Latest / Rosters to Rings Podcast / Building a Blue Devil with Duke GM Binuk Kodituwakku

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Building a Blue Devil with Duke GM Binuk Kodituwakku · Rosters to Rings Podcast

0:04
Speaker 1: Welcome to Rosters to Rings. I am your host, Dad Levine,
0:08
Speaker 1: and we have an exceptional show lined up. Joining us
0:10
Speaker 1: today is the recently appointed general manager of Duke Football,
0:13
Speaker 1: Banuk Coda Chuaku. A native of Sri Lanka and Australia,
0:17
Speaker 1: Banuk has spent the last decade revolutionizing roster construction through
0:21
Speaker 1: data and strategy. Before arriving at Durham, he served as
0:25
Speaker 1: the head of analytics for the Adelaide Crows in the
0:27
Speaker 1: Australian Football League. Since joining Duke in twenty twenty three,
0:32
Speaker 1: his leadership in NIL strategy and recruiting has been instrumental
0:36
Speaker 1: in the Blue Devil's historic success, helping the program to
0:39
Speaker 1: eighteen victories over the last two seasons and its first
0:42
Speaker 1: outright ACC championships since nineteen sixty two. A graduate of
0:47
Speaker 1: the University of Western Australia and Duke's Fuqua School of
0:50
Speaker 1: Business and a prestigious McGowan scholar, he has become a
0:54
Speaker 1: leading voice and navigating the evolving landscape of revenue sharing
0:57
Speaker 1: and collegiate sports management. Banuk willcome to Rosters to Rings.
1:01
Speaker 2: Thank you thanks for having me that what's.
1:04
Speaker 1: A pleasure having you on. But look our time honored
1:07
Speaker 1: tradition is to we ask every single person who comes on,
1:10
Speaker 1: how did you fall in love with sports? What is
1:12
Speaker 1: your sports passion origin story?
1:15
Speaker 2: Great question. I think it's growing up in Australia my dad.
1:21
Speaker 2: So we moved to Australia when I was two years
1:23
Speaker 2: old and from Sri Lanka, and I think the best
1:26
Speaker 2: way that we found to assimilate into Australian culture was
1:30
Speaker 2: to really get embedded in sports. And my dad had
1:32
Speaker 2: played a lot of cricket in Sri Lanka. He actually
1:35
Speaker 2: played for the Sri Lankan national team. And then so
1:39
Speaker 2: I got involved in cricket, early soccer, Australian rules football,
1:43
Speaker 2: and just fell in love with a sense of community.
1:45
Speaker 2: Sport really gave me a sense of belonging and an
1:48
Speaker 2: ability to fit in. So yeah, it was those feelings
1:51
Speaker 2: that I think carried with me my whole life, and
1:54
Speaker 2: I knew that I wanted to make a career out
1:55
Speaker 2: of it.
1:56
Speaker 1: So I'm going to take a risk here as someone
1:58
Speaker 1: who didn't grow up with cricket it but my understanding
2:01
Speaker 1: is Sri Lanka and Australia are two of the powerhouses.
2:05
Speaker 1: How did your allegiance lie when you're growing up.
2:08
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, Sri Lanka is a lot better when I
2:11
Speaker 2: was growing up than they are now. But I would
2:13
Speaker 2: always probably support Sri Lanka. But I'd support Australia whenever
2:17
Speaker 2: they played anyone else. But Australia was a powerhouse. They
2:20
Speaker 2: were unbelievable. They were the greatest team. And I think
2:23
Speaker 2: they lost a game from ninety nine to two thousand
2:26
Speaker 2: and five or something crazy like that. A lot of
2:28
Speaker 2: Australian wins.
2:29
Speaker 1: You know, That's how most of us in the United
2:31
Speaker 1: States grew up as baseball fans. You had your team
2:34
Speaker 1: you loved, and then everyone also despised the Yankees. It
2:37
Speaker 1: was the thing that tied every baseball fan together year
2:40
Speaker 1: either loved the Yankees or hated them. But one of
2:42
Speaker 1: the things in researching your background which was fascinating to
2:45
Speaker 1: me was when you wrote your law honors thesis, you
2:49
Speaker 1: talked about you really explored the NCAA was an in
2:53
Speaker 1: violation of the Sherman Anti Trust Act by preventing student
2:56
Speaker 1: athletes from making money from their likeness and then low
2:59
Speaker 1: and bel Did you ever envision that you would be
3:02
Speaker 1: eventually responsible for being the very person negotiating those deals
3:06
Speaker 1: that allowed college athletes to actually get paid.
3:10
Speaker 2: No, I mean that was crazy the way that that's
3:13
Speaker 2: worked out. So in twenty thirteen, I was looking for
3:15
Speaker 2: a topic for my thesis. I wanted it to be
3:18
Speaker 2: sports related, and I was talking with my advisor. We
3:21
Speaker 2: were going down the rabbit hole of either doing something
3:24
Speaker 2: on agents and collective bargaining or this college this nil stuff,
3:29
Speaker 2: which back then wasn't called nil. It was actually came
3:33
Speaker 2: to light because of a basketball player who was at Kansas,
3:36
Speaker 2: Ben Macklamore, ended up getting drafted to the Sacramento Kings.
3:40
Speaker 2: He made a comment about not having enough money to
3:43
Speaker 2: eat and you know how hard it was whilst he
3:46
Speaker 2: was at college. So that really piqued my interest and
3:49
Speaker 2: then I dove into the research and Yeah, it was
3:52
Speaker 2: impossible to envision that that piece of work would eventually
3:57
Speaker 2: be my career.
3:59
Speaker 1: It's an incredible story. It's just foreshadowing of how you
4:03
Speaker 1: had you applied your passion but also your intelligence and
4:06
Speaker 1: your training to what is now a career pursuit, which
4:10
Speaker 1: is just wonderful. And so diving a little bit deeper
4:12
Speaker 1: into your legal training at the University of Western Australia,
4:16
Speaker 1: how do you think that has impacted your knowledge of
4:19
Speaker 1: roster analytics athletic contracts. How has that impacted your career.
4:24
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm always grateful that I did complete my law degree.
4:27
Speaker 2: I remember when I was in my first year, in
4:30
Speaker 2: my early classes, I knew I didn't want to be
4:32
Speaker 2: a lawyer because there were some people that just loved
4:34
Speaker 2: the law, they loved reading cases, and I knew that
4:36
Speaker 2: I'd never be the best in that field because I
4:38
Speaker 2: just didn't have that passion for the law like they did.
4:41
Speaker 2: And I wanted a career in sport. And you know,
4:43
Speaker 2: there was some early talks about, oh, should I leave
4:45
Speaker 2: my law degree and just go do something in finance
4:47
Speaker 2: and then find my way into sport. But I'm glad
4:49
Speaker 2: I think it was my mum that told me to
4:51
Speaker 2: stick with it because the negotiation skills, the contract analysis
4:55
Speaker 2: skills have really helped me along this career. And then
4:58
Speaker 2: just also whilst I was doing my law degree, I
5:02
Speaker 2: worked at a or help set up a sports agency
5:05
Speaker 2: and being able to have that flexibility really gave me
5:09
Speaker 2: some insight onto the other side of the fence that
5:11
Speaker 2: I'm on now. And all those experiences have kind of
5:14
Speaker 2: culminated into what I hope i'd bring to the table
5:17
Speaker 2: here at deck.
5:18
Speaker 1: But okay, I imagine you get the same question. I
5:20
Speaker 1: get a lot, which is from students asking what classes
5:23
Speaker 1: should I take? What major should I pursue to get
5:26
Speaker 1: a chance to work in sport? And what I've always
5:29
Speaker 1: found is there's no specific course level course work. But
5:32
Speaker 1: you want to learn how to communicate well, both written
5:35
Speaker 1: and verbal. You want to have analytical skills, and it's
5:38
Speaker 1: those critical thinking ability to think on your feed and
5:41
Speaker 1: to deliver salient arguments. Whether you pursue a law degree
5:45
Speaker 1: or you pursue an MBA. You did both, But I
5:49
Speaker 1: don't know that there's a specific formula. Have you ever
5:51
Speaker 1: found that when you get asked those questions? How do
5:54
Speaker 1: you answer that for burgeoning students who aspire to work
5:57
Speaker 1: in sports?
5:58
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's pretty similar to how you answer it as well.
6:01
Speaker 2: I think is just getting a broad knowledge base and
6:03
Speaker 2: understanding some of the broad topics that you'll need to
6:07
Speaker 2: learn in sport, even if it's not in a sports
6:09
Speaker 2: specific context. So, like you mentioned, the communications skills, contract skills,
6:14
Speaker 2: marketing skills, finance analysis skills, economics like all of those
6:19
Speaker 2: can be applied to a sporting context. So Yeah, I
6:23
Speaker 2: don't think you have to study a sport management degree.
6:25
Speaker 2: I think you can study something that's more generalist and
6:29
Speaker 2: then really apply that knowledge to the specific area and
6:34
Speaker 2: sport that you want to work in.
6:35
Speaker 1: Well, if you're not the person who's producing all the information,
6:38
Speaker 1: you have to be able to aggregate and synthesize it
6:40
Speaker 1: and then distill it down to sailing and thoughts to
6:43
Speaker 1: impact your decision making. I think there's a lot of
6:45
Speaker 1: different academic disciplines that afford you that latitude if you
6:49
Speaker 1: want to pursue that. So you made a few jumps
6:52
Speaker 1: early in your career before joining sports You mentioned that
6:56
Speaker 1: you ran a consultancy in an agency. I also want
6:59
Speaker 1: to just to dive in briefly into your time working
7:02
Speaker 1: for sports Bet and Points Bet. What did you learn
7:06
Speaker 1: there that you have been able to apply when you
7:08
Speaker 1: then ultimately got employed by the Adelaide Football Club.
7:12
Speaker 2: Yeah, so those opportunities were great because I never so
7:16
Speaker 2: In Australia. Sports betting has been legal for decades and
7:19
Speaker 2: I'd never engaged in it, even throughout university where my
7:23
Speaker 2: friends were into it, I never really got into the
7:25
Speaker 2: sports betting side. I really enjoyed the roster construction and
7:29
Speaker 2: the deeper level thinking about sports. But then those opportunities
7:32
Speaker 2: arose and I knew that I needed to develop an
7:35
Speaker 2: analytical skill set and how to model. And it was
7:38
Speaker 2: actually at those places where they've got such sophisticated models
7:43
Speaker 2: that are obviously for a betting context, but it helped
7:46
Speaker 2: me learn some really good modeling techniques. And I'm not
7:49
Speaker 2: a great code or anything by any means. And now
7:52
Speaker 2: the kid I mean now with AI, but even previously
7:54
Speaker 2: the kids coming out of university would run rings around me.
