26:05
  Speaker: You you want to play with all the emotions, like, you know, like a musical, you know, high notes, low notes, you know, mean, nice, a little bit of comforting, but not too much.
• 26:15
  Speaker: But you want to make sure that that they're stressed out and they're problem solving a little bit.
• 26:21
  Speaker: And then also most of it, they're not thinking.
• 26:23
  Speaker: So you're just kind of putting them through kind of like obstacle course in a way, whether it's emotional or physical.
• 26:30
  Speaker: And then there's sometimes there's a release at the end, you know, if I deem them that they've earned it.
• 26:35
  Speaker: I tie them up, I spank them, I hit them.
• 26:38
  Speaker: You know, one time I did a circus-themed thing where we did party games and I, you know, threw popcorn in their mouth like a seal and made them bark like a seal.
• 26:46
  Speaker: I like to do a lot of animal stuff.
• 26:48
  Speaker: So I like to make them bark and pretend they're my dog and then bark at the door if there's an intruder.
• 26:52
  Speaker: And then if they don't bark loud enough, you know, smack them a little bit and say, How is that protecting me?
• 26:57
  Speaker: You're supposed to protect me.
• 26:58
  Speaker: Bark louder like you mean it, you know, make them do that.
• 27:01
  Speaker: Some people like electrical plays, so I'll electrocute them with the little wand, which is so funny when I see it on Instagram and they're like, This is a facial wand.
• 27:09
  Speaker: I'm like, you can also use that to zap balls.
• 27:12
  Speaker: That's also really fun.
• 27:13
  Speaker: I do a lot of barehanded spanking.
• 27:15
  Speaker: They like the intimacy of that.
• 27:17
  Speaker: I'm a small woman again, so I'll sit up on the bed and have them drape their body across my lap and like they'll start bracing up for impact.
• 27:23
  Speaker: And I'm like, let your body go.
• 27:26
  Speaker: Stop resisting me.
• 27:27
  Speaker: And then they and then I spank, and then I they start.
• 27:31
  Speaker: I'm like, nope, release the stress, stop bracing because that means they're overthinking.
• 27:36
  Speaker: So it's like, no, stop thinking.
• 27:38
  Speaker: I told you to stop thinking.
• 27:39
  Speaker: You're not supposed to think right now, you're just supposed to accept all of this.
• 27:42
  Speaker: So it's really a mental game of like not bracing, not being in control, not thinking, not being in charge, and men are not used to that.
• 27:51
  Speaker: You know, normally there's like three to four events happening, right?
• 27:55
  Speaker: Like maybe there's spanking, there's cropping, vampire gloves, there's pony riding, there's okay, you know, a position one, position two, you know, worship my feet.
• 28:04
  Speaker: So there's normally like three or four events per hour.
• 28:06
  Speaker: So like maybe 15 to 20 minute segments of each event happening.
• 28:11
  Speaker: And then, you know, the impact, you kind of have to warm up to the impact.
• 28:16
  Speaker: And then the impact happens, and then you kind of let down, you know, kind of like a movie arc, right?
• 28:20
  Speaker: There's a there's a peak, and then you have to kind of slow things down a little bit to let them get them back in their body and like kind of wrap up the session.
• 28:28
  Speaker: Then if whatever's been going on, whatever's been happening, we'll take the last five minutes to clean up and everything.
• 28:34
  Speaker: But when it's over, you know, we kind of come back to that beginning position where I'm sitting and they're at my feet.
• 28:40
  Speaker: And maybe I'll like rub the back of their head or tell them you did a good job today, you are invited to serve again.
• 28:46
  Speaker: Maybe I'll let them kiss my feet or give me a little bit of a foot rub just to kind of like show reverence, or maybe the the session yesterday, he cleaned up all the toys, you know, that we use like the crop and stuff.
• 28:57
  Speaker: We clean everything up.
• 28:58
  Speaker: So he cleaned them all up before the session was over.