7:57
Speaker 2: But just being able to understand and how sports analytics
8:02
Speaker 2: models work helped me then become a conduit between you know,
8:06
Speaker 2: really strong data scientists and then non technical stakeholders like coaches,
8:10
Speaker 2: general managers, CEOs, and that made me indispensable at the Crows.
8:14
Speaker 2: So it was really those two experiences that helped me
8:18
Speaker 2: get my grounding in sports analytics.
8:20
Speaker 1: If you will, you know, I think listeners may be
8:23
Speaker 1: surprised to hear how often professional sports teams are actually
8:27
Speaker 1: accessing people who have worked for these betting sites. The
8:30
Speaker 1: betting sites, by and large were well ahead of sports teams.
8:33
Speaker 1: Maybe they still are in terms of their analytical skill
8:36
Speaker 1: sets and so we are constantly trying to pry people
8:39
Speaker 1: away from that arena to join us and really to
8:42
Speaker 1: try to accelerate the development on the analytics side.
8:45
Speaker 2: But okay, as.
8:45
Speaker 1: You've gone from those sports betting sites to Adelaide and
8:50
Speaker 1: now to do what evolutions have you seen in the
8:53
Speaker 1: models that you're using to help predict talent acquisition, contract
8:58
Speaker 1: analysis in the whole.
9:00
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean they're getting more and more sophisticated. Initially,
9:03
Speaker 2: when I started at Adelaide, we were just doing some
9:07
Speaker 2: very elementary, you know, regression analysis, and that really helped
9:11
Speaker 2: us do some early predictive stuff. But then you know,
9:14
Speaker 2: with the advent of our shiny apps, we were able
9:17
Speaker 2: to build out a trade kind of tool where it
9:21
Speaker 2: graded every trade proposal that we got that we were
9:23
Speaker 2: able to use live on draft night. And then, you know,
9:26
Speaker 2: so that got really sophisticated. And the head of data
9:29
Speaker 2: science at the Adelaide CROs now, he's brilliant. I actually
9:32
Speaker 2: met him at Points Bed and I knew that my
9:34
Speaker 2: first week at Adelaide we needed to hire him. So
9:37
Speaker 2: he's done a great job there and the models that
9:40
Speaker 2: he creates now predicting our future draft picks and the
9:45
Speaker 2: success of a player is phenomenal given how I suppose
9:49
Speaker 2: the dirty that data is. It's not very clean because
9:51
Speaker 2: in Australian US football you draft out of high school.
9:54
Speaker 2: So the work he's done there has been phenomenal. And
9:58
Speaker 2: then now you know at Duke, it's great, Like we
10:02
Speaker 2: use a company. You might be familiar with them, that
10:05
Speaker 2: Big League Advantage obviously baseball, but they now do a
10:11
Speaker 2: lot of working college sports, not in the same business
10:14
Speaker 2: modelage baseball, but to help us predict out, you know,
10:18
Speaker 2: the best portal players and the players that will fit
10:20
Speaker 2: into our system. And we've had a lot of success
10:22
Speaker 2: in the transfer portal largely because of the work of
10:25
Speaker 2: Big League Advantage and then I think they're called Sports
10:28
Speaker 2: Analytics Advantage on our side. But then the next frontier
10:31
Speaker 2: is probably the high school side, because again the data
10:35
Speaker 2: is so messy across different states and different levels that
10:40
Speaker 2: that hasn't really been great models for high school prospects.
10:45
Speaker 2: But I think that's coming and that's what we're excitedly exploring.
10:48
Speaker 1: But one thing that on the baseball side we've never
10:51
Speaker 1: really been able to master in the models is that
10:54
Speaker 1: kind of these concepts of a person's work ethic of
10:56
Speaker 1: their pain threshold, what level of injury can they play through,
11:00
Speaker 1: psychological factors which may really impact their ability to peak perform.
11:06
Speaker 1: Do you have any insights that you found from your
11:08
Speaker 1: work in Australian rules football or at the collegiate level
11:12
Speaker 1: where you've been able to find ways to incorporate those
11:14
Speaker 1: into predictive models or is that something that sits outside
11:17
Speaker 1: of the model for you guys in your analysis.
11:20
Speaker 2: No, in Australia, we definitely explored it. And one thing
11:24
Speaker 2: this guy's name is Dean de Gane. He's he created
11:27
Speaker 2: that was really great because we're allowed in Australia to
11:29
Speaker 2: do a lot of testing at the combine, a lot
11:31
Speaker 2: of psychological testing at the combine in the pre draft process.
11:34
Speaker 2: He was able to create a similarity model on personality types,
11:38
Speaker 2: so based on existing AFL players to new AFL players
11:42
Speaker 2: and understanding like the mental makeup. It's obviously not perfect,
11:46
Speaker 2: but again it gives us a really good guide onto
11:48
Speaker 2: that side of things, and it's just another kind of
11:51
Speaker 2: tool that we have in our toolkit when we're drafting
11:53
Speaker 2: to look at so we don't get that level of
11:58
Speaker 2: ability to kind of do that testing on high school
12:00
Speaker 2: athletes at the moment because of certain rules, But I
12:04
Speaker 2: think that's definitely something that could be used in professional
12:07
Speaker 2: sports in the US for sure.
12:08
Speaker 1: Yeah. I think in professional sports baseball specifically, we're spending
12:13
Speaker 1: a ton of research right now trying to figure out
12:15
Speaker 1: predictive models for health concerns down the road. We're spending
12:20
Speaker 1: a lot of time on the prehab side of things
12:22
Speaker 1: rather than just the rehab side of things, and we
12:24
Speaker 1: have a lot of studies that were ongoing to try
12:27
Speaker 1: to prevent injuries down the road. One thing that is
12:30
Speaker 1: a time honored battle for everybody who works in analytics
12:34
Speaker 1: is just this kind of notion of where does analytics
12:37
Speaker 1: stop and where does scoutings start, and how do they
12:39
Speaker 1: integrate and collaborate. You've been famously known to say that analytics,
12:44
Speaker 1: in your mind, is a decision support function. Can you
12:47
Speaker 1: walk us through an instance in your career where maybe
12:51
Speaker 1: the data modelers and the scouts were a little bit
12:53
Speaker 1: at odds in terms of how they evaluated a player,
12:57
Speaker 1: and how did you resolve that situation out?
13:00
Speaker 2: No, it's a great question. So in college sports, there's
13:03
Speaker 2: another element of it different to pro sports is that
13:06
Speaker 2: the coaches also have their subjective input a lot more
13:09
Speaker 2: than in my experience in professional sports. So really, we've
13:12
Speaker 2: got the analytics, we've got the scouting department, and then
13:14
Speaker 2: we have the coaches. So the best results have been
13:17
Speaker 2: when all three worked together. But there was a situation
13:22
Speaker 2: in the twenty twenty four twenty five transfer portal where
13:26
Speaker 2: the analytics was really high on a wide receiver. The
13:30
Speaker 2: scouts were a little bit lukewarm, but the coaches also
13:33
Speaker 2: were a little bit doubtful just because he had come
13:36
Speaker 2: from a lower level of competition. And then, you know,
13:40
Speaker 2: I kept pushing the analytics case to the coaches and
13:42
Speaker 2: they were receptive to it, and the scouts were receptive
13:45
Speaker 2: to it. But we did have a few other players
13:46
Speaker 2: that were higher on our transfer portal board, so we
13:51
Speaker 2: explored those opportunities first, and then you know, once they
13:54
Speaker 2: fell through, then the coach was like, well, why don't
13:57
Speaker 2: we circle back to the guy that the analytics really liked,
13:59
Speaker 2: And then he had a lot of success here and
14:01
Speaker 2: that's helped us get buy in, and I think that's
14:03
Speaker 2: the most important thing. And where I've seen some analytics
14:06
Speaker 2: professionals flame out is they come in and they get
14:09
Speaker 2: really offended when coaches and non technical on scouts, you know,
14:14
Speaker 2: have a disagreement or a different point of view, and
14:16
Speaker 2: then they'll try to force their point of view down
14:19
Speaker 2: the throat, and then what happens is that turns off
14:21
Speaker 2: the non technical people and then they just never have
14:24
Speaker 2: any buy in. So I think it's got to be
14:25
Speaker 2: collaborative and it's got to be evidence based. So you've
14:29
Speaker 2: got to understand, like, yep, these people coaches scouts are
14:32
Speaker 2: experts in their field, but they will be willing to
14:35
Speaker 2: listen as long as you give them the evidence that
14:38
Speaker 2: you know the analytics can work. So I think it's
14:40
Speaker 2: being patient but being able to also be firm in
14:43
Speaker 2: the beliefs and the trust you having the analytics.
14:46
Speaker 1: But look, I think that I think that perspective will
14:48
Speaker 1: allow for you to have an extremely successful career because
14:52
Speaker 1: I do think where things fall apart is when the
14:56
Speaker 1: sides become obstinate, they aren't willing to listen to one another.
15:00
Speaker 1: The realities were best when we combine both sides of
15:03
Speaker 1: the aisle together to make the best informed decisions. I
15:06
Speaker 1: always felt that the goal was not to have the
15:08
Speaker 1: most information. The goal was to have the most information.
15:12
Speaker 1: That is actionable and refining our decision making processes. And
15:15
Speaker 1: the only way you can achieve that is if you
15:17
Speaker 1: actually have buy in from both sides. And I think
15:19
Speaker 1: one thing that these models probably don't get enough credit
15:23
Speaker 1: for is the backbone of most of these models are
15:26
Speaker 1: scouting reports or its input from the scouts as they
15:29
Speaker 1: evaluate players on the field, whether that be in the
15:32
Speaker 1: high school, college, professional formats. That is really the backbone
15:36
Speaker 1: of this. But keep in mind most of these scouting
15:39
Speaker 1: departments are used to having complete jurisdiction over those decisions,
15:43
Speaker 1: so yielding any decision making power feels like an impunity
15:46
Speaker 1: to them, But in practice, their information is at the
15:50
Speaker 1: heartbeat of everything we do in these models. But I
15:53
Speaker 1: think it's then up to the model builder to understand
15:56
Speaker 1: if you incorporate the voices real time of those scouts,
15:59
Speaker 1: you're going to get in from them, and that is
16:01
Speaker 1: ultimately what you want. You want to have everybody who like,
16:04
Speaker 1: we can have disagreements behind the door, but you do
16:06
Speaker 1: want to have a unified front when you get outside
16:09
Speaker 1: of that room, and that's when the best decisions are
16:11
Speaker 1: made and that's when the athletes are put in the
16:13
Speaker 1: best positions to excel in the programs for which they're contributing.
16:18
Speaker 2: Absolutely, it's funny to say that. So my one of
16:20
Speaker 2: my mentors, the general manager at the Adelaide Crows, he
16:24
Speaker 2: would always say that we'll argue in the room, but
16:27
Speaker 2: once we walk out, it's a unified room and we
16:30
Speaker 2: have to all agree to the decision. And the Adelaide
16:32
Speaker 2: Crows went through a pretty hard rebuild and now they're
16:35
Speaker 2: on the other side of it and one of the
16:37
Speaker 2: best teams in the competition. But during that rebuild, it
16:39
Speaker 2: was that philosophy that really kept everyone together, because you know,
16:44
Speaker 2: the coaches could have blamed the scouts for a draft
16:46
Speaker 2: pick failing. The scouts and the front office could have
16:48
Speaker 2: blamed the coaches for not maximizing or developing the players
16:51
Speaker 2: they draft, but that never happened. And you see so
16:55
Speaker 2: many teams that does happen, and that those disagreements leak
16:58
Speaker 2: out of the room into the public sphere, and then
17:02
Speaker 2: those teams are not successful for very long. So it's
17:04
Speaker 2: funny that you mentioned that.
17:06
Speaker 1: So, but to take us inside of draft night for
17:09
Speaker 1: the Adelaide team, you were responsible, as I understand, for
17:13
Speaker 1: putting together a draft valued chart to understand the value
17:16
Speaker 1: of each pick throughout the draft. Can you share with
17:19
Speaker 1: us what went into your valuation if you're allowed to
17:22
Speaker 1: share that, if it's not a competitive advantage for them still,
17:25
Speaker 1: And then also, can you walk us through the mechanics
17:27
Speaker 1: of a draft night trade and actually how that goes
17:30
Speaker 1: so that the listener can understand, you're five minutes on
17:33
Speaker 1: the clock, how far in advance is that discussion taking place?
17:36
Speaker 1: In what's happening with those moments leading up to you
17:39
Speaker 1: making the selection and or making a trade?
17:41
Speaker 2: Yeah, So the draft value shot that we built, so
17:44
Speaker 2: the AFL had one probably similar to how the NFL
17:47
Speaker 2: had that Jimmy Johnson shot. The IFL had one, but
17:50
Speaker 2: we identified pretty early on that they didn't have the
17:53
Speaker 2: right model for it and it just didn't line up
17:56
Speaker 2: to the actual value of draft picks. So we built
17:58
Speaker 2: out a based on each historically each pick based on
18:03
Speaker 2: the success they had games played actually by each pick
18:06
Speaker 2: over a period of time was pretty illustrative onto how
18:10
Speaker 2: powerful that pick was. But then also we tied in
18:12
Speaker 2: some other achievements of the players that were drafted those picks.
18:16
Speaker 2: Then we built like a logarithmic regression model for that,
18:20
Speaker 2: and that whilst not perfect, that gave us a much
18:23
Speaker 2: better steer than what the AFL Draft value chart was.
18:26
Speaker 2: So we've been using that for a long time and
18:30
Speaker 2: we still use that. I think Deans actually refined that
18:32
Speaker 2: a fair bit now. But yeah, so that was used,
18:35
Speaker 2: and we had an app that would tell us the pick,
18:38
Speaker 2: so they would actually tell us what the AFL Draft
18:41
Speaker 2: value chart had, and then our own draft value chart
18:43
Speaker 2: so we could start finding some inefficiencies because we knew
18:46
Speaker 2: some teams still used the AFL chart. But yeah, so
18:49
Speaker 2: to take to answer your question about draft, my draft
18:51
Speaker 2: I was probably one of my favorite nights. It's probably
18:54
Speaker 2: the one thing that I do miss about professional sports
18:58
Speaker 2: versus college sports is you know, the draft night, because
19:02
Speaker 2: that's essentially like your Super Bowl, like you're there, high
19:05
Speaker 2: high stakes. You obviously do your draft order well in advance.
19:09
Speaker 2: Then you start, you know, probably a couple of weeks out,
19:12
Speaker 2: when teams have already finalized their draft order. You start
19:15
Speaker 2: getting some intel from player agents and from the media
19:17
Speaker 2: and from the players themselves. Is where teams like players,
19:21
Speaker 2: and then you start making some calls to the other
19:23
Speaker 2: teams about okay if this you know, not talking about players,
19:27
Speaker 2: but if we liked a player that was available at
19:31
Speaker 2: your pick, would you consider doing X, Y and Z
19:33
Speaker 2: on the night And then you know, you'd get to
19:35
Speaker 2: ideas and who was open to moving, and then when
19:39
Speaker 2: draft night hit, yeah, you'd have five ten minutes, depending
19:42
Speaker 2: on the round, on each pick, and then you would
19:46
Speaker 2: start calling. So we had two people designated to be
19:49
Speaker 2: on the phones. It was our general manager and myself,
19:53
Speaker 2: and so we would be calling different teams and assessing
19:56
Speaker 2: interests and then when we got proposed to trade, we
19:59
Speaker 2: had somebody up on the whiteboard, so we would call
20:02
Speaker 2: it out, Okay, this team has offered us this and
20:04
Speaker 2: this for this. They would discuss, okay, what's the decision,
20:08
Speaker 2: and then it would just generally be myself, the general
20:11
Speaker 2: manager ahead of scouting, and Dean that would kind of
20:15
Speaker 2: chime in to give their opinion. Then we'd make a
20:18
Speaker 2: quick decision, get back on the phone and say yes
20:20
Speaker 2: or no. If it was a yes, then what we
20:23
Speaker 2: would do would we'd have to call the AFL to
20:25
Speaker 2: log the trade, and then our national recruiting manager he
20:29
Speaker 2: would kind of adjust his order to go, Okay, we're
20:31
Speaker 2: going to get this player now, because you know we've
20:33
Speaker 2: moved up ten spots, or we're going to lose these
20:35
Speaker 2: players because we've moved down X amount of spots. So yeah,
20:39
Speaker 2: it's riveting. I really enjoyed it. There was actually a
20:43
Speaker 2: meme made of me which was pretty funny in one
20:45
Speaker 2: of the drafts where I was on the phone and
20:47
Speaker 2: there was the GM of another team on the phone
20:49
Speaker 2: and somebody commented like, you hang up, No, you hung up,
20:52
Speaker 2: and that went viral a few years ago. But yeah,
20:56
Speaker 2: I love draft night and I do miss it.
20:59
Speaker 1: I think it's the night where these models really shine
21:03
Speaker 1: because they're reacting in real time to all this information
21:06
Speaker 1: you're bringing into the room and introducing into the model.
21:09
Speaker 1: Baseball has the same stuff. Were not allowed to trade
21:12
Speaker 1: draft picks, but I think what I always found to
21:14
Speaker 1: be the exceptional art form. Sean Johnson's a long time
21:17
Speaker 1: scouting director with Minnesota and he's done an exceptional job.
21:21
Speaker 1: But one of the things he has to do is
21:23
Speaker 1: we line up the board. You know, in theory, we
21:25
Speaker 1: have the top two hundred players in the draft. That's
21:28
Speaker 1: the science of it. But the art form is when
21:30
Speaker 1: do you have to take them? And as you mentioned,
21:32
Speaker 1: so much of this is data mining, it's information mining,
21:35
Speaker 1: it's trying to understand where these guys are going to
21:37
Speaker 1: go in the draft, where they're on other teams boards.
21:40
Speaker 1: Because the goal is not to get the best player
21:41
Speaker 1: in the draft, it's to get the best draft class.
21:44
Speaker 1: And so you're trying to put together the most impactful
21:46
Speaker 1: players you can and and so the art form is
21:48
Speaker 1: when do you select them? But as you mentioned, it's
21:51
Speaker 1: one of the most exhilarating nights. If I could take
21:53
Speaker 1: a fan inside of any event that we have, sure
21:56
Speaker 1: the World Series for US would be probably number one,
21:58
Speaker 1: but the second thing would be Draft. It's just exceptional.
22:01
Speaker 1: It's so much fun. It's a great, great night. So
22:06
Speaker 1: one last question before we dive into Duke. You have
22:10
Speaker 1: mentioned that you kind of wish when you were in
22:12
Speaker 1: Adelaide you had some of the resources, the data and
22:16
Speaker 1: analytics that you have now in Duke. What stands out
22:19
Speaker 1: to you what is the separator between what's going on
22:22
Speaker 1: in the Australian Football League and now in the NCAA
22:25
Speaker 1: and some of the more advanced schools such as Duke.
22:29
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, it's a good question, and I think it's
22:31
Speaker 2: actually a resource iss just on the Australian Football League.
22:34
Speaker 2: You obviously have a salary cap on the players, but
22:36
Speaker 2: there's also a salary cap on front office spend, so
22:41
Speaker 2: that really limits the level of innovation. So we were
22:44
Speaker 2: lucky at Adelaide, you know, our CEO down were invested
22:47
Speaker 2: in innovation, and we had a really smart CFO as well,
22:50
Speaker 2: who really spent a lot of time in the US
22:54
Speaker 2: actually with the Philadelphia Phillies, and so he knew the
22:57
Speaker 2: importance of analytics and so we invest in it. But
23:01
Speaker 2: I think league wide there just isn't that level of investment,
23:04
Speaker 2: and obviously in college as well, not every team's using
23:07
Speaker 2: it and things like that, but I think there's just
23:09
Speaker 2: more scope to use it because the budgets are bigger
23:12
Speaker 2: and it's not artificially capped. Obviously, every college athletic department
23:15
Speaker 2: right now is trying to fundraise and trying to work
23:18
Speaker 2: out how they're going to be able to fulfill the
23:21
Speaker 2: revenue share high that you know has been dropped on
23:23
Speaker 2: them in the last eighteen months. But I think overall,
23:26
Speaker 2: just not having an artificial cap on innovation helps us
23:30
Speaker 2: get more advanced.