• 29:01
  Speaker: Or if I need to move furniture in any way, they do that for me.
• 29:04
  Speaker: I don't, I don't lift a finger.
• 29:06
  Speaker: And then, you know, I walk them to the door and say goodbye.
• 29:09
  Speaker: And if say it wasn't a particularly intense, really facing shame-based scenarios, I would say that would be like a forced bisexual session or maybe a feminization session where men are really facing cultural shaming type kinks.
• 29:24
  Speaker: I will ask them to please call me later that day or night and check in with me and let me know that they're okay.
• 29:31
  Speaker: Because that aftercare is very important.
• 29:33
  Speaker: You know, they can shut down.
• 29:35
  Speaker: Like when you're excited about something, it seems like a good idea, but then maybe you have a release and all of a sudden you're like, they, you know, post not clarity, whatever.
• 29:45
  Speaker: It's like, this was bad.
• 29:46
  Speaker: I should not have done that.
• 29:47
  Speaker: I'm a bad person.
• 29:48
  Speaker: And a lot of men in this world really experience that.
• 29:51
  Speaker: So it's really about holding the container a little longer and letting them know like, thank you for sharing that vulnerable side of your.
• 29:58
  Speaker: I'm gonna cry.
• 29:59
  Speaker: It's so brave of them.
• 30:01
  Speaker: Yeah, it's so brave of the ones that do accept to explore this.
• 30:06
  Speaker: And I want to make an, I want to honor that.
• 30:08
  Speaker: It's so brave of a man to explore these things that they're so culturally shamed for exploring and embracing that side of themselves that some of them really do shut down afterwards.
• 30:19
  Speaker: And that breaks my heart because they're really opening up and showing a beautiful side of their soul to me.
• 30:24
  Speaker: And I get to witness that, and that is like really special.
• 30:28
  Speaker: I don't think that a man, most men can share that side of themselves with their significant partner because of the shame and the way they may feel they're judged.
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 30:38
  Speaker: So I don't think I think they have to explore them outside of the relationship.
• 30:42
  Speaker: And I wish more women understood that that's not about them.
• 30:45
  Speaker: Yeah, you know, because it's not.
• 30:47
  Speaker: It's like, it's like these are deep issues, you know.
• 30:51
  Speaker: I really believe in like radical acceptance, and that's really it, you know.
• 30:57
  Speaker: And it's hard to do when you're living day-to-day with somebody because we all have these little like masks we put on for our partners to keep the peace or whatever is going on, you know, you have your daily life and all of that.
• 31:09
  Speaker: So sometimes people just need, and you know, maybe, maybe in a significant partner relationship, you know, maybe one hour a week we put all of that aside and we role play to be different people.
• 31:18
  Speaker: Maybe that's the way that, you know, just like little kids do when we're little, I'm the boss today, you're the boss today.
• 31:24
  Speaker: Tomorrow you're the queen and I'm the king.
• 31:26
  Speaker: You know, maybe, maybe inviting role play in once a once a week and you just mess around with the different dynamics.
• 31:33
  Speaker: You know, I'm the teacher today and you're the student, you know, and you know, I'm bad and I did this today.
• 31:37
  Speaker: And I feel like if you invited that into your intimate intimate life in ways that, like, you know, I was really mad at you that you didn't unload the dishwasher when I told you to, like, five times.
• 31:47
  Speaker: Okay, give me a thinking about it then.
• 31:49
  Speaker: And then you laugh about it, and then you can like, you know, well, you're gonna get it later for that.
• 31:54
  Speaker: You know, if you invite these little moments of like fun play, then it's like, okay, well, now I'm gonna leave my clothes out of the hamper on purpose, you know.
• 32:02
  Speaker: Like you can you can invite these ways to deal with these issues in a more positive, fun way that also invite the honesty of like that really fucking pissed me off, you know.
• 32:13
  Speaker: Okay, well, let's deal with it in a fun way.