23:31
Speaker 1: Great. So, but if you could just take us, take
23:34
Speaker 1: us into Duke's front office now, you're the general manager.
23:38
Speaker 1: But for the listener out there, what is the delineation
23:41
Speaker 1: of role between you and head coach Manu Diaz when
23:45
Speaker 1: it comes to roster construction, roster acquisition and distribution of
23:50
Speaker 1: nil funds.
23:51
Speaker 2: Yeah, so we were handing home coach deals and I
23:55
Speaker 2: you know, the way that college works is I report
23:58
Speaker 2: to Coach Dens And what's great with him is that
24:01
Speaker 2: he trusts me and gives me a lot of autonomy
24:03
Speaker 2: with the salary cap, you know, I put it together,
24:07
Speaker 2: obviously run it by him, but then he trusts me
24:09
Speaker 2: to do all of our negotiations and you know, dealing
24:12
Speaker 2: with all the agents and things like that, which, yeah,
24:15
Speaker 2: you know, it's been great, and I know it's some
24:17
Speaker 2: other schools there's just not that level of trust that
24:20
Speaker 2: coach Dias has, So yeah, I'm forever grateful for him.
24:23
Speaker 2: And then the way it works for us is I've
24:25
Speaker 2: got an assistant general manager that we recently hired. His
24:28
Speaker 2: name is Preston Pearson, and he does a great job
24:31
Speaker 2: leading us scouting and recruiting department. So he will source
24:35
Speaker 2: a lot of names, especially in high school recruiting, set
24:39
Speaker 2: the board with our position coaches, and then coach Dias
24:42
Speaker 2: and I will get involved. We'll also watch all the players,
24:44
Speaker 2: but then you know, it's just Coach d Has and
24:46
Speaker 2: I that deal with the money. So we'll go back
24:49
Speaker 2: and forth on where we think each player should be
24:51
Speaker 2: getting paid across our roster and across any incomings, and
24:55
Speaker 2: then yeah, we'll go. I'll go and kind of deliver
24:58
Speaker 2: that and negotiate that with the player his family's representatives.
25:02
Speaker 1: All right, I would love to dive into about seventeen
25:04
Speaker 1: of the things you just said, So I'm going to
25:06
Speaker 1: start with this. Help us understand that there is a
25:11
Speaker 1: premium edge rusher in the transfer portal. Walk us through
25:15
Speaker 1: E is, how do you value that player? How do
25:18
Speaker 1: you set an appropriate value for what is what you
25:21
Speaker 1: would do to pursue him to become a Blue Devil.
25:24
Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely, so we would have probably identified we would
25:28
Speaker 2: identify kind of all the premium players like you mentioned
25:32
Speaker 2: or who you know, who we think gettable for us,
25:34
Speaker 2: because obviously we have a lot of academic requirements as
25:37
Speaker 2: well compared to some other schools. So we'll kind of
25:41
Speaker 2: identify that across the year, and you know, the analytics
25:46
Speaker 2: and the coaches will kind of have their opinions on
25:49
Speaker 2: each of these players, and then when the transfer portal
25:51
Speaker 2: opens and you know, okay, who's in the portal, we'll
25:54
Speaker 2: sit down with agents and kind of go through, Okay,
25:56
Speaker 2: what are the expectations, what are you hoping for? And
25:59
Speaker 2: understand from a monetary perspective, you know what if that
26:03
Speaker 2: player can fit into our budget. And then also simultaneously
26:06
Speaker 2: we'll be actually getting the player's transcripts to make sure
26:09
Speaker 2: that academically they can get into school. So once those
26:13
Speaker 2: two things are kind of ticked off, and the monetary piece,
26:15
Speaker 2: what's really important is if we have existing starters at
26:19
Speaker 2: that position that are playing well, we won't bring in
26:24
Speaker 2: a transfer portal player on more money than those starters.
26:26
Speaker 2: And the reason being is do has to be a
26:28
Speaker 2: developmental program because we can't go to the transfer portal
26:32
Speaker 2: as much as other schools for a couple of reasons.
26:35
Speaker 2: First of all, you know, we have to spend our
26:37
Speaker 2: money responsibly and our share of the money might not
26:40
Speaker 2: be as much as some other schools. But secondly, because
26:44
Speaker 2: of our academic requirements, we really need to be a
26:47
Speaker 2: high school developmental program. So if you think about it,
26:51
Speaker 2: in pro sports, there are the draft and development programs,
26:53
Speaker 2: or there's the free agency type organization. So we have
26:57
Speaker 2: to be that first type. And because of that, cultures
27:00
Speaker 2: so vital that if we start bringing players that might
27:04
Speaker 2: not be better than our existing starters, but are making
27:06
Speaker 2: two or three x those players, then that destroys the culture.
27:09
Speaker 2: And we've seen that, you know, in the last couple
27:11
Speaker 2: of years across many college football programs where they've had
27:14
Speaker 2: these really sexy portal classes, but then the output on
27:18
Speaker 2: the field doesn't transition because of the impact it's had
27:21
Speaker 2: on the existing locker room.
27:22
Speaker 1: I'm really intrigued to hear all of about all about that.
27:25
Speaker 1: So just what is the ballpark? What is the turnover
27:28
Speaker 1: in your roster year over year?
27:30
Speaker 2: Yeah, so a couple of years ago we actually had
27:33
Speaker 2: the second fewest portal entries in the whole power for
27:36
Speaker 2: and then last year, you know, we had a little
27:38
Speaker 2: bit more obviously with our success and then some guys
27:41
Speaker 2: not getting opportunities and wanting and us wanting to retain
27:44
Speaker 2: some of our key kind of contributors. That meant some
27:47
Speaker 2: of initially our depth guys moved on. But you know,
27:52
Speaker 2: we'd like we from a percentage standpoint, like working off
27:57
Speaker 2: for a one hundred and five man roster, like ten
27:59
Speaker 2: to twelve percent is what we'd like turnover in the portal.
28:03
Speaker 2: Obviously we'd replace, Like there's some situations where, you know,
28:07
Speaker 2: if we have some seniors at a certain position and
28:09
Speaker 2: then a bunch of freshmen and there's a gap with
28:12
Speaker 2: juniors or sophomores, that's when we'll look to add to
28:15
Speaker 2: the portal to that experience. But yeah, for the most part,
28:18
Speaker 2: we do like to develop our.
28:20
Speaker 1: Own How much of your time and Coach Diaz's time
28:23
Speaker 1: is spent recruiting, recruiting both the high school kid, the
28:28
Speaker 1: transfer portal candidate, but then also your own players to
28:31
Speaker 1: retaine them.
28:32
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean that's a great question. So I think
28:36
Speaker 2: the Preston and his team, the scouting team, they do
28:38
Speaker 2: a great job with our position coaches on really recruiting
28:41
Speaker 2: those high school kids early on. Obviously, Coach Diaz and
28:44
Speaker 2: I will spend time, you know, we'll be calling them
28:47
Speaker 2: when went allowed and texting them and doing things like that,
28:50
Speaker 2: and then when they come on campus we'll speak to them.
28:53
Speaker 2: But that high school recruiting, the main kind of chunk
28:56
Speaker 2: of that high school recruiting falls on Press and his
28:58
Speaker 2: team and our position coaches. Then when it comes to
29:01
Speaker 2: the portal, I mean, the portal recruiting cycle is so small,
29:04
Speaker 2: it's like, probably to further dive into your initial question,
29:08
Speaker 2: it's okay. Once the kids in the portal, you agree
29:11
Speaker 2: on the money, you agree on the that they can
29:14
Speaker 2: get in academically, you get them here for a visit,
29:17
Speaker 2: twenty four thirty six hour visit, and then they commit
29:20
Speaker 2: or they don't commit, because you can't obviously recruit another
29:23
Speaker 2: school's kid during the non portal cycle. So because of that,
29:28
Speaker 2: that's a lot shorter process than high school. And then yeah,
29:32
Speaker 2: the retention of our own roster that's ongoing. That is
29:34
Speaker 2: a twenty four to seven thing from coach Diaz to
29:37
Speaker 2: the position coaches to me, always you know, checking in
29:40
Speaker 2: our uster, making sure that they're actually do kids are
29:42
Speaker 2: quite intelligent, so making sure that they are across what
29:46
Speaker 2: our plans are for their position, how we can maximize
29:49
Speaker 2: them their development. They always need to know that, so
29:52
Speaker 2: being transparent with that communication. But probably out of those
29:56
Speaker 2: three buckets for me, it's the retention of our own
29:59
Speaker 2: roster that's vital. Well, I spend most of my time
30:02
Speaker 2: on did you.
30:03
Speaker 1: Guys have anything built into your models set as predictive
30:07
Speaker 1: of who's more at risk of trying to transfer, or
30:09
Speaker 1: is there a type of player that you identify early
30:13
Speaker 1: in the process and say, we have to spend more
30:14
Speaker 1: time trying to recruit this player or re recruit this
30:17
Speaker 1: player to retaint them because they are more of a
30:20
Speaker 1: flight risk.
30:21
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's not something that we've probably got into a model,
30:24
Speaker 2: but it's through conversations with their position coach, with their families,
30:29
Speaker 2: with their agents, is really understanding Okay, these guys could
30:32
Speaker 2: be a flight risk, and then notifying and then you know,
30:35
Speaker 2: we've got to make a decision. Okay, like if this
30:38
Speaker 2: is a player who's asking for way too much money
30:42
Speaker 2: and it distorts our salary cap structure, we might have
30:44
Speaker 2: to be comfortable with letting that player go. And that's
30:47
Speaker 2: something that we have done, especially this year, where some
30:50
Speaker 2: players were asking for too much money for relatives to
30:53
Speaker 2: their positional value or their output that we just told
30:57
Speaker 2: them upfront with'd love for you to stay, but we
30:59
Speaker 2: can't afward what you're asking and it might be in
31:02
Speaker 2: your best interest to leave. So those tough decisions have
31:05
Speaker 2: to be made as well.
31:07
Speaker 1: But looking in a sport that is ultimately dominated by
31:11
Speaker 1: the SEC and the Big Ten. What is your value
31:14
Speaker 1: proposition to a perspective duke player of how you guys
31:18
Speaker 1: are going to compete against those bohemos.
31:21
Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely. I mean, first of all, from a recruiting perspective,
31:25
Speaker 2: I think we've got the best value proposition in the
31:26
Speaker 2: country because obviously you can come here and play championship football.
31:30
Speaker 2: We won the ACC, but you also get what I
31:33
Speaker 2: think is the best degree in the whole power for
31:36
Speaker 2: and you get access to our alumni network. Like, our
31:38
Speaker 2: alumni network is really really helpful with our football players
31:43
Speaker 2: and getting them opportunities, whether that be employment opportunities, internships,
31:48
Speaker 2: helping them with We've got two of our senior guys
31:50
Speaker 2: that have made an app so we've got some alumni
31:53
Speaker 2: that are advising them on how to you know, really
31:56
Speaker 2: promote and build build their app So there's so much
31:59
Speaker 2: more that we are for a duke than I think
32:01
Speaker 2: anywhere else. But then from a football perspective, and I've
32:04
Speaker 2: actually heard this from a few agents and doing our
32:07
Speaker 2: own analysis, that's true. It's like I think the ACC
32:10
Speaker 2: plays some of the most exciting and the best offense
32:13
Speaker 2: in the country, and that across all all our schools
32:16
Speaker 2: and that really allows kids, especially from an offensive perspective,
32:20
Speaker 2: to showcase their skills and showcase their worth to the NFL.
32:24
Speaker 2: But then from a defensive perspective as well, it helps
32:27
Speaker 2: our players because the defense, the guys on defense have
32:29
Speaker 2: to really be able to react quick, you think fast,
32:32
Speaker 2: and be able to diagnose is really exciting offensive schemes
32:36
Speaker 2: that that do occur in the NFL as well. So
32:39
Speaker 2: there is that as well, that ability, and I think
32:41
Speaker 2: it's going to actually shift because yes, the SEC and
32:44
Speaker 2: the Big ten, you know, they have this brand recognition,
32:48
Speaker 2: But if you look at now the pathway to the playoff,
32:50
Speaker 2: is there a better pathway to the playoff than the
32:52
Speaker 2: ACC or the Big twelve? So I think that narrative
32:56
Speaker 2: is going to shift, and that's what we tell all
32:57
Speaker 2: our kids and their families when they come on with visits.
33:00
Speaker 1: Well, when the dust settles are is this program like
33:04
Speaker 1: duke fishing off of a different pier than say Georgia,
33:07
Speaker 1: Alabama and Ohio State or are you guys competing for
33:10
Speaker 1: the same types of players?
33:12
Speaker 2: Good question. I think just academic kind of requirements mean
33:15
Speaker 2: that it narrows down a all of players, and we
33:19
Speaker 2: have to be and we have to be really selective
33:20
Speaker 2: with the kids that we recruited. I think when in
33:23
Speaker 2: high school, though, the recruiting might be different where it
33:26
Speaker 2: really comes into plays. Like a lot of our top
33:28
Speaker 2: guys in the transfer portal, they you know, they get
33:32
Speaker 2: offered by some of those schools as well. So that's
33:34
Speaker 2: where we're finding against them to retain our own guys
33:36
Speaker 2: because they know the talent that comes out of here.
33:39
Speaker 1: It's it's fascinating, it's it's a constantly fluid process. It's
33:42
Speaker 1: ever changing right now as it does continue to change.
33:47
Speaker 1: Have you found that there are some market inefficiencies that
33:50
Speaker 1: have been created both in recruiting through the transfer portal
33:53
Speaker 1: or through high school that has been kind of compounded
33:57
Speaker 1: by all the rule changes that have taken place over
33:59
Speaker 1: the last three to five years.
34:01
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, And I think with that going too much
34:03
Speaker 2: into it, you just look at the way that Indiana
34:05
Speaker 2: have built their team, experienced guys with a lot of
34:08
Speaker 2: snaps that generally tends to translate really well compared to
34:14
Speaker 2: maybe a five star that didn't make it somewhere else.
34:16
Speaker 2: And you look at the players that have been taken
34:20
Speaker 2: in both those kind of scenarios and the ones that
34:22
Speaker 2: have succeeded. So yeah, I think that's definitely an inefficiency.
34:26
Speaker 2: And then we think the use of analytics gives us
34:28
Speaker 2: a superpower and we've been able to over the last
34:30
Speaker 2: three years really refine the models that we've been using.
34:33
Speaker 1: But circling back to the transfer portal, just one last
34:36
Speaker 1: question on that. You mentioned that you get feedback from
34:39
Speaker 1: the player's representation as to what their expectations are. How
34:42
Speaker 1: much is that dictating for you the valuation of your
34:45
Speaker 1: player versus the models you have in the comparison to
34:48
Speaker 1: his comparables.
34:49
Speaker 2: So I think the best kind of use of that
34:52
Speaker 2: information from the players to say, if there's a gap
34:55
Speaker 2: that's too far, then we know, like we're not going
34:57
Speaker 2: to waste our time. But if if there is a
35:00
Speaker 2: gap but it's not too significant, that's when we kind
35:03
Speaker 2: of go into the cell of everything else about being
35:06
Speaker 2: at Duke, like getting to play here with world class coaches,
35:09
Speaker 2: getting the academics, and then getting access to our alumni network,
35:13
Speaker 2: Like we think that that naturally should be allows us
35:17
Speaker 2: to get a discount on players because the future earning
35:20
Speaker 2: potential by coming to do it is so much greater
35:23
Speaker 2: than one hundred or two hundred thousand dollars.
35:26
Speaker 1: Now, So I love the fact that you have woven
35:29
Speaker 1: academics into so many of your answers, because one thing
35:32
Speaker 1: I wanted to just to get your reaction from was
35:34
Speaker 1: some quotations recently from an interview with Hall of Fame
35:37
Speaker 1: coach Nick Sabian. He said, my goal was to help
35:41
Speaker 1: prepare players for success in life and create an environment
35:44
Speaker 1: that helped them through personal development and academic support. That
35:47
Speaker 1: became impossible to do in this system. He further went
35:50
Speaker 1: on to say, how much does anybody talk about getting
35:53
Speaker 1: an education anymore? Nobody talks about it at all, which
35:56
Speaker 1: is the most important thing any of these student athletes
35:59
Speaker 1: can do in terms of enhancing their future. You've talked
36:02
Speaker 1: a lot about this. It sounds like you viewed this
36:04
Speaker 1: kind of as a competitive advantage for the Duke athlete,
36:08
Speaker 1: and you're bringing back the word student into student athlete.
36:12
Speaker 1: But can you just walk us through what is an
36:14
Speaker 1: academic day in the life like for a student who's
36:18
Speaker 1: playing football at Duke in season?
36:21
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, we do ask a lot of these guys.
36:24
Speaker 2: So we we're a morning practice team just because of
36:27
Speaker 2: the time that our classes start. For a lot of
36:29
Speaker 2: our guys, so they'll practice early in the morning. You know,
36:33
Speaker 2: they'll get up to all their treatment and go to
36:35
Speaker 2: position meetings and then practice and then they go to
36:37
Speaker 2: class at eleven and then depending on their schedule, they
36:40
Speaker 2: kind of some of them will have six hours of
36:44
Speaker 2: class that day, some will have four, depending on where
36:46
Speaker 2: they're at in their academic journey. But yeah, it is
36:50
Speaker 2: it is a big schedule. But we do have a
36:52
Speaker 2: lot of academic support staff that are great, so they
36:55
Speaker 2: help our kids through it, and they help the student
36:58
Speaker 2: athletes really really kind of identify what their areas of
37:03
Speaker 2: interests are and exploring those, but then also helping them identify, Okay,
37:08
Speaker 2: this might be your area of interest, but where do
37:10
Speaker 2: you want to go in your future and then okay,
37:12
Speaker 2: you might have to take some classes that are not
37:14
Speaker 2: as enjoyable, maybe a little bit more rigorous, but they'll
37:17
Speaker 2: give them the support through that and then you know,
37:19
Speaker 2: their study hall for the kids as well. So it
37:22
Speaker 2: is a lot. But I think if you speak to
37:24
Speaker 2: some about older guys now, like they're so grateful for
37:27
Speaker 2: that opportunity that we do push them academically, and that's
37:31
Speaker 2: helped them so much. Like we had a couple of
37:34
Speaker 2: players at practice on Saturday, former players that you know,
37:36
Speaker 2: they're going to Goldman Sachs, They're going to Boston Consulting Group,
37:40
Speaker 2: And it's just so great to see these kids that
37:43
Speaker 2: played a high level of football, won a championship, were
37:45
Speaker 2: contributors on the field, decided, you know, the NFL wasn't
37:48
Speaker 2: for them, and then you know, they've got these great careers,
37:51
Speaker 2: and I think there's no better recruiting tool than that
37:53
Speaker 2: for us.
37:54
Speaker 1: Well, you know, getting back to the thesis you wrote
37:57
Speaker 1: at law school, it's you know, it's one thing to
38:00
Speaker 1: convert these student athletes into earners, and they deserve to
38:04
Speaker 1: earn money. But I think one of the things that
38:06
Speaker 1: probably the average listener thinks is now they've just totally
38:09
Speaker 1: been stripped bare of any responsibilities academically. And it's refreshing
38:13
Speaker 1: to hear that there's a balance point and that despite
38:16
Speaker 1: what Nick Saban's saying, there are places still that have
38:19
Speaker 1: been able to compete at an exceptionally high level, such
38:21
Speaker 1: as Duke has, but also deliver such an incredible academic
38:25
Speaker 1: experience and foundation for success for the future elements of life.
38:29
Speaker 1: The stark reality of sport is at some point for
38:33
Speaker 1: every athlete, your career ends and the rest of your
38:35
Speaker 1: life begins. And it sounds like you guys are intentionally
38:38
Speaker 1: providing them with foundational skills to excel not only on
38:42
Speaker 1: the field, but when their careers end and they get
38:45
Speaker 1: to start their real life, which is probably the majority
38:48
Speaker 1: of their life will be outside of the grid iron.
38:51
Speaker 2: Absolutely, and it's actually it's funny because, like you mentioned,
38:55
Speaker 2: it was the first outright acc title for Duke in
38:58
Speaker 2: sixty five years. But that full semester we also had
39:02
Speaker 2: the highest of a team GPA of three point five.
39:04
Speaker 2: So those things are correlated here. They might not be elsewhere,
39:08
Speaker 2: but we think that the better that they do on
39:12
Speaker 2: the field, the better they do in the classroom. It
39:14
Speaker 2: all relates. And yeah, you can't you can't walk away
39:17
Speaker 2: from that.