• 32:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: Um, what are some of the benefits that you see in your clients over time having gone through these difficult experience, but cathartic, transformative experiences with you?
• 32:28
  Speaker: It's more of an integration, you know?
• 32:29
  Speaker: They're they're more confident, they're more relaxed, they're more accepting and at ease.
• 32:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 32:40
  Speaker 2: What in all the jobs you've had, and let's throw the mortgage industry into it, because you spent a lot of time doing that.
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: What are what are some of the crazy wild things that you've seen in your in your work?
• 32:53
  Speaker: The shutting down in the mortgage business, the shutting down in uh when COVID happened, you know, we had files, files and files and files that we had to stop funding.
• 33:02
  Speaker: People couldn't buy homes.
• 33:03
  Speaker: Like we just shut funding off one day.
• 33:05
  Speaker: So that was that was wild.
• 33:07
  Speaker: A whole company losing its funding in source overnight.
• 33:12
  Speaker: Obviously, the 20, 2006 crash, you know, I watched bank after bank of my competitors go out of business and shut down within days of each other.
• 33:23
  Speaker: That was sh shocking and horrifying.
• 33:27
  Speaker: You know, my entire career collapsed overnight and I was owning four homes.
• 33:31
  Speaker: Like, what am I gonna do with these four houses?
• 33:33
  Speaker: And my whole industry just collapsed, and now my partner also has no job.
• 33:36
  Speaker: Like, that was insane.
• 33:38
  Speaker: As a dancer, I saw a woman have a seizure on the pole and fall off the pole, and the paramedics had to come in and paddle her.
• 33:47
  Speaker: That was crazy.
• 33:48
  Speaker: You know, a few of my friends in the in the business have passed away.
• 33:53
  Speaker: One of my friends I used to travel dance with, she uh killed her son and committed suicide.
• 33:58
  Speaker: That was awful.
• 34:01
  Speaker 2: Brutal.
• 34:02
  Speaker: It's a very high, it's a very dynamic industry.
• 34:06
  Speaker: So there are, you know, dozens of these types of stories from all of us, all walks of life.
• 34:12
  Speaker: I mean, I've given lap dance to people who just got out of prison and hadn't touched a woman in 20 years.
• 34:18
  Speaker 3: Wow.
• 34:18
  Speaker: One of my regular customers is 92 years old and takes Viagra before he comes in and comes in like every week.
• 34:25
  Speaker: And he's a like retired police officer.
• 34:29
  Speaker: So it's like, I don't know, like yesterday there was a client who had been sexually molested at 13 by a 50-year-old woman.
• 34:37
  Speaker: And so, you know, he's talking to me about that.
• 34:40
  Speaker: And so, I mean, the gamut is I've seen multiple bisexual sessions where we're forced bisexual, you know, where two men are forced to play with each other with blindfolds on.
• 34:52
  Speaker: So those are pretty wild.
• 34:55
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah.
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: How do you protect yourself from getting so involved with every single story you just said?
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: Like, how do you protect yourself?
• 35:05
  Speaker: I do a lot of spiritual work.
• 35:07
  Speaker: Um, I do a lot of yoga.
• 35:09
  Speaker: I have a psychic I call once a month.
• 35:11
  Speaker: One of my best friends is a psychic.
• 35:13
  Speaker: I dream journal every day.
• 35:14
  Speaker: There's a lot of integration work.
• 35:16
  Speaker: I have a very calm, grounded life outside of my work.
• 35:20
  Speaker: So, like, if I'm ever on a dating app, I mean, I'm not anymore and I wouldn't be forever.
• 35:24
  Speaker: But when I was, they'd say, like, oh, what are your hobbies?
• 35:26
  Speaker: And like, my hobbies are watching documentary on the TV with my four animals, like, and eating good food and like laughing and doing yoga.
• 35:35
  Speaker: Those are my hobbies because my work is so exciting.
• 35:38
  Speaker: I can't like I need to balance that.