39:18
Speaker 1: But what is your relationship and Coach Diaz's relationship with
39:22
Speaker 1: the admissions office. Do you guys get any latitude? Duke
39:25
Speaker 1: is one of the most rigorous schools in the United States.
39:27
Speaker 1: It's one of the toughest academic settings, one of the
39:30
Speaker 1: most difficult schools to get into. Do the football players
39:33
Speaker 1: have the same levels scrutiny. Do they get a little
39:35
Speaker 1: bit latitude if they're pulling guards and then they can
39:38
Speaker 1: protect a quarterback.
39:39
Speaker 2: What do we have here? No? I think yeah, I
39:42
Speaker 2: think it is just as hard for the football players
39:45
Speaker 2: to get in. But the admission's office will work with
39:47
Speaker 2: us when they're you know, we'll explain to them that
39:50
Speaker 2: there are certain circumstances why a kid's great or GPA
39:54
Speaker 2: might not be as high, and they'll they'll investigate that
39:57
Speaker 2: and they'll work with us. They've been really great to
39:59
Speaker 2: deal with, and we know the expectations and the standards
40:03
Speaker 2: they have, and as long as we bring in high
40:06
Speaker 2: school or portal classes that adhere to that, they're willing
40:09
Speaker 2: to kind of work with us on around the margins
40:12
Speaker 2: where you know, they could be a borderline decision.
40:15
Speaker 1: It's refreshing to hear everyone should get consideration based upon
40:18
Speaker 1: the strengths that they bring to the communities that they're
40:21
Speaker 1: going to contribute to, and in this case, they're really
40:24
Speaker 1: making significant contributions to the new community and the ability
40:27
Speaker 1: to be able to make those contributions as exceptional. Last
40:31
Speaker 1: two questions for you before we let you go. There
40:34
Speaker 1: have been so much change in colege athletics over the
40:36
Speaker 1: last five years. As is often the case with this
40:39
Speaker 1: level of change, sometimes the intention of the rules is
40:43
Speaker 1: not perfectly aligned with the practical application of the rules.
40:46
Speaker 1: Do you see things that will need to be clarified
40:49
Speaker 1: in the near term, and then also what types of
40:51
Speaker 1: rules do you anticipate should be changed over the next
40:55
Speaker 1: foreseeable time frame.
40:57
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think we need to get to point where
41:01
Speaker 2: contracts are enforceable. In contracts, you know, if you sign
41:05
Speaker 2: a two year contract that you are held to that,
41:08
Speaker 2: just like in pro sports. I know there's some talk
41:11
Speaker 2: fund does that then lead to employment? And I think
41:14
Speaker 2: we just need to have those conversations. And it is
41:16
Speaker 2: uncomfortable for a lot of people to have the collective
41:19
Speaker 2: bargaining employment contract, but to really get in front of
41:22
Speaker 2: this thing and to make sure that we can add
41:24
Speaker 2: some stability not just for the schools, but more for
41:27
Speaker 2: the athletes as well. And you don't want to get
41:29
Speaker 2: into a position where I think the worst thing is
41:31
Speaker 2: what you touched on as well, what Nick Saban touches
41:33
Speaker 2: on is where it kid goes one place in high
41:36
Speaker 2: school and there are you know, three or four schools
41:38
Speaker 2: in three years, like that's not great for anyone. They're
41:40
Speaker 2: not going to get a degree, and I think the
41:42
Speaker 2: best way we can do that is by making enforceable contracts.
41:46
Speaker 1: Yeah, it is remarkable when you watch these ball games,
41:49
Speaker 1: when you watch the NCAA tournament and you see the
41:52
Speaker 1: resumes of some of the contributing athletes, and it's literally
41:56
Speaker 1: that they've been to two, three four schools, and it's
41:59
Speaker 1: hard to believe in to envision that that was setting
42:01
Speaker 1: them up for the best success in their lives down
42:04
Speaker 1: the road. It's certainly maximizing. Maybe they're earning potential in college,
42:09
Speaker 1: but certainly we owe them more than just that. I
42:11
Speaker 1: would say. Coincidentally, did you watch the game this weekend?
42:17
Speaker 1: That was one of the most spellbounding, heartbreaking defeats. It
42:21
Speaker 1: hearkens back to I've said this on the show many
42:24
Speaker 1: times the twenty eleven World Series when the Texas Rangers,
42:28
Speaker 1: which I was working for at the time, I think
42:29
Speaker 1: had a ninety seven percent chance of winning, and somehow
42:32
Speaker 1: that also aligns with a three percent chance of losing,
42:34
Speaker 1: and we maximize that. Unfortunately, yesterday was a harrowing finish
42:38
Speaker 1: for your Duke. Blue Devils. Different sport, but same jerseys.
42:42
Speaker 2: Yeah, that was devastating and we've got you know, I've
42:45
Speaker 2: got great relationships with the people in basketball and we
42:49
Speaker 2: want them to win and heal their success, and that
42:52
Speaker 2: was really unfortunate. That's the beauty and the heartbreak of
42:56
Speaker 2: the tournament. I guess, like it just is so hard
42:59
Speaker 2: to win it. And you know, what John Shi has
43:02
Speaker 2: been able to do in his four years here is
43:04
Speaker 2: remarkable and should be commended, Like, you know, for him
43:07
Speaker 2: to come in and I think that's three ear eight,
43:09
Speaker 2: eight's one final four and the amount of wins that
43:12
Speaker 2: he's had in four years, Like, basketball is in great hands.
43:16
Speaker 2: And Rachel Baker, the general manager over there, you should
43:18
Speaker 2: probably get her on NeXT's She's great well, close friend
43:22
Speaker 2: of mine, and she's done such a good job with
43:23
Speaker 2: the branding of that program. And those two are going
43:26
Speaker 2: to have a lot of success in the future, no doubt.
43:29
Speaker 1: Well, it's the gold standard of college basketball and it
43:32
Speaker 1: will continue to be regardless of the outcome of one game.
43:35
Speaker 1: But O we as we say goodbye to I just
43:37
Speaker 1: be curious your assessment of college sports right now, how
43:42
Speaker 1: should we be evaluating evaluating the success of a school's
43:46
Speaker 1: athletic department at this stage.
43:48
Speaker 2: That's a great question. I mean, I think it's a
43:52
Speaker 2: school that ideally you want to be competitive in everything
43:56
Speaker 2: that you do. But so a school that can obviously
44:00
Speaker 2: invest in all of their athletic programs. I think that's
44:03
Speaker 2: really important. A school that doesn't just prioritize and this
44:08
Speaker 2: might be going against my best interest, but doesn't just
44:11
Speaker 2: prioritize football and basketball. I think the whole college sports
44:15
Speaker 2: environment ecosystem works because of the Olympic sports and the
44:20
Speaker 2: beauty that comes with that and the opportunities that provides
44:23
Speaker 2: other students. So I think a school that can maintain
44:25
Speaker 2: the sustainability of its other programs whilst also being highly
44:30
Speaker 2: competitive across if you want to call them the Major three,
44:33
Speaker 2: which is football, men's basketball, and women's basketball, I think
44:37
Speaker 2: that's great. I think that's what Nina king ra Ad
44:39
Speaker 2: does a great job of protecting our Olympic sports, but
44:42
Speaker 2: also investing at the right level in the big three sports,
44:46
Speaker 2: so that's one, and then making sure the academics are
44:50
Speaker 2: still prioritized. I think that's so important just for these
44:53
Speaker 2: student athletes that they have that grounding or that foundation
44:57
Speaker 2: to build on after they leave college. Athletics.
45:01
Speaker 1: Well, I would like to thank Banuk for spending so
45:03
Speaker 1: much time with us in enlightening us on how we
45:06
Speaker 1: are professionalizing college sports and taking us behind the scenes
45:09
Speaker 1: of what is one of the most compelling success stories
45:12
Speaker 1: in college sports today, which is Duke operating at such
45:16
Speaker 1: a high academic level but also competing with some of
45:19
Speaker 1: the juggernauts in college sports. I'm sure you're just scratching
45:23
Speaker 1: the surface with the talents you're bringing and your team.
45:26
Speaker 1: Stay with us through the break. On the other side,
45:29
Speaker 1: questions with Producer Wyatt.
45:31
Speaker 3: Thanks that it was great, welcome back to rosters, to
45:43
Speaker 3: rings wonderful conversation with Banook.
45:46
Speaker 1: We are now turning our attention to questions with Producer Wyatt.
45:50
Speaker 1: What do you have for us this week?
45:51
Speaker 2: All right?
45:51
Speaker 4: That good to see you. We had an incredible opening
45:55
Speaker 4: weekend in the MLB, an incredible weekend for ABS, so
46:01
Speaker 4: I've got some highlights to run through with you. So
46:05
Speaker 4: first off, what I want to talk to you about
46:07
Speaker 4: is we had umpire c B. Buckner. He had six
46:11
Speaker 4: overturned calls in the reds versus Red Sox game on Saturday,
46:16
Speaker 4: and I don't know if you saw this that but
46:19
Speaker 4: there was an incredible moment with back to back overturned
46:22
Speaker 4: strike three calls against Eugenio Suarez, and it was the
46:28
Speaker 4: loudest the crowd got the whole game. But I first
46:31
Speaker 4: wanted to get your take on that moment in the
46:35
Speaker 4: Reds Red Sox game. I know you said last week
46:38
Speaker 4: that umpires in general are for this rule implementation. I
46:44
Speaker 4: don't think Cebe Buckner was all too happy with what
46:48
Speaker 4: happened in the game, but just wanted to get your
46:51
Speaker 4: take on that.
46:52
Speaker 1: So I think there's a lot of things going on
46:54
Speaker 1: here worthy of discussion. As you mentioned, we discussed this
46:59
Speaker 1: last week. I do think by and large that the
47:01
Speaker 1: umpires are desires of getting these calls right. They just
47:05
Speaker 1: know all the fans have information at their fingertips that
47:10
Speaker 1: shows whether the guys safer out at first base, whether
47:13
Speaker 1: the ball's foul or fare down the line, and whether
47:16
Speaker 1: there are balls or strikes being called, so they would
47:18
Speaker 1: prefer to have that just be out in the open.