• 35:44
  Speaker 2: Some things that people get from you that they can't get anywhere else in their lives.
• 35:52
  Speaker: I'd say a non-judgmental, open, fun sexual experience, you know, fun.
• 35:58
  Speaker: I'm there's only one of me.
• 36:01
  Speaker: I mean, you know, so all of the years of work and love and spirituality that I hold an open, non-judgmental space for someone, I can't, you know, and there's there's only one of me.
• 36:12
  Speaker: So that's very unique experience.
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: I was there ever a situation where that you were in during the session that you felt unsafe and how did you get out of it?
• 36:23
  Speaker: Yes.
• 36:24
  Speaker: One of my very first sessions that I did privately with someone, you know, so at the very beginning, a lot of like the lower quality of clients will hit up new DOMs because their boundaries are not as strong, right?
• 36:36
  Speaker: So they, oh, they see a new DOM come on the scene and they all come pounding down her door.
• 36:40
  Speaker: So you're kind of dealing with the garbage pile at first.
• 36:43
  Speaker: And so the very first private session I had, the man had horrible breath, like bad body odor, like he smoked a lot and he was asking for things during the session that I had already not agreed to.
• 36:57
  Speaker: And so, like all of these little mini moments, and then I there was someone at the dungeon and I was ultimately safe, but you just get that feeling of like this person does not respect me.
• 37:07
  Speaker: And so, like, I just wanted to get through the session fast.
• 37:09
  Speaker: And then after the session was over, he ended up emailing me like, this was wrong, this was wrong, this was wrong, like you shouldn't have done this.
• 37:17
  Speaker: And I'm like, you're not submissive, you're looking for an escort, but you found me attractive and wanted to exploit my boundaries.
• 37:24
  Speaker: Like, don't message me again and like don't ever contact me again because I'm not here for that.
• 37:30
  Speaker: Like, you can just feel the buttons, and it actually scared me off of this job for another year.
• 37:36
  Speaker: I postponed diving into it because of that experience scared me so bad.
• 37:39
  Speaker: I took another year before I went back into it.
• 37:42
  Speaker: And so the first year of me being a professional, I only saw a handful of people and read books.
• 37:47
  Speaker: I didn't go back into the dungeon again with someone for like a year later.
• 37:51
  Speaker: And then I got more professional training through Damiana Chi.
• 37:55
  Speaker: I signed up for her course December before last.
• 37:59
  Speaker: And I, it's like a very six-month-intensive certification course.
• 38:03
  Speaker: I think it's one of the only certification courses for Dominatrix.
• 38:06
  Speaker: And so having a group of Dom sisters in community, I now have 20 Dominatrices in my phone that are my friends.
• 38:16
  Speaker: I've been to Dominatrix conventions, we share stories, you start to learn that you know more than you think you know, that you're pulled into this career, you know, whatever your life circumstances are.
• 38:26
  Speaker: And you just have to trust your own intuition.
• 38:29
  Speaker: That's what my mentor just would say to me again and again.
• 38:32
  Speaker: You have your instincts from dancing, you know what to do.
• 38:36
  Speaker: Don't question yourself.
• 38:38
  Speaker: And so, you know, now I feel more stronger.
• 38:41
  Speaker: And I have a I have a lot of friends.
• 38:43
  Speaker: So it's like, you know, if someone messes with me, they're in trouble.
• 38:48
  Speaker 2: Where where people can find you?
• 38:50
  Speaker 2: Where can our listeners?
• 38:51
  Speaker: Oh yes.
• 38:52
  Speaker: I have a website, dominacatielinks.com.
• 38:55
  Speaker: They can also find me on TikTok or Instagram, Domina Katie Links.
• 38:59
  Speaker 2: Excellent.
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: If someone's thinking about entering into this career, this type of career, what would be the one thing that you can advise them on?
• 39:08
  Speaker: That it's a slow process.
• 39:10
  Speaker: It's slower than you think.
• 39:12
  Speaker: It is not a lot of money, there's a lot of cultural judgment.
• 39:17
  Speaker: That be very careful about going publicly online about who you are and what you're doing, because if the if you don't get the money and the whatever you think you're gonna get out of it, like it's gonna, you're ruining your reputation online forever.
• 39:34
  Speaker: And you cannot unwind that.
• 39:36
  Speaker: You cannot change that.
• 39:38
  Speaker: You will not make the money you think you're gonna make.
• 39:40
  Speaker: You are you're not gonna say, I'm a Dom, and then like 20 customers are gonna come at you at once.
• 39:45
  Speaker: It's not gonna be like that.
• 39:46
  Speaker: It's gonna be five guys say peg me for free, five more guys say, uh, you know, waste your time, call you, prank, call you, jerk off while they're talking to you on the phone.
• 39:55
  Speaker: Like it's so much nonsense, it's almost not worth it.
• 39:58
  Speaker: Like, you really have to be serious before you go public and maybe play around in your private life first before you decide to do this as a profession because it's very hard to go back.
• 40:10
  Speaker: It's like being a porn star.
• 40:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 40:12
  Speaker 2: I was gonna ask you if you've along the way, have you lost, like have family members disowned you?
• 40:20
  Speaker 2: Have friends abandoned you because of their misunderstandings about what you do, or I'd say a lot of that happened when I was dancing.
• 40:29
  Speaker: There were some friends that I had in the past that those friendships have dropped off.
• 40:34
  Speaker: And I think it's because of the going back to dancing in my 40s that they were maybe embarrassed or like, oh wow, that's kind of embarrassing that you're being a dancer in your 40s.
• 40:43
  Speaker: And so like those friendships have kind of dropped off.
• 40:46
  Speaker: But I just dove deeper into my friendships with the people in my work.
• 40:50
  Speaker: So I'm deeper in now with dancers and you know, dominatrices.
• 40:56
  Speaker: I re- I I posted, I did, I did a bunch of reels where I went to Home Depot in my Dominatrix outfit and I like filmed some stuff, you know.
• 41:04
  Speaker: And one of those reels was seen by another Dominatrix in San Diego, and then she realized I was in San Diego, and she came to meet me at the club one day, and we just stroke the most amazing friendship.
• 41:18
  Speaker: And like we talk all day, every day.
• 41:21
  Speaker: We're gonna be running this dungeon together.
• 41:23
  Speaker: Like, she is my, I call her my life partner, my soulmate.
• 41:27
  Speaker: Like, we just have the best friendship.
• 41:29
  Speaker: And I think we both were feeling isolated in our careers individually.
• 41:33
  Speaker: And so when we met, and you know, we can, oh, remember, you do you know about this guy?
• 41:38
  Speaker: Oh, yeah, he messaged me too.
• 41:39
  Speaker: And oh yeah, that guy's a waste of time.
• 41:40
  Speaker: And like, you know, we can, it's such a niche career that there's not really a lot of people I can talk to on the daily about the frustrations of what I do, but with her and I, you know, we can together and it's really cathartic.
• 41:52
  Speaker: Our friendship is really strong.
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: Well, thank you so much for sharing your story with us.
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: You've officially joined the ranks of the brave and the bold.
• 42:05
  Speaker 2: That's it for this week's confession.
• 42:07
  Speaker 2: We've laughed, cringed, and maybe questioned our own career choices.
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: Big thanks to our anonymous guests for keeping it real and reminding us that behind every job title is a story worth telling.
• 42:18
  Speaker 2: If you've got a workplace confession of your own, we're all ears.
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: Hit us up at our email address.
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: And don't forget to subscribe, rate, and share.
• 42:26
  Speaker 1: Your support helps us keep the secrets flowing.
• 42:29
  Speaker 2: Until next time, keep your badge clipped, your coffee strong, and your stories wild.
• 42:34
  Speaker 2: This is Workplace Confessions Behind Closed Doors.