47:21
Speaker 1: Another thing that I think is happening here is there's
47:24
Speaker 1: been a fundamental change in the strike zone as a
47:26
Speaker 1: result of the ABS, So now the definition of the
47:30
Speaker 1: strike zone has changed subtly but subtly is significant for umpires,
47:34
Speaker 1: and so I think we have to afford them some
47:36
Speaker 1: latitude to make adjustments that the timing. This will hopefully
47:41
Speaker 1: not take too long for them, but in the short term,
47:44
Speaker 1: I do think we're going to expect to see some
47:45
Speaker 1: of this going on. You know, I was looking at
47:48
Speaker 1: it and it sounds like about fifty four percent of
47:51
Speaker 1: the calls were accurate, which means forty six percent were overturned.
47:56
Speaker 1: Not surprising to me. The catchers are doing the best
47:59
Speaker 1: so far. Interestingly, I think batters are doing better than pitchers,
48:03
Speaker 1: which all of this makes sense. The closer you are
48:05
Speaker 1: to the ball or strike crossing the plate, the more
48:10
Speaker 1: accurate you are. The pitchers are really not faring too
48:13
Speaker 1: well so far. The catchers are doing the best. The
48:15
Speaker 1: other thing that I think is going on behind the
48:17
Speaker 1: scenes that the listeners should be aware of is there
48:20
Speaker 1: was a long time in the umpire's union where it
48:23
Speaker 1: was so strong that it was almost akin to being
48:27
Speaker 1: a Supreme Court justice. Once you got a chance to
48:29
Speaker 1: be an umpire, you were going to be that until
48:33
Speaker 1: you retired or died on the job. I think over
48:36
Speaker 1: the last five years there's been so much greater standards
48:40
Speaker 1: of excellence for umpires. They're getting graded on a game
48:43
Speaker 1: by game basis not only on their accuracy, but on
48:46
Speaker 1: their demeanor, how they interact with players on the field,
48:50
Speaker 1: with fans, with coaches, with managers. That impacts not only
48:54
Speaker 1: their ability to work in postseason, which is very lucrative
48:59
Speaker 1: for them, but it's also retaining their jobs. And so
49:03
Speaker 1: this if ABS had been implemented, let's say ten years ago,
49:06
Speaker 1: I think there'd be a lot of instances of this
49:08
Speaker 1: because the quality of the umpires had kind of degraded
49:12
Speaker 1: over time, not shockingly, when you had kind of older
49:16
Speaker 1: gentlemen who dare I say, may have been a little
49:19
Speaker 1: bit out of shape trying to judge whether a ninety
49:23
Speaker 1: four mile an hour slider was on the edge of
49:25
Speaker 1: the strikes and or not, who knew their visual acuity
49:28
Speaker 1: was not up to that challenge, or when they had
49:31
Speaker 1: to sprint out to right center field to see if
49:33
Speaker 1: the ball had cleared the wall or had not cleared
49:36
Speaker 1: the wall before it bounced back into the line of play,
49:38
Speaker 1: they weren't necessarily in the physical shape to do it.
49:40
Speaker 1: So I think when you get the call out, and
49:43
Speaker 1: I understand you referenced C. B. Buckner. I'm sure he's
49:46
Speaker 1: trying as hard as he can, but there was a
49:48
Speaker 1: time where the average performance of an umpire would have
49:52
Speaker 1: been under tremendous scrutiny. I think the umpires as a
49:55
Speaker 1: whole are so much better equipped to handle this sort
49:58
Speaker 1: of change. But I do think with this change, as
50:01
Speaker 1: is the case in so many changes, there will be
50:03
Speaker 1: a time frame where we're there'll be some growing pains.
50:08
Speaker 1: I think the umpires will be the first to admit
50:10
Speaker 1: that they're adjusting to a new strike zone, a new system.
50:13
Speaker 1: Let's give it a couple of weeks before we officially
50:15
Speaker 1: judge it. But I hear what you're saying. There are
50:18
Speaker 1: a few a few games that seem to be materially impacted.
50:21
Speaker 1: The Twins playing in Baltimore where Derek Shelton got thrown
50:25
Speaker 1: out after there were two overturned calls in the same
50:28
Speaker 1: at that in a pivotal situation. I think we're just
50:31
Speaker 1: going to see some of that, probably throughout the course
50:33
Speaker 1: of the year, more so in the first, you know,
50:35
Speaker 1: month or two. Let's give the umpires a chance to
50:38
Speaker 1: grow and develop through the system. I assume that they
50:41
Speaker 1: are going to get better and better with each passing month.
50:44
Speaker 4: I was going to ask you about former rosters Dring's
50:47
Speaker 4: guest Derek Shelton, because you know, I was watching the
50:52
Speaker 4: Cubs games over the weekend and I'm like, is this
50:56
Speaker 4: kind of gonna ABS? Is kind of going to ruin
50:59
Speaker 4: manager umpire arguments, which is such a just you know,
51:02
Speaker 4: foundational piece of baseball. But then Derek Shelton said, no,
51:06
Speaker 4: not so fast, because I guess he was arguing a
51:08
Speaker 4: challenge had him come through fast enough, But also that
51:12
Speaker 4: I think it's a good point you bring up about
51:14
Speaker 4: the changing strike zone now, like it's based off of players' heights. Now,
51:21
Speaker 4: can you go into like what the exact change was
51:25
Speaker 4: with the strike zone?
51:26
Speaker 1: So my understanding is that it's it's they take the
51:30
Speaker 1: midpoint of your body, then they take fifty three percent
51:34
Speaker 1: of your height as the top of the zone. Twenty
51:35
Speaker 1: seven percent of your height is the bottom of the zone.
51:38
Speaker 1: And so each player was actually measured in the ABS
51:42
Speaker 1: system during spring training. I think you won't be surprised
51:47
Speaker 1: to hear that some of these guys took this a
51:49
Speaker 1: touch less seriously than others. I heard anecdotes of some
51:53
Speaker 1: guys showing up to this with their shirts off, as
51:55
Speaker 1: if that was a reference point worth noting. And then
51:58
Speaker 1: I understood also there were a lot of pitch who
52:00
Speaker 1: lined up for this thinking for some reason that pitchers
52:02
Speaker 1: still hit. So apparently the pitchers were not required to attend.
52:07
Speaker 1: But it's at your batting stance. Height fifty three percent
52:11
Speaker 1: to twenty seven percent represents the height of the strike
52:14
Speaker 1: zone to the low point of the strike zone, and
52:16
Speaker 1: I think what universally we're hearing from umpires and players
52:19
Speaker 1: alike is this lead is leading to a little bit
52:21
Speaker 1: of a taller strike zone than used to exist. So
52:24
Speaker 1: that's where most of the mistakes are being made, is
52:28
Speaker 1: whether it's a player or it's an umpire kind of
52:30
Speaker 1: more adherent to the previous version of the top of
52:32
Speaker 1: the zone versus where it actually is winding up. And
52:35
Speaker 1: then your commentary in just a little bit about Derek
52:39
Speaker 1: Shelton is a fascinating one because what you see when
52:42
Speaker 1: you watch the NBA play or the NFL or even
52:46
Speaker 1: March Madness right now is head coaches seem to be
52:49
Speaker 1: very critical of officials throughout those events, and very animatedly so.
52:55
Speaker 1: But somehow to know detriment to their staying in the game.
53:00
Speaker 1: You know, occasionally you see a guy get teed up,
53:02
Speaker 1: but in the NFL, you never see a head coach
53:05
Speaker 1: have any repercussions for seemingly berating the line judges the
53:09
Speaker 1: whole game. Well, big league managers have been somewhat neutered
53:12
Speaker 1: over time. They're not allowed to argue balls and strikes anymore.
53:16
Speaker 1: Gone are the days of the epic you know, kicking
53:19
Speaker 1: you know, Earl Weaver or Jim Liamn kicking dirt on
53:22
Speaker 1: an umpire. I happened to be flying the other day
53:27
Speaker 1: to Milwaukee for Opening Day, and on my flight was
53:29
Speaker 1: an umpire who I won't name right now, and I
53:32
Speaker 1: just asked him, you know, how has it changed with
53:34
Speaker 1: your relationships with managers over time? And I said, do
53:37
Speaker 1: you guys actually keep a list of the top ten
53:40
Speaker 1: toughest managers to work with? And he's like, oh, yeah,
53:42
Speaker 1: each of us has that, And he actually named a
53:44
Speaker 1: few names, which was kind of highly comical. So all
53:47
Speaker 1: of the umpires, as much as we think we're scouting them,
53:50
Speaker 1: they're scouting every manager out there to know what types
53:52
Speaker 1: of arguments they tend to have, how best to diffuse
53:55
Speaker 1: them or in some cases probably how best to rile
53:57
Speaker 1: them up and get them out of the games.
53:59
Speaker 4: It's incredibly interesting. I also just have some stats from
54:02
Speaker 4: opening weekend. We had seventy eight batter challenges at a
54:06
Speaker 4: forty two percent success rate. We had ninety two catcher
54:10
Speaker 4: challenges at sixty four percent success rate, and only five
54:15
Speaker 4: pitcher challenges, which I think you predicted last week that
54:18
Speaker 4: you know, pitchers weren't going to be making these calls
54:20
Speaker 4: all too much and they only hit at forty percent.
54:24
Speaker 4: Moving on that, I wanted to get into this NBA
54:28
Speaker 4: tanking dilemma. It's it's kind of been a dark cloud
54:31
Speaker 4: over the league this season, and last week the NBA
54:36
Speaker 4: proposed some new rules to potentially prevent this, some lottery expansion.
54:43
Speaker 4: I think, you know, tanking is definitely easiest in the
54:47
Speaker 4: NBA with just so few players. I think there's more
54:49
Speaker 4: loopholes and more kind of ways you can impact these
54:54
Speaker 4: games compared to the NFL or the MLB. But what
54:58
Speaker 4: do you think if if you were Adam Silver, what
55:01
Speaker 4: would you do to fix tank? I know a lot
55:03
Speaker 4: of people bring up shortening the season, maybe that could help,
55:06
Speaker 4: But do you have a fix to this issue in
55:10
Speaker 4: the NBA.
55:11
Speaker 1: Well, why, I think one thing that is so significant
55:13
Speaker 1: about the NBA relative to the NFL and Major League
55:16
Speaker 1: Baseball is just how important that one individual player can
55:19
Speaker 1: be to the roster. You know, in the NFL, certainly
55:23
Speaker 1: being able to draft a marquee quarterback is significant to
55:26
Speaker 1: your organization. But in Baseball, buy and large, it's a
55:30
Speaker 1: very rare player that singularly changes the fortunes of a franchise.
55:34
Speaker 1: So I think the biggest spotlight has always been on
55:37
Speaker 1: the NBA because the notion that one player can really transform.
55:41
Speaker 1: We'll see what Cooper Flag does for the Dallas Mavericks
55:44
Speaker 1: over time. He's certainly vying for his with his former
55:48
Speaker 1: teammate Kank Nipple for seemingly the Rookie of the Year award,
55:53
Speaker 1: and that's significant, making even more crazy that those two
55:56
Speaker 1: guys together weren't able to win the National Championship last
55:59
Speaker 1: year when they both played duke with additional guys Malachi
56:02
Speaker 1: who I think ended up as a first round draft
56:04
Speaker 1: pick as well in that scenario. So one thing that
56:07
Speaker 1: we talked about in baseball, I wonder how this would
56:09
Speaker 1: be applicable in the NBA. It probably doesn't work in
56:13
Speaker 1: the NFL just because there's not enough games to be played,
56:15
Speaker 1: but in the NBA, potentially hockey, and in baseball this
56:18
Speaker 1: could apply. Is you get to a certain point in
56:21
Speaker 1: the season, and you determine that it's past the point
56:25
Speaker 1: where you kind of have playoff projections. You have your
56:29
Speaker 1: group of teams that are projected to make the playoffs,
56:31
Speaker 1: you have the group that are not projected to make
56:33
Speaker 1: the playoffs, and then rather than rewarding the team that
56:35
Speaker 1: loses the most games from that point forward, it would
56:38
Speaker 1: be the team that wins the most games from that
56:40
Speaker 1: point forward that actually then gets the first pick in
56:42
Speaker 1: the draft.
56:43
Speaker 2: I think the.
56:44
Speaker 1: Flaw on that is some teams then predict well, couldn't
56:48
Speaker 1: you just kind of have a few guys sit out
56:50
Speaker 1: early you don't think you're a playoff contending team, but
56:52
Speaker 1: you think you're a damn good team, and then you
56:54
Speaker 1: go to full strength once that date flips over. So
56:57
Speaker 1: there's always going to be loopholes in the things, and
57:00
Speaker 1: if you wanted to operate in the gray spaces where
57:03
Speaker 1: you could probably take advantage of it. But I do
57:05
Speaker 1: wonder out loud if that'd be a way to keep
57:07
Speaker 1: more teams engaged now. I think the downside of that
57:10
Speaker 1: for fans is that would leave most of those teams
57:12
Speaker 1: disinclined to trade it the trade deadline, which is something
57:15
Speaker 1: that fans do tend to really enjoy. It's something that
57:18
Speaker 1: is very tantamount to the baseball season and excitement and
57:22
Speaker 1: enthusiasm and about you know, late July early August, when
57:25
Speaker 1: you see your team, you know, investing either in the
57:27
Speaker 1: now or in the future. I think you'd see far
57:29
Speaker 1: less of that because those teams that were technically out
57:32
Speaker 1: of it now would be highly motivated to keep those
57:34
Speaker 1: impact players so they could have a sprint to the
57:37
Speaker 1: finish line, so they could viue for that first pick,
57:39
Speaker 1: because they'd be rewarded not for losing games down the stretch,
57:43
Speaker 1: but actually winning them.
57:44
Speaker 4: That's a great idea that I love that we just
57:46
Speaker 4: fixed tanking in the NBA. Let's go last thing. I
57:49
Speaker 4: just wanted to see what stood out to you on
57:53
Speaker 4: opening MLB weekend. Any teams we should be paying attention to.
57:58
Speaker 4: I know, you know, there's always team that start out
58:00
Speaker 4: to a hot start, and you know, the term water
58:05
Speaker 4: finds its level I think rains very true in baseball,
58:10
Speaker 4: but any teams or players we should be paying attention
58:14
Speaker 4: to after the first begin.
58:15
Speaker 1: Well, White, I think you just nailed it right there.
58:18
Speaker 1: You know, it's four games into the season for almost
58:20
Speaker 1: every team at this point. There's no four games stretch
58:23
Speaker 1: during the course in the middle of the season that
58:24
Speaker 1: we'd ever analyze. But let's have a little fun with
58:27
Speaker 1: it because it's the first four games of the season.
58:29
Speaker 1: What jumps out to me is there's only one team
58:33
Speaker 1: that doesn't have both a win and a loss, and
58:35
Speaker 1: that's the Oakland Athletics, who are Sacramento Athletics. I guess
58:38
Speaker 1: I should say unfortunately or zero to four, but that's
58:41
Speaker 1: kind of done worthy. Usually at this time of the year,
58:42
Speaker 1: we still would have a handful of undefeated teams and
58:44
Speaker 1: a handful of teams that are without a win. There's
58:47
Speaker 1: only one right now. It may speak to a little
58:49
Speaker 1: bit more parody than what we expected, at least through
58:51
Speaker 1: four games. Some of the other things that jumped out
58:53
Speaker 1: to me is San Francisco has only scored four runs
58:56
Speaker 1: through four games, which is a paltry sum, but they've
58:59
Speaker 1: also won a game, which is pretty impressive because they
59:02
Speaker 1: scored three runs in one game to win a game,
59:04
Speaker 1: which means they've scored one run in the other three games,
59:06
Speaker 1: which is a little bit challenging. So if you scored
59:09
Speaker 1: one run a game for four games, you certainly wouldn't
59:11
Speaker 1: expect to win any They've won one game during that time. Similarly,
59:16
Speaker 1: the Yankees have only given up three runs in four
59:18
Speaker 1: games and they've actually lost a game, because they lost
59:21
Speaker 1: a game last night to two to one. You won't
59:23
Speaker 1: be surprised to hear that New York actually faced San
59:25
Speaker 1: Francisco early. That's how they gave up so few runs
59:28
Speaker 1: in San Francisco scored so a few runs they played
59:31
Speaker 1: each other. The White Sox, on the other end of
59:33
Speaker 1: the spectrum, have given up thirty three runs in four games.
59:35
Speaker 1: That's eight point twenty five runs per game. Yet the
59:38
Speaker 1: White Socks have actually won a game. So here we
59:41
Speaker 1: have some extreme things going on. There's seven teams as
59:44
Speaker 1: teams that are hitting under two hundred through four games,
59:48
Speaker 1: and you know, just as a point of reference, that's
59:49
Speaker 1: the equivalent to hitting worse than the average pitcher used
59:52
Speaker 1: to hit in the game. There are similarly, five teams
59:55
Speaker 1: that have pitching staffs that are holding their opponents to
59:57
Speaker 1: under two hundred batting average as a complete teams. The
1:00:01
Speaker 1: one that was noteworthy to me is the Padres earned
1:00:03
Speaker 1: both lists of that, so their team is hitting under
1:00:07
Speaker 1: two hundred and they're also holding the other teams to
1:00:10
Speaker 1: under two hundred. And then the other thing why that
1:00:12
Speaker 1: has really jumped out to me, which is fascinating, is
1:00:15
Speaker 1: just the impact early on that we're seeing for some
1:00:17
Speaker 1: rookies so and they're not necessarily household names. Chase the
1:00:21
Speaker 1: latter of the Indian, the Guardians or other I'm sorry,
1:00:24
Speaker 1: has four home runs through four games, which is an
1:00:27
Speaker 1: incredible feat. It's more than twelve teams have accumulated in
1:00:31
Speaker 1: total so far in terms of his four home runs. Similarly,
1:00:34
Speaker 1: Kevin McGonagall of the Detroit Tigers, who is one of
1:00:37
Speaker 1: the premium prospects in the game, has four RBIs, which
1:00:41
Speaker 1: matches the total run output by the San Francisco Giants
1:00:44
Speaker 1: on his own. And then international superstar Munataki Murakami who
1:00:50
Speaker 1: came over from Japan. He's been somebody that we've seen
1:00:53
Speaker 1: on the world stage and back to back World Baseball
1:00:55
Speaker 1: classics who has made a huge impact. So he's a rookie,
1:00:59
Speaker 1: but a rookie kind of a quotes, he joins de
1:01:01
Speaker 1: Lauter is one of two of only fourever rookies to
1:01:06
Speaker 1: start their careers with three games with homers in each
1:01:09
Speaker 1: of those three games. So two guys have done it
1:01:12
Speaker 1: this year. Previously, in the history of baseball, it only
1:01:15
Speaker 1: had been done twice. So those are some things that
1:01:17
Speaker 1: have really jumped out to me as exciting aspects of
1:01:20
Speaker 1: the game, both from a team perspective, but also from
1:01:23
Speaker 1: some individuals, some individual future stars who maybe putting their
1:01:27
Speaker 1: name on the map right now, Guys that we should
1:01:30
Speaker 1: watch throughout the course.
1:01:31
Speaker 2: Of the year.
1:01:31
Speaker 1: We're going to spend a lot of time talking about
1:01:34
Speaker 1: Judge and Otani and maybe kind of the twilight of
1:01:37
Speaker 1: guys like Mike Trout, and we're going to talk about,
1:01:40
Speaker 1: you know, guys like Paul Skins and Trek scoopbl Will.
1:01:44
Speaker 1: Maybe we should also turn o a little bit of
1:01:45
Speaker 1: our attention to some of these excellent rookies. We've got
1:01:48
Speaker 1: a tremendous class coming right now, a great time to
1:01:52
Speaker 1: be a baseball fan, both for the present and the
1:01:54
Speaker 1: future of the sport.
1:01:55
Speaker 4: Yeah, we also had the Nationals outfielder outfielder Joey Weimer
1:02:00
Speaker 4: tied the major League record for most consecutive plate appearances
1:02:03
Speaker 4: to reach base with ten to start the season. I
1:02:06
Speaker 4: thought that was pretty impressive as well.
1:02:09
Speaker 1: And noteworthy because every scouting report on Joey Weimer is
1:02:13
Speaker 1: excellent defender, really likes Shalale not much of an offensive player,
1:02:18
Speaker 1: So here he is shining on the offensive side. Maybe
1:02:20
Speaker 1: he's fine after changing a few organizations. Maybe he has
1:02:24
Speaker 1: found the right home to unlock his bat to go
1:02:27
Speaker 1: with his well above average glove.
1:02:29
Speaker 4: Good stuff. That's all I got for you today.
1:02:31
Speaker 1: Awesome. Well, thanks again to Banook and to all of
1:02:33
Speaker 1: our listeners out there. Please join us this Thursday and
1:02:36
Speaker 1: every Thursday on Rosters to Rinks.